0:04

Welcome to Everything Scary . My name is Lynn and I'm here

0:06

with my co-host local celebrity , sorry

0:09

, sorry , international celebrity . Thank you , matt

0:11

McClain .

0:12

Hello , hello .

0:14

Every Tuesday we release a new episode , mostly

0:16

true crime , but we've also been known to cover a

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pandemic , a haunting , a super mad , super

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strong chimpanzee . We'll cover anything

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and everything scary . Please rate us five

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stars and join us on Instagram at Everything Scary

0:26

Pod . Here we go , hello

0:31

, hello .

0:33

Oh , hello , dear .

0:34

You know I stole your line . Eh , that was . You wanted

0:37

that to be your thing on the podcast .

0:38

I stole that from Bababooie

0:41

Bababooie From the Howard

0:43

Stern show on his . He had a tape , some

0:45

girl dumped him or whatever and he in the 80s

0:47

he filmed a like I guess , take

0:49

me back , kind of video .

0:50

And he said hello , hello . Yeah , it was like the most cringiest

0:53

thing in the world Like a listener

0:56

ended up finding it .

0:57

and then they he got paid 10 grand

0:59

to play the tape on the Howard Stern

1:01

show Like the actress . Or Bababooie Crazy

1:04

, this one , that .

1:05

I'm doing right now is a Patreon episode

1:07

. Ooh , we love our Patreon

1:10

And this one , matt , is a head

1:12

scratcher . All right , you are going

1:15

to be floored , okay , so buckle

1:17

in . All right , let me get my first

1:20

I want to give some shout outs to our newest

1:22

Patreons , uh

1:24

.

1:25

Korra B .

1:26

Andrea L , mandy

1:29

R And I think we already shut it out Brittany

1:31

W Last time , but I do believe that's your sister's friend

1:33

, so I wanted to double down and make sure we got her .

1:35

All right , mandy R , brit , brit , brit , brit

1:37

, brit . What up , that's right , i missed a seven

1:39

Oh five .

1:44

Have you remembered any ?

1:45

wide ? No , I don't think so . Oh

1:48

, okay , Well why is she pretty ? I don't

1:50

know .

1:50

She's your sister's friend .

1:50

Oh I don't know , i'm not sure , i'm not sure . Oh , i

1:53

don't know . My sister hangs out with a lot of agos . I'm

1:56

only saying that because I know she has

1:58

a couple of friends that listen to .

2:02

And they're not agos . No . It's

2:05

ironic because they're so beautiful .

2:06

Yeah , it's like big fat guys named tiny

2:08

.

2:08

Yeah . Some oak shows , so

2:12

this one for the Patreons and it's

2:15

an extremely unbelievable case . We're going

2:17

to get into it and I just want to know your thoughts

2:19

are because for me personally , i think

2:21

the ruling in this case and the

2:23

actual truth behind what happens

2:25

here are two completely different

2:28

things , and it's not even like you're

2:30

like well , i can kind of see where they were coming from . Yeah

2:32

, it's like you need to give your fucking

2:35

head a shake Like OJ . Oj

2:37

is more believable than this case . Whoa

2:39

Pitcher , oj . Okay , but

2:42

OJ's defense was Nicole stabbed herself a bunch

2:44

of times . Come again , yeah

2:46

, that's his defense . And the people are like

2:48

yep , nope , that works for us . So

2:51

before we get into it again

2:54

, i wanted to mention off the top I said it in our regular

2:56

feed , but I am going to say it again here We

2:59

were given the opportunity to do a case that

3:01

I didn't feel comfortable taking

3:03

on because of legalities and

3:05

whatnot . But Kendall

3:07

Ray did a huge covering of

3:09

the case . It's Freedom for Gracie

3:11

and Kendall Ray . her episode

3:13

that dropped on it was June 8th And

3:16

that is true crime

3:18

with Kendall Ray June 8th

3:20

. in the episode is called Hit by His Own Truck

3:22

. There's a bunch of petitions that

3:24

you can sign and you can go to the Freedom for

3:26

Gracie Instagram page . It's

3:28

really really very important that we get eyes on

3:30

this case . So the least I could do

3:32

was mention it again and hopefully you

3:35

know something will stir up and

3:37

We're just a tad shy

3:39

because the I guess

3:42

person attached to this case

3:44

is extremely litigious

3:46

. Yes , you're not confident

3:48

enough . And you can say that word super

3:51

good . So

3:54

, yes , please listen to Kendall Ray , because you know

3:56

she needs the followers . She's

3:58

only like a bunch of million , but you know

4:00

.

4:01

I mean , she did the due diligence , had a lawyer with her as

4:03

well , so

4:06

we're just waiting for her to get back to us .

4:08

Yeah , no , i called him . He said Monday , monday

4:10

for sure Okay cool , cool , cool , cool . For sure

4:12

he's getting back to us . Okay , we

4:19

wanted to get some of that straight for you who

4:22

worked for NBC , sam Goldberg . The

4:25

two had met through a friend and they had gone on

4:27

a blind date and they hit it off . Oh , nice

4:29

. Sam proposed to Ellen while the two were

4:31

vacationing together in 2010 . And

4:34

well , on the beach , sam got down on one knee and

4:36

he asked Ellen to marry him , and she said

4:38

yes . Did you listen to the 911

4:40

call I sent ?

4:41

you ? Yes , he did . I did because it first

4:44

. I listened to it and I stopped at five seconds .

4:46

Because you were like what ? Why

4:48

is this woman a 911 ?

4:49

operator , i know , i know , and then him

4:51

like .

4:53

Do you think he was full of shit ?

4:54

Yes , 100%

4:56

Right It , just

4:59

when he's like well then like okay

5:01

, please , no , please , help me . Yeah

5:03

, you gotta do chest compressions and CPR .

5:05

Take your shirt off .

5:06

Oh God , oh , it's not one of those that comes undone

5:08

, it's with a zipper . Guess why the zipper

5:10

was invented , fuckface . It's like get

5:12

things open quicker . Anyways , he tackles

5:15

the zipper , gets through . He's like oh

5:17

, whoa , whoa , it just

5:20

whoa , whoa . What

5:22

is this ? Oh my God , this is the craziest

5:24

discovery There's a knife inside of her .

5:26

Oh my God , okay . So

5:28

their wedding was scheduled for August of

5:31

2011 . Ellen was born

5:33

on June 23rd 1983

5:35

. Her parents were Sandy and Joshua Greenberg

5:37

. Ellen was their only child and

5:40

the parents absolutely adored her . Josh

5:42

said that when she was little , she would attend

5:44

sporting events with him and was always happy

5:46

and enthusiastic to be there . Ellen

5:49

had one of the biggest , most beautiful smiles

5:51

and it was infectious . I sent you that

5:53

picture , okay , like if your smile

5:55

brightens up a room , stay

5:57

home . She

5:59

had gone to Penn State and got her degree in communications

6:02

and then , in a move that

6:04

surprised absolutely no one , ellen went

6:06

to Temple University and got her teaching degree

6:08

.

6:09

I thought I was surprised with that move actually .

6:11

Oh well , I wouldn't

6:13

say surprise no one , I was like Temple this time of

6:15

year , matt McClain was surprised about

6:17

Ellen Greenberg's teaching

6:19

degree Post . Ellen

6:23

loved children and she was fantastic with

6:25

them , so when she went to school

6:27

for teaching , everyone believed that it would be the perfect

6:30

fit for her , and Ellen's friends

6:32

would say of her that she was one of those

6:34

friends that was always there if you needed , like if you were gonna

6:36

call somebody and you really wanted to talk . Ellen

6:38

was that person . Ellen was a

6:40

first grade teacher at Junita Park

6:42

Academy in Philly And she

6:45

and Sam lived in a gorgeous , very

6:47

modern looking apartment complex . They

6:49

were on the sixth floor and had ground

6:51

to ceiling windows , whichever

6:54

since , we covered the Connor Clapton

6:56

episode .

6:57

Yeah , really Has scared the shit

6:59

out of me .

6:59

I could call But they look beautiful for

7:02

someone else's home .

7:03

I don't know if I deal with that . With

7:06

so many windows just dirty on the outside

7:08

, you gotta wait for somebody else to clean them .

7:10

Yeah , yeah , and you can't

7:12

walk around in the buff because really you're

7:14

just in an aquarium , that is true

7:16

.

7:17

I like to be naked . I'm

7:20

naked right now .

7:21

It's a patron . We know this .

7:23

We're both are naked .

7:25

We're not both naked , just

7:27

she is . So

7:30

everything was seemingly going to plan

7:32

, but Ellen began complaining to friends

7:34

and family that she was dealing

7:36

with nearly debilitating

7:38

anxiety , which was

7:40

new . Her friends had just

7:42

assumed that , with the wedding planning and work

7:44

, she had a lot on her plate , but she

7:46

had actually even contacted her

7:48

parents and asked them if she could come home and live

7:51

there for a bit . It was

7:53

now January of 2011 when

7:55

Ellen mentioned to her mom that she had wanted to come home for a

7:57

bit . Her mom was shocked . like , ellen's

7:59

parents lived in Harrisburg , pennsylvania , which

8:01

was nearly about a two hour drive away from

8:04

her work and her fiance , oh wow . Her

8:06

mother encouraged her to see a therapist before making

8:08

any decisions that would add to her stress

8:11

. She said that Ellen had made it clear

8:13

that she still wanted to move forward

8:15

in her relationship with Sam . They

8:17

were not breaking up , but she wanted to come

8:19

home . After talking

8:22

her daughter down , ellen agreed to seek professional

8:24

help and she was matched with a therapist

8:26

who would share a name with her . This

8:28

was Dr Ellen Berman . It should be

8:31

noted here at a later time , when

8:33

Dr Berman's notes were turned over to

8:35

the authorities , that the doctor specifically

8:37

noted that Ellen was not

8:39

a risk for suicide . Okay , made a point Yes

8:42

, so this will become important . The doctor prescribed

8:45

her clonopan and Ambien to

8:48

help her sleep And the reason

8:50

Dr Berman noted that Ellen was not a risk

8:52

for suicide was because both of these medications

8:54

have thoughts of

8:56

suicide listed as a possible side effect , and

8:59

if you already have these thoughts , it

9:01

couldn't handsome . So the doctor did her due

9:03

diligence and made sure that Ellen was not a risk

9:06

before prescribing the medications . Ellen

9:08

would tell Dr Berman that just

9:11

recently she had become super anxious

9:13

and where she used to be very extroverted

9:15

and confident , ellen expressed that she had

9:18

lost that confidence and was very unsure of

9:20

herself . Now .

9:21

And regressed .

9:22

Yes , after Ellen

9:24

began taking the medication as

9:26

recommended , she had

9:28

seen her therapist about three times at

9:30

this point And she had called

9:32

her mother and said that she felt as though her new

9:34

meds were really starting to work . She

9:37

felt less stress than she had in a long time and

9:39

she was actually finally sleeping again . And

9:41

her mother told her daughter that she was happy that she

9:43

was feeling better , but that she needed to continue

9:45

to make sure that she was seeing the therapist because

9:47

it wasn't gonna be a quick fix . And

9:50

Ellen agreed . Ellen had a

9:52

best friend named Allison who

9:54

had been her bestie since the girls were about 10 . And

9:57

Allison would confirm that during this time

9:59

Ellen was not at all herself And

10:01

that she felt as though she would have

10:04

to turn to Sam to

10:06

make any of her even like simplest decisions

10:08

, like going out with her friends and stuff she would have to talk to

10:10

Sam about .

10:11

So really kind of starting to see

10:13

the controlling .

10:14

Yeah , yeah . She would

10:16

say that they both had gotten

10:18

engaged around the same time Ellen

10:21

and Allison did And on one

10:23

occasion had gone dress shopping together

10:25

. Allison said that the typically well put

10:27

together Ellen would come out looking

10:29

a hot mess And

10:31

like her hair was in brush and no

10:33

makeup on . She was just like wearing you

10:36

know , sweatpants . And while dress

10:38

shopping , ellen would even begin to start

10:40

crying Just

10:42

started crying , yeah And

10:44

she would apologize to her friend for bringing

10:46

down such you know , it should have been such a happy

10:48

occasion . So that takes us to

10:50

Wednesday , january the 26th of 2011

10:53

. Philly had been

10:55

hit with a snowstorm in between

10:57

January the 25th to January the 27th

11:00

. They were expected to get 15 inches

11:02

of snow , which is just over 38 centimeters

11:05

. On

11:07

the 26th , around lunchtime , it was

11:09

decided that Junita Park Academy

11:11

would shut down for the remainder of the day . This

11:14

was the school where Ellen had taught the first

11:16

grade for the past three years . Ellen

11:18

and Sam had just sent out

11:21

their save the dates earlier that week , and

11:23

Ellen decided that she would just go home and she would

11:26

work on more wedding planning . Well

11:28

, she had this unexpected half day off , so

11:31

she stopped on her way home and filled

11:33

up her gas tank right to full , which

11:36

to me is a sign , because I'm not standing

11:38

at the gas pump .

11:40

That's a red flag for you . To

11:42

me , i'm like for you red flag .

11:43

I'm like I'm not stopping at a gas station

11:46

and pumping all if I don't intend

11:48

to use the entire gas tank .

11:50

Right now yeah .

11:51

So she filled her tank not

11:53

long after Ellen arrived at 1 30

11:56

PM at home . Sam got home

11:58

shortly after that And he

12:00

told her he would be going downstairs to their on

12:02

location gym and would get in a quick

12:04

workout . Everything

12:06

in this apartment complex was recorded

12:08

either by key fobs or by surveillance

12:11

, but the cameras were only in

12:13

the lobby , like the bottom area where the gyms are

12:15

and everything like that , not on the residential

12:17

floors Nothing in the hallway

12:19

.

12:19

No , nothing like that .

12:21

So according to Sam's fob key , he

12:23

scanned into the gym at 445

12:26

and when he came back upstairs He scanned

12:28

his card to get into the apartment , but

12:30

the swing lock was engaged .

12:32

With a latch . Yeah , like you did .

12:34

They call it a you lock sometimes .

12:37

The only thing I saw in that video was called the

12:39

swing lock . I I never even I

12:41

call it an external deadbolt because I didn't even

12:43

know it had a name , but it's every hotel rooms . Yeah

12:46

, yeah the little two bars . You put

12:48

the little thing with the ball .

12:49

Yes , so it looks like a sideways

12:52

, you like a long you and then you put it , you

12:54

lock it over to like a a little

12:56

.

12:56

It looks like a coat hanger .

12:59

And it's got a ball on the end of it so that you can't , you know , pull

13:01

open the yearbar . You mainly see them in hotels

13:04

, but it has to be done while somebody's in the room like

13:06

you can't , or

13:10

does it what ? Anyways

13:13

, at 532 , sam

13:15

started to message Ellen , trying to get her

13:17

to come to the door and let him in . His Messages

13:20

went as follows Hello

13:22

, open the door , what

13:24

are you doing ? I'm getting pissed

13:26

. Hello , you better

13:29

have an excuse . What the fuck

13:31

? Ah , you have

13:33

no idea . So

13:38

that last one there , not

13:40

being able to hear the tone , i hear

13:42

it almost like a threat . Like you have no idea what I'm gonna do when

13:44

I get in there . But my fav

13:46

podcast , morbid . They said

13:49

that maybe it was like a

13:51

realization that she had no clue that he was

13:53

out there . Like , oh , you have no

13:55

clue , but I'm even here right , or

13:57

you ? know me , it still sounds threatening . Either way .

13:59

Well , I'm sure we'll get into

14:02

it , but I don't believe anything this guy says or does .

14:05

Sucks um what ?

14:08

Oh , what's the piece of shit alert coming off ?

14:11

So he would even call her multiple times

14:13

and email her to let him in he

14:16

then went down . Hey

14:19

baby , I'm at the front door . You have no idea

14:21

what I'm gonna do when I get in there , So we might want to open that door

14:23

up . He then went downstairs

14:25

to get the security to come upstairs with

14:27

him . Security told him that they could not leave the

14:30

post because They were the

14:32

only ones down there and that that was mandatory . We

14:34

took a note .

14:37

Condo building .

14:45

He's holding . He's got his hand over his heart . Yeah , so

14:48

The security would make

14:50

mention later on that Sam

14:53

didn't look as though he had come

14:55

from the gym . I mean , it's entirely

14:57

possible that maybe he went to the

14:59

gym and then he changed to come upstairs , but

15:01

he wasn't leaving the property .

15:03

So yeah , i lie

15:05

. If you have a gym in your building , it's

15:08

the logical thing to do is just

15:10

change .

15:11

When you get upstairs , have a shower .

15:12

Use your apartment as the change room but

15:14

he was wearing Timbalands . Oh

15:17

which to me , yeah , aren't a

15:19

great workout shoe unless you're George Costanza

15:21

, it's gonna give you that couple extra that left me

15:23

the lift . You do need that lift , not

15:26

me . Ladies , i'm six , two Oh .

15:28

Whoa , somebody just decided to jump

15:30

in here and flex six , seven in heels .

15:38

So like he was so almost

15:40

careful with like , even doing the texts

15:42

, like to keep up the ruse , you would think you would have

15:44

had a legitimate workout like , and it's

15:47

not even like there's certain shoes out

15:49

there that like They're not for working

15:51

out .

15:51

Well , like you can get away with it . Like , maybe like conference

15:53

or something .

15:54

You know , i feel like the also Yeah , yeah , like

15:56

chucks or something .

15:57

Yeah , okay . Yeah , yeah , you would skate shoes

16:00

that would be like me and like my six inch

16:02

pumps , like just being like I . I just came

16:04

from the gym , i don't

16:06

, i just try to walk

16:08

out .

16:10

If you wore those to the next pod .

16:12

I just look like the fucking scarecrow from Wizard

16:14

was . So

16:17

You know , maybe you brought his gym

16:19

clothes and changed out of them , but I mean left

16:21

the shoes . It just seems

16:23

like something else to carry when you don't

16:26

you have to do that .

16:27

You have your key card and your bottle of water .

16:30

That's one of me , do you know ?

16:31

percent fear super sweater . Like you , bully , i

16:35

do have to bring my own towel when I work out .

16:37

Do you like ? to hand towel , but and it's

16:39

just like covered in hair . Hey

16:43

man , what's the towel white a second ago Why do you

16:45

have a wool rug ?

16:51

Are you selling beaver pelts in the alley

16:53

again ? What

16:56

do you have ? all that ?

16:58

The cops are like do you have your Sales

17:01

license out here ?

17:02

Excuse me , sir , are you at the Hudson

17:04

Bay Trading Company in the turn of the century

17:06

?

17:10

So back to this very serious

17:12

case of course . After

17:14

all this , sam took it upon himself to break

17:17

into the apartment . I mean , i don't know

17:19

how strong Sam is , i'm sure he's probably just fine . Yeah

17:21

, but like , if you want to see me just dance

17:23

off a door 35 times and have a humongous

17:25

bruise on my arm , definitely .

17:27

I definitely . Do you go arm first

17:30

or shoulder ?

17:31

first kick it back .

17:32

kick , not a backdrop

17:35

. Okay , like I would turn around , it's a mule kick

17:37

, you know .

17:38

Oh my god , you've

17:42

been watching wrestling for .

17:44

I would do a back kick and then I would do

17:46

maybe take it to the ground .

17:48

I dominate

17:50

.

17:50

I Would

17:52

do a back kick , then a front kick and

17:54

then I would start to use a shoulder

17:56

. Really I would try to kick it open first

17:59

, and that way it's probably the least

18:01

amount of pain You'll be in , for opening a

18:03

door is kicking Huh . So try

18:05

to do that and then okay , close

18:07

the store . I

18:10

don't know , those are heavy .

18:11

Some of them are soundproof they come in on Monday

18:13

and just the doors are all .

18:14

Yeah , I did another pod

18:16

we're testing out a theory

18:19

.

18:19

I was doing a mule kick . So

18:22

, yes , sam ended up getting into the apartment

18:24

. I have my own theories on this one

18:26

but Once he did

18:28

, he found Ellen slumped in a sitting

18:31

up position against the cupboards

18:33

in the kitchen . Okay , so

18:35

She had a half-made

18:38

fruit salad sitting on the counter . Ellen

18:40

was covered in blood . So

18:42

Sam did what any loving fiance would do , and

18:45

he first called his uncle . Now

18:47

, for what it's worth , this uncle

18:49

was judge James C

18:51

Swartzman Oh , who is a prominent

18:54

member of the Pennsylvania judicial system

18:56

and Is currently

18:58

the chairman of ethics and professional responsibility

19:00

group .

19:01

Well , that's a good person

19:03

to call Not

19:05

more important than 911 , although again

19:08

, we're thinking as an innocent

19:10

person what they would do , but of course , So

19:13

once he got off the phone with him

19:15

, he did the right thing and he called his cousin .

19:20

He did but , but . But in

19:23

his defense the cousin was the judge's

19:25

son , so like chain

19:27

of the judge like , yeah , call your

19:29

cousin . Yeah , call him . I'm really

19:31

busy right now And then he would call his parents

19:34

and then at about 633

19:36

he would finally call 911

19:39

.

19:40

Like I just my . I went downstairs

19:42

to go work out . I came back up the door was latched

19:45

, mike's fiance's inside It wasn't

19:47

. She wasn't answering . So after about a

19:49

half hour I decided to break it down . I see

19:51

her now . It's on the floor . What she's not ? she's

19:53

not responding .

19:55

Okay , she breathing .

19:57

Yeah , I .

19:59

Look at her chest . I need you to calm down . I need

20:01

you to look at her chest . It's really .

20:02

I don't think she , i really don't know she is .

20:04

Listen to me . Someone's on the way . Look at her

20:06

chest . Did she flat on her back ?

20:09

She's on her back . Do I bring ?

20:10

her chest and tell me if it's going up and down

20:12

, up and down . I .

20:14

Don't see her moving .

20:15

Okay , do you know how to do CPR ? I

20:17

don't okay , i can tell you what to do . Okay

20:19

, and so they get there . I want you to keep her .

20:21

Oh God hello .

20:23

Yeah , hi , okay , we're gonna do CPR with

20:25

me over the phone , so they get , i have

20:28

to right . Okay , so get her flat on

20:30

her back , bear her chest . Tell you why we're for

20:32

sure , though .

20:33

Shit .

20:35

You'll down by her side .

20:37

Oh my god .

20:38

Alley , please Can't

20:41

freak out .

20:43

Her shirt won't come off into the zipper . Oh

20:46

my god , She stabbed herself . where

20:48

she's going to life ? Oh no , her

20:50

neck sticking out . Oh what , There's

20:53

a neck sticking out of her heart .

20:55

Oh , she's dead , or so .

20:57

I guess , so I don't know where she's fell on it . I don't

20:59

know .

20:59

Okay , well , don't touch it .

21:02

Okay . So I'm just wondering out here now . I mean , what do I do

21:04

?

21:05

I mean you can't if the nicest at her chest

21:07

is going to be kind of hard for you to do CPR at this time ?

21:10

Oh , no , oh , my goodness Oh .

21:12

You and I have both heard it .

21:13

Yeah , bullshit .

21:16

Sounds like a bunch of fucking who we eat in me On

21:18

both sides . But it

21:20

should be said that the

21:22

amount of fear and

21:25

panic that are in this man's voice

21:27

are not representative

21:30

of the same man

21:32

who would call three separate people before

21:35

calling 911 . You know what I mean

21:37

Like if he's Oh my God , get

21:40

over here quick , help me , ellie . Ellie

21:42

, please . Oh my God . She stabbed

21:45

herself . Oh my God . I think she

21:47

stabbed herself or fell on a knife , just

21:49

fucking . It's like that broom trick that everybody

21:51

was doing not too long ago , like right when COVID

21:53

happened , and everybody was like standing the brooms up on end

21:55

. Do you remember that ? No , yeah

21:57

, like it was like something to

21:59

do with outer space . I don't know , don't come at me

22:01

, i don't fucking know what outer space that's , but

22:03

like people were going into , like home hard , don't

22:06

that ?

22:06

Okay , no , what were ?

22:07

you going to say Go ahead , i forgot

22:09

what it was . I

22:13

think , god , you have a short memory . Oh no

22:15

, you know what I was going to do . You're like actually who are you ?

22:17

Because you were like I don't know what goes on in outer space . I was going to

22:19

be like , oh my God , you don't know what outer space is for you , idiot

22:21

. And then I realized I don't know what outer space is for

22:23

. So I'm just going to shut the fuck up and hopefully

22:25

this glass stone doesn't bring my glass

22:28

house or the stone is , bring my glass house

22:30

to crumble .

22:32

But everybody was doing it , where , like you can look it up

22:34

afterwards where , like brooms , you

22:36

would stand them up on their bristles and they would just

22:38

stand And like there people

22:40

were going into like home hardware and stuff like that , and just like

22:42

standing up all the brooms in the aisle , cool

22:45

Yeah . So I don't

22:47

know , but like , how are you falling on a knife ? that's , you

22:49

know , standing up . Unless

22:52

maybe you're holding it and you I don't .

22:54

I . that's my biggest fear , Not biggest , but

22:56

one of them is sometimes I'll have , I'll be holding

22:58

a knife and like a

23:00

falling or tripping or something when

23:02

I'm home alone .

23:03

Are you riding a unicycle ?

23:05

Because that is a no no .

23:10

If you're just standing at your counter , you should be fine

23:12

, that's true , i once jumped into

23:14

bed like literally , literally

23:16

jumped into bed with a Q-tip in my

23:18

ear that I had forgotten about . Like

23:24

that is my like

23:26

I was . I guess I was just doing it and

23:28

then I stopped moving the Q-tip

23:30

around for whatever reason , moved on

23:32

to something else , but I remember being like

23:34

holy shit , that could have gone

23:36

real bad .

23:39

I appreciate you every single day . Thank

23:41

you That

23:43

a Q-tip is not like a take a pause in the middle

23:45

of it kind of activity .

23:46

Oh yeah , I know , I know , I know , I

23:49

know , I know .

23:52

Shit .

23:53

You're like wipe your ass , oh

23:55

boy , oh my ass , i got halfway through that one

23:57

Wipe my ass , go back to my ear

23:59

.

24:01

I better go see a doctor . This

24:04

Q-tip smells like shit .

24:06

Oh my God , wow , i

24:09

just learned a lot about you .

24:12

That's correct . Are you leaving your husband

24:14

for me now ?

24:14

Yes .

24:15

I knew it , that was it .

24:16

Yeah , get him on the horn . We got to talk .

24:19

Get him on the horn . Hey , matt , listen .

24:23

Remember how you always finish up with your Q-tips

24:25

. Yeah , loser The

24:28

problem is you're not letting them sit long enough . You're not

24:30

getting a thorough job .

24:34

Remember how I'm super lazy and don't want to learn

24:36

a new husband's name ? I

24:38

just have everyone Anybody named

24:41

Matt .

24:41

Yeah , that's it . I'm just going to cross

24:44

out his last name on my marriage certificate

24:46

, so

24:49

we're back here . So , yeah

24:51

, he called these three other people before

24:54

potentially saving his fiance's life . I

24:56

would like to preface this by saying strictly

24:58

in my own opinion , this 911 call

25:00

sounds like phony baloney to me . We'll

25:03

be putting it right here so you can hear it

25:05

, but basically it's just like help

25:07

. I need a more

25:09

emergencies And

25:12

this is coming from the person who read

25:14

OJ Simpson's book , and sometimes I had to pull myself

25:17

back because I was starting to fall

25:19

into .

25:19

Oh , give us charm .

25:21

Like I was like come on , nicole .

25:24

And then I was like oh dear , oh boy You're

25:26

damn it , ron , ron , why are you bringing

25:28

those fucking glasses back ?

25:31

So the operator in this call first

25:34

and foremost needs to hand in her keys .

25:36

Yeah , she seemed like a little fucking

25:38

.

25:39

They just needed to like . he needed to take it down

25:41

, She needed to bring it up a little bit .

25:42

Yeah , yeah , i felt she was very short

25:44

with him .

25:45

She was like 911 , what's your emergency ?

25:47

Yeah , yeah , She was just having

25:50

a dart Like fuck , phones ran 911

25:54

, what's your emergency ?

25:57

Because I've never heard someone sound so entirely

25:59

uninterested in something in my

26:01

entire life .

26:03

I know the one phone call that you , that you ever

26:05

, all parties should be super alert

26:07

.

26:07

Right . But when

26:10

she asked Sam to start CPR and he responds

26:12

with well , i guess I have to .

26:14

Yeah .

26:15

He almost sounds as if he's annoyed by the request . When she

26:17

first asks him to , he goes , oh God , like

26:19

disgusted . But again

26:21

, it's just my opinion . But if somebody

26:23

you love is in distress , are you not just like doing

26:26

what you have to do to save that person Not

26:28

?

26:28

being disgusted by I don't know . I wonder if you find

26:30

somebody that you love covered in blood , like I don't

26:32

know if I wouldn't run that . I don't know .

26:35

Okay , well , call off the wedding , sorry

26:39

.

26:39

Now you're back in One while lasted .

26:45

So you know she had a knife sticking out of her heart

26:48

and stabbing themselves

26:50

in the heart . That would not even be on my

26:52

radar . I would not think for a second

26:54

that somebody stabbed themselves in the heart . I would

26:56

be worried that somebody else was still in the apartment .

26:58

Also who talks about the internal organ that

27:00

the knife is hitting , and not like , oh , she was

27:02

stabbed in the chest , stabbed in her

27:04

boob , like , why the heart You

27:07

would go with boob . Well , i just mean that , oh

27:09

God , her boob's ruined .

27:12

I hope you're sending somebody quick , but

27:14

like here's . the thing is like you have a

27:17

chest cavity .

27:18

Yeah .

27:19

That takes a fucking lot to get through . So

27:21

she has . We're going to find

27:23

out . Sorry , i'm going to do a little bit , but

27:25

she has 10 stab wounds

27:27

under the back of her head and the neck and

27:29

20 in total . This

27:32

is her last stab wound , because

27:34

the knife's still in it , right ?

27:36

Yeah .

27:37

So she's stabbed herself 19 times

27:39

. What the ? I didn't know that

27:41

. And then she still has the physical strength

27:44

to break through her chest cavity

27:46

.

27:46

Right , sternum , the whole nine

27:49

.

27:49

All of it . Wow , even the zipper

27:51

that he talks so much about . So

27:54

when first responders responded

27:56

wow , i'm fucking , what order ?

27:59

What'd you say ?

28:00

They got there first , to

28:04

the apartment , it was clear that Ellen was

28:06

beyond help at that point . One thing

28:08

that is worth mentioning , though , is that Ellen

28:10

had blood that ran

28:12

from her nostril up behind her

28:14

ear , which simple

28:17

gravity would tell us that

28:19

that's not the way it works . If she was sitting

28:21

up , it should have gone right to her lip , but

28:24

it was almost as if she had been repositioned At

28:27

640 , seven minutes after

28:29

calling 911 , they would get

28:31

there and they would question Sam , and he would tell his story

28:33

that he went to the gym and then the swing

28:35

bar thing , and he would say

28:37

that security had come with

28:40

him to break down the door , a fact

28:42

that , of course , the security guard denies . He

28:44

was the only one on shift that

28:47

day , and it was policy that he took an oath and

28:49

he had to be in the lobby at all times , so

28:52

he had told Sam that he could not assist him . It

28:54

was also noted that , while Sam claims

28:56

he broke down the door , only

28:58

one screw was missing . The others were

29:01

loose , but the locks was

29:03

still mounted on the door . Oh

29:05

Yeah , So it was Sam's

29:07

father who called Ellen's parents

29:09

and informed them of what had happened to their

29:11

only child . Ellen's

29:14

mom would say that she was an understanding Like

29:16

she couldn't make her mind go there

29:18

. And she asked where

29:20

the ambulance was and he advised her that there was

29:22

no ambulance . And she said at

29:24

this time her husband was not beside her . So she began

29:27

to call for Joss to pick up the landline and

29:29

hear what she was being told . She said once

29:31

, like the realization hit her , what

29:34

Sam was telling her . She said all I know

29:36

is that my world went dark and I have no daughter

29:38

. And to make

29:40

matters that much worse , she

29:42

was snowed in two hours away from

29:44

Ellen .

29:45

Oh fuck , you can't do anything .

29:46

Nothing . Before getting Ellen's

29:49

body to the medical examiner , they had

29:51

already determined that her cause of death was a suicide

29:53

. Yes

29:56

, so listen to the injuries that she had

29:58

. So Ellen had been stabbed

30:00

at least 20 times , 10 of which were to the back of

30:02

her head and her neck , jesus . She had

30:04

a bunch of bruising in various stages

30:06

of healing . She had a

30:09

knife with a serrated blade

30:11

inserted four inches into her chest

30:13

and heart , and it

30:15

was the cops who had ruled this a suicide

30:17

. She had not even been seen by a

30:19

medical examiner at this point , and

30:21

this is not the cops area of expertise

30:24

.

30:24

How does ? okay , even if

30:26

it's my area of expertise , with all those stab

30:28

wounds , you should be able to come up with a not-summified

30:31

I just don't think that you should have the

30:33

right to be able to call it though .

30:35

You know what I mean , Oh that's a good call .

30:36

Yeah , yeah , yeah , okay , sure , yes

30:38

, you're starting more of a fundamental . Yes , uh-huh

30:40

Like , sure , have a medical professional

30:43

.

30:43

That's like your radio broadcaster , thank

30:45

you . If you went out into the front room and you just saw

30:47

somebody , you're like that guy's dead And

30:49

it was a heart attack . And they were like

30:51

okay , Matt from morning fresh

30:54

mornings said it was right at down He's

30:56

a professional . You

30:59

can't . it should be a meta

31:01

, like an ME only is allowed to say that

31:03

, and I always thought , until now , that

31:05

they were the only ones that were allowed to say that

31:07

.

31:07

They were able to pronounce the COD . It's

31:10

cause of that .

31:11

I know , I know what it is . Oh , my bad my bad . Doa

31:14

, oh , ao , wow . So

31:18

, but because the swing bar was

31:20

latch-gorver and they were on the sixth floor

31:23

with no signs of footprints in the fresh snow

31:25

outside of their balcony , this was

31:27

the only viable conclusion . So they

31:29

just took his word for it , and

31:31

And yeah , they said , you know , and

31:33

like I don't know , To me when

31:36

he was like , oh my God , she stabbed herself .

31:37

I know , just to see the name .

31:38

How does your mind to go there ?

31:40

Yeah .

31:41

But Ellen's body would arrive at the city morgue

31:43

the next morning and the medical examiner

31:45

was Marlon Osborne . He would

31:47

label her stab wounds alphabetically from

31:49

A to T . Amongst other

31:51

things , ellen had two stab wounds to the back of

31:54

her neck that were very deep , and

31:56

it was reported that they had punctured the vertebrae

31:58

at C2 and C3 .

32:00

Was she paralyzed then Right here So

32:03

he's saying that they're punctured .

32:05

So it would render her numb

32:07

, but we're going to find

32:10

out later on that another Emmy

32:12

says that they were more than punctured . So

32:15

her toxicology would come back with

32:17

only her prescription medication And

32:19

it was determined that she was taking them as recommended

32:22

. Ellen also had bruising

32:24

and scratches around her neck .

32:26

Ooh .

32:27

Like .

32:28

As most suicides go .

32:30

Yeah , oh , totally Totally , and judging

32:33

by the various sizes of the stab

32:35

wounds , it was said that it was likely that there

32:37

was another knife involved , but

32:39

this could not be confirmed . And one thing

32:41

that I find to be one of the biggest facts

32:44

that does not lend itself to suicide

32:46

is that Ellen had one

32:49

of the stab wounds on the back of her neck that did

32:51

not hemorrhage , which

32:53

would mean that her heart was

32:55

no longer beating when it happened , oh , so there

32:57

was no blood flow . You've got it , which

32:59

begs the question how does somebody who's already deceased

33:01

stab himself ? There was actually

33:04

two wounds on Ellen's body that did not hemorrhage

33:06

, wow . But

33:08

due to all of this , the Emmy overruled

33:10

the cop suicide conclusion and listed

33:13

Ellen's death as a homicide . A

33:16

friend of the family had seen this

33:18

on TV that the ruling had been changed

33:20

, and the friend was actually the one to call

33:22

Ellen's parents and let them know that their only child had

33:25

not taken her own life .

33:27

Whew , that's the only way they found out . Was

33:29

this random person ? Yep .

33:30

Nobody from the nobody called them . On

33:33

January 28th 2011 , was the day

33:35

of Ellen's funeral . Ellen's father , joshua

33:37

, stood up and gave a touching eulogy about

33:39

his daughter And at the end he said you

33:41

may have heard that Ellen killed herself , but

33:44

her death has just been ruled a homicide . Funeral

33:46

attendees said that after that statement

33:49

, you could have heard a pin drop in the temple .

33:51

Really .

33:52

Well , could you imagine You're just sitting there and you're like well

33:55

, yeah , i guess you're dead at funeral , right

33:57

?

33:58

And then someone's bringing up Yeah , yeah .

34:00

Police were quick to announce that the ruling had

34:02

not been made official and only

34:05

that they were going to take a closer look before

34:07

ruling at a suicide . And

34:09

three months after the homicide ruling was

34:11

overturned , they once again listed

34:14

her cause of death as a suicide .

34:17

You could never look at it , yep .

34:20

The ME would later say that he changed

34:22

his ruling because of

34:24

insistence of law enforcement .

34:27

Oh God , what is

34:30

the point to push that narrative of

34:32

a suicide ?

34:33

Well , it could be his uncle .

34:36

Oh , my God , i already forgot about the

34:38

first and second call .

34:41

I'm bringing you fish oil next time , jesus

34:43

. So , sorrell-wetch

34:46

, do you recognize that name ?

34:49

Sorrell , I think they make hiking gear .

34:51

I could be pronounced again , cyrel-wetch

34:54

. It's possible a name that you could recognize

34:56

if I said it properly , but who

34:58

knows ? So he's

35:00

a forensic pathologist who worked

35:03

on the John Benne Ramsey case . He

35:05

was part of the OJ Simpson 1994 case

35:07

And in 1972 , wetch

35:10

was the first civilian ever given

35:12

permission to examine the Kennedy assassination

35:14

evidence . It was Wetch who first

35:17

discovered that Kennedy's brains and all related

35:19

data in the killing had gone missing . He

35:22

was the one who came up with more

35:24

than one bullet theory .

35:26

Right , the counteract that

35:28

has been bullshied .

35:30

He would say that he could not understand

35:33

how this could have possibly been labeled

35:35

a suicide . The stab

35:37

wounds at the back of her head

35:39

alone would tell most people

35:41

that this was clearly not a suicide , but

35:44

on top of that there was blood running from her

35:46

nose that defied gravity And

35:48

furthermore , ellen's aortic arch

35:50

had been stabbed . That

35:52

would result in a lot of blood . That's like

35:54

a muscle that goes around the heart and

35:57

it's got like it puts

35:59

in and puts out blood .

36:01

Okay . I know the aorta is like a huge

36:03

free way . It's the valve that goes right into your heart .

36:05

This one goes over your heart , but it's

36:07

got . yeah , it's a free way of blood . essentially , you

36:10

know there should have been a lot , a lot

36:12

of blood .

36:13

Yeah .

36:13

And while this was a bloody scene , it

36:15

wasn't even close in comparison to what it should

36:17

have been , given the injuries that she

36:19

sustained . But no one did any

36:22

luminal testing , so they

36:24

were unable to determine if blood had

36:26

been cleaned up and if Ellen had been

36:28

positioned in that setting up position . But

36:31

she had a half of a fruit

36:33

salad sitting on the counter , which

36:35

could mean nothing , and it is

36:37

circumstantial at very best . But it's unlikely

36:40

that she would just start making food for

36:42

herself And then , in the middle of it , decide

36:44

to start stabbing herself .

36:46

Right , because if you accidentally like

36:48

, no , it wouldn't be in it . No , it would have to be a suicide

36:50

, you'd have to actively stab . You just go accidental

36:53

.

36:54

It's once you fall on a knife and

36:56

you die For sure , but like it

36:58

might be because I have kids and I'm just like cooking

37:00

is such a hassle now

37:02

because I used to really enjoy cooking

37:04

. But like , since I have kids , it's like it

37:07

never stops .

37:08

It never fucking stops .

37:09

They always eat . It's crazy . It's

37:12

crazy Like I'm not going to start

37:14

something to know I'm going to not complete

37:17

it . But so

37:19

, yeah , she decided midway through that she was going to take her own

37:21

life instead , and she had just sent out the save

37:23

the dates for her wedding . Not

37:26

to mention her computer was opened and she

37:28

had been in the middle of looking at wedding stuff

37:30

, so it didn't make sense , but

37:32

it was closed to suicide . Plus , i

37:34

had mentioned earlier she had 11 bruises

37:36

in various stages of healing . I

37:38

personally bruise very easy , but sometimes

37:41

I have no clue where the bruises even came from . But

37:43

11 does seem like a pretty high number .

37:45

Yeah , probably around the same spot too , i

37:47

would think , if it's a U situation

37:50

.

37:50

What .

37:52

Just the work where you don't know like sometimes you keep

37:54

banging the same part of your elbow in the same

37:56

spot every time , or something .

37:57

I feel like you were going to go somewhere totally

37:59

different with that .

38:00

What like a pervy thing . Yeah , yeah , you weirdo

38:02

, you would

38:04

think that You love

38:06

it .

38:07

Is someone here ? I think somebody is here , yeah , who

38:09

?

38:09

is it ? I don't know , i'm maybe

38:11

the cleaners .

38:12

I think it's the girl from the grudge . She's

38:15

just like The girl from the grudge Scary

38:19

, okay . So Ellen's

38:21

parents would continue to work for their daughter . In

38:24

2014 , they hired private investigator

38:27

Tom Brennan . He had been with

38:29

the Philly PD for 25 years

38:31

and he would say , of Ellen's case I've

38:33

been in this business since 1966

38:35

, and I've never seen anything like it . And

38:38

in 2017 , they would

38:40

consult a different pathologist , lane

38:42

K Ross , and luckily they still

38:44

had in storage at the morgue the

38:46

piece of Ellen's spinal cord that was damaged

38:48

during the stabbing . And Dr Ross

38:50

would go through all of Ellen's case

38:53

as well as the piece of the spinal

38:55

cord , and he would determine that not only

38:57

was Ellen's spinal cord punctured , it

38:59

had been severed .

39:00

Wow .

39:01

He said that would result

39:03

in quote severe pain

39:05

, cranial nerve dysfunction and traumatic

39:07

brain signs , as well as numbness

39:10

, tingling and irregular heartbeat , and

39:12

it left him feeling unsure that Ellen

39:14

would even be able to be physically

39:16

capable of stabbing herself

39:18

. Yeah , which clearly

39:21

had to be like the one in the heart

39:23

, had to be the last stab , right . Because that's where the knife was

39:25

left . And another thing worth mentioning is

39:27

that the knife that was found in Ellen's

39:29

chest was serrated and

39:31

it was from the knife block that they had in their kitchen

39:33

, but the stab wounds that had been inflicted

39:36

on her appeared to be clean cuts , meaning

39:38

that the knife hadn't been serrated . It wasn't like jagged

39:41

cut .

39:41

Right , so the two-knife theory from earlier .

39:43

Yeah , in October of 2019

39:46

, ellen's parents would file a civil suit

39:48

against Marlon Osborn , which was

39:50

the original Emmy , who had

39:52

changed his ruling when he was put under pressure . It

39:55

said that they were seeking monetary

39:57

compensation , but the Greenbergs

39:59

had said that all they wanted

40:01

was for the cause of death to

40:04

be changed from suicide . They didn't even care

40:06

if it was deemed unknown . They could

40:08

live with that as long as the suicide was removed .

40:10

Yeah .

40:11

Sam , her fiance , now lives in New York With

40:14

his wife and two children . he no

40:16

longer works for NBC and now works

40:18

as a producer for the tour coverage

40:20

of the Professional Gaufer's Association

40:22

of America .

40:23

Oh , my God , PGA Golf . I

40:26

hate golf so much .

40:29

And sadly , at this point , that's all we have . You're

40:32

shitting me . It should be known . Are

40:35

we ending the episode ?

40:36

Pretty close . Oh my God , i'm

40:38

thinking we're like getting

40:40

ready for part two or something . I'm

40:43

sorry .

40:44

Oh shit , It should be known not to encourage

40:47

anyone to try it , but there are tons

40:49

of videos on YouTube to show you not

40:52

only can you relock a swing bar , but

40:54

you can unlock it to make entry . I

40:56

sent you one of those videos and I watched

40:58

it and the guy was able to do both locking

41:00

and unlocking with a piece of tweed . Yeah

41:02

, So who's to say ? Ellen's

41:05

parents continue to fight for her until

41:07

this day And , if you'd be interested , their Facebook

41:09

group is called Justice for Ellen and

41:12

you will be able to sign petitions to help the family

41:14

get the ruling changed for their only child . And

41:16

that is the terribly sad and confusing story

41:18

of Ellen Greenberg .

41:20

What a like . I just I you know

41:22

what I hate murderers getting

41:24

away with it Cold Like I know that's

41:26

not a hot take Hold on .

41:27

Hold on Guys . Matt

41:30

doesn't like murderers And

41:32

he hates it when they get away with it , Not a big murder

41:34

guy . That's crazy .

41:36

You just think like that's obviously

41:39

. You know , as far as heinous crimes go

41:41

, murder right up there that

41:43

everybody would have the common goal

41:46

Of no more murders . Just

41:48

yeah , and if you commit a murder , if he's

41:51

your nephew .

41:51

But it's the little boys club , right , I know

41:53

, And it seems like

41:55

because of his uncle he was in that position

41:57

. But it has to make you wonder how many of

41:59

these people who are in such a position

42:02

of authority have a very gray

42:04

stance on

42:06

. like you know , if it's your family , it doesn't . Oh , absolutely

42:09

.

42:09

Well , you just look at how many you know conservative

42:12

lawmakers have backed

42:14

anti-LGBTQ laws And

42:17

then you find out that they've been gay

42:19

with somebody for years , like , and

42:21

it's , you know , it's

42:23

just so hypocritical , it's wild , it is wild .

42:26

But that's our Patreon episode for today .

42:28

Hope you had fun .

42:29

Yeah , enjoy . Hope you enjoy the rest of your day

42:32

. Bye , bye

42:34

.