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to get the most effective learning program out there

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at the best price. Hi,

2:05

Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers.

2:07

And I'm Britt. And today's

2:09

story, the one that I have for

2:12

you, is really about the ripple effect

2:14

of tragedy, the way that one tragedy

2:16

can trigger more in its wake. And

2:19

in this case, it's about a little girl

2:21

who went out to play in her small,

2:23

safe Ohio town and then never made it

2:25

home. Then it's also the story

2:27

of what came next. This

2:30

is the story of Devin

2:32

Duniver. When

3:07

Lori Duniver comes downstairs a few minutes

3:09

before two in the afternoon of Saturday,

3:11

June 27th, 1998, she's

3:13

like trying to wrangle her kids for a trip to

3:16

the grocery store. She's not like

3:18

super surprised, although maybe a little

3:20

frustrated when her eight-year-old son says

3:22

that his five-year-old sister, Devin, is

3:24

somewhere outside. Even though Lori specifically

3:26

told them to stay put when

3:28

she went upstairs to get ready

3:30

at around 1.30. Now

3:32

she knows Devin's got a lot of friends in the neighborhood she

3:34

likes to play with, so she figures like she's got to be out

3:37

with one of them. So Lori heads out

3:39

to find her. The first kid she

3:41

runs into right outside, this kid named Michael,

3:43

says he hasn't seen her. And

3:45

she gets the same responses at the house

3:47

of a little boy named Adrian, just about

3:49

a block away when she goes knocking on

3:51

his door. So finally, she heads

3:53

to the home of a little girl named Caitlin. Because

3:56

if Devin is anywhere, it's gotta be here

3:58

at Caitlin's house. Except nobody

4:00

answers the door. So she heads

4:03

back to their apartment building, and she and her

4:05

son start kind of walking around outside. I

4:07

mean, just calling out Devin's name, and

4:09

I'm calling and calling and calling. And

4:11

Lori is starting to get worried enough

4:13

that she even offers another neighborhood kid

4:15

that she knows five bucks to help

4:17

them look for her. This

4:19

kid was Michael, that first kid she

4:21

ran into, Michael's 12-year-old brother, Anthony. So

4:24

he joins them for the next few hours until

4:27

Lori's friends and family start showing up

4:29

to help out. But even

4:31

with extra feet on the ground, they're

4:33

coming up empty, and Lori's getting more

4:36

concerned as evening approaches. I mean, for

4:38

one, because she knows that a massive

4:40

storm is forecast to hit any time

4:43

now. So massive, in fact, that

4:45

they end up having multiple tornado warnings that

4:47

night. But she's still thinking, like, look,

4:50

no one answered the door at Caitlin's. Maybe

4:52

she's there playing, and, like, no

4:54

one heard her knocking or something. So her cousin

4:56

goes to Caitlin's house one last time. But

4:58

what they learn only worries them more because

5:00

a neighbor ends up telling them that the whole

5:02

family is actually out of town. They're on vacation.

5:05

Oh. And that's one of

5:07

those, like, record-scratch moments in a TV

5:09

show. So at 8-11, after

5:11

about six hours of not being able

5:13

to find her daughter, and with this

5:15

storm barreling in, a desperate

5:18

Lori calls the new Philadelphia Police Department to

5:20

report her daughter missing. Now, that

5:23

lapse in time puts NPPD at

5:25

an immediate disadvantage. But

5:28

what's done is done, and there are no do-overs. So they

5:30

get to work, first by getting the word out to

5:33

the community that a little girl is missing and

5:35

they need help. And despite nightfall

5:37

and despite the awful weather, volunteer

5:39

searchers show up in a massive way.

5:42

I mean, hundreds of them. The

5:44

team is so big that one searcher named Donna tells 2020 producers that all

5:46

the flickering in the dark could

5:49

almost be mistaken for fireflies if you didn't

5:51

know any better. And a lot

5:54

of these people out there searching are out way past midnight.

5:58

Storms and darkness be damned. Not

6:00

all heroes wear capes. They sure don't, but

6:03

capeless ones generally do

6:05

require sleep. So

6:07

they finally call the search off at about 2.30 in

6:10

the morning, but just for a couple of

6:12

hours. Then they start up

6:14

again around dawn, June 28, over 400 strong. But

6:19

they have like a whole new challenge

6:21

to face because that storm that happened

6:23

the previous night has turned into a

6:25

blazing hot summer day. But

6:28

still, in this search, they leave

6:30

no stones unturned, especially in that

6:32

wooded area behind Lori's apartment building.

6:35

Because everyone knows that the neighborhood kids like

6:37

to play there, and there are plenty of

6:39

little nooks and crannies hiding places. As

6:42

Josie calls them, every time she finds a bush, she can climb

6:44

into a fort. So these searchers

6:46

aren't even just on foot, but literally

6:48

on hands and knees, sometimes getting down

6:50

on all fours to see under fallen

6:52

branches, see under other storm debris. But

6:55

everywhere they look, there is no Devon. So

6:57

they end up doing this all through the morning of

7:00

the 28th. And when

7:02

two volunteers named Marcia and Amy join

7:04

the search, they head to the wooded

7:06

area, even though it's already been searched

7:08

numerous times. Honestly, they're probably expecting to

7:10

find nothing. But

7:13

as they approach a recently fallen tree, one

7:15

that had collapsed last night, I mean, in

7:17

the storm, Marcia notices an

7:20

unnatural flash of red in this

7:22

sea of earth tones. It's like

7:24

peeking out through some nearby briar

7:26

and brush and fallen limbs. And

7:29

this immediately gets her heart just

7:31

like pumping because they've all been

7:33

told what Devon was last wearing

7:35

when she went missing, which included

7:37

a pair of red shorts. Janet

7:40

Frankston reports in the Akron Beacon Journal

7:42

that Marcia is just thinking, oh God,

7:46

don't let this be what I think it

7:48

is. And out loud, she's screaming, oh no,

7:50

oh no. But

7:52

it is exactly what she doesn't want it to

7:54

be. Marcia checks a fully

7:56

clothed Devon for a pulse, but it is far

7:59

too late for that. And even

8:01

for two experienced EMTs, which they

8:03

both are, by the way, it's

8:05

a devastating scene, only made more jarring

8:08

by the awkward position that Devon is in. Like

8:11

she had just almost been tossed there, unceremoniously,

8:14

and left exactly as she'd fallen. And how did

8:16

she die? Well,

8:18

from what the Sentinel Tribune reports,

8:20

there were multiple penetrating wounds to

8:22

her neck. So stab wounds? Of

8:26

some kind, but, I mean, they can't even

8:28

say right away how those puncture wounds occurred.

8:30

Because apparently investigators haven't ruled out the

8:32

possibility that Devon somehow died in the storm.

8:34

I mean, that's honestly even what Laurie has

8:36

initially told, that Devon was killed by fallen

8:39

limbs in debris, or maybe from falling from

8:41

a tree, like where she tried to take cover, which

8:45

I guess might explain why she was found

8:47

under branches and whatnot, like if she had

8:49

been there through the storm. But it doesn't

8:51

explain a whole lot else. Yeah,

8:54

like where on earth was she for the six hours before

8:57

the storm happened? Right. And how did

8:59

no one find her sooner? I mean, you said this space

9:01

had already been searched pretty thoroughly. Right,

9:03

and the obvious answer is in front of

9:05

us, that she didn't die in the storm.

9:08

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9:10

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10:57

right away the police department opens up

10:59

a homicide investigation. And the day after

11:01

she's found, NPPD Captain Jeff Urban runs

11:04

into 12 year old Anthony Harris while

11:06

he's out canvassing. That same Anthony who

11:08

helped Laurie search the afternoon that Devon

11:10

went missing. And according to

11:13

Captain Urban, he is taken aback

11:15

when he asks Anthony if he

11:17

knew Devon. And Anthony's response includes

11:19

something about her being a quote

11:22

unquote nasty rude little girl. And

11:24

I want to pause here, little disclaimer, because

11:27

this exchange comes up a lot and there

11:29

are no recordings of it as far as

11:31

I can tell. In

11:33

fact, in a recorded interview just

11:35

a few days later, it is

11:37

Captain Urban who asks Anthony if

11:40

Devon was a quote unquote nasty

11:42

little girl. Now, is he

11:44

asking because Anthony had already said something to

11:46

that effect? Or is this one

11:48

of those things where he suggested the sentence

11:51

and got a 12 year old kid to

11:53

agree and then brought it up

11:55

again days later to get it on tape? I

11:57

don't know. this

12:00

right now. But for the

12:02

moment that's really all that is said about

12:04

the interaction with Anthony that happens on the

12:06

29th. But it was enough to make

12:08

Urban want to speak to him again a couple

12:10

of days later on July 2nd for that recorded

12:12

interview. So that's when Captain

12:14

Urban asks that Anthony accompany him down

12:17

to the station. I'm sorry, whom does

12:19

he ask? He asks Anthony.

12:22

Anthony who is 12. 12 year old

12:24

Anthony. Does anyone ask Cindy if this

12:26

is okay? So this is what's

12:29

really interesting. They kind of ask her. Okay. I

12:32

guess Captain Urban apparently tells her that he

12:34

wants Anthony and Michael both to come in

12:36

to look at some pictures. And

12:38

she agrees saying that she's just got to run

12:41

inside and grab her car keys. But when she

12:43

comes back out, Captain Urban and Anthony are

12:45

just gone. I feel like I know where

12:47

this is headed. I hate

12:49

this. And you should because once Captain Urban

12:52

has Anthony in his car, one

12:54

of the first things he does is

12:56

Mirandize him. I know I literally

12:58

just said this, but he's 12. What

13:02

12 year old understands like

13:05

the weight, the significance, I mean, the meaning

13:07

even of being Mirandized. That wasn't you or

13:09

me when we were 12. I mean, like

13:11

maybe I watched a lot of Perry Mason

13:13

to be fair. But like, I

13:16

mean, I think about I think about your son, like, and

13:18

I'll take it a step further. More

13:20

than understanding the meaning of being Mirandized,

13:23

do they understand the significance of waving

13:25

their Miranda rights? Right. Obviously, that's the

13:27

goal here or else, like they wouldn't

13:30

be able to do an interview and

13:32

you wouldn't be asking without his mom

13:34

present. Yeah. And like going back to

13:36

like, I have a 16 year old, I've been through

13:38

12 year old boy already, like, he's

13:41

not a bad kid. He's not a dumb

13:44

kid. At 16. I at 16. Like,

13:46

would Eli know what to do? I just saw

13:48

him wash his water bottle, fill it with hot

13:50

water and soap and take a sip forgetting he

13:52

was washing his water bottle. Like,

13:54

please, please ask me before

13:57

you Mirandize him, please. Seriously.

14:01

And listen, the other thing is, much

14:03

like Eli, Anthony isn't a kid that

14:06

gets in trouble. Like,

14:08

his experience with juvenile court, the

14:10

criminal justice system, it's zilch. And

14:13

it's not just that he's never been

14:15

in trouble before. Cindy raised her sons

14:17

to respect authority, especially when it comes

14:19

to law enforcement. Like, she's been telling

14:21

them that the police are the good

14:23

guys. They're there to protect you, follow

14:25

their instructions, cooperate with them. So not

14:27

only does he have no sort of

14:29

history or experience to be skeptical, he's

14:31

been conditioned not to be skeptical, not

14:33

to ask questions. Because we were all

14:35

taught that that's like, you know, what

14:37

you're supposed to do when the system

14:39

is working the right way. So

14:41

I'm guessing that's partly why he is

14:44

so open with Captain Urban that day

14:46

about this scuffle that he and Devon

14:48

had gotten into a few weeks prior.

14:51

I don't know what led up to it, but

14:53

Anthony says that one day, Devon had thrown a

14:55

brick at him and it hit him. And

14:57

like I imagine anyone who's been hit with a brick,

15:00

like this upset him. So

15:02

given this story and

15:04

given what Captain Urban claims were

15:06

Anthony's conflicting stories on the 29th

15:08

about his whereabouts leading up to

15:10

Devon's disappearance, now he's like

15:13

on full high alert. What were these conflicting

15:15

stories? I didn't like, yeah, I didn't break

15:17

it fully down. As far as I can

15:19

tell, they're basically whether Anthony had

15:21

left his friend's house a few minutes

15:24

before or a few minutes after too

15:27

on the day that Devon went missing. And

15:29

then which exact path that he took

15:31

home. He doesn't get why it's changing,

15:33

but that's the part he thinks is sus. But

15:36

either way, it put him in the woods, which

15:38

we already knew. I mean, that's where Laurie ran

15:40

into him as she was walking out of the

15:42

woods where Devon's body was later found. Cause

15:45

that's where she offered him five bucks to

15:47

help her search, which isn't great, I get

15:49

it. But remember all the kids played in

15:51

these woods and they cut through them sometimes.

15:54

And this area was searched repeatedly

15:56

by numerous volunteers, none of whom

15:58

saw Devon's body. body there until

16:01

Marcia and Amy found her in

16:03

the afternoon the next day. And

16:06

by the way, Laurie never saw any blood or

16:08

anything on Anthony, which I think is important to

16:10

know, like as he's coming out of the woods.

16:13

But because he was in the woods,

16:15

because his story is changing, because

16:18

he supposedly called her a nasty

16:20

girl, urban is suspicious. This

16:23

obviously isn't enough to hold Anthony on,

16:25

at least at that time. So

16:27

he just has to keep digging, keep trying

16:29

to talk to him. So

16:32

Captain Urban convinces Anthony's mom, Cindy,

16:34

to consent to a search of

16:36

their apartment. And there will

16:38

be disputes in the future over just

16:40

how voluntarily Cindy's consent is. I'm

16:42

not sure that it matters much, because what

16:45

Captain Urban doesn't tell her is

16:47

that he's already got a search warrant in hand.

16:50

During the search, investigators seize Anthony's

16:53

clothes from the day of Devon's

16:55

disappearance. They don't find anything

16:57

that they were hoping for, like

16:59

the thing that could really crack the case wide

17:02

open, a pocket knife, which is what they're guessing

17:04

she was stabbed with. So

17:06

when he asked Cindy to bring both

17:08

Anthony and his brother Michael back down

17:10

to the station on July 15th, saying

17:12

that investigators wanted to give them both

17:14

voice stress tests, she doesn't hesitate.

17:17

Devon's own brother has already been given one, which

17:19

he passed. So Cindy's confident that her sons have

17:22

nothing to hide. She has no concerns that the

17:24

same won't happen here. And

17:26

when they get to the station, Cindy has all

17:28

the right instincts. She says she wants to be

17:30

in the room while the tests are conducted. But

17:33

according to Captain Urban, he says it's important

17:36

that Chief Vaughn, this guy that they bring

17:38

in to do it, be alone with the

17:40

person that he's interviewing. And

17:42

besides, he says they can watch and listen

17:44

from this adjacent room through this two-way mirror.

17:48

So Anthony is taken into an interrogation room

17:50

with Chief Vaughn. He's the chief of police

17:52

of a neighboring town. And

17:54

they basically bring him in because he's got the

17:56

right certifications basically to administer this stress test that

17:58

Captain Urban doesn't have. But they go

18:00

in one room, Cindy and Captain Urban go

18:02

on the other side of the mirror, they

18:04

take their seats where they can indeed see

18:06

Anthony and Chief Vonn. But they

18:09

can't hear anything.

18:11

And what they can't hear turns out

18:14

to be critical. But

18:16

thankfully, it was at least recorded, so

18:18

we do know exactly what goes down.

18:21

And Chief Vonn starts with Anthony's

18:23

Miranda rights, which again, he's 12. And

18:28

you guys, it doesn't take long for this interview

18:30

to just get gross. I

18:32

don't know how else to describe it, just like,

18:34

gross. And for this to

18:36

make sense, I do have to fill you in on

18:38

kind of the broader social context that we're operating in

18:40

here, because New Philadelphia

18:43

is predominantly a white town,

18:45

like overwhelmingly white. Same

18:47

with local law enforcement. And Anthony's family,

18:49

the Harris's, are not. They're black. One

18:51

of the few black families in the

18:54

area. Britta actually found this

18:56

excerpt from a 2014 American Psychological

18:58

Association press release that I thought was

19:00

really interesting. It's about the adultification of

19:02

black male children. Would you just read

19:04

this one thing for me real quick?

19:07

Yeah, it says black males as young

19:09

as 10, quote, may not be viewed

19:11

in the same light of childhood innocence

19:14

as their white peers, but are instead

19:16

more likely to be mistaken as older,

19:18

be perceived as guilty and face police

19:20

violence if accused of a crime. So

19:22

that's, again, broader social context. That's something

19:25

that's already happening across the

19:27

board. But to complicate this

19:29

even more, Anthony is

19:31

really tall for his age, like really tall.

19:33

He's almost six feet at 12. So

19:37

he's already going to seem older

19:39

than most 12-year-olds without accounting for

19:41

any kind of racial bias. Right.

19:43

So that's the scene. Six-foot-tall black

19:45

12-year-old Anthony seated across the table

19:48

from an older white chief bond

19:50

with Captain Urban and Cindy watching

19:52

on, but unable to hear a

19:54

word. Now, before the

19:56

voice stress test can be conducted, it's

19:58

standard and... Is it considered

20:00

important for the investigator to establish a

20:03

rapport with the person that they're interviewing?

20:06

Although, I mean, I guess, is it? Because

20:08

I think these tests have been proven to

20:10

be super unreliable under any circumstances, but like...

20:13

I was going to say, I've been side-dining this since

20:15

you were like, oh yeah, Chief Von has the right

20:17

certifications. I'm like, for what? Like, bet you did. Science?

20:19

I'm sorry, show me. But even at protocol

20:22

for this thing out the window, because

20:24

Chief Von kind of just jumps right

20:26

into interrogation mode. He doesn't seem to

20:29

have much use for niceties. And

20:31

he just asks Anthony straight up if he killed

20:33

Devin, and Anthony says, no. And I

20:36

think they go back and forth for

20:38

a bit, but Anthony stands firm. So

20:40

next, Chief Von tries some faux empathy.

20:42

You know, I can only help

20:45

you if you're honest. Like, you didn't mean

20:47

for this to happen. Things just got out

20:49

of hand. But Anthony

20:51

still doesn't budge. He insists that he

20:53

had nothing to do with Devin's death.

20:56

And it is here, if you

20:58

ask me, where this already derailed

21:00

train goes up in full flames.

21:03

Because of all the places that he

21:06

could take this interview, Chief Von goes

21:08

straight to racial grievance. 2020

21:11

has audio of the interview and Chief Von

21:13

says, quote, Anthony, a lot

21:15

of African-Americans have a lot of hate built

21:17

up over the years, and it's because of

21:20

what we did to you. He

21:22

goes on to say, quote, I know that

21:24

people react different ways. And there are certain

21:26

things that trigger everybody, end quote.

21:29

And like, that's his setup. And then he

21:32

goes on to dislike, make

21:34

up his own theory, suggesting that

21:36

maybe Devin had called Anthony a

21:38

racial slur, and then he killed

21:40

her out of anger. But Anthony

21:42

still doesn't budge, even as Chief Von

21:45

keeps turning up the heat. Until

21:48

that is, he does. Because

21:51

a scared, isolated, inexperienced

21:53

kid can only withstand

21:55

so much pressure, so

21:57

much gaslighting. isolated,

22:00

inexperienced kid in an unfamiliar

22:02

environment without their parent being

22:04

confronted by an authority figure.

22:07

That authority figure that they've been

22:09

taught to respect and trust without

22:11

question always. And this is when

22:13

he starts to waver, when

22:15

he starts to agree with Chief Vaughn,

22:17

just a little. Okay, maybe

22:20

he did stab her in the woods and

22:23

then, you know, he'd be asked, well, how

22:25

many times more than once, maybe five

22:27

or six, which is an important question because

22:29

Devin was stabbed repeatedly seven times in all.

22:32

But Anthony doesn't know the right answer and

22:34

he just kind of stammers in response.

22:37

So Chief Vaughn volunteers that maybe

22:39

it was just once or twice. Anthony says,

22:41

quote, probably just one.

22:44

Yeah, probably. He doesn't

22:46

know because he didn't do it. There

22:48

are a lot of probabilities in this

22:50

short interrogation. He also answers

22:52

probably a little when Chief Vaughn asks him

22:55

if the pocket knife he supposedly stabbed Devin

22:57

with, which you'll recall is nowhere to be

22:59

found, got any blood on it in a

23:01

stabbing. And then he says probably. And

23:04

his response is again, make perfect sense when

23:07

you remember that you're talking about a scared

23:09

confused kid who's trying to give the quote

23:11

unquote right answers, but wants to

23:13

hedge his bets in case he's wrong. But

23:16

this obvious uncertainty doesn't bother Chief

23:18

Vaughn. Here's actually an audio

23:20

clip of that interaction. Again, it's from this 2020

23:23

episode, which is where we're getting all the audio

23:25

clips that you'll hear and fair

23:27

warning. The audio quality isn't the best. But

23:30

you stabbed her in the lunch. Did

23:33

you say yes or no? No.

23:36

No. No. No.

23:39

No. No.

23:41

No. I know that was a little tough

23:43

to make out, but basically Chief Vaughn is like, yeah, yeah, but you

23:45

did stab her, right? Yes or no. And Anthony's

23:47

response was quote. Yes. Wait,

23:49

no. I mean, yes, I'm just nervous

23:51

now. And you can hear

23:53

that confusion and anxiety in his

23:56

voice. So Chief Vaughn asks

23:58

him if he can write out a. statement,

24:00

and Anthony says that he'll try.

24:03

And when he asks if Anthony has any questions, he's

24:05

only got one. If

24:12

you couldn't quite hear that, Anthony's question was, can

24:15

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the love of home. As

27:02

soon as Cindy walks into that

27:05

room, he just crumbles. The

27:07

brave face that he'd been trying to put

27:09

on just vanishes and in its place comes

27:12

a river of tears. You

27:14

try me to tell her? How do I? I

27:18

don't know. If

27:21

I did it, I would have done it,

27:23

but I think it would have come. What

27:27

Anthony says in response to his mom is,

27:29

quote, I didn't do, he

27:31

wants me, I don't know. If

27:35

I did it, I would have done it, but

27:37

I didn't do it. But he said

27:39

I did. And look, Brit,

27:41

you and I are six and a half

27:43

years deep by this point. I don't think

27:45

there's anyone out there who doesn't understand how

27:47

a false confession happens. I think there are

27:50

probably some of you who are like, I

27:52

would never. And it's true, maybe you wouldn't.

27:54

Like go ahead, clutch your pearls. It's easy to

27:56

say with your headphones on in the comfort of

27:59

your own space, not. under any kind of

28:01

threat. But to say that

28:03

there's no way that this kid

28:05

was particularly susceptible when Chief

28:07

Vaughn is out here implying to him that if

28:09

he just hurry up and confess, he could get

28:11

the heck out of here, go home where it's

28:13

warm and safe and full of the people he

28:15

loves most who love him most. I

28:17

mean, this kid is scared and he wants to go home.

28:20

But even though you get it and

28:23

I get it and the crime junkies

28:25

get it, the idea of this, of

28:27

a confession that wasn't at all based

28:29

in reality is largely a foreign

28:31

concept in 1998, especially to the general public. Like

28:36

I know there are some scholars and academics

28:39

who are catching on to how frequent false

28:41

confessions are happening, but the broader public, it's

28:44

not even on their radar. Even Cindy

28:46

doesn't know about this. So

28:48

she's like demanding Anthony tell her the

28:50

truth and she asks him point blank

28:52

if he killed Devin. And when

28:55

he says no, which he'll end up reiterating

28:57

some 20 times her response is

28:59

borderline disbelief. Did

29:02

you catch that? Like when she

29:04

asked why he would have

29:20

confessed to something he didn't do, he just

29:22

says the questions were too hard. He's

29:25

a kid. Now

29:28

this leaves Captain Urban with a big

29:30

decision to make. The voice

29:32

stress test is off the table at

29:35

this point. And truthfully, who needs it

29:37

when you've got a confession, but

29:39

he's still got to decide what to do with Anthony, whether

29:41

or not to let him go home with his mom. Because

29:44

I mean, the reality is this quote

29:46

unquote confession is basically all they've got

29:48

by way of evidence. So

29:50

he decides he doesn't want to make this decision in a

29:53

silo, I guess he decides to pull

29:55

in the district attorney, a woman named

29:57

Amanda Spies, though at that time she was going

29:59

to by Amanda Spee's Bornhorst, but

30:02

she eventually drops the Bornhorst, as I'm going

30:04

to for clarity's sake. But

30:06

whatever may be giving Captain Urban

30:09

some sense of pause apparently

30:11

doesn't have the same effect on

30:13

Spee's. Because she's like, lock

30:15

him up. He just confessed to murder, the end.

30:18

And I think it's important to hear

30:20

these players in their own words, especially

30:22

Anthony's. So I'm going to play another

30:24

clip from the 2020 episode on this

30:26

case. Talking to 2020 as an

30:29

adult, Anthony says this. That

30:31

day was just such a bad day. The

30:33

mother and I were together one last time.

30:36

And we were crying. And she's

30:38

not more, you know, on her arms

30:40

over here asking to go home. Yeah.

30:43

Oh my goodness. That one hurt. Oh

30:45

God, I heard. This

30:48

is this is heartbreaking. This is

30:50

awful to listen to. Yeah. And

30:52

I honestly think that Cindy carries

30:55

a lot of mom guilt over

30:57

this whole thing. Undeserved clearly. But

31:00

she's the one who drilled that respect

31:02

for authority into him. That police were

31:04

the good guys. Period. End of story.

31:07

Even more directly, she's the one who

31:09

agreed for him to take this boy

31:11

stress test, which he was never given.

31:13

Right. And let's be clear. The

31:15

whole deal was sold to Cindy as a

31:17

way to clear her son, her son's plural

31:19

of suspicion, but it backfired.

31:23

So Anthony is led off, devastated

31:25

to a detention facility. And the

31:27

very next day he appears before

31:29

a probate judge, this woman named

31:31

Linda A. Kate, where he is

31:33

officially charged with juvenile delinquency by

31:35

reason of murder. And as

31:38

you've undoubtedly picked up on by now, there

31:40

aren't many things to feel good about in this

31:42

story. But if there is

31:44

one teensy tiny barely there sliver

31:46

of a silver lining, it's

31:48

that in Ohio in 1998, kids under the age

31:52

of 14 can't be tried as

31:54

adults. And if they're convicted, they

31:56

can only be confined in a

31:59

juvenile facility. until they turned 21. The

32:02

slimmest of silver linings. Yeah. I mean,

32:04

to a 12-year-old, that's still

32:06

a lifetime. A hundred percent.

32:09

Now Judge Kate rules that Anthony has

32:11

to remain in custody until his trial,

32:13

which is scheduled to start in late

32:15

September. And before all you legal

32:17

experts start sliding into our DMs, quick note. Since

32:20

this is a juvenile proceeding, it's technically called

32:22

a hearing instead of a trial. But

32:25

most of the reporting calls it a trial.

32:27

Like that's effectively what it is. So I

32:29

will do the same. And

32:31

it is here where another one of

32:33

those capeless heroes that you mentioned earlier

32:36

enters the frame. A fearless, young, assistant

32:38

public defender named Taryn Hale. Taryn

32:41

jumps into this case with both

32:43

feet and starts naturally with the

32:45

most obvious move, requesting that Anthony's

32:48

supposed confession be thrown out. And

32:51

he's honestly optimistic that his request is going to

32:53

be granted. So as

32:55

Anthony's trial approaches, the NAACP asks this

32:57

guy named George Forbes, who is the

33:00

president of the Cleveland chapter, to review

33:02

Anthony's file and see if

33:04

they should maybe get involved. So

33:06

in mid-September, George, who's a practicing attorney

33:08

and a colleague named Dennis Leconte, do

33:11

step in as co-counsel for the defense.

33:13

And I want to be clear here, this

33:16

is not out of concern for Taryn's competence

33:18

or commitment to Anthony's case. George

33:20

even tells a reporter in Frankston

33:22

that Taryn's doing a great job.

33:24

But Taryn is white and in

33:26

a case with such insidious racial

33:28

undertones. And overtones.

33:31

And overtones. They decide it

33:33

can only benefit Anthony to have someone with

33:35

George's life and legal experience on his team.

33:38

But here's what's wild. Like in the

33:40

days leading up to this trial, Judge

33:43

Kate abruptly cancels it, citing incomplete information

33:45

sharing between the prosecution and the defense.

33:48

But again, tiny silver lining, she grants

33:50

a request for Anthony to be released

33:52

to home confinement until his trial, which

33:55

gets rescheduled for January 25th, 1999. suppression

34:00

requests being the first item of business. That's

34:02

the request they did to suppress his confession.

34:05

And the significance of that request can't be

34:07

overstated. Like a decision in

34:09

either direction as far as Anthony's supposed

34:12

confessions go is basically game over. So

34:15

his team brings in an all-star lineup of

34:17

experts to testify to all the reasons that

34:20

that confession should be considered coerced, at

34:22

worst, and just plain inadmissible at best.

34:25

But at the conclusion of the suppression

34:27

hearing, Judge Kay goes rogue a little.

34:30

She says that the trial's gonna start

34:32

the next day before she even rules

34:34

on the admissibility of Anthony's statements. Wait,

34:37

wait. Yeah, you know, you're, you're, you should

34:39

be confused. Like she can hear

34:41

the whole trial and then decide later if

34:43

evidence she heard counts. Or she can like

34:45

decide in the middle. It's weird, right? Like

34:47

it, this kind of thing straight up wouldn't

34:49

fly in a jury trial, but this is

34:51

a juvenile court proceeding and there is no

34:53

jury. So Judge Kay is just

34:56

the arbiter of everything. And

34:58

as Janet Frankston reports in the Akron Beacon Journal,

35:00

Judge Kay says that she is more than capable

35:02

of sorting all of it out herself. And

35:05

what she decides is that the

35:08

recorded July 2nd statement from

35:10

Anthony to Captain Urban, like

35:12

that's out, but the recorded

35:14

July 15th statements to Chief

35:17

Vaughn are in, as

35:19

is the July 2nd search of the Harris

35:21

apartment. Okay, that just kind of feels like

35:23

she's throwing the defense a bone by dismissing

35:26

one of those three very big things. Yeah,

35:28

and it's not even like, the thing she dismisses

35:30

isn't even the confession. The July 2nd one was

35:32

him, when Urban asked him like, oh,

35:35

you thought she was a nasty girl. And he's

35:37

like, yeah. And like his stories weren't quite lining

35:39

up all the way because he's 12 and doesn't

35:41

remember what he did a couple of days ago.

35:43

But to your point, like all the important stuff,

35:45

the stuff that matters to the prosecution, the

35:48

confession is from the July 15th interview

35:50

anyway. So whatever, throw him a bone, take the

35:52

July 2nd one out. But

35:55

I digress. So at Anthony's trial, one

35:57

of the prosecution's star witnesses is a

35:59

DNA analyst. with Selmark Diagnostics

36:01

named Glenn A. Hall. And

36:04

I know what everyone's thinking, well, you

36:06

didn't tell us there was DNA evidence. Yeah. And

36:09

well, that's because we don't have

36:11

DNA evidence, or at least not

36:13

any that helps clarify anything. You

36:16

see, what Glenn testifies to is

36:19

that his lab had tested these

36:21

teensy tiny little red spots, presumably

36:23

blood from Anthony's shirt and shorts

36:25

the day that Devon was killed.

36:28

And I'm talking like two or

36:30

three little spots. And

36:32

the one on the T-shirt was nearly

36:35

as small as the size of a

36:37

pen mark, heety bitty. And

36:39

so what Glenn is testifying to is

36:41

that the mark on the shorts was

36:43

conclusively determined to contain human DNA that

36:46

did not belong to Devon. I'm

36:48

guessing Anthony couldn't be included or excluded

36:51

because there's like no reporting on that,

36:54

or they didn't test that. But

36:56

the spot on the T-shirt was trickier. That

36:58

one was a mix of human DNA

37:00

and then something or some things else,

37:02

like might not even be blood. And

37:05

so when one of Anthony's lawyers asked if it could

37:08

be, for example, a mixture of sweat

37:10

and tomato juice, Glenn's like, yeah,

37:12

totally possible. And Glenn

37:14

couldn't exclude either Anthony or

37:17

Devon as being contributors of

37:19

that. In fact, he says

37:21

about 51.1% of the world's white population could

37:25

have contributed to that spot. So

37:27

as for the percentage of black people who

37:29

could have contributed, he wasn't asked that question.

37:32

Which feels like an oversight. Yeah, to say

37:34

the least, right? And if it

37:36

gets brought up on cross, it doesn't make it into any of

37:38

the reporting. Now, the rest

37:40

of the prosecution's case is about

37:43

as clarifying as the DNA evidence,

37:46

with Anthony's attorneys objecting to nearly

37:48

everything introduced by the prosecution. And

37:51

believe me when I say that they're

37:53

in a tricky spot with this. They

37:55

can see exactly where this thing is

37:58

likely headed to. To the conclusion. of

38:00

a child for a murder he didn't

38:02

commit, and they want to

38:05

preserve everything they can to be

38:07

raised on appeal, including what they

38:09

see as bias by Judge Kate.

38:11

I mean, they even make not one but two

38:14

requests to the Ohio Supreme Court to have

38:16

her removed from this case, which, to be

38:18

clear, is like a massive FU, like a

38:20

message that lawyers generally hesitate to send to

38:22

a judge in the middle of a trial.

38:25

But when it's the defense's turn to

38:27

present its case, they call a whole

38:29

bunch of volunteer searchers, some from Saturday

38:32

night, some from Sunday, all

38:34

of whom say that there is

38:36

absolutely no way Devin's body had

38:38

been where it was found the

38:40

whole time, which the prostitution,

38:42

like their version of events, they swear it

38:44

was, like that's their story. And

38:47

this is an important point because

38:49

Anthony is all but alibied for

38:51

just about every single minute past

38:53

2 p.m. on Saturday the 27th.

38:56

Do they have an alternative theory? Like,

38:59

I know they don't have to prove anything, but-

39:02

Oh, they don't have to prove or present

39:04

an alternate theory, like that you just have

39:06

to raise reasonable doubt, but they

39:08

have one, and they do present it.

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40:50

one of the searchers out that day looking

40:52

for Devin, this woman

40:54

named Nancy, she is called

40:56

to the stand and she testifies to a bizarre encounter she

40:58

had just

41:00

before Devin's body was found. She

41:04

said she was searching that wooded area when she crossed paths

41:06

with a super creepy man. What

41:10

made him creepy, you ask? Well,

41:12

he sure didn't look like a volunteer search. He

41:14

was a very, very creepy man. He was a

41:16

very creepy man, you ask? Well, he sure didn't

41:18

look like a volunteer searcher in his

41:21

long sleeve flannel shirt buttoned up tight around his

41:23

neck and wrists like it's not the end of

41:25

June in Ohio. And

41:27

missing from that long sleeve flannel shirt was

41:30

the distinctive sticker that everyone else was

41:32

wearing to identify themselves as part

41:34

of the search team. Which

41:36

by the way, I've never been part of a big search like this. I

41:39

didn't know that was a thing. I probably would have never thought of it.

41:42

Like, of course, everyone out here in the woods is looking

41:44

for the same missing girl, who maybe just abducted a little

41:46

girl is going to show up here in the woods and

41:48

like we need to distinguish ourselves from

41:50

him. Yet here we are. So

41:53

apparently this guy deliberately avoided making eye

41:55

contact with Nancy. And look, that could

41:57

be chopped up to shyness or neurodivergent.

42:00

or a bazillion other things. But

42:02

like, put it all together, you know what I mean?

42:04

Like, when you got the, you're dressed kind of weird.

42:06

When it walks like a duck and quacks like a

42:09

duck and looks like a duck. It's a duck, yeah.

42:11

Oh, Angie did mention a random beige car

42:14

that she noticed around the same time, one

42:17

that had its trunk open and

42:19

a blanket visible inside, which

42:21

she said that was weird too. And

42:24

there were other searchers who saw this man, by

42:26

the way. It's not just Nancy, and they were

42:28

all equally put off by him, which

42:31

again, they all testify about openly.

42:34

And then the defense also calls a famed

42:36

forensic pathologist. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

42:38

whoa, whoa. What? You can't just move

42:40

on like that. Who

42:42

is this guy? Well, so this is the

42:45

thing. Again, the alternate theory is that someone

42:47

else did it. They don't have to prove

42:49

exactly who. And it's because Nancy, the other

42:51

searchers, they don't know who this

42:53

guy was. I mean, and she didn't stop to

42:55

like, you know, get his info

42:57

like she was on a mission more or less. And

43:00

don't worry, I'm not like moving on completely. I'm sticking with

43:03

this car, like maybe this guy's car TBD. But

43:06

anyway, so they end up calling this pathologist named

43:08

Charles Petty, who comes to the stand and he

43:10

says, look, this little girl's

43:12

body was clearly moved. And

43:15

the liver mortis proves it. And liver mortis,

43:18

again, is blood pooling in the lowest parts

43:20

of a lifeless body. That

43:22

had set in and was clearly present on

43:24

Devin's right side. You could even see impressions

43:26

of the things that she had been laying

43:29

on top of on her right side. The

43:32

reason this is important is because when she was found,

43:34

she was found laying on her left side. Ergo,

43:37

she had been there the whole time. Her

43:39

liver mortis should have been on the left side.

43:41

So she had to have been moved,

43:44

which means there's also a good chance that a

43:46

vehicle was involved. And again, we

43:48

already know that the searchers had been scouring those woods both

43:50

the night she went

43:53

missing and the next day. So

43:55

what the defense is trying to show is that she

43:58

was dumped there close to the time she

44:00

was found, you've got this car which she

44:02

might have been moved in, and then you

44:04

have this guy who seemed right in the

44:06

area where she ends up being found who

44:08

nobody can identify who's like creepy AF. But

44:11

all of this, again, it's a very good alternative

44:13

when you're looking for reasonable doubt, but

44:15

this is where I do have to leave you hanging

44:17

because they aren't able to

44:20

identify this guy. They present

44:22

him as a potential alternative. And

44:25

they also present the fact that police never

44:27

even tried to find out who this guy

44:29

was. Did they do anything to try

44:31

and prove Anthony didn't do it? I mean, I guess

44:34

yes, but like what could they do to do that

44:37

because there was nothing that proved he did? It's not

44:39

even like you can go up against like expert for

44:41

expert or witness to witness. Like they they're going off

44:44

the confession. Right. Or like

44:46

argue against physical, like hard physical evidence. Yeah, you

44:48

can't do that. Because there isn't any. And there's

44:50

no there's no witnesses saying they saw him do

44:52

something. I mean, there's it is just his confession.

44:56

Now in a move that blinds

44:58

sides Anthony and his legal team,

45:00

Judge Kate, prior to rendering her

45:02

verdict, orders that Anthony be

45:04

taken back into custody while she deliberates.

45:07

Like he didn't do anything wrong. He

45:09

didn't violate the terms of his home

45:12

confinement or behave disrespectfully in court. She

45:14

just suddenly decides it's in his best

45:16

interests. So yet again,

45:18

Cindy has to watch her devastated child

45:20

being led away by strangers with just

45:23

tears streaming down his

45:25

face. And that

45:27

might explain why Anthony is largely

45:29

unemotional when Judge Kate delivers her

45:32

verdict five days later. Guilty.

45:35

And she sentences Anthony to the maximum sentence

45:37

confinement in a youth facility until the age

45:39

of 21. In

45:42

response, he summons the courage to boldly

45:44

declare in court six simple words. I

45:47

did not commit this crime. In

45:50

November of 1999, a team of respected

45:52

appellate attorneys file a 60 page

45:54

appeal on Anthony's behalf and

45:56

they raise so many

45:59

reasons. reasons that the conviction should be

46:01

set aside. But a big

46:03

one has to do with the lack of physical evidence

46:06

to corroborate the crime that the prosecution

46:08

said was committed. According

46:10

to his appeal, quote, when Anthony

46:12

emerged from the wooded area, which

46:14

if he were the killer would

46:16

have been mere minutes after the

46:18

stabbing, he immediately encountered Devon's mother,

46:20

with whom he spent the next

46:22

several hours helping look for Devon.

46:25

End quote. Right. So

46:27

where was all the blood? Bingo. All

46:29

they found were those few pinpricks worth of

46:32

something on Anthony's clothes. TBD maybe

46:34

not even blood. The appellate

46:36

judges are clearly a bit confounded by

46:38

the whole thing during oral arguments in March

46:41

of 2000. Some

46:43

even bring up their own children at

46:45

Anthony's age, hinting just how inappropriate it

46:47

would have been for them to be

46:50

interrogated without a parent present. And

46:52

so on June 7th of 2000, the clouds finally break.

46:56

The sun starts peeking through and

46:59

Anthony's lawyers get noticed that his

47:01

conviction has been set aside. His

47:04

July 15th statements clearly

47:06

obtained under coercive conditions

47:09

by a child lacking the ability to understand

47:11

or waive his Miranda rights never

47:13

should have been admitted into evidence. Leading

47:16

up to that, Anthony had been confined at

47:18

a facility called the Indian River School. I

47:21

feel like school is a bit of a misnomer here.

47:24

Your feelings would be correct. I mean, it's a prison for

47:26

children. But you know, the one thing

47:29

he's had to look forward to each month of

47:31

that confinement, probably one of the only things he

47:33

had to look forward to monthly

47:35

visits from Taren Hale who had

47:38

stuck by his side through every

47:40

last torturous step. And

47:42

understand the true victims of this ordeal

47:44

are the children, Devin and Anthony. But

47:47

the devastation of this rocked more lives

47:50

than just theirs, more than just their

47:52

families lives too. Now

47:54

Anthony is released on June

47:56

8th and despite later battling

47:58

substance use disorder. even surviving

48:00

a suicide attempt, he eventually

48:03

goes on to join the Marines.

48:05

Although not on the first try. Because

48:08

motherf***ing Spies badmouthes him to the recruiters

48:11

and convinces them to reject his application.

48:13

But back down. I know, so he

48:15

actually had to file suit in federal

48:18

court in 2003. Which

48:20

if you thought we were done, hang on. This

48:23

is when his lawyers finally uncover a

48:25

ton of Brady violations. Of course. But

48:27

basically all this info that pointed to

48:30

alternate suspects that was never

48:32

given to them. Like apparently

48:34

there was this friendly neighbor who was a registered

48:36

sex offender. One whose

48:38

front door a couple of

48:40

scent tracking dogs practically led

48:42

directly to. This

48:44

guy was apparently interviewed and passed a polygraph. And

48:46

it's worth noting because I don't think I've mentioned

48:49

it yet. But authorities do not

48:51

believe Devin was sexually assaulted. So

48:53

maybe because of that or maybe because of Anthony doesn't

48:55

seem like they even paid much attention to this guy.

48:58

But okay, put him aside. There's also Devin's

49:01

father who allegedly had a history of domestic

49:03

violence and was not thrilled about his child

49:05

support obligations. And you might have noticed I

49:07

haven't mentioned him being involved in the volunteer

49:10

search efforts. It's possible he

49:12

joined on Sunday, but I know on Saturday

49:14

evening he told Lori that he just couldn't

49:16

make it. He was too drunk. And

49:19

I've seen kind of contradictory things about whether

49:21

or not he had a solid alibi. So

49:24

it had to have been good enough for investigators to cross

49:26

him off their list. However much stock

49:28

you want to put in that. And

49:30

then there was Lori's ex-boyfriend, a guy

49:32

named Jamie, and he is a

49:35

real charmer. A convicted

49:37

felon who was legally prohibited

49:39

from being anywhere near Devin

49:41

specifically because he had kidnapped

49:43

her and held her hostage for

49:45

three days the previous summer. Are

49:48

you kidding me? He was never even

49:50

charged for that. And it

49:52

doesn't seem like they cared much about

49:54

him once they got focused on Anthony,

49:56

even though this Jamie dude was

49:59

known to have been. violent toward Devon,

50:01

including beating her with a belt, and

50:03

he might have also reached out to Laurie

50:06

in the weeks before Devon was killed, asking

50:08

if maybe they could think about getting back

50:10

together. What they end up

50:12

finding out is that Captain Urban basically outsourced

50:14

the work on this guy who was living

50:16

in Columbus. So when the

50:18

Columbus PD indicated that he had an alibi,

50:21

Urban's like, okay, say no more. Never

50:23

even speaks to him. Just crosses

50:25

him off the list. Even

50:27

freaking though, Devon

50:30

was known to be afraid of this

50:32

guy. And investigators at some point found

50:34

a pack of kids playing cards in

50:36

his possession for no discernible

50:39

reason. Oh, and that

50:41

alibi? It was given by someone who

50:43

gave a false name and false

50:46

social security number. Cool, cool, cool. And

50:48

they also find out that Laurie mentioned

50:50

seeing his gold Acura, or at least

50:52

one just like it, in the

50:55

area the day that Devon disappeared. Which

50:57

as a side note, I would venture

50:59

to say that a gold Acura and

51:01

a beige car, probably pretty

51:03

interchangeable in witness statements. Right?

51:06

And listen, even beyond that, I

51:08

mean, there were some things that should have

51:10

raised some red flags even in Devon's own

51:12

home. I mean, her older

51:14

brother, who remember, was ruled out by a

51:17

voice stress test. He

51:19

had some serious violence and aggression

51:21

issues, which caused him to frequently

51:23

run into trouble at school. Without

51:26

saying too much, there was at least one

51:28

act of extreme cruelty toward an animal that

51:30

we know of. And then

51:32

there was Laurie herself. I mean, it seems that

51:34

she was really struggling with her mental health in

51:36

the weeks leading up to Devon's death. She

51:39

had even recently called a suicide crisis line saying

51:41

that she was afraid that she might hurt herself

51:43

and her kids. But she was crossed

51:46

off the list early on too. So

51:48

the point is, I don't know if any

51:51

one of these people had anything to do

51:53

with Devon's death, but there

51:56

were a lot of people that should

51:58

have been explored and a lot of

52:00

information there that would have been

52:02

extremely helpful in Anthony's first trial

52:05

had they had that information. Yeah.

52:07

So it is no surprise that

52:09

the law enforcement agencies settle fairly

52:11

quickly and three unnamed officers

52:14

even send Anthony an apology

52:17

letter-ish. Do

52:19

you want to read an excerpt of this? I mean,

52:21

my eyes are already rolling, but okay. I got this

52:23

from the Akron Beacon

52:25

Journal, Peter Krause, in his article.

52:28

Okay. So they wrote, quote, we

52:31

acknowledge that there is no probable cause to demonstrate that

52:33

you were responsible for the 1998 death of Devin Duniver.

52:35

We regret that you were wrongfully

52:38

convicted of this crime. We apologize

52:40

to you and your family for the events

52:43

that led to your conviction. End quote.

52:45

So sincere, right? Yawn.

52:48

Okay. Sure. Thanks. Something

52:50

that was like clearly crafted by attorneys, but

52:53

at least they acknowledged that Anthony never should have

52:55

been charged. Amanda Spies, of course,

52:57

put up more of a fight, but

52:59

when the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals

53:01

finds that, quote, any reasonable

53:04

prosecutor in Spies' position would have

53:06

known after listening to the tape

53:08

of the confession that it

53:10

was involuntary as a matter of

53:12

law and thus untrustworthy. Then

53:14

she too decides to settle. So

53:17

Anthony's total recovery is about 3.7

53:19

million. Today, Anthony

53:22

is officially listed in the

53:24

National Registry of Exonerations, which

53:26

is an incredible joint project between the

53:29

Newkirk Center for Science and Society at

53:31

UC Irvine and the Michigan State University

53:33

College of Law and the University of

53:35

Michigan Law School, which just

53:37

so happens to be sponsored by a certain

53:39

little Midwestern podcast company you might've heard of.

53:42

Huh. How weird. I know. What can I

53:44

say? Chuck approves. Audio Chuck

53:46

just made another donation in Anthony's honor,

53:49

and you know we're going to drop the link where you can

53:51

donate in the show notes as well. So

53:54

do that thing you do, Crime Junkies,

53:56

because this is incredible work that they're

53:58

doing. And actually, Anthony's

54:00

story is now taught in at

54:03

least one law school as a

54:05

case study in juvenile false confessions.

54:08

And listen, I would be remiss if I

54:10

didn't mention Devon and her family, who put

54:12

all of their faith into law enforcement and

54:15

have been left without justice for a beautiful

54:17

little girl who was brutally killed before

54:19

she even got to the first grade. Lori

54:22

hasn't said much publicly since Anthony's conviction,

54:25

but we do know that she was

54:27

devastated when it was thrown out. Her

54:29

sister Katrina told reporters for the Akron

54:31

Beacon Journal that the family still firmly

54:34

believed in his guilt and that Lori

54:36

felt like he had gotten away with

54:38

murder. Now, I don't know if

54:40

their opinions have evolved since then,

54:43

but you can mark that down as

54:45

just another tragedy within this tragedy. Lori

54:48

had every right to believe the

54:50

NPPD. And even

54:52

just her feeling as though her daughter's

54:54

murderer got off scot-free is heartbreaking, even

54:56

if the reality is that it was

54:58

never that guy. Well, and the reality

55:00

is it's not solved. Whoever did this

55:03

is getting away with it. In this

55:05

case, it just riddled with unanswered questions.

55:07

Who was that man in the woods?

55:10

Is there any chance that the beige

55:12

car seen by a searcher with its

55:14

trunk open was actually Jamie's gold Acura,

55:16

like you suggested? Is there

55:18

any DNA to test? Maybe

55:20

some that wasn't detectable back in 1998. Is

55:23

anyone even trying? And

55:27

the honest to God truth is, I don't know. A

55:30

special prosecutor I know looked into this case from 2005

55:32

to 2007 and eventually determined that

55:37

there wasn't enough to pursue a prosecution.

55:40

But I know he never got in touch with any of the

55:42

searchers who to me

55:44

sure as heck feel like they've got some relevant

55:46

insight. And I know that

55:48

Devin isn't listed in the Ohio Attorney General's

55:51

Unsolved Homicide database. But

55:53

that doesn't mean that there isn't any hope

55:55

of her case actually being solved someday. So

55:58

if you have any information on the... murder

56:00

of Devin Duniver in June

56:02

of 1998 in New Philadelphia,

56:04

Ohio, please reach out to

56:06

the NPPD. You can call them

56:08

at 330-343-4488. And if you or anyone you know struggles with

56:16

suicidal ideation, please know

56:18

that help is available. You can reach out

56:20

to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988

56:22

or chat with them at 988lifeline.org. You

56:42

can find all the source material for

56:44

this episode on our website, crimejunkypodcast.com. And

56:46

you can follow us on Instagram at

56:48

Crime Junkie Podcast. We'll be back next

56:50

week with a brand new episode. Crime

57:28

Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So

57:31

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