1:54

plus

2:00

one bottle of hand soap, and it comes in beautiful

2:02

light scents like Iris Agave,

2:05

Fresh Lemon and Eucalyptus Mint. And

2:07

I'm here to deliver you 15% off your first order. You

2:11

can go to blueland.com slash Dear Hank.

2:13

You won't want to miss this. blueland.com

2:16

slash Dear Hank. That's blueland.com

2:19

slash Dear Hank.

2:25

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank

2:28

and John. This

2:30

is

2:30

very weird to do the intro. That's right. Or

2:33

as I prefer to think of it, Dear John and Hank. It's

2:35

a podcast where two brothers answer your questions,

2:37

give you dubious advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars

2:39

and AFC Wimbledon. John, did you know that you can get rid of most

2:42

cancers with just a water gun? Oh, is

2:44

that so?

2:45

Yeah, it works on on Libras and Capricorns

2:48

as well. Wait,

2:50

what? Oh, you mean like I...

2:53

Okay. First off, I'm not

2:56

going to workshop your joke because you have

2:58

cancer. And it

3:00

wouldn't be appropriate. Secondly,

3:03

I do have some notes. What?

3:08

I think it works. I

3:11

tried this on someone else and it also failed. But

3:13

to me, it's a good joke. It's the get

3:15

rid of because that implies like

3:17

a level of elimination

3:20

or

3:20

like complete killing.

3:23

And then like I've got to reimagine this

3:26

as just like force

3:28

them to depart from within 50 feet

3:31

of me. Yeah. As the definition

3:33

of get rid of. So I think the place to look- Is

3:35

the get rid of is the problem? Is the get

3:37

rid of. Like, do you know that you can

3:40

something else most cancers

3:42

with just a water gun? Yeah. Annoy,

3:45

frustrate, discourage.

3:48

It's tricky. It's tricky. Yeah. So

3:51

this is a different episode

3:53

from usual. That's right. Hank-

3:56

Do you want me to go through the whole thing? I

3:59

know that you're the main- if you're cancer diagnosis,

4:02

but can I tell you what

4:04

it was like for me? Yeah,

4:07

sure. Let's do

4:09

that. Then you can tell your story.

4:12

Okay. So, Sarah and I went to Sierra

4:14

Leone, and before

4:16

we left for Sierra Leone, Hank and

4:18

I had a few conversations where he would just mention

4:20

his health, which is very unusual. Like,

4:24

I'm the one who mentions my health

4:26

in our conversations. I'm

4:28

the one who worries about health. And

4:30

I was really quite worried about this because

4:33

it was unusual, and

4:35

I thought maybe it was just like a

4:38

symptom of you being overextended

4:40

and overworked. Sure, that

4:42

makes sense.

4:43

And then we

4:46

went to Sierra Leone, and when we

4:48

were, you seemed weird when we

4:50

were in Sierra Leone. Like, I would call you,

4:52

and I would be like, you cannot believe

4:54

how amazing this 48,000 square foot hospital is, all

4:59

the good it's gonna do, it's just incredible. And you

5:01

would be like, that is incredible. And,

5:04

but you just seemed off. Yeah. And

5:06

like a little, like you were struggling to get to

5:09

the level of excitement that I was feeling. And

5:11

then when we had a long trip home, and when

5:13

we were in the car on the way home, dad

5:15

picked us up, our dad picked

5:18

Sarah and I up. And he

5:21

basically immediately told us that

5:23

you'd just had a biopsy,

5:27

and that

5:28

you'd had an MRI earlier

5:30

in the week, and

5:32

there was a lot of suspicion

5:35

that you might have some

5:37

kind of cancer in your lymph nodes.

5:41

And that

5:43

was scary, but I think for the first

5:45

few days also, we were all able to tell ourselves

5:47

like, well, maybe it's nothing. And even

5:50

doctors were like, it could very well be nothing.

5:53

And then you heard from the surgeon that

5:58

it was definitely not nothing. And

6:00

then

6:01

I think everybody who loves you and

6:04

who knew was really,

6:06

really scared for a while. And

6:09

I was with mom and dad a lot. And then we found

6:12

out that you have Hodgkin's lymphoma,

6:14

which is a

6:16

very treatable,

6:18

very curable form of lymphoma. There's

6:21

a lot known about it. There's

6:24

been a good

6:26

treatments for a while now. And

6:31

that

6:32

made it easier for all of us, I think,

6:34

a little less scary, a little more known.

6:37

But man, you know the main thing that I've

6:40

been thinking about the last 10 days, and I know that

6:42

you don't want me, or the last two weeks or

6:44

whatever, three weeks, I don't know how long it's been. But

6:47

I know that you don't want me to be sentimental

6:50

and everything.

6:51

And I know that we have a lot to talk about, but like, so

6:53

I don't really wanna like front load the

6:56

emotion part of it. But

6:59

you're my oldest friend.

7:01

You're my brother. You're

7:05

the person I trust most

7:08

in the world other than my spouse. Everything

7:11

I've made in my professional life, I've

7:13

made either with you or to impress

7:15

you.

7:20

I can't imagine life without both

7:22

of us. Like

7:24

the thing that is, like when I imagine myself

7:26

dying, which I do, I don't know, six

7:29

or 700 times a day, the

7:31

thing that is most unbearable is not

7:33

to think about dying, it's to think about like

7:36

my kids and Sarah and

7:38

you.

7:39

And so it just,

7:41

here's the thing, the basic thing I wanna

7:44

say is that like the great joy of my,

7:46

or one of the biggest joys of my life has been

7:50

the fact that in adulthood, we've

7:52

been able to be in it together,

7:54

in all kinds of things together, in

7:57

making stuff together, in hard times together,

7:59

in frustration. together and like struggling

8:02

to fathom the political environment

8:05

in which we find ourselves together. Like all

8:08

of that, we've been able to be in it together.

8:11

And I know that we can't be

8:13

all the way in it together with this,

8:16

but I'm with you.

8:18

And I want to be as together

8:20

as we can be, I guess. Yeah, I

8:23

mean, it's, I feel like

8:25

I've already learned a lot about how to be

8:27

in this situation, even though I've only been in this

8:29

situation for like, oh, so

8:31

as you're, as you're hearing this, the

8:34

Vlogbrothers video would have come out a

8:37

few days ago. Yeah, maybe we should

8:39

just, maybe we should back up and you tell your

8:41

part of the story. Okay, just

8:43

start, okay, yeah, sure. I mean, so

8:46

I had shingles

8:49

a while back, a

8:51

bunch over the summer, which

8:53

can be coincident with lymphoma

8:55

in both ways. Where

8:58

like, you can get it because you have lymphoma,

9:01

but you can also, like the

9:03

lymphoma can kind of get, like you can kind of have

9:06

lymphoma-like

9:06

stuff going on and then it can get

9:08

triggered by shingles.

9:12

So

9:13

just because you have that sort of long-term

9:15

intense infection. So anyway,

9:18

but it also could have nothing to do with

9:20

it. So I had this three

9:22

bouts of shingles, which is very weird, but

9:25

I was on humira at the time for my colitis

9:27

and they figured that's probably because

9:29

of the humira. And in fairness, when I

9:31

started taking, when I stopped taking the humira,

9:34

I stopped having shingles. But

9:36

the last bout I had was across

9:38

the top of my chest and into my armpit. And

9:41

shingles, if you don't know,

9:43

it's an infection of the nerves

9:45

that is the same virus as chickenpox. So

9:47

chickenpox like hangs out in your nervous system and then if your

9:49

immune system gets lowered, you

9:52

get, you can get shingles. And so it's

9:54

terribly painful rash, basically,

9:57

where your nerves are infected with this virus.

9:59

Oh, God, that sounds so painful.

10:02

It hurts a lot. Just the phrase,

10:04

your nerves are infected with this virus

10:07

is very evocative of physical

10:09

pain. Yeah. And after

10:11

that, my armpit remained

10:13

swollen. And then I went to see

10:15

the doctor, and they were like, there's probably nothing. And then it

10:18

remained swollen. And then I went to the doctor, and they were

10:20

like, OK, well, let's get a scan. And

10:23

it was pretty

10:25

obvious immediately

10:27

that this was not

10:30

something that probably wasn't a big

10:33

deal. It was like, this could very well

10:35

be a big deal. And the

10:37

tech who was doing my

10:39

ultrasound was like, you should stay here.

10:42

Usually there's a doctor who I can go grab.

10:44

Because usually

10:46

the tech is like, they don't say anything. That's

10:49

not their job. You'll get your results in a

10:51

couple of days. Yeah. But the

10:54

doctor sort of explained what it was exactly

10:56

about the ultrasound that looked suspicious.

10:59

And I couldn't tell you. It was like, there's

11:02

been a facepent of the fatty hila or

11:04

something like that. And I'm like, OK. I'm sure.

11:07

I believe you that it's worrying. So

11:11

I got to get scheduled for a biopsy, and then

11:13

that happened. And then it takes

11:14

a while for the biopsy results to come back. Sometimes a really

11:16

long time, because they're not like with

11:19

certain problems, it can be

11:21

a bunch of different things. And they have to do

11:23

genetic testing, et cetera. But with this,

11:26

it took a couple of days. And

11:29

there was that period that was probably

11:32

the worst bit so far between finding

11:34

out that it was

11:36

lymphoma specifically, which did mean

11:38

that it wasn't a number of other things that it could

11:40

have been that would have been bad, which would be

11:42

like a melanoma that had

11:45

moved my lymph nodes or something like that. So

11:48

that would have been worse than

11:50

this.

11:51

But

11:53

the period of time between finding out

11:55

that we're going to have

11:57

to do cancerous testing.

11:59

which is good to find out because

12:02

you can start some balls rolling

12:03

and finding out what kind it was

12:06

was the worst part and like It was

12:08

like you would not believe how

12:10

Giddy I was finding out

12:12

that it was Hodgkin's like it was Ridiculous

12:16

because you know, that's it's a different

12:18

game than a lot of lymphomas. Yeah,

12:21

it was good news amid the bad news Not

12:24

that other you know, there's just a lot of forms

12:27

of lymphoma of non Hodgkin's

12:29

lymphoma There's like over 60 and

12:31

some of them are very treatable

12:34

and some of them are really really difficult to treat

12:36

Yeah, I mean sometimes you don't even treat like

12:38

certain kinds of of non Hodgkin's It's just like

12:40

oh you've got it But like we're gonna keep an eye on

12:43

you until it gets bad and then we'll treat

12:45

you because the treatment and that's another thing That

12:47

I've learned if you're curious,

12:48

this is all about balancing,

12:50

you know with with Hodgkin's

12:53

Specifically but really with all cancer

12:55

and chemotherapy. It's about balancing You

12:58

know the side effects of the treatment with

13:01

the

13:01

potential positive outcomes, right? So

13:03

you could go

13:05

Way harder than they're gonna go.

13:07

Mm-hmm on me because they're

13:09

gonna like let it go and And

13:12

see how it responds and then like, you

13:14

know with Hodgkin's usually it responds pretty

13:16

well And then they give you some time

13:19

to see if it comes back and they monitor you for

13:21

a long time Usually doesn't come back and if it

13:23

does then they just go again and usually it

13:25

responds well the second time so Or

13:28

they do radiation or they do immunotherapy like this

13:30

and there's like a bunch of treatments that exist now that didn't

13:32

exist right, you know even even five

13:34

years ago

13:35

and so the it's

13:38

about like trying to Because

13:40

the end because like the chemo can have side effects that

13:42

are you know Not like you

13:44

feel bad for a month You can get some damage

13:47

to your heart or some damage to your lungs and like

13:49

so you got to watch out for that

13:51

Right. It's all kinds of long-term side effects too.

13:53

It increases certain risks long term So

13:56

right and the radiation is the same way where you know,

13:58

you don't want to do radiation on that

13:59

the first go because you're increasing the odds

14:02

of future problems.

14:05

Future cancers. Um, this,

14:08

the week that we're recording this is kind of my week from

14:10

hell. Monday's great. Uh,

14:13

Tuesday I'm prepping for a colonoscopy

14:15

because I had to, I was, I had a

14:18

colonoscopy scheduled and they really want to do it,

14:20

both to see like how my current treatment

14:22

regimen is working and just for screening reasons.

14:25

And we've been postponing it because of, uh,

14:27

because my treatment has been changing. Uh,

14:30

but they don't want you to do a colonoscopy after you've

14:32

started chemo because it can increase chances

14:34

of complications. So they like moved it up.

14:37

So tomorrow I start, I start the prep for

14:39

my colonoscopy. Then I get the colonoscopy. Then

14:41

I get my PET scan and my chemo

14:44

port. That PET scan will tell me how,

14:46

like what stage lymphoma, how

14:49

much this is. Um, as

14:51

of right now, it seems like the, since

14:53

I'm feeling fine and the scans

14:55

did not show it, my MRI didn't

14:57

show it in any other places. That's

14:59

probably very early,

15:01

um, and the progression of the disease, but

15:04

we'll confirm that because MRIs don't

15:06

show everything

15:07

with the PET scan. And then I start

15:10

chemo on Friday. Yeah.

15:11

Um, which as of the recording of this podcast,

15:15

uh, is three days ago or the release

15:17

of this podcast. Right. So, right.

15:19

So as you're listening, Hank

15:21

has already started treatment and

15:23

he's on the road. Yeah. There's

15:25

a little bit of, so

15:28

we don't argue much. I often say that we've

15:30

only had one argument, uh,

15:32

which was at VidCon, but, but you've

15:35

pointed out that really we've, we've had more arguments

15:37

than that. It's just that only one really erupted

15:40

into a full, I

15:43

don't even think you raised your voice necessarily, but like,

15:45

you know what I mean? Like, so I

15:47

would actually argue that our, our second biggest

15:50

argument behind the

15:52

argument that we had at VidCon when the Gregory

15:54

brothers, um, video

15:57

was malfunctioning is about.

16:00

the what the next six months look

16:02

like because One

16:04

well one I mean yeah, but I think

16:07

we should have I I think it's a good idea

16:09

to have this out Yeah, let's model

16:11

how we have arguments Hank Well, I

16:13

I think we're probably gonna come to the same

16:15

place, which is where I'm at I think that we're

16:17

gonna end up where I am John

16:19

as we always do. That's why we never

16:21

have arguments Is because

16:24

I always had Hank Hank just

16:26

Hank just slowly delivers me to his

16:28

place No, sometimes I I

16:30

remain passionately opposed to Hank's position.

16:33

Yeah Yeah, yeah

16:35

So so here's what I think I

16:38

and the argument just the argument just to be clear

16:40

is about it's about work It's

16:42

about Dear Hank and John. It's about vlogbrothers.

16:45

It's about all the stuff that we we do together and

16:48

this is look like

16:50

it's complicated because Obviously

16:54

work is not the most important thing but work

16:56

is isn't really important you

16:58

know, like

16:59

there are over a hundred people who

17:01

work for either DFTBA or or

17:04

complexly and

17:06

You know for whom Hank is ultimately their

17:08

CEO and so it's

17:10

not an insignificant thing and then there's the

17:12

community of of Nerdfighteria

17:15

and and the community of people who listen to this

17:17

podcast and We

17:20

are conscious while we know that

17:22

you know Everybody listening is

17:24

only wants the best for Hank and only

17:26

wants whatever is gonna be good

17:28

and helpful for him You know, we're also

17:31

conscious of the fact that

17:34

this isn't just hard for Hank It's

17:36

also hard for everybody who cares about Hank

17:39

which includes people who listen

17:41

are listening right now and includes

17:43

people who care about our videos and people

17:45

who work for complexly and DFTBA,

17:48

you know, there's

17:50

so many people around the world who

17:52

are thinking of and dare

17:54

I say it Hank praying for Hank

17:57

and

17:58

We want to be conscious of that

18:00

and while also

18:02

finding our way through, because it's complicated.

18:07

And so I think my impulse is to say,

18:09

like,

18:10

Hank needs to be on sabbatical, like,

18:13

let's set some absolute boundaries.

18:16

And I think Hank's impulse is more like, let's

18:18

see how I feel. And that's right.

18:20

Like, the thing I don't want to do is set

18:23

myself up to not have anything to do. Right,

18:25

I get that. I totally get that. Yeah,

18:28

and your response to that, which I get is

18:30

like, just hang out, read books,

18:32

watch TV, go for walks, do restorative

18:34

yoga. And I'm like, yes. Yeah,

18:38

but I need, I, you know,

18:40

there's a bunch of stuff that I feel

18:42

good at when I'm doing it. Right.

18:45

And that I feel better

18:47

after I'm done. Right. And, you

18:49

know, I kind of expected, because I like went

18:52

in to shoot SciShow

18:54

the sort of like three days after

18:56

I found out

18:57

and hadn't really

18:59

told anybody yet, except

19:01

for a couple of high level people at Complexly and DFTBA.

19:04

And I was like, I'm going to be so tired

19:06

after this. I'm going to be so exhausted. Because

19:08

like, because I was really like, so

19:11

I got the biopsy where they actually

19:13

remove your whole lymph node or a whole

19:15

lymph node so that they can get a really good look

19:17

at what's going on inside. And I, and like

19:19

after that, I felt really tired. And I was, and

19:22

then like four days later, I still felt really tired.

19:24

And I was like,

19:26

this is the lymphoma. I'm like, I have lymphoma

19:28

fatigue. And then I just kept

19:30

getting less tired every day. And it turned out

19:33

that I had surgery fatigue and I had

19:35

stress fatigue and I had maybe, you know,

19:37

painkiller fatigue and, you

19:40

know,

19:40

buse barre fatigue just because, you know, I

19:42

was get as drowsy because of taking an anti-anxiety because

19:45

I was really freaked out. And

19:47

so that, and I go on

19:49

a film SciShow and it was a light

19:51

shoot day. And then I do tangents.

19:54

And at the end of that, I felt

19:56

the best I had felt since

19:59

like the, the. the first worrying scan. And

20:02

I was like, okay, this is important

20:04

data because honestly, what

20:06

I do want to do is

20:09

lay in bed and feel like crap.

20:11

Like I totally wanna do that. I'm into that. Like

20:15

that's what my brain is pushing for

20:17

a lot of the time and I don't

20:19

feel better in that situation. And so I want

20:22

to figure out things to work on that

20:25

are low lift, low stress

20:29

that are not,

20:31

and like,

20:32

honestly also I need to be doing physical

20:34

things though that's gonna be extra

20:37

hard I think. Biggest

20:39

side effect of chemo is the thing that everybody

20:41

has is fatigue. And so like

20:44

what I want is to not have to do anything,

20:47

but

20:49

to do things that make me, like when I feel

20:51

up to it, to

20:57

do things that make me feel good. And

20:59

like, I have

21:01

been journaling, which I never do because

21:05

it's felt very necessary. And

21:07

I've been writing, just

21:10

writing some stuff that's

21:12

not journaling, but

21:14

I have no idea what direction it's moving in. I

21:16

love to hear that though. With no goal. That's

21:19

the best kind. No goal. And

21:21

what I don't want is to be in a situation where

21:24

I think I'd feel better if I

21:26

made a podcast or

21:28

made a vlog with this video or went into shoot SciShow

21:31

and people are like, no, you can't.

21:33

Right, right. And I absolutely

21:36

understand that. And you

21:38

know what, we were gonna have an argument and I

21:41

completely acquiesce. Like I agree with,

21:44

unfortunately, I agree with everything he said.

21:47

I can't model how to have an argument except

21:49

to say that I am concerned that

21:53

you feel obligations even

21:55

when everyone works really hard to have

21:58

you not feel them.

21:59

So I just want you to be conscious of that. Right.

22:02

So I have a couple of questions

22:05

from what you just shared. But

22:07

the first thing is that for the next like four to

22:09

six to 12 months, depending on

22:12

treatment and lots of other things,

22:15

you're not going to have a weekly Dear Hank and John.

22:18

You may not have any Dear Hank

22:20

and John, except for the like 600 episodes

22:22

that we've already made, half of which you haven't listened

22:24

to. And

22:27

we encourage you to listen to those episodes

22:29

because we will be keep... John will be

22:31

recording new advertisements because

22:34

we have obligations to... That's

22:36

a weird thing, but like we have to have an ad

22:39

break in this one because we... Well,

22:42

we need to. Like this wasn't obvious,

22:45

just to state the obvious, like we didn't have

22:47

this in the budget. Well, we

22:49

also like have, you know, we

22:52

could cancel the contracts, but we have contracts

22:55

and it exists already. Yeah,

22:57

and we may have to cancel the contracts. That's not a big deal.

23:01

As the person who's taking over for Hank

23:03

and some of these CEO

23:05

roles, I look forward to those

23:08

phone calls where I can be like, we're canceling

23:10

this contract. And if you are

23:13

mean about

23:14

it,

23:14

you kind of stop. Just

23:19

so you know, we're like... Square that with your

23:21

own conscience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:24

Just like, you know, which is not to

23:26

say like we expect advertisers to

23:28

spend money on things that aren't being

23:30

advertised or like impressions that don't exist, but

23:32

we do expect advertisers to be cool

23:35

about us taking some

23:37

time off and then not charging them.

23:41

We do expect that to be cool. So

23:43

anyway, for the next four

23:44

to six to 12 months, depending

23:47

on how everything goes treatment wise, we

23:49

don't know how often, if at all,

23:52

there will be new episodes of Dear Hank and

23:54

John because we just don't want to put that

23:56

pressure on Hank.

23:58

Yeah, and I... I like doing

24:00

it. So, of course.

24:03

And if you call me and you say, I'd

24:05

like to record a podcast right now, I'm

24:09

done watching Netflix and

24:11

I'm done writing and I wanna record

24:13

a podcast, I'll be like, great, let's record a podcast.

24:16

But

24:17

I don't wanna have the expectation that that's gonna

24:19

happen for

24:20

listeners or for us because

24:24

we just don't know. And I think making

24:26

space for you to feel however you're

24:28

gonna feel is the

24:30

right call. Right,

24:31

and if you wanna watch a bunch or listen

24:34

to a bunch of old deer hanging Johns.

24:36

Oh, we've got some. That's, they're there. And we got some.

24:38

They're ready for you. That's great.

24:40

Yeah. Get those impressions.

24:42

Yeah. To deliver. No,

24:46

no, we're fine. Everything's

24:49

fine. If you've joined

24:51

the Patreon, we'd love it if you stayed.

24:53

We will be back. Yeah.

24:57

And we should say like, just

25:00

so nobody worries, like the money from this podcast

25:02

doesn't go to us, it goes to Complexly to support

25:04

stuff like SciShow and Crash Course and all the other

25:07

stuff that gets made there. And

25:09

the folks working behind the podcast who

25:11

we're so grateful

25:12

to for their flexibility,

25:15

especially the last few weeks are

25:18

gonna be fine as well. So

25:21

don't worry on our account, we just wanna

25:23

apologize for the fact that we do have to have an ad

25:25

break, which reminds me, Hank.

25:29

Yep.

25:29

Oh, this is gonna be hard. Today's

25:32

podcast is brought to you

25:34

by. I'll

25:41

tell you, man. I'll tell you,

25:44

it's all been fun and games for the

25:46

last five years, but turns out,

25:49

you gotta get life insurance, guys.

25:56

Let's just roll the ads. You

25:59

don't wanna do another. I had a couple

26:01

in mind. Oh,

26:03

okay, what do you got? No,

26:07

at the moment I had one, but then here's

26:10

something that's been happening to me in the last month. Like

26:12

my mind will go utterly blank,

26:15

utterly.

26:17

Like

26:19

so blank that I'm like, did I just achieve

26:22

enlightenment? Do I exist? No,

26:25

for me, it's more like, is that, did

26:27

I just glimpse nirvana?

26:31

There's nothing. There's just nothing there. There's

26:33

no suffering because there's no desire because

26:35

there's nothing. Yeah.

26:39

So yeah, anyway, here's

26:41

maybe some ads. I don't know if we sold

26:43

these impressions.

26:45

So John, I have a question for

26:48

you. Great.

26:49

What's my job like? You've

26:51

done a little bit of it in the last week or

26:53

two. How is it? Oh my God.

26:56

Oh well, I don't know what it's like normally. It's

26:59

not easy

27:00

and it's not as easy as you make

27:02

it out to be and it's very time

27:05

consuming and I don't know how you do

27:07

other stuff. Like I do

27:09

not know how you did this job

27:12

or these jobs being the CEO of

27:14

DFTBA and Complexly and

27:17

wrote two novels. I

27:19

don't understand how you did that. I also

27:21

have a hard time figuring that out. Here's what I'll say

27:23

about your job. You work with amazing

27:25

people and that makes it bearable.

27:29

But

27:34

it is not an easy job. I'll

27:37

tell you what, after two weeks of kind of

27:39

doing your job, I'm very, very

27:41

impressed. And by

27:43

the way, you've still been doing much

27:45

of your job. Like I don't really

27:48

fully

27:50

take on your jobs until

27:52

like Wednesday, a couple of days from

27:54

now and I'm quaking in my boots, man.

27:57

Good. John, do you wanna know?

27:59

What were some things I've learned about being a cancer

28:02

patient? Yeah, yeah. Are

28:04

these gonna be dad jokes as well? Or are these gonna

28:06

be actual observations based

28:08

on eight days of experience? The

28:11

other dad joke I had was, what's

28:14

the most expensive haircut you can get? About

28:18

see that is a great joke.

28:23

Yeah, it's not only is it expensive,

28:25

it's not great. Yeah, it's a bad haircut

28:27

and it takes forever. It's

28:30

weeks. Weeks

28:32

of individual hairs getting cut one at a time.

28:35

How do you feel about the prospect, just

28:37

to turn it back to you, because I know you're trying to make

28:39

it about me for a minute, but how do you feel about

28:41

the prospect of losing your

28:44

hair? Is that an emotional

28:46

connection for you? Yeah, I

28:48

worry about it

28:50

a little bit when it cut. Like, so

28:52

like there's two, there's a bunch of reasons

28:54

why I might not make YouTube videos, obviously.

28:58

But hair being one of them is interesting

29:00

to think like, I don't know if like,

29:03

I talked about this in my vlog with this video, but I don't

29:05

know, like I don't, this

29:08

is an identity that I'm having put upon me by

29:10

reality. And I don't know

29:13

how, to what extent I want to lean into it.

29:17

But you know, it's just our bodies,

29:20

it's just, I am also

29:22

worried about how Orin's gonna feel about it. He's

29:25

not a big fan of change. And

29:28

I think that that might be the thing that like hits

29:32

home the most for him.

29:35

And I honestly

29:37

worry more about my eyebrows than my hair,

29:40

which you can, you know, you can do makeup things

29:42

for sure. But with your eyebrows, they're

29:45

part of how you express yourself

29:47

and part of how you communicate. Yeah, like

29:49

we see lots of people without hair, but

29:52

eyebrows usually stick around unless there's

29:54

a reason. Right. And

29:57

you know, so I've thought about that.

29:59

There's lots of things you can do. You can go full eyebrow

30:02

wig if you want to. Yeah. And

30:04

yeah, so I also

30:06

don't know how to play it exactly because

30:09

there's like two bad

30:11

parts of it. One, you start to get

30:13

really thin hair and two, there's

30:16

hair everywhere. Yeah. And

30:19

so the thing to do is usually once

30:21

it starts to come out, you shave it so that you're

30:23

not like clocking up your drains all the time. Right.

30:27

There's so much more hair on your head

30:29

than you think.

30:29

And so I haven't

30:32

sort of decided how I'm gonna play that one yet. Yeah.

30:35

But yeah, it's definitely, it's a thing that, it's

30:38

a present thought, which is surprising,

30:40

honestly. Well, I think everybody

30:43

responds to it differently, but you're right that

30:45

it's sort of the, it's a very visible

30:47

marker, right? Like

30:50

it's something that's visibly associated with

30:53

cancer for a lot of people.

30:55

And then also for lots of people, like

30:58

their hair is a big part of their self-expression.

31:01

Yeah.

31:01

It's, you know, and I think for you,

31:04

maybe a little bit less so

31:06

since you have had the same haircut since you were

31:08

about eight. But I think the

31:10

part of it that

31:12

I can see being difficult for you

31:14

is that, like you said, it's an identity that

31:16

you didn't choose. And

31:19

I could see how you might not

31:21

feel comfortable with your appearance. But

31:24

I actually think that you might

31:26

be very handsome. We'll see

31:29

what shape my head is. Yeah,

31:31

like there's always the possibility that Oren's gonna

31:33

be like, finally dad looks like

31:35

he's supposed to look.

31:37

So what are the things that you've learned so

31:40

far in your eight days as a cancer

31:42

patient? So. 20 days.

31:44

First, not that much. And

31:47

I have a lot of learning left to do. For sure.

31:50

So I've talked to a lot of people

31:52

who have known about this. And

31:56

here are the best and worst

31:58

things you can say.

31:59

from my experience so far. Great,

32:02

I think this is something everybody needs. Yes,

32:04

I think that this is like the most important learning because

32:07

everybody's gonna know somebody with cancer at the very

32:09

least. Worst thing is

32:11

they ask how you're doing and I say, okay.

32:14

And then they say, but how are you really doing? Oh,

32:16

yeah. This is not what I want

32:18

to do. I would tell you how I'm really

32:20

doing if I wanted to. Also, I have no

32:23

idea how I'm really doing. It's

32:25

very deep and complex. I can't

32:27

dig that deep right now. And I

32:29

really don't

32:29

want to look, thank you. I'm at the grocery store.

32:32

I don't really want to think too hard about how I'm

32:34

doing. Yeah. And

32:37

then on the other hand, the

32:39

best thing someone has said to me is

32:41

I think you're doing really good.

32:43

Like I think you're doing this well. And

32:47

instead of someone asking

32:49

me how I'm doing, because I feel like I'm a big,

32:51

huge pile of mess, just wet garbage,

32:54

being told that

32:57

this is hard and I'm doing a good job

32:59

is like, that's

33:01

what I need to hear. Because I

33:03

don't know if

33:05

I'm doing a good job and

33:08

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.

33:10

Like I know what I'm supposed to be doing, like objectively,

33:13

like I'm on the path, I'm doing the things, I got all the things

33:15

scheduled. And I think I did a

33:17

good job of getting things

33:19

on the rails. But

33:22

like to just hear that

33:24

I'm doing it right feels really

33:26

good. Because that's like

33:28

one of the hardest parts

33:30

of this is that like, it's so new,

33:33

I don't know what it's supposed to feel like or be

33:35

like. And I don't know how to feel. So

33:38

like, just tell me how to feel. That's great. Tell

33:40

me to feel like I'm doing a good job. That will feel

33:42

very good. Yeah.

33:45

Although. Yes. Would

33:47

it feel good if somebody walked up to you in the grocery

33:49

store and said, you're doing a great job? I

33:51

don't know that it would. No, I think it has to be somebody who

33:54

has some awareness of the situation.

33:57

But if somebody walks up to you in a grocery store, the nicest

33:59

thing is,

33:59

And then this thing they can say is, I

34:02

hope you're doing well and

34:05

we're thinking about you. You got this,

34:07

we're rooting for you, that kind of thing.

34:09

Yeah, and that's great. I've gotten lots

34:11

of that. And then like the next time, it's

34:13

like, so

34:16

you're having tacos tonight? Yeah,

34:18

yes, yes. Right,

34:21

like you are still other

34:23

things. Yeah.

34:25

And I

34:27

can imagine that you would not want to

34:29

have your identity diminished

34:32

to this identity you didn't choose.

34:35

Like that includes who you are, that's

34:37

part of who you are, but it's certainly not all

34:39

of who you are.

34:42

Not to take it back to tuberculosis,

34:44

but that's something that I heard a lot from

34:47

people living with MDR-TB, that

34:50

one of the hardest things about it

34:52

is that

34:53

to their social order, to

34:55

their community, and sometimes even to their families,

34:58

they become nothing but a person with

35:00

TB who is therefore

35:03

dangerous, discounted, a threat,

35:08

a representation of a fear rather

35:10

than a person.

35:11

Just one other comment on this or question about this.

35:14

Don't you think worse than how are

35:16

you really feeling would be

35:18

if you reached

35:21

out to a good friend

35:23

to tell them about your cancer diagnosis,

35:25

and then they started crying and said,

35:27

how can this be happening? You do so much yoga.

35:33

That one hasn't happened to me. Which

35:35

is what I said to my dear friend

35:37

Amy.

35:39

So whatever people

35:42

have said to you, Hank, just take solace.

35:44

Yeah.

35:46

The knowledge, it could

35:48

be worse. Could be that. Could

35:51

be that. So when you think

35:54

about what you need, of course, it's

35:56

a one day at a time thing. Like you said,

35:58

you have a lot to learn.

35:59

the future looks like even like five

36:02

days into the future, which must be its

36:04

own kind of stress. But

36:07

do you think that you're going to get

36:10

into a new kind

36:13

of media?

36:14

Because that's like what it seems to me like you will

36:16

have time for. Yeah.

36:18

And I think that that's an opportunity.

36:21

Well, what do you mean, John? I mean.

36:23

Like enjoying it or creating

36:26

it. Hard-boiled noir

36:29

mystery movies from the forties.

36:32

Gotcha. No stakes, lots

36:35

of death, but not any death that you're

36:37

invested in. Not only are all of the

36:39

characters dead, all the actors are dead. This

36:42

is a tricky thing for me because

36:44

I have a hard time. Yeah.

36:48

Enjoying content that I can't

36:51

see myself participating in

36:53

somehow. Whoa.

36:55

Wait, what? So you're telling me

36:57

that like you can't like Star Wars because you're like, I'm

36:59

not a Jedi. No, no, no, no. I watch

37:02

Star Wars and I'm like, yeah, I could

37:04

be that stormtrooper.

37:06

What do you mean you could be that stormtrooper?

37:09

I don't understand. Like in the

37:11

costume. Oh, like

37:13

you could be that. Like the actor. Wait,

37:15

you watch movies and you think like which

37:18

role would I play? I feel like

37:20

I'm bearing my soul too much. I was going to say

37:22

this might actually be the most vulnerable

37:24

moment. Not any of the cancer talk. This

37:28

is real openness right here and I appreciate

37:31

it. And I want to say that I hear

37:33

you that

37:34

when you watch a movie, you

37:36

think what role would I play? Or

37:39

I think like how would I write that scene

37:42

or I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like how would I direct

37:44

it? I'll tell you what, that's perfect with noir

37:46

mystery movies because you'll say how would I write

37:49

this scene? Maybe a little less sexist.

37:55

But

37:55

I think what you'd enjoy about them is the

37:57

clipped humorist.

37:59

Not exactly humorous, but like the clipped,

38:02

sharply observed dialogue.

38:05

Yes, I like that.

38:07

I like that a lot. You

38:09

know what I have been? So like the thing that's been

38:11

best so far, and I expect

38:14

for this to wane some, but

38:16

is anything that's got like

38:18

a joke every five seconds? Wayne's

38:23

world. Yeah, yeah, like

38:25

really silly, funny movies,

38:27

Seinfeld, standup comedy. The

38:31

one where Will Ferrell

38:33

is a professional ice skater. Yeah, like

38:35

that. Yeah. It has to have a lot

38:37

of jokes very fast. Right.

38:40

To keep my brain occupied. They don't even all

38:42

have to land, right? Like that's

38:45

the magic of those movies, is

38:48

the

38:48

jokes don't all have to be good, but

38:50

the quantity has to be incredibly

38:53

high. Yeah, and you know what this means,

38:55

John, is that I've been

38:58

imagining myself

38:59

doing standup

39:02

about cancer. No, please God, please,

39:04

please God, no. I know, I'm being very vulnerable

39:07

right now. The last thing I need

39:10

is Hank Green emerging from

39:12

this experience with a new damn job. That's

39:14

right.

39:15

I can't accept it. I'm gonna be touring America.

39:19

What if something happens? What if you break

39:21

a leg or something, and then I

39:23

have to tour America, just like I have

39:25

to be the CEO of these companies for a few

39:28

months. I don't like that at all. Who

39:30

will think about me? Oh man,

39:33

I don't know, John. Oh God, I have

39:35

to be like be on stage, like doing Hank's jokes.

39:38

That's right. Being like, being like,

39:42

being like Euripides. Eumendides?

39:47

It's a deep cut, it's a deep cut.

39:50

All right, so how

39:53

are you doing really? No

39:56

idea, John. Yeah, I hear

39:58

ya.

39:59

I think the main thing that

40:02

we wanna say though to everybody

40:04

listening is that we

40:07

know this is hard. We know this is tough

40:09

for you. Like Hank and I have had a

40:12

while to talk about

40:14

this and talk about it with family

40:16

and process it and

40:18

dream about it and all that stuff. And

40:21

obviously we know that it's different

40:23

for you than if it was a member of your family,

40:25

but it's also, it is somebody you care about

40:29

and it's scary, it's scary

40:31

for us too. And

40:34

we're sorry to have this bad

40:36

news to drop on you,

40:38

but also, you know

40:40

what? Something I've noticed in the last three weeks,

40:42

Hank. I say a sentence

40:45

that's sad. Like

40:47

this is hard, this is hard, this sucks.

40:50

And then I say, but. Yeah.

40:53

But I don't know what's coming after

40:55

I say, but. Yeah, why did I say that? Why

40:58

did I do that? It's like, is

41:00

this an American thing where like they

41:03

raised us to be and probably

41:06

optimistic and hopeful in the face of all things?

41:09

I don't know what it. Well, I think it's just a human

41:11

thing. You don't wanna tell people just bad news. Right,

41:13

you wanna tell them the butt. Yeah,

41:16

if you haven't watched my Vlogbrothers video, you can watch that.

41:18

It's quite, it's, you know, it's about, it's a little over 10

41:21

minutes long and it has

41:23

some of the butts in it, like that Hodgkin's

41:26

lymphoma is one

41:28

of the better cancers if you're gonna get a cancer.

41:32

It's certainly not lucky because

41:34

it's very, it's actually quite rare. Yeah. But.

41:37

It's lucky as these things go. It's lucky

41:39

as these things go. And the,

41:42

you know, I don't know what the treatment journey is

41:44

gonna look like. No one really knows. This

41:47

is the other thing that I have learned is

41:50

that there isn't a lot of comparability

41:52

between stories. Right. Because

41:55

you don't know how treatment's gonna affect you. Yeah. You

41:58

don't know,

41:59

you know, you don't know a lot.

41:59

about how the disease is progressing.

42:02

Yeah. Because you don't get like a PET scan

42:04

every two days, you know? So like

42:07

you're always in situations

42:10

of uncertainty and you're always in situations

42:13

where there's a bunch of

42:15

new stuff that you don't have control over. And,

42:19

and like, we are always in that situation,

42:22

you know, where, you know, control

42:24

is, is always a bit of an illusion.

42:26

Um, things can always

42:29

change very quickly. And, you

42:31

know, I'm glad to know what's wrong. I'm

42:34

glad to know what to do about it. I'm

42:36

glad. I'm very glad

42:38

that like the financial part of this is not stressing

42:40

me out, which it would be for 99% of Americans.

42:45

Right. Um, I'm very glad, uh, to

42:48

have such great support structures. I'm

42:50

very glad that sort of like what

42:52

to do is known, but like what

42:55

it's going to be like is unknown.

42:57

Yeah. People respond very differently to these

42:59

drugs. The side effect profiles

43:02

are very different person to person. The,

43:04

you know, the cancer responds differently in different

43:07

people. It's so like, sometimes it's

43:09

short and sometimes it's long and you

43:11

just

43:13

don't know until you're through. And so like

43:15

the thing that was the

43:17

first thing anybody said to me when it looked like

43:20

I might have cancer was like, you

43:22

need to start seeing this as what's

43:24

going on today.

43:26

And that's it.

43:29

And if you're thinking about what

43:31

might be in six months, don't

43:34

because you don't know, you just have no

43:36

idea what this is going to be like. So

43:39

just take it day to day. And

43:41

it's very hard for me to do, but

43:44

I am better when I'm doing it

43:46

that way.

43:47

Like I do feel better. Yeah. So. Yeah.

43:50

No, I think that that's the right

43:52

approach. And you're right that

43:54

uncertainty is with us all the time.

43:56

And sometimes we can be hard. Like

43:59

I think sometimes.

43:59

Sometimes we can say like, oh, it's

44:02

always an illusion. Like safety, security,

44:04

certainty is always an illusion. And that's true.

44:06

It is always an illusion, but like, it's

44:09

a privilege to be able to take respite

44:11

in that illusion. And sometimes

44:15

in your life, you will not be able to take respite

44:17

in

44:18

that illusion. And

44:21

that's hard. But I

44:24

did it again. You said what? Isn't

44:26

it weird that this is happening? That's

44:29

the other thing. It's very

44:31

weird. It's very weird. It's

44:33

very weird. It's like, I keep, like

44:35

even now, you know, two

44:38

weeks post diagnosis,

44:40

as you're hearing this, I'm

44:42

like in chemo hangover mode.

44:45

I'm still like, but like

44:47

maybe I don't though. Yeah.

44:50

Like it seems like probably like

44:53

it can't be, that can't be really the

44:55

thing. Yeah, right. I mean,

44:57

the whole thing about, yeah, I mean,

45:00

I feel the same way, like

45:02

on a different scale, obviously,

45:04

because it's not happening to me, but

45:08

that same feeling of like,

45:10

oh, weird. Like,

45:13

this is weird. And there is also

45:15

the weirdness of having to talk about it in

45:18

public, which is weird, but

45:20

it would also be weird to not talk about

45:22

it in public. And certainly, I don't know

45:24

about you, Hank, but when I was 25 years

45:26

old and making a commitment to

45:31

have a public life that I did not understand

45:34

that I was making

45:36

with the publication of my first book,

45:39

it did not occur to me

45:41

that I would have

45:44

to live the

45:47

big moments in life in public, or

45:49

to some extent, but

45:51

it also would have felt, I mean, this is something that we

45:54

talked about a lot at the

45:56

very beginning.

45:56

I was like, whatever, if you wanna

45:59

say, we're taking a second.

45:59

sabbatical because we're taking a sabbatical because I

46:02

got overworked, I'd be like, great, fine.

46:05

But that felt off

46:07

to you. Yeah. Yeah, I

46:09

mean, there are people who have done it that

46:12

way and I

46:14

totally respect that choice.

46:16

Yeah, me too. And understand

46:18

it. You know,

46:21

this is weird. There are like parts of it

46:23

that I'm worried about.

46:24

I'm worried about like,

46:26

I don't think that press is gonna

46:28

care that much or be invasive.

46:32

I am a little, like, I don't, you

46:34

know, if you've been through chemo and you've got like

46:36

advice, I will hear it for sure.

46:38

If you've got like, here's how

46:40

you cure cancer without chemo

46:43

I don't

46:43

need to hear the, I'm sure that's what I'm meaning, but

46:46

like, that's not helpful. That's

46:48

not helpful or honestly, it's not

46:50

real. You know, you

46:53

have to face these things with reality

46:55

and with the clear knowledge

46:58

that we have lots of evidence for what works in

47:00

situations like this and what doesn't. Yeah,

47:02

so in conclusion, if you're a hemock doctor

47:05

or you've been through chemo, by all means,

47:07

send us an email at HankandJonatel.com.

47:11

Otherwise. I've been really glad to hear from

47:13

friends

47:13

and to have some friends who've been through it and they're

47:16

like, you know, ask for

47:18

a second blanket and make sure you

47:20

bring a snack. And, you

47:22

know, the nurses like it when you bring cookies, like

47:25

all of that is great. Very

47:27

into that. And also like, you know,

47:29

maybe like I probably should be doing

47:32

some physical activities that I'm

47:34

capable of. So that's also

47:36

something I need to think about. And

47:39

so I, you know, I've been reading the

47:41

subreddits and watching

47:43

the YouTube videos and it's great to have those resources

47:46

for sure. Yeah, but to go back to

47:48

the point, there are aspects of it being

47:50

public that of course

47:52

are concerning and potentially

47:55

challenging. But also

47:58

the relationship that.

47:59

that we've built

48:02

with

48:03

this community is such that over

48:05

the last like 17 years or whatever

48:08

is such that I think for

48:11

both of us, it would be hard not to

48:13

talk about what's going on. Yeah.

48:16

And just disappear. Yeah.

48:18

I mean, I felt bad like canceling those two,

48:21

I had to cancel two college events and it

48:23

was before I had anything definitive. And

48:26

I felt bad just doing that. Yeah.

48:30

I mean, I'm not having a clear reason why. Right. So.

48:34

Right. I do want to address a couple of things

48:36

that I think might come up in response to

48:38

this. First off, like why don't

48:41

you do Dear John and Sarah or

48:43

Dear John and guest host for a few months?

48:46

I think the short answer is because I don't want to.

48:48

At its core, this is a podcast

48:51

where two brothers answer your questions, give

48:53

you dubious advice and bring you all the week's news from

48:55

both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. And I don't really

48:57

want to lose that. I certainly don't want to lose it for

48:59

months. And also unlike

49:02

Hank, I don't know that I have the capacity

49:05

to do all this stuff well. And

49:07

so that's the other reason. The

49:10

same may go for Vlogbrothers videos. I have

49:13

no idea. Yeah. And, but

49:16

it's, you know, it's Vlogbrothers. Like

49:18

that's what

49:18

it's always been. Yeah, I think that. Yeah,

49:21

I totally agree. And I, like

49:23

that's what I want and it shouldn't matter. Nothing

49:25

else should matter right now. Yeah,

49:28

yeah. And so that's

49:30

a great card to be able to play. And,

49:34

you know,

49:34

I also want to keep making

49:36

videos. They might

49:38

look different in one way or another and

49:41

they might be more infrequent.

49:45

And I don't know. And maybe there won't be any, but

49:47

like where I'm at right now, I

49:49

like making YouTube videos and it's easy

49:51

not to brag,

49:54

but I know how to do it. When you've done something 1400

49:57

times, it's

49:59

easier than it is.

49:59

that it used to be, that's for sure. It's way

50:02

easier for you than it is for me. Every time I

50:04

see your workflow, I'm just like, oh, that's

50:06

how he does it in three hours

50:08

instead of 10. But yeah,

50:11

I mean, my feeling about that is basically

50:13

like, if you call me and tell me you wanna do a podcast,

50:16

we'll make a podcast. And if you call me and tell

50:18

me you're gonna make a Vlogbrothers video on Friday, I'll

50:20

make one on the Tuesday before and the Tuesday

50:23

after or something like that. But like, no,

50:25

I don't think anybody, I honestly, Hank,

50:27

I don't think anybody feels wants

50:30

us to feel, like I don't think anybody is putting pressure

50:32

on us to do that stuff except for us. Yeah,

50:35

and I only wanna do it if it feels

50:37

good. And like editing a video

50:39

is very meditative for me and it is very

50:42

comfortable. It's the best. And

50:44

like recording it.

50:45

Kinda sucks. And writing it is

50:48

the bigger question. Like to what extent am I

50:50

gonna be, like am I gonna

50:52

be interested or able? Yeah. And the

50:54

other thing that if I don't feel like

50:56

recording and editing a video, I have

50:58

thought about whether we could just do like some newsletter

51:01

updates. Yeah. So we, the Dernfighteria

51:03

newsletter, you can find the link to that in the Vlogbrothers video

51:07

and sign up for that if you wanna get updates and

51:09

stuff. And that'll

51:11

be, at least be a point of contact. Can

51:14

I tell them about

51:15

how you tried to launch another, gosh

51:17

darn. I think, still think this is a good idea. Business

51:20

venture in the midst of this. Well, yeah,

51:22

sure. I flipped my lid. You

51:25

didn't like, John didn't like it. Oh my God, I'm

51:27

still mad. I gave up on that one immediately.

51:30

As soon as I saw the way that

51:32

you had interpreted it, I was like, yeah you were.

51:34

Everybody was gonna, it wasn't gonna be just me. Yeah.

51:39

But yeah, so like I read

51:41

an early draft of Hank's video and

51:43

Hank's video is so beautiful.

51:45

It's so great.

51:48

You did a good job.

51:49

You're doing a good job. But

51:52

the first draft, it was also great.

51:54

It was beautiful. Except at the end,

51:57

you know how like at the end of every YouTube video,

51:59

like every.

51:59

every really effective YouTube video, there's a call

52:02

to action. Like, like and subscribe,

52:04

or please donate to this

52:07

cause, or buy

52:10

awesome coffee at awesomecoffeeclub.com. More

52:13

necessary than ever. Whatever

52:15

it is. Hank's call

52:17

to action at the end of the dang video

52:19

was, I don't know how many Vlogbrothers

52:22

videos I'm gonna be making, but I'm starting up

52:24

a new business. It's a newsletter.

52:27

It's a newsletter business. It says sign

52:29

up for my brand new newsletter.

52:32

And I was like, if you do that,

52:34

if you start, if you reset, if

52:37

you reset the clock on

52:40

how long has it been since Hank Green started

52:42

a thing, after,

52:45

just after getting diagnosed with cancer,

52:47

like everyone is gonna be as mad

52:50

as I am. Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking

52:52

a fresh, a nice fresh newsletter with,

52:55

you know, for. We got a news, we

52:57

got a newsletter. We have a newsletter

52:59

and it's great. It is good. It

53:01

provides a high quality newsletter

53:03

experience to

53:04

its tens of thousands of subscribers.

53:07

The last thing we need is a new thing. That's

53:09

a good point. Thank you. Yeah,

53:11

so you won that one. I'm also

53:14

doing a good job. You are doing a good

53:16

job, thank you. I think that's, and

53:18

you know what? Everybody out there listening, you

53:20

are doing a good job. That's all we want.

53:23

And we don't care how you're feeling really.

53:26

No, we do, but we don't wanna put

53:28

pressure on you to answer it. You'll let us know.

53:31

Yeah, well, I mean, whatever

53:34

way you're feeling is normal, this is a very strange

53:36

situation for sure. And

53:39

you know, it's been helpful for me to

53:42

have folks be like all these, all

53:44

the different directions your mind is running in, it's all

53:47

normal and it's all common

53:49

and. Yeah, and

53:51

everybody's gonna bring their own stuff to it, because

53:54

so many people who are listening

53:55

to this are cancer survivors or love a cancer

53:58

survivor or lost somebody. to cancer.

54:00

And so everybody's going

54:02

to bring their own particular

54:05

memories or experiences to

54:07

this and co-mingle that with

54:10

this experience that we're having. So

54:13

we also like just, I think it's

54:17

so individual. And so all

54:19

we can really do is make space for that.

54:22

The last thing I want, there is no news from Mars

54:24

and AFC Wimbledon this week. Not as far as

54:26

we know. Literally. Not

54:31

just that we don't want to talk about it. I don't think anything

54:33

happened. But I do

54:35

want to say that

54:37

in advance of feeling it,

54:39

because we haven't felt it yet, because as we're

54:42

recording this, not that many people know. We're

54:44

very grateful for your

54:48

support, your generosity,

54:50

your understanding. And

54:53

I don't know if I'll make an Esther Day

54:55

video this year on August 18th,

55:00

but Hank, I love you so

55:02

much. I admire you so much.

55:05

This has been a hard, hard thing for

55:07

you to go through already, but

55:10

I admire the way that you're

55:12

going through it with integrity,

55:14

with curiosity,

55:16

seeking to

55:18

learn and opening

55:21

yourself up to the hard

55:24

feelings as well. So

55:26

yeah, I

55:28

just like you a lot. Thanks.

55:33

I like you too, John. I

55:36

wasn't thinking about you. I was thinking about me. I'd

55:38

be selfish in that moment. No,

55:41

I appreciate those kind words though, Hank. Thank you. Oh

55:47

man. Yeah, so thanks for coming to our lymphoma

55:49

spectacular. Yep. Thanks

55:52

for making a podcast with me, John. Thanks.

55:55

Thanks for, to everybody who sent in their question. Sorry

55:58

we didn't answer any. I was doing a.

55:59

Okay, until you said, thanks for making a podcast

56:02

with me. And then I

56:04

got real emotional.

56:06

That's weird. I know. All

56:08

the things. I know, it's like when I didn't cry

56:10

at my high school graduation until I saw

56:13

this kid, I didn't know. And

56:15

I was like, I'm never gonna see that kid again.

56:17

And by the way, I haven't. And there's

56:20

just something, yeah, there's something, you know, little moments

56:22

where you just realize like how much you have to be

56:24

grateful for.

56:25

Like I'm just so, I'm so glad that we've been able to

56:27

make so many podcasts together. And

56:30

I look forward to making many more.

56:33

I'm okay actually with extending the hiatus

56:35

until

56:37

say like January of 2027.

56:40

Wow.

56:42

Wow. Yeah. Just

56:45

debuting Dear John and Hank, our

56:48

new hip podcast. I also like, it's funny that

56:50

you, I have to say this. It's funny

56:53

that you, when I proposed the idea

56:55

of a newsletter that I might use if

56:57

I felt like it, which is how I phrased

56:59

it. Yeah. That you were like, that

57:01

is, you cannot do that. But when

57:04

I said to you, maybe this will give

57:06

us some time to work on that book project

57:08

that we would like to maybe do together, you

57:10

were like, yeah.

57:11

You

57:14

were very excited about that. Yeah, okay,

57:16

all right.

57:17

Do you not see

57:19

the, I thought we were in the conclusion phase

57:21

of the podcast, but I guess not. Everybody

57:24

stopped listening when they

57:26

thought we were wrapping up, but it turns out that we

57:28

had a whole other bit to get to.

57:31

Do you not, and this is a genuine

57:33

question. Like I'm not asking

57:36

this rhetorically.

57:37

It may sound like I'm asking it rhetorically, but

57:39

that's only because I'm frustrated. Do

57:42

you not see the difference

57:44

between starting a new thing

57:46

that is open-ended, has no

57:49

shape and may last forever

57:52

and writing a book? Yeah,

57:54

I guess I do. Okay,

57:57

that's great. I'm super encouraged that

57:59

you.

57:59

see the difference between those two kinds

58:02

of projects. I probably should see

58:06

that different shape more often. I

58:08

love a thing that ends. Yeah. Hank

58:11

loves an open-ended commitment. And God,

58:13

thank God, because otherwise we might not have made

58:15

an open-ended commitment to Partners in Health, we might

58:18

not have made an open-ended commitment to Vlogbrothers

58:20

and Dear Hank and John and lots of other stuff, but let's

58:23

all hail some

58:26

things ending, you know? Like

58:29

this book

58:29

that we're hopefully gonna write together with

58:32

all your, with

58:34

all of, yeah. All the energy I'm gonna

58:36

have over the next few months. But the hope

58:39

is that that's not an obligation. Exactly.

58:41

It's just like whenever you feel like it, you can write

58:43

me, you still haven't written me anything.

58:46

So like, and that's fine. Yeah, I was just looking on

58:48

it. No rush, man. And

58:50

if it never happens, that's good too. Yeah.

58:53

Zero deadlines, that's the difference. It's like

58:55

no deadlines, no open-endedness. If it happens,

58:58

it'll happen in an end. And if it doesn't

58:59

happen, nobody ever has to know about it. Except

59:02

for all these people who do now know that

59:04

there is something. Except for the 12 people

59:07

who listened after the end. Who stuck

59:09

through. This

59:12

podcast was edited by Callie Dishman, produced

59:14

by Rosianna Hall-Frohas. Our communications coordinator

59:17

is Brooke Shotwell. Our editorial assistant

59:19

is Deboki Chakravarti. The music you're hearing now

59:21

and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunnarolla. And

59:23

as they say in our hometown, don't

59:25

forget to be awesome.

59:26

This episode of Dear Hanga John is brought to you

59:29

by Blue Land.

59:32

I

59:35

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