0:01

There was an incredibly loud

0:03

bang that was

0:05

not like the half and quarter loads you hear

0:07

on a set. Those are sort

0:09

of, they're

0:12

loud poofs and pops. This was

0:14

deafening. And

0:20

it felt like somebody had taken

0:22

a baseball bat to my shoulder.

0:24

I remember that distinctly and sort

0:26

of stumbling back and shouting. I

0:28

don't remember exactly what I said. That's

0:32

Joel Souza, a film director

0:34

and screenwriter from San Francisco,

0:36

California. But he's not giving

0:38

an interview or making the rounds promoting

0:40

his latest work. Instead,

0:42

he's testifying on the stand in a

0:45

very high profile trial that took place

0:47

in March, 2024. He's

0:50

recalling a horrifying moment that occurred

0:52

while on the set of his

0:54

film, Rust. I

0:57

remember initially thinking had she

1:00

been startled by it and they

1:02

were sitting her down as a result and then

1:05

I saw the blood on her

1:07

back. And

1:09

when you were at the hospital, did

1:13

you have an understanding that you had

1:15

been actually shot by a bullet? No.

1:19

No. I mean, I knew

1:21

something got me, but they

1:23

kept saying, they kept talking about this bullet and I,

1:26

it just could

1:28

not compute for me. I just kept saying, you

1:30

don't understand. No, no, no. This was a movie set.

1:33

That's not possible. You don't get it. And they kept saying,

1:35

no, no, no, it is. I

1:38

just keep insisting you don't understand because this

1:40

is not possible. It's just not possible that

1:42

there's a live round. It's not. It

1:45

just can't. And

1:47

then they eventually maybe

1:49

grew tired of my protesting about it because they showed

1:51

me the X-ray of my back. And there was a

1:54

very large bullet in it. Helena

2:00

Hutchins was shot and killed in

2:02

an accidental shooting while on the

2:04

set of Rust, an independent Western

2:06

movie. The first

2:08

person to stand trial in connection to

2:10

Helena's death was the film's armorer, Hannah

2:13

Gutierrez Reed. 24-year-old

2:16

Hannah was supposed to load the

2:18

gun with dummy ammunition for the

2:20

film's shooting. But somehow, a live

2:22

round was inside the gun, and

2:24

the gun went off and actor

2:26

Alec Baldwin's guns, killing

2:28

Helena and wounding Joel Souza,

2:31

the director. As

2:34

of this recording, Alec Baldwin is scheduled to

2:36

stand trial in July 2024 for involuntary manslaughter.

2:41

He has pleaded not guilty. But

2:44

first, all eyes were on Hannah Gutierrez

2:46

Reed, as prosecutors accused

2:49

her of being reckless and

2:51

negligent. Her defense

2:53

argued she was being scapegoated. This

2:57

is Jillian in partnership with Law &

2:59

Crime. You are listening to

3:01

Court Junkie, Episode 273. Get

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we've done your homework. In

5:09

his opening statements, prosecutor Jason Lewis

5:11

told jurors there were two key

5:13

questions to be answered at trial.

5:17

The first being, what are

5:19

the events that happened on the set

5:21

of rust that led to the death

5:23

of Helena Hutchins? And

5:26

the second question is, how

5:29

did live ammunition end up on the set

5:31

of the movie? As

5:34

to both questions, we believe that

5:37

it was the negligent acts and

5:39

failures of the defendant, Miss Gutierrez,

5:42

that resulted in both

5:46

the acts that contributed to

5:48

Miss Hutchins' death and to the live

5:50

rounds being brought onto the set.

5:53

He said after the incident happened

5:55

and when Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was being

5:58

interviewed by investigators, She stated

6:00

that when she removed the gun from the

6:02

safe to begin filming for the afternoon session,

6:05

she didn't recheck the ammunition. Our

6:08

witnesses are going to testify that when

6:10

the defendant pulled the gun out of

6:13

the safe after lunch, what

6:15

she should have done was opened

6:18

the gun and independently herself checked

6:20

each and every round. Then

6:23

when she took it to the church

6:25

and handed it to Mr. Hall's, she

6:27

should have done a second complete ammo

6:29

check with Mr.

6:31

Hall's because this double redundancy

6:33

is what helps prevent the

6:35

kind of incidents that occurred

6:38

to Ms. Hutchins from happening. This

6:41

means she should have opened the gun, removed

6:44

each cartridge, confirmed

6:46

that they were dummy rounds by individually shaking

6:48

them, rattling them, or seeing the board hold.

6:54

And because these dummy rounds

6:56

are so similar to

6:58

live rounds, her

7:01

decision to just crack it open and spin the

7:03

cylinder a little bit to look at the head

7:05

stamps wasn't enough. She needed to do a much

7:08

more complete check. So

7:11

having failed to do that check herself, she

7:13

then handed the firearm to Mr.

7:15

Hall's anyway. She

7:17

exited the church and

7:19

then Mr. Hall's handed the firearm to

7:22

Mr. Baldwin. Lewis

7:24

told the jury that they would be

7:26

calling several witnesses who would testify that

7:28

Hannah regularly failed to properly carry out

7:31

her duties as an armorer. These

7:34

witnesses are going to describe the

7:36

defendant's conduct as unprofessional and sloppy.

7:39

You will hear testimony that she

7:42

routinely left guns and ammunition lying

7:44

around the set unattended and

7:47

that her gun safe and ammo

7:49

cart were constantly

7:51

disorganized. The

7:55

second question that we want to answer for

7:57

you is where are these

7:59

lives? bullets came

8:02

from. The prospect

8:04

of live ammunition landing up on

8:06

a film set is

8:09

incomprehensible. It's something that should never

8:11

happen. It's

8:13

a hard and fast industry rule

8:15

that live ammunition should be miles

8:17

away from a film set at

8:19

all times because of the risk

8:22

that it poses for being confused with the

8:24

dummy rounds that are used on the set.

8:28

The film is uncovered a total of

8:30

six live bullets on set. So

8:33

on November 9th, a couple

8:36

of weeks after the shooting, the

8:39

defendant came into the Santa Fe

8:41

Sheriff's Office for an interview with

8:43

Corporal Hancock. And she was

8:45

asked questions about the box of ammunition

8:47

she was pulling from the day of

8:49

the incident. This box with the

8:51

small JS on the label. The

8:54

defendant told Corporal Hancock that she

8:56

thought this box was kind of

8:59

peculiar and she wasn't certain where

9:01

it came from. But she

9:03

said that she didn't believe it was one of the boxes

9:06

that was originally brought on set. But

9:09

then the defendant offered to Corporal Hancock

9:11

that the day prior to the interview,

9:14

she had asked her father back home

9:16

to text her

9:18

a photograph of the box of 45

9:21

long colt dummies that

9:23

they had at his home. And

9:26

she texted him and he

9:28

texted her this photo in

9:30

response. It's identical. It's

9:33

the same box. The

9:36

box of dummies she was pulling from

9:38

on the 21st is

9:41

identical to the box of dummies that her

9:43

father had at home. So we

9:46

believe this is more evidence that

9:48

this box of dummies with the live round

9:50

in it came from the defendant.

9:53

We're also going to show you

9:55

how these live rounds slowly spread

9:57

their way throughout the set. Eventually

10:00

landing in several of the

10:03

actors costumes and firearms on

10:06

October 13th, 15th, 17th, and of course on

10:08

the 21st. Lewis

10:13

told the jury that Hannah was unprofessional

10:15

and that she failed to do the

10:17

essential safety functions of her job. These

10:21

failures resulted in live ammunition

10:23

being spread through this entire

10:25

set, he said. Once

10:28

the live ammunition was on the

10:30

set, she failed to detect it

10:32

because she didn't follow those

10:34

essential safety protocols that

10:36

required her to inspect

10:39

every round before they were placed into

10:41

the gun. The

10:43

evidence will show that the defendant treated the

10:45

safety protocols as if they were optional, rather

10:48

than if people's lives counted on

10:51

her doing her job correctly. We

10:55

will show you that as a

10:58

direct result of her failures, Ms. Gutierrez

11:01

call caused Ms. Hutchins

11:03

death. But Hannah's

11:05

defense team pushed back. They

11:07

said she was being unfairly blamed when others

11:10

who were higher up were responsible. For

11:13

one, they blamed the person who was holding the

11:15

gun when it went off, actor

11:18

Alec Baldwin. The first

11:20

event that had to happen is the

11:22

actor Alec Baldwin pointed a gun on

11:26

that set and he

11:28

either had his finger on the trigger and the hammer

11:30

cocked or he pulled

11:32

the trigger as he was pointing

11:34

that at Ms. Hutchins and Mr.

11:37

Souza who was right behind her. And make

11:40

no mistake, this is not a prop gun,

11:42

this is a real gun. Mr.

11:44

Baldwin pointed her right at him, either had his

11:47

finger on the trigger or had his finger on

11:49

the trigger and depressed or pulled it, causing

11:51

that gun to fire and hit

11:53

Ms. Hutchins. Ms. Gutierrez,

11:55

you're not going to hear anything about her being

11:58

in that church or firing. firing that weapon.

12:00

That was Alec Baldwin. You

12:03

will hear that Hollywood actors are not

12:05

allowed to point guns, real guns, at

12:07

other actors or crew. It's

12:10

like every other safety

12:12

with guns in any other place in

12:14

society. You learn these rules and

12:16

go into the classes. You learn these rules if

12:18

you've ever owned a gun. Rule

12:20

number one, never point a firearm

12:22

at somebody unless you intend to

12:24

shoot them. The

12:27

defense also said production was at

12:29

fault for creating a situation where

12:31

Hannah was so busy juggling a

12:33

second role, handling the props, that

12:35

it took time away from her armorer

12:37

duties. He said when Hannah

12:40

voiced her concerns, she was ignored.

12:43

And what they tried to do and what

12:45

you're seeing in this courtroom today is trying

12:47

to blame it all on Hannah. The

12:50

24 year old because why? Because she's

12:53

an easy target. She's

12:56

the least powerful person on that set. The

13:00

defense also cast blame on first

13:02

assistant director David Halls, who you'll

13:04

hear from later in this episode.

13:07

They said the set was dangerous and

13:09

that he didn't hold regular safety meetings.

13:12

They said he also never should have

13:14

given Alec the gun that day. The

13:16

gun wasn't needed in the scene as the

13:19

crew got the lighting right. Hannah's

13:22

attorney, Jason Bowles, told

13:24

the jury they would present testimony

13:26

from officials from OSHA, which stands

13:29

for the Occupational Safety and Health

13:31

Administration, the federal agency

13:33

that makes sure workplaces are safe. OSHA

13:36

fined the Rust Set $100,000, one

13:40

of the largest fines in the history of

13:42

New Mexico. You're

13:44

going to hear that OSHA found fault

13:47

with production. They found

13:49

numerous faults, and

13:51

they found numerous mistakes in production's part,

13:54

not in the red on production. You're

13:56

going to hear that OSHA indicated that

13:58

there was a Rust Set. that

14:01

there were several safety errors. I'm

14:03

going to talk about those in a moment, but I want to

14:05

make that very clear. When

14:07

the state talks about Ms. Gutierrez-Reed

14:10

being negligent, what

14:12

really happened is production was negligent. Production

14:15

put her in that position. They

14:18

put her in the position of having two jobs,

14:21

a props assistant and an armorer,

14:23

and expected a 24-year-old under really

14:26

tough conditions to keep up with everything that

14:28

was going on. You're going to

14:30

hear that Ms. Gutierrez-Reed emailed

14:32

the production manager, Gabriel Pickle, who was on

14:35

this site, you're going to hear Gabriel Pickle,

14:38

and she asked her for more armorer days.

14:40

She said in this email, when

14:43

I'm not able to focus on my armorer duties,

14:46

this is when mistakes happen. And

14:49

she was telling

14:51

her this. Now, Ms. Pickle

14:53

came back and said, no, we only have

14:56

eight armorer days, and that's all you're going to get.

14:58

So out of the whole course in the

15:01

movie, they didn't allow her to be an

15:03

armorer and to perform those

15:05

duties to the extent that she had to.

15:08

And that's going to be a very important point

15:10

too. They moved her between two different things, props

15:12

assistant and armorer. Bull

15:15

said Hannah was working with cheap

15:17

dummy bullets that looked like live

15:19

rounds, and that she was rushed

15:21

on the set, which created a

15:23

dangerous situation. You're going

15:25

to hear witnesses in this case, including

15:28

professional armorer that the state has hired,

15:30

and other people that will tell you is completely

15:33

inadvisable and a

15:35

terrible decision on a movie like

15:37

this with so many guns that

15:40

you have a part-time armorer. It

15:42

just is not a good idea, and that's

15:45

a terrible idea, but that's what they

15:47

did. Ms. Gutierrez Reed

15:50

did the best job she could under

15:53

very, very tough circumstances, trying

15:55

to get into this profession, a

15:58

profession she really wanted to do. She

16:00

is not guilty of the crimes

16:02

charged against her. And

16:05

the prosecution must prove

16:07

that, beyond a

16:09

reasonable doubt, and I submit they will not

16:11

in this trial for the

16:13

reasons I've stated and the evidence that you will

16:15

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skims.com. Joel

19:05

Souza was a screenwriter-director of

19:07

low-budget independent films. His

19:10

work didn't have much mainstream breakthrough

19:12

success, although he worked with some

19:15

actors you might recognize, like Luke

19:17

Perry, Tom Arnold, and Denise

19:19

Richards. Joel's

19:21

most well-known film, now

19:24

infamous, is likely to

19:26

be Rust. In

19:28

hindsight, the plot of Rust had dark

19:30

coincidences to what happened in real life.

19:33

The movie was about an accidental shooting.

19:36

In Rust, an orphaned teenage boy escapes

19:39

and goes on the run with his

19:41

grandpa, played by Alec Baldwin,

19:43

after the boy accidentally shot and killed a

19:46

rancher and was going to be hanged. Filming

19:50

for the movie began outside Santa Fe,

19:52

New Mexico, a good place for

19:54

a Western, which suddenly seemed even better

19:56

with the state's generous tax incentives. Joel

20:00

said he was excited to work

20:03

with his cinematographer, Helena Hutchins. And

20:06

how did Ms. Hutchins become involved in

20:08

the movie, Russ? So

20:12

over time, just generally as a director,

20:14

if I would see the work of

20:16

a cinematographer that I admired, I would

20:18

just make a note of it, make a note of their name.

20:20

And I had seen a trailer for a movie she did. I

20:22

think it was called the Arch Enemy. And

20:26

I just was impressed visually. It looked like something

20:28

that was sort of my, it fit my style.

20:30

And so I looked into some of her other

20:32

work and I had added her to

20:35

a list of other names I had put

20:37

together over the years. I know, I think,

20:39

I can't remember what publication, if it was an

20:41

American cinematographer or something like that, but they had

20:43

named her one of 10 cinematographers to watch. It's

20:46

a big deal. Something about

20:48

Helena just, we were really, really, really in tune

20:50

with what we both thought the movie should be.

20:53

She had some really interesting references she would

20:55

make. My references would always

20:57

tend to be a little more mainstream and she would

20:59

be talking about some avant-garde Russian filmmaker. And that's a

21:02

hole in my game and she was going to fill

21:04

it and I loved that. And so

21:06

that's how I asked the producers to

21:09

tell them that's who I wanted. Please

21:11

don't watch the deal because she's great.

21:14

So that's how we came to work

21:16

together. When

21:18

putting together the crew, there was another person

21:20

who stood out because she had a last

21:23

name that made him pause and take notice.

21:26

Hannah Gutierrez Reed. Hannah

21:29

was the stepdaughter of Thel

21:31

Reed, a well-known armorer in

21:33

Hollywood. I had a phone call

21:35

with her before I ever met her. One

21:40

of the folks from the production office, I can't remember if

21:42

it was Gabby or Roe,

21:45

had told me that they had found an

21:47

armorer. They told me that it was Hannah

21:49

Gutierrez Reed. I had of

21:52

course heard of Thel Reed, I mean

21:54

in the business who hasn't. as

22:00

well as other big movies like Django

22:02

Unchained, 310 Tiyuma,

22:05

and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Felrud

22:08

was a veteran, but his stepdaughter was

22:11

just starting out. Hannah was

22:13

24 years old. Rust

22:15

was her second film as an armorer.

22:18

Her job was to handle the deadly

22:21

weapons and ammunition on set. Here's

22:24

how the state described Hannah's

22:26

responsibilities. Ms. Gutierrez

22:28

was hired to perform a dual

22:30

role on the movie. She

22:33

was hired to be both an armorer

22:35

and a props assistant. As

22:38

a props assistant, it

22:40

was Ms. Gutierrez's primary duty to

22:42

essentially go out and source and

22:44

bring back to the film set

22:47

everything that the actors need

22:49

to touch as part of

22:52

making the movie. So for example, if

22:54

they're doing a kitchen scene, then

22:56

Ms. Gutierrez would have gone out, purchased

22:59

plates, cups, glasses, forks, all that

23:01

sort of stuff, and

23:03

then those would have been incorporated into the set.

23:08

Ms. Gutierrez's other role was

23:10

as the movie's armorer, and

23:13

it's that role that really has brought

23:15

us here today. The

23:18

armorer has a few key responsibilities. The

23:21

first responsibility is to source and

23:24

bring to the set all

23:26

of the firearms that are going to be used as

23:28

part of the movie. So

23:30

for a modern movie, that may

23:33

have required her to purchase or

23:39

obtain machine guns,

23:41

semi-automatic handguns, long

23:44

rifles, and that sort of thing. But

23:47

for a Western like Rust, the

23:50

armorer would have to source weapons

23:52

that were in use at the

23:54

time so that the movie looks

23:56

more authentic. And so

23:58

that would include finding old looking wardrobe,

26:01

and production design as he moved from

26:03

set to set. His

26:05

script supervisor was close on hand too.

26:08

He also often talked to his actors

26:10

and walked through the scenes with them.

26:13

Who wasn't on his mind? The

26:16

armorer. Are you largely

26:20

focused on the

26:23

behavior of the armorer? No.

26:26

I mean,

26:28

you see them when they are there at set,

26:31

but no, I don't generally

26:34

interact with the armorer during

26:37

the course of the day on set. According

26:40

to his testimony, you could sometimes

26:42

find Joel under a tent watching

26:44

the monitors while the cameras were

26:46

filming. Hannah wasn't near him. Her

26:49

place belonged near the set by the

26:51

guns so she could retrieve the weapons

26:54

from the actors off the set. What

26:57

is your understanding of

26:59

the overall, I would

27:02

say for lack of a better word,

27:04

the overall amount of power that the

27:06

armorer has over the

27:08

firearms and ammunition on the set? Well,

27:13

I would say that specifically

27:16

since it's such a safety matter and it's

27:18

such a specialized matter that there's really no

27:20

one on set that should be able to

27:22

override the armor in terms

27:25

of the weapons, the ammunition, how they're

27:27

handled, anything. What the armorer

27:29

says goes. And

27:31

would that include the star

27:34

actor and producer, Mr. Baldwin?

27:36

It would include anybody, yeah. On

27:39

the day of the shooting, October 21st, 2021, things

27:41

were already going badly. The

27:46

movie shoot was in trouble. Six

27:49

members of the camera crew had

27:51

quit. According to some

27:53

reports, it was because they said they had been

27:55

promised that their hotel rooms would be paid for.

27:59

The prosecution It

32:00

was then overpowered by a loud

32:02

bang that hurt his ears. He

32:06

then saw Helena, who was mortally

32:08

wounded. I remember sort

32:11

of stumbling back and I either

32:13

fell to my knees or I was sitting.

32:17

And I distinctly remember her being lowered

32:21

to the ground. People had

32:23

her sort of by either side. And

32:27

I still didn't quite know what had

32:29

happened. Nothing made sense. I

32:32

remember initially thinking had she

32:35

been startled by it and they

32:38

were sitting her down as a result. And then

32:41

I saw the blood on her

32:43

back. He described

32:46

a very chaotic scene. I

32:49

remember them

32:51

laying me down. I remember them laying her

32:53

down next to me. Although

32:55

we were sort of facing in opposite directions. My head

32:57

was this way, her head was that way. I

33:02

remember a lot of panic. I

33:08

still just couldn't figure out

33:10

what had happened. I

33:13

thought was there something that had been stuck in the

33:15

barrel that came out but nothing

33:18

made sense. I

33:21

remember our Dolly

33:25

grip, Ross, coming

33:27

to sort of grab me and

33:29

trying to call me and then Matt Hemmer came in.

33:33

And between the two of them, I remember they sort of

33:35

tended to me and were pulling up and just trying to

33:37

find out where there was a hole. Do

33:42

you recall Mr. Sousa at any point in

33:44

time, during

33:46

that general time after the gun went off,

33:50

having any kind of an interaction with Ms.

33:52

Gutierrez? I

33:54

remember at one point looking

33:57

up and her standing there was...

33:59

but another person or a

34:01

few other people, and

34:03

she was, looked

34:06

distraught. I just, and

34:08

I remember her saying, I'm

34:11

sorry, I'm sorry, Joel. And I remember somebody just

34:13

screaming at her and they just all shook her

34:15

out. He recalled

34:17

looking over at Helena and her looking

34:20

back at him. She

34:23

had the biggest brown eyes I've ever seen.

34:27

And then,

34:30

but I, when they, I don't remember who

34:32

they took out first. They put me

34:34

on a, some kind of stretcher

34:36

and rolled, rolled me

34:38

out. He was asked

34:40

if Hannah had been inside the church when the

34:42

gun went off and he said he didn't know.

34:46

In your experience, would you

34:48

have had an expectation that she would

34:50

have been in the church? Yeah, the

34:53

armor would be where the gun is. Okay.

34:56

Helena Hutchins was 42 years old when

34:59

she was shot and killed. She

35:02

left behind her husband and her

35:04

nine-year-old son. Born

35:06

in Ukraine, Helena grew up in a

35:08

Russian military base in the Arctic. Her

35:11

upbringing inspired her dream of

35:13

making a documentary about nuclear

35:15

submarines someday. She

35:18

studied film and journalism and

35:20

economics. She met

35:22

her husband, Matthew, in Los Angeles, in

35:24

the city where she found her passion

35:27

working as a cinematographer. With

35:29

her master's degree from the

35:31

American Film Institute Conservatory, she

35:34

had a reputation as a gifted artist.

35:37

Her big break on a major

35:39

film seemed imminent. My name

35:41

is Craig Mizrahi and I was Helena's agent. What

35:44

stood out for me was her passion, her

35:46

intense preparation, her resourcefulness and creativity

35:48

on set, and the kindness

35:51

and generosity she showed to all those she worked

35:53

with. In

35:55

getting to know her husband, Matt, it

35:58

was clear that he and their son, Andrew, an

42:00

armor pull loose ammo

42:03

out of a fanny pack. Typically,

42:05

my experience with armors is

42:07

any ammo they use,

42:10

blanks or dummies comes out of some

42:12

sort of container, whether it's a labeled

42:15

box or some

42:17

other plastic type ammo

42:19

container. Now,

42:25

in terms of you indicated that

42:27

you would see firearms

42:31

and gun belts unattended on the

42:33

cart. Why

42:36

did that stand out to you? It

42:40

was out of the ordinary. Again,

42:43

my experience is most of

42:45

the firearms I've seen on

42:47

set come out of

42:49

some sort of locked bag, locked

42:52

container. The armors,

42:54

some armors depending on the show, have

42:56

a whole wheel around

42:58

cart with drawers that they can

43:00

lock, a drawer

43:03

that potentially has the individual's

43:05

actors or character's name

43:07

on that drawer. So

43:09

that character's props would live in that

43:11

drawer under lock and key. He

43:14

said it seemed inappropriate and out

43:16

of the ordinary that the firearms

43:19

Hannah used weren't secured. He

43:21

said typically in his experience on other

43:23

movies, the cast and crew would be

43:25

invited to a safety check. And

43:28

that's where the armorer would load the

43:30

firearm with dummy bullets or blanks. Many

43:33

times the armorer wouldn't even hand the

43:35

firearm to the actor, they would place

43:38

it in the actor's holster. He

43:41

was asked about what Hannah did on the set

43:43

of Rust. Do you

43:45

recall ever watching her or taking

43:49

note of her loading the

43:51

gun in the presence of cast or crew?

43:56

I think there were a couple of times

43:58

on set where we were doing these

44:01

quick resets instead of cutting the camera

44:04

where she was put in a position to

44:07

reload that as quickly as she could

44:09

and hand it back to our actors.

44:12

And when you say she was put in a

44:14

position, who would put her

44:17

in that position? In

44:20

that particular instance, both the

44:24

first assistant director that's in charge of

44:26

safety and the

44:29

actor-producer Alec Baldwin. With

44:31

regard to your experience on other

44:34

movies, have you

44:36

ever seen an armor slow

44:38

down that pace so that

44:40

they are not being rushed? Yes.

44:44

Did Ms. Gutierrez ever take any

44:46

steps to slow those things down

44:48

if she was being rushed? Not

44:52

that I ever saw. Ross

44:55

also testified about two other incidents

44:57

where guns went off on the

44:59

set. It happened

45:01

on the same day, within an hour

45:03

of each other in fact. And

45:06

to be clear, these two incidents

45:08

do not include the shooting that

45:11

killed Helena Hutchins. Can

45:14

you describe the

45:16

first accidental discharge

45:18

that you recall happening? I

45:23

think the first one was

45:27

the, I don't know

45:29

if the prop master was loading

45:31

or unloading. And let me stop you.

45:33

What's the prop master's name? Sarah,

45:37

I think her name was Sarah Zachary. Okay.

45:39

What's her name? She

45:42

was, we were outside

45:45

of the character Russ's

45:47

cabin and I

45:49

don't know if she was loading or unloading

45:51

a handgun, but unannounced

45:55

to any of the crew that fire on discharge.

46:00

So we considered that a negligent

46:03

discharge. And how did you know

46:05

it discharged? I was within

46:07

feet of it and she

46:10

seemed pretty spooked when I turned around and

46:12

it appeared as though she had shot

46:15

that firearm at her foot. Can

46:19

you tell us in your experience,

46:22

in your opinion, what you think that gun

46:24

was loaded with? It

46:29

made a bang, but I don't know

46:31

if there was a bullet or not

46:34

because I don't know if it hit

46:36

her foot. But it certainly

46:38

made a loud noise that spooked us and the animals

46:40

we had on set. I think we had a couple

46:42

of horses on set and

46:44

again, it was unannounced. So it was a

46:46

surprise to everybody that was around. He

46:49

then detailed the second accidental

46:51

discharge. I

46:54

believe it was Alex Stunt-Double.

46:58

So somebody dressed up to look like

47:00

Alec was going

47:02

to be firing either some sort of

47:04

long gun. I don't remember if it

47:06

was a lever action gun or a

47:08

shotgun, something out of the

47:11

window of the

47:13

cabin towards, I

47:16

think it was the law enforcement that were chasing him

47:18

that were starting to catch up with him. There

47:21

was supposed to be some

47:23

gunfire and I believe

47:26

that Hannah

47:30

was prepping the Stunt-Double

47:32

in the cabin with

47:35

that firearm. And again,

47:37

unannounced to any of us

47:39

outside the cabin, that

47:42

firearm was discharged. And

47:44

what did it sound like? A loud

47:48

gun going on. As

48:01

Ross had said, David had been the

48:03

first assistant director for Rust. David,

48:06

who has since retired, had been working

48:09

in movies for 30 years. The

48:12

first assistant director had many duties on

48:15

the job, including keeping

48:17

the crew informed and being

48:19

the safety coordinator, so

48:21

all Union safety rules were followed.

48:25

Did you feel, personally, up

48:29

until October 21st, that

48:32

Rust was a relatively safe set? I did.

48:39

Did you yourself have

48:41

any concerns about Ms.

48:45

Gutierrez's behavior as

48:47

an armor? I did not. So,

48:53

let's talk about October 21st. She

48:57

asked him to walk the jury through what

48:59

happened that day, from his point of view.

49:02

Mr. Baldwin entered the church. He

49:06

took his position where he was needed in

49:08

the pew of the church. I'm

49:11

standing in front of

49:14

Mr. Baldwin, facing Mr. Baldwin. It

49:16

was no more than five feet from

49:19

him. I was a body width to what

49:21

would be his left. And

49:23

Ms. Gutierrez appeared

49:26

on my left-hand side with

49:29

the revolver, and she said, let's do

49:31

the gun check. She

49:34

opened up the latch to show the drama of

49:36

the revolver. She rotated the

49:38

cylinder. It was empty. Checked

49:42

the barrel. It

49:46

was what was referred to as

49:49

a cold gun. And

49:52

Ms. Gutierrez just took a few steps

49:55

and gave the gun to Mr. Baldwin.

52:01

But, sir, let me ask you, you

52:03

indicated that you only saw three

52:05

or four, you didn't see six.

52:11

I don't recall her

52:14

fully rotating the cylinder. Okay.

52:18

He said even though the cylinder

52:21

wasn't rotated, he let that safety

52:23

check pass. After

52:25

that, he said Hannah was the

52:27

one who then gave Alec Baldwin

52:29

a gun. And let me

52:31

ask you, sir, were you criminally

52:33

charged in this case? I

52:36

was. And did

52:38

you enter a no contest plea to

52:40

negligent use of a firearm? I did.

52:43

And why did you do that? When

52:47

I say why, what in

52:50

your mind caused you to be, what

52:54

caused a plea to

52:56

negligent use of a firearm to be appropriate? What

52:59

did you do that

53:03

would justify that? I

53:08

was negligent checking

53:10

the gun properly. Okay, that's the reason

53:12

that you checked it out, please. Is that right? For

53:16

Elsewhere. Santa

53:23

Fe County jurors deliberated less than

53:25

three hours before they reached their

53:27

verdict. They determined

53:29

that Hannah Gutierrez Reed was guilty

53:31

of the most serious charge against

53:34

her, involuntary manslaughter.

53:38

While behind bars awaiting her sentencing,

53:41

Hannah made phone calls from jail where

53:44

she called jurors derogatory names

53:46

for convicting her. Hannah

53:49

also said the judge was terrible.

53:52

She lamented what serving time would do

53:54

to her modeling career. Those

53:57

calls were brought up by the prosecutor

53:59

at hearing on April 15, 2024. I

54:05

wasn't sure exactly

54:08

what recommendation

54:10

would be appropriate

54:12

in this unprecedented

54:16

case until

54:20

last week when

54:22

I completed the

54:24

review of Ms. Gutierrez's jail

54:27

calls. It

54:29

was my sincere hope during

54:32

this process that

54:36

there would be some moment

54:40

when Ms. Gutierrez took

54:43

responsibility, expressed

54:47

some level of remorse that was

54:49

genuine, and

54:52

that moment has never come. Ms.

54:57

Gutierrez continues to refuse to accept

54:59

responsibility for her role in the

55:01

death of Helena Hutchins. Rather

55:07

than accept responsibility, she has chosen to

55:09

place blame on the

55:12

witnesses who testified against her, me,

55:17

you, the jurors,

55:20

the septematic and the

55:23

paramedics who tried to save Ms. Hutchins'

55:25

life. Her

55:29

jail calls, and there were probably close

55:31

to 200 of them, tell

55:36

us who Ms. Gutierrez really is. And

55:39

in the state's opinion, the content

55:42

and tone of her calls demonstrates

55:46

that Ms. Gutierrez should not

55:48

receive any type of a

55:50

reduced sentence. Helena

55:53

Hutchins died due to a cascade

55:55

of safety violations that began with

55:57

Ms. Gutierrez introducing her. reducing

56:00

live rounds to the movie set, loading

56:03

one into a prop gun, telling

56:05

the members of the crew that it was

56:07

a cold gun, thereby ensuring that it would

56:10

make its way into the hands of Mr.

56:12

Baldwin. That conduct,

56:15

absent responsibility

56:18

or remorse, is

56:21

deserving of a sentence of 18

56:23

months in the Department of Corrections

56:25

with a designation as a serious

56:27

violent offender, and that

56:30

is what the state will be requesting

56:32

today. And

56:36

those are the only arguments I intend

56:38

to make in terms of sentencing. Hannah,

56:41

who hadn't testified earlier at

56:43

trial, also spoke to the

56:45

court. First

56:47

and foremost, my heart aches

56:49

for the Hutchins family and friends and

56:52

colleagues as well. And it

56:54

has since the day this tragedy occurred. Helena

56:57

has been and always will be an

56:59

inspiration to me. I

57:02

understand she was taking too soon, and I

57:04

pray that you all find peace. I

57:08

am beyond grateful that you will survive that

57:10

terrible day. My

57:12

heart goes out to the film industry

57:15

for the devastating pain that this tragedy

57:18

caused in the old wounds that have

57:20

been reopened. I am

57:23

saddened by the way the media sensationalized

57:26

our traumatic tragedy and portrayed me as

57:28

a complete monster, which

57:30

has actually been the total opposite of what's been

57:32

in my heart. Your

57:36

Honor, when I took on rest,

57:38

I was young and I was naive, but

57:41

I took my job as seriously as I knew how

57:43

to. Despite not

57:46

having proper time, resources, and staffing, when

57:48

things got tough, I just did my

57:50

best to handle it. Today,

57:53

I humbly ask you to consider probation

57:56

a probation where I can continue to

57:58

contribute to society. I

58:00

beg you, please don't give me more time. The

58:04

jury has found me in part at

58:06

fault for this god awful tragedy. But

58:09

that makes me a monster. That makes

58:11

me human. The

58:14

judge also spoke directly to

58:16

Hannah before she handed down

58:18

her sentence. For

58:20

all the fanfare and pundits and finger pointing that

58:22

has been going on for over two years, we

58:25

were able to seat a jury of her

58:27

peers who confirmed

58:30

it could listen to the evidence

58:32

received in court and determine

58:34

the facts and apply the law. They

58:36

found Ms. Gutierrez guilty

58:39

of involuntary manslaughter. What

58:42

were some of the poignant facts that came out during

58:44

the trial? In

58:46

her police interview, she proudly owned her

58:48

position as armorer. On

58:51

October 21st, 2021, chaos

58:54

ended after the film crew walked off. Ms.

58:59

Hutchins and others were trying to rig,

59:01

if you will, how they were going to keep filming. And

59:04

what was the defendant doing while waiting? She

59:07

was loading Alec Baldwin's gun. Did

59:11

she have enough time to load the weapon safely? Plenty. Did

59:15

she load the weapon? Yes.

59:18

The dummy's in a live round. Did

59:21

she check what she was loading? No. Why? Well,

59:26

in her own words, most recently, in her

59:28

jail calls, she didn't need to be shaking

59:31

the dummies all the time. Did

59:36

she check after that? No. And

59:40

while you've heard her concerns about how she'll never work

59:42

again as an armorer leading up to the trial, have

59:44

her concerns changed? No. Here's

59:49

what she says. This whole thing

59:51

has been a character attack on her. Just

59:56

recently, in her allocution, I'm not a monster. I

1:00:00

did not hear you take accountability in your

1:00:02

allocation. You said you were sorry. You

1:00:06

were sorry, but not you were sorry for

1:00:08

what you did. You were sorry for it and

1:00:10

hope they can find peace. It was

1:00:13

your attorney that had to tell the court that

1:00:15

you were remorseful. The

1:00:20

word remorse, a deep regret coming

1:00:23

from a sense of guilt for

1:00:25

past wrongs. That's not you. Your

1:00:32

hereby sentences follow. Stand. I'm

1:00:38

sentencing you to 18 months of incarceration

1:00:40

at a New Mexico women's

1:00:42

correctional facility. I

1:00:44

find that what you did constitutes a

1:00:47

serious violent offense. It

1:00:49

was committed in a physically violent

1:00:51

manner, a fatal gunshot done

1:00:53

with your recklessness in the face of

1:00:56

knowledge that your acts were reasonably likely

1:00:58

to result in serious harm. You

1:01:00

were the armorer, the one that

1:01:02

stood between a safe weapon and

1:01:04

a weapon that could kill someone. You

1:01:07

alone turned a safe weapon into a

1:01:09

lethal weapon. But for

1:01:11

you, Ms. Hutchins would be alive. A

1:01:13

husband would have his partner and a little boy would

1:01:15

have his mother. Please

1:01:18

take her. And that's

1:01:20

all for this episode. This

1:01:22

episode was researched and written by

1:01:24

Gabrielle Roussin. As always,

1:01:26

I'd love to hear your thoughts on

1:01:28

this case. Let me know by joining

1:01:31

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1:01:36

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1:01:38

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1:01:51

Thanks again for listening. Until next time.

1:02:00

you