Episode Transcript
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to catch a new episode every Thursday. Welcome
1:10
to Criminalia, a production of
1:13
Shondaland Audio in partnership with
1:15
iHeartRadio. According
1:22
to the Vermont State Pharmacy Association in 1921,
1:25
quote, Dr. Kilmer's swamp root kidney, liver
1:30
and bladder medicine is a medicine
1:32
of genuine merit. Thousands
1:35
of letters we have received from
1:37
druggists indicate that this has won the
1:39
confidence of the people. We
1:42
believe that the druggist who recommends
1:44
it thereby helps his own reputation
1:46
for reliability and truthfulness as his
1:48
customer is usually satisfied with the
1:50
results obtained from the use of
1:52
swamp root. Their
1:55
preparation is made upon honor and always
1:57
kept up to its high standard of
1:59
pure and excellence. They
2:02
weren't wrong. Swamp root was
2:04
a very popular patent medicine
2:07
product, but made
2:09
with honor and reputation
2:11
for truthfulness,
2:14
aren't we here in snake oil season?
2:17
Let's meet Dr. Kilmer and the
2:19
Kilmer family and talk about how
2:22
swamp root made them a ton
2:24
of money. Welcome to
2:26
Criminalia, I'm Maria Tremarke. And
2:28
I'm Holly Frye. The Kilmer
2:31
family was from the village of Cobbleskill,
2:33
New York, but this story takes place
2:35
in Binghamton, New York, that's about 100
2:37
miles away. It's
2:39
been said that the family was not
2:41
well liked. It's also been
2:43
said they didn't much like each other.
2:46
But we're not here to talk
2:49
family dynamics. Several generations
2:51
of Kilmer's influence to Binghamton's economy
2:53
and politics, it is the place
2:56
they left their mark. So
2:58
let's begin with Sylvester Andral Kilmer, who was
3:01
born on December 19th, 1840, one of 11
3:03
children. Andral,
3:07
as he was known, is the one who
3:09
started this whole thing. He
3:11
was well educated in medicine. We don't
3:13
see a lot of that in the
3:15
stories of snake oil salesmen, so that
3:17
seems like a good start. At
3:20
the age of 18, he entered his first
3:22
apprenticeship at the office of a man named
3:24
Dr. Scott, who was a prominent
3:26
allopathic physician in West Coherie County. He
3:29
then studied with Dr. Downing, who
3:32
was considered not only a successful
3:34
doctor, but also a pioneer of
3:36
homeopathy in New York State. When
3:39
Andral Kilmer, Dr. Kilmer, started his
3:41
own practice, it was as a
3:43
physician in the town of Barnerville,
3:46
only about four miles from
3:48
Cobbleskill. But he
3:50
also decided to continue his studies,
3:52
hoping to gain a broad knowledge
3:54
of medicine and surgery. And he
3:57
studied, well, a lot of things
3:59
in a lot of. places. He
4:01
apprenticed in eclectic and botanic
4:03
practice with Dr. Patrick of
4:05
Wisconsin. He attended Bellevue
4:07
Hospital and Medical College in New York
4:10
City, where he had specific
4:12
instruction at the Eye and Ear
4:14
Infirmary on Blackwell's Island, which today
4:16
is known as Roosevelt Island. At
4:20
the Philadelphia Lying and Charity
4:22
Hospital, he attended a special
4:24
course of instruction in practical
4:26
obstetrics and diseases of women.
4:29
He also received similar instruction
4:31
at the Central Dispensary of
4:33
Chicago. He studied at
4:35
the Philadelphia School of Operative Surgery
4:37
under noted physician Dr. Dee Hayes
4:39
Agnew, and he also
4:41
received a diploma from the Bennett
4:43
Medical College of Chicago. So this
4:45
guy was bonafide. And
4:48
after embarking on a successful tour
4:50
of medical lectures and practice, he
4:52
settled in Binghamton, New York. When
4:56
he first arrived in the city, he was
4:58
a visiting physician, providing services in
5:00
Binghamton and the surrounding towns just a
5:02
few days a week. His
5:04
medical practice and treatments became a
5:07
huge success, and he soon began
5:09
overseeing the construction of what
5:11
would be his laboratory buildings. These
5:13
were built with the intention of manufacturing
5:16
the remedies that he provided his patients,
5:19
remedies that were in ever-increasing
5:21
demand. Sometime
5:23
between 1878 and 1881, records are a little bit fuzzy
5:26
on that date, but it's likely 1878,
5:33
Andril invited his brother Jonas, a businessman
5:35
and graduate of the Bryant and Stratton
5:38
Business College in Albany, New York, to
5:40
help build what would become the hugely
5:43
successful patent medicine company, Kilmer &
5:46
Company. Jonas moved to
5:48
Binghamton and became responsible for the
5:50
company's advertising and marketing, and
5:52
generally ran the facility. Their
5:55
first major laboratory and manufacturing plant
5:57
was located at the corners of
5:59
Chinook. Nango and Virgil streets. Andra
6:02
prepared many, many medicines
6:04
in those laboratories, including
6:07
Dr. Kilmer's ocean weed heart
6:09
remedy, Dr. Kilmer's Indian
6:11
cough cure, Dr. Kilmer's
6:14
liver pills, autumn leaf extract,
6:16
UNO ointment, and Dr. Kilmer's
6:19
female remedy, which was described
6:21
as, quote, the
6:23
great blood purifier and system
6:26
regulator, as well as, quote,
6:28
the only herbal alternative
6:31
and depurative ever discovered,
6:33
specifically adapted to female
6:35
constitutions. But the
6:38
most well-known and best selling
6:40
product manufactured by Kilmer and
6:42
Company was Dr. Kilmer's swamp
6:44
root, kidney, liver, and bladder cure.
6:47
Note we've also seen it
6:49
labeled as Dr. Kilmer's swamp
6:51
root, kidney, liver, and bladder
6:53
remedy or medicine. Same
6:55
thing. Swamp
6:58
root, as it was popularly known, was introduced
7:00
in the mid 1870s. It
7:03
was an early item and probably the
7:05
first that was developed by Andra and
7:07
quickly became a household name. And
7:10
when you become that popular, it's not really
7:12
a surprise that people want to get in
7:14
on your success. There
7:17
were more than a few counterfeit products
7:19
that bore the Kilmer name. Inspired
7:22
imitators and counterfeiters produced products
7:24
that looked and sounded very
7:26
similar to the Kilmer products,
7:28
but could not and cannot be
7:30
found in any of the company's
7:32
official advertising or records. These
7:35
included, but were not limited
7:37
to, Dr. Kilmer's wild Indian
7:39
female cancer injection and
7:41
Dr. Kilmer's wild Indian female
7:43
secret. We are going
7:46
to take a break for a word from our sponsors.
7:48
And when we're back, we will talk
7:50
a whole lot about swamp root, which
7:52
was the key to the Kilmer success.
7:55
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8:25
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8:27
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8:30
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8:32
comfort and fit. Particularly of note
8:34
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8:36
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8:38
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8:40
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8:42
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8:44
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8:49
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Thursday. Welcome
12:36
back to Criminalia. Let's
12:39
begin talking about the Swamp Root
12:41
product. But we also
12:43
have a bit of company slash
12:45
brotherly scandal to discuss, too. Let's
12:49
talk about the star of the product line
12:51
first. Dr. Kilmer's Swamp Root
12:53
Kidney Liver and Bladder Cure. It
12:56
was a patented mixture of, quote, 24
12:59
proof and some herbs and spices at $1 a bottle,
13:03
according to an advertisement that also promised
13:05
it was a medical cure all. According
13:08
to an early ingredient list, though,
13:10
Swamp Root was actually a bit
13:13
of a lot of things. It
13:15
contained, quote, buku
13:17
leaves, oil of
13:19
juniper, oil of birch,
13:21
columbar root, sassafras, balsam
13:23
copaiba, balsam tolu, skullcap
13:25
leaves, venice turpentine, valerian
13:28
root, rhubarb root, mandrake
13:30
root, peppermint herb,
13:32
cape aloes, cinnamon, and sugar.
13:35
And it contained approximately 9%
13:37
to 10.5% alcohol per dose. We
13:41
did also see some ingredient lists
13:43
containing all of these with the
13:46
addition of goldenseal root. It
13:48
can be hard to nail down what
13:50
was really in patent medicines, but this
13:52
one seems to have stayed pretty consistent
13:54
over the years. The active
13:57
ingredient buku has been historically
13:59
used. used for urinary tract
14:01
infections, including those involving the
14:03
kidneys. So that's one
14:06
plus for this ingredient list's
14:08
benefits. Swamp
14:10
root was an exotically named
14:12
product. And its name was
14:15
the kind that patent medicine marketers liked
14:17
to use because they felt it made
14:19
the product more intriguing to consumers. While
14:22
it's unclear as to whether or
14:24
not Andral knew of and borrowed
14:26
from indigenous healing and herbal remedies,
14:29
he certainly did not mention it, there
14:31
is a plant called in Spanish,
14:34
Yerba delmanzo, which translates in English
14:36
to herb of the swamp. It
14:39
does grow in the United States, mostly
14:41
in Arizona. Did herb of
14:43
the swamp inspire swamp roots somehow?
14:46
There's nothing notable to suggest that
14:48
he took advantage of an indigenous
14:51
healing trope, whether in regard
14:53
to his remedies, ingredients, or even just
14:55
the name. But it is
14:57
an interesting connection at a time when
14:59
that was a very common thing to
15:01
do in proprietary medicine branding and advertising,
15:04
as suggested by those two imitator names we
15:06
mentioned just a bit ago. Speculation
15:10
though aside, when it hit the market
15:12
in the late 19th century, swamp
15:14
root packaging promised it was your
15:16
one stop remedy. But it
15:19
was most heavily marketed as a quote, diuretic
15:21
for the kidneys and a mild laxative.
15:24
The company claimed that quote, swamp root
15:27
tends to promote the flow of urine,
15:29
thereby aiding the kidneys in their necessary
15:31
work of eliminating waste matter. It
15:34
was sold in a screw cap
15:36
bottle contained in a bright orange
15:38
box bearing an engraved portrait of
15:40
S. Andral Kilmer, MD. In
15:43
fact, Andral's image appeared on
15:46
all product packaging as well as
15:48
labels, books, trading cards, and other
15:51
promotional materials. The
15:53
distribution of his products became so widespread,
15:55
some claimed his face was more recognizable
15:57
than that of the President of the
15:59
United States. States. True or
16:01
not? Who knows? Could be. In
16:04
addition to his likeness, all the
16:06
Kilmer products had an outline of its
16:08
intended use on its bottle. And
16:10
what we mean by that is glass
16:13
bottles of swamp root, kidney, liver,
16:15
and bladder cure, for instance, featured
16:17
an embossed kidney on each container.
16:21
In 1882, a fire destroyed
16:24
the original Kilmer factory. The Kilmer
16:27
brothers rebuilt, and in just a few
16:29
years, the new eight-story plant in Binghamton
16:31
was filling more than 2000 bottles
16:34
an hour. The economic impact
16:36
on the area was significant,
16:38
too. The new, larger
16:40
factory employed hundreds of people in
16:43
the city. But
16:46
then, in 1892, Jonas ousted Andral, and some
16:48
suggest that
16:51
he may likely have swindled his brother out
16:54
of the business. However, it
16:56
really went down. He bought out
16:58
Andral and brought his own son,
17:00
Willis, fresh out of Cornell University
17:02
on as marketing director. And
17:05
when Willis joined the company, he embraced
17:07
the idea of mass marketing to make
17:09
his uncle's name and remedies a nationally
17:11
known brand. When asked
17:13
what swamp root was good for, he
17:15
famously answered, quote, about a
17:18
million dollars a year. By 1895,
17:20
the Kilmer company product
17:24
line had grown and consisted of 18 patent
17:27
medicines. None of the new
17:29
products were created by Andral, and none,
17:31
as you can guess, were worth spending
17:33
your money on. Willis took
17:35
control of the company in 1912 when
17:38
his father, Jonas, died. Now,
17:40
we've talked at length this season
17:43
about how certain popular medicines manufactured
17:45
by the Kilmers and by others that are
17:47
in the same game claimed
17:50
to be remedies for anything
17:52
and everything from dandruff to
17:54
cancer and sometimes both. Patent
17:57
medicines were popular, period, but they were
17:59
a especially popular among pioneers
18:01
traveling westward during the American expansion
18:03
in the mid to late 1800s.
18:08
These were people and families leaving
18:10
cities, leaving behind civilized society,
18:12
and they did not know if they
18:14
would have access to the care of
18:16
a medical doctor, even one
18:19
with dubious credentials or even a
18:21
druggist. Traveling west
18:23
was a very dangerous adventure. Coincidentally,
18:26
it happened at the same time
18:28
early mass marketing of patent medicines
18:31
was beginning on the east coast.
18:34
And Americans who were looking for something
18:36
to help ease the uncertainty of their
18:38
health as they crossed the United States
18:40
often brought along an assortment of
18:43
various patent medicines. Swamp
18:45
root was an important part
18:47
of many kits, not for
18:49
its advertised laxative properties necessarily.
18:52
People often used it as an antiseptic,
18:55
an important product to have for infection
18:57
control when you're in the wild west
18:59
for sure. In
19:02
contrast to those families, the
19:04
Kilmer family lived on a
19:06
palatial estate in Binghamton, New
19:08
York. They had four
19:10
mansions and eventually owned a
19:12
lodge, a yacht, and a
19:15
stable of racehorses, including
19:17
Kentucky Derby winner Exterminator. And
19:20
they could thank the overwhelming sales
19:22
of Andrall's swamp root for those
19:24
trappings. The Depression of the 1890s,
19:27
which was caused by several factors
19:30
converging at once in the country,
19:32
didn't really put a dent in
19:34
their sales, nor did growing unemployment
19:36
in the wake of nationwide business
19:38
failures diminish their profits. And
19:40
that was lucky for them, but
19:43
not so lucky for the city's
19:45
residents they employed. When
19:47
sales numbers did fall slightly,
19:50
Jonas and Willis, unfortunately,
19:52
chose to take the difference out
19:54
of their employees' pay, allowing
19:56
the company then to continue to bottle and
19:59
package products for the company. without any impact.
20:02
And when it came to lowering pay, one
20:04
more thing caught our eye. Everyone
20:06
took a hit, but women
20:08
were penalized the most. Records
20:10
note female employees had been making
20:13
10 cents per every 1,000 units
20:15
bottled at the factory before 1895,
20:19
but after only seven cents
20:22
per 1,000 units. As
20:25
the peak patent medicine days
20:27
wound down, Swamproot actually held
20:29
strong. Well, eventually the Pure Food
20:32
and Drug Act of 1906 forced
20:34
the company to change the wording on
20:36
their products as they had banned the
20:38
use of the word cure on bottles
20:40
or advertising in the United States. Swamproot,
20:43
with its revised labeling, was still
20:45
on the market into the mid
20:47
20th century, roughly until
20:50
the 1940s after the Second World War.
20:53
After Willis's death in 1940, his
20:55
second wife, Sarah Jane Wells, sold
20:58
the rights to make and
21:00
manufacture Swamproot to Medtech Laboratories
21:02
of Cody, Wyoming. We're
21:05
going to take a break for a word from
21:07
our sponsors, but this isn't the end of the
21:09
Kilmer story. When we're back,
21:12
we'll bring Andral back into this
21:14
picture. Dearest
21:24
listener, in a world where fashion
21:26
often neglects the true diversity of
21:29
the human form, Snag emerges as
21:31
the beacon of inclusivity we so
21:33
desperately need, renowned for their exquisite
21:35
types. Snag has triumphantly expanded its
21:37
offerings to include garments that embrace
21:40
every body. Snag's creations are meticulously
21:42
designed on a life-like figures and
21:44
refined across a spectrum of shapes
21:46
before gracing our wardrobes, clothing that
21:48
not only promises, but delivers true
21:51
comfort and fit, particularly of note
21:53
other chub rub shorts, ingeniously crafted
21:55
with a moisture-wicking yarn to ensure
21:57
urine. at least one degree cooler
21:59
and entirely free from the dreaded
22:02
chafing. Perfect for every season. These
22:04
shorts can be discreetly worn under
22:06
your clothes, offering a delightful alternative
22:08
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22:11
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22:13
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22:15
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22:17
ideal companion. Remember, dear listener, the
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more you snag, the more you
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fashion revolution that is snag at
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SnagTights.us. Welcome
22:34
back to Criminalia. Let's
22:37
not forget Andral, the real doctor who
22:39
started this whole story. Shortly
22:43
before Andral sold his interest in Kilmer
22:45
& Co. to Jonas, he
22:47
was already scouting for the right
22:49
place to start another company. And
22:52
he found it... Adriana...? Adriana...
23:53
The buildings were fitted with every
23:56
modern convenience of the time, including
23:58
things like electric lighting, steam, heaters
24:00
and elevators. But what
24:03
made the property perfect for him
24:05
was that there was a sulfophosphate
24:07
spring on the grounds. Soaking
24:10
in or drinking the mineral water of
24:12
these alleged healing springs was believed to
24:14
be a cure for everything
24:16
from rheumatism to obesity to
24:19
skin ailments and asthma. Think
24:21
of the longest list of health conditions
24:23
you can, and these springs were going
24:25
to heal every single item on your
24:28
list. There were
24:30
also ten other springs on
24:32
the property. A few to
24:34
mention included the blue lithium,
24:36
red iron, black magnetic, and
24:38
ferromanganese. In addition,
24:40
sulfur, Turkish, Russian, and electric
24:43
baths were used all year
24:45
round. Andra
24:48
began formally treating cancer patients in
24:50
the 1890s, both
24:52
at the sanitarium outside the city, and
24:54
also what was known as the cancer
24:57
thorium, which he'd built at 254 Conklin
25:00
Avenue in Binghamton. Andral's
25:02
son Ulysses was employed as
25:04
associate superintendent, and his daughter
25:06
Edith was the librarian. Another
25:09
of the Kilmer brothers, Andrew, quit
25:12
his successful career as an educator
25:14
to work in the business office
25:16
of the sanitarium and hydrotherapium. Later,
25:19
he would become the assistant superintendent.
25:22
Andral advertised his cancer cure nationally and
25:24
offered to pay train fare to the
25:26
sanitarium for anyone who would commit to
25:29
a stay of three to six months.
25:32
This wasn't a quick treatment. Also,
25:35
remember, the D&H was super convenient and
25:37
close to the sanitarium, so this would
25:39
have been a good perk to get
25:41
patients to his facility. And
25:44
he attracted patients with his homeopathic
25:46
approach to treating cancer. His
25:49
method is not too surprising, though.
25:52
We talked about his education in
25:54
both conventional and homeopathic medicine earlier
25:56
in the episode, and
25:58
his practice involved a controlled diet,
26:01
but the hard hitter was treatment with
26:03
the different springs. He
26:05
administered a medicine as well, but we
26:08
have no record of an ingredients list.
26:11
It was supposed to expel the
26:13
cancer from the body after ongoing
26:15
treatment. If you had an
26:17
ulcerating cancer, for instance, which is when a
26:19
tumor breaks through the skin, allegedly,
26:22
this medicine would cause that tumor
26:24
to fall off. He
26:27
did not use radium, x-rays,
26:29
or surgeries for two main
26:31
reasons. First, he considered
26:33
those treatments injurious to the patient.
26:36
And second, he felt those treatments
26:38
could cause some cancers to actually
26:40
spread or become difficult to treat.
26:43
Doctors practicing traditional medicine of
26:45
the time, not homeopathy, considered
26:48
Andral's former ties to proprietary
26:50
medicine to be suspicious. And
26:53
because of it, they did not support
26:55
his cancer facility or his practices. They
26:59
called his methods dubious. And
27:01
though he was a well-educated
27:03
physician and surgeon who had
27:05
gotten out of the patent
27:08
medicine game, they began to
27:10
ridicule him for not performing surgeries
27:12
as they would have performed, or
27:14
daring to use techniques on his
27:16
patients that weren't conventional treatment techniques.
27:19
Despite how his peers saw him,
27:22
his patients, its well-reported, held
27:24
him and his cancer treatments
27:27
in high regard. While
27:29
we don't know how effective those therapies
27:31
actually were, he was clearly
27:34
serious about the care his patients
27:36
received. In fact, we know
27:38
he was giving treatments just three days before
27:40
he died at his home in 1924. Awwww.
27:45
So that is- Andral. Andral. Would
27:48
you like a little sip of something cozy to
27:51
cure what ails you? Yes,
27:53
as long as it's not
27:55
some sort of off-brand Dr.
27:57
Kilmer's female cancer infection. Welllllllll!
28:04
You can't make that promise. I'll try it
28:06
anyway. Not entirely. You'll
28:09
see. In
28:16
the ingredients list that we read of what
28:18
was in the swamp root
28:20
treatment, of course I fixated on
28:23
cinnamon and sugar. And I got
28:25
to thinking about those flavors and how they're
28:27
often, like cinnamon in particular is often used
28:29
in autumnal drinks. But we are
28:31
in the middle, not even the middle, we're at the
28:33
early stages of what seems like a
28:35
brutal summer here in the Northern Hemisphere. And
28:38
I thought, what if we could figure out a drink
28:40
that had those flavors, but
28:42
it was a good summer sip. You
28:44
could also sip it in autumn, but
28:46
it is made as an
28:48
iced, light drink. And I
28:50
got to thinking about another thing associated with summer,
28:52
at least in the US, and that is apple
28:55
pie. I love these warm spices.
28:57
I can't wait. The spices already sounding great.
29:00
We're going to make something refreshing and
29:02
not too warm. I will also say
29:04
that I'm going to pull back the
29:06
curtain on criminilia for a minute because
29:08
we had to last minute move our
29:10
recording this week. And I had
29:12
made a drink for it that we would have
29:14
talked about if we recorded a couple of days
29:16
ago, but I was never 100%
29:18
happy with it. And I'm
29:21
glad we ended up delaying
29:23
because I got to re-workshop it and now
29:25
I like it heaps. It
29:27
wasn't bad at all, but it wasn't what I
29:29
wanted. And now it has come out in the
29:31
end. And now it's, I
29:34
think, a more appropriate and delicious drink
29:36
for what we're doing here today. Excellent.
29:38
So into your shaking tin, you will put
29:40
a half ounce
29:42
of simple syrup, a
29:44
quarter of an ounce, just a little dobble
29:46
doo ya, of cinnamon liqueur. That
29:49
can be something like a gold slager, but if you
29:51
have a cinnamon liqueur without gold flakes, the flakes make
29:53
no difference on this one. Three
29:56
quarters of an ounce of lemon juice and
29:58
an ounce and a half. of like
30:00
a good dark spiced rum. And
30:03
then to that, you're also going to
30:05
add three ounces of apple juice. I
30:07
always suggest a low sugar apple juice
30:09
because otherwise it gets overwhelming and cloying.
30:13
And then you will shake
30:15
that and get it nice and cold.
30:18
Before you strain it over ice,
30:21
you're gonna take your serving
30:23
glass, dip one half
30:25
of the rim in water
30:28
or lemon juice, and then into a mix
30:31
of cinnamon and sugar. The reason you're only
30:33
doing half of the glass, if you are
30:35
making this just for yourself and you know
30:37
you love cinnamon and sugar, dip the whole
30:39
thing, that's fine. But I have started, and
30:41
I know a lot of other folks that
30:43
make drinks and even places that serve alcohol
30:46
as like their business has started
30:48
doing like a half rim. And
30:50
that's because not everybody wants the
30:53
stuff that's on the rim. Some people just like
30:55
to take a sip of the drink. That's my
30:57
little thing. Cinnamon and sugar, throw in your ice,
30:59
strain your drink over that. So
31:02
good and refreshing. It tastes
31:04
like summer, but I bet if we were sitting here in
31:06
October, I would be like, this tastes like autumn. Sprinkle
31:09
a little cinnamon on top if you
31:11
wanna give it a little more cinnamonosity,
31:14
a cinnamontorium. That's the
31:16
manufacturing plant where we make this beverage. Yes,
31:19
and it's just delightful. And I'm just
31:21
calling this sugared swamp root. Sort of
31:23
an imitation of swamp root, but it's
31:25
its own thing. Also, if you
31:27
wanna make the mocktail here, since we're doing a
31:30
dark spiced rum, this is
31:32
one where I would suggest subbing
31:34
that out with, I
31:36
would do like a chai
31:38
tea. Spicy, yummy,
31:41
warmed, not
31:43
warm to the temperature you're gonna cool it,
31:46
but warm in terms of its flavor profile
31:48
tea. If you want to
31:50
give that a little more body, you can also drop
31:52
a little bit of like a white grape juice in
31:55
there, but I think with the apple juice, you don't
31:57
have to do that. So in that
31:59
case, it would be the exact... same, you're
32:01
just using an ounce and a half of
32:03
a brewed and then cooled chai to throw
32:05
in there. Delicious. And
32:08
then you can have sugared swamp root all
32:10
the time. Also, obviously, in that case, if
32:12
you're doing a mocktail, you're not going to
32:14
use cinnamon liquor. You'll just use a little
32:16
dollop of cinnamon syrup, whatever delights you if
32:18
you have some on hand. Easy
32:20
to make. Throw your sugar and your water
32:22
in a pan with a few cinnamon sticks.
32:25
Let that simmer for a bit. Cool off and
32:27
strain. You got cinnamon syrup. Easy peasy. I'm
32:30
going to drink these all summer long. I
32:32
know that recently I was like, oh, this drink sounds like
32:34
it's going to whatever. I forget which episode it was, but
32:36
the drink inspired me to say such
32:39
things as this might be my favorite drink of
32:41
the season, but we'll see. And now
32:43
I have this drink in competition.
32:45
I'm just going to say if we
32:47
had recorded two days ago, that would
32:49
not have been the case. But
32:52
we didn't. And now we have a level of
32:54
numbers. Something's changed. Originally, this thing had like a
32:56
heavy cream topper on it. And it was a
32:59
there were different ingredients and it was fine,
33:01
but it wasn't quite what I wanted. You
33:03
and your patent medicine drink ingredients list. I
33:07
can't keep them straight. Can't
33:09
do it. Can't do it. We hope
33:11
if you make this, that you find it a
33:13
delightful sip, whether in its alcoholic
33:15
or non-alcoholic version. We are so thankful
33:17
that you spent this time with us
33:20
talking about Andrall and his brother and
33:22
their various sons and all of
33:24
the family drama. And we will be right here
33:26
next week again with a tale of snake oil
33:28
and a drink to go with it. Criminalia
33:37
is a production of Shondaland Audio in
33:39
partnership with I Heart Radio. For more
33:41
podcasts from Shondaland Audio, please visit the
33:44
I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
33:46
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
33:50
Dearest listener, allow me to
33:52
unveil a delightful secret. Snag
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tights, craft clothing that embraces
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every...
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