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cosi.org. It
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is podcast recommendation time and this time
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I am going to recommend a podcast
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from one of my friends. And this
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is a podcast that I would love
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even if Kristen wasn't my friend but
0:39
she is. And that podcast is Murder
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She Told. One of the
0:44
things I love best about Kristen's show
0:46
is that you are not going to
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hear the same cases you've heard on
0:50
other podcasts. In Murder She Told, Kristen
0:53
focuses on lesser-known true crime stories generally
0:55
in New England, sometimes beyond, and they're
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told from the perspective of a
1:00
victim's advocate. You will see
1:02
this most in her work on the Reeves-Johnson
1:04
case. This is a missing persons case from
1:06
Kittery, Maine. It happened in 1983 and not
1:08
only was
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she given access to the case file
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to make a podcast, she currently actively
1:14
works on the case as new leads
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come in. But no case really hits
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quite like the Danielle Bertolini case does
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and that's because Danielle was Kristen's childhood
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friend and she was murdered in California
1:25
in 2014. There has been no justice
1:29
in that case and Danielle's
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episode features an interview with
1:34
her mother and with the lead detective on
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that case. Murder She Told is an investigative
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podcast that is rooted in deep
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research, straightforward narratives, and the victims
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and their families are at the
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center of every story. You can
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learn more at murdershetold.com and search
1:51
for Murder She Told now wherever
1:53
you get your podcasts. In
2:06
2012, Mickey Schunich left on her bicycle
2:08
to ride home. When she vanished,
2:10
over a thousand tips came in, but it took
2:13
two to lead to her killer. What
2:15
they later learned was Mickey wasn't his
2:17
first victim. I'm Charlie and welcome
2:19
to Crimelines. I
2:29
hope everyone's having a good week. I
2:32
wanted to give a
2:34
reminder slash announcement that I do
2:36
have a Patreon and Apple subscription
2:38
account and that allows you
2:40
to get all of the Crimelines content
2:42
ad-free and there is also bonus
2:45
content every month. Historically, those bonus
2:47
episodes have just been like regular Crimelines episodes.
2:49
What I put up there isn't really anything
2:51
different than what I would do in the
2:53
main feed. But then I had an
2:55
idea. I have talked before
2:57
about how if I made another podcast, it
3:00
would be just taking the Forensic Files episode
3:02
and getting into all the details that they
3:05
left out along the way with updates on
3:07
the cases because a lot of the convictions
3:09
ended up being appealed and more information came
3:11
out. I definitely
3:13
do not have the time to
3:16
do something that research-intensive on top
3:18
of Crimelines, but then it
3:20
occurred to me that I could just take that
3:22
show idea and make it my bonus content. So
3:25
starting in April, the Patreon and
3:27
Apple subscriber bonus content will become
3:30
its own series called Beyond the
3:32
Files. So be like Crimelines
3:34
episodes in that we'll follow the timeline
3:36
and there are going to be deep
3:38
dives, but we're going to take a
3:40
look at Forensic Files and their portrayals
3:42
specifically. If you're
3:44
already on Patreon or Apple subscriptions, you'll
3:46
see these episodes pop up just
3:48
like the bonus content always has. You
3:51
don't have to change anything or move to
3:53
a new tier because this will just take
3:56
the place of the monthly bonus content you've
3:58
always gotten. And if you're not- supporter
4:00
already and want access to Beyond the Files,
4:02
the links will be in the show notes.
4:06
I'll be up front. It is $5
4:08
USD a month to get to Beyond
4:10
the Files episodes per month, plus all
4:12
the Crimelines episodes ad-free. I
4:15
try to keep my pricing in the
4:17
affordable range because I'm not
4:19
someone who will spend $15 or
4:21
$20 a month on someone's Patreon, so
4:24
I certainly don't expect my listeners to pay
4:26
that much for mine, if that makes sense.
4:29
So with that announcement slash self-promotion
4:31
out of the way, let's get
4:33
into this week's case. This
4:35
one is a topic suggestion sent in
4:37
by Tiffany, so thank you Tiffany for
4:39
that. We are talking
4:41
about Michaela Schunich, who pretty much always
4:44
went by Mickey. She was
4:46
born in May 1990 and grew up
4:48
in Lafayette, Louisiana with an older sister
4:50
named Charlie and a younger brother named
4:52
Derek. Mickey was an
4:55
introspective person, a little quieter than her
4:57
older sister, but still funny and outgoing
4:59
in her own way. She
5:01
loved horseback riding and just animals in
5:04
general. After high school, she
5:06
decided to stay at home and go
5:08
to college locally at the University of
5:10
Louisiana at Lafayette, and
5:12
there she was studying anthropology.
5:15
Mickey was someone who generally rode her
5:17
bike everywhere she needed to go. Pretty
5:20
much anywhere in Lafayette she wanted to
5:22
be was within about 20 minutes or
5:24
so. On Friday, May 18, 2012,
5:26
Mickey was just days away from
5:30
her 22nd birthday and she went out with
5:32
friends to listen to some
5:34
live music at a place called
5:36
the Artemosphere Bistro. This is
5:38
a small venue. It's basically a house
5:41
that's been converted into an
5:43
artsy bistro, and as usual,
5:45
Mickey rode her bike. She
5:48
was there from about 10-15 at night until
5:51
1245 when she
5:53
and another friend named Brettlee left
5:55
and rode about a mile to Brettlee's
5:57
house. They hung out there and
6:00
until about 1.20 in the morning when
6:02
they decided to go get something to
6:04
eat. There are only
6:06
a few food options available at that hour
6:08
and most of them are drive-throughs, which is
6:10
one thing Mickey could not do on her
6:13
bike. So she and Brettlee used his
6:15
car to go pick up some Taco Bell and
6:17
they were seen on the security camera there at
6:19
1.24. They
6:23
then went back to Brettlee's house to
6:25
eat where they were when a friend
6:27
called Mickey on her cell phone around
6:29
1.30. They talked
6:31
for a little bit and according to Brettlee,
6:33
it was about 15 minutes
6:35
after this call that Mickey said she
6:37
needed to go. She
6:40
said she had to get some sleep because her
6:42
little brother had his high school graduation the
6:44
next morning. Mickey left at about
6:46
1.45 and because it
6:48
was about a four mile ride to her
6:51
house, she would have been
6:53
expected to get there by about 2am,
6:55
but she never made it. Initially
6:58
Mickey's parents were mostly just annoyed that
7:00
morning that she was running late getting
7:03
home in time for the graduation, so
7:05
they left without her assuming she would just meet
7:07
them there. But the ceremony
7:09
started at 11.30 and Mickey hadn't
7:11
shown. It wasn't outrageous
7:14
to think that Mickey was running late,
7:16
but not coming at all was not
7:18
like her. Hospitals
7:20
to her cell phone went straight to voicemail,
7:23
so her mom started calling around to
7:25
area hospitals to see if she
7:27
had been admitted somewhere. And
7:29
while she did that, Mickey's older sister
7:31
Charlie called Brettlee knowing that Mickey had
7:33
plans with him the night before. Brettlee
7:36
told Charlie that Mickey had left around
7:39
1.45 and mentioned how Mickey specifically said
7:41
she had to go home and get
7:43
some sleep before the graduation.
7:46
So as of 1.45am, Mickey fully intended
7:48
to be there for her brother and
7:50
she was heading home. Knowing
7:53
this and not being able to find anyone who
7:55
talked to Mickey after she left Brettlee's house, the
7:58
family called the police to report her
8:01
missing. Searches
8:03
began immediately with family, friends,
8:05
and volunteers walking every possible
8:08
path from Brettley's house to
8:10
Mickey's house in the
8:12
hopes of finding any clue as to
8:14
where she went. The
8:16
family was sure she left Brettley's because
8:18
Brettley said so and they trusted him.
8:21
The investigators however trusted no one so
8:23
they were looking into the possibility
8:26
that Brettley was lying. Brettley
8:28
was taken to the station for questioning
8:30
which started out normal enough with them
8:32
just asking what happened that night leading
8:35
up to Mickey leaving his house. But
8:38
then the questions got a little pushier.
8:40
They said things that were attempts
8:43
to get Brettley to make
8:45
some concessions. Things like, we
8:48
know accidents can happen and
8:50
maybe you panicked. Brettley
8:53
stuck to his version of
8:55
events so then the investigators
8:57
got more directly confrontational and
9:00
downright accusatory saying things like
9:02
how Brettley was probably in love with Mickey.
9:04
She was a pretty young woman, maybe
9:06
he tried something and she turned him
9:08
down and they could see how something
9:10
could have escalated. But
9:13
Brettley was adamant. He and Mickey were just
9:15
friends, had always just been friends and Mickey
9:17
was alive and well when she left his
9:19
house that night. It's
9:21
not clear if the investigators believed him after
9:24
his interview or not but they definitely believed
9:26
him when they pulled footage from cameras along
9:29
the path from his house to Mickey's. At
9:32
1.47 and 1.48 AM,
9:35
the cameras caught Mickey riding in the
9:37
direction of her house. As
9:40
they checked cameras closer to her
9:42
house, she didn't appear. So
9:45
they knew for sure Mickey had left Brettley's
9:47
house but she wouldn't have made it even
9:49
halfway home based on what they could see
9:52
on the cameras. On
9:54
May 21st, instead of
9:56
celebrating Mickey's birthday, a prayer vigil was
9:58
held in downtown downtown Lafayette that
10:01
was covered by the national media
10:03
and that helped get a lot of eyes on this case.
10:06
Elizabeth Smart, who is the face
10:08
of hope in situations like this,
10:11
spoke with the local paper, the daily
10:14
advertiser, encouraging the community
10:16
to stay optimistic. She
10:18
said that until the missing person is
10:20
found, no one should give up and
10:22
think they'll never come home. She
10:25
encouraged the family to lean on each
10:27
other's strengths so that they weren't
10:30
driven apart and lean on
10:32
strengths is exactly what they did. Mickey's
10:35
sister, Charlie, canceled her summer internship
10:37
and became the spokesperson for this
10:39
case. She was doing
10:41
everything from organizing volunteers to
10:44
doing radio interviews to making
10:46
sure the social media awareness on
10:49
the case was up to date
10:51
and accurate with the latest information.
10:54
And if you talk to any family
10:56
advocate, they will tell you that keeping social
10:58
media one up to date and too accurate
11:00
is a feat on its own. A
11:04
few days after Mickey went missing, a big
11:06
piece of information was released to the public
11:08
on this case and that was the CCTV
11:10
footage of Mickey riding her bike home that
11:12
night. This gave the public an
11:15
idea of what she was wearing and what her bike
11:17
looked like, but it also stopped
11:19
the tips and the conversation on
11:21
social media that was regarding Brettlee.
11:24
Just because someone was cleared by the police, it
11:26
didn't mean the public wasn't still saying, have they
11:29
looked into her friend, he's the last one to
11:31
see her, that seems suspicious. So
11:33
releasing this definitely quieted
11:35
those voices. They
11:37
then also released additional footage of a
11:40
pickup truck and two cars that passed
11:42
in the same area as Mickey around
11:44
the same time. They were
11:46
called possible witnesses and that was certainly
11:48
true of at least one car that
11:50
was actually going in the opposite direction.
11:52
But the truck, The truck did
11:54
seem a little suspicious. It was behind
11:57
Mickey and came through the intersection shortly
11:59
after she was. The Dead. According
12:01
to some reports, it looked like it's
12:03
brake lights came on. After it
12:06
passed by the camera. The
12:08
investigators could not get a plate number
12:10
off the truck, but from what they
12:13
could see it with a white Chevy
12:15
Silverado know this is hardly an unusual
12:17
are rarer vehicle in Southern Louisiana. However,
12:19
they were able to narrow it down
12:21
to disease seventy one model thanks to
12:24
the help from a local dealership. A
12:27
big tip came in on Saturday, May
12:29
twenty sixth. Twenty twelve a week after
12:32
Mickey. What Method? Fishermen.
12:34
And the Whiskey Bay Area sound
12:36
bite off the I Ten bridge.
12:38
He having see me extensive reports
12:40
admit his disappearance they call the
12:42
police. Showing. Turley. A photo
12:45
of the black and gold bite see
12:47
identified it as Mickey's. The.
12:49
Bike Looks like it had been l
12:51
in the swamp for a week, but
12:53
more than that, the back tire was
12:55
absolutely mangled. It. Wasn't the damage
12:57
you would get from throwing it
12:59
off the bridge? It looked more
13:01
like it had been hit, possibly
13:04
by a white Chevy Silverado. The
13:06
discovery of. The bike gave the searchers a
13:08
new area to look and Texas Aqua Search
13:11
team in to help. But.
13:13
It also made the
13:15
communities collective heart sink.
13:18
This was a good twenty five to
13:20
thirty miles from where Mickey was last
13:22
seen and in the opposite direction of
13:24
her house. She. Hadn't
13:26
gotten her by dealt their herself. In.
13:30
The early days of the search, over
13:32
a thousand tips came in about white
13:34
trucks or suspicious men. Rarely
13:36
where the tips about both, but they did
13:38
get a lead on a eighteen year old
13:40
named Rocky. He. Drove a white
13:43
truck and more than that, he was
13:45
about to go on trial for a
13:47
Dui manslaughter case. Was. A
13:49
possible he was driving around intoxicated
13:51
and hit Mickey. Now. Worried
13:53
about what that would mean for his upcoming
13:56
trial, he may have decided to get rid
13:58
of the evidence. Now this
14:00
was but one tip out of many
14:02
that were being investigated at the same
14:05
time, but this tip did
14:07
leak onto social media and it blew
14:09
up. Suddenly more
14:11
tips came in about Rocky and some
14:13
even implicated his girlfriend saying that she
14:15
was with him that night. This
14:18
was a really hot lead but so
14:21
many of the tips were
14:23
just based on what was already being put
14:25
out on social media. The
14:27
one independent tip they got, the
14:30
one that started all of this, that
14:32
was determined to be a hoax. Either
14:35
the tipster wanted attention or wanted to
14:37
cause a headache for Rocky, but what
14:39
they really did was waste investigators' time.
14:43
By early June, the major searches
14:45
had been called off. They
14:48
had covered all of the key areas they
14:50
knew to look, like around Brettley's house, the
14:52
route to Mickey's house, and
14:54
the Whiskey Bay area. They had
14:57
come up empty handed so unless there was
14:59
a major tip, there was little for them
15:01
to do. Things seemed
15:03
publicly like they were starting to slow down
15:06
but they were actually heating up thanks to
15:08
a tip that came in on June 14,
15:10
2012. Mickey
15:14
had been missing for nearly four
15:16
weeks when a Lafayette car dealership
15:18
told the police about a man
15:20
who really wanted to buy a
15:22
white Chevy Silverado Z71. He
15:26
said he owned one but it was stolen recently
15:28
and he wanted to get another. He
15:31
was insistent that it had to be that
15:33
model and it had to be white. While
15:36
he was there, the TV news came on
15:38
with a segment about Mickey's case and
15:41
the man looked visibly nervous. The
15:44
tip said that this man was
15:46
named Brandon Laverne. This
15:49
name caught investigators' attention because one,
15:51
it was a specific tip with
15:53
information connected to a known element
15:55
of the crime and
15:57
two, they had Brandon's name from
15:59
another another tip that came in
16:01
a week earlier. The information
16:03
from that tip was less directly tied to
16:06
a known element of the case, which is
16:08
why it wasn't a priority. But
16:11
that caller, someone who knew Brandon,
16:13
said that he had been acting
16:15
suspiciously since Mickey went missing. That
16:18
same weekend she went missing, Brandon
16:20
showed up with stab wounds, having
16:23
claimed he was mugged in New
16:25
Orleans, even though he had
16:27
no plans to go there. New
16:29
Orleans is two hours away from
16:32
Lafayette, so it's not
16:34
somewhere you necessarily go without
16:36
notice. So
16:38
the investigators decided to run the
16:40
history of Brandon's vehicle insurance. If
16:43
his truck was stolen and he was ready
16:45
to buy another one, he very likely got
16:47
money from the insurance company. The question
16:50
was, was his truck stolen before
16:52
or after Mickey went
16:54
missing? The investigators learned
16:57
that Brandon did in fact file a
16:59
claim on the stolen vehicle, and
17:02
on it he stated his truck was
17:04
stolen in Texas between 11pm
17:06
on May 30th and
17:08
6am on the 31st. So
17:12
not just after Mickey went missing,
17:14
but after the police publicized that
17:16
they were looking for that truck.
17:19
The truck had been found in Texas,
17:22
but it was completely burnt out. Absolutely
17:25
a shell of a truck left, and
17:27
no evidence could be
17:29
recovered. On
17:31
June 20th, the police were able to
17:34
pull Brandon's phone records from the day
17:36
before Mickey went missing until the day
17:38
after he reported his truck stolen. And
17:41
they found out that on May 18th, the
17:43
night Mickey went out with her friends, Brandon
17:46
called several numbers between 4.20pm
17:48
and 12.18am. In
17:52
looking up these numbers, they
17:54
found that they were from
17:56
advertisements for escort services. Brandon's
18:00
phone then had no activity until 8
18:03
20 in the morning when he called his fiancee. And
18:06
then there were also some calls that
18:08
weekend to medical facilities. So the police
18:10
then got a warrant for his medical
18:12
records. Brandon had
18:14
shown up on the morning of
18:16
May 19 with stab wounds to
18:19
kind of his upper back neck area, a
18:22
stab wound to his chest as well
18:24
as an injury to his hand. At
18:28
the time, the police were of course
18:30
called to the hospital to take the
18:32
report. And Brandon told multiple stories between
18:34
what he told the nurses, what
18:37
he told the police and what he told others. The
18:52
basic story was that he stopped at a gas
18:54
station to ask for directions around 3 or 3
18:57
30 in the morning. One time he
18:59
said it was a big white guy with gold
19:01
teeth that attacked him with a knife stealing his
19:03
wallet with about $40 in it.
19:06
In another version, it was actually a big
19:08
black guy and then it was three black
19:11
men. And then the hand injury was actually
19:13
not from the stabbing, but from a separate
19:15
fishing incident. And you know,
19:17
the story just never aligned. As
19:20
for which gas station Brandon was when
19:23
this happened, he was a bit fuzzy
19:25
on this. They eventually questioned
19:27
him enough to narrow it down to
19:29
an area. And they found that the
19:31
only gas station that fit all the
19:33
elements he had told them about was
19:35
one that was on South Carrollton in
19:37
New Orleans. The police went
19:39
out there to investigate and the manager
19:41
said he was unaware of anything happening
19:44
overnight. Brandon hadn't come in,
19:46
he didn't ask to use the phone to call
19:48
the police, he didn't ask for an ambulance, and
19:50
no one witnessed the attack. The
19:52
manager let the police check the security
19:55
footage, which showed nothing. The
19:57
stab wounds were non-life threatening, but the
19:59
injury... to Brandon's hand was
20:01
bad enough that he needed surgery to
20:04
repair a damaged tendon. The
20:06
surgery was supposed to happen on May
20:09
25th, but he showed up and
20:11
he had poison ivy so they postponed it
20:13
for a few days until it cleared up.
20:16
So this man was stabbed, exposed to
20:18
poison ivy like he had been in
20:20
a field or the woods. Then
20:22
he had his truck stolen and torched and all
20:24
of that happened in less
20:27
than two weeks following the disappearance of
20:29
a woman who they think he was
20:31
in proximity to. Now
20:34
they couldn't tell the license plate number on
20:36
the truck on the cameras from the early
20:38
morning of May 19th. Those
20:41
dark images are too grainy,
20:44
but they could make out the shape of
20:46
the items in the truck bed. So
20:48
they used the license plate number of
20:50
Brandon's stolen truck and tried to find
20:52
an earlier image of the truck on
20:55
traffic cameras from when the sun was
20:57
up. And they found one.
20:59
They found his truck going through an intersection
21:01
earlier on the 18th and they could clearly
21:03
see what was in the bed. And
21:05
it all matched the shapes that you
21:08
can make out in that grainy after
21:10
dark footage. So they were
21:12
sure this was Brandon's truck behind Mickey.
21:15
And now he could have just been a
21:17
witness if not for the other suspicious circumstances
21:20
around him like the stab wounds and the
21:22
stolen truck. And I
21:24
guess I haven't mentioned the other thing.
21:26
They pulled Brandon's record and learned he
21:28
was a registered sex offender. Back
21:31
in April of 1999, Brandon, who was 20
21:34
at the time, broke into the home of
21:36
someone he knew and raped her. She
21:39
said she was in bed and he
21:41
blindfolded her and bound her wrists. Brandon
21:44
initially told the police that the incident was
21:46
consensual and she had invited him over. However,
21:50
in February of 2000, Brandon
21:52
pleaded guilty to aggravated oral
21:54
sexual battery in a plea
21:56
deal and he was sentenced to
21:58
10 years in prison. of which
22:00
he would serve just over eight. His
22:04
wife, who was a couple months pregnant when
22:06
he went to prison, divorced him and moved
22:08
out of the area with their child. When
22:11
Brandon was released, he was required
22:13
to register as a sex offender.
22:16
In Louisiana at the time, due to a 2006 law,
22:20
Brandon's driver's license had to have a stamp
22:22
on it indicating that he was a
22:25
sex offender. And this stamp was
22:27
not subtle. It's not like
22:29
the little checkbox for being an organ
22:31
donor or the indicator that you need
22:33
glasses while driving. It
22:35
was orange, all capital
22:38
letters saying sex offender right
22:40
under the photograph. This
22:42
law has since been struck down, but in 2012,
22:46
Brandon would have that stamp
22:48
on his license where he should have
22:50
had it. He certainly didn't want
22:52
it on there. And he was accused of
22:55
once offering a DMV worker $500
22:58
to not print the license with the stamp on it.
23:01
And the police learned that he had
23:03
altered his license in some way to
23:06
remove it. They learned this
23:08
because they had a record of a mobile
23:10
home purchase from earlier in the year. And
23:13
the seller had photocopied his ID, which did
23:15
not have the stamp on it. Removing
23:18
the stamp was enough cause to
23:21
pull over 33 year old Brandon
23:23
Laverne and detain him, which
23:25
they did on Thursday, July 5th, 2012. He
23:30
refused to speak to the police saying he
23:32
wanted a lawyer and they
23:34
then booked him on the charges of
23:36
first degree murder and kidnapping in Mickey's
23:39
case. Shortly
23:41
after the arrest, the investigators contacted
23:43
Brandon's half sister in Texas who
23:46
lived in the same area his
23:48
truck had allegedly been stolen from.
23:51
And she decided she would go ahead and tell
23:53
the police what she knew. She
23:56
said Brandon had come to our house to visit
23:58
and told her he needed to burn. his truck
24:01
and then reported missing and that's because
24:03
he got wrapped up in something criminal
24:06
in Louisiana. It's
24:08
not clear if he said it was
24:10
weapons related but that's definitely the impression
24:12
she got from whatever it was he
24:15
did say and she agreed
24:17
to help him. She
24:19
followed him to the spot where he torched his
24:21
truck and then drove him back to her house.
24:24
Brandon then reported the truck stolen in the
24:27
morning and got a rental car before driving
24:29
back home. So
24:31
this confirmed what the investigators already suspected
24:34
and that was that Brandon was the
24:36
one who destroyed his truck and
24:38
they believed he did so to
24:41
get rid of evidence in Mickey's
24:43
case. Also after Brandon's arrest they searched
24:45
his home and his new truck and
24:48
in that new truck they found an
24:50
envelope with a Mickey's mother's
24:52
phone number written on it which was
24:54
odd. It doesn't sound
24:56
like they could find evidence that he tried to
24:58
contact the family but it showed he was to
25:00
some degree paying attention to the
25:03
case. And
25:05
then in Brandon's home they found
25:07
two wallets with identification of other
25:09
people and a suitcase with
25:11
the ID tag that was for a woman.
25:15
At this point they were wondering if
25:17
they had a serial killer on their
25:19
hands and they investigated these
25:21
people as possible victims. They
25:24
learned that the owner of one of
25:27
the wallets was already deceased and the
25:29
suitcase had been donated to Brandon after
25:31
he lost everything in a house fire
25:33
earlier in the year. That's
25:35
why he had to purchase a new mobile home
25:37
and use an altered ID to do so that
25:39
then got him picked up by the police. But
25:43
they were able to confirm that the woman who
25:45
owned the suitcase was alive and well. So
25:48
that left them with one wallet and
25:50
they were unable to locate that person.
25:52
We'll go ahead and call her Susan. They
25:55
were able to get in touch with Susan's
25:57
brother though and he said that he hadn't
26:00
seen her in a few months. She
26:02
had been living with him but they had issues
26:04
and she moved out. He still
26:06
put money in her bank account to help
26:08
her but she was not returning his calls
26:11
so he decided to stop putting money in
26:13
the account with the idea that this would
26:15
push Susan into reaching out to make contact.
26:19
But it didn't and then he found out
26:21
that she hadn't been touching the bank account.
26:24
Though I changed her name, her real
26:26
name did leak out and it's probably
26:29
a good thing it did. It's interesting
26:31
this case has a name that leaks that turned out to
26:33
be a bad thing and one that turns out to
26:35
be a good thing. Some
26:37
online sleuths took the name
26:40
of the woman, did some online searches
26:43
and they found a very brief
26:45
and somewhat obscure mention of her
26:47
working on a production in the
26:49
area that she lived in. They
26:52
passed the info on to the police who were
26:54
able to make contact and confirm that Susan was
26:56
alive and well. It turned
26:59
out her purse had been stolen so
27:01
she was a victim but not of murder. However,
27:04
it turned out there was another
27:06
murder victim in Brandon's past. When
27:10
Mickey's case went to the grand jury and Brandon
27:12
was indicted on July 18th 2012, he was also
27:17
indicted in the murder of Lisa
27:20
Pate, someone the Schunich
27:22
family had never heard of. Lisa
27:25
Pate was 34 years old in
27:28
1999 when her family last heard from her. She
27:30
was someone who lived a bit on
27:32
the fringes dealing with drug addiction so
27:35
the family wasn't entirely sure when she
27:37
was last seen. They
27:39
could place it at late June
27:41
or early July 1999. That
27:44
was about the time she stopped showing up
27:47
for visits with her minor children. Like
27:50
a lot of people dealing with
27:52
substance abuse, Lisa had a pattern
27:54
of getting sober and relapsing. Getting
27:57
sober and relapsing. She Attended
27:59
at least two. Rehabs but she couldn't
28:01
kick her habit for good. It
28:03
appears she was living in hotels at the
28:05
time of her disappearance. Leases.
28:08
Family reported her missing and had
28:10
their family attorney doing some media
28:12
pushes to ask for tips. Then
28:15
on Tuesday September, twenty first linked to
28:17
Ninety Nine. So a few months after
28:20
she went missing. A man named
28:22
Gus and a few friends were hanging out
28:24
in his backyard. He and his
28:26
girlfriend had recently moved into the
28:28
rental house and so does decided
28:30
to explore part of the overgrown
28:33
patch. Of the property. After
28:35
following a trail through that area, He
28:37
saw three boards and line on the
28:40
ground. He lifted one and saw a
28:42
school. He. Called the police
28:44
and based on Denzel comparison the
28:46
body was identified as Lisa Page.
28:49
Brandon. Ended up being a
28:51
suspect in leases case before making
28:54
even went missing. He.
28:56
Had grown up in the area and he
28:58
knew the people who had been living in
29:00
the house at the time we some went
29:02
missing. So. Before Gus and his
29:04
girlfriend had moved in, Multiple.
29:06
People said branding confessed that
29:09
he had killed her, including
29:11
inmates who serve time with
29:13
him and including someone branded
29:15
had been allegedly stocking. Since
29:17
high school. This. Woman who
29:19
we will call Jill told the police she
29:22
was. Terrified of Brand and. He
29:24
had been a bully from middle school
29:26
until he dropped out of high school.
29:29
It. Was a relief to her that he
29:31
left school and would hopefully leave her
29:33
alone. But. At some point
29:35
in jails leader teen years she won
29:37
a local beauty pageants and somehow that
29:40
just put her back on Brandon's. Radar.
29:43
She. Has made some pretty heavy
29:45
accusations against him, though I don't
29:47
see that any of this was
29:49
prosecuted or dealt with legally. She.
29:52
Said he would follow her around town. He showed
29:54
up at our house with a gun. And.
29:57
he made threatening phone calls which were
29:59
recorded and Based on the investigative report,
30:01
linked in my show notes, these
30:03
were turned over to the police at the time.
30:07
Jill obviously didn't see or hear from
30:09
him from February 2000 when
30:11
he went to prison until April 2008 when he was
30:13
released. According
30:16
to her, he showed up at her house two
30:18
days after he got out, and her
30:20
husband chased him off the property. Jill
30:23
told the police that the last time she saw Brandon
30:25
was in June of 2012, about a month after
30:28
Mickey disappeared. She was
30:30
outside with her daughter and Brandon just
30:32
showed up. She grabbed her daughter and
30:35
got in the car but the window was still
30:37
rolled down so Brandon tried
30:39
to reach in like he was going
30:41
to hug her. She
30:43
was able to drive off without incident.
30:46
Jill said over the years she heard that
30:49
Brandon had confessed to killing Lisa and
30:51
that he confessed to cutting the brake lines
30:53
on a car that she was in. There
30:56
was a crash and the other person was
30:58
killed and Jill was seriously injured. But
31:01
everything Jill knew about this was hearsay. She
31:05
didn't hear Brandon say any of these
31:07
things herself. But Brandon
31:09
was enough of a suspect in Lisa's
31:11
murder that prior to him being released
31:13
from prison in 2008, they
31:16
convened a grand jury and presented the
31:18
evidence against him for Lisa
31:20
Pate's murder. The grand jury
31:22
at that time declined to indict. So
31:25
this was the second time Lisa's
31:28
case was presented to the grand
31:30
jury and this time they did
31:32
indict 33-year-old Brandon Laverne for both
31:34
Lisa's murder and Mickey's. On
31:37
July 27th, he pleaded not
31:39
guilty in both cases and
31:41
the next hearing would not
31:43
even be scheduled until October
31:45
when the filings were due.
31:48
So both families settled in for what
31:50
they thought was going to be a
31:53
long trial process. That
31:55
all changed a week and a
31:57
half later on August 7th. police
32:00
said they had a credible tip as
32:02
to the location of Mickey Schunich's body.
32:05
And some very observant journalists noted
32:07
that Brandon had been signed out
32:09
of lockup for nine hours that
32:11
day. So before it
32:13
was officially confirmed, it was widely
32:15
assumed that Brandon had talked. About
32:19
an hour north of Lafayette, Brandon
32:21
led investigators to the woods behind
32:23
an old private cemetery. There
32:26
they found the buried remains of
32:28
Mickey Schunich. Formal
32:31
identification took a few days, but the
32:33
source of the information was her killer,
32:35
so the family knew it was her. In
32:38
a plea deal that took the death penalty
32:40
off the table, Brandon had agreed
32:42
to confess to both the murders of
32:45
Mickey Schunich and Lisa Pate, as
32:47
well as lead investigators to
32:49
the recovery of Mickey's remains.
32:53
In the case of Lisa Pate, Brandon said he
32:55
met her around June of 1999 while she was
32:59
living at a hotel. He
33:01
invited her to come stay with him, which
33:03
was a house outside of Lafayette. After
33:06
a few days together, Lisa told him that she
33:08
wanted to go visit her kids and asked if
33:11
she could take his vehicle. He
33:13
said no. So then she asked
33:15
if he would drive her back to
33:17
Lafayette, and he said no to that
33:19
as well. So
33:22
Lisa was at this house with a guy
33:24
who was refusing to bring her back to
33:26
her family, and they weren't
33:28
in a place where she could reasonably walk home.
33:31
So she waited until Brandon fell asleep
33:33
and tried to sneak out the door
33:36
with his keys, but he caught her.
33:39
In a rage, Brandon beat, strangled,
33:41
and then suffocated Lisa with
33:43
a plastic bag before hiding
33:46
her remains behind his acquaintances
33:48
house. Now Brandon's confession
33:50
did align with the evidence. Though
33:53
it was held back at the
33:55
time, Lisa's face had multiple fractures
33:58
and plastic was Found
34:00
around her skull. But.
34:02
We have to remember that this story in
34:05
the one he would tell about Nicky. A
34:07
really just as versions and in my
34:10
opinion he has motivation to downplay what
34:12
happened. In this case, he
34:14
was provoked by Lisa trying to steal
34:16
his vehicle. And. Then he
34:19
would claim a provocation of sorts
34:21
with Mickey as well. Brandon.
34:24
Said he was driving around that night
34:26
he and had been drinking. He.
34:28
Got hungry so he had it's. a fast
34:30
food restaurants. While he was
34:32
driving am playing on his phone, he
34:34
said he saw something out of the
34:37
corner of his eye and it was
34:39
Mickey on her bike. He tried
34:41
to break but he ended up hitting her
34:43
back tire. Brendan. Said he
34:45
immediately got out of his troth, apologizing
34:47
to Mickey while she was pretty upset.
34:50
Somehow, the to pretty quickly came to
34:52
an agreement not to call the police
34:54
over the incident. In his
34:57
confession, he said that he didn't want the police
34:59
called because he had a gun in the truck.
35:01
And he wasn't allowed to have a
35:03
firearm As a convicted felon, Said.
35:06
It didn't want the police because
35:08
she indicated to him that she
35:10
had. Drugs. On her. And
35:13
by drugs at most he means
35:15
part At the time though all
35:17
marijuana either medical was illegal in
35:20
Louisiana. Anyway, according to
35:22
Brand in they agreed to several it
35:24
between themselves and he offered to give
35:26
Mickey a ride home as her bike
35:28
was unavoidable. Mickey. Hesitated
35:30
to accept this ride but then decided
35:32
to go with them. So. They put
35:35
her bike in the back and she got into the
35:37
club with him. As Brand
35:39
into rove her home he said
35:41
he offered her one hundred dollars
35:43
for the damage. Mickey. Countered
35:45
that it was a five hundred dollar
35:47
bike. But. Brandon said it was just
35:49
the tire that was messed up. am one hundred.
35:51
Dollars was perfectly reasonable. The.
35:54
To started going back and forth and Mickey
35:56
finally said she was going to call the
35:58
police. Brenda. said he stopped
36:00
the truck and told her to get out, but
36:02
she refused, saying that he would just take off
36:05
with her bike in the bed of his truck.
36:08
Mickey reached for her cell phone and Brandon
36:10
said he panicked and grabbed a knife. He
36:13
told her he wasn't playing around and not to
36:15
call the cops. Brandon
36:17
said he realized at that moment that he had screwed
36:19
up by overreacting and told Mickey he was sorry and
36:21
that he'd just give her the $500 and drop her
36:23
off at home. So
36:26
he put the knife down on the console so
36:28
it was in plain view to let
36:31
Mickey know she didn't have anything to worry about.
36:34
He was about to start driving again when
36:36
Mickey sprayed him with the mace she always
36:38
carried with her. He tried to
36:40
get the can of mace away from her and she
36:43
grabbed the knife and stabbed him. He
36:45
said he got the knife away from her and stabbed
36:47
her a few times and she then
36:49
slid to the floor of the truck.
36:52
Brandon said he thought about taking her to
36:54
the hospital, but he didn't know how he was
36:57
going to explain what happened. He
36:59
checked her pulse and couldn't detect it. So
37:02
he pulled out his gun and he considered
37:04
shooting himself because he just could not face
37:06
going back to prison. The
37:09
next bit in his memory was
37:11
fuzzy. It seems he
37:13
was driving around and at one
37:15
point he tried to take Mickey's
37:17
body out to a field and
37:19
he planned to leave her along
37:21
a tree line. He
37:23
pulled over and sat there for a
37:25
second when, according to him, Mickey
37:28
popped up, stabbed
37:30
him in the chest and then
37:33
he shot her in the head. Brandon
37:36
said he was so freaked out that he just drove
37:38
to his house with Mickey's body in the truck. He
37:41
started cleaning the blood off himself and
37:43
getting changed into clean clothes. He
37:46
said that while he was doing this, he
37:48
just kept going back in the truck to
37:50
see if Mickey's body was there because he
37:52
really couldn't believe what had happened. He
37:56
said he was still contemplating suicide, but
37:58
he had one child already. and another
38:00
on the way and he couldn't go through with it.
38:04
He thought about an old cemetery he knew
38:06
about from when he was in the army
38:08
and stationed at Fort Polk, so
38:11
he grabbed a shovel and drove out
38:13
there. But because
38:15
of the wounds he had, the ones
38:17
Mickey inflicted, he couldn't dig,
38:19
so he just covered her body with
38:22
branches before going home. He
38:24
cleaned his truck and then drove back through the
38:26
area where he had hit Mickey to see if
38:28
the police had shown up. When
38:30
he didn't see anything, he went back home. Realizing
38:46
he was pretty badly injured, Brandon called a
38:49
friend and said he had been stabbed in
38:51
a fight and he put the
38:53
stabbing incident as happening in New Orleans and
38:55
he went to a hospital out there because
38:57
it gave him a bit of an alibi.
39:00
As he drove towards New Orleans, he realized he still
39:02
had Mickey's bike in the bed of his truck, so
39:04
he threw it off the bridge. A
39:08
few days after Mickey's death, Brandon went back
39:10
to where her body was in order to
39:12
bury it. When he
39:14
learned that his truck was spotted on
39:17
the CCTV, he destroyed it in Texas,
39:19
hoping the investigators in Louisiana wouldn't find
39:21
out about it. He then
39:23
wanted to buy the same exact truck and
39:25
it seems like he thought this would throw
39:27
everyone off the trail. No
39:29
one in his life would notice that he got rid
39:31
of a white truck because he
39:34
just replaced it with a nearly
39:36
identical one. And
39:38
if the police came around because of his
39:40
white truck, he could say, oh no, I
39:42
just bought it. That's
39:45
Brandon's story and while some of what
39:47
he said aligns with the evidence, there
39:49
are parts that we can't know. Like,
39:52
did he really hit Mickey
39:55
unintentionally? Did she really get
39:57
in the car with him willingly? Did
39:59
she make some? stab him while he was
40:01
about to drive her home or was
40:03
there another reason she felt the need
40:05
to defend herself? We
40:07
don't know and we can't know because the
40:09
only person who lived to tell the tale
40:11
has incentive to downplay what he did. But
40:14
when someone has killed two people and
40:17
claims some type of provocation both
40:19
times, I have to wonder
40:22
about the reliability of his statements because
40:24
most people are never provoked
40:27
to kill anyone, let alone
40:29
two times. Prior
40:31
to making his official guilty plea in
40:33
court, Brandon did have a psychological exam
40:36
to make sure he was competent to take the
40:38
steal. Most of
40:40
the report relied on Brandon's self-report where
40:43
he said he had a troubled childhood
40:45
with an abusive father and
40:47
a teenage babysitter who molested
40:49
him repeatedly when he was preschool
40:51
age. As a teenager,
40:54
he was treated for anger and depression
40:56
with a 30-day inpatient hospital
40:58
stay. The
41:00
psychologist found that Brandon was competent
41:02
to make this plea and though
41:05
he was impulsive and indulgent, he
41:07
didn't have significant mental illness.
41:11
On Friday, August 17, 2012,
41:13
Brandon Laverne pleaded guilty to
41:15
both murders and was sentenced
41:17
to life in prison. Afterwards,
41:21
Mickey's mother Nancy released
41:23
a statement saying that her courageous
41:25
child had faced down a monster
41:28
and she was in awe
41:30
of Mickey's strength in fighting him. With
41:33
Brandon having killed two women in 13
41:35
years, there were investigations into if there
41:38
were other victims either prior to Brandon
41:40
going to prison in February of 2000
41:42
or after his release
41:44
in April of 2008. And
41:48
one of those cases looked into was
41:50
that of Allie Lowitzer, a
41:52
16-year-old who went missing from Spring, Texas in 2010.
41:56
Brandon had family in that area and one
41:58
witness said Allie had been talking to someone
42:00
in a white truck on the afternoon
42:02
of her disappearance. Some
42:05
reports say that the white truck that Brandon
42:07
owned at the time matched the
42:09
partial license plate that the
42:11
tipster had remembered. Brandon
42:14
was interviewed in the case, but he denied
42:16
any involvement. He said he was
42:18
in Louisiana at the time, and this has apparently been
42:20
backed up by his employer.
42:23
Brandon didn't have the type of job that he
42:25
could just take off from unnoticed. He was working
42:27
offshore at the time. So if
42:29
he was out on an oil rig, he
42:31
would have needed a boat to have gotten
42:33
back to land. Next
42:36
month I'm going to cover Ali's case in
42:38
detail, so we'll get into the other tips
42:40
and leads in that case in
42:42
April. Brandon
42:44
has not confessed to any more
42:46
murders, and likely will not. I
42:49
say that because he has tried
42:51
to appeal his plea and sentence
42:53
repeatedly, saying he was pressured into
42:55
pleading guilty due to pretrial publicity
42:58
and the fear of the death penalty. But
43:01
the courts have continued to deny him
43:03
since he has, in their opinion, yet
43:06
to show that he has any
43:08
constitutional right that was violated. That's
43:11
the only way he can legally reverse his
43:14
situation. The most recent denial was
43:16
in 2023. Brandon's
43:19
denial in 2018, though, is the one
43:22
that has gotten the most publicity because
43:24
he attempted to escape from
43:26
Angola prison shortly after. According
43:29
to prison officials, he tried to make a run for it at
43:31
4.30 in the morning on October
43:33
15, 2018,
43:36
but he never even made it to
43:38
the fence before he was stopped without
43:40
incident. Angola
43:42
is one of those prisons that is
43:44
known for being hard to escape from.
43:46
It's not Alcatraz, but it is huge
43:48
and it has alarms that go off
43:50
any time there's an issue. And
43:53
it's also in a remote swampy area, so
43:55
even if you get outside the fence, where
43:57
are you going? After
43:59
this is escape attempt, the station KATC got
44:02
Brandon's records from Angola to see
44:04
if he's been in trouble before.
44:06
Now, getting into trouble in prison
44:08
is really easy. You can get
44:10
written up for pretty much anything,
44:12
but there was something that stood out to me
44:14
in what was reported. He got
44:17
in trouble for repeatedly trying to contact
44:19
one of the victim's family members. He
44:21
was told not to contact them, so he
44:23
sent letters to his family to ask them
44:26
to give them to the people he wasn't
44:28
supposed to be contacting. If
44:30
the victim's family doesn't want contact with
44:33
the confessed killer of their loved one,
44:35
just leave them alone. In
44:38
addition to Brandon's attempts to appeal his
44:40
guilty plea and life sentences, he did
44:42
submit several court filings for a variety
44:45
of issues. Most of
44:47
the suits were filed in 2013 and then
44:49
immediately appealed when they were denied in 2014.
44:53
There are some outside of this timeframe,
44:55
but the majority were in this block.
44:57
From late June 2013 until
45:00
early July, he filed by my count
45:02
22 lawsuits. Brandon
45:05
has an IQ of 116, which is above average. I
45:09
almost wonder if he was bored, and this
45:11
is what stimulated his brain as he adjusted
45:13
to prison. He has
45:15
attempted to sue various people connected
45:17
to the case, like investigators and
45:19
witnesses. He tried to
45:21
sue the appellate judges for civil rights
45:24
violations. And he
45:26
tried to sue a private website for civil
45:28
rights violations, except private websites aren't agents of
45:30
the state, so that didn't go anywhere. There's
45:33
only one lawsuit I really wanted to talk
45:35
about for a minute, and that is when
45:38
he sued Dateline. Dateline aired
45:40
an episode on this case called Missing
45:42
Mickey, really showcasing the work her sister
45:44
Charlie did to look for her and
45:47
how much the community rallied. But
45:49
obviously it also covered Brandon Laverne,
45:51
and he didn't like how he
45:53
was portrayed. I
45:56
of course had to double check what facts I
45:58
got from Dateline as one of my sources. against
46:00
his claims of defamation for
46:03
something to be defamatory, it has to
46:05
be untrue. So these are the things
46:07
Brandon claimed were in the Dateline episode
46:09
that were lies. The
46:11
first was the reporting on his
46:13
use of escort services. I
46:16
did not include that except to say he
46:18
was calling such services that night. And
46:20
that is according to the police document, which is
46:22
linked in my sources, so take it up with
46:25
them. The second on truth,
46:27
according to Brandon, was that Dateline claimed
46:29
he was in close pursuit of Mickey
46:31
prior to her murder. Now that
46:34
feels like an interpretation or a
46:36
characterization of the events. How
46:38
close is close? And
46:40
he claimed he wasn't pursuing her at all
46:42
and hitting her was unintentional, but that's definitely
46:44
not what everyone thinks happened. This
46:47
is a bit of a gray area. In
46:49
this episode, I decided to stick with
46:51
his confession as he told it, but
46:53
also pointing out that he
46:55
had some motivation to make himself look better.
46:58
The third complaint in this suit
47:01
was that Dateline said Brandon seduced
47:03
women and had multiple girlfriends at
47:05
the time. I left
47:07
that claim out of this episode because it was
47:10
really irrelevant to the case, in my opinion. I
47:13
used to try to shoehorn in every little
47:15
detail I learned about a case and
47:17
the people who were involved, but I've gotten a
47:19
lot better at leaving things out that
47:21
are really besides the point. I
47:24
don't know, nor do I care, how
47:26
many girlfriends Brandon had. The
47:29
fourth supposed falsehood was the
47:31
implication that because Brandon committed
47:34
the murders of two women,
47:37
that could lead one to conclude
47:39
that he killed other women. Now
47:42
this one, I did do, but it's factual
47:44
that the police looked into other potential victims
47:47
after his arrest. So I'm not
47:49
saying we can say for certainty that he killed
47:51
anyone else, but I am saying it's worth looking
47:53
into, and the police agreed. So again,
47:55
take it up with them. The
47:58
fifth allegedly defamatory statement was
48:00
the conclusion made that Mickey's
48:03
murder was brutal. This
48:05
is so subjective, and
48:08
I'll just go ahead and leave it up
48:10
to my listeners to decide if being stabbed
48:12
multiple times and then shot in the head
48:15
is brutal or not. The
48:17
sixth issue raised was that they
48:19
talked about Brandon's impairment from
48:21
drugs and or alcohol on
48:23
the night Mickey was murdered. According
48:26
to his own statement to the
48:28
police, he was drinking, so
48:31
I'm not sure where the issue is
48:33
here. If there is a complaint about
48:35
someone reporting on that, then Brandon needs
48:37
to take it up with himself. Now
48:40
the final thing he objected to was
48:42
Dateline referring to his quote, dark side.
48:45
And there really isn't much to say on this
48:47
one except Dateline's writers like to use a little
48:50
bit more flair than I do. Now
48:53
in the same suit, Brandon also accused
48:55
Dateline of FAST when they showed pictures
48:57
from his computer and his iPhone as
49:00
well as his driver's license. He was
49:02
basically saying they stole his
49:04
intellectual property and he
49:07
claimed a civil rights violation. But again,
49:09
Dateline and NBC are not government
49:11
entities. They are private companies. So that
49:14
was quickly dismissed. As
49:17
for the defamation claims, some of the
49:19
statements were connected to the case that
49:21
he pleaded guilty on. So
49:23
the court ruled that they couldn't
49:25
be defamatory until they were proven
49:27
untrue by having his conviction reversed,
49:29
which it wasn't. And
49:31
on any of the others, even
49:33
if they were untrue, the
49:36
amount they could damage
49:38
the reputation of a
49:40
convicted sex offender and twice convicted
49:42
murderer was so small. When
49:45
your reputation is essentially on the
49:47
floor, the potential damages
49:50
is so low, the amount
49:52
he'd be entitled to would be nominal. Brandon
49:56
strongly disagreed. He argued he was
49:58
entitled to 10th. $10,000 per image shown,
50:00
$500,000 for mental anguish, $1 million for libel and
50:02
slander, and
50:08
then punitive damages of $10 million.
50:13
And Dateline should have to retract the episode.
50:16
When the lower court dismissed his claim,
50:18
he did appeal, but obviously he didn't
50:20
win since I watched the episode a
50:22
full 10 years later. The
50:25
appellate court didn't even write their own
50:27
analysis when affirming the lower court's religion,
50:29
they just wrote that they accepted the previous
50:32
court's analysis as factual. The
50:34
thing with Brandon's lawsuits is
50:36
that not all of them
50:39
were frivolous or legally barred from proceeding.
50:41
Some of them actually raised a good point.
50:45
Like he said, he was denied his
50:47
CPAP machine and lockup, which is
50:49
a medical issue, and the medical care
50:51
received by inmates is something that
50:53
needs more public awareness. And
50:56
he had other things in there like
50:58
how his mail, including legal mail, was
51:00
being limited, and then there were
51:02
issues of being able to have visits with his
51:04
daughter. Those are issues
51:06
Brandon could have, if he put his mind to
51:08
it, advocated for from behind
51:10
bars and they would have helped
51:13
more people beyond himself. But
51:15
they mostly got ignored because he has
51:18
so many filings of all of these
51:20
claims and trying to sue his ex-wife
51:22
for defamation for something she said to
51:24
the police and things like that, it
51:26
got all mixed in there. And
51:29
so it got no attention. Had
51:31
he chosen to do so, if he focused up,
51:33
he could have done some good with his intelligence.
51:36
And maybe someday he will. Because
51:38
at 45 years old and with two
51:40
life sentences ahead of him, it definitely
51:42
looks like he has plenty of time
51:44
to do so. Thank
51:49
you for listening. If you want more
51:51
content, check out my other show, Crimelines
51:53
and Consequences, wherever you get your podcasts.
51:56
I also offer bonus content and ad-free
51:58
listening at patreon.com/crimelines or through the Apple
52:00
Podcast app. If you want to buy me a coffee,
52:02
the official Drink Up! crime line, you can give
52:04
a one-time donation at basementfloorproductions.com slash...
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