0:00

It is time for a March Birthday.

0:02

Shout Outs: Not to make your birth

0:04

month all about me, but March is

0:06

the month I became a mom. My

0:08

oldest is about to turn twenty five.

0:10

It's kind of wild how my own

0:12

age doesn't make me feel old, but

0:14

when it I say his A h

0:16

it does even though I was on

0:18

the younger side when he was born.

0:20

It definitely dates me a bit that

0:22

I have a twenty five year old

0:24

as of the end of this month.

0:26

but I'll tell him happy Birthday in

0:28

person. Let me get. To. My March

0:30

Patron Birthday Shout Outs! I want

0:33

to see a very happy Birthday

0:35

to Zoe and Julianne who is

0:37

having a big birthday this year!

0:39

Kathleen Yeah, Seal Arena, Madeline, Alex

0:41

and Pam. I. Hope this

0:43

next trip around the sun

0:45

is your brightest yet filled

0:48

with a love and happiness

0:50

and plenty A birthday cake

0:52

So to all of May

0:54

March Pitcher on Birthdays Happy

0:56

Birthday! Literary.

1:09

Curtis told her husband that she was

1:11

going to the library to study, but

1:13

instead went to another man's house. What

1:15

happened after that exposed more secrets that

1:17

anyone had anticipated. I'm totally and welcome

1:19

to Crime Lines. Hello

1:29

and welcome to Crime Lines. Will back.

1:31

If you've listened to before I just

1:33

wanna give a quick reminder that in

1:35

the show notes you can find information

1:37

on as then some going to be

1:40

at. This year I will be at

1:42

the True Crime Podcast Festival in Denver

1:44

which is in July and the Berkshire

1:46

Podcast Festival in October in North Adams,

1:48

Massachusetts. As. It stands. I think those

1:51

are the only two events I'm going to be

1:53

doing this year. In. The links for tickets

1:55

are in the show Notes: I. Do

1:57

wanna point out that The Berkshire

1:59

Fest. Has an amazing presale pricing

2:01

going on right now, so if

2:04

you get those tickets before April

2:06

first, you can take advantage of

2:08

the low price. Before.

2:10

We start the episode, I do want to

2:12

give a quick content warning. I don't usually

2:14

do these because you listen to my so

2:16

you generally know what it's about. But when

2:19

I talk about things that don't normally talk

2:21

about were in detail, I don't normally talk

2:23

about a deal, like to give a content

2:25

warning. There. Will be the mention

2:27

of sexual abuse of teens in this

2:29

episode. And a bit

2:31

more candid discussion on sex

2:33

than I usually have to

2:35

have in my episodes. If

2:38

you listen with your teen, maybe have

2:40

a quick listen first to see that

2:42

this episode is appropriate. Let's.

2:45

Go ahead and get started with today's

2:47

episode which is about the trees. Jones

2:49

Curtis who grew up in North Carolina.

2:52

After finishing high school, he attended an

2:54

all female H B C You and

2:56

Greens Borough called Senate College. Literary.

2:58

Said been such a daddy's girl

3:00

growing up a better dad told

3:02

the So when murder Lies that

3:04

he cried like a baby when

3:06

they dropped her off at college.

3:09

But. For whatever reason, the school wasn't

3:11

really the right sit for a

3:14

latrine sushi. Transferred to Wake County

3:16

Tech. Now. That school a sister

3:18

to your community college, so she was

3:20

only there for about another year before

3:22

it was time to move on to

3:24

pursue her four year degree at North

3:26

Carolina Central University. Which. Is located

3:29

in Durham. She. Was majoring

3:31

in Accounting and she was looking

3:33

forward to graduating in getting her

3:35

career started. She was a very

3:37

goals oriented person. Literary.

3:39

Was Add and Si Cu for less than

3:41

a year when she showed up at work

3:44

one day with a ring on her finger.

3:46

This. Would have been in April of

3:48

two thousand and seven. She had been

3:50

dating another student named Aaron, courteous and

3:53

without any sand fair and without many

3:55

people knowing they eloped when she was

3:57

a months shy of turning twenty one.

4:00

Her family didn't really know Darren

4:02

that well at that point and they were

4:04

hurt that Latrice had it talk to them

4:06

first. Her father, a little

4:08

old fashioned, told when murder lies that

4:10

it also bothered him that Darren didn't

4:13

come to him to let him know

4:15

that he intended to marry Latrice or

4:17

to ask for her hand or anything

4:19

like that. But

4:21

the two were in love and moved into

4:23

an apartment in Raleigh. They were

4:25

both a juggling school and work and

4:28

according to neighbors, they never heard fighting

4:30

from the apartment but neither

4:32

seemed particularly happy when they saw

4:34

them. They certainly didn't come

4:37

across as newlyweds to them. That

4:40

could just be because they didn't have a lot

4:42

of time together since they were both so busy.

4:45

Latrice worked in the HR department at

4:47

a local Sears about 15 minutes from

4:49

their apartment but she had to drive 45

4:52

minutes each way to get to and from

4:54

classes. Darren's schedule was

4:56

pretty similar. They both woke up early

4:58

to go to school and or work

5:01

and then they often had to study or

5:03

attend school events late into the evening hours.

5:06

Tuesday, January 29, 2008,

5:08

nine months into

5:11

their marriage looked like it was going

5:13

to be another day of not really

5:15

seeing each other. 21-year-old

5:18

Latrice had the day off of work but

5:20

she had a full day of classes. She

5:22

left the house around 7.15 in

5:25

the morning shortly before Darren headed out

5:27

to work himself. Around

5:29

5pm, Darren called Latrice and said that he

5:31

needed to be at a meeting around 7

5:33

so he wasn't going to drive all the

5:35

way home in between. And

5:37

that was fine with her because she was

5:39

going to the library to study after class

5:42

anyway. Darren attended his meeting

5:44

and at 8.30 he drove home. When

5:47

he got there, Latrice wasn't back yet but he

5:50

didn't really expect her to be. Around

5:52

10, Latrice called and said she was heading

5:54

home from the library and asked if Darren

5:56

had eaten yet. He said he

5:58

had so she said he had. she was just

6:00

going to stop and grab something to eat

6:02

for herself on her way home. When

6:06

Daren went to bed around 11 30 he

6:08

had expected Latrice would have made it home

6:10

by then but it wasn't

6:12

alarming to him that she wasn't there. He

6:15

thought maybe when she said she was getting food

6:17

on the way home she meant that she was

6:19

stopping at her parents house. And

6:22

that is such a college kid way to think

6:24

isn't it? Grabbing food could mean a

6:26

drive-through but it could also mean raiding

6:28

mom and dad's pantry. If

6:31

Latrice did stop at her parents house it

6:33

would take her longer because she would be

6:35

visiting with them and chatting. So

6:37

since he had to get up at 6 30

6:39

in the morning Daren decided not to wait up

6:42

any longer and headed to bed. His

6:44

alarm went off as planned at 6 30 and the

6:47

first thing he noticed was that Latrice

6:49

wasn't in bed next to him like

6:51

he expected. It looked like

6:53

she hadn't come home at all the night before. He

6:56

called her cell phone and it went to voicemail.

6:59

He decided to go ahead and get ready

7:01

for work. If Latrice had stopped at her

7:03

parents house maybe she spent the night there

7:05

if it was getting late. He

7:07

figured he'd just call her again when he got to

7:09

work. Daren left around 7

7:11

15 or 7 30 as usual. As he drove to work

7:13

he noticed a

7:18

white car pulled over on the highway but

7:20

he didn't really think much of it. He

7:22

then ended up stuck in traffic for what he

7:24

assumed was a car crash. When

7:27

he got to the scene of where

7:29

all the traffic was stopped he saw

7:31

that there was a blue tarp in

7:34

the grass which he assumed correctly was

7:36

covering a body. As Daren kept

7:38

going down the road things

7:40

started processing. Latrice hadn't

7:42

come home the night before and she

7:44

drove a white car like the one

7:47

he saw pulled over. Daren

7:49

decided to get off the highway and head

7:51

back home to start calling around looking for

7:53

Latrice. He Called her cell

7:55

phone again and got no answer. So

7:57

he called her brother and her father.

8:00

Neither of whom had seen or heard

8:02

from the trees. He thought the next

8:04

most likely explanation would be that the

8:06

tree so that the hospital with a

8:08

friend who he knew was pregnant. If

8:10

this were a had gone into labor, Le

8:12

Trees would not hesitate to drop everything to

8:14

be there for her. The.

8:16

Problem was daring didn't have that

8:18

friends number. So. He powered up

8:21

an old cell of military says to try

8:23

to get the number off of her contact

8:25

list, but it wasn't there. So. He

8:27

decided not to wait any longer and he

8:29

called the police to report her missing at

8:31

eight thirty in the morning. After

8:34

that, Deron thought he could check

8:36

their cell phone records online to

8:38

find the friends number and maybe

8:40

he would see who else litter

8:42

he was calling of the night

8:44

before. Maybe. That would help him

8:46

figure out where she went. So

8:48

he put those up online at about

8:50

eight fifty any saw a bunch of

8:52

calls to a number he didn't recognize.

8:55

All. Of these calls were from the night before

8:57

and some of them were just a couple of

8:59

minutes long. So. Deron. Dialed.

9:02

The number. The. Phone belong

9:04

to Stephen Randolph according to daring.

9:06

Stephen answered and there and asked

9:08

him how he knew the trees.

9:11

Stephen. To the answer that but

9:13

rather asked his literary was okay.

9:16

Darien. Didn't know if she was okay.

9:18

He didn't know where she was so he

9:20

hung up and called the state troopers. He.

9:23

Asked if there had been or rak

9:25

or something involving the trees. But.

9:27

They didn't have anything on record. Still,

9:30

Unable to seek the blue tarp and the

9:33

white part derringer of that back out to

9:35

the scene and pulled over next to the

9:37

car. He. Looked closer at it

9:39

and realized it was in. Fact

9:41

Literary says. He.

9:44

Opened it up and notice that the

9:46

center console is broken. And

9:48

he saw that there was blood on

9:50

the driver side, both on the seat.

9:52

He and the door. So

9:55

he closed the door. He got a picture of

9:57

the trees from his car and he walked over

9:59

to where the pool. Are. They.

10:01

Stopped him from getting too close but he showed

10:03

them the picture and said his wife was missing

10:06

and our car was down the highway. And

10:08

he just wanted them to tell

10:10

him that it wasn't her under

10:13

that tarp. Unfortunately,

10:15

They couldn't tell him that. The.

10:17

Officer saw the picture and redirected their

10:20

into a detective. Who. Had him sit

10:22

in a patrol car. It was

10:24

Chilean sea amp rating on and off

10:26

that morning so this was for his

10:28

comfort. He was not in any way

10:30

being detained. They. Did

10:32

ask their and if he was willing

10:34

to go to the station to answer

10:36

some more questions. Which. He was

10:38

more than willing to do. He.

10:40

Told them at the movements of him and

10:43

the trees from the day before leading up

10:45

to one her body was found. And

10:47

this helped fill in a few things for investigators

10:49

a bit, but there were still a big gap

10:51

in the timeline. During. Last book

10:54

till the trees at ten pm the

10:56

night before. He. Didn't know where

10:58

on the path from the college to

11:00

their apartment she was. But. He

11:02

knew she was definitely in the car because

11:04

he could hear the radio playing. Then.

11:07

Around seven fifteen in the morning

11:09

at motorists started calling Nine One

11:11

One to report a body near

11:13

an exit sign on I Five.

11:16

But. Between those two points on the

11:18

timeline with a major question mark. What?

11:21

They did know from the scene was that the

11:23

trees had have been in a rack and she

11:25

hadn't been hit by a car. She.

11:27

Had been stabbed according to

11:29

the autopsy around forty times.

11:32

And she was dragged to where she

11:34

was found. Her. Attacker may have

11:36

been trying to get her into the

11:38

woods but didn't make it that far

11:40

from the highway before just leaving her.

11:43

Litter. He said been dead for hours

11:45

by the time she was found and people

11:47

had been driving by her body all that

11:50

time. But. Because of how far it

11:52

was from the road, no one actually

11:54

saw her until the sun came up.

11:57

The. Police also learned something else an

11:59

autopsy was was held back initially.

12:02

When. Her body was found, there

12:04

was a condom inside her vagina

12:06

and her pants were under and.

12:09

They. Couldn't tell at that point if

12:11

the sex had been consensual or

12:13

not. There. Were also

12:15

to pieces of duct tape found along

12:18

the side of the highway. They.

12:20

Weren't signs that litter he says hands

12:22

or feet had been bound, but perhaps

12:24

this was a failed attempt at trying

12:26

to bind her. Being.

12:28

The husband obviously there was a person

12:30

of interest and they photographed his hands,

12:33

his arms, his legs, as well as

12:35

his bare chest. But. He didn't

12:37

have any marks on him. The.

12:39

Investigators found daring to

12:42

be credible. Even. Know

12:44

his alibi was that he was home alone

12:46

sleeping. It. Was really his

12:48

responses to the questions and

12:50

his consistency in telling a story

12:53

that made them believe him?

12:55

Litres. His family, however, did not

12:57

rule him out quite so easily.

12:59

Her father said on that interview

13:01

with When Murder Allies that I

13:03

mentioned earlier that daring did not

13:06

reach out to them to talk

13:08

to them. Or. To tell them

13:10

what was going on. They. Found

13:12

out what happened to Le Trees when

13:14

they started making their own calls. And.

13:16

They found that disrespectful.

13:19

Beyond. That litter he says father

13:21

didn't understand how dare in went

13:23

to bed when the trees wasn't

13:25

home. Is. It was him and

13:28

his wife called that ten saying that she

13:30

was on her way home. But. She

13:32

hadn't made it there by eleven thirty.

13:34

he would be out looking for her.

13:36

Just. Slugging and going to bed just

13:38

didn't make sense to him. But.

13:41

Will the trees his family didn't

13:43

know was that in the afternoon

13:45

of that first day of the

13:47

investigation. The. Investigators were given

13:50

a different person to look

13:52

into. While a lot

13:54

of the nine one one calls coming

13:56

in that morning went to the Wake

13:58

County Sheriff. Cell. People called

14:00

the State Highway Patrol to report a body

14:02

on the side of the road. After

14:05

the highway Patrol confirmed that the Sheriff's

14:07

department was handling the case, One.

14:09

Investigator with the highway Patrol

14:12

had an idea. She.

14:14

Went back through the highway patrol's call

14:16

logs from that night to see if

14:18

there were any notes of suspicious activity

14:20

in the area. And. They

14:22

found something pretty big. Around

14:25

one thirty in the morning, a trooper

14:27

driving down I five forty saw a

14:29

minivan on the side of the road.

14:32

The. Hazards were flashing so he pulled over

14:34

behind it to see if he could

14:36

help. When. He approached the

14:38

driver's side. He realized no one was

14:40

in the car. He walked

14:43

to the front to see if there was

14:45

any front end damage like it's the driver

14:47

had hit a deer something. There.

14:49

Was no damage so he looked back

14:51

in the driver's side. He.

14:53

Realized that the window was rolled halfway

14:56

down, which stood out since it had

14:58

been raining on and off that night.

15:01

In. Fact: The windshield wipers. We're going.

15:03

So. It was raining hard enough to

15:06

leave the wipers on. so why have

15:08

the window open? The. Trooper realize

15:10

the door was unlocked the when he

15:12

opened in the car started digging because

15:14

the keys were still in the ignition.

15:17

Suspecting. The vehicle may have

15:19

been stolen and dumped. He called in

15:21

the license plate. It came

15:23

back to a man named Robert Reeves

15:25

who lived in Durham and it had

15:27

not at least not to that point

15:30

been reported stolen. It. Still

15:32

seems strange. So the trooper sent a

15:34

message to another trooper asking if he

15:36

would leave his own vehicle on the

15:38

side of the highway with the window

15:40

roll down, the door unlocked, and the

15:42

key in the ignition. In.

15:45

The end though there was really nothing

15:47

he could do about it except for

15:49

poor in abandoned vehicle on the highway.

15:52

He. Cleared the scene at one fifty

15:54

three am having not seen any one

15:56

and then he had it out on

15:58

another call. The trooper had

16:00

seen a white car on the opposite

16:03

side of the highway, but he did

16:05

not run. That played. It's. Believe

16:07

though that that may have been lottery

16:09

says car. A few

16:11

hours later, around five fifteen am. So

16:13

while it was still dark, The.

16:15

Same trooper pass the area again of

16:18

that the minivan was gone. The

16:20

mini van had been seen near where

16:23

Literary Says body had been found, so

16:25

obviously the police wanted to speak with

16:27

the owner Robert Reads. There.

16:29

Is one report saying that they

16:31

spoke to him that day or

16:33

the next, but most reporting said

16:35

that they spoke to him two

16:37

days later on February. first. But.

16:40

It wasn't is Robert they talk to.

16:42

They also spoke with his roommate. Who.

16:45

Was Steve and Randolph. The.

16:47

Same man whose phone number showed

16:49

up on. The tree says phone

16:51

records. Stephen. Actually

16:53

came forward himself. He.

16:55

Attended school with the trees and heard

16:58

from a teacher that a student

17:00

Latrine Curtis had died. He. Was

17:02

very upset so he left class and

17:04

went home. When. He told his

17:07

roommate Robert about at Roberts said that

17:09

he actually recorded the news from the

17:11

other night on his Ti vo. And.

17:13

They had talked about the incident on

17:15

their. After season

17:17

watched. The segments he was still

17:19

pretty upset may be even more upset.

17:22

And he needed to talk to someone

17:24

See went to the school counselor and

17:26

then he was directed to the campus

17:29

police who then directed him to the

17:31

Sheriff's Department. Stephen. Told

17:33

them that he knew where Latrine was

17:35

the night before she died. She wasn't

17:37

at the library like she told her

17:39

husband she was with him. luxuries,

17:42

And season had met several months before

17:44

in the fall of two thousand and

17:46

seven Ad and Si cu. He.

17:49

Was a basketball player and a student hoping to

17:51

make it to the and be a. And

17:53

season and nice silly told

17:55

the police that he amla

17:57

trees were just friends. Finally

18:00

admitted that they had slept together two

18:02

or three times, including on the night

18:04

before she was found dead. Season.

18:07

And the trees had spent most of

18:09

the last few months just as friends

18:12

who hung out sometimes. This. Was

18:14

a a consistent romantic relationship

18:16

or in ongoing affair. And.

18:18

Though Stephen knew she was married, he

18:21

thought that Darien and Latrine were separated

18:23

the first time they slept together. Military.

18:26

Soldier has been. She was heading to

18:28

the library when she was done with

18:30

classes on January twenty ninth. She actually

18:32

went to Stevens House. She out there

18:34

around seven thirty or eight and she

18:37

called him from outside to come open

18:39

the door and letter and. Stevens.

18:41

Said they were just hanging out in his room

18:43

and they did end up having sex, but it

18:45

sounds like it wasn't planned. After

18:48

words, they realized that the

18:50

condom Stephen was wearing had

18:52

com os and it was

18:54

inside of Le Trees. She.

18:57

Was having trouble getting it out he

18:59

and wasn't really sure what to do

19:02

about it, particularly as she was about

19:04

to go home to her husband's. As

19:07

actually without being able to get it

19:09

out she decided she just head home.

19:12

Stephen. Walked her to our car and

19:14

according to him he asked her to tax

19:16

when she made it back to her apartment.

19:19

She. Had a forty minute drive home. And it

19:21

was late so we wanted to make sure she

19:23

got back safely. Steven. And

19:25

got into his own car and drove

19:27

over to his girlfriend Velma house to

19:30

hang out with her and some friends.

19:33

Stephen. Had done developments house a

19:35

little after ten. After.

19:37

He was there for a while. He

19:39

realized that Luxuries hadn't texted to let

19:41

him know that sit at home safely.

19:43

So he texted and just asked if

19:45

she was okay. This. Was around

19:47

eleven pm. She. Texted back

19:49

that she was fine. About

20:05

an hour later, Le Treat called

20:07

C then three times at twelve

20:10

O five, twelve o Six and

20:12

twelve twenty. Based. On

20:14

the paintings from the cell tower, all

20:16

of these calls were made from the

20:18

tree as phone near where her body

20:20

was found. We. Do not know where

20:23

stevens phone was at the time because those things

20:25

were not requested and will get into that leader.

20:28

Stephen. Told the police about the

20:30

trees. wanted to talk to him about

20:32

their relationship on the twelve o six

20:34

call. See. Told him

20:36

she wanted to be more than friends

20:38

and she wanted to know if he

20:41

felt the same way. He. Told

20:43

that she still had a husband

20:45

she had to deal with before

20:47

they could move ahead with anything.

20:49

And that you'd rather talk to her about

20:51

it face to face. Steven then

20:54

hung up the phone with her and went

20:56

back to hanging out with his friends. Then

20:59

Latrine called him again at twelve

21:01

twenty, but when he answered no

21:03

one was there. He. Said

21:05

he left developments house by about

21:07

one twenty. or one twenty five.

21:10

Which. Would put him home by one

21:12

or thirty. He told the

21:14

police. He then armed the home alarm system

21:16

and went to bed. Not.

21:18

Only is his timeline backed up

21:20

by a friend who left the

21:23

same time Steven did. It was

21:25

backed up by the alarm system.

21:27

Someone. Arm did at one twenty

21:29

eight am. Lake Stevens said he

21:31

had done. Season. Said

21:34

when he woke up for class in the morning,

21:36

he saw that the trees had called him around

21:38

two am, but he didn't hear it because he

21:40

was asleep. And she didn't

21:42

leave a voicemail. It

21:44

would turn out that Steven wasn't the

21:47

only one. Latrine called around two am

21:49

or someone with her phone made these

21:51

calls. Literary. Had been

21:53

playing phone tag with her friend Kimberly

21:55

that day and at around two am,

21:57

Kimberly woke up to her phone ringing.

22:00

She. Answered it but no one was there.

22:03

She. Could hear what sounded like

22:05

someone walking along gravel and

22:07

she said the trees. Literary.

22:10

Is a couple of times. She.

22:12

Eventually hung up assuming we're trees. Hadn't

22:14

meant to call her. But. She

22:16

was also not sure which she was

22:18

here and. Why? Was the

22:20

trees walking along gravel at two in

22:23

the morning on a week nights? So.

22:25

Well, there was anything super

22:28

urgent like hearing screams. It

22:30

also left her feeling uneasy.

22:33

But. Back to Stephen. He. Said he

22:35

was on campus when Deron called him

22:37

asking about the trees. He had

22:39

never talk to their and before but he

22:41

knew this was a luxury. says husband because

22:43

he introduced himself as there and Curtis. Which.

22:46

Meant that Stephen was being careful

22:48

in what he said. Steven.

22:51

Said that there and mentioned that Led

22:53

trees hadn't come home and that was

22:55

a bit of a red flag for

22:57

him. He. Didn't know how dare

22:59

and even.his phone number and he figured

23:01

Le Trees may be in some trouble

23:04

with her husband. So. He decided

23:06

he was just gonna lay low and

23:08

not call her for the next couple

23:10

of days and just wait for her

23:12

to make contact with. To

23:15

the investigators, it did seem awfully

23:17

coincidental that the minivan scene at

23:19

near the crime scene belong to

23:21

the roommate of someone who treats

23:23

was having an affair with. Sir

23:26

ended up a bit higher than

23:28

Deron on the person of interest

23:30

list. But. Stevens in and

23:32

own the minivan. So the investigators also

23:34

spoke with the owner of it, forty

23:36

three year old pastor Robert Reeves. It.

23:39

Would help the keys move forward

23:41

if he could put the keys

23:43

to the vehicle in Steven's hand.

23:46

Rubber. Told the police that on

23:48

January twenty ninth, he had been

23:50

at church from around eight pm

23:52

until Eleven Or Eleven thirty. And.

23:54

After that he was in for the

23:57

night. He. Had no idea how

23:59

his vehicle with see at one thirty in

24:01

the morning along the highway. He.

24:03

Confirmed that season did have

24:05

spare keys to the money

24:08

than. He. And he had used

24:10

it before when his own car was being

24:12

repaired. Rapper. Didn't give

24:14

Stephen permission to take it that night.

24:17

But. He wouldn't have really needed to ask

24:19

if Robert was asleep and see the needed

24:21

to use it. He. Could just use

24:23

it. Rubber. Did not the

24:25

police know that literally since season we're in

24:27

a sexual relationship and that it was a

24:30

relationship. Latrine. Wanted to be

24:32

more serious than it was. He.

24:34

Also told the police that he had found a

24:36

gun under Stevens Pillow at one point. And.

24:38

That Stephen had a nice collection.

24:42

Like. The investigators had done with a literary

24:44

says has been there and. They.

24:46

Asked to check Stephen I'm

24:48

Robert for any injuries. Their.

24:50

Arms and legs and bear chests

24:53

were photographed and Stephen had nothing

24:55

of note. Robber. Had

24:57

however what is described as a

24:59

gouge on his right hand. As.

25:02

Well as an abrasion on his

25:04

right leg below the knee, Almost.

25:07

Like he kneeled down on something

25:09

ross. These injuries were

25:11

not well heeled and they looked pretty

25:13

new. Roberts said they were from

25:15

when he and Stephen had moved a desk

25:18

up from the basement. But. Stephen

25:20

said Robert hadn't gotten injured when

25:22

they moved it. Those

25:24

marks and the fact that his

25:26

van was at the crime scene

25:28

where enough for Roberts name to

25:30

get added to the person of

25:32

interest list alongside their and Stephen.

25:35

More. Of an investigation would need to be

25:37

done into all three men and their movements.

25:40

Their. His alibi was that he was sleeping,

25:42

which is hard to prove. But. What

25:45

were the odds that Robert Reeves

25:47

mini van was near the crime

25:49

scene for some unrelated reason? Slim

25:51

to none, and that effectively ruled

25:53

that there and out. They.

25:55

Were looking at any one who had

25:57

access to that minivan? As.

25:59

Far. Even a Robert when see been out.

26:01

A pretty good alibi. He said he was at

26:04

a friend's house until he got home around one

26:06

thirty. And the alarm system pass

26:08

up that someone had armed to the

26:10

alarm at one Twenty eight. The.

26:12

Minivan was then seen by

26:14

the trooper at One Thirty

26:16

Six. So. How could see

26:19

that? Have come home armed to the

26:21

alarm before leaving again and then make

26:23

it somehow? Twenty five miles to the

26:25

crime scene and just eight minutes. Highly.

26:27

Unlikely he could do that. Now.

26:30

It is possible Steven wasn't the one

26:32

who arms the alarm at One Twenty

26:34

Eight. But. Then how would he have

26:36

known it was armed around one thirty? is

26:38

he wasn't the one who did it. And

26:40

he was twenty five miles away. So.

26:43

We then have to look at Roberts

26:45

movements and try to confirm those. Like.

26:48

Daring. He said he was home at the

26:50

time but unlike their in there was someone

26:52

else in the house. Robert.

26:54

Sister Will a May was renting one of

26:57

the rooms from him. When. See

26:59

talked to the police. She said she

27:01

came home from church around eight forty

27:03

five or nine pm. And. Stephen

27:05

in the trees were there but her

27:07

brother Robert was not. She. Went

27:09

up to her room to watch some television

27:11

before going to bed. She. Heard

27:14

Steven in the trees the leave but

27:16

then she didn't hear anything else. She.

27:18

Said she went to bed around twelve or

27:20

twelve thirty, which if this was accurate. Than.

27:23

Robert was incorrect on the time he

27:25

got home, which he said was eleven

27:27

or eleven thirty. With. The

27:29

layout of the house. It would

27:31

have been very unlikely that someone

27:33

key man without will amaze hearing.

27:35

But. Maybe he got home a little later

27:37

than he said it may be. Will a

27:39

may fall asleep a little earlier than she

27:41

thought and they really did just miss each

27:43

other. The. Only guaranteed accurate

27:46

keeper of time we have in this

27:48

case. Is. That alarm system.

27:51

When. Season came home at one

27:53

twenty eight. He didn't have to disarm

27:55

the alarm, so if will, A May

27:57

and Robert were both home and asleep.

28:00

There are one thought to set up before bad.

28:02

Season. Then armed it and went to

28:04

bed himself. Then at two

28:06

thirty in the morning, someone triggered. The

28:09

alarm. This. Was an hour after

28:11

the trooper had seen the minivan. Whoever.

28:13

Set off the alarm at disarmed it. Four

28:16

seconds later and we know who did it.

28:18

While. Anyone can arm and

28:20

alarm system disarming. it requires

28:23

a toad obviously. Well. This

28:25

system had multiple codes for the

28:27

occupants of the house. And.

28:29

The only person who knew the master. Code

28:32

was Robert Breeds. The

28:35

disarming of the alarm at about two

28:37

thirty was done using that mass code.

28:40

Robber. Said he was home all night.

28:42

so why was he needing to disarm the

28:44

alarm at that Stephen headset? Due.

28:46

To his injuries and statements to the

28:49

police, plus his vehicle being at the

28:51

crime scene. plus the records from the

28:53

alarm system on February second two thousand

28:55

and eight. Robert. Reeves

28:57

was arrested and charged with

29:00

literary says murder. So.

29:02

Robberies had managed to make it to the

29:04

top of the suspect list, but what in

29:06

the world could his motive have said? He.

29:09

Had met with trees maybe two times ever

29:12

and he had no connection to her. The.

29:14

Motive was an obvious to the

29:16

investigators and it would take an

29:18

extensive look at Roberts background. For.

29:21

Them to come up with something.

29:24

So. Let's go ahead and talk about Robert

29:26

Wreaths and how the police came to

29:28

their conclusion of his possible motive in

29:30

this murder. Robber. Had

29:32

grown up in ambitious young man and

29:34

a religious one. He became a baptist

29:37

minister in the nineteen eighties, and while

29:39

attending college he was a pastor of

29:41

a small church in South Carolina. He

29:43

was there for a number of years,

29:46

And. This is where that content warning from

29:48

the top about sexual assault he and abuse

29:51

is going to kick in. In.

29:53

Nineteen Eighty Seven. Robert Less the

29:55

Church after he was arrested and

29:58

charged with the sex offense. After.

30:00

A fourteen year old boy accused

30:03

Robert Assad amazing him at nice

30:05

points. According to a

30:07

two thousand and two Newsday article

30:09

called Sounding The Alarm. Robber.

30:11

Pleaded guilty to third degree sexual

30:14

assault in early nineteen. Eighty Eight.

30:17

He. Was sentenced to seven years behind

30:19

bars of which he served about three

30:21

and a half, Being paroled in Nineteen

30:23

Ninety One. Much. Of the

30:26

information on what robber did next comes from

30:28

that same news they article which is in

30:30

my sources. After his

30:32

release from prison, Robert was

30:35

ordered to continue counseling for

30:37

sex offenders which did not

30:39

do. Instead, he moved to

30:41

Brooklyn New York where he had family

30:43

and he tried to start over with

30:45

a clean slate. There. Were no

30:48

sex offender registries at the time. So

30:50

moving from South Carolina to New York.

30:52

Definitely. Gets a lot of people from

30:55

knowing about his history. In.

30:57

Nineteen Eighty Four, However, South Carolina

30:59

figured out that Robert Pattinson complying

31:01

with his pearl conditions and he

31:04

was arrested and extradited back. In.

31:06

The And know he was just charged with a

31:08

fine and he was allowed to return to New

31:11

York. According to New

31:13

Say, rubber got married and had two

31:15

children in Nineteen Ninety Six. He returns

31:17

are preaching at a small Baptist church

31:19

called Cedar of Lebanon in New York.

31:22

But. The good times we're not to

31:24

last. His wife a learned about his

31:27

past conviction in Nineteen Ninety Nine and

31:29

horrified, as anyone would be, she packed

31:31

up the kids and filed for divorce.

31:34

The. Divorce was a contentious one

31:36

and Robert was not coping

31:39

well. He was arrested twice

31:41

the following year. In

31:43

June for Petty Larceny after he

31:45

stole luggage from a department store

31:47

and get in August when he

31:49

threatened and assaulted A. Rubber.

31:51

Pleaded down on both charges, but

31:54

Cedar of Lebanon was not pleased.

31:57

They. Wrote him a letter in October

31:59

of two thousand telling that he had

32:01

embarrass the church and they asked him

32:03

to resign. He. Resisted

32:05

so they had to get

32:07

in a involved. To. Basically

32:10

push him out. Robert.

32:12

Then decided to start his own turrets

32:15

a just three blocks down the road

32:17

in January of two thousand and Two

32:19

and he named it Cedar International Fellowship.

32:21

And he took some of the congregation with

32:24

him. It. Was in May

32:26

of two thousand and two that things

32:28

sort of blew up on Robert. Well.

32:31

As divorces dragging on news, they had

32:33

been alerted that he was talking about

32:35

setting up a daycare center at the

32:38

church. Rubber denied it when

32:40

he was called for comment, but multiple

32:42

church members were aware that this was

32:44

his plan. Though. It never would

32:46

have gotten off the ground. New York would

32:48

have run a background check on him and

32:50

they would have denied any application immediately as

32:52

they have even gotten that far. But.

32:55

It didn't because some people who heard

32:57

about the day care plans went to

32:59

the media with their accusations against Robert.

33:02

Accusations of impropriety

33:04

with teenagers. About

33:07

half a dozen boys ages thirteen

33:09

to nineteen. Reported. That Robert

33:11

would make sexually suggestive comments to

33:14

them. Including asking is

33:16

they'd ever work for a

33:18

male escort service. And.

33:20

Inviting them over to compare and

33:23

measure the size of their penises.

33:26

It's. Unclear if any young men went

33:28

to Roberts house, but none went to

33:30

the police to report a crime at

33:32

the time. Rubber. Did

33:34

told Newsday that the rumors and accusations

33:36

were false and insinuated that they were

33:38

an attempt to smear him ahead of

33:41

his divorce. But. I want

33:43

you to keep in mind some

33:45

of the specific accusations against him

33:47

because they're going to come back

33:49

up. The. Rapper denied it.

33:51

The accusations were enough to have them

33:54

path up again and move back down

33:56

to South Carolina where in July of

33:58

two thousand till he. The arrested

34:01

again. According to a seventeen

34:03

year old boy, a man in a car

34:05

pulled alongside him and asked him if he

34:07

needed a job. The. Boy said yes

34:09

and got into Roberts car. Robert.

34:12

Then started talking to him about

34:14

sex and allegedly put his hand

34:16

down the young man's pants. The

34:18

T and managed to get himself out of the

34:20

car and noted the plate number. He. Called

34:23

and reported the sexual assault to the

34:25

police and the car was traced back

34:27

to Robert Reeves. Robert.

34:29

Was thirty seven years old at

34:31

that point and charged with assault

34:33

with intent to commit criminal sexual

34:36

conduct. It's. Not clear exactly what

34:38

happened in this case, accepted didn't and in a

34:40

conviction and it looks like the charges were dropped

34:42

at some point. Robert. Than

34:44

packed up and must again. this

34:46

time settling in North Carolina. From.

34:49

July two thousand and six until January

34:52

of two thousand and seven. Robert worked

34:54

as a clinical research associate for a

34:56

company. He. Was fired up

34:59

for making nearly sixty five hundred

35:01

dollars an unauthorized purchases with the

35:03

company credit card. They.

35:05

Fired him, but they did not

35:07

press criminal charges. They just wanted

35:10

their money back. So they sued

35:12

Robert who was ordered to pay

35:14

back the sixty five hundred plus

35:17

attorney season plus interest plus punitive

35:19

damages. In the end, a

35:21

total he was ordered to pay back was

35:23

an eighteen thousand. Dollars. At.

35:26

That time Robert was on

35:28

probation for a previous charge

35:31

related to a stolen gift

35:33

card. And a weren't had already

35:35

been taken out for his arrest in August

35:37

of two thousand and six. Four. Probation

35:40

violations. But. He

35:42

was never arrested. His. p I

35:44

would eventually resign after they learned robber

35:46

hadn't really been supervised pretty much at

35:49

all. Though. Robert had

35:51

found a full time job in

35:53

a clinical research she given up

35:55

on preaching. Based. On everyone

35:57

who ever worked with him

36:00

he will the talented speaker

36:02

who knew the bible backwards

36:04

and forwards. He. Could

36:06

have deep discussions on doctor and

36:08

and he was well respected by

36:10

those who didn't know. He was

36:13

also repeatedly committing crimes. That.

36:15

Are in exactly biblical. Rubber.

36:18

Ended up starting a small

36:20

evangelical church with a few

36:22

members located in a strip

36:25

mall in Goldsboro, North Carolina.

36:27

And. When Roberts name first came up

36:30

to literary says family. They. Thought

36:32

maybe she knew him through his turret

36:34

because she was dealing with questions, essays,

36:37

and god. But. That's because they

36:39

didn't know she was also struggling with

36:41

her marriage and they didn't know about

36:43

Steve Randolph. Stephen.

36:45

Robert Were a bit of an odd

36:48

couple as far as roommates go, being

36:50

about twenty years apart in age and

36:52

very different personality. They. Had met

36:54

in the spring of two thousand and seven at

36:57

some point and robber asked see than what he

36:59

did for work. Season. Was

37:01

trying to juggle school in basketball

37:03

while working a job that would

37:05

pay enough for his living expenses.

37:08

So. He mentioned to Robert that he

37:10

was actually looking for something that was

37:12

flexible and paid well. Rubber.

37:14

To see that about how he was a research

37:16

associate and had a job for him is he

37:19

wanted it. This. Would have

37:21

been after Robert was fired from his previous

37:23

job so it's unclear what he was actually

37:25

do it. Let's. You met up

37:27

again at the mall to discuss the job

37:29

and during this time is Steven was about

37:32

to be evicted from his apartment because he

37:34

couldn't afford it. He ended up couchsurfing with

37:36

friends for a while until robber offered that

37:39

he could come live with him. He.

37:41

Could have the basement space as a

37:43

little apartment for just three hundred dollars

37:45

a month. And he could also help

37:47

Robert out here and there around his

37:49

school schedule. Rubber. Did need

37:51

some help with physical tasks because of the

37:54

left arm had been severely injured when he

37:56

lived in New York. According. To

37:58

Robert, he was stabbed in a mud

38:00

and it left his left arm partially

38:03

paralyzed. It. Was mostly

38:05

affecting things like his grip.

38:08

Sir. Stephen thought this was a great set

38:10

up. He'd have a bit of a

38:12

job well also getting a huge discount

38:14

on rent. A few weeks

38:16

after season moved in literary came over to

38:18

hang out with him and the to slept

38:21

together. After she lived rubber

38:23

asked him if he had sex with

38:25

the trees and Steven said yes. Robert.

38:28

Center in the conversation to

38:30

ask if Steven had ever

38:32

heard about male escort services.

38:34

Know. I'm specifically using the words a

38:37

male Escort because those are the

38:39

words Robert used and we're going

38:41

to see a pattern. Steven.

38:43

Took Robber. All he knew was

38:45

what he learned from the movie

38:48

Deuce Bigelow Mail Gigolo And for

38:50

those unacquainted with that particular cinematic

38:52

masterpiece. It's about a man

38:54

who, through a series of unfortunate

38:56

events, Ended. Up working as a

38:58

male escort to raise money quickly. And.

39:00

As all of the humor in edgy

39:02

fourteen year old would want. In.

39:05

That movie though the Gigolo is

39:07

only half email clients so Robert

39:09

mention to T then that there

39:11

would be a one percent chance

39:13

that he would run into a

39:16

male clients. This. Is not

39:18

a statistically accurate number, but it

39:20

didn't matter because that's not really

39:22

what Robert was asking. This

39:25

was Robert seeing if Steve and

39:27

had room for an encounter with

39:29

a man in his world. Stevens.

39:33

Said that is he got a male

39:35

clients. it would stop right there because

39:37

he was street. So. That

39:39

angle didn't really get robber down the path

39:41

he wanted, so he pivoted. He asked

39:43

see that if he had ever measured

39:45

himself and he said no. Sir.

39:48

Stephen went into the other room

39:50

and measured his penis. He.

39:52

Was still under the impression that this

39:54

was all in the context of them

39:56

talking about the possibility of him being

39:58

a male escort to. Weird man. After

40:01

he came back in the room,

40:03

Roberts said it was important to

40:05

make sure that he was clear

40:08

of sexually transmitted infections and he

40:10

asked to visually exam it. Stevens

40:12

penis. Which. Then happens.

40:14

Robert. Then kept pushing the

40:17

conversation asking is Steven was

40:19

into any freaky stuff. He.

40:21

Gave some examples including Golden

40:23

Showers. Stephen. Said he

40:25

was a into anything other than the

40:27

usual stuff. and then Robert told a

40:30

story about how he was in college

40:32

and another man performed oral sex on

40:34

him and then he suggested Stephen go

40:36

upstairs and shower. After. Having

40:38

had sex with Le Trees. It's

40:41

at this point that Stephen started to catch

40:43

on to what was happening here. And

40:46

we can see this pattern. with what

40:48

the teams in New York said about

40:50

Robert. he would bring up a sexual

40:52

conversation and then he would push to

40:54

find their comfort limits. Talking.

40:56

About them getting paid to have

40:58

sex, talking about measuring penises and

41:00

so on. This. Whole thing

41:02

was a repeat of something robber had

41:05

done before. Robert

41:19

claimed that those words us allies

41:21

coming out of the consensus divorce.

41:23

But here we are years later

41:26

and five hundred miles away and

41:28

the same allegations are coming back

41:30

up. With. Someone else. Stephen.

41:33

Realize that Robert was trying to get

41:35

him comfortable with the idea of oral

41:37

sex with a mad and when he

41:39

suggested that Stephen loss himself, he realized

41:41

it was just one more step closer.

41:44

So. Stephen ended up just leaving the

41:46

house entirely that night. He was too

41:48

uncomfortable to be there any started wondering

41:51

about Robert and his motives. He.

41:53

First went to a friend's house and then he

41:55

went to his cousin's house. His.

41:57

Cousin gave him a hand gun to keep

41:59

him. The room and case rapper

42:01

trade anything forceful on him. When.

42:05

Asked later why he felt threatened

42:07

by Robert Season said it was

42:09

because Robert was a bishop in

42:11

a church that believe homosexuality was

42:14

a sin and he was trying

42:16

to push see into a sexual

42:18

encounter. And. I thought that was

42:20

interesting and I've been thinking about it a

42:22

little bit. Steven. Didn't know

42:25

about Roberts past, so he didn't know

42:27

that Robert was a predator. He

42:29

just thought this was a gay man coming

42:31

onto him. So. It really

42:34

came across as homophobic to me

42:36

at first. But. Then I realized

42:38

the season didn't say it's because he was gay

42:40

or because he came on to me. He said

42:42

it was because. He. Was a hypocrite

42:44

about it and that made season

42:47

concerned about what else Robert would

42:49

do. And then I wondered

42:51

if perhaps there was something unspoken

42:53

that Steven couldn't quite put into

42:55

words that made him recognize Robert

42:57

for who he was. That.

42:59

Feeling of being unsafe. That feeling

43:01

that there is an undercurrent may

43:03

be of violence that you can't

43:06

quite figure out within the dynamic.

43:08

I. Imagine That's a feeling that some of

43:11

you have had in situations where you

43:13

feel like you are in danger, but

43:15

you can't quite put your finger on

43:17

what it is. And. When

43:19

what you're feeling or of said

43:21

feelings. You. Don't necessarily think

43:23

you're an immediate danger, and that's definitely

43:26

how Steven felt. He did return to

43:28

the house and he told Robert that

43:30

there was never going to be anything

43:32

sexual between them. And

43:34

Robert apologized. After.

43:36

That Robert did try to bring up sex

43:39

a couple more times to see then one

43:41

time saying that. Oral. Sex from a

43:43

man doesn't make you gay because how is

43:45

it any different than a woman doing it?

43:48

There. Was an insinuation out one point

43:50

that Stevens rent would be forgiven in

43:52

exchange for an encounter like that. But.

43:55

Steven turned him down and robber backed

43:57

off each time. So.

43:59

What does? The the have to do with Patrice.

44:02

While. The motive they were exploring was

44:04

if this was a case of jealousy.

44:07

Even. As Robert seem to back down

44:09

when the steven rejected his advances. Were.

44:12

Roberts unrequited feelings toward

44:14

Steven stronger than Steven

44:16

thought. The. Theory was

44:18

that Robert claimed to go to

44:21

church that night, but instead parked

44:23

nearby and waited on the trees

44:26

to leave. The. Evidence he didn't

44:28

go to church was that no one, not

44:30

even a sister saw him there. When.

44:32

The truth left at ten. Robert

44:34

followed her. We. Don't know where

44:37

Latrine Winter where she stops along the way,

44:39

but she was definitely taking her time getting

44:41

home. At around midnight, she

44:43

was on the phone talking to Steven

44:45

about their relationship and she had only

44:47

made it about thirty minutes from Stevens

44:50

house based on the cell tower records.

44:52

At. Some point lead trees pulled her

44:54

car over. Maybe she was talking on

44:57

the phone? Maybe. She was going to

44:59

try to get the condom out again. Or. Maybe

45:01

she was forced off the road

45:03

by Robert in his minivan. One

45:06

theory is that as she was parked on the

45:08

side of the road. Robert. Forced

45:10

the driver's door open and started attacking her.

45:13

possibly for striking her on the head. See

45:15

did have a mark on her head like

45:17

she was hit, not heard enough to be

45:19

knocked out by. it may be enough to

45:21

be stones. Another theory was

45:24

that robber.into our car. But why would

45:26

she let this man a virtual stranger

45:28

in the car with her. We.

45:31

Can only speculate. One.

45:33

Thought is that maybe he offered her

45:35

counseling As a Bishop senior, she had

45:37

been with Stephen while being married. Another.

45:40

Is that he does open the door and forced his way

45:42

in. Based. On the amount

45:44

of blood in her car, he and a clump

45:46

of hair that was found in there. It's safe

45:48

to say that at least some of the attack

45:50

occurred while she was in the car. Robert.

45:53

Then dragged her. so the police theory

45:55

goes, attempting to get her into the

45:57

woods. But. The woods where up. A

46:00

bit of an embankment any just could not

46:02

get. Over that far. When. The

46:04

trooper pulled up behind the minivan at

46:06

around one thirty Robert with likely in

46:09

the process of getting rid of evidence.

46:12

After. The trooper cleared the scene and

46:14

last Robert then got into his minivan

46:16

and headed home. Getting there at two

46:18

thirty three. Which. Is when he

46:21

found out that someone had armed the

46:23

alarm system. He. Quickly disarmed it

46:25

using the master code which is

46:27

a code only he used. Five.

46:30

Witnesses from that night would eventually

46:32

come forward. They had all been

46:34

driving down I Five Forty in

46:36

those early hours. At. First,

46:39

the statements were that the minivan and

46:41

lottery says car were ugly close to

46:43

each other. And. Then leader the

46:45

vehicles were seen on opposite sides of

46:47

the highway which is where they were

46:49

when the trooper saw them. So.

46:52

Somewhere in this whole attack they believe Robert

46:54

moved his vehicle so it would not be

46:56

seen at near of the tree. Says. With.

46:59

What the investigators had that was pointing

47:01

to Robert: It wasn't really hard to

47:03

get a search warrant to search the

47:05

home he shared with Stevens. And.

47:08

During the search on the back

47:10

deck of the house, they sound

47:12

a plastic trash can that was

47:14

partially melted. Under it was

47:16

one of those one use. A foil

47:19

turkey pounds. And. When they tested

47:21

it, they found that there was an

47:23

accelerant used and there was burned fabric

47:25

in the pan. The. Only

47:28

distinguishable part of the fabric that

47:30

was left looks like some ribbing

47:32

from assault. Someone.

47:35

Had burned close out there and a clue

47:37

as to who it was was found in

47:39

the house. There. Was a receipt

47:41

and roberts room from the thirtieth which

47:43

is the day Literary says body was

47:45

found. For. The purchase

47:47

of that pants. There.

47:50

Is another reason to believe robber bought the

47:52

piano. Beyond that, the receipt was in his

47:54

room. It was bought at a

47:56

time that Steven could be confirmed to be

47:59

at school and. Robert sister was

48:01

at work. Also, the

48:03

alarm system was disarmed with the

48:05

master code which again is Roberts

48:07

code. Within. A time frame that

48:09

made sense for someone to go to the store

48:11

by the pan and come home. So.

48:14

As I was working on the research

48:16

for this episode, I thought that the

48:19

motive sounded more than a little weak.

48:21

It. Wasn't like robber and see than had

48:24

a relationship and the trees was in

48:26

competition for his affections. Robert.

48:28

Wasn't according to Stephen

48:30

actively pursuing him. After

48:33

the initial incident, they seem to mostly

48:35

move on, with Robert only bringing it

48:38

up a couple more times. So.

48:40

Why would Robert act out against a

48:42

woman Stephen was seeing. What?

48:45

I didn't realize at that point in my

48:47

research was that this did not. Look like

48:49

the first time a rubber had acted

48:51

out again. Stephen and the way men

48:53

he was dating. Season.

48:55

Was at this time actually dating someone

48:58

else Velma, the person whose house he

49:00

went to after latrine last. If

49:02

Stephen was in class he was almost always

49:04

of illness place as it was kind of

49:07

the hangout spot for their group of friends.

49:09

In. Late October two thousand and

49:11

seven Velma started getting some threatening

49:14

calls from a private number. The.

49:16

Calls were threats against T then

49:18

telling her to make sure her

49:20

boyfriend stopped doing whatever he was

49:22

doing or he'd break his legs.

49:24

Ending is basketball career. Season.

49:27

Also got similar calls including one from

49:29

someone who said he hoped Stephen had

49:32

a done. Now. That call came

49:34

the same day Stephen realized the gun he

49:36

kept in his room was missing. Or

49:39

turned out Robert had been in his room

49:41

at Sound The Gone and took it. It.

49:43

Seemed like interesting timing that Stephen got

49:46

that call about having a gone on

49:48

the exact day robber had confiscated it.

49:50

but Stephen didn't know Robert was the

49:52

one who had taken the gun at

49:54

the time, so he didn't immediately connect

49:56

the caught with Robert. Any

49:58

knew it was Roberts more. On the

50:01

call, whoever called him sounded younger.

50:04

Then. On December eleventh, two thousand and seven,

50:06

Stephen went to get in his car to

50:08

go to the Elements House. But. He

50:10

realized he had a flat tire. Who.

50:12

Is able to get to the gas see since you sell

50:14

it and then he went to Delmas. While.

50:17

There he got more calls from a block

50:19

the number but he didn't answer them. When.

50:22

He went to leave Dullness house. He

50:24

found that all four of his tires

50:27

had been slashed. Rubber.

50:29

Called him that night saying that someone

50:31

had been ringing the doorbell and running

50:33

off. Stephen. Felt like he

50:35

was being targeted and didn't want to

50:37

go home city. Spent the night at

50:39

Delmas even though Robert seemed to want

50:41

him to come home. The.

50:43

Next day robber paid have Stevens car

50:46

towed back to the house. But.

50:48

Season didn't have any money to get

50:50

all four tires replaced right away. Robert.

50:53

Was open to paying for it,

50:55

but Stephen wasn't comfortable after he

50:57

had already covered the telling expense.

50:59

So. Instead, he borrowed Roberts minivan for

51:02

the last few days of class

51:04

before he went home to Baltimore

51:06

for his winter break. And

51:08

he was able to get the terrorists fix

51:10

when he returned in January. While.

51:13

Stephen was in Baltimore. Velma got a

51:15

call on December seventeenth that she recorded

51:17

and it was from a man that

51:19

said he had slashed her tires and

51:22

he was sorry. Zellner

51:24

went out to check on her

51:26

car, and her tires had in

51:28

fact been slashed. The.

51:30

Investigators believe that Robert was behind

51:32

this trying to cause issues for

51:34

Steven and Velma. And. They

51:36

believed it because of the cell phone

51:39

records. Robert. Had three

51:41

phone lines, he had his land line,

51:43

he had his a regular cell phone,

51:45

and then he had a second cell

51:48

phone that the police learned was in

51:50

his name, but he had not initially

51:52

told the investigators about it. This

51:55

phone was for private and personal

51:57

things. Again, this is a mostly.

52:00

Closeted gay man. Not just the game and

52:02

but again, Bishop. So. He had

52:04

a second phone that was referred

52:06

to as his fun Phone. On

52:09

December first, the Fun Phone called

52:11

Velma six times and stephen once

52:14

all while blocking the number from

52:16

caller id. On December

52:18

eleventh, the day of Stephen slashed

52:20

tires. Seven. Calls were made

52:23

to Stevens phone. All. With a

52:25

blocked number. And on the

52:27

day though most tears were slashed, two

52:29

calls were made to her from that

52:31

sounds. It. Seems clear Robert was

52:33

making the calls or getting someone to

52:35

make them for him. using.

52:37

His phone. Now. First

52:40

tires and threatening calls aren't the

52:42

same as murder, but it showed

52:44

Robert did try to interfere with

52:46

seasons relationship with one woman. And.

52:49

Maybe he would do it with another. And.

52:51

Maybe he didn't initially intend to

52:53

kill the tree set night? Maybe

52:55

we're just going to follow her

52:57

home and/heard tires. But. Then she

52:59

pulled over and he decided to approach

53:02

her car. Or. May be changed his

53:04

mind and decided to force or off the

53:06

road. According to Robert, he

53:08

did none of these things. He pleaded not

53:10

guilty to first degree murder and went to

53:13

trial in September of two thousand and nine.

53:16

He. Had an excellent attorney. I'm not

53:18

a legal expert, but I do see a

53:20

lot of cases. The. Major source for

53:23

this. Episode was the Trial

53:25

which is available online. So

53:27

I've seen a lot of attorneys an accent.

53:30

And this is the kind of attorney

53:32

you want in your corner as a

53:34

defendant. For one thing, he was thorough.

53:36

He found in issue with the search

53:39

warrant for Roberts house and got everything

53:41

their kicked out so the receipt of

53:43

the burned close he and computer info

53:45

that showed Robert was familiar with the

53:47

area literary was found even though he

53:50

told the police he wasn't. All.

53:52

Of that was kicked out. And

53:54

he did a good job arguing why

53:56

to witnesses should be excluded. Now they

53:58

weren't excluded in spite of the best

54:00

account. But. The jury was given

54:02

a strict instructions on the scope

54:05

of that testimony. These

54:07

witnesses were two other men

54:09

who had stories about Roberts

54:11

advances. The. First witness, a man

54:13

named Liquid Senate testified that he was

54:15

working at the South Point Mall in

54:17

two thousand and Five when Robert approached

54:20

his kiosk. They. Were talking

54:22

and eventually robber offered to drive liquids

54:24

and home which he welcomed since he

54:26

normally take the bus which took forever

54:29

to go just twenty miles. As

54:31

they were driving look, Quintin said that

54:33

the conversation ended up being kind of

54:35

a locker room guy talk. including.

54:38

Talk about women and sex.

54:41

When he dropped liquids and off Robert

54:43

asked how much he paid rent and

54:45

look. Quintin said it wasn't really much,

54:47

just about one hundred dollars for his

54:49

room. Robber. Offered Look Quintin

54:52

a room for free. But remember they

54:54

literally just met that day. So obviously

54:56

a look Quintin turned him down. But.

54:59

Over the next little bit Robert would show

55:01

up at the mall and talk with look

55:03

Quintin and Robert made the offer for him

55:05

to live with them again. Which. Look

55:07

Quintin eventually to come up on it because

55:10

the place he was staying was not working

55:12

out. Not. Long after

55:14

move again Robert was heading out

55:16

of town so Clinton was going

55:18

to house sit. And. Take care

55:20

of roberts dog while he was

55:23

gone. Look. Wins and would

55:25

bow to himself. Had his girlfriend

55:27

over without telling Robert. Robert.

55:30

Found out though because he saw condoms in

55:32

the trash and he asks hello Quintin if

55:34

he had any win over. Liquid.

55:36

Had lied and said he hadn't

55:38

and robber asked. Then. Why

55:41

do you have condoms? Robert.

55:43

Was not happy that look. Quintin had

55:45

his girlfriend over which wasn't immediately a

55:47

red flag for a low Quintin because

55:50

it was Roberts House. And

55:52

maybe he didn't want strangers over

55:54

without his knowledge, particularly when he

55:56

was out of town. But.

55:58

Then we start seeing a pattern that

56:00

we have seen before. Robert.

56:03

Had already built in the comfort. Talking

56:05

about Sachs the first time they spoke.

56:07

And. After a few weeks of living

56:10

with Robert, look Clinton.the have you

56:12

ever thought of being a male

56:14

escort line? Again, Same

56:16

exact wording, And then

56:18

Robert went into the oral. sex isn't

56:21

any different from a man than a

56:23

woman. And that's when the Quintin realized

56:25

what was happening. Look. Quintin

56:27

less the room at this point, feeling very

56:29

unsure about what to do next. He

56:32

had been staying there for free

56:34

and now he was being in

56:36

his view proposition for sex. And

56:39

if he had any doubts that those

56:41

two things were connected, those deals were

56:43

raised. One Robert told him. That.

56:45

Runs actually wasn't free. He

56:47

now owed him money. So.

56:51

The rent was free until look Quintin

56:53

turned him down for sex. Is.

56:56

That wasn't bad enough. The next

56:58

ala Quintin was arrested at work

57:00

after Robert called the police to

57:03

report destruction of property. The.

57:05

Charges would later be dropped, but the

57:07

point of this testimony was to show

57:10

that Robert retaliated when he was turned

57:12

down. The. Other men

57:14

who testified was a security

57:16

system installation tech named John.

57:19

He. Had been to Roberts House in October

57:21

of two thousand and seven when he was

57:23

considering getting the alarm system installed. John.

57:26

Arrived at eight am and Robert

57:28

was wearing a suit. About.

57:30

Fifteen minutes later, Stephen left for

57:32

class and Robert changed into shorts

57:34

and an undershirt. And began

57:36

the pattern that we have learned so well.

57:39

He. Started with a locker room type

57:41

talk about sex. He. Then said

57:44

John had good features and would

57:46

do well as a male escort.

57:49

I'm sure you can already guess that. He

57:51

then asked about John's penis size and asked

57:53

if he would ever have a sexual encounter

57:56

with a man. This guy

57:58

was there to assess the. For

58:01

installing a home security system.

58:03

And he was being sexually harassed.

58:06

He. Told Robert that he had to be

58:08

elsewhere and went to seek Roberts hand. Like

58:10

the end of a professional interaction. He.

58:13

Testified that when he offered his hand,

58:15

Robert then at grabbed him by the

58:17

rest and started pulling him farther into

58:19

the house in the direction of the

58:22

bathroom. Robert. Then told John to

58:24

just let him do what he had to do

58:26

and he'd give them some money afterwards. John.

58:29

Got himself at least from Robert Scrap

58:31

and took off out the door, leading

58:33

all of this paperwork and some of

58:35

the stuff behind. The.

58:38

Purpose of this testimony wasn't

58:40

just a pattern of behavior,

58:42

but also that Robert pulled

58:44

this full grown man into

58:46

the house with one hand.

58:48

And it's important because that would be

58:50

a defense argument. Robert. Couldn't

58:53

have dragged and stabbed blue trees

58:55

because his left arm was nearly

58:57

useless. But. Here he is

58:59

dragging a full grown man who

59:02

is actively trying to get away.

59:04

The. Defense did try to get

59:06

the parts of John's testimony about

59:09

the sexual harassment excluded. Even

59:11

if the physical force part was

59:13

allowed in. They. Were worried

59:15

that homophobia would influence the

59:18

jury, but beyond that, Roberts

59:20

predatory behavior would absolutely prejudice

59:22

them against him. I. Mean

59:24

a prejudices me against him and I imagine if

59:26

I was on that jury. I. Would

59:28

have to work pretty hard to

59:31

separate that from the actual charges

59:33

against him. The. Judge

59:35

however decided that he had to

59:37

allow the lead up in otherwise

59:39

it wouldn't make any sense to

59:41

the jury on why Robert was

59:43

pulling this alarm system tax towards

59:46

the bathroom. But. The jury

59:48

was only supposed to consider it

59:50

as far as physical ability wet.

59:53

Another major piece of evidence we haven't gone

59:55

over was some Dna that was found on

59:57

the steering wheel of Le Treats. His. Car.

1:00:00

The sample was a mixture of the

1:00:02

trees as Dna and a male of

1:00:04

African descent. It was only

1:00:06

a partial Dna profile, so they

1:00:09

could only exclude and include people

1:00:11

not match them. There. And

1:00:13

courteous and Stephen Rand were

1:00:15

excluded as contributors. And

1:00:17

Robert was included as a

1:00:20

possible contributor. According. To

1:00:22

the testimony, the chances the Dna came

1:00:24

from a black man other than Robert

1:00:26

were one in one hundred and forty

1:00:29

seven thousand. There. Is

1:00:31

one thing that came up in the trial

1:00:33

that seems odd to me and now was

1:00:35

that a nice and a screwdriver were found

1:00:37

in the back of Roberts vehicle. The.

1:00:40

Odd thing isn't that they were found. It

1:00:42

said they were both sound nine months after

1:00:44

his arrest when there was a nother search

1:00:46

of his minivan. But. Neither tested

1:00:48

positive for blood, and it's not clear if

1:00:51

either were the murder weapon. That.

1:00:53

Offense hinted that they were planted there, but

1:00:55

if they were planted, I don't know why

1:00:57

they wouldn't have made sure some dna or

1:00:59

blood ended up on them. I mean, if

1:01:01

Robert burned his clothes, he almost surely got

1:01:04

rid of the murder weapon. At

1:01:06

most is so that Robert sometimes carried

1:01:08

a things capable of stabbing people with.

1:01:11

We've. Gotten into the major points of the state's

1:01:14

case here and but let's go ahead and get

1:01:16

into the defense. Like I said, this was a

1:01:18

pretty good defense. This attorney was on at. First.

1:01:21

They had an alternative suspect and that

1:01:23

was Stephen Randolph. They didn't just suggests

1:01:26

it. They outright blamed him for killing

1:01:28

Le Trees. When. Stephen

1:01:30

testified. Any inconsistency in his testimony

1:01:32

from his statements to the police

1:01:35

were brought up. He. Said he

1:01:37

had sex with Patrice twice from the stand,

1:01:39

but he had told the police said sex

1:01:41

three times. So. That was challenge

1:01:43

in one were in police report.

1:01:45

It said that Stevens said he

1:01:47

left Delmas house about fifteen minutes

1:01:49

after the last phone call with

1:01:51

the trees, which completely changed his

1:01:53

timeline if true, It. Would give

1:01:56

them time to go home get Roberts. They n n

1:01:58

b at the murder scene by one thirty. The.

1:02:00

Steven testified that this was not true and

1:02:03

it was not what he said to the

1:02:05

police. He. Did have someone at

1:02:07

Bath Up that he didn't leave them

1:02:09

as house until one twenty as. But.

1:02:11

That was a friend of his and

1:02:14

friends will alibi each other sometimes. He.

1:02:16

And the other proof that see

1:02:19

then got home was that the

1:02:21

home alarm was armed at one

1:02:23

twenty eight. Which. Aligns with his

1:02:25

story, but arming an alarm can be done

1:02:27

by any one. And. It's not done

1:02:29

by code, so how do we know it was Stephen?

1:02:32

Was. A possible that robber had gotten up and

1:02:34

realize the alarm was off so he arm that.

1:02:37

That's what the defense said happens. That.

1:02:39

Offense also pointed out the odd

1:02:41

timeline that the literary Celeste at

1:02:43

ten Pm. Robert. Would have

1:02:46

been following her around for two to

1:02:48

three hours or more. In

1:02:50

we know he had to than following her because

1:02:52

there was no other way he could have known

1:02:54

where she was otherwise. They. Had absolutely no

1:02:57

contact with each other. It's not like there

1:02:59

was a call between the two of them

1:03:01

and he could have gone to meet are

1:03:03

on the side of the highway. But.

1:03:05

There was someone who'll the trees did talk

1:03:07

to on the phone that night. And.

1:03:09

It was someone who would have gone to meet

1:03:11

her on the side of the highway and that

1:03:13

was see then. They. Had just

1:03:15

had that issue with the calm down which

1:03:17

would make any one worried about pregnancy. And.

1:03:20

The Trees was talking about pursuing

1:03:22

a more serious relationship. Instead.

1:03:25

Of saying we can talk about this later

1:03:27

like Stephen told the police he said. Maybe.

1:03:30

He said let's talk about this now and

1:03:32

he drove out to where the trees was.

1:03:35

using. Robertson and. Litter.

1:03:38

Says wedding rings were found in the car

1:03:40

so maybe she took them off to show

1:03:42

Stephen she was serious. her marriage was over.

1:03:45

Then. The talking turned into arguing and

1:03:47

Stephen saw the future he hoped he

1:03:49

had in the and ba. Derailed.

1:03:52

Enraged. He attacked. Didn't.

1:03:55

That make more sense. Roberts attorney

1:03:58

argued that more trees and. The

1:04:00

other in some caravan of driving

1:04:02

around for hours. Did. It

1:04:04

make more sense that a college athlete

1:04:06

would be able to overpower a physically

1:04:09

fit woman and drag her back to

1:04:11

the woods, rather than a man with

1:04:13

one bad arm. Know.

1:04:15

As for the motive, the defense basically had

1:04:17

to throw their hands up and concede that

1:04:20

Robert Reeves preyed on young men. They.

1:04:22

Compared him to a street man who does the

1:04:24

same thing to young women. Instead of

1:04:27

chasing skirts, he was chasing pants.

1:04:29

And. Those were the attorneys words, not mine.

1:04:32

But. The attorney use this to

1:04:34

his advantage in his arguments.

1:04:37

Because. Robert was always on the

1:04:39

lookout for the next guy. He didn't

1:04:42

really have any attachment or intimacy with.

1:04:44

see then. He. Didn't actively pursue

1:04:46

him after Stephen told him he

1:04:48

wasn't interested. He certainly didn't care

1:04:50

enough to threaten him, harass velma,

1:04:53

or kill the trees. And

1:04:55

for the scratches. Robber got those when

1:04:57

he and Stephen move furniture in the

1:04:59

house and the Dna was such a

1:05:01

small amount a partial profile. That.

1:05:03

It could have been transfer. When.

1:05:06

The Trees. Went to the bathroom to try

1:05:08

to get the com amounts used of the

1:05:10

half bath on the main floor that everyone

1:05:12

in the house used. She could have gotten

1:05:14

some of Roberts Dna on her in transferred

1:05:17

it to the steering wheel. Is.

1:05:19

It was Roberts Dna at all

1:05:21

again that was inconclusive. As.

1:05:24

For the alarm at two thirty

1:05:26

three Am which was disarmed by

1:05:28

Robert using his master code. That

1:05:30

offends said yes, it was robber who did that.

1:05:33

But. He wasn't coming into the

1:05:36

house, he was already inside.

1:05:38

The. Door was opened and the alarm was

1:05:40

disarmed and four seconds it would make more

1:05:43

sense according to the defense that he was

1:05:45

pretty close to the keypad to be able

1:05:47

to punch in the number that quickly. They.

1:05:50

Said that he had opened the door

1:05:52

from the inside to let his dog

1:05:54

out. Ten. Minutes later the

1:05:56

alarm was arms again which is in line

1:05:58

with a dog going. The outside to use

1:06:01

the bathroom in the middle of the night. But.

1:06:03

The attorney in his closing mentioned that

1:06:05

sixteen minutes later Robert disarmed the alarm

1:06:08

again and then two minutes later it

1:06:10

was said again and he doesn't really

1:06:12

explain as other than to say that

1:06:14

Robert told the police he went to

1:06:16

bed around eleven thirty and was up

1:06:18

and down all night with things like

1:06:20

turning off lights and dealing with the

1:06:22

dog. Maybe. The dog went out again

1:06:25

but surely the state was thinking he was running

1:06:27

out to is the and to get rid of

1:06:29

evidence. That. Offense argued that

1:06:31

the only reason the evidence pointed more

1:06:33

towards Robert than toward Stephen is because

1:06:35

that's how the police were looking for.

1:06:38

After they narrowed in on Robert

1:06:40

within days. They. Decided not

1:06:43

to request the cell phone records for

1:06:45

Stephen to prove that he or at

1:06:47

least as phone was where he said

1:06:49

he was. By. The time the

1:06:51

defense came on board and wanted those

1:06:53

records, more than ninety days had passed

1:06:55

and the information was gone. Beyond.

1:06:58

That they pointed out that it was Steve and

1:07:00

who had a nice and sword collection. Were.

1:07:03

Any weapons missing? Maybe we don't know.

1:07:05

The police asked Stephen how many items

1:07:07

or in his collection and then they

1:07:09

counted them and they were the same

1:07:12

number. Would see them. Could very easily

1:07:14

lied and said he had one no

1:07:16

less than he had before the murder.

1:07:18

There was no independent accounting of his

1:07:20

collection. Of course, the defense

1:07:23

didn't really have to prove Stephen Randolph did

1:07:25

at that was not their job. The.

1:07:27

State had to prove that Robert

1:07:29

Reeves was guilty beyond a reasonable

1:07:31

doubt. And the defense argued

1:07:33

that Stephen Randolph provided beyond a

1:07:35

reasonable doubt and he was actually

1:07:38

evidence of Roberts innocence. When.

1:07:40

The jury took the case to deliberate.

1:07:43

They really focused on that timeline. Logic.

1:07:45

Dictates that the killer had access to the

1:07:47

minivan, so that gives us a robber and

1:07:50

Stephen as are suspects. Did. Robert

1:07:52

really drive around following the trees for

1:07:54

hours before killing her. Or. Did

1:07:56

see them somehow drive out to where she

1:07:58

was, kill her and get that. Without

1:08:00

setting off the alarm or disarming

1:08:02

it. So. The house alarm was

1:08:04

armed from one twenty eight until two

1:08:06

thirty three, so it couldn't have been

1:08:08

in that window. Robert. Said

1:08:11

he was up letting the dog out for the

1:08:13

next ten minutes and he did not mention season

1:08:15

coming home. And. Then it was

1:08:17

armed again of from up to forty

1:08:19

three until just about three am. It.

1:08:22

Was then only disarmed by

1:08:24

Robert briefly. Again, he did

1:08:26

not report that seeding came

1:08:28

in at that time. Said.

1:08:30

No one disarm the alarm until people

1:08:32

started leaving for the day around eight

1:08:34

am. So. How did Stephen

1:08:36

get back into the house where a

1:08:39

Robert and Will Amaze said he was

1:08:41

in the morning without ever disarming the

1:08:43

alarm? It only made sense that

1:08:45

he came home before the alarm was set

1:08:47

for the night. And. The only time

1:08:50

that could have been was one twenty

1:08:52

eight or earlier. Just like you said,

1:08:55

So. That less the jury with only

1:08:57

Robert reads. they found him guilty

1:08:59

of first degree murder. After

1:09:01

the verdict, the judge. Did something

1:09:04

he had never done before.

1:09:06

He allowed the prosecution to

1:09:08

tell the jury about the

1:09:10

suppressed evidence. He. Thought it was

1:09:12

only fair that the jury walk out of the court

1:09:14

room with all of the knowledge on the case. And.

1:09:17

That's when they learned about the burned

1:09:19

clothing and the disposable pan that Robert

1:09:22

had bought. They. Also learned that

1:09:24

there was a young man who accused Robert

1:09:26

of rape in the past who was too

1:09:28

afraid to testify. Robert. Reeves

1:09:30

is serving a life without parole

1:09:32

sentence and his appeals have been

1:09:34

denied. In. This case,

1:09:36

I think the evidence points towards

1:09:39

Robert Read skill. It's.

1:09:41

A good thing mode doesn't have to

1:09:43

be proven it to prove a case,

1:09:45

because this motive seems flimsy to me.

1:09:48

Look. Trees had a little to do

1:09:50

with robber and probably never thought twice

1:09:52

about him. And that

1:09:54

really only compounds the tragedy.

1:09:57

As. The treats his father told the media.

1:10:00

The verdict. Like. Trees

1:10:02

would have died just so

1:10:04

confused. With. No idea why

1:10:06

This man who she barely knew.

1:10:09

Was. Attacking her. And.

1:10:11

Part of me wonders if Robert Rees

1:10:13

even understands why he did it. He

1:10:15

has the rest of his life in

1:10:17

prison. Try to figure it out. Thank

1:10:20

you for listening as you want more

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