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2:00

Hi, my name is

2:03

Susie Essman and I

2:05

feel tickled pink about

2:07

being Conan O'Brien's friend.

2:09

Alright, I'm not buying that for a

2:12

second. Hey

2:35

there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a

2:37

Friend and I'm hanging here with Sonam

2:39

of Sesyan. Hi Conan. And Mr. Matt

2:41

Gorley. Hi Conan. I don't know why

2:44

I did that. Hello Mr. President. And

2:48

I'm just happy to see you guys. I have

2:51

something I want to bring up to you

2:53

actually. That sounds... Something this weekend that I

2:55

realized. Okay. Did you hear he just said

2:57

he was happy to... I know, I know.

2:59

And I want to... Because there's always... Yeah,

3:01

that's your answer. I really was. I haven't

3:03

seen you guys in like, I don't know,

3:05

10 days or something and I was happy

3:07

to see you. So there you go. So

3:10

anyway, let's hear your thing. What

3:13

is it? What's up? Now you just threw me off. No, no,

3:15

no. What is it? Let's hear it. Oh, I hate this. Okay.

3:18

Alright. Well, okay. So my kids go to

3:21

an Armenian school. I don't know if you

3:23

knew this, I'm Armenian. And then we... They

3:25

learn about notable Armenians. And one of the

3:27

most notable Armenian composers is Aram Khachaturian, who

3:30

he's like, he's like well known. Everyone has

3:32

like heard of something he's composed. What kind

3:34

of stuff does he compose? Well, I will

3:36

tell you. I will tell you. Okay. I'm

3:39

sorry. I'm coming in hot. You are. Because

3:41

I just realized something this weekend that upset

3:43

me. You took his most famous composition, the

3:45

Sabre Dance, and you made

3:48

it the theme for the masturbating there.

3:50

And I...

3:53

When I figured that out... Yes! Yes! Well,

4:00

I know. Yes, you asshole. That

4:02

was our guy. And you made him

4:04

the masturbating bear thing. Well, because that's

4:07

what I used to hum when I masturbated as

4:09

a teenager. Oh. Out of respect for

4:11

the Armenian culture. I just loved him.

4:13

I think he's one of the great Armenian composers.

4:15

But you've got to admit it works really well

4:18

with a bear masturbating. Dun, dun, dun, dun,

4:20

dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun,

4:22

dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun,

4:24

dun, dun. It's wah-dah, weeny. It's just I

4:26

think there's a generation of people who think

4:29

that was made specifically for the masturbating bear.

4:31

And they don't realize it's part of a

4:33

bigger, beautiful thing. Well, first of all,

4:35

don't you think that however they hear

4:37

the music, it's introducing them to a

4:40

great Armenian artist. And then they can

4:42

go and appreciate the music on its

4:45

own right. By singing, bear-jizz,

4:48

bear-jizz. It's

4:50

also, it starts right as he grabs his

4:53

junk and starts jerking it. Yeah, that's when

4:55

you would, I mean, in comedy, that's when you would

4:57

hit the music cue. But it's not even like,

4:59

hey, here's the intro for the masturbating. It's

5:01

like, that's the theme song for him jerking

5:03

it. Is this, is this, is

5:05

this work by this Armenian

5:07

composer? First of all, we didn't

5:09

say what Armenian song would

5:12

work well with a bear masturbating. It just happened

5:15

to be that that was the best song. And

5:17

I think that speaks to this man's creativity. Also,

5:20

Sabret could be a euphemism and maybe he

5:22

wrote it for masturbating. No, it's a

5:25

Sabret dance. The people dance with

5:27

sabers in it. Yeah, okay. That's a

5:29

euphemism like I danced with my saber

5:31

last night. They did dance? Yeah. No,

5:34

it's masturbating. No, but I remember. He's in there

5:36

dancing with his saber. I once said to Matt,

5:38

you know how did it go last night? He

5:40

said, oh, wife's out of town. I did the

5:42

old saber dance last night. That's right. And I

5:44

remember, he remember who said that? Yeah, so bad

5:46

I couldn't sit down. Yeah. It's the

5:48

grown man in a bear costume jerking it to

5:50

like. No, no, he was real, he was a real

5:52

bear. Oh. But anyway,

5:54

I don't know why you're upset

5:56

about this, honestly, I don't know why you're

5:58

upset about it because. What? Because so

6:00

many young kids know that song

6:03

over the years because of the

6:05

masturbating bear, which was a very

6:07

popular character. And I mean, Eduardo,

6:09

you would never have heard of the Sabre dance

6:11

unless you had seen masturbating bear. I would have

6:13

been honored if you did like Mariachi Loco to

6:15

it. Yes. I don't know why you're upset. That's

6:17

not true. No, you wouldn't. Yes, we wouldn't. We

6:19

have so very little. And I think that you

6:21

took one of the things we have. What are

6:23

you talking about? You have Cher. You

6:26

have the Kardashians. You

6:28

have Dr. Kevorkian. Glandokalrissian.

6:30

Glandokalrissian. You know what I know? You

6:33

have all kinds of dried fruits and

6:35

apricots. Oh my God. No, seriously, you

6:37

have a beautiful culture. Don't say we

6:39

have so little. You have so much.

6:41

No, I think that you could

6:44

have used it for any other bit. And then

6:46

you used it for the masturbating bear. And now

6:48

people, like when we were listening to it, playing

6:50

for the boys in the car, dad was like,

6:53

isn't this the song for the masturbating bear? And

6:56

I was like, no way. And then I

6:58

Googled it. And it was. What do you

7:00

mean, no way? You work for me. This

7:03

was one of my biggest cultural achievements. And

7:05

you didn't know that this was the music that

7:07

went with the masturbating bear? I have a bigger

7:09

question. When was this written? Is this guy getting

7:12

royalties from the masturbating bear? Or is it like-

7:14

Oh, this is a long time ago. How long

7:16

ago? You don't know anything about him? He

7:19

was during the Soviet era. I know. So I think he was like

7:21

in the late 60s. Wait a minute.

7:23

He was under Stalin's thumb when he wrote this. He

7:27

was out of the Iron Jack boot. What

7:29

difference does that make though? Well, I'm just

7:31

saying, you know, now I have different implications

7:34

with that song. Can you change it? No,

7:36

it's been done. It's happened.

7:38

It's over. And can I say something?

7:40

His estate, I'm sure he's not around.

7:42

I'm sure Stalin took care of him.

7:49

But I want to assure you

7:51

that his estate has made a

7:53

lot of money off of that

7:56

that they can use towards all kinds

7:58

of cool- projects to

8:01

further Armenian culture. So you have

8:03

no right to be angry with

8:05

me, none whatsoever. And as the

8:07

judge here, I find you, not

8:12

only do I throw this case out, but

8:14

I find you for bringing it. Cool, you're

8:16

the judge. I think you own my entire

8:18

community and apology. Isn't it Conan O'Brien needs

8:20

of- Okay, you should just apologize. No,

8:23

how much am I- Just do it, just apologize. No,

8:26

I went to Armenia with you. I've done

8:28

everything I can to uplift and uphold. I

8:31

married you, no, that's not true.

8:34

No, no, I christened your children in the

8:37

Armenian church. Okay, I

8:39

learned lines in Armenian.

8:42

I have performed an Armenian wedding. Didn't I

8:44

do that? No, well, yeah, you married my

8:46

friend, Christine at Piss and her husband. Don't

8:48

call her Piss. Piss, Piss. Yeah,

8:51

okay, so you're thinking I'm disrespecting people.

8:53

Your good Armenian friend is named Piss? Yeah,

8:55

but you took one of our most famous

8:58

composers, took his music and put it for

9:00

the masturbating bear. And I just think that-

9:02

Because I knew that that would spread joy

9:04

everywhere. Yes. I was gonna

9:06

say, just think of all the joy that

9:08

that song has given people. Also, I will

9:11

say we've had many musicians on this podcast,

9:13

not to go against you, Sona, I'm sorry.

9:15

And they've always said they create a song

9:17

and it goes out into the world and

9:19

then people bring their own meanings to that

9:21

song. In this example, that meaning is a

9:23

bear masturbating, but I'm just saying, it's people

9:25

bring their own meanings to the

9:27

song, the song doesn't belong to them. He's turning

9:29

in his grave. He's turning in his grave from what

9:31

you've done. Grave, Stalin didn't. When

9:34

he shot people in the basement, they just went

9:36

away. There's no grave. I'm

9:38

sorry. I'm

9:41

fine with using the music. This is going too

9:43

far. Okay. Well,

9:45

anyway, Sona, I'll apologize

9:48

off, Mike. Or

9:50

will I, you'll never know. I apologize.

9:52

You'll never know, listener. We

9:55

got to get into today's show. My

9:57

guest today played Susie Green for 12

9:59

seasons. and they hit HBO series Curb

10:01

Your Enthusiasm, and I'm very excited that

10:04

she's here today because she's absolutely lovely

10:06

and hilarious. Susie

10:12

Estman, welcome. Are

10:17

we friends, really? Well, I'd like to think we

10:19

are. Or are we just showbiz friends? We're showbiz

10:22

friends. If you ever try to speak to me

10:24

outside of a showbiz setting, you'll get- Here we

10:26

go, I need clearance. You'll get- I

10:29

mean, it's funny, the reach of

10:31

that Curb Your Enthusiasm is

10:33

incredible because, I mean, ever

10:35

since I did that episode, which was,

10:37

I think, third from last or something

10:39

episode of the run of the show,

10:41

Larry needs Conan clearance, so many people come up and

10:43

say, I know I don't have clearance, but

10:46

would you like some french fries with your burger?

10:49

So that's been going on. Is it tedious at this point? It's

10:52

tedious. Oh no, I like it. Okay. I mean- You

10:55

know what I love that you did in that

10:57

episode? You allowed yourself to be an asshole. Oh,

10:59

trust me. Was it a stretch?

11:01

No, it was not. Well,

11:04

this is, I'm constantly

11:07

riffing with different people in

11:09

the office or writers or

11:11

other comics. My go-to is

11:13

this antagonistic guy. And

11:16

it's so funny because I was raised to

11:18

be so polite. And I

11:21

do really want people to be happy.

11:23

I mean, I'm a people pleaser, but

11:25

one of the things I love about the job

11:28

is that when there are moments when

11:31

it's comedically necessary, you can go to

11:33

town. That's who you're talking to.

11:35

I know, exactly. No, Susie, I

11:37

don't think you get it. Let me

11:39

explain. It's really fun to vent as a

11:41

comedy. God, Susie doesn't get it. But

11:44

anyway, when I went into that episode,

11:46

my thought was, because I've done a

11:48

lot of improv was, oh, I get

11:50

it. This show is whatever Larry wants,

11:52

don't give it to him. So

11:55

Larry sees me, and

11:58

he's trying to establish a connection. and

12:00

I know my job is not to let him have it. And

12:03

then he wants to have maybe get together and

12:05

I will not let it happen. Which is,

12:08

I would never do that in real life, but

12:10

it was so much fun to be an asshole. It's

12:12

called acting, Conan. No, it's not in my part. I

12:15

don't think I can act my way out of a paper

12:17

bag, but it was really fun to do that. It was

12:19

so much fun. But you know, some people would not allow

12:21

themselves to be that character because

12:24

they want to be likable and, you know, they don't...

12:27

It was funny with Ted Danson, Ted

12:29

didn't know for a very long time that he

12:31

was the cat. Yeah. You know,

12:33

because that's not his character. No, no. I

12:36

mean, everybody loves Ted Danson. And Larry

12:38

made him the asshole. Mm-hmm. You

12:40

know, and he was not aware of it

12:42

in the beginning that he was the asshole.

12:44

But then he's really good at it. Yeah,

12:46

he's great at it. I don't know if

12:48

you agree with this, but you seem to

12:50

me like somebody who... You know, the question

12:52

obviously you probably get all the time is

12:54

where does Suzy Essman start and Suzy Green

12:56

begin? Because you've been

12:59

so brilliant at being so

13:01

vulgar and being so

13:03

angry at Jeff,

13:06

Garland's character, and

13:08

Larry David, and just furious with everyone and

13:10

letting it fly. And sometimes when someone's that

13:13

good at it, I think that's because they

13:15

don't get to be that way in their

13:17

everyday life. So this is a release. Yeah,

13:19

it is. I mean, I don't walk around

13:21

treating people that way. And talking about people

13:24

pleasing, I see when people stop me in

13:26

the street, because I live in New York, so I'm in

13:28

the street. And I actually ran into you

13:30

in New York recently. I was going to talk about this. Yeah,

13:33

when they stop me in the street, I

13:35

see that they're visibly disappointed when

13:38

I'm gracious. I see

13:40

their faces just fall. They're

13:42

just so disappointed when I'm

13:44

gracious and kind. Because they

13:47

want you to call them a fuck face

13:49

or something. Yeah, exactly. And I actually don't

13:51

do that in real life. Surprise, surprise. It's

13:55

called acting. It's a character. But

13:57

yeah, it's tremendously releasing. And I've been a

14:00

little bit nervous. I would go home after

14:02

a screaming scene, which is almost all of

14:04

them, and I would sleep really well that

14:06

night because it was like a primal scream.

14:08

Yes, it's funny because I know that your

14:10

parents, your dad,

14:12

an oncologist, my dad's a

14:15

microbiologist, your mom taught at

14:17

Sarah Lawrence, my mom's a

14:20

lawyer, very well-educated people, and

14:22

we weren't even show business adjacent. We were

14:25

a million miles from show business, and

14:27

it was very important that everybody hide their

14:29

anger. You know what I mean? So

14:31

we could be, you could use guilt and you

14:34

could use sarcasm, but there was

14:36

a lot of attempts to hide anger and

14:38

displeasure. And then I found when I got

14:40

into comedy that being able to

14:42

just, if I shared an office

14:44

with Bob Odenkirk, and I could just

14:46

go to town on him. Yeah, it's

14:48

so much fun. It was fun, and

14:50

it's this miraculous thing where you're playing,

14:52

so no one gets hurt. No one

14:54

gets hurt. And then, you

14:56

know, scream and yell at Larry, and whatever,

14:59

or Jeff, whoever, and then it's cut, and

15:01

it's like, all right, why do you want

15:03

to have dinner? You know, it's just completely,

15:05

nobody gets hurt. That's the beauty of it.

15:07

I say that all the time. You scream,

15:09

you yell, fuck you, and you're an asshole,

15:11

but, and nobody gets hurt. No, I think

15:13

that's something that's kind of magical.

15:15

We do this all the

15:17

time, where I'll go back

15:20

and forth with Sona, and

15:22

if I ever thought for a second, if someone

15:25

later on said, Sona's feelings got a little bit

15:27

hurt, I would not sleep probably for five days.

15:29

Right, right, right. But you're so good at it,

15:31

though. That's why it might be who you really

15:33

are, and then this is the facade. This is

15:36

the facade. But I have to take issue with

15:38

something you just said. I'm not an actor. It's

15:41

bullshit. Okay. Because

15:43

you were on, every day you did

15:45

a TV show. Oh, that's true. And,

15:48

you know, you're delivering monologues, you're doing

15:50

sketches. What do you think

15:52

it is? It's not like, you know, you're not, you're

15:55

not mamma-streepe. Well,

15:58

goddamn it. Neither is she. Susie,

16:00

I was certain. Wow,

16:02

Meryl Streep is at Meryl Streep. She'll

16:05

be crushed. I would say to Larry all the time,

16:07

I think Larry's a great actor. And I think he's

16:09

just gotten better and better over the years. And I

16:11

would tell him that and he was like, oh, I'm

16:14

not an actor, I don't act. Yes,

16:16

he is acting. That's not who he is in

16:18

real life. Right. You know? I

16:20

guess what I'm saying is I know

16:22

that if I had to go out on stage and

16:26

have a very emotionally raw moment

16:28

with somebody and weep and

16:30

tell them I love them or

16:32

more. Well, that's masturbatory, that kind

16:34

of acting. That's not acting. That's.

16:38

How did you know I cry when I masturbate? When

16:43

I masturbate, I'm just like, oh God. I

16:47

love you. I

16:49

think everybody probably assumed that about you.

16:51

I just don't. But

16:54

that, I mean, that's one kind of acting.

16:56

Right. No, no, I understand. I

16:58

think you're right. It's not good

17:01

to say I'm not this,

17:03

I'm not that. It's all those

17:05

years, almost three decades of doing

17:07

the talk show. I do think

17:10

the one thing I got very good at

17:12

was sometimes because you're doing a volume business,

17:14

you're interviewing someone who you're not, you're talking

17:16

to three people a night, five nights a

17:18

week. There's some dollars in there. There's some

17:20

dollars in there. There's some people

17:22

who maybe you didn't really excited to

17:24

talk to. I would work on, no,

17:26

no, everybody's. You'd fake it. Fake

17:29

it and also convince myself. I

17:31

am interested in this 26 year

17:33

old actor from

17:35

the WB show that I've never watched. Who has

17:37

nothing to say of interest. I'm sorry. It's always

17:40

a 26 year old actor from a WB show.

17:43

I'm thinking of one person. No,

17:46

so you could say, well, you were a performer,

17:48

but you were acting. Right. Acting

17:51

is pretending. It's what it is. I'm

17:53

gonna tell you that, I don't think these guys know

17:55

this, but not long ago, I'm in New York City

17:58

and I sit down. and I'm

18:01

in an outdoor cafe, I think on the Upper

18:03

West side. No, it was East side. Oh, East

18:05

side. Upper East side. I'm

18:08

no longer allowed on the Upper

18:10

West until the charges are dropped.

18:12

But, no, it's a long story.

18:14

Sona, please. Zae Bars has banned

18:16

him. Yeah. I

18:18

stole an everything bagel. And

18:20

they don't mind if you steal an onion

18:23

bagel, but when you steal an everything bagel,

18:25

that's like crossing a line of fire.

18:27

There's a lot of stuff on me. But

18:29

I was sitting there and we ran into

18:32

each other and this was my visceral response

18:35

was, God, I love

18:37

Susie S. Minh. She's such a real

18:39

person. You are a real person. Some

18:42

people in the business kind of calcify a

18:44

little bit. You are so emotionally available. You

18:47

are so nice. And so we

18:49

part company and I immediately text Paula

18:51

Davis, who you were hanging out with

18:53

beforehand. And I said, we have to

18:55

get Susie S. Minh on the podcast.

18:57

And of course she texts right back,

18:59

I love Susie S. Minh. But

19:03

that is the effect I think you have

19:05

on people. Thank you, that's nice. But

19:08

it's so funny that you've, what most people

19:10

know you're from, even you've been successful and

19:12

you've been in comedy. And I mean,

19:14

you did Carson in 1989. I

19:17

say, it was not good by the way. It didn't go

19:19

well? No, it didn't go well. What happened? Tell me about

19:21

it. Well, I went on, I

19:23

was on a series on NBC called Baby Boom.

19:28

It was a takeoff of the movie

19:30

that had been with Diane Keaton only

19:32

Kate Jackson was playing the main character.

19:34

I was her secretary. So they had

19:36

me on as like the young NBC

19:38

ingenue. And I was

19:41

a comic and he didn't know I was a

19:43

comic. And I think I was a little bit

19:45

too blue for him or too. I

19:47

looked in his eye and I grew up on

19:50

Carson. I mean, I'm older than all of you.

19:52

Combined, I think, maybe not

19:54

Aaron. But. That's

19:58

true. That's very true. Aaron

20:00

Blair, it's so young. How old are you,

20:03

David? Well,

20:05

he grew up on Carson Daily. Yeah, Carson Daily.

20:07

Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

20:09

but this is, you know, like when I was a

20:12

kid, I used to set the alarm to wake up

20:14

because we didn't have VHS or DVR or any of

20:16

that crap. Right. And just, you

20:18

know, I would set the alarm if it was Jonathan

20:20

Winters or Rickles or, you know, that was... Sure. Yes.

20:24

So to be on the show and yet he was nothing

20:26

like I looked at his eyes and it was just ice

20:28

cold. Yeah. And

20:30

I had no rapport with him. And David

20:33

Steinberg was the guest that night next to

20:35

me who then became my friend because he

20:37

directed so many curbs. But he was incredibly

20:39

kind and gracious to me. But it was,

20:41

I was never so scared in my life.

20:43

I remember going on, there was no moisture

20:45

in my life, in my mouth. And

20:49

it was just really scary and it

20:51

didn't go well. I've always heard that

20:53

he was and got

20:56

to meet him a couple of times that

20:59

he was quite different from what you saw

21:01

on television. Yes. And some

21:03

people are very good at projecting warmth and then they're

21:05

quite shy, you know, off

21:08

camera. And then I've talked about this

21:10

before because you can go through show businesses and say, it's

21:12

almost like there are two types of

21:15

comedian. There's, you know, Steve Martin. When

21:18

you meet Steve Martin, I love

21:20

him and I've become very friendly with

21:22

him. But when I first

21:24

met him, when I was a writer at

21:26

SNL, I was expecting the Steve Martin that

21:28

I idolized when I was in grade

21:31

school and high school. He's quiet,

21:33

he's guarded, he's very serious. And

21:36

you know, he's like a surgeon who's going to get

21:39

ready to do a very big operation. And

21:41

then you meet Marty Short and Marty Short will do

21:43

45 minutes. So

21:45

I very quickly realized, oh, I'm the

21:47

Marty Short type. But also

21:49

I will say in my defense, I'm,

21:52

and sometimes- Well, what's better than making people laugh? I

21:54

love it. Yeah. And

21:56

I'll leave, sometimes I'll leave and I'll say

21:59

to my wife. Liza, I'll say, man, I

22:01

really killed in there. And

22:03

she will say, it was a room full

22:05

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22:07

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25:41

it means a business doing

25:43

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place to be, to be. Does

26:53

your wife laugh at you? She does. Yeah.

26:56

Thank God, because I think there are times where

26:58

definitely she's looking at me and I think she

27:00

knows California is a 50-50 state. She

27:04

knows she's financially set. We

27:06

remind her all the time. Yeah, they're always

27:08

reminding her. But then I'll say

27:10

something and she'll laugh and I'll think, okay, I

27:12

think we're good for another day. Is she funny?

27:14

Yes, she's very funny and very, she can be

27:17

very funny on her own, but also very dry.

27:20

And kind of like, uh-huh, that's great. Yeah,

27:22

that's really funny. Let's wrap it up, let's

27:24

go. I saw Bob Newhart

27:26

and Jenny, his wife, came to

27:28

our house once. She's since passed,

27:30

but she was so funny

27:32

on her own, but also so great

27:34

with Bob Newhart. And then

27:36

Bob was telling a story and

27:39

it was getting late. And then she just said,

27:41

all right, Newhart, let's wrap it up. And

27:44

I thought, wow, she's like, Liza,

27:46

I love this. This is what we need.

27:48

We need partners who- Who know how to

27:50

control you. Control us. Yes,

27:53

boundaries. Shut it down. What

27:55

about your- Jimmy? Yeah,

27:57

Jimmy. Jimmy has a great sense of humor.

28:00

and can make me laugh, but he's not

28:02

funny. He's funny in a different way, like

28:04

what you were saying. And,

28:06

you know, I never understand these two

28:09

comic couples. Oh, God no. Oh,

28:11

please, I never dated a comic. To me,

28:13

that would be a nightmare. I've

28:15

seen them, they exist. They're out

28:17

there? They are out there. They're

28:19

out there. Does it work? Have you seen

28:21

a comedy couple where it works? I stay

28:24

away from them because they scare me. I'm

28:26

not that close with them. So like, I'm gonna hit him, I'm gonna

28:28

move. The other one's like, yeah, well, I didn't have

28:30

any to do. But people will say to my

28:32

husband all the time, is she funny at home? Or they'll ask,

28:34

does she scream and yell at you? It was, what

28:37

kind of stupid question is that? Like I

28:39

walk around acting like Susie Green and dressed

28:42

like her and screaming at him and kicking

28:44

him the fuck out of the house. What

28:46

kind of marriage would that be? It's fiction.

28:48

You know what I love? I

28:50

love you yelling at Larry, but

28:52

I think because I came up

28:54

with Jeff Garland and we shared an apartment

28:56

back in Chicago in the day. That whole

28:58

concept is just- We've known each other forever.

29:01

So I took particular joy when you

29:03

would go after Jeff. You fat fuck.

29:06

And I would just be, I would be

29:08

crying laughing. But you know, Larry kind of

29:10

saved me. As the seasons went on,

29:12

he would save me more and more for him.

29:15

Less and less for Jeff. Like,

29:17

you know, relish that. The man

29:19

loves to be yelled and screamed at.

29:22

I mean, loves it. He like lives

29:25

for it. Also, he knows there's this

29:27

great secret. I mean, who did it better

29:29

than we're going way back there? But I talk

29:32

about this sometimes, Jack Benny. And

29:34

even, and Carson did it so well. What I learned a

29:36

long time ago, you can get big

29:38

laughs by just- The method. Right,

29:40

reacting and looking a little sad

29:43

and downtrodden when

29:45

it's appropriate. And so Larry's so

29:47

good at when he's being eviscerated

29:49

the way his face falls. And

29:53

the way he just tested to, and

29:55

I think also Jeff Garland would just

29:57

look, oh God, I'm just, I just

29:59

have to take it. because I just

30:01

got downtrodden. I got busted. Susie

30:03

knows. Well, they did such stupid shit

30:05

too. You know, it's like

30:08

people would ask me questions. Is it

30:10

hard to get that angry? No, he's

30:12

stealing my kid's doll's head. He's stealing

30:14

my kid's dog. He's getting her drunk.

30:17

He's getting us kicked out of a

30:19

country club. He's stealing a salad dressing

30:21

recipe. It's not like a big method

30:24

acting thing I gotta do. You

30:26

just have to be in the scene and it's like,

30:29

look what these fucking assholes are doing now. Did

30:34

you, I talked about how

30:36

your parents are, you know, academics

30:39

and professionals. Intellectuals.

30:42

And I know you had a

30:44

great grandfather who was like a, is this

30:46

right, a great grandfather, a great grandfather who

30:49

was a very respected silent film actor, is

30:51

that right? Yes, yeah, he was

30:53

my great grandfather. He was actually the empresario

30:55

of the Russian Grand Opera Company. Oh my

30:57

God. Yeah, there's a whole story. But they

31:00

were crazy. They were like these crazy, and

31:02

then he was in Yiddish theater when he

31:04

came to New York and he was in

31:06

silent films with Lon Channy. He was in

31:08

a few silent films. Yeah. I'm curious. But

31:11

I never knew him. He died before I was born. Before

31:13

I was murdered. Yeah, well he

31:16

was murdered. He was hit

31:18

by young- What? I just threw that

31:20

out there. I know. Well he wasn't

31:22

murdered, but he was hit by a

31:24

car of drunk drivers. Oh, that's terrible.

31:27

I have to say, I always, reflexively, if someone

31:29

says and then they die, I always said, or

31:31

was murdered. Some people were murdered, calling him. And

31:33

you know what, like a third of the time,

31:35

I get more after that. They go, they were.

31:38

I guess that was involuntary manslaughter, not murder. Well,

31:40

we're not judges here. We don't have to- I

31:43

think that's what it is. Oh, thank you.

31:45

Thank you, Judge. Oh, you're welcome. I'm

31:48

an intellectual. Yes, I know. But

31:51

did your parents accept your

31:54

career? Did they accept- No. No.

31:57

So what was their attitude? Well, first of all, I was- I

32:00

suffered from benign neglect. They never really knew.

32:02

They didn't really have that much hope for

32:04

me in any way, shape, or form, or

32:06

interest. And I had, my

32:09

older brother and sister were, you know, problem

32:11

children, so I just kind of flew under

32:14

the radar and did whatever I want. And

32:16

when I told them I was gonna be

32:18

a comic, they were just, mm, you know.

32:21

But then once I was successful, it

32:23

wasn't once their friends recognized

32:25

that I was successful, then they

32:28

were okay with it. So it's

32:30

interesting, you were doing standup comedy

32:33

in this time where notoriously,

32:35

I mean, things have changed so

32:37

much for the better, but notoriously

32:39

difficult for women. For women, yes.

32:42

I mean, difficult isn't even the

32:44

word, but almost a societal

32:46

sense of, it's

32:49

really funny when a guy gets up there, but

32:51

there's almost a different lens that goes up when

32:53

a woman gets on stage, which is, I mean,

32:55

I even saw it with my own

32:58

mother who, wonderful person, but

33:00

the generation she came from, if

33:02

I was behaving like a fool and being

33:05

a wise guy, she thought it was really

33:07

funny. And if my sister started to do

33:09

it, I could see her tense up. That's

33:11

not lady life. That's not lady life. Yeah,

33:13

and especially the anger. I mean, not that

33:15

my standup wasn't angry, but the Susie Green

33:17

character, you know, I mean, you're much

33:20

younger, Sona, so I don't know if you were

33:22

brought up this way, but I was brought up,

33:24

you do not show anger as a female. You

33:26

have to be a nice little lady, you know? So

33:29

I have women who feel, I feel

33:31

as though Susie gives them permission to

33:34

embrace their anger in a certain way,

33:36

but standup in the 80s was very,

33:38

very difficult, and I kind of was

33:41

breaking a little bit of a mold

33:43

there. The women who came

33:45

before me, which you could name on

33:47

one hand, you know, Joan, Phyllis, Todi,

33:49

couple of others, Jean Carroll, I

33:52

felt as though they all had to

33:54

be self-deprecating or the audience would not

33:56

accept them. Right. You know,

33:58

Phyllis dressed up in the crazy outfit. Todie

34:00

was obese. Joan was just talking about how

34:02

my thighs and I'm so ugly and she

34:04

wasn't. She was adorable. But it

34:07

was almost as though they had to be that way.

34:09

And I didn't connect to that. I didn't want to

34:11

do that at all, that kind of material. Were you

34:13

doing stand-up at the same time as Joy Behar? Well,

34:15

yeah. Joy and I came up together. You guys came

34:17

up together. So you could

34:19

bond over that. Yes. And she was actually very

34:22

influential to me. I just got off

34:24

the phone with her. She's still my bestie. Because

34:26

I saw what she was doing on stage,

34:28

which she was just exactly like she was

34:30

off stage. But heightened, of course, it's always

34:33

heightened. But she was just like... First

34:35

time I saw her, I was like, oh, I

34:37

see. It's just like I'm sitting around the kitchen

34:39

table with my girlfriends. And women at that time,

34:41

I don't know if it's still the case, would

34:43

be funny around their girlfriends, but not around the

34:45

boys. I

34:48

remember my father telling me that when

34:50

you're around men, just listen to them.

34:52

Don't talk too much and have so

34:55

many opinions. Just listen to what they're

34:57

saying. And I was like, what are you fucking kidding me?

35:03

I'm sorry, but your father's describing a

35:06

golden era. Oh, no. No. You

35:10

know, and then I'm

35:14

sorry. I have not experienced that.

35:16

I've never seen

35:19

that. I want to go back

35:21

to that time and have someone listen to me. It's

35:23

not going to happen. Not going to happen. I

35:26

would talk about, you know, I was talking about sex.

35:28

I was talking about whatever was going on in my

35:30

life. I was dating younger guys. And

35:32

now women talk about that all the time, but

35:35

it was not really happening when

35:37

I was talking about it. And what I would

35:39

find with, you know, at the time, the Friars

35:41

Club existed and I would do all these benefits

35:43

with the old guys, the old Starkers, the Allen

35:46

Kings and those guys. And I was so confusing

35:48

to them because they would, you know, I was

35:50

cute and, you know, and they would look at

35:52

me and they didn't know whether they wanted to

35:55

fuck me or laugh at me. They were so

35:57

confused by it, these old guys. Right. I

36:00

did a show with Alan King in Atlantic City and he

36:02

was the host. And this is

36:04

how he introduced me. He goes, in

36:06

my day, all the broads who were

36:09

funny had something wrong with them. Martha

36:11

Ray had a big mouth. Todie Fields

36:13

was fat. But this broad is pretty

36:15

and funny. Please welcome Susie Essman. Jesus

36:18

Christ. That was the intro. That

36:20

was the intro. Oh, my God. It

36:23

was a different generation. Get this! Call

36:26

Rip, please, believe it or not. She's

36:29

funny and you don't want to throw up when

36:32

you look at it. This broad, you know, you

36:35

had to make your bones with those guys.

36:37

Yeah. But I mean, God bless you. What

36:40

do you think gave you the I'm just

36:43

going to say it, the nerve for anyone to get up

36:45

on stage and do that is one thing. But for a

36:48

woman at that time, what's

36:50

driving you, do you think? What made you

36:52

what gave you the chutzpah? He's an old

36:54

Irish term. I still don't

36:56

know. Yeah. What what all

36:59

I know is I was coming out of

37:01

a very dark place in my life. I

37:03

had no other alternatives. I was unhappy. I

37:06

was lost. And I there was

37:08

like this woman I needed to become that

37:10

I didn't know what it was. But I

37:12

knew that there was she was there. And

37:14

I started doing stand up, which was friends

37:16

kind of forced me to do it because

37:18

I was funny. And after about

37:21

a month, I was like, OK, this is what

37:23

I was born to do. And then I just

37:25

was just focused and just moved forward. But it

37:27

wasn't easy. You know, they wouldn't put more than

37:29

one woman on a lineup in those days. It

37:32

would just be male, male, male, one woman. You

37:34

couldn't have two. So you tried

37:36

not to be competitive with the other women because

37:38

you were all always fighting for spots. Right. But,

37:41

you know, it was hard. This is more of a

37:43

process question. But were you someone who sat down and

37:45

worked out what your routine is going to be? Now

37:47

you went up there. Did you find it on stage?

37:50

Yes, I would find it in the

37:53

most terrifying way. I would have, you

37:55

know, premises and ideas, but I would

37:57

find the punch line with the gun

37:59

to my head. head on stage. And

38:02

it's one of the reasons I don't do it anymore. It's too terrifying

38:06

but that's how I would work. And then I

38:08

would try to do it the Jerry Seinfeld way

38:10

of sitting and writing bits. And then I would

38:12

try to do it, okay, I'm going to start

38:14

with this material and set up a

38:16

whole. And it was so boring to me. I

38:18

had to be all over the place, which ended

38:20

up serving me well because I became an improviser

38:23

and then I got the part on curb to

38:25

improvise. But after I would set a

38:27

routine, I was able to do it that way.

38:29

But to write it, I would have to find

38:31

it on stage. Which is

38:33

terrifying. Yeah. I guess I'm comfortable

38:36

in this middle ground where I

38:38

love to prepare. I

38:40

need to prepare, especially for there are certain

38:42

things where you really have to prepare. Well,

38:45

you would do a monologue every night. But

38:47

I always found that I enjoyed the fucking

38:49

around between the jokes more

38:51

than the jokes. I'll do the jokes, but

38:53

the jokes were just a lily pad to

38:55

get me to, I could jump

38:58

off the lily pad and then swim around. I loved,

39:01

if a joke didn't work, I

39:03

loved acknowledging what just happened. I

39:06

can hear my own heart beating right now. And then the

39:08

crowd would be like, oh my God, he noticed. But this

39:10

is why I always like doing your show. Because

39:13

there was that, you do certain talk

39:15

shows and they pre-interview you and what

39:17

bits do you want to do. And

39:19

I don't like working. I like to

39:21

just show up and we, you know.

39:24

It's good to have. Unless you're a

39:26

WB store that's 26 years old. And

39:28

you know who you are. He waited

39:32

on me three days ago. He

39:35

did. Does the WB still exist? No, it was

39:37

the CW and then it doesn't exist. It's still

39:39

there, I think. Yeah, could you guys clarify exactly

39:41

how this whole transition happened? I mean, that was

39:44

pretty much it. Are you doing a joke? Yeah,

39:46

I was doing a little bit of a bit.

39:49

I don't care.

39:52

Susie's giving me the strength to really shout

39:54

at both of you. Go ahead, baby. Go

39:56

fuck those fuck faces. Um,

40:01

but yeah, because but you're you're by nature

40:03

an improviser, but when you're doing a television

40:05

show you have to have the material Yes

40:07

Yeah, you'd have to have the material but

40:09

I guess what i've found over the years

40:13

Is I like to have ideas when I

40:15

go out there? But then when

40:17

we do these live podcasts when we get to

40:19

the end I just talk to the audience and

40:21

sometimes that'll go on for like 40 minutes Yeah,

40:24

and they're the biggest laughs of the night Yeah,

40:26

because i'm having so much fun and i'm

40:29

you know, there's a seat empty next to

40:31

somebody and i'm like, well, wait a minute

40:33

What happened to this? Oh, she couldn't make

40:35

it. Well, where is she call her and

40:37

it's just I love that. Yeah, it's called

40:39

creativity I

40:41

call it desperation Just

40:43

fill time Yeah, there's also natural

40:46

curiosity about how the who's on the other end of

40:48

the phone It's why it's why when I when I

40:50

used to do standup, I used to work the room

40:52

Yeah, because it was much more interesting than what I

40:54

had to say, right? People will tell

40:56

you the most intimate details of their life

40:58

too, which is fascinating. I've always been fascinated

41:01

I want to say I think 95 of my close friends are

41:04

jewish And

41:07

always have been and I grew

41:09

up so irish catholic, but i've

41:11

always gravitated You're the 12th

41:13

tribe, you know, like well exactly i'm i'm

41:15

trying to figure out I feel such a

41:18

kinship With jewish people the

41:20

thing i'm most envious of is the

41:22

food because I think really yeah, i'm

41:24

not the itallians No, no, i'm

41:26

talking about the irish the itallians have amazing food.

41:29

Yeah, but um, let's leave the itallians out of

41:31

this for right now Because

41:33

man do they get my goat I'm

41:36

talking about like the irish. We have a

41:38

we have nobody says let's get takeout irish.

41:40

No That's

41:42

a potato in a bag Although

41:45

conan I was in ireland for the

41:47

first time this past the fall last

41:49

september And the food was fantastic

41:51

in doublin a lot of great

41:53

food Well, it changed they there was a

41:55

culinary boom and a lot of the great

41:58

chefs started going to doublin I

42:00

think in the late 80s, 90s. So they

42:02

have amazing restaurants, but all I ever want

42:04

to do is go to a deli. Yeah.

42:07

My favorite meals are, corned

42:09

beef sandwich, just all of

42:12

it, latkes, potato pancakes, cream soda. Yes,

42:15

the test. Do you like gefilte fish? Yeah, I'm

42:17

okay with gefilte fish. All right, there you go.

42:19

Then you are a Jew. I'm

42:21

a Jew. I have now anointed you. Thank

42:24

you. But when I was in Ireland, I

42:26

felt an incredibly, and I loved being, I

42:28

just loved it. It was one of my

42:30

favorite places I've ever been. I felt an

42:33

incredible affinity with the Irish. Yeah. I think

42:35

it's an oppressed group. I mean, I felt

42:37

that about them. They had been so oppressed

42:39

by the Brits for so many years, and

42:42

I just felt that sense of being a

42:45

part of an oppressed group. I always

42:47

thought it was interesting when I started

42:49

to learn more about Irish

42:51

history and that there was

42:53

literally getting conquered and conquered and conquered and

42:56

not having a say in your own life.

42:58

Like you're going to work this land, you

43:00

don't own the land. Because there's no agency,

43:02

what you do is you find these different

43:04

ways to rebel. I think it's

43:06

true of a lot of oppressed groups.

43:08

They figure out this other way, and

43:10

they figure out whether through music or

43:12

comedy, writing,

43:15

the Irish bent

43:17

and twisted the language. You get James Joyce

43:19

because it's almost this like, fuck you, we're

43:21

going to do it this way. Right. But

43:23

the Irish, there's a lot of Irish poets

43:25

as well, and playwrights. I think

43:27

that they also have that in common

43:30

with the Jews is the use of

43:32

language. It's a very verbal culture.

43:34

It's very fascinating to me. I know

43:36

a lot of people have talked about

43:38

this sort of similarity, but I've always

43:41

found that that's the way I gravitated.

43:45

Well, we'll accept you. As

43:47

long as I get the food. As

43:49

long as I get the food, did you

43:51

have these, I want to say stereotypical Jewish

43:53

cuisine growing up? My mother was

43:56

like the worst cook in the entire

43:58

world. Oh God, she was so bad.

44:00

She was horrible. And

44:02

my mother was also hygienically not, you

44:04

know, up to par. What?

44:07

You know, so none of us ever wanted to eat her. I always

44:09

felt like she was doing munch-housing by proxy and

44:11

trying to kill us all. You know? Because that's

44:14

what it felt like. But, yeah, she

44:16

was not, uh... You didn't want to eat her

44:18

food, trust me. Okay. Okay. So you didn't grow

44:20

up around the giant great meals that, you know...

44:23

No. No, but my father used to take us down to the Lower East

44:25

Side all the time. We would go

44:27

to Ratner's Deli and Katz's Deli and, you

44:29

know, and we would go to the Epstein's

44:33

and the Bronx and get fresh bagels and all of

44:36

that stuff. My friend, when I was

44:38

in, uh... Well, you know him well,

44:40

Sona, but when I was in college, uh, met

44:43

this guy who would become really great friends, Rodman Flender, and

44:45

he would take me... He grew

44:47

up in Hell's Kitchen, and he would just... He

44:49

would always take me to... There was like 35

44:51

delis that were great, and

44:53

he knew where they all were, and he would

44:55

take me there and tell me what to get,

44:57

and he made me matzah-bri once, and I was

44:59

like... Oh, matzah-bri. I love matzah-bri. I

45:02

live for matzah-bri. Well, you gotta have

45:04

Rodman Flender's matzah-bri. Okay. Light me over.

45:07

Shout-out to Rodman. What's up? What is it? Matzah-bri

45:10

is... It's matzah that's egged.

45:13

It's like matzah French toast. Oh, that's cool. It's

45:16

so delicious. Ah, what's up?

45:18

Can you tell Rodman to come make some? Where

45:21

is Rodman now? Rodman right now is in New York, but

45:23

he'll be back here soon. He goes... He's

45:25

sort of bicoastal now. What does he do? Director,

45:30

and I mean, just... He's a brilliant

45:32

guy, very funny, but mostly directing. He's directed

45:34

a lot of television. He's directed film, directed

45:37

documentaries. I'm glad he's getting a shout-out. Yeah,

45:39

I love Rodman. You love Rodman. I

45:41

do. I just do. I told you you love him. I didn't ask

45:43

you. I know. You just said it, but

45:45

I do. But I don't

45:47

like you forcing it on me. And you're

45:49

gonna love his matzah-bri, whether you want to or not. See,

45:51

now I'm not gonna like him. No, you are. Because you're

45:54

telling me to like him. Okay. There's no way not to

45:56

like matzah-bri. Okay. I like breakfast roast. It's one of the...

45:58

There you go. And I love matzah. Although, I had a-

46:01

It's a win-win. I had a

46:03

matzah the other day that was

46:05

so devoid of moisture that I thought my

46:07

head was going to implode. Someone

46:10

handed me a matzah, and I like matzah,

46:12

but this matzah for some reason, it had

46:14

no nothing and I

46:17

put it in my mouth and it sucked

46:19

the marrow out of my bones. Oh, God.

46:21

What was this? It was like

46:23

a death matzah cookie. I don't know. I'm

46:26

just saying, have you ever heard of ever had

46:28

a matzah that really just- I've never had a

46:30

death matzah cookie. I'm

46:32

not denying your experience, but I've

46:34

never had it. I'm

46:37

convinced it's out there. Now

46:39

it's become my nessie. I swear I

46:41

saw it and everyone's like, there's no,

46:43

no, we've never seen it. My father

46:46

used to eat, in the morning he

46:48

would have herring, like pickled herring. Ugh,

46:50

that's gross to me. My

46:52

dad, I don't know, I mean, such an

46:54

Irish guy, but he would have borscht. Really?

46:57

Like little cured fishes and stuff that

46:59

really, I mean, borscht just

47:01

looked disgusting to me. It

47:03

looked like he was having a bowl of blood and

47:06

then chewing on some oily fish. And

47:08

then he'd, you know, and he was always very

47:10

fussy about it. You can imagine my dad just

47:12

having, and then a little cup of something else

47:14

that was gross, some liver. Sorry,

47:18

I'll have a little minced liver and then I'll

47:20

put a little oily fish in my mouth and

47:22

then I'll drink this blood juice. He's

47:24

just eating. Borscht is good too. Sorry,

47:28

it is. I'm so quiet. I

47:30

know, it is, I'm sorry, it's delicious. Adam,

47:32

how do you feel about borscht? Just bringing

47:34

him into the conversation. I do love matzo

47:36

brite though. Oh, there you go. Everybody knows

47:38

matzo brite. And I was thinking when you

47:40

said that you had the dry matzo, isn't

47:43

by definition it's dry, there's no moisture in

47:45

it anyway. That's what I'm thinking too. But

47:47

this was something else in it. There was

47:49

something that sucked moisture out. It deprived me

47:51

of moisture. I went blind because all

47:54

of the liquid in my eye went down into the

47:56

matzo and I couldn't see

47:58

for three days. music.

48:01

I'm an

48:04

idiot. This group.

48:06

I know we're so

48:08

stupid. Susie regrets coming

48:11

so... Conan O'Brien.

48:13

So Curb's

48:16

over now. You're gonna miss that. Yeah,

48:19

I will. But you know, I

48:21

mean everything's got to come to an end. I mean

48:23

it's just we had an amazing run for

48:25

24 years, but I'll miss it. I

48:27

won't ever... Larry would tell me this all the

48:29

time. You'll never do anything that's funny again. Well,

48:31

he's right. He can't say that. Well, yeah, he can.

48:34

You can't say it if your name's

48:37

in the show. He's Larry David and he can say

48:39

it. I guess he can, but it seems... It doesn't

48:41

seem right. I'm gonna have a bone to pick with

48:43

Larry now. You know what? He'll never do anything as

48:46

funny as this Conan podcast. Never! Good luck to you.

48:48

But the reason why he's right is because

48:50

I can't imagine anything else that I would

48:52

do that I would have as much creative

48:54

input. Yes. You're given a script and how

48:57

many times have I gotten a script that

48:59

like make it funny when it's not? But

49:02

if Larry wrote it, it would have been. But I

49:04

got to write all my own

49:07

lines. I got to create the

49:09

character. And being in

49:11

a creative collaboration with him, I'll

49:14

never have anything like that again. I

49:16

also think that between

49:19

when the pilot for that show was

49:21

made and now comedy

49:24

changed a lot in a good

49:26

way. We got

49:28

away from proscenium comedy sitcoms

49:31

and we got away from laugh tracks and

49:33

we got away from some of the phoniness.

49:36

And so the comedy that you guys were

49:38

doing in the early curbs, there's nothing to

49:40

indicate. I mean, the office was doing this

49:42

too. You know, the British office and then

49:45

the American office. They were letting

49:47

awkward moments play as awkward. And

49:49

let them sit. Let them sit.

49:52

And they were establishing

49:54

natural rhythms. And I think there's a

49:56

whole generation that now looks

49:59

at that. that's what comedy is

50:01

supposed to be. So if

50:03

you now show a 22 year old, a

50:08

person walks in and, hey, what's

50:10

going on? Laugh

50:13

track. And, oh, who's this kooky guy? And

50:15

then a kid puts his, a little kid

50:17

puts his fist on his, and says like,

50:19

well, if you two get a divorce, I'll

50:22

be the one that gets custody. And it's

50:24

like, we now all know, no

50:27

one will accept that. Nor

50:29

should they. And it was of its

50:31

time, I'm not criticizing that. It was, you know, it's

50:33

what we grew up on. And some of them were

50:36

brilliant. You know, I

50:38

mean, I grew up with some brilliant

50:40

sitcoms out there, some crap, but some

50:42

brilliant ones too. But yeah, I mean,

50:44

look, comedy is a reflection as it

50:47

should be of the culture. One

50:50

of the things that Curb has done, which

50:52

I think is remarkable, it is not given

50:54

into any kind of political correctness

50:57

in any way. And how

50:59

we get away with it on that

51:01

show is remarkable, given the environment that

51:03

we're in. Something that occurred to me is, there's

51:06

just this general knowledge that

51:09

no one's getting an apology from Larry

51:11

David. In a good

51:13

way, meaning he is going

51:15

to irritate everyone. In-

51:18

Equal opportunity, irritator. Equal opportunity, irritator. And

51:20

that he's not gonna be caught in a

51:22

moment where he has to then go in

51:24

on camera and say, you know, we did

51:26

a thing, and I apologize. Because

51:29

he was, first

51:31

of all, he always put himself down. That's

51:33

right. So his character was always the one

51:35

who loses. He sticks his finger in his own

51:37

eye. He sticks his finger in

51:39

his own eye. And also, so

51:41

there's not malice there. And then

51:44

there's also a genuine, let's explore

51:46

why these different tropes freak people

51:48

out so much and do it

51:51

in an equal way. And I think that's

51:53

why there was just this general acceptance of

51:55

yes, this show can do that. And

51:57

he's also saying what people want to say.

52:00

But they can't. You know, like I was looking at a scene

52:02

the other day where he goes

52:05

up to a couple that have an

52:07

adopted Chinese baby. And he says, does

52:09

the kid have a proclivity for chopsticks?

52:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

52:15

mean, who else is going to do

52:17

that? But Larry. Right. And it's hilarious.

52:19

And he's not saying it's right. He's saying- He's

52:21

not saying it's right. And, but you know, you

52:23

kind of wonder. Yeah. He's,

52:26

I do think

52:28

it's healthy when great things come to

52:30

an end, you know? There's, it can't

52:32

last forever. Yeah. And also it needs

52:35

to, it needs to whatever, transmogrify, transform.

52:37

You need to go do the next

52:39

thing. Right. You know, so

52:42

it's, it's very liberating people. And the episodes

52:44

are there. Everyone can watch and rewatch and

52:46

rewatch. And there's a lot of them. There's 121 of them. And,

52:51

you know, we're all getting old, you know? It's

52:53

like, I think what Larry felt like and he's

52:55

going to be 77 in July. How

52:59

long could he act like this ridiculousness

53:01

that he acts in that character, you

53:03

know? I mean, I think he just felt

53:05

that. It just, especially after Richard died

53:07

too. It really felt like it was

53:10

just over. I can't imagine doing

53:12

this show without Louis. I just can't imagine

53:14

it. But it feels, it

53:16

doesn't feel sad to me as much as

53:18

I feel and not to be

53:20

Pollyanna. I just feel so grateful to have

53:23

done it. Yes. I feel that

53:25

way about so many things. So you just finished something

53:27

huge, you know? How many, 30 years

53:29

you did? Yeah,

53:31

I think it was 28 years we did the show, did

53:34

one show or another, but I did late night, over and

53:36

over. And then I have

53:38

loved the last three years because I

53:40

love doing the podcast. I love doing

53:42

the travel shows. I'm a male model

53:44

now. It all gives me, well, it's

53:46

possible. It's not true though.

53:48

Well, I know, but there's a possibility. Who gives

53:50

a shit, David? It feels true. David, once you're

53:53

shut, thank you. What are you, the voice of

53:55

reason over here? That's why I'm here. Shut the

53:57

fuck up, David. Fuck it. Susie, come after. After

54:00

David hopping, you fuck. Yeah,

54:02

fuck you, David. Happy to be

54:05

here? You

54:08

sit in so rarely and you sit in

54:10

and suddenly he gets, you're

54:12

just getting blasted. Susie

54:14

Aspen turns to you, what? Shut

54:18

up. But things do come to

54:20

an end. And everything is

54:22

not forever. Marriages end, whatever,

54:24

people die. No, no, we'll

54:26

die. No, I'm not gonna die. Can't

54:30

die, not gonna happen. My

54:32

ego's too big. There's such quiet in the

54:34

room after you said that. I don't care. Okay. Nothing,

54:36

I'm not going anywhere, see? You're a ticking

54:38

time bomb, honestly. It's a shock

54:40

you made it this far. Keep eating the deli,

54:42

Conan. I'm eating the Jewish deli food. Me too,

54:45

it's a deli. I

54:47

am so happy that I ran into

54:49

you in the city and I meant

54:52

what I said. You're a lovely person

54:54

and so much, it's effortless to talk

54:56

to you. And you're

54:58

hilarious, as you know. As are you.

55:01

Well, thank you. And we

55:03

have to have Susie back. Yeah. You

55:05

have to come back. And can I just say,

55:07

on behalf being HUS, I am welcoming you into

55:10

the tribe. Thank you. You will probably-

55:12

The royal will be over next week. Oh

55:14

my God. This has got a lot of... I've

55:18

been to many brices and my favorite joke to

55:21

do was to say, because they always cater them

55:23

to go like, this calamari's terrific and the person

55:25

running it would go, we don't have calamari. And

55:27

I go, ooh. It

55:31

was the shtick I did, but I

55:33

accidentally ate the foreskin. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

55:35

yeah, yeah. I know, Sona looked at

55:37

me with horror, but I did that

55:39

shtick at nine different brices. It killed

55:41

every time. I can't believe I

55:44

looked at you with horror about a

55:46

eating foreskin joke. Oh, come on. Sorry.

55:49

And there's a single one? What? Because

55:51

the calamari, is there one? There's one

55:54

on the plate? The guy just got confused. It was

55:56

a multiple break. Yeah. Or

55:58

the guy didn't get enough. It's the first chop.

56:00

Oh, he did multiple chops. Yeah, the moi didn't get

56:02

enough on the first chop, so he had to keep going

56:05

back. It's so barbaric when you

56:07

think about it. And then

56:09

we're all there and you hear a baby shrieking. And

56:11

then they eat white fish. Suddenly we're eating white fish and then

56:13

the occasional calamari. Yay!

56:16

Don't double dip. Thanks for having me. I win. I

56:19

win. All right, Susie Essman, go with

56:22

God. Thank you for being here. And

56:24

I love you. My pleasure. Anytime.

56:38

Now, Sona, you and your friends just went on a pretty

56:40

cool trip. Tell me about it. Where'd you

56:42

go? We did. We went to Palm

56:44

Springs and we got an Airbnb. And so we had the house

56:46

to ourselves, which was really nice. So we were just

56:48

at your house the other day. I hung out with your kids.

56:50

We had a fun time. I think one of them bit me.

56:53

But I probably deserved it. I

56:56

was noticing your house is really nice. Would you ever

56:58

Airbnb your house? I would. I actually would.

57:00

For some extra cash if nobody was there. Yeah.

57:03

Or maybe if Tack was there. If

57:06

your husband was there, you'd Airbnb the house without telling

57:08

him. Why not? Well, your house is

57:10

very nice. I think people would enjoy it. Yeah. And

57:12

you can make some extra money. That's right. It's

57:15

a great idea. When you're away, your home

57:17

can be an Airbnb. Your home might be

57:19

worth more than you think. Find out how

57:21

much at airbnb.com/host. You

57:33

know, I want to call out the biggest villain I

57:35

know. You know, I'm very particular about the pens that

57:37

I use. Yes. Well,

57:40

people love to take them. And

57:42

then I'll see like Mike Sweeney, our

57:44

head writer, producer, I'll see him later on.

57:46

He's got like nine of them in his

57:48

pocket. Mike, those are mine. And he's like,

57:50

well, I think they're mine. That

57:53

does make him a villain. Yeah. Well,

57:56

I want to say to Mike Sweeney, how do you sleep at

57:58

night? Yeah. I don't want to say to him, but

58:01

I already know the answer he'd probably give me. Mattress

58:04

firm. Yeah, cause Sweeney

58:06

loves mattress firm. Mattress firm will

58:08

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58:10

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58:15

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it happen from mattress firm. See

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58:53

Hey, I heard you met someone special. What

58:56

the? Yep, I

58:59

did. I'm leaving my wife and

59:01

I'm moving in with Monica. That's

59:05

your intro to this? Yeah, and I'm sticking by

59:07

it. Okay. Couple of, not that

59:09

long ago, like two and a half, three

59:11

weeks ago, I leave them in New

59:14

York and I get a text message from the

59:16

very funny comedian Jim Gaffigan. And

59:18

it says, can I call you? Which,

59:22

you know, I know Jim, but it's not like we

59:24

talk a lot or anything. So that, I was a

59:26

little freaked out in the moment. You thought you're in

59:28

trouble or something. Oh, I thought he said, can I

59:30

call you? And then your mind races. And I thought

59:34

maybe Jim needs money. You

59:38

know, what's going on? Did I

59:40

do something? So I call

59:42

him and he basically says

59:45

that the Vatican is interested in

59:47

inviting a bunch of comedians to

59:51

meet with the Pope. So Jim Gaffigan

59:53

was one of the point people

59:55

because he is a good Catholic

59:57

fellow. Stephen Colbert also, was

1:00:00

calling people. So the next thing I know, I think,

1:00:03

well, you have this chance to go

1:00:05

to the Vatican, meet the Pope. This

1:00:07

sounds cool. So I say,

1:00:10

well, I'm in, we gotta do

1:00:12

this, let's go. How much advance notice did you

1:00:14

have? Not a lot, couple of weeks, but not

1:00:16

much. So maybe two and a half,

1:00:18

maybe three weeks, maybe three weeks, maybe- But

1:00:20

you don't need to prep, you just show up. Yeah,

1:00:23

exactly. Every time I've met the Pope,

1:00:25

I haven't prepared. And so anyway,

1:00:29

we get ourselves to Rome. My

1:00:32

wife and I, my son came along as well.

1:00:34

It was fun because we all had kind of

1:00:37

a dinner the night before we got to hang

1:00:39

out, a bunch of us, not all of us,

1:00:41

but a bunch of us, which

1:00:43

was just nice to get to hang with

1:00:45

some of these people and talk about what

1:00:47

is gonna happen. But then the next day

1:00:49

we show up and they said,

1:00:51

be there really early. And I'm

1:00:54

mentioning things that I'm sure Stephen will

1:00:56

have talked about this, and you know,

1:00:58

but my experience was the first thing they said

1:01:00

is be at the Vatican at 6 45. And

1:01:03

I'm like, AM? AM, and I said, 6 45, no. And

1:01:09

also I think the sense I got is

1:01:11

that this Pope gets up really early and

1:01:15

that's immediately, cause I've toyed with the idea

1:01:17

of being Pope. No, okay.

1:01:20

This killed it immediately. He

1:01:22

works out probably in the morning. I think

1:01:24

he works out. I think he's riding his

1:01:26

bicycle all around Rome. He

1:01:29

goes to the market to see which fish is in. In

1:01:35

his Pope hat, yeah. And so

1:01:39

he's, you know, whatever. He's

1:01:41

up really early. And I think we were

1:01:43

not the first thing in his day, other

1:01:45

stuff had already happened. So we all show

1:01:47

up, they take us into the Vatican. And

1:01:50

I mean, I think people know

1:01:53

this by now, but Whoopi Goldberg,

1:01:55

Julia Louis Dreyfus, Stephen Colbert, Tignataro,

1:01:58

David Sedaris. Jimmie

1:02:01

Fallon, myself, Chris Rock,

1:02:03

Mike Birbiglia, Steven

1:02:06

Merchant, who's hilarious. Steven Merchant was there and I

1:02:08

identify with him because he's like six, seven and

1:02:10

mostly leg. And so

1:02:12

we fought each other with our legs, which

1:02:14

was fun. And then the Pope broke it up. Knock

1:02:17

it off with the legs. Got

1:02:19

it out, you two. So

1:02:21

they bring us into this room and then- Is

1:02:24

he even Italian? Yeah, no, you know what it is? He's

1:02:27

from Argentina, but he speaks Italian because

1:02:29

I think he grew up speaking Italian.

1:02:31

So it's okay. It sounds- It's okay

1:02:33

to slander him that way. I'm not

1:02:35

slandering him. I'm doing an impression of what

1:02:38

he sounds like. It was like, I'm making a

1:02:40

pizza pie in Argentina. And so anyway- It's

1:02:42

a mi Mario. It's a mi Mario. And

1:02:44

I was born in Buenos Aires. But

1:02:47

anyway, the Swiss

1:02:50

cards come in. That was the craziest thing.

1:02:52

Swiss cards come in wearing these multi-colored uniforms

1:02:55

that you've seen, yellow and purple. And they

1:02:57

do this whole choreographed thing, which I don't

1:02:59

think was taped or anything, where they have

1:03:01

these long, and

1:03:04

of course Colbert knew the name. He's so Catholic. Is

1:03:06

it a Halbert or a Pike? Yes, Halbert, yeah. I

1:03:08

didn't know the name. And he was like, well, of

1:03:10

course they've got their Halberts. And I was like, how

1:03:12

did you know that? I thought a Halbert was a

1:03:14

nut you could eat. And that's

1:03:16

a Filbert. Anyway, they come in

1:03:18

and they start, they do this

1:03:20

whole choreographed thing with their Halberts,

1:03:22

these basically long sticks that have

1:03:24

like an axe head at the

1:03:26

end. And then all

1:03:29

these dignitaries come in and you're looking

1:03:31

at, some people are wearing these really

1:03:33

elaborate costumes and there are people with

1:03:36

vestments and there are people that are wearing all kinds

1:03:38

of metallic, there's all these chains around their neck. One

1:03:40

guy looked like a sommelier. He

1:03:42

wasn't a sommelier, but he has that thing

1:03:44

where they have a spoon around there. You just see all these

1:03:46

people coming in and out. And then the Pope

1:03:49

comes in and sits down and

1:03:53

he spoke to us in Italian, but they gave us

1:03:55

the text of it. It was really quite lovely what

1:03:57

he said. He talked about how humor brings

1:03:59

people together. and the

1:04:02

importance of it. And it was

1:04:04

very well-written and

1:04:06

very thoughtful, and I thought

1:04:08

kind of interesting. And then you

1:04:10

get in a line and you shake the Pope's hand.

1:04:13

That is very brief, I have to tell you.

1:04:15

And there's no moment, you

1:04:17

know, I never had

1:04:19

any illusions about this, but there might've

1:04:22

been the occasional celebrity there, comedian

1:04:24

who thought the Pope will go like, now

1:04:26

you. He might know

1:04:28

Whoopi, I think, from Sister Act.

1:04:30

Oh, right. But it's

1:04:33

not, yeah. Why, just because she was a nun?

1:04:35

I think, no, and also Whoopi's, I mean, Whoopi's

1:04:37

so iconic, she's been around for a long time,

1:04:39

but I don't think, I had no, not for

1:04:41

a second that I ever think he's gonna go

1:04:43

like, Conan, it's

1:04:45

a good to see, you know, you come

1:04:48

out and you did the thing with the

1:04:50

strings on your hips. The dance, do it

1:04:53

now, do it now, yeah, yeah, that's it.

1:04:55

I never thought, and so it's a quick handshake.

1:04:57

What did you guys exchange any words? I thought

1:04:59

I saw footage of you saying something to him.

1:05:01

I said to him, it's called

1:05:03

Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, and you can get it. Oh no,

1:05:05

oh yeah, I get that call. You're gonna love Matt and

1:05:08

Sona. Yeah. I'm already a fan of them. Yeah, and

1:05:10

I, yeah, and I said, you know,

1:05:15

if it's not Miller Lite, you

1:05:18

know. Nice. Yeah, I did, I mentioned Miller

1:05:21

Lite really quickly, and he went, you know, it's

1:05:23

good, it's not so filling, but it tastes great.

1:05:27

74 calories, or 94 calories. Yeah,

1:05:30

he said, 94 calories? I said, yeah, that's how

1:05:32

it is. And then the Pope said,

1:05:34

and this is a quote, you can see

1:05:36

he's talking, he gets really animated once, when he goes, you

1:05:38

know what, I'm hanging out with my fellas, you know, my

1:05:40

guys. And we're sitting around

1:05:42

and we're shooting the shit, you know, and I went,

1:05:45

yeah, and people were saying, and

1:05:47

he said, your holiness, maybe you should move, and I said,

1:05:49

he's like, no, no, no, it's finally,

1:05:51

I talked to a guy about Militine. But

1:05:54

I'm hanging with my guys, and you crack open

1:05:56

a cold one, and it's like, what is

1:05:58

it, 90, I'm gonna get it. It's like 94 calories. And

1:06:02

I went, jeez, that's really it. And he's like, if

1:06:04

it's not me, then I don't want it. It's

1:06:07

a lot of shit. And I'm like, what am

1:06:10

I gonna have? Some other competing beer? No. And

1:06:13

I'm like, you're starting to sound like triumph of the inside

1:06:15

comic dog. And he goes, yes, yes. Cool,

1:06:17

you suck. So anyway, then

1:06:19

you move on. And then this, I

1:06:22

hope he doesn't get mad at me

1:06:26

for saying this, but I thought it was just a very cool moment.

1:06:29

We sit down, but there's comics from all over the

1:06:31

world and there's a lot of people still filing up.

1:06:34

And our moment's over and there's a long

1:06:36

line. And so we're all sitting there and

1:06:39

Chris Rock is sitting right in front of me. And

1:06:41

I noticed that he has these little earbuds

1:06:43

in and I'm like, he's

1:06:45

listening to something. What's he listening to

1:06:47

something? And I lean over his shoulder

1:06:50

and we're in this beautiful,

1:06:52

gorgeous space with this. I

1:06:54

don't know if it's from the 1500s or this 16. And

1:06:57

it's just like filled with these gorgeous murals

1:07:00

and it's very, everyone's wearing these elaborate

1:07:02

costumes. And we've just had this, we're

1:07:04

meeting this man who's the leader

1:07:07

of this very massive church

1:07:09

all over the world. And you're thinking about

1:07:11

all the significance of it. And I lean

1:07:14

over and I look at Chris as

1:07:16

holding his iPhone in his lap.

1:07:19

And I see that he's listening to the

1:07:21

soundtrack just straight out of Compton. I'm

1:07:25

not kidding. And so I nudge

1:07:27

him and he looks at me and

1:07:29

I point down, really like, really? And

1:07:31

he takes one earbud out and he goes, I

1:07:34

like the juxtaposition. Yeah, I

1:07:36

do too. Between being here

1:07:38

and listening to the straight out of Compton soundtrack.

1:07:40

And I'm like, that's cool. I like that. How

1:07:42

do you think that they chose, was

1:07:45

there a hundred precisely or how many people got

1:07:47

to go, how many comics? Was there a committee

1:07:49

that decided who these people would be? I don't

1:07:51

know how it all worked. I don't know much.

1:07:53

I know that I believe,

1:07:58

when they looked at the final list. from

1:08:00

America, I don't know how many of us there were, but

1:08:02

maybe 15 from America,

1:08:06

something like that. You look at the

1:08:08

list and I don't know how they

1:08:10

came up with those names,

1:08:12

but you look at the list and then

1:08:14

you'd be like, oh, I mean, England, it

1:08:17

was only Stephen

1:08:20

Merchant, I believe. And you're

1:08:22

like, huh, you know, so there were people who

1:08:24

weren't there, I know it's because they were asked

1:08:26

but couldn't come or who knows, I don't know.

1:08:28

But then you look at the different countries and

1:08:31

there were people from Germany, I know this

1:08:33

is a comedian from Switzerland and this is

1:08:35

a comedian from, and then Italy, tons of

1:08:37

comics from Italy. But I have to say,

1:08:39

I was raised very Catholic and my

1:08:42

parents are very Catholic. And so there

1:08:44

was a lot of meaning in going to

1:08:46

Vatican and I did get, they

1:08:48

give you a rosary that's blessed by the Pope, which I'm

1:08:50

gonna give to my mom. Oh. Well,

1:08:53

I'm gonna give her the actual one. It's gonna sell

1:08:55

it to, yeah, gonna sell it. No,

1:08:57

what I was gonna do is I'm gonna keep the real

1:08:59

one and say this was blessed by the Pope. Oh, man.

1:09:02

And so I'll give that to my mom. But I have

1:09:04

to say, one of the most meaningful

1:09:06

things to me was meeting

1:09:09

all these comedians from around the

1:09:11

world. Some of them are standups, some

1:09:13

of them are talk show hosts, some

1:09:15

of them are improvisers. And

1:09:18

I loved

1:09:20

that because there was something

1:09:22

sweet about it. Like we're all

1:09:24

in this kooky, I don't know,

1:09:26

we're on this weird profession. We've

1:09:29

all got something wrong with us, I'm sure. And

1:09:31

we were all together in this beautiful

1:09:34

room. And so I took

1:09:36

a lot of selfies with people

1:09:38

from different countries, met

1:09:40

a lot of comedians from all

1:09:43

over the globe. And

1:09:45

I thought, oh, this might be the part

1:09:48

of this that is getting to me the

1:09:50

most. I thought that was really neat.

1:09:53

And I did, I mean, there were people that were saying like

1:09:55

say hi to Sona and Matt. And I'm like,

1:09:57

what? Who? The Pope? No, not

1:09:59

the Pope. No, the Pope was like, delts on

1:10:01

the mat, it's meal time. I'm

1:10:04

like, please, Pontiff, can we

1:10:07

let this go? No, no, it's just that it doesn't

1:10:09

fill you up. When

1:10:12

I'm sitting with my bishops and we've had

1:10:14

a hard day and I want to relax,

1:10:16

I like to crackle. Hey, we gotta get

1:10:18

paid for this now. I did a riff.

1:10:21

Man, they're getting this for free. But

1:10:23

anyway, it was remarkable. It

1:10:27

was kind of a remarkable thing. And I have to say

1:10:29

in my career, my favorite thing

1:10:31

is when I just pop up places I

1:10:33

shouldn't be. And this was definitely a place

1:10:35

I shouldn't be. And I'm always

1:10:37

looking for those moments where, there's

1:10:40

like a couple of years ago when I

1:10:42

was asked to do something

1:10:44

for the Nobel committee, like some kind

1:10:46

of show. And then they

1:10:48

said, and you can come to the Nobel

1:10:50

Peace Prize, which

1:10:53

is done in a very small room. And I

1:10:55

sat there with James and other guys and my

1:10:57

camera crew and we quickly put suits on them.

1:11:01

And these guys, I don't think James had ever

1:11:04

been in his suit before. And we're all sitting

1:11:06

there like practically in the front row watching someone

1:11:08

get the Nobel Peace Prize. And

1:11:11

people watching it on C-SPAN or wherever they watch

1:11:13

these things, it would be like panting across the

1:11:15

room. And I had people say like, what? Why

1:11:18

are you there? You're the Forrest Gump. Yeah,

1:11:21

I know. My favorite thing is to be

1:11:23

the goofy Forrest Gump that's showing

1:11:25

up places I shouldn't be. But anyway, my

1:11:28

thanks to the Vatican for having

1:11:30

me. And that was quite

1:11:32

an experience. And yeah,

1:11:35

that's all I got. God bless

1:11:37

you. You know

1:11:40

what? That now means more to me than anything that

1:11:42

happened. Thank you. Thank you. A

1:11:44

blessing from this Satanist right here. Conan

1:11:49

O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien,

1:11:51

Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorley, produced

1:11:54

by me, Matt Gorley. Executive produced by

1:11:56

Adam Sacks, Nick Leo, and Jeff Ross

1:11:58

at Team Coco. and Colin Anderson

1:12:01

and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song

1:12:03

by The White Stripes. Incidental music by

1:12:05

Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our

1:12:11

supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our

1:12:13

associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering

1:12:15

and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan

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