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0:30

the royals were so different when i was a kid

0:33

you know i found them absolutely

0:35

fascinating i mean i was a gay

0:37

kid growing up in the middle of texas so

0:39

of course i was drawn to the

0:41

glamour and i was just

0:44

caught up in the wow they've even those big houses

0:46

and it seemed fascinating to me

0:48

that is jeff kagan former

0:50

editor in chief of people magazine growing

0:53

up in a small town in texas the royal seemed

0:55

larger than life the fashion

0:57

the palaces the glitz and glam

1:00

there it seemed way

1:02

more like a fairy tales and reality

1:05

a joke internet as a shift in

1:07

how the

1:08

the over being portrayed less of that

1:10

pomp and pageantry and a lot more

1:12

runs and scandal there's

1:14

something satisfying

1:16

to people when they see

1:19

that sees impossibly glamorous

1:21

people have the same problems that we

1:23

do that their lives are really know better than ours

1:26

there's a lot of shot and freud's involved

1:28

but i thinks it's over the past couple of decades

1:31

the media has changed so the media

1:33

serves us more and

1:35

more and more the rope relationship

1:37

with the media has alone complicated

1:39

history

1:41

the saying goes all press is good press

1:43

the winters know all too well that

1:46

isn't necessarily the case

1:48

the that

1:50

school and the chief in that sense cooper

1:54

we hurry believes is waging a campaign

1:56

against islam

2:00

no public last twelve years ago

2:03

i , the media might

2:06

be interested in was i did

2:08

but i was not aware of

2:10

how overwhelming as attention

2:13

would become this failed not

2:15

just by a reporter

2:17

by leaders the bbc who looks the other

2:19

way rather than asking the tough question

2:22

this episode will speak with former

2:24

editor in chief of people magazine jess cagle

2:27

media phone and or i can see and

2:29

roll historian and biographer andrew lonnie

2:32

about the intricate relationship between

2:34

the royals and the press

2:37

diana former private secretary patrick

2:39

deaths and then writer and consulted exxon

2:41

say

2:42

good for the rise of the tabloids and the

2:44

twenty four hour news cycle and look

2:46

at how social media has changed the way we report

2:49

on the royals and affect the careful balance between

2:51

exposure and privacy will investigate

2:53

how william and harry have tried to readjust

2:56

the balance stuck in their favor of

2:58

to the person's obsession with their mother and

3:00

we'll consider is a series of misstep

3:03

in the carefully crafted sit down

3:05

interviews is exactly why

3:08

the queen has never given one

3:10

i'm tracey nickel and i'm aaron vander half

3:13

from vanity fair this is dynasty

3:15

the windsor episode seven class

3:18

of the tyson's the global press

3:20

thus the katie

3:23

how did you get involved in covering the royals

3:25

well i stay there in his with all the things

3:27

in life completely by accident

3:29

i'd always wants to be it unless but

3:32

i wanted to be a war correspondents not

3:34

a royal one i cut my teeth as

3:36

a show business reporter on the mail on sunday

3:38

or , should three calls because i spent years just

3:40

going to parties and it was actually at one

3:42

of those policies that i ended up something in

3:45

the prince harry who was meant to be studying

3:47

for his a levels at the time but

3:49

instead of course thing harry he without drinking

3:51

and having fun which immediately and

3:54

it me see him and he

3:56

actually invited me to come on have come on with him

3:58

and his inner circle so i

4:00

guess i got this fascinating snapshots

4:03

of his life and that's

4:05

lit the shots face of my career as a royal

4:07

correspondence he opened the door to

4:10

a secret world is yeah i know how much

4:12

do you were he regrets doing that now

4:15

i've learned from my years doing this that

4:17

it is really just unlike most

4:19

other journalism assignments eel

4:21

height it is completely different

4:23

to any other be and i think that's for a

4:25

couple of reasons actually you're covering

4:27

a family again

4:29

not many people in that family so it's very

4:31

very intensive it's not like covering

4:34

so business where you have lots of celebrities

4:36

and rice about you've also got to find

4:38

your own stories people usually

4:41

unwilling to talk to is certainly

4:43

nothing is delivered on a silver platter us

4:45

it's fiercely competitive am

4:47

i wouldn't have been told by one editor

4:49

you're only as good as your last scape

4:52

south by lines that is a pressure you

4:54

don't want to get things wrong he just don't

4:56

want to have egg on your face and

4:59

i think it's tough because often

5:01

you are reliance on sources

5:03

who can't be named so you

5:06

constantly walking the tightrope

5:08

between wanting to break these great stories

5:10

which of course hubbard's around the world

5:12

they get picked up said also

5:14

not wanting to fall out with

5:16

the palace with the royals themselves

5:18

so it's some it's a balancing

5:21

act shall we say it's interesting

5:23

that you said you originally wanted to be a war correspondent

5:26

because only spoke to media scholar laura

5:28

clancy's she actually compare that

5:30

job to being a real correspondent not

5:32

in terms of such sense but in terms of

5:34

how media organisations carve out an

5:36

entire be for royal repair it

5:39

if you think as a foreign correspondent our

5:41

war correspondents at silly to

5:43

have a royal correspondent

5:45

kind of privileges well nice at the same level

5:47

and i think it was really important way we size

5:50

done is to this balance

5:52

between visibility and invisibility

5:55

it is definitely a job that requires

5:57

a bit of choreography and will the for

5:59

i

6:00

this line of work there were longstanding agreements

6:02

between the press and the palace

6:04

that made this song and

6:06

dance as it was work with

6:09

royals to remain in the public eye whilst

6:11

preserving their privacy to

6:13

a degree he look and see

6:15

again

6:16

there are things like the pressure cooker agreement

6:19

which is where particular royals william

6:21

fights particular ,

6:24

on for example from the holidays they'll

6:26

be asked to take couple of photos and

6:28

then you'll be asked to leave and leave them alone

6:31

about that pressure cooker agreement

6:34

when william and harry were teenagers there was

6:36

an unwritten pact between the family and

6:38

the press

6:39

the new was that the press more

6:41

or less agreed to leave the boys alone while

6:43

they were at school so long as they were

6:45

allowed to cover a handful of pre

6:47

approved events like williams eighteenth

6:49

birthday at eton yeah that's right and

6:52

for the most part erin it a

6:59

a a

7:05

the not only works if you're inside

7:08

the tent in terms of the news organizations

7:10

who are a part of that system it's

7:12

the people outside it's the tabloids

7:14

it's the freelancers the pepper otzi

7:17

could break those rules now

7:19

it's pretty much open house

7:20

and because they're outside of the system it's not so

7:23

much breaking the rules as much as it is

7:25

ignoring their more not being went in on them and first

7:28

around the time we also saw the move

7:30

to a twenty four seven news cycle how

7:32

did that alter the job of rural correspondence

7:35

willing to change it because quite

7:37

simply there was more pressure to deliver

7:39

more stories i mean aaron at

7:41

that time with lessons of the mail on sunday

7:43

the newspaper can you imagine trying

7:46

to keep a scoop the you might get monday

7:48

or tuesday and till the end of the week

7:50

it was really but i've also seen a big

7:53

shift in the way that news gets picked

7:55

up and sort of we

7:57

manufacture it might it it's often how stories

8:00

are interpreted by other online

8:02

news outlets so for example i've

8:04

, story published in vanity fair which have

8:07

accurate so a supporting proper

8:09

fact checking checking problem

8:11

with the palace when i run it but

8:14

That story then gets picked up by a

8:16

tabloid or another publication. By

8:18

the time the story pops up on my Google Alerts.

8:20

It's completely different from the one.

8:22

i that actually reminds

8:25

me one of the first times we had that experience what

8:27

we were working together.

8:28

you had a source who very reasonably

8:31

in a very measured way completely unsurprisingly

8:34

said that when meghan was pregnant with their son

8:36

or c c and harry had decided

8:38

they wanted to raise the baby without gender

8:40

stereotypes in a quote unquote fluid

8:42

the way it essentially meant that they

8:45

weren't going to paint the nursery blue but instead

8:47

we're going for a neutral grace

8:49

and they were gonna fill it with toy trucks but

8:52

somebody latch onto the word fluid

8:54

and all of a sudden other outlets

8:57

were running with the story saying that they were going

8:59

to rain their child's gender fluid

9:01

it's and i think the word the got associated

9:03

with that in there some there was the

9:06

be our area

9:08

in that was an extreme example

9:10

of a story being picked up and

9:12

getting turned into something else entirely

9:14

all for the sake of sake headline grabbing

9:17

front page but the problem

9:19

is this appetite the more royal

9:21

stories ultimately is the case of currency

9:24

over quality and this and this of the things

9:26

that release winds meghan and hurry

9:28

up that it's all click bait

9:30

and the palace has a tight rope to walk with this

9:33

to and you can see that in their response some

9:35

interest is necessary the book too much can be

9:37

occurs

9:47

january the ninth two thousand and seven

9:50

kate middleton twenty fifth birthday

9:52

a day that should have been opposed to celebrations

9:55

but frankly became a piece of a nightmare

9:58

ever since kate had granted it from seen andrea's

10:01

and news about her relations

10:02

the prince william had gone public she

10:04

had become a popper i'd see safer keep

10:07

going to be that future queen of england that

10:10

was the question everyone especially

10:13

the press was dying to know the answer to

10:15

will by two thousand and seven william

10:17

and kate have been dating for six years and

10:20

so when her twenty fifth birthday came

10:22

around the press would convince

10:25

william with going to pop the question of

10:28

course they were wrong but the rumors

10:30

for enough to send the media into media

10:32

so on frenzy so that

10:34

morning when kate set data for chelsea

10:36

that meant dozens of photographers

10:39

are waiting outside hoping this have a photo of

10:41

her with a suppose it rang on

10:43

her finger a swarm of can with

10:45

clicking and flashing the walk down the street

10:48

just trying to make her way to her car

10:54

i

10:56

was told that kate was really quite

10:58

upset by that whole and

11:01

understandably. So so william

11:04

Furious. I mean, imagine you're celebrating

11:06

your Milestone birthday and you wake

11:08

up and you're going and

11:10

your apartment is Bob. You can hardly

11:12

get to work. can hardly go about your day. Everybody

11:15

in the media is convinced that this

11:17

thing

11:17

about you was true you're going to get engaged, but

11:20

you have no idea

11:21

if it's a leak from

11:23

somebody who knows about a surprise

11:25

you don't know about or if

11:28

it's just completely made up. it would

11:30

drive anyone crazy absolutely aaron and

11:32

the fact that kate with the royal girlfriend

11:34

at the time meant she didn't have any

11:36

protection officers to help history that

11:38

mother photographers she didn't have palisades

11:41

or immediate seem that she could call up

11:43

for help she was dealings with all of

11:45

this as a private citizen and

11:47

certainly after this incident prince

11:50

william actually did something which of to

11:52

that point where quite rare yes

11:54

he had his spokesman the

11:56

issue a statement on his behalf which

11:58

stated that he was

12:00

very unhappy at the pepper at sea harassment

12:02

of his girlfriend

12:04

and the same and went on to say that prince

12:06

william once more than anything

12:08

for it to stop miss ,

12:10

said like any other private individual

12:12

be able to go about her everyday business

12:14

without this kind of intrusion

12:17

and the statement concluded that the situation

12:20

was proving unbearable for all

12:22

those concerns now suppress

12:25

he said fuck off said fuck after

12:27

that statement but a few weeks later we

12:29

live in case actually swiss off so

12:32

what's the media to

12:33

interesting because william

12:35

really doesn't criticize or intervene with the

12:37

press that often it seems like

12:39

se pushed pretty far but

12:42

i think the escalation around kids twenty

12:44

first birthday was a moment to meet him

12:46

go enough is enough partially because it just like

12:48

change the future between them yeah

12:50

i agree and i think there will also excess

12:53

of the past the williams and

12:55

in fact it wasn't just him his thought

12:57

the press up on t father or number of mps

12:59

and parliament's to felt that the press

13:01

complaints commission which is the independent

13:04

regulatory body that responded

13:06

to complaints about the press hadn't moved

13:08

quickly enough to protect kate during

13:11

this time as well and here he got older

13:13

i think they both became increasingly concerned

13:16

and paranoid that just your personal

13:18

stories were getting

13:19

harry in particular was concerned about

13:22

his groups of friends being so to graphic in the

13:24

town or reporters turning

13:26

up on the doorsteps of girls he was just rumored

13:28

to be dating private information

13:30

that they'd only told one or two people

13:33

would make it to the tablets later

13:35

they would find out that paranoia was justified

13:38

they had actually had their voice mails hacks multiple

13:40

times yes this was one of the phone hacking

13:42

scandal that led to the closure of the news

13:44

the world back in two thousand and eleven

13:47

here former prime minister david cameron

13:49

addressing the house of commons at that time

13:51

this is bigger i'd like to make a statement in

13:54

recent days the whole country has been

13:56

shocked by the revelations of the

13:58

phone hacking scandal what this country

14:00

and this house has to confront is

14:03

an episode that is frankly it's disgraceful

14:06

i was was moment change

14:08

the media landscape and the already

14:10

strained relationship

14:12

between the royals and the press which

14:14

was now as an all time low

14:16

but it wouldn't be the last time the royals

14:18

sit legal action against the media

14:21

against year later in two thousand and twelve

14:23

william and kate took action against action

14:25

french magazine after they printed

14:27

pictures of kate sunbathing topless

14:30

while on a private holiday in the south

14:32

of from not to make matters

14:34

worse a cover story drugs while william and kate

14:36

were an important overseas tour

14:38

to malaysia and william and kate successfully

14:41

sued place the magazine who have find

14:43

a hundred thousand euros by

14:45

a french course he is andrew

14:47

lonely again

14:48

i think there's always this tension between

14:50

public duty and private pleasure

14:53

and the royal family and of course this is where

14:55

the problems begin

14:56

though this was the landscape when one

14:58

image meghan markle entered the seen

15:01

the royals had sought to reclaim a public private

15:03

divide and the press blizzard oppressive degree

15:05

of success that for meghan that

15:07

divide that the palace press office

15:09

depended on really never had

15:12

existed for her

15:13

the with an american actress who had already

15:15

been saving her image and she

15:17

had a social media presence in a blog

15:20

that

15:20

supporters to go to if they wanted to glean details

15:22

about her yes i mean you could pretty

15:25

much track hurt in to hollywood

15:27

but i think

15:28

it wasn't helped by the fact that have family

15:31

particularly her father had given

15:33

a lot of introduced to the press where they were sharing

15:35

private details about meghan and

15:37

had sold his with the whole world

15:40

because she was so publicly accessible

15:42

in that way he had all this the come

15:44

open season so the press tab proud

15:47

and pope and investigate a bit further

15:49

what do you think that the real thing to lose when the mystique

15:52

is gone are compromised will erin i

15:54

think the mystique is really important because

15:56

if you lift the lid on the magic there's

15:59

nothing left want to know you've let the genie

16:01

out the bottle and the clean has been

16:03

really careful i think to keep

16:06

that sense of mystique about the mauna kea

16:08

she's actually only opened up on camera

16:10

once and that was sir edward me a self

16:13

said the documentary elizabeth are

16:15

back in nineteen ninety two

16:18

i didn't have an apprenticeship my father died

16:21

much , young and says it

16:23

to sort of that sort of kind of taking

16:27

on and making

16:30

the best from new cat

16:32

it's a question is maturing

16:35

, into something that one cause

16:38

,

16:40

and accepting the fact that share you are

16:42

and and it's yours hey

16:45

no i spoke to as with me as a for my new

16:47

book the new royals which is about

16:49

the queen's legacy and the future of the

16:51

mauna kea and he's ascribes the experience

16:54

of fishing with the queen for buckingham palace

16:56

is one of the most extraordinary

16:58

things he'd ever done in his career

17:01

and i think it was quite simply

17:03

because you don't get to hear

17:05

the queen's these on anything so

17:07

what he had on tape with

17:10

so fascinating because it gave an insight

17:12

into the real queen we don't

17:15

know what makes her take and this is what makes

17:17

has such an enigma and therefore so

17:19

fascinating very few people

17:22

have had a real insight into her

17:24

life but there have been moments

17:26

oddly enough one of those moments came in two

17:28

thousand and three when the daily mirror

17:30

journalists ryan perry manage to get

17:32

into buckingham palace by posing

17:35

as a citizen his channel

17:37

five

17:39

when the party fine it's a

17:41

bombing apparently on the phone yells

17:43

out to the pub does anyone

17:45

know this why i'm harry blight on

17:47

a regular his at the bar

17:49

said oh silly and legal sleeping

17:53

pills , or not they say

17:56

see personnel of the royal

17:58

household income hey

18:01

it would quite a story and he went

18:03

on to revealed the world through the front pages

18:05

of his newspaper that the queen

18:07

had have breakfast cereal in shock

18:10

horror tupperware

18:12

that's kind of a monday in fact

18:14

you know knowing that the queen had

18:16

a serial at of tupperware yeah

18:18

erin but now it's time for all of us to have

18:20

a serial as it's tough for us and

18:23

actually the point is the devil

18:25

is always in the detail and you

18:27

know that seed wrestled the palace the queen

18:29

said legal action against the daily mirror which

18:31

was extremely rare for us and there

18:33

was a settlement reach where the newspaper agreed

18:36

to pay the queen around forty thousand

18:38

dollars in legal fees and agreed not

18:40

to publish any more articles or photograph

18:43

about perry's time at the palace

18:45

so that one any self horror

18:47

revelations i think it was more the site

18:50

that the press got to see

18:52

the royal family in a way that they have never

18:54

done before dusk censoring

18:56

the miss

18:58

majesty and the mystique of

19:00

the monarchy

19:03

the queen you know is she has very

19:05

carefully not let the mystique full

19:07

andrew landing again this the problem with the

19:09

younger generation to more access

19:12

to do you give to suppress the less

19:14

mystique the raise the more you have to explain

19:16

and justify the more ordinary be cool

19:21

i'm not sure that the modern royals really

19:23

had too much of a choice in the manner in the

19:25

old days they were really cloister

19:28

from normal society and there's

19:30

even a story and jonathan dimbleby his biography

19:32

of prince charles where

19:34

palace actually thought it was inappropriate

19:36

for the prince

19:37

the change for swimming in the regular school bathrooms

19:40

and he was a kid if idea that

19:42

they are set apart from the rest of us by their

19:44

bloodline just doesn't fly any more

19:46

they have to be representative of all the people in the nice

19:48

then and being somewhat really double

19:51

as how they've adapted to that change

19:53

fighting with definitely seen that particular

19:56

over the past couple of years of the pandemic

19:58

and also with the cambridge children

20:00

It's why we see William dropping

20:02

them off at a restaurant for a friend's birthday party

20:04

or playing tennis together. The

20:06

local sports club. It might

20:08

be a popular sports club, but it makes

20:10

the family seem more relatable.

20:12

But no matter how hard

20:14

they try. they never really be regular.

20:17

Can they just Kegel can

20:19

see one reason why the Press loves to

20:21

are all their dirty laundry? Family

20:24

is just completely unavoidable. The

20:26

cause I don't want to some but

20:28

these aren't like any fucked up

20:31

bunch of people in how could

20:33

they not be

20:35

the break own vanity fair's didn't see

20:37

the windsor

20:47

throughout the series we've seen some of

20:49

the ways that william and harry his experiences

20:52

inside the monarchy of deferred and

20:54

really led to their distinct and occasionally

20:57

opposite a purchase royal it but

21:00

, it comes to the media they do have something

21:02

in common yes they both dislike

21:04

and distrust the media and

21:06

they resent the media or intrusion

21:08

into their private lives but i

21:10

also think they both recognize the

21:12

fact that they can only exist with

21:14

the oxygen of publicity they

21:16

need us as much as we need them it's

21:19

a symbiotic and not mutually

21:21

exclusive relationship laura

21:23

clancy again media has always

21:25

been key to roll family so things like

21:27

portrait of henry the eighth for community powerful

21:30

coins from a diva money because it was the only

21:32

way in which people could see the ruler

21:35

and if you go to today i see what's really important

21:37

nowadays is television is

21:39

social media and the i think the

21:41

monarchy know that they need to be seen in

21:44

order to be understood in

21:46

order to be accepted

21:47

and i think were william seems to have accepted

21:50

that the media are always going to be a pause

21:53

little ice harry in contrast

21:55

to taken a very combative attitude

21:58

towards them saying that megan

22:00

will only engage with certain british

22:02

newspapers in the others and

22:04

then since sounding down as working royal

22:07

hurry and mickens have made it their mission

22:09

to take on the press harry

22:11

suing at least two newspapers for

22:13

alleged phone hacking and meghan successfully

22:16

sued the mail on sunday so breach

22:18

of copyright over letter she wrote to her

22:20

father thomas marco in what became a

22:22

very high profile and controversial

22:25

court

22:26

well you may not be as quick take legal

22:28

action but he has been outspoken

22:30

when it comes to the press he's most

22:32

explicit criticism came and may twenty

22:34

twenty one after the dyson investigation

22:37

for context it was an independent inquiry

22:39

into the tactics used by the bbc to

22:41

secure that explosive next any five

22:43

interview with princess diana the

22:45

report concluded that martin bashir

22:47

deceived his way to accessing

22:50

the princess of wales and that the btc his response

22:52

to his deception was quote woefully

22:54

in effect is in response prince

22:57

william released an official statement

22:59

welcome to the bbc except slow dice and findings

23:01

info in my view to

23:03

that a seat for why didn't he was obtained stanley

23:06

influence what my mother said it

23:09

brings indescribable sadness to know the

23:12

bbc his failures contributed significantly

23:15

the fear paranoia and

23:17

isolation that i remember from

23:19

those final years with

23:23

it was a damning condemnation of the national

23:25

broadcaster and while the bbc

23:27

apologize the sheer admitted

23:30

to having bank statements fabricated

23:32

seat did raise the question would

23:34

do you have done the interview had she

23:36

not been lied to by bashir

23:39

remember it was an interview that was

23:41

just sort of earth shattering

23:44

in it diana spoke about her struggles

23:46

authentic house and the difficulties in

23:48

her marriage specifically alluding

23:50

to the fact that prince charles with

23:53

still involved with camilla parker

23:55

bowles

23:56

around nineteen eighty six again according to the

23:58

biography written by they will be about your

24:00

husband he says

24:03

that your husband renewed

24:05

his relationship witnesses camilla

24:07

parker bowles were

24:09

you aware that i was

24:12

then i was in a position to ending versus

24:16

what evidence to do have that

24:18

the relationship was continuing even

24:20

though you are married so a woman's

24:23

instincts the very good could

24:27

do , mrs parker bowles was a factor

24:29

in the breakdown of your marriage

24:33

in his marriage so that they practice

24:38

that line it still makes

24:40

my hair stand on end this

24:42

interview with a major moment because

24:45

it was diana censoring the myth of the

24:47

monarchy in so many ways and

24:49

ultimately it led to the queen insisting

24:52

cells and diana get and divorce it

24:54

was also diana showing how real

24:57

influence and power by using the media

24:59

and what's remarkable is that twenty

25:01

five years after her death so

25:04

having an impact

25:06

a my opinion there's never been so an absolute mess

25:08

as princess diana know will there ever

25:10

be the reason why they know will there ever be

25:12

it's because of how the media changed little

25:14

some say writer commentator

25:16

and cultural critic

25:18

can be the most photograph woman in the wild with a

25:20

unique thing because it required the paparazzi culture

25:23

of acquired being followed constantly on

25:25

it required the kind of tabloid media coverage

25:27

so that's like a different level a singular

25:29

same that is never really existed

25:32

since

25:33

existed before it was a kind of fame

25:35

that really changed how we saw the royal

25:37

family's absolutely i mean

25:39

diana very nearly up tons the

25:41

institutions and i think made them

25:44

realize that they were fallible

25:46

and there was a very real potential

25:48

for this image of them as the royal family

25:51

which should represent unity

25:53

and stability to be totally

25:55

picks a pause is jess cagle

25:58

again former editor in chief of people the

26:01

the for diana came along we just had

26:03

never

26:04

seen the sort of suman side

26:06

of the royals before that kind of

26:09

south had never really

26:11

ben

26:12

exposed in disguise

26:14

in the mainstream press and so

26:17

charles and diana was

26:19

i was extremely complicated extraordinary

26:23

union and

26:25

break up but also it

26:27

was a new toy the media

26:31

watching these royals

26:33

lives like a soap opera

26:35

really often was a soap opera between

26:38

charles and diana the war of the wales

26:40

is as it was known in the tabloids least

26:42

became a pivotal an infamous

26:44

moments for the when says his patrick

26:47

justin princess and

26:48

former private secretary franchise

26:50

inviolable competing for public

26:52

popularity sixty been shows

26:54

recruited a political type

26:57

of news manager and political

27:00

the dial methods of essentially

27:03

trashing the opposition came

27:05

into effect this is a sad but true

27:07

consequence of up with told the war of

27:09

the whales it's and this is something

27:12

that has been a feature of run

27:14

media management ever since

27:16

there was a tap between charles

27:18

and diana and negative story about

27:20

diana woodley house of charles his office

27:22

and then the next day diana would

27:24

be on the from pages the king incredible

27:26

at a charity dollar

27:28

the perfect example came in the night

27:30

and nineteen eighty four when prince charles

27:32

sat for a tv interview with jonathan dimbleby

27:35

and admitted to having an affair yes

27:37

then princess diana's six

27:39

hours of the car in that show stopping dress

27:42

wiping charles of the from pages the next

27:44

day and all without the help of a

27:46

pr garage

27:48

just then again pretty silas

27:50

never had a full time press

27:52

secretary we would occasionally borrow

27:54

a press secretary from buckingham palace

27:56

for overseas to is for example

27:59

we thought twitter

28:01

communicate what princess diana was doing what

28:03

she said for what was important to her

28:06

was like the ranging good access to photographers

28:09

and letting the images do the

28:11

talking

28:11

he added followed around by photographers for

28:13

over a decade it was savvy of

28:16

her to realize that she could use up for her own benefit

28:18

it was astonishing erin but diana

28:20

actually had her own way of

28:22

handling the media machine occasionally

28:24

have newspaper editors to lunch with her

28:27

kensington palace i think

28:29

the panorama interview so that even

28:31

see couldn't control the

28:33

narrative

28:35

at the same time the diana

28:37

in that interview was messy and acidic

28:40

and clippy and that's the version

28:42

of diana that i am so devoted

28:44

to so even though

28:46

you can look at that interviewing a lot of different ways

28:48

and see it as a moment where she cemented

28:50

her legacy impossible

28:53

to deny that the rep professions are enormous

28:55

it's complicated but regardless of

28:57

her motivation for doing the interview it

28:59

was the beginning of the end for her

29:02

and i think that's why it's so painful to watch now

29:04

so when you consider the royals today

29:07

with a communications affairs and their social

29:09

media teams you play a big pause

29:12

into raising their public image trying

29:15

to control the media narrative is narrative tricky

29:17

game and the royals ten end

29:19

up falling sat on their face we

29:21

saw this and twenty nineteen when prince

29:23

andrew sat down for an interview with former

29:26

bbc newsnight presenter emily male

29:28

us you got the whole friendship with

29:30

epstein

29:31

that's where , at now

29:35

not as to not for the reason

29:37

being is that that the the people

29:39

that i met

29:41

and the opportunities that i was given

29:43

to learn

29:46

either by him for

29:48

the cause of him we're actually very

29:51

useful

29:53

aaron for me that insists he was

29:55

a car crash in slow motion

29:58

it was so painful to

30:00

watch i just remember thinking i

30:02

actually can't

30:04

listen to this anymore do i regret fact

30:06

that the that he has

30:08

quite obviously conducted himself

30:10

in a manner unbecoming yes

30:13

and becoming he was a saxophone

30:15

yeah but i'm being polite of

30:17

innocence the famous six of it

30:20

no i was

30:22

i right in right in having him as

30:24

a friend at the time

30:27

bearing in mind this for some years before he was

30:29

accused of being from a

30:31

sex offender i

30:34

i didn't using wrong then

30:37

the problem with the fact that once he

30:39

had been convicted

30:42

he stayed with my favorite

30:45

it you could either when people found out about my job

30:47

they would always ask about kate and meghann

30:49

but in the last couple of years it's

30:51

been what's the deal with prince andrew

30:54

what was that with the sweating and pizza

30:57

express who is he really doing

30:59

on that plane and

31:01

, settled out of court with the woman

31:03

who accused him of sexually abusing her and

31:05

she has denied witnessing or participating

31:07

and sexual abuse spin parts interview

31:10

he seemed so dismisses of the allegations

31:12

and what i've seen as victims reportedly went

31:14

through almost as though he didn't grasp

31:17

how serious the whole situation really was

31:19

he even said he didn't regret his

31:22

friendship with epstein

31:24

the fact that the royals don't always

31:26

seem to understand that were not just

31:28

interested in them as a soap opera they

31:31

do have these roles and society and connections

31:33

with the government's so it's about

31:35

it's about more than just ratings these classes

31:37

with the press or also about accountability

31:40

what i think's a so long answer

31:42

just thought he was gonna get away without

31:44

having to explain himself simply

31:46

because he was the queen some possibly

31:49

have favorite split that was so many

31:51

rumors swirling around about

31:53

his relationship with that seems that

31:55

he seems to have decided the best thing

31:57

to do would be to explain himself

32:00

on national television which he

32:02

did and it backfired

32:05

you do wonder errands ideas of perhaps

32:07

the royal courts have learned from the past

32:09

that sitting down sitting front of the camera

32:12

is almost always almost bad idea

32:14

it makes me suspect that they can not

32:17

only see themselves see themselves we see them

32:19

maybe and to believe that he was going to

32:21

be able to control possibly even change

32:24

the narrative and that together

32:26

with his our with a massive

32:29

mistake it's is shifting

32:31

have a struggle

32:32

the royals wield the power in that a

32:34

know that they're going to get column inches in front

32:37

pages and newspaper

32:39

editors and royal correspondence like ourselves

32:41

welcome those stories because that's what

32:43

sells newspapers and magazines and

32:46

that's what gets

32:47

here's how to just then again there is a simple

32:50

rule that i learned whenever you see

32:52

a royal story in the media you

32:55

have to ask yourself why is it back

32:57

who briefed it who comes

32:59

out of wealth who comes out of it badly

33:02

the think that these are the questions

33:04

the royals or more specifically that

33:06

aids to ask how

33:09

will become ounce of this is is positive

33:11

for the royal family is this a message we're

33:13

trying to communicate as he said

33:15

at the beginning erin it's a complex

33:17

relationship from the outside

33:19

it's easy enough to look at these moments

33:22

where things go totally off the rails

33:24

as a failure to fully think through

33:26

those questions

33:27

but the more you learn about the family the more

33:30

you begin to see how much their public dynamic

33:33

is saved the private consulate that

33:35

we got to wonder what

33:37

exactly are these wayward royals

33:39

rebelling against who are

33:41

the people behind them advising for

33:44

or against the decisions and who

33:46

is in charge of managing the well i

33:48

think buckingham palace aren't

33:51

always remain silent and so there's

33:53

a vegan

33:57

next time we'll explore the inner workings

33:59

of the royal

34:00

the organization can it be characterized

34:02

as the shadowy halls of power run by

34:04

men in suits or is

34:07

it an institution whether increasingly

34:09

more women increasingly seats trying

34:11

to find it sitting find the most

34:13

wow the royal household the

34:15

organization is a magic

34:17

machine it will do anything

34:20

you want

34:21

you do you have trouble to learn

34:24

how it works

34:25

that next on dynasty dynasties

34:28

hosted by clinical and me and

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winter hat and if lose by then

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he said in partnership with something else movie

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jacobs is our executive darby

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doris and brian er stat our editors

34:40

rob dozier zoe edwards she

34:42

got airs and so the lebeau are producers

34:44

the blame is also runner for success

34:47

and and jessica jones or associate producers

34:50

and he takes the solar many humbly

34:52

peyton he's or a production towards me

34:54

says this episode with the new by josh

34:56

gad and the scenes and was composed by willie

34:59

after the was done by sarah kurlansky

35:01

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