0:02

Hey listeners, Erlon

0:04

here with a reminder. This is

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it. Time is running out to donate before our

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We also want to say thank you again

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And Nige, I know you love reading

0:19

these comments from our listeners. I adore

0:21

it. So actually, you know what? Should we ask New

0:24

York to read one of them?

0:25

Yep. From Danny. I started

0:27

listening because Ira Glass from This American

0:29

Life recommended that I do. But

0:32

I've stayed because of all that I've learned with each

0:34

episode. Host Erlon and

0:36

Nigel, these two are the real thing.

0:39

Honest and present, with a genuine respect

0:41

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1:05

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1:09

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1:21

Thank you so much.

1:43

Work

1:53

shoes, one pair. B,

1:56

shower thongs, one pair. C,

1:58

sheets. Eats, two. D,

2:02

pillowcase, one. E,

2:06

towels, two. F,

2:09

blankets, two.

2:15

I actually don't know what the uniforms in San Quentin

2:17

are currently. Like what are they?

2:20

I remember it being like a khaki

2:22

type of pants with some

2:25

type of khaki type of shirt, no belts,

2:27

just.

2:28

I thought it was khaki above. I'm talking

2:30

about them little parachute pants. They

2:33

got a black one. They got

2:35

domestic, yeah. That's

2:37

team. That's team. What

2:40

is this street theme? I

2:43

love that there's three people that have three

2:45

different ideas of what people wear in prison.

2:51

So Avery, did we clear that

2:53

up for you? Not at all.

2:56

Oh my God, seriously, Erlon, you

2:58

were in prison for 20 plus years. Right,

3:01

right. And our friend Lonnie Morris,

3:03

who's in his studio, he did like 44 years. Right,

3:06

and I've been going into San Quentin for over 10 years.

3:09

And so describing what guys wear

3:11

inside honest to God should not

3:13

be as complicated. Right. And

3:16

the interesting thing about it when I went off and

3:18

did some research is that I

3:20

assumed that prison uniforms were super

3:22

static. Like I had this idea of what they were

3:24

in my

3:25

mind, but they've

3:27

changed so much over

3:30

time and over history

3:31

to reflect like what we've

3:34

thought prisons should be. Yeah,

3:37

we should probably let our listeners know

3:39

who you are. Okay, okay. And what the heck we're doing

3:41

here? My name's Avery Truffleman. I host a podcast

3:43

on radiotopia about fashion called Articles

3:46

of Interest. And

3:46

can I ask y'all to introduce yourselves? Sure.

3:49

I'm Erlon Woods. I'm the co-host of

3:52

Ear Hustle. Ear Hustle brings you the stories

3:54

of everyday life in prison told by

3:56

those living it and post-incarceration.

3:59

Damn.

3:59

Yeah, amazing. And I'm Nigel Poor.

4:02

I'm the other co-host. And so for this

4:04

episode, we are collaborating to

4:06

explain what they actually wear

4:08

today in prisons in the US and

4:11

how it got that way.

4:18

Ask you to tell me where we are right now. Oh,

4:20

we're at Tanya Banachdar Gallery in New York.

4:23

Yeah, Tanya represents me, yeah. I

4:26

did not expect to start things off in

4:28

a New York gallery. Honestly,

4:30

me neither. But I

4:32

really wanted to reach out to this artist,

4:35

Cheryl Roland. And so I met up with him

4:37

at the fancy gallery in the Meatpacking

4:40

District that represents him. And

4:42

we were surrounded by sculptures by Sarah

4:44

Z and photographs by Uda

4:46

Barth and Gillian Waring, like really big

4:48

deal artists in this gallery.

4:51

Wait a minute, wait a minute. I got to jump in here because

4:53

you're mentioning some of my art heroes here. Yeah. Gillian

4:56

Waring. Amazing. Uda Barth?

4:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a really avant-garde

5:01

conceptual art gallery. OK,

5:04

I cannot wait to hear how you're going to tie this in

5:06

to prison uniforms. It has to do with prison. Yes,

5:09

you'll see. OK. So

5:11

the story starts back when

5:13

Cheryl was in art school. Cheryl was in the middle

5:15

of his two-year MFA program when

5:17

right in the middle of it, he disappeared.

5:21

He was gone for almost a year.

5:24

And none of his classmates knew where

5:26

he had went or what had happened to him. It's like he had

5:28

just been raptured up. And then one day,

5:31

just as quickly as he left, he came back.

5:34

And when he was back at school this time,

5:36

it felt really different. Like he couldn't

5:38

feel comfortable

5:39

there the way he used to. Looking

5:42

at the student body

5:44

and their faces, I think at the time what

5:47

I had really noticed was safety

5:51

of that environment, that students

5:54

possessed in their joy that I didn't have, like

5:57

the joy of just being in it.

5:59

where you're encouraged to learn,

6:02

there's new people. It was just kind of like,

6:04

you know, I don't want to meet and talk to people.

6:06

I don't want to share about myself. You

6:09

know, it was just like the complete polar

6:11

opposite of this environment. And,

6:14

you know, it was just very obvious. And I was

6:16

not necessarily jealous, but just kind of seeing like,

6:18

man, I don't feel safe. I

6:21

don't feel safe in the one

6:23

place that made you feel really

6:26

safe. The last place

6:28

that I had known to feel

6:29

safe. He

6:32

couldn't tell any of the other students, but

6:34

Cheryl had gone away because he

6:36

had been in jail. I was

6:38

wrongfully incarcerated during my

6:41

two-year program there. Served

6:43

a full amount of time, came back into

6:45

the world, and had the

6:48

idea to return to school. So

6:50

like showing up after being taken

6:52

out of it, they had no idea.

6:56

After Cheryl returned to school, he couldn't

6:58

tell anyone where he had been. It was like

7:01

he had this secret. My legal

7:03

counsel was telling me not to tell anybody.

7:06

It was tough, for lack of a better

7:08

word, but it was very tough to do that.

7:11

Eventually, after that first year, Cheryl

7:13

did get his record cleared. And so you can imagine

7:15

it was a huge relief to not carry the secret

7:17

around all the time. And he could finally tell

7:20

everyone where he had disappeared to and what had happened.

7:23

But Cheryl didn't want to reveal it little by little

7:25

in small talk conversations. He

7:27

wanted to tell everyone exactly

7:30

where he had been. And he wanted to do it in a way

7:32

that only an artist could.

7:35

He turned it into his work. It

7:37

became a performance. Cheryl

7:39

decided to live under the rules and

7:41

conditions he had lived under while

7:43

he was in jail.

7:47

So I moved as a student and put under the rules

7:50

of the jail I was housing in Washington, DC. So

7:52

those rules apply to just kind

7:54

of juxtaposing both environments on top of each

7:56

other. So like, what's an example? So like,

7:58

my art department is my house.

7:59

housing unit and my graduate

8:02

studio is like myself. So anytime

8:04

I went to the school library or

8:06

the school gym, I had to report

8:08

straight there. There was no deviating

8:10

from the path. There was no stopping to talk. So

8:12

people would be like, can't Cheryl? And you're like,

8:14

just be like, hey, you got to walk with me. And that inconvenience

8:17

obviously rubbed people's wrong way because out in the

8:19

free world, it's like, why can't you stop and talk?

8:24

And the most overt part of this project,

8:26

the part that made Cheryl really stand out from

8:28

the other art students was that Cheryl

8:31

was always wearing a bright

8:34

orange jumpsuit, which

8:36

attracted attention immediately.

8:39

There was people who ran

8:41

from me. I got cars honking

8:43

at me. I mean, Cheryl wasn't surprised.

8:46

He knew this would get him noticed. He knew

8:48

he had to cover his bases. Before

8:50

I even started this project, we spent

8:53

having introduction meetings to campus

8:55

police and patrolling regional city

8:58

police for my safety. Right?

9:01

This is what I'm about to do. So

9:03

people don't call the police on me. So

9:06

the campus police was like, it needs to say

9:08

art project. I was like, no, that ambiguity

9:11

needs to be there. People have to wrestle

9:13

with what they are seeing, what they are experiencing.

9:17

And Cheryl knew this was powerful, that

9:19

the symbol was so potent so

9:22

immediately that everybody knew what

9:24

this jumpsuit was supposed to mean.

9:27

Even though it was just

9:29

a jumpsuit that happened to be orange.

9:32

It wasn't even a real prison

9:34

jumpsuit. The jumpsuit

9:37

is not real. I got it off Amazon.

9:39

Oh, it's not an actual. No, no,

9:41

no. And that was also kind of like

9:44

the point that

9:46

injecting it into this space caused

9:48

so much of a ruckus and fear that

9:51

there was nothing illegal about me wearing

9:53

this orange jumpsuit. I mean,

9:54

when you bought it on Amazon, was it like prison

9:57

uniform? Like how is it sold? No, it

9:59

was a cover. It came in many different colors. Anybody

10:02

can buy this jumpsuit that I'm wearing, but when I

10:04

wear it in this, I have to let the police

10:06

know. I do believe it's

10:09

because of the color of my skin. Why

10:11

am I a threat?

10:12

You know, I'm just a student like everybody

10:15

else. You know, I just so happen to be wearing

10:17

this it's orange jumpsuit.

10:21

And so everybody around him, everyone on campus,

10:24

knew what Cheryl was getting at just by wearing

10:26

this jumpsuit that happened to be orange. They

10:28

knew this was supposed to be a prison

10:30

outfit,

10:31

even though there is no such

10:34

thing as a prison outfit. There's

10:36

no one prison outfit. Yeah,

10:39

you don't really see orange jumpsuits as San

10:42

Quentin at all. I mean, people wear

10:44

them at intake, but then they

10:46

get assigned to prison blues.

10:48

Which are pretty much like scrubs, like

10:50

you would see in a hospital. Pretty much, yeah. Like

10:53

the blue top and blue bottom and blue jim

10:55

bottom. And it has like a V-neck. Okay, the

10:57

funny thing is I have seen V-necks and

11:00

scoop necks. You

11:03

don't get to choose presumably. I don't even get to choose. Maybe

11:05

a crew neck scoop might be making it too fancy. Maybe

11:08

it's like a crew neck. But these are two

11:10

pieces. They're not a jumpsuit. Exactly, two pieces

11:12

for sure. And I've heard of places where, you

11:15

know, inmates wear khaki. It depends

11:17

on if it's a federal prison or state prison.

11:19

If it's a private prison, obviously, you know, if

11:21

it's a women's prison or a men's prison.

11:22

There are a lot of different factors

11:25

that determine what the uniform is in

11:27

any given facility. But

11:29

the biggest factor is probably

11:31

just what's cheap and available from

11:34

the prison catalog. Okay,

11:36

well we need 200 quantity of pants and

11:41

three different size parameters. Okay,

11:43

here's the cheapest option. That's like what I imagine

11:46

the Headspace is for the person that is ordering

11:48

for their facility.

11:51

That is Emily Rae Pelerin. She is a writer

11:53

and a researcher. And for her thesis, she

11:55

studied prison uniforms. And she was the

11:57

one who showed me the

11:58

Bob Barker. catalog.

12:01

It's like lands end, you know, they're like

12:03

shipping them out, like it lands

12:05

on the desk of the supervisor

12:08

flipping through it.

12:11

Avery, can I hop in here with a question? Of

12:13

course, Arlon. I've always wondered this,

12:15

is this guy to make the prison clothes? Is this

12:18

the Price is Right Bob Barker? Okay,

12:21

I looked it up and it's not. I'm

12:23

sorry. Yeah, it's a different guy named Bob Barker. But

12:25

I mean, I don't

12:29

know, maybe this Barker in some circles

12:31

is more famous. This is maybe the premier

12:34

catalog that prison

12:36

administrators, especially where I live on the

12:38

East Coast, order from. Like if

12:40

you are running a prison, this has everything

12:43

that you need. But anyone can go look at the Bob

12:45

Barker catalog. They post a PDF on their site,

12:47

like Emily showed it to me.

12:49

Click here for the 2020 Bob Barker catalog.

12:52

Yeah, look, clothing. When Emily and I

12:54

looked, there were pages and pages of prison

12:56

clothes, some on models or most

12:58

abstractly floating in space. And

13:01

sure enough, almost everything came

13:03

in orange or at least had an option to come

13:06

in orange. So there's a yeah, orange two-piece.

13:08

Here's an orange

13:09

jumpsuit. Knock-off crocs

13:11

and black and an orange. Gym

13:14

clothes, sweatshirts, sweatpants,

13:17

thermal underwear. The

13:19

Bob Barker catalog even sells

13:21

the uniforms for the security guards and

13:24

tools for the security guards. They have

13:27

like combat equipment, tasers,

13:31

backgammon, like fun things

13:33

for the commissary. And it's

13:35

like jarring from a just general consumer

13:38

perspective to see this document

13:40

that contains all of those

13:43

items at once.

13:46

Okay, so Erlon, you knew Bob Barker

13:48

from being in prison, right? I mean, I

13:50

didn't know Bob Barker. But

13:54

everybody had Bob Barker jeans. They was like

13:56

Levi's.

13:59

You would see the emblem on

14:02

the buttons, you know what I'm saying? And

14:04

you know, it wasn't that many jeans inside the prison.

14:06

So any state jean technically was Bob Barker's.

14:09

So he was getting money from a lot of people.

14:11

He was making dope. But

14:14

he's not the only one that's supplying uniforms

14:17

to prisons.

14:18

Right. So the other day I was in San Quentin,

14:20

you know, a lot of young guys hanging out. And

14:22

so I just asked them who made the clothes

14:24

they were wearing right then, you know?

14:33

Can you look at the label on your clothes

14:35

and tell me what it says? New

14:38

era. Mine is

14:41

A4. Does

14:44

it say where it's made? Probably.

14:47

What about in your pants? What

14:49

does it say in the pants? Made in the US.

14:51

Oh, Cal PIA. Oh, Prison

14:54

Industry Pants. Okay. Can

14:56

you describe what PIA is? PIA,

14:58

it's called Prison Industry Authority. And

15:02

they use inmate labor

15:04

to make clothing, sheets,

15:07

all kinds of products, mattresses, you

15:11

name it. But

15:13

does that actually mean that like some of the uniforms

15:16

made by PIA could be made,

15:18

at least in part, in San Quentin?

15:20

They could, if San

15:23

Quentin have a gormant section, you

15:25

have places like I think it's the CMC

15:28

that makes the clothes, the t-shirts, the socks,

15:30

the blues, the PIA

15:33

system do different things. Yeah.

15:35

CMC is the California men's colony. It's in St. Louis,

15:38

Obispo.

15:40

Out of all the clothes that you're wearing, what

15:42

is PIA and what's not PIA for

15:44

you, Ryan, first? My

15:47

pants are PIA. My

15:49

shoes are Vans. My

15:52

jeans are not jeans,

15:55

but they're the blue pants that look like jeans.

15:57

They're made at PIA, USA. So

16:00

if all you got is prison issue closed chances

16:03

are you gonna be wearing a lot of PIA

16:06

shit

16:06

Right and you can totally tell PIA

16:08

closed because they have a very

16:11

clear sign on them, right? They all have

16:14

stamped in yellow writing down the side

16:16

of their pant leg and on the back of the shirt

16:19

CDC our

16:20

prisoner which stands for the California

16:22

Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation Prisoners

16:26

stare prisoner. Mm-hmm So if

16:29

somehow you managed to bus

16:31

out of prison You'd have a real

16:33

hard time fitting into society.

16:35

Yeah.

16:36

Yeah. Yeah, but I mean

16:38

nobody wants to wear clothes with prisoner

16:40

stamped on it And I know we've talked about this

16:42

on the show before Erlon But there are definitely

16:45

guys inside who sew up their

16:47

pants and change them to try

16:49

to hide that big Cdc are that's

16:51

written on the side of the pant and

16:53

it's against the rules, but obviously

16:56

people do it anyway

16:57

Like they patch it up like how do they

16:59

hide exactly how would they do it? I don't

17:01

know if they like take two pairs of pants and sew

17:04

two left legs together. I'm not

17:06

gonna turn one leg It's only on one leg. It's

17:07

only on one leg. It's the right or the left. So you might have

17:10

two left legs legs They're

17:12

being it's a brand. It's like a logo

17:15

on the outside Which

17:18

is kind of a callback to some of

17:20

the earliest forms of prison uniform

17:22

And I'm talking about when prison uniforms

17:24

first emerged in England in the 1800s Those

17:28

prison uniforms were stamped entirely

17:30

from head to toe in this one

17:33

symbol It was

17:36

firstly the symbol

17:38

in the 14th century That

17:40

sheep had burned on their

17:42

bodies so that sheep

17:45

didn't wander off Royal land

17:48

literally branded like a sheep

17:51

The logo is of this very wide

17:53

arrow that almost looks like an open-ended triangle

17:56

and this was stamped all over the uniforms And

17:58

therefore all over the prison prisoner's bodies.

18:01

It was called the broad arrow. So

18:04

it is just exactly like

18:06

it says a broad arrow. Former

18:08

dress historian and professor emerita of

18:10

the Royal College of Art, Juliette Ash is

18:13

the author of Dress Behind Bars,

18:15

which is sort of the definitive book on this. And

18:17

really, even though it might seem a bit

18:19

degrading to be branded like a sheep, these

18:22

were at least new

18:24

clean clothes. The

18:28

institution of uniforms was supposed to be this

18:30

progressive, benevolent thing. It

18:33

was better than the system that prisons had before.

18:35

It was called malign neglect, which

18:38

is basically you went in the clothes

18:40

that you were wearing when you

18:43

were convicted. Which could be literally

18:45

anything. And so it could be rags.

18:48

If you were an aristocrat, it could be silk

18:50

garments and clothing.

18:53

But prison visitors in the 18th century,

18:55

in England and also in America, saw

18:59

inmates just half naked. Therefore,

19:02

the introduction of

19:03

uniforms was part of a larger attempt to clean up

19:06

the penitentiary system. To make prisons

19:08

more sanitary, sure. But also

19:10

to sort of turn prisons into well-oiled

19:13

machines. It was meant

19:15

to be a reform like Bentham's model prison,

19:18

where conditions of prisons were meant to

19:20

get better. They were more

19:23

regulated and disciplined and

19:25

therefore the uniform was part of this

19:27

regulation, both in America

19:30

and in Britain. So in the UK,

19:32

this tightened up regulation looked like the

19:34

broad arrow. And in the US,

19:37

it looked like the black and white

19:39

stripes,

19:40

which, if you pretend you're

19:42

living in the 1860s, men did not dress

19:44

that way. They were not

19:47

wearing these big, bold patterns.

19:49

This was an unusual

19:52

outfit.

19:54

Both the black and white stripes and the broad

19:56

arrow were in Oscar Wilde.

20:00

words, who was in Reading Prison

20:02

for some time, prisoners

20:04

became laughable

20:06

to the outside world. They were

20:08

a bit clownish looking. That

20:11

was part of the punishment.

20:12

And that became then

20:14

part of what films used

20:17

prison uniforms as laughable

20:20

characters like Buster Keaton or

20:22

Charlie Chaplin, who were often in

20:24

broad arrows or black and white stripes.

20:27

And so the black and white stripes lived

20:30

on in American films and cartoons long

20:32

after they were largely removed from the prison

20:34

population. After the iconic

20:37

prison uniform was abolished in the

20:40

1920s in America and Britain, then there

20:43

was types of regulatory dress

20:44

control. So

20:47

then there was this move that was like, okay, what if we didn't

20:50

make clothes overtly humiliating

20:52

and instead made them more constructive?

20:55

Like what if we connected them directly to a system

20:57

of good behavior? So in the UK,

21:00

the uniforms became more like military

21:02

uniforms with little marks on the arm for

21:04

good behavior and higher rankings. What

21:06

happened in America after the black and white stripes,

21:09

there was a sort of regulatory system

21:12

of clothing inmates according

21:14

to the crimes that they committed

21:16

and also according

21:17

to good or bad behavior

21:19

inside. So that there

21:21

was a whole color coded

21:24

system. And one

21:26

of the colors assigned to people who weren't

21:29

following prison rules was bright

21:31

orange. Wearing orange became

21:34

identifiable with bad behavior

21:37

and criminality. And

21:40

that that's where I think the orange derived

21:42

from. As far

21:45

as the jumpsuit is concerned, I think it's very

21:47

easy and cheap to produce. It's

21:50

an all in one. And that all

21:52

in one quality makes the jumpsuit

21:54

unusually punishing for different groups.

21:57

Like for some religions, women aren't supposed to be

21:59

able to do that.

21:59

to wear pants at all. And

22:02

also, like, you have to take it all

22:04

the way off to go to the bathroom. Like, you

22:06

have to get completely naked. And

22:09

there's the fact that wearing a jumpsuit, or

22:11

really any prison uniform for that matter,

22:14

automatically brands you as someone

22:17

who has committed a criminal offense.

22:20

And this is what led to the movement against

22:22

uniforms, which is what brings us

22:24

back to San Quentin and to

22:27

the Black Panthers. As far as

22:29

the Black Panthers were concerned, in San

22:31

Quentin and Folsom prisons, they

22:34

considered themselves to be political

22:36

prisoners and didn't want to be identified

22:39

as criminals whatsoever in prisons.

22:41

So they wanted to

22:43

have political status, which

22:46

would mean wearing their own clothes.

22:50

So this has been a long-standing thing.

22:52

Political prisoners around the world have

22:54

always asserted that they should not have

22:56

to wear prison uniforms. It had

22:59

been going on in Ireland for a long time,

23:01

over the 19th century.

23:03

Irish Republicans who wanted to be free from

23:05

British imperialism did not want to have

23:07

to wear the branding of the crown, the

23:09

broad arrow marked all over their body.

23:12

They considered they should be in

23:14

their own clothes during the 19th

23:16

century. And that carried on into the 20th

23:18

century.

23:19

And then that was taken up by a lot of

23:22

other organizations, like the Suffragettes

23:24

in England in the 1920s

23:26

and also Black Panthers in America.

23:29

All of these groups, the Irish Republicans,

23:32

the Suffragists, the Black Panthers, they

23:34

were like, I'm being punished for who I

23:36

am. And I could never possibly be

23:39

reformed. They argued that as

23:41

political prisoners, they should be allowed to wear

23:43

their own clothes. And

23:45

when they went on hunger strikes and

23:48

they had peaceful sit-ins in

23:50

Folsom prison and San Quentin prison,

23:53

they were treated very roughly.

23:56

And so the Panthers helped fuel an international

23:59

movement.

23:59

around prison uniforms and

24:02

led to many countries wondering

24:04

if they should get rid of them. Organizations

24:08

sprang up in England

24:10

called CROP, the Prisoners Union,

24:13

and then in Sweden there was CRUM, which

24:15

is a reform organization. When

24:18

the reforms happened in the 1970s and 80s, taking

24:21

away the uniform was quite

24:23

an important re-establishment of people's

24:26

own identities.

24:34

You two have visited prisons in other countries

24:36

fairly recently, right? Yeah, Norway,

24:40

London. London. What were they wearing

24:42

there? What did their clothes look like? In England,

24:44

as far as I remember, they wore uniforms.

24:46

There was nothing that was that different from

24:49

California. But in Norway,

24:51

it went both ways. So

24:54

we were in one prison, Erlan, where

24:55

dudes wore uniforms.

24:58

But we were in other ones where they could wear their own clothes.

25:01

Yeah, so it's not a given. In many

25:03

prisons, there are no uniforms at

25:05

all. And a few different places have experimented

25:07

with making uniforms optional, including

25:11

San

25:11

Quentin. Then I got

25:14

to San Quentin. If you didn't want to wear no prison clothes,

25:16

there was nobody tripping. But

25:19

how would you get new clothes? You

25:21

buy them. Before

25:24

we got there, San Quentin was known

25:26

for people wearing

25:29

all their regular stuff.

25:30

Okay, well, we'll get into that. After

25:33

the break, why the uniforms went away

25:35

and why they came back.

25:45

A lot goes into each

25:47

Ear Hustle episode, but there's so much

25:49

more that happens outside the episode.

25:51

And you can read all about it in

25:53

the lowdown, our email newsletter.

26:00

Check out recommendations for the team, and

26:02

of course, Erlon, you know I love this part the best.

26:04

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26:36

You know, I had heard about these times back

26:39

in the day when people in prison could

26:41

actually wear their own clothes.

26:43

Like from their closets, like their own

26:45

clothes. Yep. Yeah, it reminds me

26:47

of those San Quentin archive photographs.

26:49

Remember those? The 1970s, there's this beautiful

26:52

photograph. Yeah, this guy in a three-piece

26:54

suit holding his little kid

26:56

that's wearing like the same outfit. You

26:58

can't even tell that they're in prison.

27:00

This was when I was an infant.

27:02

Teeny tiny? This was way

27:05

before my time. But our friend Lonnie

27:07

Morris was there for this era of San Quentin.

27:09

Right, and you heard him at

27:11

the top of the show being confused about

27:13

what people actually wear in California prisons.

27:16

Lonnie got to San Quentin in the late 70s. Right

27:19

around the time they started allowing people to have

27:21

personal clothing

27:22

there. Yep, and you could have

27:24

had whatever clothes you wanted

27:26

sent to you.

27:29

So back then your family could literally send you

27:32

packages. So I could get my girl,

27:34

my sister, my brother, whoever, put a

27:36

package together, man, put this shirt in there, put this jacket

27:39

in there, and they ship it to you. I had

27:41

street shoes, everything.

27:42

So like what would you be wearing? Well,

27:45

sweaters, and you still had to have jeans,

27:47

but they could be Levi's, not prison jeans, right?

27:50

Jackets, shirts, internet. Any color? Any

27:53

color. Patterns, you could have plaid. Any patterns, no

27:55

restrictions on any of that.

27:59

Erlon, I'm curious what you think of this, but to

28:02

me, the idea of seeing guys

28:04

inside in these colors and patterns is

28:06

mind-blowing because all I think of is blue when

28:08

I go in there. See a blue.

28:09

I'm just thinking of seeing cats in platforms.

28:12

I would love that. So

28:16

why do I have a picture in my head of, like,

28:19

silk and nylon butterfly collars,

28:21

bell bottoms? I mean, some people's

28:24

moves, but not mine. So

28:26

you could

28:27

have. If you wanted to, you could have had on, like, a three-piece

28:29

suit? Well, I had a two-piece

28:32

jean suit that I had tailor-made in

28:34

the prison, because they also had a tailor shop in the prison at any time.

28:38

Black folks, we got a special accent on

28:40

dressing, so among us, you always show

28:43

your flavor, your style, and you know

28:45

how you got it going on, as we say, by how

28:47

you dress.

28:48

But, wait a minute, laundry had to be different then,

28:51

because you wouldn't be putting your personal clothes on. No, they had dry

28:53

cleaning. What? Yes. Yes.

28:57

Like, you went there, you dropped your Okay.

29:03

So you had a guy that worked in the dry cleaners, and you'd pay

29:05

him a fee a week, right, to do your dry

29:07

cleaning. Then you had a laundry man, you'd work in the laundry, you'd

29:09

pay him a fee a week to do your laundry. Your own. This was,

29:11

like, above board. Yeah, this was all above

29:13

board. I mean, I actually had a dry cleaning that was allowed for

29:15

incarcerated people to utilize.

29:16

Did it come back with one of those plastic

29:18

things over? Yes, it did. If,

29:21

like me, I'm a regular customer. So every

29:23

Tuesday, morning, before breakfast,

29:25

before he go to work, hey, man, had your

29:27

stuff bagged up. This is what I got, you know what I'm

29:29

saying? You think he would pick it up? Yeah, he'd pick it up. Yeah, he'd take it

29:32

in. He'd return it. You know what I'm saying?

29:34

Yeah. Ever get your stuff dry cleaned at San Quentin?

29:36

Nah, they don't have a dry cleaner. They got this other little

29:38

laundry system where they give you

29:40

these laundry bags. They're like, net bags. You

29:42

throw your stuff in there. They throw it over the tier. It

29:45

goes to this big industrial something, and

29:47

then if you're lucky, it come back.

29:49

But everything's washed in the bag. In the

29:51

bag. It don't come out the bag.

29:55

Do you think that being able to wear your own clothes

29:57

put you in a different state of mind? Or did you just

29:59

take it for granted? because that's what everybody was doing. No.

30:02

So most definitely wearing your own clothes

30:04

made you feel like you had some ownership

30:07

over your personhood.

30:08

Then in the mid-'80s, while those clothing

30:11

reforms were still going on elsewhere, California

30:14

Corrections decided it was time to tighten

30:16

up the rules around what you could wear inside.

30:19

We were informed that they were

30:22

going to take our personal clothing and our personal

30:24

property because the Department of Corrections

30:26

was going in a different direction and changing the policies

30:28

about what we could have in terms of personal

30:31

properties,

30:32

including clothing. Did you hear... Like,

30:34

was there buzz about it happening? Or did

30:36

one day they just say... No, it was a buzz.

30:39

So there had been an ongoing issue

30:42

with people having too much clothes, safety

30:45

concerns, so part of their logic was, well,

30:48

how do we tell these guys from the volunteers? How do

30:50

we tell them from an administrator? And all that kind of stuff.

30:52

So they used that as part of the

30:55

justification, right? And

30:57

then the other thing was the property, how much property

30:59

you can have. And then the other part was

31:02

we need to get people in uniformed outfits,

31:05

you know, that everybody would know who's who and what's what.

31:07

And so we put them all in the same kind of outfits, we'll

31:10

know who they are, right? So all those things

31:12

started becoming a reason for, we

31:15

need to crack down on these

31:17

guys that got way too much freedom.

31:26

Inmates may possess only those items

31:28

of personal clothing authorized

31:31

by the warden or superintendent and as property

31:34

acquired in accordance with institution

31:36

procedures. So

31:39

the warden

31:42

had made an announcement

31:45

that all personal

31:47

clothing, all personal clothes, all

31:49

personal property that was not state issued

31:52

property was gonna have to be sent home

31:54

or they would be confiscated. And they sent a memo out

31:56

to that

31:56

effect.

32:02

We had a big meeting in the

32:04

North Block cafeteria and

32:06

the warden came down, his name was George Sumner. We

32:09

called him Big George. Three, four hundred people showed

32:11

up and the warden proceeded to tell him us

32:14

that it was out of his hands. This was coming

32:16

down on Sacramento. He held him

32:18

off as long as he could, but we're at the stage

32:20

now where I got in forts this.

32:24

They were going to come around and search the cells

32:26

for all the outside clothes. We

32:28

walked out to the yard and we decided, man, we're going

32:30

to protest. Our thing was, man,

32:33

we ain't going nowhere till you let us keep our

32:35

clothes and keep our property. So we had like

32:37

a 45 minute standoff. And

32:40

then at some point they

32:42

said, hey, man, this is like your last warning kind of thing.

32:46

And then they brought the guns

32:48

and told us that we didn't lock

32:50

up. They were going to shoot us

32:53

off the yard, essentially. I mean, they may have used that word,

32:55

but that's what they were saying.

32:57

And I started off with a few hundred people. Right.

33:00

And it was one of my 10, 15 of us standing

33:02

on the yard and we're like, well, what are we going

33:04

to do? And it just so

33:06

happened that 10 or 15 were all

33:08

black. So I think that might

33:10

have something to do with our affinity, with our clothes and

33:12

our desire to be dressed.

33:15

We were willing to be dressed until the death. But

33:20

God's willing to die on the

33:23

yard to get shot. Maybe not die, but get shot though, for

33:25

sure. We understood the import of

33:27

being able to have something that gave you some

33:29

personal identity.

33:32

Finally, courts ruled. Guys

33:34

in San Quentin could keep their clothes.

33:37

But then. A few years later,

33:39

they came up with this thing that we can't take

33:41

the clothes from you, but you can't wear them anywhere.

33:45

The police literally told me, you can wear your

33:47

street clothes in your cell. But

33:49

when you step outside that cell, you've got to have

33:51

CDCR clothes on. So

33:53

when you had just your clothes and you could only wear

33:55

them in the cell, were there

33:58

any times that you just put them on to feel good?

33:59

I did, I did, I

34:02

did. No, it's crazy.

34:05

I did used to do that, man. I just get dressed

34:07

up in my cell, and you know what I'm saying? You

34:09

ain't got no big mirror, but look at myself in the mirror, and then look at me,

34:12

and me present around in my cell with my little outfit,

34:14

so.

34:16

I mean, you gotta do things to keep you

34:20

alive, man. You know, your spirit alive, not

34:22

just your physical body, but your spirit alive. So

34:24

a lot of that stuff is about that, I think.

34:29

I loved this conversation, Ron. I could

34:32

just see him in his cell, like delicately

34:35

prancing around a little bit, feeling really good

34:37

about himself.

34:38

Definitely, just looking at himself

34:40

in the mirror, probably talking to the mirror,

34:42

thanking him in the club.

34:44

I would do the same thing, right? I mean, it's

34:46

a fantasy. You gotta live outside them walls.

34:48

It's

34:48

a fantasy. Okay,

34:52

so thinking about what Lonnie had to say, we

34:54

started wondering if guys could

34:56

have one outfit to wear that wasn't a uniform,

34:59

what would it be? Two

35:01

of our inside producers, Tony and

35:03

Sadiq, took that question out to

35:06

the yard.

35:10

Look, there's our first victim, Vernon.

35:15

So we're working on a story about clothes

35:17

in prison. It's sort of asked

35:19

you if you could have any one

35:22

outfit

35:23

to wear in prison, what would it be from

35:26

head to toe, all the details? I'm gonna

35:28

say a suit. Details, details, my

35:30

man. I love my

35:32

element. Let's see, gray. Gray,

35:34

okay, classic. Gray, lines. Yeah,

35:38

I noticed you're wearing a 49ers necklace with

35:40

the necklace work with this outfit. The

35:43

necklace works with every outfit.

35:46

And can you just say your name, please? My name is Vernon

35:49

Evans. Thanks, Vernon, appreciate it. Thank

35:51

you, you guys have a good day. I

35:54

would have to say Louis Vuitton, everything.

35:56

You know, back in the days when we used to flood,

35:59

flooding his in.

35:59

now so I'll show a little

36:02

skin on my ankles with no socks on

36:04

with some nice Louis Vuitton loafers

36:06

handmade from Italy.

36:08

So would you have any jewelry on accessories

36:11

a hat or shades or anything? Yes

36:13

I would

36:15

more than likely I would wear

36:17

my trinkets that I plan

36:19

on creating

36:22

made out of gold,

36:23

rose gold or

36:26

platinum with diamonds, rubies,

36:28

emerald sapphires. Y'all better not

36:30

steal my idea either. Oh man

36:33

I'd have to go with some good boots that are actually

36:36

waterproof so when I walk through the giant

36:38

puddles from H-Unit then

36:40

my feet don't get wet and they're not wet all day. Is

36:42

it any brand that you like? Well

36:45

I might as well go with some red wings.

36:49

As long as we're dreaming let's go big

36:51

right? Yeah. Man I've been in here for almost 25

36:54

years let me see. I bought

36:56

some 501

36:57

relaxed fit Levi's.

37:00

There's some Oxford, Teller

37:03

Brown leather boots with leather laces

37:06

and maybe

37:08

a nice soft cotton

37:12

plaid Pendleton shirt.

37:16

Okay what kind of shoes would you like with that?

37:19

Red wing. Another

37:22

red wing. My name is Clonard Sivron

37:24

Wade but my identity name is Akimahuru

37:27

Amana. Alright if you can

37:30

have any outfit from head to

37:32

toe in prison what would it be? If I

37:34

could have a nice floral

37:38

flannel type fit with

37:40

some nice open-toed gold colored

37:43

tan sandals and

37:45

a nice fedora. Can you state

37:47

your name? Michael Adams. Okay

37:49

Michael Adams

37:50

if you could pick any outfit

37:53

in prison that you can wear besides

37:55

your blues what would it be from head to toe? Colors

37:57

everything. Wow.

38:00

That's crazy. I

38:02

wouldn't have anything on my head because I think the ball thing

38:04

is working for me right now. I would

38:06

probably want to wear a vested

38:08

suit, probably cream colored with

38:11

a maroon tie, the

38:14

slacks and a nice pair of

38:17

floor shimes. Floor

38:20

shimes, that's something I never heard of. Can you like

38:22

explain what floor shimes are? Floor shimes are a style

38:24

of shoe. It might be old school. I don't know. Floor

38:27

shimes are like a state Seattle, but it's a style of

38:29

shoe that is kind of a throwback

38:31

to the 40s. That's what I would

38:33

do. I'd probably have my little bling, my watch and

38:36

maybe a nice chain and tie pin. That

38:38

would be about it. Fantasy outfit

38:40

and Armani suit.

38:41

Tell us about your Armani

38:44

suit. Well, I've never actually worn

38:47

an Armani suit. I used to see people going

38:49

back and forth to work and dress

38:51

very nicely and dressed for work. And

38:54

I always thought that that's what I should

38:56

be doing. I want some retro Jordans,

39:00

a cream colored suit, a

39:03

bow tie with checkers on it. Kind

39:06

of like an ice cream man, but

39:08

not. You know what I mean?

39:11

And like a silk shirt with the bow tie.

39:14

That's what I'm talking

39:15

about. With the fedora though, with the feather. Since

39:17

I'm a fashionista, I like to change three

39:20

times a day. My ideal

39:22

outfit would be it'd be a romper or

39:24

a jumpsuit or any type of thing like that

39:26

with some nice little heels. If

39:29

not like some cute wedges or something

39:31

like that, or maybe some Doc

39:34

Martin boots, since I see the boys around here walking

39:36

around in boots.

39:41

So what changed for you personally

39:43

when you couldn't have your own clothes anymore? It

39:46

was devastating, man. I mean,

39:48

for a guy that likes to dress, you know, I've always

39:51

liked to dress, you know. And so for

39:53

me to be deprived of that was really, really devastating. And

39:55

so I started trying to find work around.

39:58

in

40:00

San Quentin, after those events he told us

40:02

about earlier, you know, those protests

40:04

around personal clothing. And in that

40:06

time, the uniforms that

40:08

he and other incarcerated people had

40:10

to wear changed a few times. First

40:13

they were all blue. Then the prison

40:16

added the names on the clothing, you

40:18

know, like CDCR prisoner, written

40:21

down the pants, leg, and on the back of your

40:23

shirts. I was

40:25

so proud that I would never

40:29

wear state-issue clothing with

40:31

the CDCR on it. And

40:33

I was able to basically keep that up for

40:35

most of my time in prison. Like,

40:38

Lenny had a gang of button-down shirts that probably

40:40

was like on the last thread. Yep. I

40:42

won't do that. Yeah, like they were

40:45

just due to attrition. They

40:47

were see-through. They was like silk. Yeah, no,

40:49

yeah. Ain't no helon, yeah. I was like,

40:51

man, I'm not wearing that CDCR

40:53

stuff on me.

40:55

So Lenny held on to

40:57

the clothes he had. And he

41:00

also had another tool, the intense sport

41:02

of prison hand-me-downs.

41:05

And then guys going home, you got to catch them homeboys

41:07

going on, let me see that shirt, bro. Oh, they ain't got no CDCR

41:09

on, let me have that, bro. I used to track dudes.

41:12

You going on, bro. Remember that jacket

41:14

you got, let me have that. That shirt, you got that long suit, I'll buy

41:16

that. You know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But

41:19

for sure, if you one of those

41:21

dudes in prison that has,

41:23

like, button-downs and jeans,

41:26

when you're going home or you're on your way out, people

41:29

are at you, like, bro, what you doing with that shirt? No, they was at me.

41:31

What you doing with them jeans? What you doing with them boots? What you doing?

41:36

Then in 2021, Lenny wound

41:39

up on the receiving end of that kind of attention,

41:42

because after 43 years, he was

41:44

finally going to be released from prison.

41:46

Dudes are really clocking when

41:48

you get now. And then they trying to sway you

41:51

against giving the clothes that you promised

41:53

somebody to give to them. But I'm your homeboy. You just

41:55

let that dude in here and all that kind of shit. I went through

41:57

all that jacket on, my lord.

41:59

They was at me about that jacket.

42:02

The jacket, legendary.

42:04

Mm-hmm. It was the only jacket I ever saw him

42:07

in. Yeah. Held on to that thing.

42:10

Am I remembering correctly that your jean

42:12

jacket had plaid inside of it? The

42:15

inlining? Yes. Yeah. Now that

42:18

had to be... Well, that was personal. Personal? Yeah, it was

42:20

personal. Yeah, that was a dickie. That was a dickie.

42:22

So that had to be pretty old. Yeah, it was

42:24

a little old. Yeah. But again, because of that

42:26

law, that was... The grandfather

42:29

rule? Yeah, the grandfather rule. Because of that, then

42:32

they couldn't take my dickie. That's

42:34

gotta be the title. You couldn't

42:36

get no more dickies? No, I can't. Don't take my dickie.

42:44

Of course, Llamo handed him down. Can't

42:47

say the who, but he handed him down. That's right.

42:49

Yeah, yeah. I remember there was a... There was a passionate

42:51

struggle to get that. But

42:55

Lonnie left that signature jacket behind.

42:57

And I'm guessing other stuff that reminded

43:00

him of life inside. When I got out of prison,

43:02

I... Initially, I had a problem. I

43:04

was never gonna wear jeans again. Never wear no blue jeans

43:07

again in my life, right? And

43:09

then I didn't wear them for a year.

43:12

I wanted all the fly colors,

43:14

man. Give me a variety of colors, and

43:17

blue was not one of them.

43:21

So that emotional journey that Lonnie went

43:24

on with his jeans is sort of the parallel

43:26

opposite of what happened to Cheryl, the artist.

43:29

He knew he wanted to wear this orange

43:31

jumpsuit as a statement, but like, he

43:34

didn't want to actually feel

43:36

that material on his skin again, you

43:38

know? That's really why he bought his prison

43:41

uniform on Amazon, rather than, say,

43:43

the Bob Barker catalog. And

43:45

like, comparatively, the jumpsuit that

43:48

Cheryl wore for his art piece was

43:50

like, luxurious.

43:54

The one on Amazon was amazing. It had

43:56

buttons. It had a zipper. Not only

43:58

a zipper, it had a tool. zipper,

44:01

which is highly functional and great.

44:03

So you don't have to remove the entire cover

44:05

all when you use the rest. You know what I mean? Like it was just

44:08

so nice. Like if I

44:10

do have to do this, at least I'm gonna be comfortable

44:12

doing it, you know?

44:16

Although it's not like Cheryl was actually emotionally

44:19

comfortable wearing this jumpsuit. Doing it

44:21

for me was also personally hard. Even though the jumpsuit

44:24

wasn't real, it was torturous

44:26

to

44:27

put on this garment that like, daily

44:30

reminders of the space that I just exited.

44:32

Like why am I doing this? You know? It

44:35

got tough. I mean it got really tough and

44:37

wearing it every day became activism

44:40

in a way for me to illuminate.

44:42

Like every work day

44:44

I'm here on campus wearing this. Somebody's going to trial,

44:47

somebody's going to court, but more bodies like me

44:49

are getting in these cages

44:52

and places. But

44:54

it's

44:54

also just so fascinating to subvert the

44:56

meaning to take this uniform and become

44:58

the one who's like unique in standing out. Yeah

45:00

exactly and I, you know, by all

45:02

means I wish anybody had that freedom

45:05

to just be themselves and wear whatever

45:07

they wanted to wear it. I want the freedom

45:09

to wear it, wear many things without

45:12

being scrutinized or being feared

45:14

even though I'm not a threat.

45:19

And that inability to wear

45:21

whatever he wanted, both inside

45:23

and outside jail, was made very

45:26

clear to Cheryl

45:27

during a trip to New York where he presented

45:29

the jumpsuit at an arts conference.

45:32

I brought it in my backpack, changed in the restroom,

45:34

came out, presented my project, went back

45:37

to the restroom, changed out of it, put in my backpack

45:39

and left. And after leaving I went

45:41

out to the streets of New York and

45:43

I saw this young lady, she

45:45

was white and she had on the exact

45:48

same jumpsuit.

45:50

And I asked her, I was like I know where

45:52

you got that jumpsuit. I know the brand. I

45:54

can't believe you're wearing this. And

45:56

I was like why are you wearing it? She was like oh

45:59

I just got out.

45:59

with a smile and a playful joke. And

46:02

then I was like, wow,

46:04

this is so the opposite of all the things

46:06

that I feel like you don't know what

46:09

I just had to do to

46:10

even wear this. And you're out

46:12

here in New York streets just like breezing

46:15

through town and this thing like man, I would never.

46:20

So in his own life, when

46:22

he's not performing with his jumpsuit, Cheryl

46:26

is really not one to have a uniform. But

46:28

I'm also an artist. I don't know. Some people

46:31

may be a cool with wearing the same thing, but for me,

46:33

I like a little bit of spice and variety.

46:35

But sometimes, as

46:38

an artist, that's not the best for your clothes.

46:40

Because some of my favorite sweatshirt, track

46:43

suits or whatever, they have resin on it, like

46:46

things you can't wash out.

46:47

Cheryl says a lot of his artist friends have jumpsuits

46:50

that they wear in the studio so they can get paint

46:52

and resin all over their clothes. Something

46:55

like a uniform. It dawned on me the

46:57

other day, I was like, you know, I don't have

46:59

one. I don't have an article of clothing

47:02

that I just kind of go to work in. And

47:04

it's terrible. And I'm like, oh, wow, like

47:06

I need to get it together. Maybe I do need a

47:08

uniform.

47:09

And Cheryl's considering it. He'd

47:12

maybe even wear a jumpsuit,

47:15

but definitely not an orange one.

47:16

Like Lonnie said about jeans,

47:19

it takes a while to unpack the clothes

47:21

from the memories associated with them.

47:25

About a year after I'd been out of close to

47:28

it, the practical side

47:30

started coming up, right? You know, you just can't be

47:32

dressed up all the time every day. You

47:34

can, but costs, right? And not

47:36

only that, it's just not comfortable all the time.

47:39

And so I started thinking about the jeans

47:41

thing. And I was like, man, you know what, if

47:44

I refuse to get jeans, that

47:46

means the lingering influence or impact

47:49

of the prison is still controlling, dictating how

47:51

I'm living my life as a free person. So I'm

47:53

not going to do that. And jeans feel good.

47:55

You know, so I bought me a pair of jeans,

47:58

right?

47:59

the first time you put the jeans on? You

48:01

know what, it wasn't like I thought it was gonna

48:03

be. I thought I was gonna have some kind of

48:06

visceral reaction to it, but I didn't. They

48:08

felt comfortable. And the first thing was, with

48:11

me, it's always do they fit good, do they look good,

48:13

right? And the ones I got, the first pair

48:15

I got, fit it good and they looked it good.

48:20

And

48:22

they asked, Alan Nigel, what

48:25

do you two wear when you go inside? Yeah,

48:30

what do you wear when you go into prison? Well,

48:33

when I go in there, I dress up. I

48:35

mean, I go up in that motherfucker on

48:38

point. You do, you do.

48:40

Like in what? Like what?

48:43

I'd probably be in there with, what, Louis

48:45

shoes on? You don't have them? No. Slacks.

48:47

I see those a lot. Just slacks. Then I might even mix

48:50

it up with some gang attire, but nobody know cuz

48:52

I got on Louis shoes. But you're always color coordinated,

48:54

right? Always color coordinated. From hat

48:56

to socks. That's me. That's me. What

48:58

do you wear, Nigel? Well,

49:00

I actually wear this. She color coordinates too. I coordinate

49:02

too, but in a different way. Because I actually

49:04

wear the same outfit every time I go in. I

49:08

wear black jeans, a t-shirt, and a black

49:10

button over that, and a pair of black sneakers.

49:13

Okay, I've seen you in the world before. That

49:15

is extremely sedate. Nigel

49:18

has very incredible style

49:20

and is like very fearless. This is

49:21

low key Nigel. This is her on the low. This

49:25

is low key me and it is very intentional.

49:28

Cuz when I go into prison, really what I wanna say

49:30

with the way that I look is that you can always count

49:32

on me. I'm always gonna be the same person.

49:35

I will always have the same outfit on. So my uniform

49:37

says I'm always gonna show up and

49:40

I'm always gonna show up as the same person. But

49:43

what are Errol's outfit saying? Cuz you're saying

49:45

something else too, right?

49:46

I'm saying just

49:49

keep doing right and you'll be wearing this in

49:51

a minute. Cuz when I go in there, that's what

49:53

I try to do. I know that it's

49:55

an inspiration for others. Yeah, I

49:57

try my best to be an inspiration. Yeah.

49:59

I see how people light up when they

50:02

see you walking to you. It's really, it's beautiful.

50:05

They put themselves in my clothes. Yeah,

50:08

I mean, it's interesting that you're both sort of representing

50:10

the two different approaches, you know, like

50:12

the pros and cons of having

50:14

a uniform versus not

50:16

having a uniform. And you're both saying really distinct

50:19

things with your clothes. You're both

50:21

projecting real

50:23

messages with your clothes, which is, I mean,

50:26

arguably it's what we all sort

50:28

of do in our daily life. It's just

50:31

really, really fine

50:33

tuned. Yeah, I would say that

50:36

we both have the freedom to choose what we

50:38

want our clothes to say when we go into prison. And that's the big

50:40

difference that we are making a choice

50:44

through our selection. Well, I

50:46

don't know. I think

50:46

I wore the regular uniform too long to

50:49

just not just be stand

50:51

out and just not to stand out. Yeah, totally

50:53

get that. Yeah.

50:59

Yeah. This

51:04

special combination episode of Articles

51:07

of Interest and Ear Hustle was produced by

51:09

me, Avery Truffleman. With me,

51:11

Nigel Poore, Erlon Woods,

51:13

Bruce Wallace and Amy Standon. With

51:16

help from Rassan New York Thomas, Nervally

51:18

Price.

51:18

And Tony Tafoya and Darelle

51:21

Sadiq Davis inside San Quentin.

51:24

This episode was sound designed and engineered

51:26

by me, Erlon Woods and Avery Truffleman,

51:29

with help from Fernando Arruda.

51:31

It features music by David Jossi,

51:33

Antoine Williams, Erlon Woods

51:36

and Darelle Sadiq Davis and Ray

51:38

Royal.

51:39

Amy Standon edits the show. Shabnam

51:42

Sigmund is Ear Hustle's managing producer and

51:45

Bruce Wallace is the executive producer.

51:46

Thanks to acting warden Oak

51:49

Smith. Thanks also to Olivia Melkonian

51:51

and a Sinfield, Ms. Joaquin Nalavu and

51:54

most of all, Claire Mullen. And

51:56

as you know, every episode of Ear Hustle

51:59

has to be approved.

51:59

by this woman here. I

52:02

am Lieutenant Giamarra Berry, the

52:05

public information officer here at San Quentin

52:07

State Prison, and I approve this episode.

52:10

This episode was made possible by

52:12

the Just Trust, working to amplify

52:14

voices, vision, and power of

52:17

communities that are transforming the justice

52:19

system.

52:19

And this is y'all's last episode of

52:21

the season, right? Yes, it is. Yes,

52:24

it is. Congratulations. Thank you,

52:26

thank you. Episode 92.

52:27

How

52:29

many seasons? 11 seasons. 11 seasons,

52:33

going on season 12. Damn. For

52:35

listeners, we will be dropping a couple bonus

52:38

episodes between seasons, so please

52:40

keep your ears open for that. And

52:42

I really wanna give some special thanks to

52:45

our new friend at the California Institution for

52:47

Women, Lieutenant Newborg, who's

52:49

the public information officer there. He

52:51

was really helpful this season getting us into

52:53

the prison, and we're looking forward to working

52:55

with you next season.

52:56

Definitely. We'll

52:58

be back on September 6th with season 12.

53:01

Wow. Avery, tell me this. What

53:04

season are you on, Avery?

53:05

I mean, like, technically

53:07

season four, but I'm a one-man band, you guys.

53:10

Like, seasons is way too fancy for

53:12

me. Okay,

53:14

well, regardless of seasons or amount

53:16

of episodes, listeners, if

53:18

you aren't already listening to and

53:21

loving articles of interest, you

53:23

absolutely must check out Avery's show. It's

53:26

delightful, and you learn so much.

53:28

And while you're at it, check out her newsletter,

53:31

articlesofinterest.substack.com.

53:34

And to all the articles listeners out there, you

53:36

must check out Ear Hustle. It's an

53:39

extraordinary show, and I've been listening to them from

53:41

the very beginning. And they also have a newsletter.

53:43

It's

53:44

called The Lowdown, and you can subscribe

53:46

at earhustlesq.com slash

53:48

newsletter. Ear Hustle is on Facebook,

53:51

Twitter, and Instagram at

53:53

Ear Hustle SQ.

53:55

Ear Hustle and Articles of Interest

53:57

are both proud members of Radiotopia.

54:00

from PRX, a network of independent,

54:02

creator-owned, listener-supported

54:05

podcasts. Discover audio with vision

54:07

at Radiotopia.fm. I'm

54:10

Erlon Woods. I'm Nigel Poore. And

54:12

I'm Avery Truffleman.

54:15

Okay, three, two, one. Thanks

54:19

for listening. Hey,

54:21

remember

54:23

this.

54:32

I am a man of Southern

54:34

comfort. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what brother

54:37

would be. That's

54:39

the movie you just said. Yeah, I know. I like that

54:41

movie. Brother, we're out there. That was a good movie. Yeah.

54:47

Before we go, just a quick

54:49

reminder that time is running out to support

54:51

our annual fundraiser. We are trying

54:53

to reach 1,000 donors before our

54:56

season ends, but we just

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can't do that without your

54:59

help. And now it's even easier

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to give. Did someone say PayPal,

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Venmo? Please go to EarHustleSQ.com

55:07

or check the link in the show notes to donate.

55:09

Thank you. Radio

55:16

Topia from

55:19

PRX.