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I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint

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Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this

2:08

week on Face the Nation, Democrats

2:10

defend President Biden after a disastrous

2:12

debate. And a new CBS

2:15

poll reveals whether it changed the

2:17

way voters see the candidates now.

2:20

President Biden's team sought out Thursday's

2:22

debate to draw contrast with Donald

2:25

Trump and hoped it would soothe

2:27

concerns about the incumbent's age and

2:29

stamina. Instead, after

2:31

meandering frequently hard-to-follow performance,

2:34

not even Mr. Biden's

2:36

closest supporters could ignore the

2:38

obvious. It was a slow

2:40

start. That's obvious to everyone. I'm not going to debate

2:42

that point. That was strike one. If

2:45

this were a ballgame, he's got two more swings. The

2:48

president went on damage control. When

2:50

you get knocked down, you get back up. And

2:53

spent the weekend at fundraisers as

2:55

critics outside some of those events

2:58

and the nation's leading newspapers called

3:00

for him to step aside. Mr.

3:03

Biden said he's staying in the race,

3:06

but some voters are voicing doubt. I'm

3:08

not so sure he's as sharp as

3:11

he should be. After what happened last

3:13

night, Democrats should have

3:15

woke up today with a plan B. We'll

3:17

have results of a new CBS poll.

3:20

Maryland Governor Wes Moore, who is campaigning

3:22

for President Biden, will join us. Meanwhile,

3:25

despite repeatedly making falsehoods on

3:27

stage, former President Trump claimed

3:29

victory. We had a big

3:31

victory against a man that really is

3:34

looking to destroy our country.

3:36

But his legal problems could cut

3:38

that short, as the Supreme Court

3:40

prepares to rule tomorrow on whether

3:43

former presidents are immune from criminal

3:45

prosecution. We'll hear from

3:47

possible Trump running mate, Ohio Senator

3:49

J.D. Vance. Plus, we'll check in

3:51

with Congressman Jim Hines, the top

3:53

Democrat on the Intel Committee, and

3:55

get the latest from the head

3:57

of UNICEF, Catherine Russell, on the

4:00

humanitarian crisis putting millions of

4:02

children at risk around the

4:04

world. It's all

4:06

just ahead on Face the Nation. Good

4:24

morning and welcome to Face the Nation. We

4:27

begin this morning with reaction to the first

4:29

presidential debate of 2024. Our

4:32

polling unit asked voters how they

4:34

view the candidates now, including their

4:37

cognitive health. The results are

4:39

not encouraging for the president. The

4:41

number of voters who say President Biden has

4:44

the cognitive ability to serve has dropped from

4:46

35 percent earlier this month to

4:48

27 percent after the debate.

4:51

That's the lowest number since CBS

4:53

began asking voters that question last

4:55

September. Nearly three

4:57

quarters of all registered voters now

4:59

say he shouldn't be running, and

5:02

nearly half of Democrats say he

5:05

shouldn't remain the nominee. An extraordinary

5:07

number for an incumbent who didn't

5:09

face a competitive primary. We

5:12

should also note that half of

5:14

all voters also say former President

5:16

Trump does not have the cognitive

5:19

health to serve. Voters

5:21

give former President Trump a significant

5:23

edge, though, when asked which candidate

5:25

explained his ideas clearly, inspired confidence,

5:27

and appeared presidential. Joining

5:30

us now to discuss all of this

5:32

is Maryland Governor Wes Moore. He's in

5:35

Milwaukee, where he has been campaigning for

5:37

President Biden's reelection this weekend. Welcome back,

5:39

Governor. Thank you so much. Great

5:42

to be with you. Governor, you

5:44

know it wasn't a good night for the president. And

5:47

I'll save us time because I know you're going to

5:49

tell us, look at presidential

5:51

performance, not debate performance. Everyone

5:53

has a bad night. Barack Obama once had a bad

5:55

night. But you know, at 81 years old, this is

5:58

a different

6:00

set of factors for President Biden.

6:03

Why was he struggling Thursday?

6:07

Well, I think both candidates struggled. I

6:09

don't think either candidate had a very

6:11

good night on the debate

6:13

night. But I also do

6:15

know that it does matter when we're

6:17

looking at presidential performance and not necessarily

6:20

debate performance. But respectfully, Governor,

6:23

the president doesn't do many interviews. He

6:25

doesn't do things where we have to

6:27

see him be quick on his feet.

6:31

He's not here. You are. He's

6:33

not on the campaign trail as often

6:36

as surrogates like you are. Isn't

6:38

that demonstrating that there

6:40

are alternatives, democratic alternatives,

6:43

who are younger and able to go out and be

6:45

quick on their feet and on the trail? I

6:49

know I got a chance to see the president

6:52

when times were difficult and see him

6:54

in trials. And I've seen him being

6:56

able to be a remarkable partner to

6:58

us. And that's what I remember. And

7:01

that's why I continue to believe that

7:03

the Biden administration deserves another

7:05

four years. And I'm excited about what that can

7:07

deliver for the American people. Why was the

7:09

president struggling? I think the president

7:11

had a tough night. I

7:13

think all of us have difficult nights. Well,

7:17

I think that the president had a

7:19

difficult night, just like every

7:21

single one of us do. Governor, I

7:23

know that Democrats believe that

7:26

abortion is a winning issue in this election. Here's

7:28

what the American people heard from the

7:30

president when he was asked about abortion.

7:34

Look, there's so many young women who have been,

7:36

including a young woman who just was murdered. And

7:39

he went to the funeral. The

7:42

idea that she was

7:44

murdered by an immigrant coming

7:46

in. They talk about that. But

7:48

here's the deal. There's a lot

7:50

of young women to be raped by their

7:52

in-laws, by their spouses,

7:55

brothers and sisters. By just

7:58

ridiculous. and they

8:00

can do nothing about it. Abortion

8:02

is an important issue for Democrats.

8:05

This should have been a layup. He

8:08

was struggling to make the point. How

8:10

do you explain that? Margaret,

8:13

that wasn't a great moment for

8:15

the president. And no one can

8:17

argue that it can. He

8:19

was also standing feet away from someone

8:21

who was talking about politicians who take

8:23

babies away after they're born and killing

8:25

them. He was also talking.

8:27

He was also standing feet away from somebody

8:29

who was debating whether or not the limit

8:32

on reproductive health should be

8:34

six weeks or nine weeks or 12 weeks

8:37

or saying that any politician should have

8:39

a say about what happens with a

8:41

woman and her body when that conversation

8:43

should exclusively be between her and her

8:46

doctor. Right. Donald Trump is saying it

8:48

to the states. and we can't defend that. Yeah.

8:51

No, well, I think, and

8:54

Donald Trump is also claiming responsibility for the turn down

8:56

of Roe v. Wade. So, I mean,

8:58

it wasn't a great moment for the

9:00

president. But let's be clear, his position

9:03

on making sure the reproductive health and

9:05

reproductive rights should be ironclad, his position

9:07

that we should have Roe v. Wade

9:09

as the law of the land is

9:11

very, very clear. With Donald Trump, I

9:13

want to be also clear that that

9:16

is not his position. I

9:18

understand you want the conversation to be

9:21

about the policy and the false

9:23

statements made by his opponent. But the

9:25

Atlanta Journal and Constitution in Georgia, a

9:27

key state for the president, came out

9:29

in an editorial saying this wasn't a

9:31

bad night. It was a confirmation of

9:34

the worst fears of some of Biden's

9:36

most ardent supporters. Age

9:38

has finally caught up to him. It

9:41

referred to excuses like what you're making as

9:43

insulting to the American people. How do you

9:45

respond to that? I

9:48

think that what we are watching, when

9:51

you're watching a presidential performance, when you're

9:53

watching a president who is able to

9:56

lead us to now where we have record

9:58

low unemployment. When we're able

10:00

to. to watch how the black

10:02

wealth inside of this country since

10:04

the pandemic has risen by 60%.

10:07

When you're able to watch a presidential

10:09

performance that's been able to do things

10:11

like raise wages for our workers and

10:14

making sure that our rights are protected,

10:16

that that does matter in this conversation.

10:18

And so I understand people who are,

10:20

you know, and I understand and I get it,

10:22

the arguments about age and the complications of 81,

10:26

but the number 81 is an important

10:28

number, though so is watching historically low

10:30

unemployment rates. And I do not think that people

10:32

should lose sight of that. Sure, but we're

10:35

not just talking about three and a half years

10:37

in the past, we're talking about four more years,

10:40

bringing him to age 86. Here

10:42

is what the president responded when he was

10:44

asked about the national debt and

10:46

how he would tax billionaires. We'd

10:50

be able to right wipe out his debt.

10:52

We'd be able to help make sure that

10:54

all those things we need to do, childcare,

10:56

elder care, making sure that we continue to

10:58

strengthen our healthcare system,

11:00

making sure that we're able to make

11:02

every single solitary person eligible

11:05

for what I've been able to do with

11:07

the COVID, excuse

11:09

me, with dealing with

11:12

everything we have to do with, look,

11:17

if we finally

11:19

beat Medicare. The

11:22

president lost his own point. We

11:26

also have to remember that this election is

11:29

a binary choice. It's

11:31

an election between president Joe Biden and

11:34

frankly, even the conversation around the

11:36

national debt, someone whose tax

11:39

cuts at a time went over the

11:41

next decade, we are going to have

11:43

the largest transfer of wealth in the

11:45

history of the world. You need young

11:47

voters to turn out. Democrats

11:50

need young voters to turn out.

11:52

How are they supposed to see

11:54

themselves reflected in that? I

11:56

think they're also gonna see themselves reflected in all

11:58

the people who are going. and being the

12:01

president's surrogates, I think you have to

12:03

go out and earn it. You know,

12:05

I'm the youngest Democratic governor in this

12:07

country, the only African-American governor in America.

12:10

And we are out here all the time.

12:12

And we're out here in conjunction with other

12:14

surrogates. We're out here in conjunction with the

12:16

president who's out here campaigning and the vice

12:18

president. We're going to the people and we're

12:20

making our case to the people as to

12:23

why this kind of partnership matters. Progress does

12:25

not happen by accident. The work that we

12:27

are seeing, I look at the state of

12:29

Maryland, we now went from being 43rd in

12:31

unemployment when I was first inaugurated to now

12:33

having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the

12:35

entire country for 12 straight months. So would

12:37

you pursue the Democratic nomination if Joe

12:39

Biden were to take himself out of

12:41

this race? I will

12:43

not. And Joe Biden is not going to take

12:46

himself out of this race, nor should he. He

12:48

has been a remarkable partner. Are you

12:50

confident that the only person, the

12:52

only Democrat in America that could

12:55

beat Donald Trump is Joe Biden?

12:58

Joe Biden is our nominee. Joe

13:01

Biden is our leader. And

13:03

Joe Biden has earned and

13:05

Joe Biden deserves the confidence,

13:08

the respect, and frankly, the

13:10

partnership that we now have

13:12

to provide to him. And so I

13:14

will be in Chicago. I will proudly

13:16

be supporting the president in Chicago. I

13:18

will work through November to make sure

13:20

he gets reelected. So yes, I do

13:23

think that President Biden has earned the

13:25

respect of Democrats. And Joe Biden is

13:27

gonna be our leader going forward. Governor

13:30

Moore, thank you for joining us. Thank

13:32

you. And Face the Nation,

13:35

we'll be back in one minute. We get

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support from Dove. Hey y'all, it's your girl

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turn now to Ohio Republican Senator

15:31

J.D. Vance. He joins us this

15:33

morning from Cleveland. And Senator,

15:35

I should say we're having some technical issues

15:37

so you're with us on Zoom. Hopefully our

15:41

uplink stays solid throughout because I got a lot of

15:43

questions for you, sir. Donald

15:46

Trump had a better night on Thursday

15:49

during that debate by many measures, but

15:52

according to our poll, he fell short on at least

15:54

one of them. Fewer voters thought

15:56

the former president was truthful compared

15:58

with President Trump. President Biden. Mr.

16:02

Trump falsely claimed states are passing legislation

16:04

to execute babies. I think you

16:07

know that killing people is illegal

16:09

in every state. He

16:11

falsely claimed that the Speaker of the House at

16:13

the time turned down 10,000 soldiers that

16:16

he had offered to keep the peace

16:18

ahead of January 6th, something his own

16:20

acting Secretary of Defense testified to Congress

16:22

did not happen. If he

16:25

has such a strong platform, why

16:27

make false claims? Well,

16:30

Morgan, I think the media is running interference

16:32

on a lot of this stuff. We all

16:34

know, and Nancy Pelosi herself has admitted on

16:37

camera that she could have requested more National

16:39

Guard troops. She bears some responsibility for the

16:41

fact that they weren't there at the Capitol.

16:43

We know that multiple Democratic

16:45

governors and states and even some Democratic

16:48

senators and congressmen have tried to pass

16:50

laws that would effectively legalize abortion up

16:52

until the moment of birth. And most

16:54

importantly, we know that the media seems

16:57

totally uninterested in fact-checking Joe Biden from

16:59

any of the number of false claims

17:01

that he made. Yeah, I lost track,

17:03

sir. I've been told the media is on every single

17:06

side of this and everything's our fault. But let's get

17:08

back to the candidate you're here to talk about. Chris

17:12

Miller said 10,000 troops. He

17:15

was never ordered by the president to send those to

17:17

the Capitol that day. Nancy

17:20

Pelosi has said on camera, Margaret, that she

17:22

bears some responsibility for the fact that the

17:24

National Guard didn't play a big role. And

17:26

of course, we know the Speaker of the

17:28

House has an extraordinary amount of influence over

17:30

the Capitol Police. It's not

17:33

in dispute, Margaret. And more importantly,

17:35

Joe Biden said that no troops

17:37

died on his watch even though

17:39

13 American service members

17:41

died thanks to his botched withdrawal

17:43

from Afghanistan. Joe Biden made

17:45

multiple statements of falsehood during the debate.

17:47

And a lot of folks in the

17:50

media, yes, seem totally uninterested in fact-checking

17:52

him. And the reason, Margaret,

17:54

is because Donald Trump just performed so

17:56

much better. There was

17:58

this 24-hour period. where effectively everyone

18:01

was honest, that there was an incredible

18:03

contrast between Donald Trump's energy and command

18:05

of the facts and Joe Biden's obvious

18:07

inability to do the job as president.

18:09

And now, of course, we've trained this

18:11

new media cycle where folks are trying

18:13

to run cover. Look, the American people

18:15

saw what they saw. Trump can do

18:17

the job. Biden can't. Yep. You

18:20

might not have heard it, but I did raise a

18:22

lot of those issues to Wes Moore, the Biden surrogate

18:24

who is on before you. As

18:27

to where you stand on some of

18:29

these issues, tomorrow at the Supreme Court,

18:32

it may be a significant day as

18:34

we get expected to get that

18:36

decision on presidential immunity from criminal

18:39

prosecution. And that's directly

18:41

relevant to the federal charges against

18:43

Donald Trump, as you know. You're

18:45

a lawyer. I wonder if

18:48

you become the vice president and you

18:50

are in a Trump Vance administration, do

18:52

you believe a president could pardon himself

18:54

for federal crimes? Well,

18:57

look, I'm focused on electing Donald Trump as

18:59

president, whether I'm serving in some other role

19:01

as serving as United States Senator, I think

19:03

the Trump agenda has worked, Margaret. And

19:06

on this particular question- Well, would you object if the president were

19:08

to try to do that? Margaret,

19:10

we know that the president has to

19:12

have immunity to do his job. Should

19:15

Barack Obama be prosecuted for droning

19:17

American citizens in Yemen? There are

19:19

so many examples of presidents, Democrats,

19:21

and Republicans who would not be

19:23

able to discharge their duties if

19:26

the Supreme Court does not recognize some broad

19:28

element of presidential discretion. I'm very confident that

19:30

they're going to be able to do that.

19:32

And I'm very confident that the fundamental principle

19:35

here is the president's got to be able

19:37

to do his job in the same way

19:39

that police officers, judges, prosecutors enjoy some immunity,

19:41

that principle has to apply to the president

19:43

too. So you do

19:46

believe that a president could pardon himself for federal crimes?

19:49

I believe that the president has broad pardon

19:51

authority, Margaret, but more importantly, I think the

19:54

president has immunity. It's not about whether he

19:56

should pardon himself. It's about whether he

19:58

prosecuted in the first. place for discharging

20:01

his official duties. So in that way,

20:03

I sort of reject the premise of

20:05

the question here, we need to have

20:07

some recognition that the, you know, look,

20:10

a Democrat wins the presidency, they try

20:12

to throw the Republican president in jail,

20:14

a Republican wins the president, they try

20:17

to throw the Democrat president in jail.

20:19

That is the pathway to unraveling 250

20:21

years of American constitutional tradition and making

20:23

the president totally unable regardless of party

20:26

to do their job. That is not

20:28

a good thing. And it's not something

20:30

I think any Republican supports. Okay. To

20:32

that point, president Trump on that debate

20:35

stage on Thursday suggested that Joe Biden

20:37

could be criminally prosecuted after he leaves

20:39

office. It wasn't clear exactly what crime

20:41

he was alleging, but he mentioned something

20:44

about the US border in

20:46

a Trump Vance administration. Would your

20:48

justice department prosecute Joe Biden? And

20:50

if so, for what? Well,

20:53

first of all, that would be the

20:55

responsibility of the attorney general market, but

20:58

Donald Trump did not say that he's

21:00

trying to throw his political opponent in

21:02

jail. That is Joe Biden, who has

21:04

in fact already tried to do precisely

21:06

that. And importantly, what he said is

21:08

that if you apply the same standard

21:10

that Joe Biden's justice department has applied,

21:12

then there are a lot of Democratic

21:14

officials who could go to prison. He's

21:16

making a fundamental argument about constitutional fairness.

21:18

It's so extraordinary that people could say

21:20

that Donald Trump is the one trying

21:23

to use lawfare against his opponent sometime

21:25

in the hypothetical future when the very

21:27

president, that's exactly what Joe Biden is

21:29

trying to do. But do you object

21:31

to the premise? And

21:33

I think that what we need to recognize

21:36

is that applying a consistent standard is what

21:38

really matters. So you would

21:40

not want the justice department to prosecute Joe

21:42

Biden for any alleged crimes. I

21:45

want people who, Margaret, I

21:47

want people who commit crimes to

21:49

face the appropriate response in law.

21:51

What I do not think is

21:53

reasonable is for Joe Biden to

21:55

weaponize his own justice department going

21:58

after Donald Trump. some

22:00

of which have already been thrown out,

22:02

a number of which I think will

22:04

be thrown out, including on Monday by

22:06

the United States court. So the problem

22:08

that I have, Margaret, is not with

22:11

which Democrat should prosecute which Republican and

22:13

vice versa. It's let's get out of

22:15

the prosecuting of people based on their

22:17

politics. Let's let voters decide who the

22:19

president should be, not judges and prosecutors

22:21

who are politically motivated. Senator,

22:23

you are, as everyone knows, on

22:26

this very short list of potential

22:28

running mates for Donald Trump. So

22:31

for our viewers at home, you are 40 years

22:34

old. You've been in the Senate for

22:36

less than two years. You haven't held

22:39

elected office before this. If

22:41

you are selected alongside a

22:43

nominee who is 78 years old, you will be

22:45

a heartbeat from

22:47

the presidency. What do you think

22:50

your biggest accomplishment in the

22:52

Senate has been to date? Well,

22:55

again, I'm not running for vice president. And

22:57

it's important for us to remember that Donald

22:59

Trump has been a very good president. He

23:01

will be a very good president again. I

23:03

think in some ways, these vice presidential conversations

23:06

serve to distract from the fact that we

23:08

have Donald Trump is president with a success.

23:10

Joe Biden is president has been a failure.

23:12

Let's get back to success. Let's get back

23:14

to peace and prosperity. My attitude

23:16

on the vice bill thing, Margaret, is look, if

23:19

he asked me, I want to help him. And of

23:21

course, I would be very interested in the job. But

23:23

you asked what are my accomplishments in the United States

23:25

Senate? In 18 months, Margaret, we've done

23:27

a lot of good work for our constituents. We've

23:30

got hundreds of millions of dollars to the Great

23:32

Lakes. We've done a lot to

23:34

help the people of East Palestine deal with a

23:36

terrible train disaster. And of course, we've done a

23:38

lot of work on making sure that Ohio has

23:41

gotten defense resources that make not just Ohio, but our

23:43

country stronger. So there's a lot we can hang our

23:45

hat on. But I like being a senator. I'm not

23:48

trying to leave the United States Senate. It's an honor

23:50

to serve the people of Ohio. And frankly, if you

23:52

ask me, that's where I expect to be in

23:55

six months. That's where I expect to be in a few years.

23:58

All right, JD Vance. We'll be watching

24:01

and hopefully we'll have you back in studio

24:03

next time. We'll be

24:05

right back. Tomorrow, the Supreme

24:07

Court is set to conclude a blockbuster

24:10

term and issue a landmark decision on

24:12

whether presidents are granted a degree of

24:14

immunity from criminal prosecution, a decision that

24:16

could impact the 2024 race. We're

24:20

joined now by CBS News chief legal

24:22

affairs correspondent Jan Crawford and chief Washington

24:24

correspondent Major Garrett. A lot to

24:26

get to with both of you, but Jan,

24:28

the big question of tomorrow morning,

24:30

what will the court rule? Well,

24:33

I mean, we'll see, but I

24:35

mean, I do expect a decision that

24:37

at least leaves open the possibility of

24:39

a trial before the election. I mean,

24:41

I see zero chance they're going to

24:43

embrace Donald Trump's argument that he has

24:45

absolute immunity and can't be prosecuted. I

24:47

think they're going to say that there

24:50

is some immunity for the

24:52

official actions of a president. And

24:54

why is that important? I agree. And you heard

24:57

some of that in your conversation with

24:59

Senator Vance. They are concerned that this

25:01

case will apply to future presidents. They

25:03

are concerned that after a bitter campaign,

25:05

as one justice pointed out in argument,

25:07

that the winning candidate could throw the

25:09

loser into jail. They're worried about that.

25:11

And as Trump said during that debate,

25:13

he believes Biden was policies on immigration

25:15

have been criminal. So they see this

25:17

as a case that goes well beyond

25:19

Donald Trump. That's why I think they're

25:22

going to wall off those kind of

25:24

official actions of a president, but

25:26

leave open the possibility of prosecution

25:28

for unofficial actions of an office

25:30

seeker. And as Trump's lawyer argued

25:34

at the oral arguments, conceded at the oral

25:36

arguments, a lot of what's alleged in the

25:38

indictment is unofficial acts. So Jack Smith could

25:40

have those papers ready to go and say,

25:42

he's conceded. This is unofficial acts that he

25:45

can be prosecuted for. Let's get this trial

25:47

going. And I think the judge could do

25:49

that very quickly. It's hard to get your

25:51

head around something being an unofficial act by

25:53

the president when he is doing it in

25:56

office at times from the Oval Office.

25:58

How do you explain that? as

26:00

a lower court in a different case on

26:02

a similar issue explained, unofficial acts are the

26:05

acts of an office seeker, a candidate,

26:07

speeches you may give on the campaign

26:09

trail at rallies. So a lower court

26:12

has already laid out the groundwork for

26:14

how you can make these divisions in

26:16

the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. The

26:18

official acts will be those core powers

26:20

that presidents have, immigration policy, decisions you

26:22

make about drone strikes. Those cannot be

26:25

prosecuted. That is that's going to be

26:27

walled off. But there's a lot of

26:29

things a president does that could be

26:31

unofficial and criminal. There

26:34

is so much we need to dig into on

26:36

the legalities and then with you, Major, on the

26:38

practicalities, because as you just mentioned, there could be

26:40

a trial before the election. I see.

26:42

We can't rule it out. We're going to have to

26:44

talk about what that looks like and the impact on

26:47

the trail. Please stay with us and we'll have the

26:49

rest of that conversation on the other side of this

26:51

commercial break with Jan and Major. We'll

26:53

be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with

26:55

us. Victor

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back to Face the Nation and we return

32:35

now to our conversation with Chief Legal Correspondent

32:37

Jan Crawford and Chief Washington Correspondent Major Garrett.

32:40

Major, I want to pick up with you.

32:42

Jan has laid out for us that there

32:44

is the expectation the Supreme Court could say

32:46

some but not total immunity. What

32:49

does this mean for the timeline for special counsel

32:51

Jack Smith? As a practical matter the

32:53

Trump legal effort has already succeeded. It

32:56

has delayed a resolution of this matter for

32:58

a very long time. Oral arguments were April

33:01

25th. Many legal scholars have said what is

33:04

the court waiting for? This is not that

33:06

hard a question but by waiting even

33:09

if there is room available to special

33:11

counsel Jack Smith to prosecute his

33:13

choice is to launch that trial in

33:16

September or October at the absolute earliest

33:18

in the very teeth of a presidential

33:20

campaign in which former President Trump says

33:23

because I am potent because I am

33:25

politically leading I am being prosecuted.

33:28

Is that the political and legal terrain

33:30

Jack Smith wants to wade into? We'll

33:32

find out. It's the most consequential prosecutorial decision

33:34

in the history of the country if it

33:36

comes to that. And on two cases

33:38

one directly related to 2020 and attempts to

33:41

steal the election

33:43

the other unclassified documents that

33:45

playing out in Florida. Precisely.

33:48

What is the timeline on that case? Much

33:50

much later because Judge Eileen

33:52

Cannon has briefed and heard arguments on

33:54

so many underlying issues in that case

33:57

it does not appear ripe for a

33:59

prosecution. enter the most favorable calendar

34:02

before the election, the January 6th

34:04

case, however, does. Jayan,

34:06

how would the immunity

34:09

ruling that you are expecting affect

34:12

the classified documents case in Florida?

34:14

I don't think it would, because

34:17

that, again, that case

34:19

is about what he did after he left office. And

34:21

I agree with Major. I see no way that

34:23

the classified documents case goes forward. I

34:26

think that is a very inexperienced judge, and

34:29

she's taken on a lot of issues. So I see

34:31

no way that one goes forward, because

34:33

again, that's about behavior that after

34:35

he's no longer a sitting president. But

34:38

I do want to point out, remember, the Supreme

34:41

Court did agree to Jack Smith's request to expedite

34:43

this case. He asked the court if they were

34:45

going to decide to take it up this term

34:47

and have a decision by the end of the

34:49

session. And that's what he's going to get. There

34:52

are a lot of people who wish, on the

34:54

conservative side, that the court had just said, no,

34:56

we're going to just do it regular course of

34:58

business. We'll come back and have arguments in October.

35:00

We'll give a decision in December or January. And

35:03

that means there is no trial. So the court,

35:05

and I understand there is frustration

35:07

among Democrats that the court seems to be

35:09

dragging their feet on this. But that's not

35:12

true. I mean, the court has expedited this.

35:14

They added this to their calendar, and they

35:16

are going to give Jack Smith what he

35:18

wanted in his filings, a decision by the

35:21

end of the term. That allows him to

35:23

go forward with the trial. There's frustration among

35:25

Democrats that the attorney general didn't move shots.

35:27

It brought charges. Just a quick rejoinder on

35:30

that point. A three-judge panel, the DC Circuit

35:32

Court of Appeals, issued a 57-page opinion on

35:34

this. It was unequivocal. Supreme Court

35:36

could have taken that. Right. And

35:38

they didn't like that decision

35:40

because it essentially said there

35:43

is no immunity. There

35:45

is none. And the court believed, and I think,

35:48

from this conversation you can see, there is

35:50

some immunity for official acts. And so the

35:52

court believed, let's decide it now, instead of

35:55

having this go through the trial court process

35:57

and come back up here challenging this, challenging

36:00

it in September, October, all over again.

36:02

Jan, Friday, the attorney general said

36:04

he was disappointed that the court ruled 6-3 to

36:08

limit a law that has been used to

36:10

charge hundreds of capital riot defendants as well

36:12

as President Trump. How will this affect the

36:14

potential case against President Trump? That case, again,

36:17

that came up by one of the January

36:19

6 defendants, along with a couple of others,

36:21

who were charged with obstruction of an official

36:23

proceeding, challenged the use

36:25

of that charge in their cases. And

36:28

the Supreme Court said on Friday that

36:30

prosecutors may have overreached. They looked at

36:32

the law that was at issue as

36:34

part of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act after the

36:37

Enron accounting scandal. And they said,

36:39

as Justice has said on Friday, that it

36:41

has to be tied to some kind of

36:43

destruction or hampering of evidence. So that was

36:45

a big win for the January 6 defendant

36:47

in this case, Joe Fischer and a couple

36:49

others. But it doesn't mean it's a big

36:51

win for Donald Trump. He is going to

36:53

file a motion to dismiss, assuming

36:56

this immunity case goes like we believe it

36:58

will, he'll file a motion to dismiss those

37:00

charges against him. And Jack Smith, I'm sure,

37:02

already has legal papers to say, let

37:05

me show you how this obstruction's charge is

37:07

still going to apply to Donald Trump. And

37:09

why is that important? That carries a 20-year

37:12

prison sentence. It is a felony. It is

37:14

the most serious charge. And

37:16

I believe that based on, again, another opinion

37:20

in the D.C. Circuit that lays out

37:22

a groundwork for how Trump can still

37:24

be charged, they will be able to

37:26

show that he was trying to interfere

37:28

with evidence, the evidence of those certificates

37:30

where they were counting state electors. He

37:32

was trying to disrupt that evidence and

37:34

the counting of those votes. Very quickly,

37:36

Margaret, just under 1,500 people

37:38

have been charged with the January 6 riot.

37:40

This affects less than 2% of those cases.

37:42

Major, very quickly, for President Biden

37:44

to be removed from the top of the ticket, he would

37:46

have to agree to do that. He has to agree. D.C.

37:49

rules are absolutely clear on this. The threshold

37:51

to be the nominee is 1,968 delegates. President

37:56

Biden currently has 3,894. Lessee

37:59

steps down. no mechanism to dislodge

38:01

him from becoming

38:03

the re-nominated candidate for

38:05

the Democratic Party. Period. End

38:08

of story. There are lots of people who are

38:10

talking about it, but unless he removes himself or

38:13

is somehow otherwise incapacitated, this is a closed matter.

38:16

It's a family matter at the moment. A very

38:18

important family matter, not just the

38:20

family, but the broader Democratic Party

38:22

family. Thank you both

38:24

for your reporting and your analysis. We'll be

38:26

right back. We

38:28

go now to Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes.

38:30

He's the top Democrat on the House

38:32

Intelligence Committee. Good morning to you. Good

38:35

morning, Margaret. I know

38:37

you were recently briefed regarding those

38:39

arrests in Los Angeles, Philadelphia and

38:41

New York City, and the eight

38:43

Tajik nationals with suspected links to

38:46

ISIS-K. Do you know where

38:48

we are in regard to understanding

38:50

whether they were a cell

38:53

working together, whether there were direct

38:55

links? Yeah, so law

38:57

enforcement, as you might expect, is making

38:59

pretty good progress determining who these people

39:01

were talking to, what the plans were,

39:04

other people involved in the network, whether an

39:06

attack was imminent, whether there were specific plans

39:09

for an attack. And this

39:11

isn't new, right? In other words, as

39:13

you know, shortly after these individuals entered

39:15

the United States, not

39:18

stopped because there was no derogatory

39:20

information on them at the time.

39:22

Very quickly some derogatory information was

39:24

developed and the

39:26

decision was taken to watch these guys.

39:28

Now the reason you watch these guys

39:30

instead of instantly arresting them is that

39:33

their behavior and their communications can really

39:35

paint a very specific picture of a

39:37

plot, of a conspiracy, if there is

39:39

one. Obviously, they took the decision

39:41

at one point that the risk or reward there

39:43

was such that they made these

39:45

arrests, but of course, they continue to work

39:47

to understand whether there were plans and if

39:49

so, who else might have been involved. So

39:52

it sounds like intelligence is still being

39:54

gleaned from these eight individuals. So how

39:56

can we say there is no active

39:58

threat? Well Margaret, we

40:00

can never say there is no active threat. There

40:04

is always a baseline threat of a terrorist

40:06

act in the United States. There is absolutely

40:08

nothing we can do to change that fact.

40:10

So you can never say that there is

40:13

zero risk. What you can do

40:15

is you can look at the period of time

40:17

since 9-11, the tragic attack on 9-11, and

40:20

say how many Americans have actually died in

40:22

a terrorist attack engineered by foreigners. And the

40:24

answer to that question is vanishingly

40:27

small. Our people are very, very good,

40:29

but you can never have zero risk

40:31

of a terrorist attack. Would

40:33

you support a public hearing with

40:35

the intelligence chiefs to lay out the

40:37

facts as we know them? I

40:40

know Director Wray said we are at the highest

40:43

possible level of threat right now. Yeah,

40:46

and Margaret, look, I think it's really important

40:48

for people to keep this in context. That

40:51

may be true, and it's probably true

40:53

because the world is a more complicated

40:55

place than it was 10 years ago,

40:57

in particular with the war in

41:00

Israel and Gaza. We see every radical

41:02

Islamic group from the Houthis to all

41:04

the Iranian-backed proxies interested in doing things

41:06

that they might not have wanted to

41:09

do 10 years ago. So Director Wray

41:11

may be right. And

41:13

in fact, I think our intelligence

41:15

agencies and law enforcement are on alert in

41:17

a way they haven't been in a very

41:19

long time. And look, the Tajik story is

41:22

a success story. They were arrested. They did

41:24

not conduct a terrorist attack. Your Republican colleague,

41:26

Mike Turner, was on this program a few

41:28

weeks ago, and he said, quote, we have

41:30

terrorists that are actively working inside the United

41:32

States that are a threat to Americans. Is

41:36

that an accurate characterization? And

41:38

if so, why not? Well,

41:41

the Tajik case is, as far

41:43

as I know, the only case

41:45

that we have been briefed on

41:47

on the Intelligence Committee of our

41:50

intelligence community, our law enforcement community,

41:52

following people that we think could

41:54

be involved in a plot. I'm

41:56

certainly not aware of other situations

41:58

like that. It

42:00

is almost certainly true in a country of

42:02

350 million people that

42:05

there are some people out there who are

42:07

thinking about undertaking acts of violence. We

42:09

see a lot of violence in this country.

42:11

Most of it is domestic. Most of it

42:14

is not related to transnational terrorism. But again,

42:16

you asked earlier about a public hearing around

42:18

the facts here. And I didn't

42:20

answer it directly, so I'll answer it directly right now.

42:23

We're probably not at that stage because

42:25

of what we started talking about, which

42:28

is the absolute necessity of law enforcement

42:30

really understanding the full contours of

42:33

that Tajik group and doing

42:35

the work that they need to do, which is

42:37

best done in secret. In terms of what's happening

42:39

and the connection to the southern border, President

42:42

Biden said at the debate on

42:44

Thursday, quote, I'm not saying no

42:46

terrorist ever got through. So

42:48

he seems to be acknowledging this unknown

42:51

element here. Do you think the intelligence

42:53

community has the resources they need right

42:55

now to deal with the threat and

42:57

the vulnerability at the border? Of course,

42:59

a border in which people are entering

43:01

and we don't know who they are

43:04

is a risk. No question about it.

43:06

And I wish that we had seized the

43:08

opportunity of the bipartisan bill negotiated by Jim

43:11

Lankford and Chris Murphy, a conservative Republican and

43:13

a progressive Democrat, to actually do something about

43:15

that. But Donald Trump said no. He said,

43:17

don't do it. I want to run on

43:19

this issue. So I would have loved to

43:21

have seen that get done. But again, people

43:24

need to put this into

43:26

context. How many Americans have died

43:28

in a terrorist attack by somebody

43:30

who snuck across the southern border?

43:32

The answer to that question is

43:34

zero. So resource allocation, should the

43:36

FBI, should the CIA be laser

43:38

focused on the southern border? I

43:41

don't know. Clearly, it is

43:43

a risk and a vulnerability. But

43:45

a lot of these plots we

43:47

pick up because of our collection

43:49

ability abroad. So you think the

43:51

resources are adequate to intelligence collection

43:53

abroad? Well, I

43:55

think if you had the head of

43:57

the FBI or any of the people

43:59

who were involved in this effort, they

44:01

would say we could. really use more

44:03

resources. But one of the challenges we

44:05

have that we haven't talked about Margaret

44:07

is remember that for a decade now,

44:10

more than a decade, we've been talking

44:12

about the pivot to China. China invading

44:14

Taiwan is an outcome that is catastrophic

44:16

in 10 different dimensions. If we're serious

44:18

about pivoting to Asia, if we're serious

44:20

about supporting the Ukrainian fight against Russia,

44:22

inevitably because we don't have infinite resources,

44:25

some things like counter-terrorism are not going

44:27

to get the full amount of resources

44:29

that you would like. Before I let

44:31

you go, how do you think America's

44:33

foreign adversaries viewed President Biden's performance on

44:35

Thursday night? I suspect that, you know,

44:37

pretty much everybody watched that debate and

44:39

thought that the president did not perform

44:41

the way we would have liked to

44:44

have seen him perform. However, I've spent

44:46

time around three different presidents, Margaret, and

44:48

I will tell you that the president's

44:50

job is enormously hard and involves all

44:52

kinds of things, none of which are

44:54

standing and doing a debate for 90

44:56

minutes on TV. The president's job involving

44:58

legislation, I would hope that people would

45:00

compare this president's record in that regard

45:02

with the last president's record. Being quick

45:04

on your feet is kind of important

45:06

to the job. Well, yeah,

45:08

yeah. And again, I think he's acknowledged and

45:11

the vice president acknowledged that that was not

45:13

the performance we were looking for. But I'm

45:15

not so cynical as to believe that the

45:17

American people are going to choose a president

45:19

based on a 90 minute debate rather than

45:21

a four year record of startling legislative

45:24

achievements and of setting a tone that

45:26

the rest of the world says, wow,

45:28

you know, America is back to the

45:30

decent leader that we used to believe

45:32

that it was prior to the Trump

45:34

administration. Congressman Himes, thank you for your

45:36

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46:45

We turn now to the executive director

46:47

of the UN agency that helps disadvantaged

46:49

children in the world's toughest places. UNICEF's

46:52

Catherine Russell joins us from New York.

46:54

Good to speak with you again. I

46:56

know you're just back from Sudan, which

46:59

is the largest humanitarian crisis on

47:01

the planet right now. What

47:03

did you learn? I

47:07

learned that it is a catastrophic situation

47:09

for children there, and there are compounding

47:12

crises. First, it's the largest displacement crisis

47:14

for children around the world. So many

47:16

millions of children have moved either from

47:18

their homes to neighboring countries like South

47:21

Sudan, Egypt or

47:23

Chad. Many millions are moved inside

47:25

Sudan to other places in the

47:27

city, or in the country trying

47:29

to find some refuge. It's also

47:31

a huge challenge in terms of malnutrition.

47:34

We have four million children who are

47:36

severely malnourished. Almost more

47:38

than half a million of those children

47:40

are severely acutely malnourished, which means that

47:42

they really are on the verge of

47:45

starvation. And then shockingly, almost every child

47:47

in Sudan has been out of school

47:49

for the last year, which is incredibly

47:51

destabilizing for them, for their future, and

47:53

certainly for the country as well. Yeah,

47:56

17 million children who are not in

47:58

school. Yeah, shocking. Apart

48:02

from the humanitarian concern here, I know

48:04

the US intelligence community has highlighted that

48:06

Sudan could become a terrorist safe haven

48:08

due to this ongoing civil war. What

48:12

are the conditions like for those next

48:14

generations? The

48:18

conditions are absolutely terrible. I have to

48:20

say, I was at a center that

48:22

UNICEF supports where we were providing all

48:24

sorts of services for children, education, which,

48:26

you know, as we discussed,

48:29

a horrific problem for them not being

48:31

in school, trying to provide healthcare, providing

48:33

psychosocial support for children who are so

48:36

traumatized. It's just almost hard

48:38

to imagine. It's also, it's just such

48:40

a desperate place in so many ways.

48:42

They're so, you know, they've been so

48:44

traumatized by so much violence and they've

48:46

seen things that no child should ever

48:48

see. And that's really something that long-term

48:50

is hard to imagine how they get

48:52

over it. Having said that, we are

48:54

there, we're working hard, we are getting

48:56

to these children, but

48:59

this ongoing conflict makes it almost impossible

49:01

to provide a decent future for these

49:03

kids. A little

49:05

closer to home in Haiti, I

49:07

know this past week, the first

49:09

UN-backed foreign law enforcement forces from

49:11

eight different countries arrived.

49:14

This is part of a US-supported

49:16

effort. How quickly do you think

49:18

that will make a difference for the children there?

49:23

Well, I will say, hopefully it will

49:25

be quick because the children there, I

49:28

mean, honestly, I feel like I was sort of broken record

49:30

when I tell you how bad it is in so many

49:32

places, but Haiti is really challenging because

49:34

there's so much violence. I was shocked by

49:36

what I saw when I was there several

49:38

months ago. So many children who

49:40

have seen violence directly, who have experienced

49:42

violence, high, high rates of sexual violence.

49:44

So it's been incredibly important to try

49:46

to stabilize that situation. I think this

49:48

is the first step. It's gonna take

49:50

a lot of work, I think, to

49:52

get it done, but at least we'll

49:54

start to see some semblance, hopefully, of

49:56

some security, which will make it easier

49:58

for us to operate, but also... Give

50:00

these children some prospect for a decent

50:02

future that isn't defined by violence and

50:04

hunger, which is unfortunately what we're seeing

50:07

now. And

50:09

the U.S. remains the largest donor to

50:11

many of these humanitarian causes, I know.

50:15

There was one rare piece of

50:17

good news this past week in the

50:19

Middle East. I read 21 children

50:21

with cancer were permitted to be

50:23

medically evacuated from Gaza. This was

50:25

the first evacuation since May. Why

50:29

is it so hard to get

50:31

sick children out? I'll

50:35

say this. Everything in Gaza is

50:38

hard. It's just the most challenging environment for

50:40

us to work in. I have to say,

50:42

I think that

50:44

the main problem is

50:46

a lack of security. And that makes

50:48

it difficult for the children who live

50:50

there. They've been displaced so many times,

50:53

so many children have multiple times moved,

50:55

trying to seek refuge, trying to get

50:57

away from the bombardments. I

50:59

think it's incredibly challenging. We know, we

51:01

continue to see that we're on the

51:03

verge of famine there. So children, basically,

51:05

it just means they don't really know where their

51:07

next meal is coming from. They also have not

51:09

been in school. So it's an

51:11

incredibly challenging place for children. And

51:14

I think it is great to find some shred of

51:16

good news. And

51:18

when you think about it, you forget in

51:20

these humanitarian situations that the humanitarian crisis is

51:22

so devastating that you forget that there are

51:24

routine problems that children face, right? They're

51:27

not getting their vaccines. They're not getting

51:29

treatment for things like cancer or other

51:31

sort of routine diseases and challenges that

51:33

children all over the world face. So

51:36

getting some of these kids out of there has been, as

51:38

you say, a bright spot. But I think

51:40

overall, we continue to see real challenges in

51:43

our ability to operate there. We need to

51:45

get that situation sorted out so that children

51:47

have some prospect. And I think this applies

51:49

to all three of the situations you've talked

51:51

about. Children are the future.

51:53

We talk about that all the time. But what does

51:55

that mean if we don't give them a future, if

51:58

we don't make sure that they have some... some

52:00

prospect of hope. And I think it's incumbent

52:02

upon all of the adults in the world

52:04

to come together and to do better by

52:07

these children. I couldn't agree more with you

52:09

on that, Director Russell. Thank you very much.

52:12

We'll be right back. Nearly

52:15

half of the countries in the world will hold elections

52:17

in 2024. And today, French

52:19

citizens cast ballots in a snap

52:22

parliamentary election. French President

52:24

Manuel Macron made the surprising decision

52:26

to hold it after his centrist

52:28

party was trounced by the far

52:30

right in the recent European elections.

52:33

It signals once again the uncertainty

52:35

about the political changes ahead. President

52:40

Macron called his shock decision a

52:42

test of truth. The

52:44

rising floodwaters of the far right,

52:46

as Macron put it, cannot be

52:48

ignored. With a

52:50

call to stop the migration,

52:52

this man, 28-year-old Jordan Bardella,

52:55

may become France's next prime

52:57

minister. With a platform promising

52:59

to crack down on crime

53:01

and restrict citizenship and rights

53:04

for foreign residents. His

53:06

national rally party is poised to

53:09

potentially win a parliamentary majority. The

53:16

party, led by Marine Le

53:18

Pen and founded by her

53:20

Holocaust-denying father, has renounced its

53:23

anti-Semitic past. But for

53:25

years has rallied on anti-Muslim

53:27

rhetoric and described migrants as

53:30

threatening, particularly to women. Macron,

53:32

who will remain as president for

53:35

another three years, warned that the

53:37

far right risked sparking a civil

53:39

war. And

53:41

in Germany, police broke

53:43

up protests this weekend

53:45

outside the AFD, or

53:47

Alternative for Germany Convention.

53:50

That far right party pulled

53:52

off its best performance ever

53:54

in European parliamentary elections, worrying

53:57

Chancellor Olaf Schulz. and

54:00

moving one of AFD's leaders, Bjorn

54:02

Hoch, from the fringe to the

54:04

fore. Hoch said he

54:06

deplores the Nazis, but he's led

54:08

chants of their slogans at his

54:10

rallies, which landed him

54:13

back in court this past week since

54:15

German law bans the use of Nazi

54:17

phrases. The AFD

54:20

party advocates for tough deportation

54:22

policies, is suspicious of climate

54:24

change, and the government response

54:26

to COVID. Haves

54:28

of migrants, mainly from Syria, Afghanistan

54:30

and Africa, have been fleeing to

54:32

Germany since Europe's 2015 refugee crisis.

54:39

Earlier this month, this viral

54:41

video of dancing young Germans

54:43

chanting, Foreigners out, caused outrage.

54:47

Despite these emerging trend lines in

54:49

Europe, it appears the center did

54:51

hold in those parliamentary elections at

54:53

least for now. Senerreit

54:55

Ursula von der Leyen is expected

54:58

to remain European Commission president. But

55:01

this Monday, Hungary takes over

55:03

the rotating presidency of the

55:05

European Council, and Prime

55:07

Minister Viktor Orban has promised to,

55:09

quote, make Europe great again. The

55:12

slogan a nod to his friend Donald Trump.

55:15

With the far right still ascendant

55:17

in parts of Europe, it has left

55:20

some to wonder if America is

55:22

any less immune. And

55:24

leaves open the question of

55:26

what happens next when democracies

55:28

elect leaders who flirt with

55:30

anti-democratic tendencies. That's

55:32

it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until

55:35

next week. For Face the Nation,

55:38

I'm Margaret Brennan. Today's guest for

55:40

Maryland Democratic Governor Wes Moore, Ohio

55:42

Republican Senator J.D. Banes, Connecticut Democratic

55:44

Congressman and ranking member of the

55:47

House Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes, and

55:49

the executive director of UNICEF, Katherine

55:52

Russell. The executive producer

55:54

of Face the Nation is Mary Hager.

55:56

This broadcast was directed by Shelley

55:59

Schwartz. Face the Nation

56:01

originates in CBS News in

56:03

Washington. For more Face

56:05

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56:07

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