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1:00

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host

1:02

Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And

1:04

the story I have for you today is one of

1:06

the most infamous out of South Korea in the 90s.

1:09

It's about five little boys who wanted to

1:12

spend their day off from school playing in

1:14

the woods like they had so many times

1:16

before. Only this time, they

1:18

wouldn't come home. This

1:21

is the story of

1:23

Uchilwon, Joho Yeon, Kim

1:25

Young-Yoo, Park Chan-in, and

1:28

Kim Jong-shik. AKA

1:31

the Frog Boys of South Korea.

1:50

Thanks for watching.

2:07

It's just after 1pm when the phone rings

2:09

at the home of Wu Zhongwu. He

2:12

answers and he's surprised to hear someone

2:14

from his son's Taekwondo Academy on the

2:16

other end. This person tells

2:18

him that 14-year-old Chulwon didn't show up

2:21

to his lesson today, which might have been

2:23

more surprising on any other day, but today,

2:25

March 26, 1991, isn't any other

2:29

day. You see, for the first time in

2:31

30 years, South Korea's

2:33

holding local democratic elections, so

2:36

schools out, people are off work so they

2:38

can vote. I mean, it's a big deal. And

2:42

although Zhongwu isn't all that happy that

2:44

his son skipped practice, he's not exactly

2:46

panicked. Right, the whole

2:48

family's routine is off. Right. And

2:51

he knows his son had gone out to

2:53

play with four other boys. They're all kind

2:55

of described as like the five musketeers. Their

2:58

houses form actually this circle there in the

3:00

village, and they're all super close. And

3:02

listen, disclaimer, I'm going to try my best

3:04

with pronouncing all the names and places in

3:06

this story, but I think we can all

3:08

agree that pronunciations aren't exactly my strong suit.

3:11

That's really hard though. I'm trying really, and

3:14

honestly, it's not just me. Our whole team tries really

3:16

hard to make it like the best it can be.

3:18

So that being said, in this group

3:20

of friends, I mentioned it at the top, you

3:23

have Chulwon and he's the oldest at

3:25

14. Then there's

3:27

Joho Yeon, who is 13, Kim

3:29

Yong-joo, who's 12, Park

3:32

Jong-in, who's 11, and then Kim

3:35

Jong-shik, who's 10. Now

3:37

if you're like me and you didn't already know this,

3:39

the traditional South Korean age calculating system

3:42

can be a bit confusing, but stay with

3:44

me a little bit. The ages

3:46

I read were displayed on a

3:48

handout from the time, but today

3:50

they might be aged differently. What's

3:53

important is that they're all

3:56

young, like pre-teen, teen kind of

3:58

age. All

4:00

that, they're probably all together. Being

4:02

little boys, losing track of time. So,

4:04

Zhongwu goes out searching for them. I

4:06

mean, yeah, find one of them, you

4:08

find all of them. That's what he's

4:11

thinking, yeah. But here's the problem. I

4:13

mean, he's walking all over

4:15

their village, and he's finding none of

4:17

them. Not out playing, not at any

4:19

of the other kids' houses. And one

4:21

by one, the other parents start realizing

4:23

that something's not right. I mean, not

4:25

only are none of the boys home,

4:27

but the other parents confirm that their

4:29

kids never showed up to Taekwondo either.

4:33

So on the same mission now to

4:35

locate their sons, these parents start asking

4:37

around. And before long, they find

4:39

someone who says that he had seen all

4:41

the five boys earlier that way. According

4:44

to an article for CNA Insider, this guy says

4:46

that he had asked them where they were going,

4:48

and the boys said that they were going up

4:50

this nearby mountain to look for salamander eggs. Which

4:53

is honestly instant relief. Like, ah, that's where they

4:55

are, makes sense. Right, they aren't in the neighborhood

4:58

because they're up on this mountain. Yeah, and shame

5:00

on them for skipping class, but they're probably all

5:02

still up there. They're going to come home eventually.

5:05

But as the afternoon turns to

5:07

evening, and it begins to get darker and

5:09

darker, worry begins to creep

5:12

back in. I mean, they're not worried

5:14

that they might have gotten lost, but that they

5:16

might have gotten hurt, either coming or going

5:18

from the mountain. Because they know that there's

5:20

a farm actually at the base of the

5:22

mountain with some pretty aggressive dogs on the

5:24

property. So I think where their mind is

5:26

going is like maybe one of those dogs got out,

5:28

they hurt the boys. So as the

5:30

sun dips below the horizon, the group of

5:32

parents heads up the mountain to look for

5:35

their kids. But there is no

5:37

sign of them anywhere. And this

5:39

is when they really start getting panicked.

5:42

The parents file missing persons reports with the

5:44

local police, but the police aren't nearly

5:46

as worried as they are. According

5:49

to the documentary, In Search of the Frog

5:51

Boys, which was the main source material for

5:53

this episode, the police basically say

5:55

they're probably just late getting home. They stayed

5:57

out too late playing. It's not that. big

6:00

of a deal. But these parents' spidey

6:02

senses are tingling. They know their kids wouldn't

6:04

have just stayed out too late. And even if

6:06

they did, they would have made their

6:08

way home by now. So something must

6:10

have happened. By the next day,

6:13

the boys still aren't back. And

6:15

this finally seems to make police

6:17

take things a little more seriously.

6:20

They begin a search of the mountainous

6:22

terrain with groups of officers, residents, even

6:24

helicopters. They also conduct a search of

6:26

the village itself, focusing on empty houses,

6:28

arcades, you know, spots where kids could

6:31

get snacks or places like that. But

6:34

there's no sign of them anywhere. By

6:37

the third day, the parents are

6:39

beside themselves with worry knowing that

6:41

something must have happened to them.

6:44

And just when they feel completely

6:46

lost, the parents of

6:48

Zhongxik, the 10 year old, get

6:50

a call from someone who says, quote, I

6:53

have the children, they are

6:55

all suffering too are very

6:57

ill. Now the call isn't

6:59

long, they're just instructed to get a lot of

7:01

money and meet this mysterious caller on a specific

7:04

street in the village. And even

7:06

though I'm sure this sends fear coursing through them,

7:08

it also gives them an answer of where their

7:10

boys are and a bit of hope that maybe

7:12

their kids are going to be returned to them.

7:15

So when the time comes, they head to this

7:17

meeting spot money in hand. So do they

7:20

tell police about this? Or are they just

7:22

going rogue? Oh, no, police are there

7:24

to like ready and waiting to confront whoever the

7:26

caller is. But all of them parents

7:28

police everyone, they just keep waiting and

7:30

waiting. It's 20 minutes, 40

7:32

minutes, eventually a whole hour

7:35

passes. And there's just nothing, no sign

7:37

of a mystery man and no sign

7:39

of their kids. So was

7:41

it a hoax? Or did the cops

7:43

being there maybe scare them? Well, in

7:45

the end, they think that it was

7:47

most likely just a hoax. So

7:50

over the next few days, media outlets

7:52

outside of the village get word about

7:54

what's happening. And now that the

7:56

election news has kind of died down, the

7:58

public focus really. to these missing

8:01

boys and their story finally becomes, I

8:03

mean, really national news. They're

8:05

dubbed the Frog Boys for, I think just

8:07

a flashy headline because the news outlets reported

8:10

early on that they had gone out to

8:12

catch frogs, not like looking for salamander eggs,

8:14

like we heard early on. So somehow

8:17

this nickname just stuck. But

8:19

regardless of what they're called, the national attention

8:22

is great. I mean, the parents even

8:24

get to go on this live TV

8:26

program called the Square of Public Opinions

8:28

where they talk about their kids and

8:30

their frustrations with the police response, which

8:33

by the way, at this point, they were still

8:35

frustrated with because despite outwardly seeming

8:37

like police were finally taking the

8:39

disappearances seriously, the parents actually explain on

8:41

the program that it just doesn't seem

8:44

like they actually care. I

8:46

mean, for instance, they show a missing

8:48

poster that the police have created, pointing

8:50

out that the poster says runaway, not

8:52

missing. Which has a

8:54

really different connotation. Exactly, I

8:57

mean, these parents are more than

8:59

frustrated. They're rightfully angry. And

9:01

they know in their guts that their kids didn't

9:03

just run away. So the assertion that they did

9:06

just creates a further rift between the

9:08

parents and the police. So

9:10

much so that on this TV

9:12

appearance, they're like, you know

9:15

what, just contact us with your leads.

9:17

I mean, there was even a phone

9:19

line set up and calls start coming

9:21

in one after another, like while they're

9:23

doing this program. And

9:25

then something wild happens. So

9:27

again, literally while they're still on the air, the

9:30

phone rings and the person on

9:32

the other end says that they

9:35

are 10 year old Jong-Shik.

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Terms apply. The

10:09

voice on the other end sounds like

10:11

a little boy and he's crying for

10:13

his mom and John

10:15

Sheik's mother says it sounds like her

10:18

son but then the call gets cut

10:20

off. The group managing the phones

10:22

tries to call the number back but they can't get

10:24

him back on the line or whatever and then they

10:26

try and track where this call came from. Apparently

10:29

they do but unfortunately they

10:32

find out that it was just another hoax. But

10:36

despite that prank the TV show

10:38

keeps the missing boys in the

10:40

national news and there's national effort

10:42

to find the kids. I mean

10:44

the president of South Korea at the time even

10:46

makes a statement and directs 300,000 police

10:49

officers to search for the boys. I mean

10:52

not even just in their village. Hwang

10:54

Sung-Yoon reports for Korea Joon-ang

10:57

daily that as time goes

10:59

on searches also extend to

11:01

reservoirs, bus stations and terminals

11:04

across the country. But

11:06

even with all this effort weeks pass

11:08

with no sign of the boys and

11:11

it makes the parents question if

11:13

the search teams are even really

11:15

searching. They get the feeling

11:17

that the police are just out

11:20

there because they have to be not because

11:22

they actually care about finding the boys. And

11:25

really without any physical leads rumors begin

11:27

spreading about what could have happened to

11:29

them. The biggest of which

11:31

is that their disappearance has something to

11:34

do with a nearby military base and

11:36

a shooting range up the mountain. I

11:39

think the rumor is that maybe somehow these

11:41

kids had wandered to like the wrong place,

11:44

gotten shot and then it was

11:46

all covered up by the military

11:48

or someone within the military. And

11:51

at first when this rumor starts like

11:53

the parents are skeptical because the shooting

11:56

range is well marked. Everyone knows about

11:58

it. that their kids

12:00

would have just wandered in accidentally and gotten in

12:02

the line of fire, you know what I mean?

12:05

Yeah, it seems like it's something that wasn't a

12:07

secret or anything. Exactly, I mean, the kids knew

12:09

about it, but this rumor actually seems to hold

12:11

water when they learned that someone had heard a

12:13

gunshot on the day that the boys went missing.

12:16

Apparently, according to the doc, one

12:19

of 14-year-old Chulwon's friends heard a

12:21

shot, what sounded like a scream,

12:24

and then just nothing. And this happened

12:26

near the base, I assume? Well, that's

12:28

the impression I get, or at

12:30

least somewhere near the mountain, but nothing

12:32

in the source material explicitly states that.

12:35

But with all these rumors flying around about the

12:37

military potentially being involved, you'd think that

12:39

police would, I don't know, look

12:42

into this idea. I mean, especially

12:44

with Chulwon's friend's story about hearing

12:46

the gunshot and the scream, but the police

12:48

don't. And from the way it's presented

12:50

in the documentary, I don't know if they

12:53

even necessarily have authority to, though. Like

12:55

maybe only the military can investigate

12:58

the military? Yeah, that's how it seems. Either

13:00

that or they don't think that there's enough

13:02

stock in the military rumor to warrant an

13:04

investigation. I can't totally tell. And

13:07

just for some context, South

13:09

Korea had been fluctuating between a democracy

13:11

and a dictatorship for decades before this,

13:13

with the military having a lot of

13:15

control and power. I'm not

13:17

gonna get into all the details here because we'd be

13:20

here for hours. But even though the

13:22

current president during all of this in

13:24

91 had been elected democratically, the country

13:26

as a whole was still very much

13:28

settling into the idea of democracy. So

13:31

considering the power that the military had in

13:33

the past and really still does, I mean,

13:36

it makes it difficult, I think, I

13:38

think it would make it difficult for the local police to

13:40

investigate that. It doesn't make sense

13:42

to me completely, but I mean, there's only

13:45

one shot and one scream. That

13:48

doesn't take out five boys. Five kids, yeah. I

13:50

think the theory is that maybe there was an

13:52

accident and then one of the boys was killed

13:54

and then they killed the others.

13:56

I mean, I guess potentially in another way, they

13:58

could like cover it up. or whatever. I mean,

14:01

again, it doesn't make total sense, or we don't

14:03

have all the pieces, but it's just a theory.

14:05

And then since no one investigates the military

14:07

to confirm this or shut it down, this

14:10

theory just kind of lingers. It's just like

14:12

out there still. Right. So since

14:15

police aren't really like getting answers, the

14:17

parents feel like it's their job to

14:19

do that. So actually, all of the

14:21

fathers of the boys kind of band

14:23

together, they quit their jobs to go

14:26

look for their kids full time. They

14:28

rent this truck, they outfit it with

14:30

photos of their boys like on the

14:32

side of it with the message, please

14:35

help find our missing children printed below.

14:37

And they drive this truck nationwide, searching

14:39

for their kids passing out flyers, raising

14:41

awareness for their plight everywhere they go.

14:43

And are the police doing anything at

14:46

this point? They are. I mean, they're

14:48

mostly doing searches and they have cast

14:50

a very wide net searching areas. I

14:53

mean, specifically with higher crime rates,

14:55

fishing boats, even some religious organizations,

14:58

which I know I think might

15:00

include organizations with religious affiliations like

15:03

orphanages, even for instance. And

15:05

it might be a good time to point out

15:07

that our main source is the documentary. It was

15:10

originally in Korean, but subtitled in English. So it's

15:12

possible that some of the translations, like

15:14

I don't know, they were lost, but the translations could be pretty

15:16

vague. But anyway, even the

15:18

sea and several islands outside of mainland

15:20

Korea are searched. But

15:23

really, I mean, again, even though they're going far and

15:25

wide, they're really like at least the police homing in

15:27

on this area where the boys were last seen. And

15:29

then like, kind of scoping out a little bit from there,

15:31

but it's the parents who are really like getting

15:34

all over. And this, I mean,

15:37

this kind of like, you know, them going out, the police

15:39

still searching this goes on for a year with

15:41

no sign of the boys. But

15:43

according to the doc, their parents do get

15:46

support from the National Organization of Missing

15:48

Children, which I think also might be a

15:50

translation issue in the documentary, because I can't

15:52

find any record of this organization existing.

15:54

There is something called the National Organization of

15:56

Finding Missing Children and Family, which I

15:58

think might what they mean,

16:01

especially because one of the men interviewed

16:03

in the doc and credited as the

16:05

chairman of the NOMC is actually the

16:07

head of the National Organization of Finding

16:09

Missing Children and Family. Again, maybe

16:12

it was named something different in the 90s or was something different

16:14

in the 90s, isn't anymore. But if you go looking it up,

16:16

like you're not, you're going to get a dead end. But

16:18

basically, I think it's like South Korea's version of NICMEC,

16:21

what we have, National Center for Missing Exploited Children here

16:23

in the US. But anyways, this

16:25

organization that they get help with

16:27

is especially wonderful for them

16:29

as they're doing media interviews. And

16:32

it's good that they have this

16:34

support because as they start doing more

16:36

and more interviews, something weird happens. About

16:39

a year into the boys disappearance,

16:41

as they're doing all these interviews,

16:44

they start spotting the same

16:47

people at all of them, which

16:49

I mean, on one hand, you

16:51

could be like, oh, it's like reporters following the

16:53

story. And that's what the chairman slash head of

16:55

this organization believes until he

16:58

actually has a conversation with one of these guys.

17:00

So in the documentary, the chairman explains

17:02

how he asked one of them who

17:04

he works for, like not in an

17:06

accusatory way, like, you know, they're having

17:08

a conversation, he's curious. Yeah. And the

17:10

man gives him a business card. But

17:13

the business card doesn't have like a

17:15

newspaper or even an organization name on

17:17

it. It just has the man's name,

17:19

a contact number, and the

17:21

title of manager on it. Manager

17:23

of what? Right. I mean,

17:26

strange, but you have to be like hired

17:28

as a manager and then manage things for

17:30

something to have that title. It makes no

17:32

sense. But like in that moment, the chairman

17:34

guy, he doesn't press the matter. But

17:37

it like is with him a neck and it

17:39

makes this guy stick out even more. So

17:42

when he and others show up again, and again,

17:45

and again, and when

17:47

I say like they keep showing up, I'm

17:49

not just talking about every interview, like

17:52

he sees this guy on the street, he

17:54

sees him where they're staying. Like this guy

17:56

is everywhere, like just

17:58

around. Yeah. Yeah,

18:00

yes. And it turns out

18:02

that everyone's right to be suspicious because that

18:04

guy who gave his card to the

18:06

chairman works for an intelligence

18:09

agency. How

18:11

did they find that out? I don't

18:13

know. That's like the big missing piece. There's like a

18:15

gap of reporting or at least the stuff that I

18:17

have access to. It feels like, um,

18:19

you remember that sign failed episode

18:21

where it's like, you know, they

18:23

keep those guys following them, yada, yada, yada.

18:26

He's an intelligence agent. Yeah, like we like

18:28

glazed over some pretty important

18:30

parts. Yeah. Okay.

18:32

Intelligence agency manager

18:34

dude or whatever. Do we

18:37

know why he's following them? So eventually

18:39

they just like straight up asked the

18:41

guy and the response that they get

18:43

is that he's protecting the fathers, protecting

18:45

them from what? Well, that's the question. But

18:48

almost they get an answer to that

18:50

one. And according to the documentary, none

18:53

of the fathers feel all that protected.

18:55

I mean, this is an intelligence agency.

18:57

And I mean, this

18:59

agency even sends people into their

19:02

homes. Like who set these guys?

19:05

The government question mark, has

19:08

there been any threats made

19:10

against the dads? Like, were they feeling that's the

19:12

thing I don't danger. I don't think so. And

19:15

honestly, it seems like to one of

19:17

the dads, specifically 11

19:19

year old chan in father,

19:22

kunso, he feels that

19:25

it's more like these people aren't

19:27

protecting them, but like looking into

19:29

them, like they had something

19:31

to do with this whole thing. Yeah, but

19:33

if that's what's happening, it doesn't seem like

19:35

they actually find anything. But again, the reporting

19:37

on this part, which I think is one

19:40

of the most interesting parts of this, it's

19:42

like really sparse. So I can't say for

19:44

sure. And it seems like at

19:46

some point, the surveillance eventually just dies

19:48

down. So I don't really have solid

19:50

answers around why it happened, what they

19:52

were looking for, what they were protecting

19:54

them from. It's just this like weird

19:56

piece of the puzzle. Now,

19:59

while All of that's going on,

20:01

or kind of wraps up. Meanwhile, the

20:03

public still hasn't forgotten about the boys.

20:05

And the attention seems to really culminate

20:08

when a director approaches the parents and

20:10

says that he wants to make a

20:12

movie about the disappearance of their sons.

20:15

And it seems like the parents are all for it. I

20:17

mean, they're kind of at the point where they'll just take

20:19

any publicity. Now, the English translation

20:21

of the movie is Come Back Frog Boys,

20:23

and it releases in 1992, but

20:26

it doesn't end up being very successful. At

20:29

the time, really emotional movies aren't that

20:31

popular in South Korea, so there's not a

20:33

surge of interest or influx of

20:35

tips. But the movie isn't

20:37

the only form of media that features the boys. After

20:40

it premieres, a singer contacts the parents, says

20:42

that they want to write a song about

20:44

them. Parents agree. Again, they're looking for any

20:46

publicity they can get. But just like the

20:48

movie, the song doesn't really generate any

20:50

real movement for the case either. And

20:52

same goes with a book that comes out shortly after

20:54

the song. So the fathers

20:56

spend the next two years traveling the country,

20:58

searching for any sign of their children or

21:01

someone who might know what happened to them.

21:04

And they're successful in keeping attention

21:06

on the case, for the most part.

21:08

But eventually, even that public interest fades.

21:10

And by then, the fathers just can't

21:13

keep going. I mean, they have funded pretty

21:15

much this whole three-year trip on their own,

21:17

and they have gone into debt that they

21:19

can't ignore anymore. So as much as

21:21

they want to keep searching for their kids,

21:23

they have to make the tough decision to

21:25

go home, return to their jobs, and to

21:27

try and piece their lives back together with

21:30

an important piece of each family still missing. It's

21:33

a difficult thing that they do, but

21:35

slowly they start to scrape together some

21:38

sense of structure. But

21:40

that structure is shattered

21:42

when the parents are contacted by

21:45

none other than members of the

21:47

military who want to meet them.

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approval. Terms apply. The

23:42

military personnel are from the base.

23:44

They're on the mountain and they

23:46

asked to meet in person at

23:49

night, specifically without letting

23:51

the local police know. But

23:54

if this is about the boys, like, I mean,

23:56

they'll go anywhere. They'll do anything no matter

23:58

how stetchy it feels. I mean, say. So

24:01

they agree and they head up the mountain

24:03

into the military base on the night they're

24:05

told to go. And once

24:07

they get there, they're led into this

24:09

large tent where there are some soldiers

24:11

waiting inside. I'm not sure how

24:13

many people are there, but the documentary reports

24:15

that one of them tells the parents that

24:17

he can help them find their kids with

24:20

the help of some supernatural

24:22

powers that he can give

24:24

them. I'm sorry. Yeah,

24:27

he says that he can give one

24:29

of them the power to locate where

24:31

their kids are. And this is the

24:33

military, right? Yes. This feels like

24:35

it's turning into an episode of Supernatural. I

24:38

was going to say, this isn't some religious

24:40

organization or... No, this is, yeah. This

24:42

is the military. They're on the military. Saying,

24:45

we have superpowers that we can dole out.

24:47

And listen, you know what? Not to turn

24:49

this into a Supernatural episode, but I think

24:51

the military, all militaries are working with some scary

24:54

stuff. We know that they've done testing of mind

24:56

control. Whatever. Anyways, I'm not going

24:58

to go down that rabbit hole. All I'm saying

25:00

is that... But they're basically saying that they have

25:02

this thing that they can dole out to civilians,

25:05

question mark, to help them solve

25:07

this? Yeah. I don't know if this is

25:09

new, because where was this three years ago? And

25:11

also, why not give it to one of your soldiers

25:13

to help find? Does it have to be a family

25:15

member? What are the rules of the supernatural powers? I

25:17

have so many questions. Maybe it has to

25:19

be someone connected. All I know is that Josie was missing for

25:22

three years and someone needed to lay hands on me so I

25:24

could find her. I would let them. You would take it.

25:27

I get it. It's exactly what happens. One by

25:29

one, this guy literally puts his hands

25:31

on the sides of their heads and,

25:33

I guess, giving them the

25:35

powers. When this man

25:37

gets to 12-year-old Young Yu's mom,

25:40

she starts just speaking

25:43

uncontrollably. Okay. Like,

25:45

she's possessed? I guess? I

25:47

don't know. Whatever's happening, it seems to

25:49

be what the soldier was looking for, though, because he

25:51

tells the parents to just, like, let

25:53

her talk. Let her lead the way. Follow

25:55

her wherever she goes. And, like, she leaves the

25:57

tent. They all exit the tent. She starts running.

26:00

up the mountain. Everyone's falling

26:02

close behind, but it's difficult to keep up.

26:05

I mean, it's raining, it's muddy, they're trying

26:07

to make it through the underbrush as safely

26:09

as possible, but they managed

26:11

to keep up and eventually, finally,

26:13

she stops and

26:15

she just screams that their

26:17

boys are here. And

26:19

I don't know what those parents must have

26:22

felt in that moment. Relief,

26:24

fear, devastation, but whatever

26:27

they felt must have quickly turned

26:29

to confusion and then anger because

26:32

their boys are not there. They're

26:34

not anywhere nearby either. I mean,

26:36

they do a search of this area

26:38

that turns up nothing, not a body, not

26:40

a scrap of clothing, nothing

26:42

connected to the boys. So

26:46

what the hell was all of this? I

26:48

don't know. I haven't really seen

26:50

an explanation of what happened. All

26:53

I know is that once they all

26:55

realize that their kids aren't there, the

26:58

parents are pissed. I

27:00

mean, understandably fuming. Were

27:03

the soldiers trying to be helpful? Were they

27:05

just playing this massive joke on them? Why

27:07

do they get the joke? I don't know.

27:09

It seems like something

27:11

happened. I can't explain any of it.

27:13

I don't even know if the parents

27:15

even went and reported this to police

27:17

or if the military personnel face any

27:19

consequences for doing this or if they were,

27:21

I don't know. I don't know. Kind

27:24

of like the whole intelligence agency thing. It's

27:26

just this another rent that is thrown in

27:28

the mix, but like for the

27:30

families feeling confused and frustrated.

27:32

Yeah. But if you thought that

27:35

was wild, just wait because in January of 1996,

27:38

a man named Kim Kallon comes forward

27:41

and says that he knows what happened

27:43

to the boys. Kallon

27:45

is a professor of psychology from the

27:47

States and according to the documentary, South

27:49

Korea doesn't have many criminal psychologists in

27:52

their country at the time. So

27:54

his background gives him a lot of credibility and

27:56

he says he's been following and studying the case For

27:59

a long time. Oh

28:02

you bet ten year old Jong

28:04

seeks father is responsible for their

28:07

disappearance. Okay,

28:09

he explains. So

28:11

he claims that joining seeks Dad who's name

28:13

is Kim told you. Apparently he

28:15

can't account for a few hours on the

28:17

day that the boys went missing. Which is

28:19

true. When the police look into the records

28:21

they have from a few years ago, there

28:23

is a period of three hours before the

28:25

boys were found to be missing. Where.

28:28

He didn't tell them what he was doing

28:30

said. This actually raises some

28:32

suspicion. Now. Lot

28:34

of the parents. I mean, they don't

28:37

think he could have done anything to

28:39

hurt their kids, especially the fathers who

28:41

remember any. they three years with this

28:44

guy traveling the country together or they're

28:46

all like there's no way he did

28:48

anything. But. Com one is

28:50

adamant that so you killed the

28:53

bullies and hit them somewhere. He

28:55

says likely similar. In his house. Now

28:58

the media gets. Word about the

29:00

accusation and I'm leaders

29:02

swarm the village. Soldiers.

29:05

House is searched specifically. They seem

29:08

to be looking in the bathroom

29:10

and in. This fact room. I

29:13

mean, effort. It seems like they might have

29:15

found something in the bathroom. Like they say,

29:17

they find children's. Shoes. Like

29:19

size specific pairs of shoes that belonged

29:21

the boys. Or just like a pair

29:24

of because there's a big as soon

29:26

as things I. Yes, you're right. I

29:28

can't. Find a detailed as to why this

29:30

was like the so Suspicious of like literally

29:32

all they say they find children shoes but

29:35

apparently it causes investigators to. Go to

29:37

the extent of being and an excavator. And

29:39

he started digging up the floor of the

29:41

bathroom is the theory that he killed the

29:43

kids and buried them in the bathroom all.

29:46

Three. Hours without yeah, anyone else

29:48

seeing? yeah Pretty much I feel like this

29:50

is a huge leap. But I will say

29:52

I kept saying that maybe don't see it

29:54

was the key to this because. Both

29:57

the host calls mentioned him specific like

29:59

he was the subject. I agree, like

30:01

I had that thought to and I

30:04

was first learning about all of this.

30:06

Like it's like he said one mean that

30:08

keeps getting brought up with with the hoaxes

30:10

specifically but even in even worry about any

30:13

with that were the case of what I

30:15

don't have a piece Hill is like, what

30:17

would the motives even be to go after

30:19

him? you know to mean I mean maybe

30:21

that's why they're looking at his parents now

30:23

to figure that out as I don't else

30:25

let's not viral too much because I as

30:28

it turns out they don't need to be

30:30

worried about that because once a bathroom is

30:32

done that investigators don't find anything According to

30:34

the documentary, they basically turned the whole house.

30:36

Upside down, there is no sign of

30:38

any of the bullets. That

30:41

once sold you is cleared. How

30:43

one who has been there the

30:45

whole time overseeing the excavation? Do.

30:48

Literally takes off running through the crowd that's

30:50

gathers because people start yelling at hands, telling

30:52

people to catch him and it's a little

30:54

bit of both of which I mean. She's

30:57

eventually taken to the police station. Not

30:59

even because he's arrested. I don't think

31:01

it's absurdly. For his own safety. Because.

31:04

People are pissed. And.

31:06

He obviously the parents and told you

31:08

specifically but the larger community is really

31:10

upset you. Yeah the seals like another

31:12

hoax. Yeah and I have been Again,

31:14

I like hoax or at this guy

31:16

with off I don't know. You're claiming

31:18

to be a psychologist like even behavioral

31:21

science people. those how you they don't

31:23

they don't know for Saturn Anyway, I

31:25

don't know there was a hoax or

31:27

just this guy. Lot of gray area

31:29

in those studies and I am. Long

31:32

since worry that ends up being the

31:34

last plus to own the boys for

31:36

years. Life goes on

31:38

as. The parents try to cope with the

31:40

loss rebuild. Their. Lives but it's not easy. Eleven.

31:43

Year old Chinese dad loses his job

31:45

and in his grief and anger over

31:48

what happened to his son, he gets

31:50

interface with police. He's eventually charged with

31:52

obstruction of justice. Ten. year old

31:55

jong seats dad told you dies

31:57

of cancer five years after his

31:59

house with never knowing what happened to

32:01

his son. And in the

32:03

end, it turns out that the

32:05

answer was just one year away. On

32:08

September 26th, 2002, the families get the news that

32:13

they have been hoping for, the news that they've

32:15

been dreading. The remains of

32:18

five bodies have been found on

32:20

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bodies were found by two locals. According

33:23

to the documentary, as they were hiking and collecting

33:25

acorns, they came across some

33:27

old clothes and what looked like human

33:30

bones among some rocks. And

33:32

this area that they're in, it's pretty

33:34

secluded. And when they report what they

33:36

found, everyone's thoughts immediately go to the

33:38

boys, even after all these years. And

33:40

when the parents get the news, they just

33:43

go up to the mountain, along with a

33:45

whole crowd of people and reporters to see

33:47

if they can identify the remains. Now,

33:49

all these bones and clothes are mostly buried.

33:52

And as they're dug up, it's difficult at

33:54

first for the parents to tell if it's

33:56

their kids. I mean, we're talking

33:58

skeletal remains. But eventually they

34:01

begin to recognize like the

34:04

things with them the shoes the pants

34:06

the jackets and the Braces

34:08

that are still attached to the teeth of

34:10

one of the skulls. I mean it is

34:12

their sons are all five of them there

34:15

Five sets of remains are found

34:17

buried among some rocks and trees But

34:21

as the excavation continues the parents

34:23

start to notice something odd Specifically

34:26

about the boys clothing a

34:29

few of them have their sleeves tied together

34:32

One of them has his clothes

34:34

inside out another has his pants

34:36

and shoes like flipped up over

34:39

his shoulders Or the clothes on

34:41

them or just with them. It's

34:43

a little hard to tell from what I'm like working

34:45

with here I know Huang Sun

34:47

Yoon's reporting for Korea Jung

34:49

Ang daily questions why the boys would

34:52

have taken their clothes off which to

34:54

me implies at least Some of

34:56

them were in dress but I mean even

34:58

though it's been over 10 years You think you'd be able

35:00

to tell for the most part right like I mean even

35:02

though the remains are skeletal The

35:05

bones would be in the clothes right even

35:07

if the stuff was like the great I don't know like legs

35:10

and pants the arms and sleeves of jackets stuff

35:12

like that, right? Right, right But

35:15

either way the state of the clothing isn't

35:17

the only thing that disturbs the parents because

35:19

as the remains and clothing are

35:22

being Processed the sleeves on one

35:24

of the jackets is untied and

35:26

a few empty Cartridges fall out

35:29

and then investigators find several unused

35:31

bullets in the children's clothes,

35:33

too Is there any evidence of

35:35

a gunshot wound on any of them? So one of

35:38

them on one of the skulls has holes like on

35:40

both sides, but at this point I don't think they

35:42

can tell even what could have made the hole So

35:44

there are like pieces of this puzzle that look like

35:46

are fitting together, but they can't like tell right there

35:49

Now once the bodies are found the police call in

35:52

a forensics team to assist But

35:54

it takes a while for them to arrive. So by

35:56

the time they actually get to the mountain about

35:59

three of the five bodies have already

36:01

been taken out of the ground. They've

36:03

been excavated. Wait, who is doing

36:05

this excavating? Because the whole town is

36:08

up there and the police and not

36:10

the forensics team? It's not

36:12

like the parents are. It's the police who've

36:14

been doing it, but the problem

36:16

is they're not trained to be doing

36:18

this sort of work. Right. And

36:20

that inexperience is on full display when the

36:22

forensics team finally makes it all the way

36:24

up there. What they find out

36:27

is that the police haven't been like carefully

36:29

laying the bones out in like the order

36:31

that they found them or trying to even

36:33

put together skeletons or anything like that. Instead,

36:36

they were like grouping bones

36:38

together. What do you mean? They're like,

36:40

okay, all the skulls put the

36:42

skulls in the skull's pile. All the long bones.

36:44

Let's make a long bones pile. Yeah.

36:46

And they're not even like on a sterile

36:49

tarp or anything. They're just like laying it

36:51

out on newspaper. You're kidding me. I

36:53

wish I was kidding you. Thankfully,

36:55

when the forensics team arrives, they put a

36:58

stop to all this nonsense. They take over.

37:00

But by that point, it's, I mean,

37:02

too late for some of them. I mean,

37:04

there have been so many mistakes made and

37:06

the forensics team can only analyze the bones

37:08

that they recover. However,

37:11

before the forensics team can even

37:13

dive into that analysis, the police

37:15

announced their theory. They

37:17

say that the boys died from hypothermia.

37:19

They say that temperatures on the mountain

37:21

the night that they vanished went down

37:23

to like 37 degrees

37:25

Fahrenheit. And according to an article

37:28

in the Waterloo region record by the Associated

37:30

Press since the boys were all found

37:32

very close together, they believe that

37:34

they had huddled together for warmth,

37:36

presumably after getting lost and eventually

37:39

just succumbed to the cold. I'm sorry,

37:41

this doesn't make any sense

37:43

to me. They knew

37:46

this mountain. I know.

37:48

They've been up there when their parents found

37:50

out that they went to this mountain. Their

37:52

parents felt good, okay about it because they

37:54

were familiar with it. And it's like, you'd

37:56

like to me, so you're familiar even if

37:58

you got to a weird place like

38:01

the village is down below like just start going

38:03

down you know what I mean you don't

38:05

huddle together and like right tie your clothes well

38:08

and also like if you die from

38:10

hypothermia you can't bury yourself they were

38:12

buried mm-hmm I mean maybe I guess

38:15

it's been so long they're on a

38:17

mountain they might have gotten buried naturally

38:19

but like it doesn't seem right and

38:21

all those people were searching actually at

38:24

that point like okay if them being

38:26

buried wasn't somebody like digging a grave

38:28

it happened over time then

38:30

what I don't understand is how they weren't found

38:32

before because then that means that they were just

38:34

laying out in the open and we know that

38:37

that mountain was searched by a lot of people

38:39

for a long time I know and

38:41

that's where I really get hung up it's

38:43

like how they had been out there this

38:45

whole time without anyone finding them it

38:47

does not add up like you cannot make

38:49

that add up to me well and on

38:52

top of all that the bullets tied up

38:54

in their clothing again make

38:56

it make sense with hypothermia what I know

38:58

and I mean this honestly I think it

39:00

all comes back to that very first theory

39:02

where they're found is only about 300 meters like

39:05

985 feet

39:08

from that military shooting range

39:11

oh the police try to like explain away

39:13

the bullets saying like oh yes they were close

39:15

to that area they probably found some bullets they

39:17

were playing with the bullets which is

39:19

why they were found with their

39:22

remains I could maybe say that

39:24

for like the spent cartridges but the unused

39:26

bullets how how did they get that well

39:28

and to me if that's

39:30

true then where they were was

39:33

by the shooting range and and they again I

39:35

go back to they weren't lost they knew where

39:37

the shooting range was what about the hole in

39:40

one of their heads what so this is skipping

39:42

ahead a little bit it turns out that the

39:45

holes are determined not to be from a gunshot

39:47

wound like there's no fracture of the bone but

39:49

like reminder they're saying this before

39:52

the forensic team is like done

39:54

so like well again at

39:56

the time for them to be like at like shouldn't

39:58

you wait oh like a smidge right I mean,

40:00

at least for optics, please.

40:03

But listen, even if one of

40:05

them was accidentally shot, Hwang

40:08

Sun-Yoon reports for the Korea

40:10

Jung-ang daily that there isn't

40:12

any blood or anything

40:14

on any of their clothes to indicate that.

40:17

But again, like they're doing this all so early, do

40:19

they even like fully realize that? I don't

40:21

know. What kind of tests are they doing? I have

40:24

so many questions. The tests aren't done

40:26

yet. The tests aren't even started yet. Listen,

40:28

all that to say, even

40:30

though they're presenting this serious fact, the

40:32

parents are unconvinced. They say there was

40:34

no way their kids just got lost

40:36

and died of hypothermia. There

40:38

is no doubt in their minds that

40:40

their kids were murdered. And considering the

40:43

bullets and the proximity to the shooting

40:45

range, they are more sure than ever

40:47

that the military had something to do

40:49

with their deaths after all. Their

40:52

theory is made even more convincing when

40:54

the military does come out and say,

40:56

yes, those bullets were theirs,

40:59

but they fully deny any involvement in

41:01

the boy's deaths. Then how did a

41:03

bunch of kids get access to your

41:05

bullets, military? I know. To

41:08

your point, like not just the case things, like unused

41:10

bullets. I don't know if they're saying that you just

41:12

found them on the mountain, but to me, like that's

41:15

a little negligent. Those would be like

41:18

on base, secured, checked out when you're

41:20

like practicing at the range. I

41:23

don't know. I don't even know if they like even

41:25

try and offer an explanation. But

41:27

there are even more questions because

41:30

the forensic teens, once they get

41:32

to actually do their jobs that

41:34

they're paid to do, they

41:36

find some evidence that the boy's deaths

41:38

may not have been from natural causes.

41:42

See, on some of the bones specifically, on

41:44

the skull of 14-year-old Chul-1, they

41:47

find these marks that look to

41:49

be from a blunt instrument. They're

41:51

like these little indents and some

41:53

of the other bones have cuts in them too. Now,

41:56

of course, police come out and say that those

41:58

marks likely occurred post-mortem. But, you know, just to

42:01

be sure, the forensic team sends photos of

42:03

the marks over to an anthropologist in

42:05

the States for a second opinion, and

42:07

the American anthropologist says that not only

42:09

are those marks, quote, man-made,

42:13

they happened before Tulwan

42:15

died. So what made

42:17

them? That's the question

42:19

that they can't answer. There

42:21

is one theory that the boys died

42:23

of blunt force trauma, but they

42:26

can't prove it. So they're

42:28

at this kind of standoff with

42:30

one another. And that's when the

42:32

rescue team director for the Korea

42:35

Alpine Federation gets word of the

42:37

police's hypothermia theory. And he

42:39

feels that something isn't right either. He

42:42

states in the documentary that he actually

42:44

goes to the mountain to take a

42:46

look around, and based on his expertise,

42:48

he doesn't think hypothermia tracks. For

42:51

one, the boys weren't found super

42:53

high on the mountain. Not only that,

42:55

but they're less than 100 meters. We're

42:57

talking a little over 300 feet from

42:59

a road, which is what I

43:02

was saying earlier. So if they were lost

43:04

and right from a road on a mountain

43:06

that they're familiar with. Yeah. I mean, you're

43:08

cold enough to get hypothermia. They could have

43:10

easily made it back to civilization.

43:12

Even if it wasn't their village, they could

43:14

have found someone to help them. And

43:17

this Korea Alpine Federation guy also can't help

43:19

but notice how close the boys were to

43:21

the shooting range. And while

43:23

they were technically outside of it, he knows

43:25

that one of the guns that the military

43:28

used was an M16, which can

43:30

shoot really far. The distance from the

43:32

military base to where the remains were

43:34

found is within effective range for an

43:36

M16. But there would

43:38

have been blood on their clothes if that

43:40

had happened, right? That's true. But

43:42

the parents think that's because, or like

43:45

the lack of it is because only one of the

43:47

boys got shot. So their theory goes that the boys

43:49

were out on the mountain near the shooting range.

43:52

One of them was accidentally shot and killed.

43:56

And in order to cover it up, the military killed

43:58

the other four via blunt force.

44:00

trauma. Why blunt force trauma if you

44:02

shot one of them, why dump

44:04

them on the side of the mountain? Like, I don't

44:06

know. I don't know. And I like,

44:09

I know there's a lot of times blunt force

44:11

trauma doesn't result in any kind of bleeding. I'm

44:13

still kind of surprised that if one of them

44:15

was shot, we don't see any blood on anything.

44:17

You know what I mean? Even just from that,

44:19

the one right? I don't know. I don't know.

44:21

Well, I'm like, had the clothes degraded? Were they

44:23

supposed to elements at all? Like, there's just a

44:25

lot of questions. Yeah. And what I imagine too,

44:27

is I imagine being five kids out there, you're

44:29

literally playing all of a sudden your

44:31

friend is shot. What do you

44:33

do? I mean, I do

44:35

do all stay there and huddle. Do

44:37

you run? Like, how did they even

44:39

corral all the kids? I don't

44:42

know. Like, there's something about it that that like

44:44

isn't working either. I can't there's a piece

44:46

that I'm missing. If that's what happened,

44:48

and they killed the other boys, because one

44:51

was accidentally shot, did it all happen there on the side

44:53

of the mountain? Like, how did they

44:55

find out about if it was that far away?

44:57

So there's a tie to this military thing. And

44:59

there's a bit of a caveat to this. Something

45:02

that might like, again, help tight even more. So

45:04

remember how I said that the boys went missing

45:06

on a national holiday? Yeah, it was like an

45:08

election day. So the military

45:10

wasn't holding drills that day. So

45:13

your everyday soldier wasn't shooting, but commissioned

45:15

officers were permitted to use the shooting

45:17

range at any time. And

45:19

there is a rumor that circulates that

45:22

this one particular officer went out that

45:24

day with the intent to like use

45:26

up some unspent bullets. Although the name

45:28

of that officer is unknown. And I

45:30

mean, at the end of the day, it's just a

45:32

rumor. But but I go back to like, then you're

45:35

talking, it's not like the whole military is running drills.

45:37

And then this happened. And you have like the whole

45:39

military go cover this up, it would, it would have

45:41

been like one person you have one officer doing

45:43

all of it. Yeah. So I don't know.

45:46

Ultimately, the forensic team releases a report that states

45:48

that the boys were killed and buried all in

45:50

that same spot. So even you were saying earlier,

45:52

the idea they were killed them off, they say

45:55

what all happened there. And I

45:57

think this for a few reasons. One,

45:59

because the bones that they excavated were

46:01

all in anatomical order. So

46:04

had they decomposed first and then been

46:06

buried where they were found, their bones

46:08

wouldn't have stayed all put together, which

46:11

like I get what they're saying, but again, at the same time,

46:13

if they would have been moved and buried while they

46:15

were like immediately after death, like I

46:17

think you would have seen the same thing, right?

46:19

I mean, immediately is also subjective. Maybe we should

46:21

have done a couple of days even. But

46:24

the other thing they point to is they say when a

46:26

body decomposes, certain chemicals will seep into the

46:28

soil around it. And even all these

46:30

years later, the soil around them still

46:32

contains these chemicals indicating that this

46:34

is where they decomposed. So

46:37

I'm like, I think it's less of like where,

46:39

like where are they killed and put there

46:41

more that what they're

46:43

saying is that they have decomposed

46:46

there in that spot. So

46:48

they have been essentially been there the whole

46:50

time. Yeah, for a significant amount of that

46:52

time. Yeah. And but like the National Organization

46:54

of Missing Children, that guy, he gets hung

46:56

up on the fact that no one found

46:58

them during all those searches of the mountains

47:00

when the boys first went missing. So like

47:02

if you were saying everything points to the

47:04

fact that they've been there the whole time,

47:07

what the heck? I mean, honestly,

47:09

I'm hung up on the exact same

47:11

thing. I know. But like, no

47:14

one can prove anything. And

47:16

what's worse, if the boys really were murdered,

47:18

time is actually running out to find who

47:21

killed them and charge them with the crime

47:23

because the statute of limitations for murder there

47:25

is just 15 years at the

47:27

time. So with that deadline

47:29

creeping up, the race is on to

47:31

find out what happened to these boys.

47:34

Is anybody even in that race,

47:36

though? Police think it's hypothermia. Well, I mean, they

47:38

might have a theory, but they do go back

47:41

and review all of their old records from the

47:43

time that the boys disappeared looking for anything that

47:45

they missed that could point to their killer

47:47

or killers. But even in doing that, they

47:49

don't find anything. So then they just stop

47:51

with their investigation, which to the parents just

47:54

feels like they're giving up and

47:56

they don't want to rest until they know definitely

47:58

what happened to their kids. But

48:00

with the forensic report out and the police

48:02

not willing to do more, I

48:05

mean, there's only so much that they can do. By

48:07

2004, the parents make the decision to

48:09

finally lay their children to rest.

48:11

They are each cremated, and on March 26,

48:13

2004, exactly

48:15

13 years after they

48:18

went missing, their ashes are scattered in

48:20

a nearby river. I mean,

48:22

the parents felt that it was only right

48:24

to release their ashes together because they were

48:26

inseparable in life, and hopefully they can find

48:28

peace together in death. Now,

48:31

over the years, the parents have tried to keep

48:33

the fight going for their kids. There

48:35

was a lawsuit that was filed against the

48:37

police, which ended up going to trial, like

48:39

three trials, actually, all of which ended with

48:42

the judge siding with the police. There

48:44

is a win in 2007 when the

48:46

statute of limitations for murder was

48:48

raised from 15 to 25 years, and

48:51

then in 2015, it's removed entirely, which is great,

48:53

like, if they ever find out who murdered them,

48:55

now they can actually do something about it. But

48:58

by 2015, and even to

49:00

this day, 2024, there

49:02

haven't been any updates. The

49:04

idea that the military was involved

49:06

is still the general consensus among

49:08

the parents and the public as

49:11

a whole. But unless someone

49:13

comes forward with new information,

49:16

the deaths of Chow Wan,

49:18

Ho Yan, Yang Yu, Chan

49:20

In, and Zhang Xik will

49:22

remain shrouded in mystery. You

49:26

can find all the source material for

49:28

this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com. And

49:32

you can follow us on Instagram at CrimeJunkiePodcast. We'll

49:35

be back next week with a brand new episode, but

49:37

make sure to stick around because

49:40

we have the good segment for you

49:42

coming up. Alright,

50:17

welcome back, crime junkies! Let's talk

50:19

about some good! Yes, I love

50:22

ending our month on a high

50:24

note by sharing these just incredible stories.

50:26

And don't forget, we could share yours

50:28

too. Head on over to the

50:31

Good Segment page on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com,

50:33

to submit a story of your own!

50:35

The whole team, truly. We love reading

50:38

every single one of them, so

50:40

please send them our way. Yeah,

50:42

you guys, even if it doesn't make it to

50:44

the end of an episode at the end of

50:46

the month, this whole thing started. It makes

50:48

it to the whole team. Yeah, this whole thing started because we have

50:50

a Slack channel at work called The Good, and every

50:53

time we get an amazing story

50:55

or hear something amazing that came out of

50:57

the work that we're doing, we put it in there, the

50:59

whole team. I mean, it's what keeps all of us going every

51:01

week, so please share your story. Yeah, and we'll have

51:03

a direct link to that in our

51:05

show notes. Alright, so without further ado,

51:08

grit! Right in our days with something good! Hello,

51:12

fellow crime junkie and teacher here. Last

51:14

month, I listened to your episode about Maya Pena

51:16

and Emma Walker. This episode

51:18

was so powerful, and it got me

51:20

thinking. I teach high school

51:23

English, and since this episode was centered around

51:25

high school students, I really wanted to incorporate

51:27

it within our class somehow. I

51:30

went back and forth with myself, especially with the

51:32

climate of the House Bill 1134 here in

51:34

Indiana, and debated getting

51:37

in trouble for sharing the information.

51:39

Then, in true crime junkie fashion, I said,

51:43

screw that! If I can help even one

51:45

kiddo, it's worth it. I will deal with

51:47

the repercussions. I love that, by

51:49

the way. I mean, honestly, that

51:51

alone is powerful. If you guys don't know, haven't

51:54

been paying attention to what's going on with teachers

51:56

in some states, and how their job can literally

51:58

be at risk for sharing. About

52:00

a podcast like yeah, I mean that is

52:02

Huge. So. I listen to the episode

52:05

with my eleventh grade classes. It fit

52:07

in perfectly since we just started or

52:09

narrative unit. I. Obviously, discuss

52:11

the great narrative techniques. y'all use

52:13

that as foreshadowing and fucking the

52:16

listener, reader tone, etc. But most

52:18

importantly, I got the word out

52:21

to students. It was

52:23

very powerful. I have since

52:25

had several students come up to me and tell me

52:27

thank you for letting them. Listen to the podcast.

52:29

They. Tell me their stories and I even

52:31

had some ask me how to help

52:34

their friends and similar situation. As my

52:36

day went on, I introduced the story

52:38

for the fourth time that day and

52:40

somehow in his class I began telling

52:42

them my own story of domestic violence.

52:44

They had so many questions and I did

52:47

my best to answer when I could. We.

52:49

Definitely bonded and had a moment

52:51

that they in class. All.

52:53

All I'm sharing the select you all know

52:56

the word has been shared with even more

52:58

listeners and you are all helping in so

53:00

many late. I wanted to

53:02

say thank you. For. Me and my

53:04

eleventh grade. I'm. So

53:07

glad I was able to share my

53:09

favorite podcast with my students and get

53:11

a powerful message out there. There were

53:13

many lessons taught that day in class.

53:16

And you for your time. Perhaps

53:18

amazing. How of army

53:20

Again like how how. Brave! How amazing.

53:22

and I love like being able to

53:24

start of those kind of conversations. And

53:26

wheat this is. I kind of been

53:28

a consistent theme in a lot of

53:30

feedback. We get it said. I never.

53:32

I never thought to bring it up.

53:35

You assume people know, but especially young

53:37

people like Zoomy know what they get

53:39

high and the weather exposed Kill? Yeah,

53:41

yeah and of only fear, experience or

53:43

potentially toxic relationship like they don't They

53:45

don't know that there's something better for

53:47

them or how they can protect themselves

53:49

or see the warning signs. and. Man,

53:52

it's like it's it's it's cooler. Think about

53:54

how to safely. Do can live on even

53:56

if no one ever here's our episode. Necessarily

53:58

not like that's freakin' amazing. They can. Anything.

54:00

I mean. I've heard the. Agreement you

54:02

know about right? Like Jesse my solve

54:04

all the cases, have every family. it's

54:07

him. the justice they deserve but there's

54:09

so much more they can be taken

54:11

away from. I need every episode. So

54:13

think you to this rock star teacher

54:15

for helping us make the world a

54:17

better and safer place. Tangent:

54:24

He is an audio track production. So.

54:27

What do you think? Chuck? You brew. For.

54:30

Him.

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