0:00

WBUR

0:02

podcast, Boston.

0:11

Happy Valentine's Day. Happy

0:13

Valentine's Day.

0:15

We really need to start mixing it up. It doesn't

0:17

matter what holiday is. If it's like,

0:19

happy

0:20

new year.

0:21

Happy new year. That'd

0:24

be president's day.

0:27

Yeah. That too coming right up.

0:30

Well, listen, we are not

0:32

huge, you

0:34

know, hallmark holiday people at

0:36

endless

0:36

thread. But but

0:39

we love love. Busy.

0:41

Yeah. No. I'm

0:42

kidding. I'm not. couldn't name a Hallmark

0:44

movie. But, yes, love love.

0:45

Love is love. Love is love. No matter

0:48

who you are, No matter what you're doing,

0:50

no matter who you who you're doing it

0:52

with. Love is love.

0:56

That's right. And more of

0:58

that in the world can't be a bad thing.

1:00

Right? As long as it's not illegal

1:03

in forty states, I think

1:05

you're good. And we we

1:08

we found story about love from

1:11

the community on Reddit called our slash

1:13

casual conversations.

1:16

And, yeah, we just kinda wanted

1:18

to share it with you. Can

1:24

you tell us

1:27

the title of your post? I

1:29

really did have a girlfriend who lived

1:31

in Canada.

1:37

This is the person who made that post.

1:39

Their handle on Reddit is nation state

1:42

Tractor.

1:43

Rymes with nation state

1:46

actor. Yes. International

1:49

Relations 101 terminology and

1:51

also maybe terminology you would use

1:53

when you're doing cyber security, which is

1:55

what nation's state tractor does

1:58

for work these days. Long

2:00

after, of course, he was of the age

2:02

that you might claim to your teenage friends

2:04

that you really did have a girlfriend

2:07

who just happened to live in

2:09

Canada. And we're calling said

2:11

Canadian girlfriend Miranda, although

2:14

that's not her real name. And

2:16

and why this title, can you, like, explain

2:18

for the uninitiated, if you

2:20

would, the Canadian girlfriend.

2:23

What what would it be? Is it a meme? Is

2:25

it a like, it's

2:28

just a idea. I

2:31

think it's been around

2:33

longer than what can be described

2:35

as a meme. For

2:38

a seniority types going through middle

2:41

school who didn't

2:43

necessarily have the social skills

2:45

to be part of the popular group

2:47

or have ways

2:50

of interacting with

2:52

the opposite sex. The common

2:54

thing to hear was Oh, yeah.

2:56

No. I have a girlfriend, but you don't know where

2:58

she goes to different school or the other side

3:00

of that

3:01

being, yeah, you don't know where she's she's from

3:03

Canada. But

3:04

in his case I really did have

3:06

a girlfriend who lived in Canada. And

3:08

no, I did not also live in

3:10

Canada.

3:11

This was around nineteen ninety five or nineteen

3:13

ninety six. I was in middle school.

3:16

Nation State Tractor's real name,

3:18

John Smith. I don't think anyone will believe

3:21

anyone, but that is actually my name.

3:23

John is

3:23

fine. Get

3:24

out. Really?

3:26

John. I'm serious. Yep. Mhmm.

3:28

See, that's perfect. I don't think it's had a girlfriend

3:30

again. So are you telling me?

3:33

Yep. I predicted

3:35

this exact moment.

3:43

I'm Ben rock, you wouldn't know her Johnson.

3:46

I'm Amory Canadian girlfriend,

3:48

Stevenson. And

3:48

you're listening to endless threat.

3:50

Coming to you from WBR. Boston's

3:53

NPR station. Today, a

3:55

good old fashioned and

3:58

maybe a little bit fake sounding, but totally

4:00

true. We think love

4:02

story.

4:15

So what were you like in middle school?

4:18

I have a picture from

4:20

my eighth grade yearbook

4:23

where I am holding up a

4:26

huge thick hardcover Java

4:29

programming book. That's

4:32

what I did. So at lunchtime, I go

4:34

eat my lunch, inhaled as fast as I could,

4:37

and then go to the library and

4:39

I would write programs

4:42

on the ancient computers

4:44

that still could

4:46

could write programs on them and make them

4:48

all sound like police sirens or something like that.

4:50

But that's that's what I did basically

4:53

every

4:53

day. Almost an exact stereotype

4:55

of computer nerd. How

5:00

would you describe your interaction

5:03

with the opposite sex? We like,

5:06

zero percent, just

5:08

bootshaking terror, deep

5:11

interest, but no interest

5:13

returned. What was your middle

5:16

school interaction with girls

5:18

like?

5:21

Goodness. It was it's kind combination

5:23

of everything that you mentioned. To

5:25

say I had a phobia of rejection is

5:28

not, that's probably an understatement.

5:31

I did not talk

5:34

to any girls at all in

5:36

person. If they

5:38

talked to me, I

5:40

was always under the assumption that

5:43

it was on a dare that they were talking to

5:45

me because that was that was the truth

5:47

a lot of the time. So it was a

5:49

lot easier to assume that was the case

5:52

all the time.

5:53

So, yeah, there was a lot of

5:55

fear for sure.

5:58

So how did Miranda come into your

6:00

life? So

6:02

Miranda came about not

6:05

in person, which removed a lot of the fear.

6:08

This was back when I was

6:10

on when CompuServe was still around,

6:12

when I was doing basic like roleplaying,

6:14

D and D roleplaying, taking the

6:16

characters that I had in my LEGO figures

6:19

and pretending that I was

6:21

those people on these CompuServe DND

6:24

role play

6:24

chats. And can you just, like, give

6:26

us a quick description of CompuServe?

6:29

CompuServe was

6:31

the precursor, believe

6:33

it or not, no one will believe this. But the precursor

6:36

to America online, AOL,

6:39

it was a portal

6:41

based Internet service provider.

6:44

So you met Miranda in particular

6:47

channel in this comp you serve.

6:51

I did. System. Clearly,

6:53

I don't know what I'm talking about. You're

6:56

that rare dream. You really

6:58

are that rare dream of meeting a girl

7:00

in the chat room.

7:01

Yeah. You know? Yes. Yep.

7:06

And how did the, yeah, how did the

7:08

conversation start? So

7:11

I was learning In

7:13

addition to the the the other programming

7:16

languages that I was still learning at

7:18

the time, I was also learning HTML

7:21

for how to make web pages. And

7:24

I forget how found out about Geocities, but

7:27

I ended up with a site on

7:29

Geocities. Where

7:32

I it was mostly about my favorite

7:34

video game at the time, which I had never actually

7:36

played. Called Crono

7:39

Trigger. It

7:45

is like half that. A

7:47

lot of video game graphics from that.

7:49

And then the other half of it was all of

7:51

the programming stuff that I was doing. And

7:54

someone was asking about something programming related,

7:56

and I I posted a link

7:59

to my my site

8:02

A few minutes later, someone else sent me an instant

8:04

message. You have a geocities

8:07

site and you're into chrono

8:08

trigger? That's so cool. I have

8:10

one of those

8:11

two. They sent me the link

8:13

to their Geocities site, which was all about

8:15

Scarlet Witch, yes, the Marvel Comics

8:17

character. On which she based her

8:19

d and d

8:20

character. And what did you learn about

8:22

her as a person? Like, who she

8:24

was? Where she was? What

8:26

she was

8:27

into. What what did you actually feel

8:30

like you knew about her?

8:33

I think one of the first things that anyone asked

8:35

anyone around that time is, so

8:37

where are you from? How old are

8:39

you? And by

8:42

the way, are you a guy

8:44

or a

8:44

girl? Typically known

8:46

as ASL at that

8:48

time. ASL.

8:51

Yeah. Age sex located.

8:53

Oh, okay. Yes. And

8:55

for you, you, this out there anyway.

8:57

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

8:59

What was her what was her ASL? She

9:02

was fourteen female

9:06

Canada. Over

9:11

the next few weeks, we would chat almost daily.

9:13

I learned her real name Miranda, her

9:16

age fourteen, where she

9:18

was from Montreal, and

9:20

all the games she liked, which were also

9:22

all the games I liked. It was awesome.

9:25

Here was this girl I had never seen before.

9:28

But she was into just about everything I

9:30

was into. And

9:32

she was nice to me and actually enjoyed talking

9:34

to me. I

9:39

asked, hey, I know you don't live anywhere

9:41

near me, but would you like to be

9:43

my girlfriend? And yes, absolutely,

9:46

she totally went for it, which I was not

9:48

expecting, but at least wasn't afraid to

9:50

ask because she wasn't there in

9:51

person. It was a lot easier. Did

9:54

you stay open to the possibility the whole

9:56

time that she might be

9:59

like a fifty year old guy or

10:01

were you just really overcome

10:03

with, no, she's exactly

10:06

who she says she is. I've been love.

10:08

This is great. Yep, absolutely

10:10

the latter. It never once crossed my mind

10:12

that she was anyone other than who she said she was

10:14

because to me that could

10:16

not be school. She

10:21

sent me a scanned family photo pointing herself

10:24

out even though she was the only teenager in the picture.

10:27

She was so out of my league. It was ridiculous.

10:29

League? No. Not even the same

10:31

sport.

10:32

When you said I have a girlfriend in Canada,

10:35

People thought you were making it up. Oh, yes.

10:37

Yeah. Did people react in a way that they

10:40

would have seen they would react?

10:42

Yep. Yes, they well. Yeah.

10:45

A lot of eye rolling. Like, oh, okay.

10:48

That's cool. I spent the better part

10:50

of two weeks mentioning to anyone who would listen

10:52

at school that had a girlfriend who was in

10:54

high school. And she was so

10:57

hot and smart and you couldn't meet her because

10:59

she was in Canada. Take a look at this picture

11:01

of her that I used an entire ink cartridge to

11:03

print over the course of twenty minutes, but

11:06

it gets better.

11:11

So when did it? When was the next

11:13

step taken? You've talked a

11:16

hunt online, you've swapped photos,

11:18

you're each other's, you know, quote unquote, boyfriends

11:20

and girlfriend.

11:22

When did you when did you finally

11:24

see her? The answer

11:27

right after this short breath. After

11:33

the break, John goes to Canada to

11:35

finally meet his Canadian

11:37

girlfriend.

11:43

After eighth grade ended during the summer,

11:45

we kept talking on the phone right

11:48

before school was supposed to start.

11:51

My mom decided that she wanted me

11:53

and my sister to

11:56

kinda spontaneously, like, let's let's go

11:58

to Niagara Falls I went there when I was little,

12:00

you guys haven't. So

12:02

it was kind of my my mother's doing,

12:05

which If

12:07

she had known my plans, never would have let this

12:09

happen. But yeah, my mom

12:11

decided, let's all take a family trip to

12:14

two Niagara Falls. And when I found out about

12:16

that, I let Miranda

12:18

know, hey, I'm gonna be

12:20

kind of near there Is

12:22

there any chance we can meet up? She

12:24

had moved from Montreal to

12:27

Toronto over the summer.

12:30

So she was a lot closer at

12:32

that point. So I figured if there was any chance

12:34

of this happening, this was this was

12:36

going to be it. I had I had no way of

12:38

getting myself there otherwise. Timing

12:45

had to be perfect since Miranda's mom

12:48

had a two hour drive to get us there,

12:50

and I wouldn't be able to call after they left.

12:52

At best, I'd have to wait for her to call the hotel

12:54

room from a pay phone after they arrived.

12:57

I distinctly remember wondering and

12:59

worrying if Canada even had pay phones.

13:02

I was not well educated in

13:04

the ways of the world at the time. Eventually,

13:06

the day of the trip came and it was longest

13:09

six and a half hour drive of my life.

13:16

Much of that morning was a blur. I just

13:18

remember trying to convince my mom and my sister

13:20

that we should eat lunch at a picnic table

13:22

conveniently near the meeting spot. You

13:24

know, to enjoy the falls of the meal.

13:27

I was constantly looking over my shoulder,

13:29

making sure I could see every face with invisible

13:32

vicinity, just in case one of them was

13:34

Miranda. But Miranda

13:36

found me first. She

13:41

came running up to me from across the adjacent

13:43

grass and threw her arms around me. I

13:46

picked her up and spun her around. It

13:48

felt like a movie. I was beyond

13:50

thrilled. Then

13:52

just as quickly, she backed off with

13:54

a scared look of concern on her face.

13:57

You are nation state tractor.

13:59

Right? I

14:01

confirmed, yes, indeed, I was me

14:04

and it was nobody else. Then

14:06

she smiled and she kissed me. It

14:09

was my first kiss. Hell, it was

14:11

my first everything. First time being hugged

14:13

by a girl I wasn't related to. First

14:15

time holding hands. First time a girl

14:18

put her head on my shoulder, I was so

14:20

happy. We

14:23

spent a grand total of about six hours together.

14:25

That was it. That was the

14:28

only time we would ever see each other in person.

14:37

When Ewen Miranda left Niagara,

14:41

who was that John? And

14:43

how did he move differently through

14:45

middle school, high school, and

14:48

onward. Yeah.

14:50

It wasn't an instant change, but Yeah.

14:54

I just it was an amazing confidence

14:56

boost. Like, I I

14:59

realized that I

15:01

could talk to people and people could talk

15:03

to me and they're weren't necessarily

15:06

ulterior motives in in what

15:09

what girls were saying to me. My

15:11

yeah. My my conversations with with not

15:13

just girls, but, you know, everyone in general, they they were

15:15

a lot more genuine, and I had a lot

15:17

less to fear. The blood

15:19

pressure lowered a lot in

15:22

social interactions after

15:23

that. It made things a lot easier.

15:25

There's so much about this

15:27

story that feels very, like,

15:30

surprisingly wholesome. I

15:32

just wonder how you think about the Internet now,

15:34

like, and and and and these possibilities

15:36

for connection. Like, you work in cyber security,

15:38

so you probably see some dark stuff. But

15:42

this story is so wholesome in the way that

15:44

it played out. And and do you

15:46

still see that opportunity

15:49

and that power for

15:51

goodness in the way that we can connect online?

15:54

Or is this

15:57

a nostalgic story from the past for you?

15:59

And that's it. Unfortunately,

16:03

I do. It really is

16:05

a nostalgic story. I miss

16:07

the way the Internet was. I wish

16:09

it was still the same in in

16:12

in most aspects. Communication

16:15

wise, Everyone is always

16:17

connected all the time. The world

16:19

is so much smaller now, which

16:22

I mean and it felt small then too just because

16:24

now I have access to all of these

16:26

people from all over the world that I can talk to.

16:28

But but now it's it's constant, whereas

16:31

back then you had to go seek it out. I

16:41

don't know where Miranda is now and I'm

16:43

happily married with family of my own.

16:46

So I don't care to go Internet stalking. Last

16:49

I knew learned Spanish in addition to French

16:52

and got a master's degree and worked

16:54

for the Ontario Ministry of Health. That

16:57

was over a decade ago. Even

16:59

if she's done nothing else, that's still better than

17:01

anything I've done. So I hope she's

17:03

happy and still doing what she loves.

17:11

I I know you don't want to go Internet stocking.

17:13

Right? And you have a family and

17:15

you're happy. And so, like, I I totally

17:18

get the kind of like, like,

17:20

I'm good. I had this I had this thing

17:23

you know, it ended, that's

17:25

fine. Right? Mhmm.

17:30

But don't you kinda wanna know? Like, is

17:32

it isn't wouldn't would be nice if you

17:34

could just like know what

17:36

she's up to or like

17:39

for her to know, for instance, the impact

17:41

that this had on you and for you to

17:43

maybe see if she

17:45

also felt the same, like, I'm

17:48

just curious if you have any sort

17:50

of curiosity there. I imagine you do.

17:53

I think I mean, I do. I do have curiosity.

17:57

I in Miranda's case,

18:00

I know what she was like as a teenager. And

18:02

know people change, but she

18:06

was so genuine about everything

18:08

that she said. She I

18:11

mean, I talk about the confidence boost that I had, the confidence

18:13

that she just had in general. I

18:16

know no matter No matter

18:18

what she did, no matter what she came across

18:20

after our meeting, I'm

18:23

sure she's doing great things. She she must

18:25

be. That's just the type of version

18:27

she was. I yeah.

18:29

I guess that's why I don't really have that much curiosity

18:32

regarding it because I I just I just

18:34

know that she's doing great things.

18:49

Well, we are into some well intentioned

18:52

internet stocking, but we haven't been able

18:54

to find

18:54

Miranda, the Canadian girlfriend, yet.

18:57

I mean, I looked for her. Our producer,

18:59

Dean Russell, looked for her. John gave

19:01

us her real full name, but it was

19:04

a maiden name, of course. AND

19:06

WE'VE REALLY Poked AROUND BUT NO

19:08

DICE.

19:10

SO MAYBE THIS STORY IS

19:12

FAKE. JOHN, YOU SCOUNTERED.

19:16

No. We believe you. We we

19:18

we want to believe. We totally believe

19:20

you, John. Totally. Totally. No. We really

19:22

do believe you. And and we're gonna keep

19:24

looking. And we'll

19:26

keep dreaming.

19:30

What if you and your families met

19:32

up? I'm I'm imposing

19:35

a family on her. I don't know what her situation

19:37

is, but, like, I'm picturing your

19:39

family and her family meeting up at

19:41

Niagara

19:43

going. Oh, man. That sounds great. Going on the

19:45

maid of the mist and talking

19:47

about --

19:48

The kids hanging -- GEO cities.

19:50

Yeah. So I don't

19:53

know if my wife would be cool with that.

19:55

But

19:56

You're right. This story all he has a happy enough

19:58

ending. I'm I'm pushing it. It has a I'm

20:00

asking for Trump. You know? Yeah.

20:02

That's true. So Miranda,

20:04

if you're out there, please get in touch. But

20:08

then, we should say that John told us how

20:10

he met his wife. He had failed

20:12

out of college and was in the military trying

20:14

to get his life back on

20:15

track. He was stationed in

20:17

Japan and had gotten really into

20:19

this band sushi cabaret club,

20:22

which didn't have Japanese band members

20:24

and didn't sing in Japanese. So

20:26

I I went to their MySpace page and

20:29

MySpace, you know, they

20:30

had, like, your top friends or whatever. And

20:33

I would just, you know, just happen to snapshot

20:37

in my mind of their top friends. And

20:40

so I went to go see them in in

20:42

Tokyo. Afterwards, like

20:44

when the lights come up and everything and I notice

20:46

to the right of me is there's

20:48

this girl who She

20:51

looks really familiar. She's

20:54

on the band's top friends

20:56

list. And so I kinda turned

20:58

to her and I go, Are Yuki?

21:00

I didn't even know if she spoke English. And

21:03

she turns to me and she goes, how

21:06

do you know my name? So,

21:11

yeah, I'm I'm

21:14

John Smith. And,

21:17

like, as the words came out of my mouth, like,

21:19

well, that's super helpful. It's just from

21:22

from my space. Like, wow.

21:25

So that's That's how I met my wife.

21:27

It was kind of also from the

21:29

Internet. Do you think do you think

21:31

pre Miranda John would

21:34

have had the gut to go up to Miyuki

21:36

and say, hey. Great

21:39

question.

21:39

I'm done. You're shaking your head. No.

21:42

Absolutely not. Not not

21:44

at all. Not at all. Wow. This

21:47

is the best timeline. You live in

21:49

the best

21:49

timeline. Yes. Well, Yeah.

21:52

I I consider myself probably one of

21:54

the luckiest people on Earth because

21:57

there is no skill involved in this at

21:58

all. It just sort of happened. Wow.

22:02

Well, you tell you tell Miyuki

22:05

that Miranda doesn't

22:07

mean anything to you in that way

22:09

now, but she gave you the gift

22:11

of confidence that allowed -- There

22:13

would be no -- It's right. -- you know my yuki

22:15

without my head. Right. That's right.

22:17

You can't have Mieuki without Miranda.

22:20

That's the that's really what life

22:22

is, isn't it?

22:23

When you look back and you're like, Wow.

22:26

All of the various Miranda's that

22:28

happen lead up to army equities,

22:31

and hopefully it all works out for the best.

22:42

You know, Emery, I almost never say this,

22:44

but but, you know, this

22:47

this set of stories really It

22:50

almost makes you wanna say all's well that

22:52

ends well on the

22:53

Internet. You know?

22:56

Yeah. And it's a good reminder

22:58

that You know, middle

23:00

school is a phase. It

23:03

too shall pass. It will prepare

23:05

you for better, brighter,

23:09

more love

23:12

filled days.

23:13

Yeah. And I feel like

23:16

once someone told me cool is not something

23:18

you're better than it's something

23:20

you're

23:20

into, if

23:22

that makes sense. Cool. Is not something

23:24

you're better than. It's it's

23:26

what you're into. So it's like Yeah.

23:30

Yeah. And I feel like love is

23:32

that way too, you know. And like John found

23:34

his his fellow

23:36

gaming nerd. On the Internet,

23:38

even though he had never played the video game, he found

23:41

his fellow gaming nerd. And that's beautiful,

23:43

you know. Yeah. Find

23:45

your people. And hold

23:47

on to him. Yeah. So

23:50

with that, we wish you all

23:53

the chocolate strawberries and

23:55

chalk, chalky candy with tiny messages

23:57

on them that your heart could desire.

24:00

And the doughnut. Just

24:03

for good measure.

24:05

I love doughnut. I love

24:07

doughnut.

24:10

I like that I said, I love donut, and

24:12

you started to say, I love donuts.

24:20

Oh, boy. She's

24:22

done it again. Classic.

24:26

Classic. Yes. That you were saying, like,

24:28

I love doughnut. Isn't

24:33

it? Isn't it? We're like hamburger.

24:39

I could really go for the hamburger. What

24:42

are you talking about right now?

24:46

I think you better take a short

24:47

bread.

24:47

I'm high on love.

24:49

You better take a short bread, you know? I'm

24:51

high.

24:57

Happy Valentine's Day.

24:59

Happy Valentine's Day y'all. We'll see you in

25:01

a week.

25:12

Endless thread is production of WBUR

25:15

in Boston. This episode was produced

25:17

by Nora Sachs, and co hosted by

25:19

me, Emery Sievertzen and

25:21

Ben Brock Johnson who, you know,

25:23

he said he had to go see about a girl.

25:26

In Canada. Mix and sound is

25:28

done by Emily Jankowski. The rest of our

25:30

team is Dean Russell, Quincy Walters,

25:32

Grace Tatter, Amy Gorrell, Matt Reeb,

25:34

and Paul Vikas. Analyst

25:36

Red is a show about the blurred lines between

25:39

digital communities and

25:41

nation state actors. If you've got

25:43

an untold history and unsolved miss

25:45

story or a wild story from the Internet

25:47

that you want us to tell? Hit us up

25:49

pretty please. Email endless thread at

25:51

WBUR dot org.

25:54

Tell someone you love them today. Will you?

25:56

Bye.