0:00

So the King's new lemonade lineup

0:03

is here. Name and a lemonade

0:05

The Smoothie King Way try strawberry.

0:07

Guava Lemonade ask refresher over

0:09

ice a power up in

0:12

it can energize, or a

0:14

blueberry lemonade smoothie lead it

0:16

up being. Made

0:18

with real fruit. Real juice for

0:21

a real sipping good summer. Yeah

0:23

yeah, Data is no Smoothie Kings

0:25

New lemonade lineup of for a

0:27

limited time. Who. Stars Day.

0:30

Basically the entire world makes fun of this man,

0:33

okay? At Magaland

0:35

they don't appreciate what a

0:37

global planetary joke

0:40

Donald Trump is to the world. They

0:42

think of Donald Trump as this tough guy who

0:44

scares everybody. Well he's, you know, he scares everybody

0:46

in the same way that, you know, a five

0:48

year old walking around on a roof holding a

0:50

bomb might, might, might

0:52

scare you. But he's not, you

0:55

know, he's weak and pathetic and

0:57

stupid. I mean most old people

0:59

think he's an idiot. Hello

1:06

everyone and welcome to George Conway Explains

1:08

It All to Sarah. I'm

1:10

Sarah Longwell, publisher of The Bull Work and because

1:13

I'm not a lawyer, that's my good friend George

1:15

Conway from the Society for the Rule of Law

1:17

to explain the legal news to me. And

1:19

George and I are both remote because we are both

1:21

traveling or wait, I'm remote. Are you a root? Why

1:24

are you in your house? Yeah, well I'm

1:26

in my house, so that's remote enough. Okay,

1:28

we're remote because I'm in Denver. George is coming

1:30

to Denver next week. We're going to do our

1:32

show together at the Aspen Ideas Festival, which

1:35

will be after the debate. And

1:37

so it should be a good time for us to get together. We

1:40

also should have a verdict

1:43

by then from the Supreme Court on the immunity

1:45

case, which we do not have currently. I

1:48

thought maybe we get some

1:50

decisions today, but they didn't do anything. Yeah,

1:52

no, we should have something by then. But

1:54

it's Thursday evening. I'm pretty sure we're going to

1:56

have something by then. It would be a surprise

1:58

if I kicked it over. We'll see.

2:00

OK. Well, since we don't have those,

2:03

we don't have anything from the Supreme Court, I

2:05

want to start with the New York hush money case, because

2:08

on Tuesday, the New York Court of Appeals,

2:10

which is the highest work in New York,

2:12

declined to hear Trump's gag order appeal, and

2:15

the court dismissed the appeal upon the

2:17

ground that no substantial constitutional question is

2:19

directly involved. What do you think? Good

2:21

call? I think that

2:23

no substantial constitutional question was directly involved.

2:27

I think they were right. After,

2:29

on this record, I don't know how the

2:31

gag order could not be sustained. And

2:34

so he loses again.

2:37

I think the real question would be to what

2:40

extent the gag order restrictions will remain

2:42

in place going

2:44

forward in the future. But I

2:47

think this was an appeal of what his prior

2:49

challenges to the gag order, which were meritless

2:52

and remain meritless. I think the question will

2:55

be exactly who will he

2:57

be restrained from in the future going

2:59

after. I think it definitely

3:01

should be jurors. I think maybe not. I

3:04

think the question of whether or

3:06

not he can talk about witnesses now is a little

3:08

bit less

3:10

significant as a practical

3:12

matter, because he's guilty and witnesses

3:15

all testified. I mean,

3:17

he's still subject to gag orders in

3:19

these other cases, and particularly the one

3:21

in D.C., where all

3:23

the people he dealt with in

3:26

his administration who now may

3:28

testify against him are potentially

3:30

the subject of his ire.

3:33

And that could get him into trouble in the future. Okay,

3:35

so I wanted to ask you about the gag order, because

3:37

he's going into this debate, right? And

3:39

he's going to get asked about these court

3:41

cases. And if Biden's doing anything right, he's

3:43

at least playing some offense on

3:46

these court cases. How does a

3:48

gag order across the board here impact what he

3:50

can say during the debate? Well,

3:53

I mean, I think, I mean,

3:55

to the extent the gag orders

3:57

involve witnesses in cases that he.

4:00

that are still in play.

4:02

I mean, he can't talk specifically about

4:04

witnesses, but he can make general declarations

4:06

of innocence. He can actually

4:09

attack the court, which he's been, you

4:11

know, he figured out he was free to do for a

4:13

very long period of time. And

4:15

he's gonna declare his innocence. He can do all of

4:17

those things. There's nothing that prevents him. What he can't

4:19

do is he can't say that

4:21

so-and-so who's gonna test Mark Meadows, I don't know,

4:23

I'm just picking a name out of a hat

4:26

who my or who's gonna test. I suppose he

4:28

thinks Mark Meadows is gonna give bad testimony when

4:30

he's in January 6th trial in the future. I

4:33

mean, he can't trash individuals like

4:35

that. But I don't think

4:37

it's necessarily rational for him to wanna

4:39

do that, because that just gets him

4:42

into the muck of what he's accused

4:44

of. Of course, just

4:47

because it would be irrational

4:49

for him to get into that level of detail doesn't

4:51

mean that he wouldn't just make

4:53

stuff up about these people and talk about them

4:56

and get himself into trouble, because that's Donald Trump.

4:58

He can't control himself. Well,

5:00

this is where I have sort of a broad

5:02

observation about things that are helping Trump, right? If

5:05

you asked me what is the best thing that

5:07

ever happened to Donald Trump, it would be getting

5:09

kicked off Twitter, right? Because

5:12

everybody who imposes a gag order

5:14

on Trump is basically helping Trump.

5:17

When I think about the debates that's upcoming

5:19

and the rules that are gonna be helpful

5:21

to Trump, the fact that they're gonna cut

5:24

off the mics after your time

5:26

is up, to me is a

5:28

huge benefit for Trump. I agree with that. I

5:30

would just let him, I would

5:32

give, what I

5:34

would do is I would give them the

5:36

power to cut him off, but

5:39

I wouldn't necessarily cut him off when he's ranting

5:41

and raving, because I think American people need to

5:43

see that. And I think the real question is

5:45

how is CNN going to exercise that

5:48

prerogative? I

5:50

don't think, you know, is it gonna

5:52

be necessarily immediate, or are they gonna

5:55

hold a little bit on the trigger

5:57

finger because it'll...

6:00

make things a little more exciting and more interesting

6:02

and frankly more informative for the American public. I

6:04

absolutely agree with you. We

6:06

want this guy foaming at the mouth and he will phone

6:08

with the mouth and he'll give him the opportunity. I think

6:10

one of the things that Biden campaign needs to do going

6:13

into this debate over Monday, Tuesday,

6:16

Wednesday of next week is

6:18

start going after Trump in ways that make

6:21

him very annoyed. Talking about

6:23

the convictions, making fun of his slurred speech,

6:25

doing all of those things, but doing it

6:27

in overdrive in the three or four days

6:29

leading to the debate and doing

6:32

everything you can to basically create

6:36

narcissistic injury in this very deranged

6:38

and very disordered

6:41

individual who

6:43

can't really take the criticism, can't take

6:46

the heat and can't take the specifics

6:48

of what he has done and

6:50

what he, you know, about his

6:52

own, the facts of his

6:54

own life. Yeah, you know,

6:57

I was thinking about your views on

6:59

Trump's narcissism just as it relates to

7:02

how he's been the last, I

7:04

don't know, since

7:06

he was, since he has basically been out

7:08

of the White House, he has cocooned himself

7:11

in a right wing ecosystem that

7:13

is so friendly, so

7:15

devoted to him that like he

7:18

doesn't take much of a punch ever,

7:20

you know, nobody, he doesn't, nobody's

7:23

ever going after him, right? He's always

7:25

with syncophants, always with people who don't

7:27

challenge him. And so I wonder

7:31

if Biden is able to go on offense

7:33

to some degree, and I think that it

7:35

would really behoove Biden from a number of

7:37

ways, both from a sense of like, oh,

7:39

look at Biden the fighter, look at Biden

7:41

taking it to Trump, Biden looks sharp. And

7:43

I think Biden is at his sharpest when

7:46

he's engaging back and forth, like in the

7:48

State of the Union, his

7:50

best moments were when Republicans were heckling him and

7:52

he was pushing back. Yeah, no,

7:54

he gets energized. I mean, he's a you

7:56

know, he's got that's has that Irish in

7:58

him. Gets the Irish. makes

10:00

him look weak and small because he doesn't

10:02

really have many friends. And

10:04

once he's out of that cocoon, as you point out, Sarah,

10:10

he doesn't have any protection. It's

10:12

time for today's Lucky Land Horoscope with

10:15

Victoria Cash. Life's gotten

10:17

mundane, so shake up the daily routine

10:19

and be adventurous with a trip to

10:21

Lucky Land. You know what they say,

10:23

your chance to win starts with a

10:25

spin. So go to luckylandslots.com to play

10:27

over 100 social casino style games for

10:29

free for your chance to redeem some

10:32

serious prizes. Get Lucky today

10:34

at luckylandslots.com. Available

10:37

to players in the U.S., excluding Washington and Michigan. No

10:39

purchase necessary. VGW Group, void rep prohibited by law. 18

10:41

plus, terms and conditions supply. With

10:44

Lucky Land Sluts, you can get Lucky

10:46

just about anywhere. This

10:48

is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway

10:50

and the weather's fine, but we're just gonna

10:52

circle up here a while and get Lucky.

10:54

No, no, nothing like that. It's just these

10:57

cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest you

10:59

sit back, keep your tray table upright and So

11:01

can't getting Lucky. Play

11:03

for free at luckylandslots.com. Are

11:05

you feeling lucky? and purchase

11:07

necessary. Voidware prohibited by law, law.

11:09

18 plus terms and conditions apply.

11:11

See website for details. Yeah,

11:14

you know, you must have prepared lots

11:16

of people for big moments, right? Or

11:18

you yourself must have prepared for big

11:20

moments to be up in front of

11:22

the Supreme Court. Arguing cases.

11:24

So there's a lot of prep in

11:26

those things, making sure you

11:29

like figure out. Preparing witnesses

11:31

to testify is the big one. Totally. So

11:34

like, how would you prep Joe Biden

11:36

for this? Because I got to say, you've

11:38

said a couple of things in here that I think are interesting,

11:41

but I would view as a challenge if I

11:43

was prepping him because you want him to both

11:45

be presidential, right? Look like he

11:48

has command of things, Joe Biden, while

11:50

also sort of pushing

11:52

Trump, but without doing it in such a way

11:54

that it looks unserious. Yeah, I mean, I think

11:56

that that's exactly right. I mean, I don't think

11:58

this is... This is not going to be a

12:00

policy debate. So we don't, I wouldn't

12:02

have the president pouring over

12:05

policy items because he actually, he's extremely

12:08

well versed in the policy items. He

12:10

doesn't really need help in that regard.

12:12

There may be three or four things

12:14

that he'll want to emphasize, factoids

12:17

and accomplishments that he'll want to

12:19

emphasize from time to time. But

12:22

by and large, what I'd be doing is I'd

12:24

be preparing him to attack Trump in very relatively

12:32

gentle tone, in

12:34

a relatively gentle tone, by just saying matter of fact,

12:37

my opponent is

12:39

an adjudicated rapist. My opponent is a

12:41

convicted felon. My opponent is a pathological

12:44

liar. My opponent lies about everything. I

12:46

just say it in a matter of

12:48

fact way and

12:52

then when Trump reacts to it, have

12:54

a series of one-liners saying, this

12:56

is exactly my point. He cannot

12:58

handle this. He's

13:01

not well. Look at him.

13:03

He's about to lose it. Do you need to

13:05

talk to your lawyers, Donald? Do you need

13:07

to talk to your shrink? No, I wouldn't do the shrink thing

13:09

maybe, but that's the kind of

13:12

thing. Just practicing the attitude, I think,

13:14

is going to, is the

13:18

most essential thing. And the other thing about Donald Trump and

13:20

preparing for debate for Donald Trump, I've never done it. I

13:24

defer to people who actually have done it. If

13:28

you took the last 15 speeches

13:31

he's given, rambling,

13:33

craziness, you

13:36

could get two things out of them. One

13:38

is you're going to get about five or

13:40

six things, maybe 10 or 15, that you

13:42

know he absolutely will say because

13:45

he says the same things over and

13:47

over again. The man has not

13:49

had an original thought since 1987. So

13:53

it's like he's

13:55

easy to prepare for. You

13:58

know what his pitches are. good.

14:00

There are the same pitches and they're usually in

14:02

the same order. And

14:04

so I think he's not

14:07

that hard to prepare for. And

14:10

in terms of, I

14:12

mean, I think this is going to be at

14:14

all attitudinal and it's

14:19

going to be a lot of theatrics. And

14:21

I think it's about drawing him out and

14:23

making him look like the crazed lunatic that

14:25

he actually is. And I think

14:28

Joe Biden will be successful in this if that's what

14:30

they're going to try to do, which is what they

14:32

should do. Because, you know, I

14:35

mean, he's got one

14:38

billion times the emotional intelligence of

14:40

Donald Trump. Hey, y'all, it's

14:42

Tim Miller and I'm the host of the Bulwark podcast,

14:44

which comes out every weekday afternoon, rain

14:47

or shine, hangover or no hangover.

14:49

Here's what's special about this podcast

14:51

and my colleagues at the Bulwark.

14:53

Number one, we're all united in

14:55

a mission to preserve democracy and

14:57

defeat the bad orange man. Number

14:59

two, as outcast Republicans, we have

15:01

no future career prospects in government.

15:03

So we can tell you the

15:05

truth. No BS. And number three,

15:07

as we get to the home stretch of the election, there's

15:09

going to be good days and there's going to be bad

15:11

days. So you're going to need a place

15:13

where you can come, where you can

15:15

hear from experts who can talk about

15:17

what's important in the fight to defeat

15:19

Donald Trump. So check out the Daily

15:21

Bulwark podcast with all your Never Trumper

15:24

favorites, plus a diverse array of guests

15:26

with different perspectives and backgrounds who are

15:28

ready to talk about the news of

15:30

the day. Find the Bulwark podcast on

15:32

Apple podcasts, YouTube, Spotify or wherever you

15:34

get your podcasts. You

15:38

know, the interesting thing about trying to debate Trump is

15:40

that I think

15:42

for Joe Biden, he can't really go too

15:44

hard. I mean, he

15:47

needs to look presidential, but also for Joe

15:49

Biden right now. So much of this debate

15:51

is about him showing he can do the job.

15:54

Right? Like people want to see state of

15:56

the union, Joe Biden. They want to see

15:58

like if he's a little ago. aggressive, good,

16:00

like that, that is going to help. He's

16:02

got a, he's got a, you know, the

16:05

right wing media ecosystem has

16:07

just nothing but feed people,

16:09

images of Joe Biden that look like

16:11

he is in a senior citizen's home

16:13

being spoon fed oatmeal. And when he

16:15

exceeds those expectations. He's on

16:17

drugs. Yeah, he's on drugs, right? Like

16:20

Trump's already out there. He's on drugs, they got him

16:22

jumped up. Yeah, Trump's already out there

16:24

trying to like lower expectations by being

16:26

like, wow. Which is very unusual for

16:28

Trump. That's very unusual for him. Well, you

16:30

know, it's funny. I was on with Maggie Haberman on CNN

16:33

last night. I had her say Cooper and she was saying

16:35

she had new reporting. This is Trump

16:37

is preparing very hard for this. And

16:39

he's actually preparing. Look, I mean,

16:41

Maggie knows, Maggie knows

16:43

more than anybody about what's going on in

16:45

Trump world at any given time. And

16:48

I'm sure they are trying to prep him, but my

16:50

understanding of what the preps have been in the past,

16:53

both from reading it in the newspaper

16:55

and hearing otherwise is that he

16:58

doesn't actually do debate prep the way you

17:00

or I would do debate prep. You or

17:02

I would stand up with a podium and

17:05

we'd have somebody dressed up as Donald

17:07

Trump, if we were, you know, President

17:09

Biden. And we

17:11

practice one liners, we practice

17:14

answering particular kinds of questions,

17:16

we practice, you know, and we'd have, you

17:19

know, I mean, that's what my

17:21

friend Philippe Raines did in 2016. Apparently

17:25

not sufficiently well. He

17:28

played Donald Trump in prepping

17:31

Hillary Clinton. I mean, I love Philippe. I'm sure Philippe did

17:33

the best job he could. But

17:37

he doesn't do it that way. He doesn't like

17:39

doing it that way. He wants to sit around

17:41

at a table and listen to

17:43

people talk and then talk over them, which

17:46

is what he does. I mean, it

17:48

reminds me of one time there was this violence

17:51

about trying to prep a guy for

17:53

a Supreme Court oral argument. And he

17:55

just said, instead of actually standing up to the podium

17:58

where we thought we were going to ask him. questions

18:00

and pretend to be justice as he just said, I

18:02

just want to come in and, you know, talk

18:04

about the case. And it's kind of like what Donald

18:06

Trump does. I don't, I don't

18:08

know that that's particularly effective. Um,

18:11

but I don't know what would be effective with this

18:13

man. I mean, really with him, it's going to be

18:15

a function. His success in this

18:17

debate, Donald Trump is going to be, to agree

18:19

to which he's able to exercise emotional control for

18:22

90 minutes or two hours or whatever

18:24

the, the time limit is. And that's why you saw, I

18:26

think, I don't know if you saw the clips this morning,

18:28

but there was a clip I saw on Twitter of,

18:31

um, Newt Gingrich basically saying Donald

18:33

Trump has to be calm and

18:35

presidential. And it's like, dude,

18:38

when have we ever seen that? So,

18:41

um, you know, this

18:43

is the thing is that if Donald Trump, the

18:46

best thing he could do for himself is to

18:48

say very little and just be chill. Like

18:50

if he could do that, because he lost, in

18:52

my opinion, he lost the election. Last

18:55

in 2020 during that first

18:57

debate. I remember going to focus groups after that

18:59

first debate and people were like, just

19:02

happened. Why, what was that? And,

19:05

and people sometimes, you know, it's,

19:07

it's interesting. Um, because this

19:10

time you have these two functional incumbents, uh,

19:12

and you'd be some things that

19:14

don't usually matter like vice presidents,

19:18

uh, or debates. Uh,

19:20

I think they matter a ton

19:22

this time. And they matter more last century because we

19:25

were in COVID and they weren't like campaigning as much.

19:27

And so it was a, one of the bitter opportunities

19:29

to see them, but Trump coming out, fooling at the

19:31

mouth and Joe Biden standing there just being like, would

19:34

you shut up, man? Like that, that

19:36

was, I mean, and I think

19:38

he could, I think Joe could have done a better job

19:40

than I think he got a little mad that you don't

19:42

really want to show that you're mad. You want to show,

19:45

look at this guy. Yeah. Seriously.

19:48

That that's the attitude he's got to convey. And I think,

19:50

I mean, I think, I mean, I don't

19:53

actually, when I think about it, there are very few

19:55

politicians in American life

19:57

today, I think they'd handle that.

20:00

way Joe Biden could. I think

20:02

he's actually got the perfect emotional makeup

20:04

for it, and I

20:06

think he's going to do a great job. And

20:09

so that's the way I see this

20:11

shaping out. And I think the real

20:13

key for the Trump people is to

20:15

try to keep this guy under emotional

20:18

raps for 90 minutes

20:21

without falling asleep. That's the trick he used in the courthouse.

20:23

He can't use that. But

20:26

he's got to

20:28

disassociate himself from all of his anger

20:30

and all of the things that trigger him. And

20:36

he may not come in the way, I think

20:38

he's been told, look, that first debate in October

20:40

in Cleveland where you gave your opponent, you

20:43

tried to kill your opponent with

20:45

the virus. Just joking. That

20:50

was terrible. That didn't work out. People didn't like

20:52

that. So I'm sure he's been told that a

20:54

thousand times since then, then, and

20:57

since. And so I think he's not

20:59

going to, I think he's even said at some point,

21:01

I think he was quoted somewhere saying he understands he

21:04

can't go in, you know, loaded for

21:06

bear the way he was four years ago. But

21:08

that said, the

21:10

Biden campaign needs to bring some of that

21:12

back by poking at him. And

21:14

they need to start poking at him on Monday

21:16

morning, you know, just get

21:19

all the way to Atlanta. Okay.

21:22

Do whatever they can to so

21:25

that he hears Joe Biden

21:27

and Joe Biden surrogates making

21:30

fun of him and

21:32

talking about his 34 felony convictions

21:36

and his rape verdict and

21:38

the defamation verdict and that he's a fraudster

21:41

and that he doesn't, you know, he doesn't, he

21:44

doesn't know Estonia from

21:46

Latvia. I don't know. Whatever you

21:49

actually confuse. Neither do most voters

21:52

with the Balkans once. No,

21:55

he's so he's just so out of it. Donald

21:58

Trump is Okay,

22:00

we got a piece of bills really

22:02

quickly and it's good news, George. We've

22:04

got your favorite sponsor today. We got

22:06

Factor. Which one? Factor. Factor,

22:09

okay. I know, you've got several favorites, but here

22:11

we go. A warmer, sunnier days keep coming and

22:14

you need to fuel up for them with Factor's

22:16

no prep, no mess meals. We

22:18

all have wellness goals. We try to meet

22:20

before and during summer and you can use

22:22

Factor's menu of chef-crafted meals with options like

22:24

calorie smart, protein plus, and keto to achieve

22:27

them. Factor's fresh, never frozen

22:29

meals are dietician approved and ready to eat

22:31

in just two minutes. So no matter how

22:33

busy you are, you'll always have time to

22:35

enjoy nutritious, great tasting meals. You'll

22:37

have over 35 different options to choose from

22:40

every week, including calorie smart, protein plus, and keto,

22:42

and there are more than 60 add-ons

22:44

to help you stay fueled up and feeling good all

22:46

day long. And you can choose from- And you

22:48

can choose straight up. And you got the app. And

22:51

you can choose from six menu preferences

22:53

to help you manage calories, maximize protein

22:55

intake, avoid meat, or simply eat a

22:57

well-balanced meal. You could

22:59

also discover a wide variety of easy options

23:01

for the entire day, like breakfast, midday bites,

23:03

and more. Treat yourself to restaurant quality meals

23:05

that feature premium ingredients like- Alapeno

23:07

lime cheddar chicken. Filet

23:10

mignon, shrimp, and blackened salmon. Okay,

23:12

George, tell us what you like. Give

23:15

us your favorites. I

23:17

like the chicken things. Let me go, here's

23:19

one I like. This

23:22

is the alapeno lime cheddar

23:24

chicken. Yeah. Very good. Nice.

23:27

All right. There's

23:30

a lot of other good stuff here. Head

23:32

to factormeals.com/AskGeorge50 and use the

23:34

code AskGeorge50 to get 50%

23:37

off your first box plus 20%

23:40

off your next month. That's

23:42

code AskGeorge50 at factormeals.com/AskGeorge50 to

23:44

get 50% off your first

23:46

box plus 20%

23:49

off your next month while

23:51

your subscription is active. Awesome.

23:53

Oh, can I? Tomato, basil,

23:56

cavatappi, and Italian sausage. Look at

23:58

that. You know, so- don't quite factor

24:00

should get it. We should do like a George, you

24:03

know, favorite meals list or something. I'm just going to

24:05

have lunch. See ya. No,

24:08

no, no. Cause we got to talk about Mar-a-Lago in

24:10

the classified documents case. There's a little bit there. Cause

24:13

it's a better food than you get at Mar-a-Lago. I'm sure.

24:17

It's a busy week or two in judge

24:20

Keihan's courtroom down in Florida. First of all,

24:22

on Monday, judge Keihan denied another of Trump's

24:24

motions to dismiss the case, right? That was

24:26

good. Yes. Yeah.

24:31

Well, I mean, you know, I mean, it's fine. It's

24:35

fine. Well, the question is, what's she going to

24:37

do from now on in? I mean, I don't

24:39

know. I have no idea. I mean, she's hearing

24:42

these crazy motions on

24:45

whether or not the special counsel

24:47

is properly constitutionally

24:49

appointed, which he clearly is.

24:52

But part of me wants like

24:54

hopes like, okay, maybe you want to

24:56

get that wrong. Maybe we want her to get that

24:58

wrong. And throw

25:01

out the case. And that would bring her

25:03

up to the court of appeals. And

25:06

maybe, maybe,

25:08

maybe, maybe they'll throw her off the case. I

25:10

mean, I think one of these days that could

25:12

happen. And, you know, one of

25:15

these days, if she does something sufficiently

25:17

screwy enough, that, I

25:19

mean, that's the best. I think

25:21

the course of justice would be best impacted

25:24

by that sequence of

25:26

event or her making one more egregious error

25:28

and getting tossed off the case. And then

25:30

maybe that's a better question. I need you

25:32

to explain this Jack Smith thing to

25:34

me because I don't really understand. So

25:36

we're recording this on Thursday. And so

25:38

on Friday, tomorrow, Cannon's holding a hearing

25:40

on the question of whether Jack Smith's

25:42

appointment as a special prosecutor was unconstitutional.

25:45

Why would it be unconstitutional? The

25:48

way, what's an issue here is the

25:50

kind of officer the

25:53

special counsel is. And the

25:55

constitution effectively distinguishes between two kinds

25:57

of officers in the executive branch.

26:00

branch, leaving apart the president and

26:02

the vice president, who are constitutional officers. The

26:05

Constitution distinguishes between principal

26:08

officers and inferior officers.

26:10

And basically what it says is that

26:13

principal officers have to be appointed by

26:15

the president, subject to the vice and

26:17

consent of the Senate. They have to

26:19

be Senate confirmed. And all

26:22

other officers, the inferior officers, they

26:25

can, there are different methods by

26:28

which Congress can designate those

26:30

people to be appointed. They can

26:32

be even appointed by judges if

26:34

Congress so chooses. In fact, U.S.

26:36

attorneys can be chosen by judges

26:38

if there is not a

26:41

Senate con from me available.

26:46

And so what the argument is

26:48

by Steve Calabresi, who's

26:50

a professor of law at

26:54

Northwestern, has this screwball argument

26:56

that he's been making since 2017, after

26:59

the Mueller

27:01

appointment, that we're arguing

27:03

that a special counsel appointed

27:07

pursuant to the Department of Justice regulations by

27:09

the attorney general is

27:11

not an inferior

27:13

officer and must be Senate confirmed. And

27:15

the argument is based on a number

27:17

of faulty premises. One of

27:19

them is that somehow, just because U.S. attorneys

27:22

are confirmed by the Senate,

27:24

then therefore they are

27:26

superior officers, not inferior

27:29

officers, and therefore a

27:33

special counsel is the equivalent. And that's just

27:35

baloney because all

27:38

it takes for somebody to be an inferior officer is

27:40

that they report to somebody. And

27:43

the U.S. attorneys report to the attorney general.

27:45

They actually don't need to be Senate confirmed

27:47

except that Congress provided that they should be

27:49

Senate confirmed. And so

27:51

the same is true of basically everybody

27:53

else who works in the Department of

27:55

Justice other than the attorney general because

27:59

everybody reports to them. the Attorney General, and the Attorney

28:01

General, of course, reports to the President. And

28:03

so there is just no decent,

28:06

no sensible argument. And

28:09

it's amazing that the court is

28:11

even holding oral argument on this.

28:13

There's no sensible argument that the

28:15

special counsel who was appointed by

28:18

the Attorney General, who can be

28:20

fired by the Attorney General, whose

28:22

office can be created, modified, or

28:24

abolished by a regulation written

28:27

by or amended by the Attorney

28:29

General. There's no basis to conclude that he's

28:31

anything but an officer that's inferior to the

28:33

Attorney General in the United States, which is

28:36

all that matters. Now, why

28:38

she's taking it that seriously? I mean, is it just

28:41

because she doesn't know any better? Is it because she's

28:43

trying to run out the clock for Trump? I

28:46

cannot tell you. It's probably some kind of,

28:48

I don't know. I mean, it's probably some

28:50

combination of motives there

28:52

that I can't quite figure out. And

28:57

this motion shouldn't be given the time of

28:59

day. I mean, it was litigated in the

29:01

Mueller era into the

29:03

D.C. Circuit, the U.S. Court of Appeals

29:06

for the District of Columbia Circuit, and

29:08

they roundly rejected it in a very,

29:10

very persuasive opinion. And there's

29:15

no argument that this

29:17

guy, I mean, who is the preacher of

29:19

the Department of Justice Regulation is not inferior

29:21

to the person

29:23

who wrote the regulation, which is the Attorney General in

29:26

the United States. I'm

29:28

Victoria Cash. Thanks for calling the Lucky

29:30

Land Hotline. If you feel like you

29:32

do the same thing every day, press

29:34

one. If you're ready to have some

29:36

serious fun for the chance to redeem

29:39

some serious prizes, press two. We

29:41

heard you loud and clear. So go

29:44

to luckylandslots.com right now and play over

29:46

100 social casino style

29:48

games for free. Get Lucky today at luckylandslots.com.

30:00

Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure

30:02

if you know this about me, but I'm

30:04

a bit of a fun fanatic when I

30:06

can. I like to work, but I like

30:08

fun too. It's a thing. And now the

30:10

truth is out there. I can tell you

30:12

about my favorite place to have fun. Chumba

30:14

Casino. They have hundreds of social casino style

30:17

games to choose from with new games released

30:19

each week. You can play for free anytime,

30:21

anywhere, and each day brings a new chance

30:23

to collect daily bonuses. So join me in

30:25

the fun. Sign up now at chumbacasino.com. No

30:27

purchase necessary. VTW. We're prohibited by law. See

30:29

terms and conditions. make

32:00

a bad argument. Because

32:02

I, you know, I mean, if he, if she grants

32:04

one of these crazy motions that he proffers

32:07

out there, I mean, and it's really

32:09

a no brainer, which

32:11

it is, you know, I think,

32:13

I think there's a chance he could get, he could get her

32:15

kicked off the case. And that would be, you know, that would

32:18

be, it's not gonna help us this year, or, you know, it's

32:20

not gonna matter this year because this case is never gonna go

32:22

to trial in 2024. But

32:24

I do believe that, you know, ultimately he should be

32:26

brought to justice for these, you know,

32:28

these are the open and shut

32:30

crimes of the century. Totally.

32:35

All right, well, we're still waiting for the

32:37

immunity decision from the Supreme Court, and we're

32:39

really close to the end. So

32:41

we should get it soon. Do you wanna make any

32:43

predictions? Like if you had any? No,

32:45

I mean, the one prediction I will make is

32:47

that he will lose, big, he

32:50

will lose his argument that there,

32:52

you know, that he has some kind of

32:55

an absolute immunity from criminal prosecution. I think

32:57

what the

32:59

wrinkle may end up being, and

33:02

I can't say for sure. I mean, it's

33:05

to read tea leaves on

33:07

exactly how everybody's gonna vote for that

33:09

oral argument transcript is a treacherous task.

33:11

But I do think there

33:13

is something to the view, and

33:17

I think the best expression of

33:20

it is from Professor Trevor Morrison

33:22

of NYU, who

33:24

basically says that he

33:26

could see the court making,

33:29

you know, saying yes, generally speaking,

33:31

there is no specialized special immunity

33:33

for the president. But

33:36

if there were a statute that

33:38

were passed or were applied

33:40

that would unduly infringe

33:46

the president's core powers, as

33:48

defined in, you know, the

33:50

famous case, the Youngstown-Thiele-Sheesar seizure

33:52

case, which is, I

33:54

think, familiar to kids

33:56

who take American government in high school. Yeah,

34:00

there could be some circumstances where it

34:03

would be unconstitutional because you would be harming

34:06

the President's ability to do his job. But

34:09

that's not even remotely at issue

34:12

here. So, you know,

34:14

I think it's very possible that we're

34:16

going to get a relatively clean decision

34:18

that will actually enable a

34:21

trial to occur sometime

34:24

in the fall. I

34:26

don't think it would be completed in the

34:28

fall, but it could easily

34:30

start in the fall. I'm not sure necessarily

34:33

that that is a good thing politically anymore.

34:35

I thought it would be a good thing

34:37

politically to get the thing going as soon

34:39

as possible. But, you know, one of the

34:41

things we saw with

34:44

the New York trial is

34:46

it kept Trump off of people's radar screens,

34:48

much the way he was platforming on Twitter

34:50

did. And so I don't know.

34:52

I don't know. I don't necessarily think

34:56

it's going to be helpful to get him off the

34:58

campaign trail. I think the American people need to see

35:00

as much of him as possible. So,

35:03

you know, I'm kind of now of

35:05

two minds of whether

35:08

I'd like the timing of the case

35:10

at this point, even if

35:12

it goes to trial before the

35:14

election. I mean, we want to see this

35:17

man babbling

35:19

and screaming and saying

35:21

crazy stuff everywhere. And

35:24

if he's tied up in a Washington courtroom playing

35:26

the victim, I don't know whether that's necessarily going

35:28

to help, particularly in a case where

35:30

the witnesses aren't going to, you know, the testimony isn't

35:33

going to be televised.

35:36

Yeah. So that's a new viewpoint.

35:38

That viewpoint of mine has

35:42

changed over time. I mean, I would have preferred to

35:45

see the trial much earlier. I think all

35:47

of these trials should have been conducted earlier.

35:49

I think the Mar-a-Lago case should have been

35:51

tried in the spring,

35:53

and he'd be guilty by now. He

35:56

doesn't have a defense in that case. So

35:58

I wish. all of these things

36:01

that happen more quickly but they haven't and you know

36:03

that's fine at the end of the day he's

36:06

gonna show his face to the American people next

36:08

Thursday and we're gonna see a lot more of

36:10

them and people are gonna know what kind of

36:12

a sicko he really is. With

36:15

Luckyland Sluts, you can get lucky

36:17

just about anywhere. This

36:19

is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and

36:21

the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle

36:23

up here a while and get lucky. No,

36:26

no, nothing like that. It's just these cash

36:28

prizes add up quick, so I suggest you

36:30

sit back, keep your tray table upright, and

36:32

start getting lucky. Play

36:34

for free at luckylandsluts.com. Are

36:37

you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. Void

36:39

where prohibited by law. 18 plus

36:41

terms and conditions apply. See website for

36:44

details. This summer don't be left without

36:46

air conditioning call care heating and cooling

36:48

and get on a care plan to

36:50

protect your family. With a care plan

36:52

you get system maintenance and priority service

36:54

in case of emergency giving you peace

36:56

of mind. Plus a well-maintained air conditioner

36:58

runs more efficiently and saves you money.

37:00

At care their service technicians are paid

37:02

to fix your AC not sell you

37:04

a new one and their award-winning team

37:06

is available seven days a week. Call

37:08

care today at 1-800-COOLING or book an

37:10

appointment online at care heating

37:12

and cooling.com. When you need a company

37:14

you can trust. Yeah

37:16

I really agree that what we saw in

37:19

the New York hushway case of him being

37:21

in the

37:23

courtroom and just like coming out and making these

37:25

statements and it keeping him off the trail it

37:27

just it kept us looking backwards at

37:29

the you

37:32

know Stormy Daniels stuff which had

37:34

literally while it was literally being

37:36

litigated it had already been litigated

37:38

in the minds of voters and

37:40

so the earlier weekend or it

37:42

is better to get people looking

37:45

forward at the things that Trump will

37:47

do in a second term he'll

37:49

be the danger he'll be and so you know

37:52

I agree

37:54

with you that's a little tricky because you do want

37:57

the salience of January 6 to

38:00

be high, you do want people to remember it, man, I'll

38:03

tell you, voters have short memories. And so,

38:05

you know, if there was something going on that was

38:07

drawing people's attention to them, I don't

38:09

remember during the January 6th committee, it

38:11

really did have a like, depressing effect on

38:13

enthusiasm for Trump. Because it is, when

38:15

people are focused on it, they're like, oh,

38:17

that was really bad, you know? Right. Yeah,

38:21

I agree with that. I just think

38:23

that taking them

38:25

off the airwaves for six weeks before the

38:27

election could actually help them. I

38:30

do think, I do think I

38:32

would like to see some proceedings in the

38:34

case, just, I mean, just speaking out of,

38:37

purely politically, I wouldn't mind seeing

38:39

something come out that reminds people of

38:42

what happened on January 6th and puts pressure on

38:44

him so that he becomes defensive

38:47

about it and starts talking about the, you

38:49

know, protecting the hostages and pardoning the hostages

38:52

and all of the crazy stuff that he

38:54

says. I think that stuff is harmful

38:56

to Trump. So

38:58

I don't know, I mean, I think it's all

39:00

gonna come out in the wash anyway. I think we're gonna

39:03

hear a lot about January 6th, I think we're gonna hear

39:05

a lot about it from Trump. I

39:07

think that, I saw something interesting

39:09

yesterday, where basically a local news reporter,

39:11

I forget where he's from, but he

39:13

was basically talking about the outreach that

39:16

Trump campaign is making to local news

39:18

organizations. And essentially, if

39:20

you talk about the stolen election, we're

39:23

not gonna talk to you, is

39:25

basically what they're being told. Because

39:28

his handlers don't want him talking about

39:30

2020, they don't want him talking

39:32

about January 6th. Now, that's

39:35

a different thing from actually keeping him from

39:37

talking about it, but they actually

39:39

want reporters in local markets to

39:46

stay away from that because they don't wanna talk about it. They

39:49

don't want him talking about it. And, you know,

39:51

I think it's the job of the rest of us

39:54

to make that conversation happen because he'll

39:56

oblige us, okay? He wants to talk

39:58

about it. And I don't think... I

40:00

think that's one of the problems that we're going to see

40:03

over the next three months,

40:06

four months, is that Trump's

40:09

people and Trump are going to

40:12

be not on the same page about what Trump

40:14

wants to talk about. Right.

40:17

But that goes back to my point I think about

40:20

everybody protecting Trump from himself. Like,

40:23

I understand why the local news organizations are

40:25

doing it, but also, you

40:28

know, really annoys sort of swing

40:30

voters when Trump talks about 2020. They're

40:33

just like bored by it and find it

40:35

aggravating. The more he does

40:37

that, the more I think he turns off swing voters

40:39

and more it's about him and his grievances, not about

40:41

issues that voters care about. And

40:43

so again, everybody's sort of protecting Trump from

40:46

himself these days. Right. And

40:48

that is helping him out, although I will say... Right.

40:51

That's why I say that the object of

40:53

the Biden campaign and everybody working against Trump

40:56

is to provoke him into talking about these things

40:59

that his people don't want him talking about. And

41:01

it's really not that hard to do. So

41:05

anyway, that's... Well, and I will leave

41:07

you and our

41:09

listeners with, you

41:12

know, we have seen post-conviction

41:14

some real movement in the polls. And,

41:17

you know, there's just a big Fox News

41:19

poll that came out yesterday, showed

41:22

a big swing among independents where Joe

41:24

Biden is now winning in that poll

41:26

up by two points. But

41:28

the most important thing is that directionally there's an

41:30

NPR Marist poll, National Poll, there's been a bunch of

41:33

polling, says the conviction that is all directionally showing Joe

41:35

Biden. Starting to tick up a little bit. And

41:38

I don't think it's about the conviction, per se. Although

41:42

I do think that is something that I think

41:44

it's about Trump coming back into frame for people. Correct. And

41:47

I think the more people... I think it's a combination, yeah. The more

41:49

people, the Donald Trump. Yeah. The less

41:51

they like him, the more they remember, oh yeah,

41:53

this guy. This guy is the worst. Oh, they

41:55

remind me of Donald Trump. Yeah. They

41:58

remind me of Donald Trump. Yeah. those

42:00

press conferences that he had, and they

42:03

had to turn those off, and oh,

42:05

all the crazy stuff during COVID, oh

42:07

my gosh, yeah, no, it's miserable.

42:09

And that's gonna be part of what's going on in

42:13

the debate like we talked about. I mean, is he

42:15

gonna go off like a lunatic like

42:17

he did four years ago, and remind everybody of what

42:19

they didn't like? And the job of

42:22

the Biden campaign is to try to get him to do

42:24

that, to bait him into doing that. It may not happen

42:26

the first time, although I think it can if

42:28

it's, I

42:31

don't think he can emotionally control himself for

42:34

long periods of time. And I think sooner or later, we're gonna

42:36

see him go off the rails. All

42:40

right, George, as always, thank you for

42:42

explaining the legal news to me and

42:44

to our listeners. Yeah,

42:46

not as much legal news as there

42:49

is. Although we got a lot of legal news

42:51

coming down the pike. Next week is gonna be

42:53

a big monster show with the immunity

42:55

case, we'll be post-debate, and so

42:57

I can't wait to talk to you then. To

43:00

our listeners, don't forget to hit subscribe, leave

43:02

us a review on your podcast app, email

43:05

us at askgeorgeatthebullwork.com, and we will see you

43:07

guys next week. Bye. Well,

43:10

George Conway, he's a man with a

43:12

plan, got to sit down with Sarah

43:14

Longwell, take a stand, explain all the

43:16

legal problems they're piling high. With

43:19

Donald Trump, oh my, oh

43:21

my, oh my.

43:24

He said, Sarah, let me break

43:26

it down for you. There's obstruction

43:28

of justice, corruption to the legal

43:30

tangles and troubles that grow in

43:32

fast. It's a storm

43:35

that's gonna last and

43:37

last. Oh, Conway,

43:40

tell Longwell about it.

43:42

Those legal problems can't live

43:44

without it. From

43:47

the moment to the Russian ties.

43:52

Oh, Sarah, listen close.