0:00

It's February and love is in the air,

0:03

but if you're in a relationship with the

0:05

wrong sales platform, things might not be feeling

0:07

like roses and boxes of chocolates. Not

0:10

to worry, Sales Hub from HubSpot is your

0:12

knight in shining tech armor, because darn it,

0:14

you deserve to feel the love long past

0:16

cuffing season. HubSpot built its

0:19

all-in-one platform to help teams prospect smarter,

0:21

boost revenue, and scale in all the

0:23

right ways. Plus, it's easy to learn.

0:25

There are AI-powered tools that help you

0:27

save time to focus on building relationships,

0:30

and it's completely free to start. What's

0:32

not to love about that? So

0:34

it's time to break up with your old sales

0:36

platform and fall head over heels in love with

0:38

Sales Hub. With Sales Hub, closing

0:41

deals is no big deal. Head

0:43

to hubspot.com/sales to try it for

0:45

free. A lot of

0:47

creators dream of creating and selling an online course.

0:51

But creating is the easy part. It's selling

0:53

that's the hard part. If you've ever talked to

0:56

anyone about selling a $10,000, $20,000 offer, they'll tell you you

0:59

have to do sales calls. I was like, no,

1:02

no, I'm definitely not going to

1:04

do that. That's Mariah Kause, the

1:06

founder of Fearless CEO. Mariah has spent

1:08

the last seven years working closely with

1:10

business owners on their courses, group programs,

1:12

webinars, evergreen funnels, and more. But Mariah

1:15

didn't love the launch model, so she

1:17

built a new method that she calls

1:19

the high ticket hybrid. I

1:21

innovated a way to not do

1:24

sales calls at scale, and it

1:26

worked like gangbusters. Everyone started asking, how

1:28

are you doing that? Wait, what does

1:31

that look like? What's the strategy? People

1:33

were like blown away. As a result

1:35

of the high ticket hybrid and its

1:37

popularity, Mariah has been able to step

1:39

off the treadmill of constantly creating new

1:41

free content. I literally eliminated

1:43

the need for like high volume list

1:45

building and audience growth, which eliminated the

1:48

need for a lot of these like

1:50

common content marketing sort of strategies. I

1:52

was like, I don't really want to

1:54

do that. So In this episode, you'll

1:56

learn how Mariah thinks about pricing, how to design

1:58

your own high ticket hybrid. Program how to

2:00

avoid sales calls and why You may want

2:03

to consider an evergreen offer and hear your

2:05

thoughts on this episode as he listens. You

2:07

can find me on Twitter or Instagram at

2:09

a cloud. Tag me, say hello, let me

2:11

know the listening or at leave a comment

2:13

here on Youtube and now a soccer Mariah.

2:31

He. The all new rule I

2:33

don't. Like listening to other people telling

2:35

you what to do so safely always like

2:37

I'm an hour to start a business is

2:39

no way I'm in a be able to

2:42

like have a regular job and one of

2:44

the things I was really interested in an

2:46

going to. School for not traditional

2:48

school but going. To very nontraditional

2:50

was ah like sustainable building it

2:52

specifically at the time. This is

2:54

back in like Twenty thirteen twenty

2:57

fourteen and super super into like

2:59

tiny houses and living in a.

3:01

Clown for it was cool way before with call

3:03

I got like with we would like me and

3:05

three other people were like the first people to

3:08

be talking about. That sounds really where I

3:10

started like Online Dallas where it started

3:12

a blog in that arena and that

3:14

with were at launch my first digital

3:16

products and I was super inspired by

3:18

i'm sure you don't eighth and Bury

3:20

like back in the day hooks his

3:22

ah his approach back in the day

3:25

and now I'm friends with me that

3:27

it it's great I was like one

3:29

of the first convert to users like

3:31

they're awesome but back in the day

3:33

reading his book I was like oh

3:35

case but my niece at the time

3:37

with all around you know. Renovating Campers

3:39

living in vans. I have lived in

3:41

my car for a while who are

3:43

renovate you know turned into a camper

3:46

van all through the lens of like

3:48

sustainable building and so that was like

3:50

my first website, blog contents and my

3:52

first digital products with all About That

3:54

and it was the first one of

3:56

it's kind in stay if you know

3:58

people were had been traveling to these

4:00

in person building workshops and in person

4:03

you know workshops to get hands on

4:05

experience and I was like you know

4:07

in her and I had thought I

4:09

had taught the in person workshops you

4:11

know dozens of times I was a

4:13

guest speaker an expert at you know

4:15

all of those in person workshop and

4:18

eventually I was like we've put this

4:20

on line like we could definitely translate

4:22

that's to an online thing and people

4:24

were like you'll never be able to

4:26

do that because people want to like

4:28

learn how to build things. In person

4:30

but there is definitely components of is

4:33

that could be it's I'm covered in

4:35

an online for by. I created my

4:37

own courses. I collaborated with other people

4:39

in that industry with their courses about

4:42

tiny houses and buildings, sustainable with systems

4:44

and stuff like that and that was

4:46

really really got started and that became

4:49

a successful like business. way beyond what

4:51

I anticipated. I did not set out

4:53

to be successful. I set out to

4:55

like, you know, make enough money to

4:58

live in my car Like how. is

5:00

not try to eyes on trying to

5:02

be fancy a vice it really became

5:04

more successful and then of course what

5:06

always happens is people start asking you

5:08

how are you doing that's like how

5:10

did you see know i was back

5:12

in and this is back in like

5:14

twenty fourteen twenty fifteen i started my

5:16

current business in twenty sixteen it looked

5:18

a lot different than bites that was

5:20

kind of the class where people started

5:22

asking like how are you how are

5:24

you having this like a big affiliate

5:26

program for your see a sustainable building

5:28

courser like how are you doing the

5:30

marketing for it or how does that

5:32

funnel work really people don't even know

5:34

what the word funnel meds right is

5:36

that like it's people were just like

5:38

how are you promoting it how are

5:40

you selling this is real product and

5:42

everyone started asking me about it in

5:44

that little tiny space and then it

5:46

sort of grew beyond that and i

5:48

realize that if i was going to

5:50

talk about those topics i had to

5:52

put it on like a separate blog

5:54

a separate website separate topic thousand and

5:56

talk about business stuff so in twenty

5:58

fifteen i treated the

6:00

website and the blog all around

6:03

business topics and it totally just

6:05

organically grew out of people asking

6:08

me how I was doing the stuff that I had

6:10

been doing in a very B2C niche,

6:12

had nothing to do with make money online,

6:14

had nothing to do with content creation, it

6:17

had nothing to do with any of that.

6:20

It was literally like helping people renovate

6:22

and move into their old trailers that

6:24

we had all gotten into. At

6:27

some point, I'm sure that you were sitting

6:29

at this crossroads where you had the building

6:32

blog and

6:34

then you had this online business blog and

6:36

they're probably roughly about the same size

6:38

or success and I'm

6:41

not talking to Mariah Kause,

6:44

the tiny home blogger right now. Right. So

6:47

talk to me about at what point did

6:49

you decide, okay, I'm actually gonna put all

6:51

my focus over here because I think a

6:53

lot of people experience these moments of like,

6:56

okay, I have A and B, which

6:58

one do I choose? I become very obsessive about things

7:01

and then I am like totally sick of

7:03

them and just wanna move on and do

7:06

the next thing and

7:08

I've always been like that, like my personality is like

7:10

that, I go all in on a topic, get super

7:12

obsessed, become like the number one expert in it and

7:14

then I'm just like, literally, I'm like, I

7:16

never wanna talk about that again. And it's

7:18

like a two to three year cycle and

7:21

so really by the

7:23

time that the pivot point

7:27

or like by the time the sort

7:29

of two intersecting axes started to collide

7:31

where it's like, okay, like the business

7:34

blog is meeting and

7:36

starting to exceed the other thing and

7:38

I did both for a good while, I did

7:40

both. At a certain point, it was more

7:42

that I was just like, I feel

7:44

very complete with that, like I

7:46

did that whole thing, I became

7:49

the number one expert on that

7:51

little niche topic, it's like

7:54

I did everything that I could do there and

7:57

I became bored. And

7:59

so what's cool about it is that about the business

8:01

space that we operate in now

8:03

is that I actually still go through these ultimate

8:07

big overhauls, these innovations, these big burn

8:09

it down and build it up again

8:11

cycles. I still have that, but what's

8:13

cool is that we can really innovate

8:16

and do completely new things within the

8:18

context of building a business and still

8:20

talking about that topic. But like I

8:22

said, the topics I was talking about

8:24

business related in 2015 or 2016 is

8:26

so different than what I talk about

8:31

now. And you can look back and really

8:33

see the pivot points where it's like, I've

8:35

been able to continue having that pattern that

8:37

works for my personality of every two years,

8:40

getting completely bored and burnt out on

8:42

something. I never want to talk about

8:44

it again. I did it, seen it,

8:47

don't need to do that anymore. And

8:49

then being able to innovate the next

8:51

thing. And so what's

8:53

cool and lucky for me is that

8:55

I've been able to continue doing that

8:57

within a frame that can

9:00

be somewhat stable rather than literally

9:02

just moving on to a completely

9:04

new business, which honestly, if

9:06

it was, there is probably a

9:08

part of me that would start a brand new business

9:10

in a brand new industry every other

9:13

month if I had no

9:15

constraints whatsoever. Relatable. Yeah.

9:18

If your current business was a book

9:20

and we broke down some of these

9:22

pivot points as like chapters, what are

9:25

some of the main chapters that stand

9:27

out to you over the last six

9:30

years we're talking about when you transition to

9:32

more of the business building type of content

9:34

and offers? What were some of the things

9:36

that you really dialed

9:38

in on for a while, but maybe those chapters

9:40

have completed or at least paused? Yeah,

9:43

you can definitely kind of go through, I call

9:45

it like let's hop in the time machine, ride

9:48

the time machine through the last seven

9:51

years or whatever, however long it's been. But I

9:53

think at first, like many of

9:55

us who, I don't know how many of your listeners

9:57

were in this online space.

10:00

Back in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2015 and 2016, I was very focused on launching, very

10:02

focused on live launching

10:07

and these big promotions a couple

10:09

of times a year. I was

10:11

super focused on webinars and specifically

10:13

joint ventures and affiliates. Like I

10:15

said, I came from having

10:17

run like my the camper

10:19

business was completely affiliate

10:22

driven, like very partner traffic

10:25

driven. And so I

10:27

replicated that in this space and I did,

10:29

gosh, I don't know, dozens, maybe hundreds of

10:32

joint venture affiliate webinars with other people, which

10:34

is how I grew the business in my

10:36

audience very, very quickly. And like I was

10:39

mentioning to you before we came on here,

10:41

I really feel like I learned

10:44

everything about that from being in

10:46

a touring punk band before I

10:48

started any of my businesses. Like,

10:50

I've lived many lives before

10:52

this one. And one of those lives

10:54

was being the singer in a touring punk

10:56

band. And it's literally the

10:58

same thing as setting up affiliate partnerships

11:01

or joint venture webinars or anything like

11:03

that, where, you know, you kind of

11:05

have to call around other bigger bands

11:07

and be like, Hey, will you let

11:10

my band open for your band so

11:12

I can get exposed to your audience

11:14

and your fans. And

11:16

you hope that some of their fans were

11:18

there to see them that they'll, you know,

11:20

like the opening bands and that kind of

11:22

thing. And then you have to reciprocate as

11:25

well. So, you know, I was also having to

11:27

book shows for those other bands when they came

11:29

into my city and vice versa. And it's, it's

11:31

this like big network of like book, you know,

11:34

booking shows for each other and all that kind

11:36

of thing. So it really is

11:38

the same principle of, okay, well, I know

11:40

how to get in front of other people's

11:43

audiences when I was a singer in a

11:45

band and I would have to book these

11:47

collaborations and, you know, do joint songs together

11:49

and all this kind of thing. Like it's

11:52

the same thing, but with a webinar or with a blog

11:54

post or with a podcast, right? Right. It's

11:56

really the same kind of principle. And I

11:58

applied that into the. business world as

12:00

well. So those first two years really

12:03

focused on tons of live webinars, live

12:05

launches. I mean, I was going hard

12:07

and I also burnt out hard. I

12:09

did end up in

12:11

hospital. I

12:13

ended up with my... Yeah,

12:15

I was giving a

12:18

webinar when my appendix burst and I

12:20

kept going and then went to the

12:22

hospital after. Yes. Yeah, went pretty hard.

12:24

That first 18

12:30

months and then was like, whoa, I didn't really

12:32

know. I don't think you really know what your

12:34

limits are until... Yeah. And if

12:36

you asked me, were you tired or were you grinding? I

12:42

literally would have been like, no, I was happy.

12:44

I was good. I do

12:47

not have an empty gauge. I don't have that. It's

12:49

just all of a sudden one day you just can't

12:51

get out of bed and you're like, oh,

12:54

I guess I burned out, but I don't remember

12:57

that happening. I call that touching

12:59

the stove. I always have to touch the stove

13:01

to understand, okay, that's what that limit was. Right.

13:03

And it's not the best way to learn things

13:05

because I could be like, I'm getting near a

13:07

stove. Something feels warm, but no, you go all

13:09

the way and you touch the stove. No, you

13:12

touch the stove and then you get

13:14

burned and then you're like, oh gosh, okay. So

13:16

yeah, there was a lot of that and then

13:19

switched and then made a pretty hard pivot

13:21

to evergreen. And that was where it literally

13:23

became a thing where I was like, a

13:27

lot of people kind of, I think reached that

13:29

point where they've been live launching for a long

13:31

time and I actually love live launching and I

13:33

love evergreen. I think they both like in my

13:36

world, they both exit need to coexist in an

13:38

ecosystem together. But that was when

13:40

I made like a hard pivot to evergreen.

13:42

So I could take like an eight month

13:44

sabbatical and just kind of take

13:46

it easy and kind of restructure how we did

13:48

things. So then for a couple of years, really

13:51

focused on putting our courses on

13:53

evergreen. Now up until this point,

13:55

I had primarily been selling these

13:57

business topic courses for anywhere between.

14:00

$500 to $1,500. That was kind of like 2016 to the end of 2017.

14:02

Now the next hard pivot happened January

14:08

of 2018 was when

14:11

I restructured my business again to

14:13

charge high ticket for the first

14:15

time. And so this is

14:17

my next two year cycle was switching to,

14:19

you know, I'd had all these $1,000 courses

14:23

and switching to combining all the courses and

14:25

adding this very high touch coaching element, which

14:27

I had never done before. It just wasn't

14:29

part of what we did and, you know,

14:32

raise our prices to $10,000

14:34

at that time back in 2018. And that

14:37

was kind of the next phase was

14:39

really focusing on these higher touch, higher

14:41

ticket price point offers. And since

14:43

then we have continued to increase,

14:45

increase, increase what high ticket means

14:47

for us and our offers and

14:50

the level of support that's included

14:52

in that process, figured out

14:54

the thing that we've become famous for. And the

14:56

thing that I invented in this industry is how

14:59

to sell those high ticket offers without

15:01

sales calls, which was kind

15:03

of, you know, in this industry, if you're in,

15:06

if you've ever talked to anyone

15:08

about selling a $10,000, $20,000 offer, they'll tell you you have to do sales

15:10

calls. I was like, no, no, I'm

15:15

definitely not going to do that. I hate

15:17

sales calls. I hate having anything on

15:19

my calendar. Like this

15:21

schedule thing with you, Jay is very,

15:24

very rare, but very exciting. Yes, I

15:26

like don't have anything on my calendar.

15:28

I'm very picky about that. But I

15:31

innovated a way to not do

15:33

sales calls at scale. And it

15:36

worked like gangbusters. And

15:38

then that, of course, became everyone started

15:40

asking, how are you doing that? Wait,

15:42

what does that look like? What's the

15:45

strategy? People were like blown away. And

15:47

so two years later, that became the

15:49

pivot. And it's like, okay, the next

15:52

innovation is again, it

15:54

all grows very organically of

15:57

I innovated something, I figured it out.

16:00

And then people start asking you how you're doing it.

16:02

And you can, I mean, especially with what we now

16:04

call the high ticket hybrid system, which is how we

16:06

sell high ticket without sales calls, especially

16:08

with that, I was extremely resistant to

16:10

ever teaching it to other people. I

16:13

was like, I don't really want to

16:15

teach this. I don't really want this

16:17

to be like, this is not our,

16:19

like our brand was all about creating

16:22

kind of like lower ticket courses

16:24

in niches, in B2C niches, like

16:26

me with the camper stuff. I

16:29

was very specific. I was like, I don't really

16:31

work with other business coaches. Like I don't really

16:33

teach other business owners how to do business strategy.

16:35

That's not my bag. Like I

16:38

focus on the B2C niches that are

16:40

not business related because that's my experience.

16:42

But eventually it just became so like,

16:45

again, people are just begging you to

16:47

tell them. And

16:49

so I created a little pilot program for that.

16:51

And then a few months later,

16:53

there was like 300 people in that

16:55

group. It became, again,

16:57

it kind of became the

17:00

next pivot organically grew into

17:02

the next iteration. And yeah,

17:04

so those are kind of the phases

17:06

of like going through a lot of

17:09

different innovations, even though it's within the

17:11

same category, it feels like I had

17:13

four different, completely different business models in

17:15

that time, you know? Yeah, that's

17:17

a lot of great context. So let me go back and

17:19

clarify a few things that you said, just to make sure that

17:21

everybody listening, watching this are

17:23

on the same page. So you've

17:26

used a couple of different phrases that are kind

17:28

of like binaries. Oh,

17:30

let's talk about low ticket versus high ticket.

17:32

How would you separate those two things for

17:34

people who aren't familiar with that terminology yet?

17:37

So true. And I really want to say if like

17:40

everyone is welcome to define price points

17:42

in whatever categories they

17:44

want for them. I do think that

17:46

depending on your niche, like high ticket

17:48

in some niches might be $2,000, but

17:52

in other niches, $2,000 is like low, low ticket, mid

17:54

ticket. So it depends on your niche. But

17:56

for me, low ticket is like

17:58

$20. to

18:01

$200, mid ticket premium

18:03

course is like $200 to $2,000. And

18:07

then anything $2,500 or $3,000 and up, $3,000,

18:10

$30,000, $60,000 and up, that's high ticket. For

18:14

me, those are kind of the categories

18:16

like low ticket, premium, signature offer, land,

18:18

and then high ticket. And

18:20

can you also give that same

18:22

type of primer for live launches

18:24

versus evergreen sales? Yes, I totally meant

18:26

to do that while I was talking and then just

18:29

kept going on a run. I'm keeping

18:31

track. Yeah. So for

18:33

those of you who aren't super

18:35

familiar, basically an open close enrollment

18:37

window where you open the

18:39

enrollment for your course and then the doors

18:41

close and part closes and you end

18:43

enrollment until maybe three to six months later

18:46

you'll open it up to the public again.

18:48

And during that time in between, you're just

18:51

serving your students and answering their

18:53

questions and running your

18:55

course, but you're not always marketing it

18:57

and always enrolling people. And then evergreen

19:00

is open enrollment all throughout the

19:02

year. But evergreen refers to both

19:05

a marketing kind of strategy

19:07

on the marketing and enrollment side. Like how

19:09

are you, what are the systems that you

19:11

have in place to enroll students

19:13

or clients into your courses all

19:16

the time but also the delivery

19:18

side. Like what are your systems

19:20

and onboarding processes and offboarding processes

19:22

in place for introducing,

19:25

if you have a new student or

19:27

a new client joining your group or

19:29

joining your course every single day, you

19:31

also need the like delivery systems for

19:33

having new people come in through automation

19:36

and how do they start the course and how

19:38

do they know where to go and where's their

19:40

orientation materials and all that kind of thing. So

19:42

it has to do with the marketing and the

19:44

delivery, but evergreen means that you

19:46

have the systems in place to

19:48

be able to enroll and onboard

19:51

and serve those students in your

19:53

courses every single day

19:55

of the year whenever someone's ready to join. After

19:58

a quick break, Mariah and I talk about pricing. trends

20:00

and online courses, and later we dig into

20:02

how you can construct your own high-ticket program.

20:04

So stick around, we'll be right back. Inclusion

20:08

and Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson

20:10

is brought to you by the

20:12

HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination

20:14

for business professionals. Inclusion and Marketing

20:17

digs into important topics like belonging,

20:19

customer experience, and diversity, and how

20:21

you can practice inclusive marketing authentically.

20:23

Because when you lead with inclusivity,

20:25

you win the attention, adoration, loyalty,

20:27

and trust of a broader group

20:29

of consumers. Sonya actually just

20:31

recently published an episode about the truth

20:34

about customer experience, and having a great

20:36

customer experience for all of your customers

20:38

could not be more important. So listen

20:40

to Inclusion and Marketing wherever you get

20:43

your podcasts. If

20:45

you know me, you know how much I

20:47

believe in memberships. My membership is the core

20:49

of my business, and earning an income directly

20:51

from your audience is one of the most

20:53

sustainable ways for you to become a professional

20:55

creator too. So I want to tell you

20:58

about today's sponsor, UScreen. UScreen is

21:00

a beautiful all-in-one platform that helps content

21:02

creators earn a living from their videos

21:04

by unlocking predictable, recurring revenue. You can

21:06

host private live streams to your members,

21:08

build an on-demand catalog of premium content,

21:10

and UScreen gives you a community hub

21:13

to interact with your members too. They

21:15

can access your community from their mobile phone,

21:17

so your membership is right there in their

21:19

pocket. With a UScreen account, you

21:21

get video hosting and out-of-the-box website, full

21:24

payment and subscription management, and plenty of

21:26

third-party integrations too. And UScreen

21:28

makes it easy to get set up.

21:31

You get access to powerful website themes

21:33

that are fully brandable with no coding

21:35

skills required. UScreen will even provide a

21:37

dedicated success manager for you. Just about

21:40

anyone that wants to make money from

21:42

their content can do it with UScreen.

21:44

It's perfect for coaches, authors, influencers, and

21:47

entrepreneurs in just about any niche. Right

21:49

now, UScreen is used by creators in

21:51

fitness, education, news, kids entertainment, and more.

21:54

That includes Yoga with Adrian and CreatorNow

21:56

just to name a couple. UScreen is

21:58

the platform for building a video a membership

22:00

site that is great for generating a

22:02

sustainable income for professional creators. If you

22:04

create video content for your audience, I

22:06

highly recommend checking it out. If you're

22:08

interested in learning more

22:11

about UScreen, visit uscreen.link.com/J.

22:14

That's U-S-C-R-E-E-N dot

22:16

link slash J and let them know that

22:18

I sent you. Welcome

22:21

back to my conversation with Mariah Khaas. Over the

22:23

last few years, I've noticed that course prices seem

22:25

to be decreasing across the board. Courses that used

22:27

to be $300 or more

22:29

seem to be coming down in price. Since Mariah

22:32

works so closely with course creators, I asked

22:34

her if she's been seeing the same. I

22:37

think you might be looking at

22:39

what you might be noticing isn't

22:41

necessarily that what used to be

22:44

considered a premium course has been lowered in

22:46

price, but I think what you might be

22:48

seeing is the rise in low ticket

22:51

offers used as lead generation. So

22:53

they're actually like two different categories.

22:56

When I say like low

22:58

ticket to me and in our business, we

23:00

call it low ticket lead gen offers, $20

23:03

to $200, it's actually like a loss leader. Part

23:07

of the reason for that is the increase

23:10

in ad costs over the last few

23:12

years. Someone might still have

23:14

like, oh, like you said, there's $300 to $500 used to be

23:16

what you think of

23:18

as a course price. There are still

23:20

those $300 to $500 courses, but what you're seeing is

23:23

that on the front end of these

23:26

people's funnels or of these people's

23:28

marketing strategies, they've

23:31

added a $20 or $30 or

23:33

$100 front end offer that people

23:35

come into first and then you don't

23:38

see the $500 offer until you're in the funnel,

23:40

you're seeing an upsell, you're seeing

23:43

a promotion for that on the back end.

23:46

Part of that shift has been, there has been

23:49

an explosion in the popularity of these low ticket

23:52

loss leader lead generation offers that

23:54

their core purpose is to essentially

23:56

like break even on ad spend

23:59

or to attract, you know, someone who

24:01

pays even just $20 for

24:03

your mini course before they buy the regular

24:05

course, it's going to be more qualified, more

24:07

warmed up, ready to go, and people seeing

24:09

that change in buyer behavior. So I wonder

24:11

if what you're seeing is definitely there, but

24:13

I don't know that it's like, Oh, what

24:15

used to be a $300 course has now

24:18

been like, priced

24:20

down to a $50 course, I think that

24:22

that person probably said, Oh, I need to add

24:24

a $50 front

24:27

end to my offer suite and

24:29

to my ecosystem of, you know,

24:31

products, because they're that's going to lead to my

24:33

$300 course and then my $3,000 coaching program. That's

24:35

what I think you might

24:38

be seeing because there has been an explosion of

24:40

those and we use those very successfully, they do

24:43

work to have someone come in and buy

24:45

a $20 workshop. And

24:47

then like for us seamlessly upgrade into

24:49

a $20,000 offer. So it definitely works.

24:51

And I wonder if you're seeing more

24:53

and more of those. Super

24:55

possible. A lot of the circles that I kind

24:57

of swim in, I don't, I'm not very

25:00

close to a lot of creators who have figured

25:02

the ads thing out yet. They're not even thinking

25:04

in terms of like the ROI on ad spend

25:06

and the cost of this course, they're like, I'm

25:08

launching my first course. Where

25:10

do I price it? They seem to just be landing,

25:13

just looking around like, where are you pricing it? And

25:15

like, I guess it's like $150 to $200. Like,

25:19

I'm just seeing a lot more of those

25:21

as like a first product. It

25:23

could be. I mean, that's where I started. I

25:26

definitely started in that in that price range.

25:28

I was like, Oh, $100 is the most

25:30

I can charge. So I think that's definitely

25:33

true for like creators who are just getting

25:35

started with like pricing and mindset. They're like,

25:37

Oh, charging money is so hard. So I

25:39

totally understand starting at $100. And then, you

25:41

know, a few years later, that same course

25:44

that you launched for $100 now, $1,000 with

25:46

with upgrades and evolution of it. I think

25:50

that could be totally true. I also kind of

25:52

get the feeling that for creators, there's more

25:54

of a volume

25:57

that they have, like they have an audience. right

26:00

primarily and they have volume in that

26:02

audience of subscribers or listeners or something

26:04

like that. Whereas I might be working

26:06

with a course creator or an expert

26:09

or a coach who has a smaller

26:12

audience that they're starting with and so

26:14

pricing is very crucial if you don't

26:16

have a huge you know 10,000 followers

26:18

on YouTube. Yeah, it's so

26:20

interesting because I would agree with that also.

26:22

That's like the model they see and they

26:24

assume is what needs to work. But

26:27

none of this stuff is as new as a lot

26:29

of creators getting started. I think that it is you

26:31

know, like you're coming from a very mathematical

26:35

standpoint where like the you can you can

26:37

just do the math and see like

26:39

if we have this type of cost of acquisition, this is

26:41

where the price needs to be. And that makes a lot

26:43

of sense. A lot of people getting started like, I have

26:46

people paying attention to me, I should

26:48

make some money from that, like still figuring out how

26:51

to do that. But like a lot of the

26:53

stuff has been figured out. It was just before

26:55

we had this term creators. And we're talking about

26:58

these things. So well, and also they probably like,

27:00

again, I having been the person who did start with,

27:02

you know, a $50 offer, $100 offer, and then very

27:04

slowly raise

27:07

my prices over years and years, there is

27:09

this belief that it is easier is going

27:12

to like, if you're just starting out with

27:14

selling and marketing, you're like, I don't want

27:16

to have to do that. I don't like

27:18

selling and marketing, I want to be as

27:21

like, hands off as possible. And so there's

27:23

a belief, which turns out is not true.

27:25

But there's a belief that it will be

27:28

easier to sell that their product at $100 than it

27:30

would be to sell it at $500. And so they think it's going to

27:34

be more work or more convincing or more

27:36

difficult that they would get a lot less

27:38

people at $500 than at

27:41

$100. And it turns out, you

27:43

know, from, from, you know, however

27:46

many years of personal experience, it's not

27:49

harder to sell something for $10,000 than it is

27:51

to sell something for $500. It's actually

27:56

not harder. It's just different.

27:58

And there's definitely been times and

28:00

seasons in my business and life where it was,

28:03

gosh, a million times easier to sell

28:05

something at a higher price point that

28:08

includes more support and more value and

28:11

what people are really looking for, versus

28:13

trying to convince someone to spend $100 on

28:15

something that they may not need. If

28:19

they see something for $10,000, that's exactly

28:21

what they want, then that's what it is. For

28:24

people listening to this who are hearing

28:26

you walk through this and throw out

28:28

some of these numbers like $10,000 high

28:30

ticket offer and they're thinking themselves, gosh,

28:32

I want that. Are

28:35

there anybody for whom a high ticket offer

28:37

is a bad option? When should I be

28:39

thinking to myself, I don't think high ticket

28:41

offers work for me in my business. Yeah,

28:44

I think that if you hate

28:46

talking to people, you won't, so

28:48

the high ticket offers, there's

28:51

different ways you could design yours,

28:53

right? High ticket offers usually include

28:56

course content and curriculum combined with

28:58

coaching, feedback, personalized support. Maybe your

29:00

offer includes a one-on-one call, maybe

29:03

a thousand, definitely doesn't have to.

29:05

And I even have clients whose

29:07

high ticket offers include a done-for-you

29:10

element, like a done-for-you tech setup

29:12

or a done-for-you video, copywriting

29:15

or done-for-you website or something like that. There's

29:17

all these different elements that you can mix

29:19

and match to build out your ideal high

29:21

ticket offer, but high

29:23

ticket does mean higher support

29:26

and that can either mean calls,

29:28

group, voice messaging,

29:30

done-for-you, it can mean a lot

29:32

of different things, but if you're

29:34

like, I want the most hands-off,

29:36

I cannot talk to people, I

29:38

will not be able to support

29:40

anyone individually, if that's where

29:43

you're at, which again, there was like a

29:45

time in my life, especially when I was

29:47

doing all the camper stuff, where I was

29:49

literally like traveling full-time, there was no way

29:51

for me to, like Zoom

29:53

calls weren't a thing, that wouldn't have

29:55

been possible to do that from the

29:58

road and like campgrounds and stuff. So

30:00

that was not possible. So if you're in

30:02

a situation where you really can't or aren't

30:04

interested in, I think personality-wise, there are some

30:06

people who really shouldn't do a high-ticket offer

30:08

because they don't want to support people in

30:10

that way. They want to create and then

30:12

they want to put it out there and

30:14

then they don't want to hear people's feedback

30:17

about it, which is cool. That's fine. I

30:20

totally get that. I have definitely had seasons in

30:22

my business like that as well. But in terms

30:24

of niche and stuff, I

30:26

have yet – I mean, we

30:28

have people teaching high-ticket – with

30:30

$10,000 high-ticket offers teaching belly dancing

30:33

and BDSM and relationships and language

30:35

and how to draw hieroglyphics, all

30:37

sorts of really cool –

30:40

yeah, like really cool niche items that

30:42

are not just how to make more

30:44

money. As I'm listening to this,

30:46

I'm putting myself in the shoes of a lot

30:48

of my audience, people that are in my membership,

30:50

and even myself if I'm honest. Part

30:53

of the hang-up I feel when I think about, okay, what does a

30:55

$10,000 per year offer look

30:59

like in my world? And part of the head

31:02

trash that I have in thinking about that is

31:04

that I sell other products and services

31:06

that are far less than that and

31:08

give a lot of myself. So it's

31:10

hard to think of how

31:13

do I 10X this other

31:15

experience in terms of price

31:17

if I'm giving so much of myself

31:20

over here? Do you see

31:22

that with your clients where people are

31:24

– maybe it's underpricing, maybe I don't

31:27

know, but that's the hang-up I feel. So

31:29

can you help me throw that head

31:31

trash into the actual trash? Yeah, and you know,

31:33

it's not even head trash. It's literally just logistics

31:35

that we have to

31:38

figure out. I've helped hundreds and hundreds

31:40

of people make this transition, whereas essentially

31:43

90% of people who come to me,

31:46

they're already delivering high-ticket value and they're

31:48

delivering at a high-ticket level, but they

31:50

are so grossly

31:52

undercharging. They are

31:54

severely undercharging and they are charging low-ticket

31:57

prices for high-ticket delivery. And they do

31:59

that. just don't know, you know, just like

32:01

how we all have done that, right? Like

32:03

we've all launched courses and charged $200 and

32:05

included like one-on-one calls and group coaching and

32:07

all this stuff. We just didn't know any

32:09

better. I've done that, right? So as we

32:11

grow, you just have to adjust and you

32:13

have to make like, we do this all

32:15

the time and their clients were able to

32:17

make these logistical plans of like, it's not

32:19

like you've did anything wrong. However, going forward,

32:21

your, you know,

32:24

$500 course is not going to include

32:26

personal feedback and coaching with you anymore.

32:28

That's not something like the $500

32:30

course. It should include content and curriculum and

32:32

it should include a group, but it's not

32:35

going to include access to J. It's not

32:37

going to include coaching calls. It's not going

32:39

to include personalized feedback, blah,

32:41

blah, blah, right? And so you actually have to adjust those

32:44

inclusions so that you say, okay, that's now

32:46

a separate offer. Here's what's included in

32:48

that going forward. You make a plan. We

32:50

call it sunsetting. You make a

32:52

sunset plan for like, okay, how are we going to

32:55

phase out that part of things? Like this happens all

32:57

the time because a lot of times people come to

32:59

us and they had made the

33:01

mistake of offering lifetime access

33:03

to their digital products, which is not something

33:05

we recommend and not something we do. Mostly

33:08

because I care about people getting results and

33:10

we know for a fact that if

33:12

you give them lifetime access, they'll procrastinate

33:15

as long as possible and they'll never

33:17

do it. So we find that giving

33:19

people a set access, like 12 months

33:21

or something, really just keeps them motivated.

33:23

It's enough time to, you know, take

33:26

your time, but not enough time to completely

33:28

forget about it and not get any value,

33:30

which is tempting when you have lifetime access.

33:32

So really, it's more of a logistical thing

33:34

of like, we need to

33:37

shift what you're charging for

33:39

that amount of energy. And we're probably going to

33:41

like separate some of the elements that you've been

33:43

offering in all of your things so

33:45

that now it's like, oh, the only way to

33:47

get this type of support is here now. And

33:49

this looks different. This is so fun. I feel

33:51

like I get to play like the faux

33:54

objector and you just get to overcome

33:56

my objections as an interview. It's

34:00

like what you do all day. Right. Here's

34:02

another thought that I have. So if I'm listening

34:04

to this, I'm like, okay, high ticket offer, that

34:07

sounds fun. That sounds like me. I could see

34:09

myself doing a group coaching program. When I start

34:11

thinking about a high ticket group coaching program, the

34:13

fear creeps in of, can I get enough people

34:15

for there to be a group? Like how many

34:18

people need to be in a group to feel

34:20

like this product launch was a

34:22

success? Because group coaching makes you think

34:24

like multiple people. Do

34:26

I have multiple people in my audience now that are

34:29

warmed up to the point where they would pay $10,000

34:31

per year? And would

34:33

they all do it at the same point in time?

34:35

How would you address somebody who's feeling that fear right

34:37

now? Yeah, I mean we

34:39

all start with a small group at

34:41

first. My first, first ever, so like

34:43

I told you, my pricing shifted from

34:47

one week to the next. Like December 2017, my

34:50

highest price was like $1,200, January

34:54

1st, we didn't sell those things anymore

34:56

and it was now $10,000 to work with us. That

35:00

first, first group, five

35:02

people. And that wasn't, now

35:04

this is coming from a person who had had

35:06

$400,000 launches before of their, you

35:10

know, self-study courses. So was getting five

35:12

people into my $10,000 offer, was

35:15

that the biggest launch I'd ever had?

35:17

No, definitely not. But it

35:20

was enough validation and enough of that

35:22

little seed for me to be like,

35:24

you know, I could have said, I

35:26

only made $50,000 from the high ticket launch. I

35:30

only got five people. You know, I should go back

35:32

to launching low ticket courses because I made hundreds and

35:34

hundreds of thousand dollars every time I launched those. But

35:38

that was like that's the starting

35:40

point. That's the little seed, those first

35:42

five people. I'm gonna give those five

35:44

people the best experience of their life.

35:47

And those five people are just

35:49

the beginning because then I'm gonna have the program

35:51

on Evergreen where who's to say that next month,

35:53

I don't get another five people. And then the

35:55

month after that, I get another five. And then

35:57

the month after that, I got 10. The

35:59

month after that, I got 12. So you begin

36:01

to have rolling enrollment and it all sort

36:03

of starts to stack up. So, you

36:06

know, financially speaking, I don't know where the

36:08

line is for you. And I tell every

36:10

one of my clients to be like, pick

36:13

a threshold that makes it worthwhile for you

36:15

to say this is enough validation that I

36:17

can keep going with this. I can keep

36:19

tweaking this. I can keep, I can put

36:21

it on evergreen enrollment so I

36:23

can keep inviting people to join. Maybe it

36:26

wasn't the best time for everyone to join.

36:28

But if you can get those three to

36:30

five people a month later, you could get another three to

36:32

five and then another three to five. And then all of

36:34

a sudden you've got 30, 40, 50 people in your

36:37

group and it takes off

36:39

from there. So I wonder, like,

36:41

I think for me, it was really scary

36:43

to go from $1,200 course

36:46

to $10,000 offer with no like validation

36:48

of that. But those, those first five

36:50

people, I was like, this is, this

36:52

is the seed. This is the beginning.

36:55

What were the bounds you put on that

36:57

$10,000 offer? Was that a time bound

36:59

program? Was that a year? Did it

37:01

recur? How big was the

37:03

delivery? So actually, that very first time,

37:05

it was just a nine, it was like a

37:07

nine or 10 week program. It was like the

37:10

first round of it. And I thought I thought

37:12

in my head, this is going to be a

37:14

nine or 10 week program. And then by

37:17

the end of the 10 weeks, I

37:19

was like, we have so much more to do. So

37:21

then I extended it to 12 weeks. And

37:23

then at the end of the 12 weeks, I was like, we

37:25

could just keep going because I had helped

37:27

everyone launch their course in those 10 weeks. And

37:30

then I was like, Oh, my gosh, there's so much

37:32

else I want to show them. There's so many like

37:34

optimizations I want to do with them. There's so many things.

37:37

So that was when I realized this could be a 12

37:39

month program. Now, I don't think there's anything

37:41

I think, I think that

37:43

anything between eight weeks to 12 months

37:46

is great. And there's no set rule

37:48

about that. We ended up having a

37:50

12 month offer, but I've also

37:52

done it with six months containers, done it

37:54

with three months containers, done it with eight

37:56

week containers. It's, you

37:58

know, high ticket doesn't have to be to do with a timeframe.

38:01

It has to do with the

38:03

outcome and the result that people get and the

38:05

support that you're offering them. So even though I

38:07

ended up turning that into a 12 month offer,

38:09

the initial version of it was like 10 weeks.

38:12

When we come back, Mariah and I talk about

38:14

how to construct your own high ticket hybrid course.

38:16

So stick around. You

38:19

may or may not know that I

38:21

have a bit of a domain buying

38:23

obsession, whether it's a new project idea

38:26

or domains related to my existing projects,

38:28

I'm buying them all. I have creatorscience.tv,

38:30

creatorscience.fm. So let me tell you about

38:32

my newest purchase, it's JClaus.bio. Connection

38:34

with your audience is everything. We make all

38:37

this content and then we want to direct

38:39

our audience somewhere. Well, a great new option

38:41

is with a .bio domain. Instead of some

38:43

long link tree or third party URL that

38:46

people can't understand and it's hard to say

38:48

out loud, using your .bio domain for your

38:50

Lincoln bio lets you manage all your links

38:52

in one spot with a custom domain that

38:55

tells people exactly who you are. It's

38:57

short, it's memorable, it's professional. Your .bio domain

38:59

name is your way to share yourself with

39:01

the world. And right now, you can get

39:04

your own .bio domain name for less than

39:06

$3 at Porkbun.

39:08

Yes, it's a

39:10

real website and

39:13

a real registrar.

39:15

Just visit porkbun.com/creator.

39:17

That's porkbun.com/creator. Let

39:19

me tell you about one of my favorite

39:21

podcasts that I've been listening to for years. It's

39:24

called The $100 MBA Show. And wherever you

39:26

are on your business journey, The $100 MBA Show

39:29

has lessons that can help you take the next step

39:31

forward. The $100 MBA Show is a best

39:34

of Apple Podcasts winner, literally one of

39:36

the top Apple Podcasts of all time.

39:38

And it's hosted by my friend and

39:41

former guest, Omar Zenholm. Omar is a

39:43

business school dropout turned successful entrepreneur and

39:45

he shares real world lessons on starting,

39:47

growing, and scaling your business. You

39:50

may even know his software product, Webinar

39:52

Ninja. What I love about The $100

39:54

MBA Show is that these are well-produced

39:57

bite sized episodes on everything from creating

39:59

a product, connecting. with your market, sales,

40:01

building a team, and more. This show

40:03

is legit. It does over 2 million

40:06

downloads every month. Whether you're

40:08

a small-time solopreneur or scaling your startup

40:10

to investor level, there's valuable real-world advice

40:13

for you in the $100 MBAs

40:15

archive of thousands of episodes with new episodes

40:17

three days a week. If that sounds interesting

40:20

to you and it should, just search for

40:22

$100 MBA show wherever you get

40:25

your podcasts. Hey,

40:27

welcome back. For creators who are creating a

40:29

cohort-based course or a group coaching program, it

40:32

can be hard to know how long to

40:34

make the experience last. Four weeks, 12 weeks,

40:36

somewhere in the middle? I didn't know. So

40:38

I asked Mariah to walk us through the decision. Number

40:41

one is you have to design your

40:43

container to make sense

40:45

for your... Please don't

40:47

create a 12-month offer if realistically everyone

40:49

could achieve the result in three months.

40:52

That's just not necessary. It doesn't help anyone. So

40:55

make sure that depending on what

40:57

you actually are designing your offer

40:59

to deliver and what the outcome

41:01

will be, choose a timeframe that's

41:03

realistic instead of just giving them

41:05

this extended time to wallow and

41:07

languish, essentially. Number

41:10

two is that's why Evergreen is so

41:12

great, actually. Because on Evergreen, new people

41:14

are... Let's say you get a new

41:16

client joining this group every week. Every

41:19

single week, there's a new chance

41:21

for someone who fell behind and felt

41:23

like they lost track and they lost...

41:28

They're off the calendar and they lost track and they don't

41:30

know where they are. There's now

41:32

a chance for them to be like, that's my new buddy. We're

41:35

starting from square one together. I'm

41:37

not behind. I'm now the expert because this

41:39

person just joined and they know nothing. And

41:41

I got stuck at week two. So I am

41:43

going to get started with them again. So

41:46

every single week or every day or every

41:48

month, there's a chance for anyone who fell

41:50

behind or got stuck for them to restart

41:53

with these new people who are coming in,

41:55

which is one of the reasons I really

41:57

like the delivery of Evergreen. It's like so

41:59

motivating. because they see new fresh people

42:02

come in who are excited. They're like,

42:04

okay, I can jump on to their

42:06

energy and like get started again. They're

42:08

never really the last one. You know,

42:10

they're never really that far behind. And

42:13

then I do think that this is

42:15

one of the most challenging parts of

42:17

coaching and having these more connected, deeper

42:19

relationships with clients is finding out for

42:21

you personally where that line is between

42:24

like proactively trying to pull people back

42:26

into the program or

42:28

re-engage people versus focusing

42:30

on the people who are swimming towards you,

42:32

focusing on the people who are showing up,

42:34

focusing your energy on those who are, you

42:37

know, self-motivated and it's especially challenging for me

42:39

personally because I am so

42:41

self-motivated. I would never, ever

42:44

expect someone to like reach

42:46

out to me and ask me where I've been.

42:48

I would never expect someone to like hold me.

42:50

I hate the word accountability. I think it's so,

42:53

oh, I just hate that word. I

42:55

don't understand it. I am just a

42:57

personally very self-motivated person. I would never

43:00

need that. So it's very challenging for

43:02

me to understand that there are other

43:04

people with different patterns

43:06

than me. And I don't understand that.

43:08

I don't understand why if you wanted

43:10

the result, you wouldn't just show up

43:12

for yourself. So I kind of

43:14

have a personal chip on my shoulder about that.

43:16

I think there's just a line there where you

43:18

have to decide as the coach, how much are

43:21

you going to pursue like

43:24

keeping people on track and engaging them and

43:26

trying to like force people to get stuff

43:28

done versus just being like, look, you either

43:30

want it or you don't. I'm not your mom.

43:33

Like, I don't know. Now

43:35

I'm going to put on the hat of somebody listening to this who has

43:37

an existing offer that they're

43:40

doing periodically as like a live

43:42

launch. So if I have

43:45

some call it two

43:47

months experience and part of that experience

43:49

has guided curriculum that I go through,

43:51

I'm thinking, okay, I want to make

43:54

this evergreen. Am I literally starting from

43:56

week one, quote

43:58

unquote, every time? every time somebody

44:00

joins, like do I need to schedule

44:03

the week one curriculum session? Every

44:05

time somebody joins, are you recommending

44:08

phased, like, okay, and now this

44:10

group is starting over. How does

44:12

that actually work in an evergreen

44:14

situation with curriculum? Everyone

44:17

is just going at their own pace and everything

44:19

should be pre-recorded. So like when people, let's say,

44:21

because we have this too, the first eight weeks

44:23

of our program, like even though it's a 12

44:25

month program, people can join, we have like two

44:28

different time frames, but people can join for 12

44:30

months, but the first eight weeks are like a

44:32

very structured, like here's exactly what to do in

44:34

your first eight weeks. And then after that, it's

44:36

a little more choose your own adventure once you

44:39

have the foundation sound. But those

44:41

first eight weeks, people join and

44:43

it's all like pre-recorded content. So

44:45

they start going through the pre-recorded content.

44:48

They start getting the automated check-in emails. So

44:50

there's a sequence of emails designed around those

44:52

first eight weeks and they start getting those

44:54

when they enroll and then they're, you know,

44:56

they are told exactly where to show up

44:58

for their first call. But like,

45:00

uh, we're not doing anything manually. It's

45:02

not like, Oh, we're not delivering any

45:05

content live week to week. We're not,

45:07

I mean, you might do that during

45:09

your pilot session, your first ever round,

45:12

but after that, everything is pre-recorded. Everything

45:14

is in the portal. Everything

45:16

is automated. All your emails are automated

45:19

and people can get them on a

45:21

one-to-one basis. And they can hop into

45:23

whatever, like there's a weekly call or

45:25

biweekly call. They can hop onto

45:28

the next call from wherever they're starting from.

45:30

And for us, we like it to be

45:32

self-paced. Like I don't like to drip content.

45:34

I like to have, some people will work

45:36

through the eight weeks and two weeks. Some

45:38

people can work through the eight weeks in

45:40

two months, you know, or I guess that

45:42

is two months, but whatever, you know,

45:44

people can work through it however they want. I'm not going

45:46

to be a sickler about that. People are adults. They

45:49

can do whatever they want, but they can then

45:51

start coming to the call. And Asking questions and

45:53

getting support and all that kind of stuff. So

45:55

I Think there's a lot, this is why the

45:57

delivery of Evergreen is the whole side of the

45:59

conversation. Than I ever had for Evergreen Marketing

46:02

and Sales. But they don't really talk

46:04

about the back end and it's so

46:06

important that like you've automated that piece

46:08

of it so people can seamlessly like

46:10

join into a group that already exists

46:12

and once you have that going there's

46:14

nothing weird about you know at are

46:16

joining all the time so it's just

46:18

like oh cool welcome your on week

46:20

one like have fine that's where I

46:22

used to be bubble boss. I've. Heard

46:24

you talk about early decision options

46:26

as something to think about when

46:29

people are joining. On Evergreen

46:31

and that is a challenge that a lot

46:33

of people think of when they think about

46:35

going to Evergreen is how to get people

46:37

to make a decision now at all without

46:39

creating some sort of like. Real

46:41

urgency. So whether it's early this is

46:43

nonsense or whether it's some other method.

46:45

I would love to hear your favorite

46:47

ways to get people to make a

46:50

decision to opt in when there's no.

46:53

Actual. Like deadline

46:55

urgency. Yeah. So we

46:57

actually do have an evergreen

46:59

decision. Like. Same

47:03

case people. one seats.

47:05

In into the fun all they'll have

47:07

like seven days to make a decision

47:09

to join or not if they don't

47:11

decide to join during that time to

47:13

the few things I can happen and

47:15

soothing and this is this is one

47:17

of the main things of understanding. Evergreen

47:19

doesn't just mean he slap yourself page

47:21

up on your website and you're just

47:23

like it's open twenty four seven for

47:25

everyone no matter what. Like for us,

47:27

there's a process especially for aren't for

47:29

hi to get programs. There's an application

47:31

where we genuinely review every person's application

47:33

so people apply and. Then if they're accepted,

47:35

it's like here you have seven days make

47:38

a decision to and Rockstars how to get

47:40

all your questions answered before you enroll says

47:42

all the information about the programs might have

47:44

know how we can help you and blah

47:46

blah. So the whole thing here is that

47:49

like choosing the evergreen incentives like the evergreen

47:51

and Roman incentives that you're going to use

47:53

these to be aligned with your brand's it.

47:55

It's different for everyone so I'll give you

47:58

a couple of examples. One could be. Unique

48:00

fearing beneath the could be. Been with

48:02

Clinton, but hey, if you join in the next

48:05

seven days to get access the extra bonus content

48:07

after that, you can still join later. but you're

48:09

not going. To get that bonus contests for my

48:11

opponent. Long one call thought you know what would

48:14

you join during that enrollment when now than he

48:16

got of on a phone? A long haul if

48:18

not cool. You can still join in the future,

48:20

but you're not gonna get that one on one.

48:22

Paul One of the things we've we've tried his

48:25

opponent that workflow is like extending a time frame.

48:27

especially not they have a three month playground. Sometimes

48:29

people are like oh i really want to join

48:31

but right now isn't the best time for me.

48:34

I'm going because the next week and join next

48:36

month have a boss. So in that case giving

48:38

someone the bonus of one. Additional month of

48:40

as fast as a guest is a

48:42

really nice bonus and that's very effective

48:45

because it. Overcomes. The

48:47

timing issue that someone might have as well

48:49

a lot of people ask oh my, as

48:51

you do like pricing is that you know,

48:53

do you ever do a discount if you

48:55

join the first seven days and after that

48:57

for high ticket know for low to get

48:59

courses. Yes, we doubling have done that type

49:02

of thing where it's like oh, you have

49:04

seven days to get the course for five

49:06

hundred dollars minutes, Six hundred dollars After that.

49:08

We don't see that for high ticket because

49:10

for high to get a pricing is already

49:12

like a big component of the decisions. I

49:14

don't really want to introduce more variables. Around

49:17

the place being an object or an

49:19

objection. so I just kind of last

49:21

be like this is the price but

49:23

maybe there's a bonus addict. Fires are

49:25

some special access or something like that

49:27

and it's really about finding the incentive

49:30

that's gonna work best for your audience

49:32

is really going to be unique to

49:34

each business and brands. You.

49:36

You mention that. You. Don't. Make.

49:39

A ton of contests and that and back

49:41

you don't love making like bunch of free

49:43

content should send my where you're like hey

49:45

I'm just gonna be a public loud mouth

49:47

on Twitter the way I am? How do

49:50

you get people into your world so consistently

49:52

to make this such a. Profitable.

49:54

Successful program. When. we switched

49:56

to high ticket i kind

49:59

of stuff doing content and I

50:01

did I it was kind of like a whole

50:03

shift of like look I

50:05

don't know if all these like

50:07

freebies and free blog posts are

50:09

going to attract the same

50:11

client who is buying like our $500 courses

50:14

before that we now

50:16

want to we're attracting ten or

50:18

twenty thousand dollar clients how does

50:20

our content marketing and our marketing

50:22

need to shift in order to

50:24

shift with that and so

50:27

it no longer became volume like

50:29

volume is not our was not our thing anymore

50:31

I literally eliminated the need for

50:33

like high volume list building and audience growth

50:36

I was like I don't really want to

50:38

do that and so by going high ticket

50:40

it's like okay now you only need small

50:42

small amount of clients for it to be

50:44

very successful and to meet your goals and

50:47

you're serving them a much higher level so

50:50

I kind of eliminated the need for volume

50:52

which eliminated the need for a lot of

50:54

these like common content marketing sort of strategies

50:56

and so what what we shifted to well

50:59

we started running ads we finally like

51:02

figured out ads and this was in like

51:06

2019 we started running ads successfully after years

51:08

and years of failing miserably at running ads

51:10

you kind of hit a moment to I

51:12

not everyone but for me I hit a

51:14

moment where I was like I

51:16

have arc I have hundreds

51:18

of articles and videos and podcasts like

51:21

an archive a body of work that

51:24

like I don't need to create anymore there's no

51:26

need for me to make say more I just

51:29

need more eyeballs to find this and

51:31

that's where ads came in for us

51:33

that was one of the ways and

51:36

then we started doing in 2020 literally

51:38

just because of covid we had to

51:40

pit we used to do in-person events

51:44

and they're really like 20 people you

51:46

know small in-person events and in

51:48

2020 we were forced to cancel all

51:50

the events and we had to bring

51:52

them online and in that

51:55

process we like accidentally

51:57

discovered this huge things

52:00

for our business, which became like this

52:02

huge lead generator for us of

52:04

selling $20 to

52:07

$40 tickets to these virtual events. We would get

52:09

thousands of people to show up and sign up

52:11

and buy tickets. And that

52:13

became a huge lead generator for us. And

52:15

then we took the recordings of those events

52:17

and we put them on Evergreen. And

52:20

then it became, so what we talked about

52:22

at the beginning was like, oh, maybe you're

52:24

seeing people with their low ticket lead generator

52:26

offers. That's what we did. We

52:28

did these big virtual events with like $40 for a

52:31

ticket. Hundreds or

52:33

thousands of people would sign up. Huge

52:35

for lead gen for us. And then turn

52:37

around and put those recordings out

52:39

on Evergreen. We could keep buying them for $30 or

52:41

$40 for the recordings. And

52:44

that would bring in people all the time as

52:46

well. So I don't do

52:48

like free. A

52:50

little bit this year, we dabbled for like two months.

52:53

We like dabbled in free content again. And then immediately

52:55

I was like, nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm

52:57

not doing this. We

52:59

basically do these very low ticket, but

53:03

very excessively priced virtual

53:05

events or Evergreen offers that are,

53:07

like I said, even $10 or $20 to me is

53:11

better than free. I just can't

53:14

keep up with doing anything consistently. I

53:23

love a good sales conversation. And in this episode,

53:26

Mariah really delivers. If you want to learn more

53:28

about Mariah and the high ticket hybrid, you can

53:30

visit her website at fearlessceo.com. A link to that

53:32

is in the show notes. Thanks to Mariah for

53:34

being on the show. Thank you to Connor Connaboy

53:36

for editing this episode and Brian Steele for creating

53:39

our music. Thank you to Emily Klaus for our

53:41

artwork and Mason Todd Hunter for mixing the audio.

53:43

If you love this episode, you can tweet at

53:45

J Klaus and let me know. If you really

53:47

want to say thank you, please leave a review

53:50

on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thanks for listening. I'll

53:52

talk to you next week. you