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Hello, it's Erlon and

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That's right. It's the time of year when

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0:31

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0:33

Hustle exists today.

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1:50

My name is Mary Dahlke. My

1:53

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1:55

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1:57

therefore they have become friends of mine also.

1:59

The following episode of Ear Hustle

2:02

contains language that may not be

2:04

appropriate for all listeners. Discretion

2:07

is advised.

2:15

We

2:18

gotta go with like an old faithful

2:21

tribe, true, we sung this a thousand times

2:23

in church so we won't forget the words. Okay.

2:26

Erlon, can you tell me what's one of the things

2:28

I've learned about prison?

2:31

Not to me. Okay. So I've noticed

2:33

that a lot of people really love to perform. Amazing.

2:37

Right. So I always

2:39

think it's kind of fun as an icebreaker

2:41

to kind of stick a microphone in someone's face and

2:43

ask them to sing. But maybe

2:45

it's actually stressful. I don't know. Okay,

2:48

you lead, I'll follow. Okay, just, we gonna do it. Maybe

2:50

to

2:50

some people, but you know, you're gonna

2:52

get those that soon

2:55

as that mic come in front of their face, they get to

2:57

perform. They gotta take a chance,

2:59

right?

3:04

This

3:07

is our first official visit to

3:09

the Central California Women's Facility

3:12

or CCWF. Some people

3:14

call it Childchilla, which is the name

3:16

of the county singer.

3:17

CCWF has the only

3:20

level four yard for women in California.

3:22

And Erlon, did you know it's actually the largest

3:25

women's prison in the world?

3:26

That's crazy in the world.

3:30

And this one has a certain reputation.

3:32

Yeah,

3:32

I don't know if it's deserved, but I've always

3:34

heard that CCWF is a pretty

3:37

tough place. Well, I mean, level

3:39

fours are high security prisons.

3:42

You know, if you're a woman and you

3:44

commit a serious crime, this is what

3:46

they gonna put you first. Right.

3:48

So for a couple of reasons, I was really curious

3:50

to see this place.

3:53

So we drove out early that

3:55

morning and met our escort who

3:57

took us through

3:57

security.

4:02

Then we jumped into a golf cart

4:05

and we drove through this big wide

4:07

open area where they had some

4:09

industrial buildings, which was

4:12

a real desolate area. There

4:15

was no one around. I can't

4:18

even call out. Yeah

4:21

and I have to say first of all, the

4:22

guy driving the cart was going pretty fast.

4:25

I was like, we don't fall out of this thing.

4:27

The other thing was I've never seen a prison like that.

4:30

You know what I thought about? You know when you're driving in the middle

4:32

of nowhere and you see those big storage buildings

4:34

and you don't know what the hell is inside of them? That's

4:36

what

4:37

it's like. This

4:39

picture

4:39

we're sitting in this golf cart, I was almost

4:42

grabbing onto your leg because I didn't want to fall out. So

4:46

eventually we arrived at this

4:47

big old kind of warehouse

4:49

building.

4:50

We walked in and that's where we met these five

4:52

incarcerated women who had agreed to

4:54

speak with us.

4:56

Could you each introduce yourselves? My

4:59

name is Yumi. My name is Good. My

5:02

name is Charity. My name is Grace.

5:05

My name is Sponze. I'll go by my last

5:08

name.

5:09

My name is Nigel by the way. Nice to meet you all.

5:12

I don't know if any of you

5:14

have heard your Hustle, the podcast that we do

5:16

about life inside prison. So

5:18

we want to hear like the small curious

5:21

things. We like to tell

5:24

stories that nobody else hears. How do

5:26

you see things? Maybe stuff you've

5:28

never told anybody because you might have thought

5:30

it was weird, but we're here to listen to

5:32

all of it. And so we're super happy to be

5:35

here and we hope that we'll be coming

5:37

back more often. But

5:39

we really feel strongly about getting women's voices because

5:41

in everything in the world women seem to get the

5:44

second part of every meal and

5:46

we want to make it the first part of the meal. Okay.

5:50

Sounds right. No man in power. Exactly.

5:53

Exactly.

6:00

We're kind of starting from scratch with these women,

6:02

aren't we? Yeah, I mean, they didn't

6:05

know about us and we didn't know about

6:07

them. So basically, it was

6:09

come sit down and tell us about yourself.

6:11

Pretty much. So today

6:14

we're going to meet

6:14

five residents of the Central

6:16

California Women's Facility or

6:18

CCWF. I'm Nigel

6:21

Poor. I'm Erlon Woods and

6:23

this is Ear Hustle from PRX's

6:25

RadioTopia.

6:31

My name is Trancita Ponce.

6:34

I have been in custody for 23 years, 4

6:39

months since the age of 18.

6:42

I'm 42 years old now.

6:44

And your sentence is? 24 years, 8 months.

6:48

Ponce has a very solid commanding

6:50

presence and Erlon, when I first saw

6:52

her, I've got to be honest, I was a

6:54

little intimidated. Really? Yeah.

6:58

So damn, you had to

6:58

do that. The whole time, I was a

7:00

problematic inmate when I first came in. Could

7:04

you tell us a story from that time when

7:06

you were problematic? You were hood.

7:08

Oh, when I was hood, I have a lot

7:10

of problematic stories from that time. I was

7:12

very

7:14

angry if you didn't look like me or

7:17

if you didn't talk like me. I

7:20

just had this standard in my brain that

7:22

if you weren't a Southerner, you weren't looking

7:24

like me, that we had no conversations.

7:27

You're a damn Southerner because that might

7:29

get pipey, but it might think of the South.

7:30

Southerner, meaning I used

7:32

to be involved in gangs. Gangs

7:35

represent Southside and Riverside

7:37

County, LA County, San Diego

7:40

County. So I was a

7:42

Southerner. And at that

7:43

time when I first came to prison, I

7:46

stood by that. When

7:48

you're involved in a gang in prison, you

7:50

got to follow a lot of rules, including

7:52

who you can and can't share a sale with.

7:55

And the big no-nos are sex

7:58

offenders, people who hurt children. children

8:00

and in some cases, homosexuals.

8:02

The prison is going to assign

8:05

you whoever they assign you. So

8:07

if you end up with someone you have a problem with,

8:10

according to gang rules, you got to get out

8:12

of that situation as quickly as possible.

8:16

I had a roommate. I found out she was a

8:18

child case. She drowned her own son.

8:22

And when I found out she did that,

8:24

of course, me being me at that time, I got

8:26

up, I assaulted her. I

8:29

hit her. I hit her monk. I spit on

8:31

her and I threw her along this

8:33

outside of my room.

8:35

No child cases was allowed to live with me. No

8:37

child cases. Nobody

8:38

who told. Nobody who was

8:41

involved with the officers. Nobody.

8:44

You had to have something for me. Drugs, alcohol,

8:47

sexy woman.

8:49

That's how I lived my life at that time.

8:52

These are my rules. You're

8:54

going to follow them. You can't wear your shoes in my room.

8:57

You know, you have to be out the room by nine o'clock. Be

8:59

out, be up in the morning,

9:00

shower, make

9:02

sure your bed's made. I don't want to hear the cops looking

9:04

for you. Don't bring no officers here. And

9:07

that's how I would have greeted you. I

9:09

was

9:09

an addict. I became a heroin

9:11

addict in here. I needed

9:13

to get my drugs. And if you

9:15

have some canteen or something, and I didn't have it, I

9:17

was taking it. You know, that's

9:20

what I

9:21

did. For many years I did that.

9:24

Would you have classified yourself as a bully?

9:26

Yes, I would have.

9:29

I really appreciate you talking about being a bully because I

9:31

swear out of all the stories you've done, nobody ever talks

9:33

about it. Somehow they were never the bully,

9:35

even though they probably were. This

9:37

is something I've always wanted to ask a bully. When

9:39

you see somebody getting... Next to a former bully. Former

9:42

bully. Sorry. Back

9:45

then when you were a bully and you saw

9:47

somebody being hurt and they were crying or asking

9:50

for mercy or help, and

9:52

you would just watch, what was the feeling

9:54

you had inside? Tower

9:57

control.

9:59

what I felt.

10:03

You know, even in my crime, I

10:05

was the bully. You know, I led four

10:07

other people into hurting an innocent

10:10

girl and she

10:12

cried and she begged and

10:15

I laughed and I felt so empowered.

10:17

I felt so much of control. I felt

10:20

like a leader just to have another human

10:22

being like

10:24

fearful of you. That was powerful to

10:26

me. Yeah. And there's nothing that person could

10:28

have said. Nothing. Absolutely. There

10:30

is nothing

10:32

nobody could have said to me.

10:34

I look back in all the people that are harmed

10:37

and hurt and I feel bad about

10:39

it. I heard a story once a few years back.

10:42

Somebody went to a sap building here. It's where they do

10:44

like victims impact,

10:46

parenting. The girl came in there and was like,

10:49

I just came back to prison and there's this girl here and

10:52

I'm so scared of her. You know, she was my roommate

10:55

and she stole my fan and she went

10:57

and sold it and I'm just so scared if I see her,

10:59

what she'll do to me and the

11:01

person at the time was like,

11:03

who are you talking about? And she said, my AKA

11:05

was Loca and she said, Loca,

11:09

that hurts me that I

11:12

caused so much pain to people. You know,

11:14

it hurts me a lot. Did you remember

11:17

her? I did not remember her.

11:19

There were so many things I did to people.

11:21

I mean, I've fought people. I've

11:23

cut almost a lady's ear off just to get her

11:26

jewelry because she had a diamond earring

11:28

and the connection or somebody wanted it. You know,

11:30

that's what I did for many years.

11:33

I did that a lot of years.

11:36

And how did it feel when you heard that story

11:38

that a woman was afraid of you?

11:40

It made me sad. It made me think

11:43

about it. It made me not

11:45

want to have no more stories like that. No, even talking

11:47

about it now, it's like, I don't

11:50

like that person. It's the truth. It's

11:53

who I was and it's hurtful

11:55

to hear that.

12:06

My name is Grace Coleman. I've

12:08

been here one year as

12:11

of a couple weeks ago and

12:14

I've been down for almost three years. I'm

12:17

here on a DUI case.

12:20

I got second degree murder, 21 years

12:22

to life. And how old are you?

12:25

I'm 24.

12:28

I was in school at Santa Barbara

12:31

and the pandemic hit so that I

12:33

moved home and I was

12:35

doing everything online. And

12:37

all of a sudden we had all this free time to

12:39

just do, you know,

12:41

still be living in our college towns with the

12:44

drinking and the drugs and whatever,

12:45

but having no really

12:47

sensitive responsibility. And

12:50

for

12:50

me, just completely

12:52

kind of lost my way. So

12:55

yeah, life was normal until

12:57

it wasn't.

13:02

Is this your first time in prison? My first time

13:04

in prison. Yes. When I first

13:06

got here, people would see me and they

13:08

would automatically assume, oh, like

13:10

DUI case. And I'm like, yep. They

13:14

didn't hit you with like credit card

13:16

fraud, EDD. They make bets, right? So

13:18

I was working in the kitchen and I guess all of

13:20

them started being like, okay, she's

13:22

either one of those pretty bitches that killed

13:24

her boyfriend or she's

13:27

here on a DUI case and they're making bets on

13:29

it. And I come out one day and they're like,

13:31

so what are you here for? There's

13:34

a certain like stereotype around DUI

13:36

cases that, you know, maybe we think that we shouldn't

13:38

be here that you just kind of have

13:40

to break

13:41

the barriers with. We're all here for

13:44

something that we did, whether,

13:46

you know, I took a knife and stabbed someone

13:48

or I got behind the wheel of a vehicle

13:50

while severely intoxicated. I

13:54

went through a pretty gnarly

13:56

experience when I first got here. I

13:59

think it's kind of your typical.

13:59

what people get

14:02

scared about when... Can you tell us about it? Yeah,

14:04

yeah. So, um, I got here and, um, when, when

14:06

you first get here, and

14:12

especially not coming to prison before,

14:14

you don't really know what to expect, right? You

14:18

don't know what rights you have.

14:24

When Grace walked into the room, she

14:26

was carrying this little notebook, and

14:29

turns out it was a journal.

14:31

Yep, and in it was a story that Grace wrote about the

14:34

very first bunkie she had when she arrived

14:36

at CCWF. So

14:37

we asked Grace to read the story

14:39

to us. Actually, it's really a journal

14:41

entry about something that happened to Grace

14:44

when she was in reception, which is the first

14:46

place you go to when you arrive here for the first time, and

14:49

she was assigned to share a cell with another

14:51

new arrival, who was, of course, a total

14:53

stranger.

14:56

Her episode started in the happy heights of a good high, but

14:58

soon led down the pathway of paranoia into

15:00

the dumps of depression.

15:02

In those moments, I was the enemy.

15:05

She would grab me, punch the bunks, bombard me

15:07

with schizophrenic uncertainty.

15:10

Moaning and masturbating all afternoon long, she

15:12

would go through the motions of her mental illness

15:14

controlling her. The

15:16

vicious cycle continued for hours on end.

15:19

The happy heights would include moments of mysterious

15:21

communications with the ghosts in my past. She

15:24

would write letters to my great-aunt, my grandmother,

15:27

my great-grandmother. I'd catch her laying

15:29

happily in giggly

15:30

conversation with one of the voices in

15:32

her head. When

15:34

I was curious enough to ask her who she was speaking

15:36

to, she would smile and say, your mother.

15:42

She convinced herself at some point, even me, that

15:44

my ancestors were looking after me inside

15:46

the cell and wanted me to know I was going to be okay.

15:50

Talking to my ancestors was her way of making

15:52

peace from the moaning miseries of the nights

15:54

before. It

15:57

was like waking up hungover, attempting

15:59

to find your phone. in the aftermath of last

16:01

night's madness. I reached up

16:03

to God asking him, why this test? This

16:11

whole prison situation has definitely been

16:13

full of fear for me. What

16:15

are the things that you're most fearful of? I

16:19

mean, sometimes

16:21

I get fearful of just

16:23

the way that I talk. I definitely

16:25

have that

16:26

Valley Girl whatever. So

16:28

I think that I almost feel like

16:31

better

16:31

putting on a front or

16:34

being someone else in order to protect myself

16:36

from that vulnerability of having that. Because sometimes

16:39

it's like,

16:39

I'll just start talking in a group and people

16:41

are like, oh.

16:43

So I've

16:46

definitely put on different masks and different

16:48

fronts of trying to be someone I'm

16:50

not

16:51

in jail and in here and just

16:53

kind of keeping to myself and things like that

16:55

in order to prevent myself

16:57

from being bullied or from being

17:00

vulnerable and just kind of a way

17:02

of protecting myself.

17:07

You said prison would be terrifying.

17:10

You couldn't do it. Is it terrifying?

17:12

It's not.

17:15

It's not because I'm around

17:19

so many amazing women who

17:24

my dad was reminding me of

17:26

this. Right now, prison is my

17:29

career. Right now, prison is

17:32

my life. And just like no matter where you are

17:34

in life, it's what

17:35

you make it.

17:40

Do you think part of thinking about it being terrifying

17:42

was physical fear or

17:44

the fear of all of a sudden your life

17:47

being not at all what you expected

17:49

and looking at time stretching out ahead of you

17:51

and trying to figure out how do I

17:53

make my life now?

17:55

Definitely a little bit of both. It was the

17:57

physical fear. I mean, I think when.

19:59

getting offended when you call it home? You

20:02

know, some people, they

20:05

view home as their family.

20:08

And so when you refer

20:10

to this place as, oh, this is my home, or

20:13

I'm going back to the house, or I'm going back home after work,

20:15

they look at it as it

20:17

triggers them because they're like, that's not where my family

20:20

is. That's not my home.

20:23

And I understand that, but as

20:25

someone who was

20:26

professionally homeless before I came to

20:28

Chowchilla, I understand that

20:30

home, for me, is where my heart is.

20:35

Professionally homeless. I hopped

20:38

freight trains for almost a decade

20:39

before I came to Chowchilla.

20:42

I've been back and forth across the United

20:43

States more times than I can even count. And

20:46

do you think living that way prepared

20:48

you in some way to be in prison? Like, were there

20:50

helpful things that you learned that you could

20:53

adapt to life in prison, or was

20:55

it more detrimental? Well,

20:57

I learned how to budget money really well. I

20:59

learned how to survive with just

21:01

myself and my dog on 20 bucks a

21:03

week. And so living

21:05

here, living off of Canteen, well, now

21:08

it's a little bit more expensive, but

21:10

you learn how to budget, and you

21:12

do learn how to live small. My

21:15

backpack was generally 25 to 30 pounds, but

21:19

that's just because my life was in there. And if

21:21

you're hopping freight trains, you now have

21:23

to run with all of those things, or

21:26

throw it, or catch it, or whatever. It's

21:30

not worth it.

21:30

How do the lifestyle change

21:33

from being a hobo

21:36

to being a prisoner?

21:39

The biggest change was

21:41

the walls. I

21:44

mean, I can say this, this is kept to

21:46

me sane, is that right outside

21:49

of Chowchilla, or outside the CCWS,

21:52

we have the freight lines that run by, so I still

21:54

hear the trains. I

21:57

could hear a train engine coming from a mile away. So

21:59

even... went silent and the the horns

22:02

not going off I can still hear the engines because

22:04

it's really close I

22:07

can hear the horns and we have the beautiful

22:09

scenery out on the main yard at the

22:11

mountains

22:11

and when it snows it's just breathtaking

22:15

and then when it rains too like the

22:17

smell of the wet earth and especially

22:20

the smell of rust will just take me right back

22:22

to it

22:24

so

22:25

that kind of keeps me from just being

22:27

locked into this space

22:31

having all of those memories

22:33

and those stories that even

22:35

when I get depressed even when I'm feeling like

22:37

stuck and I'm getting claustrophobic I can

22:39

just kind of go back in my mind and

22:41

think about those times when

22:43

I was out and I was free so

22:46

even though my body may be incarcerated

22:48

my mind and my

22:49

spirit really aren't

22:52

hmm so if you

22:54

really do seem to have um

22:58

grasp this idea that home is where you are absolutely

23:01

yeah

23:03

a lot of times I'll sit there in the morning I'll watch the sun

23:05

come up and it's really just seen anything

23:08

other than someone in blue seeing anything

23:10

other than someone in green seeing anything other than these

23:12

buildings

23:14

so I'll sit and I'll face away from the prison

23:17

and I'll just

23:17

watch the sun come up over the road

23:19

and with the geese and a little

23:21

grass you know eating or whatever and

23:23

it's nice and it brings me comfort

23:27

my biggest habit that I had when I first got locked

23:29

up is when I would lay down to go to

23:31

sleep at night I would rock myself back and forth

23:34

and it would to me it would mimic the feeling

23:37

of being on a train and it would help me fall

23:39

asleep

23:40

I still do it

23:42

it's just kind of like it's

23:44

more jerky it's not comforting

23:46

and swaying at all it's like just a jerky motion

23:48

yeah and you still do that yes

23:51

still do it and it mimics

23:54

the same feeling that I got when I would

23:56

lay down on train

24:01

We're going to take a short break. When we

24:03

come back, we'll hear more about what

24:06

life is like at CCWF.

24:09

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24:11

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24:13

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24:33

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24:36

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24:38

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24:39

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27:27

I hear these cells, I hear these cells a-calling,

27:30

they hollerin', we really want your body,

27:33

as I'm waiting on, can Bursa come and duck this?

27:36

My work ethic

27:38

is so impressive, from the shoe to her

27:40

boots, don't bet it gives me, I'm a beast,

27:43

I'm unleashed. Good as a rapper

27:46

and she's pretty good.

27:47

Yeah, and you get a sense of her energy from

27:49

listening to her, you know, like she's very wound

27:52

up and you feel like she's just this spring that's gonna go bup-bup-bup-bup-bup-bup.

27:56

My name is Carmela Mose, I've been incarcerated

27:59

in the California.

27:59

justice system since 18.

28:03

I started off at this prison, got kicked out,

28:05

went to VSP. When VSP shut down I went to

28:07

CIW, got kicked out and came back here. So

28:09

how long you been locked up? 20

28:11

years. Why is your name good and you getting kicked

28:13

out of all these prisons? Because

28:14

I aspire to be good. I

28:16

aspire, I have my defects of course as does everybody

28:19

else, but I aspire to be good.

28:21

I was interested in the fact that good

28:23

has spent time both at CCWF

28:26

and the other place that you and I go to on

28:28

a regular which is CIW near

28:31

LA. Yeah I mean there's such different places.

28:33

Night and day. I

28:34

mean CIW is smaller, there's

28:37

grass and trees around, it's

28:39

closer to the you know the town where

28:41

it's situated and I think it's fair to

28:43

say that it's more integrated into society.

28:46

True, I can agree with that.

28:49

So a lot of the people that we met CIW

28:51

had been here and they talked about

28:53

how grateful they were to be at CIW versus

28:56

here. If you could would you

28:58

go back to CIW? I

29:01

think

29:02

at the time I was there

29:04

it's so close to the city and it feels so free

29:06

that I wasn't ready in my rehabilitation

29:09

to accept the street

29:11

being so close to me.

29:14

On the main yard you can look out and the city's

29:16

right there you see the street lights, you see

29:18

the cars going by and here you don't see

29:20

none of that it's the almond field we don't

29:22

see out. It

29:26

surprised me that how much it disturbed me to be

29:28

so close to somebody's community and

29:31

I wasn't

29:31

ready to be.

29:33

Like what sorts of feelings did it bring up? Just

29:36

how safe am I really? What

29:39

kind of problems would I experience in

29:41

the community that could lead me back to prison?

29:44

Interesting I thought you were gonna say it made you long

29:47

to be out there. It made me concerned.

29:50

Do you still feel that way? Yes. So

29:54

does it feel emotionally better

29:56

to be in a place where you can't see the community?

29:58

To avoid

29:59

life

30:01

to accept life? No. I need more

30:04

life experience. That's going to give me

30:06

the ultimate answers to

30:08

my question, am I safe enough to return

30:10

back in society?

30:11

Are you safe enough

30:14

as far as

30:15

have you changed your life or

30:17

has society itself changed?

30:20

If you're asking for society, hell.

30:22

Good question, because that's what I'm hearing all the time. People

30:25

are super disrespectful out there and I have a problem

30:27

with my space and I say

30:29

please and thank you and excuse me and

30:32

it doesn't get me anywhere.

30:38

It was really interesting to hear a good voice

30:40

change here. Her whole body

30:42

got really tense and she started talking so fast.

30:45

It's hard to follow her. I

30:47

think she's talking about getting triggered and

30:50

that's what we're hearing in her voice. I

30:53

think a lot of people in prison have that concern

30:56

that when they get out,

30:59

are they going to face the same type of

31:01

challenges that got

31:03

them in prison in the first place because

31:06

people change

31:07

but a lot of that shit is still in them.

31:10

I think it's actually a really honest and brave

31:12

thing to talk about.

31:14

Definitely.

31:16

I don't want to be the person who's psyched out fighting

31:18

in a thrifty line because I want a triple

31:21

scoop of whatever they have out there now

31:23

and somebody cuts me and is like well

31:25

fuck you, I don't give a fuck about how you feel or what

31:27

you got going on. How am I going to handle that situation?

31:32

I'm very violent.

31:33

I can be very violent. Still?

31:41

I think now I'm interested

31:44

in defending myself. What

31:46

I'm learning is when I do

31:48

have a threat and I do feel like I

31:50

need to protect myself to not engage because

31:53

from my trauma I'm already the first one to

31:55

hit because I want to get

31:58

it done as fast as possible.

32:00

So I'm working on, instead

32:02

of engaging, retreating,

32:04

stepping back, you know,

32:07

making sure that I can just defend myself to

32:09

where I feel safe, that I'm not going to get fucked up too bad

32:11

and remove myself when the

32:14

appropriate

32:14

time manifests itself.

32:19

My work ethic

32:21

is so impressive from the shoe to

32:23

where boots don't bet against me. I'm a beast.

32:26

I'm unleashed. Y'all can chain me. My,

32:30

vacays and EOP. No shame cause

32:32

they not taking me. They not

32:34

even talking about us. I

32:36

can't help it. I'm not leaving you alone.

32:40

I'm not alone. I'm

32:42

not alone. I'm not

32:45

alone. I'm not alone.

32:49

I'm not alone. What? Cool,

32:51

right? Man,

32:52

she did her shit. She did.

32:54

So Good recently won a contest and the hip

32:57

hop artist LaCray, Erlon, who actually

32:59

does a lot to

33:00

support prisons, he's been into San Quentin and

33:02

stuff, and he came in and produced that song

33:04

with her and it's been stuck in my ears

33:07

all week.

33:07

Yes? I'm not happy for one too

33:09

long.

33:40

My name is Eunique Bishop. I've been locked

33:43

up for 16 years. I mean, I've been

33:45

through the storm in here. Like

33:47

where everybody goes down for one fight

33:50

and the police don't know who did it. So

33:52

we all going to jail. I didn't been

33:54

to the hole for things that didn't

33:56

even have anything to do with me.

34:00

Yannique is the one who was given the Beyonce

34:02

treatment to Amazing Grace at the top

34:04

of the episode.

34:05

Yes she was and I think that kind of says everything

34:08

you need to know about her, right? She's lively,

34:11

bouncy, but at the same time

34:13

she's been in prison for quite a while and she's

34:15

seen it all. I done had

34:17

a roommate that got butt naked before,

34:20

like basically banging on the door just so she

34:22

can go to EOP which is the crazy place

34:25

because she wanted to be with her girlfriend. Then

34:27

I'm like wait, wait, wait, what's going on?

34:30

You can't do that. You about to get all of us

34:32

in trouble, you know? They don't care. A

34:35

lot of these women are just broken. They

34:38

feel like this is what the judge

34:40

said so this is where I'm going to be and

34:42

this is what I'm going to do. I don't care.

34:46

One of the things that says CCWF apart

34:48

from other prisons we've been to is

34:50

the way people are housed.

34:52

Yes. So at San Quentin and

34:54

CIW, that woman's prison near LA,

34:57

most people are housed in a two-person cell.

35:00

So there's one bunk bed, one sink,

35:02

one toilet. Yeah, but here

35:05

at CCWF people

35:07

live in eight-man rooms

35:10

or eight-person cells. So each room has

35:12

four bunk beds and a shared bathroom

35:15

and shower.

35:18

Would you say that the four other women that you live with,

35:20

do you consider them friends or acquaintances

35:23

or are they people you would go to

35:25

with a problem

35:26

or do you kind of keep your distance?

35:29

I don't keep my distance because

35:32

I'm actually a people's person. I

35:34

laugh a lot. I play a lot

35:36

and I don't hold grudges for too long.

35:40

I have been in a room with them for some

35:43

time now and we have a good

35:44

relationship.

35:47

We said earlier that hygiene is a

35:50

big deal at CCWF.

35:52

Really, it seems like it is at every

35:54

prison. Yep. So it's no surprise

35:56

that pretty much everyone had a

35:58

story about something that had happened. happened in

36:00

one of the showers that they all share.

36:02

I

36:04

lived with a lady who who

36:07

didn't like to say showers, didn't

36:09

like to shave, brush her teeth, and

36:14

I kept telling myself like I'm not trying to be controlling

36:16

but something has to give because days

36:19

have passed and this

36:22

cannot be happening like you got the whole

36:24

room smelling.

36:26

I'm like um when was

36:28

the last time you took a shower and she

36:31

was like I took one two days ago

36:33

and

36:34

I said no you didn't take one

36:36

two days ago and she was like well

36:39

I'm going back to sleep.

36:42

I looked at her and then I looked at my other

36:44

roommates I was like something gotta get

36:46

you know I don't know what it is but

36:49

something has to get. I was

36:51

going back into my old negative thoughts

36:54

you know because I was like do I gotta throw a bucket of

36:56

water with bleach in it on her or what

36:59

but then I'm like I could think of a

37:01

different way to do

37:02

it.

37:04

So when

37:06

she woke up or whatever I talked to her I said

37:09

is it possible you need help to shower

37:11

because she's a big lady. I said I'll

37:14

help you and my roommates was like you will help her. I'm

37:16

like we either gonna help her or we y'all

37:18

want to smell this. So

37:20

she

37:22

said you can help

37:24

me but you ain't gonna like what you see. So

37:31

I was like wait what she was like

37:33

I'm a shower I'm gonna do it myself because

37:36

I don't want nobody to see what I got

37:38

right. So I'm like alright. The

37:42

lady was like okay but I

37:44

still need a little bit of your assistance

37:46

right.

37:48

So I washed her

37:51

back off and you know whatever

37:53

and she said this is what I didn't want

37:56

to show you and she turned around and

37:58

literally her stomach was passing.

39:59

a shower before 7am. What's

40:03

the reasoning behind that?

40:04

I almost couldn't tell you but I

40:06

mean it's really easy for people

40:08

to see you as dirty.

40:09

Being a white girl

40:11

in prison there's all of these stereotypes

40:14

that are kind of thrown on you almost immediately of being

40:16

like that like nerdy white girl

40:18

and what do you mean? I think

40:20

it's just like a term like that people just kind

40:22

of throw around. It's

40:24

basically just like if you don't shower wake

40:26

up and shower at like a certain time then

40:30

you're like looked at like as

40:31

you know dirty or so literally

40:33

that you're like a lazy dirty white girl. Yeah.

40:37

Every time you go outside depending

40:40

on what room you're in but every time you go outside you're

40:42

expected to shower right when you

40:44

come back in from the outside because of the

40:46

worry of

40:47

bugs or germs or anything

40:49

like that. When you think about life at home

40:51

it's like you

40:52

you know maybe you go out to walk the dog

40:54

or you come back and you're not always jumping

40:57

in the shower right away like it's the end

40:59

of the world if you're not so those

41:02

are expectations that

41:03

are definitely set on us very

41:05

early on. Where do you think that comes

41:06

from this real focus

41:09

on hygiene and cleanliness?

41:11

I think definitely in prison we feel like

41:13

we don't have

41:13

control over many many things so

41:16

having the control at least over

41:19

you know the space in the room

41:21

what people do I think

41:22

it has something to do with

41:25

you know wanting to kind of have that control

41:27

over something when

41:28

so much else feels a lot of

41:30

our control. I

41:33

think it just has to do with being in such a confined space

41:35

that you try to have these

41:37

rules to balance it out as much as

41:39

you can.

41:44

We had this person named Shane

41:47

who lived in our room.

41:49

This is Charity the former train

41:51

hopper she had a shower story for us

41:53

too. Erline

41:53

everyone's got one

41:55

we gotta write a book about these. I

41:56

don't know can I write a book about

41:58

women showers?

41:59

We can.

42:04

And Shane was a dope fiend

42:07

and did not last very

42:09

long anywhere because they were very

42:11

disorganized. It's a nice way to

42:13

put it. He was a mess. He's

42:15

a trans man. There

42:18

was one time Shane took a

42:20

shower and the next person went to go in behind

42:22

him and there was shit in the shower.

42:25

They were like, what the fuck is this shit in the shower?

42:28

We go through the whole room like, did you shit in the shower? Did you shit

42:30

in the shower? We knew who shit in the shower. We

42:32

know it's Shane, right? And so he's

42:34

like, no, I wouldn't do that. What the fuck? And we're like, well

42:36

Shane, you're the last person in the shower,

42:38

first and foremost. And second

42:40

of all, none of us would do that. My

42:43

roommate, Lele, she's like, Shane, I'm serious.

42:46

Get the fuck off your bed right now and go clean the shower

42:48

or I'm gonna beat your ass. And he's like, fine, fucking

42:50

bitches. He's like, cussing us out, having

42:52

a whole mental breakdown. But

42:55

he gets down

42:55

off his bunk and he cleans the shower. He comes back out

42:57

and coming from someone who

43:00

is professionally homeless, like I

43:02

have really decent standards of cleanliness.

43:07

And so I'm watching Shane. He finishes

43:09

cleaning, comes up the shower, takes

43:11

the shower

43:11

shoes, puts him up, gets right back on his bed.

43:15

He's wearing the exact same outfit

43:17

and the exact same socks. Like he didn't even

43:19

take his socks off to clean the shitty

43:22

shower before he got back on his bed. And

43:24

I'm just sitting here and I'm just all I can see is the socks.

43:27

Like I have blinders on. All I could see is these

43:29

shit socks

43:30

on the bed.

43:34

And I very calmly just say, Shane,

43:39

did you wear those socks in the shower when

43:41

you cleaned the shower?

43:43

He's like, yeah, what the fuck is the problem? I'm

43:45

just like,

43:46

Shane, if you don't take those

43:48

fucking socks off your feet

43:51

right now off your bed,

43:54

I'm gonna beat you. He

43:56

sits up, he's all huffy, takes the socks off, he throws them on the

43:58

floor.

43:59

And so now the socks are in the middle of the one

44:02

area, which is technically the middle of the kitchen. And

44:04

my friend, Lele, is looking at him and he's like, Shane,

44:08

did you just take those shitty socks off

44:10

of your feet and throw them on the floor?

44:13

Like you couldn't even pick them up and put in the laundry basket.

44:16

The next unlock, my

44:18

roommate, she goes to the cop shop and there was

44:20

this officer working, his

44:23

name's Ramirez. He's no longer with

44:25

us, but he was a special kind of individual and

44:27

not the cool kind. And she goes up to him and

44:29

she's like, I need a bed move. He's

44:31

like, what? She's like, he's

44:33

shit in my shower, I need a bed

44:36

move. He's like, what's his name? Seriously,

44:39

he was out the room that night cause it was like,

44:42

at that point I was like, literally I'm going to beat you if you

44:44

don't,

44:44

the sex.

44:48

Nice. I know this is a funny story,

44:50

but it does point out the fact that

44:53

in prison life, there is a code of conduct

44:56

and people, I guess

44:58

gotta know their place. Right, right.

45:01

And what's expected of them?

45:03

Yeah, pretty much. And I know that could sound

45:05

really oppressive and I'm sure it is,

45:08

but over time, it seems like for some

45:10

people, that code of

45:12

conduct actually becomes

45:13

reassuring. Yeah, I think that's

45:15

the real danger of prison. It's a tightly

45:18

controlled environment. And if you're in

45:20

it too long for some people, it

45:22

gets hard to leave.

45:25

I've been incarcerated so long, the fear

45:27

of getting out. I

45:29

don't know that world. So I'm so fearful

45:31

what that looks like.

45:33

You know what, I feel safe in here.

45:36

This is Ponce, the former bully that

45:38

we heard at the top of the show. And out of all

45:40

these women that we met, she's the one

45:42

who's actually getting out like really soon.

45:45

So you're saying you're actually nervous about

45:47

getting out that you feel safer in here. Do

45:49

you still feel that way? Do you still feel safer in

45:51

here? I

45:55

am really trying

45:56

to grasp

45:57

my mind out about parole now. I'm

46:00

excited, but

46:02

I'm very fearful, if I could be honest. It's

46:05

like

46:05

the same thing I could describe in me being a little 18-year-old,

46:07

scared girl coming to prison. I

46:09

didn't know this world, but now it's

46:11

the same thing. I'm gonna get out a 43-year-old woman,

46:15

and it's a world I don't know.

46:19

You just said this was your home for 25 years, and

46:21

we were talking to some other women about

46:24

how people get offended sometimes, if you call

46:26

a prison home. How do you think

46:29

about that?

46:31

Well, you know what? For some people

46:34

here, we do make it our home. You

46:37

know, we have a canteen.

46:39

I would call it my store.

46:41

We have a room, I'd call it my home.

46:43

You go to the library, you

46:46

go to the park, the yard. You know, you

46:48

just get inventive with it. You know, and if you

46:50

have a sentence, it's gonna be your home for

46:52

a long time, and then you

46:54

get comfortable.

46:55

Like the room I was in, I made it

46:57

beautiful.

47:00

I don't get offended. It was my home for a lot

47:02

of years.

47:12

Erlon, I gotta say,

47:15

going to CCWF

47:17

was an amazing experience. Yes,

47:19

it was. Meeting a lot of new

47:21

individuals, adding a lot

47:23

of voices to the show. I know.

47:26

Just giving them the platform to

47:28

do them.

47:28

Well, it's just so cool. You show up at a place, you don't

47:31

know anyone, they don't know you, you have no idea

47:33

what to expect. And we were really

47:35

able to connect in a meaningful way.

47:37

We had a motley crew.

47:39

We had a motley crew all around, but

47:41

they were so poetic and insightful. And

47:44

I think in some ways, some of the most honest

47:46

stories we've heard about prison life. We

47:48

definitely met a few

47:51

different people with very different

47:53

perspectives. We gotta get back there soon.

47:55

Indeed we do. I

48:00

hate you to the score of ten. Ha

48:03

ha ha. Enough, suckaboo.

48:05

Ear Hustle is produced by me, Erlon

48:07

Woods, Naju Poor, Amy

48:09

Standen, Bruce Wallace, and

48:12

Rassan Ranamarathon

48:14

Thomas. Shubnam Sigmon

48:16

is our managing producer. The producing

48:18

team inside San Quentin includes Steve

48:21

Brooks, Darrell Sadiq Davis, Tony

48:23

DeTrinidad, and Tom Nguyen. The

48:26

inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya.

48:29

Erlon Woods sound designs and engineers

48:31

the show with help from Fernando Arruda,

48:34

Rashid Zinaman, and Darrell Sadiq Davis.

48:36

Thanks

48:43

to acting warden Smith and Lieutenant Berry

48:45

at San Quentin and warden

48:48

Dela Cruz at CCWF.

48:49

And also big thanks to this

48:51

woman here. Hello, my

48:54

name is Lieutenant Monique Williams from

48:56

the Central California Women's Facility.

48:59

I am the public information officer,

49:01

the administrative assistant to warden Anissa

49:04

Dela Cruz, and I approve this

49:06

episode. This episode

49:08

was made possible by the

49:11

Jez Trust, working to amplify the voices, vision, and power

49:13

of communities that

49:15

are transforming the justice system. For

49:17

more information about this episode,

49:22

check out our show notes on Ear Hustle's website,

49:24

EarHustleSQ.org.

49:25

You can also find out more about

49:28

the show on all the socials at EarHustleSQ. And do you

49:30

want more Ear

49:31

Hustle? Subscribe to Ear Hustle

49:33

Plus. We've got bonus episodes

49:35

and live chats where we get

49:37

to chat it up with the listeners about the

49:39

show. Erlon, I've always wanted to do that.

49:41

I'm just super excited. Thank you. Thank

49:44

you. Thank

49:45

you. Thank you. Thank you.

49:48

Thank you. Thank you. Thank

49:50

you. Thank you. Thank

49:52

you. Thank you. No, I can't wait. I'm

49:55

excited. I can't wait to do that. I'm

49:57

super excited about this. I did it recently. It

49:59

was fun.

49:59

And

50:02

please don't forget to sign up for our newsletter,

50:04

The Lowdown, where you can see photos

50:07

and other extra content about the episode.

50:09

Subscribe to that at EarHustleSQ.com

50:12

slash newsletter. And while you're at

50:14

it, leave us a review on Apple

50:17

Podcasts, please. This

50:19

is a big help for the show, and we really

50:21

appreciate your words.

50:22

EarHustle is a proud

50:24

member of Radiotopia from PRX,

50:27

a network of independent, creator-owned,

50:28

and creator-supported podcasts.

50:31

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia.fm.

50:35

I'm Nigel Poore. I'm Erlon Woods. Thanks

50:37

for listening. Thanks for listening. Hey,

51:09

Natch. Yes? Did you

51:11

like that song?

51:12

You

51:15

know I loved it, and I'm so thankful

51:17

that Lecrae gave us permission to use the

51:19

version he produced with Good. Good looking

51:21

out, Lecrae.

51:22

Thank you so much. And I know it's

51:24

late, but can we thank you for that time you came into San

51:26

Quentin all

51:26

those years ago? It's so wonderful to meet

51:28

you in person. Really appreciate it.

51:32

Yeah. Thanks again, Lecrae. We definitely appreciate

51:34

you. Thank you. And it's crazy. We

51:36

threw out a Hail Mary. We reached out

51:38

to him on social, and he responded.

51:41

What a good man. Whew.

51:44

Episode number six. Number

51:46

six. That's not very impressive. Radiotopia.

51:59

you