0:00

This is a Glassbox Media Podcast.

0:06

How's it going everyone? It's Tim and Lance here. Have

0:08

you ever wanted someone to read you

0:11

creepy bedtime stories in the most velvety

0:13

voice ever? Well you had

0:15

me hooked at Velvety Tim. We are

0:17

excited to share a podcast that is

0:20

exactly that. It's called Nighty Night Bedtime

0:22

Stories to Keep You Awake. And Tim,

0:24

it's narrated by a friend of ours.

0:27

That's right, New York Times bestselling author

0:29

and podcaster Rabia Shaudry. Nighty

0:31

Night is an anthology featuring classic

0:33

horror stories this season and fictionalized true

0:35

life stories in season one that are

0:38

so creepy that you will realize reality

0:40

is scarier than fiction. And Tim, I

0:42

know our favorite part of each episode

0:44

is at the end when Rabia says,

0:46

but wait, there's more to the story.

0:49

And we get to hear those fascinating

0:51

details about the author and the context

0:53

of the tale. What's your favorite episode?

0:56

My favorite episode is The Tiny Hairs

0:58

from season one, which takes us on

1:01

a harrowing journey when the narrator runs

1:03

into a dangerous man in the woods.

1:05

What about you? Well, mine comes from

1:07

the current season. It's called the Horla

1:09

in which we witness the protagonist spiral

1:11

into a descent of madness. Tim, I

1:13

feel like I'm constantly spiraling into a

1:15

descent of madness. So I really relate

1:17

to that one. Well, I hear that.

1:19

So dim your lights, get under a

1:22

cozy blanket and find and subscribe to

1:24

Nighty Night wherever you get your podcasts.

1:26

Nighty Night, everyone. Nighty

1:28

Night, everyone. Nighty

1:30

Night, everyone. A

1:33

still life sits under a suburban street lamp.

1:36

Three eggs drizzled in

1:38

honey, and it still smells

1:40

like incense. Is

1:42

it magic, witchcraft or prayer?

1:46

I'm Heather Freeman. Join me as

1:48

we meet the everyday Americans who've

1:50

remixed magic, religion and spirituality for

1:52

over 400 years. Listen

1:55

to Magic in the United States wherever

1:57

you get your podcasts. Hey,

2:02

Crawl Space listeners. Lance here. Tim

2:04

and I wanted to share a great episode

2:07

that originally aired in October of last year

2:09

on our other show, Missing. So this episode

2:11

is part one of a two-part conversation with

2:13

a person who probably does not need an

2:15

introduction at this point. Private investigator Greg Overecker

2:18

joins to discuss his new book, The Hunt

2:20

for Brianna Maitland, The Relentless Pursuit of Answers

2:22

to One of Vermont's Biggest Mysteries. And for

2:24

those of you who haven't read this book,

2:27

there are links in the show notes. Tim

2:29

and I highly recommend this book. It's an

2:31

incredible, fascinating story. It's personal. And

2:33

as most of you know, Greg is

2:36

the primary investigator into Brianna Maitland's disappearance,

2:38

which took place on March 19, 2004.

2:42

He connected with Brianna's father, Bruce, in 2006.

2:45

And for nearly 20 years, he's been working

2:47

diligently on Brianna's case. And a quick housekeeping

2:50

note before moving on to the episode, Tim

2:52

and I wanted to let our fine listeners

2:54

know that over the next few weeks, we

2:56

will be restructuring a bit, which will likely

2:58

impact the release schedule. But fear not, this

3:01

is only temporary and we'll be back on

3:03

a regular schedule before you know it. And

3:05

we thank you so much for your patience and understanding in

3:07

this matter. Again, this is part one, part

3:10

two will be live in just a few days, so

3:12

stay tuned for that. Thanks for

3:14

listening, everyone. Welcome

3:38

back to Missing. I am Tim here today

3:40

with Lance. Lance, how are you today? I'm

3:42

doing fantastic today, Tim, because we just finished

3:44

up a conversation that people are going to

3:47

hear with an old friend, somebody who we

3:49

had to reunite with on these airwaves, because

3:52

they have released a book on a

3:54

story that is very near and dear to us. But before

3:56

we get to that, Tim, How are

3:58

you? Dear to

4:00

me at the moment if I

4:03

do a great. especially after reuniting

4:05

with our friend Greg Over Acker.

4:07

our friend and private investigator and

4:09

now author Greg Over Acker. He

4:12

wrote a book called The Hunt

4:14

for Brianna Maitland, the relentless pursuit

4:16

of answers to one of Vermont's

4:18

biggest mysteries And you can get

4:21

it now. It is available on

4:23

below did it to Publishing's website.

4:25

It's Bloated toad.com There's a link

4:27

in the show notes and is.

4:30

Fantastic book said. Greg Road is

4:32

about his bounty hunting career, but

4:34

mostly about the disappearance of Brianna

4:36

Maitland. And. Greg has been working

4:39

with Brew sprint his father on

4:41

this case for over a decade

4:43

now. And. Lance we join the team

4:45

and twenty sixteen or twenty seventeen. Greg

4:47

was in one of the very first

4:50

episodes of Crawl Space and we even

4:52

have a mini series called Missing Brie

4:54

and a Maitland that you can search

4:56

for if for you are looking for

4:58

all the information that we've produced on

5:00

Breathe His Case and that includes a

5:02

lot of interviews with Greg. And for

5:04

those of you who don't know about

5:06

Brianna Me lose disappearance. You. really

5:08

should pick up griggs book because at

5:10

this point it is the definitive book

5:12

that details all of the circumstances surrounding

5:14

brianna before during after the time of

5:16

her disappearance and you really get to

5:19

know greg as a person as an

5:21

investigator and more than a you get

5:23

to know bruce mainland a little bit

5:25

better as someone who wants his daughter

5:27

found but also somebody who wants to

5:29

take that and help other people with

5:31

it and he has started as most

5:33

people know cause we talk about all

5:35

the time private investigation for the missing

5:37

check i would they do it investigation

5:39

for the missing.org tim and i are

5:42

on the board of that non profit

5:44

which provides investigative services to families who

5:46

have missing loved ones and they provide

5:48

those services at no cost to accept

5:50

the nonprofit pays for the expenses of

5:52

the private investigator so the really good

5:54

cause that bruce really needed at the

5:56

time when brianna went missing and was

5:58

fortunate enough that gray thing

12:00

is, is that they had been approached and

12:03

after I got involved too, we would

12:05

get approached a lot by

12:07

PIs and people like that and they just didn't and

12:09

that's kind of in the book. They just didn't understand

12:11

the gravity of it. They just thought, well, I'm going

12:13

to come in and solve this. Just tell me what

12:15

it is. I'll solve it and stuff like that. And

12:17

as soon as they found out that there was an

12:19

emotional and time commitment, everything

12:21

they would just leave. They just thought they're

12:24

going to come in and solve it and walk away and be the hero

12:26

and all this other stuff. It's just

12:28

nonsense. Lou Berry was the

12:30

only one that ever walked in with realistic

12:32

expectations and made a commitment. I'm curious what

12:34

it was about the poster that made you

12:37

want to commit it to memory and

12:40

take the time to consider

12:42

reaching out directly that stood out as

12:44

far as like other missing

12:46

persons posters that you'd probably seen in the

12:49

past. You know, I don't know. And it's

12:51

a really weird thing because all these years

12:53

it's always felt like something I'm supposed to

12:55

be doing. I can't explain it. I

12:58

don't believe in, you know me, you guys

13:00

know me. I don't believe in anything to

13:02

do with superstition or the spirits. They're all

13:04

around you, Greg. You literally see them. Not

13:06

believing that even a little bit, but it

13:09

always felt like something I was supposed to

13:11

be doing. And I don't know, understand what

13:13

that is. But I believe,

13:15

I believe that everyone should have a dragon

13:17

to slay. I believe that everybody should get

13:19

up in the morning and have something that

13:22

they're going after. I took a break in

13:24

I think 2011, but

13:26

I always felt like I had to come back into

13:28

the fold. I mean, I always stayed in touch with

13:30

Bruce, but yeah. So I

13:33

don't know what drew me to it so much, but I

13:36

was. I like that. Everyone should have

13:38

a dragon to slay. I think that's a

13:40

cool line. What makes

13:42

you uniquely qualified to investigate

13:44

a missing persons case? So,

13:47

you know, I don't know. Prior

13:50

to this, so in my twenties, I started

13:53

bounty hunting and in

13:55

the state of New York, you know, it

13:57

wasn't something like there were bail bond

13:59

offices on every. corner. So I gravitated to

14:01

other states where that was the case. So

14:04

what I would do is I would advertise nationwide

14:06

and I would get like a 1 to 4

14:08

percent return on my advertisements. Back then it was

14:10

old school or I would send away for phone

14:12

books from major cities you know Patterson,

14:14

New Jersey, Newark, New Jersey stuff like that

14:17

and I would go through and literally send

14:20

every bail bond company an ad with

14:22

a plastic Rolodex card. Remember

14:24

Rolodexes? So I would travel to

14:26

those states or work would derive out of those states. So

14:28

a lot of times states down south

14:31

would call me and say I need somebody picked

14:33

up up in the Northeast and brought back to

14:35

me. That's kind of how that business functions. They

14:38

don't want to come up here looking for somebody they'll

14:40

send you if unless they have to.

14:43

So I would travel to these places all the time and

14:45

then when I'm down there you know I would get work

14:47

down there so I would stay down there and stuff like

14:49

that and I met a PI that

14:51

I eventually went to work for and became a

14:53

mentor in New Jersey Scott Churchill. That's kind of

14:55

in the book too briefly. My

14:57

publisher wanted me to go into all that and

14:59

he wanted me to basically

15:01

write half a book on that and

15:04

I didn't want to take away

15:06

from brand a story which is

15:08

why my design my chapter is

15:10

small. I just didn't

15:13

want to distract from all that stuff but

15:15

anyway at some

15:17

point I just realized I

15:19

don't want to be doing this all the time

15:21

for a couple of reasons. It's can

15:24

be violent work but it's also just

15:26

time away. Nobody wants to be

15:29

first of all, nobody wants to get into a

15:31

relationship with someone that's like well I'm leaving for

15:33

work when you're gonna be back I have no

15:35

idea. Could be two days could

15:37

be two weeks. Nobody wants to

15:39

do that. It was adventurous and everything but

15:42

it gets old and it being in hotel

15:44

rooms away from home ain't shitty food and

15:47

you know it can be exhausting in that way

15:49

and I think if I was based in a

15:51

metropolitan area you know if I lived in Los

15:53

Angeles or something I could you

15:55

do that full-time and function around your city

15:57

or nearby and farm all their

15:59

work. and

20:00

sit in bed and just type and put

20:02

90% of it together that way. And I

20:04

had paperwork strewn everywhere because

20:06

I have tons of paperwork, court documents

20:09

and stuff from Brianna's case. You

20:11

know, that's the other thing I tell

20:13

people is there's so it's heavy reading

20:15

because there's so many facts. It's places,

20:17

it's people, it's times, it's conversations, it's

20:21

what took place and dispelling

20:23

rumors and all that other stuff. But

20:25

when for everybody that wants

20:27

to know about Brianna's case, that's the

20:31

facts. That's all the facts you're gonna get.

20:33

I want to get into specifics in a

20:35

moment but I'm just curious why did you

20:37

decide to write a book? So

20:39

during the pandemic I was extremely isolated. I

20:42

don't have any family here and stuff so

20:44

I just sat home and I got a

20:46

project to do. It's the

20:48

drag and display. I'm gonna write this book. So

20:51

my brother's like why don't you just do this? You've been talking about how

20:53

to do it. I had the time,

20:55

I was home. Once I got into it

20:57

and it helps me because I see things

20:59

in order and I see all the facts laid

21:02

out so it helps me a

21:04

lot to keep this stuff in my mind.

21:06

Now I can recall these facts and and

21:08

know what happened as opposed to what and people.

21:10

You know, I get confused now.

21:12

Lou will look into a

21:14

tip we get or something and you'll have all this

21:17

information and I'm not like him. I can't absorb it

21:19

like he does so he'll be

21:21

naming names and stuff and I'll keep question.

21:23

Who's that again? What's this? So that helps

21:25

me to do this. It's therapeutic. Yeah, let's

21:27

get into some specifics here. Can

21:29

you tell us what you know

21:31

about Brianna and what was her life like before she

21:33

went missing? When Bruce and I discussed this he wanted

21:36

me to do it 100%. He said I wouldn't have

21:38

I wouldn't want anybody else to write a book about it

21:40

because you see people put things into

21:42

books that just shouldn't be in books for starters. He

21:45

gave me his blessing. When you look

21:48

at their life prior he didn't

21:50

want a big chapter on their

21:53

family. It's intrusive. I mean

21:55

it's everyone's peeking in your windows all the time

21:57

as it is kind of thing. So

22:00

to give the basics about her life was

22:03

fine. I mean, but it's that if you if you read that,

22:05

nobody's ever mentioned it, but if you read

22:08

the chapter about the Maitland's and it seems

22:10

thin, it's that way by design. But

22:13

it does give, I think, all

22:15

you need to know the way they lived, where they

22:17

lived, what was going on

22:19

in their life. When you look at it,

22:21

you think, what a cool way to live.

22:24

They have two homes, a mile long driveway

22:26

back into the woods to these two homes

22:28

that is a thousand feet from the Canadian

22:30

border. It's an outdoorsman's dream.

22:32

You know, they're camping on their

22:34

own property. They can hunt

22:36

on their own property. They've, they've got it

22:38

set up kind of back to the land,

22:41

solar power, water power, heating with wood, all

22:43

this other stuff. Bruce is

22:46

working at forestry as a

22:48

forester. But what he didn't realize, and this is

22:50

talked about in the book, what

22:52

he didn't realize was how isolated she felt.

22:55

Kids want to run with kids kind of thing.

22:59

She wanted to be in town where she could be with the

23:01

kids and stuff like that. And there's that opposition

23:04

to in the way they live up there where

23:06

you drive through from upper north of

23:09

Vermont and you think, what a wholesome

23:11

looking place where there's, you know, it's the

23:13

state is 76% forested and

23:16

it's really sparsely populated.

23:18

And, you know, what do you think of

23:20

when you think of Vermont leaf peeping and

23:22

maple syrup and all this

23:24

other stuff? Well, there's a huge drug

23:26

problem. There's a lot of

23:29

boredom, brutal winters.

23:31

So she kind of moved into that,

23:34

being around, unfortunately, being around some

23:36

unsavory people and stuff. And so that's

23:38

kind of talked about too. Yeah.

23:41

And unfortunately, you have to talk about the drug

23:43

problem that was taking place at that time in

23:45

the area and the

23:48

related characters that come into play when

23:50

you discuss the drug problem. What

23:53

was the drug problem? What drug was it?

23:55

Where was it coming from? And can you

23:57

give us some, some names of some of

23:59

these people? That brought or encouraged or

24:01

escalated that problem. There was a crack

24:03

cocaine epidemic going out at the time.

24:07

In it If you look back at

24:09

the different drug props it was. Course

24:11

we had a really bad one now

24:13

with opioids which is devastating country it

24:15

came through an it was like a

24:17

cancer in that area but. It

24:20

was being pumped up from like Springfield Mass

24:22

in Nam with taught from New York City

24:24

and would go in there like a pipeline

24:26

against you Burlington and they move farther north

24:28

and the scene aventis of into the people

24:30

were literally. Go. In there

24:33

and just setting up camp. To. Sell

24:35

drugs, And. Date:

24:38

The if you think about it. They. Were

24:40

living the dream because they would go to these

24:42

areas and. They. Were from. Really?

24:46

Big metropolitan areas but they've got their live in

24:48

the country and is a small towns the money

24:50

they have to work. In.

24:52

Our they were. Having a ball.

24:56

Scattered taken over the place in in

24:58

making a ton of money but they

25:00

wreak havoc in it and it just

25:02

was poisoned everybody and destroyed Families be

25:04

people are still having problems with this

25:06

stuff today. To but the To as

25:08

a main character sit in on. I didn't go to

25:10

these guys too much in the book. But.

25:13

Up. Everybody. Knows or name

25:15

knows this case, Ramon Ryan's in their Samuel

25:17

Jackson and in they were. There.

25:20

Among that, Brianna as friends. You.

25:22

Two guys, New York City came up and

25:24

that's what they did this on. drugs. In.

25:27

They they were part of that pipeline and they were

25:29

part of. The guys came up and just did their

25:31

thing and kind of destroyed voice and everybody. And

25:33

will be right back. After a quick word

25:36

from our sponsors. Like

25:38

so our sponsors in our back to the program.

25:43

Okay, so tell us a bit

25:45

about the circumstances. Of

25:48

Brianna mainland disappearance. So Brianna.

25:51

Was. Working March nineteen, two thousand and

25:53

four to Black Lantern in in

25:55

Montgomery. She left eleven twenty pm.

25:58

And. car was found two minutes down the

26:01

road, literally two minute drive down the road, backed

26:03

into an abandoned home and

26:07

she was never seen again. So there were

26:09

witnesses to the

26:11

car starting at midnight. There were witnesses that viewed

26:13

the vehicle. It was prominently displayed on the side

26:16

of the road. The next

26:18

day at about 1 p.m a state trooper

26:20

came by and viewed the vehicle and had

26:23

it towed. There were paychecks on her seat and he

26:25

went up the road to the black lander and in

26:27

and it was closed. He was going to inquire

26:29

about the car. He then went on a long

26:31

weekend and her disappearance kind of

26:34

went into limbo. So days went by before anyone

26:36

was alerted and then when she was staying at

26:38

a friend's house at

26:41

the time she had left home and was kind of

26:43

going from house to house and staying with friends

26:45

and stuff like that. She just didn't want to

26:48

be up in the isolated, up on their home,

26:50

up on Boston Post Road. So

26:52

her friend eventually alerted the family that she hadn't

26:55

come back to the house and they

26:57

ended up going to the police department and saw in

26:59

a timeline in the book where how

27:03

that transpired and how the police eventually

27:05

got involved. But a lot

27:07

of time was wasted. A lot.

27:10

You know what stood out to me in

27:12

the book that wasn't directly written but you

27:15

can kind of put the pieces together in your

27:17

own head was that you said the car is

27:20

was prominently displayed and it was. I mean it's

27:22

the cover of your book as well. The car

27:24

backed into the Dutch Bern House. It's

27:27

such a small community. It's such a small

27:29

town. Everybody knew everybody and like

27:31

you said Brianna wanted to leave

27:33

the isolated environment

27:36

that she was in at her parent's house because

27:38

she wanted to be around her

27:40

friends and people of her own age and just

27:42

more activity in town. Is

27:45

there any way like why didn't the word

27:47

spread faster about Brianna's car being backed into

27:49

the Dutch Bern House or did it and

27:51

it's just kind of not known or or

27:54

because that that kind of confused me. It's like

27:57

even back then if I'd seen a friend's car

27:59

back. into a house, I feel like there would have

28:01

been a lot more chatter about, Oh, did you see so-and-so's

28:04

car? Like, what was that all about? But maybe there

28:06

was. It was a strange thing. On

28:08

March 19th, 1120, she goes, she

28:11

leaves work. Around midnight,

28:13

it starts where we have four

28:15

witnesses. One of them was two people in

28:17

a car together, boyfriend and girlfriend. One of

28:20

them was a man who had a family member who lived in town. Another

28:23

was a boy. And

28:26

this isn't anything new. I can

28:28

say his name publicly. James Robitelli,

28:31

she grew up with him, basically. She knew him. She

28:34

dated him on and off in that small town kind of way. He

28:37

actually viewed the vehicle, got out,

28:39

walked up to it, it had its lights on.

28:41

It's backed into this abandoned home. It's got its

28:43

lights on. It's got a directional on. Both

28:47

doors are open. He shuts the doors, turns off the

28:49

lights, shuts the doors and

28:51

leaves. And, you know, one question why he

28:53

didn't call the police, he just said that,

28:56

you know, she wasn't there. She was intoxicated and he said,

28:58

I'm not going to call the police on myself. So

29:02

he goes, I left, figuring she, she got home

29:04

or somebody got her out of there. And

29:07

that's always been a weird situation in and of

29:09

itself because he lied many times to the police

29:11

about it, about what time he was

29:13

there, where he was coming from and all this other stuff.

29:16

So that's an issue. But then in the

29:18

morning, there's passers by that stop and take

29:20

pictures. And that's pretty well documented in the book.

29:23

Then prior to 1pm, and they come

29:25

by around 830, prior to 1pm,

29:28

a slew of people have, nobody's reported it to

29:30

us, but they have to see the car. It's

29:32

right there by the side of the road. There's

29:34

traffic there. Now we've

29:36

heard people in the comments say, Oh yeah, I saw the car

29:38

that morning. Oh yeah, I saw the car that morning. They

29:41

just drove by it. Now I'm

29:43

with Lance on this, but Lou

29:46

and I, Lou's got

29:48

a different opinion. Now Lou will tell

29:50

you that as a police officer, they

29:52

find abandoned vehicles all the time. It's

29:55

not that uncommon. Cops are weird stuff. You don't realize

29:57

that. You don't know what you don't know. up.

32:01

I think you're on shift, you're sitting in

32:04

a cruiser. I get a

32:07

little irritated. That's

32:09

understandable. Tell us a little bit

32:11

about the Dutchburn house. This

32:13

wasn't an occupied

32:16

house at the time of the crash.

32:19

No. The Dutchburn house where the car

32:21

was backed into, two

32:23

men lived there, last name was Dutchburn.

32:26

It's all Farmfield. There's a picture in the book where

32:29

you can see there's nothing around it. It's just on

32:31

the side of the road and there's big fields around

32:33

it and then woods off in the distance. It's

32:36

on a gradual bend. They were elderly men

32:38

who had a dairy farm and

32:42

spent their whole life right there in that area.

32:44

Chloe wrote an article that

32:47

I put in the book just to give

32:49

people an idea of the home. She

32:52

wrote a really good article about it, explains everything.

32:55

I think they had left town once to

32:58

go visit somebody or something, but they just worked

33:00

12, 14 hour days or

33:02

something every day of their life in that barn.

33:04

I think they even said one

33:06

of them was all hunched over from being hunched over in

33:08

the barn and everything. They had had

33:10

a home invasion. Somebody locally knew that they

33:12

carried cash on them. Those guys, they had

33:15

thousands of dollars, put them in their overall

33:17

pocket and walked around with it all day

33:19

long. They got hurt during the home invasion.

33:21

They returned home for a short time, but

33:23

then they went into nursing homes and they eventually

33:25

passed away. The home sat vacant ever since. The

33:28

home kind of had that aura of

33:30

a tragedy

33:32

to begin with.

33:35

Lance brought this up years ago in a podcast

33:37

we were talking about. How odd is it that

33:40

there's another tragedy there? I

33:42

know something that comes up often

33:44

when talking about Briana's case is

33:47

that area and that I guess it

33:50

was kind of like a parking lot that was next

33:53

to the Dutchburn house. Is

33:55

that a meetup spot for kids? I know

33:57

a lot of people talk about

33:59

that. Is that a common area

34:01

for people to stop and maybe have a smoke

34:03

or something like that? No, that was a big

34:05

thing we asked everybody. It wasn't really a parking

34:07

area. What it was was like

34:10

if you pulled off the side of the road, it was

34:12

kind of where they parked

34:14

when they lived there where you could just pull off

34:16

the side of the road and onto a gradual flat

34:19

piece of land right in front of their house. But

34:22

that's it. No, nobody stopped there. Nobody would

34:24

go there to party or anything like that.

34:27

Which is funny because, and that's another

34:29

thing that I guess when

34:32

people look at the case or they read articles about it and

34:34

stuff, people always say, well, did they search the house? Did

34:36

they search the house? They did, but no one's going to go in

34:38

the house. It's just a shell

34:41

of a home actually. It's old and weathered

34:43

and fucked windows boarded up. The

34:45

area though is, like you said, the house

34:47

itself is sort of sitting there in the

34:49

middle of an open space and

34:52

it's not there today. So if anybody's listening

34:54

and they want to go explore it, it's

34:56

not there today. There's some

34:58

remnants of foundation. But it

35:00

is on one of the main roads though that

35:03

goes through town, correct? Yeah.

35:06

So when you're in that area, because it's

35:08

sparsely populated, it's common to

35:11

travel into Montgomery that way, which Montgomery

35:13

is very small. So

35:15

you're just kind of driving through this little

35:17

town, kind of like a hamlet. All right.

35:20

Tell us a little bit more about James. So

35:22

I know James and Brianna kind

35:25

of had a relationship. What's

35:27

the story with him coming by the

35:29

car that night? I think that fact

35:31

kind of, I don't know, confuses

35:33

some people, me included. So

35:36

it's, you know, James passed

35:38

away in a car accident,

35:40

unfortunately. So Brianna was

35:42

friends with him and his sister and

35:45

dated James on and off. And

35:49

part of it, part of it, I think too, it gets lost

35:52

when people read

35:54

about this and you know the deal. People really

35:56

get involved in this case. They really Gravitate

35:59

to it and read everything. then you can read

36:01

on it and in all this other stuff and

36:03

he gets confusing. But one thing that really gets

36:05

lost his that Brianna was one hundred pounds seventeen

36:07

year old kid. People. Start of

36:09

Uber is a woman and she wasn't. She.

36:12

Was it. An amateur seventeen

36:14

year old kid. Friendly

36:17

James in her head just. On

36:20

again off again relationship times but there

36:22

are friends and you know when Brianna

36:24

was travel around and stain of people's

36:26

houses in terms of a death she

36:28

x x state it.james and his sister

36:30

Hillary's grandparents' house so people took her

36:32

and and can look after and stuff

36:35

like that in that was a way

36:37

of monitoring her to. Change

36:40

over time. But the weird thing about James

36:42

was that of course of what happened with

36:44

the car, the fact that he was there,

36:46

he touched it, he lied to police. Well,

36:48

he'll be in there. Are certain times and

36:50

do a search stuff. he became very

36:52

questionable on every wonders if he was

36:54

involved and you know and I don't

36:56

blame him. But I'm we don't

36:59

have any evidence of anything in doing

37:01

anything wrong, but it's It's certainly sparks

37:03

everyone's interest in I when he was

37:06

that apply to me was twenty two

37:08

or something days prior to her going

37:10

missing, choosing to flee he was there

37:12

with her that they. Are

37:14

to come on up in a few days. Check

37:17

out the link in the show notes to purchase

37:19

a copy of Greg's. By

38:03

Media.