0:01

The prosecution called administrators from Oxford High School

0:03

to the stand to testify more about what

0:05

was going on with the shooter from the

0:07

school's point of view leading up to November

0:09

30, 2021. In

0:13

part one of this series, we went

0:15

over the prosecution's evidence against Jennifer Crumbly,

0:18

whose 15-year-old son had shot and

0:20

killed four students and injured many

0:22

others in a shooting at Oxford

0:25

High School in November 2021. Today

0:29

we continue, and we're going to jump right

0:31

into part two. This

0:33

is Jillian in partnership with Law and

0:35

Crime. You're listening to Court Junkie,

0:37

Episode 270, Part 2. I'm

0:45

always looking for ways to get myself to

0:47

drink more water, whether it's to carry around

0:49

one of those giant drink holders or using

0:52

one of those reminder cups. You know, the

0:54

ones that tell you that you should be

0:56

drinking this amount by 1 p.m., this

0:59

amount by 3 p.m. As

1:01

you likely know, drinking water is important

1:03

to staying hydrated and healthy. But

1:06

if you're like me, you'd probably rather not

1:08

drink tap water. After

1:10

all, according to extensive research by the

1:12

Environmental Working Group, three out of four

1:14

homes in America have harmful contaminants in

1:16

its tap water. No thank you.

1:19

That's why you've got to check out AquaTrue. AquaTrue

1:22

Purifiers use a four-stage

1:24

reverse osmosis purification process,

1:27

and their countertop purifiers work with

1:29

no installation or plumbing. That's

1:31

the type that my family has. It removes 15

1:34

times more contaminants than ordinary

1:36

pitcher filters. And

1:38

if you don't want the countertop version, don't

1:41

worry. They have water purifiers that fit every

1:43

type of home, including higher

1:45

capacity ones that go underneath your sink.

1:48

They even have a Wi-Fi connected

1:50

purifier and alkaline mineral options. The

1:53

technology AquaTrue uses is the same technology

1:55

used by all the major bottled water

1:58

brands. But now it's available in your

2:00

house without the plastic waste. And

2:02

the filters are affordable and long-lasting. Instead

2:05

of having to change them every two

2:07

to three months, Aqua True filters last

2:09

from six months to two years. And

2:12

I saved the best part for last. The

2:14

water tastes fantastic and I can really notice

2:16

a difference. I've been drinking

2:18

more water and so have my husband and

2:21

our kids. And with Aqua True, I know

2:23

that it's not just filtered but purified. Aqua

2:26

True comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee

2:28

and even makes a great gift. Today,

2:31

my listeners receive 20% off

2:34

any Aqua True Purifier. Just

2:36

go to aquatru.com. That's a-q-u-a-t-r-u.com and

2:43

enter the code CORT at checkout. That's

2:46

20% off any Aqua True water

2:48

purifier when you go to aquatru.com

2:50

and use the code CORT. This

2:54

chunky is brought to you by

2:56

Progressive Insurance. Let's face it, sometimes

2:58

multitasking can be overwhelming. Like

3:00

when your favorite podcast is playing and the person

3:02

next to you is talking and your car fan

3:04

is blasting, all while you're trying

3:06

to find the perfect parking spot. But

3:08

then again, sometimes multitasking is

3:11

easy, like quoting with Progressive

3:13

Insurance. They do the hard work

3:15

of comparing rates so you can find a great rate

3:17

that works for you, even if it's not

3:19

with them. Give their nifty comparison

3:21

tool a try and you might just find

3:24

getting the rate and coverage you deserve is

3:26

easy. All you need

3:28

to do is visit Progressive's website to

3:30

get a quote with all the coverages

3:32

you want, like comprehensive and collision coverage

3:35

or personal injury protection. Then

3:37

you'll see Progressive's direct rate and their tool

3:39

will provide options from other companies all lined

3:41

up and ready to compare, so it's simple

3:43

to choose the rate and coverages you like.

3:47

Press play on comparing auto rates.

3:49

Quote at progressive.com to join the

3:52

over 28 million drivers who trust

3:54

Progressive. Progressive Casualty

3:56

Insurance Company and affiliates. Comparison

3:58

rates not available. In all states

4:01

are situations. Prices vary based on

4:03

how he lies. Saunter

4:10

Pins. A counselor at Oxford High

4:12

School told the jury that in the spring

4:14

of two thousand and Twenty One, he received

4:16

an email from a staff member. I'm saying

4:19

to please call it the students sleep and

4:21

refrains You as the shooter. Down.

4:23

To his office to see how he's doing. The.

4:26

Staff member said he was falling asleep.

4:28

And feeling is class. Up

4:31

and said he would do that before the end

4:33

of the day and the staff member replied thanks.

4:36

Just a little worried. Hopkins

4:38

testified that he doesn't recall the meeting

4:40

that followed. In

4:43

September two thousand and Twenty one, a

4:45

different teacher emailed him requesting that he

4:47

meet with the shooter. This.

4:49

Teacher wrote that in his autobiography the

4:51

shooter had said he felt terrible and

4:53

that his family was a mistake. But.

4:56

Hopkins said when he talked to the teacher

4:58

again, she said she learned the shooter had

5:00

been joking with his classmates and that she

5:02

wasn't concerned. And.

5:04

November He received another email from that

5:06

he term saying that the student is

5:08

having a rough time right now. He.

5:11

Might need to speak with you. He.

5:13

Said he met with the shooter the following day.

5:16

It. Was a quick meeting in the hallway while

5:18

the shooter was on his way to class. He.

5:20

Said he told them that if he needed someone to talk

5:22

to the he could be there for him. He.

5:25

Didn't contact the students' parents. He

5:27

said it was something very typical and that all

5:29

he knew was at the kid was sad. Later

5:32

that month and November twenty ninth, he

5:34

got an email that was forwarded to

5:36

him. This teacher said that as

5:39

he was walking around the room, he noticed

5:41

that the shooter was on his phone looking

5:43

at bullets. He. Said he didn't

5:45

get a chance to investigate it since it was

5:47

at the end of class, But after reviewing some

5:49

of the shooters previous work from earlier in the

5:51

year, He. Noticed it was more on

5:54

the violent side. Hopkins.

5:56

Testified that he and another administrator met

5:58

with the shooter. Told him that

6:01

searching for those things on a phone

6:03

wasn't appropriate. The. Shooter said

6:05

he understood. After the

6:07

meeting the other administrator or called Jennifer

6:09

crumbly and left her voice mail. The.

6:13

Following morning and November thirtieth,

6:15

another teacher sent Hopkins and

6:17

the Restorative Practices coordinator an

6:19

email. That. Said the shooter

6:21

was watching videos on his phone

6:23

of a guy gunning down people.

6:26

To. Teacher said it looks like a movie

6:29

scene said it was still concerning when

6:31

taking into account some of the shooters

6:33

other behaviors. Hopkins.

6:35

Said his first reaction was here

6:37

we go again. Because. They

6:39

had just met with the shooter about

6:41

school appropriateness. After that,

6:44

a math teacher showed their dean

6:46

of students a math assignments with

6:48

disturbing drawings The shooter had drawn

6:50

on it. Happened. Said

6:52

he decided to go into the Shooters class

6:54

fan and then bring him into his office.

6:57

I first thought was I wanted to

6:59

get from. Here. Once

7:01

you what he was to.

7:04

His. Initial responses did it with

7:06

a video game no life drawing

7:08

for video games and lights being

7:10

able to. Secrecy.

7:13

And that way. So. I

7:15

let him decide it that way

7:17

of earth's and that I asked

7:19

him to talk about some of

7:21

the word for kids with without

7:23

I disappoint ago. So by this

7:25

point. And you see the

7:27

original right now. open sewers whereas

7:29

you do for you were under

7:31

seeger was better stress or some

7:34

other words it's exist at Osu.

7:36

On I I noticed the words

7:38

of i love the like com

7:40

os The thoughts on stop. I

7:42

to help me under the cross Our

7:45

part. Com. As harmless

7:47

acts said his name

7:49

he concerns bad as

7:51

may potentially. He suicidal

7:53

orbs displaying suicidal ideation Okay

7:56

sources, you take the defense.

7:58

Sonics Lisa bespoke. I

8:00

didn't taken at face value. com

8:03

I accounted for it. I'm

8:05

as his description but I wanted to make

8:07

sure that I was looking at as much

8:09

the pictures. So

8:12

when you review this. And

8:15

games before he saw the original crime.

8:18

Did you send them to ask? My point is that

8:20

since. I guess I really wanted

8:22

to point out the words that were

8:24

in the dry and because they were

8:26

easier to see and I wise you

8:28

get. Explanation for the words.

8:30

It wasn't just it's a field.

8:33

He. Said they were both wearing masks at

8:36

that point so eating really see the

8:38

suitors facial expressions as they were talking.

8:41

So when you ask more pointed questions else would

8:43

have a nest and one. His.

8:45

Demeanor and first is very fine.

8:48

Arm and as I started asking about the

8:50

words and ask him to describe the words

8:53

or sisters or it's more. Of

8:56

them are he started sharing something for

8:58

the got on. In his

9:00

life Like what Eyes you mentioned that?

9:02

a family dogs. And. Died recently.

9:05

Arms Molson Vinegar and and

9:07

pass on that you are

9:10

struggling with. Kobe has and.

9:13

With. Schools are called an. Arm

9:15

and Msnbc has an argument with his

9:17

parents about for his the night before.

9:21

To tell us of front of his

9:23

and roughly left the says did she

9:25

didn't mention this premises his left. arm

9:28

he didn't see the states as was in

9:30

attendance. Furthermore, He. Said he decided

9:32

to call center for crumbly. He was

9:34

concerned about her son's well being. He.

9:37

Testified that he told the shooter what he was

9:39

going to jail and asked him which parent he

9:41

wanted him to call. This sooner

9:44

told them it would be easier to get a hold of

9:46

his mom. She. Didn't answer and

9:48

so we asked the shooter if he could call

9:50

his dad and he said yes. He.

9:52

Told seems crumbly and at first it sounded like

9:55

there was an answer, but it was dead air

9:57

on the phone so he hung up. A

10:00

few minutes later, Jennifer calls him back. He

10:03

requested that she come in to meet with

10:05

him saying he had concerns. About the

10:07

shooter safety. She. Told them

10:09

she was hoping Genes would be able to down

10:11

that would be difficult for her to leave work

10:13

and get there. She. Said it would

10:15

take her about thirty minutes to get to the school.

10:19

He. Testified that he sent her the mouth

10:21

of worksheets. Approximately ten minutes

10:23

later, she said she was unable to get

10:25

a hold of jeans and that she would

10:28

be on her way. While.

10:30

He waited. There was a conversation

10:32

between Hopkins, the shooter and the

10:35

Dean. Mister he jacked. That

10:37

sounds a lot of season.

10:40

Of result of them on. My.

10:42

Hope is is a recess I'm a plan

10:44

to get help for this. Was.

10:47

Your facemask the was a for some home.

10:50

And was my fault Divorce. When.

10:52

Jennifer and Seems arrived at ten forty

10:54

am happy and said he greeted them

10:56

in the lobby and they went to

10:58

his office. Remarks as

11:01

into my office the students

11:03

and their arm. And

11:05

then I've mom and dad sat

11:08

down other words in my office

11:10

used directly across from me and

11:12

then why on it was and

11:14

of off the corner of my

11:16

fast a little more on the

11:18

suit was in one of the

11:20

to occur to me as that

11:22

and one of those and mom's

11:25

back in the one that was

11:27

more. From.

11:29

Where I. Went. To the

11:31

and her husband wanted to be as

11:34

the sun about my never enough of

11:36

it is either one of them have

11:38

versa. Is

11:40

instead he. Doesn't

11:42

mean I said ah man I. Ah,

11:45

win over some of the same

11:47

space I had thought through over

11:50

the past two days with their

11:52

son. Or my wanted to

11:54

comfort is something that has insurance sites and

11:56

for as long as it's he says he

11:58

says. From. Me

12:00

find the Day before. I

12:03

just confirmed it. While was

12:05

seated in that meeting was

12:07

face on a mass transit

12:09

see fifty seven that that

12:11

was on and then I

12:13

went over in the same

12:15

set eyes for businesses itself

12:17

from. Two

12:20

days of festivals you are asking?

12:24

For further information was the series any additional

12:26

was missing. The. National.

12:28

Never enough. When. Asked to

12:31

describe Jennifer, his demeanor, He said

12:33

she felt a little bit distant, like it

12:35

was a bit as an inconvenience to be

12:37

there. He. Said he asked.

12:39

The parents confirmed that shooting guns was a

12:41

hobby that they undertook as a family. And.

12:44

That they had gone to The Reigns over the

12:46

weekend. He. Also mentioned how the

12:48

shooter said that he was sad that

12:50

his friend had recently moved. That

12:53

their family dogs had passed away.

12:55

And that cove? it was hard on him.

12:57

He. Said it didn't feel like any of

13:00

that was new information to Jennifer or

13:02

Jane's. He. Testified that

13:04

he was hoping the shooter could get the

13:06

support he needed as soon as possible. He.

13:09

Said he didn't want the suit or less alone

13:11

at that point and that's why he had kept

13:13

him in his office until his parents came. He.

13:16

Said he doesn't recall if he communicated

13:18

that to Jennifer or not. So

13:20

to do harm. Discuss

13:22

was supposed to communicate your hopes of

13:24

a second home to visit them. Yeah

13:27

I'm I'm I'm my words. Where

13:29

I wanted to be seen as

13:31

soon as possible on Small and

13:34

I have provided a list of

13:36

most of our resources are inherited

13:38

that know he was a mental

13:40

health resources to do Spain will

13:42

be more than down multiple pieces

13:44

of best friend. Services.

13:47

Throughout the area on

13:49

what they specialize ban.

13:51

On whether they tested in

13:53

science and art and contact

13:55

information for those officers. There. In

14:00

the defendant in her husband. I. Love it!

14:02

It's about. How. Would you

14:04

communicated your your expectations? Most

14:07

of those Muslims. I

14:09

didn't feel as if it was in absolute

14:12

now that it is neat place there that

14:14

it's impossible to assess why he say with

14:16

me there was a passenger as he has

14:19

to rescind to work in there are

14:21

unable to do as that goes to said

14:23

that man's. Man's. And. this

14:27

is be fourteen of it's own is as

14:29

well as up another some senior that. So

14:33

what? Happiness? Ah, My. Then

14:36

I said I'd like to see him

14:38

as soon as possible. Today's past month

14:41

or so today is not possible. So

14:43

I said if forty hours possible I

14:45

wish I would be fox. News

14:48

doesn't really isn't a pass any one

14:50

through says it's since insist on the

14:52

with them as an. Ice

14:55

has not had that happen as. Soon.

14:59

As possible doesn't have a. Whole

15:03

host of a little further

15:05

has ever asked her. Sister

15:08

cell phone and I said. I'd

15:13

encourage parents to be able

15:15

to get their son or

15:17

daughter health and Air B

15:19

I have never left. Feeling

15:22

like I needed for us. To

15:24

make his house. He. Said he

15:27

wasn't expecting that type of response. He.

15:29

Was surprised that their willingness to come to

15:31

the school, but they're not to go further

15:33

with at. Home. To defend

15:36

the husband is your opinion was

15:38

the throwing himself suicidal ideation. The

15:40

rest that was that was like

15:43

a man and I see that

15:45

of Isi as somebody who was

15:47

showing signs that could be associated

15:50

with suicide. And sizes and

15:52

out it's just an abundance of

15:54

classified as may serve. As.

15:56

the season was able to get out of it

15:58

was really do that I did. Did

16:05

you specifically ask them to take them home

16:07

at home? I did not specifically ask them

16:09

to take them home. I asked

16:11

them to take him to get

16:13

help and therapy to get him. He

16:16

said when it was made clear to him that

16:18

neither James nor Jennifer were going to take their

16:21

son home, his next step was

16:23

to see what the other options were. He

16:26

said he didn't want the shooter to be alone. He

16:29

testified that the shooter requested that he be

16:31

allowed to stay at school and his parents

16:33

were on board with that. Hopkins

16:35

asked the dean if anything would prevent

16:37

him from returning to class and

16:39

the dean said no. How did

16:41

the meeting end? Tell us about that. The

16:46

meeting at that point ended fairly

16:48

abruptly. What do you mean by

16:50

that? Well at that point we

16:52

had a student wanting to return to class. I

16:55

knew that he wasn't going to be

16:57

able to be removed to go get

16:59

therapy that day. So I

17:02

was kind of left with an option of open this student.

17:04

I can't keep a student from class if there

17:07

isn't a reason to keep him from taking him.

17:10

I asked if there was a different

17:13

reason and once we had kind of

17:15

gotten to that point, I

17:17

allowed the student to go back to class

17:20

based on the information

17:22

I had and then mom asked

17:24

if he would die. Don't prefer words

17:26

every day. Hopkins

17:29

said he wrote the shooter a pass to allow him

17:31

to go back to class. He said

17:33

he doesn't remember Jennifer or James saying

17:35

anything to their son or giving him

17:37

a hug before he walked out. He

17:40

told the jury that the meeting lasted less than 15

17:43

minutes. He handed the

17:45

parents the referral sheet and the parents left.

17:48

His plan to follow up was to meet

17:50

with the student again the following morning to

17:52

see if there had been more discussions or

17:54

plans about getting help. And if

17:56

there hadn't been, he was going to

17:58

call child protective. services. Finding

18:06

the perfect t-shirt isn't easy. Sometimes

18:09

the sleeves are too long, the material

18:11

isn't very comfortable, or it's

18:13

too loose in the wrong places. But

18:15

luckily, the perfect t-shirt does exist,

18:18

and in my opinion, you can find it at

18:20

Skims. I've been a customer of

18:22

Skims for quite a while, and now that the

18:24

weather is warmer where I am, I'm

18:27

wearing t-shirts whenever possible, including when I

18:29

go out to dinner. And I

18:31

can pull off that look with Skims. Their

18:33

t-shirts are probably the comfiest ones I own,

18:36

and they look nice, too. Skims

18:39

soft-smoothing t-shirt, for example, is one of

18:41

the best t-shirts I've ever worn. I

18:43

have it in the color Onyx, and the fabric

18:46

is so smooth it's like butter. I recently

18:48

wore it under a blazer when I went out to

18:50

dinner with one of my girlfriends, and it was perfect.

18:53

And not only do I love that one,

18:55

but I also have their cotton jersey t-shirt

18:58

in Kyanite, and this one fits perfectly in

19:00

all the right places. I recently paired it

19:02

with a pair of those loose dress pants,

19:05

and I thought it looked really cute. Shop

19:07

at the Skims t-shirt shop

19:10

at skims.com, now available in

19:12

sizes extra extra small to

19:14

4X. If you haven't

19:16

yet, be sure to let them know I

19:18

sent you. After you place your order, select

19:20

podcast in the survey, and select Port Junkie

19:23

in the drop-down menu that follows. That's

19:26

at skims.com. skims.com.

19:32

You don't just live in your home. You

19:34

live in your neighborhood as well. When you're

19:36

shopping for a home, you want to know

19:38

as much about the area around it as

19:40

possible. Luckily, homes.com has

19:43

got you covered. Each listing

19:45

features a comprehensive neighborhood guide from

19:47

local experts. Everything you'd ever

19:49

want to know about a neighborhood, including

19:52

the number of homes for

19:54

sale, transportation, local amenities, cultural

19:57

attractions, unique qualities, and even

20:00

like median lot size and a noise

20:02

score. homes.com, we've done

20:04

your homework. One

20:10

of Jennifer Crumbly's co-workers at the real

20:12

estate company where she worked testified

20:14

that she heard Jennifer get the call from

20:16

the school on the morning of the shooting.

20:19

She received a call and there was

20:22

another call afterwards, but

20:24

there was a little bit of time in between the

20:27

calls. But she told me

20:29

how she was about to leave because of

20:31

the call. So she came over and showed

20:33

me something on her phone and said

20:35

she had to go. Do you remember what she showed

20:38

you? She showed me the drawing that her

20:41

son had drawn at school. Did

20:44

she tell you how she got that drawing? She said

20:46

the school had sent it to her. And

20:48

how did she show it to you? It was on

20:50

her phone and she just held it up and she

20:52

said, this is what I got to school today. And

20:54

what was your response to that? I looked

20:57

at it and I thought it was scary. I thought it

20:59

was intimidating to see the pictures

21:01

that were on there. And what was

21:03

Jennifer's response? She

21:06

was just, she didn't seem

21:08

overly worried, but she didn't seem like she

21:10

was blowing it off. I think she was

21:12

getting ready to go to the school. She was coming over to let me

21:14

know she was leaving. I don't think Andy was there yet. So

21:17

it was more of like a, if you see him, let him know. She

21:20

said she spoke to Jennifer again when she returned

21:22

to work after going to the school. She

21:25

came in and it was kind of just, she

21:28

has kind of a sarcastic personality.

21:31

So when she came in she had a physically slumptious,

21:35

said, I feel like a failure in the parents.

21:38

And she said that there was a meeting at

21:40

the school and that there

21:43

were the drawings and they were worried about him

21:45

and that he needed to get into counseling within

21:47

48 hours. Okay, what was

21:49

your response? I just

21:52

said that that was, I said

21:54

I was sorry. I think I said something

21:56

along the lines of that, just showing some

21:59

courage and compassion. for what was going on. She

22:02

went into a little more detail about the drawing and

22:04

talked to me about it. And

22:06

she showed me the drawing while she gave me

22:08

detail on it? I know

22:10

I saw it before the meeting, but I don't

22:13

remember if she showed it to me again, to

22:15

be honest. But I don't remember

22:17

if I saw it after two. We

22:19

talked about it, and I just remember telling her that,

22:22

you know, it was scary. And

22:24

maybe she should spend some time with

22:26

him to make a good thing. Did

22:28

she ask you or by the phone? She didn't ask for

22:30

it, no. What was the advice

22:32

that you gave? I just said that I think

22:36

I would have brought my son home if it didn't happen

22:38

to me. Something along the lines

22:40

of that, I just said I would have brought my son home. She

22:42

said a little later, Jennifer very abruptly

22:45

jumped up, ran over to talk to

22:47

their boss, and then ran out the

22:49

door. Detective

22:51

Adam Stoyak took the stand and testified that

22:54

he was there when the search warrant on

22:56

the crumbly home was executed. He

22:58

said the shooter had two bedrooms, and he

23:00

described them for the jury. So

23:03

what are we looking at here in this photograph? Is

23:05

it 164? Yeah,

23:07

so this was, I was made aware of this

23:09

in the shooter's bedroom. The

23:12

bed was covered with various names. There's school books

23:14

on it. There was targets visible

23:16

on the wall that had those

23:19

apparently bullet holes in them. Okay,

23:21

I'm gonna do another angle here. This is

23:24

155, this is the same bedroom. Correct.

23:27

So what are we looking at here? Yeah, so

23:29

that was the shooter had a dresser, it

23:31

looked like TV, there was things all over the floor. There

23:36

was things all over the place really. So

23:38

that boarded up window in the back, that

23:42

was adjacent to the master bedroom, right? Correct.

23:45

Okay. In the master bedroom,

23:47

there was an open gun case, an

23:49

empty box of nine millimeter ammunition on

23:51

the bed. He testified

23:53

that he spoke to James Crumbly, who

23:56

was very cooperative. James Gave him the

23:58

code to access the... The if in

24:01

his bedroom which contained the families

24:03

other guns, a Derringer and to

24:05

Caltech. Sarkozy. Suddenly

24:07

years ago, Okay,

24:10

and Solace or Humans by Yourself

24:12

as well as Zero Zero Sir

24:14

Books in as the default both

24:17

poses a threat or it. says.

24:20

Matthew Pesky was also there at the

24:22

crumbling home while the search warrant was

24:24

being execute. It. He. Said he

24:26

spoke to Jennifer while she was in the back of

24:28

his police car. He said she wasn't

24:30

in custody and that he just wanted to have

24:33

a conversation with her. While.

24:35

In the car, Jennifer expressed disbelief that

24:37

her son could have done this. Saying

24:40

that he was a good kid, loved

24:42

animals and had never really gotten into

24:44

trouble. I don't get it she

24:46

kept saying. A

24:49

detective sergeant with the fugitive apprehensive

24:51

team testified about how he tracked

24:53

Jennifer in chains, crumbly in the

24:55

days after the sudden. He.

24:57

Said he discovered one of the plan these

24:59

vehicles was in Detroit and so they went

25:01

there. He finally discovered the

25:04

crumbling is at an acquaintances art

25:06

studio. On. Cross he agreed

25:08

that he wouldn't have been aware of.

25:10

Jennifer had hired an attorney who had

25:12

then filed for an appearance that the

25:14

courts. Brian the

25:17

last testified that he went to high

25:19

school with Center for a New Jeans.

25:21

He. Said he had never met their son. He.

25:24

Told the jury that he and Jennifer

25:26

use to communicate regularly. When.

25:28

Asked if Jennifer. Ever talk to him

25:30

about issues? With her son, he said

25:32

no. But. She did tell him

25:34

that his friend had kills himself. He.

25:37

Came to learn later that wasn't true.

25:40

And the morning of November thirtieth,

25:42

He recalled receiving a message from

25:44

Jennifer. Say

25:47

i don't know how it

25:50

started about forty and of

25:52

they have said go to

25:55

school for is scheduled for

25:57

okay he ends. With.

26:00

In some he would have to mess with. ours isn't. That.

26:03

Something. Is given. Her

26:06

son just progress as of was

26:08

worried. Of

26:10

nice going to do something dumb

26:12

who's worth. Of junk for germs

26:15

his word Progress in see this is a

26:17

message. Before. She's gone

26:19

to dismiss just. He. Was

26:21

asked if he was aware that Jennifer and

26:23

Seems had bought their son a handgun and

26:26

he said yes. He has seen

26:28

it unsafe but. His. Initial reaction

26:30

he said was surprised. Many.

26:34

Artists as bad as a

26:37

efforts are said. Of

26:39

as soon as it got to be

26:41

done by the time is Jennifer masses

26:43

you a number of the thirtieth as

26:45

she was afraid for something to do.

26:47

something Just okay. Now when she says

26:49

she's that masses of hundred thirty, what

26:52

was your response? Of. Well

26:54

as I asked where the fire on

26:57

was in one wise is green firearm

26:59

to keep your head with apple. Of

27:02

those. with

27:04

that background everyday as I I know

27:06

that would. Be

27:08

severe with yeah curve of that

27:10

would be for it as images

27:13

irreparable damage to go to Any

27:15

other possible thing is. That

27:19

the fire? Yes. He. Said Jennifer

27:21

responded that the done with and her

27:23

via phone. He said he told

27:25

her that wasn't good at guns shouldn't be

27:27

there. Later. That day

27:29

he learned about what had happened through

27:32

social media and the news. Now

27:34

after the shooting did you can see

27:36

me he was over. Yes,

27:40

I'm. Now

27:42

we have our to introduce evidence

27:44

through in the next version from

27:46

forensics about how messages are saved

27:48

and if one person who is

27:50

more person doesn't use Hola says

27:52

you had tweeted those messages as.

27:55

Yes, Yes,

27:58

yes, Is it? Ah,

28:02

The search for was executed from Facebook

28:04

itself. It takes some messages. In

28:07

Iran we already have you seen these

28:09

matters to him Rothys emergency Summit the

28:11

for needing feast of message from them

28:14

is similar schemes and for congress as

28:16

new exhibit there for some sense. Additional

28:19

messages between Brian and Jennifer

28:21

resounds The Cherry. One.

28:23

Conversation was from the late evening hours

28:25

on Nov thirty, as. He.

28:27

Testified that they had spoken on the

28:29

phone after the shooting and she had

28:31

told him that the suitors nine millimeter

28:33

was missing. He. Said he told

28:36

her and the message conversation to call Nine

28:38

One One and let them know. In

28:41

another conversation that following night. Jennifer

28:44

said she sailed as a parent

28:46

miserably. He. Responded that she

28:48

didn't do this. In

28:51

another one, Brian expressed disbelief that

28:53

Jennifer was going to. Be. Charged.

28:56

Not fair to say about

28:58

one insider information received regarding

29:00

the soon. as

29:06

their fourth is not. Obsessively

29:09

lot of s. Lot. Of

29:11

out So throughout the such

29:13

methods or facebook message summer

29:15

season there's messages from you.

29:18

Are expressing concern over Jennifer?

29:20

Com are frustration that status

29:22

is going Sars Disbelieve the

29:24

security of Sars with us

29:27

Europeans at a time. Yes,

29:29

focus is on I agree

29:31

or disagree with. just wanted

29:33

to say so zapping feel

29:36

now. As

29:38

as as receive are in

29:40

full of hours. Later.

29:42

Jennifer sent a screenshot from Syrup

29:45

Connect and. Wrote seriously.

29:47

With. A bunch of exclamation points and

29:50

question marks. Can't. See my

29:52

horses. He responded

29:54

that no one knows how to handle any

29:56

of that. in

29:58

the evening hours of december She

30:01

told him that she had heard they were going to

30:03

get charged. He told her, I did

30:05

hear that. I don't know how

30:07

both of you could be charged. I can

30:09

only assume they will charge James with the

30:12

handgun not being secured. In

30:15

a deleted message, Jennifer wrote, it

30:17

was, we had the string lock on it. It

30:19

came with it in the case. Okay,

30:22

now you had talked to her via

30:25

message on the morning of November the

30:27

30th, 2021 when she told

30:30

you about having to go to school,

30:32

right? Yes, okay. Prior

30:34

to this message coming to you on

30:37

Wednesday, December the 1st, 2021 in the evening hours, did

30:42

she mention anything about a locking mechanism for

30:44

the gun? No. Later that

30:46

evening, in another deleted message, Jennifer

30:48

wrote, everything was secured,

30:51

not loaded, bullets stored

30:53

away separately. OMG, OMG,

30:55

OMG. The

30:58

following day she wrote that she will

31:00

never be okay, that her son is

31:02

a murderer and that life isn't even

31:04

worth living anymore. She

31:07

also said her mom won't talk to her. She

31:10

blames us, she wrote. In

31:13

another deleted message, she wrote that

31:15

they are on the run again

31:18

and described helicopters overhead. She

31:20

said, not sure where to, I'll

31:22

message you. A

31:25

little later, she told them they bought

31:27

new cell phones with old numbers and

31:29

then said, clear your cash,

31:32

to which she responded, good move.

31:35

What do you take that clear cash to me?

31:37

What does that mean? Clear

31:39

messages off, I guess. Off of a

31:41

device? Yes. Later, she

31:44

wrote to him, we're fucked. Prosecutor

31:47

Keith showed him some pictures Jennifer had

31:49

sent him of that math worksheet her

31:51

son had drawn on. Tell

31:54

us about that. There's a gun

31:57

and a person bleeding. And

32:02

the thoughts won't stop. I

32:05

can't recall about it anymore. But

32:08

then, we recall

32:10

that. Yes. OK. And what

32:13

did you think of that?

32:15

Disturbing. OK. And she sent

32:17

that to you. And then what did she

32:19

say in that message right after

32:21

she sent you that picture? This is

32:24

what they found in that threat. OK. She was

32:26

referring. Who did you think she was referring to?

32:29

A school. A school? OK. And

32:32

let's go to the conversation. When did you know? And

32:34

never even notified a liaison officer. That was

32:36

your question to her? Yes, sir. And what

32:38

was her response? But the

32:41

paper they showed us showed

32:43

it is had all these things scratched out.

32:46

OK. Now, did you know

32:48

that she was actually sent the paper without

32:50

things scratched out? No. On

32:54

cross, Jennifer's attorney, Shannon Smith,

32:57

said she wanted to talk about Brian's

32:59

involvement in the case. She

33:01

brought up interviews he had given to

33:03

police and how detectives made him change

33:06

his mind about certain things. Prosecutor

33:09

Key subjected, saying that

33:11

Smith was coming close to opening

33:13

the door about this particular witness.

33:16

Judge, objection, we're getting dangerously close to what

33:18

defense wants a lot of thought to exclude.

33:20

And I need to be able to redirect.

33:22

Yeah. Yeah. Let's just hear a fact. What

33:25

is the door open? Let's just hear a fact.

33:27

Is the council is going to lay the implication of

33:31

a certain reason? Well, I was

33:33

here, suggesting whether law

33:36

enforcement threatened him and everything,

33:38

but I. Yeah.

33:41

Then the door is wide open for the people.

33:43

It might be. Thank you, Jennifer.

33:46

Well, I don't care if the door

33:48

is open. That's fine. Ms.

33:50

Haring. Yeah. I think we need to

33:52

excuse the jury and have the defendant

33:55

make the record. The

33:57

jury left and the prosecutor and defense attorney

33:59

began to arguing in front of the

34:01

judge. The witness, Brian

34:03

Milosh, had been involved in an

34:05

affair with Jennifer Crumbly, which was

34:07

something the defense had initially wanted

34:09

to keep from coming out. But

34:12

now, with Smith questioning him the way

34:14

she was, the door was

34:17

about to be opened, something Smith said

34:19

she was now open to. She

34:21

said she was okay with opening the

34:23

door and wanted to fully cross-examine the

34:26

witness. The judge had

34:28

Jennifer agree with this on the record. When

34:31

the jury came back, Smith continued

34:34

with her cross-examination. She

34:36

asked if there were any threats made

34:39

to him and he said no, but

34:41

there were veiled threats about revealing the

34:43

affair if he didn't tell the detectives

34:45

everything. He agreed

34:48

that when Jennifer texted him to clear

34:50

his cash, it may have

34:52

meant checking the status of

34:54

James's Facebook account and not

34:56

deleting messages. When

34:58

she's trying to find out if

35:00

his account has been effectively

35:03

deactivated, what

35:06

did you do to see if the account

35:08

had been deactivated? What

35:10

it says, I cleared my cash, it

35:13

means I wanted Facebook cleared the cash,

35:15

which keeps, um, I

35:18

don't know the computer terminology, but it

35:20

keeps track stuff and whatever, so that

35:22

kind of would make it refresh and

35:25

get a fresh view. So you wanted

35:27

to refresh it to get a fresh

35:29

view to see if the open account

35:31

was done closed? Correct. So this is

35:33

not about deleting messages, this is about

35:36

checking the status of the Facebook account.

35:38

I'm asking him if he was able

35:42

to answer the email. Did you believe this

35:44

message exchange was to find

35:47

out if James's

35:49

Facebook was closed? Yes,

35:51

that's what it looks like every now and then. He

35:54

also agreed that he had texted Jennifer's

35:56

screenshots of numerous threats against her he

35:58

had seen online. from after the

36:00

shooting. He agreed that he

36:02

told her she needed to disappear. Lieutenant

36:07

Timothy Willis testified about what was

36:09

found in the shooter's backpack, which

36:11

was recovered from one of the bathrooms at the

36:14

school. There were over 90 loose

36:16

leaf papers inside and over 50

36:19

had drawings of firearms on them.

36:22

There was also a 22 page

36:25

journal located with the backpack.

36:28

Out of that notebook, how many pieces

36:30

of paper have actual writing? Twenty-two.

36:34

And does

36:36

one of those 22 pages include

36:39

the drawing of the quote from a book? Yes.

36:42

Now, remaining

36:45

21, how many

36:47

reference the school students? Every

36:49

single one. One of

36:51

the entries read, I have zero

36:54

help for my mental problems and it's

36:56

causing me to shoot up the fucking

36:58

school. In

37:00

another one, the shooter wrote, I

37:03

want help, but my parents don't listen to

37:05

me. So I can't get any help.

37:08

Another entry read, my

37:11

parents won't listen to me about help

37:13

or a therapist. There

37:16

were also entries about his desire

37:18

to purchase a nine millimeter handgun.

37:21

I want to shoot up the fucking school so

37:23

badly. Soon I am going

37:25

to buy a nine millimeter pistol. He wrote

37:29

in another entry. He wrote, I'm

37:31

about to shoot up the school and spend the rest

37:34

of my life in prison. In

37:37

another first off, I got my

37:39

gun. It's a SP 2022 SIG

37:41

Sauer nine millimeter. Second,

37:45

the shooting is tomorrow. I

37:48

have access to the gun and the ammo. I

37:50

am fully committed to this now. So

37:53

yeah, I'm going to prison for life

37:55

and many people have about one day

37:57

left to live. Lieutenant

38:01

Willis said there were large drawings in

38:03

the journal also. One

38:05

was of a firearm pointed at the back of

38:07

a woman's head. Another

38:09

one depicted a 9mm caliber round versus a 22

38:11

caliber round. When

38:20

it was time for the defense to call

38:22

their witnesses, they called Jennifer Crumbly to the

38:24

stand. She told the

38:26

jury that she and her husband James had been

38:28

together for about 18 years, but

38:31

that she hasn't spoken to him since the day

38:33

they were arrested. She

38:35

was asked to describe their son and the

38:37

sorts of things he was into. Oh,

38:40

he was really into bowling. He was actually really good at

38:43

it. He was into

38:45

metal detecting. He was...

38:47

What do you mean by metal detecting? He was a metal detector,

38:50

so we would go to the

38:52

beach and we went to Florida out by

38:54

the ocean or the neighbor's yard. They weren't

38:56

there anymore, so we'd go in the neighbor's yard and see

38:59

if he could find old coins or cans or whatever he

39:01

would find. But he was really like that. He

39:04

was into... He'd be

39:06

begun with target practice. We had

39:08

a half acre of land in

39:10

the village of Oxford that went straight back. So in

39:12

the backyard we set up little targets that we

39:14

got from Amazon. We can just kind of shoot down with

39:17

a little whatever. He

39:22

was into the video games. He

39:25

did soccer from age three until

39:27

ninth grade. He had a

39:30

lot of different interests, coin selecting.

39:33

She said she and her son

39:36

loved to ski together, go swimming,

39:38

play virtual reality games together, and

39:41

just pretty normal things, she said. She

39:43

said he was good at school if he applied

39:46

himself, but she said his problem was that

39:48

he didn't try as hard as she thought he could.

39:51

He would battle with him about missing

39:53

assignments. She

39:55

testified that she was having a six

39:57

month extramarital affair with Brian Millon. but

40:01

that she only saw him an average of about

40:03

once a week. She said it didn't cause

40:05

her to neglect her sin in any way.

40:08

Explain why you don't feel that's the

40:10

case. Because when I met with

40:12

Brian, it was in the morning on his

40:15

way home from the station. He would pass my

40:17

work. And so the time I

40:20

was coming to work, we would meet at the Castle

40:22

parking lot. And

40:24

that was it. He got about his day. I go about

40:26

mine. And is it fair

40:28

to say that you lied to keep that affair

40:30

going? Yes, I did. During

40:33

the prosecution's case, they had showed

40:35

the jury photos of the crumbly

40:37

home, which was clearly in disarray.

40:40

We saw pictures of your house. How

40:42

did you feel about seeing those pictures? Horrible.

40:45

Okay, why's that? Um, because my son

40:48

has a very messy room and

40:50

it was

40:52

right after Thanksgiving, like right after

40:54

Thanksgiving, and we hosted Thanksgiving. And

40:58

it was pretty messy. It was kind of

41:00

embarrassing. Okay. It was really embarrassing. Explain the

41:02

two bedroom thing. What was going on with that? Um,

41:04

so Ethan, sorry, my son, he had one bedroom and

41:06

it was out of control. And

41:10

every time I go to clean it, I just shut the door. I just didn't

41:12

want to deal with it. So then I told him he

41:14

could just use the guest bedroom and I could get his

41:16

room gate clean. The day

41:18

before Thanksgiving, I was de-cleaning. We had

41:20

people over every Thanksgiving. And

41:23

my intention was to clean both rooms. But

41:25

I caught my oven on fire in

41:27

the soft clean mode. So instead,

41:30

I had the fire department out and everything.

41:33

So instead of his room clean, I was scraping out

41:36

the black charcoal stuff inside the oven so

41:38

I could pick dinner the next day. But

41:41

yeah, he was in a second bedroom because I just, I

41:43

didn't want to clean his room anymore. It

41:45

was just, it was enough. Did you have

41:47

any plans to do anything with

41:49

all that stuff? Yeah. We're

41:51

going through a lot of stuff because the outgrew a lot

41:53

of the clothes and the shoes. There's a lot of toilet

41:56

things that he doesn't use anymore. So we're

41:58

just going to pack it up and donate.

42:00

Okay, and when were you planning to do that? Between

42:05

Thanksgiving and Christmas before he got new stuff.

42:08

She admitted that she would discuss her horses

42:10

with James a lot more than they would

42:12

talk about their son. Why was that?

42:16

Because my

42:19

horses at least were accident

42:21

prone and my husband didn't know a

42:24

lot about horses. They were more my thing. With

42:26

him working from home, a lot of times

42:28

I'd have him go out and check on him, tell him what to do.

42:31

He started again to him. He had questions. I

42:34

knew my son was at school and he

42:37

was at during the day and talked to him after school.

42:39

Horses can't talk, so if something's wrong, we've got to

42:41

kind of figure it out. But yeah, we talked a

42:43

lot about horses. She said she thought

42:45

she and her son were pretty close. They

42:48

would talk and do a lot of things together. She

42:50

said she trusted him and felt like she

42:53

had an open door, that he could come

42:55

to her with anything. With

42:57

regard to your son, did

42:59

you ever go through his text messages,

43:01

go through his bedroom? What

43:04

kind of a parent were you in terms

43:06

of going through those things? I did not

43:09

go through his text messages. I

43:11

didn't have a reason to. His

43:14

bedroom I would go through when I clean it. I'd come across

43:16

things. I'd look through it to see if there was something in

43:18

the key for throw away. So I

43:20

never went through his text messages. What

43:23

about you just came up with his grades? Did

43:27

you end up having discipline issues with him?

43:30

A couple of times we did, yes. What

43:32

kind of things would those be over? Missing

43:35

assignments and grades. Any

43:38

other things that were discipline issues?

43:41

No. That's cool or at home?

43:44

No. She recalled taking his phone away

43:46

a couple of times, along with his

43:48

video games, due to him missing assignments.

43:51

She said he got really angry about it. I

43:54

want to talk about mental health. Did

43:56

you ever believe that your

43:58

son needed a child? mental health

44:01

treatment therapy counseling anything?

44:04

No, I mean there's a couple of times

44:06

where Ethan has expressed

44:08

anxiety overtaking tests, anxiety

44:12

about what he was going to do after

44:14

high school whether it was college, military,

44:17

so he expressed those those concerns to me

44:22

but not not to a level where I

44:24

felt he needed to go be a psychiatrist

44:26

or mental health professional by the way. Did

44:29

you ever deny

44:33

him or say no I'm not going

44:35

to take you to a

44:38

mental health professional? Did he ever ask you? No,

44:41

I mean he one time

44:43

when he was talking about what he wanted to

44:45

do for the first future I don't know he just he

44:47

was feeling really down about it for us. We

44:50

did we did my husband did call his

44:52

school counselor to try to talk to him

44:55

because I do a lot of future academic

44:57

planning with the tech school. Was that

45:00

a mental health issue? No it was

45:02

more or less addressing what was upsetting

45:04

my son at that time. Okay and

45:06

what was the what was upsetting him? The fact

45:09

that he didn't know what he wanted to do his grades

45:11

weren't that great so he was stressed out about getting into

45:13

college. He just

45:16

he was just having a hard time with his future goals.

45:20

She was asked about the emails teachers

45:22

had sent to the school counselor about

45:24

how her son was failing a class

45:26

and falling asleep. She said

45:28

she wasn't aware that he had been sleeping and

45:30

that no one had let her know about that.

45:33

She was asked if she recalled the text messages her

45:35

son had sent to her in March of 2021 when

45:37

he told her that there were demons

45:41

in the house and he asked her to

45:43

please at least text him back. Do

45:46

you recall this date on March 17th 2021? It

45:53

didn't pick out to me until his poll. No

45:57

I don't I don't recall it exactly. I

46:00

just remember it ever since we

46:02

got discovered on the site. Okay, so

46:05

on March

46:07

17th, there

46:10

was a point when

46:13

you, did you ever see these tests? I

46:15

probably didn't. Not

46:18

that time. Do you recall

46:20

seeing these tests at any point,

46:22

prior to the case? I'm

46:27

sure I did, but they didn't, they

46:29

weren't, no, I don't know,

46:31

I mean, I'm sure I saw them, but they didn't stick

46:33

out to me until the case. Why didn't they stick

46:35

out to you? Because it wasn't, it

46:38

wasn't anything that was anything

46:40

serious. It was Ethan just messing

46:42

around. You gotta explain to the

46:44

jury, how did Ethan mess around?

46:46

Um, he's

46:49

been convinced our house has been haunted since 2015.

46:52

It was built in 1920. Um,

46:54

around that time frame, him

46:57

and his friend would go down to the basement

46:59

and play a Ouija board. So, they thought we

47:01

had a house built. Um, so it

47:04

was around that time when he would mess with

47:06

us that things were going on in the house.

47:08

Uh, so we're was flying across the room, um,

47:11

doors were slamming. He actually took

47:13

a video of the door and showed

47:16

me when I got home. And

47:18

you can clearly see where he's standing back with

47:20

his phone, looking at the door that's open. You

47:22

can see him walk up the door and you can kind

47:24

of see him slam it as him trying to say, see

47:27

our house is haunted. So, that kind

47:29

of stuff that he did. Okay,

47:31

and did that continue on into

47:33

2021 when you'd get

47:36

messages like this? Um, only a couple of times and

47:38

I think it just, he just got over it. Like

47:42

it wasn't, he got bored with messing

47:44

around with the ghost. Did you mess

47:46

around with him? Yes. Okay, what did you do

47:48

to him? Um, when they were downstairs in the

47:50

basement playing Ouija board one night, I went

47:53

and put the circuit breaker off in the

47:55

house. And he thought

47:57

it was the ghost they conjured up in the

47:59

Ouija board. She said

48:01

she didn't think he was having mental issues,

48:03

just that he was messing with them, which

48:05

is something he normally did. Smith

48:08

read off the text messages her son had

48:10

sent to his friend, in which

48:13

he said he had asked his parents to take him

48:15

to the doctor. Jennifer

48:17

said she doesn't recall him ever asking

48:19

them that. Then he

48:22

says, my mom laughed when I told

48:24

her. Was there ever

48:26

a time where he's asking for help and

48:28

you're laughing? He

48:31

writes his frames, and this is just later

48:33

that night, but I'm having

48:35

bed insomnia and turn away. And I

48:38

need help. I was thinking of telling 911 so

48:40

I could wear the hat there, but then my

48:43

parents would be really pissed. Okay,

48:45

so this is all one long conversation. Is that right?

48:48

He said, I'm going to ask my parents

48:50

to go to the doctor's tomorrow or Tuesday

48:53

again, but this time I'm going to tell

48:55

them about the voices. This

48:58

text message, or it seems to

49:00

message thread, did you ever, were

49:03

you even aware of this? No. Do

49:05

you remember any time where he

49:07

came and talked to you and said

49:10

anything about hearing voices? No. Do

49:13

you recall there ever being a time where he

49:15

asked you to go to a

49:17

doctor or to get help, and

49:19

you said no? No. Or

49:21

laughed at him? No. So

49:23

when you see these texts with his

49:26

friend, do

49:29

you have any idea, and if you don't, that's fine,

49:31

do you have any idea what he's doing with his friend?

49:34

I don't have any idea. She

49:36

was asked if she ever told Brian that after

49:38

going to the shooting range with her son in

49:40

the days prior to the shooting, the

49:43

gun was in her vehicle, and she said

49:45

yes. When did you tell

49:47

Brian that the gun was in your vehicle?

49:49

On the day I went to the shooting range. Did

49:53

you tell Brian you put the

49:55

gun in your car the day

49:57

the shooting happened? No.

50:00

So when he testified to that, was

50:02

that accurate? No, I think it was confused.

50:05

Okay. Did you specifically tell him

50:07

about the gun being put in your car

50:09

that other time? Yes. Aside

50:12

from that time that you drove to the

50:14

range, was the gun ever in your car?

50:16

No. She testified that she

50:18

saw that her son was getting a bad

50:20

grade in geometry. And so

50:22

the night before the shooting, they got into an argument

50:24

about it. She said they took

50:27

his phone away and told him he couldn't go

50:29

to the shooting range again until his grades were

50:31

brought back up. The

50:33

next day when she got the math worksheet

50:35

from the counselor with his drawings on it,

50:38

she said she thought he was doing that to send

50:40

a message to her. I

50:42

was actually kind of angry

50:44

because I thought he did that in

50:46

like the assignments of us telling

50:49

him about missing assignments. And here he is

50:51

throwing pictures on an empty

50:53

assignment page in geometry. Can

50:56

you tell me a specific, when

50:58

he had sent you a message

51:01

about the night before? Yeah. Is

51:04

it really so you said it personally? Yeah, I did. Okay.

51:07

So what did you give him? I

51:09

had asked Mr. Hopkins to,

51:12

if he had the original, and

51:14

then he sent it to my email, which then I opened

51:16

up and looked at it and

51:19

said, okay. What

51:21

did you think when you said that? I

51:23

was a little concerned. I

51:25

was a little concerned. He had asked

51:27

for a parent to come to the school to

51:30

meet with them. And at this

51:32

time I tried telling my husband to speak a

51:34

little because he was out in the area working.

51:37

And I couldn't get ahold of him. So

51:40

I decided to go to school. On

51:42

the way to the school, he finally called me

51:44

back and he met me at the school. So we went together. Okay.

51:47

And when he went to the school, what did you think

51:49

was happening? I thought

51:51

he had to get in trouble for what he drew on assignments.

51:54

I thought he was going to get

51:56

suspended. I was expecting a disciplinary meeting.

52:00

She said the meeting, however, was brief. So

52:03

when he walked in, he kind of showed us

52:06

where to sit, and then we

52:08

shook hands, introduced himself, and started the meeting.

52:11

Did you try to hug Ethan or

52:13

do anything like that? I didn't. Okay.

52:16

And when, how

52:18

did that meeting go? Um, it

52:23

was pretty, it was pretty natural. It was pretty

52:25

brief. He started,

52:27

he faced a still man, and what my son and

52:29

him were talking about for the last hour and a

52:31

half. He said

52:34

that my son told him that he was feeling

52:36

sad over the death of a

52:38

dog that we had, a mother-in-law, a

52:40

lots of his friends. We

52:42

talked, we talked a little bit about

52:44

that. We confirmed it. We agreed it

52:46

was hard on him. He

52:50

told us that he didn't

52:52

feel, my son was a risk,

52:55

and actually gave him the option, if he

52:57

wanted to stay at school or go home,

53:00

my son wanted to stay at school. So

53:03

we all discussed that. Did

53:05

you feel like you were taking the position of,

53:08

I am leaving the school wedding, you can be

53:10

here or not? No, absolutely not. Okay.

53:14

Were you surprised or were you not surprised?

53:16

Did you have any feelings about whether or

53:18

not he could stay at school? Um,

53:21

I didn't

53:23

really, I thought the advice

53:25

that they were giving us was a

53:28

good advice. We talked about him being

53:30

sad, and then he said being

53:32

around peers usually helped. We upgraded

53:34

that. My son gets very

53:36

stressed out when he does virtual school, so

53:39

we agreed that it might stress him out more to

53:41

do his school remotely the rest

53:43

of the day. But

53:46

there was never a time where I would

53:49

refuse to take him home easily if he

53:51

wanted to go take him with me. I had no issues

53:54

with that. Okay, so

53:56

ultimately, did you take

53:58

the paper, a paper for this? The

54:01

counseling papers, yeah. Okay. There

54:03

is a stack, a pen

54:06

sheet with multiple counselors listed on

54:08

it. Okay. And were you planning

54:10

to do anything with that shoe? Yeah,

54:13

actually we were going to start. I gave it to my

54:15

husband out in the parking lot and I told him, I

54:17

had phone calls at work the rest of the day. So

54:19

I told him to start making calls once

54:21

he got done doing his door dash. She

54:24

said after the meeting, she went back to work.

54:27

When she heard there was a shooter at the

54:29

school, she got in her car and drove there.

54:32

You sent a text to someone that said, you can talk

54:34

to us. What is this on the

54:36

move? After I left the

54:38

meeting, I knew that he was to do those

54:40

things. I just wanted to know that he can

54:43

talk to us about anything. Just

54:45

wanted to make sure I opened that door.

54:48

And I just wanted to know

54:50

that we're there somehow and we love him. Okay. And

54:54

he said he loved you. Do you recall that? I

54:56

do. Okay. Was

54:59

there anything unusual about that? Yeah,

55:01

he's at that age where it was hard to

55:03

get I love you back out of him. For

55:07

me to open my text and just see him

55:10

randomly saying I love you was abnormal for

55:12

him. Okay. Did you

55:15

think anything at that point? No,

55:19

not right at that point. I

55:22

think I said text back, I love you too. I don't remember.

55:25

I believe I did. Okay.

55:28

And later in

55:30

the thread, you say don't

55:33

do it. So when

55:35

you hear there's an open shooter at the school,

55:37

I want to know in your name, what

55:39

do you believe is happening? My

55:42

husband had called me when I was still at

55:44

work and he said there was

55:46

an act of shoot or act of high school and I can't get a hold

55:48

of Ethan. And that's when I opened my phone

55:50

and I saw the I love you. And

55:53

then I texted him. Are you okay? In

55:57

the process of it, I was hitting my phone.

56:00

and running out the door when my boss knew that I had

56:02

to go to my time school. It

56:04

was really fun when I was

56:07

trying to get to the

56:09

exit that my

56:12

husband called me. He asked me where I hid the

56:14

bullets and I told him and then he said that

56:16

the gun was missing. So

56:19

instantly, I'm like,

56:21

oh my gosh, he's got the gun. I didn't

56:23

actually think he was at the school shooting it.

56:26

I thought maybe he walked home and

56:28

got the gun and was in the field

56:31

by the school shooting. I didn't imagine

56:33

my son actually going to the school

56:35

shooting. And then when we got

56:37

more update, I was like, oh my gosh, he was still

56:39

shooting, he was going to kill himself because in my

56:41

mind, as the school shooters had done, they told

56:43

themselves after. So I

56:46

yelled and I talked to Ted, Ethan, don't do it,

56:48

because I thought he was going to kill himself. At

56:51

that point, did you think Ethan had

56:53

killed anyone? No, I didn't think

56:55

he shot anyone at that point. She

56:58

was asked if she has a habit of

57:00

deleting messages on her phone and she said

57:02

yes. Well, on

57:04

Facebook, I do a lot of Facebook Marketplace. I

57:07

get a lot of messages. Facebook Marketplace.

57:09

Rewind. Rewind. So

57:12

my main, the first main screen, my phone will

57:15

get clogged up with Marketplace messages.

57:17

So I'll just delete threads. My

57:19

main people come up that I talk to on

57:21

a regular basis. If that person you saw, I

57:23

delete those threads too. Same thing with text messages.

57:25

I delete threads until the main people I talk

57:27

to are up on the main screen. So I

57:29

don't have to scroll down to find them. Okay,

57:32

so is that a habit that you

57:35

started that day, that month? When

57:37

did you start doing this deleting text thing?

57:39

Pretty much on my phone. I've

57:42

always found that. Okay. Did

57:44

you go out of your way, in

57:46

this case, to delete certain

57:48

messages? Not intentionally. And

57:53

so when there's a message that they say

57:55

you deleted that indicates the gun was black, did

57:59

you do that? recall deleting

58:01

that message? No, I

58:03

completely forgot to type that message. Or,

58:05

I'm sending it. I'm sorry. No, I

58:07

don't remember. Okay, there's another message

58:10

that is unsent

58:12

talking about we did

58:14

everything right, that kind of thing. Do

58:16

you recall I'm sending that message? No.

58:20

She testified that she felt like somewhere

58:22

she had failed. Do you believe that

58:24

you knew or had reason to know

58:27

your son was a danger to anyone

58:29

else? No.

58:32

As a parent, you send your whole life trying

58:36

to protect your child from other

58:39

dangers. You never would think

58:42

you have to protect your child from harming

58:44

somebody else. That's what blew

58:47

my mind. That was the

58:50

hardest thing I had to

58:52

stomach, is that my child hurt

58:54

her and so did people.

59:00

Do you believe there were things you

59:03

were thinking at the time, I should do this,

59:05

but I'm not doing it. Do

59:07

you look back and think that? No,

59:09

I don't. I mean, of course I look

59:12

back after this all happened and

59:15

I've asked myself if I wrote down anything differently and

59:17

I wouldn't know. If

59:20

you could change what happened, would you? Oh, absolutely.

59:23

I wish she would have killed us instead.

59:30

On cross-examination, prosecutor Mark

59:32

Keast asked Jennifer Crumbly

59:34

if her horses was a time-consuming

59:36

and expensive hobby and she

59:39

agreed. Half of her salary

59:41

went to her horses. He

59:44

also inquired more about the affairs she

59:46

had had with Brian. What's

59:48

adult fun finder? Where you

59:50

can go on and meet people who meet

59:53

certain tastes that you were looking for. And you

59:55

have the adult

59:57

fun finder on your side. I

1:00:00

had the app. Okay, it was found on your phone.

1:00:02

Okay, well, it just was on my phone. Okay, and

1:00:04

there were messages from you, two other individuals. Okay. Roger,

1:00:10

I was just going outside of the

1:00:12

social media fair with Brian, but... I

1:00:15

don't think the court's really opening the

1:00:17

door was confined to just for extra

1:00:19

marital fair with Brian Loesch. Well,

1:00:22

I guess... With

1:00:26

regard to some law, I determined

1:00:28

that if I

1:00:31

had to open the door, I would not be able

1:00:33

to determine that if I had to open the door,

1:00:35

I'd see all of it. She

1:00:38

depicted herself as having one extra marital fair

1:00:40

for about a six-month period of time, where

1:00:43

she met with him one time a week. That was her

1:00:45

testimony yesterday. We have evidence to the

1:00:47

contrary, and I think it's important. Okay,

1:00:53

exciting. Hi. All

1:00:56

right, can I have a seat? All right, well, I'll

1:00:58

go ahead. I

1:01:01

won't go too far. Okay, yeah. I

1:01:03

really... The student, I think, wrote a

1:01:05

long time. I respect

1:01:07

the time, Josh. I'll be brief. My little boss.

1:01:10

So, Mrs. Crumbly... I'm

1:01:13

sorry, this is not a laughing matter. Mrs.

1:01:15

Crumbly, an adult friend from

1:01:17

here, we've seen messages from you

1:01:19

in at least of August of 2021, August of 4th,

1:01:21

2021. Okay.

1:01:24

Okay, and you don't dispute August 10th of

1:01:26

2021? No. August

1:01:29

11th of 2021? No. And

1:01:32

more importantly, November 21st, 2021? No.

1:01:35

Okay, and more important than that, November

1:01:38

28th, 2021? No.

1:01:40

Okay, you don't dispute that, and it's under your

1:01:42

phone? No, I don't dispute it. Okay. And you

1:01:44

don't dispute that. It wasn't just you and Mr.

1:01:46

Milaj, meaning after work hours. It

1:01:49

was with you and Mr. Milaj arranging with other

1:01:51

individuals to meet after work as well. No,

1:01:54

I only met with Brian during work hours.

1:01:56

The times that we were at the hotel,

1:01:58

I was on business. We did arrangements. for other people

1:02:00

to meet us there. He then

1:02:02

asked her about the gun. Now,

1:02:04

you don't deny that your

1:02:07

son wrote in his journal that

1:02:09

he asked his parents

1:02:11

for help. You don't deny that evidence that was

1:02:13

in it. No, I don't. Okay. And you don't

1:02:15

deny that he wrote in his

1:02:17

journal that he now had access to the

1:02:19

six-hour nine millimeter hand gun. I've

1:02:21

not denied it. And you don't deny that

1:02:23

the six-hour nine millimeter handgun was in fact

1:02:25

the murder weapon. I don't deny that. And

1:02:27

you also don't deny that that gun was

1:02:29

gifted by you and your husband to your

1:02:31

son on November the 20th. Describe

1:02:34

gifted. How about when you

1:02:36

posted on Instagram his new Christmas

1:02:38

gift? Correct. My point yesterday that it was for

1:02:40

him to use at the shooting range. We didn't

1:02:43

just hand him a gun as a

1:02:45

here you go son. It was something he could

1:02:47

use and we went to the range as a

1:02:49

family together. You

1:02:52

don't deny that in April of 2021

1:02:54

you described your son as being depressed.

1:02:57

I didn't describe as being depressed. I noticed

1:02:59

that he was acting depressed. You used the

1:03:01

word depressed. Yes, he was acting sad that acting

1:03:03

depressed. Okay. And you know what depressed means? It

1:03:06

means a lot of different things. Well to you

1:03:08

and then depressed and you wrote that. You

1:03:11

don't deny in April of 2021

1:03:14

evidence shows that your son told

1:03:16

his only friend that he had

1:03:18

asked you for help. No,

1:03:21

I don't deny that. Okay. And you

1:03:23

also don't deny that he told his

1:03:25

only friend that you laughed at.

1:03:27

I did not deny that. She

1:03:29

was asked about how the gun her

1:03:31

son had drawn on the math worksheet

1:03:33

was identical to the one they had

1:03:35

purchased for him. I mean, honestly, just like

1:03:38

it looks like it's going to be, I didn't

1:03:40

even know this. Well, you took a picture of

1:03:42

the gun. You posted on Instagram. You know what

1:03:44

it looks like. I do, but I didn't analyze

1:03:46

it. You saw sergeants or uh, special agent Brandon's

1:03:48

testimony. He described how it's identical and

1:03:50

you told us yesterday how your son was a

1:03:52

good drawer. He's very good drawer. Okay. What about

1:03:54

the thoughts won't stop. Help me. Does that ring

1:03:56

out to you? Yes, that was what was concerning

1:03:59

to me. Blood everywhere

1:04:01

in there is a bullet. And actually you were the

1:04:03

one who bought the bullets in November the 27th. Correct.

1:04:05

And later came a learn of those bullets for using

1:04:07

the shooting. I did. So

1:04:10

you said yesterday it was a little

1:04:12

concerning. Yeah, you

1:04:15

told your husband emergency in all

1:04:17

caps. Correct. That's why I left to go

1:04:19

to the school and I texted him. And

1:04:21

he wrote back, my God, WTF. Correct. And

1:04:23

then you told him he was distraught about

1:04:25

last time. Correct. Disfraud

1:04:27

is an intentional word you chose. Correct.

1:04:29

It's not sad. It's not a little

1:04:32

anxious about school or its future. It's

1:04:34

not talking about a video game. Disfraud

1:04:37

has a meaning. Correct. And

1:04:39

you chose that word to send to him. Correct. He

1:04:43

pointed out that her phone calls were recorded

1:04:45

while she was at the jail and that

1:04:47

her priority on her first

1:04:49

phone call was her animals and the

1:04:51

cash recovered from the art studio. Do

1:04:54

you deny that it wasn't until 10

1:04:56

days later and 14 calls later as

1:04:58

you even mentioned your son? I

1:05:01

was... Do you deny him? I

1:05:04

don't, but I was under the impression that I

1:05:08

couldn't mention him because I could get flagged

1:05:10

at the jail. Well,

1:05:15

you mentioned him in a later conversation. I did. Okay.

1:05:19

And in fact, in one, a year later, March 25th of

1:05:21

2023, you said he just needed to man up Do

1:05:24

you recall that? I do not. Okay. Do

1:05:27

you deny that you said it? It sounds like something I would say. In

1:05:32

December of 2028, New Kingston

1:05:36

was about a GoFundMe. Do you remember that? No,

1:05:38

I do not. He

1:05:41

played a call for the jury between her and

1:05:43

her dad. She asked him

1:05:45

instead of the GoFundMe if he could pay

1:05:47

for the boarding of her horses. In

1:05:51

another call a few weeks after her

1:05:53

arrest, she asked her dad to Google

1:05:55

how many calories are in a bologna

1:05:57

sandwich with white bread. Also, she said that she was

1:05:59

not a gofundme. peanut butter and jelly on

1:06:01

white bread. Prosecutor

1:06:04

Keast brought up her direct testimony and

1:06:06

how she said that she had taken

1:06:08

the shooter's phone away the night before

1:06:10

the shooting after arguing with him about

1:06:12

his grades. During this fight, did

1:06:14

you lock your son out of the house? We did

1:06:16

not. You don't deny that he was out there at

1:06:18

the house? He did walk out of the house. He

1:06:20

was upset. Okay. You told us that you took his

1:06:22

phone. We did. That's not true, is it? That

1:06:26

is true. I

1:06:28

remember the 2019, 2021, your

1:06:32

son filmed a 19-minute video while

1:06:34

he was outside describing what

1:06:36

he was going to do the next day. What

1:06:39

time was that taken? 7 o'clock. I

1:06:42

don't know if he got it back. I know he took

1:06:44

the shooting range away and we took his son away, so

1:06:46

I don't know if he got it back. He

1:06:49

asked her if there was anything stopping her

1:06:51

from taking her son home the morning of

1:06:53

November 30th, and she said no.

1:06:56

Actually, I want to go back to what you just said. You

1:06:59

took his daughter. We took the shooting

1:07:01

range away. You said he took his daughter. No,

1:07:03

I said we took the shooting range away. Your

1:07:12

son could have been with you those

1:07:15

three, four, five things a

1:07:17

week when you were at the bar. I think I love

1:07:20

that. Your son could have been with you all

1:07:22

those times when you were with Mr. Malash or

1:07:24

somebody else. In

1:07:28

the week nights, you come in with you

1:07:30

after school, after work? I

1:07:32

wasn't with Mr. Malash at those times. The other

1:07:34

individuals then? I wasn't with them either at those

1:07:36

times. According to the school's credit writer. I made

1:07:39

a message. He put those times, but I was

1:07:41

not with anybody at those times. He

1:07:43

could have been with you on the Halloween party. He did

1:07:45

not want to go with a bunch of little kids. And

1:07:50

November 30th, 2021, at 12.51 p.m., you

1:07:55

could have been with him. I

1:07:58

could have been. And you didn't. Well,

1:08:02

everybody. And her closing arguments, prosecutor

1:08:09

Karen McDonald acknowledged that the job

1:08:12

of the jurors wasn't easy. But

1:08:15

she pointed to the actions of Jennifer

1:08:17

Crumbly, even just on the morning of

1:08:19

the shooting. Going to

1:08:21

the meeting, being concerned privately to

1:08:23

her husband, but then not taking

1:08:25

their son home, saying she

1:08:27

had to get back to work. She

1:08:30

told the jury that Jennifer wanted them

1:08:32

to believe that she's somebody that she's not.

1:08:35

You know she's not, she

1:08:37

is not somebody that used

1:08:40

ordinary care to

1:08:42

prevent what was foreseeable, reasonably

1:08:45

foreseeable, that could have happened,

1:08:48

injury or death, and it

1:08:50

did. It did. So

1:08:56

a word on that paper helped

1:08:58

me. She

1:09:01

walked out of that school with an 11 minute, didn't

1:09:03

so much even address

1:09:05

her concerns. She

1:09:10

did not give them the help they wanted. And

1:09:12

you can argue about this month before and

1:09:14

the weeks before, but

1:09:16

if you just even looked at what happened

1:09:18

that day, she walked out

1:09:21

of that school and

1:09:23

she knew, she

1:09:25

knew something bad might happen.

1:09:28

What did she do when she gets back

1:09:30

to work? She always had been taken to

1:09:32

sin and knew okay and then he

1:09:34

confessed to it. Even

1:09:37

the actions of somebody who was worried, she

1:09:39

was worried and she was concerned and

1:09:41

she was panicked until after. And

1:09:44

then it's a different story.

1:09:46

Why? Because she knew she had

1:09:48

done something wrong. She

1:09:51

walked her way from

1:09:54

just the smallest, smallest

1:09:56

of things, could have saved,

1:09:58

could have saved. health, planning,

1:10:02

and hate, and medicine, and justice.

1:10:05

Just a small assessment. And

1:10:08

not only did she not do it, she

1:10:11

suddenly remembered it. This

1:10:15

is Corbin Jenner, who's about to

1:10:18

see a cookie of four pounds

1:10:20

of involuntary man-stander. It's

1:10:24

a rare case to take the

1:10:26

movie Regis Dance, to

1:10:28

take the unthinkable. And

1:10:31

she is doing unthinkable. And because of

1:10:33

that, four kids are gone. So

1:10:37

I'm asking you to go back when you hear

1:10:39

the law, review the evidence, and

1:10:42

find a guilty because we have proven the

1:10:45

truth. Jennifer's attorney, Shannon

1:10:48

Smith, told the jury in

1:10:50

her closing arguments that what

1:10:52

happened was unforeseeable and that

1:10:54

Jennifer never could have expected this.

1:10:58

It's obvious real life

1:11:00

is messy and complicated.

1:11:04

And during this trial, I

1:11:07

will openly admit that

1:11:10

I'm a lawyer who messes up. I

1:11:13

get thrown off when I'm surprised by

1:11:15

something. I

1:11:17

feel like I get overwhelmed when

1:11:20

information is coming at me quickly.

1:11:23

I say I'm sorry a lot. Evidently,

1:11:25

there's a TikTok channel of me saying

1:11:27

I'm sorry to this whole trial. And

1:11:32

all I'm saying is that I'm human. I

1:11:39

am a human being. And so

1:11:41

is Mrs. Crumbly. And

1:11:43

that's what this case is about. She's

1:11:46

not a perfect person or a perfect

1:11:49

parent. I'm certainly not

1:11:51

a perfect person or a perfect

1:11:53

parent. And I'm certainly beyond

1:11:55

a reasonable doubt that

1:11:57

this technology, which is why you... That

1:12:01

left her. She told the

1:12:03

jury that they didn't have to like Jennifer

1:12:05

Crumbly. The said it's important to set aside

1:12:08

their opinions of her and look at the

1:12:10

evidence. Snow when I

1:12:12

sit down. this case. For

1:12:14

the whole lot of I realized. I

1:12:17

am suddenly an accent

1:12:20

be too soon and

1:12:22

saw very easily now

1:12:24

in my house we

1:12:26

don't have that. I.

1:12:29

Don't have guns. didn't do have

1:12:31

children in actually a baby. My

1:12:34

for said that next line for

1:12:36

years and that's what else is.

1:12:38

Often as I say, I'm a

1:12:41

fundamentally black. And.

1:12:45

I can't seem to have no issue.

1:12:48

That has the under the greater good to

1:12:50

see go to school. We have no discipline

1:12:53

problems. We have are human pure and

1:12:55

they're. Just like every family does.

1:12:58

I have a son that wants to hang

1:13:00

out with me very rarely that know believe.

1:13:03

That. Any of my school children. Would

1:13:05

other from anyone else. Am

1:13:07

I don't tell them? God. I

1:13:10

have a large family

1:13:12

toner. with big guys

1:13:14

that I used when I have an

1:13:16

i was looking. At

1:13:20

the end of the day, madison to

1:13:22

just as easily brother night without me.

1:13:25

Knowing him. And. without having

1:13:27

it on Monday that. And

1:13:29

walk out the door of Mothballs.

1:13:31

Google play with your kids. Learn.

1:13:35

From further than in the

1:13:37

middle of nowhere. And

1:13:40

my son to tell somebody with

1:13:42

my much of last night. The

1:13:45

I would never expected to happen.

1:13:48

In. His you saw the text

1:13:51

messages sent my husband and I

1:13:53

had since our daily basis throughout.

1:13:55

This helps us anything years before.

1:13:58

It would be so. easy for

1:14:01

me to be in her seat. She

1:14:04

said she doesn't monitor her son's assignments

1:14:06

or look at his phone. And

1:14:09

if he gets older, I do know he's interested

1:14:11

in girls. If he starts

1:14:13

receiving new pictures of a girl on

1:14:15

the cell phone that I own but

1:14:17

let him use and gave him for

1:14:20

his birthday when he turned 11, should

1:14:23

I be held accountable for receiving child

1:14:25

pornography if a girl expects

1:14:27

some inappropriate pictures?

1:14:31

If my son decides he's

1:14:33

going to send some pictures back and takes

1:14:36

a new picture of his bits

1:14:38

and pieces. That's a 20 year felony. And

1:14:40

my son is responsible because

1:14:42

he sent a picture of his

1:14:45

penis over some girl. So

1:14:48

not only taking the picture of a

1:14:50

20 year felony, but

1:14:52

then we've got a 7 year felony for sending

1:14:54

it over. Especially when

1:14:56

it's not foreseeable. Because there's

1:14:58

no one in the world, including Mrs. Crumbly,

1:15:00

who has let a school shooting happen

1:15:08

and let what happened on November

1:15:11

30th take close. She

1:15:21

asked the jury to find Jennifer

1:15:24

Crumbly not guilty. Not

1:15:26

just for Jennifer Crumbly, but

1:15:28

for every mother who's out there doing the best

1:15:30

they can who could easily be in her shoes.

1:15:33

For every parent doing the best they can

1:15:36

who could easily be in their shoes. For

1:15:40

every parent that has snippets of text

1:15:42

messages that could be read and make

1:15:44

them look like horrible monsters. For

1:15:48

every parent that has fights with their

1:15:50

kid on text message that also makes

1:15:52

them look like terrible parents. For

1:15:55

every parent that's ever had a cabbie and

1:15:58

has met since the 21st century. with

1:16:00

their child. That

1:16:02

should not be a held against parents.

1:16:06

For any parent that's ever had an affair

1:16:08

or spent time communicating on an affair, that

1:16:11

tells nothing about how much you care about

1:16:13

your child or your expectation

1:16:15

of whether or not they

1:16:17

would commit a full shooting. Most

1:16:20

people who have affairs would still not

1:16:22

expect their child would do this. She

1:16:25

said she wished more than anything that this

1:16:28

case could bring justice to the victims and

1:16:30

their families, but she said

1:16:32

it can't be a band-aid for what happened. This

1:16:35

is not justice. This is

1:16:37

not how justice works, she said. The

1:16:41

jury went back and deliberated. They

1:16:43

were armed with all the evidence

1:16:45

and testimony presented in court, as

1:16:47

well as additional text messages between

1:16:49

Jennifer and James that I didn't

1:16:51

cover in this episode. They

1:16:54

deliberated for about 11 hours

1:16:56

before coming back and finding

1:16:58

Jennifer Crumbly guilty of four

1:17:00

counts of involuntary manslaughter. Months

1:17:04

later, Jennifer's husband James went

1:17:06

on trial. He, too,

1:17:08

was convicted by a separate jury

1:17:10

of four counts of involuntary

1:17:13

manslaughter. Both

1:17:15

were sentenced to 10 to 15 years in prison. Both

1:17:20

are appealing, and so

1:17:22

is the shooter. That's

1:17:25

all for this episode. As always,

1:17:27

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this case.

1:17:30

Do you agree with the verdict? Let

1:17:32

us know by joining the conversation on Instagram

1:17:35

at CourtJunkie, or you can

1:17:37

always email me at podcast

1:17:39

at courtjunkie.com. To

1:17:41

hear these episodes without the ads and hear

1:17:43

additional Court Junkie bonus episodes, check

1:17:46

out my Patreon options at

1:17:48

courtjunkie.com. Thanks

1:17:50

again for listening. Until next time. you