0:00

I have started watching, so I was

0:03

telling Jake that how it's

0:05

made in its entirety is all on

0:07

HBO Max now. Is the show called

0:10

How It's Made in its entirety or

0:12

are you watching a show called How

0:14

It's Made but you're watching it in

0:16

its entirety? The latter, because

0:18

there's like 20 something seasons of

0:20

just watching how things are made. Holy

0:22

fuck. Boomers rejoice. Me rejoice! That's

0:25

right. That's right.

0:27

But no, I've started like I need

0:29

to, I've kind of realized that I need some kind of wind

0:32

down TV, so I've also started to

0:34

watch history

0:36

documentaries. Nice. You

0:39

are definitely aging before our eyes. Patient.

0:43

It's the snake gift, the old snake gift. No,

0:48

I was telling Jake, because did you

0:50

know Caligula is not

0:52

actually called Caligula? That's not

0:54

his name. What's he called? He's

0:56

called like Guy, it was a Gias Caesar

0:58

Augustus Germanicus. Oh yeah, yeah, sure. But do

1:01

you know what Caligula means? No. It

1:04

means like small boots, like little boogies. Small, small boobs.

1:07

Small boogies. Small boots. Small, oh

1:10

okay right, I heard boots or boobs and I'm

1:12

like small boobs. All right, fair enough. No.

1:15

Okay, so he has small feet. No,

1:17

I can't remember why. Okay. That's

1:20

it. Probably

1:24

should have held that piece of information

1:26

in your head. When he was a

1:28

kid and he was going around and all the legionnaires saw him

1:30

and he had the small shoes and they just called him like

1:32

little shoes. They called

1:34

the presumptive emperor,

1:37

they made fun of him. Legionnaires made fun of the

1:40

presumptive. Maybe it was with love. That's a ballsy move.

1:42

Maybe it was with love. Maybe it

1:44

was. Did you not have like a little

1:46

nickname when you were a kid? Yes,

1:49

my grandfather called me moon

1:52

face because

1:54

I had a big round face and I still kind

1:56

of do. So, but I was

1:58

picturing the guy. The moon thing. Thank

2:01

you very much. No, no I

2:05

got called that's right. That's

2:07

good. I had Jake the snake which

2:09

was cool But then Jake

2:11

from State Farm came out and now everybody

2:14

this day. I'm at Starbucks like Jake from

2:16

State Farm. Oh shut up Your

2:19

creative genius never run it on you. They

2:21

write it on the cup. Yeah, that's happened

2:23

and I like just It's

2:26

fine. You know what people are trying to be

2:28

like not everybody's a comedian. They're trying so it's

2:30

fine But I'm just make was

2:32

way cooler. That is cool They

2:35

think they're saying it in a negative

2:37

way. No, it's the wrestling

2:39

Jake the snake Roberts Oh, I know that

2:41

yeah, what's the snake gang from fallout? What

2:43

were they called snakes? I don't think right

2:45

the tunnel snakes. Yeah Thanks,

2:47

right. They've done a sex rule Yeah Actually

2:51

did unironically rule those like much respect to them

2:53

like whatever whatever happened to them rest in peace

2:56

Because it couldn't have been anything good. Yeah, I was

2:59

Baldy locks. Oh That's

3:01

because you had no hair Yeah,

3:05

also really the the the

3:07

double whammy is the fact that my sister's blonde

3:09

so she's Goldilocks and I was baldy. Oh, oh

3:11

no Pretty

3:14

brutal that's like oh, yeah, that's gonna

3:16

give you some complexes like

3:18

multiple complex Did

3:24

you say that thing where like Prince

3:26

William or whatever was made like 24th Sweet

3:34

that was like does the word sexy

3:36

means something different in the UK

3:39

like chips versus fries How

3:43

are we using this word at this point? Here's

3:46

Morgan on there as well as being like number Jeremy

3:51

Clarkson was named number

3:53

one. I Mean

3:56

yeah, okay. What do you say to

3:59

that list? What do you? What do you say to

4:01

that list at that point? I mean, clearly

4:03

they're going for something that's not really that

4:05

same definition as everybody else. You know what

4:07

I mean? I mean, okay,

4:09

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was a

4:11

poll that was conducted

4:14

by married dating site, Illicit

4:16

Encounters. Oh, so it's one of

4:18

those? This is like that time when we

4:20

host, when we like, cited a survey from

4:22

like casino.com or whatever that was just like

4:25

total nonsense. Top favorite protagonist in video games

4:27

from casino.com or something. That's right. Oh

4:29

my God. So we

4:31

really deserve what we get, what we cite

4:33

sources like that. I'm sorry, Baldi locks. That's

4:36

okay. I will never call you that again. You

4:39

know what? Let's work that into the thumbnail, I reckon, the

4:41

title, I reckon. I can laugh about it now, but

4:43

a few years ago I did have alopecia. Which

4:48

is not a laughing matter. Well, no,

4:50

it's not a laughing matter, but I have to cope

4:52

through humor. And I had like stress

4:54

and used alopecia. And when I had like this

4:56

little thing of hair, like a bunch

4:59

of hair missing in the back, I was like, no

5:01

one tell my dad cause I

5:03

don't want to be Baldi locks ever again. No, for

5:05

sure. But it's okay, it's all back. Good.

5:08

Good. Very nice. Very

5:11

nice. Very nice. Very nice. Very

5:13

nice. Very nice. Very nice.

5:15

Anyway, hi everyone. Welcome to, uh,

5:19

friends for a second. I was trying to think of some.

5:21

Yeah, what is it? Yeah. Episode 47, 46.

5:23

Episode 47, 46. Episode 47, 46. Episode 47,

5:25

46. Yeah,

5:29

we're getting ready for summer game fest.

5:32

We're all going to be out in LA in person

5:36

again. Another one of those.

5:38

It's going to be fun. It's a really stacked,

5:41

I haven't really spoken about this on my own

5:43

channel yet, but it's a really stacked couple of

5:45

days. Like I have four straight days, essentially back

5:47

to back bookings. Oh yeah. Of,

5:49

um, mainly hands-on. Like there's

5:51

some showcases and like one or two hands-off

5:53

demos, but like mainly it's just playable stuff.

5:56

And there's a lot more than last year, actually. I'm not sure

5:58

if you guys feel this way. I

6:03

had to turn away quite not quite a bit of stuff, but

6:05

definitely some stuff that I would have liked to have had room

6:07

for. So I'm not sure what

6:09

that means as an overall indicator of industry success

6:12

or health versus the fact that

6:14

well, now that everyone knows that some

6:16

games exist, publishers are on board with

6:18

it. There's no E3

6:20

lingering in the background, potentially whatever. Publishers

6:23

are like, okay, some games says what it is. Okay.

6:26

And they've kind of gotten ready for it in advance and

6:28

they're ready for it. And so there's quite a bit and

6:30

I definitely expect that you'll see, yeah, there's

6:32

some cool surprises coming. I can say that

6:34

already. And I'm

6:36

really excited about quite a few things that we're going to

6:38

get to play. So it's going to be rad. I

6:41

don't have as much hands on time as

6:43

you guys, because I'm doing obviously game slot

6:45

commitments, giant bomb stuff. Yeah.

6:48

At one point someone from our work was like, Hey,

6:50

can you go on this podcast during Summer Game Fest?

6:53

And I was like, no, no,

6:55

but thank you for asking. But

6:59

I'm getting to talk to some fun people. I'm

7:01

getting to the games that I'm booked in to

7:03

see. I'm very, very excited

7:05

about. But

7:07

the thing is, is that like my hosting stuff is

7:09

up until the Sunday night. So everything I've got to

7:11

basically try and cram everything in on the Monday, which

7:14

is, you know, the last day of

7:16

the convention is famously the best day of the

7:18

convention to go see everything because no one's tired

7:20

and everyone is still wearing to go. And also

7:22

the presenters don't give a fuck at that point. They're

7:24

like, yeah, whatever. Here's the controller. You're like, what do

7:26

I do? They'll at least just figure it out. Okay.

7:30

I just want to go. Can I film this screen as

7:32

I play to like do whatever you like? I

7:36

just want to see Day of the Devs. That's my big

7:38

thing. Okay. Yeah. One of my favorite stuff every year.

7:40

So for people who don't, what is Day of the Devs?

7:43

So Day of the Dev is now it's now it's a

7:45

nonprofit. It was founded

7:47

by Double Fine and I am 8-bit. And

7:50

it's basically a they

7:53

get a bunch of indie devs to submit games

7:55

that are then vetted and then they're put on

7:58

in showcases where people can like. go

8:00

and actually play them. There is like

8:02

they do like in

8:05

San Francisco because that's where Double Sign is from.

8:07

They like rent out a theater. They just did

8:09

one at MoMA over GDC and they have

8:12

these big cool showcases like in person during the

8:14

day that people can go to and then at

8:16

nighttime they did like this cool show on stage

8:18

which is awesome but like typically that's my favorite

8:21

thing from every Summer Game Fest

8:23

has been a day of the Devs. It's

8:25

just that it's like where the weird cool

8:28

stuff is. For

8:30

sure. Yep. If you don't have

8:33

that appointment I would recommend that

8:35

you do. I'm excited

8:37

for Summer Game Fest just because it feels

8:39

different than E3 at least for me. It's

8:41

like the workload is there but it's like

8:43

the way everything is laid out it's very

8:45

different. It feels like a college campus where

8:47

you're like walking around with your backpack and

8:49

everybody's got their backpacks and you see people

8:51

you know but like there's room to like

8:53

stop and have a cup of coffee and

8:55

like you know check up on your notes

8:57

and like get your shit together

9:00

or film or something and it's

9:02

it's cool. I didn't

9:04

realize. I agree. Yeah and

9:06

it's also like I didn't realize it like was an

9:08

extra day because I think in my head it's like

9:10

oh it's Friday, it's Sunday but yeah now it goes

9:12

until the Monday. Yeah the whole thing is expanding like

9:14

it's like another day I think it's like a bigger

9:17

space I don't know for sure but yeah

9:19

it's like I mean that cool campus where they have it

9:21

it's sort of like they I don't

9:23

know like they're unlocking a bit every

9:25

year like it just kind of

9:28

gradually is growing. Yeah true it does seem

9:30

like they're growing. You're right it is like

9:32

the base upgrades over time. Jeff Keighley's leveling

9:34

it up. Yeah

9:37

no I look it's a really great time and

9:39

yeah right I think that point about pace is

9:41

really good because I think you

9:43

know E3 is this crazy or

9:45

was I should say recipes. It's

9:48

just insane event, two massive halls,

9:50

everyone is there there's a billion

9:52

bookings. It's so much right and

9:54

I think that also comes through

9:56

in your Coverage which feels quite breathless.

9:58

You know, because it's like. Have

10:00

some us to churn through. It's really hard

10:02

to like, sit with things and co just

10:04

like really play something you're on the fourth

10:06

floor playthings Israel because like so much like

10:08

this could call funny of noise around you

10:11

all the time and this fifty people behind

10:13

you it's it's hard to kind of like

10:15

sit there and really sit with a game

10:17

and play it in Indiana. Just give it

10:19

your full attention. Whores yes I'm against is

10:21

smaller, more intimate, it's less crazy and so

10:23

it does. I find result in better hands

10:26

on sessions and I've always lived. I've liked

10:28

it for that reason I'm was embargo Miss.

10:30

As well. Like I think for people out there

10:32

listening to the it is gonna be like almost

10:34

staggered like this can be things only play as

10:37

I'm against us and we can immediately be like

10:39

this was cool but then a lot of jones

10:41

have embargo so it's like everybody can go to

10:43

the event play. These things come to have prepare.

10:46

Coverage talking and again if I sat. Dot.

10:48

Result in better coverage like it really does, because

10:50

we can actually think about it rather just like

10:53

boiling out the first in the comes into our

10:55

brain. And you know, than. clicking. Published

10:57

so yeah like do in Shelf were

10:59

ready. What's up Guys to me Jackie

11:01

I have no one is sixteen. I'm

11:04

the I'm I'm currently working from whole

11:06

want a whole to and and saw

11:08

I'm on Minute Twenty five me that

11:10

I'm nearly at the end like a

11:13

fucking hallway other. I'm gonna get

11:15

as close as the the use a question

11:17

I picked out I thought was gonna made

11:19

and this segment that i think it's actually

11:21

can be quite additives other end of that

11:23

contract. difference to second account is is some

11:25

easy for easy for on. Try:

11:27

Aglow Guy the cool side. My husband's.

11:30

Ah this have to get to know us better

11:32

That's all will set you straight away that it

11:34

and cool is not the right word out without

11:36

leap listening and you'll see like to see. Of

11:40

with the three. The. Almost everything comes to games

11:42

and a sister from reviews to tastes so it's

11:44

pretty awesome the podcast together for the fun of

11:46

gaming and games and stuff and even sometimes took

11:48

like cool nettie stuff that isn't gaming. And.

11:51

Then even within like a really nice like complementary

11:53

all of us and thank you but it's it's

11:55

lungs I'm gonna cut it that ain't is really

11:57

nice things. I gave his percent and. Anyway,

12:00

question is, as people engaging in the space of

12:02

gaming media, do you guys feel like you miss

12:04

E3, or rather those really

12:06

cool press conference events? Personally, it was a

12:08

personal dream of mine to one day go

12:10

to E3, but sadly as it fell apart

12:13

and more companies instead opted to do video

12:15

direct and such. While I still like watching

12:17

the live streams, I miss those cool press

12:19

conference moments that would give you chills because

12:21

of a really cool reveal or gate of

12:23

a trailer or gameplay, or even just the

12:26

way they presented things to a live audience,

12:28

like having Keanu come out for cyberpunk. Yeah,

12:33

I mean, look, I've definitely said this multiple

12:35

times, but like E3 was amazing, incredible. It

12:38

will be, there's so much cynicism towards it, but I really

12:41

believe every year that goes past, it will be remembered more

12:43

and more fondly. People are like, Oh, I wish we could

12:45

go back to that like 10 years from now. The

12:48

nostalgia goggles will be very strong. But

12:50

having been there multiple times, it was incredible. It

12:52

was also a life goal of mine to go

12:54

to E3. I remember watching when I was a

12:56

kid and I just dreamed about the opportunity. And

12:58

when I finally got to go, it would just

13:00

felt unreal and it delivered on every one of

13:02

my expectations. It's not one of those things where you get

13:04

there and you're like, nah, it's all right, I guess you

13:06

get there and you're like, fuck man, it's better than I

13:09

could have imagined as a crow. I never want to leave.

13:11

Except you do want to leave because you're exhausted. But yeah,

13:14

it was amazing. And not just the showcases, which

13:16

were wonderful and it was so good, especially the

13:18

Sony ones. No one put on a show like

13:20

Sony at those events with this big old theater

13:23

hall and live choir in

13:25

front of you. Just so

13:27

much shit was incredible. And

13:29

so yeah, we don't have that anymore, which is

13:31

a bummer. And I definitely miss it. And I

13:33

will never be convinced that E3,

13:36

that Summer Games first is a downgrade. Sorry,

13:39

I will never be convinced that Summer Games first is not a

13:41

downgrade. It's nice in its own way, don't get me wrong. Definitely

13:45

some different for sure. But net,

13:47

if you would ask me, which gun to have,

13:49

which has got to be, I'm like E3

13:51

every time, baby. No question at all. Like, what's an

13:53

all E3 was amazing.

13:56

And it's a shame that

13:58

it's gone for sure. The

14:00

i mean he three have the sexiness you

14:02

know I have like the glitz and had

14:04

the excitement at how all that have had.

14:07

The the legendary status and it's it's.

14:09

like as much as we had a

14:11

lot of those moments as memorable moments

14:13

where you have chills and who that

14:15

big announcement when they did that in

14:17

the curtain came up or whatever. Those

14:19

are great. But. Equally. At.

14:21

It was kind of fun to like laugh

14:24

at the cheesy stuff. I mean as it,

14:26

there's always like the Koreans compilation of the

14:28

stuff like that, right? But. Other

14:30

of is kind of funny like it was

14:32

always funny to see like both ends of.

14:35

The. Top end of the gaming industry where it's

14:37

lights were spending all his money. Look how cool

14:39

this is an earth like we're spending all his

14:42

money look out of touch of goofy We are

14:44

her fifth year senior. Respect.

14:46

To that I miss a lot. Assessing allies will I eat

14:48

three in some games as that like very different

14:50

reasons I like some games as because it is.

14:53

More. Chill. it is. I.

14:56

Episode to work That so like just

14:58

in terms laws Ah yeah, it's still

15:00

packed, it is too busy and everything.

15:02

but it's not. You. Know pulling all

15:04

nighters ie. three style because everyone was

15:06

rushing to do the same. Thing.

15:09

And the same thing out but like Easter he had like.

15:13

Because I went I think eight times. Was.

15:15

Very. Very. Lucky I went law.

15:18

And. It was while just a

15:20

scale of it. Just. How league

15:23

those boots wear? And you know Two

15:25

K would always have like a massive.

15:28

Statue that they would make the spoken and we'll

15:30

our all around the world. A Nintendo would seem

15:32

that boost and then. The to

15:34

the booth cronin. Tenebrous. always. Read. That.

15:37

Were like half of a the half

15:39

of the one of those exhibition halls

15:41

as like me didn't sell the one

15:43

you will recall photo type Nintendo world

15:45

by Dennis honestly was so ridiculous out

15:48

and i remember seeing but the lines

15:50

for that as well to people to

15:52

play breath of the wild The line

15:54

stressful like three hours because the demo

15:56

that you could place was like the

15:58

entirety of the plus. Oh and they

16:01

wouldn't kick you off. Help you get,

16:03

just keep playing. Some people were there

16:05

for so long run. A cool thing about

16:07

working against thought during that time is because

16:09

we had a base. Which. Meant

16:11

only got to go in jeering load

16:14

out the kids we had exhibits a

16:16

bad fifth call. I'm so going in

16:18

the day before in seeing everything cause

16:20

they would cover in like plastic and

16:23

they would can reclaim his presence. Yeah

16:25

they would cover and like garbage bags

16:27

to make so that like com ah

16:30

logos didn't lake or game revealed itself.

16:32

but I remember going in early. And

16:35

I was at the Nintendo booze and

16:37

we were right next to it and

16:39

some very kind and Nintendo employees last

16:41

go and play stuff. Allele.

16:43

And. Fiscal two hundred in the

16:45

bathroom self? yes, suppose you are.

16:48

sponsoring. I I I met. That's how I met

16:50

me. A Motel. If. You're in the

16:52

card or he for his selecting only more

16:54

passive Having a random high fives to be

16:56

Rely on me about what's up everyone. Yup,

16:58

yup yup You get one, You get one

17:01

how you hey the one of our goes.

17:03

There really was like. I

17:06

went knowing nobody.

17:09

The. I when me covering everything is

17:11

a single person. I went running an

17:13

entire team. I've like done all of

17:15

the different angles of eatery and like

17:18

I've done it broke. I've done it

17:20

with virtually no money and me at

17:22

eatery being like I'm so hungry I

17:25

gotta find an old nerves somewhere. Ah

17:27

so it's like a very interesting little

17:29

light spot in career. Career.

17:31

Milestone. But I agree with Ralph where it's like

17:33

it is gonna be looked back as like man.

17:36

That. Was a thing. Know everything we

17:38

have. whether you were there, are whether

17:40

you're watching it on like chief or

17:42

whatever your equipment was. are you tube

17:44

there was it was cool and was

17:47

videogame Christmas Uma really taken off works.

17:49

For. Him. When. It's I mean

17:51

that Simone like I'm in the Uk submit like staying

17:53

up super super late. To. Orienting now.

17:57

The know I am likes to wait

17:59

it. Some. Again, first is growing

18:01

now. And it's not just find.

18:03

A chump us too much. Every year it

18:06

is still a manageable show. Yeah, it's got

18:08

some good shit I'm excited for this year.

18:11

I'm interested to see if like of of is

18:13

he just has been involved in he three. I

18:15

wonder if. He.

18:17

Would. Let. It get two

18:19

thirds the size and scope of either he or

18:21

she will keep it up more. Like can

18:23

find experience but as you know gradually lot more

18:25

more people and think the one thing that he

18:27

three had the like definitely missing at this point

18:29

like talking to some friends of mine who are

18:32

in like. The. Business side of things with

18:34

like he three with this business hub. And.

18:36

Some game for doesn't really offer the

18:38

same. Like there is no

18:40

real networking thing. Could be to

18:43

because. I. Could differ siege

18:45

of adding that are don't see him adding

18:47

like a consumer component because them to stick

18:49

a challenge to the scaling up of as

18:51

so gigantic in the risk involved but you

18:53

would have like a day like a whole

18:55

area devoted to networking and like admit with

18:57

program and whatever else I could definitely that

19:00

happening because the just savvy business dude like

19:02

he knows how to put those angles. I

19:04

think that would definitely. Make. A lot of

19:06

sense to him and his style. But

19:08

do I seem to a consumer stuff know

19:11

what are the same time like this other

19:13

consumer stuff right as this gave com you

19:15

i would school packs and is paksas you

19:17

know which are always great on on places

19:19

and out. One. Well.

19:21

I never my normal Nintendo or about

19:23

to do when in Sydney. actually you

19:26

know the end of the end of

19:28

August and family. Is that's the one

19:30

that was at Pax West last year.

19:32

Jesse's is the same or some. Of

19:34

Iowa go on the side. Like

19:37

though that says that having I'm

19:39

so pumped yeah under such as

19:41

like enemy. Experts had fan fest us

19:43

to and like yeah I kind of

19:45

like that. you know. You.

19:48

Are taking us needs your own hands. A little

19:50

bit that when it comes to assessing their platform

19:52

holder but I do miss. just be able to

19:54

like. Oh. god and and

19:56

no no good as playstation and you

19:58

know Those are good. They

20:01

were the best of times then with the blust of times Yeah,

20:07

what is that from the Simpsons okay

20:10

the type the monkeys were typewriting That's

20:15

deep in my brain Watching

20:19

the Simpsons again instead of oh,

20:21

that's a good idea to be honest The

20:23

Conan era well, that's the thing cuz every time when

20:26

all the Conan stuff was going around Yeah,

20:28

I was just posting like great Simpsons clips

20:31

and I would just watch them Yeah

20:35

Planet of the Apes musical bit which I saw doing the rounds

20:37

on Twitter the best Do

20:39

you guys see the new one yet you guys see the new? To

20:43

watch it. I actually have I've watched number one and

20:45

two, but I haven't watched three So I want to

20:47

do like the whole hell. Yeah. Hell yeah. I want

20:49

to talk about movies more later in the podcast We

20:53

can Furiosa chat. Oh, yeah,

20:55

cuz I'm gonna see it tomorrow, but I

20:57

have I we won't spoil any Yeah,

21:00

cool cool absolutely but even for thank

21:03

you for your question. Yeah, I guess

21:05

like in terms of this episode we've got Some

21:08

like game. Look there's a bunch of different stuff going

21:10

on It's kind of like a grab bag of news

21:13

cuz there isn't really one big thing dominating The

21:15

headlines unless something happens after we've

21:17

recorded this we're recording this Sorry,

21:21

no one do anything PlayStation will

21:23

have their showcase TBD

21:26

another if that's gonna be a big deal or not, but We'll

21:29

see. Yep Like

21:33

cod is officially coming to game pass. Yeah,

21:35

how about that? We I feel like we were just

21:37

talking about like is it gonna I don't know what's

21:39

gonna happen and here we are the next episode It's

21:43

official. I'm like really stunned. I never would have

21:45

guessed that they do I'm not guessed obviously, but

21:47

like I I would have bet big money against

21:49

them doing this so if anyone hasn't

21:51

heard the news, yes, the new card is black ops

21:53

6 and It's

21:56

gonna be on game pass day one. Like

21:58

It's just that's it. That's. That's what

22:00

they're doing. The thing that everyone was like,

22:02

will they a white? I like, they're doing

22:04

it arm and I would have bet very

22:06

big money again soon because there's just a

22:08

lot of revenue that you sacrifice. When.

22:10

You do this. Ah but I'd maybe it's

22:13

not because they see it as hey people

22:15

get a son of a gay pass and

22:17

they going to forget about it and rather

22:20

than giving us you know sixty or seventy

22:22

upfront dollars will get that money of i'm

22:24

a seven months I guess. Plus the micro

22:26

transactions that will happen when you get that

22:29

install base up and yada yada yada yada

22:31

know you know me. I'm like. Sorry.

22:33

I'm sorry didn't have you know that feels like

22:36

to me that feels like trying to build. My.

22:38

Cat like an online falling by just

22:40

doing giveaways. Whereas I

22:43

think mine I have a numbers

22:45

alpha build a whole real genuine

22:47

community. I don't know. Oh

22:50

my God. That is like you say that to

22:52

a group, like to a you tube or as

22:54

well like of. I know that that is how

22:56

you tube you. She was used to build victory.

22:58

Oh yeah that's a that way unless they used

23:00

to build that settles on the basis of Amazon

23:02

gift card giveaway. I see leave a comment below.

23:04

Ivo Law Rice. You. Write

23:06

actually Connor does a case. At.

23:09

This probably a bit harsh, but I think

23:11

I owe you saying that The general vicinity

23:13

yes. Yeah. Does it does.

23:15

He does it for me. personally.

23:17

it feels like. A. Bit of

23:19

a role like a loss. Rolled the

23:21

dice again. pass because. We've.

23:24

Heard about how much it's sort of plateaued

23:26

over the last as well. It's kind of

23:28

been two years, really flat and obviously Microsoft

23:30

first party offering on that has not been

23:32

great. and you can't really predict the third

23:35

party offering either. Like you can't reliably put

23:37

your game, pass my down and know exactly

23:39

what's common each month. the site was almost

23:41

like a lucky day, even Nine Air and

23:43

like power on. I'm sure that took them

23:46

by surprise. I later I got yeah, we

23:48

have. We have it on? Yes, yes, a

23:50

survey. So I mean it's like. Like.

23:53

Monologues. Yes, Metals is also on there

23:55

and still sold two million units by the way,

23:57

which is like insane that it's it's done that

23:59

well. A. But yeah, I mean. This

24:01

feels like they really want to get

24:04

game pass growing. this. There's.

24:06

No more powerful growth victor for

24:08

game pass than this. Video.

24:10

Game Other. Than. Putting

24:12

Grand Theft Auto Six on they on day

24:14

one which obviously not gonna happen on what

24:16

they would be no single better way to

24:18

grow game pass and to really test what are

24:21

the limits of it's growth potential they to

24:23

put this video game on a so. I

24:25

mean, I wouldn't have guessed they do it. But.

24:28

They are doing it and okay let's that's an

24:30

interesting experiment. I'm it's to do they how they

24:32

got you did a good job of explaining kind

24:34

of like when I was. Feeling but

24:36

did not. The intelligence use by I know

24:38

I mean I know exactly. It's like what

24:40

they they have tried everything they've built that.

24:42

They've. Added value to the subscription. Like

24:45

older games just a bunch of games

24:47

are they did the big that

24:49

you know quote unquote exclusive blockbusters for

24:51

game pass like a star field. Now

24:54

this is. The. Biggest thing

24:56

that they can do your i the only

24:58

other thing because the photo sex to that

25:00

like not happening So yeah yeah that is

25:02

interesting to see how this works. I hope

25:04

that. Black. Ass Six is

25:06

weird. like the first one cousin that would

25:09

make us all even funnier. or it's like

25:11

which dell here trippy? it's sts on here.

25:13

I don't know if it's gonna day but.

25:16

I recorded caught yelling. Hundred

25:18

cause a juggernaut line but later. What?

25:23

Realistically. What's.

25:25

The split between. Pc. Playstation

25:28

and X box. Play

25:30

onto the guess and this is total

25:32

guess. But I'm going to guess at

25:34

this point it's like sixty percent Playstation,

25:36

twenty percent exposed to the present Pc

25:38

as a total slap shot at our

25:41

have no allergies but like that's feels

25:43

about right given the overall contours of

25:45

the market of like game sales especially

25:47

called which is a console game as

25:49

it's like it's it's different console games

25:51

are and the called community moved over

25:53

the place in last generation after like

25:55

sorry basically like stitch that off with

25:58

all it's exclusive deals and whatever. So

26:01

I would not be, but there's still that holdover on

26:03

Xbox who played on Xbox, you know, like that American

26:05

audience who are really into it. And

26:07

so I definitely feel, if anything, it's maybe it's

26:09

like 60% PlayStation, 30% Xbox,

26:13

10% PC, you know, cause it's, again, it's just not

26:15

a PC game. Maybe

26:17

it was a different to that. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure. Um,

26:20

but yeah, so I think your question is, is obviously

26:22

along the lines of what are they actually sacrificing? Because

26:25

you're still going to get all those PlayStation sales. Of course.

26:27

They're also going to buy it at 60%. Let's

26:29

say. Um, and then you're still

26:31

going to get your, some of your Xbox and your PC people

26:33

who are going to pay for it regardless. Let's

26:36

say, you know, like, let's

26:38

say 50% of those consumers, um,

26:41

pay for it still. So maybe you've given up 20% of

26:44

your overall revenue base and

26:47

you're trading that for the potential of that ongoing

26:49

revenue and building up game pass over time, maybe

26:51

that's the broad man again. Totally. Especially because there's

26:53

one coming out the year after that. I

26:56

see the year after that. We

26:58

missed the year. We try to, we did

27:01

a weird gamble for one year. So let's

27:03

see what happens. Yeah. I'm just so interested

27:05

to see how it plays out for them. Cause it does

27:07

just feel like this. Yeah.

27:10

This, this grab to get people on game

27:13

path and like, I'm

27:15

really, really intrigued to see how it plays out. Cause

27:18

it does feel like it feels really

27:20

weird. Like it makes

27:22

all the sense in the world for them because

27:24

they own like cod. But I

27:27

don't know. Could you imagine if Diablo four and

27:29

obviously that release came after the acquisition or before

27:31

the acquisition, but it's like, if Diablo four just

27:33

launched on game pass, like

27:36

it eventually went there, right? But like, it

27:38

eventually went there. Yes, exactly. Day one. And

27:41

that was huge. That was huge for, for game four. I

27:43

don't know how big it was for game pass growth, but it was definitely a very

27:46

big shot in the arm for Diablo.

27:48

Like game pass immediately became the most

27:50

played Diablo four platform. They had a,

27:53

well, Microsoft, I should say like Microsoft

27:55

platform. Well, did you see the dead island thing

27:57

from the Embrace? No.

27:59

It's like. I have to figure

28:01

out how to find out the actual like numbers, but it was like

28:04

8 million through but like six

28:07

or seven of those million one game pass or something.

28:09

Oh The

28:12

game for it like I used to think

28:14

that game pass game was like a very

28:16

derogatory term and I Don't

28:19

know is it still but like there are games

28:21

that now I feel where I'm like. Oh, it's

28:23

really worth just kind of downloading

28:26

and playing for a few hours and seeing what's up

28:29

Yeah, and that's for

28:31

me personally I've always looked

28:33

at game pass and I've always It's

28:36

always that uncomfortably to me that new brand

28:38

new games would arrive day one on game

28:40

pass, right? I really like

28:43

like don't get me wrong. It's very good

28:45

for the consumer for sure, but I've always

28:48

wondered like Hmm. Is

28:50

that how this should be? Like is that

28:52

actually gonna be the best end result for

28:54

the overall sustainability of game

28:56

development and Studios

28:59

and whatever else. I don't

29:01

know for me. I think these services Should

29:04

be really great back catalogue Places

29:07

where after a games been out for a year plus

29:09

and then go on there and that's how you can

29:11

play your back catalogue cool But

29:13

the brand new stuff, I don't know.

29:15

I I don't like that idea I

29:17

know they're trying to condition consumers towards

29:19

this future Yeah, like but like

29:22

you look at Spotify right now like the music

29:24

industry is not better off because of Spotify You

29:26

know, it's just it's it's not I

29:29

will always bring up Netflix and the gray

29:31

man and how much money they spent on

29:33

that massive movie that I watched and it

29:35

Evaporated from my brain and everybody's brain Instantly

29:38

I watched the day. Hello. Yes Her

29:45

character's name is Atlas and The

29:48

movie is so forgettable that I couldn't remember what

29:50

it was called to put it in like a box

29:52

It's a lot great,

29:56

but shocking that film is

29:58

yeah, but anyway But like that's

30:00

the thing, you can make movies and

30:02

TV shows as content because the costs

30:05

for them are like

30:08

from okay, the

30:10

cost of making a triple A video game at this

30:12

point is insane versus you

30:14

can still make a TV show and

30:17

or a movie with a fairly

30:19

with a significantly reduced budget versus making a

30:21

triple A game. Obviously if you're making a

30:23

James Cameron movie, that's still huge, right? But

30:25

you can put together a small TV production

30:27

or a small movie or whatever at a

30:30

reasonable budget. But then there's

30:32

just a lot of content churn on those platforms. Like

30:34

you're not it's that old line of like they're not

30:36

really it's not art, it's content. And

30:38

I think video games

30:41

are kind of immune from it

30:43

becoming that because of the prohibitive

30:45

costs of game development. But

30:47

I do worry that consumers

30:49

expecting all this stuff day one for

30:52

$10. It's just not really sustainable

30:54

given the costs of that development.

30:57

So like, I don't know, I

30:59

I've always just it's always sat uncomfortably

31:01

for me. And I'm like, it

31:04

must be sustainable on some level, right? Because game

31:06

pass is profitable. That's what we're being told. We're

31:08

not we're not told it's making a loss. But

31:11

how much are developers sacrificing in order

31:13

to prop up that model? I don't

31:15

know the answers to that, right? Interestingly,

31:19

Edmund, a member of my team,

31:21

he reached out

31:24

to about

31:26

a dozen game makers to

31:28

ask them, like, how is you know, how

31:30

are you feeling about publishing your games on

31:32

Xbox? And one of the

31:34

things that came back from a few of

31:36

those developers was the idea that it's not

31:38

worth putting your game and they're smaller game

31:40

makers, by the way, double A and indie.

31:42

And they're like, it's not worth putting your

31:44

game on Xbox unless you have a game

31:46

pass deal. Because Xbox

31:50

consumers are essentially conditioned now to expect their

31:52

games on game pass. So if you're going

31:54

to port your game to Xbox and expect

31:56

to make your money back from sales alone,

31:58

it's not worth

32:00

it. So again, look

32:03

at how Xbox Microsoft has conditioned

32:06

those consumers. And sure, it's a smaller sample size.

32:08

Maybe other developers disagree with that. And that's fair

32:10

enough. But the ones that Edmund spoke to, that's

32:13

what came back. Interestingly, if you're interested to read that

32:15

whole thing that's on the Patreon right now, I'm not

32:17

sprugging the Patreon. It's free to everyone, by the way.

32:19

It's not behind a payroll. So just go and grab

32:21

it if you like. But really

32:23

fascinating insight about how Game Pass

32:26

has shaped consumer behavior, specifically to

32:28

the Xbox platform. To the

32:30

point where developers don't want

32:32

to port a game unless they get that

32:35

Game Pass deal to lock in their revenue.

32:37

I wonder what else. Because

32:39

you would get, I assume, a lump sum

32:42

for signing a game with Game Pass. But

32:45

I wonder what other benefits being

32:47

a part of that. Like, I was

32:49

reading the, if you don't read the Game

32:51

Discover Co. newsletter, it's fantastic.

32:53

I was reading the

32:56

Manalord one earlier today, and he was basically

32:58

saying that it was the

33:00

most wish-listed game on Steam. And then they signed

33:02

with the publisher super late because the guy who

33:04

made the game was just like, I don't want

33:06

to be replying to press emails. I don't want

33:09

to be emailing out keys. I don't want to

33:11

be doing tags on Steam. And so he

33:13

signed with the publisher specifically so that they could take

33:15

all that busy work. I do wonder if being part

33:17

of the Xbox Game Pass deal does

33:20

kind of give you a leg up in

33:22

terms of discoverability. Obviously, you get the, here,

33:24

the games come to Game Pass, like, blasts

33:26

and stuff. But I wonder if they

33:28

also kind of help you out in a little way, like,

33:30

in terms of visibility. Because that catalog,

33:32

as with all catalogs, like, Netflix,

33:36

PlayStation Plus, every single catalog now is

33:38

an absolute disaster. There's too

33:41

much stuff. It's not curated very

33:43

well. And so I wonder if you have

33:45

a pal at Xbox who's like, okay, I'll give you placement

33:47

on front page. Yeah,

33:50

I mean, that's a good point. I mean, well, at

33:53

the very, at the very least, you get a shout out

33:55

when you get added to the list. If you're, if you're

33:57

a game, you're out there, have that image of all of

34:00

games that are coming in that drop and

34:02

you get that upfront profiling. I think for

34:04

games that are multiplayer focused, it's a huge

34:06

leg up because a lot of the barriers

34:08

to entry for a game like Back 4

34:11

Blood, for example, which was not day one

34:13

game pass, as I recall. Outriders

34:15

was. Outriders was, right?

34:17

And so it's a co-op shooter and

34:20

you want to play that with your friends. And

34:22

so that kind of really makes a lot of

34:24

sense for game pass because yeah, then friends might

34:26

be willing to like spend 10 bucks and have

34:28

a crack at something just cause rather than having

34:30

to spend $70 on it, you know? So

34:34

I definitely see that providing a lot of

34:36

amplification opportunity on that, on that front. Um,

34:39

other than that, yeah, I, I

34:42

don't know. I mean, most of the developers

34:44

that I've heard from speak positively about, that's

34:46

the thing, musicians

34:49

fucking hate Spotify. They rag on it endlessly.

34:51

They hate it, right? But game developers don't

34:53

really complain about game pass that much or

34:55

publishers don't complain about it that much. Like

34:58

they might say the margins have been shrunk

35:00

a little lately or whatever, but they don't

35:02

really whinge about it. I found, I don't

35:04

see a lot of negative sentiment. So

35:06

my guess is on balance, they view

35:08

it positively, you know? I wonder

35:11

if that depends on how big you scale

35:13

to though. Like if you

35:15

are an indie and this is kind of like a

35:17

guaranteed success because you are getting that lump sum, you're

35:19

getting like visibility and whatever. I think if you get

35:21

past, like I wouldn't necessarily,

35:23

like I wouldn't call outright as a success. Like

35:26

they did. Hell no. I don't think that money's

35:28

that game is actually profitable to this point, like

35:30

all these years later. So, um,

35:32

so it's more like a scalable issue

35:34

in terms of where the game pass is worth it

35:37

for you as a developer. Yeah.

35:39

And then of course, there's the outliers where you

35:41

have like a breakout hit and it doesn't, you

35:44

know, I

35:46

found myself just as a consumer, just

35:49

enjoying game pass more when I

35:51

see a game going viral or like some creative

35:53

indie game and I go, oh, and then I look

35:55

and I go, Oh, it's on game pass. Nice. Almost

35:59

incentivizing me. giving me that little kick

36:01

out the door to like really go and play it because it's

36:03

right there. Is there? So

36:05

you know how on streaming services like I don't

36:07

want to have to scroll through everything along to

36:10

see if the movie that I want

36:12

to watch is on there. There was an app called Just

36:14

Watch. You just type in what you want to watch

36:16

it tells you where it's streaming. Do

36:18

we have that for PlayStation

36:21

Epic Games? Sounds like a good business idea. No

36:23

one's taking it. Yeah,

36:27

but why I do think it's kind of interesting

36:29

that we've had these services for a while now.

36:35

Okay, from the developers that

36:37

Edmund spoke to whatever they sort of said audiences

36:39

are being conditioned to only to want

36:41

their games from game pass. Okay,

36:44

Sony though has their

36:46

PS Plus and extra tiers and whatever

36:48

else. Ubisoft have

36:50

their subscription platform as does

36:52

EA. I try to give

36:55

any other. I think they're the

36:57

only ones Ubisoft kind of has one. Didn't you?

37:02

In game pass ultimate. It is only

37:04

when like the games become like have been out

37:06

for a while. It goes into their second tier

37:08

and the second tier is in game pass. Yes.

37:10

And with Ubisoft in there too. I

37:14

actually think it might be at this point. Yes, I think

37:16

but I think it's the same deal where they have like

37:18

a premium tier whatever. But my

37:20

point overall is that like with the music

37:22

industry, all of us would have

37:24

like a Spotify account, right? All of us

37:26

listen to music on Spotify. That's how we do it. That's

37:28

how we get all that music and everyone I think that

37:30

is how the entire industry has moved over to that. It

37:33

doesn't really feel quite the same with video games.

37:36

And I don't feel like it's it's

37:39

not tending toward that either. I don't

37:41

know. I just feel like the video

37:44

game ownership idea is still has been

37:46

surprisingly resilient, but I can see it

37:48

for casual audiences. Absolutely. Almost

37:50

Like again to bring it back to

37:52

movies, where now a lot of people

37:55

who go to movies here and there

37:57

now only go when Avengers four is

37:59

in. The. Or her throat it

38:01

and I see you know especially talking

38:03

about how you heard from developers the

38:05

were there. The players are conditioned to

38:07

have stuff on game past so I

38:09

all I almost I can see a

38:11

future just knowing some casual players were.

38:14

Seventy dollars is already a tough sell

38:16

for a game so I see a

38:18

lot of them only going out one

38:20

it's like oh okay New Madden. Are.

38:22

Auto. A Grand Theft Auto. Like something that they

38:25

note like the heavy hitter that they plunked down

38:27

for right? so I can. I could really like

38:29

a Like The Law larger Jack The you know

38:31

that. The. One that we don't talk about

38:33

a lot. Like the casual people. Show.

38:35

That kind of going that way. Yeah

38:38

I guess so. This deftly possible. I

38:40

I think it's what is like also a

38:42

different. Mindset.

38:45

Around like sales because like video games can

38:47

be really heavily discounted really often young so

38:49

that the lead people to wait for sale

38:51

and then there will grab a game for

38:53

five by as go to a coolness vs

38:55

like a movie you don't see a movie

38:57

for south five bucks in a been deliver

38:59

the care like you know because each step

39:01

really by physical movie that he will I

39:03

do by the way I love them helier

39:05

the most people don't you know and dumb.

39:07

Of. This the I didn't think anything conditions

39:10

devalued movies in a different way though because

39:12

it'll be out in theaters and then I

39:14

can wait three weeks to a month and

39:16

it'll be. I know it's so bad too

39:18

much on tic tac. Yeah. And

39:21

thousand nine hundred club and

39:23

ninety different clear someone uploaded.

39:25

The entirety of challenges to to at

39:27

the other day like the hold on.

39:30

And all the arab a june gonna

39:32

blow to do to got uploaded exact

39:34

same way with some really good. That

39:36

was when the the the Gif game

39:38

began. I was like finally get to

39:40

watch Megalopolis via Instagram. Surprise! apparently it's

39:42

so bad I don't like a lie

39:44

back in on on way I don't

39:46

know cause I'll do the. Person.

39:50

That. I. Are Alpes? Oh yeah

39:52

in every theater. During. And

39:54

I like mouth. Know. What is his I

39:56

was in and then we You can explain it. You can find a

39:58

better. There's a point in the cell. Where is

40:00

Adam Driver character? I gotta. Talk.

40:04

To. A person and then at the screening they've

40:06

been having, they had an actual person come out

40:08

and started when the screen and look up at

40:10

Addison's. But they were like no way.

40:12

I hope it's like an Amc employee

40:15

says like best some shitty Okajima ships

40:17

they are for cobbler smoking too much

40:19

weight and his trailer be less discipline

40:21

or be a good idea surface. Mine

40:25

are you So. Very They have

40:27

a solid like. Everything I think is sold Everything

40:29

Yeah, Kevin Costner did a few to make like

40:31

a cowboy. Movies make like four of them. Pass

40:34

yeah that's right Exactly after like

40:36

making a decade's worth of cowboys

40:38

shows now is making the subway

40:41

moving on to make my own

40:43

or it may not. have heard

40:45

on the Hudson and says how

40:47

as point is again pass ah

40:49

dinner is it's it's such a

40:51

complex based not benoit really predict

40:53

how it's gonna go ah again

40:55

I would never have predicted. That.

40:57

Dame that Colombian day by day one. But

41:00

it is and so you know it's it's.

41:03

Things. Are Happening. I don't know

41:05

if it's gonna be net good on that.

41:07

bad for the industry right? I just I.

41:09

But my overall concern is that if you

41:11

are can disney what he says to not

41:13

want to buy these extremely expensive games are

41:15

you expect him to get a foot Ten

41:18

bucks? Brand new one day one and like

41:20

doesn't sound quite right. You

41:22

know, and then I did. You might

41:24

end up to getting like Netflix an

41:26

Atlas. Taylor's Atlas is really what that

41:28

means. But maybe we'll get you know,

41:31

the one good thing that Netflix has given us

41:33

is a really good variety of really trashy. Tv

41:35

shows. Like love is

41:38

blind slow and I viral hey my

41:40

every once in awhile something will pop

41:42

up and it's like what is is

41:44

crazy thing on Netflix. I get Tessa

41:46

yeah exactly sitting he comfort of us

41:48

green and that did he did. The

41:51

depths is covered nineteen out. Of assists

41:53

in thing to. Drop the I'm in Boston

41:55

for that. He seems like a good guy,

41:57

right? and on my Nexus is not a

41:59

wholesome thousand. My impression from him so

42:01

I was in a like in jail

42:03

for being like a criminal murder manner.

42:05

such a little I don't really remember

42:08

remember like a whole point of it

42:10

is how much of a piece of

42:12

shit this guy and his an Ssd

42:14

added that beach towel or something. Like

42:18

that Pete Carroll bask in custody traffic

42:20

little geek dragon on. God

42:23

or was so funny though

42:25

that is move city. As I

42:27

see the game pass. Ah

42:30

of the last episode we had done

42:32

that he's ninja theory and to would

42:34

help lead to whatever L Blade when

42:36

it comes to the was always and

42:38

Play in Blood a mean. Those

42:40

little the scuttlebutt about how long is

42:42

I feel like that. Strange

42:45

because they did outright say how long

42:47

it was gonna be. Before.

42:50

The game came. Yeah, but I feel

42:52

like. But. Sat wasn't really about how

42:54

long the game is because I think that's.

42:57

That's. Almost. I like their varies but my the

42:59

are all that well as a Schiano. no no

43:01

no no no no blizzard. I'm onto it out

43:03

cause but I mean that's the low hanging fruit.

43:05

I like the know I've always been doing scrolling

43:07

twitter Good luck to have to keep up with

43:09

a to to said the news right. Sir

43:12

like you can ignore that stuff because the

43:14

like okay obviously when of as the argument

43:16

that dame to sword is too simplistic and

43:19

argued yeah. But. The argument

43:21

that like okay you've got this five hour

43:23

day but what have you done within like

43:25

would have you actually provided in that five

43:28

hours That was the more interesting conversation and

43:30

I have not played held by to so

43:32

I cannot comment. However, I have watched a

43:34

number of reviews from people that I trust

43:36

and respect and many of them basically kind

43:39

of said that like. They. Did not

43:41

use or five hours particularly well. sorta like

43:43

because I'm implies a path both. We played

43:45

it a plan to check and our. Okay,

43:48

See press. You've done the press forward as a

43:50

phone. a lot of for for an hour say.

43:53

Test. I once you finish it

43:55

because I really enjoyed the Says How

43:58

Blades. And. As really excited for this game. It

44:00

looks incredible. Like I'm

44:02

genuinely kind of astounded at how good

44:04

it looks at sometimes. But the

44:07

moment to moment gameplay,

44:09

what I am doing and how I am

44:11

interacting with the game is feel. It's

44:16

not ideal. It's not

44:18

compelling to me. It's not giving me

44:20

a satisfying loop of... I'm

44:24

interested to see how combat goes because they

44:26

said they completely rebuilt combat and I was

44:28

like, I don't know. Jake's

44:31

face says it all. I was just

44:33

mashing one button and then occasionally

44:35

blocking and parrying

44:37

even rather than blocking. But

44:41

yeah, I don't know. The thing is, Hellblade for

44:43

me was always about the story and I'm interested

44:45

to see how it's gone from a very introspective...

44:49

Oh no, Jake's face. No, I

44:52

think there's still something that people can take away from the story. I

44:55

think ultimately, you can't judge game based on

44:57

what it's trying to do. I

45:01

respect what it's trying to do, but ultimately

45:03

it's in the execution. And I really respect

45:05

the way that Ninja Theory have been trying

45:07

to talk about mental

45:09

health and have the

45:11

experience of psychosis and how they try

45:13

to be very authentic when it's come

45:15

to putting that in. And

45:18

I respect them a hell of a lot for that.

45:21

But if the

45:23

rest of it's not great, I don't

45:25

know. For me, the whole five

45:27

hour thing or whatever, for me, I finish in

45:29

like five and a half hours. It's

45:32

a pacing thing. For me, it

45:34

went down feeling like... And

45:38

I ultimately, I was glad I played it and

45:40

I still recommend people who play the first one

45:42

play it. There's not

45:44

too much time investment, so give it a shot. You might like

45:46

the story. But for me, it was

45:49

a matter of pacing and how

45:51

the game felt like all of

45:53

the lower points from the original

45:55

game, where the moments where you're really

45:57

not doing much, you're just walking, you're looking

45:59

at the game. listening to a little something, you're

46:02

in a cave. That to me felt

46:04

like a significant portion of this game. And

46:07

it was like the

46:09

way it was structured, it was like halfway through,

46:11

I'm like, oh, this is the part where you're in a cave.

46:14

Every game, every movie, there's a part where the character's

46:16

in the cave, it goes on a little too long.

46:19

But here, it went on too long, and then it

46:21

was like a significant third of the

46:23

game. And I was like, oh. So the

46:25

way it all kind of panned out, it led to

46:28

me loving five-hour

46:30

games, but with this one

46:32

feeling distinctly unfulfilled

46:36

from the story not quite hitting me, but also from

46:39

a lack of my

46:41

input, my agency in anything. Because

46:43

I love a walking simulator type game.

46:46

I've defended games where you barely do anything in

46:48

them. But here, it just,

46:52

it was not enough. It was less than the first

46:54

game. And that was not what I was looking for.

46:58

I went in looking not for Hellblade II to

47:00

become open world or like this big RPG or

47:02

anything like that, but to give me

47:04

a little more agency, find exciting new ways to

47:06

kind of keep things going forward.

47:09

And it didn't quite do that. So

47:11

was there anything other than the visuals that you felt

47:13

as though this game advanced and

47:15

was an improvement on the first game? Having,

47:20

no. Okay.

47:26

No, not for me personally, no. Yeah, and I

47:28

think a number of the reviewers that I follow

47:30

and trust actually say exactly the same thing. They're

47:32

like, there's no part of this that is any

47:34

better. So I wonder like

47:36

how that happens because you've

47:39

got a studio before this that made Hellblade,

47:41

which for its time was quite, once

47:45

like cutting edge, but like, it was very

47:48

competent for what it was doing. And it had

47:50

some very strong ideas that presented very strongly and got

47:52

a great reception from people. And

47:55

then that studio was acquired by Microsoft and

47:57

listening to the interview with Dom last week, talking

48:00

about how like all these extra

48:02

resources they had and all this extra time doing

48:04

motion capture stuff and you get the feeling that

48:06

this studio kind of scaled up significantly and had

48:08

a lot more resources at their disposal. Where do

48:12

you think they would have how

48:14

did that how do you reconcile that like

48:16

how do you reconcile this studio being bigger

48:18

having more money and more time to work

48:21

on this game but then ending up with

48:23

a product that feels like it's a step

48:25

backwards versus the previous offering. It had to

48:27

have gone into some production

48:29

stuff because in the

48:32

original game you fought faceless creatures

48:35

and in this game you square off against a

48:37

couple like real dudes and especially

48:40

like right at the start like after you're

48:42

going through the beach in that early part

48:44

you fight like a guy that looks like

48:47

a real guy and he emotes he

48:49

will shout at you he will look at you

48:52

his animations will transition beautifully if he's like pointing

48:54

at you and taunting at you and then you

48:56

swing at him you'll see him pivot a

48:58

lot of that stuff is like pretty stunning

49:00

and that's kind of the only thing

49:03

I took away where that was the only

49:05

moment where I was like wow should have

49:07

been stepped up you know I didn't see

49:09

it from an environment like

49:12

a layout design visually combat

49:16

yeah combat a whole other thing man if

49:18

we're gonna go into it it's

49:21

more visceral but

49:24

it's it's it's lessened so

49:26

you're only fighting enemies one-on-one

49:29

now that was in the first

49:31

one too right so the first one there'd

49:33

be a couple of guys and usually we do get

49:35

audio cues where it was like look out got your

49:37

left behind you now you're only

49:40

ever squaring off one-on-one which kind of

49:42

is good because it helps that deliberate

49:44

nature of a combat that the game

49:46

has it's about strike parry strike parry

49:48

back and forth but

49:51

it led to it being kind

49:53

of predictable and how the

49:55

game would transition to you like you'd kill one

49:58

guy okay a little thing will happen like

50:01

an enemy will reach out from out of

50:03

frame and push you and then all of

50:05

a sudden you're facing another way and you're

50:07

Fighting another person and after a while that

50:09

got so like predictable and rinse and repeat

50:12

It was it was kind of a disappointment and

50:14

it was weird The only thing I

50:16

really liked that they added to

50:18

the combat is more projectiles More

50:20

enemies throw things at you in the first

50:22

game only a boss. I believe threw things

50:24

at you but now dudes will have little

50:26

like throwing axes that they'll throw at

50:29

you and you can do like the Aragorn like

50:31

playing like With the

50:33

arrow and it's very cool to pull

50:35

off. But uh, yeah little moments like

50:37

that photo photo mode and some

50:40

moments in the story That

50:42

I I thought were pretty cool. I just I

50:44

didn't get a big takeaway like I did with

50:46

the first one ultimately Yeah, that's it Mmm

50:50

long long rambling way of saying no

50:52

not as good as it first. I

50:54

also was never I

50:57

don't know the first one for me. I was like that was great

50:59

I don't need another one the

51:01

game left off on being like we can tell

51:03

more stories, but I was like man This is

51:06

a really good Open-shut

51:08

thing. So with this one, it's

51:12

a Senua who has already gone through Harlan

51:15

back and learned about herself

51:18

and like jumped in this point in her

51:20

life. So They

51:22

try and do a little more of that But

51:24

then also they introduce other characters a

51:26

lot of other characters for a short game and

51:29

for me They didn't really have quite enough

51:31

time to really

51:34

Flesh out all of those characters and why they're

51:36

important and why they're coming on the journey with

51:38

you It almost feels like you meet one person

51:40

you complete their thing and then it's like, okay,

51:42

come along for the ride But like what did

51:44

they really bring? That's where

51:47

I just felt what I ended to

51:49

go back to when I say unfulfilled. I Really

51:52

just feel like the game needed more time Like

51:54

it just I could have used

51:56

like, you know another two hours or so just to

51:58

really flesh things out because

52:00

it ended and I didn't take away too much from

52:02

it. I think other people might.

52:04

I don't know. But for me, it didn't. Do

52:07

you think that ending was abrupt because of like

52:10

production challenges and like we need to ship this. We

52:12

just got to cut it. Like, could you see that

52:14

there was like loose threads that weren't tied up or

52:16

are you just like, no, this is the ending they

52:18

imagined that it just wasn't very good. Like the surprise.

52:21

The ending comes a little quick, but it does try

52:23

to say something. It does do a whole thing. But

52:28

yeah, some of the characters, those like ensemble characters

52:30

that come with you, I just wish two

52:34

of them, I was like, why were you here? What were you doing?

52:36

Like, you know, and it felt like they had a little

52:39

more. So yeah, yeah.

52:42

Yeah, I think, okay,

52:45

this is an awkward point to make. So just

52:47

bear with me. Okay. Right. So

52:51

like, we have no idea how

52:54

video games are made, right? As people

52:56

who just talk about them all day, we have so

52:58

little. We have the vaguest of ideas, right? To

53:02

me, and I think a video game

53:04

like Hellblade is really emblematic of, or

53:06

really highlights to me my own ignorance. Cause I'm

53:08

like, you

53:11

know, like I look at something like these massive

53:13

games that are put together, expansive

53:16

open world games or whatever else. And

53:19

they have team sizes vary obviously

53:21

for sure, but they take like five

53:24

or six years to put together and that's that.

53:26

Then you've got something like Hellblade, which is like

53:28

a hundred people worked on this for six years

53:31

and it's a roughly five hour game that from

53:33

the sounds of it, it doesn't really seem to

53:36

advance mechanically over

53:38

the first one. You

53:41

know, it's a very linear experience. You don't need

53:43

to account for the player doing lots of different

53:45

things. It's not physics driven or

53:47

anything like that. It's a very sort of

53:49

prescripted, very linear, very narrative driven, mechanically

53:53

simple game that runs for five

53:55

hours. And so

53:57

my broad point, and that's not to say like,

53:59

what if. Ninja Theory been doing all this time.

54:01

Cause that's not the point. Like I've definitely been around

54:03

the block enough times to know my own ignorance in

54:05

this part, but this is part of my own ignorance

54:08

that I'm talking about here. It's kind of like, well,

54:11

what have they been doing? But also, and

54:13

then, but what have FromSoft been doing and

54:15

what have, you know, like spiders, the developers

54:17

who made Greed for those, them right? It

54:19

was spiders. Yeah, it was spiders. What were

54:21

they doing when they made their games? Like

54:23

what does it take to put together a

54:25

game and what is like the reasonable amount

54:27

of output you'd expect in terms of

54:29

like, I don't know. I don't

54:31

even, I kind of, I don't even know how to

54:33

talk about units in this. Is it hours played? Is

54:35

it number of levels created per week or what? I

54:38

don't know. Does my point make sense? It's

54:40

kind of like, cause I see, I guess the reason I'm

54:42

raising this is cause a lot of people do say like,

54:44

what the fuck have Ninja Theory been doing for five years?

54:46

But this is all they've, they've made. And I'm like, well,

54:49

there has to be an answer to that question. But

54:51

the truth is I don't know the answer to that

54:53

question. I don't believe that Ninja Theory was sitting around

54:55

on their ass doing nothing for five years, but I

54:57

can also, I also can't answer that question because

55:00

of my own ignorance of like not understanding

55:02

how games are fully made. Does my point

55:04

make sense at all? I hope I'm making

55:06

some broad sense. Yeah. So,

55:08

I don't know what it could be other than that's

55:10

like different engine, uh, new

55:13

advancements in motion capture technology. I don't

55:15

know. I'm

55:17

interested to have, I would be interested to have that conversation

55:19

in good faith. Yeah. Like,

55:22

so tell us Dom, who you met last week, like, okay,

55:24

so you worked on this game for five years. Like,

55:26

how was that five years spent? Uh, like,

55:28

tell us what it actually means to make a game

55:30

like this and why it takes five years to do

55:33

that versus, I don't know, whatever else that we play

55:35

that's, you know, three times as

55:37

long with like four times the amount of

55:39

content in inverted commas, um,

55:42

made by a similar team of people, but then I don't

55:44

know. Do you know what I'm saying? No, I do. And

55:47

I also wonder, I mean, we didn't really talk about it with Dom, but like,

55:49

I also wonder what the impact of

55:51

Tamim leaving was because he

55:53

wrote and directed the first game. And

55:56

so was there a meaningful shift and

55:58

like, you know, when he left Ninja Theory

56:00

and has it kind of plug the gaps in there, maybe

56:03

that's why the story is not

56:05

hitting as hard or whatever. And it's

56:07

like, obviously not buying into the order

56:10

stuff at all. You know, games made by

56:13

hundreds of people, 100 people in this case. But like, you

56:16

know, how does that impact production? How does

56:18

that impact what your original plan

56:20

was, the original goal of the game

56:22

was versus what ultimately was released? Yeah,

56:26

for sure. For sure. Yeah,

56:29

no, I definitely plan to play it at some point. Yeah,

56:32

I want to reiterate, too, like, because I spent a

56:34

lot of time like rambling about like what I don't

56:36

like. But ultimately, I was still

56:39

it was interesting how well it

56:41

just got right back into

56:43

it. Like I was like, OK, I'm once again in Senua's

56:46

shoes. I have the the 3D

56:48

audio. I have the same atmosphere. It feels

56:50

cool to be back in this world. So

56:54

it provided that for me. Those like five hours of

56:56

like being back in the world of a game I

56:58

really loved. And,

57:00

you know, again, some people might

57:02

find the story or really Senua's arc. And

57:04

it's hard to talk about it without spoiling things. But

57:06

like they might find that a little bit

57:09

more satisfying than I personally did. I don't know.

57:13

I'm yeah, I'm fed up of Greek gods.

57:15

I want I want Viking and Norse gods

57:18

back, baby. I know that's

57:20

because there aren't many games based on Viking and

57:22

Norse gods. I mean, there's not many of those.

57:24

There are real shortage of them, of course. Are

57:29

there any Viking games coming out anytime soon?

57:32

I don't think so. Valheim 2. Is

57:34

that a thing yet? Valheim 1 is not even

57:36

out yet, let's be real. We're

57:39

still waiting on Valheim 1 to finish up. So.

57:41

Just like Cersei's Creed Valhalla and God of

57:43

War. There could be more.

57:46

And Hellblade 2017. And Hellblade. And that's

57:48

it. And there's like a billion indie games based

57:50

on it as well. So.

57:55

All right, we've got one more thing in the news grab

57:57

bag that we're going to get to. But first a

57:59

word from. That was fun.

58:01

Hey, you

58:06

guys been rocking the Raycon lately

58:08

or what? Hell yeah. I got them right

58:11

here. These earbuds have been kicking ass. Can I say ass? Can

58:13

I say kickin ass? You're allowed to say ass. Am I? Ass.

58:17

I say ass though, not ass. Ass. Ass. Yeah,

58:20

come on. Say ass. Ass. Well,

58:24

Raycon has been kicking ass because they're

58:26

providing quality sound performance features

58:29

at about half the price of

58:31

other premium wireless audio brands. And

58:33

now their everyday earbuds are updated

58:36

with a new design. Case

58:38

is a little sleeker. It's got a

58:41

quick charge function, multi-point connectivity. So if

58:43

you want to have somebody else get

58:45

in on the action. It's got active

58:47

noise cancellation, something that the previous model

58:49

really needed. Yeah, that's a big upgrade.

58:51

Yeah. I mean, I thought

58:54

it still blocked out a fair amount of noise

58:56

in general, but yeah, active noise canceling is a

58:58

really nice step up for sure. I just like

59:00

having a pair of these good to go because

59:02

they have water resistance. They're like sweat resistance, stuff

59:04

like that. They're pretty durable. I wore

59:06

them this weekend while I was cleaning out

59:08

my gutters. That is probably the most boring

59:10

thing I've said on this podcast. But

59:13

as I cleaned out my gutters, one

59:16

of the Raycons popped out, landed in the

59:18

gutter filled with water and leaves. Brush

59:21

that sucker right off. No way. Pop

59:23

her right in. No problem. Wow. Well,

59:26

this is going to sound like bullshit, but it's

59:28

true though. But the Raycons actually don't pop out

59:30

of my ears. And that's actually why I wear

59:32

them because my ear shape is weird and I

59:35

have giant ears that everything else, like other earbuds

59:37

just fall out of. Like I literally

59:39

can't wear the Apple ones, for example, because they just

59:41

do not work in my ears. These

59:43

have all the little gel tips, so you can choose

59:46

which one to get that. Yeah, but

59:48

even like I found that even with ones that do

59:50

have selectable gel tips, it's like the shape of

59:52

the actual earbud just doesn't fit. But

59:54

these ones, the way they're like tucking, they're just really

59:56

solid and they just never fall out for me. And

59:58

that's actually one of the main reasons. that I use

1:00:00

my Raycons as much as I do. And I have a couple of

1:00:02

pairs as well, because I have like one in my gym bag and

1:00:04

I have one laying around my house. And

1:00:06

because they're not that expensive, it's

1:00:08

easy to get more than one set without feeling

1:00:11

like you're, you know, being

1:00:13

irresponsible. Yeah. Because yeah, I never like being without

1:00:15

a set of earbuds. Like when I'm out and

1:00:17

when I'm wherever, like I just want to have

1:00:19

that with me. Because I kind of need music

1:00:21

in my ears to do anything. Like if I

1:00:23

just have room sounds,

1:00:26

like the sounds of people around me, I'm like,

1:00:28

no, I can't think I can't function. I have

1:00:30

to block it out. Can't handle the sounds of

1:00:32

life. Just have a long backup pair of Raycons.

1:00:35

Exactly. So if

1:00:37

you head over to buyraycon.com/friends today,

1:00:39

you can get 15% off your

1:00:42

Raycon order plus free shipping. That's

1:00:45

right. You'll get 15% off and

1:00:48

free shipping at buyraycon.com/friends. That's

1:00:50

buyraycon.com/friends. Thank you again to Raycon

1:00:52

for sponsoring this episode. And

1:00:55

I don't know if I can say this

1:00:57

legally, but the voice that

1:01:00

tells you connected, power on. I have

1:01:02

a crush on her. So

1:01:05

she's my friend. Yeah,

1:01:07

move up the side, Starjo. And

1:01:15

I guess the other big thing that happened over the

1:01:17

last couple of weeks is

1:01:20

that a gamer network has

1:01:22

found its buyer in IGN.

1:01:25

So ReadPop, the company behind shows

1:01:27

like PAX, MCM, Comicon in the

1:01:29

UK, owned a

1:01:32

network of video game media

1:01:34

websites. So Eurogamer, RockPape Shotgun,

1:01:36

VG24.7. Under contract,

1:01:38

VGC, they did on Games

1:01:40

and Videos and channels like Outline

1:01:45

Extra and Outline Xbox, Digital Foundry.

1:01:49

They sold that portfolio

1:01:51

to IGN. And so

1:01:57

it's kind of a weird one for me because I know

1:01:59

a lot of people at those sites like I'm

1:02:02

from the UK and you know

1:02:04

Eurogamer was like the

1:02:07

publication like back when we

1:02:09

used to have the Games Media Awards don't

1:02:11

ask they would win like every

1:02:15

award every year they would

1:02:17

consistently produce like the most

1:02:19

thought-provoking stuff like I really

1:02:21

enjoyed their criticism and then

1:02:24

yeah similarly with you know places like VG247 and

1:02:26

Rock Paper Shotgun

1:02:28

if you own a PC and you're not reading Rock

1:02:30

Paper Shotgun what are you doing? And so it

1:02:32

feels very weird because it's you know

1:02:35

it's the Games Media consolidation thing

1:02:38

and obviously there have been layoffs

1:02:40

already so as the

1:02:43

editor in chief of

1:02:45

Games Industry.biz, Brandon Sinclair, Alice

1:02:49

from Rock Paper Shotgun and numerous other

1:02:51

people have all kind

1:02:53

of lost their jobs in this process it seems

1:02:55

like everyone outside of the UK they said right

1:02:59

but there's someone else that

1:03:01

was saying that I wonder if that's because they

1:03:03

don't need to provide any kind of notice

1:03:05

because the UK has specific laws about having

1:03:07

to provide notice to staff and

1:03:09

I wonder if then 60 days from now when

1:03:11

that notice period might expire or

1:03:13

whatever they haven't served notice to those people

1:03:16

yet so I guess that's not happening but

1:03:18

it just seems odd that they would be

1:03:20

able to axe those people immediately yeah that's

1:03:22

that sucks so yeah. And so yeah I

1:03:24

mean there was a lot of a lot of

1:03:26

angry quote I mean imagine like because I think

1:03:29

it was Chris Dring over at Games Industry.biz like

1:03:31

wrote the article and that

1:03:33

had like over a thousand or something

1:03:35

quote tweets about people being really kind of angry

1:03:37

at the news. And so it's

1:03:39

another story in a line of like you know the

1:03:42

traditional game industry the

1:03:44

written word struggling online

1:03:47

and that's like if you're listening

1:03:50

and you're like well what does this mean for me that's

1:03:52

what it means it's less website

1:03:54

like just the ongoing trend of less things

1:03:56

to read less people writing these things. One

1:04:00

of the things that is getting me about it is

1:04:03

that like all of those websites in their own way

1:04:05

would publish weird stuff

1:04:09

and like, especially like rock paper shotgun, and

1:04:11

they would encourage the weirdness

1:04:13

and like all of those people who

1:04:15

work there and hopefully still will

1:04:17

continue to work there had, you

1:04:20

know, like someone like Chris Donlan, for example,

1:04:22

is a legend and for good reason. And

1:04:26

if you've never read any features by Chris Donlan, you

1:04:28

should definitely go, you've done some fantastic stuff over the

1:04:30

years. I don't

1:04:32

know, it's just kind of like horrible to think

1:04:34

of the potential snuffling out of those voices because

1:04:37

can those publications exist the

1:04:39

way that they do under the

1:04:41

banner of IGN, which is something completely different?

1:04:45

And like, that's no shade to IGN at all.

1:04:47

I've got a lot of friends there. I use

1:04:49

IGN like every day. They do

1:04:51

some incredible work, but some of the features that

1:04:53

they like, I can't see some of

1:04:55

the things gelling with IGN. I also don't

1:04:57

see like, is it an SEO play? Are

1:04:59

they going to get folded in, allow one up to

1:05:03

increase the footprint of IGN like

1:05:05

in that territory? It's

1:05:08

weird, I guess, and

1:05:11

kind of sad. And part

1:05:13

of me is like the

1:05:15

games industry, like,

1:05:18

oh, here's the silver lining. At least a lot

1:05:20

of the people still have their jobs, like

1:05:23

to hold on to some element of like good news

1:05:25

about it. But in the reality of, for now, everything

1:05:28

is shrinking and it's sad and things are changing

1:05:33

and that all necessarily works. Yeah.

1:05:37

I definitely have a lot of thoughts on this. Go

1:05:39

for it. I got mine out. But

1:05:45

I think all of

1:05:47

this is very bad. And

1:05:51

I think people like, oh, I don't read websites

1:05:53

anyway. It's like, okay, cool. I

1:05:56

think many people still do. And

1:05:58

I think that the power of. certain

1:06:00

websites and certain writers is still very

1:06:02

important. And I don't and

1:06:04

that's not just limited to investigative reporting, by the

1:06:06

way. Like you have your Shryers and you have

1:06:09

your Rebecca Valentine, whatever. And like

1:06:11

there's this handful of people who do investigative

1:06:13

reporting, which is super rare because there's no

1:06:15

money in it, as in there's no money

1:06:18

in for publishers to like to

1:06:20

fund that work, right? Because that article is still

1:06:22

only going to get X number of clicks when

1:06:24

if Jason Shryer wrote a guide for Elden Ring,

1:06:26

he would be making Bloomberg a lot more money,

1:06:28

you know what I mean? Like that is just

1:06:30

the economics of this business at this point.

1:06:32

And that's a very bad place for this

1:06:34

industry to be. But when these

1:06:37

publications are focused on ad revenue, that is

1:06:39

where they're going to go, right? And

1:06:42

so you are going to

1:06:44

have with this with this

1:06:47

with this sort of consolidation fewer publications,

1:06:49

hiring fewer writers and training and training up fewer writers.

1:06:51

And I think this is it. It's not. And when

1:06:53

I say writers, I actually don't just mean like people

1:06:56

who write, I mean just people who cover games. And

1:06:59

because what I learned a long time ago is that like it

1:07:02

takes time to get good at this job. You

1:07:04

know, it actually does because I was so shit

1:07:06

at it when I started and you

1:07:08

think you're good because you're like, hey, I'm getting some

1:07:10

clicks. I'm getting some subscribers. I'm a natural talent. You're

1:07:13

like, no, you're not. You're fucking garbage. You know what

1:07:15

I mean? And certainly when you actually practice at this,

1:07:17

you actually start to understand what this is and you're

1:07:19

like, OK. And it's only now

1:07:21

like six or seven years in that

1:07:23

I feel like, OK, I'm actually pretty good at this at this

1:07:25

point. You know, like I know what I'm doing. I know how

1:07:28

to do this pretty well, not to put myself on the back

1:07:30

too much, but I do an OK job at what I do.

1:07:32

And I feel like I've only really hit that equilibrium

1:07:35

in the last little while because I've had this chance

1:07:37

to essentially like train myself up.

1:07:39

You know what I mean? Because there hasn't been a

1:07:41

structure around me to teach me how to do this

1:07:43

better and to get better faster. And

1:07:45

these publications are that place to do that,

1:07:48

right? Because independent content creation is a really

1:07:50

lonely existence and everyone needs to figure out

1:07:52

these same lessons themselves over time. There's no

1:07:54

one to teach or train you or mentor

1:07:56

you or anything like that. Right. So having

1:07:59

these like publications. that can bring people in

1:08:01

and train them up about how to cover games well is

1:08:03

important. And I know what everyone, and I know

1:08:05

lots of people have criticisms about games media. That's

1:08:08

totally fine, by the way. I'm not here to

1:08:10

say that all games media is inherently good or,

1:08:12

you know, beyond criticism. Of course not. Absolutely.

1:08:15

Just the same way that YouTubers are not all good

1:08:17

and beyond criticism. The same way that I'm not all

1:08:19

good and beyond criticism. Whatever. You

1:08:22

know what I'm saying, right? But the point is that having

1:08:24

these places where you can hire people

1:08:27

and train them is good. At

1:08:29

the same time, like these people get

1:08:31

paid peanuts. People who work in games media get

1:08:34

paid no money at all. I don't think people

1:08:36

actually understand how little like freelancers are getting, you

1:08:38

know, like I speak to some freelancers who are

1:08:40

reviewing games for $75 the entire review.

1:08:44

It's like they've worked for 25 hours to make to play

1:08:46

this game and write up this review and they get paid

1:08:48

$75. Many

1:08:50

of the reviews that you read online are

1:08:53

unpaid. They're just people on the grind who want to

1:08:55

like, you know, try and get their name out there

1:08:57

and they work for free. And that is a fact.

1:08:59

Like go and speak to many, many freelance writers about

1:09:01

the amount of free work that they've had to do

1:09:03

to like, you know, get like one toe in the

1:09:06

door. You know what I mean? And

1:09:09

that whole model doesn't work already.

1:09:11

And it works even less when you only

1:09:14

have like a handful of publications out there,

1:09:16

you know, making any kind of

1:09:19

opportunity possible. Right. And

1:09:22

then I think there's just the whole risk of

1:09:24

AI that's coming along and like the AI is

1:09:26

just going to sweep the legs out from what's

1:09:28

left. That IGN is fine because they're going to

1:09:30

be the big and they've got momentum, whatever else,

1:09:32

but your smaller publications who are

1:09:34

relying on X, Y and Z AI is just going

1:09:36

to come and crunch them because you won't need to

1:09:38

actually click on that link anymore. You

1:09:40

just will get the answer that you want in

1:09:43

search. And that's the stated goal

1:09:45

of every search platform right now. Google actually

1:09:47

call it like Google zero. That is there.

1:09:49

This is not some byproduct thing that they

1:09:52

might arrive at. This is like that is what we

1:09:54

are aiming at. And then what

1:09:56

does that mean for the sites that create that content?

1:09:58

They will die except for the really. big ones

1:10:00

like IGN who will survive or whatever, right? So,

1:10:04

yeah, it sucks. It's

1:10:06

disappointing, but it is just how it's how

1:10:09

it's going. And the only

1:10:11

way that we can really like, get

1:10:13

better up is if we, yeah,

1:10:16

try and do it ourselves. That's the truth. Like, we

1:10:19

need to like, as in we content creators,

1:10:22

media people like forming their own collectives, you

1:10:24

see it with second wind, and you see

1:10:26

it with no clip and you see it

1:10:28

with, you know, a handful of other independent

1:10:30

platforms. You

1:10:33

know, and it's like, that's how it needs to be

1:10:35

because we can't rely on these corporations to do this

1:10:37

well, or to make it sustainable,

1:10:39

or anything like that. Like, it has

1:10:41

to be funded by

1:10:44

made possible by these small

1:10:47

outfits. Yeah,

1:10:49

some sort of independence. And it's important

1:10:51

for two ways. Because if you think

1:10:53

independence, you think, oh,

1:10:55

it's easy. It's like you're an established writer, you

1:10:58

have a voice, you go out there, you put

1:11:00

up a Patreon, bing, bang, boom, it doesn't always

1:11:02

work like that. Not every writer has

1:11:04

built an audience like that, but they

1:11:06

are still valuable. They are still valid.

1:11:08

And like, that's the stuff that

1:11:11

I think still needs to get scooped up. And I

1:11:13

think that's the thing that people realize, like

1:11:15

need to, like you said,

1:11:18

Ralph, like, get it like fall into something independent.

1:11:21

Because I personally

1:11:24

like I value so much long

1:11:28

reads, like big long, like the whole history

1:11:30

of how this game was made, this get

1:11:32

X, get blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:11:34

Those come fewer and far between. They're also

1:11:36

hard to find. And

1:11:39

I would miss that. And I think

1:11:41

that those types of things can

1:11:44

live somewhere else independently,

1:11:46

specifically because the corporations

1:11:50

just don't like, yes, I know

1:11:52

not everybody's gonna read like, Metal

1:11:55

Gear Solid made me discover my sexuality or

1:11:57

something like not everybody's gonna read that. piece,

1:12:00

but I think those are still interesting. It's just

1:12:03

the corporations don't know how to monetize

1:12:06

and make money from these things. So

1:12:08

I don't want to see an internet where it's just and

1:12:11

guides writers do God's work. But I don't want

1:12:13

to see a world where it's like just guys

1:12:15

writers because it's the last thing that is profitable

1:12:17

for these companies that

1:12:19

can't figure out anything else. There has to be.

1:12:21

Yeah, I totally agree. And

1:12:23

there's also lots of and I think another blind

1:12:26

a lot of people say, oh, we

1:12:28

just rely on YouTube and TikTok and

1:12:30

streamers and that's all we need. And

1:12:32

it's like, okay, first of all, those

1:12:34

people are not equipped to do investigative

1:12:36

reporting, generally speaking, some of them are,

1:12:38

most of them aren't because

1:12:41

the resources required to do that is

1:12:43

so vast. Your average YouTuber, whoever does

1:12:45

not have the resources to do that.

1:12:49

But secondly, there's certain types of content

1:12:51

that don't work, that only really

1:12:53

work in the written form, you know, like,

1:12:55

like, like, like an interview with a developer.

1:12:57

And I'm not talking about interviewing Hideo Kojima

1:12:59

about Death Stranding, too, because that's immediately newsworthy.

1:13:02

But you know, like having a conversation with

1:13:04

a developer, a smaller developer about a smaller

1:13:06

game that they're putting out and, you know,

1:13:08

you have that kind of conversation, it's not

1:13:10

worth its own video, per se, you know,

1:13:13

but like, maybe there's a few grabs in

1:13:15

there that are worth reporting

1:13:17

on in a story. And it leads to some

1:13:19

bigger conversations, you know. And yeah,

1:13:22

those sorts of like, those deep dives into x, y

1:13:24

and z, you know, Metal Gear sexuality,

1:13:26

Meryl doing sit ups in a cell kind of

1:13:29

thing, you know what I mean? That

1:13:31

could work as a video, sure, but like, could

1:13:33

also just be a really great written piece. That's,

1:13:35

you know, like 12 paragraphs long, and it's punchy.

1:13:38

And you can't do 12 paragraphs on YouTube in a

1:13:40

YouTube video, because the algorithm won't serve it. And it

1:13:42

will, in fact, punish you for doing it. Because YouTube

1:13:45

is like, no, your video is not long enough, you

1:13:47

have not put enough ads in this video, this is

1:13:49

a bad video, we are going to downrank this in

1:13:51

search and we're going to punish your channel for it

1:13:53

as well. But the written form is just like, yeah,

1:13:55

here's 12 paragraphs, we're done, you know what I'm saying?

1:13:58

So, I think it's vital that this

1:14:00

space continues to exist. And

1:14:04

yeah, I definitely, yeah,

1:14:07

I really hope that

1:14:09

it finds a way to, to, to

1:14:11

survive, you know, because it would be, it

1:14:14

would really be, like, I don't hate IGN, by the

1:14:16

way, I've got nothing against IGN on balance. I like,

1:14:18

I appreciate most of what they do, you know, but

1:14:20

it's just the idea that they would own everything sucks.

1:14:23

Oh, yeah, the whole consolidation. It's like, yeah, consolidation

1:14:25

is happening everywhere. Yeah, let's do it over here

1:14:27

too. No, yeah. So that, that part sucks. It's

1:14:29

not good for the industry overall. It's not good

1:14:32

in video games, development, publishing. It's not good in

1:14:34

games, media. So I'm again

1:14:37

it. I'm again it. What?

1:14:39

Yeah, I'm again it. What is

1:14:41

that? Against it? Yes, it's against

1:14:43

it. It's like old timey. You have never heard this.

1:14:45

It's literally from The Simpsons as well. Somewhere

1:14:51

in there. Somewhere. Someone in the comic book will back

1:14:53

me up on this, okay? I'm again it. I saw

1:14:55

this, I saw this one tweet that was like this

1:14:58

week about Australian accent. It was

1:15:00

like Australian murder shows are

1:15:03

like, oh no, there's been

1:15:05

a murder. The way it was

1:15:07

written was like, damn it.

1:15:10

That's exactly how we sound. How did you know it?

1:15:13

Australian accent and the new ones. Oh

1:15:16

my God. Yes, we will talk

1:15:18

about that for sure. Well, before we

1:15:20

go. Groom and doom. I do want to end

1:15:22

on if you

1:15:24

do like reading stuff, do

1:15:27

seek out those voices, seek out those writers,

1:15:30

follow them on Twitter or whatever,

1:15:32

or just bookmark their writer page

1:15:35

because yeah, reading stuff is still good.

1:15:37

In 20 years, we're not even going

1:15:39

to have to read anymore. So read

1:15:42

while you can. Just the chip will

1:15:44

read for us in our brains. But

1:15:46

also like support, directly support,

1:15:48

like become a patron. If you

1:15:50

can afford it, obviously to second wind and to

1:15:52

no clip and to and to whoever else that

1:15:54

you think is putting out good stuff, if you

1:15:57

can sling them a little bit of cash to

1:15:59

keep them going, then. do that because that's actually

1:16:01

the only way this continues to work. You know what

1:16:03

I mean? Um, so yeah,

1:16:05

definitely if you're in a position to be able

1:16:07

to support that kind of like coverage, then definitely

1:16:09

support it. It's a

1:16:11

good thing. Especially if you care about

1:16:13

how games are made or

1:16:16

anything like that, because you

1:16:19

can, like you'll only have in the future, if

1:16:21

there's no anything, you only are

1:16:23

going to have the publishers telling

1:16:25

the story of how a game was made. And

1:16:27

that's the sanitized corporate version where we learn nothing.

1:16:30

So publishers literally own the media outlets,

1:16:33

like the Saudi savvy

1:16:35

investment fund literally like bought or

1:16:37

like setting up a gaming vertical

1:16:39

inside of Rolling Stone this week.

1:16:42

It's like, that's a game publisher and they're

1:16:44

now owning a section of the media. Like

1:16:46

that's, that seems incorrect. When Bob, it's

1:16:48

like when it's absolutely incorrect. It's like when Bobby Kotick

1:16:51

thought about buying Kotaku, you know what I mean? That's

1:16:53

a thing that actually happened. Uh,

1:16:55

and it's yeah, but it's, I guarantee you'll

1:16:57

see more of it. It's why not? Like

1:16:59

why wouldn't these publications, like these massive entities

1:17:02

with too much cash to burn in the game space,

1:17:04

why wouldn't they start buying up media outlets so they

1:17:06

can start seeding the message? You know what I mean?

1:17:08

Why wouldn't they do that? Well, it didn't,

1:17:10

wasn't Fanfic owned by Tencent and

1:17:13

then that imploded. Was that actually owned

1:17:15

by them? It was,

1:17:17

you're right. Cool. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You

1:17:19

know, so, uh, We

1:17:21

should buy them. I got like, I

1:17:23

got like 900 bucks. Yeah.

1:17:25

I got 200 bucks. Let's

1:17:28

do it. I got some, I got some old comic books I

1:17:30

can sell. There you go. Um, support.

1:17:33

I, the ones I like, video games industry

1:17:35

memo, game discover co. Uh,

1:17:37

I know that, uh, VGC Andy was like,

1:17:40

if we did a Patreon, what would you

1:17:42

want from it? VGC is like go to

1:17:44

every day. VGC is good. I'll

1:17:47

definitely sub to this. I'm like,

1:17:49

I do game files. Game files is

1:17:51

great. I do second wind.

1:17:53

Yeah. I do no clip. And

1:17:56

obviously people make it enough to be people

1:17:59

make it. I don't, I just put. but always really like their

1:18:01

output. And like, obviously I'm fortunate enough

1:18:03

to be in that position where I can do that. But

1:18:06

that always feels like money very well spent to

1:18:08

me because I really appreciate those people and what they

1:18:11

do. And yeah, and if Andy from VGC was to

1:18:13

set up his own thing for sure, because they

1:18:15

do some of the best reporting in the business for

1:18:17

sure. Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:21

Shall we go have a user question? There's a little

1:18:23

palette. Yeah, let's do it. What do you got?

1:18:26

Graham. Hey, FPS, the

1:18:28

quote, given the opportunity, gamers will

1:18:30

optimize the fun out of a

1:18:32

game is one that I think about

1:18:34

often. I was thinking about it as

1:18:36

I was finishing up a long overdue playthrough of control.

1:18:38

I noticed by the end I was playing a particular

1:18:40

way. It was not deviating from it, but I didn't

1:18:43

care because the strategies worked for me and I was

1:18:45

having a great time. However, I do

1:18:47

wonder if I would have enjoyed combat more if the

1:18:49

game forced me to try other play styles out. Which

1:18:52

do you prefer? Having a play

1:18:54

style that works for you and sticking with it,

1:18:56

consistently experimenting with what the game has to offer,

1:18:58

or having the game force you to experiment with its

1:19:01

systems. Have a great morning, day, flash

1:19:04

night. Depends

1:19:06

on the game. The obvious answer is, oh no,

1:19:08

I want to be consistently challenged so I can

1:19:10

learn the nuances and see the ins and outs

1:19:12

of this entire game. But some

1:19:15

games just have a really good

1:19:17

fucking sword. And you're like, this is my

1:19:19

sword for the rest of the game. This

1:19:21

is my end game. It has electricity. Me

1:19:25

replaying Elden Ring right now. Within

1:19:28

two hours I got the

1:19:31

meteorite thing, which

1:19:33

was like the S scaling and

1:19:36

the bloodhound fang. And

1:19:38

I'm just like, Caesar, Caesar. At least

1:19:40

mid to late game weapons. Why not?

1:19:43

Why shouldn't I? Why shouldn't I? I don't

1:19:45

drink my thoughts. I went

1:19:47

into this playthrough, I'm pretty sure I said it on

1:19:49

here, I went into this playthrough and I was like, oh, I'm going to

1:19:52

do a guts build, like a strength build. I'm going to have the

1:19:54

big hood. I remember that. I fucking did not.

1:19:57

Well, okay. This game is so easy.

1:20:00

No, no, because

1:20:02

I went and killed that sad defenseless dragon over

1:20:05

in game. I ended up

1:20:07

at 8,000 souls. So,

1:20:10

because he just robs through everything then? Yeah.

1:20:13

I don't know. I don't

1:20:15

think I'm good at it. Maybe this is why Breath

1:20:17

of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom didn't click

1:20:19

for me because I am not an experiment-y gamer.

1:20:22

I like it when things just work for me.

1:20:26

And maybe, yeah, I think I just find a thing and... Because

1:20:30

then I get the satisfaction of being

1:20:32

good at it because of practice, because

1:20:34

I'm not experimenting. I'm sticking with the same

1:20:36

thing. Yeah, I

1:20:39

find... I think it really, again, it depends.

1:20:41

For example, looters. Really

1:20:44

naturally, they naturally lead

1:20:46

to that style of play because

1:20:49

the game itself is not very

1:20:51

objective focused. It's really just about

1:20:53

the play, right? And so therefore,

1:20:55

it's like, well, today I'm going to run this build, which does

1:20:57

this bullshit, and then tomorrow I'm going to run a different one

1:20:59

because why not? Like I'm just here to grind, so I may

1:21:02

as well spice it up a little bit, right? That pisses me

1:21:04

off. That's like... Why? That's

1:21:07

busy work for me. Going in and swapping stuff out,

1:21:09

that feels... No, well then, I agree with you.

1:21:11

However, certain games get to the point where they've

1:21:13

got loadout systems that are very intuitive and that

1:21:15

allow you to do that. You

1:21:18

know, certainly Destiny has that, the Division had

1:21:20

it. Diablo 3

1:21:22

never... I don't think Diablo 3 ever got

1:21:24

a loadout system. Diablo 4 definitely doesn't. I

1:21:26

can't remember if... Correct me if I'm in the comments, let

1:21:28

me know if it actually did. Yeah,

1:21:31

so I agree with you. I don't want to do

1:21:33

the annoying shit. I hate that, right? But when you

1:21:35

remove that barrier to me, I think it opens up

1:21:37

a lot of the game. And Destiny 2 is definitely

1:21:40

a much better game now because of its loadout system

1:21:42

because it has eight slots and you can switch between

1:21:44

them immediately. It's very comprehensive. It really is great, you

1:21:46

know? I would say at the

1:21:49

same time, if I'm in an objectives-focused game,

1:21:52

I kind of need the game to push

1:21:54

me toward that different style of play. As

1:21:57

an example, like The Last of Us. The

1:22:00

Last of Us has this really cool combat that

1:22:02

does heaps of cool shit, right? You see all

1:22:04

those videos from like, Suni Legend or whatever, you

1:22:06

just tear and shit up. And you're like, well,

1:22:08

you could do that. I didn't even know that

1:22:10

it move was in the game. Like, whatever. Cause

1:22:13

me, I'm just like, sneak, sneak, sneak, throw

1:22:15

a thing, run up. That's

1:22:18

it. That's, that's all. That's the only

1:22:20

way I play. Right? Because the game

1:22:22

never asks me to do anything different.

1:22:25

And so I have all these tools at my

1:22:27

disposal, but I feel like I wasted because I'm

1:22:29

just focused on the objective. And

1:22:32

I, and there's nothing that really forces me

1:22:34

to deviate from that, you know? So I,

1:22:37

that part, it doesn't work for me, but then

1:22:39

like a roguelite, for example, with Hades and Hades

1:22:41

has all these different weapons and sure, some of

1:22:44

them I think are better than others, but it

1:22:46

has this thing where every new run, one of

1:22:48

the weapons is kind of supercharged and you get

1:22:50

bonus currency for playing with that weapon. And I'm

1:22:53

like, yes, that is exactly it. I don't like

1:22:55

using that weapon, but I'm going to use it

1:22:57

because you've incentivized me to do so. And then

1:22:59

I use it and I'm like, actually, you know

1:23:01

what? So that was pretty good. I

1:23:04

like this. And at that point, more of

1:23:06

the game has opened up for me and because I've

1:23:08

been forced to experiment. So yeah, I,

1:23:11

um, I definitely do

1:23:13

not tend towards this stuff naturally outside

1:23:15

of looters, but

1:23:17

yeah, when it exists, uh, I'm really glad for

1:23:19

it. And I get pissed off when games don't

1:23:21

have this sort of stuff. Cause I'm like, you

1:23:24

didn't ask me to change it up. It's your fault.

1:23:26

You know what I mean? Like I think it's the

1:23:28

onus is on the game to make me change my

1:23:30

behavior, which I know is not the right attitude, I

1:23:32

think, but that's how I personally view it for sure.

1:23:34

No, it's the same thing with it. When you play

1:23:36

games where it's like you, the game is designed like

1:23:38

sandboxy to find your own fun or make your own.

1:23:40

Yeah. Like I'm not good at that. Yeah.

1:23:43

I need, I need a push. Absolutely.

1:23:46

Yeah. And games that can figure out how to

1:23:48

nudge the player without like the

1:23:51

gentle nudge is good. The shove is annoying. Where

1:23:53

it's like, Oh, I don't want to do that. That,

1:23:55

that weapon sucks. Or this is, you're not making this

1:23:57

fun. You're punishing me rather than incentivizing me or. I

1:24:00

feel like I'm sacrificing too much if I don't go

1:24:02

with what you want. But if you just give me

1:24:04

like a gentle nudge, I'm like, all right, that's

1:24:06

enough. I'll, I'll, I'll play along. Let's go. You

1:24:08

know? So. Trying

1:24:11

to, yeah, great question. I can't remember which game

1:24:13

it was I was playing recently, but like there was

1:24:15

an AI character with me that

1:24:17

kept just yelling at me to change my

1:24:19

play style. And I was like,

1:24:22

no, no, shut up. What

1:24:26

have we been playing? Ralph?

1:24:29

What haven't we been playing? We've had

1:24:31

a good, we've had a good little period, haven't we?

1:24:33

Mm hmm. Um.

1:24:35

Let's go first. Oh, I'll go first

1:24:37

briefly with Destiny while we're sort of

1:24:40

on that track. Okay. So I went

1:24:42

to Bungle HQ and

1:24:45

they let you in. They let me in. They

1:24:48

were very nice actually. And I caught up with some Bungie

1:24:50

developers I hadn't seen in a while, which is really great

1:24:52

to see them. Um, I

1:24:55

was there for two full days playing the Final Shape

1:24:57

and we saw a lot of it. Like

1:25:00

usually you go to these sort of events and

1:25:02

it's pretty quick, you know, like a few, like

1:25:04

a morning play block and then an afternoon

1:25:06

play block and they're really like, just give you

1:25:08

a little taste of stuff and lots of PowerPoint

1:25:10

presentations for. No, they were like, yo,

1:25:13

just sit down. Not quite, but basically

1:25:15

just sit down and play for two days. That was

1:25:17

kind of it. Like it was pretty impressive. They

1:25:19

showed us, I would say at least 60% of

1:25:22

the campaign, like of the campaign missions they're about to

1:25:24

drop. They showed us the whole new patrol destination. That's

1:25:27

like that we can, we're going to spend a lot

1:25:29

of time on. They showed us the new strike that

1:25:31

we can play through. Um, they

1:25:33

showed us what we got to play around

1:25:35

with some PvP, basically all of the, not

1:25:37

all, but a huge chunk of the new

1:25:39

exotic items that are arriving and new weapons,

1:25:41

uh, the new subclass, like

1:25:43

we really saw this expansion. Um,

1:25:46

so it was a really good session from that,

1:25:48

from that. What is the new patrol section like?

1:25:51

Uh, it's really different to anything else.

1:25:54

Cause it's actually a solo destination. So

1:25:56

the patrol zones are usually dynamically match

1:25:58

made. Yeah. You'll see just. random

1:26:00

people come in, whatever. But this one,

1:26:02

by default, you load it on your

1:26:04

own. And this is gigantic area full

1:26:07

of activities that are kind of tuned

1:26:09

specifically for one person or maybe

1:26:11

two or three, because you can invite like a fire

1:26:13

team in with you if you like. And

1:26:16

that has allowed Bungie to make a whole

1:26:18

set of new activities that they haven't done

1:26:20

before, to tune them very precisely. It

1:26:22

was a really interesting space that felt great

1:26:25

to play in. And I think

1:26:27

that was a real high point of

1:26:29

what I experienced. Prismatic is the major

1:26:31

thing. It's the new subclass available in

1:26:33

the thing. This is all getting

1:26:35

in the weeds for non-destiny players. But imagine,

1:26:38

like, you know, there's builds, there's

1:26:41

like classes in different games. Prismatic

1:26:43

is essentially a class type that

1:26:45

combines elements from

1:26:48

all of the others. And it's very interesting

1:26:50

and very flexible with how it can be

1:26:52

used. It's really fun.

1:26:54

They've done a really great job with it.

1:26:56

And I'm very optimistic for what that means

1:26:59

for the future of, you know, the

1:27:01

next little chapter of the game, right?

1:27:04

The next 12 months, I don't know.

1:27:07

And yeah, outside of that, I

1:27:09

wasn't super taken with like the mission design or

1:27:11

story stuff, to be honest with you. That wasn't

1:27:13

really hidden with me. And I saw similar commentary

1:27:15

from Destin, Destin

1:27:20

reviewing or previewing Destiny. He said something similar, and

1:27:22

I think I'm kind of on the same page

1:27:24

for me, but it's too early to judge the

1:27:26

story until you see the whole thing. Like, it's

1:27:28

just, it's not, can't really do that. Yeah,

1:27:32

look, it's more Destiny, which

1:27:35

goes without saying, but I know you

1:27:37

guys always have a passing interest and you're always like,

1:27:39

should I start playing Destiny? I'm like, when

1:27:44

it was the witch queen, I was

1:27:46

like, hell yeah, man. Like, this is

1:27:48

pretty, like, they're definitely cooked with this

1:27:50

expansion. And it's too early

1:27:53

to say whether this will be the same because

1:27:55

I've only previewed it. But right now, I don't

1:27:57

know, I didn't see those things jumping out at

1:27:59

me. that would be like, oh, a new

1:28:01

player should start playing Destiny right now. I

1:28:03

suspect this will probably make existing players really

1:28:05

happy. But

1:28:07

I don't know about new players,

1:28:10

I guess not. And also, this

1:28:12

is the other thing, and I said this in my preview,

1:28:14

but like, we

1:28:16

don't know what's next for Destiny. We know

1:28:18

that there are some like apps coming,

1:28:21

which are kind of these smaller content

1:28:23

drops in the future, but we

1:28:25

don't know if there's another expansion next year. We

1:28:27

don't know if they're going

1:28:29

to, you know, hold off and not do

1:28:32

another expansion for two years because they need to

1:28:34

put all their resources behind the launch of Marathon,

1:28:36

which we assume will be their next major release.

1:28:38

We don't know if they're secretly working on Destiny

1:28:40

3, which is, you know, what people are assuming,

1:28:42

but we don't know. So

1:28:44

it's hard to ask people

1:28:46

to start playing this game right now

1:28:49

because you don't know what's next. It's like, you

1:28:51

know, what's next World of Warcraft. They just told

1:28:54

you that there's like a three episode saga coming

1:28:56

for that game and you can decide to like,

1:28:58

all right, cool. I'm going to, I'm going to

1:29:00

invest in that. I'm going to, that's

1:29:02

the thing I'm going to invest my time and energy into. Cause

1:29:04

I know that there's this future and it's going to build and

1:29:06

whatever else. But this though, you're

1:29:09

like, I don't know. Is Destiny 2 going away

1:29:11

after this and all the things that I've grinded

1:29:13

for are just going to go away. And when

1:29:15

they launch a Destiny 3 in three or four

1:29:17

years time, we don't know. So it does

1:29:19

make it a tricky proposition when you consider whether

1:29:21

or not it's time to like start playing

1:29:23

Destiny for the first time. What

1:29:26

about people, what about like lapsed players? Yeah,

1:29:29

I mean, look, I think lapsed players, it's a

1:29:31

good, from what I've seen, it

1:29:33

seems like a good offering because lapsed players

1:29:35

will already have some familiarity with elements of

1:29:38

the subclasses that feed into Prismatic. And

1:29:40

also they would have played some stories, like they'll know

1:29:42

the story elements as well and they're like, Hey, Kate's

1:29:44

back. I love that guy, you know, whatever. And

1:29:46

also it's kind of a closure of a

1:29:48

10 year saga. And maybe you only experienced a few

1:29:51

beats along the way, but you at

1:29:53

least have some connection to the characters in the

1:29:55

world and the story. And you're like, cool. So

1:29:57

for lapsed players, I do think that. But

1:30:00

then does that become a thing

1:30:02

where these laps players become fully re-engaged

1:30:05

in Destiny long term? Again,

1:30:07

it's hard to imagine that or ask

1:30:09

them to do that when Budgie can't

1:30:11

give them any concrete answers

1:30:13

as to what their intentions are for

1:30:15

this franchise. So,

1:30:17

yeah, I can't believe it's out next week,

1:30:19

by the way. When this goes out, when

1:30:21

this goes out, it's, this is

1:30:24

probably gonna go out on like Saturday, maybe Friday

1:30:26

or Saturday. At that point, the

1:30:28

expansion launches like four days after that. It's

1:30:30

so crazy. We're in June. Can you believe

1:30:32

we're in June? That's J-U-N-E, by the way.

1:30:34

Hi, Enzo, what you meant? It's

1:30:40

crazy, man. I just, the year has flown

1:30:43

so far. Tell me about it. Anyway,

1:30:46

that's Destiny. That's Destiny. It's actually, as soon

1:30:48

as I upload the video, it's so funny

1:30:50

whenever I upload Destiny's videos. I

1:30:52

just get like a lot of dislikes for no

1:30:55

reason. Like, for no reason, other than people are

1:30:57

like, we don't want to hear you talk about

1:30:59

this fucking game. Shut the fuck up. You know

1:31:01

what I mean? Like, it's like, all right. That's

1:31:04

why I just have learned to weather those dislikes

1:31:06

at this point. This is how it goes. So,

1:31:08

yeah. All right, that's me.

1:31:10

That's you. Jake, you've

1:31:12

been playing Rogue Prince of Persia. Yeah,

1:31:15

he's gone rogue. Believe it

1:31:17

or not, he's gone rogue. It's

1:31:20

legit. It is very early access,

1:31:22

though. But it is

1:31:24

from the people who made Dead Cells, who

1:31:26

Dead Cells rolled out, I believe, with early

1:31:29

access for a long time. But

1:31:32

these guys weren't the ones that shipped Dead Cells 1.0.

1:31:36

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so

1:31:38

that was a different studio. So that

1:31:40

first studio that shipped 1.0 was Motion

1:31:42

Twin. And then

1:31:44

a year after Dead Cells

1:31:46

launched, they handed

1:31:48

over to Evil Empire, this studio. So

1:31:51

this studio has done the post-launch support. Right, which I like

1:31:53

all that. So that's it. Thank you. I

1:31:56

didn't know that. Thank you for clarifying. I'm bad

1:31:58

at this. Good.

1:32:00

It's, it's not a, it's,

1:32:02

I wouldn't say it's a full game. It's

1:32:05

two bosses. And then you get

1:32:07

hit with like a, Hey, you

1:32:09

get hit with like a splash screen, like, thanks

1:32:11

for playing. Give us feedback. There's still more to

1:32:13

come. But for the bear, for

1:32:15

the baseline here, I think

1:32:17

it's fun. It's got that slick, responsive movement,

1:32:20

quick dashes down, dodges. So

1:32:22

it plays kind of like a dead cells,

1:32:24

but you're wall running. And

1:32:26

that adds a whole different dimension, believe it or

1:32:29

not. You wouldn't think it would be because you

1:32:31

think wall running and it's like, Oh, that's just

1:32:33

how I get over cliffs

1:32:35

or jumps. Uh, but it

1:32:37

adds a whole extra dimension because now

1:32:39

you're looking in the background of

1:32:42

the level design being like, is that a

1:32:44

wall? Is that a wall in

1:32:46

that? Can I, and the wall running

1:32:48

is directional. So you can go up,

1:32:50

down, left, right. So it's like

1:32:52

a scramble and it really opens up

1:32:55

a lot of extra. So my favorite thing about these

1:32:57

types of games is how quickly

1:32:59

you can move through an environment, how you

1:33:01

can master that dash down, up, boom. So

1:33:03

the wall running kind of adds a good

1:33:05

little extra element to that. Plus the

1:33:08

Prince of Persia, like flippy dudes on poles

1:33:10

and you know, climbing ropes and stuff like

1:33:12

that. So it's got the Prince of Persia

1:33:15

flavor with dead cells, spice

1:33:18

combat, uh, doling out of

1:33:20

abilities. I just want to see

1:33:22

more, more enemy types, more abilities,

1:33:25

the randomization to the

1:33:27

levels. I, like, I, I wanted more from that

1:33:29

as well. I agree with you. Um, but I

1:33:31

think it's a really good start. The music is

1:33:34

banging. The arts, how is it music? The music's

1:33:36

really good. So I would listen to

1:33:38

the OST like all week. It's so fantastic. Like it's

1:33:40

got a base that like hits. It's got like a

1:33:42

good piece to it. I was like, damn, that

1:33:44

Prince of Persia is purple or like pink. Another

1:33:48

blue. The environments are

1:33:50

beautiful. I, I'm really

1:33:52

into this and I, I finished

1:33:55

the second boss. I hit that wall and I

1:33:57

went, Oh, Oh wow. I,

1:33:59

I, I almost wish I didn't jump in

1:34:01

yet, just because I want more right now.

1:34:04

So I'm glad I got a taste, but I

1:34:07

really wish I could have kept going because I like

1:34:09

it that much. It gave me the same dopamine

1:34:13

rush, the addiction that these types of

1:34:15

games do. But with

1:34:17

that Prince of Persia vibe, so I was, as

1:34:19

a Prince of Persia person, I'm

1:34:21

happy so far. Yeah,

1:34:25

I agree. I mean, I think it is genuinely

1:34:27

early access and I think that's kind of weird

1:34:29

to say, but we've had two

1:34:31

games recently that launched into early access,

1:34:33

but they feel so polished and content

1:34:36

rich, namely Hades 2 and No Rest

1:34:38

for the Wicked. And so I

1:34:40

think consumers might be thinking, ah, this

1:34:43

is what all early access games, it's like, it's

1:34:45

like, no, that is not the case. Early access

1:34:47

usually means early access. Like this is

1:34:49

nowhere near done. We've got a big journey ahead of

1:34:51

us. That's how this feels. Um,

1:34:54

and I'm okay with that. Like I really am really

1:34:57

okay with that. This is actually the

1:34:59

very first early access game that Ubisoft

1:35:01

has ever released. Wow. And

1:35:04

it's actually early access as opposed to it being

1:35:06

broken and unfinished. Early

1:35:09

access in all but name. Eh,

1:35:11

that's right. With

1:35:14

no, you play anything. Love

1:35:17

it. I mean, I, yeah, cause I did the

1:35:19

video on earlier this week and I had this

1:35:22

like all these bullet points about like why this

1:35:24

is good. Like yeah, on Steam, early access. It's

1:35:26

a third party public. It's a third party deal.

1:35:28

So it's like Ubisoft have lent out their IP

1:35:31

to us, to a small studio to do something

1:35:33

with, and I wish more publishers

1:35:35

would do that. Like you don't always need to

1:35:37

own the studios that are working on your IP.

1:35:40

Like Sony could just partner with some little

1:35:42

indie team to make a 2d God

1:35:44

of War fucking roguelike, why couldn't we get

1:35:46

that? That'd be sick. Do that. Do you

1:35:48

know what I mean? You don't need to

1:35:50

own the studio that's making that game. It's

1:35:52

okay to work with other

1:35:54

studios. So I

1:35:56

really like a lot of how Ubisoft are putting this out

1:35:59

to market to be honest. It's cool. It's it's

1:36:01

nice and it does help that it's a good game

1:36:03

I really haven't kind of kind of runs on steam

1:36:05

deck for the most part. I had fun

1:36:07

issues, but it was playable Yeah,

1:36:11

it's really good for that. Did you like the bosses? uh

1:36:15

I think this combat is the weakest

1:36:17

aspect The thing is combat in that

1:36:20

game is dependent not upon throughput and

1:36:22

damage It's dependent upon

1:36:24

positioning and movement and like

1:36:27

using other enemies or choosing to

1:36:29

not engage in combat Whereas the

1:36:31

bosses is kind of just like sitting there

1:36:33

hitting the boss Oh, yeah, and that is

1:36:35

what the game is the worst at and

1:36:37

so the bosses I don't think are satisfying

1:36:39

from that angle Right. So hopefully they can

1:36:42

flesh out those encounters a little more or have some

1:36:44

different styles of boss encounters that lean more into

1:36:46

the game's Strength but for me, I

1:36:49

didn't really care that much. I was like I enjoyed everything

1:36:51

else so much It was just a minor gripe almost, you

1:36:53

know But

1:36:55

I do find it very interesting how different it was

1:36:57

from dead cells because it kind of looks like it

1:36:59

It's got some structural elements that are very similar But

1:37:02

the core feel of it in combat and traversal is

1:37:04

very much its own thing And

1:37:07

it takes time to realize that because it's

1:37:09

subtle, you know the way the combat works

1:37:12

Yeah, it's not about big damage or big

1:37:14

power-ups like it really is about like mastering

1:37:16

your positioning and Mastering knock backs and environmental

1:37:18

damage and all that sort of stuff. So

1:37:22

Until you stop until you're awake to that

1:37:24

stuff. You're sort of like, what is this?

1:37:27

But then when you get it you're like, ah, this

1:37:30

is nice Yeah, when it clicks too and you realize

1:37:32

like not taking the easy way out to kick it

1:37:34

into pits And

1:37:37

then with all the abilities like although all

1:37:39

the little modifiers you get are

1:37:41

all mostly tied to Doing

1:37:43

a backflip over an enemy or getting

1:37:45

an enemy into a wall. It encourages

1:37:48

that stuff Yeah,

1:37:50

so I think those subtleties take time to

1:37:52

see and feel because again you just think

1:37:54

add to the mate dead cells Oh,

1:37:56

I unlock weapons by collecting oozes.

1:37:58

This is dead themselves all over again. And

1:38:01

that's partly true, but there's more than enough here

1:38:03

that makes it stand on its own two feet.

1:38:05

So yeah, I'm like, yo, I wouldn't

1:38:07

recommend you pick this up right now. I think there's

1:38:10

like a good 10 to 20

1:38:12

hours of gameplay here, depending on how you want to

1:38:14

play it and how much you want to unlock. If

1:38:16

you want to do everything that's available, unlock every single

1:38:18

thing and really just play the shit out of it.

1:38:20

You could stretch it to 20 hours. I think it's

1:38:22

probably going to be closer to 15. I put about

1:38:25

10 to 12 in it and I unlocked about

1:38:28

two thirds of what's available. I felt very

1:38:30

happy with that time and really excited to

1:38:32

return to it when it's a 1.0 access

1:38:34

release, which I don't think is going to

1:38:36

be anytime soon. Like if I was to

1:38:38

guess where this is at, I

1:38:40

might even go as far as to say it's like mid

1:38:42

to late next year before it hits 1.0 at

1:38:45

the earliest. Maybe end of next year seems

1:38:47

safest. Whereas with Hades, I'm like, eh, you

1:38:49

could probably just add a little bit

1:38:51

onto this and ship it tomorrow, even though they said it's going to be

1:38:54

20 to 25. So yeah. Damn.

1:38:57

I think I'll wait a little bit more. I

1:38:59

think I'm, I don't

1:39:02

know, there's just so much going on right

1:39:04

now. Maybe maybe over the summer with your

1:39:06

Elden Ring playthrough. About

1:39:09

15, 15 hours in. So

1:39:12

I usually have an Elden Ring character. Every time

1:39:14

I make a character in a video game, I

1:39:17

call them Jeff. But

1:39:20

then I like from 21, Jeff Street.

1:39:22

Like my name Jeff. My

1:39:25

name Jeff. Yep. Kind of. I think that is

1:39:27

where I started doing it, but then I had a realization the other

1:39:33

day when I was booting up Elden Ring

1:39:35

that I personally know

1:39:38

five people named Jeff with

1:39:41

J's and one G and I was

1:39:43

like, are

1:39:46

you counting? I work with

1:39:48