0:01

Hey there beautiful people, I'm journalist

0:03

and author Trayvel Anderson and

0:05

I'm hosting the official Rustin Podcast.

0:08

We're diving into the man, the moment,

0:11

and the movement at the center of

0:13

the Netflix film. Well the stakes

0:15

were so severe, people were getting killed for

0:17

registering people to vote. He was

0:20

a pioneer in the sense that he really was

0:22

a true radical. You are

0:24

absolutely gonna want to listen, I promise you

0:26

that. Subscribe now wherever

0:28

you get slay-worthy podcasts.

0:31

I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on this season

0:33

of Heavyweight, the search for

0:35

a beloved parrot who's been missing for

0:37

over 20 years, a man shot

0:40

by his co-worker in an Idaho motel

0:42

room, and an artist

0:44

who can't stop painting his ex-wife.

0:47

This is madness, it's crazy. I understand, I

0:49

know. If I present my portfolio

0:51

in a mental institution, they will welcome

0:53

me. Listen to the new season

0:56

of Heavyweight on Spotify or wherever

0:58

you get your podcasts.

1:01

Hi, it's Phoebe. Or

1:04

as we recently discussed on Criminal Plus,

1:07

it's CB, Stevie, Fiz,

1:10

or Vivian. Here are the ways

1:12

in which this transcription software

1:14

has transcribed my name in

1:17

the past week. What's up, TV?

1:20

Hi, Stevie. This

1:23

is my favorite. Four

1:25

times we've had, hi, Lauren.

1:30

Hi Lauren and baby.

1:33

Signing up for Criminal Plus is the best

1:35

way to support our work and get

1:38

bonus episodes with me and criminal co-creator

1:40

Lauren Spohr twice a month. And

1:43

right now, memberships are on sale. Just

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1:59

all of our of virtual events, like

2:02

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2:07

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2:09

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2:11

sign up for Criminal Plus now and get 20% off

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2:19

slash plus. Thanks very

2:21

much, and we'll see you on the 7th.

2:28

This episode contains descriptions of

2:30

sexual violence. Please use

2:33

discretion.

2:37

In January 1913, museum

2:40

and gallery directors in London received

2:42

a memo from the police.

2:45

It said in capital letters, CONFIDENTIAL.

2:49

And it suggested that museums and galleries

2:51

should change their rules for

2:53

women who wanted to visit. And

2:55

in particular, that memo suggests

2:58

that they should change how

3:00

they are inspecting female visitors, so that

3:02

female visitors should be asked to leave parcels

3:04

and moths at the entrance. Archivist

3:08

Briony Millen. So in a way, it was

3:10

suggesting that museum and gallery

3:12

authorities should be particularly wary of female visitors.

3:15

Museum and gallery directors met with the police

3:18

and discussed what to do. One

3:20

option was to make all women trying to enter

3:23

a museum or gallery sign a

3:25

declaration promising that

3:27

they wouldn't attack anything. Another

3:30

option was proposed. Don't

3:32

let women in at all. I'm

3:36

Phoebe Judge. This

3:38

is women. From

3:45

the mid-1860s, the demand

3:47

for the vote, should I say the

3:50

polite request for the vote,

3:51

was being expressed.

3:54

Diane Atkinson is the author of

3:56

Rise Up Women, The Remarkable Lives

3:58

of the Suffragettes.

4:00

The early campaigners were rather

4:02

gentle

4:03

in their approach. They'd have polite meetings,

4:05

they'd collect petitions, they'd have garden

4:07

party meetings, they'd ask politicians nicely.

4:11

But of course that approach doesn't make any

4:13

progress.

4:14

In 1893, New Zealand

4:16

became the first country in the world to give women

4:19

the vote.

4:20

And over the next 20 years, Australia,

4:23

Finland, and Norway followed. But

4:26

in England, nothing was happening.

4:29

All parties all across the board worried

4:31

that if women could vote,

4:32

they might vote for their opponents.

4:36

Some things had changed in the 19th century,

4:38

but

4:38

it was very, very slow, and it was

4:41

in a very hostile environment

4:43

in Parliament.

4:44

So whenever the idea of women having the vote is

4:46

discussed or women's issues discussed, it's

4:48

mostly ridiculed and mocked, and of

4:50

course nothing ever happens. In

4:53

the 1870s, a woman named Emmeline

4:55

Pankhurst got involved. She'd

4:57

grown up in a family that was engaged in

5:00

politics. Her mother was active

5:02

in anti-slavery and women's suffrage

5:04

movements. Emmeline Pankhurst

5:07

was one of those women who

5:09

had been part of the conversation

5:12

in the moderate suffrage

5:14

campaign. They were called the suffragists. These are the

5:16

women who are meeting and talking

5:18

and gathering petitions together in

5:20

the 1860s onwards. And she was involved

5:23

in that conversation in the 1870s.

5:26

Emmeline Pankhurst was married to a lawyer

5:29

named Richard Pankhurst.

5:31

He was a feminist. He tried to stand as a feminist

5:33

MP, but of course that didn't succeed.

5:36

He was regarded as a sort of curious creature,

5:38

a man who'd unsexed himself to

5:40

support women's issues. So

5:43

they were an interesting couple in the north of England.

5:45

They lived in Manchester and had five children.

5:49

They'd been married almost 20 years when

5:51

Richard Pankhurst got sick and died.

5:54

And Mrs Pankhurst suddenly finds herself

5:57

a widow, very unexpectedly, with

5:59

very little

5:59

little money. And she

6:02

takes a job called the Registrar

6:04

of Births and Deaths in a really

6:06

poor part of Manchester. And

6:09

she's there taking the details

6:11

of the births and deaths of local

6:13

people. And during this time

6:15

when she's in her office and receiving often

6:18

mothers reporting the births and

6:20

sometimes the deaths too of their babies,

6:23

she gets to see how poor these

6:26

women's lives are, what impact

6:28

poverty has on their lives, and how

6:30

they have no voice in Parliament. She

6:32

knows all the theory about why women should

6:34

have the vote, but I think it's this experience

6:36

that kind of changes her

6:39

attitudes

6:39

to how women are going

6:41

to be able to proceed to equality.

6:44

Some of the girls who came into the office to

6:46

report a newborn baby were

6:48

only 13 years old.

6:51

Emily Pankhurst wrote that

6:53

many of them had become pregnant after being

6:55

sexually assaulted by family members,

6:58

but they had few legal protections.

7:02

Emily Pankhurst wrote, I was

7:04

shocked to be reminded over and over

7:06

again of the little respect there was

7:08

in the world for women and children.

7:12

Diane Atkinson says that at the time

7:15

women in England had very limited rights.

7:18

They couldn't report marital rape or

7:21

get a court order against a violent husband.

7:24

It was almost impossible to get a divorce, and

7:27

it was difficult for women to get custody over

7:29

their children. They couldn't

7:31

open a bank account or apply for a loan

7:33

without their husbands.

7:35

If they were single, they needed their father's

7:37

signature, even if they made more money

7:39

than their father.

7:41

Women could even be refused service if

7:44

they were drinking alone in a pub, spending

7:46

their own money. Then,

7:50

in October 1903, Emily Pankhurst invited a

7:53

group of women to her house in Manchester.

7:57

They wanted to start a new kind of organization.

8:00

devoted to call it the women

8:02

social and political union w

8:05

s p you

8:07

and they came up with the slogan deeds

8:10

not worst

8:12

and they said we're going get women the

8:14

folks best slogan

8:16

deeds not

8:17

words or he describes the direction

8:19

of travel they're going to be going in and can be asking

8:21

for the vote for going to be demanding at

8:27

the word suffragettes that

8:30

name come from well

8:32

it was first coined in mine today

8:34

six by i'm

8:35

a tabloid newspaper called

8:37

the daily mail we still have the newspaper

8:40

and

8:40

it was meant to be i'm a term of abuse

8:42

really on it with to be a put

8:45

down on sue music

8:47

to the activities of his group

8:49

of women who dared to make their

8:51

the moms heard in a variety of ways

8:53

they weren't gonna just space settings

8:56

politicians nicely and carrying on with a

8:58

petition involving saturday's

9:00

that is a condescending nickname but

9:02

the suffragettes didn't mind at all the used it

9:05

simmer for happy to be cool suffragettes because

9:07

they said well let's make the g

9:09

a hard and say

9:10

let's say suffering

9:11

guess the vote

9:14

emily pankhurst quickly became

9:16

popular to travel around the

9:18

country to give speeches see

9:20

was of i a car

9:22

as massing person on stage

9:25

she can hold of room mates sussex

9:27

he says quite small houses

9:29

size and i know this because when

9:31

i went to miss him of london we have on the has serious

9:34

illnesses i pompom the collections a shoe

9:36

size with size to so

9:39

that tells you a have something about hub

9:41

kind of physics physical size

9:44

and how her a

9:46

small physical size was able

9:48

to projects and

9:50

reach insert the heart silly

9:52

as everybody he went along to another

9:54

meetings

9:56

one woman described going to a suffragette

9:58

meeting

9:59

i was sitting

9:59

a crowded room of women with feeling

10:02

running high and it was as if one big

10:04

heart was beating. Emmeline

10:08

Pankhurst was working with two of her daughters,

10:11

Sylvia and Christabel Pankhurst.

10:14

Her daughter Christabel had a degree

10:16

in law and had a first class

10:18

degree in international

10:19

law but because

10:20

she was a woman she wasn't allowed to be

10:23

a lawyer. You could do the academic work but

10:25

you couldn't join the profession because all

10:27

the professions except medicine

10:30

were closed to women. So

10:32

Christabel has this brilliant

10:34

logical range, she's a great tactician

10:36

and strategist and she's

10:39

got a complete grasp of how

10:41

to turn political theories into

10:44

an active movement and a progressive

10:47

movement.

10:48

In 1905 Christabel Pankhurst

10:50

went to a political meeting in Manchester

10:53

with another suffragette, a woman

10:55

named Annie Kenny who worked at a cotton

10:57

mill. Before she left

11:00

the house that day Christabel told

11:02

her mother, we shall sleep

11:04

in prison tonight. Diane

11:07

Atkinson writes that the suffragettes had

11:09

prepared for this moment for two years.

11:14

The meeting was open to the public so

11:16

people could ask questions and talk to the politicians.

11:20

Winston Churchill was there, this

11:22

was decades before I became prime minister.

11:26

Annie Kenny got up and asked about

11:28

votes for women. The speakers

11:30

ignored her. When she

11:32

asked her question again two men pulled

11:35

her down. Then

11:37

the two suffragettes rolled out a homemade

11:39

banner they had smuggled into the meeting. It

11:41

read, votes for women. They

11:44

were dragged from the meeting and picked

11:46

up by two police officers. They

11:49

hadn't committed a crime but Christabel

11:51

Pankhurst wanted them to get arrested. That

11:54

way she knew their protest would be covered

11:56

in the newspapers. So

11:59

she pretended to be a victim.

11:59

to spit at one of the officers. Christabel

12:03

Penkerson and Annie Kenny were given two

12:06

options.

12:07

Pay a fine or go to prison.

12:10

They chose prison. Diane

12:13

Atkinson writes that a rumor circulated

12:16

that Winston Churchill had tried to pay

12:18

their fines to keep them out of prison and

12:20

minimize the publicity. But

12:24

their plan worked.

12:26

One historian

12:27

writes, the whole

12:29

country read about the episode in the morning papers.

12:33

Soon, everyone had heard about the

12:35

suffragettes.

12:39

Diane Atkinson writes that

12:41

political parties stopped admitting women to

12:44

their meetings if they suspected that

12:46

they might ask, quote, awkward questions.

12:49

So some women would go in disguise.

12:53

So they start off interrupting at meetings and

12:56

then that moves on to something a bit

12:58

more in the face of the politicians.

13:01

So they would have a strategy from 1908 onwards

13:04

called pestering the politicians.

13:06

The suffragettes would find out what

13:08

senior politicians

13:09

were doing on the weekends,

13:11

especially the prime minister, Herbert

13:14

Asquith. Christabel

13:16

Penkerson said the prime minister was, quote, the

13:19

principal enemy of women's suffrage

13:22

and said he was beyond conversion.

13:25

So she said

13:26

the only thing to do was to make him

13:28

appear ridiculous. They

13:30

would find out why they're playing golf. And

13:33

they would hide in the bushes. And

13:35

just as the politicians were sort of teeing up their

13:37

shot, or whatever you do, or however you call it, they

13:40

would jump out of the bushes and

13:42

say, Mr. Asquith, when are you going to give women the

13:44

vote? And they would wait outside

13:46

the church for Asquith to come

13:48

out. And they sort of go straight for

13:51

him and berate him and did as much they

13:53

could to pester the lives out and to make their

13:55

lives as

13:55

frustrating and as difficult as possible,

13:58

just by being around all the time.

13:59

the wrong times. It was a fun slapstick

14:03

kind of protest, but it drove the politicians

14:05

mad. It drove Winston Churchill mad

14:07

really, because they were always attacking

14:10

him and pestering him and they wrote about

14:12

it in the newspapers and of course

14:15

the politicians paid it because it made them feel very foolish.

14:19

Emily Pankers' home in Manchester

14:21

became a gathering place for suffragettes.

14:25

They chose three colours to represent the

14:27

movement, purple, green and

14:29

white. They're

14:30

kind of pioneers in political

14:32

marketing and merchandising. Some of the earliest

14:35

pieces were beautiful long silk

14:37

scarves with purple and green

14:39

stripes and printed on either end

14:42

votes for women. Now these could be used

14:44

as a scarf. They could be used to

14:47

keep your hat on. If you were on your

14:49

bicycle or if it was windy,

14:51

you could

14:52

perhaps tie your hat on with this

14:54

scarf. That was one of the first pieces.

14:57

There's a jewellery. So

14:59

it's really rather brilliant

15:01

in terms of reach and also

15:03

brilliant

15:03

in terms of raising money. Quite a lot

15:06

of suffragettes who were

15:08

of limited means would

15:10

make things in purple, white and green and sell them

15:13

to the suffragette shops all around the country

15:15

because the WSPU had shops

15:18

and offices. You could even buy

15:20

chocolates and cigarettes and marmalade.

15:24

Diane Atkinson says that while some

15:26

of the best-known

15:26

suffragettes, like the Pankers,

15:29

were middle or upper class,

15:31

many working-class women, like

15:33

cotton mill worker Annie Kenny, played a big

15:36

part. Photos of

15:38

Annie Kenny, sometimes in her cotton

15:40

mill uniform, were put on postcards

15:43

and women would collect them. Most

15:46

of the British suffragettes we know about were

15:48

white women. Although Diane

15:51

Atkinson says that at the time, the

15:54

census didn't talk about

15:55

race or ethnicity. Now,

15:58

there are photographs of Indian

15:59

suffragettes who were Indian students

16:02

who are in London, they go a very important

16:05

procession to coincide with the coronation

16:07

of a new king.

16:09

The photographs are dated June 17th, 1911.

16:13

The marching suffragettes had hoped that

16:15

the coronation of a new king would

16:17

be helpful to their cause. At

16:21

the first suffragette protest in London, 300 to 400

16:24

women attended. They

16:26

were holding banners and walked together

16:28

in the rain to talk to members of Parliament.

16:33

The suffragettes came up with lots of different ways

16:35

to make people pay attention. Two

16:38

women tried to mail themselves to the prime

16:40

minister as human letters. The

16:44

story made the front page of the Daily Mirror,

16:46

which reported that upon arrival, the

16:49

suffragettes were told, you cannot

16:51

be delivered here. You must be returned.

16:54

You are dead letters. The

16:56

Daily Mirror wrote, though well

16:58

laid, the plan did not succeed.

17:02

Two other women wanted to attend a talk by

17:04

a politician in Bristol. No

17:07

women were allowed. So they went the

17:09

night before, snuck into the conference

17:11

hall and hid inside of an organ.

17:14

The next day, when the politician started

17:16

giving his speech,

17:17

the suffragettes interrupted him from

17:20

inside the organ with votes

17:22

for women. No one could figure

17:24

out where the voices were coming from. The

17:27

politician continued his speech, and when

17:29

he started talking about liberty, the

17:31

suffragette shouted, why don't you

17:33

give women liberty? The

17:36

women jumped out of the organ and were chased

17:38

around while they kept shouting their slogans.

17:42

Eventually, they were thrown out. Most

17:46

people disapproved of the suffragettes.

17:50

The Daily Mirror described one protest as,

17:52

quote, a desperate suffragette

17:55

rioting, where, quote, screaming

17:58

women

17:58

would attack police off the

17:59

The sacrifices were enormous. I

18:05

mean, to become a suffragette, especially

18:07

to continue with your membership right

18:10

through the whole gamut of militancy,

18:12

ran the risk of losing

18:14

your husband, losing your fiancé, being

18:17

disowned by your father, being thrown out

18:19

of your home, being disinherited,

18:21

losing your job, losing

18:24

everything. The suffragettes

18:26

were not afraid of violence. And

18:29

by one account, returned from interrupting a

18:31

meeting, quote, bruised and disheveled,

18:34

hatless, hair dragged down, and clothing

18:36

torn. Some had their corsets

18:38

ripped off, false teeth knocked

18:41

out, faces scratched, eyes swollen,

18:44

noses bleeding.

18:45

It wasn't just men attacking vulnerable

18:48

women. And women joined in, and

18:51

it was extremely dangerous to

18:53

be confronted by a crowd who were

18:55

capable of doing all kinds of harm. And

18:58

that's why a lot of suffragettes would take their brothers

19:00

with them, or sometimes their husbands,

19:02

or sometimes male friends who

19:05

supported what they were doing, just to give them

19:07

a bit of security.

19:08

They'd make corsets out of cardboard

19:10

to protect themselves. One

19:13

suffragette explained how I rigged

19:15

up one of these in the bath and

19:17

fitted it to my shape and put on my

19:19

hockey outfit and set off for London.

19:24

After a violent protest in 1908, two

19:26

suffragettes, angry about how they'd

19:29

been treated by the crowd and the police, took

19:31

a taxi to the prime minister's house and

19:34

broke two windows. The

19:37

suffragettes said they didn't want bloodshed. Emmeline

19:40

Panker said, there

19:42

is something that governments care far more for

19:44

than human life, and that

19:47

is the security of property.

19:49

And so it is through

19:50

property that we shall strike

19:52

the enemy.

20:17

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21:21

Hey there, beautiful people. I'm journalist

21:24

and author Trayvel Anderson. And

21:26

I'm hosting the official Rustin Podcast.

21:29

We're diving into the man, the moment,

21:31

and the movement at the center of

21:34

the Netflix film.

21:34

When the stakes were so severe, people

21:37

were getting killed for registering people to vote.

21:40

He was a pioneer in the sense that he really

21:42

was a true radical. You

21:44

are absolutely going to want to listen. I promise

21:46

you that. Subscribe now wherever

21:48

you get slay-worthy podcasts.

21:54

If things got too violent at a protest,

21:57

suffragettes would sometimes try to get arrested.

21:59

to get away from the scene.

22:02

One day, Emmeline Pankhurst, along

22:04

with eight other women, asked to speak

22:06

to the prime minister. Two

22:09

police inspectors stopped them.

22:11

A crowd started to form, and Emmeline

22:14

Pankhurst worried it could turn violent.

22:17

One of the women in the group was in her seventies.

22:20

It didn't feel safe. So

22:23

Emmeline Pankhurst slapped one of

22:25

the inspectors lightly on the cheek. The

22:28

inspector said, I know why you did

22:30

that. Emmeline Pankhurst

22:32

said, must I do it again?

22:35

The inspector said yes.

22:37

So she slapped him on the other cheek, and

22:40

another suffragette knocked his hat off. They

22:43

were arrested and escorted to the police

22:45

station, where they were charged with obstructing

22:47

the police and assault.

22:50

At one point, the women's prison in

22:52

London was so

22:53

crowded, some suffragettes

22:56

were sent to a prison out of town.

22:59

Men who were seen as political

23:00

prisoners got sent to better

23:02

prisons, where they could wear their own clothes,

23:05

spend time with other prisoners, receive

23:07

books, and write letters. But

23:11

the suffragettes were sent to regular prisons,

23:13

where they had to wear prison uniforms. One

23:17

suffragette wrote that she slept

23:19

in, quote, rather soiled

23:21

booking sheets, and that she

23:23

was kept in solitary confinement with

23:26

one window that was so high she

23:28

couldn't see out of it.

23:30

Quote, the only sign of outside

23:32

life was the occasional shadow of

23:34

a bird as it flew across the window.

23:39

The women had to work in the prison. Some

23:42

scrubbed floors, and others made

23:44

shirts for inmates at the men's prison.

23:47

Around the tail of the shirts, the suffragettes embroidered

23:50

a message,

23:51

votes for women.

23:53

At a certain moment, quite early on,

23:55

actually,

23:55

the suffragettes decided that,

23:58

well, some did, the individuals.

23:59

it's an universal strategy, that

24:02

they would go on hunger strikes

24:04

until they were treated

24:06

as political prisoners until they got a special

24:09

treatment.

24:10

Diane Atkinson says that when

24:12

the suffragettes started hunger striking, the

24:15

authorities became nervous that someone

24:17

might die in prison.

24:19

Suffragettes who want to hang a hunger strike would

24:21

have to be fed, and they would have to

24:23

be fed by force if necessary, and

24:25

that's what happens. You have women going

24:28

to prison for various often trivial

24:30

offences, going on hunger strikes,

24:33

and being force fed. To be

24:35

force fed at that time,

24:38

the way it was conducted

24:40

was horrendous.

24:43

A tube was forced

24:44

down the women's throat or through

24:46

the nose so violently that injuries

24:48

were common. Some women

24:51

suffered from the effects of force feeding long

24:53

after they were released.

24:55

It's quite shattering to think what the process

24:57

was and how they endured

24:59

it, sometimes three times a day for weeks

25:02

at a time. It was extremely

25:04

gruelling. And what the suffragette

25:06

says was that the government was torturing its women,

25:08

and in fact it was torture without any doubt.

25:12

And then in November 1910, a bill

25:15

was discussed in Parliament that

25:17

if passed would give some women

25:20

the right to vote, but

25:22

only women who owned property of a certain

25:24

value. It didn't sink the suffragettes

25:27

because they didn't feel it went far enough

25:29

really

25:29

or enfranchised enough women, but they

25:31

said, okay, well, you know, get our foot

25:33

in the door one step at a time, we'll take this,

25:36

and then we'll keep agitating to make it

25:38

completely universal women's suffrage.

25:41

So this bill was being debated in Parliament.

25:44

And there was quite a lot of interest and a lot of

25:46

support for it. A lot

25:49

of politicians voted for it. But

25:51

for the bill to become law, the Prime Minister,

25:54

Herbert Asquith, needed to approve it.

25:57

While they were waiting for his approval, the

25:59

So for jets gathered at a building

26:01

close to Parliament,

26:03

they know the votes going through. They've

26:06

decorated the hall with all their beautiful banners

26:08

saying rise up women, deeds not words.

26:10

Mrs. Pankhurst had given a rousing

26:12

speech. Some of their top speakers had

26:15

given rousing speeches.

26:17

And then they got word that the Prime Minister

26:20

had

26:20

chosen not to approve the bill. When

26:22

the messengers ran to this big meeting

26:26

to say that, as Squares has said, well,

26:28

I see the results, but

26:30

we'll discuss this during the next parliamentary

26:32

session. He kind of torpedoed it. He'd

26:35

stopped it going any further. And

26:37

when the news came through, it was a real fury.

26:40

They were pretty pumped up actually by the meeting.

26:43

And they decided they would go off in groups

26:46

of 10 to 12, small

26:48

deputations, they would leave the hall

26:50

and they would walk to Parliament in

26:52

small groups. They couldn't go as a mass because

26:55

they'd be arrested on mass. That

26:57

was illegal. So they set off.

27:00

They walked to Parliament Square.

27:02

Their plan was to confront the politicians

27:04

who had let the bill die. There was

27:06

a vast presence in Parliament

27:09

Square. There were lots of men

27:11

going about their business. It's a very busy

27:13

part of Westminster. Of course,

27:16

the government knew the suffragists would react

27:18

extremely poorly to this

27:21

particular likely result. There

27:23

were several hundreds, uniformed

27:26

policemen,

27:27

but there were more policemen

27:30

in plain clothes who were

27:33

there really as agent provocateurs.

27:36

And so these men were kind of in disguise.

27:38

They were there to cause trouble. They were pretending

27:41

to be supporters that were in suffrage. And

27:44

so a

27:44

horrible riot breaks out.

27:46

And November the 18th, 1910, becomes

27:49

known as Black Friday

27:52

because of the violence, the physical

27:54

and sexual violence that takes place

27:58

during that day, afternoon, and the... early

28:00

evening. It's really

28:01

bad. Women are punched

28:03

and kicked off their hair pulled. They're

28:05

groped. They're taken into side streets.

28:08

There's at least 39 or so

28:10

examples of sexual violence

28:14

and there are horrifying descriptions

28:16

of this.

28:17

A report was later conducted into the behavior

28:20

of the police that day, both in

28:22

uniform and undercover. One

28:25

woman later described seeing an officer in plain

28:27

clothes who kicked a woman while

28:30

others laughed

28:31

and jeered at her

28:32

for six hours. This continued. One

28:36

woman was dragged out of her wheelchair and

28:38

beaten. A crowd had

28:41

gathered, mostly men who didn't like the suffragettes.

28:44

Reports described how the police forced

28:47

suffragettes into the middle of the crowd.

28:50

Around 150 women were

28:52

physically and sexually assaulted.

28:55

One woman told a reporter that she had been

28:57

to seven suffragette demonstrations, but

28:59

she had never, quote, known the police

29:02

so violent. A

29:04

doctor said he would like to know who had

29:06

told the police to treat the women with,

29:09

quote,

29:09

such brutality.

29:12

The next day, one newspaper

29:13

reported that the suffragettes had scratched

29:16

men's cheeks and knocked off helmets

29:19

while the police, quote, kept their

29:21

tempers very well. But

29:24

when another newspaper published a photograph

29:27

of a 50 year old woman who was lying

29:29

face down

29:29

in the street after a police officer

29:31

had punched her, people were shocked.

29:36

People said Winston Churchill was responsible

29:38

for the violence.

29:40

Churchill wrote that

29:41

the whole thing was no doubt, quote,

29:44

a misunderstanding. Black

29:46

Friday was the trigger and there was

29:48

writing, sporadic writing

29:50

over the next five to six days

29:53

in and around Westminster. You might imagine

29:55

that lots of the women who had been badly pummeled

29:58

or traumatised or shocked,

29:59

or groped

30:01

all these things, that that

30:03

would be it for them. They wouldn't go back and do any

30:05

more of that, but they were determined to

30:07

have their voices heard and

30:10

where physically possible they went

30:12

back and carried on protesting police

30:14

behavior.

30:16

Many women were arrested in the weeks following

30:18

Black Friday, including

30:20

one who threw a potato at Winston

30:22

Churchill's front door. One

30:25

woman hit a policeman in the face and reportedly

30:28

said, that is for

30:30

Friday.

30:32

Mrs. Pankhurst said, we've got

30:34

to think of another way of protesting.

30:36

We need to go underground

30:39

and we need to wage a guerrilla war

30:42

on this government, and they were her exact words.

30:45

So Black Friday is a really important moment

30:47

because the campaign changes and it goes underground

30:50

and then it spreads like wild. It

30:53

really is like a wildfire spreading

30:55

around the country.

30:57

Diane Atkinson says that after

31:00

Black Friday, the suffragette

31:02

movement changed. All

31:03

sorts of new militant tactics

31:05

are going to be invented and deployed,

31:07

like putting small phosphorus bombs

31:10

into mailboxes all around the

31:12

country destroying the mail and generally

31:15

causing a great deal of disruption,

31:17

for example, the telephone wires between London

31:19

and Glasgow were cut, burning

31:21

with acid onto golfing greens, no

31:24

vote, no golf, attacking buildings,

31:26

burning down empty houses. Nobody was ever killed. They

31:28

was rekied the building before they attacked it.

31:31

Sports facilities, sports stadia

31:33

were affected by suffragette militancy.

31:36

So they're popping up everywhere.

31:40

Writer Helen Scott notes that the

31:42

authorities had a hard time keeping up with the

31:44

suffragettes, who are unpredictable

31:47

because they were often acting independently of one

31:49

another and kept coming up with new

31:51

tactics. She

31:54

writes that the atmosphere has been called

31:56

one of, quote, pressurized

31:58

one-upmanship.

32:01

And then, in January 1913,

32:04

London's Police Chief Commissioner gathered

32:07

directors of museums and galleries

32:08

to warn them that

32:10

they might be next. The

32:13

police had reason to believe that the suffragettes

32:16

might start attacking

32:17

works of art.

32:19

The museum and gallery directors discussed banning

32:21

women from coming in at all,

32:24

or making them sign a declaration at the entrance,

32:27

promising that they wouldn't do anything, or

32:30

even just closing altogether for a little while.

32:33

However, it was decided that these

32:35

kinds of measures were impractical, so it wasn't practical

32:38

to close for the duration of however

32:40

long this might take, because it was appreciated that

32:43

the campaign for suffrage was not one that was going to

32:45

be over quickly, so that would be them deciding

32:48

to close for a very prolonged period, an unknown

32:50

period of time.

32:54

For a lot of my career, I worked at the National

32:56

Portrait Gallery in London, so I

32:58

was there

32:59

for 15 years, I was told.

33:02

Tell me a

33:04

little bit about the National Portrait

33:06

Gallery.

33:07

Sure, so it's a national collection

33:10

of portraits that's basically supposed

33:12

to tell the story of British history

33:15

through figures who have made

33:17

significant contributions to its

33:19

history, to its culture

33:20

and to its society, and

33:22

it does that by acquiring and

33:25

displaying portraits of significant

33:27

figures, men and women who have made

33:29

the history of Britain as it's come to be today.

33:32

Barney Millan found some documents

33:34

in the museum's archives from 1913 and 1914, in which

33:39

museum administrators discussed how they

33:41

could keep their collections safe

33:43

from suffragettes.

33:44

Because of the kind of fear of attack,

33:47

you begin to see that obviously museums and

33:49

galleries are having to change the way

33:51

that they display their works of art in response

33:53

to this threat. Works of art which they thought

33:55

would be particularly provocative or potentially

33:57

had a greater risk of

33:59

of being targeted, they were taken off display.

34:02

So for

34:02

example, there were two large group

34:04

portraits of the Houses of Parliament

34:06

which were taken down so that they wouldn't

34:09

potentially be targeted. Other works

34:11

of art were moved, so they were kind

34:14

of placed higher up on the walls so that

34:16

they were more out of reach of an

34:18

attack because the woman's arm

34:20

couldn't reach high enough. Exactly.

34:22

So there's even some remarks in the press saying, you

34:24

know, that works of art had been rehung

34:27

at such a high level that only a very

34:28

tall person would have been able to reach the

34:32

main part of the work. Bryony

34:34

Millon says that galleries and museums

34:36

at the time looked quite different

34:39

from what we're used to today. Today

34:41

we kind of expect there to be space for

34:43

the works of art to breathe, but

34:45

at this time the approach to

34:48

display with far busier is visually

34:50

much more crowded. So you would quite

34:52

often see works of art not quite floor

34:54

to ceiling, but a much larger number

34:57

of works of art on display on any wall

34:59

at a particular time.

35:01

In 1913, the National

35:03

Portrait Gallery also decided to

35:06

close off some parts of the museum, and

35:08

they hired undercover police officers to

35:11

patrol the galleries, pretending

35:13

to be museum visitors. But

35:16

that got expensive, so eventually

35:19

the police officers were let go and

35:21

two staff members were assigned to pretend to

35:23

be visitors.

35:25

Bryony Millon found letters between

35:27

museum directors worrying about

35:29

women and trying to figure out what to

35:31

do. There's a kind of dichotomy

35:34

in how the leadership

35:37

are representing

35:39

the level of threat. So when the

35:41

National Portrait Gallery's director is talking

35:44

to his superiors, as it were, so when

35:46

he's interacting via

35:48

letter with the board of trustees

35:50

who he answers to, he downplays

35:53

the level of threat. So he's trying to say, sort of,

35:55

you know, we've taken every sensible precaution,

35:58

we're in a better position.

35:59

than some of our peers are at

36:01

and that actually I think that

36:04

we are well placed in terms

36:07

of responding to this. But

36:09

if you look at how he communicates with his

36:12

assistant keeper, so obviously somebody who is

36:15

reporting to him, he's perhaps

36:17

far more

36:18

candid. So the level of threat that

36:20

he expresses when discussing with a colleague

36:22

is greater.

36:25

The museum director wrote that

36:27

some other museums were more at risk because

36:30

of quote the entire incompetence

36:33

of the staff. But

36:35

he also told his employees that

36:37

he wanted wired glass installed in

36:39

the window in his office in

36:41

case suffragettes would think it was quote a

36:44

favorable spot for the insertion

36:47

of combustibles.

36:51

We'll be right back.

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37:58

This year we've heard a country music. Revolution.

38:01

Not since 1958, have five country songs

38:03

topped the Hot 100. From Morgan Wallin's

38:05

uncancelling with his chart-topping comeback last

38:07

night, to Luke Holmes shaking things up with a

38:10

country crossover of Fast Car, 2023

38:12

is a year of country crossovers

38:14

and controversies. I'm Charlie Harding, co-host

38:17

of the Switched on Pop podcast, where this

38:19

week I speak with chart wizard Chris Malampy

38:21

about how country has taken over the charts. Tune

38:24

in to Switched on Pop. Y'all won't want to miss this.

38:28

By March 1914, Emmeline

38:31

Pankhurst was wanted by the police.

38:33

She was 55 years old and described

38:36

as looking frail. When

38:38

she arrived at a meeting in Scotland, she

38:40

was smuggled inside in the laundry basket.

38:43

Then police burst into the room and

38:45

dragged her out. She was badly

38:48

hurt and was described as half-fainting

38:51

when she was thrown into a car.

38:54

In prison, she went on hunger strike.

38:57

Suffragettes were worried about her.

39:01

One morning in March of 1914, a

39:05

woman named Mary Richardson made

39:07

her way to London National Gallery. She

39:10

came from quite a well-off background. She

39:13

was largely brought up by her grandparents because

39:15

her parents died quite young. She

39:17

wanted to be an artist. She wanted to be a writer.

39:19

She really wanted to make an independent

39:22

life of itself. And she

39:24

was really somebody who wanted to

39:26

be the middle of things. Mary

39:30

Richardson was there to see one painting

39:32

in particular.

39:34

It's called The Rokeby Venus.

39:38

It was painted in the mid 1600s by

39:40

the Spanish painter Diego Velasquez.

39:43

It's one of his most famous paintings. The

39:46

painting shows the goddess Venus lying

39:49

on a bed naked.

39:49

She's painted from the back.

39:52

In front of her, Cupid is holding

39:54

up a mirror. It's

39:57

almost as if Venus is looking directly

39:59

at the viewer.

39:59

through the mirror.

40:02

Art historians have called the Rokeby

40:05

Venus one of the most famous nudes

40:07

in Western art. In 1905

40:10

it was purchased from a wealthy family

40:13

for 45,000 pounds, almost 9

40:15

million US dollars today. A

40:18

newspaper at the time described Venus in the

40:20

painting as the

40:22

goddess of youth and health, the

40:24

embodiment of elastic strength

40:26

and vitality, the perfection

40:29

of womanhood. Mary

40:33

Richardson was 31 and

40:35

devoted to the suffragette movement.

40:38

She heard the news about Emmeline Panker's

40:40

arrest. So what she did, she

40:42

got up in the morning, she went and bought

40:44

a meat cleaver, which she hid in

40:46

the sleeve of her jacket. She

40:49

walked into the museum and headed straight

40:51

for the Rokeby Venus. This

40:53

was, you know, this is March.

40:55

London was full of tourists from all around the world, so

40:58

she'd have walked through the front door. Nobody

41:00

could imagine that this woman who walked in was

41:03

going to pose any threat. She

41:05

knew exactly which room the painting was in, she'd

41:08

reche'd the building beforehand. She

41:10

pretended to be an art student and started

41:12

drawing. The museum had

41:15

staff and undercover police officers walking

41:17

around the gallery floor.

41:20

When the moment seemed right, she

41:22

got closer to the Rokeby Venus

41:24

and she walked up to it and

41:27

took the meat cleaver

41:29

out of the sleeve of her jacket and just hacked at it.

41:31

The protective glass

41:33

shattered. There was a lot of noise. Two

41:36

German tourists tried to stall Mary Richardson

41:38

by throwing their guidebook at her.

41:41

Then she slashed the canvas

41:43

itself.

41:45

She slashed the painting at least six

41:47

or seven times. A

41:49

museum attendant said that he heard the

41:51

glass break and tried to run over.

41:55

He said he went as fast as he could on the quote,

41:56

slippery floor.

41:59

According to the Daily Telegraph, quote, the

42:03

presumption is that if the floor had been less

42:05

slippery,

42:05

or the attendant more

42:07

practice in moving over it, or better

42:09

shoeed, for instance, with rubber

42:12

shoes, some of the damage might

42:14

have been prevented.

42:17

Mary Richardson was arrested and,

42:19

quote, went quietly. Before

42:22

she was escorted out of the room, she turned around

42:25

and said,

42:26

Yes, I am a suffragette. I

42:28

broke the picture.

42:30

You can get another picture, but you can't

42:33

get a life. They are killing

42:35

Mrs. Pankhurst. Mary

42:38

Richardson had also written a statement that

42:40

she shared with the press.

42:43

She wrote,

42:44

I've tried to destroy the picture of the most beautiful

42:47

woman in mythological history as

42:49

a protest against the government. If

42:53

there is an outcry against my deed, remember

42:56

that such an outcry is a hypocrisy,

42:58

as long as they allow the destruction of Mrs. Pankhurst

43:01

and other women.

43:04

In court, Mary Richardson said she

43:06

cared more about justice than art. She

43:09

was sentenced to six months in prison.

43:13

It's interesting that she chose this picture

43:16

first. You know, if you look at it, it's a woman

43:18

staring at a picture of herself in the mirror,

43:21

but

43:21

she seems so calm and complacent

43:24

and just, you know, perfectly happy to just

43:26

be looking at herself and not,

43:29

you know, stirred up in any way. And

43:32

it's interesting that this would be the choice

43:34

for her to talk about what women

43:37

were really feeling.

43:38

Yeah, you're right. It's a very kind of ambiguous

43:41

work of art. You know, what is Deaness thinking?

43:43

It's really hard to tell. And Mary

43:46

Richardson at the time was very clear that

43:48

she targeted this work of art because

43:51

she felt that really the public

43:53

should be thinking about the damage that

43:55

was being

43:55

done to women in the present day. It's

43:58

interesting because in

43:59

later years, you know, she wrote her

44:02

own autobiography

44:03

and the way that she portrayed the

44:05

motivation many decades later was

44:07

slightly different. And when she was in her

44:10

70s, I think she said that she'd targeted this work

44:12

of art because she didn't like the way that men got

44:14

at it. So there was a, there was an implication

44:17

that she didn't like naked female

44:19

forms being subjected to the male gaze. But when

44:21

she was making statements at the time, the focus

44:24

was very much on trying to bring attention to

44:26

the treatment of imprisoned suffragettes.

44:29

Our historian Linda Nied writes that

44:31

the attack was seen as a battle between two

44:33

types of femininity. Quote,

44:36

the patriarchal ideal, the

44:38

Venus, and the deviant, the

44:41

militant suffragist.

44:43

Press reaction was incredibly frenzied.

44:45

The reaction to the attack was very

44:48

negative, as one might expect. But

44:50

also it's interesting because the focus

44:52

is very much on talking about this

44:54

work of art as if it were a human

44:57

body, as if maybe Richardson

44:59

had to physically attack a person

45:01

rather than a work of art. So the

45:03

staff at the National Gallery talk about the attack being

45:05

on the most

45:06

important part of the portrait,

45:07

the naked flesh.

45:10

Linda Nied writes that even though

45:12

the suffragettes never hurt anyone,

45:15

the press framed the story as a quote, sensational

45:18

murder case.

45:20

The painting was the perfect quote, victim.

45:23

The press nicknamed Mary Richardson, slasher

45:26

Mary, and

45:28

the ripper.

45:30

The Daily Telegraph described it as

45:33

probably the most wicked act of vandalism ever

45:36

committed in this

45:37

or any country. The

45:39

other interesting aspect is

45:40

that there was initially a real focus on

45:42

the financial damage for how much

45:44

the work might be depreciated by

45:47

the fact that she had actually slashed

45:49

it in addition to the kind of embarrassment

45:51

and shock factor of this happening in such

45:54

a public place.

45:56

Mary Richardson has been described

45:58

as quote,

45:59

a viewer.

45:59

who would no longer play the game. After

46:03

her attack on the Rokeby Venus,

46:05

several other art attacks followed.

46:08

It's happening in London, it happened in Manchester.

46:11

Wherever there are interesting important buildings

46:13

and local suffrage activists prepared to

46:15

do it, then no gallery and museum

46:18

and historic house that's open to the

46:20

public is safe. A

46:22

work called Primavera was attacked, and that

46:24

was another

46:25

example of a work of art representing

46:27

a female nude being attacked. And on the same

46:29

day, so on the 23rd of May 1914, a

46:32

portrait study

46:33

of then King George the Fifth

46:35

was attacked while it was on display

46:37

at the Scottish Royal Academy in

46:39

Edinburgh.

46:41

So all around the country are getting reports. In

46:43

Manchester, several paintings were attacked.

46:46

There was an attack at the National Gallery

46:48

again, so that was targeted for a second time.

46:51

And on that occasion, five old

46:53

masterworks

46:53

were attacked.

46:55

The five paintings were all hanging in the

46:57

museum's Venetian room. The

47:00

mummy case at the British Museum

47:03

was attacked.

47:04

Once a frigate smashed

47:05

the glass case protecting the mummy,

47:08

she was arrested.

47:10

A portrait of Henry James at the Royal Academy

47:13

on the 12th of May 1914, a

47:15

portrait of the Duke of Wellington was

47:17

attacked. And that's an instance where she could

47:19

only, because of the height

47:20

at which the work was hung, she could only get to

47:22

the lower portion of the work to

47:24

do damage to it.

47:29

Bryony Millan says museums

47:30

and art galleries changed their tactics.

47:34

At the British Museum, women could only enter if

47:36

they had been vouched

47:37

for by a man.

47:39

The National Portrait Gallery closed

47:41

entirely

47:41

for two weeks. A

47:44

less expected precaution was that some of the floors of the gallery,

47:46

the wooden floors, were

47:47

treated with a turpentine mixture. And

47:50

I think that this actually is a direct result of

47:53

the attack on the Rokeby Venus at the National

47:55

Gallery, because it was said at the time, in

47:57

contemporary

47:57

press reports, that some of the attendants...

47:59

on the highly polished

48:02

floors when they were trying to chase Mirewicz

48:04

and down to restrain her.

48:06

So I think that in the wake of that attack,

48:08

the National Portrait Gallery decided

48:10

that it had to change the floor

48:11

surface a little bit, so it treated it

48:13

with a tarpentine solution

48:16

so that it was less slippery in the event

48:18

that stuff had to give chase.

48:21

Bryony Millen says the gallery started using

48:23

a stronger type of glass,

48:24

marketed as hammerproof.

48:28

The staff started working longer hours

48:30

patrolling the museum.

48:33

Everybody knows that British people are very

48:35

focused on their tea, so

48:37

there were changes to the way that staff work,

48:40

and one of the changes that they made is that they had to

48:42

intensify the way that stuff was patrolled,

48:45

and so it meant that afternoon tea was abolished,

48:47

which I, I mean there wasn't anything in the archive

48:49

in the National Portrait Gallery just to show how staff

48:52

reacted, but I could only imagine that it was

48:54

quite

48:54

a controversial decision.

48:57

Museums and galleries continued receiving

48:59

updates from the police,

49:01

and the police would circulate photos

49:03

of suffragettes.

49:05

Bryony Millen says most of the photos

49:07

were taken in prison exercise yards

49:10

without the women's consent. There's an incredibly

49:13

interesting example. If you look in

49:15

particular at the surveillance photograph,

49:17

which was circulated to Museums and

49:19

Galleries, of Evelyn Menezpa, who was

49:22

one of the suffragettes who attacked

49:24

Manchester Art Gallery, if

49:26

you look at the photograph of Evelyn Menezpa,

49:28

that's been subjected

49:29

to what I will term, you know,

49:33

photo, photoshop, as it were, so

49:35

it's been manipulated. The undocked

49:38

photograph of her, you can

49:39

see that her head has been held up, so

49:42

somebody's got their arm around her throat

49:44

and is holding, is making

49:45

her hold her head up so that she can be photographed,

49:48

and she's still trying, I think,

49:50

to resist the photographic process because she's

49:52

closing her eyes and kind of screwing her face up.

49:55

But when that photograph was actually cropped

49:58

and circulated to Museums

49:59

galleries. The arm has been removed

50:02

and instead there's a scarf which

50:04

has basically been doctored and placed in

50:06

the photograph

50:07

instead of the arm. So

50:09

that's why I say it's a sort of early Photoshop

50:12

because they've tried to manipulate the image to make

50:14

it less confronting and make it look like she's just

50:16

wearing an accessory when in reality

50:18

she had someone's arm around her neck so

50:20

that that photograph could be taken.

50:25

In March and July

50:26

of 1914, 14 different

50:29

artworks were attacked in British museums

50:31

and art galleries. The

50:34

National Portrait Gallery had not been attacked.

50:37

Until July 17, 1914, when a woman who

50:42

used the alias Anne Hunt walked

50:44

into the museum. A staff

50:46

member noticed her and thought he had also

50:49

seen her at the museum the day before.

50:51

His suspicions were initially aroused

50:54

by her because he

50:56

remembered

50:56

seeing her the day before and rather

50:59

unflatteringly he thought that she was an American

51:02

because in his words because of the closeness

51:04

with which she examined the pictures.

51:07

But then he thought that she couldn't possibly

51:09

be an American because to his mind no

51:11

American would pay the sixpence entry

51:14

fee for a second day to come

51:16

on side to the National Portrait Gallery to view the collection.

51:19

So he followed her as far as he could

51:21

as she progressed to the gallery but

51:23

then he had

51:24

to take up his post and she continued

51:26

on.

51:28

Anne Hunt had served several prison

51:30

sentences for her activities as

51:32

a suffragette.

51:34

One time she was arrested near the Wimbledon tennis

51:36

club with some wood and matches.

51:40

But no one at the National Portrait Gallery

51:42

knew that. So she went into

51:44

the East Wing into room 25

51:46

where portraits of

51:49

men of literature

51:50

of the 19th century were on display.

51:52

And in that room there were two female

51:54

art students who were engaged in

51:56

copying works of art that were on display

51:58

in that room. Anne

52:00

Hunt had chosen a portrait of Thomas Carlyle,

52:04

a British writer and one of the museum's

52:07

founders. She

52:09

waited until a member of staff had left the

52:11

room.

52:12

An art student was standing close to her, making

52:14

sketches. She saw Anne

52:16

Hunt's hand coming over her shoulder with a meat

52:19

cleaver in it and thinking that she was being

52:21

attacked physically herself, she kind

52:23

of turned away and then realizing what

52:25

was happening. She tried to prevent

52:27

Anne Hunt from making further

52:29

contact, so she tried to wrestle with her. So

52:31

a member of staff obviously became aware

52:34

that something was going on and rushed back into the

52:36

room and effectively restrained

52:38

Anne Hunt, that that's how the attack ended.

52:42

She had broken the glass and hit the painting

52:44

at least three times.

52:48

That was the last attack on a work of art

52:50

by the suffragettes.

52:52

The larger militant campaign actually

52:54

was wound down in the summer

52:56

of 1914 and that's largely

52:58

because on the 4th

53:00

of August 1914 Britain declared

53:02

war, so we entered into the First

53:04

World War.

53:05

And at that stage, the suffragette leadership

53:07

basically took stock and

53:09

decided that they would switch their

53:11

focus.

53:12

So the militant campaign was wound

53:14

down and suffragette prisoners were released

53:17

and instead the suffragette leadership

53:19

changed their focus to getting

53:21

women involved with the home front and

53:24

in encouraging men to join up to be

53:26

part of the armed forces and contribute to the war effort

53:29

in that way.

53:36

When the suffragette Anne Hunt was in

53:38

court after attacking the portrait of Thomas

53:40

Carlyle, she gave a speech

53:42

to defend herself.

53:43

She made a very inflammatory,

53:46

shall we say, statement when she was in court.

53:49

This portrait will be of greater value

53:51

and an interest because

53:53

it has been honoured by the attention of a militant.

53:56

So obviously she was

53:57

being deliberately provocative but actually

54:00

Certainly as an archivist I would say that

54:02

she had a point because the

54:04

portrait itself is perhaps of greater

54:07

historical interest. So the

54:09

fact that it lived through this period,

54:11

that it was impacted by the Suffragette campaign

54:14

means that in a way its story is

54:16

enriched, that there's a different

54:18

layer to its history and one

54:20

that we can know about, interpret and

54:22

appreciate as the decades have gone on.

54:27

Both the Rokeby Venus and the portrait

54:30

of Thomas Carlisle were restored.

54:34

Earlier this month, the Rokeby

54:36

Venus

54:36

was targeted again, this

54:39

time by two climate activists protesting

54:42

new oil and gas projects in the UK. They

54:46

hid the protective glass covering the

54:48

painting ten times with

54:50

small hammers. A

54:53

spokesperson for the museum said the painting

54:55

sustained minimal damage. One

54:59

of the activists said, it's time

55:01

for deeds, not words.

55:03

They were both arrested.

55:13

Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and

55:16

me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer.

55:19

Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our

55:21

producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie

55:24

Sajiko, Lily Clark, Lina Sillison,

55:26

Sam Kim, and Megan Knane. Our

55:29

technical director is Rob Byers, engineering

55:32

by Russ Henry.

55:32

Julia Young

55:34

Harrison fact-checked this episode.

55:38

Julian Alexander makes original illustrations

55:40

for each episode of Criminal. You can see them

55:43

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podcast. Criminal

55:57

is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public

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56:30

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