0:00

This is just going to take a minute. You wanna say hello?

0:02

Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Can you? Nice of course.

0:04

Hello. My name is Isabel, and

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I'm serving years old, and I hope

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you enjoyed the punk lost. Thank you.

0:16

Are they? And welcome to Emperor's

0:18

of Rome, a Roman History podcast

0:21

from Latrobe University. I'm

0:23

your host, Matt Smith. And with me today

0:25

is doctor Christopher Gribbin, and

0:27

adjunct lecturer in classic Satellite

0:29

University. This is

0:31

episode CCIV, Octavians

0:34

and War. Part of

0:36

the making of Octavian was the victories

0:39

he had early in his career. He

0:41

defeated his rivals, conquered territory,

0:44

and united the Senate behind him whether

0:46

they liked it or not. One

0:48

of these territories was Illyrian

0:50

which he conducted campaigns during the quiet

0:53

years before his final battles against

0:55

Cleopatra and Anthony. It

0:57

is perhaps in Illyrian we see Octavian's

0:59

display his greatest acts of bravery

1:02

if not

1:02

ability. Here's Christopher Gribbin.

1:05

Between thirty five and thirty three BC,

1:07

Octavian conducted a couple of campaigns

1:10

in Illyrian, which is the area as it is

1:12

today, mostly Croatia, that eastern

1:14

coast of the Adriatic. And

1:17

he conducted a couple campaigns to

1:21

bring into line essentially the people who

1:23

were living there, consolidate Roman

1:25

power and authority in the area as

1:28

well as, you know, extend it a little bit and

1:30

to bring himself in some, you

1:32

know, some cash and various other things as

1:34

well. Mhmm. And

1:36

takes place at what is, I think, a really

1:39

interesting period in his life.

1:41

So thirty six BC,

1:44

Octavian has just dealt

1:46

with six Pompey has been

1:48

causing all kinds of trouble with the grain

1:50

supply and various other things in in

1:52

Sicily. He

1:55

has also just got rid of leopidas,

1:57

so one of the three triumphs is leopidas is

1:59

being disposed off at this point. Mhmm. And

2:03

there's a growing sense

2:05

of rivalry between Octavian and Mark

2:07

Anthony's. They're not actually fighting

2:09

each other at this point that's yet to come.

2:12

But certainly there's some buying

2:14

for power that's happening. But at this particular

2:16

time, Mark Anthony is off

2:18

with Cleopatra in Egypt In

2:21

thirty six BC, he has

2:23

an attempted campaign to

2:25

invade Parthia. That goes

2:27

very poorly. Octavians over

2:30

in Italy thinking, what am I gonna do?

2:32

And what he decides to do is to launch

2:34

a campaign into

2:35

Illyrian. And what is the status

2:38

of Illyria at this

2:39

point, what does it mean to the Roman

2:41

Empire? It's not part of the Roman Empire

2:43

strictly. The Romans have been mucking

2:45

around in there from two thirty BC

2:47

really. So they have

2:50

been going over there with military forces

2:53

relatively regularly. Rearranging

2:56

things, and then removing

2:58

the army, but maintaining a relationship.

3:01

It's not actually a province. It doesn't have a governor

3:03

as such. But

3:05

the Romans have established a series of

3:08

friendships as they like to call them with various

3:10

peoples that are living in that

3:12

area. Mhmm. So sometimes that

3:15

just purely a mutual aid

3:17

treaty. Sometimes those people

3:19

have to provide some sort of tribute

3:22

to the Romans. It varies

3:24

a bit. It's a patchwork of communities

3:26

living along the eastern coast

3:29

of the atriatic. It's important

3:31

to understand the geography of this area

3:33

in that there's a very tall

3:35

mountain range that Generic helps that runs

3:37

relatively close to the coast along

3:39

the East Angriatic end. There's only a

3:41

few places where you can pass

3:43

through that mountain range. A lot of points,

3:46

it's actually too hard to traverse. The

3:49

Romans prior to this haven't been too worried

3:51

about what's happening on the other side of

3:53

the mountains. They've really only been focusing

3:55

on the coast. But, yeah,

3:57

they do have series of relationships. And particularly

4:00

from about the middle of

4:02

the first century BC, there

4:04

seemed to have been quite a number of Roman

4:06

settlers moving into towns

4:09

along the coast there. There are

4:11

in fact number of towns that become Roman

4:13

colonies. Somewhere around

4:16

this period, somewhere between in the forties,

4:18

thirties, or twenties BC. And in most

4:20

cases, we can't actually narrow it down. So somewhere

4:23

sort of between fifty and twenty D. C. Mhmm.

4:25

They become Roman colonies. So whether they

4:28

actually have become colonies before Octavians

4:31

campaigns or was that come colonies after

4:33

Octavians campaigns, not entirely clear.

4:35

But either way, there's definitely Romans

4:37

living in a number of settlements, conducting

4:40

trade, you know, pursuing in various

4:42

ways prior to Octavians' venture,

4:45

and there may be some actual Roman colonies there

4:47

as

4:47

well. They've been heavily involved in the area.

4:49

Yeah. But they haven't officially turned it into a

4:51

Roman province at this point. And what is it

4:53

that pushes Octavian's to

4:55

launch this campaign intervene is there

4:58

something going on? In particular, the

5:01

Illyrian just revolting in general? Are

5:03

they not giving tribute? What's

5:04

happening? There's a number of

5:06

different theories that have been put forward. So we

5:08

have two main ancient sources for this. We have

5:10

Appian and Deocasius. Mhmm.

5:12

And Deo tells us that

5:15

some of the Illyrian tribes says they

5:17

openly revolted -- Mhmm. without going

5:19

into too much detail of exactly what that entailed.

5:21

But he does go on to explain

5:24

and Appian confirms this as well that

5:26

some of the Illyrian had been raiding some

5:29

of their neighbors, including some of the Roman

5:31

territory. We are

5:33

also told that some of them haven't been paying

5:35

Gribbin that they've owed. And

5:38

we also have the theory from another

5:40

ancient author of Laius Petakoulis who

5:43

tells us that Octavian's main motivation

5:45

was to keep his troops from being spoiled

5:47

by ice on this. Okay. But

5:50

there's been a number of modern theories that

5:52

have been proposed as well for reasons

5:54

that he might have invaded. One

5:56

of them was for Octavian to

5:58

win over the Roman populace, demonstrating

6:01

that you could be a successful military

6:03

leader with a key part of rising

6:06

to to prominence in Roman politics. So

6:08

this was a chance for Octavian to get

6:10

out there and show himself to be his great

6:12

victorious general. Similarly,

6:15

it's been suggested that he was trying to emulate

6:17

Julius Caesar's adopted father and someone

6:19

that he's traded on significantly

6:21

in terms of his earlier. And

6:24

so just as Julius, he's a heads off

6:26

to Gaul and conducts his campaign. Well, this

6:28

is Octavian's little version of that as

6:30

well, so that's also been suggested. And

6:32

it's also been thought that he may be trying to contrast

6:35

himself with Anthony. So Anthony's

6:37

over in the east. He's had

6:39

an unsuccessful successful campaign to invade partyes,

6:41

and here's Octavian's chance to have

6:44

a successful campaign, invading Illyria.

6:46

And in fact, what we're told by Appian

6:49

is that after the campaign

6:51

that Octavian informed the Senate that

6:53

he had free Italy from the savage tribes

6:55

that had so often raided it. And Appian

6:57

says that he explains this is by way

6:59

of contrast with Anthony slothfulness. Mhmm.

7:02

But there's definitely a little bit of that going on.

7:04

And it's even been suggested that it may in

7:07

fact be a little bit more than that

7:09

in that the East

7:11

Coast of the Adriatic has

7:14

often been used as a staging

7:16

post for military interventions either

7:19

for military invasions of Italy

7:21

or conversely for military

7:23

interventions into the Balkans. And

7:26

so it's been suggested that Octavian

7:28

may also have been keen to get

7:30

himself a foothold there either

7:33

to prevent Anthony from getting a foothold

7:35

dead and then invading Italy or because

7:38

was thinking to the future and the possibility of

7:41

making a move into the Balkans at some point into

7:43

engineer's territory. Exactly. Either

7:45

way, it could be useful to have strong

7:48

control of over that East

7:49

Coast, the Atriatic. It's probably a bit of all of

7:51

them. Yeah. Okay. Before we get any

7:53

further then, can we talk about the sources

7:56

then and and how are they treating the

7:57

events? Of the things we know about

7:59

Appian is that his account

8:02

seems to have drawn very heavily on Octavian's

8:04

own account -- -- campaign. That

8:07

gives us a really interesting perspective. We have some

8:09

sense of how Octavion was trying to spin that,

8:11

but it probably makes it slightly less

8:14

reliable than we might like. And certainly,

8:16

we know from other things about

8:18

Octavian is that he was never one to let

8:20

the truth get in the way of a good story. And,

8:23

you know, looking at Appian's account, it's

8:26

very notable how it portrays Octavian

8:28

as very good general, constantly taking

8:30

part in combat, leading the troops from the front

8:32

and being there the whole time,

8:35

even getting in it a couple of times. There's

8:37

this really interesting mix between portraying

8:40

him as sort of ruthlessly to

8:42

spelling enemies of Rome. And then also

8:44

showing great clemency towards other

8:46

people. And he kinda seems to switch between the

8:48

two of them. Mhmm. And there

8:50

seemed to have been a number of commanders

8:53

with Octavian. They don't get

8:55

a lot of mentions in

8:57

Appian, but we do get a mention of

8:59

a number of them in Dio. That makes Appian

9:01

in interesting, but perhaps not entirely

9:03

reliable narrator. Appian's

9:06

text is quite interesting in itself because he

9:08

talks about Roman his from

9:10

the point of view of different ethnicities,

9:13

essentially, and the the different ways that these

9:15

people came into the Roman empire. So the

9:17

Illyrian book an

9:20

appendix to the books on the Macedonians, which

9:22

we don't have anymore. But the Macedonians

9:25

bordered on the Illyrian down in the

9:27

Southeast. So it makes sense to lump

9:29

them together. But it

9:30

also tells us about the history

9:32

of interactions between Romans and Leary

9:34

and isn't it? That's right. Yes. It goes right back to the

9:36

third century basic when the Romans first

9:38

started interacting the Illyrian and

9:41

various wars that they had Yeah.

9:43

Okay. So just to give a bit more

9:45

context on on the Illyrian, we're

9:47

not talking about a united people.

9:50

Who identify themselves that have, you

9:52

know, a king of Illyrian or something like

9:54

that. This is the city territories or those

9:56

sort of things. Yeah. We often refer to

9:58

them as tribes. They seem to be slightly bigger

10:00

than traditional city state, but not necessarily

10:02

very large. What we find when we have

10:05

a look at Illyrian history is that it's constantly

10:07

changing. That we keep having references

10:09

to people being in different places and

10:11

sometimes territory gets bigger and sometimes

10:14

it gets smaller as they conquer their neighbors and

10:16

so on and so forth. But it's absolutely

10:18

not one united polity

10:21

with one leader it's it's a whole lot

10:23

of small communities divided

10:25

into a number of different tribes,

10:27

but each of those tribes, at least in some

10:29

of those cases, had multiple different political

10:32

units that made them up as well. If these

10:34

people had actually been able to band together, they

10:36

probably could have defeated the Roman army

10:38

that was coming

10:38

in. But because they're all dispersed in these little

10:41

kingdoms, they don't.

10:42

Yeah. Yeah. Each of those is often

10:44

looking out to their own advantage. So many of them

10:46

are happy to go over to Romans without much

10:48

of a fight, and in others of them put

10:50

up a big fight, but they don't have necessarily the manpower

10:52

to resist the Romans by themselves.

10:54

Okay. So what did Octavian's'

10:56

campaign look like then? Thirty five

10:58

BCA. He decides to launch his

11:00

campaign. What does he do? The first

11:02

campaign has a couple

11:04

of different strands to it. So there's

11:06

a naval campaign against the island. So there's

11:08

number of islands on the East Coast of the

11:10

Adriatic, which have fallen afoul

11:13

of the Romans for one reason or another, some of them

11:15

are conducting piratical raids on

11:17

shipping and that sort of thing. Mhmm. So he sorts

11:19

out with naval campaign, and then

11:21

he has a land campaign that heads inland

11:24

as well. And he himself leads

11:26

the land campaign, doesn't he? He does. That's right.

11:28

But according Swetonius. This is one of the two

11:30

campaigns against foreign enemies that Octavian

11:32

actually leads

11:33

himself. So it's it's a big deal from that point

11:35

of view.

11:36

Yeah. So where do they go? This

11:38

campaign goes against the

11:40

yapadays who are located

11:43

in today Croatia. They

11:46

apparently been raiding into

11:48

Aqualaya and to Guesto, which

11:50

is modern Trieste, towns

11:52

in what's the northeast of Italy. We're

11:54

told that the yapides that were located

11:57

on the coastal side of the mountains were relatively

11:59

easy to

12:00

conquer. But on the other side of

12:02

the mountains, it becomes much more challenging.

12:04

So

12:04

that's terrain related. Partly

12:07

well, first of all, Octavian and the army

12:09

need to get through the mountains. Mhmm.

12:11

And the route we think that they took

12:13

was starting at Cen on

12:15

the coast and then making

12:17

their way through. So there's a bit of a pass in

12:20

the mountains. It's not an easy pass to get through,

12:22

but it is relatively easy compared to

12:24

the others. And that's where they start to encounter

12:26

struggles already because as they start

12:28

moving inland, the yapotas

12:31

adapt something of a guerrilla tactics,

12:33

so they start filling trees to block the

12:35

path They're hiding in the forest

12:37

and then jumping out and attacking the

12:40

Roman army as it's moving through

12:42

and then retreating back into the forest.

12:45

So that already becomes a bit of a challenge,

12:47

and David has to deal with that.

12:49

But he makes his way through the mountains

12:52

till he gets to the CCIV town of the Yapides,

12:54

which is a place called Michelin, today

12:56

near town of Ogilent in Croatia.

12:59

Yeah. That's where a lay

13:01

siege to the main town, and that's where the the major

13:03

battle against the Appetis takes place.

13:05

Okay. So this is something

13:07

that Octavian doesn't come across very often.

13:09

Often hear about him going and doing

13:11

a siege at this point in his life.

13:13

What do the yapetus respond

13:15

to? I I guess they're given the chance to

13:18

surrender, but they don't. Yeah.

13:20

We're told that the yep it is have

13:23

three thousand warlike and well armed

13:25

youths. And they also

13:27

have a number of siege engines, which they

13:29

captured earlier in the forties

13:31

from British when he'd been fighting Mark

13:33

Anthony and Octavian in the area. A

13:35

walled city that they can retreat

13:38

behind, which is in in fact what they do.

13:40

The Romans managed to capture the

13:42

wall, and then the people

13:45

build a a wall inside that.

13:47

At this point, then we have the

13:50

Romans conducting additional

13:52

siege warfare. The Romans

13:54

build a mound. Near the walls and

13:56

then throw over a couple of bridges, four

13:59

bridges, in fact, to launch their way

14:01

into the city. Appian provides us

14:03

with quite a nice account. What we're

14:05

told is that some of the Illyrian, that's

14:07

the people from Michelin, ran it

14:09

from the Paripet to meet the Romans who were

14:11

crossing rooms that set up these bridges, and

14:13

the idea is that they can run across these bridges

14:16

onto the top of the city walls and fight. But

14:18

the Magellan's can run back at the docks.

14:20

Bridges work quite fine. So -- Yeah. --

14:22

so some of them are running across to meet the Romans

14:24

on the bridge, while others, unseen,

14:27

sought to undermine the bridges with their long spears.

14:30

They were much encouraged at seeing one bridge fall,

14:32

and the second one follow on top of it. When

14:34

a third one went down, a regular panic

14:36

overtook the room so that no one ventured

14:38

on the fourth bridge until Augustus,

14:41

Octavian, leapt down from the

14:43

tower and reproach them. As

14:45

they were not rouse to their duty by his words,

14:48

he sees the shield and sprang upon the

14:50

bridge himself. A gripper

14:52

and hero and hero is possible

14:54

Tiberius Illyrian Neuro, the father

14:57

of the future emperor Tiberius. So

14:59

a gripper and hero, two of the generals.

15:02

And one of his bodyguard, Luscious, and

15:04

Voles, ran with him. Only

15:06

these four and a few armor bearers.

15:09

He had almost crossed the bridge when the soldiers

15:12

overcome by shame rushed after

15:14

him in crowds. Then the

15:16

bridge being overweighted fell also,

15:18

and the men on it went downhill. Some

15:21

were killed and others were carried away with

15:23

broken bones. Augustus was injured

15:25

in the right leg and in both arms. Nevertheless,

15:28

he ascended the tower with his signals

15:30

forthwith and showed himself safe and sound

15:33

lest this may should arise from a report

15:35

of his death. In order that the enemy might

15:37

not fancy that he was going to give in and retire,

15:39

it began to construct new bridges. By

15:41

which means he struck Terra into the Matuleans

15:44

who thought that they were contending against an

15:46

unconquerable

15:47

will. So that's from Appian chapter

15:49

twenty of the Wow.

15:52

That is so unlike so

15:54

much that I know about Octavian's, to

15:56

be that dynamic, to be

15:59

leading so forcefully and

16:01

effectively. And I can't believe that

16:04

he wrote about the bridge collapsing

16:06

if it was based on his own account because

16:09

that just seems to be like a bit of an

16:11

aptness.

16:11

It does. These obviously weren't very well constructive

16:14

bridges, I gotta say. And yeah,

16:16

I I mean, there's a number things that don't

16:18

quite ring true about the whole account.

16:21

I find it hard to believe that it was really just

16:23

five men crossing across this

16:25

bridge against the entire Oh, it's very

16:27

cinematic. Yeah. It's it's very cinematic.

16:29

It's a wonderful story. Yeah. Octavian

16:32

leading from the front, like, earlier season

16:34

like Alexander the Great leading the forces

16:36

into battle shaming his men when they weren't

16:39

as brave as he

16:39

was.

16:40

Oh, man. Follow me. Follow me. Creek.

16:42

Creek. It

16:45

gets injured, but it gets back up again, and

16:47

I feel there's a number of reasons to doubt

16:49

a a number of elements of of this story.

16:52

Nah. That's all true. I want that to be true. It's

16:54

too good a story. It is too good a story. As

16:56

I say, Octavians never won to let the truth get

16:58

in the way of a good story.

16:59

Okay. So constructed more bridges.

17:01

It constructs more bridges at which point

17:03

the Illyrian surrendered. There's no point.

17:06

They offer fifty hostages and

17:08

they then allow Octavian to

17:10

station a

17:11

garrison. This settlement has two hills on it

17:13

and they say you can have the highest hill and you

17:15

can put your garrison there and will take the lower

17:17

hill. Okay. Alright.

17:19

So that's to deter them from doing

17:22

anything in the future. That seems to be the idea,

17:24

but it doesn't really seem to work terribly well.

17:26

So what we're told is that when

17:28

the Roman garrison enters the town, they

17:30

then demand that the locals give

17:33

up their weapons. And that doesn't go down

17:35

very well at all. The people

17:37

of Metrolin decide that they're going to

17:39

to attack the Romans. They

17:42

shut their wives and children in the council

17:44

chambers and post guards on that with

17:46

an order for them to burn the building

17:48

down if anything goes

17:49

wrong, if something happens to the men,

17:51

just kill everyone because that's more preferable

17:53

than being turned over to the Romans. Exactly

17:56

right. Ouch. Yeah. And they

17:58

attack, but of course, the Romans have the

18:00

higher hill and they have the advantage there

18:02

and they defeat the attack.

18:04

And then the guards do exactly what they're told to

18:06

do. They set fire to the council chambers. And

18:09

were told by Appian that

18:11

many of the women killed their children and themselves,

18:14

others holding in their arms, their children

18:16

still alive, leapt into the flames. Thus

18:18

all the matulean use perished in battle

18:21

and the greater part of the non combatants by

18:23

fire. Their city was entirely consumed

18:25

and large as it was not a trace of it

18:27

now remains.

18:28

Wow. Is that true? There

18:30

are traces but not a lot. Still an uninhabited

18:33

site wasn't reinhabited and so yeah,

18:35

it's a a forested

18:36

hill. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

18:38

That seems excessive, but, you know, I'm not

18:40

the one fighting against Romans. What do I

18:42

know? Yeah. Well, we're told that after

18:44

this, the remainder of the epidermis were

18:46

terror stricken and surrendered to Octavian.

18:49

Not

18:49

surprised. Is that a campaign and

18:51

that is successful or there's still

18:53

more of a leery to deal with, isn't there? There's still plenty

18:55

more. Yeah. And this is where Octavian decides

18:58

that he's going to

19:00

change tack a little bit --

19:01

Mhmm. -- and he decides to head inland. So

19:03

he then moves his campaign towards

19:06

Sager, which is the modern town

19:08

of Sasac in Croatia. And interestingly,

19:10

this is new territory. So the Apides

19:12

had already previously been brought

19:15

into the Roman world. Yeah.

19:17

And they'd already had a relationship with the Romans,

19:19

but the people further in land hadn't at all.

19:22

So Octavian is deciding

19:24

he's going to go and conquer new territory.

19:27

In fact, the d o tells us he had

19:29

no complaint to bring against them, not having

19:31

been wronged by them in any way, but he wanted

19:33

both to give his soldiers actors and

19:35

to support them at the expense of an alien people.

19:37

But he regarded every demonstration against

19:39

a weaker party as just when it pleased

19:42

the man who was their superior in arms. That

19:44

feels like the worst reason to have a campaign.

19:46

It's because he felt

19:48

like it. It was basically If

19:50

somebody was having a campaign against me and that

19:52

was their reasoning, I'd just be so insulted.

19:55

Yeah. By the time he gets

19:57

to Metro, and he's already made it across the main

19:59

bit of the mountain. And then there's a large plane

20:01

area which then leads out to the

20:03

danube. So he's making his way towards that.

20:05

Mhmm.

20:06

In terms of the people who are living there,

20:09

Dio also tells us a little a bit about those people.

20:12

They lead the most miserable existence of

20:14

all mankind. They are not

20:16

well off as regards either soil or

20:18

climb it. They cultivate no olives

20:20

and produce no wine except to a very slight

20:22

extent and a rigid quality of that.

20:24

But drink as well as eat both barley and

20:26

millet. For all that, they are considered

20:28

the bravest of all men of whom we have knowledge,

20:31

as they are very high spirited bloodthirsty, and

20:33

as men who possess nothing that makes an honorable

20:35

life worthwhile. This mustn't

20:38

go down well in Croatia these days. Okay?

20:41

I think people have mostly got over the light

20:43

from Dio. But interestingly,

20:46

actually, Dio was in fact the governor of this area

20:48

in later in his life.

20:49

So he goes on to mention he knows this

20:52

from personal Illyrian. So it's not just hearsay.

20:55

Somebody's got a chip on their shoulder. He

20:57

does. And I've got to say generally the Illyrian

21:00

don't get trade very well in our Greek

21:02

and Roman sources. Yeah. Yeah. Illyrian,

21:04

who's our other major source, the Illyrian. He

21:06

only ever says negative things about he's

21:08

got nothing nice to say about India. So they're

21:11

always being portrayed as greedy

21:13

and drunkards and being heads strong

21:15

and reckless and all these kinds of

21:17

things. It's always negative. This

21:19

is the Romans first venture into this area.

21:21

they get any sort of encounters or resistance

21:23

at all? So as they make

21:26

their way through there, in the beginning,

21:28

the natives simply abandoned their villages.

21:30

Mhmm. And Octavian's doesn't

21:33

destroy or plunder them. He seems to be wanting

21:35

to try to get on

21:37

good terms with them and try to reach a sort

21:39

of piece arrangement in the whatever sense

21:41

you can say you make a peaceful arrangement when you march in

21:43

with an army and then start

21:44

negotiating. Mhmm.

21:46

But then the native start launching a number

21:49

of attacks on them. Again, this kind of gorilla

21:51

fighting where they retreat into the forest

21:53

and and then launch their attacks. And when that

21:55

starts happening, Octavian starts looting and

21:57

burning. Eventually, they end up

21:59

at Sagersta, which is the capital of the area.

22:02

Octavian then seges the city

22:04

for thirty days. And there

22:07

we have some accounts of there being a

22:09

number of conflicts happening there, both on

22:12

land and on water as

22:13

well. So it's actually located on a

22:15

riverside side. And we're

22:17

told that there were a number of naval battles that

22:20

took place -- Mhmm. --

22:21

between the natives and the Romans

22:23

at this point. Does that mean the Romans had

22:25

ships there or are they had wrapped with a couple of

22:27

archers. The Romans had ships there.

22:29

We're not entirely sure where the ships came

22:31

from. We're told in one of the sources

22:33

that they were made by allies of the Romans,

22:35

but we're not quite sure what allies there were in the

22:37

area to be making ships. Yeah.

22:39

Another one suggests that Octavian

22:42

was building some ships in order to launch

22:44

a campaign further inland or

22:47

further along the river at a later

22:48

date. And then we're told that the natives constructed

22:51

their own ships. Yeah. Very skeptical

22:53

as to these ships. But anyway Yeah. I

22:55

don't I don't know what these ships exactly looked like

22:58

or, you know, how bigger naval

23:00

battle this was, whether it was just a skirmish on

23:02

the water. Mhmm. But at any rate, there's

23:04

some fighting happening. The people

23:06

who suggested managed to get some allies to come

23:08

to their aid. Mhmm. That's the Romans

23:11

managed to intercept the Allies and defeat them before

23:13

they get there. Okay. And at that point,

23:15

either they surrender according to Dio

23:17

or they defeat it according to Appian. So, you

23:19

know, it depends on which way you wanna take that. Yeah.

23:22

But after thirty day siege, people

23:24

have suggested surrender. Octavian stops

23:27

at that point. The furthest point that he reaches

23:29

on this campaign. Okay. He then

23:31

stations a garrison there. We're

23:33

told of twenty five cohorts. So

23:36

if they were full cohorts, that could be something in the vicinity

23:38

of twelve thousand men. His

23:40

stations is men there and then he

23:43

heads back to Rome. Okay. Why

23:45

didn't he keep going? We

23:48

don't know why he didn't keep going. We don't know in fact

23:50

why he got there in the first place. Okay. We

23:52

have a couple of suggestions. We

23:55

are told by Appian that Octavian

23:57

was planning on using Sagersta as a

23:59

base for a campaign against the

24:01

nations. And the Bastogne, which

24:03

is a tribe on the other side of the Danube. Though

24:06

the Romans haven't made their way all the

24:08

way up to the Danube, at this point. That will later

24:10

be the border of the Roman Empire, but at this stage

24:12

it it isn't. Julius Caesar

24:14

had had a plan to invade Asia and bake

24:16

his way up to the Danube. never actually

24:19

managed to follow through on that. So Appian

24:21

is just that Octavian is

24:23

planning to do something similar to that. Perhaps this

24:25

is again him trying to emulate Julius

24:27

Caesar. It's

24:29

also been suggested that Octavian

24:31

may have been trying to create a buffer zone

24:34

against the peoples on the other side as a Danube

24:36

to protect Rome and particularly

24:38

to protect Northeast, Italy. So

24:41

if the people from the other side of the Danube

24:43

were going to invade Italy, that would

24:45

be one of the keyways they

24:47

could have done it would be moving down through this

24:50

area -- Mhmm. -- and then down through

24:52

what is today, Slovenia -- Yeah. -- into the

24:54

northeast of Italy. So by creating

24:56

a base in that area, he provides

24:58

a degree of protection, and this is a typical

25:01

Roman tactic. Let's defend ourselves on

25:03

somebody else's territory --

25:04

Mhmm. before they get to us rather than actually

25:06

having to worry about fighting on our

25:08

area. Okay. So that seems to be a

25:10

much more successful siege as in,

25:12

not everyone was slaughtered.

25:14

So Octavian is now heading back to Rome

25:17

and what are his plans going forward

25:19

from this point? The campaign is successful.

25:21

And in fact, Octavian is awarded a triumph

25:23

by the senate, so they're recognizing it

25:26

as successful as well. He he defers

25:28

that. That doesn't actually happen till

25:30

twenty nine BC. And he's decided

25:32

he's going to go off and conquer somewhere else.

25:34

So this time he's decided he's going to set

25:37

out to Britain and conduct an operation

25:39

there. Right. And he gets as far as

25:41

Gaul. That's not Britain. It's

25:44

on way. He's getting on delay

25:46

when some of the Illyrian revolts. So the

25:48

people from Sigesta and some others as well

25:50

decide that they're not happy about having the Romans

25:53

there. At that point, he decides he needs

25:55

to head back and conduct another campaign

25:57

in Illyria. Was this so much of dangerous

26:00

thing that he would enter up a campaign to

26:02

Gribbin, though? Or clearly, but

26:04

I didn't get the impression that they would be

26:07

that much for a threat that need his personal

26:09

attention. I think there were potential a

26:11

threat. I think one of the big problems with the Illyrian

26:13

is that they are very close to Italy.

26:15

Mhmm. Later when

26:17

there's over rebellion in this area.

26:20

Some of the Roman sources talk about this is actually being

26:22

a really serious threat. The Romans don't have

26:24

all around Italy. So once barbarians

26:26

have made it into,

26:28

Italy, then it's open for

26:30

a lot of destruction to take place. Yeah.

26:32

Yeah. Obviously, Octavian thought it

26:34

was serious enough to warrant attention.

26:36

Mhmm. That was probably a reasonable

26:38

assumption on his part.

26:39

Okay. Alright. So back to Illyrian he goes.

26:42

Back to Alleria he goes. It seems that

26:44

the revolt is

26:46

largely taken care of by

26:48

other people before he even gets there. Mhmm.

26:50

But having got there, he decides to launch your

26:52

campaign against the Del Martie. So while

26:54

I'm here while I'm here. While I'm here. Yeah. The Del Martie,

26:57

another people that have been causing trouble. So they're in

26:59

a slightly different part of They're

27:01

further along the coast near the area

27:04

that is today split. Mhmm.

27:06

They had a relationship with the Romans earlier

27:08

on, but they had been in rebellion for

27:10

about ten years at this point. And

27:12

in fact, Julius Caesar's general Gabinius

27:15

had launched a campaign against them in forty

27:17

eight BC and been defeated.

27:20

So the Del Marte possessed

27:22

number of standards that they had taken from

27:24

the Roman army at this time. Yeah.

27:26

Yep. And Octavian says, well, wouldn't

27:28

it be a idea to go and get those back

27:30

and to bring the dogmatic back in

27:32

line.

27:32

That would be a very good thing to do. That's what

27:34

he figured. And so that's exactly what thoughts.

27:37

Okay. He attacks.

27:39

Again, we have another siege. This

27:41

time of the town of Promona,

27:44

near the modern town of Danish in

27:46

Croatia. He has

27:48

some problems with his own army happening

27:51

here. One of the cohorts

27:53

that was meant to be guard sitting

27:55

the city gets attacked and

27:57

they desert. Mhmm. And so,

27:59

again, we have another part of Appian

28:01

where he tells us what a wise commander and

28:05

tough commander Octavian is.

28:07

And we're told at this point that that cohort

28:09

is then

28:10

decimated, that is that one in

28:12

ten men.

28:13

Yeah. Killed by the other men.

28:15

The remaining men are put on barley

28:17

instead of wheat for the rest of the summer. You

28:19

don't often hear about a decimation. No,

28:21

it's very rare. It's it's there is sort of officially

28:24

on the books as punishment that a general candidate

28:26

for interaction will he happen. Yeah. He very

28:28

rarely actually seems to happen. So without have

28:30

been Octavian's call, would

28:32

presume so. Yeah. And Appian

28:34

is or Octavian himself

28:36

is keen to show himself that's being you

28:39

know, you don't muck around with him. I

28:41

think that's one of the key things you

28:43

see in a lot of his

28:44

propaganda. If you're on good terms with him,

28:46

everything is great.

28:47

Yep. Everything

28:48

will go well for you. But

28:49

you sleep with his daughter. Yeah. Things don't go

28:51

well for you. Wow. If you turn against

28:53

him, he's ruthless and get revenge. Okay.

28:56

Or meeting out punishment as you're like Okay.

28:59

How does this siege go? He's successful

29:01

in this siege and it also

29:03

seems that he's blockaded the Del

29:05

Marte. Mhmm. So he stopped imports

29:07

coming into the area and what

29:09

we're told is that they're running out of

29:11

food and they surrender. And

29:14

they returned the standards, which were

29:16

taken back in forty eight. And they

29:19

give them back to Octavian who then brings them back

29:21

to Rome where he proudly puts them on display.

29:23

Either in the portico of

29:25

Octavian's, Or the portico

29:27

of Cannaeus Octavius.

29:30

Yep. Okay. And as for the Dalmatians?

29:32

As for the Dalmatians, they then are

29:34

forced to pay arrears and tribute

29:37

that they had owed to the Romans. They give a

29:39

number of hostages and in one

29:41

of neighboring tribes also. It does

29:43

the same

29:43

thing. They decide it's not worth fighting the Romans,

29:45

so they're brought into line. Okay.

29:48

So at this point, that is another

29:50

successful campaign in Illyrian

29:53

Octavian. At what

29:55

point does it become just

29:57

romanized altogether? Is it is it long

29:59

after

29:59

this, is that part of this process that is going

30:01

through now? This is a a big

30:03

step on the way. Mhmm. So

30:05

as I mentioned before, it's out this time

30:08

that a number of Roman colonies get

30:10

set up along the coastal area.

30:12

So that's gonna be a key part of the Romanization

30:14

happening there as well. Yeah. There is

30:17

another big campaign that happens that

30:19

really pushes the border

30:22

further inland. It's that point that they

30:24

move into having

30:27

the Danube as the border of the Roman Empire.

30:29

So they do another push at which point they really

30:32

fill in the gaps and it actually becomes

30:34

a Roman

30:37

province somewhere between thirty two

30:39

and twenty seven BC. We're not quite sure exactly

30:41

where, but that's, you know, within space of few

30:43

years of this event. Exactly, sir. Yeah.

30:45

It's shortly after this that they've actually they

30:47

appoint a governor and say this is now

30:50

Roman territory that we're going to control and

30:52

then there's a little bit after that, they

30:54

do another push where they

30:56

move the border all the way to the Danube. There's

31:00

then a large rebellion that happens

31:03

between six and 9AD -- Mhmm.

31:05

-- after that's put down the areas

31:07

classified and it becomes increasingly

31:09

romanized after that

31:11

Okay. And Octavian himself,

31:13

he finally celebrates his triumph

31:16

for this campaign in twenty nine BCE,

31:19

so a few years. After this.

31:21

That's right. Celebrates his victory in Dalmatia

31:23

and other places as well. He throws

31:26

in a bit of Gaul and

31:28

and Germany, I think, as well. And

31:30

then also throws in the battle of actium against

31:32

Antoni and Cleopatra and the defeat of Egypt

31:35

and throws them all together into this massive three

31:37

day triple triumph.

31:39

That was Christopher Gribbin, an adjunct

31:41

lecturer in classic Atlatrove University,

31:43

and you have been listening to emperors

31:45

of Rome. It's great to finally

31:47

have Chris on emperors of Rome. If you'd like

31:49

to hear more of him, he's a regular guest on

31:51

my other podcast when in Rome. If

31:53

you'd like to follow us on our socials, Emperors

31:56

of Romeus on Facebook, you can follow us

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on Twitter. Chris is at classics

32:00

Melbourne. I am at Nightlight Guy,

32:02

and the podcast is at Rome

32:04

Podcast. That's it today

32:06

for Emperors of Rome in the next episode.

32:08

We look at the life and rule of Cleopatra

32:11

Salim, daughter of Cleopatra and Anthony.

32:13

Emperors of Rome is produced at Latrobe

32:15

University in Melbourne, Australia, and

32:17

on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people.

32:20

I'm Matt Smith. You've been fantastic.

32:23

And thanks for listening.