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rates not available in all states

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or situations. Prices vary based on

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how you buy. Ryan

0:48

Reinhardt is a food writer. And when he

0:51

was growing up in southern Indiana, he remembers

0:53

that there was a way people talked about

0:55

one particular cuisine, Mexican food.

0:57

The perception I always had what people told

0:59

me because they were Midwestern people was, oh,

1:01

well, you got to be careful with Mexican

1:04

food because so much of it

1:06

is so spicy. And those peppers, you

1:08

got to watch out for because they'll light you

1:10

up every time. One winter, Brian's

1:12

family went on vacation to San Antonio

1:14

and Brian finally got to eat the

1:16

real thing. It was it was a revelation.

1:19

It was December 27th and we were sitting

1:22

out on the river walk. It was 70

1:24

degrees outside and we were calling

1:26

home saying, yeah, we're having enchiladas and we're

1:28

sitting outside and there are all these ducks

1:30

floating across the water and we're enjoying everything.

1:32

And all the people at home were saying,

1:35

well, there's two feet of snow outside and

1:37

we're all miserable. So we all started

1:39

lobbying. My dad saying, can you get a job down

1:41

here? Brian's family, lured

1:44

in part by the taste of good

1:46

Mexican food, moved to Texas when he

1:48

was in high school. I moved

1:50

down the week I turned 16. So

1:52

then visiting with friends and going

1:54

out and everything turned into Mexican

1:57

food or barbecue. food

2:00

grew as he got older, and eventually he

2:02

began writing about it professionally. For the past

2:04

two years, he's been a food critic at

2:06

Dallas' D Magazine. He eats

2:08

out in restaurants 200 times a

2:11

year, but he and his girlfriend also

2:13

cook at home, often Mexican food, often

2:15

with hot peppers, some of which they

2:17

grow in their own backyard. We've

2:19

got some kind of bells. This year we

2:21

were growing shishito peppers for the first time. We

2:24

love fish peppers. They're very tiny

2:27

and they have racing stripes. They're

2:29

beautiful. One kind of hot pepper Brian

2:31

does and grows, though, is the jalapeno, a

2:33

chili originally cultivated in Veracruz, Mexico.

2:36

He shops for those at the supermarket, and

2:39

a little while ago he started to notice

2:41

something. I kept buying

2:43

jalapenos at the grocery store, and then more

2:46

and more frequently it just tasted like

2:48

a bell pepper. There was almost nothing

2:50

to it. It was a very simple,

2:52

straightforward pepper flavor. In

2:54

jalapeno after jalapeno, it seemed to

2:57

Brian like the spice was gone.

3:00

And at first he thought it was just him. Maybe

3:03

I've become conditioned because now I eat

3:05

serrano peppers and now I cook with

3:07

habanero peppers sometimes, and maybe I've

3:09

just developed a greater heat tolerance. And

3:12

then finally it started to get to the

3:14

point where I felt like I

3:16

must be going crazy. And

3:18

then I started asking people, have

3:21

you had this experience with jalapenos also? I'd

3:24

be cooking and I'd hold one up and I'd say,

3:26

what's wrong with these things? Have you noticed this? And

3:28

more and more people started saying, yeah, they're basically, there's

3:31

nothing to them. And then

3:33

I said, you know what we can do?

3:35

And I pulled up my phone, I texted, I think, like

3:37

four or five different chefs all at once. The

3:40

answers came back quickly. The first one was,

3:43

yes, definitely. They're less hot than they used to

3:45

be. The second one was, I tell

3:48

my cooks, my hands must be too sweet

3:50

because I can't make the salsa hot enough

3:52

anymore. It wasn't just

3:54

the tastes that seemed different. Some people

3:56

noticed that jalapenos looked different too.

4:00

I mean, you can just look at

4:02

old menus and cartoon-type imagery where jalapenos

4:04

used to have a big

4:06

bend, like almost a 90-degree twist in

4:09

the middle. But now most of the

4:11

jalapenos at the store are straight. Like,

4:14

what did you think was going on? I

4:16

think my working theory was

4:18

jalapeno growing operations

4:21

were prioritizing growing

4:23

them properly, keeping them happy compared

4:25

to us at home where maybe

4:27

we'd go out of town for a weekend and

4:30

we forget about them and then we come back

4:32

and they've been completely neglected and they become spicier

4:34

because of that. Right, that

4:36

you took what you knew to that like,

4:38

peppers are spicier under stress and where you're

4:40

like, these are the most well-taken care of

4:42

peppers, so they're not that spicy. We need

4:45

a farm to just treat their peppers like

4:47

absolute garbage. Just leave them for months

4:49

and months and come back to them and

4:51

say, oh my gosh, I forgot we had these, and

4:53

then sell them. Brian

4:57

knew that if he was going to figure

4:59

out the truth, he needed to run his

5:01

theory by an expert. He immediately thought of

5:03

New Mexico State University, which is a

5:06

whole institute dedicated to chili peppers. He

5:09

picked out one of their faculty members, dialed her

5:11

up, and told her everything you've just heard. And

5:14

she started off very kindly

5:16

and she said, I've heard these complaints

5:18

before. You're not the first.

5:21

And I felt really good for a moment. And

5:24

then she said, but it

5:27

goes a lot deeper and there's a lot better

5:29

explanation available for you. And

5:32

then she said, the peppers are

5:34

designed that way. And

5:38

I said, excuse me? And

5:41

she said, well, it's completely on purpose. And

5:45

that's when the story of the

5:47

great chili pepper conspiracy really started to unfold.

5:52

And that's when

5:54

the story of the great chili

5:56

pepper conspiracy

5:59

started to unfold. This is Dakota

6:01

Ring. I'm Willa Paskin. The shiny,

6:03

dark green jalapeno is the workhorse

6:06

of hot peppers. They're in hot

6:08

sauces and shallotas and salsas. They're

6:11

canned, pickled, fresh and smoked

6:13

into chipotles. And they outsell all

6:15

other hot peppers in the United

6:18

States. But these everyday

6:20

chilies are a scientific and sociological

6:22

marvel. A complicated testament to the

6:24

American love affair with Mexican food

6:27

sitting right there on the grocery

6:29

store shelf. In today's episode,

6:31

we're going to tell the decades-long

6:34

saga of the jalapeno and its

6:36

fluctuating spice levels. It's a story

6:38

about how this one pepper helped

6:41

American palates progress from mild to

6:43

medium to hot and

6:45

then couldn't keep up. So

6:47

today on Dakota Ring, who

6:49

took the heat out of the jalapeno? Apple

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8:53

So to test out his theory, Ryan

8:55

Reinhardt had called an expert at New

8:57

Mexico State University. Someone named Stephanie

8:59

Walker because she had been the

9:02

chair of the Chili Pepper Conference.

9:04

Yes, I've been getting a lot of calls

9:06

about jalapenos lately. We called

9:08

Dr. Stephanie Walker too. She's a professor

9:10

and extension vegetable specialist, and she got

9:12

back to us during a break from

9:15

planting. This is the time of year

9:17

where we're putting our various chili experiments

9:19

in the field. Turns out,

9:21

like Brian, Stephanie wasn't born with

9:23

spice in her life. I didn't

9:25

know anything about chili peppers or

9:27

heat. When we moved to

9:29

Las Cruces, New Mexico, when I was

9:32

starting middle school, I started eating chili.

9:34

I developed a love

9:36

for it. And then I actually, after I

9:38

got my bachelor's degree, I went to work

9:41

in a chili pepper processing facility. And that's

9:43

where I really fell in love with chili

9:45

peppers. So have

9:47

jalapenos gotten less spicy? So

9:51

in my opinion, yes. And

9:55

to really understand why I asked Stephanie

9:57

to start at the beginning. What

9:59

is this? that makes chili spicy.

10:01

Oh, capsaicin. Capsaicin and very

10:04

closely related chemicals are only

10:06

made in members of the

10:08

capsicum genus. So chili peppers

10:11

are very unique in having that type

10:13

of pungency that you experience when you

10:15

eat chili peppers. I actually

10:17

am really interested in like

10:19

how jalapenos, but maybe more largely

10:21

like chili peppers, grow. Like,

10:24

and also how they're bred. Like, how

10:26

do we have all these different kinds of chili peppers

10:28

to begin with? Are they just naturally occurring

10:31

or some of them? Well, actually, they've

10:33

been created by humans. So the original

10:35

chili pepper, it's called the mother of

10:37

all chili peppers, is the chiltapine type.

10:40

So they're very small, usually round or

10:42

slightly elongated peppers that grow in bushes.

10:45

And even though the heat kind

10:47

of evolved in chili peppers to

10:49

dissuade mammals from eating them, human

10:51

mammals discovered they love this heat

10:53

sensation. So humans then started the

10:56

selecting process. So this goes back

10:58

thousands of years. And just through

11:01

humans actively selecting, we have the

11:03

vast array of chili pepper varieties

11:05

that we see today. And

11:07

that vast array of different

11:10

human selected breeds of peppers

11:12

is what Stephanie emphasized to

11:15

Brian. The point she made

11:17

to me was the jalapeno is a family.

11:19

There are so many different varieties of jalapeno.

11:21

It is not just a pepper. And

11:24

humans are still actively selecting when

11:26

it comes to chili pepper varieties.

11:29

In fact, it's key to what's happened to

11:31

the jalapeno. In the

11:34

early 1980s, demand for Mexican food

11:36

was growing all over America. Sales at

11:38

Mexican restaurants had doubled in just a

11:40

few years. But consumer tastes

11:42

varied widely. Even though there's a lot

11:45

of folks out there who love very,

11:47

very hot jalapenos, there's a lot who

11:49

don't like hot foods. Companies

11:51

wanted to be able to sell products

11:54

at every level of spice. But

11:56

There was this big problem. One Stephanie

11:58

is very familiar. Well, because he was

12:01

working at a chili pepper process or back

12:03

then. A big issue was predicting

12:05

heat level for chili peppers. predicting

12:07

punches the is hard so the

12:10

plenty sea level of a different

12:12

silly pepper variety is based on

12:14

genetics but also the environment. When

12:16

we did vast of salsa we

12:18

would have mild, medium or high.

12:21

It's and if you happen to

12:23

get like a load of hell

12:25

opinion that with extra hot We

12:27

might miss label a whole days

12:30

run of medium or mild salsa.

12:32

So we actually had. A program

12:34

where I feel depart would go out

12:36

free samples seals before they were harvest as

12:38

we could. A good idea how hot of

12:41

these peppers? How do we need to adjust

12:43

the formulation? Will we make mild, medium or

12:45

hot salsa us and we discovered it didn't

12:47

work in the chili peppers was just too

12:50

unpredictable haas. But. There is

12:52

a more predictable substance. And

12:54

extract called only or as and capsaicin

12:56

which is pure capsaicin structure from hot

12:59

chili peppers basically and then it's is

13:01

like a liquid that you can very

13:03

very dangerous. Like was suspicious as a

13:06

desert as a greedy of buckets has

13:08

a soul and crossbones. Ana yes I

13:10

hear pure heat so it's the yeah

13:13

you that what a mess with it

13:15

Only or As and capsaicin the active

13:17

ingredient in pepper spray. It makes it

13:20

possible to take something mild and make

13:22

it. A scene where you. Can

13:24

never take sending spicy and make

13:26

it a mild. It's just like

13:28

salt. You can add more but

13:30

you can't take any away. The

13:32

on mild jalapeno from the manufacturers

13:34

perspective, is actually a lot more

13:36

versatile than a spicy. And

13:39

feel as Brian Reinhardt learned, companies

13:41

that growing a mild pepper could

13:44

solve the problem. Okay, well.

13:47

If. We can find a way to make sure

13:49

they're all miles. Then. We

13:51

can choose the spice level so

13:54

as his prom became more widely

13:56

known in the industry, agriculture department

13:58

some and breeders. Working

14:00

on: how can we standardize the jalapeno

14:02

pepper and get something that hits all

14:05

the attributes and we want. And.

14:07

One of the people they called it was

14:09

a chilly expert named Dr. They need know

14:11

the Allen who goes by bed. Among. Other

14:13

names Erotic com it does the paper.

14:15

You know our demand for the job.

14:19

Then Yates. He was raised on a

14:21

vegetable farm in South Texas and he

14:24

is degrees and plant breeding, genetics and

14:26

pathology. He also worked at Texas A

14:28

and M for thirty years and that's

14:30

where he was when the salsa industry.

14:32

Reached out they came to me

14:34

face hurts all a bottle of

14:36

Victoria dollar the big three and

14:38

a says if we have mile

14:40

holiday it would consider a lot

14:42

more shots that because it with

14:45

less eight serve as their lawyers

14:47

have it wouldn't work in a

14:49

society to do. In.

14:51

The seventies then had been trying

14:53

to breed of virus resistant bell

14:55

pepper by crossing it with different

14:58

peppers including Jalapeno Us. After a

15:00

lot of cross breeding he realized

15:02

he the inadvertently. Created a low

15:04

heat jalapeno. It was about ten years

15:06

to get back to the Alibi you're

15:09

flavor stutter list of things to do

15:11

that goes out. Every paper on there

15:13

were serious is showing flavor profile and

15:15

they said they wanted it because customers

15:18

said that they didn't want space as

15:20

writes a book. Those I did get

15:22

their mouths burned and all a ghost

15:24

up. And show us your letters.

15:26

Years is a mile. Allah feel. As.

15:29

though a couple years later with it. That.

15:33

Low Heat Pepper was released in

15:35

the early nineteen eighties as the

15:37

Tam Jalapeno Him since her Texas

15:39

and Am and it seemed to

15:42

do exactly with the processing plants

15:44

wanted. If was control of

15:46

li. Mildly. Hot it

15:48

was resistant superbugs, it's didn't

15:51

develop kind of gnarly black

15:53

spots, and it wasn't so

15:55

curved is a glorious little

15:57

invention. It was a sushi.

16:00

Help to industry because somebody who get

16:02

jalapeno you could predict what the formulation

16:04

was going to be. Our able

16:06

to give you don't a mild

16:09

radio talk show zoc swing salsa

16:11

industries really started bombing Versailles which

16:13

helps that older or of the

16:16

process and are you sure but

16:18

the fresh market Also by nineteen

16:20

nineties the United States out soul

16:22

cats are one hundred miles thousand.

16:25

Things kicked up even more and

16:27

the early two thousand when the

16:30

tam to came out and even

16:32

milder more predictable pepper developed by

16:34

then successor a Texas an app

16:36

sixty percent of how of hang

16:38

your got a processing plants so

16:40

that's what farmers prioritize and so

16:43

mild Jalapeno became the dominant club.

16:45

So. Useful for mass produce. salsa

16:47

the trickled into the produce aisle

16:49

to. And this seems to

16:51

be happening more and more according. Both

16:53

the Brian's taste buds and even to those

16:56

of then the alone the man who created

16:58

the mild jalapeno in the first place. I

17:00

don't like the store because they're

17:02

highbridge and asia alarmed at Heathrow,

17:04

so you don't like the ones

17:07

that have. No.

17:09

Record of flavors. I

17:12

ask Brian how he felt when Stephanie

17:14

explained that has experience was the result

17:17

of a deliberate decades long. Effort

17:19

to grow milder jalapeno.

17:21

As. I definitely felt like

17:23

I was being. Soon. The

17:25

man behind the curtains. I felt

17:27

like I was talking to somebody

17:30

who was telling me that they

17:32

knew what really happened to Jfk.

17:34

Are women are nobody's been fighting

17:36

this information. Nobody's been conspiring with

17:39

this information. But somehow we just

17:41

missed it. And

17:43

in part of the reason we missed it

17:46

is because it's not the first time something

17:48

like this. Live

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19:50

an episode. What's

20:01

happened to the jalapeno has happened

20:03

before. In fact, it's happened

20:05

over and over again. First

20:08

and foremost, Americans have been obsessed with

20:10

Mexican food from the moment they encountered

20:12

it. Gustavo Arellano is a

20:15

columnist for the LA Times and

20:17

the author of Taco USA, How

20:19

Mexican Food Conquered America. Mexican

20:21

food first starts getting into

20:23

the American consciousness, really

20:26

in the 1880s, that explodes

20:28

in the 1890s. And you had two

20:30

dishes in particular that made it happen.

20:33

One of them were tamales. Tamales are, of course,

20:35

the quintessential Mexican food.

20:37

On the other hand, you have chile

20:39

con carne. In the

20:41

plazas of San Antonio, women known

20:44

as chili queens opened all-night open-air

20:46

restaurants serving up bowlfuls as guitars

20:48

played. And tamale street vendors hawked

20:50

their wares all over cities like

20:53

San Francisco. And Americans were

20:55

just so enticed by the scene of

20:57

it, more importantly, they were

20:59

enticed by the food. And the American

21:01

media got curious about them. And so

21:04

you started seeing these dispatches in publications

21:06

like The Atlantic, like Harper's Weekly. How

21:08

are they describing them? Like, what are

21:11

they saying about them? They always, they

21:13

always end up obsessing on the spice.

21:16

You have these stereotypes like that. It tastes

21:19

like the fires of hell, but they're not

21:21

disparaging it. They're not disparaging it. They are

21:23

praising it, but warning people in advance, hey,

21:25

this is going to be hot. The

21:29

dishes became even more well known after the 1893 Chicago

21:31

World Fair. And

21:34

that's arguably where Mexican food had

21:36

its nationwide debut. The city of

21:38

Chicago is awash with tamale vendors.

21:40

Chicago's also the meat packing capital

21:43

of the United States. It's also

21:45

the canning capital. So as this

21:47

is happening, these big

21:49

companies, they get the brilliant idea

21:52

of packing tamales in a can and

21:55

packing chile con carne in a can. They

21:59

then spread around. on the rest of the United

22:01

States. And Americans gobble it up. This

22:03

is a man made famous by

22:06

his half-a-mallies. So

22:10

those were the two first famous dishes

22:12

that Americans got obsessed over. And then

22:14

every decade, everything that I just told

22:17

you repeats. Every decade,

22:19

you have Americans, quote unquote,

22:22

discovering something at a

22:24

restaurant and travel somewhere. They

22:26

become obsessed with it. Entrepreneurs

22:28

then spread it around the rest of

22:31

the United States. Americans love it, eat

22:33

it to the point where it becomes

22:36

assimilated into the American diet.

22:38

And then Americans say, okay, what's

22:41

next? I want something more, quote

22:43

unquote, authentic. It happens almost every

22:46

decade. It happens in

22:48

the 1900s with chili powder. In the

22:50

1920s with rice and beans. Then entrepreneurs

22:52

sell the country on margaritas and fajitas

22:55

and especially on tacos. I

22:57

just make your food fresh. And

22:59

taco, and taco, and taco. And

23:01

you give your people, you

23:03

give your people, and on word and

23:05

on word. It has been a slow

23:08

but steady march of Mexican food

23:10

conquering American palates and stomachs. When

23:12

the food or the dish or

23:15

the ingredient becomes so omnipresent,

23:17

does there start to be this conversation about

23:19

it's not as good or? Oh yeah, I

23:21

mean, it's partly true though. And a lot

23:23

of this does have to do with the

23:25

mass production of the cuisine. Look,

23:28

when you're going to mass produce anything,

23:30

you have to sacrifice certain attributes. You

23:32

have to commodify everything.

23:34

So people who grow

23:36

ingredients for Mexican food

23:38

in the United States

23:41

have always modified their

23:44

flavor so they

23:46

could become more popular. You're talking

23:48

about jalapeños right now, but in

23:50

Mexico, remember tequila can only come

23:52

from five states in Mexico. It's

23:54

a protected designation. Well, the 1940s,

23:57

these tequila producers realized, hey, Americans are

23:59

starting to... to come to Mexico in record

24:01

numbers. They're liking our tequila, but they find

24:03

it too harsh. Let's change

24:05

the recipe. So they changed the

24:07

recipe to make it more palatable

24:10

to Americans, and we all

24:12

know what happens with tequila becomes a huge,

24:14

huge sensation to the point now, of course,

24:16

where you're getting these same tequila companies, now

24:19

you have tequila companies saying, we need to

24:21

make tequila for Mexicans. And of course, the

24:23

Americans don't want the Americanized tequila anymore, they

24:25

want the Mexicanized tequila. Well, I

24:27

mean, it sounds like there's this kind

24:29

of paradox, like there's this growing taste

24:32

for spiciness or for tequila for something,

24:34

and then it starts to take off,

24:36

and then this businesses are like, oh,

24:38

we actually need to get even bigger,

24:40

so we have to standardize even more.

24:43

And then it does get bigger, and it

24:45

is really popular, but it opens up space

24:47

for certain consumers to be like, no,

24:49

no, we want the first thing. You mentioned

24:51

paradox, that's the best way of putting it.

24:53

The American consumer at first, they want something

24:56

that's watered down, they accept

24:58

it, you have

25:00

an entire industry being

25:02

created to match what

25:04

they wanted originally, but

25:07

then the American gets inured

25:09

to that modified flavor

25:11

profile, and then that's when they want

25:13

more, but by then, it's too late.

25:16

And that's the story of jalapenos too.

25:19

In the latter part of the 20th century, Americans

25:22

became interested in salsas and the

25:24

peppers that go into them. The

25:27

jalapeno immediately resonated

25:29

with American palates. The

25:32

name itself is just so intriguing. Jalapeno?

25:37

Jalapeno? You

25:40

know, the American just gets so intrigued by

25:42

foreign words and jalapeno, I mean, God, you

25:44

wanna talk about a Mexican word, try

25:47

jalapeno. The J is pronounced like

25:49

a ha. Then. You

25:51

have the little tilde, of course, on top,

25:53

the little squiggly thing in the N, which

25:55

turns into an enge, and then if you

25:57

really wanna go deep track, jalapeno. Refers.

26:00

To the town of a lot far

26:03

in the state of Veracruz and hello

26:05

by just to confuse americans more is

26:07

with an ex is just the name

26:09

itself is so intriguing. And. This

26:11

is all by the way before he actually taste it.

26:14

And. Then you tasted. I mean, yet. To put

26:16

yourself of the mindset of Americans in the

26:18

sixties and seventies when Mexican food is still

26:20

not. Where it is today, it's of course there

26:22

to get entry. And they

26:24

want it is in their cell

26:26

says and hot sauce it as

26:28

long as it wasn't too hot.

26:30

To readers develop mild tappers for

26:33

processors and suddenly they were everywhere.

26:35

See such and such a self

26:37

of was only fresh have a

26:39

thing as a the average are

26:41

some ties born in San Antonio

26:43

stuff by easy to see. What

26:48

does not Mexicans a more and more of

26:50

this stuff there palace changed in turn. There

26:52

was a point where Americans or

26:55

not Mexicans could not stand here

26:57

at all. But yes, added that

26:59

is have gone on. Americans have

27:01

done the tolerance for salsas, spies

27:03

and Americans are starting to escalate.

27:05

Their. Seats to the point Now of

27:08

course we have the hot one. The

27:10

have kids just loving all an adult

27:12

super that american more that you'll see

27:14

Mexicans doing These fucking contests were like

27:16

oh under existing Carolina Reapers That was

27:18

what you just ate. the hottest, most

27:21

disgusting hot sauce and. To

27:23

the American see, it's kind of funny and kind of

27:25

pathetic. says. Get

27:29

this is the actor Jennifer

27:31

Lawrence on the popular youtube

27:33

self Hot One Or guess

27:35

he increasingly. Spicy Hot. I

27:40

know. That

27:44

is just masochism. I. Don't want that still.

27:46

have you noticed that jalapeno than particular have

27:49

that mile the now because. For

27:51

me, the holiday meal was never spicy

27:53

to begin with. The hottest. Hello thing you'll

27:55

see. Are. Not that hard, but

27:57

so Jalapeno historically. Listen, my family.

28:00

You would use them for the flavor as

28:02

a good jalapeno has a good bird in

28:04

a flavor to it varies fresh, very invigorating

28:06

flavor the way other see less don't have

28:08

but there's nothing wrong with putting a little

28:10

bit of spice to it. I all I

28:12

do not take a little bottle of hot

28:14

sauce with to diners but I do take

28:17

a big you said on or I just

28:19

wish I just eat out of French Bistro.

28:21

the other day of my what was it

28:23

I had of broke. Madame.

28:25

Yesterday branch I love french foods that are going to

28:27

have any he i need a little bit he say

28:29

without myself i know my friend who's with me he

28:32

didn't blink as he knows why amp with the waitress

28:34

comes into side of that we give you one on

28:36

like. Know and she was impressed like aka

28:38

do like us or a nice like that when you

28:40

do it. That are you tall with with

28:42

word see let us have other hell no

28:44

Godzilla them or the that abiding silly. So

28:46

you get it. You. Eat it And.

28:49

I'm you either like a terrorist that's oh my god

28:51

setting it up into small little pieces. That's by I

28:53

mean I opted out of of you're going to bring

28:55

it, see less you eat it or see them or

28:58

to the that like. Fighting. And

29:00

it was freaking good. And as as if the owners

29:02

of the restaurant there a bemused and I tell them

29:04

look your foods absolutely amazing They'll get me wrong it

29:06

was super super good. Bye. So me

29:08

some spicy Know a Mexican? For.

29:11

The Salvo. What's happened to Mexican food

29:14

over and over again? As on the

29:16

whole, a good saying because even imperfect,

29:18

The Mexican. Food can bring people

29:20

together. I could tell

29:22

you how low Mexicans have always

29:24

been and how low the next

29:26

in some was. But now you

29:29

have kids growing up, your kids

29:31

growing up with good hot sauces

29:33

are you know people in Southern

29:35

California in the American Southwest? In

29:37

Colorado like kids growing up with

29:39

Mexican food as part of beer

29:41

or mother's milk so to speak?

29:44

And growing up with Mexican, it

29:46

does make relationships better between Mexicans

29:48

and Americans. So I do remain

29:50

optimistic that Americans. Will all

29:53

eventually become Mexican. He

29:59

be good. Supermarket basically anywhere in America.

30:01

At this point there is an

30:04

aisle. Were there will be salsa. Lots

30:06

and lots and lots of salsa.

30:09

A bounty of options and many

30:11

of these options are only possible

30:14

because of the existence of a

30:16

mild jalapeno. For the rob is

30:18

that this same jalapeno is in

30:21

another part of the grocery. Store

30:23

the produce aisle keeping us from

30:25

having options in our cooking. Brian

30:28

Reinhart Again, I think the issue

30:30

is not so much that with

30:32

him, Pepper exists. I. Think of

30:34

birth failing. The. Failing came

30:36

at the marketplace when they took

30:39

over and we didn't really understand

30:41

what was happening. We didn't understand

30:43

that of certain amount of choice

30:45

was going away or that. Even

30:48

that there's another kind of jalapeno available

30:50

at this point that was certainly not

30:52

their intention. They didn't mean to dominate

30:54

the market in that way. Yeah, they

30:56

didn't intend for us all to forget

30:59

that. Another kind of persisted. For. Me.

31:01

I mean I'm like I can always to school

31:03

at her own feel, has and and harvest tell

31:05

at ten years. If I were to get the

31:07

heat level I was. Doctor. Seventy Walker,

31:09

the pepper expert again that. Tas

31:11

yes your sister the mercy of grocery store

31:13

as a front farmers markets as going to

31:16

be harder to get exactly what you may

31:18

words if you go to a grocery. Store

31:20

and you like are in the aisle. Can

31:22

you just eyeball them and be like I

31:24

know and know how are you know how

31:26

for the rest of us is are they

31:29

are you. Stephanie hopes

31:31

run the cusp of an heirloom

31:33

pepper movement. Like what's happened with tomatoes

31:35

The girls insurgencies to sell generic

31:37

read: softballs. The now you can get

31:40

colorful, wrinkly tasty heirloom tomatoes in

31:42

every shape and size and markets and

31:44

restaurant Zeman plant them in. Your. Own

31:46

garden. if you want a

31:48

good hot jalapeno by some of these

31:50

heirloom varieties it'll plants are owed if

31:53

you are a south and what a

31:55

predictable he the predictable flavored your peppers

31:57

for good to say so to say

32:00

I want mild peppers, I want hot peppers.

32:02

You know, get to know these varieties because

32:04

these are as with wine grapes, as with

32:06

heirloom apples. You know, they're

32:09

very unique and we need to celebrate

32:11

this amazing germplasm and hope

32:13

that we keep it available. In

32:15

the meantime, you can just do what

32:17

Dr. Ben Villalon, AKA Dr. Pepper, the

32:19

one who created the first mild jalapeno

32:21

does and make a different choice at

32:23

the market. And now I go

32:25

for the serranos at the supermarket with a

32:27

new heart. And

32:31

if the day ever comes when your serrano

32:33

peppers start to taste different, well,

32:36

maybe it's not just you. This

32:46

is Decoder Ring, I'm Willa Paskin. If

32:48

you have any cultural mystery, if you

32:50

want us to decode, please email us

32:52

at decoderring at flake.com. This

32:55

episode was produced by Evan Chung. We

32:57

produced Decoder Ring with Katie Shepherd and

32:59

Max Friedman. Derek John is executive producer.

33:02

Merrick Jacob is senior technical director. I

33:04

also really encourage you to go read

33:07

Brian Reinhardt's piece for D Magazine all

33:09

about his jalapeno hunt, which we'll link

33:11

to on our show page. If

33:13

you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our

33:15

Feed an Apple podcast or wherever you get

33:17

your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends.

33:20

If you're a fan of the show,

33:22

I'd also love for you to sign

33:24

up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get

33:27

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support is crucial to our work, so

33:35

please go to slate.com/Decoder Plus to join

33:37

Slate Plus today. We'll

33:39

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