0:00

One of the number one questions that

0:00

we get inside of my big program,

0:03

breakthrough is all geared around hiring.

0:07

And so hiring, I feel like is a very

0:07

overwhelming thing for most business

0:10

owners, mostly because when we start

0:10

our business, We don't think that we're

0:13

going to hire, we really think this is

0:13

a side hustle and then it turned into

0:16

this big business and now we've actually

0:16

got to start getting other people in.

0:20

So that way we could take vacations,

0:20

prepare for long-term leaves

0:23

or really scale the business. And so I am bringing on one of

0:24

my all time, favorite HR experts.

0:29

I've actually worked with him

0:29

personally, and he is just incredible.

0:32

He's been a guest expert in my group

0:32

coaching program, breakthrough.

0:35

His name is Matt Tipton and he owns YHR.

0:38

He's incredible today's

0:38

episode I will say is probably.

0:42

I can tell you right now going to be the

0:42

most popular episode I will ever record.

0:47

And the reason why is, because what he's

0:47

about to answer for you guys in regards of

0:51

HR, he's going to talk about compliance.

0:53

what. You know the difference between the

0:54

employees versus contractors, why

0:57

this information is so important,

0:57

what exempt and non-exempt means,

1:00

what it means to actually pay people. What are those minimum thresholds?

1:04

Literally, we dive into so much that I

1:04

think I ended up having to write out two

1:07

to three pages of notes just for you guys.

1:10

And so I really recommend that you

1:10

listen in, if you need to come back,

1:14

save this episode, if you really

1:14

liked it, and you want Matt back on,

1:17

please reach out and let me know. I really hope that you have a pen

1:19

and paper because there's a lot

1:22

of stuff that you're going to want

1:22

to write down for today's episode.

2:21

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to yet another episode. I'm so excited because I am going

2:23

to bring on an amazing guest today.

2:26

You can't see him cause you can

2:26

only hear us, but he looks like

2:29

he's about to go to Hawaii. And I'm like all about this life

2:29

because you know, as everyone listening

2:33

here that I love my vacations. So he's making me want to

2:35

go to somewhere tropical.

2:37

So thank you for that. But I wanted to give a huge

2:38

warm welcome to Matt Tipton.

2:41

So I've actually worked with Matt

2:41

myself at my, my company as well.

2:44

Back, oh my gosh, I think it's almost been

2:44

like two, maybe two and a half years ago.

2:48

I was introduced to him by Ben Day, which

2:48

most of you know exactly who Ben Day is.

2:52

And so he introduced me to Matt and

2:52

he's just been such an incredible

2:55

asset, not only for myself when it

2:55

came to the hiring, but also like the

2:59

compliance and the things that are

2:59

kind of scary as a business owner.

3:03

But also he's been such a great asset for

3:03

our group coaching program breakthrough.

3:07

He's come in and supported our

3:07

students as a guest expert.

3:10

So without further ado, Matt,

3:10

cause I can talk all day,

3:12

every day about your greatness. Please feel free to introduce yourself.

3:16

Will do. And Alyssa, just thank

3:17

you so much for having me.

3:20

I love your energy. I can provide you with the

3:21

inspiration to go to Hawaii.

3:23

That's great. I will feed off of your excitement.

3:27

So yes, as you mentioned, so Matt

3:27

Tipton I, uh, own and operate.

3:31

A HR consulting firm based out of

3:31

Oklahoma city, but we, uh, support

3:35

all across the country different

3:35

businesses, small and midsize.

3:39

And to your point, we

3:39

specialize in compliance.

3:42

It's that world of, you don't know

3:42

what you don't know when it comes to

3:45

employees and that can be a scary place,

3:45

I think for a lot of business owners.

3:49

And it really doesn't matter if. If you've had your business for

3:50

several years, or you're just

3:53

getting started you know, things are

3:53

always changing in that landscape.

3:57

And so it's our job to stay on top of

3:57

it and to educate I've been doing HR.

4:03

So that's, uh, I'm one of those rare breeds. I got my degree in HR.

4:07

About close to about 20 years ago. And I literally have done it ever since.

4:11

And, YHR, we're going into our 10th

4:11

and 11th year, of being a practice.

4:17

So it's exciting times. Wow.

4:19

I didn't know it was that long. That's amazing.

4:22

Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. It's exciting. Yeah.

4:24

We're, we're definitely

4:24

blessed and thankful.

4:26

Absolutely. I can only imagine how much

4:27

has changed in 10 years.

4:31

For HR, like every day, I feel

4:31

like things are always changing.

4:35

Absolutely. And that continues to be that way.

4:38

I mean, we're, we're not sure we've

4:38

seen the department of labor just,

4:42

you know, it seems like every week

4:42

they're rolling out, you know, new

4:44

guidelines or new suggestions and

4:44

just trying to stay on top of it.

4:49

Absolutely. And how do you, I'm just really

4:50

curious just for myself, because I'm

4:52

like, my process brain is like, man,

4:52

that must be such a pain because you

4:56

have to constantly stay up with it. Where do you guys go as like the

4:58

HR like company, where do you guys

5:02

go for like your information to be

5:02

able to then therefore translate it?

5:06

Yeah. And I mean, absolutely.

5:09

We're definitely not just, scouring

5:09

all the different Department of

5:12

Labor websites across 50 states.

5:14

so we do have tools very similar

5:14

to, I'm sure, industry specific,

5:20

you know, go to type places, but we

5:20

certainly subscribe to legal software.

5:24

We subscribe to the

5:24

Society for HR management.

5:27

And so every time that there is

5:27

anything that's even a perspective

5:32

law change that's going to take

5:32

place that could impact employers

5:35

and employees, we're really far out

5:35

in front, uh, which is nice because

5:39

we're able to take that information. And I think this is key for

5:41

especially your listeners.

5:43

I hope they hear this, that not

5:43

everything applies to every business.

5:48

Yep. And so. There is so much inundation

5:49

that takes place.

5:52

We're able to at least filter that,

5:52

you know, look at our client list and

5:56

say, okay, this is who it applies to. This is who it doesn't.

5:58

And a lot of times it's still reaching

5:58

out to all of our client base so

6:03

that because they're going to hear

6:03

about it and we don't want them

6:05

thinking that we forgot about him. It's like, no, you know, you're

6:07

going to hear about this law

6:10

change, but it doesn't apply to you. And here's why.

6:12

Maybe you don't have the

6:12

right number of employees yet.

6:16

Or you may not ever. And so you just need to

6:17

put that on the shelf.

6:19

You know, that's just, that's just noise. It's going to get in your

6:21

way of doing business. Whereas others it's like, okay, you

6:23

know, you're a growing business.

6:26

You're going to hit that threshold. Let's prepare for it and let

6:28

you know what that looks like.

6:31

I like that. I think it's so funny because this

6:32

morning, not even joking with you.

6:34

One of our breakthroughs today

6:34

was talking about is it on us?

6:38

As bookkeepers and accountants to

6:38

stay on top of telling our clients

6:41

about changes with like for their

6:41

instance was, QuickBooks online.

6:45

And for me, a lot of people

6:45

are like, no, it's not on us.

6:48

It's not on us. Like that's their job to like, look at

6:49

the emails from, you know, the software.

6:53

And I kind of went against what everybody

6:53

was saying, which was just like, But

6:57

if you've got the update and you find

6:57

that it might be necessary for some of

7:00

your clients and it doesn't hurt to just

7:00

send that update, to just send that,

7:04

like, Hey, just so there's awareness.

7:06

Like, for example, the BOI is a really

7:06

big thing for I don't know if you've

7:09

done that process with your business. It's like a whole thing, right?

7:12

You have to register by certain day and then you're fine. Like 500 every day.

7:15

Like it's crazy. And I might even like be saying it wrong,

7:16

but so nobody quote me, don't come after

7:21

me, but what I'm I like that you guys are

7:21

putting forward the parts where it's like,

7:27

Hey, we're going to loop everyone in. And if it's going to affect

7:28

you, we're going to help you. Because I think that that's where

7:30

in the accounting space, I do like

7:33

to be that resource for our clients,

7:33

even though like, yeah, people

7:37

say it's tedious, but it's like,

7:37

That's why you need to have a team.

7:39

So you're not researching it,

7:39

put it on someone else's plate.

7:43

It's so true. And, you know, HR, I think can sometimes

7:44

be a little bit notorious for being a very

7:48

reactive style for a lot of employers,

7:48

even, even, even on the corporate

7:54

HR side, HR can be very reactive.

7:56

So something happens, an event takes

7:56

place, an audit takes place, you

8:01

know, there's some sort of lawsuit

8:01

that takes place and all of a sudden

8:03

you are reacting to that situation.

8:06

And you typically find gaps

8:06

in your processes as a result.

8:09

And it's like, okay, we need to fix this. And so, you know, when we started and

8:11

I, you know, kicked off YHR you're still

8:16

going to have those reactive moments,

8:16

but we want to build ourselves and we

8:20

want to be education first proactive

8:20

HR so that we're as much out in front

8:26

as possible and we're educating. You know, I mean, it's, it's not often,

8:27

but sometimes that we educate our

8:32

employers and say, Hey, this is, this is

8:32

a risk and you need to be aware of it.

8:36

And sometimes as a business owner,

8:36

they say, you know what, I'm going

8:39

to take the risk and that's okay.

8:42

As long as you're informed and you

8:42

understand, you know, what's good

8:45

risk and what's bad risk and what that

8:45

could lead to, what that looks like.

8:48

Yeah. And we want to be that. Yeah, and you want to be that those people

8:50

who are like almost the liaison between

8:54

the information and the jargon because

8:54

for me, if you put that, sometimes when

8:58

you, when we have talked and you're like,

8:58

you say the things that have to be inside

9:01

the statement, I'm like, I don't even

9:01

know what you're saying, but I know that

9:04

you're like, this is really important

9:04

that you put it in there, but you also

9:06

say in a way where it's like, this is

9:06

going to sound like, Crap, but it's not.

9:10

It's very important that you

9:10

put this key sentence key.

9:13

That's right. You know, whatever that is. And you're like, we have got to do it.

9:16

But here's what I'm trying to tell

9:16

you in like Alyssa Plain terms,

9:20

which I've always appreciated

9:20

because you don't like speak over.

9:22

And I think a lot of people sometimes

9:22

forget that you're so well versed in

9:26

your space that sometimes we forget

9:26

that we're talking to people who are

9:29

like, what are you talking about? And that's fair.

10:38

I mean, I, certainly appreciate that

10:38

when I'm You know, obviously talk

10:41

it to whether it's my attorney or my

10:41

bookkeeper or CPA that they make it

10:47

in a way that I understand, because

10:47

that's an area that I don't know.

10:49

And I need to be informed. Exactly.

10:52

So I think you segued beautifully

10:52

without really recognizing into the

10:56

conversation, I think is the biggest

10:56

in the space that I see a lot, which

10:59

is compliance, So one big, I would

10:59

say probably mistake in our industry.

11:04

And I'm sure it's not just our

11:04

industry is that a lot of people

11:08

just think that they get to define,

11:08

oh, it's going to be a contractor.

11:11

Oh, it's just going to be an employee. I get this all the time

11:12

inside of our breakthrough.

11:14

Right? So like, that's why we brought you in. Cause I was like, I can't tell you

11:16

guys what to do because it's based off

11:19

certain compliance rules, regulations.

11:22

So I would love for you to kind of blow

11:22

the minds of people who are wanting

11:26

to hire to just familiarize them with

11:26

the importance of this conversation.

11:31

No, that's spot on. It is, it's extremely important

11:33

and for a couple of reasons.

11:36

So, right now, if you were to go

11:36

out and just do your own search

11:40

on the, the latest legal update

11:40

related to the employer landscape.

11:46

Regardless of what state you're in,

11:46

whoever is putting on that seminar,

11:50

if they're speaking to employers,

11:50

one of the hottest topics that's

11:53

gonna come up is misclassification.

11:56

Of employees and independent contractors.

11:58

It's one thing that for years

11:58

has been tracked by the IRS.

12:03

And they have their, their testing. And we'll, I'll talk a

12:04

little bit about that. But now the Department of Labor

12:06

has jumped in and created their

12:10

testing that goes into this. And so what we're talking about for your

12:11

listeners is that, okay, you know, you're

12:15

at that point, you need to hire somebody.

12:18

One of the defaults that we

12:18

have is that we say, Oh, we'll

12:21

just make them a contractor. We don't have to worry about taxes.

12:24

You know, they'll get paid

12:24

exactly what we agree to and

12:27

what that rate is going to be. And, you know, wash our

12:29

hands of it and we're good.

12:31

And that's just not how it works. There are regulations in place that

12:33

define what a contractor is and

12:37

that define what an employee is.

12:39

And the most simplest way that I can

12:39

put it in the way that the IRS looks at

12:43

it as well as the Department of Labor

12:43

is we call it the behavioral test.

12:47

And what we're looking for is

12:47

control, controlling the behavior.

12:52

I always like to use the example

12:52

of somebody that mows your lawn.

12:57

You know, you pay somebody to mow your lawn. Do you provide them with the equipment?

13:01

Do you tell them what time to show up? And you know, no, you don't.

13:04

You, you pay a lawn company and they show

13:04

up and they mow your lawn when they fit it

13:10

into their schedule and they get it done.

13:12

And then they send you an invoice. Now, if you own an apartment complex,

13:14

that was your business and you had

13:18

a groundskeeper and you kept the

13:18

tools to take care of the lawn and

13:23

you know, in your shed that would be

13:23

an employee because those are your

13:26

tools and you employ the lawnskeeper.

13:29

And they come in and they,

13:29

they take care of the grounds.

13:33

And so that's what we're talking about.

13:35

And a lot of times, especially with,

13:35

we'll bring it back to bookkeeping and

13:40

as some of your listener base that's

13:40

a common mistake and that, you know,

13:44

are you really hiring a contractor

13:44

that owns their own equipment that

13:48

really runs their own business? Are they solely working for you?

13:51

Are they working for other people as well? And if you're someone that's growing

13:53

a business, you're like, well, I don't

13:56

want them to work for other people. Okay. Well, you've pretty much summed it

13:58

up right there that you're hiring an

14:02

employee and not a contractor, and that

14:02

comes to licenses, that you subscribe

14:08

to, that you allow them access to. In other words, they don't carry their

14:10

own license for whatever you know,

14:13

tools, software that you're using. These are all things that

14:15

factor into that control space.

14:19

And, and you have to weigh both

14:19

sides because when you look at

14:23

misclassification and penalties, there's

14:23

a reason that the conversation never

14:27

goes away in all these legal seminars.

14:31

It's because it's one of the largest

14:31

audits that takes place for employers.

14:35

it's very easily detected.

14:37

you decide that you're not, you're going

14:37

to part ways with one of your contractors.

14:41

And a lot of times those contractors

14:41

don't really fully understand what it is.

14:46

you know, they just know they're

14:46

getting paid, but all of a sudden

14:48

they're not getting paid anymore. What do they do? They file unemployment.

14:51

Well, since you paid them as a contractor,

14:51

they didn't pay into unemployment.

14:55

There's nothing there. And so what happens is that kicks over

14:56

into that Department of Labor space.

15:01

It says, Hey, what's going on? And it starts opening up

15:02

that door into your business.

15:05

Where again, there can be audits

15:05

and penalties and back pay and

15:09

taxes and things that catches up

15:09

to you that you had no idea about.

15:13

And so it's just, it's real important.

15:15

You know, this is also a space that

15:15

the regulations, they don't loosen.

15:21

They only get more strict. And I think that's important.

15:24

Yeah. So in other words, every time that we

15:25

see another rollout, when it comes to

15:29

independent contractors versus employees,

15:29

very rarely, if ever we seen something

15:34

come into play that makes it easier.

15:36

For somebody to be a contractor

15:36

versus employee whenever

15:39

they're working for somebody. Typically it's, it's again,

15:40

like the Department of Labor

15:43

was the latest to jump in. It's always been an IRS

15:45

issue for the most part.

15:47

They say, you know, we want to play ball too. And so they came out with

15:49

their regulations and for the

15:51

most part they're the same.

15:54

It's all about control and who has it.

15:56

that's what we have to look at as

15:56

business owners and make sure that

15:59

we stay on the right side of that. Yeah, and I, I think that the one part

16:01

that I can even say for myself, because

16:06

going through this process of, you

16:06

know, the first person I ever hired

16:08

was one of fail, not because of them.

16:11

It was all because of me because

16:11

I did not know what I was doing.

16:13

But the first couple of hires I

16:13

made were always like, Oh, they're

16:17

a contractor because I want to

16:17

pay them a set fee in my mind.

16:20

It was always like, This weird

16:20

justification of why I was going to

16:23

be able to pay them that specific

16:23

way, AKA meant contractor, AKA meant I

16:28

don't want to pay into employee taxes

16:28

because I don't want to have to do that.

16:32

And then over time, I think it was

16:32

when I was like starting to rapid hire.

16:35

That's when I started reaching

16:35

out to you guys specifically

16:38

for workflow queen at that time. And I remember just

16:39

being really overwhelmed. And I think I got on a

16:41

call with you and Ashley. I know Ashley, she still

16:43

works with you, right? I love her.

16:45

She does. Yeah. Love her. Um, so we were, I remember us all on

16:47

the call and I was like, wait, what?

16:51

And I can't even decide

16:51

between salary and hourly.

16:54

Like once you guys like concluded

16:54

the information about employ, I'm

16:58

sorry, employee versus contractor. It was then the question of, And I

16:59

thought that I got control over that.

17:03

So I did have a question that I know

17:03

is going to come up for other people.

17:06

Where is the drawing line that

17:06

we're allowed to, in the case of a

17:10

contractor, drawing line where we

17:10

say they're in our QBO because we

17:14

have to add them to it, or we have to

17:14

add them to our last pass, which is

17:18

where we store all of our passwords. Where does it become actual control

17:19

versus like, we're just giving

17:24

them the access that they need

17:24

in order to do the necessary job.

17:27

And the other part of that

17:27

question is the process, because

17:31

I'm really process driven. I want someone to follow a process.

17:34

Where does that line get drawn? Yeah.

17:37

That's a really tough thing to answer. And obviously go ahead and

17:38

put this and I'll go ahead and

17:41

put this disclaimer out there. I'm not an attorney, so I want to make

17:42

that very clear to your listeners.

17:45

but this is not out of our

17:45

realm and territory either.

17:48

So when we talk about you

17:48

know, weighing the scales.

17:51

The scales of, and that, and that's

17:51

truly part of it, you know, is giving

17:55

somebody access who, again, they're

17:55

running their own business, they're

18:00

doing their own thing, but I want to

18:00

utilize them for my business, which

18:05

requires me to give them access, they're

18:05

using their own tools, they represent

18:10

themselves, they're just going to be

18:10

specifically doing these deliverables

18:15

for me, which requires them entry into.

18:18

Fill in the blank, you know,

18:18

your QBO, whatever that may be.

18:21

and in our world, I look at that

18:21

and I was like, yeah, that's

18:23

completely reasonable, right? There's still an independent contractor

18:25

due to all the other factors outside of

18:30

this one, you know, point of entry that

18:30

they need to have access to in order to

18:33

do what I'm contracting them to do for me.

18:36

Gotcha. So it's more like what I'm

18:36

also hearing is talk to an HR

18:40

professional, but maybe legal. Yeah, I think if, know, keep in mind,

18:41

we, we have a lot of, employment

18:45

attorneys that we work with. We have good relationships with,

18:46

and certainly if there's anything

18:50

that is on the border, For sure.

18:52

Let's just not not clean cut. And even then legal is going to tell

18:54

you, you know, very similarly, you know,

18:58

some of the same stuff that it's like,

18:58

okay, this is our best advice from what

19:02

we've seen, because it's all about past

19:02

precedent, you know, have we worked with

19:05

somebody that's done the exact same thing? And how did it work out for them?

19:09

And and that's very true in as

19:09

much as it is in the legal space.

19:12

And I'll let them speak to that. But in the HR space as well.

19:15

It's like, what have we

19:15

Actually seen happen to our

19:18

own clients and past precedent. You know, should there have

19:20

been, you know, some sort of an

19:22

audit for, for one of our clients

19:22

in that exact same scenario.

19:25

So definitely experience helps for sure.

19:28

And what we've seen. Yeah. I always recommend like when that

19:29

conversation comes up, especially

19:32

because breakthrough, that's where

19:32

we teach hiring and I have to be very

19:35

clear, even on our own sales page

19:35

that we do, we are not HR consultants.

19:38

We are not here to give you legal advice.

19:41

We get asked all the time. Do you, you know, give contracts? I'm like, nope, because

19:43

my lawyer told me not to. Right.

19:46

I don't want to be, she's like,

19:46

do not be liable for that.

19:49

They can go hire someone. So what I've done is connected with you,

19:50

do what my lawyers brought you both on

19:55

actually as guest experts so that people

19:55

knew how to connect with you guys and

19:58

work with you or get support from you. I pride myself in being that person who's

20:00

come kind of like the bridge between

20:03

the gap of like, I may not be able to

20:03

support y'all on everything, but I can

20:07

definitely do with someone who can which

20:07

has been really cool to like experience.

20:11

But another thing that comes up a lot

20:11

for this conversation is in our space.

20:16

Specifically, there's a lot

20:16

of people who like to pay.

20:19

their team members in different ways. So obviously there's employee,

20:21

obviously there's contractors, but

20:23

one of the big things is I'm just

20:23

going to pay someone per client that

20:26

they do a certain percentage, right? So like a percentage of the fee, if

20:28

the fee is a hundred dollars, they

20:30

pay them 30 percent of the fee. So, you know, the team members making

20:32

30 per client that they finish.

20:35

A lot of people justify it by, you know,

20:35

it makes them more efficient because then

20:38

they could, if they can get their work

20:38

faster, they can have more capacity for

20:41

more clients, therefore make more money. Sure.

20:44

And, I'm wondering if that's, that's,

20:44

is that, I wouldn't say okay, but is

20:49

that something that when someone is

20:49

paying their contractor, they're free

20:52

to essentially pay them as they please?

20:55

If it truly is a contractor, and so a

20:55

1099 based agreement that is, yes, I

21:01

mean, you basically are, you know, you're

21:01

coming to terms on this is how because

21:05

that goes back to the behavioral test. Part of the behavioral test is the

21:07

financial test, and the financial test

21:11

talks about profit and loss, and so

21:11

as a contractor, I'm responsible for

21:16

if I make money or I don't make money. So, you know, if it takes, if I agree

21:18

to a certain fee percentage with you

21:23

of 30 percent of the fee it's to my

21:23

incentive, right, to get that done as

21:28

quickly as possible because that, my own

21:28

time that I'm spending to do my work.

21:34

Right. It's going to be worth more

21:34

if I'm able to do it faster.

21:37

And so again, I'm in control of the

21:37

profit and loss of the work that I do.

21:42

Does that make sense? Yeah. You actually like, just, it kind of

21:43

clicked in my mind when you explained

21:46

it in the way that you did, where you

21:46

said that ultimately it's like they

21:50

get to control it because if they can

21:50

control their speed, therefore they're a

21:53

contractor because they can control that. That's a really interesting perspective.

21:57

Cause it just seriously, just like clicked. I'm like, how many years has

21:58

it taken for things to click? Yeah.

22:01

Here we are. I get it.

22:03

Absolutely. Yeah. It's too much. So what I'm hearing though on the

22:05

other end of that is employers,

22:08

or I'm sorry, employees. So employees in this case, in

22:09

that scenario may not get that

22:13

type of opportunity essentially.

22:16

Yeah. So that's very much so. . I mean, there's definitely some

22:18

nuances and, you know, we can get

22:21

creative, but there's something

22:21

that you can't get creative on

22:24

is, is mm-Hmm, a couple of things.

22:26

so we've determined that

22:26

they're not a contractor and

22:28

they're going to be an employee. Well, now that you move over to the

22:30

employee space, we've entered into

22:33

the realm of Department of Labor. And the Department of Labor, when

22:35

it comes to employee status, is

22:38

governed by the Fair Labor Standards

22:38

Act, so FLSA for your listeners.

22:42

And underneath that umbrella,

22:42

they dictate, if somebody

22:46

is exempt or not exempt. And when we say the word exempt,

22:48

what we're actually saying is

22:51

they are exempt from overtime.

22:53

So, depending on where you work

22:53

and what state you're in, you

22:57

have to go by those overtime laws.

22:59

For our purposes, the majority

22:59

of the states that are out there.

23:03

it's based on a seven day cycle in a

23:03

40 hour work week, so 40 hours within

23:09

seven days, whether that's Monday

23:09

through Sunday or Sunday through

23:12

Saturday, however you set it up, you

23:12

have to establish your seven day cycle.

23:17

And so when we say exempt and

23:17

non exempt, what we're saying is

23:20

again, you're exempt from overtime,

23:20

meaning you can pay them on salary.

23:25

Okay, and I'll talk a little

23:25

bit about that in a second.

23:27

So let's just say they're non exempt. So non exempt meaning that they're paid

23:29

hourly and they are eligible for overtime.

23:35

So time and a half for anybody that

23:35

works over 40 hours in a seven day cycle

23:39

that you've established as a business. That is the benchmark.

23:44

So when we talk about percentages,

23:44

and we talk about how else we can

23:48

pay them, you still have to be able

23:48

to show the Department of Labor,

23:52

should you be audited, that they

23:52

still made more than minimum wage

23:57

for the hours that they put in. Okay, so there's still a math

23:58

equation that exists in there.

24:02

So it's always, it really just comes down

24:02

to hours paid for hours worked and you

24:08

can't pay somebody less than minimum wage. And we know that, you know, their

24:09

minimum wage is different by state and

24:14

some states is different by county or

24:14

city or township or whatever it may be.

24:19

So you have to be aware of that as well. Now most, I'm sure, of your

24:20

listeners, I mean, if you're paying

24:24

fair market wages, you're not going

24:24

to, you know, come close to that.

24:27

But, if you have some of those

24:27

creative ways that you've come up

24:30

with on how you're going to compensate

24:30

your employees, if you can't clearly

24:34

show hours paid for hours worked is

24:34

always over minimum wage, you need

24:38

to take a look at your pay structure

24:38

so that you don't get in trouble.

24:41

You know, from the

24:41

Department of Labor on that.

24:44

Now let's go back to

24:44

exempt and non exempt.

24:46

So, I think this is a big topic

24:46

for especially bookkeeping firms.

24:52

bookkeepers, unless they're managing other

24:52

bookkeepers, And when we say managing

24:56

other people, bookkeepers, I mean,

24:56

actually having control over their work.

24:59

So supervising them, you know, doing

24:59

performance evaluations over them.

25:04

You have discretion to fire that

25:04

bookkeeper that works for you.

25:08

So you have a certain amount of control

25:08

over the end product, unless you're

25:13

doing those duties, typically the

25:13

bookkeeper themselves, that's punching

25:17

in, punching out, those are non exempt

25:17

employees and should be paid hourly.

25:23

Interesting. Okay. And the Department of Labor doesn't

25:25

care if you overpay somebody, they

25:29

just care if you underpay somebody. At

25:31

least pay them X number. Exactly.

25:34

Gotcha. Exactly. So that's how that works.

25:37

So we just want to make sure that our

25:37

bookkeepers that are working for us,

25:41

that are, they're punching in, they're

25:41

punching out and we're following any

25:44

of those, you know, specific state

25:44

regulations that applies to where we live.

25:49

and for the most part, again,

25:49

It's going to be, the 40 hour work

25:53

week within a seven day cycle. Now for your California listeners out

25:55

there, overtime's based on the day.

25:59

So eight hours in an actual working day. and so it does get a, it's a

26:01

little bit more complicated, but.

26:05

Yeah, for the most part, that's

26:05

that's really where everybody is

26:07

going to fall and you just need

26:07

to make sure that it's always your

26:11

responsibility as the employer. The burden of proof is on you, which

26:12

is why again, you need to have a good

26:16

time tracking system to make sure that

26:16

you can accurately show that you did.

26:21

You know, fairly pay, uh, your employees.

26:24

I love that. Well, everyone already knows that

26:24

I'm obsessed with Clockify so y'all

26:27

already gonna know that I'm gonna

26:27

talk that Clockify is our go-to

26:32

.

26:32

Yeah, and I would say especially, you

26:35

bookkeeping firms, that have come,

26:35

through your class that have hit us up.

26:39

You know, we've seen a lot I think a lot

26:39

of people wanting to do the right thing.

26:43

And most people are tracking time

26:43

anyway, because they're, it's being

26:47

built maybe back out to a client. So they need to see exactly, you know, how

26:49

much time they're spending on a particular

26:53

client that they're working for. But again, You know, we still need to

26:55

have an accurate record of the totality

26:59

of the time spent for that employee.

27:01

Yeah. I love that. I bet you a million dollars.

27:04

You have a lot of keepers and accountants

27:04

reaching out mostly because we are

27:09

the type of industry too that is so

27:09

about compliance because we're so

27:14

used to following the rules for our

27:14

clients that you probably have that

27:17

uptick of like, I just, Matt, you tell

27:17

me, what do I need to have in place?

27:21

What do I need to do? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because they're going to listen more,

27:22

well, other industries might be a little

27:25

bit more risky sometimes, but I feel

27:25

like we have a different type of brain.

27:28

Like, you know what I mean? Where we're like, we don't want them

27:29

coming knocking on our door, like the IRS.

27:33

No, and that's very true.

27:36

That's very true. And I, I, I think, and we

27:36

appreciate that obviously.

27:40

So it's nice to have that. And you're right.

27:42

There are some industries and I'm sure

27:42

they're clients of some of your clients,

27:46

that know exactly what that risk is

27:46

game looks like and where they're more

27:51

tolerant in certain places than others.

27:53

Yeah, definitely. I did want to go ahead.

27:57

I think this is, if this is all right,

27:57

real quick, I want to talk about exempt.

28:01

So for those of you out there

28:01

that are listening a couple of,

28:04

we talked about how the laws are,

28:04

there's always something changing.

28:08

I do want to be very clear. So one of the biggest changes

28:09

that we've seen in many years,

28:12

is for exempt employees.

28:14

So for our purposes, again.

28:17

By definition, exempt

28:17

means exempt from overtime.

28:19

So for most of you out there,

28:19

when you hear that term, you're

28:22

thinking, Oh, I pay them on salary. So let's just call it $40,000 a year.

28:26

So let's say you pay

28:26

somebody $40,000 a year.

28:29

Well, most of us are familiar

28:29

that when we pay somebody

28:32

hourly, there's a minimum wage. What some of us may not be familiar

28:34

with is that when you pay somebody

28:37

on salary and they are exempt, that's

28:37

key, there's also a minimum wage.

28:42

And for several years, that minimum

28:42

wage has been 35, 568 a year.

28:48

So annualized, that's what that number is.

28:51

And so again, just like by law, you have

28:51

to pay somebody at least minimum wage.

28:56

On hourly, you have to

28:56

do the same on salary.

28:59

So that is a big audit point. So for those listeners, if you're paying

29:01

somebody on salary, and they're working

29:04

a full time schedule, so 40 hours a week

29:04

it needs to come out to that number.

29:09

And if it doesn't, you're below that

29:09

threshold, then yes, you're, you could

29:13

be in violation of a wage an hour. Claim to the Department of Labor.

29:17

Okay. Now what's the big change that I'm talking

29:18

about is that that minimum threshold, 35,

29:24

568 a year is going up July 1st, 2024.

29:28

So based on whenever you're listening

29:28

to this July 1st, 2024, that minimum

29:32

threshold goes up to 43, 888.

29:38

So if you're our example, if you're

29:38

paying somebody $40,000, Annualize

29:43

as an exempt employee, then you're

29:43

going to have to make a decision.

29:47

And the decision is you either raise

29:47

them to that minimum threshold,

29:51

which is $43,888, or you convert

29:51

them back to a non exempt employee

29:59

and pay them that hourly equivalent.

30:02

To $40,000. And now they're eligible for overtime.

30:04

But for some of you, they

30:04

may not work overtime.

30:07

They may always work, you know,

30:07

a pretty strict 40 hour schedule.

30:10

So instead of adding more to your

30:10

bottom line cost wise from an expense

30:14

standpoint, it may make more sense

30:14

to go that direction, but again,

30:18

you're going to have to track hours. You still have to be able to show

30:19

that they didn't work 41 hours

30:22

and you owe them time and a half. So I want to be very clear about that.

30:26

And then the last point on this, that

30:26

minimum threshold so that the Department

30:30

of Labor, when they released their

30:30

regulations, decided to stair step it.

30:34

So July 1st, 2024, it goes to $43,888.

30:42

On January 1st, 2025,

30:42

this is the big jump.

30:45

It's going to go up to $58,656.

30:49

So we'll just round it up

30:49

and call it $59,000 a year.

30:53

So if you think about

30:53

where we're at today.

30:55

Which is, you know, $35,500

30:55

going up to $59,000.

31:00

There's a lot of businesses that can't. It's big.

31:03

I think the Department of Labor estimated

31:03

that 3 million workers and they don't

31:09

look at it as in 3 million workers

31:09

are going to get this massive raise.

31:12

What they're saying is about 3

31:12

million workers across the US

31:15

are no longer going to be exempt. So they'll go, they'll all be not

31:17

exempt and be now eligible for overtime,

31:22

which is the whole point of the law. Like, this is this is what they're

31:24

trying to get to is they're trying to

31:27

make sure that you know, everybody is

31:27

keeping up with inflation and that.

31:31

You know, if they're not making at

31:31

least this as a minimum on salary

31:36

then they need to be hourly and they

31:36

need to be paid time and a half.

31:40

They look at it as a positive. A lot of times we look at that as a

31:41

negative, as an employee saying, Oh

31:45

man, I'm no longer going to be a salary.

31:47

Now I'm going to be hourly. The government looks

31:48

at it the opposite way. They're like, no, this is a good thing.

31:51

You're now going to get paid for time

31:51

that You know, maybe you didn't get

31:55

paid for before and you're going to get

31:55

time and a half, but regardless how we

31:58

feel about it that's where it's headed.

32:01

for your listeners, again, just

32:01

depending on when you are listening to

32:04

this podcast it's very possible because

32:04

July 1st is not here as of me talking.

32:10

Yeah, but it's coming. It's coming soon but there could always

32:11

be an injunction that gets filed by

32:16

a judge that, you know, the numbers,

32:16

you know, could change but as of right

32:21

now, so we're one month away, we are

32:21

currently prepping all of our clients

32:25

and we're doing spreadsheets on, you

32:25

know, who's currently below the new

32:29

threshold and we need to make decisions.

32:31

You know, is this an employee that

32:31

works 60 hours a week regularly?

32:35

Are we willing to pay 20 hours

32:35

of overtime or does it make

32:38

more sense to give them a raise? And so that's the kind of

32:39

strategic conversations that

32:42

we're having with employers. On, you know, which direction do we go?

32:46

Are we going to keep them exempt or

32:46

are they going to move to non exempt?

32:49

And that, just as a question, I know

32:49

that me and you recently talked because

32:53

I was hiring my personal assistant and

32:53

we got on a call about, you know, and

32:57

then you had warned me about there might

32:57

be these changes and at that time it was

33:00

like, we don't know yet type of thing. And now it looks like it's moving

33:02

a little bit more forward, but

33:04

you said could still change. So. In this regard, we're talking like,

33:06

doesn't matter what this person does in

33:10

your company as like being paid salary,

33:10

like they could be like the bottom of

33:15

the totem pole role, you're talking

33:15

base salaried employee like has to be

33:20

at least paid full-time, at least 58

33:20

as of, you know, January 1st you said

33:26

of 20, 25 or 59, something like that. Yeah.

33:28

So the way the exempt, non-exempt

33:28

process works, so to simplify

33:32

exactly the question you're asking. The very first question in the

33:35

list of questions that are part

33:39

of what makes somebody exempt

33:39

versus non exempt is the salary.

33:44

So it starts there. So if you're not willing to pay the

33:45

minimum, then there's no point in

33:50

looking at the rest of the test. So there are more questions to the test.

33:54

, there's an executive test. There's an administrative test.

33:57

There's a, like a computer

33:57

professional test.

34:00

There's a creative test. So for those of you that are hiring,

34:01

you know, maybe like marketing

34:05

manager, I'll utilize that job title,

34:05

social media specialists, those

34:09

types of things, graphic designers. There's an education test.

34:12

So they're, the specific tests that exist.

34:15

But question number one is always,

34:15

do they make this much money?

34:21

And that, that number right now, as we

34:21

mentioned, is the 35, 568, that's moving

34:27

to 43, 888, and then moving to 58, 656.

34:32

And that is their, I

34:32

mean, that is the law.

34:34

I mean, that's, that goes

34:34

into effect on those dates.

34:38

So the only thing that would change that.

34:41

From today is if there's a judge somewhere

34:41

again, starting against the legal side of

34:46

it, that files an injunction that maybe

34:46

says the Department of Labor overstepped.

34:50

This is too drastic. Employers can't do this.

34:53

And then they get into a fight. So we'll see if that happens.

34:56

We can't operate that way. We can only operate with what we're given.

34:59

And so that's what we have right now. And those are the assessments

35:01

that we're working through.

35:04

But I will tell your listeners

35:04

this regardless of all of that

35:09

talking about, you know, Hey, this

35:09

is where the salary threshold is

35:12

going and getting caught up in that.

35:14

The thing that I want to stress is look

35:14

at where you're at today And if you're

35:19

paying somebody on salary Make sure

35:19

that you're within the exempt non exempt

35:26

thresholds Okay, and that you're not

35:26

misclassifying them in that category

35:32

Because just like when we talked about

35:32

independent contractor versus employee

35:35

when we talk about employees, you know,

35:35

don't get caught in the same type of wage

35:40

an hour You Audit through the department

35:40

of labor because you denied somebody

35:44

overtime that was otherwise owed overtime.

35:48

Cause that's really what we're talking about when we say exempt versus not exempt.

35:51

Gotcha. Yeah. It's, this is why people, I

35:52

do not deal with this myself.

35:57

This is why, like, cause there's, there's

35:57

so much information, but I think I

36:01

really wish that this industry had more.

36:03

Expertise around this arena

36:03

because I feel like we feel

36:07

very like almost what do we do?

36:09

We want to get a bookkeeper, but I just

36:09

want to like control them because I see

36:13

people all the time This is a question. I wrote down and I know that some of

36:14

these things like you said are based off

36:17

scenarios and things So, you know, just

36:17

let me know so that way like our listeners

36:20

know that yeah The one question I wrote

36:20

down which I get this a lot and things are

36:24

just kind of racking up as I remember When

36:24

you are, you know, whether it's hourly

36:28

or sourly sourly, did I say that right?

36:30

Yes, I did. I was like, it sounded

36:31

really weird when I said it. Yeah.

36:33

Um, sour, sour, versus Aller hourly,

36:33

when you are putting together

36:38

the job posting and someone is an

36:38

employee, you're required, are you

36:43

required to always list an amount,

36:43

even if it's their range of pay?

36:48

you're not required to. Oh, you're not. Okay. Okay. No, you're not, not on a, on a job.

36:52

There are certain job sites out

36:52

there that do that may require that.

36:58

But that's more about that job

36:58

site than it is what you, you know,

37:02

can and can't do as an employer. So yeah, if you want to

37:05

know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of employers

37:07

that try to, you know, post in

37:10

places where they don't post salary. they just want to have more

37:12

control over that conversation

37:14

when they're talking to you. It's all comes down to

37:16

recruiting strategy. I'm a pretty transparent person,

37:18

so I'm always like, Hey, tell

37:22

people what you're paying. That way people can self select out, you

37:23

know, why do I want to spend time looking

37:27

at a bunch of resumes that, you know, that

37:27

I, for people that maybe I can't afford.

37:32

Yeah, I mean, that's so that that's

37:32

kind of where I that's my two

37:35

cents, but yeah, teach their own on

37:35

their recruiting strategy for that.

37:39

And I like how you said that

37:39

it's really it's based off.

37:41

It's not like a require because

37:41

I've definitely seen and this

37:43

is where misinformation, which

37:43

I'm sure you see it all the time

37:46

misinformation in the accounting space

37:46

where people will be like, You're

37:49

required to put it like it's by law. And so I'm going to be

37:51

like, no, you're not. I'm just kidding. I probably won't.

37:56

Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, depending

37:56

on, you know, maybe it's a government

37:59

type contract or maybe, you know, you're

37:59

talking about prevailing wages for certain

38:04

type of, you know, contracts that are

38:04

out there that you are, yeah, you are

38:08

required to post that kind of stuff. But if we're just talking about your

38:10

average job posting, Yeah, I mean,

38:13

you do you, as far as that goes. It's so funny because when you say

38:15

your decision to be transparent, it's

38:19

really funny because I actually had

38:19

a story where I think my, it was my

38:24

second employee here at Workflow Queen. When I hired her, I was like, you know

38:26

what, we're actually just going to not,

38:29

because I think I read somewhere in some

38:29

book about like, you know, sometimes you

38:32

want to see what they're going to do. Place themselves at right.

38:36

And so I put it on the job description. I was like, you tell me what

38:38

you want to pay based off this

38:40

job and roll regretted it. I will never do it ever again.

38:43

And then just because I had

38:43

a scenario come up, right.

38:45

So I got on these interviews and

38:45

some people were like super low.

38:49

And then we'd had people who were

38:49

like, it was an assistant job.

38:51

Um, Some people were saying like

38:51

$80,000 and some people were saying

38:54

like, you know, really like some people

38:54

were saying 30 and like all these

38:57

different ranges from everywhere. And you could tell the people were

38:59

super confident versus the people who

39:02

were like, I feel really bad asking,

39:02

like, but it's going to miss them out.

39:06

And I remember this has actually happened

39:06

because we ended up hiring one of the

39:10

girls that said this really large salary.

39:14

I think it was like almost $80,000. It was really large for like an assistant.

39:18

And so I remember getting on the call with

39:18

her and being like, we want to select you.

39:22

But my biggest concern is this

39:22

conversation, which is around the salary

39:26

and to get someone who has the idea that

39:26

they want to be paid X 30 grand less

39:32

than that is a pretty hard conversation.

39:34

So gratefully, she moved forward and she

39:34

ended up, she said, no, yeah, I just, I

39:38

honestly didn't even know what to ask for. So I just kind of threw it out there.

39:41

And she was very honest about like, I didn't even

39:43

know, I was overwhelmed because I

39:43

don't even know what the range is

39:46

or what is, you know, whatever. I just did some random Google search.

39:49

And the reason I regretted it is

39:49

because like it became a problem later.

39:54

So that conversation came. And saying like, okay, I

39:56

want my 30 extra thousand.

39:59

And it's like, I can't just go. That's why when you were talking about,

40:00

which is good to hear that the end result

40:05

about the non exempt versus exempt, that

40:05

if this change goes into effect, that

40:09

it's scary to hear that it can go almost

40:09

a 59 because some people who aren't yet

40:13

paying their team members that, but at

40:13

the same time, it sounds like there's.

40:17

I don't want to say the out because

40:17

that's not really the right word, but

40:20

like there is another option, but like

40:20

you said, you have to do the assessment to

40:23

determine you have to follow certain rules

40:23

to do the hourly and then you have to

40:27

pay overtime, which I like there is like

40:27

that fear because I think a lot of people

40:31

in this space are so scared to hire.

40:33

Sure. Because the pay, the salaries, the things.

40:37

So all in all to just bring together

40:37

for anybody who's listening.

40:40

Like, I think that over time I have

40:40

learned from my own mistakes that I really

40:44

wish I would have just put the salary

40:44

and now it's a range or it just says it.

40:48

So like, when I talk to you about my

40:48

personal assistant, I told you exactly

40:51

like, well, we had a conversation, you

40:51

told me my threshold and I was like,

40:54

well, this is what I want to pay them. And you're like, perfect.

40:56

You're good. You're like, you're in the, you're in set

40:57

and she's going to be doing this with you.

40:59

And it was just very insightful.

41:01

So for anyone listening, you're

41:01

going to mess up, but like, this is

41:06

why conversations with someone like

41:06

Matt or someone like an employment

41:10

attorney is so important because your

41:10

business gets to a point where it's

41:14

like, it's no longer a side hustle. This is a real legit big girl job

41:16

dot job, like career thing that you

41:21

put, put together this business. Last thing you want is someone

41:23

coming after you a year or two later.

41:26

Now I'll piss you did something

41:26

wrong in the business one time and

41:29

now they're going to come after you. That's it. That's it.

41:32

It's so much. So I did want to ask one more question

41:33

and then I'll kind of like lead us off

41:36

because this is so much information. I'm sure everybody's going to be

41:38

so excited about bringing you on.

41:41

I already knew it was going to be great because. It's just you and you're always

41:43

so awesome with information.

41:46

So what if someone is hiring when

41:46

you were talking about, there's

41:49

a minimum threshold, right? When someone's hiring in these different

41:51

states, because there's different

41:55

requirements per state as well. Do you recommend like the range

41:57

or like, because a lot of our

42:00

people hire remote all over the U. S. So like, what would you give as

42:02

recommendation for that after they've

42:04

determined whether non exempt or exempt? Like, let's just say it's an employee,

42:06

like what would you suggest to them?

42:09

That's right. And help me understand

42:10

that question again.

42:12

So like range of, Oh,

42:12

because I think higher

42:15

or not higher. No. So you were talking,

42:17

no, it's totally fine. So what you were talking about

42:18

was in this, there are certain

42:21

states that have certain minimum

42:21

wage requirements, correct?

42:24

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

42:26

And that's mainly for hourly employees.

42:29

The most part. So you're talking about,

42:30

yeah, minimum wage limits.

42:33

Yeah within those within those but I

42:33

I think this is a good topic So I may

42:37

kind of change it up on you a little bit

42:37

here, but I think this is real important

42:40

for those because you you nailed it. The more and more that we've been

42:42

working especially with some bookkeeping

42:45

firms Is that you do hire it's

42:45

exciting right to be able to say?

42:50

Oh, you know somebody

42:50

can work from their home.

42:52

Therefore I can hire

42:52

anywhere, you know in the u.

42:55

s to to get somebody on boarded and

42:55

I just you know, here's always my

42:59

cautionary tale You With that is that

42:59

there are a lot of state specific laws.

43:04

So even aside from minimum wage laws,

43:04

it's important to know that states have

43:09

their own laws when it comes to work comp. And we have these conversations a lot.

43:13

So, you know, if you hire an

43:13

employee in Oklahoma, you have

43:16

to carry a workers comp policy. If you hire an employee in

43:18

Texas, Texas, you get the option.

43:21

you know, if you hire in Tennessee,

43:21

I think you have to have at

43:23

least five employees before

43:23

you carry a work comp policy.

43:26

it's across the board. And I think that that's important

43:27

that, you talk to somebody that's

43:31

going to give you good advice in those

43:31

areas and understands those laws.

43:35

And then the other. thing that's also important is that

43:36

outside of just the millions of different

43:40

state specific laws that exist out

43:40

there that, you know, we could take a

43:43

10 person, bookkeeping firm and your

43:43

employee handbook's going to be 150

43:47

pages if they're all in different states. Which is, sounds insane, but

43:49

that's, that's what happens.

43:53

And so, you know, it's always my

43:53

advice to Keep it to a limited as

43:57

much as possible, but if you want

43:57

to open up that door, that's fine.

44:01

Just know what you're signing

44:01

up for and that you're carrying

44:04

the right insurances in each of

44:04

those states for those employees.

44:07

And then lastly, because this comes

44:07

up quite a bit, so just a little tag

44:11

here, because I know we're running

44:11

out of time, but pay time off.

44:15

That's a big topic of conversation,

44:15

and it's important for your listeners

44:18

to know that different states

44:18

treat paid time off differently.

44:22

In Oklahoma, since I'm from here,

44:22

I'll keep bringing that up, PTO

44:26

is not considered earned income. So, you know, I, as long as I have a

44:29

policy around it, and if that employee

44:32

leaves, and the policy says that they

44:32

don't get paid PTO upon their departure

44:37

from my company, then I don't have to pay

44:37

them that, even though that maybe they've

44:41

racked up, 80 hours or 120 hours of that

44:41

that they haven't used, but you are in

44:47

Colorado or Louisiana or maybe California.

44:51

These states, as well as many, many

44:51

others treat it as earned income.

44:56

And so if you have employees in those

44:56

states and you have a very robust,

44:59

because you're a very generous business

44:59

owner and you think it's, you know,

45:02

you want people to take a vacation. And so you're just, you Like come work

45:04

for me, I'm going to give you all this

45:06

time, you're giving them cash and you

45:06

need to understand that as a business

45:11

owner that that's their money if they work

45:11

in those particular states, regardless

45:16

of what kind of policy you want to have

45:16

based around the state that you live in.

45:20

And so those employment laws are based

45:20

around where the employee resides,

45:24

not where your business exists. And so that's kind of

45:26

my two cents on that.

45:28

That's a lot to unpack. That's a whole other podcast.

45:31

I'm sure. But I think it's worth saying, you

45:32

know, if you made it this far and

45:35

you've heard all these different

45:35

things for those of you that are

45:37

out there, you know, hiring across

45:37

state lines, just be aware of those,

45:41

insurances and different state laws. Yeah.

45:43

That's really good. That's really good advice. I mean, I'm in California, which

45:45

is, as we know, sometimes the

45:47

worst state for all the things. So we've got like the AB.

45:51

Yeah. 54 55, whatever the hell that's called.

45:54

And that's like telling us if someone's

45:54

in the same line of, you know, does

45:58

the same role as like the business

45:58

thing, we have to do employees, like

46:01

I don't have a choice, I have to hire

46:01

employees for bookkeepers and it's

46:05

very, very, very frustrating because

46:05

like, sometimes I just, they really do

46:09

fit in the line of a contractor, but

46:09

then I'm like, I don't have a choice,

46:13

they pack a punch out there. There's no question.

46:15

Yeah. But it's also beautiful things out here in California.

46:19

You get this, you get the

46:19

weather, but then you get this

46:23

fair, fair. Yeah. to kind of end us off here.

46:26

Well, one before I asked my

46:26

final question, I want to know

46:29

how can people get ahold of you? How can they get into your world?

46:32

I want to know. connect with you, see what types of SERPs

46:33

or offers you guys have to support them.

46:37

you can always reach out to me direct

46:37

and you can also go through our website.

46:41

So just for those listeners that

46:41

are out there, our website is whyhr.

46:48

guru. That's G U R U.

46:50

So that is an actual extension.

46:53

For those that aren't aware, so

46:53

our company name is Y H R yhr.

46:57

guru and then my email address is matt,

46:57

very simply put m a t t at w h y h r.

47:04

guru. Feel free to hit me up.

47:07

I love having these conversations.

47:09

So even if you're not looking to, you

47:09

know, hire us as far as services go,

47:13

but you just need to need to talk it

47:13

out and kind of see where you're at.

47:17

And maybe we can help point

47:17

you in the right direction.

47:19

We're happy to do that. So it's all about education you

47:20

know, I'm a business owner as well.

47:24

And I think that that plays a little

47:24

bit into my passion for also just want

47:28

to make sure you're set up to succeed. That's, that's all

47:30

we're trying to do here. Yeah, I love that.

47:33

I mean, you share the same value

47:33

because that's how I met my firm.

47:35

Like, I'm like, just get on a call because

47:35

I'd rather guide you in the right place

47:38

rather than just be like, bye, bye, bye.

47:41

Because like, really it's value. They're like, wow, you know what

47:42

the hell you're talking about? Let's start working with you.

47:46

Sure. No, absolutely. So my last question I wanted to

47:48

lead off was first to ask you

47:51

about how to connect with you. Cause my other question is,

47:53

it sounds like some of these.

47:57

pockets of information kind of

47:57

might need different experts.

48:01

And I know for us, we have to

48:01

tell our clients like CPAs do

48:04

this versus bookkeepers do this

48:04

and financial advisors do this.

48:08

So I'm assuming also in your realm,

48:08

there's also like, what type of advice

48:11

would you give to someone looking to make

48:11

sure that they are holistically supported

48:17

when it comes to the hiring process? I know that I can just

48:19

shamelessly plug myself.

48:22

If you want to learn how to like do

48:22

the process of hiring, that's me.

48:25

Yeah. Yeah. But I will teach you all the

48:26

things like to actually do hire

48:30

him on board all the things. But when we're talking about the

48:31

other experts, it sounds like you

48:35

guys, the HR experts, but you also

48:35

kind of plugged in the employment.

48:39

Lawyers, when would they need to step in? there are certain documents that you

48:42

need to make sure you are covered for

48:46

the state that your employees are in when

48:46

it comes to especially like severance

48:51

agreements or let's say non solicitation.

48:55

non disclosure agreements. we've worked with

48:56

attorneys to create those.

48:59

So we pretty much, you know, our clients

48:59

are pretty well taken care of in those

49:02

areas you know, based on where they're at.

49:04

But obviously if we're in new territory,

49:04

then we're gonna, we're gonna scrub that

49:08

the right way through the right attorney. But anytime you're talking about,

49:09

you know, non competes, which

49:12

are essentially going away but

49:12

there are still some provisions

49:15

in there by state and by industry.

49:19

But I think that's very important for

49:19

bookkeeping firms, because obviously

49:22

you're giving people access to your

49:22

client base, and so you want to make

49:26

sure that a minimum you have a strong

49:26

non solicitation agreement in place.

49:30

And we do recommend that you

49:30

do work with an attorney.

49:33

I mean, I worked with one to put

49:33

mine in place for my employees

49:36

as a consulting business. And that, you know, hey, if you want

49:38

to go out and start your own HR firm,

49:41

that's great, but you're not going

49:41

to be able to solicit, you know, my

49:45

employees that are going to stay here and

49:45

work with me or my client base either.

49:49

And so, you know, there are ways

49:49

to protect yourself and those

49:52

are things that you should be

49:52

looking into, As a firm for sure.

49:56

I love that. Yeah. I think there's just a lot of

49:57

confusion of like, where do I go?

49:59

Who do I talk to? Every time I'm like, why HR?

50:02

They're like, is that what the why? Or is that like a why?

50:05

And I'm like, it's like a, why would

50:05

you do that to yourself and not call it?

50:07

Why would you do that? Yeah, exactly. And I can't stress this enough.

50:13

You know, when it comes to

50:13

attorneys, be sure you're talking

50:16

to an employment law attorney.

50:18

That's very important that, you know,

50:18

you don't, don't call the attorney that

50:23

you utilize, you know, for your family.

50:25

Yeah. Your divorce, your family will,

50:25

you know, that kind of stuff.

50:28

I mean, there's, everybody has

50:28

their specialty that's out there.

50:32

that's just very important. We do run into that quite a bit.

50:34

Somebody will say, Oh no, I've

50:34

got somebody who handles that.

50:36

It's like, well, that's not. Really what they do.

50:38

that's, that is important. Yeah, I like that you said that.

50:42

Yeah, I have two different types of lawyers. They both do two different things.

50:46

Right. You know, so for me, I definitely have

50:46

learned that over time that like, don't

50:50

the generics, like it's just like the

50:50

way that we niche down in our industry.

50:53

It's like, you don't want

50:53

people to be working with you

50:55

if you don't serve restaurants. Like, I wouldn't touch it.

50:58

Uh, so, Anyways, Matt, this is so great.

51:01

I never take two pages of notes to

51:01

make sure I get it to my people.

51:05

I actually took two pages of

51:05

notes, which is great because

51:09

I have so much to tell them. And I'm so excited to just

51:10

shout this out to the world.

51:14

And I appreciate you so much for this

51:14

because one, I always learn something

51:18

from you in the process and It's been

51:18

like years of working with you and I

51:21

still learn every single time we talk. And I just can't thank you enough.

51:25

I mean, you've always been a great supporter, but also really great to work with.

51:28

And you're doing amazing work. Everybody that, you know, has come

51:29

our direction that's maybe, you

51:33

know, come through your class. I mean, they just can't say enough

51:34

of the influence that you've had.

51:37

So thank you for keeping us in mind as we

51:37

always want to keep you in mind as well.

51:41

So it's been great. Well, thank you.

51:43

That was so nice. Well, thank you Matt for being here today.

51:46

I appreciate you and everybody

51:46

just go in and get in Matt's world

51:49

and get immersed in all things. You might have to, yeah, right.

51:52

I might, you might have to relisten

51:52

to this unfortunately, cause there's

51:54

a lot of info, but great info.

51:56

Come back to it, save it, like

51:56

do all the things that you need

51:59

to do with all the social things. But thank you once again,

52:01

Matt, for being here today. Thanks for having me.

52:04

Take care.