0:19

So you're putting the buyers you

0:21

go on the package. Danger. So.

0:28

They keep on the show. You tell

0:30

people who you, who you are, it's

0:32

lovely voices and what your new project

0:34

is. So I meds it tron and

0:36

run up he often called is a

0:38

Pr. I also read the Where's Your

0:40

and Our newsletter and I have an

0:42

upcoming show with I Hope Radio Uncool

0:44

Zone Media the better Offline podcast. It's

0:46

weekly texture. And what is

0:48

the what's the theme of the weekly

0:50

tech show? Other than we shouldn't be

0:52

online at all, apparently? Well, Something.

0:55

I've noticed with lot of tech coverage and. Principally.

0:58

Tech Podcast is that many of them

1:00

don't seem to actually cover anything from

1:03

an informed perspective. It's either two guys

1:05

limply discussing something. In a way, the.

1:08

Somehow. Makes you know less by

1:10

the end event. Or

1:13

it's one extremely palette

1:15

man. Mumbling, Out questions

1:17

for getting the mid sentence and then

1:20

asking them for a second time in

1:22

a broken man. I'm not talking about

1:24

any one specifically, especially not song called

1:26

Legs and. The. Problem I've

1:28

also found with a lot of. Take

1:30

Coverage in general have seen this from both

1:32

sides is that. I. Actually really

1:35

believe that the format of objective journalism

1:37

which is going to get in some

1:39

trouble. I really saying it is actually

1:41

somewhat limited for the tech industry. We

1:43

actually need more opinion journalism with in

1:45

tech because we have this in politics,

1:47

we have this in business. We have

1:49

this in all sorts of ways but

1:51

take it's very limited and I actually

1:53

think great opinion journalism. Is

1:55

super informative because look, everyone is biased.

1:58

There's no such thing. As. True. The

2:00

activity. And thus.

2:03

Doing. Something and saying this is gonna be

2:05

my opinion. This could be my informed opinion from

2:07

the executive sides, in the reporting side, from the

2:09

consumer side. I. Can tell you

2:12

what my perspective is and I'm. Fiery.

2:14

And I have a perspective and into opinion.

2:16

It's something I've seen that has really resonate

2:19

with my newsletter and whether such a genuinely

2:21

surprised me. People just want to know what.

2:23

Someone who knows what's good. Someone who knows

2:25

what's going on. They want to know what

2:28

they think and then take their own conclusion

2:30

away from it. I don't want to be

2:32

one of those angry. Hell.

2:35

Eons like that the just he sings, house

2:37

of the World or the freaky Sub Stack

2:39

weirdos Glenn Greenwald stasio like I will to

2:41

I'm here to tell people to be pissed

2:43

off on. That's. Not my job, my

2:45

job. However, as the site through the

2:47

agendas implies here, the consequences of these

2:49

genders is what I think. And

2:52

then you come out of it and it's going to

2:54

combine narrative, an interview formats and it's gonna be a

2:56

lot of fun. Said. Before

2:58

we hit record, you were explaining

3:01

the difference between American and British

3:03

Pr. yeah in the sounds like.

3:06

A British model of journalism to.

3:08

Yes, It's something that I would say

3:11

for I haven't lived in England since two

3:13

thousand and nine and. It's

3:15

something you'll see and like Newsnight for example,

3:17

not an exact format but it's this combination

3:19

of narrative journalism so leading you through a

3:21

story saying this, what it's about here are

3:24

the things that you might not know here,

3:26

the things you do know but and where

3:28

they sit in and a mixed with real

3:30

interview something that send you in the frustrates

3:32

me. The tech interviews. and with

3:34

American. Interest in general

3:37

is. This. Amnesia effect.

3:40

Kara. Swisher being one of the worst. for

3:42

this, it's like ask questions, sit, listens, wants

3:44

to go. Okay, And

3:47

then move onto the question after at

3:49

this is saying hey wait a second

3:51

what's you to set it's doesn't make

3:54

any sense. Sam Altman is probably the

3:56

biggest beneficiary of this He Loan mosque

3:58

as well. We think they

4:00

elon musk would just stop crying if he

4:02

was the second question. But.

4:04

The point is. A. Lobby analysis

4:07

is done with a. Fear

4:09

of alienating the source.

4:12

And the truth is. As.

4:14

we've discussed with other things are

4:16

dealing with. Sources: Get

4:18

alienated even if you play completely by

4:20

their rules and I'm not looking to

4:22

do this on. Gonna bring in the

4:25

real truth thing. I don't think that

4:27

that's therapist for the format, but yes,

4:29

the British format is generally more investigative.

4:31

It's more opinionated. It's. A

4:34

bit more fiery. It's a. Bit

4:36

more emotional and that's that's

4:38

what people learning about tech

4:40

deserve. They. Don't we don't need

4:42

this kind of flat. Journalism.

4:45

That a lot of tix only Miss Smith and

4:47

I should add there is a good space for

4:49

that. You. Don't have everything doesn't

4:51

have to be. Fiery emotional,

4:53

that and actually up. I will say someone

4:56

is doing this very well. Joanna Stance on

4:58

the Wall Street Journal. And the

5:00

Lie Patel from The Verge. Those two.

5:02

they do opinionated reviews contents and it

5:04

doesn't have to be over the top.

5:07

Emotional like I will pay to see Now

5:09

goes and five about that Dogan mates. But

5:11

you can come of it from a personal

5:13

perspective. Said: this is my opinion nil. I

5:15

actually did a really good job bringing out

5:17

He Robertson and From The Verge as well.

5:20

Great work and ass covering on the south

5:22

about things right now I believe. Those.

5:25

Are those people are doing great job.

5:27

A great job! I. Think there

5:30

are other organizations that have podcasts?

5:32

You may be major newspapers the

5:34

A Brace, the. Have this

5:36

kind of very empty echoing format.

5:38

but they discuss how Mark Zuckerberg

5:40

did say that didn't need. That's

5:42

interesting. Concept? I can't

5:44

say that's interests. Bollocks.

5:47

Complete nonsense says no one.

5:49

Billions of dollars lost. In

5:51

crypto currency from real people because of

5:53

that kind of approach. And I've just

5:55

rented. Cause I

5:57

aimlessly for a minute there I apologized. I

6:00

think it's very relevant, especially. I think

6:02

about it. You know talking about access

6:04

and how you know in covering culture

6:07

and couple covering celebrities related topics. That

6:09

ends up being a culture of access

6:11

journalism. you know? I think the best

6:13

example of this is the person who

6:15

was hired for that gun at Taylor

6:18

Swift. Reporter positions on that. Especially

6:20

with like the you know people like

6:22

symbolic than fried Sam Altman? you know

6:24

Mark Zuckerberg. they're not gonna talk to

6:26

people for the most part of their

6:28

not put in a goodbye like the

6:30

has been. you know. They

6:33

they have the choice of who they're going to

6:35

actually give the interview to or even on the

6:37

consumer tech side of things to Apple is going

6:39

to give the early yeah now that really had

6:41

set to and I think. Something.

6:43

Like C S to is a really good

6:45

example of this. O

6:48

C S O C S What

6:50

A Shower or the Town. If.

6:53

You'd have knocked me out and told

6:55

me that I'd woken up in twenty

6:57

eighteen? The. C S I would have

6:59

believed use a felt like nothing changed it

7:02

them feel up there was much use their

7:04

products they've got written about that will actually

7:06

written about two thousand and eighteen. There were

7:08

there were things in their budget example. I'm

7:11

trying to remember the one that really shoes gonna

7:13

be such a small sauce about us probably about

7:15

read a book there were it was like heard.

7:18

It was one of these weird judges who is like

7:20

a self heating saying i'm I'm gonna have to find

7:22

this outlay and I'm in a remembered the moment with

7:25

on both. Even think about his.

7:27

they're all come back to Iran. Multiple products

7:29

the get written about. At. C as

7:31

that have I appeared or have been

7:33

appearing at sea as as the space

7:35

top laptop there's a good one is

7:37

a all laptop. The. Allegedly

7:39

gives you an one hundred and screen. I

7:42

think that one was rant about numerous times.

7:44

They might actually be shipping now, so some

7:46

mid twenty twenty three coverage for us. And

7:48

it's. Eat

7:50

seals at times like there is just.

7:53

Send you in Memory issues with Cs

7:55

and I think the it's tough to

7:57

do. Focusing yes is a complete mess.

8:01

It's. Just a complete mess. He sits,

8:03

you go through a hundred things, and

8:05

then you're like, oh gods, What?

8:07

Is it that was relevant? I personally it

8:09

washed over me. I went with the cause

8:12

I'm people the Cs and it just washed

8:14

over me. My brains just. I've.

8:17

Seen it's been like okay, what do I

8:19

even remember. I saw

8:21

a thing said the Chat Cpt for Animals.

8:24

That. Really upset me that like I began to

8:26

disassociate when I heard about that and. It. We

8:28

sorry, yeah I did.

8:31

Isn't. As fun as it sounds it's

8:33

it's as if were so. Descent Cpt.

8:35

Saying. For it's like a chat

8:38

gp thing where you can like take a picture

8:40

of your per and it might say something's wrong

8:42

with that oh so lake. It's. Like

8:44

a web md for your dog or your

8:46

cat you take a pessimist that for house

8:48

plants. And that's

8:50

actually pretty cool. We take forever plants but

8:52

that's what that was and us. I was

8:54

both upset that existed but more upset that

8:56

it wasn't as.i saw it was going to

8:58

be like my dog barks into this. And.

9:01

Shadier Pretty says my dog has

9:03

been radicalised or something. I.

9:05

Would prefer it that my dog is

9:07

a gone woke but. The.

9:09

Thing I'm thinking of by the way was

9:11

the spice taught laptops. This i our glasses

9:14

laptop is just as crappy. Android think it

9:16

was up. Both see as twenty twenty three

9:18

and see is twenty twenty four. And

9:21

has been around for years. No one of

9:23

his to avast in this period when the

9:26

single actually goddamn ship. As things

9:28

thousands of dollars and it's just.

9:31

Jesus. Christ, These people are a sixty one

9:33

million dollars as wealth. This is what the problem

9:35

is with a lot of Take journalism. These.

9:38

Things feel like they are minor like

9:40

okay it's it's okay that this companies

9:42

done this book. Okay, even

9:45

there are hundreds of people out there

9:47

who have spent thousands of dollars for

9:49

your during these things that never ship.

9:53

The. Jobs should be to follow up on

9:55

these. Set a talent A reminder I don't

9:57

care. But. i feel that

10:00

And I realized that this is a kind of an

10:03

impossible mission. There's so much to follow up. There's tons

10:05

of layoffs There's tons of news all the time, but

10:07

this is something where I'll

10:11

feel like Everyone

10:13

is being let down and

10:15

see yes as a show is a problem.

10:17

I think it's problematic for the industry I

10:19

do not think it's good. I don't think

10:21

it contributes At

10:24

least to journalism and I feel like

10:26

the process of following it around Can

10:30

at times lead people in

10:32

a strange place like there was a physical

10:34

keyboard for your iPhone At

10:37

this CS or it was

10:39

like launched around that time what no one revealed in

10:41

the journalist Journalism around this was

10:43

nobody played with this thing Nobody

10:46

actually used it. They just posted the

10:48

picture and said this is cool, which

10:51

is fine But

10:53

at the same time that is valuable

10:55

information the rabbit did you hear about

10:58

the rabbit that wasn't even launched at

11:00

CES They just timed it with CES

11:03

and that thing no idea when it ships No

11:05

real explanation as to what it will do just

11:07

for listeners. You might not know what this is

11:10

the rabbit are one I have no idea what

11:12

this is First

11:14

of all, it had the single worst intro video I've

11:16

ever seen for a product ever Just

11:19

very awkward but it's this little tablet thing

11:21

that connects to your phone and Allegedly

11:23

can connect to all of your apps and

11:26

then you can be like rabbit Take

11:28

me get me an uber home and also

11:31

order me door dash from honey me So

11:33

it arrives when I get that and allegedly

11:35

this thing will

11:37

connect to it and Then

11:42

Do all the things for you now

11:44

you'll also notice from a lot of

11:46

the coverage No one really appears to

11:48

have questioned this and it's insane like

11:51

that drives me bonkers this thing raised

11:53

millions of dollars in

11:55

sales already And

11:58

It just feels like just a tiny. The

12:00

more introspection. Just. A little

12:02

bit more. It's Syria,

12:05

but the Internet of things and

12:07

that twenty eighteen, but twenty twenty

12:10

four comparison now feel. Sorry out

12:12

another level of abstraction between you and

12:14

the task mediated by piece of hardware

12:16

you don't need. right? Yes,

12:20

And it's just like okay. Brilliant.

12:23

Now. Was. Like when is

12:26

the shipping? Who knows there's a bit.

12:28

It has a little three sixty degree

12:30

camera that for some reason will look

12:32

at stuff and then take actions for

12:34

him. The elite. Weird. twenty

12:36

five minute long I think demonstration and launch

12:38

this product with this guy who is not

12:41

Steve Jobs does a Steve Jobs style speech

12:43

and it's pretty bad. hit one point. Turns.

12:46

And looks at this post for recasting

12:48

goes oh hi Rick. Then.

12:50

Holds this rabbit sing up and it

12:53

searches and it takes wait too long

12:55

has this? Bless them for actually being

12:57

honest about the speed at which are

12:59

indexes things but it was very slow

13:01

and it really slowly to sits there

13:03

loading and then it starts playing. Rick.

13:06

Astley Never gonna give you up on the guy. Tons of

13:08

the chemicals, Ha! Did I just

13:10

get rid brought in my own video? And

13:12

yes, that is bordering on exactly how he

13:14

says it's. How is

13:16

this the shit that everyone's going nuts for?

13:18

This is this is bad looking like this

13:20

is. I realize I'm

13:22

in public relations. I hope things reliving. but

13:24

even if I saw a client put that

13:26

crap out our built no, no, let me

13:29

do it. The anyone through it, the any

13:31

what, literally anyone else. Do. This

13:33

because this is

13:35

complete crap. And.

13:38

It us and to your point to be just

13:40

as finest. Yeah, who's this for? How

13:43

is saying something with words to a

13:45

computer less work than just tapping? And

13:47

I just don't know. I also don't

13:50

want to handle that much controls anyway.

13:52

This. This. This.

13:55

Always stuff with see as pisses me

13:57

off. But. Something about this

13:59

one just. Like there wasn't

14:01

really much new. There.

14:04

Really wasn't. And

14:06

it just felt like. There. Are a

14:09

few cool things that the transparent oh lead

14:11

which was fine and cool and good. Everyone

14:13

clap clap Clap Alex Cool. Glad that that

14:15

exists I guess even if there is barely

14:17

know. But. You know all that

14:19

she forgives stuff that doesn't have a point if

14:21

it's cool, but it has to be both. Ask

14:24

me. Both pointless and cool. Yeah, put something can

14:26

be pointless. If. It's cool. If

14:28

it's at a proof of concept that seems that

14:30

the the of see as to me. But.

14:32

The problem is, there was a lot of stuff. It was

14:34

pointless and wasn't cool. His. To some

14:37

sprains. Hold have you been going?

14:40

Ten. Years Now Ten years and you

14:42

know how mad have different was the

14:44

mood? Ten years ago. It

14:47

was the same. It felt the same. It

14:49

felt the same it which is probably good for

14:51

the tech industries. It just felt like this thing

14:53

where everyone was like well i guess I'm here.

14:57

Citizen has that boat his own didn't

14:59

see before like that the year before

15:01

There was genuinely like a Molaison Cs.

15:06

What? It does feel

15:08

like we keep. Wait, Actually

15:11

explain them always. So the

15:13

what the first see as

15:16

after. The. Pandemic waned

15:18

known as independents of a.

15:22

Was very much A It wasn't clear

15:24

whether C S whatever continue like it

15:26

with f one Kind of felt like.

15:29

There's. A degree of i don't know if this

15:31

show is toast or not. I

15:34

think this year it felt like

15:36

it it was, so to speak.

15:39

I think everyone was so happy to have

15:42

a I crap to talk about. A

15:44

good this is. Guess what? Will it though? Who

15:46

goddamn knows He has long as it's got a

15:48

I in the title with can do with acted

15:50

like valuation make some money right? Yeah, It's

15:53

really funny to deflate the last see

15:55

us that I have heard of. My

15:57

last chapter Consumer Tech One vs. Twenty

15:59

Twenty. How. That inside

16:01

out we'll see as I was a weird

16:03

your everyone that set for no for no

16:05

good reason nobody could explore I got really

16:07

serious. put aside no I didn't get covert

16:09

because the way I got sick was know

16:11

anything like when I actually got covert quite

16:13

a while us i got like a massive

16:15

stomach. Bug. But I think

16:17

that was a say because I couldn't go to

16:19

the slopes. I just felt like dying. System casual,

16:22

neuro buyer and air. Yeah, Gsn are just got

16:24

some. Like I just got punished by God. For.

16:26

Attending the South for different going to Las

16:29

Vegas in China. I live my live in

16:31

Vegas so it's actually pretty convinced I see.

16:34

A sad is that he decided to stay at

16:36

home with descendants yeah I get just wo die

16:38

you had a hotel room so good to stay

16:40

in a hotel is to spain in the ass

16:43

the whole thing. Speaking of a I. I

16:45

know this is a. To.

16:47

Show people the sausage was made. We had

16:50

a list of questions but off after a

16:52

sin. It's like a whole bunch of things

16:54

happened. Arms Score! I have to. I have

16:56

to bring some of them up. On

16:58

the pretty dismal mood or have to

17:01

consider to death. By

17:03

Us. You. See the

17:05

story in Reuters about the plummeting.

17:09

Market Cap after the Alphabet Microsoft report for a

17:11

I guess I did. I didn't get a good

17:13

a good look at it, but I'm aware of

17:15

the story. What do

17:17

you think about all this and this part

17:19

of the i have a hype cycle? Ah,

17:22

I have risen. Of sorry. Not.

17:24

Either him. Weldon and I was

17:26

the i was about to be powered and in

17:29

and ask a question three times. So please, whoa.

17:31

My general thing is, I actually think this is

17:33

not from a dime. Know that? I'm

17:35

not technological enough to like program with I I

17:37

said. Covered him for but my

17:40

general feeling is that we might be a

17:42

protein. The limits of what a I can

17:44

actually do. right now. For a while we

17:46

have that massive jump. In. What check

17:48

too busy to don't like that was

17:50

that the initial bump from catchy pretty

17:53

was really something. It's. Like wow,

17:55

this can do stuff though. The.

17:58

times hard to tell what that stuff is But

18:00

I think we're actually approaching a point where

18:04

people might be thinking, okay, now

18:06

what? You keep

18:08

talking about why this is the

18:10

future. Robert Evans of Kulsar Media,

18:12

he quoted someone at CES saying,

18:15

oh, the biggest danger of AI is not being

18:17

on board. But I think people

18:19

are beginning to ask a very simple question, which

18:21

is, what does that mean? What

18:25

is it we are missing out on here? What

18:28

is it that is happening or not happening?

18:31

And I think the answer is not

18:34

that much. I think that there are things

18:36

automate, like there are automations and there are

18:38

some useful use cases for GPT. Fine.

18:42

But I think that companies in general are

18:44

now realizing, oh, shit, this

18:46

doesn't actually, this doesn't solve all

18:48

my problems at all. I've been telling my

18:51

board about this for a while and doesn't

18:54

appear to actually do anything. What's

18:56

that about? Huh. Anyway,

18:59

I'm going to go and sell my stock. But

19:02

it's, and I think

19:04

that these plummeting valuations are the

19:07

real vulture capitalists, types are

19:10

not seeing the savings they wanted

19:12

to. They've not replaced the entire

19:14

workforce. And

19:18

I just think that it has got to the point where

19:21

people are perhaps a little earlier than most

19:23

hype cycles saying, okay, now what's this crap?

19:25

Do why am I excited about this? I

19:28

can I've had enough of the theoreticals. You

19:30

tell me what this thing is going to

19:32

do that changes my life. And it isn't

19:34

doing it. It isn't helping

19:37

evil businessmen replace workers. It

19:40

isn't reliable enough to do that. It

19:43

isn't helping in a

19:46

measurable way with people. And I saw someone

19:48

on Twitter the other day say, oh, well,

19:50

it's the fastest adopted software of all time.

19:52

It's like, okay, but who gives a shit?

19:55

I'm sorry. I really hate to

19:57

sound pessimistic here, but. Do

20:00

something, do something, show me. Why do I have

20:02

to be excited about this shit? Why do I have

20:04

to? Why do I have to- I mean, if I'm

20:06

paid to I will, but... Why...

20:10

Why is the average person excited about

20:12

this? And why is a corporate businessman

20:14

excited about this? What- What ma- What

20:16

about this saves them money or makes

20:18

them money? And the answer is, not

20:20

that much. And indeed, it's quite expensive

20:22

to run. The compute requirements are quite

20:25

high. So

20:27

we're in a shit creek lack of

20:29

paddle situation, I think. I don't- I

20:32

also think that there is a desperation on

20:34

the part of people like Sam Altman, where

20:36

they're realizing, oh shit, this

20:38

doesn't really- this- this- I don't

20:40

really have enough to flog here. I

20:42

am trying to think of why, aside

20:45

from just, you know, the cool

20:47

tech advance aspect of it, why

20:49

the average person would

20:51

be super excited about AI right now. And

20:54

that's the thing, I imagine that there are going

20:56

to be things about it that are actually really

20:59

useful. I know it's inevitable, because

21:01

you've kind of seen this with some of the new

21:03

Galaxy phones, for example, that

21:06

you will have like live translation. And

21:09

you'll have live transcription. That's super useful.

21:11

I think that- I think that that

21:13

will be super awesome and useful. I'm

21:16

not going to- I'm not going to pretend like

21:18

that won't be useful for me and many others.

21:20

That is a direct consumer benefit. I

21:22

think stuff like that's going to be great. Is

21:24

that an entire bloody universe of investments

21:27

that is the new tech infrastructure

21:30

that saves this industry? Probably not. It's

21:34

not. It's not like- because when there was the

21:36

whole- I've gone back to 2010s now- when

21:38

there was the whole like, software as a

21:40

service, boom. The reason that that

21:42

took off, in my opinion, is

21:45

that that was a business

21:47

model plus a way of delivering software and of

21:49

monetizing software. That inherent excitement there was, oh

21:52

shit, there's an actual business model here. It's

21:55

software as a service. You sell by the sea. It's

21:58

become foundational to the tech industry. And

22:02

it's like. Where's.

22:04

That with a I I always just expensive.

22:07

Do you think tech is looking to

22:09

save itself? Yes! I. Think

22:11

Wow. Okay, Rephrase

22:13

the question. Are

22:16

you asking if textron to save itself in

22:19

a good way? Or save itself economically? Economically,

22:22

Yes. I

22:25

kind of don't. I don't know. I care of. It's

22:27

trying to save itself in a good way. Well, it

22:29

it mixes. Don't worry, it isn't. It,

22:33

It's not trying to save itself like

22:35

that's absolutely no what's happening. No problem

22:37

that I'm I think that yes, I

22:40

think that right now there is a

22:42

big I've written about this a few

22:44

times. The I believe Marc Andreessen lead

22:46

to probably more. More deaths

22:48

of more start name one else in. In

22:51

history. He has his

22:53

pushes. The software is he in the

22:55

world model? This. Idea

22:58

that tech stocks were not

23:00

related to actual valuable businesses,

23:02

but more related to. I

23:06

don't know whether it's something night

23:08

and slug and then eventually get

23:10

an acquisition of yeah That model

23:12

has driven take down many doc

23:15

roads and I feel that now.

23:17

Take is trying to find a way to make

23:20

Take valuable again. And a

23:22

I see arrested Lisi Mckay be

23:24

really good for that because the

23:26

actually does something unlike the Metaverse

23:28

or crypto. But. The

23:30

problem is it's expensive. It's.

23:32

Really god damn expensive. And also.

23:35

For want. What's. It

23:37

doing. How's this changing anyone's life?

23:41

How is this helping? Any. So.

23:44

You can come up with little use cases

23:46

and even find ways that. On.

23:49

Inventive cretins can write unassigned

23:51

business coffee at scale. Cool.

23:54

That's great. However, What

23:57

does that do for the average person? The average person

23:59

who. The way and up wrote immolate his

24:01

A kind of about this. The average person

24:04

who's just had takes take a big dump

24:06

on them for a decade. Tech is just

24:08

most take has helped protect his or so

24:10

dramatically. The. Celery, the pace at which

24:12

him they it's and monetize our lives of it's

24:15

person's just seen tech loss and it's size. Two

24:17

years ago. For. Years ago

24:19

I guess the whole Crypto boom, the

24:21

whole of Crypto boom, the matter of

24:23

us boom everyone kind of. I think

24:26

at once saw everyone and take getting

24:28

rich and the things that Take was

24:30

offering. Just didn't exist

24:32

and that of us didn't exist. It was

24:34

all a lie. So many people journalists fall

24:36

for that. Every single person he was wrote

24:38

an incredulous piece about them. Out of us,

24:40

you lead people down a don't pass you

24:42

helped rich people get rich and he did

24:44

not inform anyone. I think that that is.

24:46

That was a big point at which a

24:48

lot of people said, you know what tech

24:50

industry can. Eat

24:52

my ass. Or don't blame anyone. He

24:55

felt like that. Are kind of like a

24:57

as I saw through the khan. And.

25:00

It's just it's frustrating as well because.

25:03

Take doesn't have any interest in

25:05

saving itself. Tech wants to. Make.

25:07

More money and spine whenever it's a business. But.

25:10

A least in the twenty tens. It felt

25:12

like take was making money while making things

25:14

cooler. Or. More fun or

25:16

more capable instead of. More.

25:19

Expensive and more. Told to see. I

25:23

write cyber the since we're going to take a break

25:25

will be right that. In

25:30

a digital love that demands are

25:32

thompson it can be tolerance and

25:34

for those alone won't use the

25:36

financial times things you've. Nicholas and

25:38

independents. Local journalist. So

25:41

you can see more than and farms

25:43

and sentences are. Destined

25:45

to see Jesus read to

25:47

them instead. Fell

25:49

asleep in finance

25:51

and need more

25:53

as T.com/this. Peter.

26:00

Cyber listeners Matthew hear the subsidies brought

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cyber. Alright,

28:16

welcome back cyber listeners. We're

28:18

continuing our conversation with Ed Zittren.

28:22

I want to talk a little bit more about

28:24

what that was like. The, you know,

28:26

I wouldn't say the golden

28:28

days, but how things were before we

28:30

all became, I feel very cynical about

28:32

it all. I'm just thinking back

28:35

to the early days

28:37

of iPhone releases and how

28:39

people would camp out and you'd see on the

28:41

evening news, you know, all of these stories about

28:43

someone being the first person to get the new

28:45

iPhone model, which is, I guess, still a

28:48

thing. No, it's not the same. Yeah,

28:52

and I don't think that's just because we

28:54

buy things online more now. I think

28:57

it's just a general environment thing. I think

29:00

people are just less excited

29:02

about tech because also the pace of

29:04

innovation has precipitously

29:06

dropped. I mean, it's just seeing

29:09

like new things are not as new

29:11

anymore. Computer, the jumps in computer speed

29:13

are not as fast. Yeah,

29:16

Moore's Law plateaus, right?

29:18

You can only make semiconductors so tiny.

29:20

Beyond Moore's Law, though, because

29:23

a great deal of the

29:25

innovations with like the iPhone came

29:28

from software like Siri.

29:30

Siri was kind of wanky, but there's

29:32

still, was still something that

29:34

helped people and that was new and it's got better

29:36

over time. It's dogshit for a while. But

29:39

there were things that you could look at in

29:41

your phone and say this is cool. When Uber

29:43

first started before we, people also were less suspicious

29:45

of tech because tech hadn't really pissed

29:48

off everyone yet. Everyone remembered the.com

29:50

boom, but there was still some

29:52

hope. There was still some excitement, but I

29:54

think people forget that 2010s were

29:56

also full of just like little daggers

29:59

in people. Prism. Of course massive

30:01

government must say a connection from

30:03

almost every company. In.

30:05

Tech. I think that that one kind

30:07

of slowed over people boost the first

30:09

time people realize during that time cloud

30:11

computing was growing. Drop boxes actually I

30:13

believe one of the name pies with

30:15

him prism. Gonna. Send like

30:17

giving gave access to the an essay even

30:20

if they claim it was not for. It.

30:22

Was just for foreign nationals and I don't

30:24

like them being a marathon think most people

30:26

there. But. There.

30:29

Were these kind of subtle upgrades? but the

30:31

new every nuance phone was kind of have

30:33

something you would you. Like they made

30:36

it smaller they minute foster does something cool

30:38

of the camera was much better us now

30:40

each generation as just a small a gap

30:42

has been that small gap for a while.

30:45

And also. Takes.

30:47

Just started slowing up. independent

30:49

entities. Are put this in my

30:51

newsletter. Recently bought Oculus Rift was an independent

30:53

company run by Palmer Lucky Kind of Evil

30:55

or by Massa which. The.

30:57

Ankle facebook and it's like okay and then

30:59

a bit what's up. As twenty four

31:02

thing. Mox. Opal merging

31:04

like Minecraft. I'm reading these off of my

31:06

newsletter because. We. Got

31:08

to see all of these take people get

31:10

rich just as Tech stopped, quite innovating at

31:12

the speed it needed to. And

31:15

also they were. All these promises were promised.

31:17

like flying cars. How many people wrote about

31:19

goddamn flying cars from obe Us Jesus Goddamn

31:21

crime. So angry at last it was Bullock's

31:24

than it is bollocks now and so did

31:26

like he was gonna fly or unstable. Could

31:28

barely get carty these days. Jesus.

31:30

Christ. But. That was

31:32

one. Flying cars. Autonomous cars. Autonomous

31:35

taxis didn't happen. Just. Really?

31:37

Happen. Like it

31:39

still relief. I.

31:41

Don't think people realized it was like a

31:43

desk by thousand cuts thing where innovation slowed

31:45

as scrutiny of tech grow. And.

31:48

So by the time we got to Cambridge and let's

31:50

a car. In. Twenty Fifteen Twenty

31:52

eighteen as a token few years for

31:54

to shake house people will stop they

31:56

they didn't really have as many excuses

31:58

for tech you can. They won. At least

32:00

it did this for me. At

32:04

least A did that for me these. Massive.

32:07

Jumps between generations stopped happening. We

32:09

kind of. Top dow in

32:11

even rock resolution of tv says Forte

32:13

Tv with a semi to point to

32:16

like I mean who thinks of So

32:18

even the latest Playstation X box on

32:20

the Sara Lee said better looking kind

32:22

of. But. It's the

32:24

kind of shift you'd have between graphics

32:26

cards and a P C rather than

32:29

the massive console late. it's foster a

32:31

school. I love them, but. Not

32:33

a huge sleep. And

32:36

I think people really discount how that

32:38

slowdown in innovation plus just. A

32:41

slew of just. Terrible

32:43

stories for tat. I.

32:46

Mean. It's pretty

32:48

bad and then we get to. Be.to

32:52

a point I think what people said

32:54

okay, where's the future without their autonomous

32:56

cars? Oh a Tesla killed. Several.

32:59

People oh Tesla keep it to out on

33:01

Elon. Musk is just lying every two weeks

33:03

and the major is just posting it. Will

33:05

that South's how about virtual reality? Oh this

33:08

makes me feel sick and whenever I try

33:10

and say it makes me feel six the

33:12

person likes the that route is as you'll

33:14

get over it with. No, I

33:16

don't I don't want to pay to feel sick I can

33:19

look in the mirror for for as I. Was watching

33:21

this review of the new Apple had

33:23

said this morning and getting super nonsense.

33:25

like I know that I can't play

33:27

first person video games. I can only

33:30

play like in L. Not yeah no

33:32

games because my my motion sickness. To

33:34

have never heard last on. Yeah,

33:37

I mean less. I haven't lost that

33:39

much. I love we love Crusader Kings

33:42

and I'll I'll leave it at that

33:44

access via and. Yeah,

33:46

it's like. There's

33:50

such a. It's

33:53

it's. like a reality check because

33:55

it feels more substantial than played

33:57

A few emails. The

34:00

report. On the other side of a

34:02

bubble. Or on the other side of a boom. It's

34:05

it's. very weird. It's

34:08

it's. It's. Different than either of those

34:10

things, because it feels like we're We're still,

34:12

we're in the something and watching the indifferent

34:14

creep up on us. right? That's

34:16

it. Yeah, I think that. You're.

34:19

Right in saying it isn't quite a bubble or

34:21

a burst or anything, because. There.

34:24

Are still most of all successful functional tech

34:26

companies. Apple I'm bought the Vision Pro. I'm

34:28

doing one of the first episodes of Better

34:31

Off Offline on that account. like I'm actually

34:33

quite excited about it. I'm still gonna rinse

34:35

it for the things it does wrongs. That's

34:37

what you need to do you love when

34:39

I'm talking about five hundred dollars? Yeah lucky

34:42

cause they five hundred thousand is heavy and

34:44

it these little bearing fruit. but there's plenty

34:46

of stuff to make fun of. Their. Farm.

34:50

Apple by and large makes good products

34:53

that consumers like they've done Some soldiers

34:55

Yes, everyone knows if. Apple

34:57

functional company Samsung relatively functional

35:00

company. Now. They got past the

35:02

Samsung Galaxy Note seven situation. So.

35:05

Ultimate, their nine cents less and simpler

35:07

time, simpler times. But that's the thing

35:09

The Samsung Galaxy Note seven is actually

35:11

great sample of where this kind of

35:14

dreams thoughtful apart because people never thought

35:16

their phones would explode in their luggage

35:18

like that's the thing. And.

35:20

On top of all of this. The

35:23

reason the if he was like we're approaching

35:25

the end of something or the beginning of

35:27

adultery or whatever is because a lot of

35:29

these take companies just made their products west

35:31

Facebook, Instagram worse you I'm sorry. What was

35:34

it last year? Believe had of Instagram when

35:36

out when slight? Well it's actually good that

35:38

you can't see your friends. It's.

35:40

Actually good. You don't wanna see, You want

35:43

to see what I tell you. I need

35:45

to send you a million videos every day

35:47

based on a lot of they are on

35:49

not meant to be taken from you because

35:51

that's how Anniversary Forty Sevens both been Google

35:53

search results for folks for media had a

35:55

piece coming out. That a piece come up

35:58

with. The thing about words like. Google

36:00

results are worse and they do it because they

36:02

want to make more so they can grow eternally.

36:04

A coolness: Erotic ornaments, And.

36:06

I think tech is a. One. Of

36:09

the nasties examples where they just makes

36:11

it worse so that they didn't grow

36:13

faster. Tesla have objective

36:15

li got worse. To.

36:17

Society on though I think is interferences the

36:20

problems that weird we'll they have looks awful.

36:22

decide the truck as a joke. Instead

36:25

of the future and the kind of

36:27

leaders of the future, the overlords of

36:29

the future creating cool shit the we

36:31

have to look forward to shoot. his

36:33

late shit is worse. she does more

36:35

expensive. And I think

36:37

that regular people to see it Now I think they

36:39

just see it. Take combined.

36:42

So. Many things. So.

36:44

Well in like two thousand eight, Lot,

36:46

Two thousand and seventeen. That was when

36:49

it really ended. And.

36:51

Then thing slowed down and got worse

36:53

and I think things like google search.

36:56

All. That is the biggest story and head.

36:58

That. Is the thing that hits the

37:01

most people that has got worse and

37:03

it sucks as well because. Somebody.

37:05

Outlets telling him not gonna say who.

37:09

Are kind of hot. The problem. Everyone. Trying

37:11

to fit their for their affiliate marketing

37:14

schemes their Se O schemes to get

37:16

in there. They. Are

37:18

also part of a problem, but google

37:20

should also. That. Google should

37:22

try and kill the S E O industry,

37:24

but they've only made it worse. Say don't

37:26

care. They don't care about providing results. They

37:28

care about holding their monopoly. Would see why

37:31

they pay Apple billions. And.

37:33

I think people to see it now. People.

37:35

Get was. How many spy? How

37:37

many spam cause of you had to pay you to.

37:41

Either because had any I'd advise have

37:43

not had any not yet last night.

37:45

I know most people don't know. most

37:47

people are getting a bunch of spam

37:49

calls a day goes by by a

37:52

broker spot spokeo in and tell us.

37:55

Who. Have bought and sold or information for

37:57

over a decade and now it's time. Small

37:59

death. Our email accounts, they're

38:02

full of growth hacking

38:04

bullshit. Where we

38:06

have a- Yeah, that's the stuff that I get. We

38:08

get an email from a company

38:11

we saved to get

38:13

10% off of a product we never

38:15

bought 10 years ago. They're still emailing

38:17

us. We hit unsubscribe, they seem to

38:19

still come through. We forget how many

38:21

things. None of the unsubscribe products actually

38:23

work either. People just have got used

38:26

to tech not doing what it says.

38:29

And so, I don't know, maybe

38:31

that might make them feel a little

38:33

bit resentful toward the tech industry. It

38:35

feels like a giant con. And if

38:37

tech wants to change that, perhaps,

38:39

I don't know, make mobile websites, not

38:42

90% ads taking up 90% of

38:44

your screen. I realize I'm ranting

38:46

here. We all feel this though. Yeah,

38:49

this is a very human problem. We're

38:51

all drowning in a river of shit every

38:53

day. And I can't tell you how many

38:56

times I'm on a website or reading something

38:58

on my phone. And

39:03

suddenly, the part that I'm reading is

39:05

gone and it's replaced by a giant

39:08

screen-sized picture of the dog food

39:10

ad. It's pushed the text around. I

39:12

have no idea how to get back to it. I

39:14

just shut the tab down. Yeah. I'm

39:16

not gonna fight it anymore. It happens so often that

39:19

I just, I don't wanna fight it. Yeah, I'm

39:21

using 12 foot ladder more in the

39:23

past two months than I

39:25

ever have before. I

39:29

pay for a Washington Post subscription,

39:32

but due to the fact that there are so

39:34

many data breaches and I've had to

39:36

change my passports on things so many times, I

39:38

straight up can't use it. I

39:40

have to use, like, archive is or 12 foot

39:42

ladder or something to get to the things that I

39:45

pay for because also, I can't find the email account

39:47

it's connected to. And I'm pretty good at tech.

39:50

I know how the computer works, but guess what? The

39:54

internet has turned into the

39:57

world's Biggest shittiest puzzle for

39:59

the average. Person on I

40:01

don't think the tech industry.

40:04

If they might understand and just not care.

40:06

But I also think a lot of them

40:08

don't realize how much it just sucks. It.

40:11

All Sox in a way that's

40:13

every one is feeling and no

40:15

one is talking about enough. And

40:18

that's where better offline comes. And I will

40:20

tell you why I madam perhaps your that

40:22

matters. but seriously, This. Is this

40:24

is a problem. This is the problems

40:26

and I think that. If. The

40:29

tech industry can realize how shitty it's got and

40:31

make a change. Perhaps they can save it and

40:33

guess what they make more money to? I don't

40:35

think that happens to them until they take the

40:37

economic her. Yes, that

40:39

too but they will lay off thousands

40:41

of people first to prove your Sundar

40:43

Pichai a think as fight to launch

40:46

million. Three. Hundred

40:48

million. Insane that

40:50

I laid off. Tens.

40:52

Of thousands before still gets paid says completely

40:54

stupid us All things so bloody stupid when

40:56

I think about it too much of the

40:58

a very upset would especially in you know

41:01

I don't know how deep we want to

41:03

go into this put. Emily, you

41:05

and I are watching our industry be.

41:08

Destroyed by the said. right?

41:11

Wing journalists will still be around,

41:13

things will reform in some way.

41:15

You know where we're recording this

41:17

the day after. Or. What

41:19

was effectively like a tech

41:21

startup version of a. Of

41:24

a newspaper of a of of on my

41:26

magazine was destroyed. Rights.

41:29

Of the messenger gone. Ah not

41:31

always agree website but there was a lot

41:33

of great reporters there that were doing credible

41:36

work in. This has gone. Of.

41:38

We know millions of dollars

41:40

evaporated. Or. Just destroyed to

41:42

set on fire. Mostly. On

41:44

office space. You

41:48

know and that that is a big

41:50

a business but that's not just the

41:52

to attack thing I think the text

41:54

what was going to see his other

41:56

business as was a business industries that

41:58

makes his hundred smart. The of

42:00

industries are trying to take this take stock

42:02

model of raise a bunch of funding than

42:04

spend that money and hope money comes out

42:06

the end despite just Topolski proving that that

42:08

doesn't work to least hundred times. Now

42:11

there's a guy who have one these to

42:13

be angrier apps and because he saints and

42:16

goddamn deal he ran a public. his T's

42:18

run mobile publications their face and fifty million

42:20

dollars and they've gone down the shit Us.

42:22

And the problem is that you can't really

42:24

run a journalistic enterprise like to start up

42:26

you actually defectors. A great example of how

42:28

you can run with these things. But

42:31

the problem is these money men get

42:33

involved. Money men. They come in, they

42:35

say we want to go big and

42:37

the actual answer is no we do

42:39

not. Old Tech Crunch out tech crunch

42:41

back before and Texans just had last

42:43

two. It's disgraceful. It's been laid off.

42:45

some really goddamn great pay for a

42:47

hurry Weber Darren effort to and bombings.

42:49

Just disgraceful. Catherine Shoe. And they did

42:51

this because Rise and Os and the

42:53

whole. Evaluation. Software

42:56

doesn't quite work. But.

42:58

The reason that keeps happening is they can't

43:00

just understand. Sometimes you don't need so many

43:03

people to start with. And if

43:05

you want to go bigger, you get bigger

43:07

based on the right of growth rather than

43:09

assuming that spending the money will in more

43:11

make the growth happen. And it

43:13

all comes back to this addiction to

43:15

growth the American economy as they can't

43:17

build sustainable businesses and journalism itself has

43:20

been looking for a sustainable business model

43:22

for years. Journalism sustainable business models for

43:24

journalism has been a problem I think

43:26

almost the entire time the people than

43:28

selling the news. But. The

43:30

thing is they're all ones that work

43:32

which is build sustainable businesses and make

43:35

sure they don't They don't spend stupid

43:37

money on stupid shit like a bunch

43:39

of office space is just very frustrating.

43:41

It's very frustrating because the people who

43:43

are actually responsible the exact is making

43:45

six seven figures but nothing happens to

43:47

them. Not say anything should but you

43:49

know. Of. Doesn't

43:52

happen for them. Nothing. Ever

43:54

changes. and until those people are run

43:56

out of with Pitchforks. This

43:59

world will contain. You to get darker. Ticket

44:03

book deals on the right. Linked in

44:05

posts about the Wellness. And.

44:09

James Van Fella seem spam fellow

44:12

killed deadspin. Seem. Spam

44:14

salad days they need stern.

44:16

Of, I'm not gonna say thing legal actionable

44:18

okay but it's just. The.

44:21

Poison of Grocer all costs capitalism has go

44:23

into everything and I try not to fall

44:25

into the anti catholic some stuff too much

44:27

because. Very. Clearly hypocritical of

44:30

me to do so. Bump into the water.

44:32

We'll swim them. Like.

44:34

A think it's is to certain extent it's the reality of

44:36

the world that we're and we have to reckon with it.

44:39

Capitalism. I may not not growth

44:41

at all costs capitalism, but you

44:43

can run sustainable businesses. Mama. Casey

44:46

put this way says buy groceries like a

44:48

fire, You can build a sustainable father both

44:50

Swati see warmth or you can throw punches.

44:52

She on a on Oprah really begun and

44:54

die. And. The

44:56

crazy thing is is the stock market

44:58

actually encourages the growth all costs model

45:00

which is insane. There's no reason nice

45:02

company October should exist. For example, that

45:04

that that company's never made a profit.

45:08

The tech industry. His final take Journalism

45:10

specialists finally kind of woken up to

45:12

the fact that someone saying they're a

45:14

bit door. And.

45:16

Profitable is actually Not profitable. What?

45:20

We need to get back to his on our

45:22

building. Businesses that make more money than they spent.

45:24

Snyder. Journalists Defector works really

45:27

well on that model. He get bunch

45:29

of really cool people who write well.

45:31

He give him enough money to pay

45:33

their bills. They. Get out.

45:36

I mean aftermath this the same? They're either

45:38

some amazing people that I is, just. Why?

45:41

Don't get is why node. Remember

45:44

that the I'm. The

45:46

substance Boom with a newsletter? Boom Hell

45:48

of a month? Yeah on my friends.

45:50

How the fuck did nobody noticed that?

45:53

The reason those rules successful. People.

45:55

Are tracy new and pay for.

45:58

People. Like Charlie was all for a bit. People.

46:01

In go to them because they were like

46:03

oh astute esteemed reporter from know They went

46:06

to the because they trusted them. I.

46:08

Went to them because they believe what they

46:10

were saying was valid and thoughtful and true

46:12

and they wanted their opinion about s. Which.

46:14

Is actually kind of more modeling

46:17

how. A. Lot of gray

46:19

outlets have grown tech from screw a lot from.

46:22

The rats lottery is Michael

46:24

Arrington. I. Mean one of the

46:26

best cone or the Wall Street Journal's Christopher

46:28

Memes and have already mentioned joanna stance as

46:30

to who grew the verge out of this

46:32

is my Next which grew out of and

46:34

gadget which grew out of the individual voices

46:36

Them It's. It's insane

46:39

to me because the answer is fairly

46:41

straightforward. It's. Find great people

46:43

with good opinions, interesting opinions,

46:46

good sources and pay them

46:48

and don't. Spend.

46:50

Eight million dollars and goddamn real estate.

46:53

Pay. Them well give them industry. Let

46:55

them do their work. Let them cook.

46:58

Leave. Him alone and sell sponsorships and

47:00

events of that it work for

47:03

tech on for a while Nymph

47:05

Rise and of course of course.

47:07

Decide. To piss All right answer and ton of

47:09

going in circles here. I realized know

47:12

as very frustrating that. This is

47:14

this helps because it makes me

47:16

think again about what they're talking

47:18

about at the beginning of our

47:20

conversation with Access. Because you have

47:23

a lot of people that you

47:25

know personality is my duty, personalities

47:27

and influencers in this space that

47:29

kind of sell that that but

47:32

that also don't necessarily always. Belfort.

47:36

At the same ways that you would accept

47:38

is that you expect attritional journalists to do,

47:40

and that that's something that I actually. Down

47:42

the line I I so with influence

47:44

that Marcus Brownlee for example he's been.

47:47

Very. Friendly to you on must be he

47:49

even he's kind of changed and the reason I

47:51

don't mind that is I know that's his opinion.

47:54

I. Have no illusions about him

47:56

doing now. The. Difference between

47:58

him and like car Swisher for exam the

48:00

is Swisher has been. A

48:02

voice. In. Tech for

48:04

years and grew from having she

48:06

grew her career offers having access

48:08

and getting scopes. When. You do

48:11

that. You have a duty to the reader to

48:13

know. I don't know. Spend

48:15

years. Propping. Up Ilan

48:17

Mosque. including. Never

48:19

fi ings on behalf of journalists like

48:22

Aaron Biba who got harassed by Elon

48:24

Musks cronies, never sang a goddamn world

48:26

word about apps and then turning on

48:28

Elon Musk when he called you an

48:30

Hour South. That. Is

48:32

the problem? We're in excess? Jealous? You

48:34

don't clearly states your axis of you

48:36

don't clearly state you off. Doing this

48:38

for opinion. That. You

48:41

understand your own authority, and you take

48:43

that seriously, and you're clear with what

48:45

your biases may be. I think that

48:47

that's fine, but the problem is. When.

48:50

You have. People. Writing

48:52

blindly about Mark Zuckerberg. so met

48:55

of us. And

48:57

saying this sounds good. That.

48:59

Is nice. Person: Absolutely.

49:01

You need to push back on that. You

49:03

need to push back on the fact the

49:06

Zuckerberg change the name of his company to

49:08

met us and then fears I was like

49:10

in i was a sentence twenty billion dollars

49:12

on this. I'm bored of it now say

49:14

a bit. Late.

49:17

That's. Why people a cynical about said

49:19

though. People. Are

49:21

waking up for this? Regular readers of Be

49:23

know that they. They

49:25

know that they're being misled. They know,

49:27

and they're. They're. Angry.

49:30

The. Other one things to go: well go quietly. They

49:32

don't want to be misled, They don't want to feel

49:34

like they're being said a line of shit and I

49:37

think they are. And. It is is.

49:39

It frustrates me. How

49:41

then do you feel about. The.

49:44

Coverage of this new Apple

49:46

Vision Pro This headset. Such

49:49

a really interesting because so.

49:52

I. on my last newsletter kind of

49:54

talked about this i think it's really

49:56

interesting how you can see the vast

49:59

difference between discover and the

50:01

Apple Watch for example. This

50:04

coverage, it hasn't all been negative.

50:06

It really hasn't. Like Joanna Sturm

50:08

was extremely,

50:11

she was extremely complimentary of several things. Scott

50:14

Stein, CNET, same deal, complimentary,

50:16

talked about the cool stuff, which is fine. But

50:19

there's so much less willing to buy Apple's

50:22

bullshit though. There's so

50:24

much like the Apple Watch. There was a review

50:26

where someone said, oh yeah, but that's the limits

50:29

of the platform right now. You don't get any

50:31

of that anymore for Apple and you shouldn't. You

50:34

shouldn't give a trillion dollar company a,

50:36

oh that's all right, you know this shit's hard. And

50:40

I think that that is the biggest difference. You're really

50:42

just seeing people are not just

50:44

buying what Apple is saying and saying, wow,

50:46

this is amazing with absolutely no

50:49

criticism. Would have happened

50:51

with Steve Jobs. I think Steve Jobs had a

50:53

better hold of the media, but you know what?

50:55

I think it's better that it's like this and

50:57

you've still got plenty of people who are gormlessly

50:59

saying whatever Apple wants them to. Don't get me

51:02

wrong. Plenty of them. There will always be those

51:04

people, but I think you

51:06

were seeing the mainstream media far more willing

51:08

to take a stand,

51:10

not necessarily saying it sucks, but

51:13

they're willing to say this is

51:15

like this has

51:17

real problems. This is too early. I don't know

51:20

what the point of this is and so on

51:22

and so forth. With the Apple watch, you had

51:24

a lot of people who were very much willing

51:26

to just say, oh, but imagine what this could

51:28

be like in the future. Now I'm the vision

51:31

pro now that shit happening anymore. Apple's

51:33

Apple's pissed off everyone too much and

51:35

it sucks because it actually seems like it could be kind

51:37

of cool, but you know what?

51:40

Guess what? If you release something for

51:42

$3,500 at the most depressing

51:44

time in the tech industry in quite

51:46

some time and

51:48

you make it so it's heavy and you

51:50

make it so it's got like 200 apps

51:52

when it comes out. Yeah,

51:55

people are going to be a little bit cynical.

51:57

You should get everything you deserve and more. waited

52:00

but they the growth that all

52:02

cut the rot economy got them they had

52:04

to release this Tim Cook had to do

52:06

it for fear that Apple would not be

52:08

a trillion dollar company forever even though it

52:10

probably will get there and stay there forever

52:12

like it's just it's

52:15

just such a grotesque price point to

52:17

me is it is and I

52:20

say this someone who bought one it really

52:22

is it's ridiculous like I understand why it

52:24

is that price is still a

52:27

utter piss-take like

52:29

come on man thirty five hundred

52:31

dollars that is the price of a

52:33

top-end MacBook Pro yeah and

52:35

I can get your I can get your competitor that has

52:37

a bunch of bunch of stuff

52:39

and is compatible with more computers oh I

52:42

actually will push back on that one really

52:44

don't think I don't think oculus I've

52:47

got a quest nothing which

52:49

question you have the quest to okay

52:53

I think I think it is hot

52:55

dog shit I think the quest is

52:57

a very awkward device I think the

52:59

Facebook login process is awful that does

53:01

sign yes it's and that's the thing

53:03

those are the things that actually bother

53:06

me the most and perhaps that's just me

53:08

being me but also I'm not

53:10

saying oh Apple has no competitors in a compared

53:12

in like a protectors and it's just I feel

53:15

like this device is something different and Apple has

53:17

also done a goddamn awful job doing PR for

53:19

it there are so many questions

53:21

unanswered that they could have pushed they

53:24

should have had I don't know PlayStation remote

53:26

on there they should have had

53:28

these things ready because thought of all the different people

53:30

that spent money on it instead they tried a very

53:32

Apple thing where it's like this is the future here's

53:34

a person walking around an office a thing that no

53:36

one should ever do with a device like this it's

53:40

just very funny because they don't want to

53:42

be competitive with the the

53:44

quest the quest is not a good I don't

53:46

think quest is a good product I'd

53:49

never thought I've I think the big

53:51

boy oculus is a cool but I've always found

53:53

the quest to be weak uncomfortable

53:57

I like it I

53:59

like it because And I've got a background.

54:01

I've done Oculus two, I've done valve

54:04

index. I've done the quest. Wait,

54:07

do you have one? Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm,

54:09

oh, this is, yeah. I'm revealing that I'm

54:11

a VR enthusiast. I've revealed

54:13

I bought a vision pro. I think

54:15

I'm the biggest dickhead on the, on the core. Fair.

54:19

Uh, but being like not the, the index is probably

54:21

the most comfortable and the most interesting to use. And

54:24

it's, you know, I can plug it right into my

54:26

PC and play all kinds of

54:28

different stuff, but I'm tethered. And

54:30

not having being able to spend a couple

54:32

hundred bucks and have the thing that I

54:35

can play beat saber on in

54:37

any room and not be tethered. It's

54:39

like such a big deal. And I will put up

54:41

with a Facebook login to do that. And it not

54:44

cost $3,500. Sure.

54:47

And I think the, I just think that

54:49

different products and it's, but

54:52

this is not your fault, you should not

54:54

be having to, you shouldn't be having to

54:56

justify this. Apple should be. Like

54:59

Apple, you are the customer that that's

55:01

the thing. Apple really

55:03

has got used to shit selling itself and

55:05

the media kind of helping. And I think

55:08

that that era is gone. The

55:10

media has grown quite

55:12

tired of Mr. Cook and his fancy

55:14

party. And I think that, I

55:17

think that people realize what the app store that

55:20

there's another thing that affects average people that sucks

55:22

go on the app store and download five free

55:24

apps guarantee you not one of them is

55:26

actually free. They're free in

55:28

the sense that they will sell

55:31

you microtransactions or sell your information

55:33

to a Chinese bot network. But

55:36

it's very much a, everything

55:39

feels like a devil's deal right now. It's

55:42

just, I keep coming back to this point, but I'm just

55:44

so goddamn tired of, of how

55:46

bad tech has got for the

55:48

average person. The average basic experience

55:51

is just so bad right now.

55:54

What do you think the, the AI stuff

55:56

leads us then in like the next year or two? Do you think

55:59

this all is going to bottom? What would you think we're

56:01

going and live in? Like.

56:03

Inacio. Garbage

56:05

fire of were. As

56:08

you'd use, articles are just feeding each other,

56:10

pushing themselves the top of search. And

56:13

we discussed with that way for a couple

56:15

years. is that not already read but when

56:18

I sing but I celebrated his I think

56:20

things are going to get worse there but

56:22

I think you will see. Google

56:25

turn on a I generated content at some point

56:27

in the next year of to just because at

56:29

some point Google was already a horror show. So.

56:33

I don't expect them to wanted to be

56:36

worse unless they just really don't pass. I

56:38

try not to think to dystopian but yeah

56:40

there is also just stay. There.

56:42

Is a level here? If they could

56:44

just say fuck it, Who cares? I

56:47

think they care deeply. I think they

56:49

care deeply about money and monopolies. And

56:53

I think that. Look.

56:55

If they care deeply, they would not have

56:57

let google get this way like that's that's

56:59

what's pissing me off. It's like. It's

57:02

if they had they would not make

57:04

it so that when I google some

57:06

things there are eighteen different things which

57:08

off noise and sponsored links just affiliate

57:10

content feel. So. If

57:12

I look up a six or something on my

57:14

Mac, there's like four or five different Q and

57:17

A sites that all get. The are mostly a

57:19

guy asking a question and then for people not

57:21

giving an answer the guy sang. Still got this

57:23

problem. Any one. when I help. And

57:26

thus the this is these are all as

57:29

is really something that. I do

57:31

it without comes into new podcast as well

57:33

is that these are the problems that tech

57:35

has. These are the problems that. Journalists

57:37

and nice to be talking about on off too

57:39

much you understand lot the she's the reason the

57:41

butterfly keyboard or fix with the. The

57:44

Are Mac Book that twenties Fifteen

57:46

Sixty Macbook Nick Bilton never been

57:48

a huge fan of Next. Had

57:51

died. But. She is

57:53

the reason the airlines are a little bit

57:55

less stringent with put your phone on. Why

57:57

some of see just proved that it wasn't.

58:00

Case This is the kind of shit

58:02

that matters. This. Is

58:04

the stuff that is truly the pressure on

58:06

Google to make Google not sought is something

58:08

that isn't the hands of journalism right now.

58:11

This. Is something where they can fi s

58:13

because. If the if these stories

58:16

go out. When I wrote the Raw

58:18

Economy last year. I. Had somebody

58:20

bring up man i attend a dim really

58:22

understand what Google sought now. So.

58:24

Many people have these problems. This.

58:27

Is take wants to turn things round.

58:29

Stop making sing sought stop making the

58:32

basic such such sending me random notifications

58:34

from Counts to Five K an app

58:36

I downloaded once and have never used.

58:39

I swear I turn off like.damage for

58:41

patients. But this

58:43

is the think these are the experiences, the people

58:45

I sound a bit nonce I realized book. People.

58:49

Wanna know why people feel disconnected from the

58:51

tech industry? This is why does the tech

58:54

industry feel disconnected from Paypal? I'm

58:57

a circle back to something and William was. You've got.

59:00

No, please go ahead. Ah see said

59:02

you described Palmer Lucky as kind of

59:04

evil. And. I wanted to push

59:06

back on that. I mean he's very

59:08

evil by I couldn't remember why. Has

59:11

he did some? He did some border

59:13

patrol software then they by current owner.

59:15

More than that. Yeah. I

59:18

mean it's at the helm. and helmets. The

59:20

helmets Wild and funny and oh my you

59:22

are. He would.

59:24

Was that the was like a suicide

59:26

home and something on like it was

59:28

something. It's yes it will mean I

59:30

would personally the okay so sir if

59:32

they I'm the guy yes he yells

59:34

the for a Sword Art online threats

59:36

and he he was a He said

59:38

that sword art online was a big

59:40

inspiration for the Aki was that was

59:42

the things he got them. Sword Art

59:44

Online correct against the what's in that

59:46

route. So and believing that small government

59:48

is an issue. This

59:51

is always the way though. Right with with the

59:53

Tor? It's the Torment Nexus tweet over and over

59:55

again. Odd knew they were. They see

59:57

something that if they don't realize that it's a

59:59

cautionary tale. They take a little piece of it they're

1:00:01

obsessed with and they make it a reality And then

1:00:04

when the problems that were in the fiction crop

1:00:06

up they say oh damn fuck, you know Whoops,

1:00:09

uh, wait Just

1:00:12

and but also he didn't even the whole thing

1:00:14

was sort of online other than it would kill

1:00:16

you is it was a good Game in the

1:00:18

anime. So that's the thing. They don't ever do

1:00:20

the first part of the torment Nexus where the

1:00:22

experience is cool Very

1:00:25

unfair very nasty, but it's it's

1:00:29

it's funny as well because These

1:00:32

guys they when even when they try and

1:00:34

do the torment Nexus stuff. They're so lazy

1:00:36

about it He didn't even did he ever

1:00:38

make that suicide helmet. He ever actually pro.

1:00:40

That's the thing. How do you prototype that

1:00:42

also? Well, you certainly

1:00:45

took a picture of one that he'd prototyped and

1:00:47

put it on and put it online as he

1:00:49

thought about using it Not

1:00:52

not actionable just a question it

1:00:55

was a I imagine a remembrance

1:00:58

of how he made his money That

1:01:02

was what it was for him People have

1:01:04

ever been happy for a moment in their lives

1:01:06

ever They have so much money

1:01:08

and they could just do anything you can go online

1:01:10

and you can watch At

1:01:13

least 50 different Queens of the Stone

1:01:15

Age concerts in full go and

1:01:17

do that for a minute pama You're fucking idiot.

1:01:19

Don't like none. These people have fun. Then these

1:01:21

people Tim Cook seems to be the

1:01:26

Closest thing to like happen Mark Zuckerberg is all

1:01:28

there was that period where he was fighting all

1:01:30

the time and he looked so happy Like

1:01:33

genuinely happy. He was like and perhaps that's because

1:01:35

he was like I fun Well, actually I have

1:01:37

a theory about the fighting thing I think he

1:01:39

likes it because it's the only time he feels

1:01:41

human because his money doesn't matter flesh

1:01:44

and bone Like

1:01:47

it's very I imagine that there's an equalization there I

1:01:49

would love to talk to Mark Zuckerberg about that but

1:01:51

he the other questions I had might make him upset

1:01:53

That's why he that's why he grows his own food.

1:01:56

I think in that shit like weird He

1:01:58

wants to hunt it because it's the only way that You can

1:02:00

feel connected to anything. Anymore

1:02:03

he's like going back to

1:02:05

basics very basics. Are we

1:02:07

gonna think that he's been to become when it

1:02:09

is like you know, anti sue people pretty soon

1:02:11

so to conceal their food is milling around. Aren't

1:02:13

I showered? I only. Yeah.

1:02:16

That's my prediction for the rest. The

1:02:18

twenty twenty four seven, you picked up

1:02:20

enough money and enough time when you're

1:02:22

bored. Enough are all things are possible.

1:02:25

I wish he for a long mosque. And

1:02:27

we've been so cool. You to be

1:02:29

my dream. Oh Texas, a zoo by

1:02:32

both all over again. Remember that from

1:02:34

something awful? Yes I do. I look

1:02:36

very much. stairs in your house? I

1:02:38

guess I'm but. I. Think the

1:02:41

just. That's

1:02:43

the thing is well these people are

1:02:45

also so joyless. Jeff Bezos is the

1:02:47

close. It was not guys evil though

1:02:49

like when he went into space and

1:02:51

he was just like yep this one

1:02:53

goes as old as amazon voters that

1:02:55

made this possible that see a bit

1:02:57

some gonna space. Seen

1:03:00

as a suing I think he's a he

1:03:02

was braced Lex Luthor. But

1:03:04

I saw he just he just got

1:03:06

jokes down and now he just walks

1:03:09

around doing interviews and legs friedman. Wanted

1:03:13

that. The fact that that is the

1:03:15

top tech podcasts are so depressing. But

1:03:17

done. These people are like fun rents.

1:03:19

Even Musk has more money than any

1:03:21

one and he's chooses instead to go

1:03:23

online and be like. Well. As

1:03:25

a woke nurses loud one billion

1:03:27

immigrants come in every day And

1:03:29

added that Susie and. He. And

1:03:31

milestone response was saying like exactly And it's

1:03:34

just that is is Joyce. He could do

1:03:36

anything. He could proceed gold boat into another

1:03:38

gold boat and defiance and he chooses to

1:03:40

be on. None of these people actually approximate

1:03:43

the human race. And. It's.

1:03:45

Maybe. That's maybe things like this. Maybe they just

1:03:47

don't. They have someone to google stuff. They have

1:03:50

a guy who cost them a million dollars a

1:03:52

year who is Google for them. To.

1:03:55

Sad is if they don't have to google

1:03:57

they're not. I know. Tick tock tick tock.

1:03:59

Having. You know go through table

1:04:01

as. To Like Video et cetera

1:04:03

that Toadies just like survives brought

1:04:06

you another meme. I

1:04:08

see that is kind of war even

1:04:10

must deaths. he just gets like the

1:04:12

guys with like doug greet statues. Could.

1:04:14

Like Hitler, enjoy a twelve who send

1:04:16

him us some very j pay isn't

1:04:19

compress J peg that he posts later

1:04:21

on that day. it's like that says

1:04:23

toadies. Don't. Help. it's pre deep

1:04:25

fried for yes exactly. He's really good. You

1:04:27

could really sets the that's the thing is.

1:04:29

Well, I think we're also seeing these people

1:04:32

who they really are now. Journalism.

1:04:34

Has actually really I it. Has

1:04:36

actually improve the scrutiny of these people in

1:04:39

there were things you see the A Life

1:04:41

Goal takes is Jeff Bezos. Strangely.

1:04:44

Horny fellow. no I haven't I don't know

1:04:46

the story was texting someone was no is

1:04:48

do I owe them a reason we make

1:04:51

us when the the Saudis got a of

1:04:53

a share of the girls. okay here these

1:04:55

tax and Skyn to read these to you

1:04:57

please. Very different. great. I. Love

1:04:59

you a life goal.dot.i will show you

1:05:02

with my body. I. Want to smell

1:05:04

you. I want to breathe you when. You.

1:05:09

Know. As funny as yeah, well as funny

1:05:11

as the Sony bow on a an Elizabeth

1:05:13

Holmes textile season hurt his eyes. This.

1:05:17

These ones are actually important books such as

1:05:19

read this to on discounters. This

1:05:22

was an Lcs and rebel to some

1:05:24

of his. yeah this is just pure

1:05:26

till posting energy. Okay homes you are

1:05:28

the breeze and desert for me. my

1:05:30

water and ocean meant to be only

1:05:32

together Tiger. For. Wanting. Okay,

1:05:37

But as the thing with seeing these people for who

1:05:40

they are and they're pathetic. These. Rich,

1:05:42

powerful take people's behind the

1:05:44

curtains, the boring that empathy.

1:05:46

they don't enjoy anything, they

1:05:48

have more money than anyone

1:05:50

should, and the miserable. Miserable.

1:05:54

The. Directionless he on musk should

1:05:56

be happy. Money can buy you

1:05:58

happiness when you have. The aliens.

1:06:00

I refuse to argue. Come on, give it to me.

1:06:02

I'll be happy Happy Fine. And.

1:06:05

You. Look at this guy and he hasn't figured out

1:06:08

ship. Or to be a h

1:06:10

from a guy. Fantastic Mutual might put about

1:06:12

this of plagiarism. The a lot plagiarism are

1:06:14

just trying to be someone else. They want

1:06:16

to assume their lives and seamless because these

1:06:18

people people who make great stuff seem to

1:06:21

figure it all out. I think of law

1:06:23

take people. People.

1:06:25

Of kind of. Given the take

1:06:27

overlords a bit of space they've understanding for

1:06:29

the massive wealth and power they had. Because

1:06:33

these people will create and to share and

1:06:35

they seem to leave leave these cool lives

1:06:37

Now we have these pictures of what elon

1:06:39

musk with Rom Emanuel I think where he

1:06:42

looks like. Baron. Hall

1:06:44

conan from June. We.

1:06:47

Have these all could takes. We.

1:06:49

Avoid. Sam. Altman.

1:06:52

Who's. Just very strange. And.

1:06:55

He got ousted from a board and

1:06:57

then everyone posted like some supper modi.

1:06:59

So whatever. I forget what they did

1:07:02

everything to. seems like a lame fucking

1:07:04

told no one's doing any cool billionaire

1:07:06

stuff. Peter Thiel loves plot. I guess

1:07:08

he destroyed Gorka these the tenth Marc

1:07:11

Andreessen. He and I am not. I

1:07:13

am actually quoting something. He said he

1:07:15

lot of things Twenty Twenty Two You

1:07:18

in an interview said our be reading

1:07:20

a lot of comprehensive biographies of Hitler

1:07:22

exists. These are the rich guys. That's.

1:07:25

Not fun. These aren't cool celebrities we

1:07:27

can look up to. They've.

1:07:30

Sprains his widow like they did. That

1:07:32

we're they would be weird if they didn't have the

1:07:34

money. And it's just. All. Of

1:07:36

our Super Villains feel like the came

1:07:38

from discontinued comic book lines. Yeah.

1:07:41

Like really like edge Lord ones.

1:07:43

Jam. Or something

1:07:45

that but there was a kickstarter of

1:07:48

in disguise didn't fully funded. Yes,

1:07:52

Lord Boy. about

1:07:56

our snow i mean i

1:07:59

personally i a download

1:08:01

ending on a podcast. As per

1:08:03

usual. That is usually the direction

1:08:05

I try to steer things. That's

1:08:07

right baby. Misery loves dancing.

1:08:12

Where can people find your newsletter

1:08:14

and the new podcast when it goes

1:08:16

live? You can find me at where'syoured.at

1:08:18

for the newsletter or betteroffline.com. The show

1:08:21

is not out until the 21st of

1:08:23

February. I do not have the link

1:08:25

yet, otherwise, but it will be on

1:08:28

betteroffline.com. You can find me on Twitter

1:08:30

at zitron.bsky.social, I believe, on Blue Sky,

1:08:32

which I much prefer to

1:08:35

x slash rate my nudes dot biz. And

1:08:39

yeah, I'm looking forward to the first episodes will drop on

1:08:41

the 21st. We've got a lot of fun

1:08:43

stuff coming. Really

1:08:45

excited, actually. It's one of the coolest things I've ever

1:08:47

worked on. Your cool

1:08:49

zone media is great. And

1:08:52

a big shout out to Sophie and Rob

1:08:54

over there, Gar as well. I mean, they've

1:08:56

been incredible. Those people, some

1:08:58

of the best people I work with. And

1:09:01

thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure.

1:09:03

Yeah, thanks so much. Thank

1:09:28

you. Hey

1:10:36

y'all, I'm

1:10:43

Taryn Finley, host of a new podcast

1:10:46

from HuffPost called I Know That's Right.

1:10:49

Each week, I'll be taking you on a ride

1:10:51

where mainstream media in the depths

1:10:53

of internet culture collide. And by a

1:10:55

rotating cast of friends and guests, we'll

1:10:57

be breaking down the weekly what's what and

1:10:59

who's who of pop culture. You need to

1:11:02

show to separate some of the stuff that

1:11:04

makes you say, I know that's right. Don't worry

1:11:06

girl, I got you. Check out I

1:11:08

Know That's Right wherever you get your

1:11:10

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