0:00

I know father I know father jody and

0:02

die from suicide. Father jody'll never

0:04

would have killed himself. Never ever

0:07

ever He had commitments

0:09

on Sunday for

0:11

a baptism. He had commitment

0:14

a couple other commitments. Father,

0:16

Joe was big on his commitment, especially

0:19

if it was a law enforcement family, he was

0:21

big on that. I

0:23

have no doubt made my thing that

0:26

there's more to this story, and that's

0:28

why Susan

0:31

is getting stuck own while I knew where she

0:33

goes.

0:58

The voice you just heard is from a retired

1:01

cop in the Buffalo PD, a

1:03

man we just interviewed few days ago,

1:05

An interview that came about

1:07

because of this podcast. And

1:10

just like Father Joe, orchestrating

1:12

from above, many asked specs

1:14

of our time during our trips to Buffalo. I

1:17

believe he orchestrated the conversation

1:20

between myself and the retired cop

1:22

because by sheer happenstance. His

1:25

daughter saw an insta story that was

1:27

up for just twenty four hours posted

1:29

by her friend about the podcast and

1:31

father Joe's case. And immediately,

1:33

The daughter deemmed me and told

1:36

me that her dad was a retired

1:38

cop and was friends with father Joe

1:40

and she grew up her entire childhood hearing

1:43

from her dad. That this case was

1:45

botched, and father Joe

1:47

did not kill himself. This

1:53

has been a very wild and rewarding

1:56

journey, so I hope you stay on it

1:58

with us. And thank you so

2:00

so much for listening and for your support.

2:02

The podcast community is such a wonderful

2:05

grassroots community of interesting and

2:07

interested people in listening

2:09

to things that inspire you and empower

2:11

you and make you maybe want

2:13

to help get justice for

2:16

the many unsolved cases out there.

2:18

So thank you so much. This

2:20

is an ongoing investigation, and

2:22

this story is still developing. Which

2:24

is why we are releasing on a biweekly

2:26

basis as new tips and

2:28

information are coming in. So

2:30

please, if you have any tips, Any

2:32

relatives that are close to this case?

2:35

Anything. Please reach out to

2:37

us at deadly Diocese dot

2:39

com. Father

2:43

Joe was by all accounts loved by

2:45

everyone. And trust me, he wasn't

2:47

perfect, but he was always there

2:49

when someone needed him. The life

2:52

of any party because he always

2:54

brought pizza, whether it be

2:56

for a celebratory or

2:58

hard situation. He

3:01

showed up with the city's finest Italian

3:03

pie and made sure everyone's bellies

3:05

were full. While he simultaneously

3:08

walk them through triumphant and

3:10

difficult times. We

3:13

will hear more from the retired Buffalo cop

3:15

as this series continues, But

3:17

remember, father Joe was Chaplin

3:19

to both the police and the fire department,

3:22

and he was even at ground zero

3:24

the day after nine eleven. And

3:27

this is where he met, a man

3:30

who would become an unlikely friend, but

3:32

a close one. Jay

3:34

Leonard. I play this, of course. And that can

3:36

certainly be said for a local

3:38

minister. Yeah. Interesting here. To any size,

3:40

Pete Gallon tells us about the unlikely

3:42

friendship here with one of Hollywood's biggest

3:45

names.

3:50

What does Jay Little have to do with this small

3:53

church on Buffalo's east side? Father

3:55

Joe Burrito. But steady that

3:58

at Crownsboro, Arizona Chappen. Yes,

4:00

it's a friendship forged in the wake

4:03

of tragedy. Yes, we

4:05

were completing the cleanup. The tonight

4:07

show invited members from New

4:09

York City and the fire department, police department

4:11

to go into a lottery system, and then they

4:13

were gonna choose people to come for

4:15

the show. Next CNO, we're getting a tour

4:18

of the studio, and the

4:20

music started playing to walk them back

4:22

later. And So

4:25

all of a sudden everybody was kinda like looking at

4:27

me Wondery Jay comes

4:29

down the set and he says, hey, Carter.

4:32

You're fifteen years late for class, you know.

4:35

And so, you know, we started, you know, doing

4:37

the raspberries back and forth. I would call him

4:39

a shit man and call me Connor. Over

4:41

the years, Caughterer and Chitrade

4:43

have become quite close, regularly exchanging

4:46

phone calls. It can't even email

4:48

some of his favorite bits from the shows. Ain't

4:53

jokes for father Joe to use it his

4:55

sermon. Sometimes I I use

4:57

some of his jokes or e mail in a joke, hey, you

4:59

could use before the final bloods

5:01

in MBS. I So at mass,

5:03

one of your writers is Jay Leno.

5:06

Well, you sound as big as boys that

5:08

don't make it to the altar are posted

5:10

right here for the office staff and parishioners

5:12

to enjoy

5:12

this. Yes. It's an exciting connection

5:15

for everyone here at St. Lawrence Church.

5:17

I was, like, getting on the phone call was dead. I

5:19

was absolutely tired of jail. I'm

5:21

like, wow. It was great. And then I made

5:23

everybody else jealous of me because

5:25

he call

5:25

me. But it's

5:26

also a connection that has helped many

5:28

people here in Western New York, like

5:30

the motorcycle that Jay Doné into a

5:32

benefit for injured Buffalo police officer,

5:35

Patty Burry, while the Joe says Jay

5:37

has become a strong but silent

5:39

buffalo back airs. One phone call.

5:41

He was there. And we saw

5:43

his kindness and generosity. We did good

5:45

for bump up. And then he's been a good over

5:47

the years. I mean, he's helped us here at St.

5:49

Lawrence on a very silent

5:51

way with our charities and helping us with our

5:53

food pantry. He assisted

5:56

us with prizes for

5:58

rep as we used to help the Paris.

6:00

Also, he's helped other people in the

6:02

community as a sign and partner.

6:05

Wondery that was canceled. It's Pete Galloway, Jay

6:07

Leonard's eighth show. We'll be on May twenty

6:09

ninth on the Joe Topolski. Did he plan to

6:11

be there. Of course, Jason Nash's new show.

6:13

I believe it starts in the fall of this show will

6:15

be from ten to eleven.

6:17

Okay. And I've heard a couple of Father's Havalese

6:19

and he's pretty funny guy himself.

6:22

Yeah.

6:22

You know, and you know what I'm saying? What do you know?

6:24

He doesn't offer much. That was a channel

6:26

for news story. About father

6:28

Joe and Jay Leno's true life

6:30

friendship. It's truly

6:33

remarkable how well connected

6:35

and how well known Father Joe

6:37

was. Last

6:39

episode, we learned that the medical examiner

6:41

did not return the brain to the body.

6:43

And her reputation of botching autopsies

6:46

was not limited to father Joe.

6:49

Bishop Malone was just settling into

6:51

power in the Buffalo Diacy at the time of

6:53

Father Joe's death, but had already

6:55

begun sweeping cases of sex abuse

6:57

under the rug and into the closet.

7:00

This humbled man of God lives in

7:02

love here in the Fuji Bishop's

7:04

mansion where local folklore leads

7:07

us to believe there was bock analean

7:09

level of debodgery going on

7:11

under the bishop's watch. There

7:15

is a second future and

7:17

other questionable Wondery.

7:20

Silly putty or maybe makeup that

7:22

Joe Edge found upon examining the

7:24

XOOM priests head. The

7:28

location of this questionable second

7:30

suture is covered by hair in the

7:32

crime scene photos. And not well

7:34

documented. But there is apparent

7:36

blood dripping down onto his neck

7:38

from this location in the crime scene

7:40

photos. We

7:42

are layman and there are lots of

7:44

suspicious incongruencies from

7:46

crime scene to autopsy to

7:49

exhumation that are hard to explain.

7:52

This episode we are going to rewind

7:55

back to Saturday, October thirteenth

7:57

two thousand and twelve. And walked

7:59

through the crime scene with Sumerano,

8:02

father Joe's twin sister. You

8:05

know, Greg, For

8:09

nine years, we've been trying to get justice

8:12

for Joey, but it's not just Joey.

8:14

It's for all the people that have

8:17

had Erie County medical examiner's

8:21

office do autopsy that are wrong. I

8:23

mean the people are not qualified. You

8:25

can't go by what

8:27

the police say. You have

8:29

the body in front of you. The body

8:31

tells you what happened to to

8:34

themselves, not what

8:36

you may see. And

8:38

this isn't the only

8:41

questionable high profile

8:43

case of doctor

8:45

Verdi's, that has to

8:47

stop. And if

8:50

Joey's death was because

8:52

of

8:53

what he was gonna expose in the Diocese

8:55

of Buffalo. People

8:58

who abused kids need to be criminally

9:00

charged You do

9:03

not. You cannot go

9:05

to treatment center and

9:08

think that if someone's gonna be

9:10

cured, they're not We would

9:13

be in jail for a long time

9:15

if you or I touched a child. And

9:18

you have to have The

9:21

DA do what's right

9:23

and he has not done it. So

9:26

our family wants to thank you

9:28

for doing the story on

9:30

Joey and for trying to help us get to

9:32

the truth. No family

9:34

should have to have a loved one

9:36

taken, but what

9:39

they've done to our family

9:41

is as heinous as the

9:43

crime that they committed on Father

9:45

Joe.

9:46

As you heard in episode two, we met Sue

9:48

on our first trip to Buffalo. We had a

9:50

beautiful Italian dinner out,

9:52

one which I was so nervous

9:54

for because how do you bring up the

9:56

worst thing that could

9:58

ever happen to a twin

10:00

sister? Losing your twin

10:02

brother Wondery sinister circumstances.

10:07

But Sue being the tough New Yorker she

10:09

is jumped right in. Sue

10:11

is such an interesting juxtaposition.

10:13

Of the sweetest woman you'll ever meet.

10:15

Who worries about you above herself?

10:18

Who's motherly? Who's

10:20

unwaveringly kind? But at the

10:22

same time, You know if

10:24

push came to shove, she's the badass

10:26

woman you'd want in your corner. And a

10:28

woman that if it

10:30

is true that foul play was involved,

10:32

the people responsible are likely

10:34

to shake in their Sunday's best,

10:36

their boots, their

10:38

vestments, In fear

10:40

of ever encountering soup,

10:42

Marie, I'd

10:43

like to plunge your lights out. Do you

10:47

So at this point, we've been in Buffalo for over

10:49

a week, and we are growing so

10:51

close to Sue and her father. You're

10:54

kind of essentially in a weird version

10:56

of a Stockholm syndrome where you kind

10:58

of have to become close. But

11:00

luckily, Sue and her dad

11:02

are so welcoming and lovely

11:04

that we are lucky to be

11:06

stuck with them on this journey. So

11:10

something pretty awesome happened recently. Which

11:13

gave us hope that Joe senior

11:15

might get to know what happened to his

11:17

son before it's too late. So

11:19

from our first trip to our last trip to

11:21

Buffalo, Joe senior's health had declined,

11:24

and sundowning was causing more confusion and

11:26

loss of memory. Sue

11:28

tells us the most painful part

11:30

this is her father having to relearn

11:33

over and over again that

11:35

his son has passed. But

11:38

on our last phone call with he ensued just

11:40

a few days ago, he was

11:42

the hilarious,

11:43

tough, no nonsense

11:46

man that we first met.

11:49

This last trip you kissed me on the

11:51

cheek. It was lovely. Good day.

11:53

Yeah. Well, I think it's time that we got back

11:55

to you know, medicinal

11:58

purposes. It's only. So

12:01

I think it's I

12:03

I think, like, I said, you know, I had another test.

12:05

You

12:05

like it, half. I thought

12:08

it was lovely. I guarantee.

12:09

Greg and I couldn't stop

12:12

smiling while talking to him. The old

12:14

Joe was back. And Joe's

12:16

senior will tell you exactly how it

12:18

is and how he feels

12:20

about some of the characters in his

12:22

son's orbit.

12:23

I won't trust,

12:27

and I mean the sincerely from

12:29

my heart. I won't

12:31

trust any

12:34

Preest anymore in

12:37

this diet season. Oh, I

12:40

agree. Okay.

12:42

And

12:45

you gotta be careful how you

12:47

talk, where you talk, and

12:49

y.

12:50

And that's the important part now

12:53

today. Why?

12:56

We introduced auxiliary bishop

12:58

Edward Groch in a previous

13:00

episode. But in a moment, Greg is going

13:02

to recap what we know about him.

13:04

Before we do that though, Let's hear it from

13:06

Joe Senior. Joe Senior

13:08

was not a fan of Father Grosch and

13:10

told us a story when we spoke to him a few

13:13

days ago. About the time that his son,

13:15

father, Joe, was in the hospital

13:17

recovering from a knee injury. Oh,

13:20

great. Thank you. For

13:22

sure.

13:24

Yeah. Just one thing I wanna

13:27

tell you is this

13:29

happened when my son

13:31

when he did

13:33

some damage to his street oh,

13:35

his street. I'll be alright. To

13:38

his knee, and we were

13:40

at Kimball Mercy. And

13:43

growth came in there into the

13:45

hospital. And

13:48

when Joey saw him, I used to

13:51

teach my son, he says,

13:53

get get

13:54

him out of here,

13:55

please. And I

13:58

looked. I says, okay. And

14:00

so growth says,

14:03

I'll take

14:03

care of mister Moreno. I

14:04

see you're not going to do nothing except get

14:06

your rest of the whole at this medical

14:09

room. And

14:12

with that, I made sure that he left

14:14

the building. Good

14:17

deal. K. And

14:19

if

14:20

I have to do it all over again,

14:23

I'll do it triple time. I

14:26

don't trust any priest

14:27

anymore. Even the ones that I had

14:29

the highest respect for.

14:32

Bishops Groch had been in charge of deflecting

14:35

accusations of sexual abuse

14:37

for Diocese of Buffalo, long

14:39

before Malone even arrived.

14:41

A pointed auxiliary bishop of

14:43

Buffalo in nineteen eighty nine, he

14:45

had been laughing these cases into the

14:47

legal void. Resolving nothing,

14:50

but rotating predators through a

14:52

blasphemous smoke screen of a

14:54

diocese that finally had

14:56

enough dust under the rug

14:58

that the truth started to

15:00

get out. Secretary,

15:02

seminarians, clerks, deacons,

15:04

and food pantry donation volunteers

15:07

started to see and hear the

15:09

dirt. A former

15:12

employee who wishes to remain

15:14

unnamed told us. Malone

15:16

wanted to appear like he had power when he

15:18

didn't really wanna do anything except

15:20

drink and be known as the good Bisha.

15:24

Grosch was the one who got shit done.

15:26

He was the chief pedophile in

15:28

charge, if you will. He would

15:30

threaten if you had to threaten

15:32

pay off if you had to pay off

15:35

and shmoes if he needed

15:37

to shmoes. Gross

15:39

told father Richard he could either

15:41

shut his mouth and become a priest

15:43

or go back to Poland. When

15:46

he came forward with his allegations against

15:48

Art Smith. I

15:50

wouldn't doubt it if Malone

15:52

had no knowledge of it whatsoever.

15:54

I think there is a group of men

15:57

in the church who do

15:59

their own thing. And I think

16:01

Malone was very scared of

16:03

this group. It

16:05

appears as if Groch is the puppet

16:07

master behind the pedophilia and

16:09

sex abuse going unchecked

16:11

in the Diocese for decades.

16:13

This unnamed source close to the

16:15

diocese went on to say. Someone

16:18

I trust very much who had dealings

16:20

with him on a regular basis

16:22

said his signature is on every single

16:25

document pertaining to sexual sins

16:27

and priests in Buffalo, not

16:29

just the pedophile stuff, But

16:31

all of the lavender mafia stuff

16:33

and all the priests with illegitimate

16:36

kids, he knows it all. He

16:38

per signed off on every single pedophile

16:40

case from nineteen ninety up until

16:42

last year or the year before.

16:44

Since retiring due to the

16:46

abuse scandal, auxiliary bishop

16:48

Groch has been stationed at

16:51

Saint Stanislas Parish,

16:53

the Mother Church of Polonia in

16:55

Buffalo, It's a strong storied

16:57

Polish community. But due to

16:59

declining attendance, has been turned

17:01

into a shrine for Saint Stan

17:03

in all Polish martyrs.

17:05

So it's a great place for

17:08

Bishop Groch to lie

17:10

low. Let this whole

17:13

scandal blow over his Malone's

17:14

mass. And Rachel

17:16

and I went there to pay him

17:18

a visit and see if he'd talk to us

17:21

about father Joe Moreno. Excuse

17:27

me. Or

17:30

do you know a father gross? Is

17:32

in

17:33

Bishop Hill? Yeah. I

17:35

haven't seen him for wealth. I don't know I

17:37

don't know if he's home

17:40

or not. Okay.

17:40

Where's the rectory? The next

17:42

building over. Okay. Thank you. Thank

17:43

you. You're welcome.

17:45

Looks beautiful in here.

17:48

We've done

17:49

a great job. That's

17:52

the business model.

17:55

This isn't. Okay.

17:56

Oh, there's names. Okay. Oh, this package.

17:58

Are

18:00

they saying this is a business office,

18:03

so or if you want the business office, go

18:05

to the other

18:06

one. Let's try.

18:08

Let's try. So

18:11

we press. They

18:16

didn't

18:16

speak right away. I guess I

18:19

should

18:19

have. To

18:25

hear someone?

18:31

Leave it after that.

18:34

I don't mean to interrupt your sex

18:36

capacity. He

18:40

wasn't in the chapel, he

18:42

wasn't in the rectory, so

18:44

we tried the office.

18:46

Monday through Thursday. Today is

18:49

what? Tuesday. Should

18:54

be open. To

19:04

ring. Okay.

19:26

Alright. Sorry about that. You're

19:29

good. Thank you. Alright.

19:32

Bye bye now. Hi. How are you?

19:34

Hi.

19:34

How's it going?

19:35

We were just wondering is Bishop Gross Inn.

19:38

We're working on a news piece

19:40

about inspirational stories during the

19:42

holidays about Catholic

19:43

So Bishop Grove

19:46

resides on the other side of the building. Okay.

19:48

We knocked on that door. Access to him. Okay.

19:50

Yeah. We knocked on doors. He's not available.

19:52

Okay. To be honest with you, I don't think he is

19:55

around because I didn't see his car. So

19:57

Oh, okay. No problem. Do you know

19:59

what he normally is around?

20:01

Can we set an appointment through you? Or No.

20:04

Okay.

20:04

I don't

20:06

even have his number. No

20:08

dice. Groch wasn't going to entertain our

20:11

inquiry regardless if he

20:13

was there or not, but the whole

20:15

place felt like an ominous monument.

20:18

More than a church. And

20:20

the maintenance man putting up Christmas decorations

20:22

inside the chapel locked the

20:24

doors behind us promptly after

20:27

we exited. This two hundred and

20:29

seventeen foot Flintstone Roman

20:31

behemoth towers over a

20:33

vacant buffalo suburb adjacent

20:35

from a ninety three year old seventeen

20:37

story art deco ghost

20:39

train

20:39

station, the Buffalo Central

20:43

station. That's been abandoned since nineteen

20:45

eighty

20:45

six. And

20:46

it looks like a movie set for a

20:48

post apocalyptic

20:49

film. Modern ruins decaying

20:52

in the sunlight next to a relic of

20:54

dialysin control in

20:56

this Polish neighborhood. And

20:58

much like Groch, past the

21:00

twilight of his career. The sun

21:03

setting beyond the horizon with the herald

21:05

singing lawsuits and

21:07

whistleblower's uncovering decades of

21:09

scam. Auxiliary bishop Groche is left with

21:11

his only post, the

21:13

titular bishop of Moros

21:16

sebistice. The

21:18

ruins of a twelfth century catholic church

21:20

in North Macedonia that had

21:22

been overthrown during the great schism.

21:24

And ten fifty 4AD. When Eastern

21:27

Orthodox Catholics began to refuse

21:29

the rule of the bishop of

21:31

Rome, aka the pope. Atticular

21:35

bishop is a formality of a

21:37

position overseeing an episcal

21:39

sea of a former diocese that no

21:41

longer functionally exists. Sometimes

21:45

called a dead diocese. Appointing

21:48

a titular bishop to

21:50

a dead diocese is a

21:52

standard practice for a bishop without real administrative

21:54

responsibilities like Roche.

21:56

And although father Joe told his dad,

21:58

I don't want this man anywhere near

22:01

me. When he was bound to a

22:03

hospital bed after a knee injury years

22:05

earlier, the Diocese

22:08

selected this man Bishik Groch

22:11

with no approval from his

22:13

family to administer father

22:15

Joe's funeral. The

22:21

caps immediately re

22:24

expanded that they

22:26

were investigating a

22:27

suicide, so

22:29

they never looked at anything

22:31

past suicide. So We

22:35

were told by my dad was told

22:37

by the former commissioner, Miranda,

22:40

they batched the

22:42

case up. And they did. I mean, they

22:44

didn't do anything that they were supposed to

22:46

do. They didn't fingerprint.

22:48

They didn't do ballistics. When

22:50

I called Janine Blayne, doctor Verdi's

22:54

boss, she said it was too

22:56

costly to do ballistics. And

22:59

I said, you do that for

23:01

any homicide victim.

23:04

I said, just

23:07

the gun. The history

23:10

of the gun, they really

23:12

didn't look into that. They didn't

23:15

We were told by a retired detective

23:18

judge when we brought the

23:20

forge checks. Well,

23:22

we're not handwriting experts.

23:25

You're the police. You a handwriting expert.

23:27

The check that was written that day. They

23:29

put someone in the rectory. So

23:33

They didn't look at that. They didn't look at their surveillance

23:36

footage, which you can see that

23:38

there is motion in some

23:40

of the scenes. And than

23:43

things were raised, that it's blacked

23:46

out. So anything that

23:48

would prove that this was

23:50

a homicide they didn't look

23:52

at? Sue

23:54

is so well versed in this case. She

23:57

can stack up so much evidence

23:59

against the alleged suicide of her brother,

24:01

and one fell swoop. That it

24:03

can leave you breathless in awe.

24:05

Shock something like this could actually

24:07

happen in America. And

24:10

she

24:10

keeps going. But rest assured, we will

24:13

be following up on everything she

24:15

mentions. They didn't

24:17

look at their Joey was right

24:19

hand dominant. They didn't look

24:22

at the yes. His

24:24

hand his left hand was not

24:27

lame. But the

24:29

historian from Smith and

24:31

Wesson said the

24:34

weight of the gun has right

24:36

hand dominancy, his damaged

24:38

his left hand, where the

24:41

where he was shot, he couldn't have pulled

24:43

the trigger. They didn't want to listen

24:45

to any of that. They

24:47

never really interviewed his family.

24:50

People that knew him and knew him

24:52

well, that He

24:54

talked about the abuse. He talked about

24:56

the embezzling. They

24:58

never spoke to. So

25:00

they wanted this clearly a suicide

25:03

It was ruled a suicide.

25:05

Even before detective Lima

25:07

went into the rectory, the

25:10

EMS call they were responding

25:12

to a self inflicted gunshot wound,

25:14

and that was because of Paul Weisenberg.

25:16

Because when he called nine eleven, he

25:18

said that he there was a

25:20

suicide. So shame

25:23

on them. Sue

25:26

has been tirelessly working on

25:28

her own investigation. her twin brother's

25:31

death for a decade. We

25:33

are piggybacking off her hard work as

25:35

she pulls out binder after

25:37

binder of records, receipts, call logs, and

25:40

sworn statements. As a

25:42

literal library of evidence stacks

25:44

up on her kitchen table Rachel

25:46

and I begin to truly understand

25:48

the time and

25:49

energy. Sue Moreno has

25:52

dedicated to determining what

25:54

happened to her twin.

25:56

Syed

26:02

down. When we got into father Joe's

26:05

voice mail, these were the first two

26:07

messages that come up. And these calls

26:09

happened well before his

26:09

death, but it just goes to

26:12

show you How connected he was.

26:14

Hi, Father Marina.

26:16

My name is Sarah, and I'm calling from the White

26:18

House Office of Appointments and Scheduling.

26:21

Hey,

26:21

Joe. It's North American from Channel four, five

26:24

of nine on Thursday,

26:26

the 25th of March.

26:29

Can you give me a call either sometime tonight

26:31

when you get this or call me tomorrow after

26:34

eight in the morning? My

26:36

number is 8767333

26:39

I'm just trying to get a handle on and

26:41

receive a tip that there is someone

26:45

from the diocese going to

26:47

be in court tomorrow for embezzlement. Judge

26:50

Burns

26:50

Court. And I'm just curious if you've heard

26:52

anything who it might be sorry

26:54

to have

26:55

to ask you, but I

26:57

thought you might know. Whatever you can do, I'd appreciate the

27:00

help. Hope always well. Bye

27:02

now. So

27:06

let's start with the morning of October

27:09

thirteenth two thousand and

27:11

twelve. Sue has equipped us with

27:13

her brother's phone records, schedule,

27:15

and calendar to produce an

27:18

accurate timeline.

27:19

As you'll see, father Joe was a busy

27:22

man with a fully loaded

27:24

Saturday.

27:26

Father Joe starts bright and early at six

27:29

AM. From six twenty one to six twenty

27:31

nine AM, Father Joe

27:33

called missus Bernie Deepasquale and thanked her for

27:35

helping him back on Friday. He

27:37

sounded fine, she said, and they made

27:39

plans for later that day.

27:42

At 702 to 709

27:46

AM, Joe received a phone call from

27:48

Lonnie Vader about an

27:50

abuse case. He was eating breakfast at

27:52

Tom's restaurant on Sheridan

27:54

Drive, so he said he'd call her back.

27:56

He had two burgers and a coke for

27:58

breakfast. At eight

28:00

AM, he had mass at Saint Amelia's

28:02

in Tonawanda.

28:03

At nine thirty eight

28:06

AM, father Joe called Lanie back. He

28:09

said, with both the testimony of the

28:11

neurologists and my testimony, we should

28:13

be good, and I will be in

28:15

court with you. So father

28:17

Joe is making future

28:19

plans here. Lonnie

28:22

also said that father Joe told

28:24

her If he did not get the assignment

28:26

by Monday, October fifteenth, he was

28:28

going to Washington to see the

28:30

holy

28:30

sea, the Papal Nuzio from

28:33

Rome. Father

28:35

Joe made plans for Lonnie and

28:37

the girls to come to Buffalo for the next week.

28:39

You don't make these plans and shoot

28:41

yourself later that

28:43

day. Father Joe also told

28:45

her of an impending lawsuit happening

28:47

the following January that would make

28:49

him a millionaire

28:50

again. So

28:51

there's clear evidence of things he's looking forward to

28:53

that he's discussing on

28:56

the phone the morning of

28:58

his

28:58

death. Let's continue.

29:02

From ten AM to ten forty five

29:04

AM, Father Joe was at the Kenworth

29:06

Fire Department. Consoling the

29:08

firefighters that lost a child earlier

29:10

that week. As Chaplin did the

29:12

fire department, this was a role that Father

29:14

Joe took to his

29:16

heart. The firefighters were in shock when

29:18

they heard of his death, saying,

29:21

he was just here helping

29:23

us. There is no way he killed

29:26

himself. At eleven AM

29:28

to eleven thirty AM, he had

29:30

mass at the Canterbury Apartments where

29:32

father Joe was their chaplain. Gayle,

29:35

cultural coordinator said he was fine.

29:37

In a good

29:38

mood, talking about getting

29:41

hospital

29:41

ministry. At eleven thirty four AM,

29:43

he got a phone call from Denny

29:45

Taylor Jr. Asking father Joe about

29:47

the marriage certificate. Father

29:50

Joe had just done his wedding the day before.

29:52

Tells him what to expect with the marriage certificate.

29:54

And Denny says, he

29:57

seemed fine. At eleven thirty eight

29:59

AM, Joey called Sue but did

30:01

not leave a message. At

30:03

twelve thirty three PM, Carol Kaufman

30:05

called Father Joe and asked

30:08

was hungry, and if he wanted her to bring

30:10

him something to eat. Father Joe

30:12

said, he was fine and he will see her

30:14

at the nursing home later

30:16

that day. From twelve forty

30:18

two to twelve forty six PM,

30:20

Father Joe bought lottery tickets for the

30:22

next day at the city market

30:24

across the street from

30:24

St. Lawrence Parish. He

30:27

looks fine on surveillance camera, and you

30:29

can see him walking across the

30:30

street. After

30:32

this, father Joe confirms an appointment

30:34

with mister Robert Krause. Father Joe said

30:36

he had something important to tell him and that

30:38

he would see him between two and

30:40

two fifteen before mass at

30:43

Saint

30:43

Francis. At

30:45

one thirty eight PM, Sue

30:47

calls Joey and leaves a message on his cell

30:49

phone. She says she has something important to

30:51

tell him and it was great news.

30:54

But he never called her back. Between

30:56

two and two thirty MPN,

30:58

Deb NASA, owner of the city market,

31:00

the store father Joe bought

31:03

lottery tickets from regularly, insists

31:05

that father Joe was there. At

31:07

this time, he bought peanut

31:09

m and m's, and milk. He

31:11

said father Joe was joking around

31:13

and seemed just fine.

31:20

This is where we lose track of father

31:22

Joe. His phone records cut off

31:24

at twelve noon, as it was the end of the

31:26

billing period, and he did not make

31:28

another appointment that day. Even

31:30

though some commitments, he had

31:32

solidified just hours earlier.

31:35

Through Sue, we got access to father

31:37

Joe's voice mailbox. Which

31:39

paints us a time stamp

31:42

timeline that picks up right where his

31:44

schedule and phone records left

31:46

off. These

31:47

are the voicemails of worried

31:49

friends and family, and

31:51

then eventually grieving

31:53

friends and

31:54

family. And I have to be

31:57

honest, every single one of

31:59

them made me cry.

32:00

So please

32:01

take care when

32:03

listening. It's a hauntingly heartbreaking

32:06

reveal. However, Sue

32:08

specifically requested us to air

32:10

these voice mails.

32:11

Hi there, Joe.

32:14

This is Maddie.

32:16

We're wondering where

32:16

you are. Call

32:20

back. Thank

32:20

you. Sent

32:24

Saturday, October thirteenth.

32:27

At 305

32:29

PM. Hi there, Joe.

32:32

Call me back

32:34

with you, please. Sent

32:40

Saturday, October thirteenth

32:43

at 308

32:45

MPN.

32:46

Joe John King. I

32:49

just got a

32:52

call that there's a

32:54

call at the church there

32:56

and the district guys are coming over

32:58

there. If you

33:00

need

33:00

anything, give me a call with. Call

33:03

me anyway. I gotta talk to you anyway.

33:05

Okay. Bye. Sent

33:09

Saturday. October thirteenth

33:12

at 406

33:15

PM.

33:16

Joey, Did call me right

33:19

away. Please call me.

33:21

Since

33:25

Saturday, October thirteen

33:28

at four fifty one

33:30

PM. Okeydoke.

33:33

You have to call me right away.

33:35

Okay? You used to call me

33:37

because they saw that there's something wrong with

33:39

the test. You used to call

33:41

me. Okay? Okay. Okay.

33:44

So Okay.

33:49

Sent Saturday, October thirteenth

33:53

at four fifty one

33:55

PM.

33:55

Well, hi, Carter, Joe,

33:58

on one elbow calling it

34:00

Saturday evening about five after

34:02

five. He's father Joe. I've been getting a

34:04

bunch of phone calls today, and

34:06

everybody's telling me, I hope something horrible he

34:08

hasn't happened. Give me a call

34:10

if you're okay because there's a lot of

34:12

concern out there for you right now. I've been kinda

34:14

hearing some people call and I just want

34:16

us to call to see if you're okay. So if

34:18

you get this in your I please give me a call as

34:20

soon as you can. 5786805.

34:22

I'll run out by calling. Thank you. Sent

34:26

Saturday, October

34:28

thirteenth at 503

34:30

PM. Joey calling

34:32

me back.

34:37

Sent Saturday,

34:42

October thirteenth

34:44

at five forty

34:47

PM. Joe.

34:51

It's Jim Adams. Kinda

34:54

take it in. Alright,

35:00

Bill. We'll see

35:04

again

35:05

sometimes. Since

35:10

Saturday,

35:10

October thirteenth at And the calls kept

35:13

coming in all night long

35:15

and for months to

35:17

come. Hey, Joe.

35:20

Wednesday, May twenty second.

35:24

Tuesday,

35:25

June. Oh, not

35:27

June. Watch over

35:30

your

35:30

Friday, June twenty first -- Five

35:32

five. -- Sunday, July seventh

35:34

-- Eight o. -- Tuesday, July

35:38

twenty third.

35:39

Wish you could tell us who killed

35:41

you. We know you didn't commit

35:44

suicide. We're

35:46

all praying

35:47

for you.

35:48

Me know about you. Can they

35:51

make it a special

35:53

phone call to

35:55

having to say hi. Wonderful

35:57

to hear your voice.

35:59

So just

36:00

call me buddy Bob. Hopefully, you

36:02

met

36:02

him. I miss

36:03

you man. I miss both

36:05

of you guys. Sent Monday, August

36:07

nineteenth at This

36:10

voice mail

36:10

was left by the same retired buffalo

36:14

cop. You heard from in the

36:16

beginning of this

36:17

episode. It's been ten

36:20

months since Father Joe's

36:22

death. It just goes to show you

36:24

how much he was

36:25

missed. Let's go back

36:28

to Sue to hear

36:30

what was going on at the crime scene.

36:34

Why all these calls were coming into father Joe's

36:35

phone? His desk door was

36:38

broken into why would he

36:40

have break into his own

36:42

desk door? In the

36:44

crime scene photos, there's things that are

36:46

moved. Maddie, who

36:48

was downstairs, told them that David

36:50

a puma, the former secretary to the bishop, was

36:53

going through his computer on

36:55

the first floor. That's tampering

36:58

with evidence. From what

36:59

Sue tells us, the crime scene was

37:02

a circus. There are

37:04

alarming red flags all over

37:06

the

37:06

rectory, but the cops are treating

37:08

this like a traffic stop.

37:09

There's no blood splatter at or mistina on his

37:11

arms where he was

37:14

found Do you not look at

37:16

what possibly he was put there?

37:18

I mean, everything was staged.

37:22

There's just so many things that they

37:24

didn't look at. They didn't look at any of the items

37:26

that were missing, his medal of honor,

37:29

the fax machine. They never talked to the

37:31

Buffalo News. They just

37:34

wanted this case

37:35

closed. They wanted it

37:38

shut down. That was directed by the

37:40

Diocese. There are

37:43

valuable missing items

37:46

His desk drawer is evidently broken into. His

37:48

fax machine and filing cabinet are

37:51

gone along with his safe.

37:53

How has crime seen

37:56

protocol not raise suspicion just on these facts

37:57

alone. And what

37:59

is the

38:01

Diocese deputy, the secretary

38:03

to the bishop? David Lapuma

38:06

doing at the crime scene before

38:08

police even

38:09

arrive. And to thank,

38:12

prior to this afternoon, Father Joe has

38:14

done his taxes, paid his

38:16

cell phone bill and bought lottery

38:17

tickets. What

38:20

happens? When they tell the cops that? You they're

38:22

primary answers where I don't know

38:24

and people do that.

38:27

You know, I showed them statistics

38:29

on when a gun is used in

38:32

a suicide. It's

38:34

either in the mouth. It's in the

38:37

temple. under the chin or in the heart, that

38:40

there are no statistics. They

38:42

approve a stitch show

38:44

that someone was shot in the back of

38:46

their head. They don't wanna listen

38:48

to there. They didn't wanna listen to anything.

38:50

We were also told numerous

38:53

times Well, it's not like it is on

38:56

TV. It's not

38:56

like it is on TV, yet the cop

38:58

showed up like they had the script. They

39:01

already knew the story. It

39:04

was a suicide and they just got to move these props around

39:06

to show that. The

39:07

Morinos

39:08

have received a phone call from a friend

39:10

telling them that the cops are putting up

39:13

crime scene tape at Saint Lawrence.

39:15

Sue is beside herself.

39:18

Maybe it's a break in. Maybe

39:20

Joey had to shoot the intruder

39:22

this

39:22

time. They get in

39:24

the car and they fly to St.

39:25

Lawrence. Let's now

39:28

have suit take us to the crime scene.

39:31

I

39:31

can tell you from the

39:33

very beginning when we received

39:36

a call that they were putting up the crime

39:38

scene tape. That I was not allowed to

39:40

identify him. I'm

39:42

next to

39:43

Kim. That was Red

39:46

Flick number

39:48

one. And this place is littered with red flags

39:50

and broken protocols. It

39:52

seems like Sue's the only person

39:54

they're trying to keep out. Maddy,

39:58

who you heard earlier calling frantically

40:00

asking father Joe to tell

40:02

him where he was at around

40:05

three PM. Who is Maddie? Well, he

40:07

was a very good friend of

40:09

Joey's history. Maddie is a parishioner and a

40:11

good friend of father, Joe, who helped him

40:13

with his church duties. He

40:15

was at the church before the police.

40:18

And while Deacon Paul

40:21

discovered Father

40:23

Joe's body, and then proceeded to call David

40:26

Lopuma before the police.

40:28

And Maddie was in the kitchen standing there

40:30

the whole

40:32

time. Now being questioned by the cops, he saw a

40:34

puma going to Joey's computer on the first

40:35

floor. Oh, he visually saw

40:37

him doing it. Yeah.

40:40

So that's right there is tampering with

40:42

evidence. Maddie would

40:42

be our best informant since he

40:45

was at the church when father

40:47

Joe's body was discovered. He heard

40:49

things being moved around in the rectory.

40:51

However, unfortunately, he's passed on,

40:54

so we only have

40:56

recorded conversations. In

40:58

anecdotes, he's left behind to tell us what

41:01

he knew. October

41:03

twenty twelve. Two

41:06

fifty five

41:07

PM. I went up and I asked

41:10

Virginia. His father,

41:11

drove called in.

41:12

He said he's

41:14

no. Got you. I got on my phone. I called,

41:17

hung up. Wait

41:19

a little

41:20

while. Call

41:22

back again. The last week.

41:26

So about ten to

41:28

three months of my last

41:30

call. Call

41:32

of December.

41:33

And all of a sudden, I got hit in the stomach. And

41:35

I know something was

41:37

wrong. Something happened to

41:40

father Joe. Robert

41:42

came out.

41:42

He got to

41:43

his name. He

41:44

came out. He

41:45

tried and I

41:45

told him, I said, oh, he did his arrest.

41:47

He said, oh,

41:48

I got

41:48

father Joe's number. I said, well, bye.

41:51

I said, all

41:51

you gotta do is get

41:53

the recipe. I brought back into the chapel and I would

41:55

pass Carol, and I told Carol, I

41:58

said, I think something happened to find

42:00

a job.

42:00

I'm on the back

42:01

track to see where

42:02

he is. I

42:03

got my jacket, put my

42:05

jacket around and walk

42:06

out of the shop up on my car,

42:09

went backpacking. I think

42:10

it was Saint

42:11

Mary's Church, but they know he wasn't there. That's

42:14

a

42:14

feeling. I

42:16

got down a such.

42:18

Maybe turn around

42:19

right street got into the

42:21

driveway. Car

42:23

was there. Car was there.

42:25

It got out

42:26

find the door valve, bang down the doors. Let's just check

42:29

the windows called closed, shade

42:31

it out, which is

42:34

unusual. It

42:37

is about ten minutes to four or so. Paul

42:40

and his wife came in.

42:44

He got out

42:45

of the car. She

42:46

stayed in,

42:46

and she pulled out a lot. Paul was

42:48

walking on there. So he

42:49

left he's still electric. He said,

42:51

yes. That's the

42:52

open up

42:53

the damn door. I said, I think there's something

42:56

wrong.

42:56

Well, he opened up the

42:57

door. He

43:00

walked in I lost him behind him. me.

43:02

He went in one

43:03

direction and went another direction. on

43:06

a foot side of the

43:08

road. Nothing. One

43:10

thing I know is the place was spotless. It

43:13

wasn't a a Mickey

43:15

Mouse. It wasn't a baseball

43:17

player. It wasn't anything. No

43:19

packs, no badges. Nothing at

43:22

all. He couldn't

43:22

eat off

43:23

the floor. It was so clean in the

43:25

kitchen. No dishes,

43:27

no nothing. Driven

43:28

by the staircase. Ball

43:30

turned around. He said, let me move

43:32

up. So he started up, and I

43:35

followed him up. Got up to the

43:37

first

43:37

landing, put

43:38

my foot on the first step and jumped

43:40

on the phone and he wanted to walk, you

43:43

know, he stayed. I put

43:45

my foot

43:46

down. I was gonna hurt. Oh my god.

43:48

Oh, it came

43:49

over to the door.

43:50

He said that he don't come up.

43:53

And his father

43:53

told her that he

43:56

says he up. And

43:58

he's

43:58

when he's hurt

43:59

when he's shot, you know, what went

44:01

as well? He says, There's a

44:03

gun lying on the floor.

44:05

There is a gun lying

44:07

on the floor, but it

44:09

isn't father Joe's gun, and we'll

44:11

come to find out Almost every report

44:13

about the gun is different, where

44:15

it was, how it

44:17

got there. Well,

44:21

depending on who you talked

44:23

to, the gun is in so many

44:25

different positions. And since

44:28

there was no picture of the gun taken

44:30

in relation, to the

44:32

decedent EU. We don't know.

44:34

And since there was no ballistics

44:36

done, we don't even know if there was really the

44:38

gun that shot him. So

44:41

they the one

44:43

time you see the gun, it's

44:45

in an evidence bag,

44:48

and I There are some bullets that are in the bag

44:50

accompanying with the MPN, and

44:52

there is all that we

44:56

know. But they didn't fingerprint. They

44:58

didn't fingerprint the bullets. They

45:00

they said the reason why they

45:02

ruled it as suicide was there was no

45:04

signs of

45:05

forest entry and the

45:07

DNA was Joey's that was on

45:09

the gun. They didn't do

45:12

ballistics. Why

45:14

not? Now we are going to deep dive into the gun in

45:16

a later episode, but it should be

45:18

noted that the gun placed in an evidence

45:20

bag at the crime scene.

45:23

Was a short barrel thirty eight that had

45:25

been turned into police thirteen

45:28

years earlier in nineteen ninety

45:30

eight. And now not one

45:32

first responder. Can tell

45:34

us where the gun was after the

45:36

supposed suicide.

45:38

Was it in his hand? Was it on

45:40

the floor? Was it in his lap? And

45:42

why was it never photographed before

45:45

it was placed in

45:46

evidence? We were never told

45:48

that the gun was in his hand. The

45:50

fire department, we were told

45:53

by a family member of

45:55

the platoon that the gun

45:57

was on his lap and

45:59

his hands were folded over the gun. That's

46:01

one scenario. That the gun was

46:04

on the floor. The

46:06

the detective who was who

46:09

was in charge of the scene. James

46:11

Lima said that the gun was between

46:13

his leg and the arm

46:15

of the

46:16

chair. We were never told that

46:18

the gun was in his hand. There's no

46:20

pictures of the gun in relation

46:22

to the

46:23

body. And if

46:26

you look at statistics of

46:28

where the gun should have been

46:30

if it was a true

46:32

suicide, none of those scenarios

46:34

that where it should have

46:37

actually

46:37

landed. As

46:40

we go through the crime scene photo, One

46:42

thing is clear. Things keep moving. I

46:44

thought crime scenes were supposed to

46:46

be off limits and untouched. Sue

46:50

mentions to us how many different officers and affiliates

46:53

were there touching

46:56

things.

46:57

When They cleared the crying

47:00

scene. It was John

47:02

King, Pat Cannale, Rhonda

47:04

Shanes and Cindy Box. She

47:08

through the bedding

47:09

out? Why? I don't know.

47:09

Why was she involved in touching her crime

47:12

scene? I was told by the police

47:14

department manager, the crime scene

47:16

is cleared they have.

47:18

They have no control

47:20

who goes into the

47:22

rep into his office.

47:24

Why she threw it out. I have no idea, but she

47:27

also took a duffle bag

47:30

with his

47:32

old will. Folder

47:37

and kun and

47:39

her mom's funeral.

47:42

There was a folder on M and T Bank. She

47:44

signed a promissory note, and that's

47:47

what she was looking for.

47:50

I saw the

47:52

She was looking for a promissory note made to father

47:54

Joe who had loaned her

47:56

money. I'm sure so she

47:58

could posthumously

48:00

pay him back. Regardless,

48:03

pretty suspicious. Now, while

48:04

all the hustle

48:05

and bustle of the crime scene is

48:08

going on, Maddy

48:10

is

48:11

outside and talks to a neighbor

48:14

about hearing

48:16

two gunshots.

48:18

Around two thirty quarter to three. And

48:20

when asked, did

48:21

you tell

48:21

me to advise

48:22

on that? It asked me if I told

48:25

that

48:25

execution. He

48:26

said he heard two POPs

48:27

around, two

48:28

thirty or two quarter three, somewhere around

48:30

that area.

48:31

And I

48:31

talked to my

48:33

show left. I got going his car

48:35

was he blocked me in. Came

48:36

out again, and then

48:37

I was lost. I talked

48:40

to myself. Should

48:42

have, because of the man's

48:43

name or something. And he should have,

48:46

because the cops weren't investigating a

48:48

murder, they were playing it like it was

48:50

a suicide. They

48:52

weren't interviewing neighbors. They

48:54

didn't even interview Maddie, but

48:56

what he heard or saw. They

49:00

just wanted to get

49:01

the body to die in

49:03

Verdes and get

49:06

home.

49:07

Next, call went to the medical examiner's

49:10

office to identify him, and I was

49:12

denied that.

49:14

Then We

49:17

do not know how he

49:19

got to Lumberto's funeral

49:22

home. We the

49:24

autopsy was supposed to be done

49:27

on Monday, October fifteenth.

49:31

We went to make the funeral arrangements,

49:34

and Joey's body was already at

49:36

Lombardo's. So

49:38

I am not sure how that happened because Joey

49:41

never discussed his final

49:44

wishes. There

49:46

was nothing written

49:48

out that said he wanted to

49:50

be laid out at Lombardo's.

49:52

I'm not saying that. They

49:55

did not good job and took good care

49:57

of him. But I have

50:00

questions as to why he

50:02

went there. But

50:04

as the marinos were trying to track down Joey's body,

50:06

they soon realized they

50:08

couldn't trust who they used to.

50:11

And pretty soon, anonymous

50:14

tips started to filter

50:16

in.

50:16

There are people that

50:20

know that that Joey

50:22

was

50:23

murdered. The recent email that you

50:26

speak of mentions that there's

50:28

three people that

50:30

are involved. And it doesn't stop there. The

50:32

undercover spy work keeps

50:34

happening. When we started this

50:38

investigation, Sue had received an anonymous thirty

50:40

plus page handwritten letter

50:42

in the mail. Annonymous

50:44

communications from

50:46

Italy. And let's not forget that

50:48

father Joe had a meeting with the Papal Nuncio

50:50

of Rome. The following

50:54

Monday, already

50:57

scheduled.

50:57

Exactly. And and whatever it

51:00

was that Joey was gonna expose, it

51:02

was high enough for

51:04

this level of corruption to to

51:06

continue. If

51:08

they would have ruled it,

51:10

a a robbery gone bad

51:12

our friend our family would have grieved. We would have moved

51:15

on. But the absurdity

51:18

that he

51:20

was distraught because he

51:22

wasn't named pastor. Just

51:26

nonsense. And

51:28

and I'm not saying that this would have been an easy case for

51:30

them to solve, but they

51:33

had ample motives that

51:35

were given to that. And

51:37

they didn't follow-up on the investment. They

51:40

didn't follow-up on the

51:42

abuse. They've always

51:46

been told when there's a pedophile

51:48

priest that got caught turn

51:50

him over to the bishop. They should be

51:52

criminally charged like you

51:54

or I would be if

51:56

we molest of a

51:56

child. And that doesn't happen in in

52:00

Western Europe. Thank

52:02

you guys so much for listening. And if you're enjoying

52:05

the show, please take the time to

52:07

leave a five star rating and positive

52:09

review on Apple Podcasts

52:11

or wherever you listen.

52:14

Thank you.