0:03

My name is Eddie. And.

0:07

I wasn't a call.

0:09

Planet Earth about to

0:11

be recycled. Your only

0:14

chance to survive or

0:16

evacuate is to to

0:18

leave witness. As an

0:20

effort by charismatic pets are developing society

0:22

that it ended place with the tragic

0:24

deaths of more than nine hundred a.

0:26

Bad Please God think that's going on

0:28

with the we Live We believe there's

0:30

no other people lived in love. That

0:32

we've had this much of the toilet you're going to

0:35

get that's just be done with that led to be

0:37

done with the and any other. Two

0:40

died they didn't as dumb destructive

0:42

to has died paper they they.

0:44

Did the problem arises? You're

0:50

in a cold. I love. You and I

0:52

want you out of it and with Christ.

0:54

But you're You're You're. Right?

1:02

Welcome back Lesion German to Part three:

1:04

Looking at the World Islam Money. Share

1:06

my Roberts I'm one of the cohosts

1:08

here or here along with Andrew. Things

1:11

for joins for Part three: You'd.

1:13

Absolutely let's do this man I'm excited! Awesome

1:15

and James thanks you for join us again

1:18

I'm from Seattle your you you are you

1:20

been taken us through a very what you

1:22

call a the one of the different history

1:24

podcast what you call like really popular ones

1:26

are to the called. Dan

1:28

Carlin or or History. Usually hardcore history is

1:31

like a hardcore history of like very quick

1:33

hardcore history. lots of conquests, battles striving for

1:35

power. I we talk about the crusades in

1:37

part to but you enter party with a

1:39

little bit of a cliff hanger. I don't

1:42

even know the cliffhanger as I figure there's

1:44

a good way to wrap it up. Where

1:47

it? where does a to everyone's to wait And

1:49

what's the cliffhanger all about? What's the next step

1:51

in this whole process of the of all bent

1:54

that the journey that Islam has been into? Weird

1:56

it's today. Yeah. So.

1:59

The muzzle world has been in

2:01

a status you know, internal decline

2:03

for some time in that has

2:05

been you decentralizing to the sort.

2:08

Points. Of can Light Local powers

2:10

under. Sultan's. Right on. The

2:12

Crusaders would have had a very,

2:14

very hard time making a dent

2:16

in a Muslim world that. I

2:19

was in a unified powerful say like

2:21

the episodes or the in the odds

2:23

when that. It they go in.

2:25

The reason that the Crusaders could make

2:28

that is because. The

2:30

Muslim world itself was fracked. It was

2:32

cove and fractured into the sort of.

2:35

Sultan. It's basically an Orc.

2:37

Some of the are in

2:39

power and demand so had

2:41

dean. Was. One

2:43

of those on.

2:46

Sir. As this a centralized power

2:48

is. Declining. On.

2:51

A new power is rising in the

2:53

east. Which. Is the Mongols.

2:56

And so. The

2:58

Mongols. Ah, you're taking over.

3:01

Yeah, China. They're pushing east

3:03

and and. And. They're

3:05

facing west and as they push

3:07

west they start to come into

3:10

the Muslim territories and then moving

3:12

very quickly. They kill a lot

3:14

of people on. Here the

3:16

strength of the Mongol conquest is these. Horse

3:20

archers is very accurate and they

3:22

can you know move quickly, Attack

3:24

quickly, Retreat quickly. Very very difficult

3:26

to pin down. Where is your

3:28

the Muslim forces was at of

3:31

heavy infantry heavy cavalry which is

3:33

quite easy to pick off with

3:35

a sort of Mongol strategy. but

3:37

really the. Your. The

3:39

source of the muslim weaknesses

3:41

is this is sort of

3:44

internal disunity and their an

3:46

inability to centralize anymore sir

3:48

as these forces kind of

3:50

come through eventually they get

3:52

t. Bug. Dot. And

3:54

when they're in, that when

3:56

they surround Baghdad, they. There's

3:59

no on protecting it. And.

4:02

They. Yeah and then of so

4:04

eventually her Billy Conn brings out the

4:06

callous and. And. He

4:08

is. Yeah. As

4:10

he has who really concert tours

4:12

Baghdad he finds this tower belonging

4:15

to the callous full of treasure

4:17

and Hulu is a poor because

4:19

the callous has not. Use.

4:21

This money to raise arms to defend the city. And

4:24

I feel like you should have protected your people whose?

4:26

So he locked him in the towel with his gold

4:28

and says why don't you eat your goals as you

4:31

value it so much. Their

4:33

into the heat than he relents. He. Had

4:36

allows the Calif out of this tower

4:38

and then he. Grows

4:40

him up in a carpet and has

4:42

been trampled by horses which was yes,

4:44

while that sounds cruel and for sure

4:47

it is actually the way the Mongols

4:49

killed their own. Leaders to this

4:51

is a sign of honor to them and killing

4:53

him this way to they believe in shedding blood

4:55

according to their own religion. As.

4:58

Okay, not shedding blood of like nobles.

5:02

On. Like an execution had

5:04

to be kind of bloodless a your own

5:06

a copy haven't trampled by horses right? Me

5:08

and blood technically could be would probably say

5:10

i'm for your arms mean tremblay horses married.

5:12

But the ideas like not by the sword

5:15

yeah exactly exactly. And and you're you'd look

5:17

at carpet some those reason of rugs in

5:19

that region. Since. Very ornate

5:21

way to be. Yeah.

5:23

There are soup escrow how to value to

5:25

you know at that point my associate with

5:28

carpets and there's harbor from latin yeah there

5:30

are many kids as a really there are

5:32

those are very nice though so the mongols

5:34

royal fan a cough and kill you that

5:36

way take as a compliment him on so

5:39

is that point. The. Islamic

5:41

World. At dear the. The.

5:44

Central Power is relocated to

5:46

Cairo in Egypt. And.

5:50

The Mongols have their own internal

5:53

problems on because it's a very

5:55

much a tribal society as well

5:57

and events. The says here who

5:59

Hulu. On. The. Or and that

6:01

arrest them over the kind of like be a

6:03

record in the conquest Stop the the hadn't happened.

6:05

They are they going to take over everything they

6:07

would just sit of unstoppable. So.

6:12

They've. Conquered a lot of territory, but

6:14

the Mongols actually practice religious tolerance and

6:16

so they didn't care what you believe

6:18

as long as you pay your taxes

6:20

for the great Khan. So

6:23

it because of that. Islam.

6:25

Had years spread very easily

6:27

among these young. Mongols.

6:30

The Mongol empire that she weighs Islam to spread

6:32

in more ways than it had. Already.

6:35

So. What

6:38

you saw it has was has happened. This

6:40

point is because these. Internal.

6:42

Court intrigues, people start

6:45

hiring soldiers and bodyguards

6:47

from. Other territories.

6:50

So. In Egypt's that they

6:52

hire bunch of yeah I'm

6:54

turkic. Your. Slaves from

6:56

the sort of Mongo territories and

6:59

I called the the mom lox

7:01

and eventually these this military power

7:04

this serves that has no investment

7:06

in the internal politics his own

7:08

investing in paid suddenly catherine investment

7:11

which is. Well. We

7:13

should have power instead of serving the

7:15

power to the power and exist without

7:17

us. Right into that happens on. End

7:20

and then. You. Start

7:22

to have the Ottomans rise up in

7:24

Turkey through these years to these tribes

7:26

who inherited from these mongo conquest and

7:28

they have their own kind of you

7:30

know way of life which is I

7:33

yeah if if it's perfectly into this

7:35

had of whole. On.

7:37

Hard times for a strong man. From

7:40

Anchorage. Good times good times Great week

7:42

Men we've been create hard times and

7:44

you have the cycle with his is

7:46

on a opulence if you think of

7:48

like Mohammed directs his contemporaries the a

7:50

desert dwellers who were living in hard

7:53

times and they. A. Powerful because

7:55

of that and conquer everything we have a

7:57

that that eventually that leads to his own

7:59

opulence. And decay and lavish lifestyles?

8:01

Where is so it is on

8:03

the side of people living in

8:05

in Cairo and the rest a

8:08

kind of you know soft targets

8:10

to their living in a pretty

8:12

easy opulent life. These. Toxic.

8:14

People that they are. Yeah, horse

8:16

people that live in tents and

8:18

suddenly start. Yeah. Gaining lots

8:21

of lots more power on.

8:24

And eventually. The. Ottomans

8:26

start taking over all the Turkey,

8:28

pushing back the Byzantine and then

8:31

they start military conquest of the

8:33

muslim or themselves and they take

8:35

over all those North Africa and

8:38

eventually they take over a Mecca

8:40

and Medina and they take over.

8:43

Egypt and. So.

8:46

On Fifteen seventeen the same year

8:48

as reformation, something very important happens

8:50

in the Muslim world. The Caliph,

8:53

a. Is transferred

8:55

from the Aba said that it's

8:57

like the Arab descendants of you

8:59

know Mohammed tried to the Ottomans

9:01

you have no relation to. Mohammed.

9:04

Stride. And

9:06

so the Ottoman Empire is now the

9:08

leader of the Muslim world and claims

9:10

you. Calif A

9:13

on. And the

9:15

Ottoman Empire is expanding

9:17

into Europe. At. This point.

9:20

So after the reformation you

9:22

have a are. You.

9:24

You got it. You have like a hundred years conflict

9:27

which ends in the Peace of Westphalia. All

9:30

the while while the rest masons happening the

9:32

Ottoman Empire is advancing through Europe you

9:34

know state by state and is on

9:36

the or the verge of in of

9:38

taking everything. And. Taking everything on,

9:41

But the Peace of Westphalia essentially

9:43

means the Protestants and Catholics stop

9:45

fighting each other and agree to

9:47

live in nation states where Catholics

9:49

and Protestants are allowed to practice

9:51

their inner. Their. Religion

9:54

freely and. And.

9:57

One thing that's very interesting is, you know,

10:00

The first person in Europe was to

10:02

advocate. To kind of

10:04

public the advocate for the translations a cron.

10:07

I'm. I'm. Marty.

10:10

No idea. How.

10:12

So. The first ever I'm so they

10:15

try to cross into latin as

10:17

a pre face written. By

10:19

Martin Luther because the Catholics wouldn't allow to

10:21

be translated on that Martin Luther basically argued

10:24

of we're gonna he had be dealing with

10:26

the Muslims and we have this civilization Starting

10:28

at the Muslims, we need to understand what

10:30

they believe be at a critique it properly.

10:34

So Martin Luther was a

10:36

big advocate of examining Muslim

10:38

ideas and and thinking about

10:40

them. And. Because it

10:42

was pressing in his day because this was

10:45

years the at the amp I can be

10:47

on to eat Sir Martin these the describes

10:49

the Catholic church and the talks on does

10:51

fit as the two horns of the anti

10:53

Christ and he likes his was like very

10:55

much on his. On. His mind.

10:58

So. For him the crime was first translate from

11:00

Arabic and to Latin he and then was them

11:02

from what do you transfer from then like Latin

11:04

a German or was not denying he was is

11:06

going to have a scholarly reading of it reached

11:08

his license a scholarly language of the time ago.

11:12

so enormous her be like. Hey

11:14

you average person you need to read the

11:16

Koran but he's like hey Christian scholars we

11:19

need to be thinking about these things. Yeah,

11:21

a question or quicker than is Sid the

11:23

Arabic language and a meeting in this did

11:25

the etymology of like they're big language that

11:27

exists prior to Muhammad or that whole dialect

11:30

of Arabic that was Did that come about

11:32

as as result of the rise of Islam?

11:35

Is bit both guys who sent the

11:37

if i mean do language Mohammed is

11:39

speaking answer is kind of a one

11:41

of many dialects and then it kind

11:44

of becomes the is like seven main

11:46

dialects entire Mohammed and the Koran becomes

11:48

the basis for was known as formal

11:50

Arabic officer on which is even now

11:52

the Arabic dialects around the world don't

11:54

read line up with that. So

11:57

the average Arab he's reading the koran. If

12:00

not reading a book in the language they can

12:02

have read, write and sink in a cap on

12:04

the it's a language of kind of educated people.

12:07

Younger than I know a lot and primaries

12:09

because he has all the different different sects

12:11

of of Islam depending on who you're dialogue

12:14

with the law them would adhere to the

12:16

fact that reading that the Koran is meant

12:18

to be read in Arabic, There's this a

12:20

more pure reading vs. reading an English translation

12:22

of it. Correct it. Basically any. Orthodox.

12:25

Islam is going to believe that the

12:27

carotid is only the koran when right

12:29

in Arabic. Because I'm It's not just

12:32

a book you read for information, some

12:34

recite out loud and you're gonna get

12:36

spiritual blessings from that. As you

12:38

recite et al out? Yeah on. A

12:40

little, the ads kind of even imagine

12:42

these scales of judging with good deeds

12:45

of one side, baddies on the other.

12:47

It literally ads sings feel Good Deeds

12:49

to Rewrite Allied Narvik. Yeah.

12:51

But still, inner were you expecting a a

12:53

little cameo by Martin Luther and this whole

12:55

discussion? I was not expecting

12:57

cameo for Martin Luther, but I understand

12:59

a word or he wants he wants

13:01

have a scholarly critique me to have

13:03

a reasonable defense for the faith that

13:06

we have rights offers Peter Three Fifteen.

13:08

So I I get it. Hats off

13:10

to Martin Luther for that. So so

13:12

an Arab. So the Arabic. I

13:14

was in. So that's comic a divine

13:16

language and some Muslims. And if you

13:18

don't, if you're Muslim living in America

13:21

and you're not reading it in Arabic

13:23

or understanding it. You're. Not reading it at

13:25

all. I'm. Generally

13:27

know like. A. Like

13:29

this not the people would always discourage reading

13:31

and your own language they would you say. That's.

13:34

Not the main point. But.

13:36

If you're reading this, you're not reading the

13:38

yeah, not really. Reading the koran you have

13:41

to recite in Arabic, Whether are you understand,

13:43

that's what you already supposed to do. You

13:46

understand the meanings. His. Ear. Of

13:49

tertiary importance that it's not like the

13:51

main thing people. Redefault. And

13:54

cats and so he hasn't picking up from like

13:56

you said, the eyes you Martin Luther and of

13:58

trouncing what is it would. There's a big surprise

14:01

use have the of all manner of muscle

14:03

of islam at that time on wait where's

14:05

where does it wears a progress from there

14:07

so. Began the context. Martin

14:10

loses and is. On

14:12

he and his the Ottoman Empire's the

14:14

rising power right? but like to and

14:16

like, really, that's the moment is kind

14:18

of the real upstart. You. Know

14:21

unstoppable nature. Kids. Get the

14:23

year the reformation is year it takes

14:25

Egypt. From. Last year they

14:27

become the callous right? That's where

14:29

we're getting to in history. While

14:32

I'm so. And then in,

14:34

I believe Sixteen eighty three. On.

14:37

Oft again after the reformation. out

14:39

of Peace of Westphalia, the Ottomans

14:41

have progressed all the way to

14:43

Vienna. In Austria. And

14:46

the City of Austria cause

14:48

for help and your five

14:50

different European nation states com

14:53

and they have a. Year.

14:55

They engage the muscles in battle and

14:57

then his polish for for the wind

15:00

has sauce you know, marches and routes,

15:02

the Ottoman army and one very very

15:04

important thing to your have happened at

15:06

this point and one thing may or

15:09

may not have happened. Very.

15:11

Very important thing that comes from his battle

15:13

was the first coffee shop in Europe. Because

15:18

coffee shops were huge thing and

15:20

Ottoman Turkish culture and. I'm

15:23

basically they the when the army route

15:25

to the last two tons of coffee

15:27

beans in that camp. So they voted

15:30

into the city Vienna and created Europe's

15:32

first coffee house that. Wow.

15:35

That's cool. Man is coffee is way better than

15:37

T. Agreed on or anything. we're

15:39

all that are for like brands that

15:41

are out there me your ear from

15:43

Seattle so obviously you seem in the

15:45

sworn with the Starbucks and they have

15:47

their own words and story like how

15:49

many how many call I don't have

15:51

any modern your coffee shops were before

15:53

he got to be ruined their molotovs

15:55

this than the other. and there's their

15:57

stories and giant battle that took place

15:59

in. They can credit the Ottoman Empire

16:01

for that like up. That's a pretty

16:04

epic origin story right there. that's that's

16:06

a brand that's pretty redness things i

16:08

be irreparable brand or to store their

16:10

rights of the Ottoman empire. Had one,

16:12

we'd still have coffee shops on evade

16:14

last less decisively we wouldn't. On

16:17

the other the other legend say they

16:20

may or may not be true is

16:22

croissants as well. Governors, Battle.

16:24

So. The were

16:27

getting back to the crescent moon right said and

16:29

present moon was kind of this sort of. The

16:31

crescent moon symbolism has been. You. Know

16:33

Ah, Around for a long

16:35

time. that was. Very. Prominent

16:37

in the sort of Ottoman culture so the

16:40

awesome and flag with credit minute. So

16:43

because that was the last kind of

16:45

great empire representing Islam, that's why the

16:47

crescent moon is kind of become the

16:49

logo for Islam. But. Assist: The

16:51

Ottoman flags didn't have any like

16:53

theological significance before that. On

16:56

so the idea is it for the French Big

16:58

Dipper that have a pace you have for but

17:00

a beta into the save with present to celebrate

17:02

the victory of the awesome into the seas of

17:05

Vienna. Who knows of that's

17:07

true, but that's the legend with of everybody's

17:09

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and we have a lover foods and copy

17:36

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17:38

all reason it in in these like really

17:40

to battles yeah I'm so. So

17:42

at that point. I'm off to

17:44

that. The. Islamic? Wow. So basically

17:47

from the point of the Reformation, the

17:49

Peace of Westphalia, the Islamic World is

17:51

in constant decline. Since that. On.

17:55

It's been. It's

17:57

been unable to keep up it has been.

17:59

You're constantly play the from that point the

18:01

seizure Vienna was the turning point. So

18:04

I'm from that point the Ottoman

18:06

Empire kept existing kept kind of

18:08

you know doing it's you're doing

18:11

it's thing for a long time

18:13

and would you be passive? different

18:15

alliances with Europe that kind of

18:17

lost lot of said a distinctive

18:19

the Islamic identity and lot of

18:21

ways some sanity line with England.

18:23

sometimes Germany and then. In.

18:25

World War One. In

18:28

this kind of complex alliance

18:30

structure. On. The.

18:33

Ottomans allied with Germany.

18:35

In. The First World War know

18:37

as well as the set of

18:39

In In The Trenches in. Europe

18:42

you have the hear these

18:44

lines as you know people

18:46

like shooting each other and

18:48

meat grinder. Meanwhile the British.

18:52

Have designs in North Africa

18:54

and Arabia. So that's where

18:57

Lawrence of Arabia comes and

18:59

who he is, a British

19:02

Army sergeant. He goes

19:04

into Arabia like he's he was.

19:06

It isn't our heels you. So

19:08

we learn Arabic before. So he

19:11

goes into Arabia and starts making

19:13

these connections with these Arabs who

19:15

resent being ruled by non arabs.

19:19

And study of the I chord of

19:21

Feisal who is this Sharif of Mecca.

19:23

Pfizer was a direct descendant from Mohammed.

19:26

And so Mohammed had made a promise that

19:28

the callous eight will remain among the Quraysh

19:31

even as any two people less on us.

19:33

meaning that the callous should have been Arab

19:35

the whole time. And the Ottoman. Design.

19:38

On this is kind of betrayal

19:40

of that. So on. The.

19:42

British are able to have exploited

19:45

the sentiment and they are able

19:47

to fun. Fight this

19:49

very modern guerrilla war against

19:51

the Ottomans attacking their railway.

19:53

I'm using these the local

19:56

Arab tribes and they are

19:58

able to defeat. The

20:00

Ottoman Empire and that

20:02

the territory as on.

20:05

The. Middle East under this at a

20:07

joint control of England and France

20:10

on. So then in Nineteen sixteen

20:12

they this amigo the site's pico

20:14

agreement were basically England, France and

20:16

a divide up these countries into

20:19

areas of influence. And

20:21

then Turkey or the Ottoman Empire

20:24

is pushed back into the jury

20:26

or geographic to territory of Turkey.

20:28

And then they have a revolution

20:30

which leads to a guy could

20:32

attack on Mustapha Kemal Ataturk meaning

20:34

father of the Tux who yeah

20:36

reformulate Turkey am according to sit

20:39

of Western ideals basically. So he

20:41

says okay and we're not going

20:43

to be an empire anymore, Going

20:45

to be a nation. Yeah, I

20:47

were going to have one language

20:49

when he won. United People. And.

20:53

He's very specifically says islam.

20:56

Will. No longer be a religion of

20:58

sword and politics, but it will be

21:00

a religion of hearts and minds. And

21:03

that's where Islam or through the thrive.

21:05

To. Basically, he's looking at the Westphalian

21:07

model, the comes out of the reformation

21:10

in Europe and applying that to Turkey

21:12

than in Nineteen Twenty Four exactly one

21:14

hundred years ago, His.

21:17

Government abolished the Caliph. it. So.

21:20

For one hundred years now. The. Muslim

21:22

world has been cut up into nation

21:24

states with no callous and that is

21:27

the backdrop for everything that is happening

21:29

in any and the influence of any

21:31

of the the reformation like so far

21:33

behind our that the influence the Referee

21:35

somehow and European culture they looked at

21:37

that that. Wow. Yeah, time

21:39

at a long lasting effect. The never

21:41

even then it came to mind as

21:43

fascinating right where Rights? So I'm. So

21:46

so if you look at the way

21:49

the bible formulates the wild right if

21:51

he saw him out the nation's and

21:53

he was they will Us talking about

21:56

in or ethnicities is not. That's a

21:58

more modern dance that look at. Just

22:00

use Romy. How is God define Israel?

22:02

It's people, It's borders and it's law.

22:06

right? That's how the Bio was

22:08

defining Israel's a nation and acts

22:10

as Seventeen Poll says. You know

22:12

when gods divide up the nation's

22:14

according to that boundaries, right? So.

22:17

On this a decentralized nation

22:19

state idea comes to us

22:21

through the reformation. From

22:24

the Bible. And

22:26

then is kind of a fighter the world

22:28

in your World War Two to some extent

22:30

on the that's a fundamentally Christian way of

22:33

looking at the world. Where.

22:36

The that is not the Islamic way of looking

22:38

at the world. So the Islamic were looking the

22:40

world with the has the house of Islam are

22:43

under that. Wise guidance of

22:45

one the the who's over religion

22:47

and state on and so basically

22:49

the British in the basically you

22:52

inadvertently can like forced the Muslim

22:54

world to function like the Christian

22:56

world whereas Ot attack very consciously

22:58

did that. I'm in

23:00

making Turkey is a set of

23:03

in a secular division between powers

23:05

of. Kind of scam of smile

23:07

and that has set the foundation for the Muslim

23:09

what as we know today. Cook.

23:12

So is there no such thing as islam?

23:14

any more than. If there's no

23:16

cows, it. Well. Not

23:20

and definitely not on. But.

23:23

This does it. But there's ways people

23:25

have to formulate things differently. so. Before

23:28

the abolition the Caliph A there

23:31

were some Maliki Muslim scholars who

23:33

didn't believe that it was lawful

23:35

to has I'm. Like Juma

23:37

Prior an A in a mosque.

23:39

Like their Friday service. Basically I'm

23:42

in a non muslim country. Because.

23:44

Gym a prayer was created Medina which was

23:47

a function of the state. So.

23:50

Basically I'm. You're.

23:53

Is imagine it would be like imagining if you

23:55

can as. You. Know somebody stole

23:57

the Vatican and year those know.

24:00

The Pope. In Roman Catholicism. What happens

24:02

The Roman Catholicism. At that point He

24:04

didn't just disappear, but it has to

24:06

start reformulating. At some some ways it

24:08

in the same way Judaism reformulated itself

24:11

off to the Temple and stride right.

24:13

so it's been. It's seismic in a

24:15

lot of ways. Although not a seismic

24:17

as you might think because. You're.

24:20

It's already been decentralizing and lot

24:22

of ways for. You

24:24

know really since the decline of Islamic

24:26

golden age so muslims have learned to

24:29

function without any like direct oversight from

24:31

a leader. So for lot of he

24:33

was kind of ceremonial but it's still

24:35

powerful in that. In. The

24:37

minds of Muslims because as a kind of hole in

24:40

the center of. The. World Basically.

24:42

Who. Are they

24:44

looking? is. Is there like

24:46

some central body ordered organization? It's me

24:48

that looking to become a callous the

24:51

again. Not. Really,

24:53

I mean people try to do it, but if you

24:55

remember, Isis. This.

24:58

Is what they were about. I'm.

25:00

They. Have this whole big press conference

25:03

where they drove a bulldozer through the

25:05

Iraq and Syria border and there is

25:07

no Iraq and Syria this the Islamic

25:09

State. And then they called their leader

25:11

Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi, the callous so.

25:15

That's. Basically what they are trying

25:17

to accomplish that was a solemn

25:19

Bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri

25:21

wanted in the engine room. And

25:23

so their goal of attacking America

25:25

and Nine Eleven was t basically

25:27

destabilize the governments of Saudi Arabia

25:29

and Egypt because basically they say

25:31

that that's what they're cause. was

25:33

there cause was we don't want

25:35

to be ruled by these petty

25:37

dictators and you know you'd. Things.

25:41

We want to have. The. Territory

25:43

of muslims ruled by a

25:45

callous so that. And. Game

25:47

was have it within of of your do

25:49

that While America's propping up the Saudi government

25:51

which is our ally and so we need,

25:53

we need to get America. Exhausted

25:56

through terrorist attacks and was don't go

25:58

anywhere so that is low the playing

26:00

field so we could build the Middle

26:02

East we want to built from and

26:04

reestablish this idea of all muslims under

26:06

one leader. On. Leading.

26:08

And instead of this kind of like Muslim

26:10

utopia base am an only as good as

26:12

here because you're you're in sight words were

26:14

talking. knew about some the Vollmann nineteen twenties

26:16

and that you're in and of Arabia and

26:19

I was like man I'm an actor time,

26:21

my wife Valerie watching some of the classics

26:23

she's actually never seen in Ten Commandments and

26:25

or of me watching on a research but

26:27

I'm like man we watch Lawrence of Arabia

26:29

to his fish around the time. but I'm

26:31

What's interesting too is that I'm I'm curious

26:33

because we're at lunch or dinner. did the

26:35

night I'll be. I'll show you the that

26:37

we the kingdom. That came out I can

26:39

two thousand and seven and the introduction sort

26:42

of had that's for a timeline of American

26:44

involvement like in the Middle East with their

26:46

foreign policy. like how did that be silly

26:48

was like missing some Thompson segment sign of

26:51

i'm jumping too much had known as find

26:53

the like I'll go with American foreign policy

26:55

and it. And also another thing too is

26:57

that like I remember being introduced, Nine Eleven

27:00

now is very much a hardcore right wing

27:02

like pro Bush conservative mm like Michael Moore

27:04

liked attacking the filmmaker Michael Moore did for

27:06

Nine and Eleven. sort of. Attacking force

27:08

and saying he has a son

27:10

association were like the Saudi government

27:12

but then you'll see more responsible. Oh

27:15

actually there's the Saudi government related

27:17

to has had relations with all

27:19

these previous Us presidents to and as

27:21

emery in the tunnels like man,

27:23

what's where did this all start?

27:25

Like why like wireless relationship started? How

27:28

did that affect that? So narrow

27:30

that all like work in Well

27:32

I'm says this gray and and I

27:34

think I'm I work with a

27:36

lot of Saudis then I. Love

27:38

the Saudis for non. Unlike.

27:41

Most. Muslims don't like them. Of

27:43

most Saudis don't like of the Saudis.

27:45

ah I love Saudis yeah or I

27:48

enjoy them. I have it as the

27:50

that their coaches fascinating to me and

27:52

Yehuda sorts of wonderful things about. Saudi.

27:55

Hotel on. But I think one

27:57

thing people miss is how complicated

27:59

that you know. Country

28:01

is but. I'm

28:03

Saudi Arabia is a good sort.

28:06

A case study here because the

28:08

name Saudi Arabia. Array

28:10

is always record Arabia but it's called Saudi

28:13

Arabia is. Ruled. By the Sound tribe

28:15

who writes So that's what someone like a

28:17

song been on once that he had a

28:19

deal with a d get rid of the

28:21

didn't want to sow tried to once. And.

28:23

Islamic state, not Saudi

28:25

state. I'm. So

28:28

the. So. The

28:30

relation between. Saudi.

28:32

Arabia and America has come

28:35

through Saudi Aramco. The Arabian

28:37

American. Oil. Company on

28:39

which has been a. Which.

28:41

Has been a good. Deal.

28:43

For everybody, rent is not one of these

28:46

things that. You. Know you is

28:48

this concludes exercise where you know the

28:50

west these with like piles of gold

28:52

and year these people left in know

28:54

disease in poverty. This

28:56

is listed Saudi Arabia to be a wealthy

28:59

country right? This is been a win win

29:01

situation between. Arabia, A

29:03

Saudi Arabia and America? Yeah,

29:05

I doing business together. Rights

29:07

so on. As

29:09

don't want to see good things you've done in

29:11

the Middle East and lot of ways and Saudi

29:14

culture. Was. Generally of

29:16

fairly moderate culture. Until

29:18

I in Nineteen seventy Four

29:21

on their king Faisal was

29:23

assassinated by his nephew also

29:26

named Feisal on. And.

29:30

Then. A few years later

29:32

some radical muslims took over Mecca

29:34

and held hostage and they were

29:36

basically demanding the abdication of the

29:38

Saudi royal family. White busy, become

29:40

too westernized. you're getting rid of

29:42

islam and you know easy overthrown.

29:44

So King Fahd in the eighties

29:46

intrusive called the Basic Law of

29:49

Saudi Arabia which is the Saudi

29:51

Arabia of are you know, touted

29:53

imaginations and right was you know

29:55

women can't drive cause everyone's covered

29:57

head to toe movie theaters that

29:59

didn't amused. There's no, you know,

30:01

there's no joy or anything like

30:03

that. I am and the Saudi

30:05

family royal family did that out

30:07

of necessity because they were worried

30:09

they're going to be you know,

30:11

overthrown. Rights So

30:14

they have factions they have to

30:16

deal with. Which are these radical

30:18

Muslims? And. They

30:20

have to. Your. Keep them and

30:22

second appease and some extent in order to

30:25

maintain and he powerbase to anytime they want

30:27

to move the country forward in some way

30:29

they have to worry about this so they

30:31

have easier religious faith is going around telling

30:34

everyone what to do is I mean here

30:36

at. That. In Saudi coach at

30:38

people hate these people and there's a

30:40

saying. Is

30:43

is is as saying in nudged he

30:45

which sick or something like tells bayonets.

30:48

With though. We're. Assuming our and it

30:50

is like what it means is. Put.

30:53

A religious health of between you and

30:55

hell I'm right or they think they're

30:57

going to, these people are going to

30:59

hell yeah. And in so you have

31:01

this public Islam in Saudi Arabia to

31:03

super hardcore philosophy Woo Not bought into

31:05

this rice including your family. So.

31:08

What? The. King.

31:10

Of Saudi Arabia. did. Was.

31:12

Basically they they recent years or their oil

31:15

money to send all their students on scholarships

31:17

to the west. Both are learn things and

31:19

they get a more moderate view of the

31:21

world friend and that as set the stage

31:24

for the current crown prince. He sneered basic

31:26

absolute dictator the country on. To.

31:29

Make. All these reforms women to now

31:31

drive. You have movie theaters and concerts

31:33

and you know. A little bit more

31:35

freedom to say what you think. You're

31:38

not entirely but are do not criticizing the

31:40

government is lot more leeway than you had

31:42

on and he is. He's remove all the

31:44

powers of restroom the religious police and he

31:46

says in two thousand seventeen Saudi Arabia is

31:49

going to be what once was a moderate

31:51

Muslim country, this open to all religions and

31:53

open to the world. We're not going to

31:55

spend the next thirty years of allies hiding

31:57

from extremists. We're going to destroy them today.

32:00

So. On. Yet.

32:03

Years or so people don't realize that

32:05

you have this struggle with Saudi Arabia

32:07

swim law school. The time nice was

32:09

his myself. Why does we allies with

32:11

Saudi Arabia rise rise. The Saudi Arabia

32:13

is up to the like us that

32:15

that like genuine friends and half year

32:17

common interests with us. Yeah. And.

32:20

Are they building a center? Rule religions?

32:22

Their memory. And. Dubai. They definitely

32:24

are. Okay, maybe that's related to it.

32:26

They want to show the rope more

32:28

open, more sinker sick? Yeah for sure.

32:30

Yeah, I'm. So. But

32:33

that the things we've haven't done well

32:35

in the Middle East would be things

32:38

like. Funding the majorities

32:40

in Afghanistan? Yeah, so I'm in what

32:42

are the end of World War Two?

32:44

America as a generally benevolent foreign policy

32:47

which for these in. The.

32:49

Christian idea of self determination and

32:51

nation season decentralized power. Yes, The

32:53

Atlantic Charter between Roosevelt and Churchill.

32:56

that was the conditions of America

32:58

helping yell help the no more

33:00

empires. On know British

33:03

Empire know German Empire. That's ah

33:05

condition, right? On. But.

33:07

When we're fighting the Cold War, this

33:09

is very much and justify the means

33:11

attitude. Soda Brzezinski. His. Goal:

33:13

A gym and Jimmy Carter's

33:16

Foreign Secretary was to fund

33:18

the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and.

33:21

Basically. Give the Soviets their Vietnam.

33:23

With. The goal of collapsing the Soviet

33:25

Union. Said. It would be at it. He. Says

33:28

Afghanistan's like the graveyard of empires is my,

33:30

we discuss their name on Charlie Wilson's war,

33:32

this is as a time when the. Yeah.

33:35

We're in the eighties now against yeah,

33:37

So in the eighties, I'm. Soooo

33:40

in the eighties weekend if one

33:42

of the Mujahideen the Soviet Union

33:44

flaps is a brilliant strategy but

33:46

basically it just so afghanistan as

33:48

kind of collateral damage. Your. The

33:50

ends justify the means North take out.

33:52

These are the power and that's basically

33:54

how America and the West has been

33:56

treating the Middle East since. Since? Can

33:58

it really? Since the. Cold War? I'm

34:00

not really. you know, being too concerned

34:02

about the wellbeing of the actual people.

34:05

that and having a short sighted foreign

34:07

policy for that. So because of that,

34:09

And. because of the government's with propped

34:12

up. Then we start to kind of

34:14

come into the cross as as. You.

34:16

Know people like a zombie, not and

34:19

there's not as it. And and listen.

34:22

"Via the this radical Islam would be

34:24

violent, whether or not we're involved, but

34:26

it is certainly our foreign policy that

34:28

has made" A little bit

34:31

more pointed at us, right? Some ways. Some

34:33

good things, some bad things. Yeah.

34:37

In are also what's the diff. Yeah. What's the difference

34:39

between would say? like. The

34:41

conquering cows. Me. I'd.

34:44

During it. Isn't it will these

34:46

little bit before that? On than what

34:48

we would consider quoting pull radical

34:50

Islam today. I. Would they

34:52

conquerors yet? So the conqueror is.

34:55

But what? Or a force. They.

34:58

Want revolution? That. You're

35:00

right, they want revolutionaries trying to

35:02

overthrow government. It was one state

35:04

fighting other state, right? And.

35:07

It's time it gunpowder. And.

35:10

So much. And. So that

35:12

that the hope is yeah we want to be that

35:14

one day that first we have to do is you

35:16

know. Plenty. Of

35:19

degrade the states might. Say.

35:22

The funny thing is. They.

35:25

Really. do what you know. Jolt really ruined

35:27

our kind of plans. Isis.

35:33

On because Al Qaeda had the scenery our eyes

35:35

were. Harry had this in a. Master

35:37

plan has putting radical muslims

35:39

saturated throughout western countries and

35:42

and eventually when it was

35:44

time. They get. Here.

35:47

They could finally. Got. The coffee

35:49

room. Whereas. Isis. basically

35:52

light. Yeah. We agree.

35:54

Calif will do this now.

35:56

Leroy Jenkins a success and

35:58

just similar Went. Yeah, and

36:00

then all these operatives that had been like

36:02

you know bought into this route kind of

36:05

vision suddenly find the Isis one lot more

36:07

compelling to that tried Live or they want

36:09

much faster. Yeah, it's all these people who

36:11

were like potential sleeper agents in western countries.

36:13

Like right? We're going to go to Syria

36:15

and become a conventional army and allies with

36:17

us. or will be defeated. and then defeated.

36:20

And so their whole like long term. Plan.

36:23

Is kind of is counted. In. A skirt?

36:26

Yeah, I. Am know it's is

36:28

interesting too A because where we are sort

36:30

of were working ways to the store google

36:32

time when we started a long have met

36:35

a long time ago and now we're in

36:37

it now or in the sensor that we

36:39

recognize me Unlucky now and nineteen eighties can

36:41

even now like and all these things in

36:44

a lead up to like when my favorite

36:46

books as one by Lawrence for a couple

36:48

looming tower. Was. Like Al Qaeda in

36:50

the past, like to Nine Eleven need to get

36:52

into their beds. That. Oh on our

36:55

involvement in lead up to Nine Eleven

36:57

which really I remember that year of

36:59

high from two thousand and one's really

37:01

to douse neither such a conversation the

37:03

political sphere about. The role

37:05

of Islam and all that. but the I

37:07

memory what and then a been reinforced. A

37:10

lot of people were christians say okay, how

37:12

do I actually interact. With. The

37:14

Muslim world. That was a big thing

37:16

for me and and ultimately we're This

37:18

is where we're headed. This were taking

37:20

with the series is at all his

37:22

history. All this always different parts of

37:24

this linear time on even getting into

37:26

the kind of of the geopolitical world

37:28

of the last one hundred years and

37:30

I think even the last twenty to

37:32

thirty years and has had a huge

37:34

impact on all of us. but that

37:36

again that that is heavily wade into

37:39

how we actually interact with are are

37:41

Muslims, friends and neighbors like we're talking

37:43

about you. Know the reason for

37:45

the Afghanistan obviously. That happen.

37:47

Mm room. We went into Afghanistan always years

37:49

ago y twenty seven years ago and then

37:51

we exit out two years ago. But then

37:53

having the refugees sort of come up in

37:55

your area, not being a place where you

37:57

actually get to interact and dialogue with him.

38:00

Real time data we're seeing.

38:02

How these things parts together as far as

38:04

how we actually interact with them as christians

38:06

and how the how the difference to your

38:08

political events. In fact that so the segway

38:10

I want to close with hair before we

38:13

have had the next section about this is.

38:16

How I want you to think about

38:18

Islamic history is. Yeah. People

38:20

are worried about this kind of imminent

38:22

threat, but the truth is is matter

38:25

is this: The Islamic World has not

38:27

been in the ascendancy since the Protestant

38:29

Reformation. On it's ear

38:32

it's it's fracturing and was

38:34

a protestant reformation created worse

38:36

and. Prosperous. Nation

38:38

states that it with decentralized

38:40

power, freedom of expression, and

38:42

you know, economy in education,

38:46

And so. What's. Happening now.

38:49

Is. A mass migration from the Muslim

38:51

World. To the west.

38:54

And. People see this is a threat. And.

38:56

For sure there might be some threats associated

38:58

with this and once a way, shape or

39:01

form or another. The think about this every

39:03

time that a Muslim comes to the West

39:05

for. Whether. It's safety where

39:07

is free of expression, works prosperity,

39:10

or whether it's for education than

39:12

making an implicit decision. That.

39:15

They would rather live in

39:17

a country inconsistent the. Based.

39:19

On Christian ideas than they would let

39:21

them rather drive the that and and

39:23

a Muslim country. While. Is.

39:26

That not an opportunity the we

39:29

should be engaged in as christians

39:31

absolutely. Absolutely into Yemeni

39:33

less thoughts and we wrap up

39:35

here. Oh, hundred percent

39:37

man, I love I did. That was very

39:39

well said. It's changing the way I think

39:41

about what's going on today. I mean, you're

39:44

hundred and ten percent, right? That's why I'm

39:46

asking the question like for instance or his

39:48

know. How of it is

39:50

his mom exist? I get how can

39:52

exist philosophically and religiously, but I'm the

39:54

people. Like you said, when they're moving

39:57

from be states, nation states or whatever,

39:59

going to. America. They're.

40:01

Abandoning. What? His

40:03

mom kind of the is fundamentally. And

40:06

that's an opportunity for us to be like,

40:08

look, This. Is from Jesus This

40:10

is from his rule. Is raining

40:12

right in the heavenly places and you can be

40:14

seated with him. In. Your salvation and and

40:17

had inherit every special blessing and a heavenly places

40:19

through Jesus and faith alone. Which. Is

40:21

it should be the message. From. A

40:23

Christians anybody who's not in Christ so

40:25

I mean that that's a beautiful man.

40:27

Yes it basically like what I were

40:29

experienced is because of how things have

40:31

gone the last hundred years because if

40:33

you've like ought to talk to our

40:35

the Muslim Brotherhood need yep since basically

40:37

this battle for the soul of the

40:39

Muslim world and a battle in most

40:41

muslims. And Soul which

40:44

is a battle between Islam

40:46

and secularism. Like. They

40:48

believe in. We. Are wanting the

40:50

voice of God in their lives but they

40:52

also see some the benefits of the sort

40:54

of secular while but also see some the

40:56

pitfalls of the secular while the we'd see

40:58

to as christians rights and so all we're

41:00

really trying to do is it ministry here

41:02

is bringing christian voice to that table and.

41:05

He. Of make that a three way tug of war rather

41:07

than just the to a tug of war. Now

41:10

that's good that's good Citizen the Perfect so

41:12

it can wrap up the final segment of

41:14

like this Oregon timeline wouldn't do for the

41:16

rest of the series that we actually going

41:19

to cost segue into I'd like actually how

41:21

to engage how to answer Islam so when

41:23

you actually and hopefully what we we want

41:25

to be able to do is that for

41:27

the rest of the serious when you're wrapped

41:29

up you feel any people can also check

41:31

out your you to see a web links

41:33

in the description is that you'll be on

41:35

a walk away. Hopeless from the series will

41:37

just a degree of confidence and that to

41:39

approach. Your Muslim friend or neighbor and not

41:42

in any way with seer but I really

41:44

love can pass and christened compassion concern And

41:46

would you say earlier that the way we

41:48

shall live as with Courageously Ray are you

41:50

to courageously and lovingly I engage them and

41:53

and it either this time see like it's

41:55

surprising when you go out there to engage

41:57

them like how much they want my conversation.

41:59

They love to talk about the stuff so

42:01

that's that's been my experience. I'm really really

42:03

excited for this I hope answer would I

42:05

That's why I'm really excited for you all

42:08

to enjoy as a rupture up the as

42:10

we go into the other segments of our

42:12

Syria Saw That being said I think all

42:14

for listening and or this is the third

42:16

part and we're going to talk see all

42:18

and the next day one part for of

42:21

this extended as series on Islam. Talk

42:23

to Awesome!