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Listener discretion is advised. Hello

1:01

everyone and welcome to Episode

1:03

294 of the Criminology Podcast.

1:12

This is Mike Ferguson. And

1:14

this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, buddy,

1:16

how are you doing? I'm doing

1:18

pretty good. How are you doing? I'm doing great.

1:21

You know, I was like 60-something degrees

1:23

here yesterday. I was happy. I

1:26

felt better. I got outside a little bit.

1:28

It's nice. Good. And

1:30

I just saw in the weather today, they might have

1:32

some shaky, cold, nasty weather next

1:35

week up in the Northeast. So hopefully it

1:37

lasts for you. Yeah. No,

1:40

it won't. That's the thing. It'll be

1:42

60 and then it'll be 10. That's

1:45

just how it goes, man. And before

1:47

you know, it'll be 90. Yeah.

1:49

Yeah. With very

1:51

little in-between time. That's

1:53

the thing I've noticed is I've got an order. The

1:56

in-between time where, you know, Hey, let's

1:59

open the wind. It's like 70. That

2:03

is a very short window of time. No

2:05

pun intended. Exactly. Let's

2:08

go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We

2:10

had Michelle Garten and

2:13

Kevin Twiddle. So some great new

2:15

support. We really appreciate it. Yeah.

2:18

Thank you so much for taking the time to support the show. It really

2:20

helps us out. For anyone else that

2:22

would like to, you can do so by

2:24

going to patreon.com/criminology. All right.

2:26

So it's time to dive right

2:28

into this week's episode. In our

2:31

last episode, we covered the Chowchilla

2:33

kidnappings in which a school bus

2:35

full of children were kidnapped, but

2:37

luckily they were recovered. The

2:40

case made headlines and there

2:42

was a lot of attention on it. In

2:44

this episode, we're covering another case

2:46

of a young victim who went

2:48

missing, a case that has

2:50

also received a lot of attention. But

2:53

unfortunately in this case, there have been no

2:55

answers, no resolution. We're talking

2:57

about the June, 2010 disappearance

3:01

of seven year old Kyron Horman.

3:04

Kyron Horman was born September 9,

3:06

2002 in Portland, Oregon to

3:09

parents Desiree Young and Kane Horman. Despite

3:12

Kyron's impending birth, the relationship

3:14

between Desiree and Kane ended and

3:16

they divorced in the summer of 2002 when Desiree

3:19

was eight months pregnant. Despite

3:21

the breakup, Desiree and Kane tried to

3:23

stay on good terms for Kyron's sake. And

3:26

for two years, they had shared custody of Kyron. In

3:29

2004, Desiree was diagnosed with

3:31

kidney failure and required extensive

3:33

medical treatment, so much so that

3:36

she decided it was best for her to give up

3:38

her custody of Kyron to Kane while she

3:40

focused on her health. She also

3:42

gave up custody of another son she had from

3:44

a previous relationship. Despite that, she

3:47

stayed in Kyron's life while she battled her illness.

3:51

In 2002, while Kane and Desiree were

3:53

going through their divorce, Kane met a

3:55

woman named Terry Moulton and

3:57

they began dating. They had a lot

3:59

in common. Both having a son, Terry

4:01

had a son named Jay from

4:03

a previous relationship. In

4:06

2007, Cain, an intel

4:08

engineer, and Terry, a substitute

4:10

teacher, got married. By

4:12

December 2008, Terry gave birth to

4:15

the couple's first child together, a

4:17

daughter named Cara. Together, Cain,

4:20

Terry, Kyren, Jay, and Cara

4:23

lived in a large, secluded home, located

4:26

on Northwest Sheltered Nook

4:28

Road in Portland. And

4:31

Kyren attended Skyline Elementary School, which

4:33

was just about three miles away.

4:36

In 2010, when Kyren was seven years

4:38

old, he was a second grader there. On

4:41

Thursday, June 3rd and Friday, June 4th of

4:43

that year, Skyline Elementary had

4:45

a two-day long science fair. Kyren

4:48

was really happy about this fair and

4:50

had researched tree frogs for his project,

4:53

and he was excited to tour other students'

4:55

projects and show off his work to

4:57

other people. On Thursday, the

4:59

first day of the fair, Terry drove

5:01

Kyren to school taking his father's pickup

5:03

truck. Kyren's baby sister, Cara,

5:05

was along for the ride. Terry

5:07

wouldn't normally take Cain's truck. In

5:10

fact, Kyren would usually take the bus

5:12

to school. But the science fair was early

5:14

in the morning, and driving to school

5:16

in the truck made it easier to transport

5:18

Kyren's project. He got it there and

5:20

into the school without incident. That day,

5:22

he presented it to his fellow schoolmates. So

5:25

I'm going to ask you the question, Morph. Do

5:28

you remember the science fairs?

5:30

And did you participate? Did you

5:32

make a project? I

5:34

don't remember so much the science fairs. I mean,

5:37

we did do little science projects, but they weren't

5:39

like giant ones. But I do remember I did some

5:42

kind of project for school that was a it

5:45

was like a recreation of some Civil War fort

5:47

or something. And it was major. And I made

5:49

it out of Lincoln logs. And it was, I

5:52

don't know, it's probably five feet by five

5:54

feet. And there was no way to get

5:56

to school. So we I don't remember

5:58

how we got it there. It was a chore

6:00

getting it there. Okay, that doesn't sound like

6:02

it would have to do with the science fair, but

6:04

I get ya. You think back

6:07

about some of the things that we

6:09

did as kids and the strain

6:11

that it put on our parents. We didn't

6:13

think about it back then, right?

6:15

How are we gonna get this five foot

6:18

by five foot Lincoln Log

6:20

Fort to the school? Well,

6:23

the parents have to figure that out. As

6:25

kids, we're just excited. I

6:28

wanna show off my fort. I do remember, I

6:31

think one year doing a volcano, one

6:33

year doing a clock that

6:35

ran on potatoes, you know, kind

6:38

of the standby stuff. Yeah,

6:40

I do remember hoping that my little

6:42

science experiments like the volcanoes would work when

6:44

they were supposed to, I'm crossing

6:46

my fingers as I set it off. Now,

6:49

I do not remember my kids doing

6:51

science fairs, so I don't know if

6:53

that's still a big deal or not.

6:56

The next day, Friday, June 4th,

6:59

Terri once again drove Kyron to school

7:01

in the truck with baby Kyra, and

7:03

so her thought was that

7:05

she'd quickly be bringing the project out to

7:07

the truck and taking it home, but

7:10

her assumption was not correct because

7:12

that day, all of the students

7:14

and the families of the students

7:17

were allowed to come see their

7:19

projects. Terri and Kyron arrived at

7:21

the school around 8 a.m. Usually,

7:25

Skyline didn't open until closer to 8.30,

7:28

just before the first bell of the morning

7:30

when classes started at 8.45, but

7:33

on the two days of the fair, the

7:35

school was open at 8 a.m. so

7:37

that friends and family of students

7:40

could tour the science fair and

7:42

the school. It was like an

7:44

end-of-the-year open house. Once at

7:46

the school, Terri took a picture of

7:49

Kyron. He was grinning proudly

7:51

in front of his science project

7:53

on the red-eyed tree frog. At

7:55

about 8.15, school

7:58

PTA president Gina Zimmerman

8:00

noticed Terry and Kyron next

8:02

to his exhibit next

8:05

Kyron and Terry saw his teacher miss

8:07

Porter and told her they were going

8:09

to look at some of the other

8:11

children's exhibits Kyron and

8:13

Terry with baby Kira walked

8:15

to the school's library and

8:18

returned books Probably the ones

8:20

they needed to prepare for the

8:22

science project though. This hasn't been

8:24

verified They also stopped by the

8:26

classroom of mr. Macbeth who

8:29

was Kyron's Kindergarten and first

8:31

grade teacher at 845

8:33

a.m. The first bell rang it

8:35

was time for class to begin According

8:38

to Terry while still on the first floor

8:40

of the school Kyron proposed

8:42

that he and Terry race up

8:44

different stairwells to his classroom on

8:47

the second floor According

8:49

to her when she exited the

8:51

stairwell Kyron was already

8:53

walking towards his classroom She

8:56

called out his name said goodbye and

8:58

walked back down the stairs She

9:00

left the school on what should have

9:03

been just another normal day, but

9:05

it turned out to be anything But later

9:07

that day at 3 30 p.m. Terry

9:10

Kane and little care all arrived together

9:12

at the bus stop Pick Kyron up,

9:15

but they were informed by the bus driver that Kyron

9:17

hadn't boarded the bus home that day figuring

9:19

there was a miscommunication Kyron thought

9:21

he was getting picked up from school since he had

9:23

been driven The bus driver called the

9:25

school's office to inform them that Terry and Kane would

9:27

be picking him up soon After

9:29

walking home from the bus stop and then driving to

9:32

the school Terry and Kane learned

9:34

that Kyron hadn't been in class that day That's

9:36

when the panics had it and really

9:38

set into motion this mystery that still persists after

9:40

more than a decade Being

9:43

told Kyron hadn't made it to class

9:45

made no sense Since

9:47

Terry had driven Kyron to school and

9:49

they had both been inside the building

9:51

that morning Kyron's backpack and

9:53

his jacket were still in the classroom

9:56

his absence had been noted by his

9:58

teacher miss Porter But she didn't find

10:00

it strange because she was

10:02

under the assumption he had been taken to

10:05

a scheduled doctor's appointment that she had

10:07

been told about. Terry had spoken

10:09

to Ms. Porter about the appointment

10:11

because the doctor would need information

10:13

about how Kyron was doing in

10:15

school. Terry was given

10:17

observation forms for Ms. Porter

10:19

to fill out, which would be picked up

10:22

and returned to the doctor to help with

10:24

the assessment. And because of all of this,

10:27

Porter made the assumption that Kyron

10:29

was at disappointment, but unfortunately the

10:31

teacher was wrong. After the

10:33

mix-up and disappearance came to light, everyone

10:36

sprang into action. At 3.46 p.m.,

10:39

the Skyline Elementary School Secretary,

10:42

Susan Hall, called 911

10:44

and officially reported Kyron missing. She

10:47

then called Kyron's mom, Desiree Young, to inform

10:49

her of the situation. Terry

10:51

and Kane were there while the call was made,

10:53

speaking to staff and trying to figure out what

10:55

could have happened. By 5.30 p.m.,

10:58

an alert had been sent out to every parent

11:00

with a child in the Portland Public Schools District,

11:03

notifying them that Kyron did not make it

11:05

home from school, and due to his

11:07

age, the FBI was immediately

11:09

alerted. We talk in a lot

11:11

of cases how their stalling and the authorities

11:13

sometimes brush off or explain away a child's

11:15

disappearance, but in this case, they

11:18

really took the disappearance serious right

11:20

away. But unfortunately, a lot of

11:22

crucial time had passed since Kyron

11:24

was last seen, when it was realized

11:26

he was missing. And I do think,

11:28

Morph, this is a little bit

11:31

different than some of the other cases

11:33

we've done. You know, I think about

11:36

in certain situations, a

11:38

child is known to have gotten off

11:41

of a bus, but

11:43

they never made it home. Okay,

11:45

that is a very short

11:48

window of time. Or,

11:50

you know, mom says to be

11:53

back at six o'clock. They've been gone

11:55

for, you know, a couple of hours

11:57

at the park. Okay, that's

11:59

a couple of our window, but

12:02

here we're talking about 8

12:05

a.m. until school

12:07

lets out. That's a very

12:09

big window. And, you know, like

12:12

you just said, a lot of

12:14

time went by before

12:17

everyone kind of sprang into action.

12:19

And I think as a parent, you want

12:22

to assume that once

12:24

your child's at school or they're

12:26

on the bus, that they're

12:28

in good hands and, you know,

12:30

nothing bad is going to happen to them. So this had to

12:32

be a little bit of a shock to say, okay, he

12:35

was in the school, I left him in

12:37

the school, but now he's

12:39

marked absent and they haven't seen him. So that had

12:41

to be come as a

12:43

shock. And McCain and Terry, very

12:45

nervous and upset over that. You know,

12:49

if this happens today at my

12:51

daughter's school, for example, I'll

12:54

get an alert saying she's not in one

12:56

of her classes and it comes instantly. So

12:58

you could react and try and figure

13:00

out what's going on a lot sooner than they were able

13:02

to do in this case. Yeah, technology,

13:04

man. I know we talk about it a

13:06

lot, but it really has changed

13:09

the way that we live in

13:12

so many different areas. At

13:15

around 8 p.m., police and school

13:17

officials began carefully combing school and

13:20

school grounds looking for Kyron by

13:22

11 p.m. Every inch

13:25

of skyline school had been searched from

13:27

top to bottom. The grounds,

13:29

each classroom and all crawl

13:31

spaces were checked. There was

13:33

no sign of Kyron at the same

13:35

time. Authorities also

13:38

thoroughly searched the Horman home, but

13:40

found no sign of Kyron there either. Volunteers

13:43

searched throughout the night in the

13:45

areas around the school property. On

13:47

Saturday, 300 students

13:50

and their parents were interviewed by

13:52

detectives, but nobody had any info

13:54

that was of use in the

13:56

investigation. And we just talked

13:58

about, you know, How much

14:01

time passed before it

14:03

was even realize that kyron and

14:06

shown up the class will

14:08

now we're basically looking at a

14:10

twelve hour window before.

14:13

The police and school officials

14:15

really started searching the

14:18

school and the long period of

14:20

time and we are talking

14:22

about a seven year old kid

14:24

here talking about a fifteen sixteen

14:26

year old who. Makes

14:29

the decision to skip class

14:31

and go down to the

14:33

river fish seven year old

14:35

gonna do that most seven

14:37

year old anyway. Yeah i think

14:39

that made it clear that this was

14:41

a very urgent situation due to his age. News

14:44

of carvins disappearance shock parents in the

14:46

area it was hard to believe in

14:49

very frightening that a child could make it safe

14:51

with school and then vanish once there. For

14:53

almost a week working theory was that

14:55

kyron must have wandered off into the woods

14:57

near the school gotten lost additional

15:00

search and rescue teams look for kyron who

15:02

had no code food or water. And

15:05

hope they would be able to bring him home safely searches

15:08

hell out i hope because the weather even

15:10

without a coat had been survivable sergeant

15:13

diana ulson. Multnomah county

15:15

sheriff's office search and rescue

15:17

operations coordinator told organ live

15:20

it's warm even at night if he

15:22

fell and injured himself the expectation

15:24

is he would still be alive.

15:27

And isn't it interesting how

15:30

the timing of a

15:32

disappearance changes things right

15:35

if kyron goes missing in

15:37

january with no coat. Well

15:40

then things are much different

15:42

because he's gonna be out in the elements

15:45

his chance of survival would

15:48

be far less than

15:50

it would be later on in

15:52

the year when the weather is warm. Probably

15:55

the other side of the coin if he went missing

15:57

say in late august early september.

16:00

It might be the other end very hot and

16:03

humid and that could also be bad for them

16:05

Some people in the public began

16:07

to suspect that Kyren's family may

16:09

know more than what they were

16:11

saying They hadn't spoken out

16:13

or made any kind of statement and many

16:16

people found that odd according to

16:18

Oregon live FBI spokeswoman

16:20

Beth Ann Steele had the

16:22

comment that the Hormund family

16:25

Was not speaking to the media

16:27

because they do not believe it's

16:29

in the best interest of finding

16:31

Kyren Shortly after this a

16:33

statement written by Kyren's family was

16:35

released thanking the community for

16:38

their support and asking people

16:40

to continue searching their properties

16:42

vehicles and Outbuildings

16:45

and I don't know what you make of that

16:47

more. I found it a little

16:49

strange Again, we

16:52

often talk about how you know

16:54

people or families React

16:56

differently not everyone is going

16:59

to handle the same situation

17:01

or a similar situation the

17:03

same way but to make

17:05

that Statement that

17:08

they didn't believe it was in the

17:10

best interest of finding Kyren

17:13

I found that a little odd I'll be honest with

17:15

you because I get that

17:17

everybody's not comfortable Talking

17:19

to the media, but wouldn't

17:22

you want to put it out there

17:24

make a plea not only? For

17:27

Kyren safe return in

17:30

case someone has him but

17:32

also for volunteers

17:35

You know you want as many

17:37

people on your side as you can get

17:39

so I did find it a little lot

17:42

Yeah, I do too. And you

17:44

know, I don't know what I do in that situation I Would

17:47

think I would talk to police

17:49

and consult with them and say what should

17:51

we do here? Should we do a press

17:53

conference or not? you know, so I don't

17:56

know if they talk with them at all and

17:58

decided that or if they just Ladd out said, you

18:00

know, we don't think it's in the best interest, but there

18:03

must have been some pushback or some

18:05

regret. And they decided to put out the statement

18:07

as a family. On June 11th,

18:10

Cairns family spoke for the

18:12

first time publicly at a

18:14

press conference. His stepfather, Tony

18:16

Young, spoke first on behalf

18:18

of everyone. Tony was used

18:21

to the subject matter because

18:23

he was a detective. But

18:25

you can still tell that

18:28

this hit too close to home. And

18:30

it was a very difficult task. He

18:32

addressed Kyron directly, assuring him, we're

18:34

doing everything we can to work

18:36

with law enforcement and the search

18:38

and rescue crews to make sure

18:40

that you can get back to

18:42

us as soon as possible. This

18:45

was meant to be something Kyron could

18:47

look back on and be inspired by

18:49

when he was back safe at

18:51

home, his whole community coming together

18:54

and working as a team to find

18:56

him. And it really seems that

18:58

this was the whole community. On

19:00

June 12th, the day after the

19:02

press conference, the Multnomah County

19:04

Sheriff's Office asked

19:07

the public to stop donating

19:09

food, water and other items

19:11

to volunteer searches due

19:13

to the sheer volume of supplies

19:16

received at that point. And

19:19

that is something else. I mean, you

19:21

think about how rare it is that

19:23

so many donations would come in that

19:25

you basically have to beg people to

19:27

stop because you're out of room and

19:31

you can't see consuming all the

19:33

supplies in the foreseeable future.

19:36

But it was evidence of just how

19:38

much the community wanted to help. You

19:40

would think normally you're constantly

19:42

asking for people's help. And

19:45

here you're saying, we got too much. Please

19:48

stop. And I think in cases like

19:50

this, you see people that are volunteering

19:52

to surprise printing

19:54

of flyers and other

19:57

people might have dogs that they're willing to give out

19:59

for sale. search is that it seems like a lot of

20:01

people really come out of the woodwork and try

20:03

and do what they can to help. And

20:05

my thought has always been, you know,

20:07

when you're talking about young children,

20:10

you know, we're talking about a seven year old here,

20:13

it increases the likelihood

20:15

that people are going to

20:17

want to help. Not that, you

20:20

know, a missing 16, 17 year old isn't very important. I

20:25

just think people, you know, would look

20:27

at a seven year old boy as

20:29

helpless. You know,

20:31

seven year olds by and large

20:34

can't take care of themselves. Shouldn't be anywhere

20:37

by themselves. So

20:39

I think a lot of people, parents

20:41

especially, would look at that and say, boy,

20:44

if I was in that spot, I

20:46

would want everyone to

20:49

come out to aid me. So, you

20:51

know, I'm going to do the same. Yeah, I

20:53

think you're exactly right. I have a seven year old

20:56

son myself and I couldn't imagine him being out wherever

20:58

just on his own and not

21:01

knowing what was going on. I'd want everyone out

21:03

there. I'd be trying to get the whole community

21:06

out there. So it is odd to see them

21:08

have to turn away help at some

21:10

point. And the other thing that

21:12

really hit me was, you know,

21:14

Tony Young, who was

21:16

a detective, you making this

21:19

address and it being

21:21

very hard for him. You know,

21:23

I'm sure as a detective, he had seen

21:25

a lot, he had done a lot, but

21:27

when it's your own family,

21:30

that makes it different. There's just no way

21:32

around it. Hey

21:34

folks, we want to introduce you to

21:37

the game June's Journey. If you haven't

21:39

played this, you don't know what you're

21:41

missing. It's so much fun for you.

21:44

Amateur sleuths. It really brings out the

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21:55

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22:00

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22:44

on iOS and Android. On

22:47

June 13th, it was announced that the search

22:49

for Kyron had turned into a criminal investigation.

22:52

It's not clear what exactly prompted the

22:54

shift into a criminal investigation, but

22:57

by the next day, divers searched the

22:59

waters off of Salvi Island. Nothing

23:01

was found. June 15th was the

23:03

final day of the school year for Skyline

23:05

Elementary. There was a vigil that

23:08

night at Sunset Presbyterian Church. On

23:10

June 18th, a new informational

23:12

fire was released by the Multnomah County

23:14

Sheriff's Office. Along with Kyron's

23:16

information, there was a picture of Terry as

23:19

well as a description of a truck similar

23:21

to Kane's. This seemed to shift

23:23

the perception of the case in the public eye. Tips

23:25

began to come in and multiple people claimed

23:28

to have seen Kyron leaving the school with

23:30

Terry the morning he vanished or

23:32

to have seen her truck in multiple different locations

23:34

at once. Though it was impossible for

23:36

her truck to have been in all those places at

23:38

the same time, all eyes seemed

23:40

to turn to Terry. Remember,

23:43

Terry was the last person claiming

23:45

to have seen Kyron when he was

23:48

supposedly racing her up the steps. And

23:50

then she claimed to have

23:52

seen him walking to his classroom. As

23:55

the last person known to have seen him and documented in

23:57

that final photo, she was the last person to have seen him. she

24:00

took of him, she became a person of

24:02

interest in the eyes of many people, as

24:05

well as the police. In many of

24:07

the cases we've seen in the past, some

24:09

step parents are resentful about

24:11

having to take care of someone else's

24:14

child and receiving no extra

24:16

thanks for doing so. Most

24:19

recently, Letitia Stock comes to

24:21

mind. We discussed the murder

24:23

of her stepchild, and in stock last

24:25

year, Letitia had googled things

24:27

as if she were talking

24:29

to a friend, airing out

24:32

her frustrations with parenting and

24:34

being overlooked while caring for someone

24:37

else's child. She grew more

24:39

and more angry with Gannon's father,

24:41

Al, until one day she took

24:43

it out on Gannon. Some people have

24:46

thought that if Terry had been

24:48

tired of what she found to be

24:50

a thankless job, she wouldn't have been

24:52

the first one. Letitia now had only

24:54

been married for five years, and

24:57

his job in the military kept him away

24:59

from home for long stretches at a time,

25:01

leaving Letitia to care for Gannon

25:04

and his younger sister alone. But

25:06

even in this comparison, this

25:08

situation with Terry is a bit

25:10

different, because according to many who

25:13

knew Terry, she seemed

25:15

to genuinely want to take care

25:18

of Kyra, even though he wasn't

25:20

her biological son. And

25:22

my thought morph is that

25:25

the Letitia case, the Gannon

25:28

Stock case, is the

25:30

exception. My parents divorced

25:33

when I was fairly young. I had

25:35

a stepmother, I had a stepfather. They

25:38

both took care of me

25:40

and treated me as if I

25:42

was their own. And I think,

25:44

by and large, that's the way

25:47

it plays out, but

25:49

obviously not in every case.

26:00

The science fair project on the red-eyed tree

26:02

frog was something Terry and Kyron had worked

26:04

on together. Carol Moulton, Terry's

26:06

mother, told Oregon Live of their

26:08

relationship. She's been with him since he

26:10

was an infant. She's as much of

26:12

a mom as the mom is because the parents

26:15

had separated about the time that Kyron was born.

26:18

Terry used to teach elementary school, but

26:20

after Kiera was born, she

26:22

dedicated all of her time to caring for her own

26:24

children, including Kyron instead. But

26:26

despite what Terry's mom said about her

26:28

daughter's relationship with Kyron, Kyron's

26:30

mom Desiree and her husband Tony painted

26:33

a very different picture of

26:35

the relationship between Terry and Kyron. According

26:38

to kgw.com, Desiree said,

26:40

I think it was very planned, and

26:43

she points to changes in Kyron's personality

26:45

shortly before he went missing. And

26:47

we talked in the beginning

26:50

more about Desiree. Desiree, she

26:52

was very ill and making

26:54

that decision to give up custody

26:56

of Kyron, that must have been

26:58

a very difficult one. But

27:01

as we said, she felt that

27:03

it would be in his best interest since

27:05

she was battling her

27:08

illness. But she did eventually

27:10

regain her health. And while

27:13

Desiree hadn't petitioned for full

27:15

custody of Kyron since regaining

27:17

her health, she did have

27:19

visitations every few weeks. Before

27:21

his disappearance, Kyron had stopped

27:23

wanting those visits to end.

27:26

And according to Desiree, he

27:28

wanted to stay with her. She told

27:30

KGW, Kyron became

27:32

increasingly unhappy about not

27:35

spending time with me. He wanted to

27:37

come and live with us. Several

27:39

times he would just break down and

27:42

just sob because he wanted to stay. According

27:45

to Desiree, after school on June

27:47

4th, the day he went missing, Terry

27:50

was supposed to drive Kyron to

27:52

Medford, Oregon for his scheduled visit

27:55

with Desiree. Some people have wondered

27:57

if Terry was responsible for Kyron's

27:59

death. disappearance, could

28:01

this scheduled visit have been

28:03

what made Terry act so

28:05

suddenly? Did she need to

28:08

prevent him from speaking with Desiree

28:10

for whatever reason? And

28:12

if he made it home from school that day, it

28:15

would have been too late. Desiree

28:17

told ktvl.com, I

28:19

believe that she did something that day. She

28:22

still hasn't revealed all of the true

28:24

things that happened on June 4th. For

28:27

her part, Terry pushed back

28:29

on Desiree's suspicions. She

28:31

told NewsNation now, I was

28:33

willing to talk about anything. I want

28:36

him home. Apparently, Terry

28:38

volunteered for two separate

28:40

polygraph examinations and

28:42

reportedly failed both. She

28:45

walked out of a third polygraph.

28:48

And we've discussed, you know,

28:50

lie detector tests, polygraph examinations

28:53

over and over. There is

28:55

a reason why they're not

28:57

admissible in most

29:00

courts, most jurisdictions, but

29:02

it doesn't stop police from

29:04

using them. I mean, they still

29:06

use them as a tool in many

29:08

places. So what do you

29:10

make of, you

29:12

know, Terry reportedly failing two

29:15

and walking out on a

29:17

third? I think it definitely

29:19

looks suspicious to some people because some people do

29:21

put a lot of stock in lie

29:23

detector tests. But you could

29:26

also look at it from Terry's perspective.

29:28

If she was involved, why

29:30

would she voluntarily take

29:32

a test knowing she could fail? And it

29:34

turns out she did, you know, unless she

29:36

thought she was somehow going to fool it. You

29:39

know, who knows? But, you know, you

29:41

could argue both sides of the polygraph

29:44

point. Yeah, you absolutely

29:46

could. You could make

29:49

the argument that someone who

29:51

knew they had done something

29:53

decides to take the polygraph

29:56

because they're hoping to

29:58

divert suspicion. and they

30:00

feel as though maybe they can trick

30:02

it. Or you

30:04

can make the point that a person

30:07

has nothing to hide, but they're

30:09

so nervous, and somehow

30:11

that causes them to fail the

30:13

polygram. One thing that both

30:16

Kyron's mom, Desiree, and his father, Kane,

30:18

both found suspicious, was that

30:20

Terry supposedly lied about the classroom she last

30:22

saw him near, but it turned out

30:24

there was a mixup about his classroom number, and

30:27

not necessarily that Terry lied about it. Despite

30:29

the suspicion that fell on Terry, other

30:32

people defended her, and to them

30:34

it seemed like Terry was very willingly involved in

30:36

Kyron's life, and to secretly resent

30:38

him enough to harm him and cover it up

30:40

didn't make sense. Terry is

30:42

a suspect because she is

30:45

supposedly the last person to see

30:47

Kyron, and because she has no

30:49

alibi for that morning. However,

30:51

she left the school right after the

30:53

first bell, and according to

30:55

her, Kyron was headed for

30:57

his classroom. She then took

30:59

baby Kyra to the Fred Meyer grocery

31:01

store on Embry Drive to

31:04

pick up medication for her ear

31:06

infection. This ear infection is

31:09

a suspicious part of the story to

31:11

many who wonder why a mother

31:13

wouldn't take their sick child to the doctor.

31:16

However, Kyra had been to the

31:18

doctor already, and they just

31:20

needed to pick up her prescription. That

31:22

Fred Meyer location apparently didn't

31:25

have the medication, so Terry drove to

31:27

one which had it in stock on

31:29

Walker Root. While shopping, she ran

31:31

into a friend from her gym. This

31:33

was between 9.30 and 10 a.m. After

31:37

picking up the medication, she went

31:39

to the dry cleaners in the same shopping center

31:41

and dropped off Kane's clothing. She

31:43

then went to Michael's for craft supplies and

31:46

drove a fussy care around the rural area.

31:49

By 11.40 a.m., she and Kyra

31:51

were at the 24 hour fitness she frequented. Terry

31:53

dropped Kyra off at the gym daycare and

31:55

got in a quick workout for picking her

31:58

back up and socializing with. staff

32:00

and her gym friends. By 12.40

32:02

pm, she was home. At 1.21

32:05

pm, Terri posted the photos she

32:07

took of Kyron that morning to her Facebook page.

32:10

Many people take this as a sign of her guilt,

32:12

thinking she must have posted the picture

32:14

first as an alibi and second

32:16

to make it look like she cared about Kyron. But

32:19

Terri uploaded multiple pictures at once, a

32:21

photo dump if you will, and

32:23

the science fair picture was just one of them. There

32:26

were many pictures of Kyron on her Facebook page.

32:28

So I think it's natural for people that

32:31

are close to somebody that goes missing

32:33

to be looked at. You know, we

32:35

know from the investigations that when there's

32:37

foul play, a missing person, someone's killed,

32:40

that kind of thing, police look at

32:42

those closest to them and work

32:44

out from there and rule

32:46

those people out if they can first.

32:49

And to me, it looks

32:51

like Terri really had a

32:54

normal day this day, and it's hard

32:56

for me to fathom that if she did

32:58

something to him somehow, that

33:01

she would just go to the craft store and

33:04

go to the gym and have a workout and

33:06

as if nothing sinister had happened

33:08

that day. It's kind of hard to picture that happening.

33:11

Now we know there are some people that have

33:13

done that. Maybe Scott Peterson, you

33:15

know, with Lacey Peterson sort of had a

33:18

checklist of things he did on the day she vanished

33:21

and was reportedly killed. So, you know,

33:24

it could be just trying to set this

33:26

alibi, but at the same time it's hard

33:28

to fathom somebody could just go on about their day

33:30

and have a nice workout and go shopping after

33:33

doing something to a little boy. Well,

33:35

and the other one that comes to mind is

33:37

Candy. Supposedly she went out

33:39

to lunch with friends, you know,

33:41

after hacking her neighbor to

33:43

death with an axe. So it seems

33:46

as though everybody's a little different, which

33:48

we know that to be

33:50

the case. But it's also natural to

33:52

take a look at the last person

33:55

known to have seen

33:57

the victim or the missing person. alive

34:00

that's absolutely normal and

34:03

the other thing that seems to be normal

34:06

is for people to kind

34:08

of pick that person's life

34:10

or day or actions

34:13

apart. What is the

34:15

posting of this photo me to

34:18

her facebook page like

34:20

you said many people see it as a sign

34:22

of guilt many people think

34:24

it was establishing an alibi

34:27

but what is it really me. Yeah had she

34:29

done that on a day when he didn't go missing it

34:31

would just be another person on facebook

34:33

posting pics of their kids.

34:36

Suspicious continue to hang over terry

34:38

and then there was a major

34:40

development that made her look even

34:43

worse in the eyes of many

34:45

on june twenty six. Less

34:47

than three weeks after kyron vanished

34:50

police recall to the hormon home

34:52

twice at five seventeen p.m.

34:55

Officers responded to a nine one

34:57

one call regarding a threat terry

35:00

called the police after her landscaper

35:03

and what turned out to be

35:05

an undercover officer approached her. The

35:07

landscaper demanded ten thousand dollars as

35:10

payment for his silence threatening to

35:12

tell authorities that she had tried

35:14

to hire him to kill her

35:17

husband king she ordered them

35:19

to leave and immediately called nine one

35:21

one. This conversation was recorded

35:24

by a wire the landscaper

35:26

was wearing later that

35:28

night at eleven thirty nine a second

35:30

nine one one call was placed terry

35:33

was frantic. Can had left the

35:35

home with care who is now

35:37

just nineteen months old the reason

35:39

he left was because earlier that day

35:42

detectives had informed kane. Of

35:45

an attempt by terry to hire

35:47

a hit man to kill according

35:50

to police terry had tried

35:52

to hire the landscaper to

35:54

kill kane less than a

35:56

year before kyran's disappearance like

35:59

most people would probably. do if you

36:01

found out that your spouse wanted you

36:03

dead, Cain feared for his life and

36:06

with his son Kyron missing, he

36:08

also feared for Kira's life and

36:10

wanted to get himself and her out

36:13

of danger. And this is

36:15

such a strange part of this case for

36:17

me, Morph, because you know

36:19

you have this landscaper who obviously

36:21

went to the police because at

36:23

some point they sent an undercover

36:25

officer out to

36:27

approach Terry with

36:29

the landscaper. You have

36:32

this recorded conversation and

36:34

it rose to the level where police

36:36

actually told Cain that

36:39

Terry tried to hire a hitman, but

36:41

then it was like nothing else happened

36:43

after it. She wasn't charged.

36:46

There's really just not much else

36:48

out there about it. Yeah,

36:50

we just mentioned this was a major development because

36:52

it it was ultimately caused

36:55

Cain to leave her out

36:58

of fear for his safety and

37:02

you can't blame him, but at the

37:04

same time if there was something to this, why

37:07

was she never charged with this? So this is sort

37:09

of a sticking

37:11

point, a question mark that's still sort

37:14

of hanging out there in this case. And

37:17

my only thought is that they

37:19

just didn't feel as though they

37:22

had enough evidence. Like

37:24

just the word of this landscaper

37:26

wasn't going to be enough maybe

37:28

to actually charge her

37:30

and secure a conviction because

37:32

other than that I don't know what else

37:35

would have been the reason. And I also

37:37

find it odd that Terry didn't

37:40

talk with him about it, no one up

37:42

to it or anything. She instead called 911.

37:44

So almost as if she

37:46

was saying, hey there's a crazy guy here talking

37:49

about me trying to hire a hitman, I'm calling the

37:51

police. So you know you could

37:53

maybe make an argument that she was

37:55

taken aback by this and you know

37:58

felt she was in danger and called the

38:00

police. Well, you can also make

38:02

an argument that this landscaper was

38:05

trying to extort her for money. I mean, there

38:07

are a lot of arguments that can be made.

38:10

A joint statement from Kyron's parents, Kane

38:12

and Desiree, and Desiree's husband,

38:14

Tony, was released on June 28th, claiming

38:17

that they were cooperating with the police investigation.

38:20

Terry's name wasn't included in the statement. Shortly

38:23

after, news broke that Terry had been served

38:25

with a restraining order and a petition

38:27

for divorce by Kane. Terry

38:29

soon retained Stephen Howes, a prominent

38:31

criminal defense attorney in Portland. Soon

38:34

after this, Terry began to send

38:36

flirtatious and sexual messages to Michael

38:38

Cook, one of Kane's friends from high

38:41

school. The contacts of these messages

38:43

were later released in court. Kane

38:45

claimed that contacting his friend Michael Cook violated

38:48

the restraining order he had against her. The

38:51

messages didn't help her look innocent to the

38:53

public, who felt that sex would be

38:55

the last thing on her mind if she were

38:57

truly worried about Kyron being missing and her

38:59

marriage collapsing. In mid-July, Terry

39:01

moved out of the Horman home and

39:03

into a property owned by her parents

39:06

in Roseburg, Oregon. And

39:08

here's something that I see in a lot

39:10

of cases. When

39:12

it comes to the public and the

39:14

public's opinion as to whether

39:17

someone had a role in a

39:20

disappearance or a murder, pretty

39:23

much everything that person does

39:26

can be made to look suspicious.

39:29

Now, again, you break some of

39:31

this stuff down and it does

39:33

look suspicious, but in

39:36

some cases, people can make it that

39:38

way even when it doesn't look like

39:40

it. The flirtatious

39:43

sexual messages, thinking

39:45

about sex as

39:48

your marriage is collapsing, aren't alone

39:50

during this point where Kyron is

39:53

missing. Okay. Can you

39:55

see why people would look at that and say,

39:57

what are you doing? hiring

40:01

of a hit man. My

40:03

thought is always that if

40:05

you're in the public's crosshairs,

40:08

wouldn't you go out of your way to

40:10

not only not bring

40:12

attention to yourself but not do

40:15

anything that would make

40:17

you in people's eyes further

40:20

look guilty? That seems like

40:22

a lot of these things that she did definitely

40:24

made her look guilty to a lot of people.

40:28

Some people became suspicious of

40:30

Terry's friend, a woman

40:32

named Dee Dee Spicer. Authority

40:35

searched her home into a Latin and

40:37

interviewed those who knew her about her

40:39

whereabouts on June 4th, the day

40:42

Kyron vanished. They learned that Dee

40:44

Dee had been unaccounted for from

40:46

around 1130 a.m. on June 4th until 1 p.m. She had

40:48

been doing

40:52

landscaping work for a property in

40:54

northwest Portland and the homeowner invited

40:57

her to have lunch. She

40:59

didn't show up and when they called her cell

41:01

phone she didn't answer. In

41:03

August, authorities searched an area near the 2.2

41:07

mile northwest Old Germantown

41:09

Road Loop close to

41:11

the home Dee Dee was working at on

41:13

June 4th. The property was almost 40

41:16

acres and Dee Dee claims to

41:18

have left her phone in her car at

41:20

the other end of the yard while

41:22

working so she wasn't available to answer

41:25

the call. Since she was alone

41:27

on the property, the reports that

41:29

she left abruptly or disappeared

41:32

aren't exactly true but you

41:34

can't prove that they're false either. Bruce

41:37

McCain, a retired captain with

41:39

the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office

41:41

told ABC News that

41:43

irony here is that

41:45

no one is able to corroborate

41:48

her story. Dee Dee insisted

41:50

that she had nothing to do with Kyron's

41:52

disappearance but that investigators were trying to use

41:54

her to get to Terry. She told

41:56

ABC News they wanted me to tell

41:58

them that Terry did it or that that Terry knew

42:00

something. Dee Dee, who believed Terry

42:02

was innocent, cooperated with the

42:04

investigation, but didn't have any

42:06

relevant information. In that same ABC

42:09

News interview, she said, "'I told

42:11

them everything that I knew over and over again,

42:13

"'but I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.'" Captain

42:16

McCain explained that Dee Dee's behavior

42:18

was suspicious. Before she had to

42:20

testify before a grand jury, she hired

42:22

a lawyer. McCain told ABC News,

42:25

"'She said she's fully cooperating, "'but there's

42:28

mixed signals here. "'She's the only

42:30

witness that we know of that's lawyered up.'" Adding,

42:33

"'For someone that's got nothing to

42:35

hide "'and is fully cooperative, that's

42:37

a strange way to show it.'" And

42:40

I know that police

42:42

detectives, investigators often have

42:44

that opinion. But

42:46

I don't know if that's one that I

42:48

share. To me, and I

42:51

think I've said it before, but the

42:53

hiring of an attorney sometimes

42:55

is just a good idea and

42:59

it doesn't necessarily mean that

43:01

someone's guilty or has something to

43:04

hide. And that might be especially true if

43:06

you get the vibe that the

43:08

police think you're involved in some

43:10

manner and you're not just a witness to

43:13

a car accident or something. They're talking

43:15

to you about a serious crime and

43:18

a missing child, and

43:20

if you get the vibe that you think you

43:22

had something to do with it, then maybe

43:25

it's smart to hire an attorney.

43:28

Despite the suspicion of the public

43:30

and detectives, Dee Dee still felt

43:32

that Terry had no involvement in

43:35

Kyron's disappearance. She detailed the

43:37

ABC News, in all of these years,

43:39

as her friend, I'm not

43:42

seeing anything that would lead me to

43:44

believe that she's capable or motivated in

43:46

any way to do something like this.

43:48

She tried to make it clear that

43:51

she wasn't supporting Terry because

43:53

they were co-conspirators. It

43:56

was because she wanted to help a friend in a very hard

43:58

time. Her actions

44:00

were all because she believed in

44:03

Terry's innocence, not because she

44:05

had knowledge of her guilt. She said

44:07

to ABC News, there's this horror

44:09

that my friend is going through. If

44:12

I thought for a second that she was capable

44:14

of foul play, I would not have

44:16

been there. She would not have been my

44:18

friend in the first place. According

44:20

to Oregon Live, other people

44:23

besides Kyren's family and

44:25

those that suspected Terry felt the

44:27

same as Didi. The Shangri-La

44:29

Corporation, a nonprofit Terry worked

44:31

for after Kyren's disappearance, but

44:34

left due to the public

44:36

scrutiny she calls them, said

44:38

that Terry showed compassion to

44:40

people with special needs. So

44:43

let's talk about Didi for

44:46

a little bit. Obviously

44:49

she caught the attention of

44:52

the authorities. They not

44:54

only interviewed her, they searched

44:56

her home. We don't have

44:58

all the details, but you

45:01

have this period

45:03

of time where her

45:05

whereabouts are unaccounted for.

45:08

To be honest with you, I don't know what that

45:10

means. She doesn't show up

45:12

for this lunch. That's one

45:15

thing. She's working alone. Again,

45:17

it's hard to say what that means. She's

45:22

landscaping. I

45:24

think you see this in some cases where

45:27

you don't have an alibi, but there's

45:29

no way for you to have an alibi.

45:32

If you really, truly were by

45:35

yourself and there's no way

45:37

to really prove your location

45:39

or how long you were there,

45:42

what do you do? It really seems like

45:45

she was suspected because she was friends with Terry

45:47

and because she had this little bit of missing

45:49

time that day. That seems to be

45:52

really the case against her. They didn't find anything

45:54

when they did these searches. If

45:56

you look at her time that day compared

45:59

to... Terry has

46:01

this checklist of various things she

46:03

did that day and has a timeline and

46:06

where Dee Dee here is working

46:09

and misses this one little spot

46:11

during the day. You could argue

46:13

that maybe she was just wrapped up in her work

46:16

and wanted to get it done, whatever, and was

46:18

away from her phone and couldn't answer, but that's come

46:20

under a lot of suspicion. But I

46:23

come back to why would she be

46:25

involved in this? It's the

46:27

benefit to her to go along with

46:29

a crime like this and help cover it up. That's

46:32

one thing I don't think has been put

46:34

out there by a lot of people that talk

46:36

about this case. It seems like there's

46:39

no benefit unless something behind

46:41

the scenes, you could say maybe there was

46:43

a secret payment, but there would have

46:45

to be some motive because I don't think most

46:47

friends are going to... When

46:49

a friend comes to them and says, hey, something

46:51

happened, help me get rid of this boy's

46:54

body, or a step further being

46:57

involved beforehand, I

46:59

just don't see any scenario where

47:02

most friends are going to cooperate and be part of that.

47:05

But as we know, sometimes crazy

47:07

things do happen and there's not

47:10

that waste of reason that says, hey, this isn't a

47:12

good idea. Well, at the very

47:14

least, more if it seems to me that

47:17

the case against Dee Dee is very

47:19

thin. They just didn't have

47:21

anything. And obviously she was

47:23

never charged or anything like that. On

47:26

September 9th, Kyron's eighth birthday passed with

47:28

no signs of him and no clues.

47:31

The investigation, the largest and most

47:33

expensive search in Oregon's history, had

47:35

cost over a million dollars by then. And

47:38

with no leads, a small task force

47:40

was created to free up other detectives to

47:42

work on different cases. According

47:44

to Oregon Live, in October, when Terry

47:47

petitioned for visitation with her daughter, mine

47:50

was upset, saying Terry was an

47:52

emotionally disturbed individual focused on

47:54

her own needs rather than the needs

47:56

of care. Or am I missing Kyron?

47:59

By November, I was not. She had withdrawn her petition

48:01

to visit with Cara. Media stopped

48:03

reporting on the custody case, but

48:05

by the time Cara was four, Terri

48:07

was still not allowed to have any contact with her.

48:10

In June 2011, the task

48:12

force working Kyron's case disbanded

48:15

and a single detective continued to

48:17

investigate Kyron's disappearance. Terri

48:20

petitioned for a name change to

48:22

drop Horman as her last name,

48:24

but due to the ongoing criminal

48:26

investigation, it was denied. During

48:29

these hearings, she spoke about Kyron in

48:31

court for the first time in years.

48:33

She told the judge, he needs to

48:35

be found. I love my son. I

48:38

want him home more than anything. In

48:41

2012, Desiree Young filed

48:43

a civil lawsuit against Terri, claiming

48:46

that she had kidnapped Kyron. She

48:49

saw not only $10 million

48:51

in damages, but also

48:53

either the location of Kyron or

48:55

his safe return. She

48:57

ended up dropping the lawsuit, but

48:59

not her suspicions. By December 2013,

49:01

it became official. Terri

49:05

Moulton and Kane Horman were

49:07

divorced. Despite no

49:09

charges being filed against Terri for

49:12

anything regarding Kyron's case, she

49:14

has gotten into other trouble. In

49:16

August 2015, Terri's roommate

49:18

in Yuba County, California, reported

49:21

that his gun had been stolen from his safe. He

49:23

accused Terri of the theft. When officers

49:26

found her, she did have his gun with her.

49:28

She was arrested and charged with a misdemeanor.

49:31

In November, she was a no-show for arraignment on

49:33

that gun theft charge, bringing her

49:35

another charge for failure to appear. A

49:38

bench warrant was ordered for arrest. On

49:41

July 3, 2016, she was

49:43

pulled over in Sacramento for speeding. Once

49:45

her identity was checked, the warrant was

49:47

flagged and she was arrested. Things

49:49

didn't get any better for Terri because in

49:52

early December 2016, she was arrested after

49:55

her partner, Joseph Christable, accused

49:58

her of domestic violence. violence.

50:00

According to Cristobal, Terry

50:02

threatened him and his family as she put

50:05

a knife up to his face. After

50:07

this arrest, he filed a restraining

50:10

order against Terry. Cristobal

50:12

told KGW News, I

50:15

don't even know what she's capable

50:17

of. She was arrested yet

50:19

again on December 24th, 2016,

50:23

after allegedly taking a car without

50:25

the owner's permission. The Marin

50:27

County District Attorney's Office dropped

50:29

the charges after they decided

50:32

the case was not strong enough to

50:34

take to trial. All of

50:36

these brushes with the law for Terry

50:38

only fueled the suspicions

50:41

of Kyron's mom, Desiree.

50:43

She told KTVL, everything

50:45

that's been happening is just what

50:47

we already know about her true

50:50

nature and that she's a

50:52

criminal. In June 2017, Terry was found not

50:56

guilty of grand theft of

50:58

a firearm related to her roommate's accusation

51:00

in 2015. In March 2018,

51:05

Terry remarried to a man

51:08

named Jose de Jesus Vasquez

51:10

Martinez. Today, Terry is still

51:12

a person of interest in the eyes

51:14

of police and in

51:16

the eyes of Kyron's family. And

51:19

I would add, in the eyes of

51:21

many people in the public as well.

51:24

So it seems to me more that,

51:26

you know, her life has not gone

51:29

maybe all that well in

51:31

the wake of Kyron's

51:34

disappearance. She was married to Cain.

51:36

She was a stay at home

51:38

mom. She was able to go work out.

51:40

It seems like, you know, she had a

51:42

pretty good life. Again, we don't

51:44

know the details of

51:47

the relationship. Nobody really does

51:49

on the outside, but it

51:51

really does seem that after

51:55

Kyron's disappearance, things

51:57

began to spiral. to

52:01

the point where, you know, Kane took

52:03

out a restraining order. You've

52:05

got these sexualized messages

52:07

to one of his friends.

52:11

And then, you know, she's

52:13

with a number of guys after

52:15

that, one of

52:17

which takes out a restraining order against her.

52:20

There was just a lot going on. Now,

52:23

some people would say where there's smoke,

52:25

there's fire. But I don't know,

52:27

you know, if that's true

52:29

here or not. Yeah, it

52:32

definitely seems that in the time since

52:34

Kyra went missing, things have definitely gone

52:36

downhill for her. But in the

52:38

time before he went missing, she

52:40

had been a substitute teacher. She was

52:42

a mom that, by

52:44

all accounts, took care of the kids. As

52:47

far as we can tell, she had no criminal record. Now,

52:50

of course, there is this whole

52:52

landscapers accusation that we can't

52:54

really get to the bottom of. That

52:56

supposedly happened where

52:59

she allegedly offered to

53:01

hire him to knock off Kane.

53:04

That supposedly happened before Kyra went missing. So

53:06

that could show a pattern if it's proven

53:09

to be true that she did have some

53:11

sinister aspects to her going

53:14

back before Kyra went missing. The

53:16

one thing I will say is that there is

53:19

a lot of mystery around this woman. I will

53:21

say that. So I

53:23

think we have to ask how strong is the potential case

53:25

against Terry? Are there

53:27

things for or against her being involved? I think

53:30

we should go back to the day Kyra vanished and

53:32

look closely at the timeline. It was

53:34

well-documented and witnessed by several people that Kyra did

53:36

arrive at school that day and

53:39

was in and around the science fair. This

53:41

was all before 9 a.m. Kyra

53:43

wasn't marked absent until around 10 a.m.

53:46

And this was after his class had gotten back from visiting

53:48

the exhibits. But according

53:50

to witnesses, those being Kyra

53:52

and schoolmates, Terry wasn't the last person

53:55

to see Kyra in that day because his

53:57

fellow students reported seeing him, talking to

53:59

people. after Terry left. According

54:02

to these eyewitness accounts, multiple

54:04

students saw him around 9 a.m. and

54:06

after, so he couldn't have disappeared before

54:08

9 a.m. It had to be

54:10

between 9 and 10. While witnesses did

54:13

say they saw both Terry and Kyron

54:15

together, and they also saw Kane's truck

54:17

at the school, could any of these

54:19

witnesses have remembered seeing Kyron and Terry at the times

54:21

they thought they saw them, but got their

54:23

days mixed up, because Terry had taken

54:25

him to school both Thursday and Friday. The

54:28

photo Terry took of Kyron that Friday included

54:30

a schoolmate of his who was edited out

54:32

of public releases of that photo. The student

54:35

confirmed that the photo was taken Friday,

54:38

so there's no doubt at all that Terry

54:40

brought Kyron to school on Friday and arrived

54:42

there. What may still be up for

54:44

debate was whether people saw Kyron after he made it

54:46

to school on Friday, and Terry left

54:48

like she claimed, or could they

54:50

be mixing up seeing him in class after she

54:53

left him the day before on Thursday. Either

54:55

way, the photo taken of Kyron

54:57

Friday alongside this fellow student stands

55:00

as the last confirmed sighting of Kyron.

55:02

Whatever happened after the photo was taken remains

55:05

a mystery. I also think

55:07

it's important to look at what was

55:09

happening overall. At Skyline,

55:11

the day Kyron vanished.

55:14

It was a very busy day, and none

55:16

of the school was locked down. Nor

55:19

Shriver, a parent and volunteer

55:21

at Skyline School, told Oregon

55:23

Live, on a normal day, seeing

55:26

a stranger will make you go, hmm, I

55:29

wonder who that is. On such

55:31

a hectic day as Friday, there

55:34

was such a lot going on. To

55:36

tell you the truth, I was focused

55:38

on looking at the science project and

55:40

helping my son fill out his evaluation

55:43

form, and not on

55:45

the faces around me. The

55:47

children toured the science fair

55:49

with volunteer chaperones, making it

55:51

even easier for a child

55:54

to disappear, or to

55:56

mistake a stranger as a volunteer. There

55:58

is a photo of Kyron's class

56:00

on Terry's Facebook page. But

56:03

Kyren is not in it. The

56:05

caption joked about his habit of

56:07

leaving the class without telling anyone

56:09

and ending up in the bathroom

56:11

for long periods of time. This

56:14

suggests that slipping out of class

56:16

silently was a habit of Kyren's, possibly

56:19

something that would have been addressed

56:21

at that upcoming doctor's visit. It's

56:24

important to note that one of the

56:26

last people claiming to actually see Kyren

56:28

while touring the science fair saw

56:31

him near one of those

56:33

unlocked and unmonitored exits that

56:35

was close to the nearby woods. There

56:38

are a few possibilities here. It

56:40

was a hectic day, people were coming and

56:42

going, and more adults than usual

56:44

were at the school the day Kyren vanished.

56:47

Can we be certain that Kyren didn't

56:49

wander outside and get lost or that

56:51

the wrong person didn't catch his attention and

56:53

lure him outside? Whatever happened

56:55

that day to Kyren Horman, to this

56:57

day remains a mystery, but most of

56:59

the suspicion continues to fall on his stepmother,

57:01

Terry. And I do think

57:04

that this science fair is

57:06

big in this case because

57:08

you think about a normal day

57:11

in an elementary school. There's

57:13

the teachers, the students,

57:16

probably not a lot of parents,

57:19

not a lot of other

57:21

adults. But here it sounds like

57:24

everybody was welcome and

57:27

none of the doors were locked. It

57:29

does open up a number

57:32

of possibilities. You've got

57:34

a bunch of people shuffling around and coming

57:37

and going, you're not really

57:39

going to ask questions about who they are because

57:41

you're just expecting they're there as part of this

57:44

event that's going on. So it certainly

57:46

opens up the possibility that a dangerous

57:49

person could slip in and maybe

57:51

slip out with a child and maybe

57:53

the things surrounding

57:55

terror are sort of just a

57:57

red herring and something else happened to Kyren. The

58:01

protocols at all Portland

58:03

public schools changed after

58:06

Chiron's disappearance. To start,

58:08

the side doors of the school

58:11

were all locked during school hours,

58:13

requiring anyone that entered the building

58:15

to use the main office entrance

58:17

that was monitored by staff. All

58:20

visitors would be required to sign in

58:23

and receive a color-coded pass,

58:25

green for volunteers who had

58:27

passed background checks and

58:29

yellow for any other visitor. Attendance

58:32

would be taken twice each day, first

58:35

in the morning and then a second

58:37

time after lunch. Surveillance cameras

58:39

were installed inside and outside

58:42

all elementary schools. As

58:44

high schools were rebuilt or

58:46

refurbished, they also received

58:48

cameras. For kindergarten through

58:51

fifth grade, a 1030 a.m.

58:53

call would go out to

58:55

parents of absent students, warning

58:57

them that their child was absent. A

59:00

lot of schools across the country have

59:02

adopted many of these security measures,

59:04

especially in the wake of school

59:06

shootings and if these measures were

59:08

in place when Chiron vanished. The

59:11

mystery may be solved by now, or

59:14

perhaps even Chiron might not have vanished

59:16

in the first place. Of

59:18

these new security tools, Horman

59:21

told KGW news. I think they've

59:23

made some big adjustments and

59:25

it was a safe school before and

59:27

now it's probably going to be one of

59:29

the safest schools in the state. And

59:32

I absolutely remember

59:35

my kids being in elementary

59:37

school and that was probably

59:39

around this same time. It

59:42

was a very locked down

59:44

situation. You couldn't even

59:46

enter the building unless you

59:48

were buzzed in. And then that

59:50

even only lets you

59:52

into the kind of

59:54

office area. There was

59:57

another locked door that you

59:59

had to be built. buzzed into to

1:00:02

actually get inside the school. And

1:00:04

I think different school systems in

1:00:06

different states probably upgraded their

1:00:09

security measures at different

1:00:11

intervals. So they probably weren't all universal,

1:00:13

but you know, today,

1:00:15

it seems like just about

1:00:17

every school has these serious safety

1:00:19

protocols in place, which is obviously

1:00:21

a good thing, but even

1:00:23

outside of the school, you know, it

1:00:25

seems like today, every person has

1:00:28

a ring door camera. Every street

1:00:31

light has some kind of camera in it. So

1:00:34

if those things were in place back then as

1:00:36

well, people coming and going into

1:00:38

the parking lot, Terry's vehicle,

1:00:41

all of those things could have been probably caught

1:00:43

on camera and additional clues could have been

1:00:46

gathered. Yeah, absolutely. Although

1:00:48

Terry is someone close to Kyron that's

1:00:50

suspected in his disappearance. She's not

1:00:52

the only person in the family that has been put

1:00:54

forward as a suspect. In June, 2010, 32

1:00:58

year old Christian Scott Horman, Kyron's

1:01:01

paternal uncle was convicted of third

1:01:03

degree child law station in

1:01:05

Snohomish County. Immediately, some people

1:01:07

wondered whether he could have been involved

1:01:09

in Kyron's disappearance, but according to

1:01:11

the Horman family's attorney, Donna Johnston,

1:01:14

he was in Seattle on June 4th, 2010. It's

1:01:17

not clear if this alibi was verified by

1:01:19

investigators in Kyron's case. Kyron

1:01:22

Horman would have graduated high school

1:01:24

and by now he

1:01:26

could have been in his last year of

1:01:28

college. There's still a $50,000 reward

1:01:32

for information that leads to the

1:01:34

resolution of the case, you

1:01:36

can call in tips to the

1:01:38

Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, non-emergency line

1:01:40

at 503-823-3333, or you can contact

1:01:42

the National Center

1:01:49

for Missing and Exploited Children Tip

1:01:51

Line at 1-800-THE-LOST. So

1:01:55

more of it as we wrap up this case,

1:01:57

it continues to be one that.

1:02:00

that grabs people's attention.

1:02:03

I mean, you still see people

1:02:05

online talking about this

1:02:07

case, going back and forth about

1:02:10

Terry and her

1:02:12

possible involvement. And

1:02:14

I don't know if that's going

1:02:17

to end until there's

1:02:19

a resolution. You know, with

1:02:21

her being the last person kind

1:02:23

of thought to have been

1:02:25

with Kyron, there's some

1:02:27

debate there. But obviously,

1:02:29

that does make a

1:02:31

lot of people suspicious. And

1:02:34

then you have kind

1:02:36

of what transpired over the years

1:02:39

in her life, the downward spiral,

1:02:42

the whole alleged hitman,

1:02:45

landscaper thing. You

1:02:47

can see why there are a lot

1:02:50

of people who think that she

1:02:52

was possibly involved. Yeah,

1:02:55

we mentioned it earlier that police

1:02:57

always look at people that are closest

1:03:00

to a missing person because most

1:03:02

often they're the ones that ultimately

1:03:04

are responsible for what happened. But in

1:03:07

this case, as far as we know, unless the police

1:03:09

are holding something back, there's no solid

1:03:11

evidence linking Terry to

1:03:13

this case. And if there is

1:03:16

resolution in this case and it turns out

1:03:18

that Terry had no involvement, does

1:03:20

she get that time back in all

1:03:22

the things that have happened in that

1:03:25

downward spiral since Kyron went missing? That

1:03:27

would be really

1:03:29

tough for her. Well, that's

1:03:31

the thing, right? You don't get that

1:03:33

back. So she's

1:03:36

been walking around all these years with

1:03:39

this cloud of suspicion hanging

1:03:42

over her. If she had

1:03:44

some involvement, then it was

1:03:46

well deserved. But like you said,

1:03:49

if she didn't, then that's tough

1:03:52

because there's no doubt this

1:03:55

event changed the course

1:03:57

of her life. Now, it also

1:03:59

changed. the course of a

1:04:02

lot of people's lives and Kyren's

1:04:04

family. Let's not forget that. But

1:04:06

you know this is one that

1:04:08

I know so many

1:04:10

people want resolution on.

1:04:12

They want to know what

1:04:15

really happened. And I'll say this

1:04:17

if she did have some

1:04:19

involvement to this point she's gotten away

1:04:21

with the perfect crime it seems

1:04:24

because despite all those witnesses all

1:04:26

the people that were there that day that

1:04:29

could have seen her walking out

1:04:31

with him if she walked out with him.

1:04:35

She took a chance if she was involved

1:04:37

with all of that and the fact none

1:04:39

of that happened you know I think it

1:04:42

opens up the possibility that maybe she

1:04:44

wasn't involved. As far as we

1:04:46

know publicly there's no evidence that ties her to

1:04:48

his going missing. Yeah

1:04:50

the police could have some that

1:04:53

they haven't disclosed. The one

1:04:55

thing that we do know is it is

1:04:57

not enough evidence in their eyes if

1:04:59

they have any to bring

1:05:01

charges right to take her to

1:05:04

trial. So let's talk

1:05:06

about the most likely options if

1:05:08

Terry was not involved. And

1:05:10

really for me there's kind of two

1:05:12

that stand out. You know

1:05:15

could Kyren have walked

1:05:17

out of one of those unlocked

1:05:19

doors and headed out

1:05:21

into the woods and

1:05:23

then ultimately died. My

1:05:26

thought there is that you would

1:05:28

think with the amount of searching that was done.

1:05:31

Now how far could a seven-year-old get

1:05:33

on his own? You would think

1:05:36

that they would have found

1:05:38

something during those searches. So

1:05:40

then you go to what I

1:05:43

believe is probably the second

1:05:45

most likely scenario again

1:05:47

if Terry is not involved which is

1:05:50

someone who was at the school that

1:05:52

day was able to

1:05:55

take Kyren during

1:05:57

the hectic period. of

1:06:00

time that was caused by this science

1:06:02

fair. Yeah, and it could have been

1:06:04

a predator that snuck in there and told

1:06:06

Kyron, you know, I need help carrying in my

1:06:08

son's science experiment. Can you give me

1:06:11

a hand? Or maybe I just talked

1:06:13

to your mom in the parking lot and she told

1:06:15

me to come out. She has something else for you

1:06:17

and then could have been lured out. And that's the

1:06:19

thing. We just don't have any real strong

1:06:21

alternate suspects to look at. So all

1:06:24

this attention has really gone to Terry.

1:06:27

But that's why it is

1:06:29

and will remain a very

1:06:32

mysterious case until there is some type

1:06:34

of resolution. That's

1:06:36

it for our episode on Kyron

1:06:39

Horman. If you love the

1:06:41

show but haven't done so yet, take a

1:06:43

minute, go out, leave us a five star

1:06:45

rating. You can also leave a review. But

1:06:48

continue to tell your friends about

1:06:50

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1:06:55

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1:06:57

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1:07:00

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1:07:05

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1:07:07

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1:07:10

So that's it for another episode of Criminology.

1:07:12

But Morf and I will be back with

1:07:15

all of you next Saturday night

1:07:17

with a brand new episode. So until then,

1:07:19

for Mike and Morf, we'll

1:07:21

talk to you next week. Take care, everyone. Bye.