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is Amy Poehler. My new movie, Disney and Pixar's

1:01

Inside Out 2, is coming to theaters June 14th.

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And it's making me feel joy

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and sadness and anger. Definitely

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some disgust. Rose. And I think a little

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fear. Ah, ah. Really? But

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I'm also feeling these new emotions

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It's what you call the boredom. Okay, that

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one was weird. It's gonna be the feel

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everything movie of the summer. Disney and Pixar's

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Inside Out 2, only in theaters June 14.

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Let's get tickets now. Hey Film Spotters, you

1:32

can tune in next week to hear Michael

1:34

Phillips and I talk about Furiosa. But

1:37

I'm sure a lot of you were revisiting

1:39

Fury Road in anticipation of George Miller's new

1:41

prequel. So we thought we'd share our original

1:44

2015 conversation. So

1:47

Fury Road, Adam, I think I've probably seen since

1:49

2015, oh

1:51

gosh, four, maybe five times because it

1:53

was, well, it was the subject of

1:55

Ebert interruptus in 2018, which

1:58

I hosted. And as you know, that involves You

2:00

know watching the movie once together going through it

2:02

for a couple of days a second time I'm

2:04

sure I watched it in preparation in advance. I

2:07

just rewatched it because I did a think

2:09

Christian video essay on Fury Road So yeah,

2:11

I'm soaked in Fury Road. Have you seen

2:13

it since 2015? No, no one

2:16

time one time was it So I I

2:18

need to do some homework I need to

2:20

get myself properly pumped for Furiosa

2:22

as if I could be more

2:24

excited here It is from May

2:26

2015 our first impressions of Mad

2:28

Max Fury Road I

2:58

I I Expected

3:22

we'd be talking about a few things when it

3:24

came to Mad Max Fury Road Adam its

3:27

place within the Mad Max Franchise Tom Hardy

3:29

stepping into the dusty boots of Mel Gibson

3:31

Whether or not the action lives up to

3:33

the sort of Zen chaos we both admire

3:35

and most recently brought to bear on the

3:38

fast And the furious franchise what

3:40

I didn't expect was that Mad Max Fury

3:42

Road would become a touchstone for a conversation

3:44

about gender and Feminism, but

3:46

it has in loud internet fashion

3:49

So that's where I'd like to

3:51

start even before the movie

3:53

came out a men's activist website called

3:55

return of Kings Called for

3:57

a boycott of the film in all seriousness

3:59

from what I can tell. This appears

4:01

to be for real. They

4:04

claim that the movie was trying

4:06

quote to kowtow to feminism. The

4:08

main complaint that Max, the

4:10

post-apocalyptic wanderer now played by Tom

4:13

Hardy, appeared to play second

4:15

fiddle to a new female character called

4:17

Imperator Furiosa. Am I pronouncing

4:19

that right? I know I have trouble

4:21

with- For once, I think you got

4:23

a pronunciation correct. The names of listeners

4:26

from other countries, let alone apocalyptic futures.

4:28

Anyways, Imperator Furiosa, she's played by Charlize

4:30

Theron. Indeed, he is sidetracked

4:33

by her. The plot mostly involves Furiosa's attempt

4:35

to smuggle out a group of young women

4:37

who are being forced to be breeders for

4:39

a deranged warlord named Immortan Joe. It gets

4:41

better. I'm glad you looked that up. I

4:43

had no idea. Oh yeah. I think they

4:45

yell it in the film quite a bit,

4:47

but they're yelling a lot of things. They

4:49

yell a lot of things. Immortan

4:51

Joe actually is played by Hugh

4:53

Keesburn, and he is the

4:56

bad guy in the original Mad Max. No kidding. Yeah.

4:58

I didn't realize that until afterwards. Max

5:00

now, he happens to be a personal

5:02

prisoner of one of Joe's foot soldiers

5:04

played by Nicholas Holt. So when these

5:07

soldiers take off in pursuit of Furiosa's

5:09

truck, Max is dragged along. Even

5:11

with this emphasis on female characters, though,

5:14

some aren't so sure about Fury Road's

5:16

feminist credentials. On Twitter, Anita

5:18

Sarkeesian, host of the web series Feminist

5:20

Frequency, bluntly declared, I saw Fury Road.

5:23

I get why people like it, but

5:25

it isn't feminist. One of the reasons

5:27

she gave in a series of tweets

5:29

was this, feminism doesn't simply mean women

5:32

getting to partake in typical badass guy

5:34

stuff. Feminism is about redefining our social

5:36

value system. So Adam, where

5:38

do you fall on the question of whether

5:40

or not Mad Max Fury Road is feminist?

5:42

Or do you think that this

5:45

debate itself has hijacked a movie that is

5:47

at its core just a brilliant take no

5:49

prisoners action flick? Well, I guess I can't

5:51

say that it's hijacked it because I only

5:54

just became aware of this raging debate. Sometimes

5:56

I'm a little bit behind on these things

5:58

as we discuss these. movies because I

6:00

just haven't been really reading

6:03

those blogs or clicking on all

6:05

those links in the tweets. Basically I do know

6:07

everybody that I follow on Twitter and Facebook has

6:09

been in love with this movie. Beyond that, I

6:11

hadn't really been too invested

6:13

in this larger conversation and I'm glad

6:16

we're having this conversation. I guess the

6:18

question I put back on you Josh

6:20

is can I say that it's not

6:23

a feminist movie but

6:25

still like the movie? I think that may

6:27

be the more challenging question to answer. One

6:30

of the things I was going to put back on you

6:32

without knowing that we were going to start off the conversation

6:35

this way is how do we talk

6:37

about how entertaining, how thrilling, how

6:39

fun it is to see a

6:42

quote unquote strong female character like

6:45

Charlize Theron plays here without it coming off

6:47

as totally patronizing. I don't know that there's

6:49

a way to have that conversation anymore without

6:51

it seeming like that, oh look, she can

6:53

be a violent badass just like all the other

6:55

men in this movie and like the other men we're used to

6:57

seeing in action movies. That's

7:00

problematic in and of itself and I think maybe we

7:02

can come back to that as we talk more about

7:04

that character and the performance. That

7:07

initial question I threw to you, can I

7:09

say it's feminist but still like it, it

7:11

raises two other questions. Are we using the

7:14

movie as a springboard to really have a

7:16

discussion about women and power and culture or

7:18

are we using it as a test that

7:20

the movie either passes or it fails and

7:23

then if it fails, the movie is a

7:25

failure. How much wiggle room is there as

7:27

well? Sarkeesian makes several great, really nuanced points and

7:29

I'm sure we'll come back to a few more

7:31

of them in her Twitter timeline.

7:34

I probably agree with more of what she

7:36

has to say than disagree but

7:38

when she says it isn't feminist, it

7:41

makes me think that there's almost this checklist

7:43

for art and the movie either

7:45

checks those boxes however many there are or it

7:48

doesn't check the boxes and if

7:50

it doesn't check all of them, can we

7:52

still appreciate what it's doing versus what it

7:54

isn't doing. Let's put a movie like

7:56

Fury Road in the context of the other Mad Max films.

7:59

In Both of them, I. Think we can

8:01

pretty much say blanket statement. All.

8:03

The women are peripheral characters at best.

8:05

Some of them are sort of sexual

8:07

side kick studies, scavengers, these gangs out

8:09

there, or in the first. Mad Max

8:11

is basically a helpless spouse. Yeah, and

8:13

a helpless mom. serious one woman warrior

8:16

in the road warrior. but she doesn't

8:18

get a league that of time there

8:20

you'll have to say it's token. Yes,

8:22

she's peripheral at best. So we go

8:24

from that and that goes back to

8:26

question. A few weeks ago we think

8:28

about The Breakfast Club in the ending

8:30

of that movie where I throughout the

8:32

question is something. That isn't. Feminist.

8:35

Than anti feminist. And I don't think you

8:37

could call either of the first to Mad

8:40

Max movies feminist. but is that then make

8:42

them not feminist. You put that

8:44

in contrast to this movie which as you

8:46

set up not only has their and and

8:48

her. Character. In the lead

8:50

she really is not just a cool lead

8:53

see I think is the main character of

8:55

the Still my agree You have the whole

8:57

plot based around these women no longer wanting

8:59

to be objects and searching for a way

9:02

out of the system of oppression. And then

9:04

not only that you get the added layer

9:06

of i don't think I'm spoiling anything some

9:09

other female characters they encounter along the way

9:11

and their whole heritage and the legacy of

9:13

that and their potential future together. As.

9:16

Women and as a society, that's a far

9:18

cry from anything we saw in the first

9:20

two Mad Max movies, and more than what

9:22

we see in most Hollywood action movie. So.

9:24

Is. That then not enough. or is it

9:27

enough to still give this movie some

9:29

points for what Miller is trying to

9:31

accomplish. I think it depends on who's

9:33

asking the question rights and I should

9:35

say I didn't get a chance to

9:37

revisit Beyond Thunder don't leading up to

9:39

this, so I I can't say how

9:41

that might play into this tradition or

9:43

non tradition of the franchise, but it

9:45

absolutely depends on who's asking the question,

9:47

what you're looking for in a film

9:49

and you and I are both coming

9:51

at it as movie people first and

9:53

bore, let's say as text oriented. film

9:56

lovers not someone from

9:58

feminists film theory or

10:00

any sort of political film theory or any

10:02

sort of ideology. And if

10:04

you are looking at the film through that

10:06

lens first, you may be holding it up

10:08

to standards and saying, because I'm aware of

10:10

this, I like to call attention to these

10:12

what are important concerns. This is why I

10:14

like reading people who have this perspective on

10:16

films. That's what you're going to draw upon. I'm

10:19

just a boy watching

10:22

a movie, hoping it does right by

10:24

its girl. That's where I

10:27

come at films as far as from

10:29

a feminist concern. I don't like to

10:32

see movies that are treating women in

10:35

a sexist way, certainly a misogynist

10:38

way. And as the movies have

10:40

evolved, I think we have higher

10:42

expectations for how they treat female

10:45

characters or portray female characters. And

10:47

from that perspective, I will say

10:50

that I was pleasantly surprised to

10:52

find that Hardy does

10:54

get pushed aside. And we

10:57

get this really intriguing alternate story

10:59

within the Mad Max world, true

11:01

to the Mad Max world, and

11:04

what it looks like, what it feels like,

11:06

what's at risk. But from

11:09

a different perspective, as you noted, within

11:11

the context of the franchise. I

11:13

wrote about this as a movie to

11:15

me of Milk and Blood. And it

11:18

really does add that other

11:20

nourishing, clearly female element to

11:22

it that gives us a

11:24

whole other view on this

11:26

post-apocalyptic world. Just the fact

11:29

that this warlord, this Immortan

11:31

Joe, the way he

11:33

treats bodies in general as commodities.

11:35

So for many of the men,

11:37

prisoners like Max, it means they're living blood

11:39

bags. He's tied to the Nicholas Holt character,

11:42

the soldier, by a chain and a tube

11:44

because he's feeding him his blood to keep

11:46

this guy going. That's horrifying. And

11:48

at the same time, he not only has these women

11:50

who are breeders, but he has another group of women

11:53

Who are being forced by machine to produce

11:55

breast milk. This is also a commodity that,

11:58

from what I could tell, he traded. It's

12:00

with other warlords and the way

12:02

that Reef framed this society that

12:04

spend built that's arisen from the

12:06

ashes of our world. Emphasize to

12:08

me the terror of it in

12:10

the cruelty other and exploitation of

12:13

it's. so whether or not that

12:15

defines the movie as feminists you

12:17

and I are probably we don't

12:19

have the credentials to answer. That's

12:21

a whether or not it made

12:23

it a very interesting woman focused

12:25

picture for me that I don't

12:27

see very often in action films.

12:29

Certainly. A did and it's perhaps the

12:32

main thing that I appreciated about it

12:34

when of thirties and tweets was sometimes

12:36

violence may be necessary for liberation from

12:38

oppression but it's always tragic Fury Road

12:40

frames that as totally fun and awesome

12:42

and other with one of more provocative

12:45

ideas. I mean it really made me

12:47

think about the movie and what I

12:49

appreciated the most about it. I think

12:51

this brings us back to that furious

12:53

a character and what we can see

12:56

in her be on just being someone

12:58

who's as tough as the boys. Basically,

13:00

what more is there? I think See

13:02

not only is the lead character in

13:05

the film see the much more compelling

13:07

hero who certainly has a more heroic

13:09

endeavor and I think that makes her

13:11

a more interesting figure to follow. She

13:14

certainly also has a more emotional arc

13:16

in the movie where we watch what

13:18

her character goes through as she discovers.

13:21

Things. About her past and things about her

13:23

present and her future. I think that's all

13:25

importance, but I think I do disagree with

13:27

Sarkisian on that point. As much as look,

13:30

we're going to talk about the filmmaking a

13:32

little bit, we're going to talk about the

13:34

chaos of it's and or use that word

13:36

thrill Again, There is certainly a thrill in

13:38

seeing car chases and extended car chases done

13:40

right mom the big screen there is without

13:43

a doubt, but. I. didn't find

13:45

overall fury road to be just totally

13:47

find an awesome use words like terror

13:49

and cruelty and a little bit of

13:51

a different context but nevertheless i was

13:53

thinking about those words as i was

13:55

watching these car chases the car chase

13:58

and this movie really is that It

14:00

is them trying to get from one

14:02

point to another and then back

14:04

again. They pause, catch their breath, turn around.

14:06

There are some pauses. I love that. But

14:09

that's it. And that could

14:11

be all very entertaining. But

14:13

Josh, for me, it really is all

14:15

about, of course, the stakes. It wouldn't

14:17

be compelling to watch if I wasn't

14:20

thinking about how I was invested in

14:22

these characters and what the characters are

14:24

up against, truly. Not only along the

14:27

way as they're going through this car

14:29

chase, but what they're trying to accomplish.

14:31

What this means for these women as

14:34

they risk their lives in this way. What

14:36

it means for society as they risk their

14:38

lives in this way. Yes,

14:40

there was something entertaining, as I've said,

14:42

but at the same time, I wasn't

14:44

watching it just marveling in

14:47

all of the explosions. That's just not

14:49

how I appreciate action movies.

14:51

It just isn't. So, I wasn't reveling

14:53

sort of in all of the chaos

14:55

so much as I was appreciating the

14:57

craft of the filmmaking, which we'll talk

14:59

about. But I really was caught up

15:01

in everything Miller had set up in

15:03

terms of the ultimate

15:06

goal of these women and what happens if

15:08

they fail. That's why it's

15:10

intense. Intense in a good way

15:12

and intense in, as I mentioned, kind of an

15:14

excruciating way at times because you know what's at

15:17

stake. Theron is the reason the

15:19

film never struck me

15:21

as being something that was fun and

15:23

awesome about its violence. Hardy, who I

15:25

do think is good here, he gets

15:27

sidelined, but I think he's good. He

15:30

has a desperation to it that really

15:32

registers. But he is also the stoic

15:35

road warrior we don't learn that

15:37

much about except for in flashbacks.

15:39

He's fairly traditional in his performance.

16:00

someone else because she does get some of those badass guy

16:02

scenes. Not entirely. There's a

16:04

lot more to her performance than that.

16:06

She gets a few, but those either

16:08

have this sense of, if not regret,

16:11

just again of hurt behind them. Now

16:13

I don't know if you can call

16:15

that feminine. That would probably get us

16:18

in trouble to call it that, but

16:20

there is certainly something distinct about how

16:22

Theron delivers this action heroine to the

16:25

way many of our male action stars

16:27

presented in which you don't

16:29

want to show that you've been hurt. You

16:32

want to keep up that facade

16:34

of toughness. Interestingly, one exception that comes to

16:36

mind is Bruce Willis in Die Hard. And

16:38

when we did our Sacred Cow review, I

16:40

think we talked about how you sensed that this

16:43

guy was really in pain. And

16:45

that, I think, is a good

16:47

comparison to how we have an attachment

16:49

to people who are able to communicate

16:51

that on screen. Another female action character

16:53

that came to mind to me in

16:56

comparison to Furiosa is Merida from Brave.

16:58

One of the things that I liked

17:00

about that Pixar film was it did

17:03

move us beyond the see

17:05

girls can fight too. We had that

17:07

for a while, particularly in kids films

17:09

and in some princess films, is

17:12

with Mulan. And now we're going to show that

17:14

they have agency and they can be in battle.

17:16

And I think that was an important step to

17:18

take. But what I liked about Brave is it

17:20

moved beyond that even though she was an archer,

17:23

she was also a sewer. And

17:25

the climax of Brave beautifully weaves those

17:27

two things in where there is a

17:29

whether you want to call one masculine

17:31

and one feminine, there are two different

17:33

qualities to her that come together. And

17:35

I think Furiosa has that sense too

17:37

because there are the action

17:40

qualities that we've seen so many times

17:42

before that she pulls off very well.

17:44

But there are also these other distinct

17:46

touches that to me made

17:48

everything that happened in the film more felt.

18:00

This is the best shot I'll ever have. And,

18:03

um... They're

18:06

looking for hope. What

18:09

about you? Redemption.

18:18

I'm so with you. That really was the way

18:20

to put it. That palpable sense of hurt. That's

18:22

what I was getting at in terms of saying

18:24

she's really the more compelling hero in this story

18:26

and has the more emotional arc. And that is

18:28

the counter to this notion that the violence here

18:30

doesn't have a tragic element to it. It's

18:32

precisely tragic because of not only, as I

18:34

was saying, what we believe to be at

18:37

stake, but because of what Charlize Theron imbues

18:39

in that performance. And the fact that Miller

18:41

takes moments out from the action

18:43

to pause so we take extra notice

18:45

of those tragic moments. But let's get

18:47

to the visual style of this film

18:50

a little bit. I did

18:52

just catch up with Mad Max and

18:54

also The Road Warrior. And

18:57

it's striking to me, especially from the

18:59

first film to the second film, the jump Miller makes.

19:01

Huge leap. Visually. I

19:04

know there are people who love the first one, but it's... I

19:07

know, and I'm not one of them. Okay, good. I was starting

19:09

to feel alone. I mean, you can see the vision and you

19:11

can see hints of the craft, but that jump is

19:13

astounding. It is. The shot compositions,

19:15

the framing, the editing, just understanding

19:17

how to tell a story economically.

19:20

It's all there in The Road Warrior, and it's not there in Mad

19:22

Max. I mean, it's a cult film

19:24

for a reason. It's got some really nice touches.

19:27

As you said, the vision is there, but he

19:29

hasn't figured out how to tell a story economically

19:31

yet and tell it with the camera. And

19:33

what I do love about The Road Warrior

19:35

is seeing that stripped down, no-nonsense quality to

19:37

Road Warrior that is really appealing to me.

19:39

And here, even with this film, as we

19:41

touched on, there are ebbs and flows

19:44

in the pacing and intensity. It isn't just wall-to-wall

19:46

action, even though it does maybe feel like that

19:48

at times. But especially with The

19:50

Road Warrior and now this film, you

19:52

could certainly make the case that they

19:54

could work as silent movies. And I

19:56

think that is a credit to Miller.

19:58

They're obviously very accurate. driven, but

20:00

everything you need to know in terms

20:03

of story and emotion and character is

20:05

conveyed through the camera and just the

20:07

setup of shots and we can sit

20:10

here and dissect some of those shots,

20:12

but really for me it was watching

20:14

the way he piled layers upon layers

20:17

onto these extended chase sequences in Fury Road.

20:19

And Josh I know you do like this

20:22

phrase Zen Chaos which first came up during

20:24

the Furious 7 review. This to me seemed

20:27

to be a symphony of chaos that

20:29

Miller was orchestrating. You sort of start

20:32

the tanker truck rumbling down

20:34

the road. It's like the percussion and then

20:36

you add in the bikes and the cars

20:38

in pursuit. Maybe they're the woodwinds on top

20:40

and then the brass starts crashing as the

20:42

makeshift bombs are thrown and explode and then

20:45

those strings come in as you get the

20:47

pole vaulters. I just love watching those pole

20:49

vaulters, whatever you want to call them, as

20:51

they're trying to attack the vehicle. And

20:54

yes, the symphony also has its own

20:56

heavy metal guitar shredding to kick it

20:58

all up a notch. With a flame. With

21:00

a flame and performing in front of that

21:03

big amp which maybe we can talk about

21:05

that quality to this film and this series

21:07

as well. That kind of do it yourself

21:09

feel about it that I really do appreciate,

21:12

but Miller really does here conduct the symphony.

21:14

Yeah, that is perfect because he also holds

21:16

it all in proper tension. It's not that

21:18

one thing gives, like you were saying, it's

21:21

not that one thing gives way to the

21:23

next. They're all together and

21:25

nothing, this raises the intensity of

21:27

these scenes too, is that they

21:29

don't defeat one challenge and

21:32

then they're faced with another one. That's

21:34

not why it feels like this constant

21:37

assault on these characters. It's that these challenges

21:39

keep building. So they're thinking, okay, we've got

21:41

to deal with these guys

21:43

throwing flame bombs at

21:45

us. Wait a bit, now what's this with

21:48

these poles? Now it's like something new every

21:50

second and yet we never lose sight of

21:52

those other things that have been happening before.

21:54

So it really is beautifully

21:57

orchestrated and talk about a silent

21:59

film. pole sequence

22:01

where the guys are on the very end. I'm

22:03

sure just about everyone has seen this in the

22:05

trailer, but maybe you don't get a sense in

22:07

the trailer of why they're there. Essentially

22:09

these poles are on the front of the

22:11

approaching cars so that they can lean over

22:13

towards Furiosa's truck and get on it. And

22:16

so they're going back and forth. And by

22:18

the time Max finds himself at the end

22:20

of one of these poles, it reminded me

22:22

of a Buster Keaton-style film. It had that

22:25

choreographed acrobatic quality to it. But of course

22:27

what's going on around you is something out

22:29

of maybe Lord of the Rings. So it's

22:31

just this crazy combination of styles.

22:33

And that I think gets to

22:35

the guitarist that you're talking about.

22:38

That should be a laughable moment. But for some

22:40

reason, and this has been a through line from

22:42

the very first film, that's why I'm talking about

22:45

the vision of this theatrical

22:47

sense of villainy. And

22:50

music plays a part of that. Another movie I

22:52

think of when I watched the Mad Max films

22:54

is Rocky Horror Picture Show. Why should that come

22:56

to mind? There's a horror

22:59

element, too. There's a horror element. And

23:01

there's maybe not quite a

23:03

camp element, but in the costume

23:05

design and the fact that

23:08

the Rocky Horror Picture Show is scary, I

23:10

should know. No, no, but I know what

23:12

you mean, horror comedy. And I think it's

23:14

that these insane feral

23:17

bad guys are having

23:20

fun. They've been waiting

23:22

for this excuse to be let loose

23:24

and chase somebody down. Because I have

23:26

a feeling the guy on the guitar

23:28

truck, he's not sitting in the cave

23:30

playing that. He's got to wait until

23:33

he gets let loose. He's unleashed. Just

23:35

to perform. To perform. And this

23:38

is their shot. And that somehow makes

23:40

them scarier because there's a motivation beyond

23:42

the levels of they're doing what their

23:44

boss wants or they need this gas

23:46

back or these women back. They're just

23:48

going to kill you because it's fun. And

23:51

there's something very scary about that. Yeah, the

23:53

Keaton comparison is perfect. And I think that

23:55

also fits nicely with what you were saying

23:57

about that theatricality and where I was going

24:00

with that kind of thing. of do-it-yourself aesthetic

24:02

to the film. You're right. That guitarist is

24:04

absurdly hilarious and yet it somehow works within

24:06

the larger scheme of this movie and I

24:09

would say this whole series because it is

24:11

about, and I'm gonna go back a little

24:13

bit to our review last week of Slow

24:15

West and one of the things we praised

24:18

with that movie, it's all about survival. So

24:20

there's a certain practical aspect and the films

24:22

are similar in that they're about characters journeying

24:24

across a similar type of wasteland and there

24:27

are scavengers out there and outlaws out to

24:29

try to take everything you've got maybe

24:31

even your life too. But in

24:33

Road Warrior I think about the

24:36

gate that they have set up

24:38

to keep out the marauding bad

24:40

guys. Well you don't know

24:42

that right? Until they move it. You look

24:45

at it, it's this big metal facade and

24:47

you're instantly fooled by it and you think

24:49

somehow out in the middle of this desert

24:51

they've constructed this oil rig and they've also

24:53

created this gate that keeps out the bad

24:56

guys and then you realize no it's just

24:58

the side of a bus. That's

25:00

fantastic and the guitarist as we've said

25:02

here where that could be and certainly

25:04

in the grand scheme of things is

25:06

non-diegetic music that someone is adding over

25:08

the top but Miller makes it seem

25:10

like it's diegetic and that it's coming

25:12

from inside the movie world so as

25:14

things get more and more intense we

25:16

cut back to that guitar player. He's

25:18

in sync with the action. He's completely

25:20

in sync and it seems like it's

25:22

emanating from him and something about that

25:25

just makes it seem I don't

25:27

know that lack of CGI, that authenticity to

25:29

it that you really feel it somehow does

25:32

imbue it with a little bit more of

25:34

a visceral response. It provokes more of a

25:36

visceral response at least it did in me.

25:38

Even the idea as you said of

25:40

Mad Max being early in the film

25:42

a blood bag. Taking another human being

25:44

and saying well if I'm gonna have

25:46

a sort of blood transfusion and I'm

25:49

gonna be able to exist

25:51

in this world yeah it may mean I have

25:53

to lug around another human being who's just gonna

25:55

drip blood into me. Yeah there's so matter-of-fact about

25:57

it. Yeah I love that. Which makes it which

25:59

makes it that terrifying too. But it leads me

26:01

to a question. Now this didn't bother me, but

26:03

I could see from what I could tell, and

26:05

things are moving so quickly, that, you know,

26:08

narrative is not always the first concern.

26:10

I never got a sense of why

26:12

there seemed to be this sickness that

26:14

was pervading some of these soldiers down

26:16

here, why he needed the blood back.

26:18

There were also touches with Max. He

26:21

has these flashbacks to a

26:24

child that it's our impression is he wasn't

26:26

able to save this child. We never get

26:28

the backstory of that unless we're

26:30

to assume it's from the road warrior. But I don't

26:33

know if that's... No, and I was gonna say maybe

26:35

it's because it's from Thunderdome. Maybe it's from Thunderdome. I

26:37

meant to try to look that up. I saw and

26:39

it's been so long since I've watched it, I don't

26:41

remember. So that could be the case. We also don't

26:44

get a lot of Furiosa's backstory

26:46

in terms of she mentions

26:48

at one point she's seeking redemption. I never

26:50

quite got the sense exactly what she meant

26:52

by that. I know her connection to where

26:54

they eventually end up. So

26:58

partially you could say those were things that

27:00

needed to be filled in. But I have

27:02

to be honest, I didn't feel

27:04

like I needed that. There was something that

27:06

I'd like about some of this world being

27:08

a mystery to. And I think it gave

27:10

me a sense of immediacy and a sense

27:13

of in the moment. Whereas if I was

27:15

dropped into this world, I wouldn't

27:17

know why the heck these guys are sick

27:19

and need human blood bags. Or

27:21

why they spray gray stuff on their lips.

27:23

Or whatever. So

27:26

rather than it feeling like holes in the plot,

27:28

to me it just felt it added a mystery

27:30

and a sense of immediacy. There are a

27:32

few other things that I did think about

27:35

which maybe helped me back from using the

27:37

M word that some people have been using,

27:39

masterpiece. I couldn't quite go that

27:41

far. And there is a

27:43

bit of a reliance on CGI

27:46

here that I wish

27:48

they'd been able to do away with

27:50

entirely. Now some of that I couldn't

27:52

tell when they were using CGI. And

27:54

that's brilliant. Some of the background imagery,

27:56

green screen Use I could tell. And

27:58

I Thought that sandstorm. Sequence was

28:00

really weakened by it and I

28:02

want to sell route. Official Added

28:05

approach was okay because you could

28:07

see the trucks and you could

28:09

see the sand com in and

28:11

there was some sense of the

28:13

world. but when it envelops damn

28:15

suddenly we are in Cg I

28:17

land and there's an unfortunate caught

28:19

that emphasizes that I thoughts. After

28:21

the chaos we get this extreme

28:23

close up of Max buried in

28:25

sand and very slowly monstrous leads

28:27

emerges and the grains like the

28:29

individual drains. We could see on the screen

28:31

and it is just so the opposite of

28:33

the Cg I say and pixels we had

28:36

just been immersed in. that. It was kind

28:38

of like here. here's bad: Santa Cruz Young

28:40

Really good cinematic sand. Yes, I wish they'd

28:42

been able to stay away from that. I'm

28:44

with you on that front though. For me

28:46

the big thing was some of those storytelling

28:48

issues and I didn't have a problem with

28:50

Furious as Baxter. I thought they gave me

28:52

just enough. And overall I agree with you

28:54

though just that I love the fact that

28:56

they just throw us into this world and

28:58

sites catch up. I was. Thinking about do the

29:01

first twenty or twenty five minutes of this film.

29:03

What the reaction of studio execs must be

29:05

to this movie Because I know it wasn't

29:07

the number one movie at the box office

29:10

this weekend, but it did well. He performed

29:12

very well and so you sit around you

29:14

go well we don't have really. A

29:16

bankable star in Tom Hardy. I mean,

29:18

he's not right on cruise And then

29:20

there's so much going on in the

29:22

first activists movies that we don't really

29:24

understand the language. They're using, the vocabulary,

29:26

some of their rituals and traditions and

29:28

it doesn't spend any time giving you

29:30

be exposition that I think a lot

29:32

of Hollywood movies would say. Well, the

29:34

audience is gonna be lost. Rising, We

29:36

all were lost. but lost in an

29:38

exciting way. As you said, the gives

29:40

it a little bit more urgency and

29:42

immediacy. That all said, I. Too

29:44

was scratching my head at times wondering

29:46

okay, could I've used as a little

29:49

bit more information about why this character

29:51

the leader is so driven to breed

29:53

with these women in creates a new

29:55

race of people? Is it just because

29:57

he's trying to create a better. class

30:00

of people in some way, but

30:02

what is it about these children that

30:04

would be perfect and everyone else isn't?

30:07

There were enough of those little

30:09

plot things along the way that had

30:12

me distracted at times. Another one would

30:14

be, and actually I think this would

30:16

fit in with the anti-feminist argument to

30:18

this film, is that it gives this

30:20

one woman way too much

30:22

power to transform the Nicholas Hole character. I really

30:24

like him here too. Yeah, I was wondering if

30:26

you were going to bring that up. Well, you

30:28

can't help but watch this scene where he finally

30:31

has one scene where he basically gets caressed by

30:33

a woman and she talks to him like a

30:35

human being very soothingly and all of a sudden

30:37

this savage has been tamed and has been completely

30:39

transformed and is now on their side. Now, I

30:41

still love how Miller played

30:44

out that character. The end

30:46

that he gets is exactly the end that

30:48

that character should get in the film regardless

30:50

of sort of what side he's on, good

30:52

or bad. I love that aspect, but in

30:55

terms of how quickly he just kind of

30:57

becomes one of the gang, that didn't make

30:59

sense after everything we'd seen before it. I'm

31:01

completely with you on that. I loved that

31:04

they kept him. He didn't get

31:06

cast away when we initially think

31:08

he did, but that turn doesn't

31:10

make sense. Maybe it was almost

31:13

as if there's another scene or

31:15

two in which they've known each

31:17

other, the whole character

31:19

and this woman who comes to

31:21

really be attached to him, that

31:23

they had a relationship back in

31:25

the cave or wherever they live.

31:28

That would make a lot of sense if we had just

31:30

gotten some sense of that, why it would pay off later

31:32

in the film as it does. He's

31:35

a great character and the way

31:37

Miller uses him, he's an instrument in your

31:39

symphony. He's one of those elements that are

31:41

always doing something independent

31:43

of the pursuers and our

31:46

heroes. He's like this third

31:49

factor you have to consider. I'll have to think

31:51

about what instrument he would be in this. He's

31:53

almost like a clinging symbol every time he finally

31:55

does show up. One last point I wanted to

31:58

make about the film, something that I do. did

32:00

like on a political front, though

32:02

not political and maybe the way we were

32:04

initially talking about. I wouldn't say this movie

32:07

is political or it's trying to make any

32:09

real statements about how power is

32:11

wielded, but it still gets it right in

32:13

terms of its presentation of power and how

32:16

it works certainly to subjugate people. Because

32:19

Miller shows us all the machinations behind

32:21

the scenes of the society that the

32:23

great Immortan Joe has created. I liked

32:25

it better when I didn't know his

32:27

name. I'm sorry. It's not

32:29

intimidating. But they're kept hidden. They're

32:31

inside. They're away from the people.

32:34

And they literally are machinations, right? It's not

32:36

just political maneuvering that's going on, but this

32:38

whole system only works because of all the

32:40

pulleys and all these things. He lives above

32:42

this plateau. That's where he lives and all

32:44

the people are below. So right, the pulleys

32:46

bring him up. That's it. And

32:48

it all has to move in sync with each

32:50

other to work. And that touch that Miller gives

32:53

us early in the film where our introduction to

32:55

him is not seeing him in all his glory

32:57

as this intimidating figure that people will die for.

32:59

People can't wait to die for him. He

33:02

shows us what it takes to prepare him, not

33:04

for battle, but just to get out of his

33:06

chair and speak to his subjects. He's

33:09

Vader-like. He's alien as well. Yeah, he's like

33:11

Darth Vader. He really is held together by

33:13

spare parts. He is more machined than human.

33:16

And by seeing that fallibility that the people,

33:18

of course, don't see, but we as viewers

33:20

do, I think it does raise the stakes

33:22

a little bit because it doesn't make him

33:24

a sympathetic villain. I wouldn't

33:26

argue that. But the fallibility makes him maybe a

33:28

little bit less of a monster. We can see

33:31

him and see how he's suffering and comprehend

33:33

his desire to... His desperation. Yeah, his desperation,

33:35

exactly, to breed healthy children. And so those

33:37

chase scenes, again, those battle scenes, they're imbued

33:40

with that desperation, with his motivation. It's not

33:42

just about the fact that he was betrayed

33:44

by Furiosa and he wants to catch her.

33:46

It's not just that he really likes these

33:49

slave lives he has. It's that his future

33:51

and his family's future is on the line.

33:53

Miller takes the time to show us that.

33:55

I think that's very much an underlying concern

33:58

of the film and... lot

34:00

of times in post-apocalyptic genre films,

34:02

we get this question of how

34:04

is society going to rebuild itself?

34:07

And this film, as the other Mad Max

34:10

movies have done, suggests that, well, the way

34:12

that's been chosen by this guy is

34:15

manipulation, exploitation, fear. Those are

34:17

the tools he's going to use,

34:19

and this is the society he

34:21

has built. Now, Furiosa is

34:23

pursuing an alternative, and she's

34:25

chosen these women to help her

34:28

found that, and she's fallen

34:30

in with Max, just happenstance,

34:32

and will maybe let him help them

34:35

found the society. And the society she's

34:37

looking to build is one on the

34:39

action she takes. Self-sacrifice,

34:41

caring for others first, allowing

34:44

hope. Equality. Equality.

34:47

And so, you know, maybe

34:49

those aren't, I would hope those aren't strictly

34:51

feminine qualities, but this is a movie that's

34:54

kind of put it in that context, and

34:57

I think it works amazingly well. Thank

35:29

you.