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1:02

example that comes to mind is... show

1:05

are you guys putting on here today? You're not interested

1:07

in art? No. Now look, we're going

1:09

to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation. From

1:13

Chicago, this is Film Spotting. I'm Adam

1:15

Kempinar. And I'm Josh Larson. Here

1:19

at lacuna, we have a safe technique

1:21

for the focused erasure of troubling memories.

1:23

Is there any risk of brain damage?

1:26

It's not likely the procedure is brain

1:28

damage. It's going to power with a

1:30

night of heavy drinking. Nothing you'll miss.

1:34

Sure, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless

1:36

Mind featured stars like Jim Carrey

1:38

and Kate Winslet, as well as

1:40

exciting behind-the-camera talent like screenwriter Charlie

1:42

Kaufman and director Michelle Gondry. But

1:44

when it came out in March

1:46

2004, did we have any idea

1:48

what a mind-bending, heartbreaking, yet still

1:51

romantic creation we would be getting?

1:53

And here's another question for you. What does

1:55

that creation look like 20 years later? This

1:57

week, Eternal Sunshine at 20. Plus

2:00

the first film in our William Wyler marathon,

2:02

1936's Dodsworth. That

2:04

and more. Can I borrow a piece of your chicken? And

2:08

then you took it. Ahead on film spotting.

2:21

Welcome to film spotting. Josh, the results from

2:24

Sunday night's Oscars are already being erased from

2:26

my mind. Quiz me before I forget what

2:28

happened. I mean surely you

2:30

remember Best Picture Winner. I do

2:32

remember Oppenheimer winning and doing quite

2:34

well at the Oscars. I also

2:36

remember that I'm pretty

2:39

sure I got six out of six in

2:41

my predictions in those big categories that we

2:43

did as part of our Oscars special with

2:45

Michael Miller. I knew that will never slip

2:47

from your mind. Twenty years from now, you'll

2:50

be bringing that up. I

2:52

usually do quite poorly. We did

2:54

see Oppenheimer win Best Picture, Nolan

2:56

for Best Director, Cillian Murphy for

2:58

Best Actor, Robert Downey Jr. for

3:00

Best Supporting Actor. Maybe

3:03

the surprise, I know there's been a lot

3:05

of discourse about it. I did in this

3:07

case correctly predict that Emma Stone would win

3:09

Best Actress for Poor Things. The

3:12

discourse isn't about that. It's not about my choice.

3:14

Josh, no one's talking about that. Not

3:16

enough people are talking about that. Were you the

3:18

only person in America who predicted it? I think

3:20

I was. Okay. I think

3:22

I was. Oscar wins for seven of the

3:24

ten Best Picture nominees. But then

3:27

we got a few that were shut out,

3:29

Killers of the Flower Moon, Maestro, and Past

3:31

Lives. Random thoughts, reactions,

3:34

hot takes on the Oscars, which you

3:36

did watch unlike me. I

3:38

thought it was a lot of fun. I know

3:40

Sam and his newsletter was a bit more

3:43

down on the ceremony itself. That

3:45

newsletter, you can get it if you're a film spotting family

3:47

member, by the way. Sam had a

3:49

great report the day after the ceremony. I

3:52

thought it was really fun. Ryan

3:54

Gosling's ten performance

3:56

alone would be worth three

3:58

hours of drudgery. I've watched

4:00

it a few times on social media. It was so

4:02

good. And even within

4:05

the context of the rest of the things

4:07

going on, there were a lot of highlights.

4:09

I thought John Cena's whole presentation, which if

4:11

you have not watched that yet, Adam, you

4:14

should for costume design,

4:16

so well done. And

4:19

I think Sam and I split a

4:21

little bit on this where they had

4:23

previous winners introduce each

4:25

acting nominee. I

4:27

understand and agree with his complaint that it

4:29

took time away from Clips. I too want

4:31

Clips, Clips, Clips, Clips, Clips, more Clips than

4:33

the Oscars. Since I was a

4:36

kid, that's why I watched, especially when I was a kid, because

4:38

these were all movies I wasn't able to see, right? And so

4:40

I lived off of those. I still love

4:42

that it's part of the ceremony. And this took away

4:44

from that. But when it worked, when you could tell

4:46

that one of those actors had

4:49

a genuine connection or

4:51

a specific appreciation about the performance,

4:54

I thought it was really cool. And

4:56

then there were fun bits like Nicholas

4:59

Cage teasing Giamatti about going all in

5:01

and wearing a contact to get that

5:03

effect in his eye and saying the

5:05

joke about, of course, I would do that too. So

5:07

some of them fell flat, but enough of them worked

5:10

for me. Yeah, I thought it

5:12

was quite a fun ceremony. It

5:14

was a little chaotic in our house. We had

5:16

a lot of family members over. Most

5:19

importantly, and I don't know if you filled out

5:21

an entire ballot, Adam, I wish that

5:23

you had because then I could have

5:25

pitted you against my dad who got,

5:28

I think, 15 or 18

5:30

categories right. And one took it, took the prize

5:33

for the night. So he might

5:35

have been able to take even you down, Mr.

5:37

Oscar expert. I'm sure he would have. Had I

5:39

filled out an entire ballot, there's no way I

5:41

would have stayed perfect. I probably would

5:43

have gotten about half right. I'll give a

5:45

little shout out to my daughter, Sophie, the

5:48

movie theater she works at, film scene. They

5:50

had their own competition. I can't remember if it's what, 32 or

5:52

33 total categories. She

5:55

only missed two. She won the

5:57

thing. Holy cow. Yeah. That,

6:00

if the internet is not ablaze about that, Adam,

6:03

we need to get to work and file a

6:05

complaint. Next year, I'm out of

6:07

my seat. Sophie is in my seat. That

6:10

will probably be it for Oscar

6:12

Talk, at least on this week's

6:14

episode and for a few months

6:16

before we get into the prestige

6:18

fall movie season. Josh and we

6:20

start this whole hamster wheel all

6:22

over again. Later in the show, Film Spotting

6:25

Madness, Best of the 1950s,

6:27

will give you around two results, and we will

6:29

have our Sweet 16 match-ups.

6:32

How about these titles that have advanced? Trying

6:35

to get past Hitchcock and Kurosawa,

6:37

Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, Truffaut's The

6:39

400 Blows, Ozu's Tokyo Story, David

6:41

Lean's The Bridge on the River

6:43

Kwai, a little bit of a

6:45

Cinderella story so far.

6:48

For more info or

6:50

to vote, filmspotting.net/madness. Also

6:52

later in the show, we'll go back to the 1930s

6:55

for the first movie in our William Weiler marathon.

6:58

Speaking of the Oscars, Weiler nominated a record

7:00

12 times for Best Director, one at three

7:02

times. We'll start the marathon with

7:04

Dodsworth from 1936 that earned

7:06

Weiler the first of

7:09

those Best Director nominations. You've got

7:11

Walter Houston, the father of John Houston,

7:13

starring along with Ruth Chatterton, Mary Astor,

7:15

and a young David Niven. More

7:18

about the Weiler marathon, including the full

7:20

lineup, is at filmspotting.net/marathons and I have

7:22

reason to believe, Josh, that we may

7:25

have a little bit of a disagreement

7:27

about the first entry in our William

7:29

Weiler marathon. We don't have a lot

7:31

of disagreements over these classic films that

7:34

are part of our marathons. It should

7:36

be a good discussion. Yeah. Yeah.

7:39

Usually we come out of the gate all

7:41

effusive, full of praise and maybe

7:43

a few quibbles, maybe a quibble here and there.

7:46

Josh will be quibbling. All right. Eternal

7:49

Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. For

7:52

what has become one of the most cherished

7:54

films of the last quarter century, it had

7:56

a pretty modest theatrical run. It opened almost

7:58

exactly 20 years ago. this week on

8:01

about 1,300 screens but never expanded

8:03

wider and made a modest 34

8:06

million dollars domestically. I looked it up

8:08

today Josh 78th on the list of

8:11

2004's highest grocers. I'm

8:13

gonna give you a hundred guesses to name the

8:15

movie that came in ahead of it earned 2

8:18

million more dollars at number 77. I'm going

8:21

to go with Along Came Polly. I

8:24

think you love Along Came Polly don't you? I

8:27

am a fan. You're a fan. I've never seen

8:29

it. No, another film I didn't

8:31

see. I'm gonna guess you didn't see either

8:33

but apparently more people saw than Eternal Sunshine

8:35

in 04 Taxi. You

8:38

know that movie with Queen Letipa and Jimmy

8:40

Fallon? Oh yeah, Queen Letipa and Jimmy Fallon.

8:42

Yeah, Jimmy Fallon's illustrious movie career. Yeah, did

8:44

you have to write a review of that

8:47

one? I think I probably did. Checking the

8:49

Larson on Film Archives as we speak. Okay.

8:51

I don't see anything but I believe Adam

8:53

launched my website in 05 so I'm gonna

8:55

have to do some deeper digging to get

8:57

back to you on that. Okay. The

9:00

movie did go on to receive two

9:02

Oscar nominations Kate Winslet for lead actress

9:04

and original screenplay. I didn't remember that

9:06

as I was watching it but it

9:08

occurred to me this had to have won

9:11

best screenplay right? It does

9:13

depart somewhat from Charlie Kaufman's typically

9:15

bleak worldview. The script is credited

9:17

not only to Kaufman but also

9:20

director Michelle Gondry and Pierre Bismuth.

9:22

They all three shared that Oscar

9:24

win. Eternal Sunshine made its

9:26

share of top ten listen 04 but

9:29

it might be worth pointing to the AV Club's

9:31

best of the decade list which they published in

9:33

late 2009 to see how

9:35

its reputation had grown at least among the 20s

9:38

slash 30 set in the five years

9:40

since its release and let's look at that great

9:42

AV Club crew at the time. The crew we

9:44

came up with, oh names like

9:46

the next picture shows Keith Phipps, Tasha

9:48

Robinson, Scott Tobias and others, Noel Murray,

9:51

Nathan Rabin. We're gonna hear a

9:53

little bit more about Nathan in a few

9:55

moments. They did have Eternal Sunshine in the

9:57

number one slot ahead of there will be

10:00

No country for old men. Spike Lee's

10:02

25th hour before sunset spirited away many

10:05

other films we adore. Also

10:08

something we mentioned last week, Josh, Film Spotting Madness

10:10

2019 when we did The

10:12

Best of the 2000s, it came in second

10:14

place. The only film to beat it

10:16

was There Will Be Blood. So that

10:19

means our audience loves this movie and

10:22

I suppose we better bring it for

10:24

this sacred cow conversation. Enough setup, let's

10:27

get to Jim Carrey's Joel and Kate Winslet's

10:29

Clementine. Okay.

10:59

Too many guys think of the concept

11:01

or I complete them or I'm gonna

11:04

make them alive. I'm just

11:06

a f***ed up girl who's looking for my own peace of

11:08

mind. Don't assign me yours.

11:10

I remember that speech really well. I'm

11:14

hesitant to invoke the term Manic Pixie Dream

11:16

Girl because its legacy is complex and we

11:18

really don't have the time to wrestle with

11:20

it here. Also, it's

11:22

2024. The world has moved on, hasn't it?

11:25

After all, the Phrases Originator, Nathan Rabin,

11:27

essentially proclaimed the death of the MPDG

11:29

ten years ago in a piece for

11:31

Salon. I'm sorry

11:33

for creating this unstoppable monster, Rabin wrote.

11:35

I would welcome its erasure from public

11:38

discourse. I'd applaud an end to

11:40

articles about its countless different permutations. Let's

11:43

all try to write better, more nuanced and

11:45

multi-dimensional female characters. Women

11:47

with rich inner lives and complicated emotions and

11:49

total autonomy who might strum ukuleles or dance

11:52

in the rain even when there are no

11:54

men around to marvel at their

11:56

free-spiritedness. But in the

11:58

meantime, Manic Pixies, it's time to go. to put you

12:00

to rest. My apologies, Nathan,

12:02

I hope you'll humor me as I reinsert

12:04

it briefly into the public discourse. There

12:07

are two components to Nathan's call, both

12:09

of which his piece explores. The

12:12

limitations of the term's functioning criticism, and

12:14

the limitations of the type of recurring character that

12:16

compelled its use in the first place. As

12:19

I rewatched Eternal Sunshine for the first time in

12:21

almost 15 years, minus a handy

12:23

timeline of the MPDG and pop culture, I

12:26

wondered, oh no. Is

12:29

Winslet's Clementine the manic pixie

12:31

patient zero? Not

12:33

Natalie Portman in Garden State, or

12:35

Elizabeth Towne's Kirsten Dunst, who appears

12:38

here as lacuna admin Mary. Let's

12:41

go through the rundown. Clementine

12:43

is undoubtedly a high-energy, free spirit.

12:46

You know me, I'm impulsive, she says. That's

12:48

what I love about you, says the mostly brooding

12:51

Joel, who struggles to find any sense of fulfillment

12:53

and meaning in life without her. And

12:55

to get literal for a second, her shifting

12:57

hair colors do kind of suggest an actual

12:59

pixie. But then something

13:01

interesting happens, as we heard in that clip.

13:04

Three years before Raven would coin the term, Clementine

13:07

herself categorically rejects any

13:09

claim to manic pixie dream girl

13:11

status, even using the word concept

13:14

in the process. It's

13:16

notable that even though the movie is mostly

13:18

constructed out of experiences that Joel and Clementine

13:20

shared, they are nonetheless his

13:22

memories filtered through his pain and

13:25

prejudices. And yet, the

13:27

portrait of Clementine that Joel's

13:29

unconscious reveals is truly multidimensional.

13:33

A woman with a rich inner life and

13:35

complicated emotions and total autonomy, who might strum

13:37

a ukulele or dance in the rain even

13:39

when there are no men around. She's

13:42

also not alone in this movie as a

13:44

multidimensional woman. Dunce Mary, albeit in

13:46

a smaller role, also displays

13:48

complicated emotions and autonomy. Josh,

13:51

I doubt either of us anticipated an

13:53

outdated or boorish depiction of women. But

13:55

I am curious to what extent, if

13:57

any, Eternal Sunshine's point of view, more

14:00

male imagination than male gaze was

14:03

a pleasant and rewarding surprise or

14:05

if you were more focused on all the other

14:07

brilliant ways the writing ingenious structure

14:09

and inspired combination of production

14:12

design lo-fi effects and editing

14:14

all miraculously held up well

14:18

first order of business I did find this in the

14:20

October 7 2004 Naperville

14:22

Sun headline taxi is

14:25

nothing to hail two out of

14:27

four stars let's just get this

14:29

conversation just read it so

14:31

we have that on the record well

14:34

done sir this is exactly where we should start

14:36

with this film I think it's

14:38

20 years on a one of the

14:40

most important questions to ask or or

14:42

maybe a permutation of it the manic

14:45

pixie thing did cross my mind of

14:47

course and I

14:49

will say you

14:51

know as you've already suggested it

14:53

is yes it can fit that

14:57

definition in many surface ways

15:00

but I think the writing allows

15:03

for more nuance than that and exactly

15:05

those things Nathan talked about you know

15:07

that that that he was

15:09

asking for in female characters I think it

15:11

meets that criteria and then you have Winslet's

15:14

performance I mean the the

15:16

physicality of the impulsiveness

15:19

and the individuality that she brings to that

15:21

so this is this is a woman who

15:24

walks through the world this way this is

15:26

not a caricature who is waiting for men

15:29

to notice her this is how she lives right

15:31

and another crucial moment is when

15:34

she defends herself against his

15:37

accusations of her he doesn't use these terms

15:39

of her of course but her manic pixie

15:41

dreaminess he she says I

15:43

don't do that I think he's talking about

15:45

her constantly talking but not communicating and

15:48

she immediately cuts shuts him down it says I

15:50

don't do that and there are a couple

15:52

of moments elsewhere where to your point

15:56

Winslet's Clementine pushes back against

15:58

Jules vision of her,

16:01

memory of her, depiction of her,

16:03

and asserts her own individuality. This

16:08

was a movie that was catnip for me

16:11

in 2004, and it is still

16:13

catnip for me many

16:15

years later. But I will

16:17

say, and this is why I'm glad you started here, there

16:20

was a little voice in the back of my

16:22

head that was

16:24

starting to ask a few things. So

16:30

I want to ask you a question that's a

16:32

variation on the one you posed to me. This

16:35

has to do with

16:37

Clementine's decision to

16:40

erase Joel. And

16:42

my question while watching this

16:44

plot unfold is by

16:47

still pursuing her, even in his

16:49

own subconscious, is

16:51

Joel not honoring that

16:53

agency she exhibited? If

16:56

she wanted to end this relationship

16:58

for justifiable reasons, would

17:01

this have been a better movie if

17:03

that had been respected a bit

17:05

more? Now maybe the way she carried

17:07

out those reasons, choosing this

17:10

method of erasure, you might have

17:12

take issue with, rather than

17:14

having an adult conversation with him about why this

17:16

really, you know, I mean you might question that.

17:19

But the fact that we're watching this

17:21

person pursue her

17:23

and in effect deny a

17:25

decision she made, I

17:29

did wonder about that. I saw it

17:31

previously as romantic. I'll lay

17:33

my cards on the table. I largely still do.

17:37

You know, this chance to try again,

17:39

if that's what she

17:41

wants though. And so I just think

17:43

it's a related question to yours that is worth

17:45

asking, you know,

17:48

looking at it now two decades on, I

17:50

don't know if I'd say I'm looking at it

17:52

from that different of a perspective, but just having

17:54

these sorts of things more at the forefront of

17:56

my mind. Is there any

17:59

validity to that? concern here? I don't

18:01

think so. I'm going to try to

18:03

unpack that Josh and I think it's hard because this

18:06

is ultimately one of the strengths of the

18:08

movie which is that it's

18:11

not a simple film and there are

18:13

times where you have to kind of

18:15

get your bearings and understand where you

18:17

are in time and whether or not

18:19

what actually is happening on screen is

18:21

something that is quote unquote happening in

18:23

reality or did happen in reality or

18:25

is now some new version of

18:27

reality and it's an alternate imagining

18:30

of it. That all said,

18:33

I think it always comes back to the

18:36

fact, well, two things. One, I really love

18:38

the human messiness of this film and I'll get into

18:41

a little bit more what I mean by that, but

18:44

these are all really flawed

18:46

characters and part of what

18:48

he's doing is undeniably just

18:51

being very vindictive the way we all

18:53

are when someone not only

18:55

breaks up with you, someone doesn't want to

18:57

have or give you the time of day,

19:00

but in this case to take that step,

19:03

what a rejection, a

19:05

rejection that you can only really

19:08

think about how it would make you feel

19:10

in the construct of a

19:12

movie like this, right? This is the

19:14

whole conceit of the film. Now we live

19:16

in a world where someone can choose

19:19

to cut you out and they might do it. I think

19:22

she actually does it. I think the movie does within

19:24

the text suggests this, that she even

19:26

does it. She says, well, you know

19:28

me, I'm impulsive. She says I'm impulsive

19:31

and also I think she's being vindictive.

19:33

Their last moment together is one where

19:35

she says something pretty hurtful to him and he

19:37

comes back with something even worse

19:39

over the top and that's where

19:41

their relationship ends. So for her to say, I don't

19:43

want anything more to do with him is

19:46

her also acting out of pain.

19:48

They're all acting out of pain

19:50

and I don't deny them either

19:54

of them for being not mature

19:56

enough or handling this in a rational way, but then

19:59

it also comes back. to that construct,

20:01

Josh. And there's nothing

20:03

really of hers to honor because

20:05

everything that we're seeing happen

20:08

truly is all within his unconscious

20:10

mind. And, and

20:12

it's being forced by the fact that

20:15

they're going in and trying to

20:18

eradicate these memories. It

20:20

almost becomes, I didn't think of this until I watched it

20:23

this time, it almost becomes a little bit of

20:25

an action movie, you know, where they're, the

20:28

couple is on the run from the bad

20:30

guys trying to zap them and they're trying

20:32

to find the place that they can hide

20:35

out. So if it wasn't for the

20:37

memories being eradicated

20:40

and him putting up the normal defense

20:42

that we would all do in that

20:44

scenario, he's being forced to confront all

20:47

of these moments that they had together.

20:49

And what ends up playing out the

20:51

way for me that they end up,

20:53

they end up teaming up and,

20:56

and the way that she does help him

20:58

there, I think is, I think it was really

21:01

touching, but I didn't see it that way at

21:03

all where it's like, well, of course he is

21:05

a man wants her to help him and he

21:08

needs her to, to sacrifice on his

21:10

behalf. It doesn't feel that way for me

21:12

because all of those moments are still rooted

21:14

in actual things,

21:16

actual occurrences, actual moments that,

21:19

that they shared together. So

21:22

it's hard to say she should have more agency

21:24

on one hand when she

21:27

is a construct in his mind, but on

21:29

the other hand, she does exhibit some agency

21:31

because those actions are

21:33

all rooted in actual

21:35

moments between them. Yeah. And

21:38

that's largely how I read it too. It was like I said,

21:40

it was that one nagging thought in the back of my mind.

21:42

And it was just the question. And now,

21:44

because the way you describe it well, as we're

21:47

in, these are like

21:49

colliding consciousnesses that we're trying to

21:51

keep track of. Is there a

21:53

moment where Joel, the conscious Joel,

21:56

understands what's going on and

21:59

still decides to, pursue the relationship.

22:02

Now I'm turned around and I don't know

22:04

that there is. There may not be. Well,

22:06

just real quick though, Josh, even when you

22:08

say pursue the relationship though, I don't even

22:10

necessarily see it that way so much as

22:12

just trying to hang onto their memories together

22:14

rather than having them be destroyed. That's

22:17

a decision. Sure. It's

22:20

more survival than trying to promulgate

22:23

the relationship. It is. It

22:25

is. The decision is more

22:28

towards the final scenes when

22:30

she is clearly coming around to the idea

22:32

of giving it another try. It's

22:35

definitely played in stage as if she's totally on

22:38

board with it anyway, but I guess part of

22:40

me was just thinking like, okay,

22:42

but you're on board with it because your choice to

22:45

have it erased was negated outside

22:48

of your own will. But I just

22:50

don't see it that way at all

22:52

though because what's happening at the end

22:54

is actually happening in a reality

22:57

and not within the unconscious mind.

22:59

Right. Nothing that happens- But she wouldn't

23:02

be in that reality, right, except for his actions. No.

23:04

She would be living continually in the reality where

23:06

she didn't remember him. They're

23:09

both living in a reality where they don't remember

23:11

each other at the end of the film. They're

23:15

both meeting up, you know, the- That's

23:17

entirely the first time, right. That entire

23:19

pre-title sequence is what we pick up

23:21

on there at the end and nothing

23:23

that's happened in between as I read

23:25

the film is a reality.

23:28

She hasn't participated actually in any

23:30

of that that we're seeing during

23:32

his sleep. Right. Right.

23:35

Yeah. So we're parsing complications

23:37

here. And like I said, I

23:39

largely came down the same place you

23:41

did, but it was something that I asked about. But

23:44

just to go back and to focus on what's

23:47

so wonderful about this film rather

23:49

than even the nitpick is, you know,

23:51

when this came out, here

23:53

I have something that's like a

23:55

term we've started using more lately. I think soft

23:57

sci-fi, which I've always had a fondness for without

24:00

maybe even really knowing that's what it was. I

24:02

just always liked how that sort of film

24:04

allows for, to me at

24:07

least, an unpretentious existentialism.

24:09

It allows us to kind of marinate

24:11

in these big ideas

24:14

without it feeling like, I don't

24:17

know, we're being too lectured or boring. And

24:20

the practical special effects. We could just

24:22

go on and on about these from

24:25

it raining indoors when he remembers a

24:27

childhood day from the covers of

24:29

the book suddenly going blank in the

24:31

bookstore when she disappears. I noticed that

24:33

this time. So many touches like that.

24:36

I've long been a sucker for a comedian who

24:38

goes dramatic and it works and will, I'm

24:41

sure, get to Carrie's performance later. Kate

24:44

Winslet, I'm just going to say Kate Winslet, total

24:46

sucker for Kate Winslet circa 2004. There's

24:50

a Beck song in here, Adam. I might have

24:52

been driving, I might have been driving that very

24:54

same gold Corolla in 2004. I

24:57

know I had one, we kind of shared it

24:59

with my sister at the time. I don't know

25:01

whose possession it was, but definitely had one around

25:03

2004. I was going

25:05

to insult Joel by bringing up that Corolla later.

25:08

Now I have to watch what I say. Yeah,

25:10

come on, man. Don't insult the Corolla. It was

25:13

a sturdy car. Oh, yeah. It was a

25:15

dirty car. For many years. And

25:17

I got to say now, you know, this

25:20

thing hits so much harder 20 years

25:23

into marriage as opposed to

25:25

nine. And it's the very idea

25:28

that, and I say that to

25:31

point out that it hit really hard after

25:33

nine years of marriage. And it's the

25:35

very idea which is, you know, I think

25:37

at the very top of the show, we said something

25:40

about it being romantic, but at

25:43

the same time, you know,

25:45

this isn't clearly a romance. It's

25:47

heartbreaking. It's a heartbreaking romance. And I

25:49

think it's because it captures this idea

25:51

of knowing that you almost lost something

25:54

that that's going to make you fight, you know, so

25:56

much harder for it a second time and

25:58

treasure it that second time. And I

26:00

don't know any movie,

26:02

soft sci-fi or

26:05

straight romance, that gets that

26:07

so powerfully for me than

26:09

Eternal Sunshine. Yeah, I

26:11

think it's the model for all

26:13

of the things that you just

26:15

expressed, including especially that approach with

26:17

the sci-fi or the practical effects

26:20

where we just have to believe this

26:22

reality. We get just enough technology, even

26:24

if we don't totally buy it, we

26:26

get just enough technology to understand what

26:29

they're doing, to get a little bit

26:31

of sense of the rules of the

26:33

game, and we don't devolve too

26:35

much more into that. We get exactly what we

26:37

need to hang on to these character

26:39

and narrative threads. Absolutely. I do want to

26:41

talk a little bit, you were talking about

26:43

the romance and where the movie leaves us,

26:45

and I want to dive in just a

26:47

little bit more on the

26:49

ending because, and this came out 20 years ago,

26:52

we're going to get into spoiler talk here. I

26:54

hope you all have seen Eternal Sunshine. If you

26:56

haven't, this is the point where

26:58

you should depart, go watch

27:00

it, and come back to the conversation. One

27:03

of the things, whenever we do these sacred cows

27:05

or these anniversaries, and it's been a while since we've seen

27:07

the movies, we think about what

27:10

we didn't see coming or what some of

27:12

the surprises were. I already talked about being

27:14

a little bit surprised by the characterization of

27:16

both Winslet's character

27:19

Clementine and Mary, but

27:21

I did, Josh, completely

27:23

forget that the

27:25

movie gives us anything more at the

27:27

end beyond Joel

27:30

and Clementine meeting at Montauk. You

27:32

know how when you're watching a movie you've already seen

27:34

and you like it and you

27:36

know you like it and you're completely on board

27:38

with it and you're anticipating where you

27:40

know, you think you know where to

27:42

end. You're anticipating that ending and

27:45

I was already hanging on to, I was

27:47

already feeling all warm inside at

27:49

the thought of this couple giving it

27:51

another go. Even if they're not

27:54

aware that it's another go and even if

27:56

I'm not at all convinced that they should

27:58

be giving it another go. I

28:00

was sure it was building to this

28:03

realistically romantic the most realistically

28:06

romantic ending that this film

28:08

could wear. Imaginary

28:10

clementine kinda beat the system when

28:12

she plants it really joel of

28:14

course doing this she's

28:16

doing it on his behalf because it's his mind

28:19

but she plants montauk in his head so that

28:21

when he gets up that day and he's on

28:23

the train going to work and he hears montauk

28:25

it clicks and he goes back to the beach

28:27

and they meet. And the universe has somehow decided

28:30

that joel and clementine despite the

28:32

pain they previously caused each other there

28:35

there essentially destined to meet and

28:37

try again. Credits

28:40

and on that ambiguous but

28:42

hopeful note not not

28:44

a safe bet that they're definitely going to get

28:46

back together certainly not a safe bet that it's

28:48

going to work but we have a little bit

28:50

of a sense of hope really just that they're

28:53

going to try become sort of like the myth

28:55

of sisyphus that's how i see it right where.

28:57

We as humans devote all this

29:00

energy and time to pushing the boulder up

29:02

the hill it causes us tremendous

29:04

pain and when the boulder rolls down to

29:06

the bottom we start pushing it

29:08

back up again. And to borrow joel's phrase when

29:10

clementine says she's almost gone from his memory and

29:12

they're about out of time one of my favorite

29:14

moments in the film what

29:16

does he say all you can do is try

29:18

to enjoy the moment let's just try to enjoy

29:20

it that's all we really can do as

29:23

as humans but that's not where it

29:26

ends. Because

29:28

joel and clementine actually have

29:30

to confront their past together

29:32

the movie makes them confront

29:34

the pain they've caused each

29:36

other these new now brainwashed.

29:39

People have caused each other and

29:42

and they're hearing their own voices say these

29:44

things and i'm sure they do even if

29:47

they're contradicting what. They

29:49

themselves are saying in that moment they

29:51

know there has to be some validity

29:53

to it this isn't this isn't made

29:55

up that's really them speaking so there's

29:57

some truth to it and they confront.

30:00

who they were to each other and how they felt

30:03

and then still decide

30:06

to try again. So it gives us

30:08

an ending that's actually more

30:11

painfully honest and as

30:13

a result of being more painfully honest it's

30:16

more romantic for it I think. Absolutely

30:19

and I think that's the reality I

30:21

was referring to like that that's where

30:24

Clementine does have that moment. She is

30:26

forced to make that decision there when

30:30

she'd already made it essentially and

30:32

it was I guess that's what I was getting at. It was

30:34

Joel's action that made her have to read aside but

30:37

just setting that aside I agree with you

30:39

it's brilliant to end this way and

30:42

it feels just

30:44

right in the sense it's true to everything

30:46

I came before. I think a more purely

30:49

romantic ending would have felt false given all

30:51

the messiness as you said we've experienced all

30:54

the mistakes these people have made and

30:57

it's uneasy. I think it's optimistic

30:59

I think you could still describe it as optimistic

31:02

and the framing when I did originally write

31:04

about it the first time seeing it the

31:06

framing I gave is like probably

31:08

a lot of people are gonna go see this on a first date and

31:12

it might be a disastrous choice because

31:15

you'll you'll not want to have anything to

31:17

do with romance after seeing this perhaps

31:19

I think this is what we're getting at because

31:21

it depicts it as messy and trying even if

31:23

you want to try even if you want to

31:25

do it and so this

31:27

is the sort you know it's not gonna it's not

31:29

gonna make a couple fall in love but it might

31:32

make you fight harder for the love that you have and

31:35

there's romance there's a sense of romance yeah

31:37

that as well it's very different than I

31:39

think we often think of

31:42

as movie romance movie romance doesn't come that

31:44

messy and that complicated and that realistic and

31:47

that this does is

31:49

why it's so wrenching but here's the bit

31:51

I forgot I did remember that they ended

31:53

up you know hearing each other's tapes and

31:55

and oh my gosh how about Carrie's face

31:57

when she walks into his apartment and catches

31:59

him listening and he turns

32:01

around and it may be his best bit of

32:04

acting in the entire film that just like he

32:06

does not know where to go from here. It

32:08

is all come crashing down on him. But

32:12

after that, which I did remember, I

32:14

had forgotten the actual exact last images

32:16

are the two of them and it's

32:18

not quite clear if this is later

32:20

in their relationship or it's a flashback

32:22

to a previous meeting or if it's

32:24

a flashback to Joel's consciousness but

32:28

it's them on the beach at Montauk in the

32:30

snow kind of falling down together and we get

32:33

it there's a bunch of beautiful jump

32:35

cuts the jump cuts throughout this movie

32:37

are so ingeniously used so that it

32:39

kind of replays it skips like a

32:41

memory sometimes does and so

32:43

that's interesting to me too that they

32:45

make that choice to not leave them

32:48

in the hall where they're uneasily sort

32:50

of agreeing to try again

32:52

but they're not hugging they're each on they're

32:54

each on another side of the hallway they

32:56

don't even like there's no physical like

32:58

ceiling of the deal there's just kind of

33:00

like a resignation

33:03

that they are but

33:05

then we do get those brief images

33:08

of them together where there is physical

33:10

contact back on the beach and

33:12

I don't think it matters

33:14

exactly when it was but it does give

33:17

a little bit more of an optimism you

33:19

know an optimism lift out

33:21

of the theater okay

33:27

I'm not a concept dog a girl

33:29

who's looking for my own piece of mind I'm

33:31

not perfect I can't see anything that

33:33

I don't like about you but you know

33:36

I can't but you will you will

33:38

think of things and I'll get bored

33:40

with you and feel trapped because that's

33:42

what happens with me okay

33:51

okay To

34:18

touch on a few things that we've

34:20

already mentioned, the car. I

34:23

had never paid attention to that car before. I even

34:25

went down the rabbit hole of finding a Reddit thread

34:28

that says they're pretty sure it's a 94.

34:31

So by the time this movie

34:33

is made, Joel's driving not just

34:35

a sturdy Toyota Corolla, but one that's 10

34:38

years old. Adam, I

34:40

think I can corroborate that. 94 sounds just about

34:42

right. It's a little

34:44

worn down. It's no longer

34:46

in its prime. And the way that car keeps

34:49

getting referenced and it becomes the

34:52

symbol of Joel and Joel's broken

34:54

psyche, the more the car gets

34:56

broken, I think is really, really

34:59

clever. You use that

35:01

word sturdy. I had in my notes, functional.

35:03

Maybe the most functional of just

35:05

functional sedans. And you said it

35:07

was gold. You're probably right. I

35:10

saw it more as beige. Just a

35:12

tan, just a totally, you know, lacking

35:14

in color. I feel like the thing of it

35:16

is gold, Adam. We were trying to, you know, do what we could if

35:18

you're driving one of those. You know, it feels better if you say it's

35:20

gold. Either way,

35:22

it's pretty blah, like Joel's

35:25

personality. And there's something even

35:27

fitting about him

35:29

not knowing how it got wrecked, thinking

35:32

it's the people parked next to him.

35:34

And he leaves that totally passive aggressive

35:36

and ultimately meaningless note. Thank

35:39

you author Windshield. And what

35:41

I love about it though, Josh, is in the end, he

35:43

actually kind of is thankful for it.

35:46

He doesn't know it, but he's thankful

35:48

for it because it actually means that

35:50

he had that shared experience with her,

35:52

that it's part of their relationship. So

35:55

it kind of has a double meaning

35:57

there, or I suppose a contraption. Tradictory

36:00

meeting there but that messiness I want to go

36:02

back to and say that Somebody

36:04

and it may not have even been

36:06

some hack in a suit Surely

36:09

suggested at some point during this film's

36:12

making Hey, this

36:14

is already too weird We're

36:17

already a little bit unsure of

36:19

what's happening Why over complicate

36:21

things with all these other characters

36:24

and relationships? Let's just strip

36:26

it down to Joel and Clementine But

36:29

all of that drama and complication all

36:32

of those messy entanglements Really

36:35

is precisely the point this

36:37

movie is making about love

36:39

and relationships Stan Ruffalo's character

36:41

loving Mary while Mary loves

36:43

dr. Mir Swack who she's

36:45

already loved even then

36:47

Mir Swack's wife Gets her

36:49

moment right now crazy Elijah would

36:52

as Patrick who we do see

36:54

as a little bit crazy and

36:57

we don't like him because he's He's

36:59

there to take Clementine from Joel maybe and

37:02

we certainly don't approve of his tactics and

37:04

yet You have

37:07

to watch that and watch Patrick's behavior

37:09

and think to yourself at least I'll admit

37:11

if we were as in love With

37:14

someone as he is with Clementine and

37:16

knew there was basically a cheat code

37:19

to win her heart How

37:21

many of us would really say nope not gonna use

37:23

it not gonna touch it not gonna open up that

37:25

book not gonna try that He

37:27

tries it. I I can empathize with him.

37:29

I can understand it all all

37:32

of that connects so Brilliantly

37:34

and the way he's unconscious in the room

37:36

and yet all that drama that's occurring around

37:38

him Expands the way

37:41

in sync with the way his memory

37:43

and imagination are expanding it It's

37:45

just a real feat that they pull off here

37:48

and is there any anything more Humiliating

37:50

for him then when when Dunston

37:53

Rufalo are dancing in their underwear

37:55

over his body I

37:58

mean all the little characters bits

38:00

that those supporting figures allow for.

38:02

I can't imagine this movie without

38:05

it. I think I was more charitable

38:07

towards Elijah Woods Patrick the first time

38:10

I saw it. This time I was

38:12

like, get this guy away from society.

38:14

Did you get love? Yeah. Yeah,

38:17

I can feel that too. It's going to come

38:19

from this person. I could relate and still want

38:21

him locked up, Josh. Come on. He needs some

38:23

rehabilitation. And you mentioned her, Dr.

38:25

Murswack's wife. I got to say Deirdre

38:28

O'Connell. Talk about killing your one scene.

38:32

She should be in the one scene Hall of Fame when

38:34

she shows up at the apartment

38:36

and, oh, wow, is that good. Yeah,

38:39

they're all wonderful. I completely agree. But

38:42

let's turn to the lead performance and talk a

38:44

little bit more about Carrie.

38:47

This worked so well for me both

38:50

times. I was a huge fan when

38:52

I first saw this. And not that

38:54

Carrie was one of those broad comedians

38:57

that I especially loved. If

38:59

you compare this to something like, and

39:01

I think we should, I think it's

39:04

very comparable to Adam Sandler in Punch

39:06

Drunk Love, the shift

39:08

there. Sandler was a comedian

39:10

I had much more fondness for than Carrie.

39:13

So I was voting for, really rooting for

39:15

him in Punch Drunk Love. Carrie, I had

39:17

kind of been like, I thought some of

39:19

his serious attempts didn't quite work up to

39:21

that point. So this was really a revelation

39:24

for me. He's just reversing every performative

39:27

instinct that he has. It's almost like

39:30

every moment has a choice Carrie could

39:32

make that wouldn't be the wrong one

39:34

based on how he usually, and I'm

39:36

not saying he was never funny, but

39:38

how he usually carried himself on screen

39:40

and he chooses the right way. Yet

39:43

it does allow him, it's not a

39:45

denial of Jim Carrey as a comedian. It

39:47

allows him, particularly as a physical comedian later

39:50

in the film, to lean into certain moments

39:52

that are just enough and to capture that

39:54

talent. And I think this is where it's

39:56

similar to how Paul Thomas Anderson used Sandler too,

39:58

because both he and his family are in a different position. Here and

40:00

Gondry, both there and what Gondry

40:03

is doing here, they're interpreting

40:06

and redirecting their stars' comedic qualities.

40:08

So it's not like sublimating them

40:10

into seriousness. It's not tamping them

40:12

down. It's just a

40:14

little redirection and an

40:17

interpretation of what's funny about

40:19

them within this context that's

40:21

been created. And I

40:24

don't know if Carrie's been better, actually. I

40:27

can die right now, Gondry. Just...

40:38

I've never felt that before. I'm

40:44

just exactly... for

40:49

me. I'm

40:56

with you completely on Carrie. I don't know that

40:59

I can articulate it any better than you did,

41:01

except to say that this was also a bit

41:03

of a surprise for me. I remember always liking

41:05

the performance, but I think I had in the

41:07

back of my head a little bit that maybe

41:10

it was Jim Carrey acting

41:12

serious. It was Jim Carrey tamping

41:15

down all of his natural charisma

41:17

and removing that comedic charm, that

41:19

over-the-top comedic charm that he exudes,

41:21

really, with just every fiber of

41:23

his being, watching it this time,

41:25

I realized how much of a

41:27

performance it is, just how much

41:30

of a subtle performance it is.

41:32

And what I really appreciated, Josh,

41:34

is that you

41:36

can watch that first part, and just like

41:38

you think for a little while, maybe Clementine

41:41

is a little too much of a manic

41:43

pixie dream girl, and you think Carrie is a little

41:45

bit too much of the brooding

41:48

character and kind of boring character,

41:50

honestly. And you're wondering, why

41:52

would she even date this guy?

41:55

Why would someone with the

41:57

vivacity and energy she has?

42:00

Why would she ever be drawn to

42:02

him? And of course, I'll say that

42:04

acknowledging that I also very much get

42:06

that opposites attract is a very real

42:08

thing, but he's so down

42:10

and so dreary that you wonder what

42:12

their connection is. And what happens is

42:15

once you start to piece together what

42:17

the construct of the film is, you

42:19

realize that we're starting more at the

42:21

end post breakup, where he,

42:23

he is exceptionally dreary because he

42:26

didn't have that relationship. The more

42:28

we get into the film and

42:30

the more back in time we go

42:33

and see how their

42:35

relationship grew, see some

42:37

of those moments that could be

42:40

the cheesy romantic comedy moments, the

42:42

feeding each other cotton candy that doesn't happen

42:44

here, but the equivalent of it in this

42:47

film, the more, the more realistic version where

42:49

you see people falling in love, you really

42:51

do see that chemistry. You see what they

42:53

bring out in each other. You see how

42:55

comfortable they are with each other. And you

42:58

see just enough of

43:00

Carrie's personality to

43:02

believe that she would want

43:04

to spend time with them, that, that he

43:07

would be a fun hang. You're not getting

43:09

that sense really early in the film, but

43:11

the more we learn about them, the more

43:14

we see of them together, the more we

43:16

do get that part. And Carrie's charisma gets

43:18

to come out a little bit without it

43:20

ever feeling like a

43:23

Jim Carrey comedic performance in any way. I'm,

43:26

I'm a big fan of punch, drunk love. As

43:28

you know, I'm, I'm all in on, on PTA.

43:31

I, I rank it lower than you and

43:33

many others do in his filmography. And I

43:35

like Sandler and I liked that performance. I'll

43:38

say, I think this is an even better

43:41

performance than Sandler and I'm with you that

43:43

I'm not sure there's a better Jim Carrey

43:45

performance after rewatching this film. Yeah. I mean,

43:47

maybe another look at the Truman show just

43:50

to make sure, or perhaps there's one I'm

43:52

forgetting, but, um, yeah. And as far

43:54

as the relationship goes, I agree. I mean,

43:56

your reading is spot on why it seems

43:58

quote unquote generic. at first

44:01

because they're playing echoes of themselves,

44:03

essentially, right? But when we do

44:05

see those moments you're describing, it

44:07

makes sense. It's

44:09

almost like with her around in

44:11

their earlier moments together before the

44:13

friction starts, he

44:16

can breathe a little easier. It's like she

44:18

takes the pressure of society off of him.

44:21

And then for her, it's almost like

44:25

he's rooted in a way that her

44:27

flightiness, she can roost there safely. A

44:29

little stability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you

44:31

know, that's again, the opposite's a track

44:33

thing, but I think they – that

44:36

cliché, if you want to say it

44:38

that way, they fill in with real

44:41

humanity and individuality. So

44:43

those qualities exist in these total

44:47

individuals who are finding comfort in

44:49

different ways in each other. So

44:52

I think the relationship completely works. I

44:54

do want to mention the image

44:57

that we all associate with this film

44:59

because it's part of the cover, part

45:01

of the poster. I

45:03

had never spent any time really looking

45:05

at it and here watching the film

45:07

and trying to pay some close attention

45:09

to it. I was really struck by

45:11

how gorgeous that image is and how

45:14

weighty that image on the ice is.

45:16

First of all, just looking at it

45:18

as an image, it's compelling,

45:21

it's striking. But that

45:23

blank lake lit up

45:25

under the moon surrounded by

45:27

the stars and the night sky, the

45:29

darkness, it makes it seem

45:31

– and we've returned to that image a few times –

45:33

it makes it seem like, to me, I don't know if

45:35

this was deliberate or not, but it's almost like they could

45:37

be on the moon or on

45:40

some other celestial body. They

45:42

are completely within their own

45:44

universe. They're separate from time

45:46

and space. And I love that. It

45:49

also occurred to me that it's almost like – and I had

45:51

to Google this today to see if there were membranes

45:54

in the brain, as I suspected there were –

45:56

but it almost felt to me like a membrane.

45:58

They're on something. that I don't even

46:00

know how to classify. Some

46:03

part of the body, this surface,

46:05

this ethereal surface that they've

46:07

somehow become enmeshed in. And of course,

46:10

if I'm going to go with that reading, that makes sense

46:12

considering what's happening in the film too. But then he

46:15

jokes about it even, the ice looks completely

46:17

solid to us. There should be no concern

46:19

about falling through. He makes a

46:22

comment. She says, yeah, I don't think there

46:24

are any cracks. I didn't

46:26

hear anything. And then they

46:28

lay down and we see the

46:30

gigantic fracture. And it is that

46:32

little bit of foreshadowing.

46:35

We're going to get the fractures in

46:37

their relationship matching the fractures there

46:39

in the ice soon enough. And I

46:42

was always taken with that image when we did

46:44

see it. Show

46:58

me which constellations you have. I

47:01

don't know. I

47:03

don't know any. Show

47:07

me which ones you know. Okay.

47:16

There's all cities. Where?

47:20

Make that loop sort of

47:22

a swoop and a cross. As

47:25

you described, just visually, it's so entrancing, but

47:28

it carries all that thematic weight. I

47:30

agree with that. And I think the intimacy

47:32

that they share in that scene is why

47:35

it feels like such a violation when Patrick

47:37

shows up in that very same spot. Right.

47:39

I mean, like we, we just as viewers

47:41

feel like you should not be here at

47:44

all. And you're just waiting for her to

47:46

pick up on that. Some of

47:48

the other images here that are probably

47:50

worth pointing out, you know,

47:52

it's almost every image now that I think about it

47:54

and the cinematographer, we should say Ellen

47:57

Keras, who, who also shot interestingly to Spike

47:59

Lee film. Summer of Sam and Four Little

48:01

Girls. But every

48:03

shot seems to be from an interesting

48:05

angle. And the one I'm thinking of is when

48:08

he's holding the cassette tape in the car and then

48:10

throws it out the window, the camera

48:12

is sort of low, like almost on

48:15

the floor of the car looking up and so we

48:17

can see his hand there. And then there's just something

48:19

about the instability of that

48:21

angle that works for what's happening. The

48:24

lights going out. How about the lights

48:27

going out in the bookstore as he's

48:29

walking towards the camera and then he

48:31

just steps, no cut here, just steps

48:33

into the front hall of

48:35

his friend's house and that room behind

48:37

him goes dark. Brilliant.

48:40

And another shot, I'm sure I noticed

48:42

it the first time around, but I

48:44

forgot and it surprised me delightfully again.

48:47

Joel leans in from the

48:49

kitchen of his apartment to say something to

48:51

Clementine and the TV

48:54

in the shot in the room she's in

48:56

is blocking his lower half. But

48:58

we see his lower half on the screen as if

49:00

it's on television. And again,

49:02

to your point about the cracks in the ice,

49:05

it's not just a trick, but

49:08

it reminds us of the levels of

49:10

reality we're dealing with here and which

49:12

Joel is which. And it's just fun.

49:14

It's just a fun image to look

49:17

at as well. So there's so many

49:19

things like that going on in this movie just

49:22

stuffed. And this is where

49:25

I do have to emphasize Gondry's

49:27

contribution. He's a director that I've

49:29

probably stuck with longer than

49:31

most people. I've really liked even some

49:33

of his stuff from the last 10

49:35

years, though here's my confession in

49:38

just reading around at him preparing

49:40

for this conversation. Apparently he released

49:42

a movie last year, The Book

49:44

of Solutions. Looks like

49:46

it just came out in France. If I'd heard about

49:48

it, I'd forgotten about it. Here's

49:50

IMDB's description. How fitting is this? A

49:52

director trying to vanquish his demons who

49:54

are stifling his creativity. So I'm in.

49:57

How did we miss it? How did we miss it?

50:00

But yeah, all of that stuff

50:03

like Be Kind Rewind, which

50:06

I loved as well, all

50:08

of that sort of handcrafted

50:10

magic is... This

50:13

has got to be his best film, I think. He's

50:15

at the height of his powers, which are

50:17

particularly these sort of handcrafted powers here. Yeah,

50:20

it seems like such a perfect marriage of

50:22

writer and director here for sure. And I

50:24

know you mentioned them, but I just want

50:27

to underline that those were two scenes for

50:29

me as well that really stood out. That

50:31

moment where... I think he's talking to

50:33

the Jane Addams character and your

50:36

guy from You Hurt

50:38

My Feelings, David Cross, right? Oh my

50:40

gosh. Where they're another messy couple in

50:42

this film. And he's talking

50:45

about how she didn't even

50:47

recognize him, I think, at the bookstore

50:49

in this scene. He doesn't understand why

50:51

she is ignoring him and continuing to

50:53

then, of course, reject him. Doesn't

50:56

he go into the... Don't we see him go into the

50:58

jewelry store where he buys the gift and then, yeah, he

51:01

walks, he turns and walks back out

51:03

of the reality of the bookstore into the

51:06

reality of the house where

51:08

he's talking to them. That one really struck me. And the

51:10

books... I don't know if back in 2004 I

51:12

caught that or not. The books

51:15

near the end when they're talking in the

51:17

bookstore, it's the scene we heard a clip

51:20

from, I believe. And

51:23

the pages all around them as

51:25

they walk nearer to them and walk

51:27

past them, they start to go blank.

51:29

These pages, this story, their story is

51:32

now going to be unwritten. It's being

51:34

undone. Well, these pages are...

51:36

These stories are also being unwritten

51:38

in that moment. And that's such

51:40

a beautiful touch and how they

51:42

pull that off in real time

51:44

with those practical effects is

51:46

really, really stunning. But just in general, the

51:48

camera work here and the approach to the

51:51

editing almost always

51:53

seems like a handheld camera, those

51:56

interesting angles, the pace of the

51:58

editing, the constant about

52:00

too just the blocking where the camera

52:02

seems to be always following Clementine.

52:05

She's always in motion. It

52:08

reflects this ever shifting point of

52:10

view and that uncertain grasp on

52:13

reality. The structure folds

52:15

in on itself the way

52:17

dreams do when they collide with

52:19

memory. That's the wonder of

52:21

this film. And I was thinking, I was

52:23

thinking even about, I don't know, maybe I'm

52:25

not reading enough into it or

52:27

misreading it, or maybe I

52:30

shouldn't be reading it at all. But it

52:32

feels like nothing happens by accident in these

52:34

films. And how about the moment where the

52:37

Jane Addams character, I think it's Carrie, is

52:39

it Robin Carrie? She gets mad at him

52:41

because he's making a bird

52:43

house. Like in the middle of the day

52:45

in one of their rooms, he's making a

52:47

bird house. He's hammering wood. I don't know

52:49

if he's making it. But I loved it,

52:51

Josh, because it just added to that, that

52:54

manic energy, and that constant movement

52:56

and the sense that everything

52:59

is under construction. Everything

53:01

in this world is under construction, being

53:03

slapped together with with hammers and nails

53:05

and maybe a few wires here, there,

53:08

right. But then on top of all

53:10

that visual inventiveness, and we

53:12

did get into this a little bit earlier, but on top

53:14

of all that, invented this

53:16

to have the genuine,

53:19

but totally unsentimental heart that this

53:21

movie has. That's

53:23

what makes it clearly one of

53:25

the best films of the last 25 years, certainly one of

53:28

the best films of its year. And it's

53:31

decade I was even thinking about how often

53:34

sleepiness and tiredness comes

53:36

up in this movie. There's this constant

53:38

notion that everyone is kind of sleep

53:40

walking through life, the couples that they

53:42

reference, they just sit across from each

53:44

other and go through the motions. Are

53:47

we like those bored couples, you feel sorry for

53:49

in restaurants is the line. Everyone,

53:52

it ties back to the dream and

53:54

his unconscious mind. But it's

53:56

as if these two people are trying so desperately

53:58

to connect with each other. and

54:00

wake themselves up from the

54:02

sleepwalking that they're existing in

54:05

every day. Signs

54:07

of Sleep, another Michelle Gantry movie. Not

54:09

one of my favorite ones, but yeah, I

54:12

have to share my favorite David Cross moment

54:15

because he's another classic

54:17

David Cross jerk. Anybody want

54:19

to get high? That's

54:22

good. That's good. But how about when he's sitting

54:24

in his house and he yells

54:26

at the dog to get off his lap,

54:29

that the dog has just chosen to

54:31

get off his lap. The dog is like, I

54:33

don't want to be by you and gets down

54:35

and his reaction is like, screw you,

54:37

get off my lap. He's got to reject

54:39

me. He's like, I'm going to reject you,

54:42

dog. I mean, it's just like totally captures

54:44

who this guy is in one second. The

54:47

only other thing I'd add about the editing is

54:49

just to expand a little bit on what I

54:51

said about the jump cuts in that final scene,

54:53

why I love them so much is

54:55

they're used in the opening when

54:58

they meet on the beach and the train ride

55:00

and all that. And I think

55:02

it's a very clever choice because it's not

55:05

too noticeable, but it's more than a

55:07

standardly edited scene like that. It

55:09

also suggests how memory works or to your point

55:11

dreams or both. Even

55:14

though we're watching what are ostensibly at this point

55:16

straight scenes, we don't know exactly

55:18

what's happening here. It hasn't

55:21

gone as active as

55:23

it will get, but that use of

55:25

jump cuts makes it feel that way.

55:29

And the editor here, Valdez, Oscar's daughter,

55:32

it's just the very different

55:34

modes of editing, yet it's all cohesive

55:37

for the film as a whole and always to a

55:39

purpose, I think is pretty brilliant. And

55:42

we have to, because people will complain if we

55:44

don't mention it, but we have to at least

55:46

note that the John Bryant score. I mean, talk

55:49

about this era of movies and

55:51

makes you hear some of his

55:53

work and you're instantly put back

55:56

to this era of movies, but

55:58

it's very 90s in a wonderful way. It's

56:00

sort of twinkling. There may be a tuba.

56:02

I hope there's a tuba. I'm always a

56:04

fan of a tuba in a movie score

56:07

But yeah, it's it's just enough. It's you

56:09

know, this is why this rises to the

56:11

top You can't name a filmmaking

56:14

element that is not

56:16

crucial Creative

56:18

and just brilliantly done in eternal

56:21

sunshine John Brian another

56:23

connection back to punch trunk love as well. Right?

56:25

There you go Eternal sunshine

56:27

is currently streaming on peacock and is available

56:29

VOD if you see it and agree or

56:32

disagree with our thoughts We would love to

56:34

hear from you feedback at film spotting net

56:37

I know that we have alluded to this

56:39

a few times and we still have not

56:41

fully settled on What

56:44

the pantheon currently is what the induction

56:46

process is What we do know is

56:48

that we're having conversations like this because

56:50

we think it's really important that if

56:53

we're going to put a film into

56:55

that that hallowed

56:57

ground That it should

56:59

be a film that we've reckoned

57:01

with on the show that we've had a conversation

57:03

about that we can point people to And say

57:06

it's in the pantheon and here's why it's not

57:08

just based on a review You

57:10

wrote 20 years ago or my recollection of

57:12

seeing it 20 years ago and

57:14

loving it We are on the record with

57:16

our thoughts That

57:19

all said we should probably say that eternal

57:21

sunshine is is officially officially in the pantheon

57:23

I don't think it's gonna get kicked out.

57:25

We're not we're not kicking it out at

57:27

this point again Do you have any feedback

57:29

on the film your favorite scenes your favorite

57:31

lines moments or cuts? Let us

57:33

know feedback at film spotting net coming

57:36

up William Weiler's Doddsworth plus 50s

57:39

madness sweet 16 matchups First

57:41

though here are a couple of very easy ways

57:43

you can help the show whether you're a longtime

57:46

listener Just finding us would you take a minute

57:48

and give us a rating or a review on

57:50

Apple podcasts or Spotify? Each new

57:52

rating and review helps an independently produced

57:54

show like ours reach new listeners There's

57:57

another way you can support us as well. You can

57:59

join the the Film Spotting

58:01

Family at filmspottingfamily.com. We

58:03

want to welcome a new family

58:05

member. That's Eric Quigley from Rockford,

58:07

Michigan. Eric wrote this, I'm

58:10

old school. I've been listening since Circa

58:12

Cinecast episode 15 or so. That

58:15

was way too long ago to remember what

58:17

got me hooked, but I've never been able

58:19

to shake my cinecrack habit as it was

58:21

called back then. A favorite reviewer, top

58:23

five, this is one of the things we ask of our

58:25

new family members. Eric said, I wouldn't

58:28

say all time, but I loved the horror movie

58:30

draft you did a couple of months ago. Yeah,

58:32

I love that. Bonus content. Bonus content, a recent

58:34

one. How about a review we

58:36

got wrong? All right, here's Eric's opinion on

58:38

this one. I think you both came down

58:41

positive on Barbie and Josh put it on

58:43

his year end list. That movie was

58:45

just plain bad. Wow. A

58:47

member of the Academy writing in. Apparently.

58:51

Last movie you saw in the theater we

58:53

asked Eric, Hunger Games, Ballad of Songbirds and

58:55

whatever. It wasn't that good, but

58:57

my daughter enjoyed it. And

58:59

I enjoyed that. Well, you can't go wrong there,

59:01

Eric. How about a favorite movie that he revisited

59:04

recently? Jordan Peels Us. Absolutely

59:06

loved it on revisit. Not a

59:08

perfect film by any means, but

59:10

viscerally terrifying and intellectually compelling. As

59:13

for the movie that caused Eric to become

59:16

a cinephile, he says kind of an unoriginal

59:18

answer, but probably Reservoir Dogs. Does he have a

59:20

favorite book about movies or movie making? Is

59:22

it the point of movies that you don't have to read books?

59:26

Fair enough, Eric. Okay, Eric, thank you for

59:28

that. Thank you for your honesty and welcome

59:30

to the family and for staying with us

59:32

all these years. In addition to keeping us

59:35

doing what we're doing, your support comes with

59:37

perks. You get to listen early and ad

59:39

free. You do get that Sam Van Halgren

59:42

weekly newsletter. You get monthly bonus shows. Excited

59:44

about the fact, as we're taping this, we're

59:47

about 24 hours away exactly from

59:49

recording our next trivia

59:52

spotting. We're gonna record the audio. We're

59:54

gonna have two rounds of trivia. We've

59:57

got some captains lined up and we've got about

59:59

a. 100 listeners, Josh, actually 100 family

1:00:02

members who have all signed up to play

1:00:04

Trivia Spotting. We're going to take that audio,

1:00:06

put it out in the feed for all

1:00:08

family members. I'd say that

1:00:10

I've been trying to do

1:00:13

some research and improve my

1:00:15

trivia skills, but I would be lying. Yeah, I

1:00:17

mean, why not take our trivia in aptitude and

1:00:19

make it more public? I think that was the

1:00:21

logic here. That's right. You

1:00:23

also get complete archive access. That's

1:00:26

all at filmspottingfamily.com. That's

1:00:37

from the trailer for the new documentary,

1:00:40

Frida, about the artist Frank Akalo, the

1:00:42

feature directing debut from Carla Gutierrez. It

1:00:44

came to Prime Video earlier

1:00:46

this week as we're taping this, it's not out

1:00:49

and I haven't had a chance to see it. But

1:00:51

I am looking forward to catching up with it

1:00:53

this weekend. Josh, you have had a chance to

1:00:55

see Frida. Do you recommend it? Absolutely.

1:00:59

It's incredibly original. Now we've seen

1:01:01

something somewhat like this before.

1:01:03

I don't know, Loving Vincent, I'm not sure

1:01:05

if we talked about that on the show,

1:01:08

Adam, but the Van Gogh documentary that... I

1:01:10

think I recommended it. Yeah,

1:01:12

yeah. It involved animation as well

1:01:14

and made Van Gogh's paintings come

1:01:16

alive. So something

1:01:18

similar is being done here

1:01:21

in Frida where the backgrounds,

1:01:23

leaves have movement or insects

1:01:25

will flutter and

1:01:28

it's quite beautiful. It's very respectful of

1:01:30

the original work, but also beautiful

1:01:33

in its own way. And I

1:01:35

appreciated that. I also think what was

1:01:38

equally arresting about Frida

1:01:41

is that they use

1:01:43

her diary, her

1:01:46

letters and some essays she wrote.

1:01:50

Everything we hear is narration

1:01:52

of those words. So

1:01:54

you're getting, and it follows her from

1:01:56

childhood, you know, throughout her

1:01:58

life, But it's... All told arm

1:02:01

in around words in so there's a

1:02:03

bit of a lack of context. they

1:02:05

are. You get some of it, but

1:02:07

it it's knots. it makes it feel.

1:02:10

I guess I would say this. Biopics

1:02:13

whether they're fiction or

1:02:15

documentary. You you need

1:02:17

of restrictions on them or you're just gonna

1:02:19

get the generic birth to death. Checkmark:

1:02:22

Checkmark checkmark right and the restrictions

1:02:24

Gutierrez and her team use. These

1:02:26

restrictions create something unique, and what's

1:02:29

crucial to that is the narration

1:02:31

itself, which is done by Fernanda

1:02:33

at every adult rivero. There.

1:02:36

Is so much. Anger.

1:02:39

And. Passion and arrogance in this

1:02:41

narrations uses. She whispers at

1:02:43

moments, she sighs, spits out

1:02:45

swear words, and you get

1:02:47

an incredible sense of Frida

1:02:49

Kahlo beyond you know there.

1:02:51

There was that Julie Taymor

1:02:53

biopic with Salma Hayek as

1:02:56

as Carlo which I think

1:02:58

is good. I liked it,

1:03:00

but this I felt like

1:03:02

I had a more visceral

1:03:04

immediate and I have to

1:03:06

think authentic understanding of who

1:03:08

collar was. With this

1:03:10

narration so yeah, incorporating that with

1:03:12

the animation elements armed made for

1:03:14

some. Seemed pretty cool, pretty unique

1:03:16

and in in that case given

1:03:18

this is a feature debut as

1:03:20

well, I think you know, worthy

1:03:22

of Golden Brick consideration. Wonderful! We

1:03:24

will add it to our brick

1:03:26

page over it's own spotting.net You

1:03:28

can click on lists and find

1:03:30

that as well as many more

1:03:32

don't spotting lists. Frida is currently

1:03:34

streaming on Prime Video. will have

1:03:36

a review next week of Love

1:03:38

Lies, Bleeding. Which opens in wide release

1:03:41

this weekend. Kristen Stewart. I think we should

1:03:43

just end the description here. Kristen Stewart is

1:03:45

a woman who falls for a female body

1:03:47

passing through their community. i mean

1:03:49

and some of the movie just a pretty

1:03:52

much stuff is actually a i mean it

1:03:54

does get more complicated but i think this

1:03:56

i detest the fuck let's say a bit

1:03:58

more the ferris yeah in multi Fascinated

1:04:00

ways it comes to us

1:04:02

from Rose glass who made a former

1:04:04

Golden Brick nominee the 2021 religious horror

1:04:06

movie Saint Mod I'll

1:04:09

tip my hand a little bit her fingerprints

1:04:11

are all over this film Having

1:04:14

seen and enjoyed Saint Mod it it should be a

1:04:16

fun one to talk about. Yeah, looking forward to that

1:04:19

We're also going to continue our William

1:04:21

Weiler marathon the one we're starting this

1:04:23

week with Doddsworth next week It's the

1:04:25

best years of our lives This was

1:04:27

the first of Weilers combined best director

1:04:30

and best picture wins at

1:04:32

that point We'll also be able to share sweet 16

1:04:35

results and elite eight matchups in

1:04:37

film spotting madness best of the

1:04:39

1950s For more

1:04:41

information on that or if you want to vote in the current round

1:04:44

go to film spotting net slash madness

1:04:47

Got this email last night Josh and wanted to

1:04:49

share it. I think we

1:04:51

did Include a

1:04:53

highlight about this

1:04:55

fantasy league several months ago when it

1:04:57

kicked off something new from vulture We

1:05:00

even set up a film spotting league.

1:05:02

I know I submitted a Sheet

1:05:06

I submitted whatever you submit a team

1:05:09

and I did very very badly

1:05:12

But it's own spotting listener named

1:05:14

Ben Chung won the entire Vulture

1:05:18

You're kidding fantasy league it concluded

1:05:20

Sunday night with the Oscars I

1:05:23

won't get into a drawn-out explanation

1:05:25

of how the fantasy league does

1:05:27

their scoring but they consider

1:05:29

a combination of box office and

1:05:32

awards victories vultures Joe Reed Came

1:05:35

up with this and was the the

1:05:37

main administrator of it many film spotters

1:05:39

did take part in the fantasy league

1:05:41

among many thousands More film lovers there

1:05:43

was that film spotting team as I

1:05:45

mentioned and then won it all the

1:05:48

email went out from Joe and vulture

1:05:50

that he was the primary winner he wrote

1:05:52

in and said just wanted to let you

1:05:54

guys know I won this Representing the film

1:05:56

spotting league now. We all know which podcast

1:05:58

is the most educated educational flash award-winning

1:06:01

in the land Congratulations,

1:06:04

Ben. Yeah for more information about

1:06:06

that fantasy league. I'm sure it's coming back We'll

1:06:08

also link to it in our show notes go

1:06:11

to vulture.com movies

1:06:14

dash League I

1:06:16

wanted to quickly mention two events I'm having because

1:06:18

they're right around the corner these I Brought

1:06:21

up a little bit previously on the show a

1:06:23

couple weeks ago, but we're almost there March 21

1:06:25

I'll be at the University of Michigan Dearborn

1:06:28

I'm gonna be giving a book

1:06:30

talk and discussion based on fear

1:06:32

not Christian appreciation of horror movies

1:06:34

So yeah again, thanks to Nick and Reno

1:06:37

who is bringing me out He teaches there

1:06:39

in the Department of Language Culture and the

1:06:41

arts. I'll do it. I'll do a

1:06:43

lecture We'll have a conversation and then do an open Q&A

1:06:45

So it is free if you're in

1:06:48

the Dearborn Detroit area stop by March

1:06:50

21 and then that

1:06:52

weekend right after that I will be

1:06:54

heading out to Seattle March 23 I

1:06:57

will be introducing a screening of the

1:06:59

devil's backbone at make believe Seattle This

1:07:02

is a genre film fest organized by

1:07:04

friend of the show Billy Ray Bruton

1:07:06

I'll introduce the movie have a discussion

1:07:08

afterwards This is of course the 2001

1:07:10

Guillermo del Toro ghost story and talk

1:07:13

a little bit about it in the

1:07:15

context of fear not But also in

1:07:17

the context of what I'm really excited

1:07:19

to discover seems like a pretty crazy

1:07:21

Fest that Billy Ray helps put together

1:07:23

here. So that should be a lot

1:07:26

of fun That is March 23 if you want to

1:07:28

get tickets for that willing to it

1:07:30

in the show notes But otherwise you can look

1:07:32

for make believe Seattle This

1:07:34

coming fall. I'm going to be

1:07:36

teaching a producing film criticism college

1:07:38

class And I'm wondering how do

1:07:40

I get Josh Larson to come

1:07:43

lecture to my class? Do I

1:07:45

contact your manager? Yeah, yeah, yeah

1:07:47

the process. I'll talk

1:07:49

to my people and get them in touch with

1:07:51

you. Yeah the fees I just don't know if

1:07:53

I can afford you. Mm-hmm. Well,

1:07:55

we'll see what happens this week

1:07:57

on our sister podcast. The Next

1:07:59

Picture Show: It's part two of

1:08:01

the Even Cone Coke Keepers pairing

1:08:03

Cones, Drive Away Dolls and The

1:08:06

Cohen Brothers Raising Arizona. That's the

1:08:08

next picture show every Tuesday. wherever

1:08:10

you get your podcast. This

1:08:15

is absolute madness that mack

1:08:17

Matt that. Are

1:08:20

this is absolute madness Ambassador? You

1:08:23

build such a thing. Was

1:08:29

Ah. The

1:08:33

Sweet Sixteen is upon us. Josh

1:08:35

We have wrapped up round to

1:08:37

that Sweet Sixteen. Voting is live

1:08:39

Closes Monday March eighteenth The new

1:08:41

and Central Time Will say it

1:08:44

again. You can vote right now

1:08:46

has some spotting.net We do have

1:08:48

those round to results for you.

1:08:50

There were three upsets, some definitely.

1:08:52

More upsetting that others, depending on

1:08:54

who you ask. Seeds One through

1:08:57

nine. Are. All still with

1:08:59

us. Moon Vertigo. And. Rear

1:09:01

window from Hitchcock. Billy Wilder has a

1:09:03

pair: Sunset Boulevard and some like it

1:09:05

Hot Chris Always Seven, Samurai, Bergman, Seventh

1:09:08

Seal, Kubrick's Paths of Glory, Kelly and

1:09:10

Gone and Sing In In the Rain.

1:09:12

Those are all. Safe. You

1:09:15

will note I didn't say. Seeds.

1:09:17

One to ten were safe or on

1:09:19

that. But start with the least upsetting,

1:09:21

at least to me of these upsets,

1:09:23

even though I did vote for the

1:09:26

favorite in this case, number eighteen. Orson

1:09:28

Welles. A Touch of Evil. Takes.

1:09:31

Down. John Ford's The

1:09:33

Sooners, Fifty. Seven to forty

1:09:35

three percent. We. Heard from Carol Levinson

1:09:38

on this one. I swore I would vote

1:09:40

for the searchers in every round. but pitting

1:09:42

for against Wells is fiendish and their job

1:09:44

and hair and added Wells is the goat

1:09:47

for a reason. Touch of Evil takes it

1:09:49

by a hair and it was almost a

1:09:51

hair. Next up, Very. Upsetting.

1:09:54

I daresay. Confounding.

1:09:58

If your film spotting this. This

1:10:00

that hurts us. You think? maybe we

1:10:02

carry a little bit of weight? I

1:10:04

guess none of this with Mary revealing

1:10:06

number sixteen. Our. Beloved Rio

1:10:09

Bravo. Yeah. That Rio

1:10:11

Bravo! How rocks John Wayne? You.

1:10:13

Know Dean Martin? Out

1:10:15

in the second rounds. At.

1:10:17

The hands of David leans the bridge on

1:10:19

the river. Mine's the number seventeen seats so

1:10:22

just a slight of sit there and it

1:10:24

was close. That doesn't make me feel better

1:10:26

but it was another one fifty three to

1:10:28

forty seven percent. This. One

1:10:30

adam. This one makes

1:10:33

me rethink my entire production

1:10:35

bracket. Strategy. Which

1:10:37

has never been a sound strategy let me

1:10:40

be clear, but I always had one Cs

1:10:42

and that because we touched on last time

1:10:44

we looked at badness. Part of that strategy

1:10:46

is keeping in mind how many times you

1:10:49

in particular mention a film and Gb Not

1:10:51

a lot of weight over the course of

1:10:53

years on the show. But.

1:10:55

Rio Bravo. Now.

1:10:58

You. Have. Mentioned frequently.

1:11:01

Sam. Sam has mentioned frequently amazing

1:11:03

like the self might like it more

1:11:05

than the three of us. I saw

1:11:07

it much more recently, maybe the last

1:11:09

five years. possibly noise It was before

1:11:12

we did our screening and discussion of

1:11:14

it at a music box. I'd seen

1:11:16

it before then. But it

1:11:18

was relatively recently cel really hard for

1:11:20

it was all them like this is

1:11:22

yeah three for three. This is a

1:11:24

film spotted movies we do a live

1:11:27

event. Adam. And share

1:11:29

with us to a packed house. And then

1:11:31

for the shadow we do a show talking

1:11:33

about how great it is. yes I believe

1:11:35

that was wasn't that put in the seed.

1:11:38

Of. You for was put in

1:11:40

defeat. Emphasis: Rio Bravo in the

1:11:42

pantheon. Presumably listeners have heard that

1:11:45

conversation and yet. They.

1:11:47

To apparently give a crap what we say?

1:11:49

they don't. I don't want

1:11:52

to do it. I don't know what did

1:11:54

it with this information. very revealing I thought

1:11:56

for sure and I like bridge on the

1:11:58

river Kwai. I like very got. Very

1:12:00

good. I thought this was a slam

1:12:02

dunk mans meant to the sweet sixteen.

1:12:04

It might lose the sweet sixteen. I

1:12:06

think I predicted it to loosen the

1:12:08

sweet sixteen, but I thought it would

1:12:10

get their i just I don't know.

1:12:12

I may have to scrub the logs.

1:12:14

I may have to look for some

1:12:16

Cnn agains in the voting on line.

1:12:18

I mean this is a welder Explanation:

1:12:20

Does this count as a revolt? Are

1:12:22

we have revolt status? Yeah, yeah. I

1:12:25

think I think we might be. just

1:12:27

it's It's really hurtful. We're were both

1:12:29

taking rightfully personal offense. At this

1:12:31

Kyle cop and says if there was

1:12:33

ever a competition for what my boomer

1:12:35

dad will watch on a Sunday three

1:12:37

twenty five pm you a chat channel

1:12:39

afternoon at the movies slot. This.

1:12:42

Is it say? How dare you Can I

1:12:44

have you know what you to what we

1:12:46

all become our dance eventual. I

1:12:48

don't know I I'd see Kyle climbing the wall

1:12:50

right now. He's leading the charge. Yeah, I don't

1:12:52

know who's Stevens here in the Sex on The

1:12:54

You're Going To Read. I don't know who is

1:12:56

responding to in the poll comments This This is

1:12:58

an absurd gonna. I. Agree that

1:13:00

the song and Rio Bravo is absurd. What?

1:13:03

I do. I have keep reading this

1:13:06

comment every movie Magic. Trust yourself to

1:13:08

keep arenas know. The

1:13:10

sun is see him. To.

1:13:14

Return. To

1:13:16

the see. Red

1:13:19

wings. Are now.

1:13:23

It's time for her

1:13:25

father who dream. Or.

1:13:31

I like to pretend that it was

1:13:33

the song that drove the casting that

1:13:35

I think both Ricky Nelson and Dean

1:13:37

Martin are brilliant. Wow, Okay, we got

1:13:39

that. In fact, the cast is so

1:13:41

good that it's six deep with people

1:13:44

I love to see and then scrolling

1:13:46

even further down there's Harry Carey Jr

1:13:48

and Bell. Amazing art I guess receive

1:13:50

a good idea around him around half

1:13:52

not coming around. Dave Allen we're. We're.

1:13:54

Gonna have to revoke his don't spotting membership says

1:13:56

i think Rio Bravo to win here in my

1:13:58

brackets but I'm voting for. We require because

1:14:00

it's head and shoulders. The better film

1:14:02

Truth to Power. So this is what

1:14:04

this is about. It's about speaking truth

1:14:06

to power for our listeners. They are

1:14:08

revolting. It's a mutiny and I'm gonna

1:14:11

go. Humphrey Bogart or

1:14:13

Peter Ustinov? I don't know Marlon Brando named

1:14:15

name. You're famous actors who had to deal

1:14:17

with new these. That's that's what I'm gonna.

1:14:20

Start. Acting something the show Celtic Daves been

1:14:22

employed my strategy and yeah we gotta we

1:14:24

gotta start over from Square One Dave yeah

1:14:27

he's wrong on both counts. He said this

1:14:29

better film and he picked Rio Bravo to

1:14:31

advance so I guess that makes me feel

1:14:33

a little better. Last upset of round to.

1:14:37

May. Be. Slightly. Less

1:14:39

upsetting, but absolutely to me. It's.

1:14:42

Gonna make you. Apoplectic.

1:14:46

And it will continue

1:14:48

this notion that our

1:14:50

listeners are revolting. Number

1:14:52

Ten. Other

1:14:54

potentially. Another. Film in

1:14:56

the pantheon. It lost

1:14:59

if it's that enough, at a loss to

1:15:01

the number twenty three seed, a loss to

1:15:03

the film that you might have made the

1:15:05

sixty fourth seed. Twelve Angry

1:15:08

Men And it wasn't even close. It

1:15:10

was sixty three percent to thirty seven.

1:15:12

Adam, I'm telling you, I. Am

1:15:14

not a pop apoplectic. Is that what? I'm

1:15:16

supposed to be? A plastic now? Or hikers?

1:15:19

I'm saving it. I'm. Saving it

1:15:21

for when twelve angry Men takes this

1:15:23

thing. Ah, It won't happen.

1:15:26

Again, but it won't from what we're

1:15:28

seeing. Anything can happen to down

1:15:30

Satyajit Ray. I knew that I knew that

1:15:33

was gonna happen. I mean that was predictable.

1:15:35

I'd I did predicted as well to advance

1:15:37

but I was rooting for the upset. I

1:15:39

know you were as well and I thought

1:15:42

it had a chance but again wasn't really

1:15:44

close. Here's their and I do really enjoy

1:15:46

Twelve Angry Men. but when I re watched

1:15:48

Pot Upon Charlie this past weekend I wondered

1:15:51

what more could movies possibly offer? Stencils Angry

1:15:53

Men may be the number one fifties movie

1:15:55

on letterbox. The Potter been Charlie's among the

1:15:57

most influential movies of all time. So. Therein.

1:16:01

Is. Pontificating hear that there may

1:16:03

be for connections for influences. The movie

1:16:05

Me Be getting some Oh Buys from

1:16:07

some of these other great films. Do

1:16:09

wanna share? those from there are the

1:16:12

first is that I had lots of

1:16:14

dreams to speech that the Mother delivers

1:16:16

halfway through Must have been under weeks

1:16:18

mind when she wrote America Ferrera speech

1:16:20

in Barbie his second connection. I do

1:16:23

believe that technology has arrived. Pylon reveal

1:16:25

may have inspired the monolith reveal in

1:16:27

Two Thousand and One A Space Odyssey.

1:16:29

I like the sauce. Third, The palm

1:16:32

scene after the hopeful letter/before the devastating storm

1:16:34

may have inspired Malik to say about the

1:16:36

Tree of Life less completely leave the narrative

1:16:38

two thirds of the way through for a

1:16:41

meditation of life in the universe and last

1:16:43

one here. though the motives were very different.

1:16:45

up who. watching the necklace sink. the swap

1:16:47

was clearly a visual reference with Norman Bates

1:16:50

turf asleep, watches Myriads car seat into the

1:16:52

swamp. I dunno, dared I? I figure I

1:16:54

figure out you've gone too far there. He

1:16:56

might be reaching a little bit or a

1:16:59

lot, but. What? I

1:17:01

am appreciating. Here is a daring saw Father fine,

1:17:03

jolly and now. He. Sees it

1:17:05

in every single movie was maybe this

1:17:07

what has happened for the rest at

1:17:09

times. Every that's understandable. I get bass

1:17:11

yeah so he says enclosing. Potter.

1:17:14

Punch Alley Devastates inspires me every time

1:17:16

I watch it in my personal voting,

1:17:18

it makes it all the way to

1:17:20

the finish line of this madness. Unfortunately,

1:17:22

my bracket predicts it's run is ended

1:17:25

here for Nixon. Was. Correct. Other.

1:17:27

Films we had to bid

1:17:29

adieu to Six. Imitation of

1:17:31

Life. Bad. Tournaments bad

1:17:34

round for Westerns: The Searchers,

1:17:36

Rio Bravo. And High Noon

1:17:38

or gone wild Strawberries and Bergman is

1:17:40

gone. Then her from Wyler at on

1:17:43

this can be part of our marathon

1:17:45

is out. Brando. Out, a Streetcar

1:17:47

named Desire and on the Waterfront and

1:17:49

is no James Dean. Rebel. Without

1:17:51

a cause is gone. Godzilla.

1:17:54

Out know Kubrick's The

1:17:56

Killing. A key

1:17:58

roof from Korea Saba. Last two: Kubrick's

1:18:00

Paths of Glory, A Bar Percent Yeah

1:18:02

to Forty Seven, and Adam Eve. A

1:18:04

Murders Gone And We did lose to

1:18:06

Hitchcock's We Have To Left But we

1:18:08

lost two more Hitchcock Strangers on a

1:18:10

train. And the soccer of

1:18:13

this round? the one that messed

1:18:15

up a few brackets. North.

1:18:17

By Northwest losing. To.

1:18:19

Night of The Hunter Who fifty nine percent

1:18:22

to forty one if you look at it

1:18:24

on paper. This is

1:18:26

an upset because North by Northwest was

1:18:28

twenty two. And the

1:18:30

selection committee put Night of the Hunter. All.

1:18:33

The Way Up at Eleven. In our original version

1:18:35

of this, you may recall when we went over

1:18:37

this with the phone spotting advisory board on a

1:18:39

Zune call a few weeks ago. It

1:18:42

kinda came out the maybe we were overrating Night

1:18:44

of the Hunter not that we were overeating the

1:18:46

film and it's quality. But. Maybe it's

1:18:48

chances to advance and we heard a

1:18:50

lot of voices saying no North by

1:18:52

Northwest is more revered and you guys

1:18:54

are giving it credit for Sam and

1:18:56

I've seen the the seating around a

1:18:58

little bit. And we had night

1:19:00

at one hundred. One point in the top

1:19:02

ten. I think it was at ten. We

1:19:04

bumped it just out for Father Punch, Holly

1:19:07

and. It. It could go

1:19:09

a long way in this tournament just because it. Took.

1:19:11

Down. North. By northwest I think

1:19:13

I. Predicted. That

1:19:15

one actually get to it or get out of.

1:19:18

Oh okay. oh ok or I've got the details.

1:19:21

With first here from David, be on this.

1:19:23

I wouldn't be so sure North by Northwest

1:19:25

is going to win this. I'm a huge

1:19:27

proponent of it. I think it's vastly underrated

1:19:29

as a piece of pure Hollywood entertainment. Cary

1:19:32

Grant was never better, Eva Marie St. is

1:19:34

seductive and complex, and James Mason his pitch

1:19:36

perfect in his evil sophistication. But Robert Mitchum

1:19:38

is one of the bus bad guys in

1:19:40

movie history. and the Night of the Hunter

1:19:42

gets into your head and doesn't let go

1:19:44

unless fewer than half the voters have seen

1:19:46

it. I don't think it can lose. I

1:19:49

would love to see it make a deep.

1:19:51

Run in this bracket. Here's

1:19:53

man with a very good point to

1:19:55

destroy. The Night of the Hunter is

1:19:57

to destroy the only evidence the Charles

1:19:59

Laughton directed anything. it's debut feature the

1:20:02

of unparalleled beauty and style enlightens only

1:20:04

directional work less not add insult to

1:20:06

injury here. Send those crop dusters back

1:20:08

where they came from and crystallize Robert

1:20:10

Mitchum. Love Hate Knuckles forever. Ps. Looking

1:20:13

forward to just getting those headed for

1:20:15

the since Using Punishment series that the

1:20:17

punishment we settled on several we paid

1:20:19

a procedural change around is it sounded

1:20:21

to me sounds to me that are

1:20:24

Space Man as punishment enough? Maybe. So

1:20:26

let's get to the Sweet Sixteen. That

1:20:28

means there are eight match. Ups: And.

1:20:31

Will do our usual order here. look

1:20:33

at it may be the toughest to

1:20:35

predict the toughest attack and also some

1:20:37

upsets. I've got a few here Josh

1:20:39

and I'd love to hear your reactions

1:20:41

and any did you have. There's only

1:20:43

one. Upset. That.

1:20:45

I am rooting for. To foreign

1:20:47

language films and hence this is just

1:20:49

gonna had so much fuel to the

1:20:51

fire. About how you'll have to point

1:20:54

out oh here we guy or disdain

1:20:56

for the Seven Samurai and the anti

1:20:58

Korea South Street Geico resolve Our anti

1:21:00

Seven Samurai know I'm just super super

1:21:02

pro. The. Four hundred blows.

1:21:04

I do prefer to so self

1:21:06

to tough. Samara costs really tough.

1:21:09

I think it's gonna lose but

1:21:11

I prefer. I. Can't

1:21:13

agree with you because. That

1:21:15

would support your seven Samurai Heresy.

1:21:18

So you're wrong. Seven Samurai Jack

1:21:20

is better to have any upsets

1:21:22

the your I innocent ah upsets

1:21:24

that I'm rooting for. I mean

1:21:26

I you know. I

1:21:30

have neither. The Hunter could continue. It's

1:21:32

run because it's up against. The.

1:21:34

Seven Ceo which is fine. it's

1:21:36

it's kind. at least my perception

1:21:38

is that is the bird. Everyone

1:21:42

sees. And

1:21:44

maybe I have that wrong. but.

1:21:46

If. That is true. If that's the case, may

1:21:49

be just too many people have seen it

1:21:51

and they're gonna vote for it's. to the

1:21:53

listeners point out is one hunter still? perhaps

1:21:55

a little wonder seen but I don't know

1:21:57

and I'm wondering with our audience right? maybe.com.

1:22:00

They do think I would vote for neither the

1:22:02

Hunter over just personally though personal choice I would

1:22:04

vote for it over the seventh seal. Okay,

1:22:06

we'll get there in a second. I'm with you

1:22:08

on this one. In. Terms of it

1:22:10

being a tough one to predict for

1:22:12

me because of what you just said.

1:22:14

If you're gonna talk about a Bergman

1:22:16

film it's probably going to be The

1:22:18

Seventh Seal. A Sinner Files entre yes

1:22:20

a foreign language cinema. Yeah Bergman, It's

1:22:22

a classic. It is an amazing film.

1:22:24

I also do really love neither The

1:22:26

Hunter so tells us to predict It's

1:22:28

one of my to the other one

1:22:31

and I have looked at the voting

1:22:33

on this one just now since I

1:22:35

took these notes and it's living up

1:22:37

to what I'm saying It is here

1:22:39

and that is. The number One tells

1:22:41

us to predict. Paths

1:22:43

Of Glory. Vs. Twelve Angry

1:22:45

Men and whenever a second on the

1:22:47

voting yes it is usually separated. I'm

1:22:49

not kidding by one vote, it just

1:22:51

going back and forth all weekend. Zach

1:22:53

Brooks reddit and said i hope has

1:22:55

of glory and Twelve Angry Men is

1:22:57

settled in a courtroom. Which

1:23:00

makes sense. It might have to be because he

1:23:02

could ended that I. Yeah. That

1:23:04

I mean this is. you know I do.

1:23:06

I know coup brick went out or a

1:23:08

correct title went out right the last round.

1:23:10

but as a deal. Ah, the force is

1:23:12

strong with him as we've seen and all

1:23:14

of these madness competitions. Oh.

1:23:19

It's it's gonna be the toughest

1:23:22

tech challenge I think. Twelve

1:23:24

angry man has faced yet. I

1:23:27

would not be surprised. If

1:23:29

it takes down. Paths. Of Glory.

1:23:31

The yeah, I will see, I'm

1:23:33

not. I'm not going to look, I'm

1:23:36

just gonna wait until it comes out

1:23:38

and will announce it on Monday. We'll

1:23:40

see if Kubrick or The Lumet Move

1:23:43

On tells us to pick. Slides.

1:23:45

And we. I've three that we

1:23:47

haven't already mentioned. That. I

1:23:50

either hesitated on for many

1:23:52

minutes or still haven't voted

1:23:54

on because I can't bring

1:23:56

myself to deck. and they're

1:23:58

all. Sort of

1:24:00

head vs heart battles. One.

1:24:02

Of them is The Seventh Seal Brussels Night of The Hunter.

1:24:06

My. Shirts. My. Heart says

1:24:08

neither The Hunter. My. Head. says.

1:24:10

How do we live in a world that

1:24:13

doesn't have the dance of death? And.

1:24:15

Playing chess with death. All

1:24:17

that iconic. Imagery. Everything

1:24:20

that. Some. Movie ushered

1:24:22

for run all the influence of

1:24:24

would eventually have on Hollywood filmmaking

1:24:26

as well. I. Think

1:24:28

I did vote night. As a hunter,

1:24:30

it's so hard to vote against. Bergman.

1:24:33

Just so hard. Yeah.

1:24:35

I get it. I get it. it's it's it

1:24:37

is that and I'm looking. Another one. For

1:24:41

birdman. I. Would say seven

1:24:43

Ceo is similar to what Rostrum

1:24:45

on his. To caress our

1:24:48

that that entry as you were

1:24:50

discussing to Aren't Zone side looking

1:24:52

at Rostrum and Vs. Sunset Boulevard

1:24:54

as number two is that where

1:24:56

to? For me I mean this

1:24:58

oh man same thing by heart

1:25:00

says I can't live without Norma

1:25:02

Desmond. I can't live without William

1:25:04

Holden performance and and that Billy

1:25:06

Wilder classic and that I think

1:25:08

about. Again, the influence of

1:25:10

Russia months a film that that

1:25:12

created the notion. Of subjective

1:25:14

truth utilizing cinema. I know didn't create

1:25:16

the idea of subjective truth but the

1:25:19

way we think about it now it

1:25:21

he became the definition for it and

1:25:23

all the films. The use that nonlinear

1:25:25

structure and made us question point of

1:25:27

view and what we're seeing with our

1:25:29

own eyes. It's thus film. It's.

1:25:31

Seminal. But. I also love since

1:25:33

Hippel or. Yeah. It's

1:25:35

it's true, everything is have a rush

1:25:37

from on but I'm afraid out I'm

1:25:39

I'm this is this is revealing me

1:25:41

to be an isolationist. I voted. For.

1:25:44

The American film before and I'm going to

1:25:47

as well Sunset Boulevard. I've gotta go with

1:25:49

it. over Rostrum on I'm sorry. Okay,

1:25:52

My. Last tough one to pick. Some

1:25:55

like a Hot vs All About

1:25:57

Eve. Both very good films, both

1:26:00

film. I really enjoy. But.

1:26:02

Have may be only seen once if I'm

1:26:05

being totally honest. I'm like it or twice

1:26:07

probably. but a while back. And.

1:26:11

I. Don't have that. I don't have that immediate

1:26:13

gut reaction, the heart vs. head reaction like a

1:26:15

do with the other two matchups we just talked

1:26:17

about. I. Feel about the

1:26:19

same about both of these films, and

1:26:21

in this case, my gut. Is.

1:26:23

Pulling me against wilder. And.

1:26:26

It's pulling me towards all the buddies. In

1:26:29

this case, out I'm I'm simply going to go

1:26:31

with a film that gives Marilyn Monroe more screen

1:26:33

time which is some like it hot. Yes,

1:26:36

Definitely, they are both Marilyn Monroe starring

1:26:38

films though you're right, Just, but she

1:26:40

is definitely more the lead in some

1:26:42

like It Hot and that's generally a

1:26:44

good approach when making these choices. A

1:26:47

few easy ones: I thought rear window

1:26:49

over bridge on the River Kwai probably.

1:26:52

A no brainer for both of us. Sing

1:26:54

and in the rain over Touch of Evil.

1:26:56

No brainer. Think so. Yeah, I mean most

1:26:58

of A Touch of Evils Brilliant. It's I

1:27:00

love it. Yeah, I'd I'd It's not like

1:27:02

Lesser Wells or anything like that, but singing

1:27:04

in there, anything in the rain and I

1:27:06

know you did just recently catch up with

1:27:08

Tokyo Story. I think you probably saver vertigo

1:27:10

as I do. I do. I mean allow

1:27:12

me to be heretical. And and I think,

1:27:14

what's the what's the term? Lesar Ozu. With

1:27:18

this was no one's ever uttered that phrase

1:27:20

in relation to Tokyo Story before. I doubt

1:27:22

you I know of and loved it.

1:27:24

Obviously loved it. Just have seen other

1:27:26

films of his that I've loved more

1:27:29

and having yeah watch Vertigo within what

1:27:31

three weeks of it. Or fresh

1:27:33

in my mind I do as to

1:27:35

go with vertigo. This is perfect though

1:27:38

because your big heresy the is thinking

1:27:40

take you a story is lesser Ozu

1:27:42

and mine is thinking seven Samurai as

1:27:44

lesser Korea. Solace or not, it's a

1:27:47

create. Desserts are some apparently best. Yes,

1:27:49

Talk about how to help the show

1:27:51

find your listeners. I think that would

1:27:54

do it before we send you off

1:27:56

to vote in the Sweet Sixteen. An

1:27:58

update on the bracket prediction contest Oversight:

1:28:01

Hundred and fifty listeners submitted their brackets

1:28:03

their predictions after round to we have

1:28:05

three people tied. For. First

1:28:07

place. It's me. You and

1:28:09

Sam. Are you okay? Let's not. not.

1:28:11

even not even close. We have three

1:28:14

listeners who were tied for first: Damon.

1:28:17

Adam. And we did hear back.

1:28:19

Would like to email and hear

1:28:21

from these listeners. We got one

1:28:23

response as of this recording: Monica

1:28:25

Silva. She lives in London. She's

1:28:27

originally from Portugal. All three of

1:28:29

the Listers I just mentioned. Have

1:28:32

only. Lost. One match

1:28:34

up. So for how. And all

1:28:36

three. Had. It happen in the first

1:28:39

round so he didn't affect anything in

1:28:41

round two. There are few other listeners

1:28:43

who also only missed one, but they missed

1:28:45

one in round two and points are

1:28:47

worth more. In round to

1:28:49

sell all twelve listeners. Who.

1:28:51

Are perfect. Last week. They're all

1:28:53

out of. First we have Dame and I

1:28:56

think Adam and Monica in London see says.

1:28:58

I've been listening to phone spotting since twenty

1:29:00

nineteen, back when I was on maternity leave.

1:29:02

Now the little one is five and soon

1:29:04

he will also be a really nice for

1:29:07

this madness bracket. I did a quick assessment

1:29:09

of the movies popularity. Habit This

1:29:11

formula. Josh is laying it all out the

1:29:13

i Don't Share this. these are state secrets.

1:29:15

Monica, what are you doing? Quick assessment of

1:29:18

the movies popularity, critical acclaim user rating it.

1:29:20

If they had the film spotting Bump Oh

1:29:22

yeah, so maybe here in her algorithm don't

1:29:25

spotting bumpers just waited less than you're waiting.

1:29:27

It just. I mean I would exceed. I

1:29:29

would hope South as a player since the

1:29:31

Madness eighties tournament, this is the first time

1:29:34

I had such a high score so I

1:29:36

wouldn't say this is a bullet proof enough

1:29:38

as he insists the for now it's work.

1:29:40

Nice! Congratulations. Monica and to

1:29:42

all three of our current.

1:29:45

First. Place entrance our

1:29:48

internal bracket contests that's

1:29:50

new. Me: Producer.

1:29:52

Sam and would always be Madness Godfather Mike

1:29:54

Merrigan and it would also be the winner

1:29:57

of last year's competition except their one in

1:29:59

the same. Somehow, Mike Merrigan via

1:30:01

one at all last year. Shady

1:30:03

Not only not only Josh is

1:30:05

he. Leading. Us. He's

1:30:08

he dominating. Me: You

1:30:10

and Sam also shady. He's

1:30:12

in a tie for sixth overall of gas.

1:30:14

He could win it all again. If only

1:30:16

we all invented games that we'd be awesome

1:30:18

as like I'm just I'm just going to

1:30:20

spend some erudite thinking of like, what would

1:30:22

I be the best in the world that

1:30:24

and propose it as a game. Sounds.

1:30:27

Like a fool. Proof Plants I missed

1:30:29

for in round one and I missed

1:30:32

another three this week. Rio Bravo over

1:30:34

River Kwai. Wrong Searchers over Touch of

1:30:36

Evil Wrong North by Northwest overnight of

1:30:38

the Hunter. Wrong. I do blame Sam.

1:30:42

But you miss five and around one

1:30:44

and he missed another. for the swings

1:30:46

I play button until about a hike

1:30:48

like me you had bravo will require

1:30:51

you had sensors over touch of evil.

1:30:53

You also did take wild strawberries are

1:30:55

how about eve and accurate overpass Glasgow.

1:30:58

You did pick correctly. Night. Of

1:31:00

the Hunter, I thought I'd get around by

1:31:02

northwest and that means congratulations. You're the type

1:31:04

for three hundred and forty first. I'll take

1:31:06

it. I met a tie for two hundred

1:31:08

seconds at the guy this that sacked Sam.

1:31:10

He's doing a little bit better than both

1:31:12

of us, but not as good as might.

1:31:15

He missed three. He. Liked me

1:31:17

Had north by northwest beating night of

1:31:19

the Hunter wrong and he has three

1:31:21

car. Overtook your story. He also

1:31:23

thought Rebel without a Cause would take

1:31:25

down four hundred blows. He does wanted

1:31:27

to put it in editors or producers

1:31:30

know here. For the record, he's happy

1:31:32

about those wins by Loving Streetcar. He's

1:31:34

tied. For. One hundred and forty

1:31:36

first Now Crisis: That so Sam doesn't think

1:31:38

Tokyo Story as is lesser of zoo. That's

1:31:41

a nice I don't I don't think

1:31:43

he feels that's what he's put it

1:31:45

out there. Okay, yeah, yeah, he definitely

1:31:47

wants that on the record. Sweet Sixteen

1:31:49

Voting is Open vote Now A Film

1:31:51

spotting.net or Sell spotting.net/madness. That's

1:31:58

worth Motor Company Samuel, That's worth. It

1:32:00

became a poverty of using most a little

1:32:02

over an hour ago. While

1:32:07

our enemies seen as just so twenty years

1:32:09

and his life and first of your time

1:32:11

most well I knew what I was doing

1:32:13

when I saw him on Autumn after from

1:32:15

our. Of san do

1:32:17

look so moon for dog. I'm

1:32:27

just as keen on this topic. That's

1:32:29

with Chatterton and Walter Houston and Dogs

1:32:31

worth from Nineteen. Thirty Six is the

1:32:34

first film and are six film William

1:32:36

Wyler marathon dogs with earn while or

1:32:38

his first Best Director nomination. While.

1:32:41

Or was born in Germany and

1:32:43

Nineteen o' Two in Nineteen Twenty

1:32:45

One, He was introduced to a

1:32:47

distant cousin, Pearl Lemley, owner of

1:32:49

Universal Studios, who hired him to

1:32:51

work in New York. By Nineteen

1:32:53

Twenty Five, he was the youngest

1:32:55

director on the Universal Lot. Mostly

1:32:57

directing silent westerns. he made his

1:32:59

first talking picture, holes Heroes in

1:33:01

Nineteen Twenty Nine. He continued making

1:33:03

films until Nineteen Seventy and died

1:33:05

a decade later in Nineteen Eighty

1:33:07

One. We've. Talked about his

1:33:09

twelve directing nominations total and is

1:33:11

three Best Picture When he also

1:33:13

directed thirty one actors to nominations,

1:33:15

some like regular collaborator Betty Davis

1:33:17

to multiple nominations. That might be

1:33:19

a good place to start with

1:33:21

Dogs Worth with Wyler as a

1:33:23

director of actors. The Films: Based

1:33:25

on a Nineteen Thirty Four stage

1:33:27

adaptation of a Nineteen Twenty Nine

1:33:29

Sinclair Lewis novel, The Clip. We

1:33:32

came into this segment with such

1:33:34

things up nicely. Walter Houston is

1:33:36

Sam Da. It's worth a successful.

1:33:38

Automobile industry else who's just sold his

1:33:40

company. He and his wife chatterton's Fran

1:33:42

are planning to go abroad to enjoy

1:33:45

life. After twenty years of work and

1:33:47

raising a family in a small Midwestern

1:33:49

town, Fran in particular expresses an eagerness

1:33:51

to quote have a new life from

1:33:54

the very beginning a perfectly free, adventurous

1:33:56

life. As it turns out, the couple

1:33:58

doesn't really know he. The other

1:34:00

at all. So. Let's return

1:34:03

of those performances. Adam, I'm A

1:34:05

is this a film you found

1:34:07

both equally compelling both leads. Ah,

1:34:09

I'm a year And not only

1:34:11

the performances, but the characters, I'm

1:34:13

curious. did you find both characters

1:34:15

equally compelling and that this is

1:34:17

a bit of a leading class?

1:34:19

It isn't quite as it said

1:34:21

I'll does because you post on

1:34:23

letterbox to him. Before.

1:34:26

I ever get around to share anything. I'd

1:34:28

never shared a thing until we've talked about

1:34:30

a year on the show. Usually because I'm

1:34:32

typing my know it's right up until game

1:34:34

time. I do in this case and in

1:34:36

some cases know where you're going with a

1:34:38

film and I know that you're supposed to

1:34:40

be kind of prompting me here because I

1:34:43

prompted you on Eternal Sunshine, but. I.

1:34:45

Know that I liked this film overall

1:34:48

more than you and I know I

1:34:50

liked. A. Certain performance in a

1:34:52

certain character more than you based on what

1:34:54

I saw injure blurb self. I'd actually rather

1:34:56

just put it back on you and maybe

1:34:59

start their me with getting dear dear quibbles

1:35:01

what's your reservation or if you want me

1:35:03

to jump in and explain why I don't

1:35:05

have reservations I will do that and follow

1:35:08

your lead to Ib and I don't want

1:35:10

us to be like this is still my

1:35:12

likes right I'd I did appreciate it for

1:35:14

reasons will get to but A but I

1:35:16

did have a sticking point that surprised me.

1:35:19

he and it was Ruth Chatterton's France some.

1:35:21

What the performance? But it's more

1:35:23

the structure that I think. Almost.

1:35:26

Pushes her into a corner as

1:35:28

I see it. Odd that I

1:35:31

felt left in overall imbalance where

1:35:33

I wanted to feel sorry for.

1:35:36

France. Situation and this early seen the

1:35:39

one we heard I was all on board

1:35:41

with her. I was like oh I love

1:35:43

this woman like let's look at Lake City,

1:35:45

Utah and we're not the same position. Lord.

1:35:48

Knows I wish I was retiring. I'm not

1:35:50

retirees but we are empty nest in his

1:35:52

late in the near future for us. So

1:35:55

seen this woman saying you know like what

1:35:57

were we have this new phase of life.

1:36:00

And she's. Making. Her

1:36:02

case for why it's exciting and they're not

1:36:04

just gonna sit on their butts and bore

1:36:06

each other to that. I'm like oh okay

1:36:08

you you go. I love the line about

1:36:11

lights. She's a better dancer that her daughter.

1:36:13

She still good looking and I even loved

1:36:15

the touch of Sam Dodds worth she makes

1:36:18

that line about. I'm at the age now

1:36:20

where European men start to notice me up

1:36:22

for it right or other interested in women

1:36:24

policy. Response to that he smiles. And.

1:36:27

And it's it's it's hold me. These

1:36:29

are two people who are on the

1:36:31

same page even if their pages have

1:36:33

been apart for a long time by

1:36:35

necessity of their lots and I'm not

1:36:37

seen. I expected just a completely happy

1:36:40

picture from that point forward. But to

1:36:42

what my mind, what I got was

1:36:44

a picture that. Under put

1:36:46

this in stark terms is not

1:36:48

the start, but essentially depicted Sam

1:36:51

as something of a long suffering

1:36:53

St Anne's Three and as something

1:36:55

of I'm. A

1:36:58

selfish narcissist. There

1:37:01

are variations throughout the movie. I will grant

1:37:03

you that. There are

1:37:05

scenes that will counter that, but

1:37:07

if we did a boring sharks.

1:37:10

And. Made a list of

1:37:12

the scenes that depicted

1:37:14

Sam as this honest,

1:37:16

sincere, all sharks. Are

1:37:19

loving, committed, Babies.

1:37:22

A little boring but login he

1:37:24

committed husband. I'm against scenes that

1:37:26

showed her to be. Insecure,

1:37:30

narcissistic, striving

1:37:32

ambitious, cruel,

1:37:34

Rude. Unfaithful. I

1:37:36

mean, it's like the The List goes

1:37:39

on and on. and I do think

1:37:41

Chatterton's performance I found it to be.

1:37:43

Aside from that opening scene mostly stuck

1:37:45

in that in that realm, I'm doesn't

1:37:47

make it a terrible movie, it just

1:37:49

make that one where I'm. You

1:37:52

do I couldn't quite embrace as much as

1:37:54

I wanted to. I guess. Well,

1:37:57

Good that that gives us a

1:37:59

point. To move forward on an hour

1:38:01

point for me to disagree with while also

1:38:04

acknowledging that I do, in this case, understand

1:38:06

what you're saying that I don't think anything

1:38:08

I'm going to say is going to convince

1:38:10

you. Otherwise, I'm still going

1:38:12

to try to express the best I can

1:38:15

be experience I had with the film and

1:38:17

it was very different. When I do want

1:38:19

to mention off the top that it. Was

1:38:22

a crazy bit of coincident spotting

1:38:24

with these two films. Dodds worth

1:38:26

matching up randomly with Eternal Sunshine

1:38:28

of the Spotless Mind. It was

1:38:30

actually very helpful for me. To

1:38:32

see this before eternal sunshine.

1:38:35

And. Then connect Clementine to Fran and

1:38:37

I think it's helped me a

1:38:39

little bit. To. Better understand friend

1:38:42

if anything rather than actually feeling

1:38:44

like she wasn't as convincingly drawn

1:38:46

I thought the informed each other

1:38:48

in my mind and I think

1:38:50

all four of these characters with

1:38:52

to relationships in states of combust

1:38:54

and yet there's There's something at

1:38:56

their core the keeps these these

1:38:58

people together or coming together. All

1:39:01

four of these characters are lost

1:39:03

in there trying to figure out.

1:39:05

What? Love means in there trying

1:39:08

to figure out what happiness means,

1:39:10

what fulfillment is? Who they are

1:39:12

is individual people, who they are

1:39:14

as people within a relationship. And

1:39:16

there's a similar free spiritedness, certainly,

1:39:19

and impulsiveness. To fran.

1:39:22

As. There is to Clementine, one of

1:39:24

Clementine lines perfectly applies to France. When

1:39:26

she says i'm always anxious thinking I'm

1:39:28

not living my life to the fullest.

1:39:30

You know, Taking. Advantage of every

1:39:32

possibility. Again, I watched

1:39:35

odds with first, so I immediately

1:39:37

flashback to Fran when I heard

1:39:39

Clementine say that's in the case

1:39:41

of Dad's Worth That sentiment That

1:39:43

anxiousness. Is. Explicitly tied

1:39:45