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to your doctor today about Rapatha. Hi, everybody.

0:56

I'm Josh Mankiewicz, and we are

0:58

Talking Dateline. And today, our guest

1:01

is Keith Morrison. Hi, Keith. Hello,

1:03

Josh. How are you today? Okay.

1:06

That was great. What do I say? I say hello. You

1:09

said hello, Keith. I said hello, Josh. It's

1:12

starting right away.

1:14

This episode is called The Sisterhood.

1:16

Now, if you haven't listened to it or

1:18

if you haven't watched it on television, the

1:20

link to the episode is in the description

1:22

to this episode. So go there, listen to

1:24

it. You can also watch it on TV

1:26

or stream it on Peacock and then come

1:29

back here. Now, today, Keith has a clip

1:31

that he's going to play for us, interviews

1:33

that did not make the episode. And

1:35

then later, we will answer some of your questions about

1:38

this broadcast from social media. So stick around

1:40

for that. All right. Here we go. Keith,

1:43

what are you talking about? It really

1:46

is quite a journey, at least in the

1:48

mind of the viewer of

1:51

Bob from kind of like, you

1:54

know, good guy husband to

1:56

sort of hapless loser who can't

1:58

really hold hold a job to,

2:00

you know, widower

2:03

to possible murderer.

2:05

No one will hear you if

2:07

you scream. I mean, you know,

2:09

he's going from Fred Flintstone to Hannibal Lecter.

2:12

There is a character who appears often in

2:14

fiction, uh, and more often than we would

2:16

like to think in real life as well.

2:18

And that character is one who puts on

2:21

a pretty good impression in the first place

2:23

and can don all kinds of disguises. But

2:25

when it comes right down to it, he's

2:28

a selfish person who really is not

2:30

very ambitious about working on supporting a

2:32

family. He just wants stuff. And

2:35

that appears to have been what this, this situation

2:37

was. He doesn't clean out the garage. He just

2:39

pretends to clean out the garage. He doesn't go

2:41

to work really. He just kind of keeps

2:44

a job enough that he can say he

2:46

works. And at the

2:48

same time, he is a very controlling individual

2:51

in the marriage. I want my candy. I

2:53

want my girls. I want to have something

2:55

going on outside the marriage. And so even

2:57

after he murdered her, even

2:59

after he was on bail awaiting

3:02

trial, he was, he

3:04

was going for bicycle rides around the neighborhood where

3:06

he wasn't supposed to be going and having dates

3:08

with people. Among all the horrific

3:10

things that Bob was proven to have done

3:12

and then also alleged to have done, I

3:16

have to say that using grief counseling

3:18

as a place to hook up with

3:20

people would for me

3:22

fall very near the top of the list. Taking

3:25

advantage of people who are really, and they're

3:28

worst. Yeah. Well,

3:30

and all, you know, when you know

3:32

what happened back at the beginning, which

3:35

was that he killed her and then

3:37

he was going to a kind of

3:39

a religious school and

3:42

talking to people who run

3:44

the religious school and

3:46

picking up his children

3:48

and bringing them home from school, he

3:51

was able to hide himself during

3:53

those occasions and nobody knew

3:55

otherwise. Right. He then put

3:57

on a show and his 911. call

4:00

that that's one

4:02

thing that the initial responders

4:05

were a little suspicious of. One,

4:08

two, three, four, five,

4:10

six, seven, eight, nine,

4:13

four, five, seven, eight. Help

4:15

is on the way, sir. That's

4:17

one thing I want to talk about

4:20

is that 911 call. I

4:23

thought it was great the way you play it

4:25

at the beginning, and then at the

4:27

end you do the analysis of it with people

4:31

who have listened to it sort of more carefully.

4:33

He sounds like

4:35

he's calling for help, but he's really talking about

4:37

himself, which

4:40

I thought was interesting. He's

4:42

using that, he's using his

4:45

hysteria as a way of covering

4:47

the fact that he's not actually doing anything.

4:49

It reminded me a little bit of

4:52

the IVF doctor that you did the

4:54

story about. A little bit, although the

4:56

IVF doctor put on his, if

4:58

he made an error in that 911 call, at

5:02

least one that made people suspicious, it was that

5:04

he adopted too much of

5:06

the examination

5:09

room attitude. My

5:11

patient, I'm a doctor and

5:13

I'm going to keep my cool. Mom's

5:15

hysterical, but he's not actually doing anything. No, he actually

5:17

wasn't doing anything. As

5:20

we now know, those bruises on her body came

5:22

from some other activity altogether.

5:25

And again, if we're

5:27

to believe prosecutors, and

5:30

clearly the jury did, then she

5:32

was already dead at that point, not dying,

5:34

not breathing her last. She was already

5:37

gone at that point. In which case- She

5:39

had been gone for some time. In

5:42

which case Bob did not, I mean, again, if

5:44

you're going to sell the idea that you are

5:47

trying to bring this person back, this person you have just

5:49

killed, you're going to have to do a better job of

5:51

it than that. That is true. You

5:54

had great interviews in this. I mean, the sisters were great,

5:57

her friends were great. I thought the stuff was great. about,

6:00

you know, the dress, which they sort of

6:03

loaned back and forth, the sisterhood of the

6:05

traveling dress. I thought that was something.

6:08

And the detective, I thought was

6:10

terrific. Because he

6:12

felt it just like everybody else did. He

6:15

carried that case around with him for a

6:17

long time. And I

6:20

think it bothered him more deeply

6:22

than I may have realized when

6:24

we began to talk. Yeah. And

6:26

Susan McBride, who, you know, I think Bob

6:28

thought, you know, okay, well, that's didn't work out. I'm never

6:31

going to hear from her again. And

6:33

she ends up like sort of driving a stake in

6:35

it. Oh, yeah. She was the she

6:37

was absolutely the key to the case. Without

6:40

her, it wouldn't happen. But

6:42

again, you know, it's the

6:44

happenstance of things, right? Is

6:46

she just, you know, not kept in touch with the

6:49

home front? If she went off to Italy,

6:51

would she ever have known about this? Would she

6:54

ever have contacted anybody? Maybe

6:56

something made her want to investigate Bob a

6:58

little bit more after, after the

7:00

way he behaved, right? Now, plenty of women

7:02

would just have thought, okay, that guy's a

7:04

loser. I'm going to block him on social

7:06

media. I'm going to ignore his emails. And

7:08

I'm going to move on to somebody else.

7:10

I'm not going to look him up. I'm

7:12

not going to discover that he's married. I'm

7:14

not going to even have any debate about

7:17

whether or not to contact his wife. But

7:19

she did all of those things. Yes.

7:23

This woman figured out he was a cat

7:25

after all. Called the wife and blew the

7:27

whistle. She thought she was doing a

7:29

good thing. And then she went away. And

7:32

when she came back, she discovered that the

7:34

victim had died that very day. And

7:36

it hit her like a Mack truck, as

7:39

you can imagine. Like I called, I made

7:41

that call. I talked to that woman. And

7:44

in a matter of hour or two later, she's

7:46

dead. And so, yes, that's something that Susan has

7:48

carried around with her. At

7:51

the same time, it was

7:53

her testimony that made

7:55

the difference in convicting him. The

7:58

woman who was terribly attacked. by

8:00

Bob. That was a great interview. Was it

8:02

difficult to get her to tell that story?

8:04

She was reluctant, yes. But

8:07

she thought about it for a time and realized that it

8:09

was an important story to tell in

8:11

order to be able to get justice, get it

8:13

done, and put this guy

8:16

behind bars. These things are important in the

8:18

end, and often women, in

8:20

the experience of doing these stories, will

8:23

tell us, tell me, I'm sure they tell

8:25

you, that somehow they feel like

8:28

they can't really do anything. Like they

8:30

are powerless in the face of somebody who is

8:33

taking advantage of them or

8:35

abused them, and doesn't matter what

8:37

they say, it's not going to make a difference. But

8:39

it does. And this is

8:41

one of the stories that indicates

8:43

it truly does make a difference. When

8:46

we come back, we have more from Keith's

8:48

interview with former prosecutor Gail

8:50

Strack and former attorney Casey Gwynn.

8:59

I'm shocked, you know? They were always

9:02

such a good team. So

9:04

successful. But to

9:06

do something like that, to

9:09

exceed their budget? While

9:12

being over budget might not be a crime,

9:14

it can disrupt workflows. With monday.com, you and

9:16

the team can be sure that you're all

9:18

in sync. All the data, latest

9:21

updates, files, and budgets are visible to everyone,

9:23

so you won't miss a thing. Tap the

9:25

banner to go to monday.com. Whether

9:31

you're a morning person or a bedtime

9:33

procrastinator, everyone deserves a mattress that works

9:35

for their style. And you'll find the

9:37

best mattress for you at Ashley.

9:39

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9:41

Ashley brings you one-of-a-kind body conforming

9:43

technology, making every sleep tailored to

9:45

be your best. The collection also

9:47

features cool-to-the-touch covers and motion absorption

9:50

to help minimize sleep disruptions from

9:52

partners, pets, or kids. Shop the

9:54

all-new Tempr Adapt Collection at Ashley

9:56

in-store or online at ashley.com. Ashley

9:59

for the live. I'm a home. So

10:07

I guess my first question

10:09

about this is sounds. Did

10:11

this. Das. Go

10:13

down as anything other than suspicious from

10:15

the get go because it feels like

10:17

it took a long time to sort

10:20

of build suspicion about this. It seems

10:22

like they just get a bought it

10:24

from the beginning bought Bob Story. Those.

10:27

Disgusting. A long time to get

10:29

to trial to get to conclusion

10:31

of seven years was the process

10:33

Between the time she was killed

10:35

in the time it was an

10:37

urn resolved. They. Thought he behaved

10:39

a little odd way. From. And

10:41

a sudden boy, their lot of abrasions and

10:44

things on her body. But.

10:46

That makes because he dragged her out of

10:48

the shower and took her into the middle

10:50

of the room and he was giving a

10:53

Cpr. The medical examiner who who did the

10:55

autopsy. Could. Not find the cause of

10:57

death threat us to talk to his oh obvious

10:59

sign of strangulation for example there was no obvious

11:01

sign of and that route. Blunt

11:04

Object force to. Killer.

11:07

So. They just didn't know for sure. That.

11:10

Detective was always kind of suspicious any

11:12

kind of kept at it. But.

11:15

He was unable to move against against your

11:17

husband because he didn't has a medical examiner

11:19

onside. It was an indication of was actually

11:21

a homicide so he couldn't jersey I. I

11:23

think that the issue a was of the

11:25

medical examiner who looked at the body initially.

11:27

It was not. Term. Experienced and

11:29

seen a sort of thing before. And

11:32

didn't recognize that was potentially some

11:34

of. Strangulation. Case and

11:36

and not from Mercy. Then.

11:39

When they went and hired the experts in

11:41

these matters. And he came in

11:44

and he looked at the photographs, you saw

11:46

all the abrasions and the bruises on the

11:48

body and he said well yeah, you could

11:50

get them from, you know, excessive Cpr are

11:52

being dragged out of a. Out

11:54

of a shower the had a sharp live on

11:57

it but you can also get them from somebody

11:59

kneeling on. Body and and I'm choking to

12:01

death. While. The interesting things

12:03

about this incident know. That

12:06

initial determination. By.

12:08

Law enforcement or by a coroner,

12:10

medical examiner, Terry.

12:12

So much weight in so many

12:14

these cases that we've covered and

12:16

everything sort of cascades from. That's

12:18

whether it's. The allows them

12:20

weight of innocence or the weight of guilt

12:23

she has a system is the system as

12:25

front loaded not interesting way and it and

12:27

but everything takes so long. The

12:30

initial determination is so wait, he

12:32

is so important. That. It

12:34

takes a long long time to undo

12:36

that to see a case on the

12:38

other side. is that happen in this

12:40

case for sure was such a month

12:43

of training Institute for strangulation Prevention. I've

12:45

never heard of them before. Adjectives come

12:47

across them and tell me a little

12:49

bit more about that are victims sister

12:51

who located that those people. When

12:53

we're doing the story and heard about them. And

12:56

they haven't be having a conference on far

12:58

away from were. Both

13:00

producer and I live. And

13:03

that's where that interview came from that

13:05

you will see in addition to the

13:07

material here. It's group

13:09

of scientists who recognize that. Medical.

13:12

Examiner's. And most

13:14

prosecutors most people in local law enforcement

13:16

in the country. Are only

13:19

aware of you know one very specific

13:21

kind of the injury from the strangulation

13:23

Been they miss a lot. Busier

13:25

like. A good place to were. Listen.

13:28

To this extra sound. Viewers.

13:30

Who the full video of this? you can sit on our

13:33

website. As an interview with

13:35

the former prosecutor, deal struck and

13:37

former attorney Casey Gwen and they're

13:39

talking about the Training Institute of

13:42

Strangulation to be Learned from. Sources:

13:45

Know that. a training institute on

13:48

strike ls and prevention access started

13:50

family ninety ninety five cheesy put

13:52

me in charge of the domestic

13:54

violence in it we had two

13:56

teenagers both of them had been

13:58

soaked before they killed. Neither

14:00

case got prosecuted and it really

14:03

changed my life personally. And ever

14:06

since then we've been trying to figure out what

14:08

happened, can we make it better, and can we

14:10

make it right? Strangulation

14:12

has been missed for decades and decades

14:14

in this country. There's no black eyes,

14:16

there's no broken bones, and we didn't

14:18

understand that for almost 30 years in

14:21

our work as prosecutors

14:23

and as social change advocates. But

14:26

the other thing we didn't understand

14:28

is that men who strangle women

14:30

are not the same as men

14:32

who push or slap or punch

14:34

women. If you go after stranglers

14:37

before they kill, you're getting the

14:39

killers before the victim is

14:41

dead. Our work has prevented

14:43

homicides in San Diego, in

14:46

California, and across America. That

14:50

is certainly provocative. The

14:52

idea that strangling is a precursor

14:56

to domestic violence, which is in

14:59

one form or another so many Dateline episodes

15:01

and so many stories that we cover. The

15:04

idea that they have prevented

15:06

deaths was just something I wouldn't ever

15:08

have considered. Maybe you discover

15:11

a reason for death that you

15:14

weren't aware of. That seemed

15:16

obvious, but to prevent them, well,

15:19

I guess so. There's an assault on

15:21

a woman, and if she is able

15:24

to report what happened to her and they can have a

15:26

proper look at the

15:29

medical indicators, they can

15:31

stop that person. One

15:33

of the things I really like about this episode

15:35

is I always like it

15:37

when we can sort of take our

15:39

eyes off the actual story that we're

15:41

telling and do something a little bit

15:43

bigger. In this case, I'm sort of

15:46

talking about domestic violence and strangulation and

15:48

the whole issue of controlling

15:50

men like that and where

15:53

that can lead. Well, thank you, Josh, but it

15:55

does go to the heart of what you and

15:57

I do and have been doing for years, which

15:59

is... As we set out

16:02

to do these kinds of crime stories,

16:04

we came to understand that these

16:07

are stories of abusive,

16:09

largely of abusive

16:12

husbands or abusive men who

16:14

are damaging women. And

16:17

it's unfortunately very common. If

16:20

you or someone you know is experiencing

16:22

domestic violence, you can call

16:24

the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE.

16:30

After a break, we will be back to

16:33

answer some of your questions from social media.

16:42

I was shocked, you know. They

16:44

were always such a good team. So

16:46

successful. But

16:48

to do something like that, to

16:51

exceed their budget? While

16:54

being over budget might not be a crime,

16:56

it can disrupt workflows. With monday.com, you and

16:58

the team can be sure that you're all

17:01

in sync. All the data,

17:03

latest updates, files, and budgets are visible to

17:05

everyone, so you won't miss a thing. Tap

17:08

the banner to go to monday.com. Whether

17:13

you're a morning person or a bedtime

17:15

procrastinator, everyone deserves a mattress that works

17:18

for their style. And you'll find the

17:20

best mattress for you at Ashley. The

17:22

new Tempr Adapt Collection at Ashley brings

17:25

you one-of-a-kind body conforming technology, making every

17:27

sleep tailored to be your best. The

17:29

collection also features cool-to-the-touch covers and motion

17:32

absorption to help minimize sleep disruptions from

17:34

partners, pets, or kids. Shop

17:36

the all-new Tempr Adapt Collection at

17:38

Ashley in-store or online at ashley.com. Ashley,

17:40

for the love of home. All

17:45

right. Let's

17:48

look at some questions from social media. Joy

17:51

Gimble says, chilling story. I pray those

17:54

kids are getting therapy to heal from

17:56

years alone with their toxic father. Well,

17:58

you know. We're not

18:00

going know for a long time serves. What?

18:03

The fall out of this is that's one

18:05

of the problems with this. He right alone

18:08

There there is a support group. Around

18:10

those children am happily. So.

18:13

As a to they're probably better off than many

18:15

other children are in some a success as. Somewhere.

18:19

Already talking about doctor. Linden.

18:22

P. says. Just.

18:26

Listen to this episode as a the

18:28

investigation was shoddy to Fentanyl Patches manner

18:30

blood they must have been placed on her

18:32

after death was none in the blood.

18:34

One of them. Major. Red

18:36

flags. You know, poor

18:38

works. By. By all

18:40

in all, it does. It

18:44

clearly did that in

18:46

Allahabad. Yes, Yes! Those.

18:48

Who he is it is a fair

18:51

point and the sentinel patches were a

18:53

tell. That should have said them off

18:55

in a different direction right off the bat. A.

18:57

You don't' I don't take a shower

19:00

with Tyson was amazon your body and. I

19:03

do want to say this, which

19:05

is frequently. When we do

19:07

these stories and it takes a very

19:10

long time to try somebody. Ah,

19:12

I'm. We

19:15

can say or it can be

19:17

said that the delay. You

19:19

know, Didn't. Really have

19:22

any result. It didn't matter but enjoy

19:24

anybody else in the interim, they did

19:26

eventually gotta go to prison for killing

19:28

their wives or husbands, but in this

19:31

case that's not true. That delay allowed

19:33

Bombs Album to do some terrible things.

19:36

Sure, And could have been

19:38

more terrible the we could have had

19:41

a repeat of that term as a

19:43

reason that he was on trial. I'm

19:45

girl that Jay says good for uses

19:47

and retaining those emails from Nasty Bob

19:49

Zalman Yeah, I'm. Good

19:52

for her. Again, like it. There's

19:54

there would be ample reason and

19:56

precedent, and no one would ever

19:59

wonder if. The just thought no.

20:01

Such. As a loser like as a jerk

20:03

such as a liar I know like the

20:05

way exaggerated or yeah I would guess as

20:07

it i'm done with you forever instead see

20:09

sort of you know kept going dug into

20:12

what. A good for. Well.

20:14

Here's somebody who wrote an awkward swim

20:17

with Bob Feldman is my new band

20:19

names. It does that that both have

20:21

a great does. A great

20:23

posturing to and I have to say

20:26

now A just shows you have you

20:28

ever Pools: The level lot of friends. Sure,

20:31

Pool in Denver and and and places like

20:33

that especially there and close many pools. His.

20:36

Zero. Right around where you live

20:38

or jones. Knowledge. It's

20:41

it's. one big pool here in California. I

20:44

hope. You

20:47

probably do. You do, probably cleaning it

20:49

this morning, aren't you? I

20:52

see you with all of that as a big

20:54

long thing for single leaves out of there and

20:56

holding the glass of wine while you're in the

20:58

other hand while you're doing it saying you know

21:01

that would be perfect when it. Is

21:03

only some of the pool I saw

21:05

it. I have something that

21:07

I've got for you that I keep

21:09

waiting to. See. One person's

21:12

identity of it's a

21:14

fabulous wine glass. Which.

21:17

Oh my mailbox of the voice for high that

21:19

so that people can see it a little better.

21:22

Their. It's got. It's got

21:24

your look in Saskatchewan. it

21:26

measures pretty good. I wouldn't

21:28

say there's a or any new as as

21:30

it says here. An ordinary

21:32

glass of wine. Or.

21:35

Was it or was And so this is

21:37

gonna be yours someday When the when next

21:39

we mean three times as advices. Been waiting

21:41

for you for a long time. I've been

21:43

meaning to give this to you and and

21:45

I never see you so how are you

21:47

know? Arranged to get to see transferred. To.

21:51

Lose. Maybe. Just do with

21:54

the one the producers. As

22:00

always, it's been

22:02

a pleasure. And when I say pleasure,

22:04

I'm making quote marks with my fingers.

22:07

I'm so touched by that. Very impressed.

22:09

I knew you would. Yeah. That's

22:11

Talking Dateline for this week. Remember, if you have

22:14

any questions for us about stories or about Dateline,

22:16

you can reach out to us on social at

22:18

at Dateline NBC. See you for

22:20

earnings on Dateline on NBC. I'm

22:36

shocked, you know, they were always such

22:39

a good team. So

22:41

successful. But to do

22:43

something like that, to exceed

22:46

their budget? While

22:49

being over budget might not be a crime,

22:51

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