0:00

Your journey to justice is just a

0:02

phone call or click away at 1-800-NJ-LEGAL

0:04

or 1-800-nj-legal.com powered

0:07

by the Hadad Law Firm. Your trusted

0:10

personal injury advocate, handling auto truck accidents,

0:12

slip and falls, and injuries at work,

0:14

they're more than attorneys. They specialize in

0:17

safeguarding your well-being. Serving clients proudly throughout

0:19

New Jersey and beyond, the Hadad Law

0:21

Firm is poised to champion your capes.

0:24

Connect with them today at 1-800-NJ-LEGAL or

0:26

visit 1-800-nj-legal.com It

0:54

is time for the April Patreon birthday shout-outs. April

1:05

is my birth month, so these are

1:07

my fellow Aries and Tauruses. Those are

1:09

literally like the only two signs I

1:11

know because of my birthday. Anyway,

1:15

we are going to

1:17

say a very happy

1:19

birthday to Zoe, Vicki,

1:21

Helen, Despina, Denise, Annabelle,

1:23

and Ruth who are

1:25

both having a big

1:27

birthday this year, Jessica,

1:29

Laura, Jana, Sarah, Maria,

1:32

Quinn, Lark, Debbie,

1:34

Kate, and my birthday twin

1:36

on the 18th, Leanna. I

1:39

know I am looking forward to

1:41

a year filled with endless possibilities

1:43

and I hope that is true

1:46

for everyone celebrating this month with

1:48

me. So to my April birthday

1:50

patrons, happy birthday. In

2:04

1995, 15-year-old Nicole van den Herc disappeared

2:06

on her way to work. Her family

2:08

fought for years to get justice for

2:11

her, sometimes going to extremes. In

2:13

the end, they got justice and changed

2:15

how the Dutch court system recognized families.

2:17

I'm Charlie and welcome to Crimelines. I

2:30

want to start very briefly by giving

2:33

a huge thank you to everyone who

2:35

has supported the new Patreon and Apple

2:37

subscription show Beyond the Files, where I

2:39

take 22-minute-long Forensic Files episodes, research the

2:41

cases the way I usually do, and

2:44

then come up with a Crimelines-like presentation.

2:47

The first episode is out now

2:50

and that 22-minute episode turned into

2:52

a 50-minute podcast. I

2:54

have heard from two people who want

2:56

to listen to the show and get

2:58

Crimelines ad-free, but they don't use Apple

3:01

products and they don't like

3:03

the Patreon platform, which I fully understand.

3:05

I have been in talks with another

3:07

company called Supercast to put the show

3:10

on there as well. Supercast very easily

3:12

lets you get the show in any

3:14

podcast app you use and I should

3:16

probably have that up and running by

3:19

the end of May, the beginning of

3:21

June, and I'll keep you updated. But

3:24

of course, Crimelines isn't going anywhere

3:26

and there will always be plenty

3:28

of content here completely free for

3:30

everybody who wants it. I

3:33

want to thank Kelly for recommending this

3:36

case. I do have a feeling that

3:38

someone else also recommended it to me,

3:40

but I only have one name on the

3:42

spreadsheet. So if you also recommended this

3:44

case, just let me know and I'll give you a

3:46

shout-out on the next episode. I have

3:49

never covered a case from the

3:51

Netherlands before, so as always, thank

3:53

you to Google Translate for your

3:55

tireless effort. I was

3:57

even able to get an entire court filing.

4:00

translated pretty accurately. Most

4:03

of the media sources are from Eidenhoven Dachblad

4:05

and it will be linked in the show

4:07

notes because I am not trying to say

4:09

that again. Let's go ahead and

4:12

get started with Nicole Vanden Hercke, who

4:14

was born Nicole Tetmeier in

4:16

Germany on July 4th,

4:18

1980. Her mother Angelica

4:20

was single and no father was put

4:22

on her birth certificate initially. The

4:25

man that Angelica said was Nicole's father

4:27

was married at the time and

4:29

though she insisted he was a father, he did ask

4:32

for a blood test. This

4:34

was pre-DNA paternity testing so

4:36

I imagine it was blood

4:38

typing. He was determined

4:40

to be the father when Nicole was about a

4:43

year old and then he was added

4:45

to her birth certificate. Now it doesn't

4:47

seem like he was involved in her life very

4:49

much aside from paying child support. Soon

4:52

Angelica had a new man in her

4:54

life, Ad Vanden Hercke, who was from

4:56

the Netherlands. He

4:58

already had a daughter and three

5:00

sons from his previous marriages but

5:03

he did not shy away from taking

5:05

on the role as Nicole's father.

5:07

When she was two,

5:09

this little family, Angelica, Ad,

5:12

and Nicole, all moved to

5:14

the Netherlands together. After Angelica

5:16

and Ad married, he filed to

5:18

be legally recognized as Nicole's father

5:21

in the Netherlands. This

5:23

has the same legal standing as we would

5:25

have in the US with a stepparent adoption but

5:27

the process seems like it was a lot

5:29

easier. Because Angelica had

5:31

sole custody rights, the Netherlands

5:33

did not recognize her biological

5:35

father's paternity as a legal

5:38

matter. But the kicker

5:40

was this process wasn't legally

5:42

recognized in Germany so

5:44

Nicole was in an interesting spot of

5:47

having two legal fathers depending on what

5:49

country she was in. We

5:51

know her birth father didn't lose all rights

5:53

to her because he was still ordered to

5:55

pay child support but from Nicole's perspective,

5:57

Ad was her father. was

6:00

the one who was raising her.

6:03

In fact, when he and Angelica

6:05

separated and then later divorced in

6:07

1989, Odd was given custody

6:09

of Nicole. He then remarried a woman

6:11

named Yolanda who had a big hand

6:14

in caring for her day to day.

6:16

When Nicole was 14, in

6:18

April of 1995, her

6:21

mother Angelica died by suicide. It

6:23

was then Odd, Yolanda, and their family

6:25

who helped Nicole get through that summer

6:28

without her mother. In October

6:30

of that same year, Nicole had already turned

6:32

15 and she got

6:34

a job at a supermarket in Eindhoven.

6:37

She was staying with her grandmother who

6:39

lived close enough that she could ride

6:41

her bike to and from work. Early

6:45

on Friday, October 6, 1995,

6:48

a bit after 5 a.m., Nicole left

6:50

her grandmother's home on her bike to

6:52

go to work. Around

6:55

6 a.m., when she hadn't arrived,

6:57

a coworker went to check the

6:59

route she normally took to

7:01

see if they could find her along the

7:03

way. When they couldn't, they did report

7:05

that she hadn't turned up at work

7:08

to the police. But

7:10

it wasn't until the afternoon that

7:12

her family became concerned. Nicole

7:15

was supposed to pick up her sister

7:17

from school at 3.30, but she never

7:19

showed. She was again

7:22

reported missing at 4.10

7:24

p.m., this time by the family, and

7:27

the police took action. A formal

7:29

search for her started around 5

7:31

p.m. This

7:33

search sprawled out through the

7:36

city and around 6 p.m.,

7:38

officers found Nicole's gray bike in the

7:41

Domil River. It was about

7:43

halfway between her grandmother's home and

7:45

the shopping center where she worked.

7:48

With the bicycle found in the

7:50

river, divers immediately entered

7:52

the water to search, but

7:55

they couldn't find anything. Over

7:58

the next several days, massive searches

8:00

continued. There was an extensive

8:02

search of a wooded park in

8:04

town that the river runs through,

8:07

though it's not clear if a tip

8:09

brought them out there or it was

8:11

just another place to look. They

8:14

brought in a plane to do

8:16

an aerial search, and then they

8:18

turned to the overflow sewers near

8:20

the river, but again, nothing was

8:23

found. All

8:25

of Nicole's family, friends, classmates,

8:27

they were interviewed hoping they

8:30

had some information. Was Nicole

8:34

known to be talking to anyone? Did

8:36

she have a boyfriend? Had she talked

8:38

about running away? They

8:40

even interviewed a group of teens

8:42

who had been detained for tormenting

8:44

people on the bike path in

8:47

that same area Nicole would have been riding

8:49

to work. Some of them

8:51

knew Nicole from school, though it looks like

8:53

based on the timeline that they had been

8:55

taken in and detained

8:58

before she went missing. The

9:00

investigators must have thought they might know something, but

9:03

it doesn't look like they did. The

9:05

only thing out of the ordinary in Nicole's

9:08

life was something she told her aunt. The

9:11

day before she disappeared, she mentioned

9:13

that she was riding her bike

9:15

to work, and then

9:17

some strange man tried to jump

9:19

on the back. He didn't

9:21

manage it, but it was weird and it freaked

9:23

her out a bit. By October

9:26

11th, the police had gotten over 100 tips

9:29

that they were working through, and some

9:31

of these tips came through psychics.

9:34

Some were unsolicited, but

9:36

some were contacted by Nicole's father,

9:38

Ad, and her stepmother, Yolanda. On

9:42

October 17th, after yet another

9:44

search, the investigators concluded that

9:47

Nicole was definitely not in the river.

9:49

And by this

9:51

point, the case had turned

9:53

into a media frenzy. Some

9:56

of that had to do with the circumstances.

9:58

She was a pretty young teenager. who went

10:00

missing in a city with a

10:02

low crime rate. That

10:05

was terrifying for people, particularly

10:07

parents. But some of the

10:09

media interest in the case had to do

10:11

with her father, Ad van den Herc, who

10:13

was also known as Andy

10:15

DeWitt, a singer. I have

10:18

messed up my algorithm for my

10:20

favorite streaming service by searching up

10:23

his music, and I'm not

10:25

really sure how to describe it. It

10:27

sounds kind of like 80s pop but

10:29

a little folksy too, but I

10:31

don't know what Dutch folk music sounds like,

10:33

but it probably sounds like this is my

10:35

guess. Ad had a couple

10:37

albums, and I'm not sure how popular he was

10:40

as far as the general public

10:42

goes, but he was definitely popular

10:44

enough that the media interest in

10:47

this case was pretty high. And

10:50

Ad used that for sure to

10:52

his advantage. His daughter was missing,

10:54

he'd do whatever he could to get her picture in

10:56

front of the public. He had

10:58

cameras rolling when he walked the path

11:00

Nicole had likely been writing that day,

11:02

and he brought with him a psychic

11:04

who was trying to get a reading

11:06

on where she could have gone. The

11:09

police reportedly weren't too thrilled with

11:12

the family's insistence on psychics being

11:14

used, particularly as it

11:16

started attracting media attention of

11:18

all types, which included tabloids.

11:21

But as a parent, I imagine they just

11:24

wanted answers that they weren't getting from the

11:26

police, and if that meant talking to psychics,

11:28

that's what it meant. The

11:30

case did get another lead on

11:33

October 19th when something more earthly

11:35

was found, and that was Nicole's

11:37

small black backpack. It

11:40

was found tangled up in a bramble

11:42

bush next to a bike path that

11:44

ran along the canal. So

11:47

the search moved to that area. Again,

11:49

there was a search of the water, but

11:52

also the banks of the canal, and they

11:54

even had a cadaver dog who

11:56

was specifically trained to work in

11:58

and around water. Unfortunately,

12:01

it was just yet another search

12:04

that gave no clues as to

12:06

where Nicole went. The

12:09

physical searches were making the news,

12:11

but early on at least, some

12:13

other avenues that were being explored

12:15

were done so a little less

12:17

publicly. And one of

12:19

those was reaching out to Nicole's German

12:21

family, both her mother's side and her

12:24

birth father's side. The

12:26

theory they were exploring was that either

12:28

a family member had taken her back

12:30

to Germany or Nicole had run away

12:33

to be with them. Things

12:36

were pretty delicate with this

12:38

situation. Odd viewed

12:40

Nicole as his daughter, full

12:42

stop. He did not

12:45

like when papers picked up

12:47

news about her having another

12:49

father in Germany. And

12:51

one publication said he threatened to sue them

12:54

if they ran the story about it. He

12:57

insisted that Nicole's mother told him he

12:59

was the biological father, though the father

13:01

in Germany, who had been paying child

13:03

support for all those years, said

13:05

that Odd and Angelica hadn't even met

13:08

at the time she got pregnant. This

13:11

was a very difficult situation for the

13:13

family on a personal level and I

13:16

can't imagine going through those feelings

13:18

while also dealing with a case

13:20

like this in the public eye.

13:23

But the investigators had to look at

13:25

all the possibilities regardless and those things

13:28

ended up getting reported on. The

13:31

investigators found no signs Nicole

13:33

had gone to Germany or had

13:35

gone anywhere else, though the possibility

13:37

she ran away was still on

13:39

the table. They got

13:42

a tip on October 24th that

13:44

Nicole was spotted at a gas

13:46

station in Venlo on October

13:48

6th. Venlo is a

13:50

border town. It's on the Dutch-German border.

13:53

And this man who saw Nicole or

13:55

thought he saw her did

13:57

know her. He didn't know her well. But

14:00

a sighting by someone even a little

14:02

familiar with the missing person is always

14:04

something to follow up on. But

14:07

this lead, like hundreds of others,

14:09

led nowhere. Nicole's family

14:11

thought the police were on the wrong track

14:13

entirely with both their running away theory and

14:16

the idea she would have gone to Germany.

14:19

On November 21st, it was

14:21

announced that the family was starting

14:23

a formal organization so

14:25

that they could raise money

14:27

for searches, printing flyers, and

14:30

all the other expenses that have to

14:32

do with searching for your missing loved

14:34

one. But then, on

14:36

the very next day after this announcement was

14:39

made, on November 22nd, 1995, 15-year-old

14:43

Nicole Venn and Herc's body

14:46

was found about 30 minutes

14:49

east of Eindhoven. A

14:51

hiker was going through the woods around

14:54

1230 in the afternoon when something caught

14:56

their eye. They looked closer

14:58

and realized that it was a body

15:00

hidden under some branches. The

15:03

state of Nicole's remains indicated that

15:05

she had been dead for a

15:07

while and very possibly since the

15:09

day she was last seen. Though

15:12

the specific cause of death could not be

15:14

determined due to the state of her remains,

15:17

there were sharp edge cuts on the

15:19

left side of her forehead and

15:22

her jaw was fractured. She

15:24

also had an injury to her rib

15:26

that was likely the result of a

15:28

stabbing. The

15:31

police knew now that Nicole hadn't

15:33

just run away and

15:35

finding her body did bring in some more tips,

15:38

but by the middle of January,

15:40

the investigation was starting to lull.

15:44

To try to get more tips coming in, the

15:47

police played a phone call they had gotten back

15:49

in the early days of the investigation

15:51

while Nicole was still missing. The

15:54

caller did not identify himself, but he

15:56

said he knew who killed Nicole. But

15:59

then he hung up. hung up. They hoped

16:01

by broadcasting the call, they

16:04

would get somebody who recognized his voice

16:06

to call in and they could either

16:08

follow up on it and see what

16:11

he knew or rule it out

16:13

as a possible prank or hoax.

16:16

But whatever they did find out through

16:18

this investigation, it didn't lead the case

16:20

forward. On January 17th, 1996,

16:22

they greatly reduced the number of

16:27

people working on the case to just four

16:29

and they were only going

16:31

to follow up on tips that came in.

16:34

And though the tips did slow down,

16:36

one that got media attention came in

16:38

on February 8th. A

16:41

girl from Eindhoven, who we will

16:43

call Elise, was arrested in Miami

16:45

on suspicion of drug smuggling. She

16:48

told the police that she had been forced

16:51

by a drug gang to smuggle the drugs

16:53

and that gang had been

16:56

behind Nicole's murder. And

17:22

today my listeners get an exclusive offer of 20%

17:24

off plus free shipping. Just text Crimelines

17:29

to 64000 because you are going to want to

17:31

try that Ultimate Sampler Pack. You

17:34

get to try all of the products and flavors. IQ Bars

17:37

are plant protein bars that are vegan, gluten-free,

17:42

and low in sugar and carbs. And

17:44

I've loved every flavor I've tried. And

17:46

I have the refreshing IQ Mix, which

17:48

is a zero sugar drink mix that

17:50

hydrates with electrolytes, and

17:52

for some jitter-free instant coffee, they have IQ bars. Joe,

18:00

which is packed with 200 milligrams of

18:02

natural caffeine and brain-boosting magnesium in

18:04

four delicious flavors. Refuel Smarter with

18:07

IQ Bar's Ultimate Sampler Pack. That's

18:09

seven IQ bars, four IQ mix

18:11

sticks, and four IQ Joe sticks.

18:13

And now my special podcast listeners

18:16

get 20% off all IQ

18:18

Bar products, plus free shipping. To get

18:20

your 20% off, just text

18:22

CRIMELINE264000. Get

18:24

your discount text CRIMELINE264000. That's

18:29

C-R-I-M-E-L-I-N-E-S-2-6-4-0-0-0. Message

18:33

and data rates may apply C-terms for details.

18:37

Some people just know the best rate for

18:39

you is a rate based on you. With

18:41

Austin, not one based on the driver who

18:43

treats the highway like a racetrack and the

18:45

shoulder like a passing lane. Why

18:48

pay a rate based on anyone else? What one

18:50

based on you with drive-wise from

18:52

Austin? Not available in Alaska or

18:54

California, subject to terms and conditions. Rates are determined by

18:56

several factors which vary by state. In some states, participation

18:58

in drive-wise allows Austin to use her driving data for purposes

19:00

of waiting. While in some states, your rate could increase with high

19:02

risk driving generally, safer drivers will stay with drive-wise. All state bar

19:04

and casualty insurance company and affiliates are in Spoke, Illinois. When

19:13

this information was provided to Nicole's family,

19:15

Och said he knew who Elise was.

19:18

She did know Nicole, and at the

19:20

time, he leaned towards believing her. I'm

19:24

not sure if it's because he

19:26

knew Elise to be an honest

19:28

and trustworthy person or if

19:31

three months after Nicole's body was found,

19:33

he was just desperate for a resolution

19:36

and he wanted

19:38

to believe her. Investigators

19:41

from Eindhoven traveled to Miami in mid-March to

19:44

speak with Elise and she was then returned

19:46

to the Netherlands. Due

19:48

to inconsistencies in her story,

19:50

the police soon dropped the

19:52

lead and instead pivoted

19:54

to look closer to home. In

19:58

late April, Och complained to the media. that

20:00

the police, instead of looking for

20:02

Nicole's real killer, were instead focusing

20:05

on the family. Specifically,

20:07

they were looking at the men in

20:09

the family, like Odd's adult sons. On

20:12

May 22, 1996,

20:14

they arrested Nicole's 21-year-old stepbrother,

20:17

Andy, on suspicion of

20:19

involvement in Nicole's death, and

20:21

that allowed them to detain him for

20:23

questioning. Andy had been

20:25

born during one of Odd's previous marriages that ended in

20:28

1978, and his mother did

20:32

not give him the Vanden Hurd surname because

20:34

she didn't really want him connected to his father.

20:37

In spite of that, Odd tried to build a

20:40

relationship with his son, and

20:42

Andy did visit on occasion.

20:45

He ended up living with his dad for a

20:47

period of time when he was 12 and Nicole

20:49

was 7, but it

20:51

didn't last long. Odd

20:53

later described his relationship with Nicole

20:56

as more like cousins than

20:58

brother and sister. The

21:00

police said they suspected Andy as a

21:02

result of their investigation, and we don't

21:05

know exactly what that means, but we

21:07

do know that Andy had a rough

21:09

life. Odd himself called

21:12

Andy unstable, though he regretted saying

21:14

that quite that way later on.

21:17

But the truth was, Andy struggled

21:19

significantly with his mental health, starting

21:21

at the age 13

21:23

and continuing for his entire life. With

21:26

his depression and anxiety resistant to

21:28

treatment, he used substances to cope,

21:30

and he was bouncing from place

21:32

to place without much of

21:35

a steady living arrangement at the time.

21:38

Andy was held in question for five

21:40

days before he was released. There

21:43

was nothing to tie him to Nicole's

21:45

murder, so they had no choice but

21:47

to release him without charge. And

21:51

then a week and a half later, on June

21:53

7th, the police made another arrest in the case,

21:55

and this time it was odd. Based

21:58

on one interview I've seen, the police were in the case

22:00

of a man who was a victim read a

22:02

translation of, it sounds like Odd thought his media

22:04

offensive was part of why he was suspected. He

22:07

said he didn't expect it to have

22:09

that effect, meaning having everyone including the

22:11

police watching his every move and side-eyeing

22:13

him. And I think

22:16

this catches a lot of families

22:18

off guard when they realize after

22:20

doing media appearances how harshly they

22:22

are being judged for what they

22:24

say and how they say it.

22:27

What Odd knew at the time was that

22:29

he had a little more fame than the

22:31

average person and his child was missing, so

22:34

he leveraged his fame in a way

22:36

he thought would help. Like

22:39

with Andy, Odd was questioned and

22:41

then released after five days when

22:43

there was quote, no reasonable suspicion

22:45

of guilt. The

22:48

investigators have not said what

22:50

led them specifically to suspect

22:52

either Andy or Odd and

22:54

then what led them away

22:56

from them. But that is

22:58

pretty typical in the Dutch

23:00

system. They usually don't release

23:02

much about suspects for people's

23:04

privacy. It is so different

23:06

from here in the US where I know

23:08

a lot of details about a lot of

23:11

people who were suspected but never convicted of

23:13

a crime. After

23:15

these two arrests, the case cooled way

23:17

down. Aside from assuring the public that

23:20

it was still being worked on,

23:22

there was a little reporting on this

23:24

case for several years. By

23:27

mid 2004, the case had been

23:29

reviewed completely by a national

23:32

investigatory team and they had done

23:34

a full inventory of the evidence,

23:36

what leads had been followed through

23:38

on, which ones had not been,

23:41

and they created a report. That

23:44

report was then given to a cold

23:46

case team who spent several months reinvestigating

23:49

the case. But

23:51

by the end of the year, this

23:54

investigation had finished with no answers. By

23:57

this point, Nicole's family was finding

23:59

their footing again after many years

24:01

of struggling under their grief and

24:04

the injustice of it all. Ad

24:07

and Yolanda ended up splitting up

24:09

with Ad moving to Spain. His

24:12

music career in the Netherlands was all

24:14

but over, so he was working as

24:16

a lyricist instead. Nicole's

24:18

stepbrother, Andy, moved to England.

24:22

And that's where he was living when, on

24:24

March 8, 2011, out of nowhere, a confession

24:26

came in.

24:29

Andy took to Facebook and posted that

24:31

he was going to be arrested for

24:33

Nicole's murder because he confessed.

24:36

He wrote that he would be in contact soon.

24:40

Andy was then arrested by the

24:42

British police. Andy's

24:44

attorney in England pretty much

24:46

immediately asked for a psychological

24:48

examination, but the judge

24:50

was ready to just get Andy back to

24:52

the Netherlands and let it be dealt with

24:55

in their jurisdiction. So

24:57

Andy returned to the Netherlands in

24:59

custody on March 30, and he

25:01

was held for five days as

25:03

allowed under the law. While

25:06

in custody, Andy denied that

25:08

he had killed Nicole, and

25:10

he made some pretty serious

25:12

accusations against his father, including

25:15

that his father had abused

25:17

and killed Nicole. The

25:20

investigators did not believe him. He was still

25:22

their suspect, and they wanted to hold him

25:24

longer than the five days. A

25:27

magistrate, however, said that they couldn't

25:29

keep holding him because they didn't

25:31

have any evidence against him. Andy's

25:34

Facebook post was pretty much the

25:37

only evidence, and it wasn't really

25:39

a confession. It was

25:41

just him saying he confessed without

25:43

him actually saying what he did.

25:47

Andy would later say in 2016

25:49

that the goal of his confession

25:51

was to get the case reopened

25:53

and reinvestigated, and he

25:55

recognized that it was a risky thing to

25:57

do because it could have meant he got

25:59

wrong. railroaded for the murder

26:01

himself. But it

26:03

did end up working in the sense that

26:05

it did get the case looked at again.

26:08

The investigators weren't sure that Andy didn't do

26:10

it, so I imagine some of them hoped

26:12

the evidence found would prove their case for

26:14

them. In looking at

26:16

old evidence that they had in storage from 1995, they identified

26:18

a few things to

26:22

send in for more advanced DNA

26:24

testing, which included a

26:26

few clothing items and swabs from

26:29

Nicole's autopsy, particularly

26:31

the ones taken during the

26:33

sexual assault evidence collection. Though

26:36

Nicole had been found clothed, they believed

26:38

she had been raped, so these swabs

26:41

had been saved. And

26:43

while those items were sent for

26:46

more advanced DNA testing, Nicole's body

26:48

was exhumed on September 9, 2011.

26:52

Four days later, the investigators announced that

26:54

they had found what they believed to

26:57

be traces of the person

26:59

they believed was the killer, and they

27:01

identified them on her body but rather

27:03

from those old swabs. Unfortunately,

27:06

the new examinations of Nicole's remains

27:08

did not provide additional DNA, but

27:12

the DNA they got from the

27:14

old evidence had two distinct male

27:16

profiles, and they believed that they

27:18

had come from sperm. They

27:21

were able to identify one of the

27:23

contributors as they ran the DNA against

27:25

people in Nicole's life, and it came

27:28

back as belonging to her boyfriend. The

27:30

other sample was an unknown male. But

27:34

there were some issues with this

27:36

DNA. It was a mixed sample,

27:38

and there was possibly a third

27:40

contributor. There were parts

27:42

that didn't match either the boyfriend or

27:44

the unknown male. It

27:47

was possible that this was due

27:49

to contamination. Nicole's body

27:51

had been left out in the

27:53

elements for seven weeks, and the

27:56

collection and storage practices of

27:58

the 1990s left. much

28:00

to be desired. We

28:02

see contamination issues in DNA today

28:04

with all we know about storage

28:06

and collection, so just imagine what

28:08

happened with these from 1995 until

28:10

2011. There are some

28:16

places that report that Nicole's

28:18

stepbrother Andy could not be excluded

28:20

as the third contributor. There

28:23

are some that say he was definitely the

28:25

third contributor, but I cannot find out where

28:27

that's coming from. I have

28:29

not found an official source as in

28:31

with the police saying it and

28:34

the court papers that I have access

28:36

to actually says the

28:38

opposite. It says that there were

28:40

no similarities with the DNA profiles

28:43

of suspects or other people involved

28:45

and we could assume that includes Andy as

28:48

he was a suspect at the time the

28:50

tests were run. So

28:52

I don't know where that piece of information is coming

28:54

from, but if anyone out there

28:56

does know where this information is coming from,

28:58

please email it to me and help clear

29:00

up my confusion on why some reports are

29:02

saying one thing but the court is saying

29:05

something else. It

29:07

may have helped if they could figure out

29:09

who this mysterious DNA belonged to because

29:11

then they could investigate that person

29:13

and rule them in or out.

29:15

The unknown contributor of the DNA

29:18

was going to be an issue

29:20

at any trial because it's handing

29:22

the defense a reasonable alternative suspect.

29:25

But they would have to get this case

29:27

to trial before they could even cross that

29:29

bridge. And step one

29:31

was to figure out who the unknown

29:33

male DNA belonged to. This

29:36

was before forensic genetic genealogy was

29:38

used to find people, but after

29:41

the Dutch had begun collecting DNA

29:43

from those convicted of crimes, they

29:46

had a database set up since the late

29:48

1990s and it was

29:50

overseen by the National Forensics Institute.

29:54

In looking at other

29:56

offenders from the Eindhoven

29:58

area, particularly the... convicted

30:01

of sex crimes, the

30:03

investigators asked the NFI

30:05

to compare the unknown

30:07

male profile to a

30:09

man who had attacked a young woman

30:11

who was riding her bike five

30:13

years after Nicole's murder. This

30:16

man is known as Josta Hay,

30:18

and Hay is the letter G.

30:21

In the Netherlands, journalists never

30:23

name suspects and even those

30:25

found guilty are generally

30:27

just referred to by their first name

30:30

and their last initial. This

30:32

is due to their code of ethics.

30:36

Using just a first name and

30:38

an initial leaves more room for

30:40

the presumption of innocence as well

30:42

as protecting the accused family from

30:45

unfair scrutiny and invasions of their

30:47

privacy. And even after

30:49

a person is convicted, they will likely

30:52

be released someday and deserve to be

30:54

able to reenter society after they've paid

30:56

their debt. So in

30:58

alignment with the Dutch standards, I'm just going

31:01

to stick with calling him Joss. Joss ended

31:04

up on the police radar in Nicole's case

31:06

because of the similarities in the circumstances

31:08

of her murder and

31:11

the person he was convicted of raping

31:13

five years later. On September

31:15

23rd, 2000, Joss hopped

31:17

on the back of a bike of a

31:19

young woman and he said

31:21

he was going to stab her if

31:23

she didn't continue writing. He

31:26

then took her to another location and

31:28

raped her. He was

31:30

convicted in January of 2001 for

31:32

that crime. There

31:34

were a few reasons this case seemed

31:37

similar to Nicole's. The first was that

31:39

the victim was riding a bicycle and

31:41

the second was she was threatened with a

31:43

knife, which is how they believe Nicole was

31:45

killed. And if you remember,

31:47

Nicole's aunt had said she complained about

31:49

a guy trying to jump on her

31:51

bike the day before she went missing.

31:55

Joss had also been accused in a 1987 rape,

31:57

which included the case of a young woman

31:59

who was included the woman riding a bike.

32:01

And in that case, he allegedly threw

32:03

the bike in a ditch prior to

32:05

the rape, not unlike

32:07

Nicole's bike being discarded in

32:09

the river. As

32:12

part of the rape case in

32:14

2000, Joss had to give a

32:16

DNA sample that was then in

32:19

the national database. So

32:21

on October 30, 2012,

32:23

the public prosecutor asked that the

32:25

DNA profile from Nicole's case be

32:28

compared directly against Joss's

32:30

DNA. That report

32:33

came back that he could not be

32:35

excluded as one of the donors of

32:37

the DNA found. This

32:39

wasn't a slam dunk, so additional testing

32:41

was done and they were able to

32:43

get a higher probability that it was

32:45

his DNA about a year later in October

32:47

of 2013. Also in 2013, they were able

32:50

to test a

32:54

hair that was found on Nicole's

32:56

jacket, testing that was impossible

32:58

in previous years. And

33:01

they got a result that the

33:03

mitochondrial DNA from that profile matched

33:06

Joss. While

33:08

waiting on testing, they were also

33:10

investigating Joss obviously as a potential

33:13

suspect, but it is hard to

33:15

verify someone's alibi from nearly 20

33:17

years before. But what

33:20

they did learn was that Joss reported

33:22

his car stolen on October 25,

33:25

less than three weeks after Nicole went

33:27

missing. The car was found

33:29

on December 1 in a river and

33:31

the key was in the ignition. So

33:34

maybe Joss had left the key in

33:36

his car and someone took it. Or

33:39

maybe he had to get rid

33:41

of it to hide the evidence

33:43

that he raped, killed, and or

33:45

transported a body in that vehicle.

34:00

really going to love, but also something they're

34:02

going to use. We all have too much

34:04

stuff just sitting around. And that's where the

34:06

skylight frame comes in. The skylight frame is

34:08

a touchscreen photo frame that your whole family

34:10

can upload photos to and they appear in

34:13

seconds. You get to share your

34:15

favorite moments with the people who matter

34:17

most to you. The perfect gift for

34:19

moms and grandmas. It is so

34:21

simple to use. The setup takes less than

34:23

60 seconds and the least tech savvy among

34:26

us, meaning me and my mother-in-law, even we

34:28

figured it out. The skylight frame has a

34:30

touchscreen so that you can swipe through photos

34:33

with your finger, but you can also

34:35

tap the heart button to thank the person

34:37

who sent that photo in. And what I

34:39

love is that anyone can send photos to

34:41

the frame in just seconds using email or

34:44

the app because then the photos aren't

34:46

just coming from me and they're from the whole

34:48

family. It holds thousands of

34:50

photos that'll continuously rotate throughout the

34:52

day and they offer 100% satisfaction

34:55

guaranteed. If you don't love your skylight, they'll

34:57

offer you a full refund. As a special

35:00

limited time offer for my listeners, get 15%

35:03

off your purchase

35:05

of a skylight

35:07

frame when you

35:09

go to skylightframe.com/crimelines.

35:11

That's skylightframe.com/crimelines. Mother's

35:14

Day is coming right up, so order today to get 15%

35:16

off your purchase at

35:19

skylightframe.com/crimelines. Your journey to

35:21

justice is just a phone call or

35:23

click away at 1-800-NJ-LEGAL or 1-800-nj-legal.com powered

35:28

by the Hadad Law Firm. Your trusted

35:30

personal injury advocate handling auto truck accidents,

35:32

slip and falls, and injuries at work.

35:35

They're more than attorneys. They specialize in

35:37

safeguarding your well-being. Serving clients proudly throughout

35:39

New Jersey and beyond the Hadad Law

35:42

Firm is poised to champion your case.

35:44

Connect with them today at 1-800-NJ-LEGAL or

35:46

visit 1-800-nj-legal.com. The

35:57

investigators tried to track the vehicle down, but...

35:59

But after it had been pulled from the water,

36:02

it was shipped to another country to be

36:04

used either in whole or peaced out and

36:06

there was just no way of getting it

36:09

back. But the

36:11

DNA results they had were enough to

36:13

get an arrest warrant for Joss and

36:16

he was arrested on January 14, 2014 on suspicion

36:18

of murder or manslaughter and on suspicion of

36:23

rape. At the

36:26

time, Joss was still on some type

36:28

of supervised release from his 2001 conviction.

36:33

So I'm going off Google Translations here,

36:35

apologies if my understanding is incorrect, but

36:37

it seems to me that in the

36:39

Netherlands they have an option to detain

36:41

people after they have served their prison

36:43

sentence if they would

36:46

benefit from continued treatment. It

36:49

is abbreviated to TBS and the

36:51

length of the treatment phase is

36:53

at the determination of the government.

36:56

The goal is to reduce the

36:58

rates of recidivism and high-risk offenders.

37:02

People who are on a

37:04

TBS-type plan live in clinics

37:07

or hospitals before they

37:09

are eventually allowed to start living

37:11

independently. They usually stay near

37:13

the clinic and get the court-ordered treatment

37:16

as an outpatient. And that's

37:18

the point Joss was in here when

37:20

he was arrested. He was living independently.

37:24

Prior to his arrest, we know

37:26

that Joss's TBS had been extended

37:29

with his treatment provider saying that

37:31

he would become aggressive easily and

37:33

that his chance of recidivism remained

37:35

high. After Joss's

37:37

arrest, in Nicole's case, he was

37:39

held in jail but he asked

37:41

to be moved to a TBS

37:43

clinic which that request was denied.

37:47

This case didn't go to trial until

37:49

November of 2015, though both sides had

37:51

been in and out of court with

37:53

all of the usual pretrial hearings. a

38:00

charge of manslaughter. In

38:03

the Netherlands, murder is

38:05

an intentional and premeditated

38:08

killing. Manslaughter is an

38:10

intentional killing without premeditation.

38:13

This manslaughter charge doesn't mean they

38:15

think Joss didn't intend to kill

38:17

Nicole, just that they couldn't prove

38:20

he premeditated it. It really

38:22

sounds a lot like what second-degree murder

38:24

is in a lot of states. Another

38:27

thing that happened in the year

38:29

and a half of pretrial hearings

38:31

was that Nicole's reputation was pretty

38:34

much smeared by the defense,

38:37

which was very difficult for her family. Essentially,

38:40

the defense was that the DNA was

38:42

not Joss's, but if it was, it

38:44

was because he lived a rough life

38:47

where he had a lot of sex with a lot

38:49

of women, so much so that

38:51

he could have had consensual sex with

38:53

Nicole and forgotten about it. While

38:56

it may have been possible that Joss had

38:59

sex with a stranger, to prove this, the

39:01

defense would have to basically say that Nicole,

39:04

who was 15 years old, was

39:06

living the same type of lifestyle.

39:09

They even wanted to bring it up at

39:11

trial that Nicole may have been pregnant, and

39:13

that would give another person a motive to

39:15

kill her. The truth

39:17

was they didn't know if Nicole was pregnant or

39:19

not based on the state of her remains, and

39:21

if she was, she was likely so early that

39:24

she wouldn't have known it herself, so

39:26

this would not be allowed at trial, but

39:29

this painting of Nicole as anything other

39:31

than an ordinary teenager with a boyfriend

39:33

and friends and a social life, to

39:36

make it sound like she was running

39:38

around having sex with men 10

39:40

years older than her. It

39:43

was so hurtful to her family because

39:45

it wasn't true, and her family

39:47

knew it wasn't true, and to just

39:49

hear her portrayed in a way that

39:51

wasn't accurate was devastating.

39:55

Another thing that was very hurtful to

39:57

the family was that Yolanda, Nicole's stepmother,

40:00

was not going to be allowed to testify

40:02

in court. Just like in

40:04

US trials, the family generally testifies about

40:06

their loved one and the impact of

40:08

the crime. But as

40:10

a step-parent, even though she had been

40:13

raising Nicole for years, Yolanda

40:15

had no standing in the Dutch

40:17

courts to testify in that capacity.

40:20

This also applied to Nicole's little

40:23

sister Debbie, who was six when

40:25

she went missing and

40:27

was obviously greatly impacted by

40:29

Nicole's murder. But she

40:31

was not a blood relation, so she was not allowed

40:33

to speak. Because

40:36

Odd was legally recognized as

40:38

Nicole's father, he would be

40:40

allowed. But this reminds

40:42

me of something that we saw here

40:44

recently in the case of JJ Vallow.

40:47

After his adoptive mother,

40:49

Lori Vallow-Daybell, was convicted

40:51

of his murder, they

40:53

did not let his grandfather give a

40:55

victim impact statement because he was, technically

40:58

speaking, JJ's

41:01

step-grandfather. Even

41:03

though he raised JJ alongside his wife,

41:05

up to when Lori adopted him, and

41:08

he lived and breathed being JJ's

41:10

grandfather, that wasn't

41:12

a recognized family relation in

41:15

the eyes of the court. So

41:17

Nicole's family had been hurt by the legal

41:19

process a number of times by the time

41:22

this trial started on November 2nd, 2015. It

41:26

started the day Nicole went missing and

41:28

continued with the police saying she must

41:30

have run away. And then after her

41:32

body was found, they arrest her brother

41:34

and then her father. And now here

41:36

they were 20 years later,

41:39

suffering her name being dragged through

41:41

the mud and their family structure

41:43

being deemed less than all in

41:46

the name of justice. But

41:48

the trial finally started and

41:50

testimony was expected to take about a week

41:53

and then the verdict would be delivered by

41:55

the panel of judges sometime

41:58

in December. However, the trial hit

42:00

a few snafus and that did

42:02

not happen. On November

42:04

10th, after the trial was underway, two

42:06

witnesses called the police. They

42:09

both said they had served time

42:11

with Joss in the same TBS

42:13

hospital, and they claimed

42:15

that Joss had confessed to having

42:17

killed a girl in the past.

42:20

The prosecution wanted the trial paused

42:23

while they determined if these

42:25

witnesses were credible or not.

42:29

The story from witness one was that he

42:31

and Joss had been assigned to go do

42:33

garden work at the clinic, but it was

42:35

closed. So they ended up with some free

42:38

time. They were sitting talking

42:40

and Joss said he had done worse

42:42

than what he was in the TBS

42:45

clinic for. Witness number

42:47

one joked, what'd you do, steal

42:49

a bike? And Joss said no,

42:51

he said he had actually murdered

42:53

someone. The witness

42:56

thought it was possible that Joss

42:58

was just joking or possibly he

43:00

was trying to be tougher than

43:02

he was in the hospital. The

43:05

man just told Joss he shouldn't say

43:07

stuff like that. And then it wasn't

43:09

until he heard Joss was actually arrested

43:11

and there was DNA evidence that he

43:13

realized it was not a joke. Witness

43:17

number two had more details of the crime.

43:19

He said that Joss said something to him

43:21

that he killed a girl because she made

43:23

fun of him. He said

43:26

it wasn't premeditated and he didn't have

43:28

any weapons on him. So he strangled

43:30

her and then stabbed her with a

43:32

branch. Like the

43:34

first witness, he said he didn't take

43:36

Joss seriously until he saw the story

43:38

on the news. The

43:41

defense said that the witnesses were

43:43

unreliable and that they were only

43:45

after the reward. They

43:47

didn't want the testimony to be considered at

43:50

all. And the judges would eventually agree with

43:52

the defense. But we'll get into that when

43:54

we get to the whole verdict. The

43:57

trial resumed on December 4th with

43:59

more testimony about DNA

44:01

evidence. There was

44:04

so much disagreement among the experts

44:06

over the probability of the DNA

44:08

match and the entire process that

44:11

they decided to go ahead and

44:13

retest things using even more refined

44:16

methods. DNA technology

44:18

had moved so quickly from 2011

44:21

until the start of the trial. They

44:23

were able to redo the testing in March of 2016

44:26

and in April court resumed to hear

44:28

testimony that it was 2.28 million

44:33

times more likely than not

44:35

that Joss was the contributor

44:37

of the DNA. I

44:39

watch a lot of US trials and the idea

44:41

that they would hit pause on things to clear

44:44

up conflicting expert testimony is

44:46

kind of strange to me,

44:48

but if a trial

44:50

really is for fact-finding it makes

44:53

sense to use the tools you have.

44:56

Now that said, I do understand

44:58

why it's easier in the Netherlands

45:00

to handle things like this. For

45:03

one, they did not have a jury

45:05

they were holding up. This is a

45:07

panel of judges and in

45:09

2022 the Netherlands had a population

45:12

of 17.7 million people and only 142 murders. Comparing that to

45:14

New York,

45:20

the state in the US

45:22

with the most comparable population,

45:24

New York had 762 murders.

45:28

So I imagine their court systems can

45:30

take a little bit more time with

45:32

individual murder trials since they don't have

45:35

nearly as many of them. In

45:37

the end this trial was finally over in November

45:39

of 2016. Rather than a month to conduct

45:43

a trial and get a verdict, it took

45:45

a year. The panel

45:47

of judges took the information to

45:49

deliberate and when they gave their

45:51

verdict they went through the

45:54

case point by point to make

45:56

factual rulings to explain that verdict.

45:59

And here they had two charges to consider. We

46:01

have the rape and the manslaughter.

46:04

So as for the charge of rape,

46:06

the court said it was proper that

46:08

Joss's previous crimes be considered in this

46:11

case. The defense said they

46:13

shouldn't be because they weren't similar

46:15

enough to the prosecution's theory as

46:17

to what happened to Nicole. But

46:19

the court pointed out they were very similar.

46:22

In both the 1987 rape and the

46:25

2000 rape, Joss approached

46:27

the victims while they were riding

46:29

bikes on public roads and then

46:31

took them to a second location.

46:33

In the 1987 case, he

46:36

threw the bike in a ditch like Nicole's bike

46:38

being thrown in the water. And in the 2000

46:40

rape, Joss hit the

46:42

woman several times and threatened

46:44

to stab her. And we know Nicole had

46:47

been hit and very likely stabbed. The

46:50

court then accepted that Joss was

46:52

the contributor to the DNA found

46:54

on Nicole's body. So the question

46:57

was, could it have been consensual?

46:59

And the court rejected that idea.

47:02

Nicole had a best friend who

47:05

she told everything to. And

47:07

she never mentioned having sex

47:09

with any older men. Nicole

47:11

had only talked about sex within the

47:14

context of relationships with boys who were

47:16

her age. There was

47:18

little chance Joss and Nicole

47:20

would have overlapped socially. While

47:22

she did go out with friends and maybe sometimes

47:25

tell her parents she was at a friend's house

47:27

when she was really out on the town, it

47:30

was very unlikely that a 15 year old

47:32

was in the same

47:34

place the rougher group Joss

47:36

hung out with would have

47:39

been. Nicole also only went out

47:41

with friends so she wouldn't have met him

47:43

without one of them knowing about it. Additionally,

47:47

Joss himself testified in court at

47:49

a hearing that he only slept

47:51

with grown women, never a 15

47:53

year old. So he

47:55

said if he did have sex with Nicole, it would

47:57

have been because he thought she was older. In

48:00

the pictures of Nicole that have been released

48:02

to the public, which are her school pictures,

48:05

she has her hair styled and her makeup

48:07

on, so she looks a little older maybe,

48:09

but she certainly still looks like

48:11

a teenager. Joss wouldn't have met

48:14

her in a bar and immediately thought she was

48:16

over 18. It

48:18

seems improbable to the extreme that

48:20

the two ever met, let alone

48:22

had sex. Therefore, the

48:25

judges found that there was enough

48:27

evidence to justify a rape conviction.

48:30

As for the manslaughter charges, the court considered

48:33

the testimony of the two men who had

48:35

been in the TBS program with Josh, and

48:38

the prosecution thought their story should have

48:40

been considered at trial, but the judges

48:42

disagreed. Both witnesses had admitted

48:44

they talked to each other about their

48:46

stories, so they weren't as independent as

48:48

they seemed initially. Then they

48:50

also talked with each other

48:52

about the reward. So they

48:55

were aware there was an incentive to

48:57

come forward. Based on

48:59

other testimony, it came out that the

49:01

TBS clinics had a social hierarchy. Not

49:04

everyone in these programs is a

49:06

sex offender. They have all sorts

49:08

of people who committed crimes and

49:10

needed additional treatment to avoid re-offending.

49:13

So when we look at

49:15

the social structure of those in the program, people

49:18

there for sex crimes are

49:20

at the very lowest tier.

49:23

It seemed very unlikely that witness

49:25

number one and number two, who

49:27

were in there for non-sex related

49:30

crimes, would have sat down to talk to Josh

49:32

at all. Or that he would

49:34

have opened up to them about something

49:36

that would actually cause his status to

49:38

drop even further. The court

49:41

ruled there was an insufficient basis to

49:43

use these claims as evidence, which

49:45

is something else so different to the US

49:47

system. I have seen plenty

49:49

of cases where the jailhouse informant

49:52

has an unlikely story and they're

49:54

put on the stand regardless, like

49:56

in the John Juca case that I covered in September

49:58

2019. The

50:00

informant said that he heard John's dad

50:02

say something during a prison visit, but

50:05

John's father had a stroke and he

50:07

could not physically have said what he

50:09

claimed. But he was put on the

50:11

stand anyway. He did later recant,

50:13

but you're gonna have to go listen to that

50:15

episode if you want a refresher on all the

50:17

details. In that case,

50:19

the Brooklyn courts were interested in incentivized

50:21

testimony, but the Dutch court, in this

50:23

case, absolutely was not. The

50:26

judges did find, though, that there

50:29

were other circumstances that pointed strongly

50:31

towards Joss as Nicole's killer. For

50:34

one, it naturally follows from the finding that

50:36

he raped her that he was also the

50:38

one who killed her. Raping

50:40

a teenager is a serious offense and he

50:42

would have motive to kill her to keep

50:44

her from going to the police. It

50:47

does not seem like a coincidence that she

50:49

died from a stabbing when that was what

50:52

he threatened his other victim with. They

50:55

also pointed out how Joss's car just so

50:57

happened to get stolen with the keys in

50:59

the ignition and dumped in

51:01

water where evidence could be destroyed. But

51:05

while these things indicated Joss was

51:07

possibly the killer, the court said

51:09

they needed to address the DNA

51:12

that didn't match Joss or Nicole's

51:14

boyfriend. The court determined it

51:16

was realistic to believe that

51:19

the trace DNA came from

51:21

contamination in the collection or

51:23

testing process. But they had

51:26

to explore the other possibilities because, as

51:28

the court wrote, they had to be

51:30

sure of his guilt beyond a reasonable

51:32

doubt. They did

51:34

not believe there was a possibility

51:36

that the DNA came from consensual

51:38

sex with another person for the

51:40

same reasons they didn't believe Nicole

51:42

would have had consensual sex with

51:44

Joss. There was no time

51:47

in the week leading up to

51:49

her murder for her to have

51:51

engaged in some other sexual relationship

51:53

and she likely would have told her friend about

51:56

it if she had. So

51:58

the idea of an alternative suspect suspect would

52:00

mean that the other potential suspect

52:02

would have also raped Nicole

52:04

prior to her death. And

52:07

they found that this, taken by

52:09

itself, was possible even if it

52:11

was unlikely. So

52:14

then the court considered Joss's behavior

52:16

after his arrest. Initially

52:18

he invoked his right to remain silent until

52:20

he was in front of a magistrate. He

52:22

asked to speak at that point and that's

52:25

when he said he did not have sex

52:27

with Nicole, but if he did, it was

52:29

consensual and he forgot about it. This

52:32

was interesting to me because in the US,

52:34

juries are told they are not to judge

52:36

a defendant's silence as evidence one way or

52:38

the other in regards to guilt. But

52:41

in the court ruling here, they

52:43

said that a suspect's silence is

52:45

significant if they have an

52:47

answer to the accusation against them. So

52:50

if Joss had an explanation that did

52:52

not implicate him in any crime, like,

52:54

yes, I had sex with her, but

52:57

I left her alive at such and such place,

52:59

he should have said so. They

53:01

can take from his silence that he

53:03

had no alternative explanation. However,

53:07

because the court found that Joss had

53:09

raped Nicole and saying, yes,

53:11

I raped her, but I left her

53:13

alive, would implicate himself in a crime,

53:16

he had the right to remain

53:18

silent in totality. His

53:21

explanation for how he didn't kill her included

53:23

a different crime, so he couldn't be compelled

53:25

to speak and then it couldn't be held

53:27

against him that he didn't. So

53:30

taken as a whole, the court

53:32

found that the DNA was the

53:34

real issue here, improving manslaughter. The

53:36

possibility of a third contributor of

53:39

the DNA meant there was a

53:41

possibility someone else was involved and

53:43

that person killed Nicole. All

53:46

that to say that the judges found 49-year-old

53:48

Joss guilty of

53:50

rape and not guilty of

53:52

manslaughter. He was then sentenced

53:55

to five years in prison. But

53:58

this case is not over because in another Netherlands,

54:00

both sides can appeal, an appeal they

54:02

did. Joss was appealing his

54:04

rape conviction and the prosecution was

54:06

appealing the manslaughter acquittal. The

54:09

hearing for these appeals lasted for

54:11

four days and Joss reiterated that

54:13

he was innocent of all charges,

54:15

so not much had changed there.

54:18

But something significant had happened for the family

54:20

in this 2018 appeal. Due

54:24

to the outcry at Nicole's family

54:26

members being excluded from speaking at

54:28

the original trial, the

54:30

rules were changed to recognize members

54:33

of the immediate family who

54:35

were not blood related like step-parents

54:38

and step-siblings and foster families.

54:41

So after 23 years, Yolanda

54:43

was finally allowed to testify

54:45

on the record about

54:47

the impact of losing the

54:49

daughter she had raised. As

54:53

for the prosecution and the defense, they

54:56

just argued the evidence. The defense

54:58

said it was insufficient to prove the rape

55:00

and the prosecution argued it was sufficient to

55:02

prove both the rape and the manslaughter. And

55:05

the court disagreed with the defense

55:07

on all points. First,

55:10

they upheld the rape conviction and

55:12

second, they overturned the acquittal for

55:14

manslaughter. But that didn't mean it

55:16

was sent back to the trial court, it

55:18

meant the acquittal was now a conviction. The

55:21

prosecution asked for a 14

55:23

year prison sentence but the court

55:25

gave Joss 12 years. In

55:28

2020, the Supreme Court upheld the verdict.

55:31

Nicole's family said they didn't really care

55:34

about Joss's sentence in regards to the

55:36

manslaughter charge. Even if Joss

55:38

only got five days added on, he

55:40

was recognized as the killer of Nicole.

55:43

And that was very important to them.

55:45

It let them say to Nicole that they

55:48

finally got justice for her. As

55:51

of this recording, Joss remains incarcerated

55:53

and Nicole's family has paved the

55:55

way for other step families, foster

55:58

families, and other non-bloody families. relatives

56:00

to be recognized by the courts

56:02

as who they really are. Watch

56:40

the total solar eclipse at Seneca

56:42

Resorts and Casinos. Join us on

56:44

Monday, April 8th for events filled

56:47

with food, drinks, DJs, viewing glasses,

56:49

and more. Family friendly at Seneca

56:52

Niagara and Seneca Elegany. 21

56:54

and up at Seneca Buffalo Creek. The first 200

56:56

The first 200 guests guests at each property

56:58

receive a commemorative t-shirt. Book your

57:00

overnight stay now so you don't

57:02

miss it. Get all the details

57:04

at senecacasinos.com. Seneca Resorts

57:06

and Casinos. Nothing else comes close.

57:10

And now another no-brainer money-saving tip

57:12

from Progressive. That doesn't sound

57:14

good. Paper shredders jammed but

57:16

I think I've fixed

57:18

it. Oh, try shredding these $50 bills then. Seems

57:22

like it's working. Better try another $400. No.

57:25

Instead of using money, use regular paper.

57:27

And here's a better tip from Progressive

57:29

on how not to waste money. Don't pay

57:32

too much for car insurance. Privacy switch

57:34

and save could save hundreds. Progressive Casualty

57:36

Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will

57:38

vary.