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more. MUSIC MUSIC

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I'm Alan Olga, and this is

0:39

Clear and Vivid, conversations about

0:41

connecting and communicating. MUSIC

0:47

I have made movies in which literally

0:49

a crew, almost like

0:51

the circus, you know,

0:53

there's trucks and RVs and tents, we

0:56

drop into a town. Sometimes

0:58

the town is Evansville, Indiana, or

1:00

sometimes the town is Darmstadt, Germany,

1:02

or sometimes the town is

1:05

Seattle or Baton Rouge. And

1:08

we're there for three months, and

1:11

the town becomes something of our

1:13

own, and everybody recognizes, oh, you're

1:16

with the picture, oh, yeah, yeah, we're

1:18

with the movie, oh, good to have you here. And

1:21

that circus-like atmosphere governs

1:23

the pace of the day, and it

1:26

is exciting, but it's also incredibly challenging.

1:28

There are times where everything works, and

1:30

there are times where absolutely nothing works

1:32

whatsoever. And you have a 10-week, 12-week

1:34

experience that is unlike any other, and

1:38

then it's all over in the wink of an eye, and

1:41

you're gone, and you can hardly remember the names of

1:44

the people that you worked with. That, of

1:46

course, is Tom Hanks. He's making

1:48

a return visit to the show, in which

1:50

I ask him about a whole new side to

1:52

his talent for storytelling. He's

1:54

written a novel, and what a novel

1:56

it is. It's a story that ranges

1:58

over decades. The contracts the

2:01

emotional lives of a crowd of

2:03

people who come together is near

2:05

strangers to engage in the intimate

2:07

experience of making a movie. Stubs

2:09

Book is called the Making of

2:11

another major motion picture masterpiece which

2:13

time describes as a primer on

2:15

the long slog bringing an idea

2:17

from somebody said to a theater

2:19

near you. Tom. Is

2:21

made more than one hundred movie so he sure

2:24

knows the territory. I knew we

2:26

were going to have a phone conversation. Time.

2:30

This is so great to be talking

2:32

with you again for pleasure. our. The

2:34

way we won't cover the same ground

2:36

is that you had not yet publish

2:38

your first novel. I said you

2:40

had finished it ago. And it

2:42

still six me. I still hear the people

2:44

talking and they look like real people to

2:46

me. I see them in motion in the

2:48

settings for thank you. When. You've described

2:50

the characters. He put them in

2:53

action with one another in a

2:55

place. To details very

2:57

valuable to me. Nuts

2:59

method that the number of them but the. The.

3:02

Particularity of them? I mean, you know,

3:05

I know how you know all these details

3:07

about everybody's life. Like. What As

3:10

dishwashers needs to know to do his

3:12

job. And you know

3:14

that Well, I did. I did was

3:16

dishes for one when I was in

3:18

junior college. Ah,

3:21

it's. Rents

3:23

and I went back to earn. I

3:25

had family that had worked in a

3:27

restaurant that happened to be a restaurant

3:29

that my dad worked in when I

3:31

was like seven years old with Marina

3:34

was a castaway less than and Jacqueline

3:36

is. In

3:38

Oakland, California so I learned how

3:40

to wash dishes and at the

3:43

cast away and the job that

3:45

you can pick up, drop off,

3:47

take up anywhere chances are within

3:50

a mile. of were both you

3:52

and i are are sitting right

3:54

now a dishwasher is needed and

3:56

if you know the ins and

3:58

outs of the hobart professional dishwasher

4:01

and how to get the pots and how

4:03

to get the pans and how to do

4:05

all the cutlery and where to stack it

4:07

all up there. You've got a trade that

4:09

can take you around the world.

4:11

You can do that as

4:14

a dishwasher, provided you are not trying

4:16

to work your way up the food

4:18

chain in the restaurant industry. I

4:20

think the guy I replaced at the

4:23

Castaway was moving up to being the

4:25

guy who was chopping all the vegetables

4:27

for the salads and preparing the

4:30

ingredients for the chefs. His ambition was to be

4:32

a chef, I guess. That

4:34

was his entry level of restaurant business

4:36

is one thing and comparing that to

4:38

entry level in show business. It's

4:44

not all that different in that

4:48

I talked to many of folks whose

4:51

job on a movie was to

4:53

solve problems and if

4:55

you're going to rack the focus a little

4:57

bit on that, that's exactly what a dishwasher

4:59

does. A dishwasher

5:02

solve a problem all

5:04

day. I

5:07

had the impression that when you learn

5:09

something about somebody's job, you

5:11

made a note of it and had a

5:13

notebook full of these details that are so

5:15

convincing. Did you do that

5:18

or is it all in your head? You couldn't

5:20

have experienced everything all those people experienced, could you?

5:23

But truly, I think I heard everything

5:25

that is in the book from somebody.

5:28

One of the characters in the book

5:30

is really based on my long time

5:32

makeup man by the name of

5:34

Danny Striepeck. He came

5:36

to me on the last, literally the last day of

5:39

shooting a movie called The Da Vinci Code and he

5:41

said, I want to tell you, kid, this is my

5:43

last go round. I said, what do you

5:45

mean? He said, I'll let you know when I

5:47

live. He called me two weeks later. He said, it's going

5:49

to happen. I'm not just done.

5:51

I'm done done. I said, Danny, you're retiring. That's

5:54

right. I decided to go out On

5:56

the Da Vinci Code. So So long, kid. It's been

5:58

good work. And I ended up. Doing

6:00

a slight profile on him for

6:02

the New York Times style makes

6:04

it is A. Over the years

6:06

he had told me countless little

6:08

anecdotal stories about that. where he

6:10

was seated Elvis Presley's make up

6:13

for five or six Elvis Presley

6:15

movies and he would talk which

6:17

he would talk about how Elvis

6:19

was A It was a great

6:21

guy and he was surrounded by

6:23

all these kooky friends. And he

6:25

was most recently in love with

6:27

an Ann Margaret when they were

6:29

making. Viva. Las Vegas is. it's

6:31

as it were. That

6:35

you did Viva Las Vegas Iii did I

6:37

did arab scare them I died at all

6:40

those horrible are empty and movies and you

6:42

did else. Are you able to eat Physical

6:44

activity was a use that he was an

6:46

Isis so out of that comes. Moment

6:49

after moment of. Or

6:51

experience of of these odd

6:54

little tiny details better magnified

6:56

in their interest because they're

6:58

about movies, movies and I

7:01

saw Daddy Street that figured

7:03

out how to manufacture the

7:06

ah the make ups for

7:08

the first. Planet of

7:10

the Apes. Shared

7:12

an Academy Award that I believe

7:14

with it and not only that

7:17

he figured out how to manufacture

7:19

is the man responsible for Laurence

7:21

Olivier a his nose. In

7:23

Sparta. That

7:26

along with to the the periphery of

7:28

the rest of his life, his marriage

7:30

as his arm he and I were

7:32

about to start working on. That

7:35

thing you do while when his wife was diagnosed

7:37

with a with a terminal illness and he only

7:39

work on attempt to for two days and they

7:42

went away and and he came back when it

7:44

was all over and and life was couple. You

7:48

talk to eat, talk to folks.

7:50

just about how they did the

7:52

job that you are. now sharing

7:54

with them and it ends

7:56

up being this this survey

7:58

of the human condition of

8:01

luck and moments

8:03

of frustration and moments

8:05

of the

8:07

good happens right along with

8:09

the bad. I have made movies

8:12

in which literally a crew, almost

8:14

like the circus, you

8:17

know, there's trucks and RVs and

8:19

tents, we drop into a town.

8:22

Sometimes the town is Evansville, Indiana, or

8:24

sometimes the town is Darmstadt, Germany, or

8:27

sometimes the town is

8:29

Seattle or Baton Rouge or

8:32

Albuquerque. And

8:34

we're there for three months and

8:37

the town becomes something of our

8:39

own and everybody recognizes, oh, you're

8:41

with the picture. Oh, yeah,

8:43

yeah, we're with the movie. Oh, good to have you here.

8:47

And that circus-like atmosphere

8:50

governs the pace of the day and

8:52

it is exciting, but it's also incredibly

8:55

challenging. There are times where everything works

8:57

and there are times where absolutely nothing

8:59

works whatsoever. And you have a

9:02

10-week, 12-week experience that is unlike any other

9:04

and then it's all over in the wink

9:06

of an eye and you're gone and

9:08

you can hardly remember the names of the

9:10

people that you worked with. I

9:13

made a movie about just that, as a matter of

9:15

fact. The movie was about the

9:17

movie company moving into the town and when we

9:19

moved into the town, we

9:22

weren't welcomed by everybody because it was

9:24

driving prices up in the restaurants and

9:28

we were shooting a scene I was

9:31

directing and the actors were in

9:33

the open convertible and a

9:35

woman came by on a bicycle and said, when

9:38

you people leave town, I'm throwing a party. That

9:41

was Sweet Liberty, I'm guessing. I'm going to be

9:43

your IMDb right here. You

9:45

are, I'm going to email you

9:47

every time I remember the name of

9:50

one of my movies. I paid to

9:52

see it, right? You just sit down.

9:54

You wrote it as well. I did, yeah. You

10:01

know, the idea is a book

10:03

is about making a movie is

10:05

certainly what the book is about.

10:07

Put in the process of telling

10:09

that story, you go so much

10:11

deeper into an exploration of a

10:13

number of things that I find

10:16

really interesting and emphasis is what

10:18

I saw. Maybe I saw something

10:20

that you didn't intend. You must

10:22

have been aware and carefully doing

10:24

this idea of examining the way

10:26

the culture reflects on itself in

10:28

three different periods. But in the

10:30

books, Through. These wonderful section

10:32

of. Illustrations where you were there

10:34

is essentially comic books or laugh at novel

10:37

sort of graphic graphic novels. Yeah yeah the

10:39

The First Fled The first comic book is

10:41

from like and forty seven at a place

10:43

in the in, the in the in the

10:46

role because of uncle takes the little boy

10:48

to the local news stand drugstore fountain and

10:50

as he's sitting there and sipping on a

10:52

on a coca his his uncle let him

10:55

buy all the comic books he wants to

10:57

and he buys some of that that work

10:59

out at the time that you know is

11:01

both heroes under fire. And

11:04

it was the stories of World War Two.

11:06

sort of like or writ large. And it

11:08

is the story of a flame thrower that

11:10

is. And for a five year old six

11:12

year old kid to look at this image

11:15

and in the uncle even says he points

11:17

to the flame thrower in the comic book

11:19

and says that's me. Meaning

11:21

like that's that's a job I had in the

11:23

war. And the little boy

11:26

can't get that image of his uncle

11:28

with this apparatus on his, on his

11:30

back. And later on, that same boy

11:32

grows up to be as an artist

11:35

and he's working at an underground comic

11:37

company. and he ends up drawing this

11:39

version of a godlike mythic flame thrower.

11:41

But by way of that, the Vietnam

11:44

War on it is written in Nineteen

11:46

Seventy One and I read those comic

11:48

books and I grew up around at

11:50

the Bay Area and Self and Vietnam

11:53

was assumed. It tore us apart for

11:55

the better part of their five or

11:57

six years and it turns into. Literally

12:00

the his uncle with area Orinda

12:02

a ghost huge goes version of

12:04

a mysterious flame thrower from from

12:06

long ago and in the last

12:08

the last comic book in it

12:10

is the current version. It's literally

12:12

the graphic novel version of the

12:14

movie they just Made in which

12:17

a super heroin and this a

12:19

ghostly flame thrower from the past

12:21

can get together and in first

12:23

they meet cute and and eight

12:25

do a lot of battle with

12:27

each other. I actually had to

12:29

write the screenplay. Of the movie in

12:31

order to I had a do that went

12:33

when did you do that When did you

12:35

write the screenplay I wrote the screenplay when

12:37

I began to write what is called the

12:40

Suit which is he an art is a

12:42

date Day One of filming out of fifty

12:44

five days day to assuming out of fifty

12:46

five days Day fourteen of shooting out of

12:48

fifty five days I realized I had to

12:50

know exactly what I will shoot. I dunno

12:52

what they were shooting had have to stories.

12:54

We had a pay ad have a page

12:57

count. you don't necessarily see that except in

12:59

snippets unless you can. You can read it

13:01

did sound file I I think I

13:03

got the pleasure of understand what you're

13:05

doing before read the screenplay. Ah, I

13:07

just noticed by accident in the back

13:09

of the book and it could scan

13:11

a Qr code and read an entire

13:13

screenplay. That's only reference a little bit

13:15

in the book. And that's when I

13:17

began to realize. Tonight and

13:20

I don't know what you meant isn't up

13:22

with you? I think you're exploring the different

13:24

ways. We. To find a

13:26

hero over the decades. And.

13:29

On our culture. The

13:31

first way was in Nineteen Forty Seven, where

13:33

the fact of being a hero is based

13:35

on you ability to kill the enemy. Then

13:38

in the seventies in the

13:40

more underground anti patriotic point

13:42

of view that if you

13:44

drop bombs on innocent civilians

13:47

is not a good thing.

13:49

Handsome. Final. Says

13:51

this superhero face of

13:53

entertainment which is a

13:55

whole nother approach where

13:57

people with huge hours.

14:00

In battle out these mythical

14:02

questions and I think this

14:04

hero that seems to be

14:06

a huge a supervillain. Needs.

14:09

The. Minister Ring. Or. The

14:11

combining was a superhero who has

14:14

partly because she's a woman, partly

14:16

because of who she is in

14:18

general. As empathy.

14:21

And. If you can combine his empathy, her

14:23

empathy with his. Seriousness.

14:26

And each one. Help the other.

14:28

Cat may be a set of results of

14:30

whom longed for for all of us. This

14:33

goes into something that he has

14:35

driven me ever since I first

14:37

became an actor. that that the

14:40

great down. The great teacher that

14:42

I said and men finding that Vincent

14:44

Dowling command the great Like Shakespeare Festival

14:46

but when I was enters. So this

14:48

is live in my first job and

14:50

not just the first job, it was

14:52

the It was the moment where I

14:54

leaned into it's It Oh there is

14:56

this track of life that I can

14:58

take which will be. Pursuing

15:01

work as an actor, it's not

15:03

just a job and subpoena new

15:06

like a lifestyle and that opportunity

15:08

he said then. We

15:11

had we were doing slate and

15:13

he said something that just me

15:15

on the head which was. All

15:18

the great stories are about loneliness.

15:21

All the great stories about

15:23

flawed people who are lacking.

15:26

A connection to others that

15:28

makes life worth living in

15:30

his hand. that is about

15:32

loneliness and also the next

15:34

summer so was our town.

15:36

Somehow so is so is

15:38

there. Any

15:41

current record store in this that

15:43

that even out today this Biscuit

15:45

brand of the loneliness and those

15:48

two characters are so isolated in

15:50

there in there and pain and

15:52

sense of responsibility and dare I

15:54

say trauma. and

15:57

struggle in their own versions of

15:59

some version some kind of

16:01

PTSD that they can only be healed with

16:04

connection to another. So that's

16:06

a big throw for any

16:08

story, but as a backbone

16:10

of the movie that they

16:12

are making, it also

16:14

I think speaks to an awful lot

16:17

of the

16:19

atmosphere of a making

16:22

of a movie, which

16:24

is belonging to something bigger than

16:27

yourself. One of the great joys of

16:29

being in an ensemble cast or on

16:31

a movie in which you work every

16:33

day is you're with a ton of

16:35

people that come to like

16:37

each other, respect each other, have their

16:39

fallouts, but you're all

16:41

working towards a common purpose

16:43

that is not like real

16:45

life, that is segmented

16:48

into this very, very specific portion.

16:51

One of the reasons we're also

16:53

not sometimes Alan is that we

16:55

live these incredibly vibrant periods of

16:57

weeks in which man, it's just

16:59

every day has a specific challenge

17:01

and a purpose and a

17:03

hard work to it and then it's over. Then

17:06

it's done and the movie either works or it

17:08

does not work. I wonder if

17:10

you're like me is that

17:13

if I don't search out anything that

17:15

I'm in sometimes, but it comes up

17:17

on the grid on HBO or something

17:19

like that, you catch a moment of

17:22

it. I don't

17:24

remember what necessarily is going

17:26

to happen in the movie, but I can

17:28

tell you, oh, on that day I

17:31

had this problem. It was raining. My

17:34

kid had tonsillitis. I

17:36

can tell you all sorts of details

17:39

that went into everything before the camera

17:41

started rolling in the moment after. I

17:45

can tell you what we shot the day, oh, that

17:47

was the second half of the day and the early

17:49

part of the day we shot that and we went

17:51

over under the tree and did all that kind of

17:53

stuff. I've seen that

17:55

Under the same circumstances, just catching a minute

17:57

of something as I'm turning the dial. And

18:00

I see a shot and I say to

18:03

her lean. That. On that

18:05

day that's a Friday was shot dead and

18:07

I'm trying to get out to get to

18:09

the airport to get home to see you

18:11

and I couldn't remember my lines shot after

18:13

shot them going to miss the plane of

18:15

i Don't Do better I could serious as

18:18

okay Steve's on had a horrible flew in

18:20

the scene and you know he's going by

18:22

a written order to was give the guy

18:24

was half an hour real word the car

18:26

drive the car the sell our this is

18:28

it that goes along with it and and

18:30

that you know that that is a detail

18:32

that the goes along with being a family.

18:35

You know us National Assembly. Oh

18:37

here's a vacation that we took

18:39

to Yosemite and nineteen since out

18:41

the piggies you also do. You

18:43

also see. A shot the

18:45

way it's friend. And

18:47

instead of concentrating completely on

18:49

that. You're thinking who's off

18:52

camera Know what are they doing? Well,

18:54

how are they getting the shot Howard

18:56

is this a drone shot Must be.

18:58

Every now and again I will take

19:00

a picture of what the actor sees.

19:02

You know how to. My son and

19:05

others thought I stress or because who

19:07

you who you are and you have

19:09

that on in the way we did,

19:11

you would be looking out at probably

19:13

as many as fifteen people. Who. Are

19:16

all looking at you? There's the focus

19:18

pull is the camera operator. this will

19:20

notice there's the boom operator, there's the

19:23

script supervisor his own is over right

19:25

there Linda's rest the crew and are

19:27

all bear and of their the the

19:29

only reason. There. There is

19:32

because you're there, you're in, you're shooting

19:34

the scene. So yeah, I always think

19:36

about oh my Lord how they grabbed

19:38

this Not to Kill Not Alone hill

19:40

on H B our Turner Classic Movies.

19:42

I watched a couple of minutes

19:44

of Lawrence of Arabia. You. Know.

19:48

I'm watching Lawrence of Arabia and I'm just

19:50

making can you for civil how they get

19:52

the there's there are probably three thousand guys

19:54

and horses and camels and the you how

19:56

long that shot to have to set up

19:59

You know how. long this dolly track

20:01

must be. Do you realize how hot

20:03

it must have been that day when

20:05

all they're getting, all they're

20:07

getting is a bunch of people

20:09

riding on horses and camels from one side of

20:12

the screen to the other. All I can think

20:16

about is the logistics on something like that.

20:18

Then you would also

20:21

then focus on an incredible tight

20:23

tight moment of incredible

20:25

emotion like that. I am more of a

20:27

fan of great film acting

20:29

now, certainly having

20:31

matrices because I know that it is.

20:34

You have to have an awful lot

20:37

of fidelity and ability inside

20:39

yourself in order to sum up the moment

20:44

that you have to go there knowing

20:46

that there is a camera on you

20:48

and everybody's attention is on you and

20:50

someone is examining everything. The other thing that

20:52

gets me about it is similar to that which

20:54

is that because the camera is

20:57

right in your face, spontaneity

20:59

is of paramount importance.

21:03

On the other hand, you

21:05

might be shooting a scene that

21:07

doesn't take place until three-quarters of the way

21:10

through the movie and you've

21:12

only so far shot stuff at the

21:14

beginning of the movie. You have to

21:16

know intellectually where you're going to be

21:18

emotionally at

21:20

that point when the movie is played in

21:22

sequence and yet you while

21:25

you have to be intellectual about it you also

21:27

have to be totally spontaneous to the moment. I

21:30

view it as being Joe DiMaggio in

21:32

center field during the pitch. Where is

21:35

the batter going to swing? Where

21:37

is the ball going to go? Should I be

21:39

moving forward? Should I be leaving forward? Should I

21:41

be leaving backwards? Is it going to go from

21:43

side to side? The word I think is I've

21:46

been the best I've heard describe it is equipoise.

21:48

You have to be in this perfect

21:51

balance between relaxation and

21:54

concentration which is contrary

21:56

to the human condition outside of the only

21:58

other time I think it exists. is

22:00

in the fight or flight

22:02

reflexes of animals. You know,

22:04

am I gonna lean into a fight or am I

22:06

gonna run away from this saber-toothed tiger? Which one? Because

22:09

the third stance that takes over sometimes was

22:12

just freezing in place like the deer in

22:14

the headlights. No, and how many times have

22:16

you done that? I've done that. I've

22:19

been the king of that. When

22:28

we come back from our break, Tom Hanks

22:30

talks about the three things everyone needs if

22:32

they're going to make it in the movies.

22:39

Just a reminder that Clear and Vivid

22:41

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One Meal kit. Welcome to

24:59

your twenties Only three Work recap This

25:01

year you've been to one hundred and

25:03

twenty seven think medians. You spend thirty

25:06

six letters your files and missed a

25:08

deadline. Twenty.

25:10

Twenty Four Ten And so it

25:12

sounds. difference with money.com you can

25:14

work together easily, collaborate and share

25:16

data files. And I say so.

25:19

All work happens in one place

25:21

on the same page. monday.com or

25:23

tests are they enter to learn

25:25

more. This

25:32

is cleared vivid and now back to my

25:34

conversation with Tom Hanks. I.

25:37

Can see your hopes to convey to

25:39

people what it's like making a movie because

25:41

it is such a strange experience and there's

25:44

so many and conflicting views of it

25:46

that if you get and if you walk

25:48

in the said for the first time you

25:50

wonder, Everybody seems to be standing around

25:52

and only one person is doing something but

25:54

everybody else has to be ready to do

25:57

their thing at the very moment that

25:59

he's finished. Read. On occasion

26:01

you know the stories of the making

26:03

other movie and here is what went

26:05

on and that and neck can be

26:07

described as what happened in some of

26:09

the soap opera melodrama that goes into

26:11

it as did not a good in

26:13

the be had behavior of the people

26:15

on the sets yes but in this

26:17

which he I've. Tried

26:22

and adage right What you know you

26:24

know I know dishwashing and I know

26:26

are not make so I said I

26:28

know that the and I I know

26:30

it is like to read comic books.

26:32

But some I I wanted

26:34

to. I would hope that

26:36

anybody who in this. Kinda.

26:39

In a make it to the end

26:41

of the novel will come away with

26:43

with an understanding of first of all

26:45

I think I could do that. But.

26:48

Secondly, I would have

26:50

to be really good at solving problems and

26:52

and al dente when we say over and

26:54

over again he would have to show up

26:56

on time, you've got to know the text

26:58

and you've gotta have an idea. and most

27:01

of the people on the planet earth can

27:03

do to have three of those things. Rate:

27:05

I can show up on time and I

27:07

can have an idea, but I'm no good

27:09

at learning the text or I can learn

27:11

the text and I can have an idea.

27:13

but I'd a don't ask me to be

27:15

on time because yeah, but you have to

27:17

do all three of those things every single.

27:19

Moment of the of the Earth A

27:21

of the production. Otherwise it is also

27:24

the other thing that some people who

27:26

had which is don't bump into the

27:28

furniture files as hit the mark, tell

27:30

the truth and don't bump into the

27:32

furniture that say that that's a that's

27:34

good to. other than sometimes you bump

27:36

into the furniture and it works ok

27:38

and sometimes you know tell the truth

27:41

and of people buy it on the

27:43

stage. I had to play characters waking

27:45

up on the couch and next morning

27:47

in several places and before he was

27:49

thirty. I had broken for five

27:51

toes on the couches. in

27:54

during the play oh that's a that's a

27:56

discussion in the in the hair and makeup

27:59

trailer by the way For me the hair

28:01

and makeup trailer is part

28:03

solo preparation part group therapy

28:07

Part bitch session, you know and also

28:09

report on hey, what did you do last night?

28:12

Well, we had a great karaoke contest in the

28:14

hotel, but you know stuff like that But

28:17

the the when you start saying

28:19

telling stories of the injuries that

28:21

that you yourself have occurred or

28:23

that you've seen Happen, you know

28:25

a bumped head something fell

28:27

fall fell down It rained too much

28:29

than in you and you and

28:33

we were once we were making a movie believe

28:35

it or not this was on a movie called

28:37

Charlie Wilson's war with the

28:39

great Phil Seymour Hoffman and Julia

28:42

Rob, it's a Mike Nichols directed and we were

28:44

we were rained out on

28:46

a set in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco

28:50

high above Marrakesh and

28:54

suddenly an entire movie company

28:56

was Left adrift

28:58

for 36 hours and all

29:00

we could all they could do is sit

29:02

around in a hotel and and tell stories

29:04

about You know what happened on

29:07

various other jobs and oh, even if you

29:09

just have that story Hey,

29:11

what was the longest you've been rained out on

29:13

a load? Oh my god The longest we've been

29:15

rained out and haven't haven't been able to

29:18

work because of something I it

29:20

was so funny because when it's raining cats

29:22

and dogs There's still somebody's job is out

29:24

there to try to get something in the

29:27

can they will cry No, no, we can

29:29

shoot we can shoot we're gonna build a

29:31

tent and we're gonna come by the thing

29:33

We'll come by and get you later on

29:36

and you say okay. All right. I'm I'm in

29:38

I'm in Equipoise I'm in the place of a

29:41

relaxation and concentration. So let me know what you

29:43

need for me and I'll try to make it

29:45

happen You're calling up right

29:47

now so many stories in my own head about

29:49

the same kinds of things We're

29:51

nearly coming to the end of our time, but

29:54

I wanted to ask you something that has

29:56

been in my mind for a while one

29:59

of the characters Caught in the book about

30:01

conversations. He's having. With.

30:04

The director of the movie

30:06

within the Book and he

30:08

says we taught in our

30:10

conversations about the inevitability of

30:12

war. And it

30:14

made me wonder. Because. You've been

30:16

in so many films and produce so many.

30:19

That have to do with war. has

30:21

your. Has your take

30:24

on more changed any over time?

30:26

Is it deepens. Is.

30:28

It Inevitable. What? What do

30:31

you think is the

30:33

last? As a student

30:35

of human nature and

30:37

history, Going. Back.

30:41

Go back to when there was a

30:43

watering hole in two different groups of

30:45

apes. he has ended. Go back all

30:48

the way that to the dawn of

30:50

man some very is going to be

30:52

somebody who is trying to be king

30:54

of all day survey. And

30:58

doesn't mean they're smart. There is always

31:00

going to be a type of. Conflict.

31:05

And it as it has

31:07

just over on. That

31:10

there is always going to be

31:13

a theological differences. There.

31:15

Are always going to be geographical differences

31:17

as I was going to be a

31:19

cultural and no differences in my ways,

31:21

heritage and I whereas I think. I'd

31:25

like to see like to think that

31:27

war is not inevitable. but I'll ask

31:29

you Alan in a in my lifetime

31:32

and sixty seven years old, when has

31:34

they're not been an armed conflict going

31:36

on somewhere on the planet Earth? It's

31:38

I know, I've been around now and

31:40

I'm in a cup cup of a

31:42

date or be eighty eight and I

31:44

have the same. Experience.

31:47

As. you do of looking at the present

31:49

and the past and any any time.

31:52

And. It does seem inevitable. On.

31:54

The other hand, it

31:57

might not be evolutionary reading

31:59

impossible to overcome

32:01

our own aspects

32:04

of our own nature, which may

32:06

lead to our destruction if they get out of

32:08

hand. We've got the tools to kill ourselves if

32:11

we don't shape up a little

32:13

bit. I remember being a kid

32:15

in like 66 or

32:18

whatever, that's what I mean in the 70s,

32:20

and realizing that America was now selling all

32:22

sorts of grain to the then Soviet Union,

32:25

because the Soviet Union was needed

32:27

food. And I remember thinking, hey,

32:31

if that's the case, there's never going to be a

32:33

war between us and the Soviet Union. I

32:36

don't know. They need our wheat, and they need

32:38

our glue, and it made me feel good. And

32:40

now here we are, and there's a war in

32:42

what used to be the Soviet

32:44

Union, and there's any number of armed

32:46

conflicts. Before he passed away, Stephen Ambrose,

32:48

who wrote Band of Brothers and Recess

32:50

and Soldiers, he wrote D-Day.

32:54

He was a great historian. I heard him

32:56

speak, and he said, I

32:58

believe in the next 20 years the world is

33:00

going to embrace democracy in a way that is

33:02

going to alter the history of the world. And

33:06

I thought, that is great. I hope

33:08

that happens. And

33:10

you can look at the paradox that

33:12

goes on historically, that there is a

33:15

huge amount of the world that gets

33:17

along just fine, probably more of the

33:19

world gets along just fine now than

33:22

in the history of humankind, we're

33:24

bound by trade, we're bound by

33:27

the same common desires. We're

33:29

bound by our cultures, we're very used

33:31

to influences from other cultures, both

33:41

film, story, food, fashion,

33:43

all of that. You can look at us and

33:45

think we're much more connected than we've ever been.

33:48

And yet we still have some

33:50

very, very primal differences that come

33:52

out on a battlefield. And

33:55

last, I think you've come down to a great parrot

33:57

document. of

34:00

the human condition that everybody would like to

34:02

get along until they can't. Or

34:05

can kill me until they choose not to get

34:07

along. Yeah, so my,

34:09

in answer to your question to me, I share

34:12

your dismal view that the

34:14

way it looks now, it's

34:17

not, it's going to be inevitable. On

34:20

the other hand, in our

34:22

spare time we can work on making it avoidable.

34:25

And I think we do. I think

34:27

many, many, the vast majority of people

34:29

do. They work on getting

34:31

along. Well,

34:37

I wish we could talk more, but our time is

34:39

running out and we, last

34:41

time we talked I asked you seven quick

34:43

questions. I'm going to ask

34:45

you the same seven quick questions again. God,

34:47

bring them on. What do you

34:50

wish you really understood? Economics.

34:57

That's the same thing you said last time. Oh,

34:59

I don't, the members of Mononites know this

35:02

thing. I think that's the same

35:05

thing. Okay. How

35:07

do you tell someone they have their facts wrong?

35:11

That may be true. Oh. Oh.

35:16

What's the strangest question anyone has ever

35:18

asked you? What's

35:21

it, what's it like? Dot,

35:23

dot, dot. What's

35:25

it like? And I always answer, it's

35:27

like being a dog stuck up in

35:30

a tree on Thursday. What

35:34

anything is like. How do you

35:36

stop a compulsive talker? Oh,

35:39

hey, you know what? I got to, I talked to, excuse me, I have

35:41

to talk to Barbara. Even

35:43

if there is no Barbara. There is no Barbara.

35:47

Oh, you know, can you hold that thought? I have to

35:49

go talk to Barbara for just one second. Let's

35:52

say you're at a dinner table, which next to someone

35:54

you don't know. How

35:57

Do you start up a genuine conversation? I

36:00

say this. I believe I have won the

36:02

lottery. I am sitting next to you and

36:04

I get to find out what makes you

36:06

tick out with it. That's what

36:09

I surf. Pretty good. What

36:12

gives you confidence? Of

36:15

I will I. What did

36:17

the the slow. Acquisition

36:20

of a wisdom and I don't

36:22

I don't And and I mean

36:25

that when I'm when I read

36:27

or see are exposed to something

36:29

and it expands my my understanding

36:31

of my my own short. Last

36:35

question. What book

36:38

changed your life? Oh.

36:41

I'm going to say ah,

36:43

my name is Asher allows

36:46

by Siam talk of like

36:48

and if I have that

36:50

the correct. It

36:53

was a gift rash actual as I did.

36:56

it was the first of the all of

36:58

the time for talks books that that I

37:00

read and what it what it's about an

37:02

orthodox. Jewish

37:05

family, Orthodox Jewish boy growing up in

37:07

New York Go! I target the nineteen

37:09

fifties and I thought I had nothing

37:11

in common with any of these people

37:13

And yet when I read it I

37:15

said this is my family and this

37:17

is me and this is the same

37:20

exact and aspect of mystery of living

37:22

that the that I'm constantly trying to

37:24

solve on my and. That

37:27

kind of into group. understanding.

37:30

Empathy. May be the kind

37:32

of sync that say the so. Let's.

37:35

Let's lean into it. You. Know

37:37

they say. That. One of the

37:40

of ways as you can get better and fussy.

37:42

And you can exercise better.

37:45

empathy is to read novels.

37:48

And. Match. Now the business you're in. And

37:50

I think that you run the right track to

37:53

do that very thing. So. well

37:55

I the at the I the that

37:57

the only time i go to bed

37:59

and curse. The day is when I

38:01

have had not had time to read.

38:03

forces have reached. that's that's the difference

38:05

or in a good day and. Tom

38:09

said so much of a really enjoyed

38:11

talking with you again. Ah well lived.

38:13

Next time it'll be just over a

38:16

cup of coffee and will have none

38:18

of these people with assert his microphones

38:20

and front. And we didn't really talk

38:22

yeah I was so that we haven't

38:24

done to being on Thursday decker. This

38:33

has been clear and vivid and

38:36

least I hope so. My thanks

38:38

to the sponsors despite test and

38:40

to one of you who support

38:42

our show and patriotic you keep

38:44

clear in vivid, up and running

38:46

and after we pay expenses whatever

38:48

is left over goes to the

38:50

All the Center for Communicating Science

38:52

at Stony Brook University. So your

38:54

support is contributing to the better

38:56

communication of science. We're very grateful.

39:00

Tom Hanks is. well Tom Hanks.

39:02

What more is there to say

39:04

except the remind you that is

39:06

new and first novel is the

39:08

making of another major motion picture

39:10

masterpiece and that along with Steven

39:12

Spielberg, he executive produce the World

39:14

War Two drama. Masters. Of

39:16

the air. Is now streaming

39:18

on Prime Video. This

39:21

episode was edited in produced

39:23

by our executive producer Graham

39:25

Said with help from our

39:27

associate producer Gene who may

39:29

or publicist is Sarah Hill

39:31

a researcher is Elizabeth. though

39:33

Haney and the sound engineers

39:35

Eric have won. The music

39:37

is courtesy of the Stephen

39:39

Curry trio. Next.

39:50

In a series of conversations I talk with

39:52

another return and guess who is also written

39:54

a new book? Since the last time we

39:56

chatted. It's Robert supposed keep.

39:59

The. book is called determined. And

40:02

in it, Robert sets out to convince

40:04

you, and in our conversation, convince

40:06

me, that free will is

40:08

an illusion. I recognize I'm

40:10

kind of out in the lunatic fringe

40:13

in believing that there's no free will at

40:15

all. So as long as I

40:17

convince people there's less of it, I'm

40:20

good, especially less of it when

40:22

they're thinking about sort of every

40:25

major important moment in their lives

40:27

and how they judge people. But

40:30

yeah, I'll settle for getting

40:32

people halfway there. Find

40:34

out if I am halfway there and wondering

40:36

how free my will is when I talk

40:38

with Robert Sapolsky next time

40:40

on Clear and Vivid. For

40:43

more details about Clear and Vivid and to

40:45

sign up for my newsletter, please

40:47

visit alanalda.com. And

40:50

you can also find us on Facebook

40:52

and Instagram at Clear and Vivid. Thanks

40:55

for listening. Bye bye. Radio

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41:41

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41:49

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