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0:31

There

0:31

can be few people in the world who are so

0:33

famous for a job they haven't even started.

0:37

When he does start, Prince Charles will be

0:39

the 64th sovereign in a family

0:41

line stretching back over a thousand years.

0:45

He may not succeed to the job until he's over 70.

0:48

Welcome to special coverage from Vanity

0:51

Fair's Dynasty, about the coronation

0:53

of Charles III. I'm

0:55

Katie Nicholl, Vanity Fair's Royal Correspondent.

0:59

And I'm Erin Vanderhoof, staff writer at Vanity Fair,

1:01

where I cover culture, books, music, and

1:03

the British Royal Family. And here

1:05

on Dynasty, we analyze the interplay

1:08

of power and personality within

1:10

this increasingly fractious family.

1:12

And especially now, with so much

1:14

on the line for the future of the British monarchy

1:17

and the UK's place in the world. For

1:19

the next few weeks, we'll be bringing you new

1:21

episodes in the run-up to and just after

1:24

the 6th of May coronation of

1:26

King Charles III. In this episode,

1:28

we're talking about the relationship between the Windsor

1:31

family and the media and what it tells

1:33

us about the hard job of

1:35

maintaining a monarchy within a

1:37

democracy. King Charles

1:39

will be officially proclaimed Britain's

1:41

new monarch at a meeting of the Assassin

1:43

Council at St. James's.

1:44

More than 2,000 invitations were

1:47

sent out this week for the service, which will be

1:49

held The stone of destiny is being prepared

1:51

for its... ...for the country and the world in

1:53

a grip of royal fever. Well, not quite.

1:55

When it comes to... Royal family can handle this kind of news.

1:58

They just follow the Queen Mother's mantra. Never complete... never

2:00

explain and they'll just be keeping quiet. So

2:03

Katie, how do you think royal coronations

2:05

provide a window into this?

2:07

We're really thinking of a once in

2:09

a lifetime moment. And of course

2:11

the media is absolutely vital

2:14

to making that moment, not just something

2:16

for the British public, the home nation,

2:19

but actually a spectacle for

2:21

the rest of the world. Now, if you look

2:23

at the hype around this coronation and it has

2:25

dominated a lot of the media coverage, page

2:28

after page, we've been drip fed, lots

2:30

of lovely new revelations and details

2:32

about the coronation from the quiche

2:35

Lorraine to the music that's going to be

2:37

played

2:37

in the Abbey. And yet,

2:40

fewer Brits have registered for street parties

2:42

compared to the Queen's Platt and Ghibli celebrations.

2:45

I think most people, certainly those that I've

2:47

spoken to are planning on using that extra bank

2:49

holiday in May to make a getaway

2:51

of it all. And rather than heading to central

2:53

London, they're going somewhere else. A

2:56

recent poll conducted by YouGov showed

2:59

actually that most Britons don't really

3:01

care about the coronation, which I

3:03

would imagine can only make for worrying reading

3:05

for the royals and their advisors. How

3:08

do you think this is going to compare to the Queen's coronation?

3:11

Well, Erin, I think Queen Elizabeth is a hard act to

3:13

follow full stop. Now, if you think back

3:16

to that moment on June the 2nd, 1953,

3:19

it was a pivotal moment, not just

3:21

for the monarchy, but for the country.

3:22

From the farthest corners of the world, they

3:24

have come to see the First Lady of our nation

3:27

journey in rich majesty to her

3:29

crowning.

3:32

The throb of excitement grows, for

3:34

within the palace, the Queen prepares

3:36

to ride to Westminster. And now

3:38

to herald her, the trumpets ring out.

3:41

The nation was gripped by

3:43

this historic occasion, this beautiful

3:45

young woman being crowned Queen.

3:49

At this time, most people didn't have

3:51

TV sets. Today, people are going to be watching

3:53

this on their phones, on their iPads,

3:55

they'll be streaming it on all sorts of multimedia

3:58

platforms. Back then, people were rushed

4:00

out to buy their own TV set. And

4:02

if you didn't have the money to do that, then you'd go and watch

4:04

it with a neighbor or a family member or a friend, because

4:07

this was the first time this sacred

4:10

historic ceremony was ever

4:12

televised. And that in itself created

4:15

a global phenomenon. And I think it's fair

4:17

to say, sparked an interest in the young

4:20

queen that continued for the rest

4:22

of her very long life and

4:24

very long successful reign.

4:26

Thus elevated by the combined

4:28

power of church and state, the

4:30

queen moves to the throne to receive the homage

4:32

of her princes and peers.

4:36

So I've been doing a lot of research on this

4:38

for a Vanity Fair article that's in the May

4:40

issue. And I connected

4:42

with Dr. Laura Clancy, who's a media

4:45

theorist at the University of Lancaster. And

4:47

she's also been a previous guest on Dynasty. But

4:50

in the past, she's written about how television

4:53

worked to create a new kind of intimacy

4:56

with the royal family. And that television

4:58

being a way you could see the royal family

5:00

became so important to the bigger growth

5:03

of television as a medium. And

5:05

for establishing

5:06

ideas about like television being about

5:08

emotional connection and trying to understand

5:11

and like see and get to know the people you're seeing on

5:13

the screen. We witnessed that emotional

5:15

connection when she died. But

5:18

I think

5:19

when you talk about television and the connection

5:21

that she created with her people, it

5:23

continued through much of her life. And certainly

5:25

in the early years of her reign, that very,

5:28

very important documentary, The Royal Family,

5:30

which was filmed back in 1969, which did

5:33

something that had never been done before and

5:35

took the cameras behind palace

5:37

walls into the lives

5:40

of the royal family.

5:41

So far, very few people have

5:43

ever seen what the job entails, but

5:45

now we can. We can follow

5:47

the present queen through a year. Where

5:50

shall we start? And of course, it

5:52

was absolute dynamite. I interviewed

5:55

shortly before his death, one of the

5:57

key cameramen on that programme,

9:47

Pass

10:00

me the fucking shotgun. I'm

10:02

Richard Lawson chief critic at Vanity Fair. And

10:04

I'm Chris Murphy, a Hollywood staff writer at Vanity

10:07

Fair. As the hit

10:08

HBO show comes to an end, we will finally

10:10

discover who will take the helm of Logan Roy's

10:13

media empire. We'll break down the intrigue

10:15

and backstabbing and analyze the truth layered

10:17

in the fiction. All that and a few well-known

10:19

voices will be stopping by to share their thoughts

10:21

and nerd out over their theories of who will take

10:24

over Waystar Roy Co. Find Vanity

10:26

Fair still watching in your favorite podcasting

10:28

app. First episode drops after Succession

10:30

airs on March 26th.

10:41

Erin, you've written a really fascinating essay

10:43

about

10:43

the royals and their very complex

10:46

relationship with the media. Tell us a

10:48

bit more about the research that you did

10:50

and kind of what you found. I mean everyone needs

10:52

to go and read this article, but I'm curious, Erin,

10:55

tell me about what you found, what you found so interesting

10:57

about it. Well, after Spare

10:59

and Harry and Meghan, you know, I feel like I

11:01

had this new appreciation

11:04

for how frustrated even the royals themselves

11:06

can be about that relationship. And

11:09

I wanted to talk a little bit about the

11:11

power struggles that play out in the press and

11:13

on social media,

11:13

but also whether

11:16

or not Charles can change the

11:18

relationship that his PR strategy has

11:21

with the print media and with, you know,

11:23

online media for a new era. So

11:25

I really started by going back to the past

11:27

and I learned a lot about just

11:29

like the history of print media in

11:32

the UK. It's different from the US

11:34

from the very beginning. UK has always

11:36

had a really big national print media

11:38

network since the railroads because it

11:40

was able to bring the newspapers to all parts of the

11:43

country, which is something that only even kind of recently

11:45

became possible in the US. And

11:47

in the early days, you know, it was before celebrity

11:50

culture really took off, before film culture

11:52

really took off. Royals were the main

11:54

characters of the media alongside

11:56

other aristocrats and wealthy people and

11:59

all of these people.

13:59

it was less about media

14:02

theory, like how to make people see what

14:04

they want to see in you, or what you want them to see

14:07

in you. And it was more in

14:09

making the monarchy seem like it was just like too

14:11

cool to bother with like the regular

14:13

little stuff. It's almost like daylight

14:16

in the magic, that you're letting daylight in by

14:18

even acknowledging that the

14:20

newspapers exist and that people care

14:22

about your personal life. Well, of course, it was actually

14:24

the late queen mother who really

14:26

took that philosophy to heart.

14:29

And I think paved the way for it to become perhaps

14:32

the most important

14:34

motto or saying of the late

14:37

queen's life. It stood her certainly

14:39

in good stead. And while she would read

14:41

the press, I mean, she would read the racing

14:43

post every morning, she'd never paid

14:45

too much attention to the gossipy stories

14:48

in the tabloids. She tended to avoid

14:50

them. And actually, when you look back on her reign, there

14:52

were only a handful of occasions when

14:55

the queen took legal action against the

14:57

papers, accepted

14:59

that good stories, bad stories,

15:02

that media attention

15:03

was just a part of her life. And I

15:06

think she tried to find a way to just have

15:08

as harmonious a relationship as she probably could

15:11

with the British press. She believed

15:13

in a free press and

15:16

she managed that relationship or her advisors

15:19

managed the relationship pretty

15:21

well. I think it's telling that like

15:23

the times that she's only done that legal action

15:25

were times where people really were

15:27

kind of incurring on, it's

15:29

like her employees, it's things

15:32

like her private space that- It

15:34

was being spied on, wasn't it? It was basically being

15:36

spied on, whether that was by the media, by

15:38

photographers.

15:38

It was having that privacy

15:41

that she valued so much, particularly when she

15:43

was on her private estates, that was sacred

15:46

to her. And I think anyone that crossed the line would

15:48

be

15:48

rightfully punished. Yeah, but I think

15:50

it's also about power.

15:53

I think that there is something in there that is important that there

15:55

are certain places where the constitutional

15:57

monarch can't exert any power.

17:35

of

18:00

it being just a newspaper story and therefore

18:02

tomorrow's fish and chip paper, those

18:04

days are well and truly gone.

18:07

Well, and I think the relationship

18:09

just got really contentious.

18:12

That is one of the things that the family

18:14

I think has really had a hard time dealing with.

18:17

And, you know, I think sometimes the Royals focus

18:20

way too much on short term,

18:22

you know, will

18:24

this be forgotten once it's chip paper and

18:27

not quite enough on how, you know,

18:29

when something exists forever

18:31

on the internet, it will come back eventually

18:34

and it's good to at least, you know,

18:36

have your version of the truth out there

18:38

so that you can say like, no,

18:40

this is what happened.

18:42

So how have you kind of seen that change

18:44

happening in your years as a Royal correspondent?

18:47

I think things are changing. And I think that is

18:50

because

18:51

the palace realizes that no

18:53

comment doesn't mean that story is going to go away.

18:55

It doesn't mean that story is going to be stamped out. You know,

18:57

if the journalist has more than one source on

18:59

it, it is very sure on that story

19:02

with a no comment from the palace, it's likely

19:04

to run with that no comment included somewhere

19:07

usually at the very end of the

19:09

story. So I'm thinking of a recent story in the mirror

19:12

about the coronation. It was a front

19:14

page story about how rehearsals

19:16

have run behind times, that

19:19

everyone is really quite ill prepared that

19:21

the king of the queen haven't even done a proper dress

19:23

rehearsal at the Abbey. And basically, the

19:25

coronation is going to be a bit of a

19:27

mess because no one is actually really fully

19:30

prepared. And this was a

19:32

front page story and spread across

19:34

several pages of the paper inside. And

19:36

really at the bottom of the story is a palace

19:39

denial. So I think we are seeing perhaps

19:41

more denials coming out of the palace and we're

19:43

certainly seeing the royals answering back

19:46

themselves and taking matters into

19:48

their own hands. And I'm thinking of William and

19:50

I'm thinking of various occasions where

19:53

he has stood up and spoken

19:55

out last year after Lord Dyson's

19:57

report into the panorama interview with the

20:00

Bashir and Diana and the

20:02

wrongdoings that had taken place. But

20:04

William stood outside of Kensington Palace

20:07

and denounced the BBC, the

20:09

illicit practices that had taken part.

20:12

Let's just listen to a clip of what he

20:14

said.

20:16

I would like to thank Lord Dyson and his team for the

20:18

report. It is welcome

20:20

that the BBC accepts Lord Dyson's findings in

20:22

full, which are extremely concerning.

20:25

That BBC employees lied and

20:28

used fake documents to obtain the interview

20:30

with my mother, made lurid

20:32

and false claims about the Royal Family, which

20:34

played on her fears and fuelled paranoia, displayed

20:38

woeful incompetence when investigating

20:40

complaints and concerns about the programme.

20:44

Public service broadcasting and a free press

20:47

have never been more important. These

20:49

failings, identified by investigative

20:51

journalists, not only let my mother

20:53

down and my family down, they

20:56

let the public down too.

20:58

It was William who wanted to give that impromptu

21:00

press conference. And it's not the only time

21:03

that he's sort of taken on the

21:05

press or an institution and made a

21:07

point. He also addressed

21:09

the criticism that he and Kate received during

21:11

their 2022 tour to the Caribbean.

21:15

He issued a statement saying that he knew that this tour

21:17

had brought into even sharper focus

21:20

the questions about the past and the future of the Commonwealth.

21:22

He's evolved with pride and respect

21:25

in your decisions about your future. Relationships

21:29

evolve,

21:30

friendship endures. He

21:34

wasn't

21:34

shying away from it. He wasn't

21:36

going to not make a comment about

21:38

the criticism that he'd received in

21:41

the press, in the local newspapers and

21:43

over some of those perhaps ill-advised

21:46

photo opportunities. No comment simply

21:48

wasn't going to wash for William. He wanted

21:51

to make a comment. He wanted to tackle it head on.

21:53

And one of the most notable moments

21:55

where William has spoken out in maybe an

21:57

unexpected way but because he felt like it was the thing he needed

21:59

to do.

21:59

was back in March of 2021 when there

22:02

was a suggestion that

22:04

the royal family was racist, and he was the first

22:06

to hit back in a very vocal way. He

22:08

said, we are very much not a racist family. Yes,

22:11

we'll be touching on that a little bit later on, but we'll

22:13

be right back after this short break.

22:21

There is no need for the outside world because

22:24

we are removed from it and

22:26

apart from it and in our own universe.

22:30

On the new podcast, The Turning, Room of

22:32

Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer

22:34

of American ballet and the culture

22:37

formed by its most influential figure, George

22:39

Balanchine. There are not very many

22:42

of us that actually grew up with Balanchine.

22:44

It was like I grew up with Mozart. He

22:46

could do no wrong. Like, he was a god.

22:49

But what was the cost for the dancers who brought these

22:51

ballets to life? Were the lines between

22:53

the professional and the personal were hazy

22:56

and often crossed? He used to say, what

22:58

are you looking at, dear? You can't

23:00

see you, only I can

23:02

see you. Most people in the ballet

23:04

world are more interested in their

23:07

experience of watching it than in

23:09

a dancer's experience of executing it.

23:13

Listen to The Turning, Room of Mirrors on

23:15

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

23:17

wherever you get your podcasts.

23:25

When you consider the many stories written

23:27

about them and their private lives, it's

23:30

actually very rare for the royals

23:32

to pursue the media through the courts. But

23:35

Prince Harry has been the anomaly.

23:37

And

23:37

I'm not in this for self-preservation.

23:40

I'm in this to be able to say, draw a line, enough.

23:43

We can all move on and get on

23:45

with our lives. But if this continues,

23:48

then I'm naturally deeply

23:51

concerned that what has happened to us will

23:53

happen to someone else. In fact, he's

23:55

taken on the media with numerous

23:58

lawsuits. The Sussexes...

23:59

have successfully sued numerous paparazzis

24:02

and agencies for invading their and their children's

24:05

privacy. The Duchess of Sussex recently

24:07

won a copyright case after the mail on

24:09

Sunday published excerpts of a private

24:11

letter to her father. And Harry, we

24:14

know, has been in the High Court recently in an

24:16

attempt to sue associated newspapers

24:18

over alleged phone hacking. The newspaper

24:21

group deny carrying out any illegal

24:23

practices.

24:25

Harry is really attacking on every

24:27

front. And you also realize that he's

24:29

allying himself with the people in the organizations

24:32

who feel like the aftermath

24:34

of the Levinson report and the phone hacking

24:36

scandal about a decade ago just didn't

24:39

cause enough positive change in Britain's

24:41

news media. So he's coming

24:43

at it from just a very different ideological

24:45

place than his family is. And

24:48

I think it's also telling that he is starting to

24:50

do somewhat similar work in the US. He

24:52

mentioned paparazzis. Some of those are based in the US.

24:54

But, also, he has joined a campaign

24:57

against racist hate speech on social media

24:59

with the group Color of Change. And

25:01

he even joined a research commission on

25:03

misinformation with the Aspen Institute,

25:06

which is this, you know, like think tank in the US.

25:08

He's really trying on many

25:11

different fronts to express that frustration

25:14

with the news media.

25:15

Yes. And he certainly wants to eradicate

25:18

any misinformation or false news,

25:20

but there is an irony in all of this. Harry

25:22

hates the media. Yet he continues

25:25

to fuel the tabloids with stories.

25:28

Just look at Spare and actually

25:30

going back to Oprah and what we were talking

25:33

about earlier, Erin, arguably

25:35

Harry and Meghan in that interview

25:37

put the Royal Family at the center of one of

25:39

the most damaging stories, certainly that I can

25:41

remember. Hold up. There are

25:43

several conversations about that. There's

25:45

a conversation with

25:48

you. With Harry. About

25:52

how dark your baby is going to be. Potentially

25:55

and what that would mean or look like. That

25:58

allegation put the Royal Family

25:59

at the center of a terrible racist

26:02

row, the repercussions of which I think are still

26:04

being felt. Some might say that Harry,

26:07

who campaigns for accurate information in the media,

26:09

was himself

26:10

guilty of spreading misinformation. He

26:13

now claims that he and Meghan were not accusing

26:16

the Royal Family of racism, but

26:18

unconscious bias. Hmm,

26:20

Erin, how do you view that one? Erin O'Hara

26:22

Well, I think it's really funny when the tabloids

26:25

the next day were going with who's the royal

26:27

racist, which always has icked

26:29

me out so much. I actually wound up

26:31

writing even the next day, like, I

26:33

don't think that they said there was a racist

26:35

royal. I think they said that, you know, somebody

26:38

said an insensitive comment about Meghan

26:40

behind her back, which made her feel

26:42

like she was being attacked. As

26:44

a person of color myself, you know, I think that there are

26:47

a lot of different layers to this. And I feel like one

26:49

of the problems sometimes in talking about this

26:51

in Britain is that there is a tendency

26:54

to kind of like jump to, okay, so who's the

26:56

racist? What's the racist? I think it

26:58

was definitely not a great idea

27:00

of Meghan and Harry to like let that narrative

27:03

go for longer. You know, I think two years

27:05

later is like a little bit late to just

27:07

clarifying what you say. Erin O'Hara

27:09

Just a little bit late. They had ample opportunity

27:12

to correct it when that story took on a life

27:14

of its own. Meghan O'Hara What do you correct? I

27:16

mean, I think you can't say like, maybe you come out and say, like,

27:19

oh, the tabloid gloss on

27:21

a very specific thing that I said that I don't want to

27:23

say more about because then you're going to ask me more questions about

27:25

who said it. I don't know what they could have done. But

27:27

but still, you know, something should have happened. What

27:30

I have been trying to understand more is like, why

27:33

did the royals let

27:36

the media

27:37

set their own agenda in that moment?

27:40

I don't know. I think that's really difficult. I think they

27:42

did what they could do. I mean, it was Harry and Meghan

27:44

that have made this allegation. The royal

27:47

family was then put in a position where it had to defend itself,

27:49

which it did. Did it have

27:51

to defend itself? Well, they didn't. They tried

27:54

to they tried to put an end to the narrative with

27:56

that very short, but succinct statement

27:58

from the Queen. And then when we William was asked if

28:01

the royal family were a racist family, he

28:03

responded and tackled that head on.

28:05

Can you just let me know, is the royal family a

28:07

racist family, sir? Very

28:09

much not racist, sir. I think the hope

28:11

in doing that was that they would bring an end to

28:14

that narrative. The people who really could have

28:16

brought an end to it were Harry and Meghan, who

28:18

could have and should have come in and said, actually,

28:20

this has been misinterpreted and this is what

28:23

they meant, which is what they said, as you pointed out,

28:25

two years later to Tom Bradley. I think that this

28:27

kind of goes back to so many of our

28:29

big

28:31

frustrations when we're talking about

28:33

the relationship with the royals and the media is

28:36

because we know a lot about what happens, but

28:38

we rarely hear it from them specifically.

28:41

And I think that that's why Meghan and Harry wanted

28:43

to actually get on the record and say that.

28:46

Well, they've certainly taken

28:48

their opportunity to tell their

28:50

side of the story, both in their Netflix docuseries,

28:52

and of course in Spare, where

28:55

Harry was jaw-droppingly

28:57

honest. And we will have to wait and

28:59

see. Again, the irony

29:01

being that he gave the media an absolute

29:04

field day. I mean, they filled their boots with those

29:07

jaw-dropping revelations, right? He

29:09

broke a breach of trust with his family in

29:12

doing that book, which I'm not sure he'll

29:14

ever recover. That said, the king

29:16

has done the magnanimous thing. He has made

29:18

sure that his youngest son will be there at

29:21

his coronation. We know that Harry's going to be

29:23

there. It'll be a fleeting visit. He'll be in

29:25

and out. And he won't be joined by the Duchess because

29:27

of course it's Archie's fourth birthday.

29:29

So we will have attendance

29:32

by Prince Harry, but I think Blinken you'll miss him

29:34

because he's not going to be around for too long.

29:37

We talked a bit earlier about the press coverage

29:39

in the run-up to the coronation, but how

29:41

do you think the palace has handled their whole

29:44

public relations strategy over the last few months?

29:47

Well, I think we're seeing the palace do what it does

29:49

best, which is to put the world's attention

29:51

on a very important event. And

29:53

they've been excellent at drip feeding

29:56

the media, bits of information ahead

29:58

of the coronation in order to...

29:59

get maximum coverage because that is

30:02

what they want. There have been stories about

30:04

the coach, the golden coach that's going to

30:06

be used, the music that's going to be played, and the abbey,

30:08

the ethically sourced anointing

30:11

oil, and fascinatingly, of course,

30:13

who's been invited and who hasn't.

30:16

Many peers and many dukes and

30:18

duchesses and lords and ladies are not going to be

30:20

going to this scaled back

30:22

coronation, all part of the cost-cutting

30:25

and mindful of a cost-of-living crisis.

30:27

But I was surprised to see that Joe

30:29

Biden

30:29

won't be going. We know the First Lady will be there

30:32

to represent him, but has that

30:34

gone down in the States that he's not going to be there? Obviously,

30:36

he had a very successful trip to Ireland. Why

30:38

is he not coming back? He loves Britain so much.

30:41

You know, we're talking on the day that he announced that he's

30:43

running for reelection. And

30:46

there are a lot of really big, important

30:48

things that are happening in Congress over the next few

30:50

months. It seems kind of not

30:53

the right look to take days out of governing

30:55

for a religious

30:58

ceremony across the Atlantic. So I think that

31:00

really is kind of where that's coming

31:03

from. Well, that hasn't put off President

31:06

Emmanuel Macron of France, who will be coming

31:08

over, Ursula von der Loehn, the president

31:10

of the EU Commission, will also be

31:12

here. And of course, we can expect

31:14

a big turnout from foreign

31:17

royals from around the world. Prince Albert of Monaco

31:19

and his wife, Princess Charlene, King

31:21

Felipe and Queen Leticia of Spain, the

31:23

King and Queen of Norway, King Felipe

31:26

and Queen Mathilde of Belgium, they will all be

31:28

there. Many of whom are Charles

31:29

distant cousins, yes. Many

31:32

of whom are Charles's distant cousins. So everything

31:34

that you would expect, even the King of Tonga

31:37

is coming. And I think that sort of royal

31:40

presence is really going to make it

31:42

an occasion befitting

31:44

of something of this status.

31:47

This is the coronation of the

31:49

King. And I do wonder if perhaps

31:52

some of those who are thinking about not tuning

31:55

in, not wanting to wake up over on the

31:57

other side of the Atlantic in the middle of the night to tune in and

31:59

watch this.

34:00

What did you think of it? What kind of king will Charles be?

34:03

Record a voice memo on your mobile

34:05

and email it to dynastyatvanitiefair.com. And

34:09

we might include your voice in the next episode.

34:13

This has been special coverage from

34:15

Vanity Fair's Dynasty. I'm Katie Nicholl. And

34:18

I'm Erin Vanderhoof. Dynasty

34:20

is produced by Vanity Fair and Conde Nast Entertainment.

34:23

This episode was produced by Will Coley.

34:26

Stephen Valentino is our executive producer. We

34:29

had engineering assistants from Jake Loomis and Bob Mallory. The

34:32

theme song was composed by Wooly Music. Dynasty

34:35

was conceived by Vanity Fair executive editor

34:37

Claire Howarth. Claire and Katie

34:40

Rich are our staff editorial consultants. You

34:42

can

34:43

listen to all the previous episodes of Dynasty wherever

34:45

you get your podcasts and also online

34:48

at vf.com forward slash

34:50

dynasty. Thanks so much

34:52

for listening. I'm going to say something

34:54

that might get some of my, you know, countrymen a

34:56

little upset, but long live the king.

35:17

There is no need for the outside world because

35:19

we are removed from it and

35:22

apart from it and in our own universe.

35:25

On the new podcast, The Turning, Room

35:28

of Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer

35:30

of American ballet and the culture

35:32

formed by its most influential figure, George

35:35

Balanchine. There are not very many

35:37

of us that actually grew up with Balanchine.

35:40

It was like I grew up with Mozart. He

35:42

could do no wrong. Like he was a god.

35:45

But what was the cost for the dancers who brought these

35:47

ballets to life? Where the lines between

35:49

the professional and the personal were hazy

35:51

and often crossed. He used to say, what

35:54

are you looking at, dear? You

35:55

can't see you. Only I can see

35:57

you. Most people in the back.

35:59

I'm more interested in

36:02

their experience of watching

36:04

it than in a dancer's experience of executing

36:06

it.