0:00

A note to our listeners, this

0:02

episode contains discussion of suicide and

0:04

violence against children. You

0:07

have to be careful not to judge a

0:10

person too much on traumatic

0:12

events in their past, including

0:14

if the events took place before that person

0:16

was even born. Yes,

0:18

those events may be phenomenally huge,

0:21

but a person is made up

0:24

of all sorts of experiences. Happy, sad,

0:26

significant. You live long enough, yeah, there's

0:28

going to be some door dings and

0:31

rust patches on the car that is

0:33

your life. You can't define a person

0:35

by one thing. Granted, understood.

0:39

Of course, you shouldn't dismiss something

0:41

huge and traumatic that happened in

0:44

a person's life either, or

0:46

before a person's life. Generational

0:49

trauma, or intergenerational trauma,

0:53

that's a real thing.

0:55

What happened to your parents helped shape who they

0:58

became, and that

1:00

parent, molded in part by that

1:02

trauma, well, they made you and

1:05

all the genetic and environmental

1:07

factors that turn you into

1:09

who you are. And again, it

1:11

might not define a person, but

1:14

it shouldn't be ignored either. In

1:17

summary, the big trauma, it isn't everything,

1:19

it isn't everything, but it is

1:21

something. And therefore, knowing

1:23

all this, let us proceed. It's

1:26

Depression Mode. I'm John Moe. I'm glad you're

1:28

here. Liz

1:38

Mealy is a very funny New York

1:40

comedian who has appeared on Comedy Central

1:42

and NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

1:44

She headlines at comedy clubs around the

1:46

country and has released several specials which

1:49

you can watch on YouTube. Her latest

1:51

is called Murder Sheets. I have

1:54

one rule in my life. I have exactly one

1:56

rule I tried to live by. I'm not allowed

1:59

to do edibles. Yeah, I've

2:01

had it for 10 years. I break it every year. Um...

2:05

The main reason for that rule is mental illness runs

2:07

in both sides of my family, so when I

2:09

freak out, like, when I freak out on drugs,

2:11

it is generations of paranoia.

2:14

It is a family tree of conspiracy

2:17

theories. It is a double

2:19

helix of crazy. So it isn't like, oh,

2:21

no, the cops are coming. It's like, oh, God, I think

2:24

I started Scientology. Lizz's

2:30

comedy involves a lot of storytelling, and

2:32

it tends to be really personal. She

2:34

really opens up. Liz

2:36

tells a lengthy story in

2:38

the Murder Sheet special that

2:40

involves her cat, her brother,

2:42

taxidermy, lamps, and awkward moments

2:44

involving her freezer. It's pretty

2:46

dark and oddly moving, and

2:48

very funny. At some

2:50

point in this interview, Liz Mealy is going

2:52

to mention some trauma that happened before she

2:55

was even born. It does not

2:57

define who she is, but it shouldn't

2:59

be dismissed either. Liz

3:06

Mealy, welcome to Depression Mode. Hi,

3:09

thanks for having me. How are you

3:11

today? Better?

3:17

That's a loaded word. Yeah, I

3:19

mean, it's truthful. I was actually –

3:22

two things. I went

3:24

through a depressive episode like a month and a

3:26

half ago and had to

3:29

get ready to do a three-week European tour.

3:31

And I was like, I don't want to

3:33

get out of bed, let alone go to

3:36

a new city every day. And it feels

3:38

very weird to complain about a dream, you

3:40

know what I mean, getting to go to

3:42

different countries. But it's A, it's very hard.

3:46

You're in a new – literally, you're on a plane or a

3:48

train every day in a new city doing an hour every night. And

3:51

it would be hard even if I wasn't already burnt out

3:53

and going through a depressive episode. And

3:56

I was already exhausted, so I started to feel

3:58

– a little

4:00

bit better in the middle of it. And

4:02

then now that I'm home, I don't

4:05

know if

4:07

I discovered a tactic, but maybe making

4:09

your life harder while you're depressed

4:12

is. Oh, you know what I

4:14

mean? Like, oh, you almost like a mom tactic. Like, I'll

4:16

give you something to be depressed about. Like, I

4:19

truly just feel better being home. And

4:23

I'm still very jet lagged, but I. I

4:26

wasn't sure how long this was going

4:28

to last. And I

4:30

was like anticipating it being much

4:34

worse. So I'm like weirdly

4:36

in a place of relieved, even though I'm still

4:38

kind of coming out of it and I am

4:41

very tired. Were

4:43

you going to non-English speaking

4:46

places in Europe? For sure.

4:48

I mean, nobody's going to see

4:50

me that doesn't speak English, but,

4:52

um, yeah, I was, I was

4:55

everywhere. I was Turkey, Germany, Netherlands,

4:59

Switzerland. I'm

5:02

trying to think of the non-English ones, but I, you

5:04

know, everything. How is

5:07

the Turkish stand up scene these days? It

5:09

was awesome. It was first of all. Yeah.

5:11

So I did a military tour in Izmir,

5:13

so it's not the same because you're not

5:16

performing for locals, but I just loved Turkey.

5:18

Like, I just, it's cast everywhere. It's beautiful. I

5:21

love the food. People are really

5:23

nice. And then when I had the opportunity

5:25

to do Istanbul, which is like, to me

5:27

marketed as like a cat haven, I

5:30

was like, I have to go and it

5:32

didn't let me down. It was awesome.

5:34

Just, it was so much fun. The

5:36

audiences were super appreciative. Um, I think

5:39

they're slowly building up their scene to

5:41

have more English speaking

5:43

comedy. So, uh, this

5:45

Booker in particular just had, um,

5:47

Daniel Slosh and, um,

5:50

Jimmy Carr, but he flat out said, we

5:52

don't have a lot of women

5:55

coming out here, especially English speaking,

5:57

and like they wanted to kind

5:59

of build. up. And I mean, that

6:01

it was, I have a pretty

6:03

good mix of fans. But this was like, it

6:05

was predominantly women in the audience. And they were super

6:08

excited. And I was like, Oh, this feels nice. Like,

6:10

that's great. Yeah, it was it was awesome. Yeah.

6:13

Well, it's interesting that, that

6:15

traveling around and doing the work,

6:19

you were able to climb out of that

6:21

episode, because for a lot of people, I

6:23

think travel is a trigger, like you're away

6:25

from everything you know, you're away from your

6:28

people, your pets, your home. And,

6:31

and that just all

6:33

the mental work that goes into

6:36

traveling, especially if there are language issues, can

6:38

be really triggering for a lot of people,

6:40

but it pulled you out somehow. I

6:43

think because it's connected to work, and

6:45

I felt like

6:47

one, I didn't want to let my

6:49

fans down. And I take great pride

6:51

in showing up. And at

6:54

the end of the day, I just have to show

6:56

up for an hour. You know what I mean? Like,

6:58

I not to say that rallying for an hour is

7:01

easy. But in the scheme

7:03

of things, if I was a mom, or

7:05

had a nine to five or had, you

7:08

know, was in charge of multiple employees, that's

7:10

your whole day that you have to like

7:12

put on a face and figure it out.

7:15

I just have to figure it I just have

7:17

to get on my plane, check into my hotel

7:20

and figure it out for an hour. And because

7:22

I care, and it's important to me, I can

7:25

fake it until you make it a little bit. And

7:27

then I also like kind of had a like

7:30

a come to Jesus talk, I talked to my boyfriend

7:32

about it, I talked to my friend who was opening for me and

7:34

I was like, I'm not okay.

7:37

But I'm logical

7:40

enough to know that this

7:42

is an opportunity. And I'm going to make

7:45

the best of it. I am in many

7:48

cities I've never been before. I

7:50

am very fortunate to be somebody like

7:52

my up until I brought my mom

7:54

to London with me six years ago, she had

7:56

never left the country before both my parents. Many

8:00

of my siblings have never left the country

8:02

like it's it Just

8:04

to even go and see other cultures let

8:06

alone have people be excited to

8:08

see you and and have your trip pretty

8:11

much paid For is a luxury and so

8:13

I think even at my lowest I can

8:15

be like This is

8:17

a pretty Good life for

8:19

how shitty you feel. I mean

8:21

like yeah What

8:24

does a depressive episode look like for you? You

8:27

know, it's interesting. It depends on what sparked

8:29

it. So I've had ones that Just

8:32

feel like they came out of nowhere and they're

8:34

not triggered by anything This

8:37

one was triggered by work. I actually

8:39

put a video out about a week

8:41

ago kind of about it But

8:43

basically I put my special out on

8:45

YouTube a month ago and then 48

8:48

hours later it got flagged for hate

8:50

speech I was as surprised as

8:52

you are. So I asked for a human

8:54

review and At 51 minutes

8:56

and 30 seconds They said

8:58

I will continue to have limited ads because of what

9:00

I said and I was so confused and

9:03

I call my cat the C word Oh,

9:06

yeah, and wall and they can

9:08

consider that hate speech But like how

9:11

me and everybody else's felt is like one I

9:13

don't know if you it can be hate speech

9:15

if you call your cat that to all cats

9:18

are C words And three

9:20

it's a comedy special and and and most

9:22

of the rules and they don't say anything

9:25

They just changed the rules

9:27

recently to clarify what hate

9:29

speeches Even in the new

9:31

clarification that came out a couple weeks after I

9:33

put my special out It still doesn't list the

9:35

C word. So it's just like so

9:37

I you know, I tried to get my ads back

9:39

I believed it. I did all this stuff because it

9:42

affects me Financially because I

9:44

self-produce everything, you know,

9:46

this is all like an algorithm So

9:49

the algorithm is saying hate speeches into this

9:51

so we're gonna give you limited ads

9:53

and we're gonna stop showing it to

9:55

you Because they're treating me truly like like

9:58

a bad person and they don't want to spread my

10:00

stuff. So it's limiting my reach, it's

10:02

limiting my revenue and I

10:05

have twice as many fans as I did a

10:08

year ago and I'm getting a third of the views

10:10

on something I worked really hard on and I was

10:12

proud of and I was just, it

10:14

just set me down. I do

10:18

love what I do and I am really proud

10:20

of it and this business is up

10:22

and down. It is never consistent and

10:25

the highs are just as deep as

10:27

the lows but I actually do a pretty good

10:29

job at managing them and I feel like all

10:31

my therapy has really helped

10:33

me manage the constant up

10:35

and down but this one just felt like

10:37

a gut punch and I think mentally after

10:40

like being like, is it

10:42

gonna be okay? It's gonna be okay like all

10:44

these little ups and downs, this deep down, it

10:46

just my whole brain was like, nope, I'm sad

10:48

and it just, I

10:51

thought I could feel it coming but I was like, nah,

10:53

I can get through this and then I just started crying

10:56

every day and I was like, oh

10:58

no, I was like, oh no, it's

11:00

happening and I haven't had,

11:04

I don't think I've had a depressive episode in

11:06

two years and it definitely,

11:08

I think it also felt like it

11:12

was more witnessed because the last one was

11:14

during the pandemic where it was just like,

11:16

I'm sad, I'll just keep that to myself

11:18

and I'll figure it out. I told my

11:20

therapist, I told like friends but it didn't

11:22

feel, I didn't have to do anything. I

11:24

literally, it was February of like 2021

11:28

I think or maybe 2022, no,

11:31

February 2022 and it's just like the

11:33

Delta variant came out, nobody's doing anything

11:36

and I don't know, I

11:38

think the added pressure of like, I

11:40

have things to do and I

11:43

have a boyfriend, I've only been dating for 10

11:45

months and I remember telling him like, hey, I'm

11:47

not okay and I'm scared

11:50

for you to see

11:52

that, especially as somebody that like, he's

11:56

seen me talk about it in like clips and

11:58

stuff but it's a new relationship and you

12:01

don't know how people handle the... The

12:03

tougher side, yeah. Yeah, and I don't even

12:06

wanna say it's the worst side of me because I

12:08

don't think it's the worst side of me. It's

12:10

just the... Just a different side, I guess. Yeah,

12:13

and it's one that

12:15

I've had to do a lot of work about

12:17

accepting. And most

12:21

of my friends I've had for 20, 30 years, and

12:24

they've seen every version of me. So it's weird

12:26

to be kind

12:28

of sideswiped by my feelings and

12:30

have to reintroduce a version

12:33

of myself to somebody. Yeah,

12:35

yeah. Well, I know you have

12:37

a history of panic attacks as

12:39

well. Do those happen around

12:42

the depressive episodes? Are they completely different

12:44

phenomena? For me, I

12:47

feel like they're... I mean, it kind of

12:49

depends. I feel like

12:51

I've had more panic attacks than depressive

12:53

episodes. Weirdly,

12:55

my life is split down the middle of

12:58

before I was on... Actually, when

13:00

I was on birth control because I was

13:02

on birth control since I was 16 to

13:04

afterwards. And I've gotten

13:06

less depressive episodes and

13:09

less depressive... So

13:11

less episodes, less severe,

13:13

and less long episodes since I

13:15

went off birth control. And it

13:17

wasn't until years after I went

13:19

off, because I've been off, I

13:21

think, 11 years, more

13:24

studies came out a couple of years

13:26

after I went off it saying that

13:28

depression is linked to birth control. And

13:31

it's usually like you have a history of it

13:33

or it's somehow you're already predisposed to it and

13:35

it makes it worse. And I would say I

13:38

definitely, with my family, predisposed to

13:40

it. But because I was on

13:42

birth control for so long, I

13:44

was like, when they came, they were scary because I

13:46

could have them for years and they could be much

13:49

more difficult. And I also think I spent much of my

13:51

life being in a low hum depression and

13:54

now being off birth control, not having this

13:56

low hum depression in general, they're

13:59

just... not as bad. Like it sounds

14:02

a little weird to say, but

14:04

my depression is way more

14:07

manageable post birth control and

14:09

maybe because I even experienced the worst version

14:11

of it, but they're just

14:13

less intense and less

14:15

scary. But my panic

14:17

attacks have been pretty

14:20

consistent throughout my life. And

14:22

the only difference is that

14:25

other kind of down the middle is when I used

14:27

to do drugs and now I don't do drugs because

14:29

I truly found out I can't

14:31

smoke weed anymore because my brain is like, we

14:33

just panic attack time. And

14:36

so we're throwing a party. Yeah. And

14:39

I don't want to be at that party. That's not, that's

14:41

not a party I want to be at. So

14:45

weed when I was younger actually really

14:47

calmed my anxiety and was like, was

14:49

like one of the first moments I

14:51

remember. I don't even

14:53

know if I felt like myself. I just felt less like

14:57

on edge and I couldn't, you know,

14:59

I didn't know I was self medicating, but somewhere in

15:02

my twenties weed was just like, no, we're going to

15:04

do the opposite. And I, I,

15:07

I still feel like there's not a literature, a

15:09

lot of literature on why some people

15:11

go from it being a calming thing

15:13

to being a panic thing when nothing

15:16

has changed other than maybe I have

15:18

more responsibilities. How

15:21

often do you get the panic attacks? I,

15:24

it's so weird because I

15:26

had one on stage in

15:28

November and before that I had one

15:30

while driving

15:33

maybe a year earlier. So

15:35

it's gotten down to maybe once a year

15:39

in the last couple of

15:42

years. But I would

15:44

say I used to get them every

15:46

couple of months often while driving. And

15:50

alone and at night, like there was

15:52

something about the just

15:54

truly my mind wandering while doing

15:57

long drives late at night and it would just

15:59

trigger. And it's like, I

16:01

feel like I can't pull over. I'm a young woman on

16:03

the road at one in the morning, and

16:06

I'm scared, and I feel this

16:08

fear that's not based

16:10

in reality, but I can't get myself out

16:12

of it. So one of the

16:14

tools I had learned because that happened so often

16:16

was just to call a friend, not even tell

16:19

them what's happening, because I don't need to be

16:21

calmed by something I know isn't real. I

16:23

just need to get out of my head. So I would

16:25

often call my little sister who's

16:28

in LA and be like, hey, we

16:30

haven't caught up in a while. Can you tell me about

16:32

what's going on? And she'd be like, absolutely, blah, blah, blah,

16:34

blah, blah. And just asking her questions and focusing on her

16:36

would kind of take me out of my

16:39

mindset, and

16:41

it would calm me. And because

16:43

of doing that, it really helped

16:45

me when I had this

16:47

panic attack on stage, which I've never had

16:49

on stage before, knowing that breathing exercises, and

16:51

I don't know, I'm sure that helps for

16:53

other people, but it's never helped for me. I

16:56

just need to distract myself. And that's kind of how

16:58

I was able to get out of it and continue my set.

17:01

Wow. Where and when

17:04

did that panic attack on stage

17:06

happen? And what did it feel

17:08

like? So it happened, it

17:10

was the weekend of Thanksgiving. So I was

17:13

with my family, and then I was

17:15

in Baltimore, because my mom was actually in the audience

17:18

when it happened. So

17:20

I started my set,

17:22

and I got triggered. I

17:25

messed up my first joke, which

17:28

is a little like disorienting, but I was

17:30

like, hey guys, sorry. And then I went into the next joke, and

17:33

I messed it up again. And then

17:35

I finally just stopped and was like, hey,

17:37

I'm not okay, and I need a second.

17:41

And it's an audience, it's

17:44

a sold out show of my fans. And

17:47

they're all very nice, and they're like, sure. And

17:50

when I kind of like took the second

17:52

and looked up, my

17:56

whole body got hot, and all of a sudden,

17:58

I could just feel myself. freaking

18:00

out and getting scared and getting overwhelmed.

18:03

So then I know to call it, so I

18:05

did say like, hey guys, I'm having a panic

18:07

attack. I just need, just give

18:10

me a little bit more time. They started cheering.

18:12

I was like, absolutely not. Please don't do that.

18:15

Like I can't, that's, I cannot. And

18:17

I was like, just, it's gonna be weird. Just give me

18:19

a second. And I remember looking at my set list, it

18:21

almost like melting. Like I was like, oh, that's not gonna

18:23

ground me. And I just

18:26

had this moment where I was like, I have to, I

18:28

can't do my old stuff because it's

18:30

too rooted in my brain. I should, what

18:32

I normally do is I'll do new stuff at the end, but I

18:34

just kind of was like, I'm gonna do new. And I told them exactly

18:37

what I was doing. I was like, hey, I need

18:39

to just do new stuff, try

18:41

things out, kind of be a little bit more loose.

18:43

It's gonna be a little stumbly, but just let me

18:46

see if I can get myself out of this. And

18:48

I did, and I was shaky. My voice was shaky.

18:50

My hands were shaky. They were

18:52

very generous. I'm not delivering it nearly to

18:54

the ability I could, but after about the

18:57

second joke, I started to like get back

18:59

into it and feel good. They're laughing. And

19:01

then I was able to kind

19:03

of turn around and get back into the older stuff. So

19:06

I mean, some of that is 100% the audience getting

19:08

it. I

19:10

had a couple of fans come up to me afterwards

19:13

and be like, you've always

19:15

talked about anxiety. It's always made me feel

19:17

better, but I don't, because I was apologizing

19:19

to people and they're like, you have nothing

19:21

to apologize about. But it's hard for, I

19:24

base a lot of my stuff on professionalism

19:26

and in the moment, I

19:28

didn't give myself the leniency of somebody

19:31

that's, let's say sick

19:34

or however

19:36

you wanna describe it. I just, I

19:38

presented it as I messed up my

19:40

job. And it took me probably a

19:43

while to process that

19:45

and be like, I don't have anything to

19:47

apologize for on top of the fact that

19:49

that happened five minutes in and then afterwards

19:51

I did a full hour. And that is

19:55

a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing

19:57

to do when you just feel tired, let alone.

20:00

feel triggered

20:02

and have a panic attack. So I

20:04

think probably weeks

20:07

to months later, I started to not

20:11

pat myself on the back, but be proud

20:13

of like all the past experiences for what

20:15

made me able to handle it when it was a public

20:18

panic attack because I've had so many private

20:20

ones. Right, right.

20:22

Yeah, you leaned into what you knew.

20:24

Was that from therapy or more

20:28

from just the wisdom of having experienced this

20:30

so many times? I

20:32

would say the panic attack has been

20:34

mostly experienced. Like depression has definitely been

20:37

therapy and all the work

20:39

my therapist has helped me do

20:41

and stuff like that. I think with panic

20:44

attacks because, you know, she's not

20:46

on speed dial. You know what I mean? She has clients

20:48

and a life. I've

20:50

processed them a little bit after the fact and

20:53

talked about them and figured out

20:55

sometimes why I was more

20:57

acceptable at this moment, you know, and

20:59

why they happened at certain moments. But

21:01

the actual getting through them has always been

21:05

probably 90% myself, sometimes 10%

21:08

whoever I'm talking to or who I

21:10

was with or whatever. Like I

21:12

used to have Xanax on me

21:14

and I've only used Xanax, I

21:16

think twice. Like when I really was like,

21:18

oh, I can't do this on

21:20

my own. But I'm

21:23

out of Xanax and I

21:26

probably should I've always kept it like I've

21:28

always kept like five in my purse as

21:30

like a like a safety net like you

21:32

know, like a yeah, like yeah, yeah, break

21:34

glass in case head balls off. So

21:38

I won, I'm

21:40

out and I probably should go at least

21:42

get a few just to have and like

21:44

I said I've been dealing with this for

21:46

probably I think I've been having panic attacks

21:48

since I was in elementary school if I'm

21:50

honest, and I just didn't have the understanding

21:52

or the language or clearly

21:55

the experience to know what they were until I was

21:57

probably in my 20s, but I I've

22:02

had everyone from ones that feel

22:04

triggered by something that's happened outside

22:06

to something that's internally triggered it

22:08

to just they happen for no

22:10

reason that like I feel like

22:12

I've experienced each kind of one and

22:14

each kind of experience that I

22:16

just kind of trial and error

22:18

against my own will to figure it

22:20

out. What

22:22

did you call them or what did you think they were when you

22:25

were a kid and would get them? I

22:27

thought they were nerves. I think they started

22:29

when I was a gymnast because I did

22:31

gymnastics meets and I had these Polish and

22:34

Russian coaches that were not nice. I

22:37

remember this like tiny Polish woman hit me and I

22:39

was like, hey, I get hit at home. Like I

22:41

don't like this is supposed to be fun. Like I

22:43

was like, what are we doing here? But

22:46

they were relentless and they were mean. And

22:49

I felt the pressure

22:51

of performance and doing a good job. And I

22:53

was just raised as you can kind of probably

22:55

tell like you sign your name to everything. You

22:57

always show up 100 percent. My

23:00

dad would drop me off at gymnastics and was like, go give 100

23:02

percent. And it's like I

23:04

think I think there's a lot of pride I

23:06

have into anything I do. And I think that

23:08

shows. But I also think there's this undue

23:11

pressure from a nine

23:13

year old to an almost 40 year old

23:15

now that I sometimes can't

23:18

let go of. And I

23:21

think when I was you know, I would

23:23

get really nervous or overwhelmed or really like

23:25

my like now I know this whole body

23:27

getting high is like the beginning of it.

23:30

That would happen while I'm on a balance beam and I

23:32

would fall and I wouldn't and I would be shaking and

23:34

I wouldn't know how to like, you know, I don't

23:37

know if I would be able to to even today

23:40

rebalance myself on a balance beam in the middle of

23:42

a panic attack. So I don't know what I was

23:44

expecting from nine year old me. But

23:47

knowing what it is and just calling

23:49

it for what it is takes

23:52

the edge off so much that I

23:54

don't. I

23:56

mean, I probably quit gymnastics when I was 14 because

23:58

of those panic attacks. not knowing that's what

24:01

they were. Yeah, you

24:03

got hit at home? We'll

24:11

find out more about that after the break. I

24:16

had to look up the word cinci to

24:19

see if it was considered

24:21

a real word like by

24:23

dictionary standards. Sadly dictionary.com and

24:25

Merriam Webster say no cinci

24:27

is not a word. Wictionary,

24:30

however, helps me out. Cinci

24:33

means very easy, presenting no

24:35

challenge. Playing a video game

24:37

on beginner level is cinci,

24:39

getting overwhelmed by one's choices

24:42

of shampoo at the store.

24:44

Cinci. And cinci was

24:46

what came to mind when

24:48

building my website, JohnMo.website, with

24:50

Squarespace. It was cinci to

24:52

set up, cinci to edit,

24:55

cinci to maintain. Squarespace

24:57

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first purchase of a website or domain.

25:46

It's a cinci. It's

25:48

cinci. Back

25:53

with comedian Liz Mealy. We've been

25:55

talking about depressive episodes, panic attacks,

25:57

and she mentioned as an

25:59

aside. that she got hit at home.

26:02

So I had to follow up on that one. You

26:06

got hit at home? Yeah,

26:08

I would say it was like, I

26:13

love my mom. My mom's one of my favorite people

26:15

and I don't judge my mom whatsoever, but

26:17

she had five kids

26:19

and she worked a

26:21

full-time job and she

26:23

was stressed. And when

26:25

she couldn't handle things, that was,

26:29

she got us to listen, I'll tell you that much.

26:31

So I, as somebody that doesn't have kids, I

26:40

don't even think I'm in the position to judge,

26:42

but I don't judge my mom at

26:45

all. And I very

26:47

much, as I become very

26:49

close with my mom, I,

26:52

nobody in my family handles stress well. And I don't

26:54

think I'll ever be in a position to be, to

26:57

feel as helpless and stressed as

26:59

my mom did when we were kids. What

27:03

kind of, was it just a smack on

27:06

the butt or what kind of? My

27:08

mom threw things the most. That was

27:10

my mom's, yeah. So my mom threw

27:12

a lot of stuff at us. I

27:14

would say that the hits were more

27:16

sparing and they were actually more driven

27:18

towards my brothers. And

27:21

often it was me and my sister getting in the

27:23

way to prevent that because they were younger. And

27:26

it was burst. Like we had, there's

27:28

holes in the walls. I remember our

27:30

old kitchen, like a scene from a

27:32

movie, like there were holes by the

27:34

phone that was on the wall. There was

27:37

holes almost by every entrance.

27:39

And we all have like a dark sense

27:41

of humor. So people would buy her these kitschy, like, you

27:44

know, home, you know, home is

27:46

like those kind of home is where the heart is, but

27:48

it would have something kind of cynical on it.

27:50

And they would, they covered up all the holes.

27:52

And it wasn't until my parents were selling the

27:54

house, like six years ago that

27:56

my dad patched. Cause he was like, why am I patching up these

27:58

holes? She's just going to make more. holes. So like

28:01

there were just signs hanging

28:03

in front of these holes of when my mom

28:05

would get angry. And you know,

28:07

when I was younger, I was really scared of my mom

28:09

because I didn't understand it. And I didn't know and, you

28:12

know, sometimes my dad would call and give us a heads

28:14

up like your mom had a bad day at work, maybe

28:16

clean the house, but like, first

28:19

of all, we're kids. And second of all,

28:24

she's not mad about the house being not clean.

28:26

And she's not really mad about work. She I

28:28

think she felt out of control.

28:30

And she didn't know how to

28:32

express herself. And, you know, I feel

28:34

bad for the walls and some of the

28:37

plates that we no longer have. But I

28:39

don't know, I, I started to really try to

28:42

understand my mom and my 20s. And I think

28:44

as I've gotten older, and closer

28:47

with my mom, I, I

28:49

don't know, I feel I feel more bad

28:51

that she went through that alone, than

28:54

judging how she reacted to it.

28:56

Because I am very similar to

28:58

my mom. And I don't think I

29:00

would have done a better job. Well,

29:03

I watched your special murder sheets, and

29:05

it is great. And thank you for

29:08

making it. Because I

29:10

am who I am and host the show that I do, I

29:12

noticed that you mentioned your family having

29:15

mental health issues on

29:17

both sides. And then you kind

29:19

of jump off that statement

29:22

and move on to something

29:24

else. What was the story with your

29:26

family on both sides? So

29:29

I do have other jokes about it. So I

29:31

talk about it more. I talk

29:34

about a little bit, I actually talked a little

29:36

bit about the abuse at the end of the

29:38

ghost of that ghost of academic future, which came

29:40

out last year. And then I talk about my

29:42

brother's bipolar one

29:44

in self help me, which is two

29:46

years before that. So I there's if

29:48

you not, that's not your homework, but

29:50

there is a layer of like the

29:53

catalog gets to it. Truly every single

29:55

special I talk I gained

29:57

more confidence and talk about it more and more. But

30:01

both my grandmothers were mentally ill and

30:03

in and out of mental hospitals and

30:06

both committed suicide. And

30:09

then my parents, I

30:12

think it's hard to say when somebody's

30:15

undiagnosed, but I feel like it's probably

30:17

a combination of the trauma

30:19

of having mentally ill parents and

30:22

probably growing up in the 50s. I

30:24

think that's its own trauma. And

30:27

then, and then, um, brother to

30:29

suicide too. It's really true. And

30:31

young, I think my dad was probably

30:33

19 and my mom was probably 20. And

30:37

then my brother Sam, uh, got

30:40

diagnosed with bipolar one when

30:43

he was 19. And

30:45

so that was probably 11 years ago and

30:47

he was in and out of mental hospitals

30:49

for probably about five years. He's doing great

30:51

now, but it was my

30:53

parent, my mom really didn't talk about her mom

30:56

that much. And my dad talked

30:58

about the mental illness a little bit, but it was

31:00

always like very

31:02

surface talk about this. And just, I always had

31:04

an awareness that it was in my family

31:06

and it was something to be worried about. But

31:09

when my brother started having these psychotic

31:11

breaks, it was the first time both

31:13

my parents started to explicitly talk

31:15

about memories. And I think because

31:17

you know, mental health

31:19

in the 50s and 60s wasn't

31:21

the best. My

31:23

dad didn't really know what was wrong with

31:26

his mom. And clearly it now looks like

31:28

his mom probably did have bipolar one because

31:30

like the episodes my brother were having, my

31:32

mom, my dad was like, that's how my

31:35

mom would act. So I

31:37

think it was incredibly triggering when my brother was going

31:39

in and out of mental hospitals.

31:41

I was very much the

31:43

voice of reason often because you have these

31:45

two people that are truly

31:48

gutterily making a response, not wanting him

31:50

to go into the hospital because that's

31:52

where bad things happen to their parents

31:55

and me being like, Hey man, he

31:57

isn't right. He's

32:00

sick. You need to go to the doctor when you're

32:02

sick. And truly having to

32:04

like, and being scared because when my

32:06

brother was in psychotic breaks, he wasn't

32:08

himself. And my brother's the kindest, funniest,

32:10

sweetest manual meat. And when he

32:13

was having psychotic breaks, he was scary and

32:15

he was mean. And my parents were

32:17

like, well, he would never hurt us. And I was like, he

32:19

would never hurt you guys. But this

32:21

different version of him could, and

32:23

you aren't basing

32:25

your decisions and who he is right now.

32:29

And he hated being in those hospitals and

32:31

I would visit him every weekend and it was

32:33

a horrible time for my entire family.

32:36

But I also don't know if

32:38

we would have recognized it as

32:40

early if it wasn't something that

32:43

our family was predisposed

32:45

to. And also, my parents

32:47

have jobs, they have health insurance. Sam

32:49

was 19 and 19 to about 25. So

32:52

he was under my parents' health insurance. There's

32:55

a lot of things that we can be

32:57

grateful for because we were

33:00

on top of it, I guess you could say. You

33:04

got thrust into the role of caretaker for

33:06

your siblings because you're, are you the second

33:08

of five? I'm the second of

33:11

five, but my older sister was an

33:13

even better gymnast and she went to

33:15

a gym that was like an hour away in high

33:17

school. So she was kind of always gone and I

33:20

kind of got pushed into the older

33:22

sister role. So what did

33:24

that entail taking care of? It

33:26

was three younger brothers then? So

33:30

I have a younger sister who's five

33:32

years younger and then Sam is nine

33:34

years younger and Greg is 11 years

33:36

younger. So it was a lot of

33:38

babysitting, a lot of laundry, cooking, nobody

33:40

really cooked, a lot of microwaving.

33:42

We did some extreme microwaving. Yeah,

33:45

I was my mom's kind of

33:48

right hand, you know,

33:50

daughter. I feel like it

33:52

was put on me to

33:55

make sure that everything got done and everything was

33:57

okay and that my mom was okay and that my

33:59

siblings went to bed. The and on.

34:02

My mom's thanked me. I know. You

34:04

know? I think. My. Mom

34:06

again was in survival mode. I think my

34:08

dad was just you know he had five

34:10

kids and he says trying to make sure

34:12

everybody eats so I think everybody was felt

34:15

like they were doing their role and. I.

34:20

I didn't. I don't feel like I had a

34:22

childhood in a lot of ways, but I also

34:24

and maybe that's why I kind of got into

34:26

comedy. which is like I'm going to be a

34:28

time forever and like it's it's you know I

34:30

did. And what? Amazon as they already do

34:32

like ribbons? Yes,

34:35

but there is awesome. I

34:38

made sure that I haven't

34:40

completely. Like. A

34:42

I think therapies really helped because I

34:44

think there was a little bit as

34:46

stagnation and my growth and fighting authority

34:48

and fighting having traditional life and while

34:50

I still kind of feel that way,

34:52

I think there's a way to do

34:55

it and not. Be

34:57

stunted about it and I think I I was

34:59

a little bit like on the they do the

35:01

complete Opposite because I had. A very

35:04

responsible. Labor. Intensive

35:06

childhood. but yea, I.

35:08

Mean, I'm I've never. Wanted to have kids.

35:10

I never wanna have kids. I have two kids and

35:12

my. Brothers both live in New York and

35:15

I feel I'm very responsible for them.

35:17

But I've also you know they're adults.

35:19

They're doing their thing. But. I

35:21

do pick up the phone

35:23

pretty fast. yard bed boot

35:26

so. Were you them Kind

35:28

of a people pleaser? We're other

35:30

people in front of your own

35:32

needs from from that occur. More

35:39

about people for using for enough to the

35:41

break. I don't know I could. I

35:45

want you to show some respect. To.

35:47

Your ideas. that's right

35:50

those ideas you come up with

35:52

for business or an artistic projector

35:54

some kind of thing that you

35:56

want to make interact with the

35:58

world respect those ideas that from

36:00

your mind. Give the ideas there. Do nurture

36:03

them and give them a chance, because

36:05

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36:07

build things. One of

36:09

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36:11

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go to squarespace.com to

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save 10% off your first purchase

37:10

of a website or domain. We're

37:17

back with comedian Liz Mealy. Before the break,

37:19

I had asked if she was a people

37:22

pleaser, putting other people's needs way

37:24

in front of her own. I'd

37:26

like to think I'm a recovering people pleaser, but

37:28

I still fall into it. I

37:31

still struggle with it. I still feel bad when

37:33

I set boundaries. But yeah, I don't think I

37:35

realized how intensive

37:37

a people pleaser I was, because that's

37:40

also where I got my self-esteem from. You know, my

37:42

parents would be like, thank you so much. Oh, you

37:44

did such a great job. Well, we couldn't have done

37:46

that without Liz. And it feels good. You know, but

37:48

then you don't realize that you start to become resentful

37:50

or angry or, or that you're

37:52

not even attuned to your own needs, let

37:55

alone advocating for them. And that I

37:57

think some of the biggest work I did in therapy was.

38:00

understanding. Why? I well

38:02

as a people pleaser. How I do

38:04

it while the manipulation of it as

38:06

well, which is like you often do

38:08

it because it's your way of kind

38:11

of controlling the situation and I. I

38:14

don't want to manipulated situation I want some a show

38:16

up because they want to show up and if they

38:18

don't that's information and you know you you take. It

38:20

any me aside. Based.

38:22

On. Facts and

38:24

not stealing things to

38:26

on. Guilt people or

38:29

whatever. It is that it sometimes feels like.

38:34

I'm interested in how you got into comedy

38:36

because you got into com be really gone

38:39

like sixteen. Was that?

38:41

were you doing something similar to what you're

38:43

older sister is doing? Like finding a way

38:45

to get out of a house and and

38:47

travel travel far away to do something. I

38:49

mean that is a valid point. I think I just.

38:52

I. Love comedy so my it's like I

38:54

discovered it when I was like. Twelve.

38:57

Thirteen and. As.

38:59

Soon as I discovered it, like

39:01

someone clicks like it. I

39:04

don't know, like I loved funny movies

39:06

like I'm very much grew up with

39:08

their that pratfall Sandra Bullock phase. You

39:10

know any mean I thought that's what

39:12

I wanted to be. And then when

39:15

I discovered Stand Up, it's something, just

39:17

clicked because I'm dyslexic. So I I

39:19

was writing and I really loved writing

39:21

but I would never show anybody because

39:23

it's like chicken scratch and it's not

39:25

spelled Ray and what have you and

39:27

I was really embarrassed and then when

39:29

I saw Stand Up as like oh,

39:31

I can write but nobody ever physically

39:33

sees it and I. Can be funny

39:35

and. All the attentions on me as

39:37

like you know, one of five and it

39:39

just like everything kind of aligned with. Like

39:42

what I wanted. And. What would

39:44

make me feel special and how I. Wanted my

39:46

attention to be. You. Know

39:48

scene and. I.

39:51

Just. i don't know

39:53

i could i watched it as much as a

39:55

clinic quoted as i read books about it he

39:57

does is before podcast and stuff and so you

39:59

know there's a memoirs, there's a few

40:01

like joke books, a few

40:04

how-to books, but my

40:06

learning and just my obsession with watching is

40:09

just I think it was healing in a

40:11

time where I was really overwhelmed

40:14

and scared and

40:16

frustrated and lost. So I think

40:18

just liking something

40:20

and laughing and the humor

40:22

of it all was healing.

40:25

And then when I started

40:27

to think about doing it for me, like

40:29

actually trying it, it was

40:31

this goal that pulled me into

40:34

a direction of safety. Like it felt

40:36

like I

40:39

have a purpose and I have a thing

40:41

that's my own and something that

40:44

I can control. And

40:46

what I really appreciate about,

40:48

I mean, I love

40:50

art. Like I don't know if you

40:52

can see behind me, like I love buying art, collecting

40:54

art. I just I love weird art. It's like one

40:56

of my favorite things. And I remember

40:59

drawing when I was probably like eight and having an

41:01

idea in my head and trying to put it on

41:03

the paper and it looks nothing like the paper and

41:05

just being like, oh, I don't know how to draw.

41:07

But when I discovered stand up, I was

41:09

old enough to know that you're

41:12

not just innately good at things. And

41:14

reading these memoirs and reading these books, people being

41:16

like, we got to practice and you have to

41:18

get up more and it doesn't just

41:21

happen. I was old enough to know that it

41:23

took work and I was driven

41:25

enough to be like, I want to do

41:27

this work. And I feel fortunate

41:29

that I discovered stand up when I was

41:32

mature enough to know the work

41:35

that it would take and driven enough and

41:37

passionate enough to do that work. Comedy

41:41

especially stand up comedy, I always found to

41:43

be when I was a kid to be

41:45

so reassuring because it's not that it was

41:47

predictable, it was full of surprises. But the

41:49

format was like, okay, someone's going to get

41:51

up, they're going to talk for a few

41:53

minutes, they're going to tell a set up

41:55

and they're going to tell a punch line,

41:57

and then they're going to move to the

41:59

next thing. And then at the end of their

42:01

set, they'll do some sort of callback to something earlier

42:03

in their set. It was

42:05

like the understanding that format

42:08

felt very safe, I think. Yeah.

42:11

And it feels surmountable.

42:13

Like it feels like a skill. As

42:17

opposed to if you

42:19

need to be tall for something, you feel

42:21

like there's a limit of how far you

42:23

can go with it. Like I didn't feel...

42:27

I felt a little bit of a limit being truly

42:30

a young girl, but nobody told

42:33

me I couldn't,

42:38

including my parents. And I feel

42:40

very fortunate to have grown up when I grew

42:42

up and how I grew up.

42:45

And my parents have... You

42:47

know, I'm not gonna say they weren't scared. I'm not

42:49

gonna say they didn't put boundaries on it. I'm not

42:51

gonna say they didn't throughout the harder times try to

42:53

convince me to get some kind of real job. I

42:57

thought about... I went to college and I thought about

43:00

dropping out several times and my dad would be

43:02

like, please don't.

43:05

But they

43:07

never told me I couldn't and they never

43:09

told me I shouldn't and they never got

43:11

in the way. And even more so, I

43:14

borrowed my dad's car every

43:16

weekend for years, four

43:19

years. And then when I saved up

43:21

money, I asked my dad if he'd helped me buy a used

43:24

car. I think I saved up almost $5,000 and

43:27

I just wanted him to make sure I

43:29

don't get a piece of junk. And

43:31

he actually surprised me, gave me the car

43:33

that I had been borrowing for eight years

43:36

and said, keep that money because it's gonna

43:38

break down and use that

43:40

for repairs and for gas and insurance.

43:43

And that was a game changer.

43:47

And then between being able to borrow

43:50

it every weekend was a game changer

43:52

but then having it was a game

43:54

changer. And those moments are

43:56

like... You know, there's also times that

43:59

my parents didn't like the... jokes I was doing,

44:01

but they never said I couldn't, you know,

44:03

like, I think there's

44:05

a lot of things that I'm incredibly fortunate

44:07

about, when it comes to

44:10

being a young person and a young woman

44:12

doing, doing

44:15

something that most people

44:17

don't understand, and, and

44:19

could be fearful of. Yeah.

44:23

Do you, do you talk

44:25

to them about the material about your family

44:27

before you present it? I mean, are they,

44:29

do they get surprised? Do they veto any

44:31

jokes? With my mom,

44:34

my dad didn't watch me for years because we

44:37

did have a little bit of a tiff

44:39

about how he responded to stuff. And

44:42

I kind of said to him

44:44

like, Hey, this is my favorite thing.

44:46

And if you can't even fake enjoying

44:50

it and make me feel bad, then

44:52

I think maybe you shouldn't come. And

44:55

he was like, I think you're right. And

44:58

so for a while he didn't like, and

45:00

there's still stuff he doesn't like that I

45:02

do. But he knows that like, if

45:04

he wants to be there, he has to like, you

45:06

can't, you're not gonna love everything I do. And so

45:08

I think there's been a lot of growth for both

45:10

of us. So there was a real like chunk of

45:12

time my dad didn't see anything. And I didn't run

45:14

it past him because I didn't feel like he had

45:17

the sense of humor or the openness to hear it.

45:20

But my mom has always loved

45:23

my stand up loved coming to shows. And

45:26

I would ask her, I'd be like, Hey, am I is it

45:28

okay? If I talk about this, are you okay with this? And

45:30

she's only once told I

45:33

had a joke, probably

45:35

over 15 years ago, because both

45:37

my parents both my grandparents committed suicide.

45:39

And that's actually how my parents met.

45:42

And I had this joke that maybe

45:46

that's how I'm going to meet my partner

45:48

is through something really tragic. And

45:51

I wasn't vivid about their experience. I was

45:53

just very vivid about this tragic thing of

45:55

how I was going to be my partner.

45:58

And it was the only time that my mom. was

46:00

like, I just

46:02

really miss my mom. And that

46:05

joke makes me sad. And

46:07

sorry, but it was like, all right,

46:09

I hear you. And I just, I

46:11

threw it away. Like, I don't ever wanna

46:13

hurt my parents. I don't wanna hurt anybody.

46:16

But I definitely don't wanna make my mom sad. So

46:20

even with the jokes about my mom, I

46:23

always ask for permission because I don't wanna make her feel

46:25

like a villain or make her feel bad. And my mom,

46:27

she's so funny. She'll be like, I'll just say it some,

46:30

I'll think of somebody else's mom. I was like, we have the

46:32

same face and there's no other mom.

46:35

It's not like I'm like, my friend said, and

46:37

she's like, it just doesn't bother her. My mom

46:39

can see the performance aspect of it and the

46:41

joke of it. And I

46:43

think my mom knows I don't

46:45

judge her and I care about her. So with

46:48

my brother, I've talked about my brother's mental

46:51

illness and especially

46:54

when he was better, it didn't help to talk

46:56

to him when he wasn't better. But he always

46:58

said, if it's funny, it's fine. But

47:00

I also am very, my

47:03

sister will tell me some good news and

47:06

I'll be like, have you told mom or have you told blah, blah, blah?

47:08

And she goes, not yet. And I go, okay, let me

47:10

know when you do because that's not my news to share.

47:13

I don't wanna break the news of some promotion or something

47:15

like that, because that's not my news. But I do

47:17

wanna talk about it behind her back. That's

47:20

fun. But it's

47:22

not my news to break. So that's almost

47:24

how I feel a little bit with standup

47:26

is some of these aren't my

47:28

stories. I have my sister perspective or my

47:30

daughter perspective, but I do kind

47:33

of ask permission sometimes,

47:35

I won't say all the time, but most of

47:37

the time, can I talk about this? And if

47:39

there's anything in it that they don't want me to

47:41

share. But even like I have a bunch of jokes

47:44

about my boyfriend and I just kind of like, you

47:46

let me know what is okay

47:48

and not okay. Yeah, yeah.

47:53

How did they meet in the wake

47:55

of suicides? Was it a support group

47:57

or something? No, I wish they went to a support

47:59

group. Um, uh, no,

48:01

I, I still a little muddled

48:04

on the story, but basically my, my

48:07

dad's mother committed suicide. And then a

48:10

year later, my mother's mother

48:12

committed suicide. And he heard about it because

48:14

I think her roommate, he either dated her

48:17

roommate or was friends with her roommate. And

48:19

as somebody had that had just gone through

48:21

that, my dad's a very kind and empathetic

48:24

person and he just wanted to lend support

48:26

since he was still in that space. And

48:29

that's how they became friends and then eventually started

48:31

seeing each other. Okay.

48:34

Um, so I, we

48:37

open this conversation talking about this depressive episode

48:39

that you had and, and I'm so glad

48:41

that you were able to kind of come

48:46

up from, from those depths. Is

48:49

that something when that happens, do

48:51

you have the perspective of, Oh

48:54

my God, this is just life. This is reality.

48:56

Is that how it's always going to be? Or

48:58

do you think this is temporary? I've been through

49:00

this before. It has a beginning and an end.

49:03

The second, I feel really fortunate. Like

49:05

they, like I said, they were much

49:07

worse when I was younger and on

49:09

birth control that, and I've had

49:11

enough post birth control that they've never been as

49:14

bad. So I even have like a degree of

49:16

change that has given me even more

49:19

perspective because the older ones felt longer

49:21

and endless. And I

49:23

really do think I was in some kind of, um,

49:26

low grade depression for probably 10, 15, 20 years.

49:32

I don't, I don't even know. Um, this

49:34

time, yeah. Kind of thing. What

49:36

is it called when you like disconnect? I

49:38

always forget the word. Um, dissociation.

49:40

I think I was dissociated for like 20

49:43

years. I

49:45

really felt like who

49:47

I am now compared to who I was

49:49

as a teenager and in my twenties is

49:52

so different. And

49:56

I, when I started to learn about this association

49:58

or even just like kind of low grade

50:00

depression, it just all

50:02

started to click. Like all, I

50:04

remember, I wrote this in a notebook

50:06

probably like in my late 20s, because

50:10

when I started to even learn about the mental

50:12

illness in my family and learn about mental illness

50:14

in general and learn about depression and all these

50:16

kind of anxiety, all these things that I started

50:18

to have a name for. All

50:21

these things about my personality that I

50:23

thought were unique were just collateral damage.

50:26

And it was like, so

50:28

disheartening to think you're original and

50:30

just realize that you're just kind

50:33

of like symptoms of issues and

50:35

trauma and whatever. And

50:37

it really bummed me out

50:39

on a different level that when I

50:41

started to feel better, I started to

50:44

see some of those things fade and

50:46

I started to kind of get to

50:48

know myself. And I am a pretty

50:51

happy person and I'm a really silly person

50:53

and I'm really an open

50:55

person. And who

50:59

I was, I was just a very

51:01

scared, sad person for so long. And

51:04

I think what comedy did for me was

51:07

help me discover that person even

51:09

on a baby level. And then therapy helped

51:11

me really flesh out and find myself and

51:13

heal the stuff that it just

51:16

felt like a film. You know what I

51:18

mean? Like, you ever like shower with like

51:20

shitty soap and it just even with the

51:22

water, it just feels weird. Working

51:25

in a bakery, same thing. Yes.

51:28

Or like, you know, people that are fishmongers

51:30

and they just that scent never goes away.

51:32

Like I felt uncomfortable

51:34

all the time, but didn't have the

51:36

words or the understanding their experience or

51:38

even the other feeling to know

51:41

exactly what it was I was feeling. And

51:43

I think drugs and alcohol were a way

51:45

to at least not care,

51:47

right? At the very least not care, but I don't

51:50

clearly a temporary fix and I didn't

51:52

understand it. And I think as

51:55

I've started to find myself both on

51:57

stage with stand up, but, you know.

52:00

off stage with books

52:02

and psychology and therapy, I

52:06

don't know, I just, I'm

52:09

not scared when these things happen as I'm

52:11

sad. I'm like, it's like a weird level

52:13

of, like, no, no, no, no, I'm so

52:15

busy. Like, we don't have time for this.

52:17

Like, that was borderline my reaction is like,

52:20

I have so much to do and I

52:23

don't have time to spend three hours trying

52:25

to convince myself to get out of bed.

52:27

Like, we don't have time for this. I

52:29

can't schedule in a depressive episode right now.

52:32

It's like, oh, guys, this isn't, can

52:34

we do this in July when I'm not pouring?

52:37

Like, so it's like, I

52:39

think there's this like weird

52:41

watching myself from the outside

52:43

frustration and like weird sadness

52:45

about my depression, which is

52:48

unhelpful. I have so

52:50

much experience with my own life, with

52:52

my friends, with my family, that I

52:54

know the talking points. I know, I

52:56

even know the life. So

53:00

I, I'm annoyed, I'm

53:02

sad, I'm stressed, but you know, I reach

53:04

out to my friends. I started talking to

53:06

my therapist more. I told people what was

53:08

going on. I, you know, drank

53:12

more coffee. Like, you know,

53:14

I, you know, you find the other drugs

53:16

you can utilize. So I, I

53:19

feel somewhat fortunate that

53:21

I, I

53:25

know I have a game plan. That's

53:27

great. The special

53:30

is murder sheets. We've been talking and it's

53:32

available on YouTube and you can hear the

53:34

bleeps that we spoke about. Yeah.

53:38

And we've been talking with Liz Miele. Liz, thank you

53:40

so much for your time. Oh,

53:42

thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you.

54:00

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