4:00

And a lot of us, we knew what

4:02

the technology could be, but we

4:04

didn't have an idea about the possibilities, right?

4:07

So in five years from now, we're dealing

4:09

with a lot of merging technologies in Red

4:11

Hat and other companies and other

4:14

sectors around the technology space. And we have

4:16

an idea because we have so

4:18

much burgeoning technology

4:21

now, but we have no idea

4:23

what it's going to look like in five years. And

4:25

that's the interesting part of it. How

4:28

do you decide where to place

4:30

your bets? So less

4:33

Nostradamus, more Magellan is what I'm like

4:36

picking up from it. I

4:38

hear that. Yeah, I definitely hear that. Yeah,

4:40

the other example that he gave in our

4:42

conversation was, you know,

4:45

back in the mid 2000s or whatever, no one really

4:48

knew anything about the smartphone or what it was

4:50

going to be or what it was going to

4:52

do. And a lot of early adopters bought

4:54

it just because it was the cool new thing, right?

4:57

And then you couldn't have

4:59

predicted the impact that it would have

5:01

on our society and the rise of apps and

5:03

social media and all the different things

5:05

that arose out of this new

5:08

invention and how that changed the tech industry. And look

5:10

at us now. Yeah, look

5:12

at us now. Now,

5:15

even when he makes sure

5:18

that customers understand his role more of a

5:20

cartographer rather than a fortune teller, a lot

5:23

of them, you know, they hear him as a CTO and they

5:26

still expect a little bit too much

5:28

from him. All

5:30

they expect me to know is everything that's

5:32

in our portfolio, all

5:34

the features, the roadmaps, the dates

5:36

for deliverables, the commercial pricing models,

5:39

et cetera. Everything, if

5:41

you take a look at our portfolio,

5:43

there are white spaces where we might

5:46

work with partners or just have no

5:48

great solution. So there's

5:50

everything that's in our portfolio, then it's everything

5:52

that's not in our portfolio. And

5:55

then it's all the emerging new ideas that aren't necessarily

5:57

well mapped to. either

6:00

of those. That's all. It's

6:02

essentially everything. And it's a

6:05

completely unrealistic expectation that any

6:07

single person knows that

6:09

much, because they also assume

6:11

I'll know it down to a level

6:13

of detail of lines of code, you

6:15

know, implementation details. And I found that

6:18

frustrating and even overwhelming at

6:20

times. Hmm. Wow.

6:23

Okay. So he

6:25

doesn't know all those things? Oh my gosh.

6:28

I just love how honest he was in

6:31

that response, because I feel like a

6:33

lot of people in the tech industry, they'll just put

6:36

up this front of knowing everything.

6:38

Everything. And, you know, trying to get that

6:40

and use that in order to advance their

6:42

own careers and everything. And

6:44

Chris here just tells us how impossible

6:47

that is and how impossible that makes

6:49

his job. And I would,

6:52

you know, down the line, lead for disappointment

6:54

for everyone. And it's just so

6:57

refreshing to be able to hear that.

6:59

It really is. For me,

7:01

it's comforting, because

7:03

then I don't feel the pressure to know

7:05

everything about my job. The wild thing

7:07

about this episode for me was that

7:10

I had a kid last year,

7:12

late last year. He did. And

7:15

I was on parental leave when

7:17

this episode came out. So I

7:19

had no idea what the three

7:21

of you were up to. And

7:25

suddenly on my phone,

7:27

this new episode of compiler comes

7:30

out. Right. And

7:36

I just got to listen to it and

7:38

enjoy it. And I learned so

7:40

much from all three of you

7:42

and Chris. Like it was

7:44

just such a different experience than I usually

7:47

have with the show, because I'm usually in

7:49

here like looking at scripts and recording with

7:51

all of you and like talking through like

7:53

episode ideas and stuff. And like it was

7:55

just it was really nice to have an

7:57

outside perspective on this one. Nice. I

8:02

want to introduce one of my

8:04

picks now. We just

8:06

talked about Chris Wright talking about being

8:08

that single point person, that person who's

8:11

like a living document, who knows everything,

8:13

right? Being that single

8:15

point person can be a lot. But

8:17

for another person who is new to

8:20

the company, who is new

8:22

to the work in general, finding that

8:24

point person is invaluable. On

8:27

our first episode on legacy technology,

8:29

Jessica Cherry told us about a

8:31

guy named Paul and

8:34

how important it is to pass

8:36

on living history. Okay,

8:39

so you get this box. What

8:42

do you do with it? How

8:45

do you... You want to log

8:47

into it and see what's on it. What

8:50

else are you supposed to do? Hopefully

8:52

they still have the credentials. Usually they do.

8:54

Sticky note taped to the side of the server.

8:57

Because again, no one knows what it does. So you

8:59

have to log into it and see. You have to

9:01

get the lay of the land. You

9:04

have to understand exactly what... How do you do that though? You

9:07

click around. Now

9:09

we can... We Google, we

9:11

figure out, oh, what's the software called? Well, what

9:13

does it do? Or we

9:16

look at the network traffic. Well, where is

9:18

it going? Who's accessing it? Check

9:21

the logs. What's happening on here? You

9:23

have to get an idea of what

9:26

other things are installed, if there's any

9:28

services that depend on one another, how

9:30

it all works. And you just

9:32

try to make a map of what this thing

9:34

is doing and understand who its stakeholders

9:37

are. Maybe you go talk to

9:39

them. Maybe they have some idea. You

9:42

have to start somewhere. So the first thing you do

9:44

is you log in. That

9:47

can't be the only thing though, right, Johan? Yeah.

9:50

If you're really, really lucky, you have

9:53

a Paul. Paul

9:57

is your single point of failure. Paul

10:00

knows everything. If Paul gets run over

10:02

by a bus, you have a problem.

10:05

I'm gonna call the name out as

10:07

Paul because I had a Paul, right?

10:09

You become friends with Paul because Paul knows

10:11

everything and that makes your job a lot easier

10:14

to hang out and be like, dude, can I

10:16

just write notes and hang out with you for like

10:18

15 minutes, please? I've known a

10:20

Paul, I have been a Paul, so.

10:22

Right. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

10:25

I have a Paul in my life right now, too. They're

10:28

invaluable. Don't let anything

10:30

happen to them because, yeah,

10:33

you wouldn't know what to do. If my

10:35

Paul ever leaves, we're done for.

10:38

Like, we're just done for. Everybody

10:41

should have a Paul. Yeah,

10:43

hopefully, in the best case scenario, you

10:45

have a Paul who will teach you

10:47

about the black box and at

10:50

some point down the line, you'll teach

10:52

someone and they'll teach the next person.

10:55

It keeps the system alive and running and

10:57

the business operating, but you're still kind

10:59

of stuck with that hit-bar-bass problem. So

11:04

what do you do when you don't have that unbroken

11:06

chain of knowledge to pass on the sacred scrolls? Jessica

11:10

has found that she can figure things

11:12

out, much like Angela was just describing,

11:14

though it'll probably take a bit more

11:16

time and be much less pleasant. Sometimes

11:19

I just wander around and look at stuff. It's

11:22

good to have the general interest of what's

11:24

going on here. That has always been a

11:26

little bit of my life in general, where

11:28

I'm all like, I wonder what happens if

11:30

I touch this. And my mom

11:32

will tell you, like, this poor girl just will

11:35

fall into a lake to see if it's lost.

11:37

And I am that person where I'm

11:39

like, oh no, I blew it up.

11:42

And then like, have to, we just

11:44

make, my buddy nicknamed the Armageddon

11:46

for this very reason. I will blow stuff up

11:48

and be like, I'll figure it out, hold on,

11:50

I'll bring it back. And that kind of skill

11:52

set is useful. Her

11:56

nickname is Armageddon. Okay, yeah, she's

11:58

fun at parties. I'm sure she

12:01

is a very fun person when

12:03

we first started working on legacies

12:05

Jessica Cherry was one of the people that

12:08

someone else actually recommended I talked to

12:10

her about the show because she had

12:12

so many interesting stories and insights and and

12:15

so many things to share and I

12:17

I got to talk to her but

12:19

I didn't actually get to do her

12:21

interview because I think I was sick

12:24

and I I've never in

12:26

my life or at least never never

12:29

in the history of the show been so so

12:32

sad to have missed out on interviewing

12:34

someone for the show like I Really

12:38

really like Jessica Cherry. I

12:40

mean you just hear it in her voice like she's

12:42

she's she's just a very

12:44

knowledgeable person, but she's also a

12:46

person who's like very practical very

12:49

down-to-earth and very just a Person

12:52

who you want to talk to and you want to hang out

12:54

with I'm so enamored of her

12:56

and I've never been So

12:58

disappointed in my own immune system Not

13:01

have been able to talk to her and get

13:03

and actually do her interview So that's why I

13:05

want to pick this it was a lot

13:07

of fun You

13:14

should have said it sucked it was a terrible

13:16

interview Don't make her feel

13:18

bad already. I wouldn't do a guest in like

13:20

that. That's that there's no evidence amazing Yes,

13:23

you know I made a that the

13:25

the one the one big thing is

13:27

that and this happens For

13:30

most of our episodes is we have these

13:32

really great really long

13:34

really insightful conversations Yeah, yeah

13:36

guests and so little

13:38

of it makes it into each episode. Yeah,

13:40

this is really just like a little cherry

13:42

on top of the Jessica

13:46

chair There you go. I've

13:48

got it breath sticking up. I

13:51

love it. This clip I think also

13:53

really encapsulates Angela

13:56

and I's relationship, which is

13:58

basically Brent S. They

14:00

had really dumb question: How do you know

14:02

what's in the box at an age where

14:04

they like, though, got ya log into the

14:06

box debate? Weeks

14:09

I stats system practical side is

14:11

me even as a month like you

14:13

know. You notice know you

14:15

have to look around south but

14:18

if you if you've been in

14:20

the Jessica, Cherry seas or the

14:22

policies. Are the Angeles she is? you

14:24

would know that already. and I'm like I'm

14:26

just like super risk averse to some like

14:28

Under the Box of I certainly am. I

14:31

shouldn't be. I'm not. I'm not certain that

14:33

box of Nagorno them up the phone know

14:35

I'm well in his home is. Coming

14:39

up after the Bring why

14:42

titles matter when pitching and

14:44

presenting at its head conference

14:46

and the One Word technologies

14:49

used to both communicate needs

14:51

and respect others' boundaries. State

14:54

him to. Remember

14:57

that new project your manager mentioned? Now

14:59

it's your projects and it comes with

15:01

a new cloud and language you don't

15:03

even know. So you start researching and

15:06

you clicks and you watch and you

15:08

click. and you watch and before you

15:10

know what you have an actual Python

15:12

and new job and no way to

15:14

feed said python or you can skip

15:16

or that would read has multi cloud

15:19

support. The where you work doesn't have

15:21

to change just because you're clouds to

15:23

find out how at Red hat.com/options. To

15:32

introduce this is one of my

15:34

texts I want to introduce Ah

15:37

Francisco to see or reintroduce Francis.

15:39

It is here to eyeless as. He

15:41

spoke with us for one of

15:43

our summer series episodes on Tech

15:45

Conferences Lit Love this one! Yeah,

15:48

me too! This is my favorite! yeah we

15:50

really got a lot of positive responses about

15:52

this episode to killer and then a kind

15:54

of keep it a secret as to why

15:56

take that until after and will let you

15:58

all kind of listen it, kind of

16:00

relive it, let our listeners kind of hear it,

16:03

and then I will come in and say exactly

16:05

why I picked this clip. But let's

16:09

listen in on Francisco talking

16:11

about abstracts and also

16:14

how to write them and what

16:16

are some things that are like crucial to have

16:18

in an abstract. minutes of their time.

16:21

So the abstract job is to convince

16:23

people that they

16:25

should absolutely listen to your talk.

16:28

Not all the abstract will be successful,

16:31

you will get some of them accepted,

16:33

you will get some of them rejected.

16:35

But the main thing is that if you

16:37

don't write any abstract, there are

16:39

no chances to go and speak in public. So

16:43

I started writing about how

16:45

you can build what I

16:48

think is a successful abstract or

16:50

something that is more likely to

16:52

be accepted at conferences. So

16:54

let's talk about that for a bit. Both here and

16:57

in his blog, he says that there's no foolproof

17:00

formula for writing an

17:02

abstract that is going

17:04

to guarantee success, right?

17:07

Even he has dealt with

17:09

rejection in that regard. Oh,

17:12

I'm sure. Well, one, I can't wait

17:14

to read the blog post, because I'm

17:16

really interested in what he thinks about that. And

17:18

the other thing is rejection is a part

17:21

of the game. Think about it. If a

17:23

conference has 60 sessions, and 700 submissions are

17:28

submitted. That's a lot of rejection.

17:31

But you know, but you really

17:33

can't take it personally, I think,

17:36

having that mindset, like it's almost like a

17:38

numbers game, it's a lottery, you just have

17:40

to do your best to like put your

17:42

best foot forward. And maybe you'll be at

17:44

the top of the heat. But you're

17:46

right, you have to deal with it.

17:48

I think everyone who's ever presented has had

17:51

to deal with some sort of rejection like that.

17:54

Yeah, the abstract is a very strange

17:57

Genre, you have to do. Very

18:00

little space some and

18:02

I think sometimes we

18:05

wyatt formulas, sometimes we

18:07

wide if I just

18:09

do. X. Y and

18:11

Z Then it will be a

18:13

great abstract. That's. What

18:15

we want. but that's just not

18:18

reality because communication is so much

18:20

more of an art. He a

18:22

how administration's. I

18:25

do get into the finer points that

18:27

it has. There are some things here

18:29

and most of them will surprise anyone

18:31

here, but they're all good things to.

18:33

Remember in. The.

18:41

Please keep it simple and clear.

18:44

Ain't people know what they're getting into

18:46

when they read the title? ah a

18:48

funny title does show off your personal

18:51

style that he said also and of

18:53

be careful to demonstrate what the attendee

18:55

will learn from this as and you

18:57

always want to kind of make that

19:00

the emphasis and also obviously it goes

19:02

that saying ah every event has their

19:04

own guidelines. Please pay attention. To those

19:07

islam if you think about how

19:09

the audience is going to encounter

19:11

that title yet really important so

19:14

context matters here in d it's

19:16

going to be on a conference

19:18

website that going to be on

19:21

the conference out. if they have

19:23

one, it will be Perhaps if

19:26

it's a smaller conference like in

19:28

a booklet in own Ends people

19:30

are going to be scrolling can

19:33

scroll against crawling through so many

19:35

titles. It's almost like a sea

19:37

of titles in some ways. so he

19:39

is having a something to remember. It

19:42

is an idol way. Yeah,

19:44

as if reduce a tidal

19:46

wave far as. how

19:50

ah another really great thing for

19:52

number and i'm glad sub brand

19:54

is ah the digital aspect of

19:56

adama some additional perspective because there's

19:58

so many different places and areas

20:00

where the title of your abstract

20:02

can appear, it may

20:04

appear truncated. So you have to kind of keep

20:06

that in mind, kind of like a little like

20:08

UX that you're keeping in mind like where, you

20:10

know, if this person is looking on it on

20:12

a mobile phone, is my title going to be

20:14

fully read or is it going to be truncated

20:17

or cut short? So that is something

20:19

to keep in mind. Simple

20:21

and clear. If you have a

20:23

really long lofty title, something

20:26

may get lost in translation. You just think

20:28

about it. If you're in the middle of

20:30

conference season and I'm looking at conferences and

20:33

I'm trying to figure out, well, where will

20:35

I spend my time? And again,

20:37

if it's not grabbing you, if

20:39

it's not in your wheelhouse, if

20:43

it's not clear and

20:45

it just, there's so many, there's so

20:47

many things that can come into play

20:49

where, wow, this won't catch someone's attention.

20:54

All of these things are true and

20:57

just because, for all of our listeners,

20:59

just because your abstract

21:01

is not accepted doesn't

21:04

mean it's not great. It's

21:06

just not that particular fit. And

21:08

Johan mentioned this, we've been having little

21:11

conversations about submitting abstracts

21:13

where it might not

21:15

just be a fit for this

21:17

particular conference, but it

21:19

would fit amazing somewhere else. So

21:22

you might have to take your show on the road. Who knows?

21:24

All that work you've put together in writing

21:27

the abstract, putting the title together and

21:30

you've taken the work to also make the presentation,

21:32

that doesn't necessarily need to go to waste. Exactly.

21:36

So does anybody want to hazard a guess

21:38

as to why I picked this? Yes. I

21:41

do know that you recently spoke

21:43

at a conference. I did.

21:45

I did. Oh. Yes.

21:48

And the conference was wonderful. I

21:50

learned a lot. My

21:54

talk, when it came to be my talk, my talk

21:56

was in the afternoon. Talk

21:58

was great. put it together really

22:00

well. Abstract was

22:04

pretty good. And

22:06

this is the part where if we have, if

22:08

an audio editor could go through and do

22:10

like the vroododododo, where I'm saying, oh, the title

22:13

needs to be like, you know, it needs to

22:15

be optimized, it needs to be done really

22:17

well to catch people's attention, you

22:19

can go back to vroodododo, current day, present

22:21

day. What did you do, Kim, with your

22:23

title? Uh-oh. I

22:26

did not put a lot of energy

22:28

into my title. What? I didn't make

22:30

it very clear. And

22:33

I paid for it because of

22:35

the interest in my talk was

22:37

not as much as I thought

22:39

it would be. You know, it was already a time

22:41

of the day where people were very kind of like

22:43

tired and winding down. And then on top of that,

22:45

it wasn't very clear as to what my talk was

22:47

going to be about from the title itself. So I

22:49

paid for that. I worked

22:51

on this episode and I said in

22:54

my voice that titles are important and

22:56

I didn't follow my own advice. So

22:59

that is why I am picking this

23:01

as one of my best moments because it's

23:04

something that I didn't follow it and

23:06

it came back to haunt me. That's

23:08

why I wanted to talk about it. Okay,

23:11

listeners, don't be Kim. Don't be like me.

23:13

Make sure that your title is put together,

23:15

have your friends read it, have other people

23:17

read it. Don't be like me. Don't

23:19

do what I did. Definitely,

23:22

you know, prepare and do your

23:24

best. Oh, well,

23:26

I think we've all learned a little

23:28

bit from this episode. I mean, I

23:30

know I did so much so that

23:32

I submitted to a conference

23:36

just recently. Do you know the results yet?

23:38

Yeah, no, not yet. I have plenty

23:40

of time to find out if

23:43

they've accepted it. But this episode,

23:45

I put a link to it in my

23:48

slide deck. So other folks could know, you

23:50

know, Francisco's great

23:52

ideas and all of the great

23:54

feedback that we gave about making

23:57

a good abstract. So hopefully it

23:59

goes far. and a lot of folks

24:01

can learn from it. So I'm

24:03

happy no matter what. Did

24:06

Angela's talk get accepted? Find out. I

24:08

took us out on social media on

24:11

Instagram. I'm actually late for it. Check

24:13

into 2024. One

24:17

thing I'd like to mention here that

24:19

I don't know that we actually covered

24:21

in the episode is that there can

24:23

be a lot of time between when

24:25

you submit the abstract and when it

24:27

actually gets accepted. It can be months.

24:29

Tell them, Johan. Also a lot can

24:32

change in those fun fields. We know

24:34

that. Yeah. So I know it

24:36

can be difficult to wait that long and to

24:38

have that anticipation of like, oh, did I

24:40

get accepted or not? Sometimes

24:42

that's just the nature of the game, right? Because

24:44

they have so many abstracts to get through

24:46

and make their decisions and weigh

24:49

one thing against another. It can be a really

24:51

long process. If you do submit, you know,

24:54

buckle up. Know that it's going to be a

24:56

long haul for at least for the very big

24:58

conference. Yeah. This has happened to me before where

25:00

it's like, I'll forget that I

25:02

submitted an abstract to be an L. And

25:05

now you got to do the work.

25:08

I remember and then I'm like, oh,

25:10

I got to put together a presentation

25:12

now. Oh my God. You know, it's

25:14

also happened to me where I'm like,

25:17

I'm a different person like six months later

25:19

or whatever, you know. How about that? The

25:21

thing that I was really excited about six

25:23

months ago when I, you know, wrote this

25:25

abstract, like I've already moved on, you know,

25:27

like I'm on to some other new like

25:29

topic or thing that I'm really excited about

25:31

and I got to dig back into like,

25:34

oh, what did I even write? The up

25:37

side. So I get what you're

25:39

saying. We could have moved on, want to

25:42

talk about and learn other new

25:44

things. But for someone submitting to

25:46

a conference that maybe they

25:48

want to talk about something that's sort of like

25:50

a stretch goal. Well, now you've

25:53

given yourself this really nice cushion

25:55

to kind of master said topic.

25:58

And practice it and. of

28:00

hardware that FPGA card that's like $20,000,

28:03

sometimes it's okay to do things by hand. Now

28:06

another way to minimize things going wrong

28:08

is to keep the scripts simple and

28:10

have them do one single

28:12

job. And that's not always as

28:14

easy as it seems because it can be tempting

28:17

to add functionality to a script. And there can

28:19

also be pressure from other teams to add functions

28:21

as well. Now over the years

28:23

and over his career, Jose has had to

28:26

learn an important skill. I learned how to

28:28

say no. So it's like, can you add

28:30

this feature to put this data into the

28:32

database? No. Can you add

28:34

this feature to launch a Docker container?

28:37

No. What we can

28:40

do, we can do this, but you don't need to

28:42

change the tool. Keep the tool simple and anything that

28:44

you want to put on top of that, we can do

28:46

it. All right. Let's all say it together. No. No.

28:48

No. No, it's

28:51

a complete sentence. It gets

28:53

your point across and

28:55

it is okay to lead with

28:57

no because not every request that

29:00

you get requires your

29:02

attention or not your immediate attention.

29:04

So it is okay to

29:07

say no, learn how to

29:09

say no and be comfortable in it because it

29:11

may save you in the long run because you

29:13

can always come back and say yes. It's

29:15

hard to come back from saying yes

29:17

to a no. So think

29:20

about that. Okay. If you start with that

29:22

simple script and you start adding things to

29:24

it, it's harder to remove those features than

29:26

it is to add them later on. Yeah,

29:28

that's a great point. So we're talking

29:30

about automation and there's this famous automation

29:33

instructor. And one of the

29:35

words, this phrase he always

29:37

says is, keep it simple,

29:40

complexity kills productivity. And

29:42

I believe that wholeheartedly.

29:45

You want to do things

29:47

in modular, small, little piecemeal

29:49

things. You don't want

29:51

to go messing up a whole lot

29:53

at once because it's really harder to

29:55

undo something that is complex and it's

29:58

really harder for someone else to come back. behind

30:00

you and understand what you did

30:02

when it's so complex. So yeah,

30:05

I'm all for putting the brakes

30:08

on. Well, it

30:10

sounds like there's a lot of

30:12

benefit to simplicity here, right? I think that

30:14

there, you know, it's not, it's

30:17

not because you don't want to sort of, it's not that

30:19

you're lazy and don't want to do more work, right?

30:22

It's because it has all these like

30:24

really great effects. Yeah, and keeping it

30:27

simple makes it easier for the thing

30:29

to just work and just to keep

30:31

working. And, you know, you're minimizing the

30:33

surface area for problems to occur at

30:35

an hour later on. Saying no is

30:37

really great for keeping it simple. And

30:40

those simple scripts, well, they can

30:42

last a lot longer than you might imagine.

30:45

You will surprise me. I've seen pieces of

30:47

code that are like 20 years old and

30:49

they're still kicking, very especially. Oh my God,

30:51

these guys, I'm telling you, if

30:54

there is a catastrophe, like an asteroid hits the

30:56

air or something like that, you will see the

30:58

roaches and the pearles clips taking over. Probably

31:02

those will be the only two things that will survive

31:04

because they're so resilient. That

31:06

was a perfect visual. Pearl

31:08

will never die. Neither

31:11

will cockroaches. Like that has

31:13

already been established. How

31:15

funny is that? That's great. I love

31:17

it. I love talking to you. I

31:19

love that clip. I had forgotten about the

31:21

roaches. This was so funny. Pearl

31:24

groups. Oh,

31:27

I love it. What a fun episode.

31:30

Yes. I definitely love that

31:32

episode. I wasn't surprised at all when you hadn't chosen. Oh,

31:34

you picked a good one. This was

31:36

one definitely that I'm glad you

31:39

put it in the end of year because

31:41

it has all the

31:43

things. It has all the elements of

31:45

a great story and it was funny

31:47

and our guest was so cool. And

31:50

he has a slogan, no,

31:52

like you can't love it. Just

31:54

say no. We should all be

31:56

like Jose. This is another one of

31:59

those where I'm intense. I'm honestly jealous

32:01

of you, Johan and Kim, that you

32:03

get to talk to these

32:05

guests. All the people. A little like

32:07

behind the scenes. Like Angela and I,

32:09

we don't do any of these interviews.

32:11

That's right. We don't even hear

32:13

any of the guest tapes before we get

32:15

into the studio. And

32:18

Kim and Johan like go have all

32:20

these really fascinating conversations. And then Angela

32:22

and I were hearing it for the

32:24

first time with all of you

32:26

listeners, you know? I'm like, I'm

32:29

realizing again and again, and listening

32:31

to all these episodes, that like, you might

32:33

have the best job ever because you get

32:36

to go like just talk to these like

32:38

really smart, wonderful people.

32:40

You got to interview this guy. Twice.

32:44

Twice. Yeah. And

32:46

now there's that. He was kind enough to come

32:48

back. Yeah. What was the original episode that

32:51

he was in, Johan? It was for reroll, but I don't

32:53

remember which one it was. It was the Sis

32:55

Admin episode. It was the Sis Admin episode. Oh, that's

32:57

right. Okay. I

33:00

remember that. It's been in the script, I think.

33:02

That's right. Yep. So

33:06

that was the last of the picks from this

33:08

year. What do we think? I

33:11

don't know how you could pick just four, but

33:13

you did a great job narrowing it down. Did

33:16

you go back and listen to a lot of tape? That

33:18

had to be hard. We had some

33:20

really good episodes this year. Yeah.

33:23

I mean, all of our guests, and if you've

33:25

ever been a guest of compiler and you're listening

33:28

first of all, thank you so much for giving

33:30

us your time, your energy, sharing your

33:33

stories, your insights with us. It

33:35

really means a lot, not just for us being

33:38

able to do this job that we love, but

33:41

also it teaches us. Johan and I

33:43

learn a lot from these conversations that

33:45

we then go forward into our own

33:47

lives and our own working lives and

33:49

our own relationships. We implement

33:51

the things that we learn, and we're

33:54

constantly talking to these, like Brent

33:56

said, really smart people. And

33:58

it's just, it's irresistible. to like

34:00

kind of follow their advice and their insights

34:02

because they're just so strong and they're so

34:05

grounded and unless you're writing a title for Yes,

34:14

yes, yes lessons learned are powerful

34:16

even lessons learned through failure, right so

34:19

You know, but yeah, I like

34:22

that. It's just great having I did

34:24

go through a few episodes to kind of

34:26

pick the ones that I Chose

34:29

I feel like Johan I feel like you

34:31

were like when I saw the ones that

34:34

you picked I was not surprised at all

34:36

Like I feel like that you definitely I

34:38

could see that those two were like your favorite

34:40

picks from the year Yeah,

34:43

my process I guess was a little bit different

34:45

I didn't listen to all of the

34:47

episodes we went through this year But I did go through

34:49

them one by one and kind of just

34:51

remembered the really Pointy-eight moments

34:53

that stuck out to me and

34:55

I was like, oh, yeah These are the two that

34:58

on top of all the others Are

35:00

the ones that I really want to revisit because

35:02

they're the ones that kind of spoke

35:04

to me the most Yeah, I should

35:07

start a compiler journal Where

35:09

next year when we circle back

35:12

and someone says Oh Angela Which

35:15

episodes do you want to you know do our

35:17

year in review? Well, let me just pull this

35:19

up and Dear journal, dear

35:21

diary exactly. I just

35:24

I love compiler and you you all do such a

35:26

great job with these

35:28

topics and these guests and You

35:31

make it what it is And I know

35:33

folks have a great time listening because I

35:36

hear back from people that tell me just

35:38

how much they enjoy this podcast

35:43

Well, do we want to do we want to sign

35:45

off yeah for the holidays Wherever

35:48

you are in the world. I hope

35:50

that you are well and that

35:52

you are safe and that You

35:56

Have a great time doing whatever it

35:58

is that you love. Hopefully. Not

36:00

working. And in the new Year,

36:03

you might not here much for me for a.

36:06

Iron off. Moving.

36:09

To Europe and I'm also going

36:11

to be working on some other

36:13

projects with. This. Tier the is

36:16

more to come there. Yes. Thank

36:20

you so much for listening! Thank you

36:22

for an amazing Twenty Twenty Three! Let

36:24

us know what you thought about this

36:26

episode. All of our episodes. We would

36:29

love to hear it. You can hit

36:31

us up on social media at Red

36:33

Hat everywhere using the hashtag come on.

36:37

You so much use one! Amazing!

36:39

To. From. Today's

36:49

episode was produced by Kim

36:51

Long, Johan Philippine and Caroline.

36:55

A big thank you Soo what

36:57

else would you Thank you for

36:59

supporting the show out this year

37:01

as a. Toy

37:04

allotment is our unbroken chain of

37:06

knowledge. Sometimes she blows things up.

37:08

The see, always bring them back.

37:11

Our. Audio engineer is Christian

37:13

Pro. Cole

37:16

or theme song was composed by

37:18

Mary and. Or

37:21

audio team includes. Lead Day Stephanie

37:23

wonder like might as their. Make

37:26

Burns and Williamson's. Parenting

37:28

Jared is Rachel

37:30

seven pulled. His

37:34

nephews. Alex

37:36

for both the mirror sarah. If

37:39

you like today's episode, please follow us to

37:41

break the show. Leave a review shirt with

37:43

up with you though. he really does help

37:46

us out. Until next time

37:48

have a good when everybody. Will

37:50

see any sooner.