0:00

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to even the

0:02

royals early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery

0:04

Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple

0:06

Podcasts. A quick note,

0:08

we're going to talk about some steamy sex

0:10

scenes in this episode. And we'll be using

0:12

some language that the royal court would deem

0:15

impolite. Please be advised. From

0:25

Wondery, I'm Brooke Sifrin. And

0:27

I'm Arisha Skidmore-Williams. And

0:30

this is even the royals. So,

0:43

Arisha, tell me about a time where

0:45

something went so off the rails, and I know

0:47

this happens all the time. I was going to

0:49

say. Especially the two of us, but

0:51

this just for you. It

0:54

went so off the rails that you wished you could

0:56

rewrite history and change the outcome. I

0:58

mean, truly it's like this, it'd be

1:00

easier for me to give an answer of

1:02

when something didn't go off the rails, which is never.

1:05

I know. But I'll try

1:07

and keep this very like related to

1:09

the show. Okay. We

1:12

were getting an award. We were getting a

1:14

Gracie. And everyone was like, you guys

1:16

should go to the press line. Walk

1:18

through the press line. Because they're doing

1:20

like they're interviewing everyone. Yeah. So like the clowns

1:22

we were, we stood in line. Got our pictures

1:25

and then they shuffled us off before we put

1:27

to talk to any press. We didn't get to

1:29

talk to a single reporter. They were like, no,

1:31

like, where are these nobodies? Spit out. Yeah.

1:34

And I would rewrite history to where we

1:36

walked down and Melissa McCarthy showed up for

1:39

hers. And she was giving an

1:41

interview. She heard us giving an interview. And she's like, holy

1:43

shit, you guys are so funny. And

1:45

then next thing you know, we're in a

1:47

buddy cop movie with her. That's what, that's the

1:49

rewriting of history. I 100% am

1:51

on board and love that rewrite. Thank

1:54

you. And rewriting history is exactly

1:56

what we're talking about on today's episode. Not

1:59

for us though, unfortunately. The Gracie press line has to haunt

2:01

us for the rest of our lives. It

2:03

has and it will continue to. Yes.

2:06

But today we're going to be talking about the story

2:08

of Lady Jane Grey, a 16th

2:10

century Queen of England who reigned for

2:12

just nine days. Some would

2:15

say if her life were to be a rom-com, it

2:17

would be how to lose a kingdom

2:19

in nine days. I love it.

2:21

So sadly Jane never got a rom-com

2:23

during her lifetime. But now, almost 500

2:26

years later, she does get

2:28

her own genre-bending TV series. Yeah,

2:31

and as you all know, TV is

2:34

one of our favorite pastimes. So

2:36

we've watched it and now we get to

2:38

talk about it. And it is deliciously spicy.

2:42

Oh, it's so good. So if anyone listening

2:44

hasn't seen the show already, seriously

2:46

go check out my Lady Jane on Amazon Prime. Basically

2:49

just take any royal story but add in

2:51

fantastical beasts and fewer beheadings. I'm always here

2:53

for fewer beheadings. Like heads belong on our

2:55

bodies. I don't know why that's such a

2:58

diabolical concept for them. But

3:02

before we dive into the more badass version of

3:04

Lady Jane Grey's story, we're going to give you

3:06

the TikTok summary of the true events behind the

3:08

show. So the real

3:10

life Lady Jane Grey was

3:12

the grand niece of our

3:15

favorite king ever. OG

3:18

fuckboy Henry VIII, the guy who

3:20

had six wives and managed to take

3:22

off two of their heads. And

3:25

starting on Monday, our first episode in a

3:27

super series on all six of Henry's wives

3:29

will be ready for your ear holes. But

3:32

today we're talking about the queen who took

3:34

over after Henry VIII's son, Edward VI. Edward

3:37

was Jane's cousin and, spoiler alert,

3:39

he dies young. So Edward named

3:41

Jane as his heir, but of

3:43

course the royal court is always

3:45

filled with drama. Yep,

3:48

even 500 years later, who knew? So

3:50

the royal council basically said, we

3:54

don't think so. Edward, in your wishes, can just

3:56

choke. And they ended up

3:58

putting one of Henry's daughters on the court. Mary on

4:01

the throne, a whopping nine days

4:03

after Jane was crowned. And then

4:05

poor Jane suffered the same fate

4:07

as two of Henry's wives beheaded

4:09

for treason. Yes, and she

4:11

was only 17. She

4:13

couldn't even drink yet. Or

4:16

play the lottery. What a terrible outcome. Yeah.

4:18

But yeah, history has painted Lady Jane Grey

4:20

as the damsel in distress, a gal who

4:22

was in the wrong place at the wrong

4:25

time. But today, we're going to talk to

4:27

two women who have reimagined Lady Jane Grey

4:29

for the small screen. Yes, Gemma

4:31

Burgess and Meredith Glenn are the creative

4:33

masterminds behind the new Amazon Prime series,

4:35

My Lady Jane, which was actually adapted

4:38

from a 2016 novel of the

4:40

same name. Yeah, and we're also

4:42

going to talk to Emily Bader, who's the actress bringing

4:44

Jane Grey to life in the new show. And

4:47

together, this powerhouse trio basically says to

4:49

hell with history and reinvents Jane as

4:51

the razor-sharp head bitch in charge who

4:54

ends division in her country. And also

4:56

gets to have really steamy sex with

4:58

her hot husband. Just a full

5:00

back bitch, really. Yeah, just slipping the dream. Needless

5:03

to say, we love this show and

5:05

we cannot wait for you to hear

5:07

this conversation with Gemma and Meredith and

5:09

then later Emily Bader. They are all

5:12

amazing. They're so cool. They're just as cool

5:14

as our leading Lady Jane. But try not

5:16

to lose your heads because guess what? That's

5:19

all coming up. By

5:26

listening on Audible, whether you

5:28

listen to stories, motivation, expert

5:31

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you can be inspired to

5:35

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5:37

new ways of thinking. With Audible, there's

5:39

more to imagine when you listen. And

5:42

speaking of listening, you can

5:44

listen to the best-selling fantasy romance,

5:47

A Court of Thorns and Roses by

5:49

Sarah J. Mass. Right now on the

5:51

Audible app, transport yourself to a realm

5:53

of magic and purses, all from the

5:55

comfort of your living room. As an

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Audible member, you choose one type of...

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a month to keep from their entire

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catalog. New members can try Audible free

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for 30 days. Visit

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audible.com/wonderepod or text wonderepod

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to 500 500. That's

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audible.com/wonderepod or text wonderepod

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to 500 500. Support

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that glitters is a mold. Gemma

7:02

Burgess, Meredith Glynn, welcome to Even

7:05

the Royals. Thank you for

7:07

having us. Oh my God,

7:09

we are so excited to have you. So

7:11

first of all, congratulations on this

7:14

show. It is so good. I

7:17

am obsessed with this show. And she doesn't say

7:19

that about scripted shows, let me tell you. She's

7:22

like a reality queen. That is true, but I

7:24

do also love scripted shows. Don't list to a

7:26

word she says ever. So

7:29

all episodes are out on Amazon Prime today.

7:31

So how does it feel to finally have

7:34

your baby out in the world? Baby's

7:37

first steps, here we are. We're enjoying,

7:39

I think. Just really excited

7:41

for everyone to watch and

7:43

hopefully love it as much as we do. Yeah,

7:45

they will. So Meredith, you and

7:48

Gemma were co-show runners on this.

7:50

Yes. Have you two worked together

7:52

before? How did you partner up on this? We

7:54

had not. I was working

7:56

on a show called The Boys. Oh,

7:58

yeah. Love, obviously. Obviously, woo! Yeah,

8:01

great show. Between seasons, I

8:04

was looking for something to do, and

8:06

I was reading pilots,

8:08

and I read Gemma's incredible pilot, and I

8:11

fell in love with the story, and in

8:13

love with Jane, and in love with Gemma

8:15

on the page, and now in love with

8:17

Gemma in real life. That's right. And I

8:20

was looking for a partner to create the

8:22

rest of the show with, and

8:24

fell in love with Meredith, made her move to

8:26

London and make a show with me. She's never

8:29

getting away from me again. But we were also

8:31

both mutually obsessed with Jane Grey when we were

8:33

growing up. Okay. So,

8:35

My Lady Jane is based on

8:37

a beautiful book, which takes the

8:39

real tragic story of Lady Jane

8:41

Grey, who was forced into marriage

8:43

against her will, made queen against

8:46

her will, and then after

8:48

nine days of being queen, she was thrown in

8:50

the Tower of London, and a couple of months

8:52

later beheaded. It's a famously tragic story. And what

8:54

the book did with this incredibly charming, and fresh,

8:56

and smart point of view, was

8:59

say, can I swear? Can we swear? Yes.

9:02

Swear away, please. About that. So,

9:05

We love it. Yeah. It

9:07

just changes Jane's story. And Meredith and I had

9:09

both, you know, been obsessed with the real Jane

9:11

Grey as teenagers, like so many teenage girls are,

9:15

because of the Helena Bonham Carter, Carrie Elwes movie.

9:18

Naturally. Naturally. And the Delaroche painting,

9:20

which is this, you know, beautiful,

9:22

tragic, doomed heroine. And when you're

9:24

very romantic minded, sort

9:26

of 13 year old, you think, that's amazing. And

9:28

then you grow up and go, oh, I wish

9:30

that hadn't happened the way it did. And

9:33

the chance to retell it was irresistible. So then,

9:35

would you say you guys were both

9:37

pretty familiar with the real story of

9:39

Lady Jane when you went into this?

9:41

Yes, we both, we both, we wouldn't

9:44

say we're history experts, we're history enthusiasts.

9:46

We're history nerds. Nerds. Love it. We

9:48

could make the show where, you know, it's very an

9:50

iconistic, lots of the dialogue is modern, you know, there's

9:52

lots of things that are not historically correct. But

9:55

we also get to put in little

9:57

winks for the history nerds among us,

9:59

like. Mark's meat and jokes and

10:02

Bessie Blancho. We got to combine two seamores

10:04

into one seamore, even though the real seamores

10:06

were both dead by 1553. Lots

10:09

of things like that. You can just play with history because no

10:11

one's stopping you and it's your show. It's great. Yeah,

10:14

exactly. We got to play a

10:16

clip from the first minute of

10:18

the show where the delightfully snarky

10:20

narrator gives us a quick history

10:22

of the real Lady Jane and makes it clear that

10:25

this is not that. Jane

10:27

could have been the leader England

10:29

needed, but instead history remembers her

10:31

as the ultimate damsel in distress.

10:34

Fuck that. What if

10:36

history were different? Ladies,

10:38

what tone were you trying to set with

10:41

this moment? Well, that is the

10:43

Delaroche painting with the look there. The

10:46

tone with the narrator is always, and

10:48

with the show really is to be

10:50

quite serious and then surprisingly silly and

10:52

snarky. Yes, I love that. The narrator

10:55

just adds an element to the show

10:57

that brings it back into a fun place

10:59

and I'm obsessed. I feel

11:01

like recently narrators have gotten more

11:04

fun with how they tell stories. I feel like

11:06

growing up whenever there was a narrator, we

11:09

get Morgan Freeman, nothing against Morgan Freeman, but

11:11

it's always just so serious. Now

11:13

we're getting narrators that are just having fun with

11:15

us. Yeah. I love it.

11:17

It's fun. Speaking of fun, something that

11:20

I absolutely loved about the show was

11:22

from the beginning, you make

11:24

it clear that there will be sex in

11:26

the story. The first time we meet Jane,

11:28

she's literally concocting a vagina bomb for her

11:31

friend, who picked up an infection while shagging

11:33

some dude from the village. That's

11:36

just the first scene. Why

11:38

did you guys decide to go this route and

11:40

thank you for going this route? We

11:43

felt that it was something that we know

11:45

that women throughout time have always talked

11:48

shared secrets when it

11:50

comes to sex and it's not often shown.

11:54

Sex is a big part of life. It just

11:56

is. We wanted to be a part

11:58

of these characters' lives as well. and

12:00

to have fun with it, but to

12:02

also treat it seriously. Yeah. One

12:05

of the things, you guys know this from being

12:07

history nerds like us, is that the

12:10

English during the Tudor time, the women were

12:12

renowned as being pretty licentious.

12:14

Everyone kissed an ellipse. There's a lot of

12:16

alcohol being drunk. There's a lot of

12:18

scandal. So it seemed unrealistic

12:20

to expect that someone didn't know anything.

12:23

Yeah. Agree. So let's

12:25

talk about the chemistry between Jane

12:27

and her husband, Guildford Dudley, played

12:29

by Emily Bader and Edward Blumel.

12:32

The chemistry is just off the charts. It's

12:35

an enemies to lover dynamic. We

12:37

are gonna play a quick clip of their

12:39

first meeting, but for anyone who hasn't watched

12:41

the show yet, let me give you a

12:43

little bit of context. So Jane winds up

12:45

at this townie pub and she sees this

12:47

mysterious hottie, AKA her future husband. He

12:50

has just recited a poem in Latin for

12:52

the whole bar. Jane goes up to him

12:54

ready to flirt, but ends up ripping

12:56

into him. You mispronounced weena by the

12:59

way. Vena, where'd

13:01

you learn your Latin? In a ditch. Who

13:04

would teach Latin in a ditch? Are you missing the

13:06

point? The point being? Your mediocre Latin and disappointing

13:08

table manners. Are we at a table? No. Yeah,

13:11

missing a point. Has anybody ever told you that you're

13:13

an insufferable pedant? Oh, where

13:15

I come from, pedantry is a virtue. Where I

13:17

come from, amiability trumps semantics. Amiability is

13:19

for the meek. Amiability is for

13:22

the amiable. You were the rudest man I

13:24

have ever met. Well, the night is young. Oh,

13:27

I intend to. So I love

13:30

it. The banter I thrive to be a

13:32

part of. I know, like the tension

13:34

is so thick. This is very good to be at

13:36

the... Meredith, what do you

13:39

think makes the enemies to lovers

13:41

trope so fun for viewers?

13:43

Well, they clearly have a

13:45

sizzling sexual attraction, but they also

13:47

drive each other crazy. Banter

13:50

is their love language. Argument is

13:52

their love language. But

13:55

ultimately, these are two people who are drawn

13:57

to each other and who deeply need each

13:59

other. Even if they don't recognize it, we the

14:01

audience do. And we love that.

14:03

We love the waiting and the yearning and

14:05

just waiting for them to wake up and

14:08

see that they're perfect for each other and

14:10

that they're in love. Yeah. We

14:13

were really inspired by, you know,

14:15

Benedictine Beatrice, Much Too About Nothing.

14:17

And screwball comedy. Screwball comedy. We

14:19

really like swashbuckling action and the

14:21

yearning. Yearning is such a great

14:23

word. We love a yearn. We play

14:26

and we yearn. We got to

14:28

bring those words back into regular conversation. So

14:32

we also, we have to quickly talk about

14:34

Lady Jane's mom, who is played by Anna

14:36

Chancellar, AKA the snooty stepmom to be from

14:38

What a Girl Wants. Great

14:41

movie. Absolutely ridiculous movie. But

14:44

in this show, she plays such a spunky

14:46

mom. So it's no surprise that Lady Jane

14:48

is her own version of a firecracker. Like,

14:50

I think one of my favorite moments in

14:53

the show was when Lady Frances is scheming

14:55

as usual and literally tells her youngest daughter

14:57

that fellatio is her best skill. There is

14:59

always a way out if you know how

15:01

to play the game. And

15:04

luckily for us, gamesmanship is my

15:06

second best skill. What's

15:08

your first best skill, mommy? Fellatio.

15:12

You're correct. Two very important skills. I'd

15:14

say scheming is most important, but I, you

15:16

know, I digress. So,

15:19

and this is

15:21

a classic dynamic that we've seen on the

15:23

Royals, like on our show. So many of

15:25

our leading ladies take inspiration from their moms.

15:27

It's almost like we all do. We

15:30

did. We did. Were your

15:32

moms the inspiration for Lady Frances's character?

15:34

How much is based on her real

15:36

life story? Well, the real Lady Frances

15:39

really is described in some history books

15:41

as you know, a relentless and permanently

15:43

dissatisfied schema, which we just adored. It's

15:45

a perfect description. It's a perfect description.

15:47

We read that somewhere where we're like,

15:50

ugh, love it. Permanently dissatisfied schema. She

15:52

doesn't, she's amazing. She's so

15:54

amazing. The only problem with writing

15:56

Frances, honestly, is that you want her to take

15:58

over every scene. She's so well- Yeah. Yeah.

16:02

And our deal with Frances is that she's just as

16:04

smart as Jane, obviously, but she's figured out how to

16:06

get what she wants within the system. And

16:08

Jane wants to do that outside of the system.

16:11

And she's been a player in this game for

16:13

a long time. She sees

16:15

the angles that sometimes perhaps Jane, because

16:17

of her age and experience, doesn't. Yes.

16:21

Yeah. For sure. And she's not nice

16:23

about it. That is very true. But

16:25

we need those characters, you know? Absolutely.

16:28

No, we love her. She's really, really,

16:30

really cool. Yeah. She really

16:32

does. Yeah. Yeah. She

16:34

really does. on

16:37

between a group called the Etheans and the

16:39

Verities. I love this element. It's so fun.

16:42

So for those who haven't seen the show

16:44

yet, Etheans are these kind of shape shifters.

16:47

They can change from human to animal. And it's

16:49

really cool to see on screen. Verities

16:52

are just regular humans, but specifically ones

16:54

that despise Etheans. So could you tell

16:56

us more about the dynamic between these

16:59

two groups? Absolutely. So

17:02

during this time, and this is a

17:04

very clever fantasy twist that

17:06

the book puts on this

17:08

time period is that instead

17:10

of Protestants versus Catholics, you

17:12

have Etheans versus Verities. And

17:16

there's just, you know, it's

17:18

a wonderful metaphor for any kind of otherism

17:21

throughout history. We thought that it was so elegant.

17:23

We never wanted the show to become like a pure

17:25

fantasy show. We don't want to become a polemic about

17:28

otherism either. We just

17:30

thought it was a very interesting way of, you

17:32

know, looking at history and going, that was ridiculous.

17:34

And then you look at today and you go,

17:36

oh, we're still ridiculous. We humans are still ridiculous.

17:38

I know. We talk about this all the

17:41

time. Like we've learned nothing. Like we

17:43

are just terrible. No, that was so true.

17:46

So Queen Mary, clearly

17:49

the villain here, and

17:51

she's based on the legendary Bloody

17:53

Mary, right? She is. And

17:55

when things be turned up and down, this is

17:58

definitely not something somebody about to sit a history.

18:00

exam should watch. Because... Yeah,

18:05

can you just kind of talk a little bit

18:07

about how you reimagined her character for those who

18:09

haven't seen the show yet? We feel that she

18:11

was justifiably furious that she

18:13

didn't become queen when her father died.

18:16

No, she was at Passover because Edward

18:18

was a boy and he, you know,

18:20

divorced Catherine Barrigan. So officially

18:22

she was a bastard. Yeah, Henry VIII had famously

18:24

set her mother aside. Her mother

18:26

was a very, very

18:29

renowned Spanish princess. And

18:32

so here you have Mary who's brought up from the

18:34

time that she is very, very young to believe that

18:36

she's going to wield quite a lot of power. And

18:39

the world keeps denying her power. She's sort of

18:41

like the dark mirror of Jane,

18:44

in a way. You know, she's a character who wants

18:46

power, but the world will not give it to her.

18:48

And so it forces her into

18:51

some dark directions in her life,

18:53

let's say. And when we

18:55

were writing Mary, we read so many books about her

18:57

and just felt this huge empathy for her. You know,

18:59

she was just like she was her dad's little pearl.

19:02

That's what Henry called her. And then he just cast her aside.

19:05

And you know, it must

19:07

imagine what it did to her psyche

19:09

was lots of fun. And then turning

19:12

it up and making it slightly ridiculous with even more fun.

19:15

I can't imagine having Alan Rickman

19:17

ask villain. Oh, yeah. God, Alan

19:19

Rickman really knew how to be

19:21

a villain. He did. My heart.

19:24

So good. Yeah. Get

19:32

in the car, kids. We're going to T-Mobile. I

19:34

thought we were going to Grandma's. Nope. We're

19:37

switching to T-Mobile. We're getting four 5G

19:39

smartphones and T-Mobile is covering the cost.

19:42

Can I get one with a bigger screen for video

19:44

games? Can I get a pink one? Can we get

19:46

the deal where we get four lines for 25 bucks

19:48

per line a month? Wait.

19:51

Does that mean I get a bigger

19:53

allowance? Oh, that's a

19:55

lot of questions. But yes, yes,

19:58

absolutely. And. Probably

20:00

not. It's better over here.

20:02

Get four 5G phones on us

20:04

and four lines for $25 a

20:06

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21:49

Brilliantly safe. I

21:57

feel like my Lady Jane, it has

21:59

everything. Magic. sex, royal

22:01

infighting. Now, if you had

22:03

to give us a mashup of what this story

22:05

is, like story X meets story Y with a

22:07

twist, how would you both describe it?

22:10

So fans of the Princess Bride meets

22:12

Buffy the Vampire Slayer with a little

22:14

bit of black adder. P.S. Someone

22:18

the other day said it was Bridgerton meets the Boys,

22:20

which made us laugh a lot. We laughed a lot

22:22

because it's over. In

22:24

terms of what inspired us in

22:27

definitely the Princess Bride, you know,

22:29

Willow the movie, the labyrinth, Robin

22:31

Hood, Prince of Thieves, Night's Tale

22:34

and Night's Hail. Night's Tale. Yeah.

22:38

That's a good one. So before My Lady

22:40

Jane Became a Show, like we said, it

22:42

was a popular historical fiction novel by Cynthia

22:44

Hand, Brody Ashton and Jodie

22:47

Meadows. Gemma, in addition to

22:49

being a TV writer, you're also an author.

22:52

So how familiar were you with the novel

22:54

when it came out? And why did you

22:56

want to adapt it for television? Oh,

22:59

well, I have a good origin story. This is

23:01

true. I was on the subway in New York

23:04

with my children and I saw a girl about 18

23:06

or 19. She was reading

23:08

the book up close to her face, like I'm

23:10

holding my hands up. And

23:12

so I got my, I was with my kids, I got

23:14

my phone out, bought the book on

23:16

the app right away, got home, didn't read the

23:18

back of it, didn't read anything about it, just

23:20

read the books. I thought anyone reading a book

23:22

that closely, it's got to be good. And I

23:25

fell completely in love with it. I said it

23:27

was so fresh, so clever. So

23:29

well written, so romantic. I just

23:31

adored it. So we came in

23:33

this book as fans, really. Fans worse.

23:36

I always wonder how that process works,

23:38

like adapting a book into a TV

23:40

show or movie. How did

23:42

you decide what to change, what to

23:44

keep? Are there any scenes that were

23:47

particularly tricky to navigate during the process?

23:50

Well, not tricky because honestly, the

23:52

book's so well written and beautiful. What's

23:54

interesting of her and having been an author,

23:56

you know, writing for a book

23:58

and then writing for a visual. storytelling is

24:00

very different. You need to have an awful

24:02

lot more story, a lot more characters, a

24:05

lot more narrative arcs. So

24:07

you just need more, basically. Yeah.

24:10

And we obviously treated it with

24:13

so much respect. We love the tone. And

24:15

there was at the center of it Jane.

24:17

Yeah. Which was our North, she was our

24:19

North star always, always. And we were so

24:21

fortunate to, you know, have such incredible source

24:24

material to draw from. Yeah. It's a great

24:26

character. Was there like a big change you

24:28

made? We took a lot

24:30

of characters from real life that didn't

24:32

make it into a book. Okay. Because

24:35

we do not need for a book,

24:37

you do need a television. So we

24:39

just went back to the original source

24:41

material of real life, took those characters

24:44

and used them. So Gemma, some of

24:46

your novels have been described as new

24:48

adult, which basically fills the gap between

24:50

young adults and more mature adult genres.

24:53

My Lady Jane, the book is

24:55

considered young adult, but the show

24:57

definitely feels more mature. Where

25:00

would you say the show is on this

25:02

spectrum? Such an interesting question. We

25:04

hope that this show honestly is for everybody.

25:07

Absolutely. It's a show that you can watch with your

25:09

mother. Yeah. We wanted something you could watch with your

25:11

mother or you could watch with your daughter if she's

25:13

over about 12 or 13. Yeah. You

25:16

got to learn sometime, you know? You really

25:18

do. You really do. Yeah. How did writing

25:20

this show for streaming impact the

25:23

story? Like, do you think things

25:25

would have been different or if they would have

25:27

been different, how would they have been different if

25:29

it were premiering on network television? Interesting question. Very

25:32

interesting question. One thing

25:34

that's so freeing about streamers

25:37

is that you have this

25:39

opportunity to tell stories on a

25:41

much larger canvas right now. I

25:44

think we shot

25:46

at the locations, the castles, the

25:48

costumes, the production value. Yeah. Being

25:51

able to tell this story at

25:53

that scale is such

25:55

a privilege. Yep. That's exactly right. Plus

25:57

you can say far. That's

26:01

the real takeaway. Are there

26:03

any fun stories you

26:05

can share about working with this cast?

26:08

Sure, well, we

26:11

filmed part of episode

26:13

8 at Dover Castle standing in for the

26:15

Tower of London. We filmed in November. And

26:18

if someone says to you, do you want to go

26:20

hang out in Dover for a week in November and

26:22

film something at night? The answer is no, because the

26:24

weather was near God, we couldn't film. Oh no! We're

26:28

stuck on this thousand-year-old castle

26:30

on a piece of rock in

26:32

Dover. And I think Dominic went

26:34

to explore and look for ghosts

26:36

with Anna Chancellor. And then

26:38

quickly decided to add up Dan and went to get

26:41

hot chocolate instead. That honestly sounds

26:43

like a dream. And

26:47

like the makings of a really solid

26:49

Netflix holiday rom-com. Or like

26:51

a rom-com-y. And now it's a show.

26:54

Yeah, there it is. So

26:57

this was such a fun watch.

27:00

I know I've said it a hundred times already, but I am

27:02

dying to know what's next for you two. Please

27:04

say sleep. Never.

27:09

For a while. Well, we feel like Jane's story

27:11

isn't finished, so we'll wait and see. Okay,

27:13

good answer. Gemma and

27:15

Meredith, thank you so much for joining us

27:17

here on Even The Royals. This was a

27:20

real treat. Thank you so much for having

27:22

us. Absolute pleasure. Coming up,

27:24

you'll hear our chat with Emily Bader, the

27:26

breakout star of My Lady Jane, and

27:28

what it was like to become Jane Grey. We

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28:43

Welcome back to this extra special episode

28:45

of Even the Royals. Today, we're focusing

28:47

on the brand new series, My Lady

28:49

Jane, streaming now on Amazon Prime. And

28:51

we are so excited to have one

28:53

of the show's breakout stars with us,

28:56

the talented Emily Bader. Emily, welcome to

28:58

Even the Royals. We're so excited to

29:00

have you. Hi. Oh

29:02

my gosh. Thank you so much for

29:04

having me. This is crazy. It's like

29:06

a real podcast. It is.

29:08

It's real. Yeah. We say that every day. We're

29:10

like, wow, this is real. Yeah. Thank

29:13

you guys so much for having me. Yeah.

29:15

We're so excited to have you. We

29:17

absolutely adored you in this. You brought

29:20

Jane Grey to life so

29:22

beautifully. Thank you. I got

29:25

to know whenever something like this happens

29:27

and someone plays a character who is

29:29

real so well, I got

29:31

to know how much about her real story did

29:33

you know before working on the show? Well,

29:36

you know, I wasn't formally

29:38

educated being from America on

29:40

the Tudor period, but I

29:43

knew very little about her until I got

29:45

the project. And I think

29:47

the world sort of knows very little about

29:49

her in part because at the end of

29:52

her life, everyone was trying to save their

29:54

head. So who knows really what

29:56

actually happened. Right. Because

29:59

everyone kind of. and just said, oh,

30:01

I'm with her, I'm over here. But

30:05

with the things we did know,

30:07

she was incredibly well educated, which

30:09

was a unique quality that we

30:11

definitely wanted to bring to this

30:14

story and something that made

30:16

me initially really excited to get

30:18

to play a character like this.

30:20

She has interests in the natural

30:22

world and herbology, which it just

30:25

shows how one of the

30:27

things she was doing to like shirk

30:29

expectations of that time period, doing something

30:31

that women were not at all expected

30:33

to do. Yeah, I was actually

30:35

curious if she was really doing that in real life or if

30:37

that was part of the show. So it's good to know that

30:40

she actually was really into that in real life. We

30:42

have limited knowledge of it, but in

30:44

her history, she had interests in that

30:47

world. She also was known to be

30:49

like a polyglot, which is something that

30:51

we brought into the show. She

30:55

knew a bunch of different languages. I tried to

30:57

learn Latin when we were filming. It

30:59

was a crazy idea. I don't know why I thought

31:01

I'd have time to do that. I did

31:03

it for like two weeks. Then I was like, you know, it's gonna

31:06

be amazing. Well, you knew enough to school, what's

31:09

his face in such a beautiful way? That's

31:12

right. It's a pronunciation. It's

31:14

just like, look, if you're gonna recite a

31:16

Latin poem, like get it right, you know

31:18

what I mean? Exactly. You're gonna show both,

31:20

do it correctly, you know? It's

31:23

just really embarrassing, if we're just being honest.

31:27

Well, speaking of accents, you

31:29

have an incredible English accent. Like we, our producer

31:31

was talking about it. She thought you were really

31:33

British. I actually thought you were too until I

31:36

was looking at your IMDB. And I was like,

31:38

she is from California. Like I was like, okay.

31:41

That's so good, thank you. And

31:43

people will let you know, trust me if it's

31:45

not good. We've definitely. Oh, I know.

31:48

I know people would always say, you know, your

31:50

British accent's like pretty good. And

31:53

I was like, guys, if it

31:55

wasn't good, you

31:57

would be in big trouble. Like that would be, big

31:59

shoes. Yeah. Yeah. Did

32:01

you have a language coach or is that just something that...

32:04

Yeah. Okay, nice. You

32:06

know, I came into it from a pretty okay place, you

32:09

know, just really because I've seen the 2005 Pride and

32:11

Prejudice movie like 10,000 times. That's a

32:14

good study. Research. That's

32:16

research. Yeah. Yeah. And

32:19

so I basically just copied Keira Knightley for

32:21

the audition, like vocally. But then I had

32:23

the most amazing dialect coach, Louise Jones, who

32:25

at this point, like, it's one of my

32:27

favorite people on the planet. And

32:30

we work together really well. Nice.

32:33

You know, like, it can be such a technical thing. Yeah.

32:36

And I'm not a very technical person. My

32:39

brain doesn't really work that way. So she

32:42

would find ways to make it click in

32:44

my head. Nice. And it

32:46

was really just like a lifeline for me.

32:48

Angel, that woman. Yes, definitely.

32:51

So Emily, what was the audition process like

32:53

for this role? Yeah.

32:55

You know, it started out pretty typical. I got

32:57

the audition, begged my team

32:59

to help me get it, and then

33:02

I didn't hear anything for three months. Yeah. So

33:04

I assumed that it was a no. And then this

33:07

very cliche thing happened where I decided for

33:09

the first time in five years to leave

33:11

the country. Oh. The

33:13

day that I landed in Sweden, I

33:16

got a call that I needed to be back in LA.

33:19

Oh, no. That makes sense. Yeah. It's

33:21

that's what you get. I always tell people you want to

33:23

get this job, you should leave. You should go on vacation.

33:25

Yeah. I could get the job. That's

33:28

one way to end a vacation. Like, I could get behind that.

33:30

I really didn't think I was going to get it. Wow. So

33:33

it was shocking. And life changing, really. I

33:35

cried. Yeah. I

33:38

imagine. Of course. So how did you

33:40

get started in acting? Was that something that you always wanted to

33:42

pursue? I think, I think,

33:45

yeah, I didn't really know about it until

33:47

I started thinking about what to do after

33:49

high school and realized I wasn't good at

33:51

anything else. Right.

33:53

Yeah. But yeah, I'm

33:56

a huge movie fan. Like massive

33:58

movie nerd. The

34:00

reason I wanted to be in this business

34:03

is because I'm such a fan. I was

34:05

always printing out movie scripts when I was

34:07

a kid and reading Alice's lines from Alice

34:09

in Wonderland or Kiki's delivery service. I would

34:12

print the script online, drive my parents insane.

34:15

The cost of ink. Right,

34:17

the cost of ink on the family printer,

34:19

forget about it. It's a lot, it's crazy.

34:22

Yeah, I could actually see you playing Alice. That

34:25

would be a really good role for you actually. Put

34:27

that into the universe. It's out there.

34:29

I can see it, definitely. Yeah. I

34:32

could shed a tear. I've always

34:34

been very fascinated in that

34:36

part of this business, which is I got

34:38

to play with that fantastical element in this

34:41

show, which I was so fortunate because I've

34:43

always been like a Tim

34:45

Burton, Dark Crystal,

34:48

the last unicorn, weird

34:50

kid. And to

34:53

get to sort of play into

34:55

something that has fantasy elements, true

34:57

fantasy elements was so exciting for

34:59

me. So I'm curious where

35:01

you pulled your inspiration from

35:04

for this version of Jane. Was

35:07

there any characters or anything specific that you

35:09

pulled from? I always

35:11

am going to be like, I love

35:13

movies. So there's a little bit of

35:16

Elizabeth Bennett in the speed

35:20

at which they banter.

35:23

This sort of verbal sparring, especially

35:25

between Jane and Guilford, is that

35:27

quick back and forth, which I

35:29

definitely took inspiration from Darcy

35:31

and Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice. But

35:33

it's funny because our director Jamie Valbitt

35:35

told me when I first got to

35:37

London, she said, you ever get lost,

35:40

watch Gemma and act like Gemma. Interesting,

35:43

okay. Because really personality-wise,

35:46

Jane and Gemma

35:48

are sizzling at people. That's what I wrote.

35:50

She wrote it. That makes sense, yeah. And

35:52

I think part of the reason I got

35:54

this job is that me and Gemma are

35:56

the same person. Gemma

35:58

is fun. She

36:00

seemed really fun. She's just on the show.

36:03

Gemma and Meredith are the best. They are.

36:05

We were talking about it last night. Yeah.

36:07

We have a sleepover on Thursdays and we were talking

36:10

about, because we had talked to Gemma and Meredith and

36:12

I was like, they remind me of us. Like they're

36:14

French and just seem so genuine and they're very supportive

36:16

of each other. You guys would have so much fun

36:18

at like a cocktail bar. Yeah. Well,

36:21

we're gonna be doing game night, so. Or game night. Yeah, we're

36:23

gonna go over to the UK and. Yeah, yeah.

36:25

We'll see you over there, Emily. Come over.

36:27

Yeah, yeah. Hopefully I'll be there. Yeah.

36:31

Been here for so long now. But

36:34

we actually, we talked about this with

36:37

Gemma and Meredith but your chemistry with

36:39

Edward, who plays Jane's husband, Guilford, like

36:41

we just talked about, is just electric.

36:44

Did that come naturally for you both?

36:46

Was that a lot of practicing? It

36:48

just, so seamless it seems. You know,

36:50

sometimes it is, it does take more

36:52

work. Depends really, but

36:54

it was pretty easy. We,

36:57

I always say we're like two

36:59

little children causing chaos. We're just

37:01

like the same person and

37:04

really just became absolute best friends.

37:07

That makes it fun. And also I think

37:10

our sense of humor is similar. And I think

37:12

that's really important with Jane and Guilford because their

37:14

sort of love language

37:17

is that like snarky, witty sort

37:19

of jab at each other. I

37:22

mean, I feel like in general,

37:25

the dynamic between all the characters was very

37:27

real feeling. Like the relationship

37:29

between Jane and her sisters was super sweet

37:31

and her friendship with the king. And

37:35

we've already talked to Gemma Meredith

37:37

about how amazing Lady Francis is. Like

37:40

she's just iconic. Isn't she just

37:43

insane? She's insane. I love her so much. So

37:46

I'm curious, like what was it like on set for this? It

37:48

sounds like it was a lot of fun. It's

37:52

funny, all the relationships are pretty

37:54

true to life except Jane's

37:56

relationship with her mom is strained. Yeah,

38:00

a little bit. Yeah, just a little

38:02

bit. It couldn't be more different than

38:05

my relationship with. And she was like

38:08

our leader, our fearless leader,

38:10

and our just caretaker, really. She was

38:12

just such a rock, taught me so

38:14

much. But the

38:17

craziest thing about this show, and I think it really does start

38:19

from the top, it starts from the

38:22

leading women that got to choose this

38:24

cast. But I think it's pretty rare

38:26

to have an ensemble of, I

38:28

don't know, 10 actors

38:30

who are notoriously complicated

38:32

people get along.

38:35

Like we all loved each

38:37

other. It was like the craziest family.

38:40

The most fun dinner party you'd ever

38:42

see is like all

38:44

these amazing people. Like Anna,

38:47

Rob, Jim Broadbent, Dominic Cooper,

38:49

Kato Flynn, these like comedic

38:52

geniuses. It was so fun.

38:54

I feel like that comes through in a show too,

38:56

when the cast really gets along. It just comes through

38:58

in a way that makes the show even better. And

39:01

you don't even realize it. It's

39:03

just, that's enough hearing that. Yeah, I think because we were having fun

39:05

when we were making it. I mean,

39:07

it's really hard work. So to have

39:09

such a support system around you, it

39:12

gave you electricity every morning, showing

39:14

up when you're exhausted and sleep

39:16

deprived. So I'm glad that you

39:18

think that that came across. Yeah,

39:20

definitely. So Emily, what's next for

39:23

you? Well. Alice

39:26

in Wonderland, of course. Alice

39:28

in Wonderland, please, please, come on,

39:30

podcast. I'm a really

39:32

good manifestor. I will tell you that.

39:35

She is. She'll run her mouth about

39:37

that till the end of time. I

39:39

did an amazing movie, a great

39:42

indie film that's sort of in the same

39:45

vein, similarly enough, about a young woman trying

39:48

to find her voice in a world that

39:50

doesn't have one, but in a completely different

39:53

genre. Yeah, exactly. Which accent do

39:55

you use for this one? Staten Island. Ooh.

39:59

It's called. Fresh Kills, which

40:01

is actually in theaters now in

40:04

New York, LA and other cities. Both

40:07

of these things I shot two years ago and

40:09

now they're both coming out in the same month.

40:12

So it's really- It's gonna be a busy month. Yeah.

40:15

But otherwise nothing on the roster.

40:17

Okay. Sleep maybe, relaxing.

40:20

Yeah, mental

40:22

preparation. Yeah. And

40:25

then Alice in Wonderland. And then Alice in

40:27

Wonderland. Yeah, obviously. That'll take up your time

40:29

for sure. Yeah. Okay,

40:31

well Emily, that's all we have for you. Thank you

40:33

so much for joining us. You are a delight. You

40:35

are so good in this. Yes. Which

40:38

shows amazing. Oh, thank you so much. You're gonna

40:40

do so much more after this. I just know

40:42

it. You're so talented. Invite me to do the

40:44

sleepover next time. Absolutely. Oh, for sure. We'll work

40:46

on our accents together. Yeah, yeah, we'll do a

40:48

bunch of accents. It'll be horrible. It'll be great.

40:51

Thanks, Emily. Thanks, guys. Thanks,

40:53

Emily. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone. Bye.

40:57

Bye. Bye. Bye. Skidmore

41:23

Williams. Kelly Kyle wrote and produced

41:26

this episode. Additional audio assistance by

41:28

Sergio and Riekes. Our associate

41:30

producer is Hannah Ward. Our coordinating

41:32

producer is Taylor Sniffen. And our

41:34

managing producer is Sophia Martins. Julie

41:37

Magruder and Rachel Engelman are our

41:39

producers. Peter Arcuny is our senior

41:41

producer. Our executive producers are Jenny

41:43

Lower Beckman, Jenny Bloom, Marshall Louis,

41:45

and Aaron O'Flaherty for Wondering. My

41:56

name is Georgia King, and I am thrilled to be on the show. host

42:00

of And Away We Go, a brand

42:02

new travel podcast on Wondery Plus

42:04

where we'll be whisked away on

42:06

immersive adventures all around the world.

42:08

Where we go, what we do,

42:10

what we eat, drink and listen

42:12

to will all be up to

42:14

my very special guests. We've got

42:16

Ben Schwartz taking us on a

42:18

whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat

42:20

a bowl of life-changing pasta with

42:22

Jimmy O. Yang in Tuscany, Italy.

42:24

And how do you feel?