3:23

on

4:00

to great things. Maybe she'll make it to the view.

4:02

It would not shock me. I definitely,

4:05

definitely listen to this one. Here's my interview with Santina,

4:08

Lindsey, and Andrew after a

4:11

brief message. Hi,

4:15

this is Lori K. Parsons

4:17

and I'm Jackie Keshin and we have a podcast called

4:19

the Jackie and Lori show on Max Funnett. It's very

4:22

exciting because what do we talk about? Comedy.

4:24

Stand of comedy. We both do stand of comedy

4:26

in half since the dawn of Christ. Well,

4:28

Jackie. Is that offensive? It is

4:30

offensive to me because you've aged

4:33

me. We started in the late 80s and

4:37

we're still here. You can't kill

4:39

us. So go to the Jackie and Lori

4:41

show on Max Funn and listen to that.

4:45

Jackie and Lori show. New episodes Monday.

4:47

Call me on Max Funn.com.

4:56

Team Pretty. It's

4:58

great to have you all here.

5:01

Obviously, Lindsey and Andrew

5:03

have already done an episode

5:06

of the podcast in which we did some deep

5:08

background on the two of you. But

5:13

Santina, can we talk a little bit about your

5:15

journey to comedy? Like

5:17

how you tell

5:18

us. So yeah, tell me

5:20

the story. Well, I was born funny.

5:22

But I really honed my

5:25

skills.

5:26

I think I

5:29

really did hone my comedy

5:31

skills after my accident. I think because

5:34

I was about six years

5:36

old when I got into my accident. So I mean, really,

5:38

just to be honest,

5:40

there's nothing. It's

5:42

very sad. A little cute

5:44

little girl in a wheelchair. It's just that's

5:46

just sad.

5:48

And so

5:50

when people would adults would look at me, they

5:53

would look sad. And

5:56

I'm like, oh my God, I am evoking such sadness

5:58

in people. And I

5:59

I hate being, you know, it doesn't have

6:02

to be sad, by

6:02

the way. It just is, that's just what our society has

6:05

needed out to be. Because I wasn't sad.

6:07

I was not sad, but people were sad when they looked

6:09

at me. And so I felt like even

6:12

at six years old, it was my responsibility to make all

6:14

the adults in the room feel better. Kids

6:16

were inside when they looked at me. They thought it was so cool. What

6:18

is that? Let me try. Can I try it, mom, please?

6:21

Kids thought it was cool, but the adults were like, oh,

6:24

poor girl. Oh, she had such a life ahead of

6:26

her. But still, I don't

6:28

like ahead of me. Hello, I'm in that life right now. So

6:31

I just

6:34

very naturally learned that if I

6:36

crossed

6:36

a joke or said something kind

6:38

of funny or cute or sarcastic, I'm from Jersey,

6:40

so sarcasm is something that we learn very quickly

6:43

and naturally. I learned if I

6:45

did that, then the people would laugh. And then they'd sort

6:47

of be OK with my situation.

6:49

And that's just something I had to do basically

6:52

my entire life.

6:55

Wow. And at what point did

6:57

you sort of realize, oh, this could be

6:59

a career path and not just something I

7:02

do to make daily life

7:04

less uncomfortable?

7:05

Probably when I started working out

7:07

of college for a nonprofit organization,

7:10

and I was bored to death,

7:13

like it was great. It

7:16

was for the National Spinal Cord

7:18

Injury Association, which is

7:21

now something else. But God

7:24

love them for everything that they do. But

7:26

I was just like, oh my God, I can't talk

7:29

about wheelchairs anymore.

7:31

It was like too much. And

7:33

it's OK to talk about that. And I still do infuse

7:36

that into my comedy and into my writing. But

7:38

it was just so serious and so,

7:40

I mean, it

7:42

was like not my brand

7:45

of advocacy. I am not

7:47

the person, even now with these strikes

7:49

going on, I'm not really out there on the line. I

7:52

decided to strike by going to New Jersey for

7:54

this summer. I'm not

7:56

acting. So that's my strength. So.

7:59

No, but I mean like, you know, I've just never been,

8:02

I'll donate, I'll do things, but like, for me,

8:04

I've learned like that

8:07

when I would do comedy, when I would do sort

8:09

of like little videos, when it's like

8:11

YouTube started coming around or whatever, like

8:14

I would do little videos or little

8:16

comedy skits, we called it at the

8:18

time, now you have to take sketches. Whatever,

8:21

it doesn't matter really. But

8:24

we would do that and I figured, I

8:27

found that if I

8:29

wrote an article for the National Spinal Cord Injury

8:31

Association, let's say about accessible bathroom,

8:35

I was preaching to the choir. If I did

8:37

a little bit about it in a standup act, people

8:40

would come up to me for, still

8:42

to this day for years, oh my

8:45

God, I do want you to handicap staw

8:47

versus I saw your comedy. So I'm like, oh wow,

8:49

I'm like, I'm not preaching to the choir

8:51

with my comedy, I'm actually reaching people that maybe

8:54

wouldn't look for this information

8:56

and I can do it in a funny way and sort of like I

8:58

always say, how's the vegetables and the brownies,

9:01

like shook people into learning. Cause

9:03

I think the people that need to learn this stuff are

9:06

not the people who are seeking it out. Like

9:09

the most ignorant among us are not like watching

9:11

TED talks, they're not hiring

9:13

DEI consultants, they don't even know what that

9:15

is. So I appreciate

9:17

all those people for like wanting

9:20

to better themselves, but I also feel like we

9:22

need to reach the people who aren't really

9:24

interested in that because sometimes

9:27

all it takes is a little exposure or

9:29

just a little aha moment or just like, you

9:32

know, that scene that we have in the script with

9:35

Lindsay putting my wheelchair in the car is very sort

9:37

of true. It's like people

9:40

catching an Uber or Lyft is a nightmare for me because

9:42

people see me and they're like, they think

9:44

like they have to, you know, carry

9:46

an egg around all day and not break it. Like it's

9:48

like that level of like, how am I gonna

9:51

do this, I don't wanna break her. And I have to make

9:53

them feel okay. And I have another

9:55

example of me having to make a joke

9:57

right off the bat and make everybody comfortable,

9:59

you know. So I found that just by sort

10:01

of living my life Pimedically

10:03

I was reaching people that way and I'm like, oh

10:06

wow. Well if I can Make

10:08

the world a little bit better and

10:10

have fun and do what I want Why wouldn't

10:12

I just put those two things together? It's so much more fun

10:15

I don't feel like you are just you were born funny

10:18

though. Let's just be honest Thank

10:21

you. Well my you know, like I said

10:22

I feel like people from New Jersey do have a little bit

10:24

of like a sarcasm a little bit of like this and I

10:27

think that that like serves me and I especially

10:30

now that I've lived in LA for 10 years

10:32

I've really learned to lean into the jersey

10:35

because it is a character. It really

10:37

is. Yeah, I

10:39

Feel like you know so much of the of

10:41

the show came from you know

10:45

Our on it mine and Santina's honesty with each

10:47

other about her situation And

10:49

you know I think I had a lot of shame around

10:52

not knowing What it was like

10:54

to know someone in a wheelchair and so like

10:56

she would just sort of like teach me things and was very open

10:58

It she didn't like

11:00

block me out. It was sort of just like we

11:02

became friends and then it was just like

11:05

It was very natural. I would just like learn things but

11:07

I would be embarrassed at first like I

11:09

was terrified I was like, there's no way I

11:11

mean that scene about melody putting

11:13

that wheelchair and I was like There's no way

11:15

I will ever be able to break down that

11:17

wheelchair Like I don't even know what's

11:20

about to happen Like I like I

11:22

always thought it was like magic that she got

11:24

from

11:24

the wheelchair into her car I was like, I

11:26

never seen it happen. I was like, I don't even

11:28

know what is she flying in there?

11:30

Like I don't know And

11:32

so we sort of just like once we broke

11:35

that seal of like feeling

11:37

uncomfortable It was like we it was

11:39

just every time I

11:40

was with her. I would just see the craziest

11:43

things I was just like, oh my god, like

11:45

this is we would you know wait outside

11:47

of a restaurant? Because

11:48

there would be a couple of steps and

11:51

they'd be like, oh we're gonna open up the kitchen

11:53

And then we just be like us like hanging out on

11:55

the sidewalk of this and no one's

11:57

really saying anything in the same He did just very used to

11:59

it because it's

11:59

like, oh, yeah, this is the whole thing. They

12:02

say there is someone if they ask someone to ask

12:04

someone to clear the kitchen to come. And it's

12:06

like,

12:07

God, I mean,

12:09

get it together. And

12:11

so it was just really eye opening for

12:13

me. And every time I

12:15

was it's, it's so crazy. Every

12:17

time I walked on a sidewalk now in LA, I'm like,

12:20

Oh, she

12:21

can't get on the sidewalk. Like the sidewalks

12:23

are so messed up. And it never would have ever

12:25

occurred to me never would have ever. Yeah, just

12:28

like you walk on the sidewalk. Yeah,

12:29

that's the thing. It's like I have been able to

12:31

reach people one on one my

12:34

entire life. Like I know everybody I've gone

12:36

to elementary school with is very

12:38

aware of accessibility forever. And

12:40

you know, the friends I meet in LA and one

12:42

on one, I can do it. But

12:43

I'm just like desperate for a bigger

12:45

platform. Because

12:48

I know what I can do one on one.

12:50

And I know that if I were able to do it on television,

12:53

or you know, like on stage, I'm able to reach a couple

12:55

of maybe 100 or you know, 20 or 30 people at a time.

12:58

But like just think what I could do on TV.

13:02

I just I'm desperate for that platform. I

13:04

just am but I mean,

13:05

it's not like

13:06

something you could just go get at the store,

13:09

you got someone who has to give you you know, that's

13:11

sort of what also I mean, what's in that you're saying

13:13

that's also is what this with the pilot

13:15

or what the show is about is about her wanting, you

13:17

know, her feeling like she has this

13:20

something to give to give

13:22

to bring to the world and you know,

13:25

in the show, she wants to be a talk show host, which I

13:27

think was something you really did want to do.

13:28

I do. Yeah. Yeah, I would love

13:31

to be on like the view or something like that, where

13:33

people are just

13:34

seeing, you know, a real person

13:37

who lived their life is living their life in a

13:39

wheelchair and has opinions, some

13:41

related to the injury and some

13:43

not like when I talk about the bachelor, I'm not like, well,

13:46

as a girl in the wheelchair, I mean,

13:48

I'm scared, you know, like it doesn't always factor

13:50

in, but sometimes it does. And I think that that's

13:52

interesting to see the levels,

13:55

you know, there's never any nuance when

13:57

it comes to disability. And I hate that.

15:59

crazy. Like, did you ever do you've gone a couple

16:02

of shows and upstairs? I did, but that

16:04

was the thing in the end. Sometimes being in

16:06

wheelchair works is my favorite, right? Because

16:09

downstairs was advanced. So I

16:11

was immediately placed in advance because

16:13

they couldn't put me upstairs, which

16:15

was great because

16:17

then I, you know,

16:19

you got to like, time to keep up. So when you're in

16:22

around advanced people, you just get better. I don't

16:25

know what would have sucked if it was reversed.

16:28

Right. Oh, my God. So I,

16:30

I, she had been in the boot camp for a long

16:32

time before I arrived.

16:35

And I saw her and I was like, who is

16:37

this like, gorgeous girl? And she's like,

16:40

she's kind of like friends with everybody. She's so funny.

16:42

And I was super intimidated. I don't think I was

16:45

like, I don't even know how to talk to her. Like, I don't, I don't

16:47

even know how to go up to her. Do you remember that?

16:49

It was ridiculous. I was so crazy because

16:51

I, you know, I also thought like this,

16:53

you know, this is like a cool girl who's

16:56

been in the business. She's very, like,

16:58

very nice. And then she

17:00

was like treating me like I was, I

17:02

remember when I exchanged phone numbers, she was

17:04

like, I can't believe

17:07

I'm putting your phone number on my phone right now. I was

17:09

like, what? I mean, I remember that. That

17:12

was crazy. I'm like, what are you talking about?

17:14

You're cool, too.

17:16

Yeah,

17:17

so that's sort of how it happened. And, you know,

17:19

we'd spend time in the class, but then we'd, we'd

17:21

all sort

17:21

of hang out after. I say it

17:23

like

17:23

we were 18 years old. I know.

17:26

In our 30s doing like, whatever.

17:31

But then, but then what happened?

17:33

Oh, and then,

17:36

then we started spending a lot of time together and then

17:39

Santina had to go to the hospital. That

17:41

was sort of like, because

17:43

she had an injury that I

17:46

mean, I don't know if you want to get into that or whatever it was. There

17:48

was an infection that put me in the hospital for 3 months.

17:52

And so

17:54

I think I went, at first, I was

17:56

like, I should probably go like, we weren't

17:58

that close, but I was like, okay. I feel like I should just go

18:01

maybe once, you know? And just... So

18:03

you kept saying, I should really visit Santina. I should really

18:05

visit Santina. I was like, you should, go.

18:08

Yeah, okay. And so, oh yeah,

18:10

remember we were gonna do that show called

18:12

You Should Really Visit Santina? Yeah.

18:14

So if I

18:16

told you the amount of people that came to visit

18:18

her, I mean, it is insane.

18:21

Like she would have like 20 visitors

18:23

a day, like

18:25

in the beginning, and I was like, how am I gonna make an

18:27

impact?

18:28

Like, what can I do? And

18:30

so I went and I was like lucky enough

18:33

to sort of be, I think I was like the only one

18:35

there at the time. Maybe people were

18:37

leaving. And that's when our friendship

18:39

like

18:39

started to bloom. You were there for like a

18:42

long time. I feel like you were there for like three or four hours.

18:44

I don't know.

18:44

Yeah, and then I just kept, I was just like, well, I

18:46

guess I should go visit Santina today. I

18:48

guess I'll just go tomorrow again. I'll just keep going.

18:50

And then we just started

18:53

thinking about,

18:55

we first started, I started thinking

18:57

about writing a short, and so

19:00

that's what ended up

19:00

happening. I thought you were gonna write a play first called You Should Really Visit

19:02

Santina. Oh yeah. Yeah,

19:05

and this was kind of hatched

19:13

during

19:15

those hospital visits.

19:18

Yeah, a version of it, a version of

19:20

it. And then it sort of evolved like

19:22

everything does.

19:23

Yeah,

19:24

but that was the first, like, yeah. Because

19:27

of that time spent together and like just.

19:29

Didn't, am I wrong? Did

19:31

Luke Perry visit you?

19:33

Yeah. He did, yeah. When

19:35

he was one of the visitors. She

19:37

was like obsessed with that 90210 and with

19:39

Luke Perry specifically, right? Yeah,

19:41

he's been my number one forever and ever and ever.

19:44

And

19:45

he was,

19:46

I mean, some people you hold like

19:48

on a pedestal and you're like, if you meet them,

19:51

it's like, you know, they don't meet your heroes. I

19:54

mean, if I had this guy at a 10 when I met him, he was

19:56

a 20, he was the best.

19:57

Sorry. How did that?

21:58

wasn't the

22:00

same. It was, I don't even think... Her

22:03

mom was much more prominent.

22:05

You had also met her mom and

22:07

she's such a good character. Oh my God.

22:10

She's amazing. Yeah, she is. She

22:12

kind of felt...

22:14

She's not a people like that, you know, from

22:16

a mother or other person in a wheelchair,

22:18

blah, blah, blah. You know, people have all these expectations

22:21

and thoughts, but she really is

22:23

just like a Jersey kind

22:25

of a mom. And it's very funny that our

22:28

dynamic is funny because she

22:30

does not baby me at all. She does not,

22:33

you know, and so I really, I feel

22:35

like I get a lot of my...

22:38

I know toughness isn't a word, but

22:40

that's from...

22:41

You're mocking. From

22:43

the

22:44

relationship that I had with her because

22:46

she never,

22:48

like,

22:48

she's still to this day. I mean, she's the

22:50

opposite of baby's mate, yeah.

22:52

Wow. Yeah. Was

22:54

the short

22:55

actually shot or is this something you just

22:57

wrote? Okay.

22:58

No, we were gonna shoot it. And then that's

23:00

sort of how it happened. And then I shared it

23:03

with my agent who also

23:05

represents one of the producers.

23:07

And we

23:10

sort of like had a meeting with her and her

23:12

company and it was immediately like,

23:14

I want to make this a television show. And

23:16

it was kind of like, I

23:19

think we were both like, I mean, at first

23:21

it was like, I really wanted to make

23:23

the short. I originally wanted to direct it.

23:25

That was what was in my head, like the whole

23:27

time. But then that just like slipped away. And

23:30

then just this offer to like

23:33

make it a TV

23:33

show was like, we sort of couldn't refuse.

23:36

And then that's when everything started shifting and started

23:38

writing it.

23:39

What was the production company? What

23:43

was the production company? Kelly Focco's kind of show.

23:45

Kelly Focco. She was like literally

23:47

the beginning of her production company and she

23:49

had a call. I think she had a flight attendant maybe in

23:51

development by then, but nothing,

23:54

she hadn't made anything at that point. And

23:56

they read the short and I think they just, then

23:59

they met. Santina and I think

24:01

they were just like, I mean, this is, you know, I

24:04

mean, Santina, this is great in a room like,

24:06

you know, like, and then from

24:08

there, there was a meeting, I think with

24:11

Warner Brothers and it was like, you know,

24:13

the head of Warner Brothers in there. And I think

24:15

they were just dazzled by Santina and just

24:18

like, whatever you guys want to

24:20

do, you know, we'll do it. The strange part about

24:22

the process of it was that the short was a

24:24

hundred percent more, much more tonally in line

24:27

with, I mean, now, this is what, like five years ago. Five

24:30

or six years ago was much more tonally in line

24:32

with something you would find on a cable

24:34

or streaming place and

24:38

and it sold to CBS.

24:40

And so there

24:42

was a at least I

24:45

think for I think for all of us, a bit

24:47

of an adjustment

24:48

of like, wait, what do you mean? You guys,

24:50

you guys all read the short. Like, what

24:52

do you mean? This is not going to work here. Like,

24:55

you know, we think and in

24:58

retrospect, I now

25:00

see it. I personally now see it as hard as it was

25:02

to accept at the time. And after reading it

25:04

on the podcast, I was like, oh, I get

25:06

I get I get now what what they were, what

25:09

they wanted from from the show.

25:11

And I think what was delivered, which

25:14

was something that would work on their network. And

25:17

I think actually has

25:19

a really nice energy and tone

25:21

to it. It just was an adjustment.

25:24

It worked

25:25

well the other way. You know, the

25:27

show can be adjusted, I think, like the premise

25:30

adjusted.

25:32

You know, there was definitely topics,

25:34

certain topics that I was thinking about

25:37

episode ideas when we were

25:39

thinking of cable streaming. And then once

25:42

we kind of moved to network, I was like, OK, OK. And

25:44

then I sort of like put on my network

25:47

colored glasses and I was like, OK,

25:49

let's brighten this up. And, you know, pick

25:52

this up or whatever.

25:54

But, you know, that's the nature of the the

25:57

beast. You sort of learn on the job. I mean, that was

25:59

my.

26:01

that in all moves so fast that was the first show

26:03

I ever pitched which I didn't even know I was gonna be

26:05

doing and it wasn't even what

26:07

in the room and I'm like what are we doing? Yeah,

26:11

there are a lot of lessons to be learned.

26:13

I think you know, I think we were just so excited that

26:15

it was just like okay, let's go but I

26:18

think we I think we really wanted to make that

26:20

short, you know

26:23

and the other thing was that that

26:27

this is somebody's personal this is somebody's life, right?

26:29

This is not just like a

26:32

random idea. This is literally

26:34

her life, her playing herself. So

26:36

there's also this other element of like getting

26:39

notes about somebody's

26:41

life. I will say actually though that

26:44

I what I was really impressed by was Santina's

26:46

ability to to

26:49

adjust to be like okay, well, you know, I think

26:51

we Lindsay and I were more like, no,

26:53

we can't do that. That is not how it happened and

26:55

see it'd be like, no, you can do like this. Like she was always

26:57

really good at coming in and actually

27:00

being sort of I feel like the most clear-headed of being like,

27:02

let's do this instead. What about this? What about this?

27:05

You know, I felt like I felt like that was like

27:07

a really impressive thing. I've written

27:09

stuff about myself before and I think that that is a

27:11

difficult thing to do and I feel like she was very able

27:14

to, you know, switch.

27:15

Thank you. I think that that also

27:18

comes from, you know, living my life with this disability

27:20

is you can't adapt. You

27:23

can't do anything. You have to adapt

27:26

to my surroundings or, you know,

27:28

whatever every day. And so I am

27:31

just naturally, you know,

27:33

brain processes, adaptation

27:36

very,

27:37

it's easier to be able to adapt from streaming to the network

27:39

with not no problems at all.

27:41

You know what I'll say that

27:44

it was a little bit in the beginning a little

27:46

like, like, no, that's not

27:48

how

27:49

my mom would say it. No, that's not what

27:52

but the further away it got from my

27:54

life, the more I was like, okay,

27:56

that's fine by me because

27:57

now it's like, well, this isn't even my.

28:00

my story anywhere

28:01

so now I still have my story. I can still

28:03

take my story and make a movie or

28:05

make a film or make a series for

28:08

streaming down the line, you know, whatever. Let's

28:11

just do this because there's no way

28:13

in any world I would have been like,

28:15

no, I don't want to start a show

28:17

on network television. All of

28:20

us. No,

28:22

I don't think I realized

28:24

that until actually I'm writing a musical

28:26

right now that could be this

28:28

big thing and we're writing it together and

28:31

it's like

28:31

the more of a sort of getting bigger, the

28:34

less it was becoming, it was like I would

28:37

be so hesitant to like,

28:39

like let go of things that actually weren't

28:42

autobiographical. And I was like, well, I don't know. I don't know.

28:44

I don't know. But once I sort of decided, okay, it

28:46

can exist as two things. It could be a solo show

28:48

where I started to tell my stories and then it could be this other

28:50

thing. It made doing it for

28:52

myself made me really realize how

28:55

that must have felt for you. And I'm sorry that I

28:58

didn't totally realize that I think at

29:00

the time.

29:02

Was in the short was the character called

29:05

Santina? Was it more? No.

29:08

Oh, Natalia. Yeah.

29:10

Okay. So was there a point, there's a

29:12

point for you where it's like, this is Isabella. This

29:15

is like a character. This is not.

29:17

Yeah, Natalie.

29:19

Yeah, there is a point.

29:21

Yeah, I definitely, I think, I think I'm going to

29:23

say, I think that

29:26

was very important to me. The further we got away

29:28

from my life,

29:30

the more important it was for her not to have my

29:32

name because

29:34

you know how that is. I mean,

29:35

once you put the name on it, it's very difficult

29:38

to do anything else.

29:39

Yeah. And so tell me a little bit more about how

29:42

the ways in which the short, it sounds

29:43

like it was just like sort of edgier. Was it like,

29:46

was it more sex

29:49

or like what was it that made that more

29:52

people streaming?

29:53

It was darker. Yeah, it

29:56

was like literally like it

29:58

just felt darker. Like, I don't

30:00

know how to describe it, but it was

30:02

much more, I guess I would also say cinematic,

30:05

not as dialogue driven, right? I think

30:07

there were just sort of more moments of breath in

30:09

there, I think, how I would describe

30:11

it. She was also, she

30:13

was pursuing being an actor. So there was

30:15

like acting class stuff,

30:18

which, you know, I

30:21

think just felt like kind of grittier and like,

30:23

I had to waste sadder, I guess I would say. Like

30:26

it's sort of sadder to watch someone like, you

30:28

know, going to like a crappy acting class, then

30:31

to like someone who's like, I'm gonna be the next Oprah and

30:33

is, you know, go, you know what I mean? It just

30:35

has a different energy and

30:37

vibe to it. And

30:40

then I think it just also just felt,

30:43

I mean, I hit these as where it did feel like somehow

30:45

less aspirational, like,

30:48

you know, I think it felt more, I think

30:51

it felt probably a little bit more in

30:53

a certain sense real,

30:56

but yeah,

30:57

I think the CBS version feels real

30:59

too. But I think those were sort

31:01

of the big things in terms

31:03

of the tone.

31:06

It just felt like everybody was struggling

31:08

a bit more. It felt like people were struggling

31:10

in the CBS version, but Santina

31:13

is always energy

31:15

up, always, you know, I'm gonna make this

31:18

happen. Not really doubt, doesn't

31:20

really doubt herself, or at least that we, you know,

31:22

she does internally, but we

31:24

don't dwell on it. And I felt like it was a little bit

31:26

more, she was a little bit more doubtful maybe

31:29

in that short in certain ways. Does that

31:31

make sense? And the other characters were a little sadder too. Yeah.

31:34

It was like everyone was just like more

31:35

real in a way like of just like kind

31:38

of like some

31:39

pathetic people. Like

31:40

Santina was the most by

31:42

far like not pathetic

31:44

person, or not, as I believe,

31:47

but everyone else was like, ooh, they're sorry

31:49

people. But I also

31:51

think the other big difference was that it

31:53

didn't feel like a TV show in certain ways,

31:55

meaning like

31:56

it wasn't like we

31:58

were trying to get a group of people together. end

32:00

of the pilot, they're all end up together,

32:02

right? Same place, you know, you know

32:04

what I mean? That didn't

32:06

happen in the short because the intention was

32:08

was just to set up what

32:10

to shoot the short because we wanted to shoot the short

32:13

and to set up what we thought could

32:15

be the sort of just inklings

32:18

of a show. So somebody could be like, oh, that's awesome.

32:20

Like now let's turn it into a show, not actually

32:23

make a pilot, you know, we want

32:25

to go to Sundance. Like, you know,

32:27

that was make this cool short

32:30

and we probably should still do it.

32:32

Whatever it is, whether it's

32:35

a sunny sitcom or a, you know,

32:37

kind of a darker short, the

32:40

point really is that you have this character

32:42

in a wheelchair and she's

32:44

not the worst off.

32:48

And I think like, you see like,

32:51

young, good looking people

32:53

walking around in LA and you're like,

32:56

you're immediately going to feel bad for the one in the wheelchair.

32:58

And then you kind of wait,

33:01

watch for a minute and you're like, oh, the one

33:03

in the wheelchair is not the one I

33:05

should feel bad for here. And that's kind of

33:07

what we wanted

33:07

to show however you paint it, you know.

33:10

It seems like, you know, the way we're introduced

33:13

to her is she's helping someone

33:15

else. Yeah. On that plane.

33:18

And that seems like that must have been

33:20

a very deliberate, like this isn't someone who's

33:23

just always in need of help because

33:25

we're introducing her to you

33:28

by showing her helping someone

33:31

else. And that just sets us off. Right.

33:33

But what I like is that she does need help, right? She

33:35

asks him to push

33:36

the button, but she doesn't, that

33:38

doesn't ruin her whole day. When

33:41

she needs help, she asks for it. And

33:43

then she moves on and that's it. And

33:46

she also is fulfilled by helping

33:48

other people. That like, sort of fills her

33:50

tank. Right. I guess that's more great. It's like we

33:52

all need help for certain things. You know,

33:55

so maybe she needs, but it doesn't mean she

33:57

always needs help. She's capable of.

35:55

understand,

36:01

you know, like my family members, they don't

36:03

know what or people aren't in this business.

36:05

They have no, I still,

36:08

I mean, I learned a lot from it, but

36:11

if I went through it again, I'm sure I would learn

36:13

even

36:14

more because there's no one path. Yeah,

36:16

I've done it like 25, 30 times. And

36:19

I still haven't figured it out. Like, it's

36:22

just, um, can

36:24

you give me an example of something that was

36:26

in that original story document where that

36:28

they were like, this is not what

36:31

we want.

36:33

Well, there, I mean, there were a lot of things. There were,

36:36

there were a lot of things, but I mean, I think

36:38

it was just like the, um, uh,

36:41

I think in the original story document,

36:44

there were definitely other care. I mean, there was, we

36:46

also Michelle Nader was brought on board

36:48

to sort of supervise. We've known

36:51

her for years and we love her. And, um, uh,

36:53

it got, you know, as, as I don't

36:55

know if you've ever supervised anyone before,

36:58

but it can also get to be a tricky dynamic

37:01

because suddenly they, if

37:04

they start to doubt that you can handle it, they'll just ask

37:06

this, you know, the supervisor to do

37:08

it. And then it's with supervisors, I really

37:10

want to do it. They don't want to step on toes, but it's

37:12

also their job and it gets to be tough. So

37:15

I think like right away they were just like

37:18

the network. I, I don't even know how

37:20

this exactly came to be, but there was a character

37:22

that, that was being written for somebody that we

37:25

know and love. This great actor, Tim Bagley,

37:27

uh, you know, we, we

37:29

just adore him. And he was a coworker

37:32

of Santina's at the Sephora where she works.

37:34

And

37:36

somehow, somehow we got to know

37:38

that it should be, uh, a drag

37:40

queen. Uh,

37:41

it just like a younger drag

37:43

queen. It was just like a random,

37:46

you know, I, we don't even know. We don't really even

37:48

know why. So that's what, you know,

37:50

the mom character sort

37:51

of got cut because again, it was

37:54

no younger, like they really wanted a much

37:57

younger, uh, past

37:59

in general.

37:59

So anybody that we had that was sort

38:02

of older that aged down

38:04

or

38:05

cut, or like cut down a lot

38:07

I thought.

38:08

And I think they also, I think

38:10

like we already, I think we, I

38:13

feel like the story document, oh

38:15

I think it may have, I'm trying to remember

38:17

now, but I do feel like her,

38:21

Kenny, her ex-boyfriend, I'm

38:23

not sure he had like moved out here, I'm not sure

38:25

exactly how that all went, but there were definitely like a lot of

38:27

adjustments that sort of

38:29

made it more like a pilot,

38:31

you know, that. Yeah,

38:33

that there was a reason for Kenny to stay at the

38:35

end, you

38:35

know. Oh yeah, there

38:37

were, I can't remember, it's been so long now. But then there

38:39

are some,

38:40

just like some notes, I was thinking about like how

38:42

we sort of

38:43

jam packed that first scene and I'm really

38:45

proud of it because it was like, I never thought

38:48

we'd be able to get out why she was,

38:50

why she's moving to Los Angeles, and

38:52

she uses a wheelchair that

38:55

you know, to just kind of do all the things

38:57

and to show that she's this inspirational person,

39:00

it was like a miracle that that scene came together

39:02

because it's like,

39:03

and you know, we wouldn't have done

39:05

that had we not gotten that note from the network

39:08

to say like establish it, you know. So

39:10

sometimes those notes that feel crazy

39:13

are sometimes like

39:14

really valuable. Yeah, well that's the main

39:17

exposition.

39:18

Yeah I mean exposition in a pilot is

39:20

the hardest thing and you do,

39:23

there's a lot of exposition that's really well

39:26

and elegantly conveyed in that opening

39:28

scene. So that like makes sense

39:30

as a note, make a character

39:33

a drag queen is just

39:35

a very strange kind of note to

39:37

give because it's not usually, you're

39:39

not usually told so affirmatively something like

39:42

that. It's just like, oh we don't like this character, can you

39:44

do something different and there's like subtle suggestions,

39:46

but just like, like that's

39:49

just a strange thing

39:51

for them to have said. Yeah, I

39:53

don't, to be honest, I don't even remember it

39:56

that specifically. I don't, the whole

39:58

thing was just.

40:01

I barely there's so many I'm glad that

40:03

there's here because I couldn't answer some of these questions

40:05

right now becomes a blur No,

40:09

I remember that because I believe in fact, I believe that

40:11

when that Noah's given it was like

40:13

It was the story document had at

40:16

that point They they sort of said hey mission will you

40:18

take a quick pass in it and make

40:20

this character a drag queen? So when we got the story

40:22

document back, it was like,

40:25

I guess that's a drag queen now Yeah,

40:27

it was like really I was just like I

40:30

don't I don't know how to write this character

40:32

I don't know what was I like

40:35

not that there's anything wrong with it, but I was like, I don't know

40:37

I mean

40:39

Doesn't totally

40:40

seem like it's part of the story. It

40:42

seems like this is about

40:43

Bella, you know

40:47

Yeah, I don't get it. Um, but yeah, I

40:49

mean there were it was I think pretty drastically

40:51

different I don't really remember exactly but I do

40:54

remember that it did go through it even

40:56

after that I have even after that first or second story

40:58

document There were definitely a lot of like

41:00

I think one thing that we also really I have to learn

41:03

I I feel like I have learned this over and over again is

41:05

that There's never enough room

41:08

in a pilot and you always think you don't have enough and the

41:10

truth is you have way too much Yeah So

41:13

it took a little while to sort of I think

41:15

let go of things and be like oh It just

41:17

needs to be simpler even even the pilot

41:20

as it is is too long, you know

41:22

I would say one thing so after that reading

41:24

that we did of the on this fabulous

41:26

show

41:29

Gosh like Santina needs to be the star

41:31

of a tone And like how

41:33

do we get this to be something again?

41:35

you know, and I I was just so like

41:38

amazed that like I Mean,

41:40

I'm always just amazed by her But

41:43

but her voice needs to be

41:45

in the world and on a television show and on

41:47

something like this that I'm just like Frustrated

41:50

to see how many things get on television

41:52

that are Not

41:54

important not funny and I you know,

41:56

it's really devastating to me

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42:41

app you're using right now. I

42:44

mean, are there examples... Santino,

42:48

what do you think

42:49

Hollywood most often gets wrong

42:52

about people with disabilities? That

42:55

was part one of the question. And

42:58

then I was going to ask if you think there are examples where

43:00

Hollywood has sort of

43:02

gotten it right.

43:04

Well, I'll say one. I

43:06

feel like over in the UK, they get it

43:08

right more than we do.

43:09

I think

43:12

Notting Hill is a pretty good example because his sister

43:14

is in a wheelchair or his

43:17

sister-in-law is in a wheelchair. And

43:20

it's really...

43:22

There's things about it that I don't love. Like

43:25

the fact that they live in a two-story house

43:27

and he has to carry her up the stairs every night

43:29

for bed. And I'm like, no. But

43:33

I do like how they sort of... It's

43:35

not about her. The movie's not about her, but she

43:37

is an equally

43:39

important character as all the other side characters.

43:42

And then I like when they use her disability

43:44

to sort of get through the airport because that's like a fun,

43:47

funny, organic way

43:48

to use it. So that I like.

43:51

I think it's like, incorporate it

43:53

when it needs to be and then

43:55

not when it doesn't need to be. I

43:57

think that that's something that

43:59

there's...

43:59

And there's just more actors

44:01

in England in wheelchairs,

44:03

there's more shows. I mean, I don't know. I don't even watch

44:05

that much British television, but this is what I

44:08

heard from

44:10

just being around. You're

44:12

just being around. Yeah, well just being,

44:15

I guess, an actor in a wheelchair, you

44:17

know, being in the disability community and

44:20

being in the actors, you

44:22

know, energy community. And

44:24

so

44:26

that's sort of where they're getting it.

44:28

And I do see some more characters

44:30

popping up here and there, you know,

44:32

of characters who have disabilities sort

44:35

of just being on the side or whatever, but I'm

44:37

still not seeing enough, you know, like,

44:42

well, let me ask you this, name

44:45

for me

44:46

three

44:48

actors in wheelchairs, besides me.

44:52

I can name one. I can name one, but I can't even name, I

44:54

don't know if I know his name. No, I know, so it was a different

44:56

one. Ali Stoker. Oh, okay.

45:00

Yeah, Ali Stoker.

45:02

Oh, Stoker. Stoker. Okay,

45:04

so do

45:05

you see what I'm saying? There's

45:07

that one guy, right? That one, the... Yeah,

45:10

there's that one guy, but do you see what I'm saying?

45:13

That's the whole point. That's the whole point. Like,

45:16

you know, diversity is so important

45:18

and I'm so happy that everyone's,

45:20

you know, fighting

45:23

for it and working for it. But I

45:25

feel like if you

45:25

go through

45:28

different demographics,

45:30

we're starting to see at

45:31

least some household

45:33

names popping up

45:34

and I just can't say the same for the disability

45:36

community, like, at all. And that's

45:39

a huge problem. I think that's a huge

45:41

problem. And you shouldn't have, and Ali

45:43

has one with Tony and...

45:46

And she wouldn't even have that platform had the

45:48

Glee Project not existed. I mean, you know, that

45:51

wouldn't happen and she's

45:53

incredible and only still

45:56

one person in here could name, you know

45:58

what I

45:58

mean? So it's just like...

45:59

That's

46:00

really sad. That's just sad

46:03

like really zero word

46:05

And we're all in the industry. It's not like I just fucked

46:07

you off the street. This isn't Billy on the street

46:09

Well, you always talk about how

46:12

or you have talked about how when you go

46:14

to an audition Right, it'll

46:16

be you know She's in a

46:18

waiting room. It's eight people in a wheelchair It's like

46:20

a 85 year old man and a 12 year old,

46:22

you know Asian

46:26

boy and like it's like that

46:28

the one in a wheelchair versus

46:30

yeah,

46:31

and I'm like, what is the part? What are we

46:33

doing? So,

46:36

I mean we need to get

46:38

just and I think that accessibility

46:40

on set is also an issue When

46:43

I am on set I've found and actually,

46:45

you know, what's

46:45

funny our own the Michelle

46:47

who we worked with she sort of

46:50

Created a part after working with

46:52

us on pretty she created a part

46:54

for a

46:57

Girl from New Jersey in a wheelchair

46:59

when I

46:59

got this audition, I was like, uh It

47:01

sounds like me and then when I saw this

47:04

the showrunner was I'm like, oh wait Is

47:06

this for me? And so, you know, I went through and I did the

47:08

audition and I got this really cool part on

47:10

another show So that was great. But

47:13

like I have to really prove

47:16

Myself and then it's like backwards like

47:18

when I was on Another

47:20

sitcom same thing. It's like they wrote a part and

47:22

then sort of for me so that's great

47:25

that I get to do that, but like Hell

47:28

no, this is one thing this it's just like I

47:31

Mean the amount of times I mean I'm

47:34

like obviously such an advocate for Santino

47:37

But like always telling casting directors bring

47:39

Santino in for like this

47:40

part The

47:42

wheelchair and so they they're like the

47:44

amount of times people were found like oh

47:46

Yeah

47:50

Okay,

47:51

they just don't think about it. They just don't think of it. You know what

47:53

I mean? It's not it's so foreign to

47:55

them. Hopefully they start to think of it one thing I

47:57

just also want to say that was interesting about

47:59

the

47:59

process of the pilot was

48:02

that

48:05

Santina would frequently point

48:07

out, you know, there are certain

48:10

things that are specific to Santina, right?

48:13

Santina is not, everybody in a wheelchair isn't

48:15

going through the exact same thing. So,

48:18

but there are times when it's like,

48:21

you know, where she might

48:23

be like, this

48:25

happens to me, but this is like, this

48:28

is, I'm, the majority of people

48:30

this doesn't happen to. So do

48:32

we want to, do we want to represent that or

48:34

do we want to represent what really does happen? And,

48:36

you know, to most people. So I thought that was sort of an interesting,

48:39

you know, sort of thing to figure out,

48:41

like, are you, do you want to just tell

48:44

the specific, specific story or do you

48:46

want it to apply to, you know,

48:48

a bigger group? Yeah. I mean, it's like how Ellen

48:50

didn't represent every lesbian or,

48:52

you know, it's that, it's that old thing.

48:55

Where when you're sort

48:57

of the

48:58

only one or, you

49:00

know, one of a small

49:02

number, you feel like weird

49:05

extra pressure to

49:06

represent this entire

49:08

group

49:08

of people who you've never even met all

49:10

of that. How can you do that?

49:14

And yeah, I feel like the specific

49:17

ends up being the universal,

49:19

even if it seems like it's not, you

49:22

know, even if it's like, well, I can't relate to that, but

49:24

yet somehow it's still, if it is specific

49:26

and true, it will end

49:29

up. It seems like that's your job is not to like, you

49:32

know, it seems like going forward, it's just like, if it

49:34

really is specific and true, do you put that

49:36

in even if it feels like, but this probably doesn't apply

49:38

to that many people. It's sort of, it will,

49:41

on some level, people sense

49:43

the

49:44

authenticity of it. Totally. That's

49:47

the reason you learn. The more you do this,

49:50

you learn that.

49:52

Counterintuitive, but you're absolutely right.

49:54

So there's been such, you

49:56

know,

49:58

the billboards and signs saying, you know, there

50:00

is no diversity without disability and

50:02

then these signs that say hire disabled

50:05

writers, not

50:07

just diversity

50:10

consultants. Maybe

50:14

it's because of my office is at the farmers

50:16

market at the Grove and those signs are just...

50:19

Those hired disabled writers, not just

50:22

disability consultants or whatever, have been

50:24

so visible even during the strike,

50:27

like months into the strike of like no one's hiring any

50:29

writers right now. It seems like if

50:31

there's money being paid for these

50:33

signs, it's like really this is not the time.

50:38

But I've been impressed by the visibility

50:41

of those messages. I have

50:43

no idea how well

50:46

they're working or... And I'm

50:48

just... Are you involved in whatever group

50:51

is responsible for those messages

50:54

getting out there, Santina?

50:55

I know definitely

50:58

people who are involved in that

51:00

part of the

51:01

fight, which is so great

51:03

and appreciated. And it

51:06

is important

51:08

to get... I

51:10

mean, anything that you're working

51:12

on,

51:13

if it's dealing with a certain

51:16

type of experience, you need the person

51:18

who's lived that

51:19

experience in the room.

51:20

And

51:24

I wish there were more disabled writers, not only because

51:26

they

51:27

can write disabled

51:30

stories, but like I said, for

51:32

example, I'm good at adapting

51:34

because I'm in a wheelchair. So someone with

51:36

a disability, they have a brain that can

51:39

adapt maybe quicker than someone who

51:41

isn't. Whether it has to do with disability

51:43

or not, they'll just maybe

51:45

be able to think of another way to do something

51:47

faster than someone else, because that's

51:50

just how their brain has

51:52

been forced to work all

51:54

their lives. And I think...

51:57

That's an incredible point. I mean, I just

51:59

want to... Like that is just

52:02

something that would not have occurred to me before

52:04

this conversation. But it's like, as you're talking

52:06

about, for people

52:09

without disabilities, like a note from

52:11

a network can knock us, like,

52:13

it can ruin our week. Because probably people

52:16

are not as used to regularly

52:19

adjusting. So you saying that

52:22

is just like such an important message

52:24

to get out there in terms of what someone can bring,

52:26

a disabled writer can bring to a writer's room beyond

52:29

like oh, okay, here's a scene with a

52:31

disabled character. You know, you're up like,

52:34

now they're tired to shine.

52:36

No, absolutely not. You should have seen

52:38

the disabled community during

52:40

COVID when everybody

52:41

was scrambling around.

52:47

We were all watching on Zoom like

52:51

because this is like, and

52:53

the fact that even Zoom was created

52:56

or you know, things were created now that catered

52:58

to people who couldn't leave their house. We were like, oh,

53:01

now you don't have to go to

53:03

class to get the lesson. Now

53:05

you don't have to. I mean, really. So it's

53:08

like, but rather than be upset about it, we just have

53:11

to take what we can get. But like, I've seen like,

53:13

people want to make the sidewalks accessible

53:15

now because of these like, line or

53:17

bird scooters. And they're like, we have to make the street,

53:20

the sidewalks, flatter for the scooters. And I'm

53:22

like, yeah, for the scooters. God, I

53:24

don't care why you do it, just do it.

53:28

It's like, I think that somebody, yeah, people with

53:30

disabilities

53:31

tend to bring ideas to the table

53:33

like Zoom. We could have told you that years

53:36

ago, but nobody was

53:39

listening. That's

53:42

true. It's like, it's like every day you're getting network

53:44

notes and you don't have a choice. You

53:46

don't have a choice. Like they're like, you're not going to be able

53:48

to go over there right now. And you're like, you can't say,

53:50

well, no, I want to go over there. You just gotta be like, all right, I gotta

53:53

find another way. You know, so I'm not

53:55

like,

53:56

find another way. It should have been my

53:58

middle name. I mean, that's like,

53:59

every day,

54:01

whether I'm going to the beach, whether I'm going

54:03

to a restaurant, whether I'm going

54:05

to like a tattoo parlor, whatever

54:07

it is, if there's a step, if there's a

54:10

gimme door, whatever it is, find

54:12

another way and that's it. I think by the way,

54:15

that step thing was so important at the beginning

54:18

of all this. It was just like a single step.

54:20

A single step can completely

54:23

stop her. You know, and there's like that,

54:26

you just never, you just don't think about these

54:28

things, you know, ever.

54:29

Yeah, I should say too, like the

54:32

most moving line to me,

54:34

the one that really is when Kenny

54:36

says, I always knew when

54:37

there would be stairs. And

54:40

it's just like, it's, you know,

54:42

it's such a beautiful thing, this character

54:45

who you kind of, it's like kind of a dope or whatever, but

54:47

he's like, he was

54:49

on the wavelength where

54:52

he was thinking, he had learned to think

54:54

about those. Yeah.

54:56

And it's like, what you're saying, Lindsey, you know, and Andrew, like you

54:58

now see the world in a different

55:01

way. And it does seem like, you know, there's a bit

55:04

of progress as humans where like the

55:06

circle of empathy hopefully

55:08

expands, right? That there's, you know,

55:11

over years, whatever, we start

55:13

to think about different groups

55:15

of people and empathize. And

55:18

then there's a segment of the population that is

55:20

very resistant to

55:22

that and is fighting against that,

55:24

you know, whatever. Anti-woke

55:26

means what? Anti-empathy because wokeness

55:29

is just means empathy for

55:32

other groups. And it does seem like, okay, we're not

55:34

there yet with the disabled community.

55:37

And what you're saying is it just, it doesn't take

55:39

much to get

55:41

these thoughts in your head and to start seeing

55:44

the world in this way. And

55:47

like, oh, maybe I won't use that,

55:49

you know, handicap bathroom, you know,

55:51

stall, like, because somebody

55:53

actually need it.

55:54

Yeah, I think one of the issues

55:57

for me anyway, with the woke movement is that

55:59

some of it.

55:59

it can be performative. And

56:02

I think sometimes people spend too much time on

56:05

the correct language to

56:07

use or whatever and not

56:10

on fixing the

56:11

actual problems, like they want to appear

56:14

woke

56:14

or whatever, but then what are you actually

56:17

doing?

56:18

And that's like a huge

56:21

difference for me. It's the difference between someone

56:23

who says,

56:25

I'm so sorry you can't

56:27

come to my event because

56:29

it's not...

56:32

And

56:36

you can see they're nervous, they don't know what to say.

56:38

Whereas for somebody who's just sort of maybe

56:40

a little rougher and is like, oh,

56:42

let me carry you up the stairs, I

56:44

know you're handicapped, and it's like, okay,

56:47

maybe that person was a little rougher but they're getting

56:49

me in the door. So I don't know which

56:51

one is better. I mean, I don't know, it's not

56:53

like, to me, I'd rather us

56:56

focus more on

56:58

really like

57:01

actions and not the

57:02

words. And I'd stop on

57:04

that.

57:05

I feel like whenever we

57:08

were going out anywhere, if I were to call ahead

57:10

and say, oh, my friend's in a wheelchair, it was like,

57:12

oh, anyone

57:13

wants to help, for the most

57:15

part, and they're really happy to know

57:18

that they're ready for it. So I think

57:20

there's something to like, I

57:22

mean,

57:23

of course there's gonna be times where people don't know

57:25

she's going somewhere, but it

57:28

does feel like when people are alerted

57:31

of it, they want to be helpful.

57:34

Yeah, but I will say that that's why it's

57:35

so important for

57:37

people who are able-bodied to

57:40

speak up because Lindsay

57:42

gets a very different reaction than

57:44

I do. Because when I call and I say,

57:47

I need access,

57:50

it's sort of like,

57:52

I don't always get such a warm

57:54

reception. Oh,

57:55

really? Wow. Yeah, and so,

57:57

you know, sometimes for me it can...

57:59

down like complaining, whereas from

58:02

someone, you know, a group of people walk

58:04

in and they're like, there's no ramp, then

58:06

it's like, oh, we're doing something wrong, people are noticing.

58:09

But if I go in and say there's no ramp, there's like, well,

58:11

sorry, but go to a place that has it, you

58:14

know what I mean? So it is very, very important for people

58:16

to speak up on behalf of other demographics.

58:20

I mean, you know, I do it, I

58:22

do it if I see injustice for something

58:24

else, I will definitely speak up whenever I can.

58:27

And I hope, I would hope people are doing the same,

58:30

and I think that they wonder if they could, or if

58:32

they knew, but like we've said before,

58:35

I don't think sometimes that they realize what's going

58:37

on. Like how many times I've told people, oh, I can't

58:39

go to that restaurant because the bathroom is not accessible. And

58:41

it's like,

58:42

oh my God, I never know, I've been there 10

58:44

times and I've never noticed, you know.

58:46

It's so funny, it's just occurring to me.

58:48

I feel like at least once a week, we go somewhere

58:51

where she goes, oh, Santino

58:53

won't be able to come here. Like it's so interesting,

58:56

it's like, it really like, it's become

58:58

a part of her, thinking, I remember

59:00

we moved into our place actually, she was like, oh,

59:03

she actually, because we have stairs in the front. So you

59:05

can get back through the back. But she was like, oh,

59:08

if Santino comes over, and so we asked, and they

59:10

were like, oh, but you can go and there's a thing in the back.

59:13

But yeah, it's interesting how, yeah,

59:16

once you're, if you're engaged

59:19

with it in any way, or you, then you do start

59:21

to think about that. And then when you do open up

59:23

your restaurant, you might be

59:25

like, oh hey, we gotta, you know. It's

59:27

just like learning it when you know more languages,

59:29

like you're just a

59:31

smarter person in the world, because you can understand

59:33

other people. So it's just really just about

59:36

letting people know about it. I mean, that's why it's

59:38

just so important to just like,

59:40

yeah, the more people know, the better the

59:43

world will be. I highly recommend, by the way, if you haven't,

59:45

Santino made a really, really amazing music video

59:48

a few years ago. That's super,

59:50

super funny. I highly recommend it. Okay, I

59:52

don't know it. It's called Ass Level, if you want to say

59:54

that. Okay, can we, maybe

59:57

we'll put a link in the show

59:59

notes.

59:59

I

1:00:01

do think it's important to

1:00:05

incorporate sort of like relatability

1:00:07

for anything. Like that's always important to me. I don't

1:00:09

want someone

1:00:10

to see my story and feel

1:00:13

isolated or early needed because they don't know anybody

1:00:16

in a wheelchair. I want

1:00:18

them to, you know, like it really, when I do

1:00:20

stand up and someone comes up to me and says, you know, I

1:00:23

was, you know, closeted in middle

1:00:25

school and I remember feeling that

1:00:27

same way you described when such and such happened.

1:00:30

And I'm just like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like,

1:00:32

you know, I'm happy that we can connect because it's like

1:00:35

my therapist always says, the situation may

1:00:37

be different, but the feeling is the same. And I

1:00:39

just like love that. It's probably my favorite thing she's ever said.

1:00:41

And I just love that. And I

1:00:43

think, you know, television and pop culture does

1:00:45

really educate us in

1:00:47

a way that

1:00:50

other things don't because not everybody,

1:00:52

like we said in the beginning, is going to the

1:00:54

TED talks or taking, you know, minoring

1:00:57

in sociology or whatever at school.

1:01:00

And so

1:01:01

when there was, like we talked about Ellen before,

1:01:03

sort of that like gay boom or whatever

1:01:06

you want to call it in the 90s and, you know,

1:01:08

with Will and Grace and Queer Eye. And then sort

1:01:10

of, I think that that helped

1:01:14

the, you know, people feel

1:01:16

like a little more comfortable

1:01:18

with something that they were afraid

1:01:21

of because it was unknown to them. And that's

1:01:23

what I think happens with people, you know, Uber drivers

1:01:26

pick me up and they see the wheelchair, they're like, ooh, because

1:01:28

it's so unknown. But if there was, you

1:01:30

know, if Elaine on Seinfeld had been

1:01:32

in a wheelchair this whole time,

1:01:35

20 years, 30 years later, whatever it

1:01:37

is, I think that a lot of that

1:01:39

fear would be gone already. Gone.

1:01:42

You know, you just need somebody, an

1:01:44

icon,

1:01:45

somebody to do it. Fine, I'll

1:01:48

be your icon. And

1:01:51

comedy is the best way, right? I mean, comedy

1:01:53

is the best way, you know, for,

1:01:56

it's the best pathway for this kind of thing to,

1:01:58

you know, to. I think so.

1:01:59

you want to lighten up the mood. You know what, we've

1:02:02

already done, you know, my left foot and you already

1:02:04

done million dollar baby and I'm born

1:02:07

on the 4th of July and enough people have killed themselves

1:02:09

in movies because they're disabled. We've seen it.

1:02:12

I've seen more, I know hundreds of people

1:02:14

in wheelchairs and I've seen

1:02:16

it happen. More people can, you

1:02:18

know, unalive themselves, is

1:02:20

that how we say it now, in films or

1:02:24

than I've ever, I don't know anybody

1:02:26

who has personally

1:02:27

thinks that.

1:02:29

So stop making that the only narrative.

1:02:31

So annoying. It's insulting.

1:02:33

Yeah, well, look, gay characters used to kill

1:02:36

themselves all the times in movies. Like, you know,

1:02:38

if there was a gay character, chances

1:02:40

are they would commit suicide by the end of the movie. Like

1:02:43

we've moved on from that in

1:02:45

that realm. Right? Yeah. But I'm

1:02:47

rewatching Melrose Place right now, which is a great

1:02:49

rewatch everybody

1:02:50

if you haven't. And the one,

1:02:51

Matt, the

1:02:54

gay character, every freaking storyline

1:02:57

for the I'm in season almost

1:03:00

a season five now, every one of his storylines

1:03:02

are all done and being gay, this poor guy.

1:03:05

And now

1:03:06

we get it. He's also

1:03:08

like a doctor. He's like in medical

1:03:10

school. We

1:03:12

didn't talk about that.

1:03:16

I hope someone from the view is listening

1:03:18

to this. All right. This

1:03:21

was great. It was

1:03:23

such a good pilot. And I counting

1:03:26

on the three of you to not give up on

1:03:28

this

1:03:29

project of somehow getting Santina

1:03:31

on our television screens. I mean,

1:03:33

obviously not right now. But

1:03:36

when things we can get back

1:03:38

to making things. Thanks for doing this podcast.

1:03:41

It's so great. Yeah. Yeah. Just

1:03:44

like all these people get to revisit this

1:03:46

thing that they spent, they poured their heart

1:03:48

and souls into these pilots and, you

1:03:50

know, and they just disappear. They just become,

1:03:53

you know, zeros and ones on the computer. And

1:03:56

how many of them do you do live? This would

1:03:58

be so fun to do live. I know.

1:03:59

I know we've just been sort of starting to get

1:04:02

back into doing some live

1:04:05

shows. And hopefully,

1:04:07

you know, obviously they were

1:04:09

all live before the pandemic. And then

1:04:12

once we, you know, it's just

1:04:14

been a little scary, like getting back into

1:04:17

doing live shows, because it's just like, is anyone

1:04:19

going to show up? And so, you know,

1:04:21

we've done a couple of people have shown

1:04:24

up. So I think we're just

1:04:27

trying to figure out what the best theater

1:04:29

is. And but we're going to we'll

1:04:31

be doing more live ones, you know,

1:04:34

for sure. Coming up,

1:04:36

but

1:04:37

have you ever done it at UCB?

1:04:39

No, no,

1:04:40

that probably would be a

1:04:42

good space.

1:04:43

Yeah, I don't

1:04:44

know.

1:04:47

We will look into that because we're right now kind of

1:04:50

like shopping

1:04:51

around. Yeah, we used to do it

1:04:53

at Largo and it's just like, it's

1:04:55

intimidating to try and sell out Largo.

1:04:58

Yeah. So just finding the right size,

1:05:02

space.

1:05:04

But this was great. Thank you

1:05:06

so much. So much fun. Talking

1:05:09

to you, Santina. And always a pleasure, Andrew

1:05:12

and Lindsay talking to you guys.

1:05:14

Thanks for doing the show again. Thanks for having us.

1:05:17

All right. Take care. Bye. Bye.

1:05:19

Bye. Bye.

1:05:24

All right. I hope you enjoyed that. We're going to put a link to Santina's

1:05:27

half level music video in the show

1:05:29

notes. Watch it. It's great. Dead Pilots

1:05:32

Society is produced by me and my co-producer,

1:05:34

Ben Blacker, and our associate producer, Noah

1:05:36

Finling. It is edited and mixed

1:05:39

by Jordan Katz. If you like this

1:05:41

show, please leave us a review

1:05:43

on Apple Podcast. It really helps maybe

1:05:45

tell a friend about us. You can follow us on

1:05:47

social media to find out all the latest. We're still

1:05:49

on Twitter at DeadPilotPod

1:05:52

and on Instagram at DeadPilotSociety. Until

1:05:55

next time, I'm Andrew Reich. Thank

1:05:58

you for listening.

1:06:05

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1:06:08

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1:06:10

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1:06:12

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