0:04

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast

0:06

where we read books and other words, too.

0:09

I'm Lily.

0:09

And I'm Sarah, and I'm delighted to welcome

0:12

back Andrew Cartmell onto the podcast,

0:14

this time to talk about book two in

0:16

his paperback sleuth series

0:19

titled The Ashram Assassin.

0:21

Thank you for having me on. I'm very

0:23

happy with that title because there was a bit of a frack

0:25

up with the publisher who wanted to call it THE Ashram

0:28

Assassin with a definite article, and I just,

0:30

I like the clipped, uh, alliteration

0:32

of just Ashram Assassin. So when you

0:34

said that, said the title, I just had to pause

0:36

for a little moment, enjoying it.

0:40

It's an excellent title.

0:42

Thank you. And it's a nice cover, too, because

0:44

it evokes the, yes, this

0:46

is a murder mystery which takes place in

0:48

a yoga milieu, and

0:51

so the cover art is really nice from that point of view.

0:53

The cover's beautiful. We were actually just talking

0:55

about how much we loved the Vinyl Detective

0:57

covers as well, but both of the Paperback

0:59

Sleuth books that have come out have been so

1:01

excellent.

1:02

Yeah, your covers are just beautiful. gorgeous.

1:06

Thank you. On that subject, they've

1:08

sent me the cover art for the next Vinyl

1:10

Detector, one that I haven't written yet, I've just started

1:13

writing. And I might under, swore

1:15

not to show it to anyone, but I might show it to you guys.

1:18

Ooh.

1:18

so great. It was such

1:20

a wonderful, I know we'll get to these Romados later,

1:23

but I was having a bit of trouble getting started on the new book

1:25

and seeing the cover was such a

1:27

great incentive. It really was fab.

1:29

Interesting. I have a question about that process.

1:32

I'm going to save it until we actually start talking about the book.

1:34

So put a pin on that.

1:36

Well, what's something great that happened recently?

1:39

I went to Utah to visit some friends

1:42

and that was a lot of fun. We

1:44

spent five days hiking

1:46

and drinking whiskey and mead and

1:49

not getting enough sleep. We hiked to

1:51

a natural hot springs, which was really cool.

1:53

Oh, how lovely.

1:55

Yeah, it was, it was just a wonderful time.

1:57

I have a friend who lives out out in Utah.

1:59

Oh, nice.

2:01

So I sort of feel I have a vested interest

2:03

in that part of the world.

2:04

This was my first time visiting, and it was

2:06

really beautiful country.

2:07

Really, I didn't know you hadn't been before.

2:10

I've never been, but the friend that I was

2:12

visiting has this lovely big

2:14

log cabin that has a view of the

2:16

mountains. Uh, very peaceful

2:18

to sit out on their porch and, you

2:20

know, watch the sunset. Not

2:22

watch the sunrise, because I was not up

2:24

early enough for that ever, but

2:27

you see any salt flats? Because that's what I always

2:29

think of when I think of Utah.

2:30

we didn't see salt flats, we were by the mountains.

2:33

We did see snow, we went up to

2:35

Bald Mountain, and we had been planning on

2:37

doing a sunrise hike, but there was a

2:39

little bit too much snow for us

2:42

to be comfortable with doing that.

2:43

Sounds like there's a little too much whiskey for you to be comfortable

2:46

doing that.

2:47

There was a significant amount of whiskey,

2:50

and like I said, a significant amount of mead.

2:52

The friend that I visited makes his own mead.

2:55

not weed. It's a bit difficult when you say whiskey and mead.

2:58

Yeah, mead, not weed.

2:59

whiskey and weed. We have too much whiskey

3:02

and weed.

3:03

Well, Andrew, how about you? What's something great that happened

3:05

recently?

3:06

Rehearsals began for my new play,

3:08

which is on in July. It's

3:10

the last three weeks of July and we started rehearsing

3:12

this week, so that was tremendously exciting.

3:14

Oh, that's fantastic.

3:15

Can you tell us a little bit about the play?

3:17

Oh yes, in fact, I'll show you

3:19

a copy of The Flyer. This is very

3:22

good radio. Okay, so it's a comedy.

3:24

It's called Dressing Out. In fact, it's a farce. It's a sort

3:26

of naughty comedy cum farce. It's

3:28

what we call a four hander. Four actors

3:31

who are all wonderful, great director, and

3:33

it's on a very nice book. pub theater called the Tabard.

3:36

Just in case anybody who's listening is in

3:38

London in the last three weeks of July, go to the

3:41

Tabard theater and see

3:43

my play because I guarantee you'll have a good time.

3:45

It's a good, it's a very enjoyable comedy

3:47

and it looks like it's going to be very well

3:50

evoked. Did I say it was called Dressing Gown? Anyway,

3:52

it's called Dressing Gown and the play begins

3:54

with a doorbell ringing and this guy comes out of his bedroom,

3:57

knotting his dressing gown, little knowing

3:59

what the day is going to throw at him. He's not ever

4:01

going to have a chance to get out of his dressing gown. So it's

4:03

about one of those, I think we've all had those kind of days,

4:06

you know, I'm going to get dressed now. Oh, another fire

4:08

to fight. Uh oh.

4:09

I often consider a day

4:11

where I never change out of my dressing gown a

4:13

success, but I

4:15

think that it might be a different, a different approach

4:17

to

4:19

I needed actually to ask whether in

4:21

America you guys say dressing gown or would you say

4:23

bathrobe or

4:24

Bathrobe.

4:25

Yeah, I think we would say bathrobe.

4:27

you're right but you but you're such brilliantly

4:29

bilingual people you instantly knew what I was

4:31

talking about without me having to translate so

4:33

bathrobe yeah I guess so

4:35

That context clues, I figured it out.

4:37

oh bless you yeah thank you plus there's a big

4:40

picture of them on the on the

4:41

Yes, we were helped along

4:43

just a little bit.

4:45

Well, my good thing is going to be a little

4:47

bit out of date by the time this

4:49

episode is actually released. But

4:51

for me it is very current. We

4:53

just released issue one of Solstitia,

4:56

our literary magazine. Thank

4:59

you. It was a marathon.

5:02

does the title evoke the solstice solstice

5:04

yeah

5:05

Yes, it is actually. Which does mean it came

5:07

out on a Thursday, which is not the ideal

5:09

day of the week.

5:10

no but that was the that was two days ago

5:12

and that was the summer solstice it was well done

5:15

Got it out on time. That was my big

5:17

goal.

5:19

I was kind of thinking that

5:21

that may or may not happen, but we

5:23

did it.

5:24

We did it.

5:25

Well, well done guys.

5:27

It was really incredible reading all of the submissions

5:30

and seeing just all the really excellent

5:32

work that people are doing right now. It

5:34

Is it an online, or does it have a physical

5:36

presence, or?

5:37

is online only. It is three

5:39

dollars and you can buy the PDF

5:41

from our Patreon store. I'm

5:43

currently working on getting an EPUB version

5:46

out. That one did not come out on time.

5:48

No, well no, but you've got the footprint

5:50

down on the solstice, so that's great.

5:52

Yes. Thank you. And what is everyone

5:55

drinking today? I had to

5:57

make hot chocolate. I had to. It

5:59

was required.

6:00

Well, thank you. Yes, well that's, that is

6:02

what I, just before, I was too greedy

6:05

to wait until our discussion started.

6:07

I had to drink it beforehand. So I had my hot

6:09

chocolate. What I was checking was, I needed to find out where

6:11

it was originated. It's called Santo Domingo.

6:13

That's the estate, because it's a single estate hot

6:15

chocolate, but it's from the Dominican Republic.

6:18

And that, that was what I was just checking, which is

6:20

fascinating, because, you know, it's There's an island

6:22

in the Caribbean, and half of it is the Dominican

6:25

Republic, which is flourishing and happy

6:27

and thriving. The other half is Haiti,

6:29

which is falling apart. So it's just thought it was, it's

6:32

very strange that on the same island, two

6:34

such utterly different nations

6:36

sit side by side. But anyway, this

6:38

is really good hot chocolate, and I added

6:40

a big shot of cream to it.

6:45

Delicious.

6:46

Well, I've got a cream footnote because I listened

6:48

to a documentary about Agatha Christie, and the thing was,

6:50

she didn't drink booze, but

6:52

her treat was to drink cream. And

6:55

she just loved cream, which I can totally understand.

6:57

I couldn't drink up too much of it. But with the hot

6:59

chocolate, we have that contrast of the dark note

7:01

to the hot chocolate with the cream. I was telling my buddy

7:03

Joe Kramer this. He does the theme music

7:06

for the Vinyl Detective radio show that I

7:08

do. And we just had lunch and we walked

7:10

past the statue of Agatha Christie, which they have in the

7:12

West End of London. And, uh, he said,

7:14

Creamy Christie. Like a quick,

7:16

as smart as a webpage, he said Creamy Christie. I thought, Creamy

7:18

Christie is such a great name for, bless

7:21

her, Creamy Christie's Crimes.

7:23

Yeah, there, there you go.

7:24

Ooh.

7:25

Crimes, I like that.

7:27

That would be her Instagram handle

7:29

if she was writing today.

7:31

I, I hope it would. She's great.

7:33

And I've just, just before I saw you guys, I went

7:36

to a matinee of a play,

7:38

one of Agatha Christie's classic plays.

7:40

Go Back From Murder, which was on at a local,

7:42

like a local little theatre, local amateur dramatics

7:45

group. So I just saw that before I came

7:47

on here, so Agatha is very much on my mind.

7:50

Sarah, where's your hot chocolate?

7:51

So I did not make hot chocolate, mostly

7:54

because it was, it was too much effort.

7:56

I thought about it.

7:57

Oh no, no, I, just because it's my addiction,

7:59

I, you shouldn't, shouldn't feel obliged

8:01

to fall on the line with my addictions, guys.

8:03

But I, like, I wanted to because obviously

8:06

it ties in perfectly with the book.

8:07

Oh, it's true, it does, and that's, oh,

8:10

she drinks a fair amount of hot chocolate.

8:13

exactly the hot chocolate I just described. It's called

8:15

Tesco's Finest.

8:16

I was wondering when you were describing it, I was thinking,

8:18

this is familiar, I'm pretty sure that it's actually

8:21

in the book.

8:21

It is the one in the book, but that was totally an

8:24

uncontrived coincidence because it's

8:26

my favorite, right? So I drink it all the time. So I just

8:28

stuck it in the book. And also, I guess it's a kind of

8:30

a little bit of a shout out. If anybody

8:32

wants a tip on buying hot chocolate when you're in England,

8:35

this is such a great bargain. I should shut up because

8:37

otherwise everybody, I won't be able to get

8:39

it because everybody else will be buying it.

8:41

Yeah. No, it's awful. No one get

8:43

that. It's

8:44

they're

8:44

Yep, yep.

8:45

hands off.

8:47

Well, we're going to be discussing Ashram

8:49

Assassin at length in a moment, but

8:51

has anyone read anything else good lately?

8:54

I have done so much reading, like,

8:56

last week, that in between

8:58

our last podcast and this podcast, I've only

9:00

read Ashram Assassin.

9:02

Oh, bless you. But you didn't tell us what you,

9:04

what you were drinking, did you? Or did I miss that?

9:06

Oh, I, I'm drinking a, uh, black

9:08

tea.

9:09

Oh, that's a, that's a really good answer. No, black

9:11

tea's great. But not as good an answer

9:13

as reading Asher on Assassin. That's a really good

9:15

answer. you. Thank you for reading that.

9:18

I actually, I devoured Ashram Assassin.

9:20

I read it all in one evening. Really enjoyed

9:22

it.

9:23

Oh, thank you. I love it when that happens, when I get

9:25

a book that I just can't put down. And

9:27

in your case, you couldn't put it down because you had to do it

9:29

for a deadline. But when you stumble on

9:31

a book that you're not expecting, and

9:33

it's just like, like I had that with some of the,

9:35

uh, Girl with a Dragon Tattoo books, which is so

9:37

great.

9:38

I mean, it's true that I was reading this on

9:40

a deadline, but I wouldn't have put it down anyway,

9:42

because it was genuinely

9:44

very good.

9:45

There's also a South African crime writer called

9:47

Dion Meyer, and he wrote a book called 13

9:49

Hours, and that's, I only mention that because there again,

9:51

I was up at 2 in the morning, turning

9:53

pages, just because I couldn't put it down, and that's such

9:55

a lovely feeling, it really is great.

9:58

It really is.

9:59

you read anything recently?

10:01

I certainly have, and I obviously,

10:03

I, putting on a play, so I think about plays a lot, and I've been

10:05

reading lots about, not just plays themselves,

10:07

but also a really good book about the history of the theatre.

10:10

And I realized I'd never read any Oscar

10:12

Wilde, and he's considered, like, one of the pivotal playwrights.

10:14

Everybody sort of thinks they know his stuff, because

10:16

there's so many quotations floating around. So

10:19

I sat down, and I got my little Beautiful

10:21

little penguin collection of Oscar Wilde.

10:23

And I read The Importance of Being Earnest. It's great.

10:26

And it's great in a way that hasn't dated.

10:28

It's really, it's very modern. I mean, it's

10:30

just full of witty people saying witty stuff.

10:33

Very tightly written. You know, I was tremendously,

10:35

I can't tell you how impressed I was with The Importance of Being

10:37

Earnest. I went on to read, uh, Ideal Husband

10:40

and also, another

10:42

play in that collection. Uh, yes,

10:44

Lady Windermere's Fan, which of those plays,

10:47

the last one he wrote was The Importance of Being Earnest, so

10:49

he got better and better and better. So that's the

10:51

best. But even those earlier plays, and I believe

10:53

Lady Windermere's Fan was the first one, are

10:55

remarkably adroit, well constructed,

10:58

polished pieces of drama. I think some of the

11:00

other plays are perhaps a tiny

11:02

bit more dated than The Importance of Being Earnest, but

11:05

not by much in that they read incredibly

11:07

well. So I was knocked out by these plays,

11:09

because for me, You think, oh, Oscar Wilde is going to be

11:11

very 19th century and archaic

11:14

and a bit of a struggle to read, and

11:16

it was not like that at all. So I was very,

11:18

very, very impressed and I immediately ordered

11:20

some DVDs of BBC productions

11:22

of these plays and watched them. Because I love, I

11:25

love so much reading something and then seeing it,

11:27

you know, seeing a production of it. It's just a great kind

11:29

of dual vision, double vision.

11:31

Well, I also only read Ashram Assassin.

11:33

Uh huh. Ah! I had

11:35

the lucky one this week, I got to read something that wasn't Ashram

11:38

Assassin.

11:39

Oh, what a fun book.

11:40

Thank you.

11:41

Before we actually start talking

11:43

about it though, I want to go back to that question

11:45

that I had, because now that we're

11:47

getting into the book talk, you mentioned that

11:50

you got the cover art for the next Final Detective

11:52

novel before you'd really started

11:54

writing the book. Is that how it usually works

11:56

for you? Like you, you get the cover and then you

11:59

write?

11:59

No, it's often, the

12:01

last book, it came along, the

12:04

cover was developed quite late in

12:06

the process. The book had either been

12:08

written or it was well

12:10

underway, certainly, if not completely written.

12:12

But this time, I think, I've got a new editor

12:14

and I think that he's the kind of guy who likes

12:16

to get his ducks in a row early on. Which

12:18

I totally sympathize with, because when I was editing,

12:21

like I used to work on magazines, I wanted to get everything,

12:23

because especially, as you know, doing magazines,

12:26

it's all about scheduling and making

12:28

sure everything happens at the right time. So I'm totally

12:30

behind that. So I think he's been getting

12:33

stuff ready early. Although he, he

12:35

was stoutly maintaining that he needed these

12:37

cover images for promotion, because they're

12:39

going to start promoting the books well before they're published.

12:42

So maybe there's a new edict

12:44

at my publisher that they're doing this Or maybe

12:46

he's just an eager beaver. But either way, the cover

12:48

art happened before the book. They're very

12:50

good because they asked me to give them ideas for

12:53

the imagery. So I had to sit down and make some decisions

12:55

about imagery. Ah, well, now it's all

12:57

coming back to me. The cover art for the last

12:59

Divinal Detective, which was Noise Floor,

13:01

was indeed created while the book was still being written.

13:03

Because I remember, I said, okay, stick an

13:05

owl on the cover, and then I'll have to remember to put an

13:08

owl in the book. So, so, yes,

13:10

the cover art. But the book was definitely underway,

13:12

but whereas this one, I don't think I'd written a word

13:15

of it before. I'd written an outline, quite a detailed

13:17

outline, but I hadn't written any of the body

13:19

of the book itself when they, they asked me about

13:21

the cover. So I wrote a brief for the cover.

13:23

I put a lot of stuff in it and Martin Stiff,

13:25

who does the covers and is a very talented artist,

13:28

he just chose a few elements. So that

13:30

was cool. So I, without giving anything

13:32

away, it's called Underscore. And it's about

13:34

movie soundtracks. And it's actually about

13:36

a movie soundtrack from a movie made

13:38

in the 60s. So I did a little bit of research

13:41

on what a movie camera would have looked like then.

13:43

And so I sent him some images of appropriate cameras,

13:45

because I like trying to get things accurate.

13:47

So if there's going to be a movie camera on the cover, I wanted it to,

13:49

at least to be one that would have been from the correct era.

13:52

Period. Correct era. So he did,

13:54

he did include that in a couple other elements and

13:56

uh, I'll see if I can give you guys a sneak preview.

13:58

Cause I just, it was so great. I was so pleased

14:00

with it because they sent it to me and said, let

14:02

us know any changes you want. And I said, Oh, I'll

14:04

get back to you over the weekend. But

14:07

I thought, I can't think of any, you know, it

14:09

looks so perfect. Then after the weekend, I just thought,

14:11

let's just admit defeat. It doesn't

14:13

need any changes. It's great.

14:16

Thank you very much, Martin Stiff.

14:18

Well, I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to

14:20

read the book, but we are not actually here to

14:22

talk about Final Detective.

14:23

No, for once, we're, or no, for

14:25

For twice.

14:27

second time, we're not here to talk about The Violent

14:29

Detective.

14:29

Yes.

14:30

Well, unlike the Vinyl Detective series,

14:33

which, as listeners might be able to tell,

14:35

has quite a bit to do about vinyl. Ashram

14:38

Assassin is number two in your series

14:40

of books. The paperback sleuth, which,

14:43

as listeners might be able to tell, has much

14:45

more to do with actual physical books.

14:47

Vintage paperbacks, though, and, and we also

14:49

have to evoke the term mass market paperback,

14:52

because paperbacks have come to mean books of all

14:54

shapes and sizes, but these are classic,

14:57

Pocket sized paperbacks that you actually could

14:59

put in your pocket at one time. And that is

15:01

apparently the industry term for the mass

15:03

market paperback.

15:05

There were some very delightful meta

15:07

moments while I was sitting there reading that

15:09

book, because there are so many passages

15:12

about novels and books. And

15:14

I was sitting there going, I am reading a book right now.

15:16

I don't know, it was, there was nothing too

15:19

on the nose. It was just sort of a feeling

15:21

of self awareness that I don't often

15:23

get while I'm reading a book.

15:25

I do like to include that sort of thing. As

15:27

you remember in a recent Final Detective

15:29

novel, Attack and Decay, there's a bit

15:31

where they're talking about a book where the hero doesn't

15:33

have a name. So we

15:36

got quite meta for that one, which I enjoyed doing.

15:38

So I do like that kind of stuff.

15:40

It did make me wonder, how ironic would it

15:42

be if I was reading this as an e book right now?

15:48

But you might have had to read it as an e book because

15:50

I believe my publisher in America had to get

15:52

you guys copies in time. Did they get

15:54

you physical copies in time?

15:55

Yes, I did actually have the physical

15:57

copy that I was reading, which to

16:00

me, I think, really helped the experience.

16:02

I have been reading ebooks more and more lately,

16:04

but some books, I think, just fit

16:07

in a physical format better. And

16:09

this is one of them.

16:10

So I also read the physical book, which

16:13

I do think specifically with this

16:15

series, I do think it makes a difference because

16:17

it is about books and there's just

16:19

something fun about reading a physical book

16:21

that's in a series that's about like vintage mass

16:23

market paperbacks.

16:25

not sure these, I mean, these aren't mass market paper

16:27

bags. They're the next size up, aren't they? They're they used

16:29

to call trade paper, but they're, they're all the love for

16:31

that. And I don't think that de that detracts

16:34

from them. It's just nice to have that physical object.

16:37

You know, I think that, that, that's part of the, uh, the central

16:39

experience of reading. eBooks certainly

16:41

have their place 'cause they're lovely portable,

16:43

but I, I like to know how many pages I've got left

16:45

to read and I like to be able to flip back in

16:47

ways that eBooks don't really cater

16:50

for.

16:50

I will say that this book made me

16:53

hungry, as is usual for your

16:55

books, I have to

16:56

What, oh, was it about curries

16:58

and stuff was, or.

16:59

It's about curry. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of

17:01

mention of curry in this book, and I did go out

17:03

and buy curry for dinner

17:05

the evening that I, that I read

17:08

Oh, how lovely.

17:09

Oh, I'm so jealous.

17:13

hadn't been intending to, but I was like, I,

17:15

I can't read this without, without curry.

17:17

I do like a good curry, but they're very elaborate

17:20

to cook. That's the sort of thing I tend to have

17:22

in a restaurant.

17:23

I did feel like Cordelia, the main character,

17:26

because there are a few times in this book where she

17:28

is offered curry, and then it ends

17:30

up not working out, she doesn't actually get to have

17:32

it. And so I was sitting there going, I

17:34

also feel like curry is being yanked away

17:36

from me

17:37

Yes, that's right, she's frustrated,

17:39

your mouth is actually watering and she's about to have

17:41

this lovely, oh I enjoyed describing that

17:44

curry, that's right, I do like doing

17:46

that. I think it was Kingsley Amis who

17:48

pointed out that we're seldom more

17:51

sensually present in our

17:53

reading experience than when we're discussing the. food.

17:55

If it's well described, you know, you really get

17:57

into it. And I think he might even have cited

18:00

Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn

18:02

Waugh. Is that right? I think it was Evelyn Waugh. Because

18:05

that book was written in the aftermath

18:07

of World War II when nobody had, there

18:09

were no luxuries and it was all austerity. So

18:12

they're lavishly described banquets

18:14

are apparently kind of a major feature of that.

18:17

All of which is just to say we like reading about

18:19

food in books. Well, that's a bit

18:21

meta because there is a book about, she's

18:24

hunting down these rare paperbacks and one of

18:26

the traits of these rare paperbacks is the guy

18:28

loves writing about meals and stuff.

18:30

And there's a very centrally described meals in

18:32

the books within the book. So

18:34

I've forgotten that.

18:37

Oh, there's books within books and mysteries

18:40

within mysteries, but we won't talk about

18:42

those too much

18:43

Meals within meals.

18:44

Yes. One

18:47

of the other things that we get throughout this

18:49

book is Cordelia's relationship

18:53

with the yoga studio. That

18:55

she has previously been ejected

18:58

from and is now working with because

19:00

they need her to find these books that have been stolen.

19:03

And her, like, campaign,

19:06

just to make their lives difficult,

19:08

was so much

19:10

fun to read about.

19:12

Well, Cordelia is quite vindictive, which is one

19:14

of the things that distinguishes her from the violent detective,

19:16

who's kind of a straight arrow, nice guy.

19:19

So Cordelia indulges

19:21

all of the darker sides of our personalities,

19:23

because we all occasionally like want to be

19:25

nasty or mean, and she's, she has

19:27

no hesitation doing that if somebody's been nasty. I hasten

19:30

to say if somebody's been nasty or mean to her, she

19:32

isn't like that all the time. But she's, she's big

19:34

on revenge, for

19:36

instance, but to do

19:38

the whole yoga thing, that was all a

19:40

case of stuff that was sort of left

19:42

over and not used because when I sat down to write The Vinyl

19:44

Detective, I gave The Vinyl Detective a record

19:46

player like mine and a record collection like mine

19:49

and a house very like mine and

19:51

cats just like mine and, you know,

19:53

my foodie habits, but

19:56

what I did not give him was. Yoga, because

19:58

I thought about, oh, should he do yoga too, like

20:00

I do? And I thought, no, partly because

20:02

I didn't want there to be too much similarity

20:04

between me and him, but also because it didn't sort of

20:06

bring anything to the party. Because, you

20:08

know, as a vinyl detective guy who goes

20:10

out collecting records and digging in crates,

20:13

it didn't really sit particularly naturally in that world.

20:15

I thought, I did consider that maybe Nevada,

20:17

his girlfriend, or Agatha, their buddy, might

20:20

be a yoga type because it seemed natural,

20:22

but it never arose in those books. But it was

20:24

a, was and is a big part of my life. So,

20:26

you know, Being a writer, I've been looking

20:29

for a way to monetize that in my books, so

20:31

you know everything that passes from

20:33

my life experience is likely to end up

20:35

on the page, and

20:38

for sale in your local bookshop. So I

20:40

had yoga in the back of my mind for a long

20:42

time as something that would be featured

20:44

in a book, and then when I wrote the first paperback sleuth,

20:47

it There was a bit where she's just remembering

20:49

about when she went to the yoga center and got booted

20:51

out of it. And I, I went back and forth

20:53

about whether I should even leave that in there

20:55

because it had nothing to do with the plot of the first

20:58

book. It was just sort of like a bit of color or

21:00

background on the character, a bit of backstory,

21:02

but it had no relevance at all. And in

21:04

the end, I left it in. Then when I came to the

21:06

second book, I thought, ah, if I make

21:08

this actually about Her yoga

21:10

experience, then that's not a

21:12

piece of self-indulgence and irrelevance.

21:15

It's a beautiful little piece of setting up for the next

21:17

novel so that, that worked out

21:19

well.

21:20

This book did also make me want to do yoga.

21:23

Oh, tha thank you. I, uh, somebody

21:25

said that they found the yoga who, who

21:27

had done yoga. She said that she felt the yoga

21:29

was very well described, and I hope it is.

21:32

I've only been doing it for about 20 years.

21:36

I've done yoga a few times. One of the

21:39

things that Cordelia mentions in this book

21:41

is how much more she prefers

21:43

in person classes to just doing

21:45

it at home alone, and that baffles

21:48

me, but I'm a little bit of a homebody.

21:50

Well, I found that, for

21:52

years and years and years, I did do yoga at our

21:54

local ashram, which does not bear much resemblance

21:57

to the, initially bore

21:59

a close resemblance to the one in the books, but for reasons

22:01

of wanting to invent my own little world and

22:04

avoiding litigation, it's now completely

22:06

different from the one I used to go to. But the one I used

22:08

to go to, I used to think, oh, I can never do

22:10

yoga at home because I need the, uh, the incentive

22:13

of, you know, going to the class and having an

22:15

instructor. Well, that rapidly changed

22:17

when they put the prices up. So I started doing it

22:19

at home. I've been doing it at home now

22:21

for at least 10 years. And it's great

22:24

because I don't have to commute to do

22:26

the yoga. I just come downstairs and unroll the

22:28

mat. And, uh, it's a really

22:31

valuable part of my life. I'd recommend yoga. If

22:33

there's anything wrong with you, Yoga will help.

22:35

And if there's nothing wrong with you, yoga will

22:37

just make things better. I seriously recommend

22:40

it to everybody.

22:41

I do actually, in retrospect, Having

22:43

been to classes with an actual

22:45

trained instructor, I think, is probably

22:48

better. But once you've been to a few, you can probably

22:50

do it at home. I'm just thinking about yoga now.

22:52

You need to start out with getting

22:55

some proper instruction and when you feel

22:57

comfortable to just do it at home and

22:59

you, you know, you've got the poses clear in your head

23:02

and you're confident that you're doing them properly, there's

23:04

no reason not to do it at home. Except, you

23:06

know, unless you're a very social and gregarious

23:08

person and enjoy going to the yoga

23:10

center. And if they do great curries, which

23:13

my yoga center did used to do, so that's,

23:15

that's based on fact.

23:16

I would go to a yoga center for a great curry.

23:18

Yeah. Oh,

23:21

there is a moment at the end of

23:23

this book, which, no spoilers, I'm

23:26

just gonna say that this happens, we get a

23:28

Cordelia explains it all moment.

23:32

And it's a direct reference to

23:34

Hercule Poirot. Which I know,

23:36

because you named the chapter that. Thank

23:38

you.

23:39

it's, yeah, it's called Poirot and

23:41

Walkies because they're taking the dog for the walk while

23:43

they, they do the Poirot thing of explaining

23:46

the entire plot.

23:47

Well, I was wondering if there might have been any

23:50

other crime trope

23:52

or classic novel references that I missed,

23:55

because they were not as, as well

23:57

detailed as that to me.

23:59

Uh, I'm just running that through my head. I don't think

24:01

so. It's not a, I have written novels

24:03

that are heavily influenced by particular

24:06

crime writers. For instance, I did,

24:08

I think it was Low Action was the one

24:10

that was heavily influenced by Agatha Christie.

24:12

That was a vinyl detective novel. And

24:14

there was a vinyl detective novel called

24:17

Victory Disc, which was heavily influenced by Colonel

24:19

Woolrich, a largely forgotten suspense writer,

24:21

but a brilliant suspense writer. But this one,

24:24

not especially, except for that, that wind up, which

24:26

Poirot usually sits everybody down and talks

24:29

them through what actually happened. And so I rang the

24:31

changes on that by having them walk and

24:33

walk the dog. Largely because

24:35

it turned out to be a really long sequence of explanation.

24:38

So by structuring it that way,

24:40

I could describe the various, the places they

24:42

were walking through, just to make it

24:45

less of an info dump, right? But also,

24:47

I then realized that if they walked to

24:49

a certain place, they could actually

24:52

tie up a little loose end of plot,

24:54

which they then do, which I was very pleased with that.

24:56

It made it seem all a little, a lot more,

24:58

planned and, uh, and clever

25:01

than it had been originally.

25:02

Are there any crime novel tropes

25:05

that you're particularly excited about

25:07

including in a future novel that you haven't explored

25:09

in either Vinyl Detective or the Paperback

25:12

Sleuth series? I

25:13

I'm not sure about tropes

25:16

is quite the right word, because what happens is I, I

25:18

read a certain writer and I

25:21

really love their stuff. So for instance,

25:23

I've been reading a lot of John Dixon Carr,

25:25

who also wrote, confusingly, under the pseudonym

25:27

Carter Dixon. And the thing about his books,

25:29

well, they often seem to be

25:32

supernatural. Right. So

25:34

they have a real atmosphere of kind of supernatural

25:36

menace. Nine times out of ten, they turn out

25:38

to be everything is explained away, but

25:41

there was at least one where it was supernatural

25:44

in which it blew everybody's minds. So

25:46

his stuff has a genuine mood

25:48

of the macabre, which originated

25:50

with Edgar Allan Poe, who was one of his heroes.

25:53

But, um, he's much more adroit than Poe. So

25:55

he presents this kind of supernatural

25:58

vibe, which I really kind of like. And also,

26:00

utterly brilliant descriptions

26:03

of just general atmosphere. Like

26:05

in about seven words, you'll nail down

26:07

like a foggy day or a rainy

26:09

morning or a sunny afternoon. And you're, there's

26:12

such beautiful, succinct poetic descriptions

26:14

that you're instantly there. So that whenever I've

26:16

got to describe what it's like outside,

26:19

I think, you know, it's John Dixon Carr.

26:22

And I've, I've got some John Dixon Carrs stacked

26:24

up to read, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if

26:27

I was to write under

26:29

the influence of that. But that

26:31

doesn't really affect the book's structure, except maybe

26:33

if you're going to make it seem supernatural, have

26:35

some supernatural MacGuffins, which may well be,

26:38

Not sure yet, but I think that may well be the way the next

26:40

final detective is going. But I've also been

26:42

reading Ellery Queen. And Ellery Queen

26:44

is a very, very famous American

26:47

crime novelist. In fact, it's a pseudonym

26:49

for two crime writers. I won't

26:51

get their names wrong, but we

26:53

can look them up before the end of the show. But

26:55

so it was these two guys, they adopted the pseudonym

26:57

of Ellery Queen, and they actually called the detective

27:00

Ellery Queen. So it was as if he was writing about

27:02

his own adventures. These books came

27:04

highly recommended. And of course, they've

27:06

sold millions and millions and millions of copies. In some ways,

27:08

this was the American Agatha Christie. So

27:10

I finally got around to reading some, and they're

27:13

very mixed bag, because John

27:15

Dixon Carr, his prose

27:17

is just beautiful. He's a great, great,

27:20

beautiful writer, but Ellery Queen

27:22

isn't. Ellery Queen is a very clumsy

27:24

writer and a very crude writer,

27:26

and the characters, again in John Dixon

27:28

Carr, the characters are often brilliant. beautifully

27:31

evoked and like quite realistic and their

27:33

interactions are fascinating. In Elderly Queen

27:35

they're like caricatures, they're cardboard.

27:38

But the plots in the Elderly

27:40

Queen are so fantastic.

27:43

the one I read I believe was called Cat of Nine Tails.

27:46

And it was so,

27:48

like, you think you've guessed

27:50

it and then you absolutely

27:53

haven't guessed it. The plot, they're amazingly

27:56

carefully crafted plots.

27:58

And, uh, so although I

28:00

do, I look downs

28:02

on the prose style and the

28:04

characterization. There's no denying

28:06

the absolute brilliance of the plots. So I

28:09

do want to write an Hillary Queen style

28:12

novel, but the trick with that is

28:14

you've got to think of a

28:17

really, you know, you have to dream up a really

28:19

complicated and brilliant Plot.

28:22

And, you know, you can't just sit down and think, oh, today

28:24

I'm going to come up with a mind blowingly complex

28:26

and satisfying plot. Somehow

28:28

you have to be lucky enough to have that, to

28:31

luck into that. I've just checked online.

28:33

It's called Cat of Many Tales, not Cat of

28:35

Nine. I knew I'd got it slightly wrong. That is a good

28:37

one. It's still not up to John Dixon Carr

28:39

standards, but it takes place in a very well

28:41

evoked, sultry New York

28:43

summer when, you know, the New York is just, swelteringly

28:46

hot and the murders are taking place.

28:48

And it's actually an early serial killer novels, one

28:50

of the first. It was written back in the 40s, I believe.

28:53

And it's a really good one to start with because

28:55

it's, like I say, it'll just blow

28:57

your mind. Like the whodunit

28:59

is just so great. And

29:02

the reason for why the murder, it's not just the

29:04

whodunit, but the why dunit. is magnificent.

29:08

So I'd like to do another Equine style

29:10

one, but that means I'm going to have to come up with

29:12

a really fantastic story, and that doesn't

29:14

happen every day. So that's something I like

29:16

to do. It's much easier to go down the John Dixon

29:18

Carr route and just write beautifully

29:20

and come up with good characters, which is something I hope I've

29:22

been doing for a while anyway. Thank

29:27

you. It's very, very kind of you.

29:29

Well, there is still quite a bit about the plot

29:31

of this book that I am excited to discuss.

29:33

But before we get to the spoilers section, Sarah,

29:36

who should read this book?

29:37

You should read this book if you like crime novels

29:39

with morally gray main characters.

29:42

true.

29:43

And also, if you've read Death in Fine Condition,

29:45

like, definitely read this book.

29:47

Thank you. I, I like this book, I shouldn't

29:49

say this because I wrote both books, I like this one a

29:51

lot better. It was so much easier to

29:53

write, like it just flowed really quickly

29:56

and I think that's probably inevitable because in the

29:58

first book I was creating the character and her world,

30:00

so it was a bit of an uphill battle because I was

30:02

setting everything up and now everything is

30:04

set up, so this one just whooshed along in

30:06

a very agreeable way when I was writing it.

30:11

The remainder of this episode contains

30:14

spoilers.

30:20

It was interesting for me, the comparison between

30:22

the first book and this book, in

30:24

the way that the tension

30:26

was different.

30:28

Oh, do tell, tell more.

30:30

The first book made me anxious.

30:32

Like, don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it,

30:34

but I had a lot of anxiety reading

30:36

it because Cordelia

30:38

was causing a lot of

30:40

the bad situations for herself.

30:43

True, very true,

30:44

Like, basically, the whole

30:47

plot of The first book is her fault.

30:49

Yes, that's, that's absolutely right, yeah.

30:51

Like she, she causes it. And so that

30:53

made me really anxious. Whereas this

30:55

book, that's not the case. And so

30:58

I could sit down and just

31:00

kind of flow through it. And not to

31:02

say that like either style of tension

31:04

is better than the other, but I did

31:06

find it an interesting comparison.

31:08

It hadn't occurred to me that that was the case, but that's a very

31:11

important distinction. And also it makes

31:13

this more like a classic crime novel. I

31:15

think that those stories where the characters

31:17

plunge themselves into a morass

31:20

of danger, they're often noir

31:22

stories, aren't they? Rather than police

31:24

procedurals, or straightforward mysteries,

31:26

or whodunnits. They're usually very

31:28

dark, noir ish novels, which

31:30

don't end well. But that one did, fortunately

31:33

for our heroine.

31:34

That one did, but I think because

31:36

it does kind of have a different tradition

31:39

that it's pulling from, I was not expecting

31:41

it to end well. Or at least not quite

31:43

as well.

31:44

I'm glad that they're different, and I think that this also

31:46

might make Ashram Assassin an easier

31:48

read, because it's more in the classic

31:50

lineage.

31:51

Yeah. And also, I feel like, again,

31:53

because Cordelia is not the

31:56

cause of

31:57

The danger.

31:58

everything that goes wrong, yeah, the cause of

32:00

the danger, she's a

32:02

little bit more moderate

32:05

in this book. Like she talks about her

32:07

thievery and things like that, but

32:10

she doesn't do quite

32:12

as much of that in this book.

32:14

She's not as morally compromised character

32:17

this

32:17

Yeah,

32:18

which is good. It's good because she, uh, you know,

32:20

she, she was quite towards the dark side in the

32:22

first book. And it's nice that she's less so now.

32:24

We also get a very different version

32:27

of her crush on Agatha

32:29

in this book. She sort of works through

32:31

it in the first book, and we see a little bit of

32:33

that tailing off, but in a very

32:35

different way.

32:36

she's not as obsessive in this book.

32:39

that's good. And there's a good reason for

32:41

that. And I think it's not something I could do twice.

32:43

But one of the ways I found, when I was writing

32:45

the first paperback sleuth book, it took me

32:47

a while to sort of get into it and get into

32:50

that world. And one of the ways I found my way

32:52

into the character of Cordelia, was by giving

32:54

her an almost Nabokovian

32:56

obsession, a romantic obsession,

32:59

sexual obsession. And so that

33:01

was, I thought, well, I can write that character because

33:03

I know what she's about, because I know she's got this,

33:05

you know, fixation. And so suddenly

33:07

I knew exactly what she was thinking and feeling.

33:10

So that was the reason. But having now

33:12

got the character up and running, I I no longer

33:14

needed that, and also it would have been a bit repetitive

33:17

to have her still locked into that, that obsession,

33:19

but at the same time it needed to be

33:21

at least alluded to to be realistic,

33:23

I felt. And also it's just fun because it

33:25

brings the violent detective characters back in.

33:28

Yes, it was so much fun seeing Nevada

33:30

in this book. Although, is she

33:32

named? She does get a name, right?

33:34

She is named in this book,

33:36

I think she might even introduce herself

33:38

because they sit down and have a little chat, don't they, which

33:40

is not something that happened before.

33:42

Yeah, they talk a little bit and

33:44

I think Cordelia mentions that oh,

33:46

you know She's Stinky's sister and she

33:48

had a thing with Tinkler and so they do

33:51

have a little chat

33:52

Yeah, which is very useful because now

33:54

they sort of know fully about each other and we can do

33:56

effortless crossovers between the two series.

34:00

Oh, but Cordelia wasn't awake when

34:02

she was rescued by Agatha. Heartbreaking.

34:06

It's rather neatly done that Agatha's

34:09

vanished, like, Agatha's gone

34:11

to change her clothes after the rescue,

34:13

which is perfect, but it's perfect for two reasons, because

34:15

it means that Nevada and Cordelia

34:17

can chat just between the two of them, but also

34:20

it means that Lorde. Heartbreak

34:23

of Cordelia continues, which it sort of has

34:25

to, because the whole point

34:27

of unrequited love is that it's unrequited. And

34:30

So there's a Excellent moment

34:32

in this book, where Cordelia is

34:34

trying to get home, she has to go to the bathroom,

34:37

and so what does she do? Find a private

34:39

piece of woods where she can go pee behind a

34:41

tree. And we got this incredibly,

34:43

like, unglamorous moment

34:45

where that's when,

34:47

the bad guy attacks,

34:49

yeah, and just the most inopportune

34:52

moment possible.

34:54

Well, I'm, I'm glad that it worked, but it was, it's a case

34:56

of, you want that to happen when

34:58

someone is at their most vulnerable.

35:00

I really enjoyed it because I feel

35:02

like that's not the kind of vulnerability

35:05

that we get a lot in these

35:08

kinds of scenes. Like, just, I

35:10

don't know, something about actually having her

35:12

be peeing in the woods and be attacked

35:14

made it seem very grounded.

35:17

Yeah. It's not like a Brian De Palma

35:20

attack in the shower scene. Are

35:22

we in, into the spoiler section now

35:25

We are in the spoiler section, yes.

35:27

Great. So, so it needs saying

35:29

that, that we've got a woman peeing in the woods and she's

35:31

attacked by another woman, which has a completely different

35:33

vibe to if it had been a male attacker.

35:35

Absolutely, yeah.

35:36

Yeah, so that kind of works. And

35:38

there's a sort of, something about the female and

35:41

female violence just seemed to work

35:43

in that context.

35:44

It was very funny. So at this point we have

35:46

discovered that the killer is

35:48

one of the heads of the yoga studio.

35:51

That's right. I shouldn't laugh, but

35:53

I do, because it's, I'm just, it's just amused by

35:55

the characters. I'm sorry.

35:57

I loved it. It was so

36:00

absolutely hysterical to me

36:02

that the two, like, leaders of

36:04

the yoga studio were so

36:06

lame. Like, in

36:09

the stick in the mud sense of lame. And

36:12

then when we discover that Alfie

36:14

was actually the founder of the whole thing,

36:16

and he was very chill.

36:19

that's right. It's like his disciples

36:22

are the antithesis of the man who founded

36:24

the ashram. It's true.

36:26

It was just so deeply funny. I loved it.

36:28

It felt like they took it too seriously.

36:30

Like, he knew that he was basically just making

36:32

everything up. And they were like, we

36:34

are true believers. Everything is

36:37

serious.

36:38

is exactly, I think, the trajectory of

36:40

all religions, isn't it? It's something like

36:42

that. Yeah. So yeah, and I

36:44

did enjoy creating those characters. I'm

36:46

not sure I could even tell you what their proper

36:48

names are at this stage. I

36:51

just gave them both quite memorable nicknames,

36:53

which is very handy I think for readers because

36:55

sometimes it's hard to keep track of names, but

36:58

if you give people memorable nicknames, vivid

37:00

nicknames, they stick.

37:02

Yeah, the, the nicknames helped.

37:05

And also it's true to ashram life

37:07

that in, at least in the yoga ashrams

37:09

I've been to, people get given Sanskrit

37:11

names, which are, you know, are usually

37:13

fascinating evocative

37:15

names, but you'd never know what

37:17

their, you know, their real name was Fred Johnson in

37:21

actuality.

37:22

That's fascinating. I wonder if it's

37:25

just a quirk of the yoga studios I've

37:27

been to. But they've been much more, um,

37:29

just like, exercise focused. There has not

37:31

been much of the, the trimmings of,

37:34

of the spirituality around it.

37:36

There's all kinds of yoga studios out there. The one, the

37:38

only one that I really knew came with

37:40

a whole package of sort of, sort of, uh, part

37:42

of the Eastern ritual to it.

37:44

Very cool. There's a character

37:46

that we get introduced to in the first book.

37:49

Edwin. Cordelia's landlord.

37:52

And, at this point, I would say good friend.

37:55

He's such a useful character.

37:57

He gets so much more page time in this book.

37:59

It was delightful.

38:00

does he? I guess he does. I hadn't really

38:02

realized that. The thing about in the first book, you're sort of

38:04

holding back the big reveal about Edwin, so

38:06

you don't want too much of him. But once the big reveal

38:08

has been revealed, you can have him as much as you like,

38:11

really.

38:11

It was great seeing more of him. And it was so interesting

38:13

how, I mean, having read book one,

38:16

we knew his secret. Cordelia

38:18

knows his secret. But this

38:20

book kind of plays that close to the

38:22

chest, I would say, through at least the first

38:25

half.

38:25

I think you need to because you don't know what

38:28

order people are going to be reading the books in, and you don't

38:30

want to spoil things too much because there's

38:32

no guarantee people will have read book one before they read

38:34

this. So it's kind of a fine balancing

38:37

act between giving away too much and not giving away

38:39

enough.

38:39

Well, he was a very good friend, I have to

38:41

say. I don't know what Cordelia would have done without

38:43

him.

38:44

It's nice because he, he has her back.

38:46

I don't think Cordelia would be around

38:48

if, if it weren't for him.

38:51

No, he's saved her life, hasn't he? Very much

38:53

so.

38:54

A couple of times.

38:55

I love him and his dog because

38:58

although he is, you know, he's

39:01

killed many a person, he's

39:03

basically quite a boring guy, which

39:06

I think is sort of his character note.

39:08

He's just a bit boring.

39:09

Well, and that juxtaposition between

39:11

how he presents, you know, as boring

39:14

and he listens to opera and he does

39:16

the crossword or whatever.

39:18

It's true, he does all those things, doesn't he? It's very,

39:20

very true.

39:20

And he repairs bikes and all these

39:22

very normal kinds of things. And he

39:25

wears, what is it like tweed or things like

39:27

that. And then actually

39:29

he's a serial killer and kills a lot of

39:31

people who are not great. Yeah.

39:33

I think it's just a great mental contrast

39:36

I was going to say he's never killed anybody who didn't deserve

39:39

it, but then I realized that he's never killed anybody

39:41

who didn't deserve it according to, to

39:43

his set of rules.

39:45

according. Yeah.

39:46

yeah, so that's not necessarily

39:48

the same thing, is it? But I don't want people to get the impression,

39:50

if anybody's listening to these spoilers, well

39:52

they shouldn't be. I don't want them to get the impression that he's the kind

39:54

of hideous animal like to serial killer.

39:56

He's very much set up as being not that kind of serial

39:59

killer. He's a serial killer who only kills when

40:01

either it's, absolutely

40:03

kind of necessary, or it's in his own mind

40:05

to make the world a better place by ridding it of some

40:08

terribly evil person.

40:09

I mean, like, as a person in the real

40:11

world, I probably wouldn't be

40:13

a fan because you shouldn't kill people,

40:16

even if they're, you know, terribly rude.

40:18

But as a character in a novel,

40:21

I think he's just excellent.

40:22

Yes.

40:23

It's great because he's such a boring

40:25

kind of chap, but then he has all this kind of weapons

40:28

expertise and stuff, and he's

40:30

got such a talent for mayhem,

40:32

which is nice.

40:33

You set up several different

40:35

theories throughout this book as Cordelia

40:38

is trying to solve A, who stole

40:40

the books, and then B, who

40:42

has been killing people afterwards.

40:44

right.

40:45

And I was wondering if you had a favorite

40:47

red herring.

40:48

Oh, I do love, love

40:50

Red Herrings. I'm trying to think what, what false

40:52

tracks I might've laid out. I'm trying to think who

40:54

I wanted people to guess who

40:57

it was. I think probably Alfie because

40:59

he's such a likable character. He's almost

41:01

begging to be the bad guy, isn't he? So that,

41:03

that would certainly have been one. And, um,

41:06

Carrie. Carrie Cooks Curry. That was

41:08

my mnemonic for her. So

41:10

I think Carrie was probably another one I

41:12

wanted people to think might have been her.

41:14

Carrie Quinn, the curry queen.

41:16

Thank you. There you go. It's useful having

41:18

these, these, otherwise, after

41:20

you've written a bunch of books, it's sometimes hard to remember the

41:22

secondary characters names.

41:24

Carrie was definitely the person that I

41:26

suspected. For the longest time.

41:29

And I mean, it turns out that she does

41:31

have a little bit to do with it.

41:33

bad guy adjacent, rather than actually

41:35

a bad guy,

41:35

Yeah. She's not the one who's doing the killing,

41:38

but she is part of kind of that initial

41:40

plot.

41:41

But hopefully you guys didn't guess who it was.

41:43

I did not,

41:44

Nope. Nope.

41:45

I was kind of thinking it would be, was

41:47

her name Jodi or Joni? Joni,

41:50

the front desk woman who's like been snubbed

41:53

by the studio.

41:54

she was a classic right up to the point where she ends

41:56

up in hospital and then we know it's not her.

41:58

I almost wanted it to be her because I

42:00

felt like she was the most justified for

42:02

being mad at the studio. I was like,

42:04

you get em girl.

42:06

She's very fatally treated, the poor thing.

42:08

Yeah, she was originally called Jenny in an

42:10

early draft, and I changed it to Joni because

42:13

J O N I, like Joni Mitchell, it's just more memorable

42:15

on the page.

42:16

Is that why we get the scene

42:19

where Cordelia is trying to remember

42:21

her name and she says Jenny

42:23

exactly right.

42:24

of numbers? Yeah.

42:25

draft it was Jenny. And I actually

42:27

have a friend called Jenny and I didn't, I don't want

42:29

her to think I'm talking about her, so I changed

42:31

it.

42:34

Well I think those were all of the questions we

42:36

had. Was there anything that you

42:38

hoped readers would take away from this book other

42:40

than yoga and curry?

42:42

hope that people find it as

42:44

easy to read as I found it to write because it

42:47

just whooshed, it just zoomed along.

42:49

And I, I really enjoyed it compared to the first

42:51

one, which is a case of like putting an intricate mosaic

42:53

together. This one just flowed

42:56

and I hope that that conveys itself to the reader.

42:58

And that they enjoy it. And I really urge

43:00

people to jump in this series on the second book. Don't

43:03

feel you have to read the first book. And I said this

43:05

about the final detective too, just jump

43:07

in later in the series. And I really hope that

43:09

they get a kick out of it.

43:11

And I do feel like actually you

43:13

could start with this book because you explain

43:15

pretty much everything that you need to know about

43:17

the characters. So even

43:20

if you don't know them, like you're not

43:22

feeling lost by who they are

43:24

and what's happening and what they've done previously.

43:26

Yeah, definitely.

43:27

Thank you for that. And, and while you were saying that, I just

43:29

remembered something I really liked about this book, which I like

43:31

to mention is that the so called widow

43:33

of the guy who runs the

43:35

Yes! Oh I loved that.

43:37

Yes, that was amazing.

43:39

I liked her as a character and

43:41

I loved, like, although we have the twist

43:43

about who did the killing and all that, we

43:45

had this really subsidiary subplot

43:48

twist where it turns out that her husband

43:50

isn't dead at all. And

43:52

I just, I just really, I really enjoyed

43:54

her vengeance because she's got rid of his book

43:56

collection. She's got rid of his wine cellar

43:59

and she's just such a cool character. I just, I

44:01

know that wasn't a big thing about the book in terms

44:03

of plot, but I was just really enjoyed that

44:05

little, that little strand of it.

44:07

That was an excellent reveal. And you

44:09

know, honestly, good for

44:10

Yeah, that's what I think, too.

44:13

As we wrap up here, is there anything

44:15

that you can tell us or our listeners about current

44:18

projects? Things we have to look forward to?

44:20

So at the top of the show I mentioned my play, and

44:22

if you are listening in London and it's not yet

44:24

the end of July in 2024, please

44:26

come to my play. It's on in South,

44:29

South, what is it, Southwest? It's in

44:31

West London, in Chiswick, at the Tabard

44:33

Theatre. So that's one project. Depending

44:35

on how things play out, there might

44:37

be another play this year. I'm hoping that there'll be another

44:39

play in the autumn. But the most immediate

44:42

thing is the next Final Detective novel, which

44:44

is called Underscore, all one word. Underscore. And

44:46

I've started writing that, and I've begun to find my way

44:48

into it, and it's quite exciting, now I've got the cover.

44:51

As soon as that's finished, I write the

44:53

next paperback sleuth, which is called

44:55

Like a Bullet, which is a very kind

44:57

of crime novel, thriller y title, but it's

44:59

actually taken from a poem by Herman

45:02

Melville called Shiloh. So

45:04

I liked that. It's quite an apt quote

45:06

for the book, but it's just a great title for a thriller,

45:08

Like a Bullet.

45:09

Absolutely. Sounds like we have a lot to look

45:11

forward to from you.

45:13

Sounds like I better get to work.

45:15

That too. In the meantime, where

45:18

can you be found on the internet for our listeners

45:20

who want to keep track of updates from

45:22

you, you know, buy your books, find

45:24

your plays?

45:25

So I am on Instagram.

45:28

Andrew Cartman was already gone on Instagram.

45:30

It turned out Vinyl Detective was already gone on

45:32

Instagram. So I think I'm

45:34

called Vinyl Detective London.

45:36

I might even be Vinyl Detective London 2. But

45:38

if you look, you can find me on Instagram.

45:41

And as with Facebook

45:43

and Twitter, I refuse to call

45:45

anything else. I'm just Andrew Cartman.

45:47

I'll make sure it's 1L. But on all three

45:49

of those, Socials. It's the same

45:51

picture of me with a cat by my shoulder, and that's

45:53

how you know you've got the right person. And if you want

45:56

to jump in on any of those, you will hear

45:58

about my latest shenanigans. I

46:00

do have a book blog,

46:03

a reading blog, which is sort of fell

46:05

by the wayside during the pandemic, but I'm about

46:07

to re introduce that.

46:09

So by the time this comes out, who knows, it

46:11

might even be back up and running. And that was called Narrative

46:14

Drive. It's

46:15

Fantastic. Well, thank

46:17

you again so much for joining us. This has been

46:19

a fantastic conversation, and I

46:21

cannot wait for Underscore.

46:23

Thank you so much, guys.

46:29

Thank you so much for listening to this episode

46:31

of Fiction Fans.

46:32

Come disagree with us. We're on Twitter,

46:35

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46:37

at FictionFansPod. You

46:39

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46:42

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46:44

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46:46

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46:48

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46:50

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46:51

We also have a Patreon, where you can support

46:54

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and a lot of other nonsense.

46:58

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains

47:01

always be defeated.

47:02

Bye!