0:01

It's that time again. Time to

0:03

make the donuts? What the hell? You

0:06

have to have grown up in the 80s to get that one. Nah,

0:09

it's time for another Catch a

0:11

Kite episode. In case you're not

0:13

familiar, Catch a Kite is a

0:15

Q&A episode in which listeners ask

0:17

questions about life in prison and

0:19

get answers from incarcerated folks. This

0:22

season, we'll be switching things up. Viewers

0:24

might not know that people inside many

0:27

U.S. prisons can now hear ear hustle

0:29

on prison tablets, kinda like a bulky

0:32

iPad. Yeah, but a lot less fancy. So

0:35

here's how it's gonna work. We're

0:37

asking you, our listeners, to send

0:39

us audio questions about life inside

0:41

prison. We'll get those questions

0:44

answered by incarcerated people around the country

0:46

who listen to ear hustle on their

0:48

tablets. You know, we've never

0:50

taken listener questions to prisons outside

0:52

California. So this is a first

0:54

for us. Indeed. To

0:57

submit your question, leave us a voicemail at 510-906-1569 or

0:59

send a voice memo to info at

1:06

earhustlesq.com. Include

1:08

your name and where you're calling from, and

1:10

please keep your questions to under 30 seconds.

1:13

Get your questions to us by March 27. That

1:16

number one more time is 510-906-1569 or

1:18

send a voice memo to info at

1:21

earhustlesq.com. This

1:30

episode is brought to you by Progressive

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situations. Prices vary based on how

2:07

you buy. I

2:24

want to see the new horizons and explore the

2:27

world around me. Smell

2:29

a puppy, hug a horse, listen

2:32

to birds sing, go to the zoo,

2:36

bake loaves of bread, lay

2:38

in a meadow, pick

2:41

a flower and watch it. Smell

2:43

it. Grow

2:45

a tree, have a plant in dirt.

2:50

Have cases of chewing gum. Go

2:54

to a used bookstore, buy another

2:56

camera and make postcards again. Go

3:00

to a fancy place to eat. I

3:04

like to go to a ghost town. Walk

3:07

in it, sit down and take it all in.

3:11

Drink out of a real glass. Sleep

3:14

in the raw, be in the raw

3:16

for hours. Go

3:18

to a pound. Buy

3:21

some clothes just for me. Have

3:27

an ice box. Pick

3:29

a long bath for hours. I

3:33

want to throw a rock across the lake. Draw

3:36

some patterns. Do

3:39

blankets out of yarn again. Make

3:42

a plant hanger from ceiling to floor. Have

3:44

a real door with no windows

3:46

in it. Have

3:50

a tall mirror. Have

3:52

a cookie jar again. Write

3:55

my own songs. Go

3:57

to a tanning place. Go

3:59

to a house. a store walk

4:02

around and smell all the good smells go

4:06

to a pet store a toy store go

4:10

swimming in a lake i

4:14

want to smell a puppy i want to go

4:16

run on a beach and climb a tree climb

4:20

a mountain stand under a

4:22

waterfall lay on

4:24

a flat rock and sunbathe see

4:28

a few dear friends live

4:30

in peace touch

4:32

a rabbit buy a

4:34

dog have a real christmas

4:36

tree hold money in

4:39

my hand have keys have

4:41

the life of my own go

4:44

to the highest mountain and yell my head off build

4:48

a log home have fruit

4:50

trees nut trees go

4:52

fishing and learn how to work a cell

4:54

phone let's

5:04

tell people who this is and what

5:06

we're doing here okay so this

5:08

is sky we met her recently

5:10

at the california institution for women

5:13

and she's reading a poem she wrote

5:15

so erlone i'm going to ask you how

5:18

would you describe sky from my memory

5:20

she's very tall and she got

5:22

this long flowing silver hair exactly

5:24

and it's kind of wild and

5:27

beautiful and when she came to

5:29

the interview she pulled out this

5:31

poem she'd written this long type

5:34

written document yep and sometime

5:36

when someone pulls out a poem they've

5:38

written you'd be like totally

5:43

but this time we just decided to

5:45

see where it was going to go i'm

5:47

erlone woods i'm nigel pore

5:49

and this is ear hustle from

5:52

prx's radiotopia I

6:03

want to watch sunset and the

6:05

sunrise. Have

6:07

more than two pairs of shoes and

6:10

go to a fancy hotel for a weekend.

6:14

Wear silk clothes, girl thinks. Grow

6:18

blackberries, listen to the whales sing.

6:22

Have geese again, good watchdogs. Go

6:26

to the racetrack, make quilts

6:29

again, go skydiving. Make

6:33

cherry pies, apple pies,

6:35

peach pies. Make

6:37

wind chimes again. Walk

6:40

in the snow, ride a horse

6:42

in it too. I

6:44

want to do some fishing, dive off

6:46

a cliff again. Have

6:49

the woods stove, go

6:51

hiking, lay in a field and

6:53

watch the clouds. Kiss

6:55

a baby calf, kiss a cow.

6:59

Watch stars in the moonlight sky. Pet

7:03

elephants have a garden, walnut

7:05

trees and a fireplace. So

7:14

do you remember the first time we saw Sky? Yes

7:17

I do. It

7:19

was when we was visiting CIW

7:22

and we were sitting out in a

7:24

little garden behind the housing unit doing

7:26

an interview with somebody and

7:29

from what I remember she walked by and she

7:32

was pushing maybe a cart

7:35

or a wheelbarrow and she

7:38

was gardening. I think that's what I remember. And

7:40

she had this almost regal quality about

7:42

her and I don't think she had

7:44

time for anything or anyone outside of

7:47

her own world. She was

7:49

very intriguing. I mean I think we both was

7:51

curious to get to know her. Oh I was

7:53

definitely eyeballing her. So the

7:55

next time we were down at CIW we got

7:57

a chance to talk to her. We

8:00

sat down at a picnic table in the same garden

8:02

where we first saw her. Turns

8:04

out, Sky has been in prison for

8:06

37 years. Yeah,

8:08

I mean she's a really long time resident at

8:11

CIW. Can I call her an OG? For

8:13

show. So if

8:15

you had to describe yourself, how would you describe

8:17

who you are? What's

8:20

my purpose? No, just like your

8:22

personality. I'm

8:26

creative. I

8:28

don't smoke and I don't drink. I'm

8:31

easy going until you

8:35

stick on my toes and

8:37

then I step back. Yeah. So

8:40

how would you describe what

8:43

CIW is to you? Is it a home?

8:45

Is it a place you're here for a

8:47

while? Well, I have a lot of

8:50

my family around me that I grew up with here.

8:54

When you say family, are those people you've known for a

8:56

really long time here? Yeah. So

8:59

do you consider this home? Yes.

9:04

And what makes it home? Look at my

9:06

backyard. I know. I

9:08

wonder, when we're sitting out here waiting for you, I was like,

9:10

this is actually quite beautiful. Yes. We

9:13

make it that way. We have plants

9:15

that other places don't have plants. We

9:18

have trees that haven't been taken down. We

9:21

have raccoons that like to climb the roof

9:24

and they come and they get into the trees and

9:26

I see them from my window because my window is

9:28

right over there. What are

9:30

the benefits for you staying in here? I'm

9:34

safe. I

9:36

have three meals a day. So

9:41

if you had the opportunity to

9:43

leave with you, where

9:45

would I go? Every

9:50

now and then, we meet someone like

9:53

Skye who has been in prison so

9:55

long, they're no longer trying to go

9:57

home because prison is home. Yeah.

10:00

But that's why that poem of hers

10:02

that we were hearing earlier is so

10:04

perplexing and intriguing to me because even

10:06

though she seems at home in prison,

10:09

that poem is so incredibly full of

10:11

detail about what she misses outside. Right.

10:16

I want to go to ballparks and

10:18

watch baseball and football. I

10:21

want to go to a graveyard. I

10:24

want to watch the waves on the beach. Open

10:28

a craft store. Talk to

10:30

an operator. Say goodbye to

10:32

the past. Pet

10:35

baby critters and have clothes that

10:37

fit me. I

10:43

want to take a trip back to

10:45

my birthplace in Alaska. Go

10:49

to a lighthouse. Drive. One second.

10:59

Go to a lighthouse and

11:01

drive on Route 66. Learn

11:05

to fly a plane. Have

11:08

turquoise rings again. Go visit

11:10

a few friends and have stickers. Learn

11:14

the Scottish language. Drink

11:17

out of a grass mug. Go ride

11:19

a train and sleep in it too. Be

11:24

able to have a bed that

11:26

is long enough to fit my long legs. Make

11:30

cakes of all sizes. Go

11:35

to a rodeo and watch the steers and

11:37

broncos. Ride a horse

11:39

in the snow. Have a tent. Go

11:43

camping. Go to

11:45

a donut shop and enjoy the smells. Eat

11:50

with utensils that are not plastic.

11:55

I want to wear pantyhose. The

11:57

colours of black, yellow, pink.

12:00

sky blue, green, soft purples

12:04

Buy a bike and ride around and see

12:06

the sights Go to a museum,

12:09

wear some cowboy boots See

12:11

all four seasons, have my

12:13

hair done in a salon Pentatyber,

12:18

raise livestock again, have chickens and

12:20

eggs of many colors Sail

12:23

on the Gulf, go to

12:25

an airport and watch the planes come and go

12:29

Take a vacation, chop wood, cook on

12:31

open fire Build

12:34

a tree house, eat

12:37

candy cane, ice cream on a cone Read

12:40

a book on tape for the blind Share

12:43

my wisdom with others Have

12:47

a teepee, go to the fair,

12:49

train dogs, dress

12:51

up for Halloween Sell

12:54

artwork, go to a video

12:56

store, take a

12:59

wagon train adventure Watch

13:03

air balloons fly into the

13:06

sky Visit

13:08

my mom's grave, hug

13:11

my brothers and sisters and forgive

13:13

them all And

13:16

above all, stay free I

13:22

have been down 37 years If

13:24

I can't do it now, I can do

13:27

them in my dreams Bye

13:29

Whispering Sky So

13:36

what are some of the images that stand out

13:38

to you when you're listening to the poem? There's

13:40

a few of them, but the two that

13:43

come to mind is Chopwood and Pentatyber What

13:46

about that idea of the wagon train adventure? Is

13:50

that like one of them back in the days? Exactly,

13:53

I just see her wearing a little petticoat or something

13:55

And then the poem is

13:57

so alive with imagery and things that

13:59

are exciting existing outside of the walls. But

14:02

again, for Sky, you know, prisons are

14:04

home now and she says she's

14:06

okay with that. Most

14:09

people you meet in prison talk about just how they want to get

14:11

out, they just want to be out. And it

14:13

seems like there maybe is something almost

14:15

shameful about not being on that bandwagon

14:17

that this is the worst place. Do

14:20

you? I never confronted that or? No,

14:22

it doesn't bother me. I watch my

14:25

friends leave, but they're there

14:27

when I need them. All

14:30

of us lifers that are here depend

14:33

on each other. Do

14:36

you think that

14:39

people that are in your situation are just kind

14:41

of tossed away? Because there's not

14:43

a real safety net on family? Our family is already

14:45

here. Yeah. You're

14:48

not getting that little tiny piece

14:50

there that the family is already

14:52

here. So you don't feel lonely

14:54

or? No,

14:57

I write poems and stuff. You're

15:00

not getting that. You're not getting that. You're

15:02

not getting that. You're not getting

15:04

that. You're not getting that. So I feel

15:07

very comfortable where I am because I've made it

15:09

that way. So

15:12

do you think you'll spend the rest of your life here? Yes.

15:19

So, curious, outside of these walls,

15:22

do you have thoughts of like

15:25

walking on the beach? I

15:28

see the beach every time I turn on the TV

15:30

for certain channels. You know what

15:32

I mean? Yeah, I used to do that. Yeah,

15:36

I used to swim, dive. I

15:39

play sports here. Bellyball,

15:43

baseball, tennis, handball. Still,

15:47

you still play handball to this day? Mm-hmm. Still

15:49

good at it. Mm-hmm. Still hitting kill

15:52

shots. You

15:54

know what the ball of ball was? My mother's head. Mm.

15:58

Anger? Any anger

16:01

that you how to put it on a ball. Flam.

16:05

Ball's at the gym. That's. An ideal he's lazy with

16:07

own it. Never

16:09

disable. Ssssss

16:11

for sure. So

16:15

it went next year. Like sitting here. What

16:18

are the thing says? I bring you joy

16:20

and peace. Quietness. I

16:28

have a thing that I put on paper

16:30

everything that I do all my palm said

16:32

I do right now it's only me and

16:35

I like as. I

16:37

could read it over and over there and

16:39

I can add to it is time. Because

16:42

there's other things that has happened that I would

16:44

like to do or I'd like to see. I

16:46

see things and he didn't want to do have

16:49

put it down on paper. But

16:51

I don't ever think of any get out. So.

16:55

You you found a way

16:57

to satisfy his needs in

17:00

a way. That works for Sky. Think

17:05

What she's saying here is that the

17:07

poem isn't static, it's this a living

17:09

document of all the things she imagines

17:12

doing as she's a matching them. Mean.

17:15

for her, it is totally

17:17

We'll mail addresses like she's

17:19

literally doing this stuff. Do

17:26

you think that you have a more active imagination

17:28

than most people? I

17:32

want to just disappear from everybody I sit

17:34

down or it my bones. So

17:37

is technically the world the to

17:39

escape to. Which

17:42

is your writing which is insides are

17:44

here which is a surcharge. So your

17:47

secret place. I.

17:50

Wonder if escape is the right

17:52

word? because escape suggests that you

17:55

on are leaving yourself. Yeah, I

17:57

said that. Say it or not,

18:00

It myself. I.

18:02

Enjoy what I do. Everything

18:05

in here I enjoy. What?

18:10

I feel your says. You don't need

18:12

to escape, know it's very present and we'll

18:14

for you right? And that's. Most.

18:16

People. Don't. Have that

18:19

level. Of. Creativity.

18:21

Submit to create a world for themselves

18:23

and a difficult place and really exist

18:25

in it And. It's.

18:33

They were so stuck on what felt like a

18:35

contradiction about you saying he didn't want to get

18:37

out of prison, that you're okay Been here and

18:39

then these poems that are just like bursting. With

18:42

beautiful things to do

18:44

outside. And we

18:46

run to see that as a

18:49

contradiction in you see something different.

18:51

Some people cry, they realize just

18:54

how much is nice seen. added

18:56

arrives with everything that they haven't

18:58

done or they wanted to do.

19:05

Okay so then that uses maybe think. I.

19:09

Cry because that list is so full

19:11

of detail and it makes you think

19:14

man I want to get all the

19:16

stuff done that such like an expansive

19:18

list it doesn't make you cry. Now.

19:21

So yeah, I think that's what's hard for

19:24

us to get our minds around that we

19:26

feel emotional about that. But for you, we're.

19:28

Experiencing it cause you're writing and and

19:30

thinking about it and I guess living

19:32

it somehow. It's

19:35

kind of crazy the way you guys think in a

19:38

way. I think are totally

19:40

it's to everybody's has different

19:42

thinking. So

19:48

scale and when you see something to about

19:51

this i'm an i particular want you to

19:53

respond by on what I used to will

19:55

I think this is really beautiful and I

19:57

love the list is so comprehensive. And

20:00

it's such a beautiful self portrait.

20:02

but I also love that to

20:04

me in a little bit that

20:07

I know you. it's this wonderful

20:09

contradictions you saying that you don't

20:11

want to be out there that

20:13

then been able to write this

20:15

an incredibly full visual express for

20:17

you to want to do out

20:20

there and I can live with

20:22

that contradiction in you. And I

20:24

think that silly beautiful. Of

20:41

us to. Support.

20:50

For ear hustle comes from Oh Do If

20:52

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20:55

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deal with modern management

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made simple. Or

21:34

mind, it's unusual for us to

21:36

spend an entire episode and one

21:39

person's writing, but Skies Com was

21:41

so concrete and specific. Yeah,

21:43

I think the poem is how she

21:45

found a way to survive alone. Prison

21:47

term. Like it's a way to do

21:50

things in her mind as he can

21:52

do in prison. In that

21:54

one poem felt like a complete story.

21:56

You don't? I mean. But. It

21:58

turns out she had another. Here

22:03

are the things that I've been able to do inside.

22:10

I've held newborn critters and birds too.

22:12

I've moved to a calmer unit. I'm

22:15

able to lie on the grass and

22:17

watch. The clouds take shape. I've

22:21

had ice cream on a cone. I've

22:24

had a donut or two. I've

22:26

held and kissed baby and smelled

22:29

baby puppies. I've

22:33

eaten large, soft, warm pretzel.

22:36

I've watched the stars in the

22:38

moonlight sky. I've

22:41

hugged my best friend. I've

22:44

made wind chimes again. I've

22:50

been cross stitching. I've

22:54

made apple pies. I've

22:57

held and kissed a kitten. I've

22:59

made a plant, hanger from

23:01

ceiling to floor. I

23:04

drank out of a glass mug. I've

23:06

worked in a garden. I've

23:09

watched the planes fly overhead. I've

23:12

drawn some animals for a video. I've

23:18

made quilts again. I've planted

23:20

a tree. I now

23:22

have clothes that fit me. I've

23:25

made all kinds of cheesecakes. I've

23:30

eaten a banana split ice cream. I've

23:34

listened to wells on tape. I

23:36

have a cookie journal. I've

23:39

held the baby bunny in my arms and kissed it

23:41

too. I

23:44

watched the sunset. I've continued to

23:47

crochet blankets. I still train

23:49

dogs of all sizes. I

23:52

make more puzzles. I've

23:54

allowed myself to have three pairs of shoes. I've

23:58

grown a flower or two. I've

24:00

helped move several of my friends. I've

24:04

made candy again. I've watched the

24:06

sun rise. I've

24:10

been dying most with skin cancer.

24:13

And in spite of it all, I

24:16

still have peace of mind. I

24:18

whisper in skies. Banana's

24:23

playing. That'll be on

24:25

my list, too. Definitely. And

24:28

I feel like she can

24:30

just keep adding to this. Like, most of

24:32

these poems, they're going to keep evolving.

24:35

Right. Like a record

24:37

of her life, both real and imagined. Nudge,

24:53

how's that PO box looking? Okay, so

24:55

since Ear Hustle started, we've kept a

24:57

PO box for old-fashioned snail mail letters

25:00

sent to us by listeners. And when we

25:02

started, 95% of

25:05

the letters we got were from people

25:08

outside of the walls. But recently, that's

25:10

flipped. Yeah, these days, almost all

25:12

the letters we get come

25:14

from people in prison. I

25:17

guess they're finding out about us on

25:19

their new prison tablets that carry Ear

25:21

Hustle. So we've got a lot

25:23

of new listeners in prison, and some of them are

25:25

starting to reach out to us. So once

25:27

a month, our team gets together and we read the

25:29

letters. And recently, we got a

25:31

letter from a guy who goes by Rooster,

25:33

who's incarcerated at Maury Correctional Facility in

25:36

North Carolina. Okay, hold on. I'm going

25:38

to get this letter. Okay,

25:42

I'm going to read it. Rooster

25:44

says, I'm part of a three-man

25:46

vent line conversation. Every

25:49

day, myself, aka Rooster, and my

25:51

two fellow Ear Hustlers get on

25:53

our vents after lockdown and discuss

25:56

our favorite episodes and stories. We

25:59

call it our... post game show. So

26:01

here's a shout out to Rooster and

26:03

his friends Chulo and Ice Man talking

26:05

to each other through the air vents

26:07

after lockdown. Amazing. I

26:09

love picturing this. Thanks so much

26:11

for writing to us. Indeed.

26:21

Season 13. Lucky 13. We've

26:23

got some cool shit coming

26:26

up this season including our

26:28

first mystery episode. Okay, I

26:30

gotta explain this a little bit because

26:33

these episodes are mysteries to you

26:35

and me. You are gonna do

26:37

an episode that I don't know anything about and I'm gonna

26:39

do an episode you don't know anything about and then

26:42

we're gonna introduce them to each other for the

26:44

first time and record. I'm super excited

26:46

about it. You know the difference between us? What? Yours

26:50

is already done. Not

26:53

done, but I've been working on it. We're

26:58

also making a trip to a really special

27:00

place for an episode about dying in prison.

27:02

I know that sounds really heavy, but

27:05

there was a lot of hope there. And

27:08

we got a return of our

27:10

Catch-A-Kite episode and some very intriguing

27:12

stories from women's prisons as well

27:14

as of course our home base

27:16

San Quentin. 13

27:18

is gonna be a good one. Ear Hustle

27:20

is produced by me, Erlon Woods,

27:23

Nigel Poore, Amy Standin,

27:26

Bruce Wallace, and Rasan New

27:28

York-Thomas. Shabnan Sigmund is our

27:31

managing producer. The producing team

27:33

inside San Quentin includes Darell

27:36

Sadiq-Davis, Tony DeTrinidad,

27:38

and Tom Nguyen. The

27:41

inside managing producer is Tony

27:43

DeFoya. Erlon Woods

27:45

sound designs and engineers the

27:47

show with help from Fernando Arruda,

27:49

Harry Colhane, Rashid Cinnamon,

27:52

and Darell Sadiq-Davis. With music

27:54

contributions from me, Erlon Woods,

27:57

Rashid Cinnamon, Darell Sadiq-Davis,

28:00

Davis, Tom Nguyen, Lee

28:02

Jasper, and Antoine Williams.

28:05

Thanks to Warden Andis and Lieutenant Barry

28:07

at San Quentin and Warden Williams and

28:10

the California Institution for Women for their

28:12

support of the show and also

28:14

thanks to this guy here. I

28:17

am Lieutenant Newborg, public information officer at

28:19

the California Institution for Women and I

28:21

approve this episode. This

28:24

episode is made possible by the

28:26

Jestros working to amplify the voices,

28:28

vision, and power of communities

28:30

that are transforming the justice system. For

28:33

more information about this episode, check out

28:35

the show notes on Ear Hustle's

28:37

website, earhustlesq.com. You

28:40

can also find out more about

28:43

the show on Instagram, Facebook, and

28:45

YouTube at EarHustleSQ. YouTube.

28:48

We're back up. Wow, that's exciting. And

28:51

if you want more Ear Hustle, subscribe

28:53

to Ear Hustle Plus. We've

28:55

got bonus episodes and live chats where we

28:58

get to chop it up with listeners about

29:00

the show. And I love these

29:02

Ask Me Anything episodes that we've been doing. They're

29:04

super fun. It's where we hang out and talk

29:06

with our executive producer, Bruce Wallace,

29:08

about behind the scenes stuff and

29:11

answer listeners questions. Erlon, honestly aren't they

29:13

a blast? And that's funny that you

29:15

say that, right? Because the

29:17

listeners have spoken. They want more

29:19

Bruce. I know. He is great on

29:22

the mic. Definitely. Superstar.

29:25

Subscribe at

29:28

earhustlesq.com/plus or in

29:30

the Apple Pie Gas app. And

29:32

don't forget to sign up for our

29:34

newsletter, The Lowdown. Every issue's got extra

29:36

tidbits. Like this week, you can

29:38

see Sky's actual poem that she brought to

29:40

the interview. And you can also

29:42

read about this new long-term project we

29:44

just started working on at a juvenile

29:47

detention center in New York. Yeah,

29:49

we stacking up the miles this year.

29:51

We are and I'm loving it. It

29:53

is always great to be on the

29:55

road together. Subscribe at earhustlesq.com/newsletter. And while

29:58

you're at it, leave us a... view

30:00

on Apple Podcasts. That's a big help

30:02

to the show and we appreciate you

30:04

for it. Ear Hustle is a

30:06

proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a

30:09

network of independent, creator-owned,

30:11

listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio

30:14

with vision at radiotopia.fm.

30:16

I'm Nigel Poore. I'm

30:19

Erlon Woods. Thanks

30:21

for listening. Hey

30:39

there. As you probably know, this

30:41

show is a member of Radiotopia,

30:43

a network of original, creator-owned podcasts.

30:45

What you might not know is

30:47

that we have a monthly newsletter

30:49

called The Citizen, packed with juicy

30:51

details about new content, behind-the-scenes stories,

30:53

and upcoming events. If

30:55

you love our shows, you don't

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want to miss The Citizen. You

31:00

can subscribe by going to radiotopia.fm/citizen.

31:02

Thank you and happy reading.