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Hi, my name is Mark Chavez and I'm

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1:43

Let's Make a Horror Welcome to Crawl Space. I'm Tim here

1:45

today with Lance. Lance, how are you today?

1:48

Doing great today, Tim, because it is

1:50

a very special day. It's a very special episode

1:52

coming up, but it's special in other ways

1:54

because it's Halloween. So I just want to

1:56

say Happy Halloween to you, sir. How

1:59

are you? Yes.

1:59

I'm doing well, yes. Happy Halloween

2:02

indeed. And today

2:05

on Crawl Space we're going to be talking about the serial

2:07

killer known as the alphabet

2:09

killer. Otherwise known as

2:12

Joseph Nassau, that's his name.

2:14

But we're going to get into it. Before we

2:17

do, we just want to send a thanks to our fantastic

2:19

researcher, Marianne Stonewight,

2:22

for this research. But before we get

2:24

to that great piece of research that Marianne put together,

2:26

we're going to break real quick for

2:28

commercial and we'll be right back with Joseph

2:31

Nassau, the alphabet killer.

2:40

Say hi. Hello.

2:43

This video is a message from a little boy

2:45

named someone. He disappeared five

2:47

years ago in Syria during the war to

2:49

defeat ISIS.

2:51

He still hasn't been found.

2:53

My name is Poonam Tineja. I'm

2:55

traveling to Syria to find out what happened

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to Salman and the thousands of children

3:00

like him, lost in one of the most dangerous

3:03

places on Earth. From BBC

3:05

Sounds and the CBC podcasts, Bloodlines,

3:08

listen wherever you get your podcasts.

3:11

I'm Kathleen Goldhar and I'm the host

3:13

of a new podcast, Crime Story. Every

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week we bring you a different crime, told

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You got one witness who can't be found.

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as a city, as a country. Find

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us wherever you get your podcasts. Hi

3:41

folks. Let me see if I can sum

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up Midnight Burger in about 25 seconds. Really,

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my superhero irony. Pardon me,

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Gloria. Might my husband and I have

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a word?

3:51

The radio is talking

3:53

to me. So this is how it ends. Eaten by wolves in

3:55

space. There's a pocket dimension

3:58

in the deep breeze. This is the story. stupidest

4:00

dystopia we've ever been to. What the hell

4:03

is that?

4:03

Because you're having a cigarette

4:05

in 415 million BC. Where

4:09

are we? Space.

4:10

Can you narrow that down? The bad

4:12

part? Ava. Yeah, that didn't work at all.

4:15

At the nexus of all things, there is a diner.

4:18

Look for Midnight Burger on your favorite podcasting app,

4:20

or just go to weopenatsix.com.

4:32

Joseph Nasso was born January 7,

4:34

1934, and he lived in New York, California,

4:38

and Nevada.

4:42

He was ultimately apprehended in 2011 in Reno,

4:44

Nevada, and convicted of four counts of murder. And

4:50

he is serving life in prison in San

4:52

Quentin as we speak. Eighty-nine

4:55

years old and on death row in

4:57

San Quentin, Joseph Nasso

4:59

was born in Rochester, New York in 1934, served in the

5:01

Air Force in the 1950s. This

5:04

is where he met his wife, Judith, and they had

5:06

a son named Charles. Charles

5:08

was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia,

5:11

and Nasso was said to have taken care of him in

5:13

the later years. After 18 years

5:16

of marriage, Joseph and Judith divorced.

5:19

They lived in San Francisco and Nevada in

5:21

the following years, but he apparently

5:24

still visited her in the East Bay area

5:26

where she lived on many occasions. During

5:29

this time, Nasso worked as a freelance

5:31

photographer and attended community college

5:34

in Oakland, and this was in the mid-1970s. And

5:37

then we'll jump forward to 1994. Nasso

5:40

was arrested for petty theft in Sutter

5:42

County near Yuba City. And

5:45

in 95, Nasso was arrested

5:47

for attempting to steal 30 pairs of

5:50

women's underwear from a department

5:52

store. Then in 2003,

5:54

he was arrested in Sacramento for shoplifting

5:57

from a local food store. And

5:59

he was later paroled, but when he didn't

6:01

show up for a scheduled visit with his parole

6:04

officer on April 13th 2010,

6:07

his PO Wes Jackson decided to pay

6:09

Nassau a visit at his home. As

6:12

we learn more about Nassau,

6:14

that number of underwear,

6:17

the 30 that he stole, starts to

6:19

come into play a little bit based on the victim

6:23

list and his motivations

6:27

with them. There's some sources

6:29

say that under Nassau's parole

6:32

terms, his house could be searched

6:34

at any time without a warrant. However,

6:36

other sources say that after entering

6:38

Nassau's house, Jackson saw

6:41

an advertisement for a gun, several

6:44

cartridges around the house. Because

6:46

this was a parole violation, a search

6:49

warrant was obtained. Either way, the

6:51

search turned into much more than Nassau's

6:53

parole officer ever imagined. And

6:55

officers ultimately found a total of

6:58

four guns, ammunition, handcuffs,

7:00

and police officer uniforms. And

7:02

they also found many nude and

7:04

semi nude photos and

7:07

videos of young women, many

7:09

of whom appeared unconscious or even

7:11

dead. Nassau tried to explain

7:14

these away by saying they were all part of his

7:16

job as a freelance photographer

7:19

and that none of it was actually real. But

7:22

officers discovered a room in his house

7:24

that could only be accessed from the outside.

7:27

And there was a small area cut out of the door

7:30

where things could be passed through without

7:32

opening the door, which is kind of like

7:34

a jail cell. And the window on

7:36

the door was also the only

7:39

one on the house that was equipped with

7:41

metal bars. Couldn't imagine

7:43

being the officers discovering all this and realizing

7:46

as you're discovering it how it's all

7:48

coming together, how this is so

7:50

much more than what you thought it was going to be going into

7:52

it. The dresser drawers in

7:54

a bedroom were packed with women's clothing,

7:57

which seemed odd since no one else appeared to

7:59

be living there at the time, there were a pair

8:02

of mannequin legs turned upside

8:04

down wearing pantyhose. Nassau

8:07

claimed he wore pantyhose because of a skin

8:09

condition on his leg, but Jackson

8:12

noted that Nassau wasn't wearing pantyhose

8:14

at the time, he was just wearing socks. And

8:17

also found during the search was a diary

8:20

in Nassau's bedroom that contained information

8:22

about several different women. This diary

8:24

came to be known later on in court

8:27

as the quote dump journal end

8:29

quote and the quote rape diary

8:31

end quote. One of the entries read

8:34

quote girl in north buffalo woods,

8:37

she was real pretty, front seat of

8:39

my car, had to knock her out first 1958

8:41

end quote. And another that

8:44

read quote Selena Kansas, girl

8:47

I followed and met at Fred Astaire dance

8:49

studio, she was gorgeous, great

8:52

legs in nylons, heels, had

8:54

to rape her in my car on a cold wintery

8:57

night, snowstorm end quote.

8:59

Sort of says something about his ego that he felt

9:01

the need to document these in a diary,

9:05

which is really interesting to me. Yeah,

9:08

or he's trying to remember these

9:10

details for some reason.

9:13

Right.

9:14

So this information about what was found

9:16

during the search of Nassau's house, obviously

9:18

is extremely alarming, but possibly

9:22

the biggest piece of evidence found is

9:24

what officers called a shortlist.

9:27

This was a list numbered from one

9:29

to 10, but did not provide specific

9:31

names. Instead on this paper named

9:34

by Nassau, the list of 10, this

9:37

quote list of 10, there were the words

9:39

quote lady or quote girl

9:42

followed by a location, which was

9:44

where he supposedly met or

9:46

first saw each of those women.

9:49

Once investigators started looking into these places,

9:52

they found that six women had been

9:54

killed in six of the listed

9:57

areas. The other four locations

9:59

are still undeterred.

10:00

That is wild. And police

10:03

also discovered a stash of notebooks which

10:05

has apparently been written years after

10:07

the so-called dump journal or rape diary.

10:10

In these notebooks, Nassau recounts graphic

10:13

descriptions of bondage, torture,

10:15

and murder. Some of these appeared

10:17

to be crimes he had already

10:19

committed while others were written

10:21

more like an instructional manual for crimes

10:24

he intended to commit in the future.

10:26

I mean it almost feels like he wanted

10:29

this information to be out there if

10:31

he got caught because it seems like you're

10:33

putting together an instructional manual.

10:35

It's really striking to me as an incredibly

10:38

organized serial killer. Nassau

10:41

was ultimately arrested for probation

10:43

violations and spent the next

10:45

year in a Nevada prison. Then

10:47

a year later Nassau was awaiting

10:50

trial on charges of murdering four

10:52

women. The four women were all prostitutes

10:54

who were strangled to death. The

10:57

thing about these murders is that they seem to follow

10:59

the plot of the Agatha Christie

11:01

novel The ABC Murders where

11:03

the first letter of each victim's first

11:06

and last name are the same. These

11:09

murders became to be known as the alphabet

11:11

murders or the double initial killings.

11:14

And on January 10th 1977 the body of 18 year old Roxene

11:19

Rogache was found near Fairfax,

11:21

California and wearing a pair

11:24

of panty hose. She also had her

11:26

hands and feet bound with

11:28

a pair of pantyhose and another

11:30

pair was stuffed into her mouth. And

11:33

police determined she had only been dead

11:35

for a day and because police suspected

11:38

she was a prostitute they believed she had

11:40

been killed by local pimp. However

11:42

there was never enough evidence to move forward with

11:45

a case against him. But her

11:47

family denies she was ever involved

11:49

in sex work at all. Moving

11:51

on to August 13th 1978 the body of

11:54

a nude female was found by a highway

11:56

patrol officer on Carquinas Scenic

11:59

Highway. body was later identified to

12:01

be that of 22 year old Carmen

12:03

Colon. This case soon went

12:06

cold because of the lack of evidence. And 15

12:08

years later 38 year old waitress

12:12

Pamela Parsons was found

12:14

dead in Yuba County. She had ligature

12:16

marks on her wrists and neck and her hyoid

12:19

bone had been broken which is typical

12:22

in some cases of strangulation

12:25

as this is a small horseshoe shaped

12:27

bone in the middle of the neck.

12:29

And in the following year 1994 31 year old Tracy

12:31

Tafoya was also found dead

12:35

in Yuba County. She had been drugged,

12:38

raped and dumped in a cemetery.

12:40

It's believed her body had been dumped

12:42

there around a week prior to her being

12:44

found. And because of all the evidence

12:46

found during the search of his house authorities

12:49

from multiple states believe that Nassau

12:51

is actually responsible for several other murders

12:54

across the United States. And while no

12:56

one has stated a figure or

12:58

even attempted to estimate the potential

13:00

number of victims police do believe that

13:03

Nassau committed several rapes and murders across

13:05

the country from California to New York

13:07

to Florida. In addition to

13:09

the diary notebooks and photos found

13:12

in his house authorities also discovered a

13:14

number of driver's licenses, passports

13:16

and work identification cards belonging to

13:18

women. They even found a birth certificate

13:21

of a woman born in 1914. Authorities believe it

13:25

is very likely that Nassau was operating undetected

13:27

for many years and that there were likely

13:30

other victims out there that haven't been

13:32

discovered yet. I think that's pretty clear

13:35

just with the way he describes the

13:38

sexual assault that he performs on

13:40

these women. It's so nonchalant

13:43

and passive. It's

13:45

almost as if he's talking about taking

13:47

someone out on a date. Then it wouldn't

13:50

be a surprise to me at all if there were at

13:52

least a couple dozen more

13:54

victims. And knowing that it's likely

13:57

Nassau was committing these heinous crimes

13:59

for over half a second. police now

14:01

say that he could probably have been

14:03

stopped earlier. Over the years several

14:05

women went to police to report themselves

14:08

or their daughters being sexually assaulted

14:10

by Nassau and he was charged with rape

14:12

at least twice but each time it was regarded

14:15

with indifference at best

14:17

by the authorities and at

14:19

least once police reportedly told

14:21

Nassau to leave town to avoid

14:24

arrest. Sounds like a really responsible way

14:26

to address an issue of rape

14:29

allegation. Just get out

14:31

of town. If you don't

14:34

want to be arrested get out of town. And in 2012

14:36

as he awaited trial

14:38

for the four murders authorities continue

14:40

to investigate him and the

14:42

following are just some of the cases

14:45

that could possibly be connected

14:47

back to Nassau or at least had been looked

14:49

at. The first one we're going to talk about is South

14:51

Lake Tahoe's cold case files which

14:54

include the 1976 murder of 17

14:57

year old Kathleen Keyhane. Kathleen's

15:00

body was found under the Truckee

15:02

River Bridge her skull was crushed by something

15:05

sharp. No suspects or motive

15:08

have yet been identified in her

15:10

case. And Marina Mitchell disappeared

15:13

from the American River Canyon in 1976. Searchers

15:15

combed the area for weeks. Her decomposed

15:19

body washed ashore not far

15:22

from where she was last seen. Foul

15:24

play was ruled out because the

15:26

leads were short and there was no intent

15:28

but investigators admitted they

15:31

may never know how Mitchell actually died.

15:34

And Tim this brings us to the point where

15:36

we should probably talk about Sheila Shepherd's case.

15:39

Absolutely and of course we've covered

15:41

Sheila Shepherd's unsolved murder pretty

15:43

extensively here on the crawlspace

15:45

and missing airwaves we even spun it off

15:48

into its own podcast feed so if you want

15:50

to hear more about Sheila Shepherd's

15:52

unsolved murder just search the

15:54

murder of Sheila Shepherd in

15:56

your pod catcher. Sheila Shepherd

15:58

was murdered in Saratoga

16:00

Springs in her apartment November

16:03

23rd, 1980.

16:05

She

16:06

was suffocated with

16:08

her blouse and her cause

16:11

of death was ruled as asphyxiation.

16:14

So it was kind of just her

16:16

blouse was stuffed into her mouth. So that kind

16:18

of reminds me of some of these other cases in

16:21

Nassau's story. And it's

16:24

a little different from Nassau's

16:26

MO in that Sheila wasn't

16:30

the victim of an aggressive

16:32

sexual assault. She was found without any clothes

16:34

on, on her bed, tied her

16:37

hands, her riffs, and her ankles,

16:39

tied in a spread eagle fashion. She

16:42

had the knife in her stomach that was inflicted

16:44

post-mortem, but there was no

16:46

physical sexual assault. I mean, the attack

16:49

itself is sexual in nature, but

16:51

this one stands out from Nassau

16:54

in that there was no

16:56

actual sexual aggression going

16:58

on, which would be an outlier

17:00

with Nassau because that was his main objective,

17:03

was to have that sexual act

17:06

occur. And just for a little context here,

17:08

Rochester is 220 miles away from Saratoga Springs, and

17:13

that's about a three and a half hour drive.

17:16

And Nassau would have been about 46 at

17:19

the time of Sheila Shepard's murder.

17:21

And we'll be right back after a quick word

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all of the evidence against the suspect. And

20:25

as the investigation of NASA continues, his former wife Judith visited

20:27

him at the

20:33

Washoe

20:56

County Jail. The police monitored

20:58

the conversation as NASA told

21:00

her to enlist the help of their eldest son.

21:03

He said, quote, once Charlie gets into

21:05

my house, tell him to go straight to my bedroom.

21:08

In the top drawer of the dresser under

21:11

my socks is a blue two by

21:13

four inch pouch envelope containing

21:15

my safe deposit keys. I've

21:18

got things in there that are private. NASA

21:20

said, according to the court papers.

21:23

And detectives found a black zippered

21:25

bag with an envelope in a safety deposit

21:28

box at a Reno bank. In

21:30

it, there were 66 photographs

21:32

of women naked or in various

21:34

states of undress alongside

21:36

various identification documents

21:39

belonging to several different women. And

21:41

there was a passport and driver's license

21:43

in the name of Sarah Dillon, a

21:45

woman who used to be called Renee

21:47

Shapiro. Shapiro had changed

21:50

her name to that of Bob Dylan's first wife

21:52

as an homage to the singer and

21:54

was on her way to a Bob Dylan concert 20

21:57

years earlier when she actually went

21:59

missing. Shapiro had followed

22:01

Dylan to performances across the US

22:03

and abroad for years. And so that

22:05

safety deposit box also held

22:07

a piece of paper on which Nassau

22:10

wrote quote, May 4th 1992, Monday,

22:12

PM, end quote, and that is the time

22:14

of the Dylan

22:17

concert that Shapiro never made

22:19

it to. It makes you wonder how

22:22

long he had been stalking this individual and

22:25

when we had mentioned that he'd stolen

22:27

the 30 pairs of underwear from

22:29

the department store, it

22:32

seems to me like it's so

22:34

premeditated that he's going

22:36

to take pictures of women, dress

22:39

them how he wants to dress them, including

22:41

the underwear that either he's purchased or stolen,

22:44

pantyhose that he's purchased or stolen, and

22:47

that's just a level of psychosis

22:49

that I would love to talk to somebody

22:51

about because this is again

22:53

so premeditated and planned if

22:56

that was the case. 30 pairs

22:58

of underwear, what are you doing with those?

23:01

You're abducting

23:03

these women, you're sexually assaulting

23:05

them, you're making

23:07

them pose or they're unconscious, and

23:10

you're dressing them in what you've stolen or bought,

23:13

like dolls, like mannequins.

23:15

And as Nassau was arrested for the alphabet

23:18

murders that took place in San Francisco, people

23:20

on the other side of the country near

23:22

Rochester, New York took notice

23:25

as they never quite got over the murders of three

23:27

young schoolgirls back in the early

23:29

1970s between 71 and 73 and the murders had also been dubbed the

23:35

alphabet killings because again each

23:37

of the victims first and last names

23:40

shared the same initial. And

23:42

disturbingly one of the ten-year-old

23:44

victims in the Rochester area carried

23:47

the same name as a woman allegedly

23:49

murdered by Nassau in California

23:51

years later, Carmen Colon, so

23:54

same name. That is wild.

23:56

Yeah. I'm not sure if that's connected but

23:59

that is a wild. coincidence. Yeah

24:01

it really is and there had been multiple suspects

24:03

over the years with one failed investigation after

24:06

another. Now investigators in New York

24:08

say that Nassau is a person

24:10

of interest, although they do point

24:13

out that while a connection may exist

24:15

there are also reasons for caution

24:18

and the alphabet murders that occurred

24:21

in Rochester in the early 1970s remain

24:25

unsolved. Through DNA evidence

24:27

Nassau was actually ruled out of the

24:29

murder of Wanda Walkavitz. So

24:32

he's at least not responsible

24:34

for Wanda's murder but

24:36

there is still Carmen Colon and

24:38

Michelle Manza and

24:41

it should be noted that Carmen was 10 years

24:44

old, Michelle was 11 and Wanda was also 11

24:46

and Nassau was born in 1934 so

24:52

I think he'd be around 37 38 around the time

24:54

of these murders so it's not impossible

24:59

although Nassau lived in Rochester

25:02

at that time there is no evidence

25:04

that directly connects him to any of those

25:07

alphabet murders. So now this brings

25:09

us to the trial. During a preliminary

25:11

hearing Nassau showed that while he

25:13

may be older now he was no less honoree.

25:16

He accused prosecutors of misunderstanding,

25:20

here's that nonchalantness that he uses with

25:22

raping women, he accused prosecutors

25:25

of misunderstanding his use of the word

25:28

rape saying quote in

25:30

my culture and where I come

25:33

from New York it's a term

25:35

for making out, scoring, getting

25:37

to first base, I use that term loosely

25:40

end quote and Tim we know

25:42

people in that age range or

25:44

a little younger have you ever

25:46

heard any of the of your elders

25:49

ever say oh back in my day the

25:52

term rape was just kind of used as

25:54

a loose term for making out

25:57

get together with my girlfriend and do

25:59

a little rape. I mean that's

26:01

an insane thing to say. He's obviously trying

26:03

to cover his tracks. It's just

26:05

not true. It's just Absolutely

26:08

absurd and he goes on to say that Everything

26:11

was consensual and he even

26:13

boasted quote. I

26:16

could probably get half the women in this room

26:18

to disrobe Voluntarily end

26:20

quote which is also you know

26:22

not true So, you know

26:24

just it doesn't help his previous

26:27

point saying that in court Like

26:29

it's completely absurd. Oh

26:31

the arrogance. That's just like Exuding

26:34

from him even in this moment in a preliminary

26:36

hearing Well and

26:39

prosecutors called his former wife Judith

26:41

then 73 to provide evidence

26:44

in a prelim hearing She said that her

26:46

former husband once told her that

26:48

he had given her something to knock

26:51

her out and that twice in the

26:53

summer Of 1976 she believed

26:55

she was drugged and sexually assaulted

26:57

by him This poor woman. She's 73

27:01

years old. This is her life now. She has

27:03

to revisit her relationship

27:05

to this animal and Has

27:08

to relive these moments where

27:10

he probably Manipulated her into thinking that

27:13

this was something that was her fault or this was something

27:15

that was normal in their relationship

27:18

She goes on to state that on

27:21

one of the occasions after an evening out at

27:23

a nightclub with Nassau She

27:25

was at a San Francisco hotel where

27:27

she awoke to find two strange men

27:30

in her bed They were quickly quote

27:32

scurried away and quote and Nassau

27:34

was left standing there watching Another

27:37

time she woke up in her own bed to

27:39

find one of her husband's friends lying on

27:41

top of her With this poor woman this

27:43

poor woman who is done

27:46

nothing more than Agree

27:48

to have a partnership

27:50

with this guy is this complete animal

27:53

and Defending himself

27:55

at the preliminary hearing he asked his

27:57

former wife if he had ever physically

28:00

abused or threatened her, or if she

28:02

had ever heard of him harming another person.

28:05

Judith responded, well, you did tell

28:08

me shortly after we married that you

28:10

were charged with rape. And Nassau

28:12

shot back. That was back in the 50s. Good

28:16

for her, though. I said this poor woman

28:18

before, but in a sense

28:20

of like, I feel bad that she

28:22

had to live her life with this guy, but

28:24

good for her for taking the stand

28:27

and knowing that he's defending himself. That's

28:29

going to be questions from another attorney.

28:32

These are coming directly from the man who assaulted

28:34

you and just good for her,

28:36

for standing her ground

28:39

and giving that information. You did

28:41

tell me that you were charged with rape. I mean,

28:43

that was back in the 50s, I guess, when rape wasn't

28:46

such a serious

28:47

matter

28:49

to partake in.

28:50

And during the trial,

28:52

the prosecution claimed that Nassau

28:54

drugged and photographed his victims, strangled

28:57

them and dumped their naked bodies in

28:59

rural areas of Marin and

29:01

Contra Costa counties in

29:03

the 1970s. And the prosecution

29:06

presented a total of 70 witnesses. Nassau

29:09

continued to represent himself at trial,

29:12

though he did not testify. He called

29:14

a total of seven witnesses to the stand and

29:16

insisted someone else committed the murders,

29:19

that evidence was planted and that

29:21

the whole case against him was politically

29:23

motivated because he's

29:26

big into that scene. And

29:28

in his closing arguments, he told

29:30

the jury he was not a monster and

29:33

denied killing the women. Prosecutors

29:35

put forth a trove of evidence found

29:38

in Nassau's Reno, Nevada

29:40

home, including the photographs in

29:42

journal mentioned earlier. You

29:44

know, I'm not going to get too hung up on it, but that whole

29:48

thing about it being politically motivated

29:50

against him is so ridiculous.

29:52

It's such an empty theory

29:55

to put out there because

29:57

people here are politically motivated and it opens

29:59

up. up all of these other scenarios

30:02

that the jury is considering, like

30:04

politically motivated. Is he on

30:07

track to be a

30:10

spokesperson for some organization or is

30:12

he politically

30:15

aligned with an organization

30:18

that goes against the man? Just putting it

30:20

out there is so, like

30:23

a throwaway term that is

30:25

so damaging I think but so empty at the same

30:27

time. I mean in today's day and age it

30:29

feels like that defense is overused

30:32

so it's just, it's, I don't

30:34

know, it's drowned out these days I feel

30:36

like. Again I said I wasn't going to get too hung up on it

30:38

but it just, for whatever reason, annoys

30:41

the hell out of me. And Nassau was convicted

30:43

of strangling the four victims in Northern

30:46

California each with matching initials,

30:48

Ruxine Ragache, Carmen Colon,

30:51

Pamela Parsons, and Tracy Tafoya.

30:54

Jurors recommended the death penalty.

30:56

Barron County Superior Court Judge Andrew

30:59

Sweet called the 79-year-old Nassau

31:03

a, quote, evil and disturbed man

31:05

as he handed down a sentence of

31:07

death for three of the murders and a life

31:09

sentence for the fourth because there was

31:11

no death penalty in California

31:14

at the time of Ragache's

31:16

murder. And Judge Sweet said the murders

31:18

were, quote, vicious, brutal, and committed

31:21

with a high degree of cruelty,

31:23

end quote. He said the motives

31:25

for the killings was, quote, sexual

31:27

in nature, planned and deliberate, end

31:30

quote.

31:31

And

31:32

a detective working on the case in 2009,

31:34

Robert Hetzky, said you

31:36

have this aura of the initials. Are

31:38

they connected? Are they not connected? We

31:41

don't know that. And it is possible that the

31:43

double initials were a coincidence. Apparently

31:46

alliterative names were on a bit

31:48

of a trend when those victims were born.

31:50

And again, a big thanks to Marianne for putting together the research

31:54

on Joseph Nassau. And I really hope that we

31:56

do follow up episodes on this because the psychology

31:59

behind his is fascinating.

32:01

And I think we can learn a lot from it if we could have someone

32:04

in that field to come on to speak about this. The

32:07

purpose of shoplifting

32:09

underwear to dress women with, the

32:11

photographs, how he was so

32:14

organized in his detailing and his diary,

32:17

and just his overall

32:19

arrogance when he's choosing

32:21

to defend himself, what he's saying

32:24

to the jurors and what he's saying just in general

32:26

to the court, I think is really fascinating.

32:28

So I'd love to have somebody to come on

32:30

and we can go through again the psychology

32:33

of the man and his crimes and

32:35

his MO. I find it too

32:37

hard to believe that his victims

32:39

having the same letter in their

32:41

first and last last names is

32:44

just a coincidence. But it also

32:46

seems like a weird way

32:49

to find victims. Like, how do you

32:51

even go out of your way to find

32:53

victims? Do you like turn down victims

32:56

who don't have that? I'm just I'm

32:58

confused about that whole process. I

33:01

don't know that there's any academic research

33:03

on that or if he was ever really spoken to

33:05

about how he chose victims, but I'd

33:08

be curious to learn more about that too. Yeah,

33:10

me too. That's a great point because maybe

33:13

there was one that was a coincidence and he

33:16

recognized that and thought that that would be interesting

33:20

is a terrible word to use. But that would be an

33:22

interesting way to commit his crimes, that that's who

33:24

he focused on. But how do

33:27

you find that out? And again, like

33:29

you said, what if you are approaching somebody

33:31

and they don't have the double initials? Do you just abandon

33:34

the plot? Or do you move

33:36

forward with it? And they're just not counted

33:38

as those double initial victims? Yeah,

33:41

I don't know. And where do you get the names when Google

33:43

doesn't exist? The phone book? Well,

33:45

that's actually a great point. Could be I guess.

33:48

And if you've gotten the information on potential

33:50

other victims of Nassau's, hit

33:52

us up at crawlspacepodcasts at gmail.com.

33:56

Thanks a lot for listening.

33:57

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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