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Taylor Yeah,

4:00

I mean you guys. How

4:05

much is this fucking foaming cleanser?

4:10

The foaming cleanser is $50. Right

4:14

now, the foaming face wash is

4:16

not getting a repurchase from me for $54, but

4:19

I've only used it three times. Let

4:22

me finish this bottle before I get back to you.

4:25

I'm going to need to see something big

4:27

and major and stunning for a cleanser. It's

4:37

Augustinus Bader. I'm

4:40

so sorry. I

4:42

need to get the name Augustinus Bader. Augustinus,

4:45

no wonder your stuff is $50.

4:48

That makes a lot of sense to me. Your

4:50

name is Augustinus. It's

4:52

very expensive. I

4:55

have used that moisturizer before, and

4:57

for me, the moisturizer is overpriced.

4:59

I'm sorry. You're paying for the

5:02

brand. You're paying for the price. These

5:04

proprietary ingredients of that moisturizer are not for me

5:06

killing it in this way. If I'm just

5:08

lighting money on fire and throwing it out the

5:10

window and want to treat myself, for sure. But

5:13

I just think there are other moisturizers that work just

5:16

as well, if not better. Also, the

5:18

moisturizer is very thick, and I

5:21

like thick, but I don't know, y'all. It's not... I

5:25

don't know. The jury's out for me

5:27

on the Augustinus Bader, but I

5:29

do enjoy the filming cleanser, but it's just very

5:31

expensive. I'm not trying to lay down the gauntlet.

5:34

If a formulator from Augustinus Bader wants to come

5:36

on pretty curious and tell us about it, why

5:39

I'm a big, silly girl gay who

5:42

should fucking keep my mouth shut because I

5:44

don't understand the luxuriousness of your formulas, you're

5:46

so welcome to come. I would love to

5:48

be proven wrong because maybe there's something I

5:50

don't know. Okay. Okay. So that's that. But before

5:52

we get into our episode of Pretty Curious, let's

5:55

hear a little taste of what we

5:57

talked about over on Table Manners. Wow,

5:59

we went straight into it. and we haven't even talked about what we eat.

6:01

Do we want to drink? Would you

6:03

like anything to drink? I have just water. I have

6:06

to do hair after this. So you don't want wine?

6:08

I can't drink and then do hair. Okay. I'll fuck

6:10

it up. What? Who's hair are you doing? I don't

6:12

know. It's like nice person named Irene, and I'm going

6:14

to put like some waves in her hair. So I

6:16

don't want to like burn her. Maybe that if you're

6:19

feeling a bit way, are we all

6:21

right? No? Yeah. Well, if you guys are

6:23

going to have a glass of wine, I'll have a glass.

6:25

No, you don't have to. I love that. I felt like

6:27

that was very peer pressure. No, let's do what I mean.

6:29

I love alcohol. Just because like the

6:31

president of GVN here, it's like right there. So

6:33

just trying to be responsible. I haven't drunk for

6:35

two days. Well done, mum. Let's celebrate with a

6:38

bottle. No, I'm always so impressed with myself. I'm

6:40

like, wow, like two days. Two days. I'm like

6:42

so anti inflamed. I feel almost abstinent. No,

6:45

mum, actually, shout out somebody that has sent us

6:47

some non-alcoholic wine. That looks beautiful. It looks very

6:49

beautiful. It's called Wednesday's Sameen. I don't know if

6:51

it's any good. We could taste test it here.

6:54

Where is it? Did you put some in the

6:56

fridge? Maybe two, and it won't be cold enough.

6:58

It looks very good. Yeah, let's have some good

7:00

stuff. No, that's not good. No,

7:03

let's have the real show. Yeah, let's go for the

7:05

bowl. Let's have the real show. You're white red. No,

7:07

I was just trying to be like responsible for three

7:09

seconds ago now. Don't be responsible. Yeah, Rosé. Rosé.

7:11

Yeah, that sounds nice. Are

7:16

you having a nice time? Yes, I've never had

7:18

more fun. This is if I can't

7:20

get over it. Can we go through

7:22

your discography? Like that sounds...

7:24

Do you want to do... I can start

7:26

doing that in mine. You're right. You're right.

7:28

We can... No, I'll call my texts. No,

7:31

I feel like one must acknowledge the elephant

7:33

in the room of the most beautiful rendition

7:35

of Spotlight during lockdown in your

7:37

kitchen. I remember. Your hair. I

7:40

mean... You are more graffitting everything.

7:42

I appreciated it. You know... I felt

7:44

very special. The way that you speak

7:46

to our community is so beautiful, and

7:49

it's so like in your bones. Thank

7:52

you. No, you're just like, you got it. I mean,

7:54

there's just... When you make music,

7:57

my gay body goes alight. And

7:59

it does. Like I feel like I can

8:01

control like my middle toe to your music. Like I am

8:03

just like so articulate in my body. And

8:06

I can also say ear muffs

8:08

for mom. The

8:10

best sex I've ever had in my life,

8:13

like consistently is to your music. Like when

8:15

people are like, what's your fuck albums? I

8:17

was like, anything. I just wear

8:19

anything. It's just like, Jessie, don't look shocked darling.

8:21

That's what you get. You know that that's like, it literally

8:23

makes me like, it makes me like, it's like, I want

8:26

a bottom, but I want to be in control. You know

8:28

what I mean? Like that's what

8:30

your music makes me feel like. Yes. You

8:32

know what I'm saying? Cheers to that. Thank you so

8:34

much. Cheers darling. Which should also make me

8:36

say, thank you. Because

8:38

none of us, none of this would have happened

8:41

without your majesty. Your fucking

8:43

majesty. And also let's change the subject one

8:45

more time. The face

8:47

frame on your hair cut is so

8:49

perfect and so fucking cute. No,

8:52

look at you and your red lip. Get

8:54

out of my fucking face. She has a

8:56

red lip every day. It's so timeless and

8:59

so gorgeous. It's so Taylor. I

9:01

wanted to know, do you think you've got good table manners?

9:04

No. Really? Yeah.

9:07

I eat really loud. I like put my elbows

9:09

on the table. I like chew with my mouth

9:12

open. A hot mess. Who cares? I think you're

9:14

perfectly fine. That's nice. I

9:17

didn't even put my napkin on my lap. Look at me, I'm a fucking

9:19

mess. Who would you like to

9:21

have if you had a dinner party? Who

9:24

would you like to have? Who would you invite? Are

9:26

they alive or dead? Anyone? We can have

9:28

them all. Well, after becoming fame,

9:30

I feel like I don't, I get weirder

9:32

about being like, oh, they're like decks. Oh

9:34

my God, they're families and they're people, but

9:36

this one, never, I'm never over it. It's

9:39

definitely Princess Diana and Whitney Houston. Oh,

9:42

really? Yeah. Good choice. I think they

9:44

made a good choice. Yeah. Which is

9:46

your favorite Whitney song? Okay, this is really controversial,

9:48

but I was vibing the fuck out of her

9:50

comeback album. I love

9:52

Million Dollar Bill. Me too. Fantastic.

9:55

That's my favorite. I also love I Look To You. Do you want

9:57

to hear a really funny story about I Look To You? Go on.

10:00

I was in rehab, that album

10:02

had just come out, but she hadn't passed away. And

10:04

I would go, I'd wake up in the morning and

10:06

I'd make all this like Folger's coffee. And then I

10:08

would go in the backyard of this rehab and I'd

10:11

be singing like, I Look To You by myself at

10:13

like 6.30 in the morning, but like not very loud.

10:15

Cause it was like 6.30 in the morning. So I'd

10:17

just be like, I look to you, I look to

10:19

you. And then this one day

10:21

I was singing and this lady across the fence, like

10:23

next door to us, I just heard this lady be

10:25

like, yeah, boy, you better sing that song. Come on,

10:27

sing that song. And I was like, oh my God,

10:30

thanks. And then I kept singing. Then like four people

10:32

started clapping. And I was like, you're

10:34

making concerts. So then, cause like, and then like in

10:36

rehab, like you only leave rehab to like go to

10:39

meetings, you know, it's like, you have to like all

10:41

go together. So we were like, I was like, who

10:43

is next door to us? Like the next time we

10:45

left the house, I went outside and I looked and

10:47

it was like this house. It was like a halfway

10:49

house for like black veteran women. And

10:52

so like, I had just been like singing Whitney Houston

10:55

with like my bad voice and like, I'm just like

10:57

waking them up in like the morning. They

11:00

were really sweet. Like, yeah, girl, you better sing

11:02

that song. But it didn't sound good. So I

11:04

just like really loved them for like, for

11:06

cheering me on, even though it didn't sound good. So

11:08

you wouldn't sing, I will always love you. I

11:11

mean, I'm not totally delusional. I

11:13

keep up with Whitney's like range a little bit more. Yeah,

11:15

but not at the, not at the peak. Not that note.

11:17

But I used to like really try to hit that note

11:19

in the car, but I wasn't just proud if I could

11:21

hold it that long. Yeah. You

11:23

know, you'd be able to answer this. I

11:25

have this disease where I can't harmonize. Like I'll

11:28

think I'm harmonizing, but then like the person I'm

11:30

with is like, that's the melody. And then I'm

11:32

like, okay, I'll do it again. Does that mean

11:34

you sing out of tune, darling? No, it's like,

11:36

I'm like too in tune. Like I can only

11:38

do the melody. I like can't do harmony. Like,

11:40

but you must know how to do harmonies because

11:42

you can probably do anything. I'm obsessed with harmonies.

11:45

And you do using your own harmonies. I

11:47

do harmonies to like, so like the kids

11:49

will be playing Imagine Dragons or Taylor in

11:51

the car and I'll be doing the harmony

11:53

and I know it annoys them. It's

11:56

so annoying for them. I think I finally got the harmony

11:58

on this one. like I did it by

12:00

myself on the funny. Okay, let's try it. How's it go? Give

12:04

me the original. She says, it's like, the

12:07

rain came pouring down

12:09

when I was drowning.

12:12

That's when I could finally breathe.

12:15

Okay, so that's the lead. Yeah. And

12:17

then what's the harm? But then my harm comes on

12:19

the next sentence, which is like, Oh, oh, oh. Well,

12:22

you just tell me if this is a harmony.

12:24

Okay. Because I can't tell. Okay. But

12:26

we have to do her version, Cleen

12:28

Taylor's version. And we got this. Not

12:31

on our watch, Scooter. I

12:36

can't look at you when I do it. Okay. Okay.

12:41

In the

12:43

morning. That's

12:45

a hominid. Was it? You guys can

12:47

only do that word. I could only do that word. I

12:49

was in the bathtub and I didn't. I was like, I

12:53

was like, no, I literally, I think I heard the buzz,

12:55

like in my pussy. Like my pussy, like, I like vibrated.

12:57

Like I got like the, and then so that I called

12:59

my best friend cause she's a singer. And

13:01

I was like, Oh my God, is this a harmony? And then she was

13:03

like, I can't tell because she like, That

13:06

was a harmony. It was right. Yeah. I

13:09

really had it so well in front of you. Every

13:12

my whole life was just like, I was

13:14

like, do you see how bad I'm sweating? Or I

13:16

was like, Oh my God. I was just

13:18

like, is this gonna happen? And then I did it.

13:20

I really delayed. You slayed the fuck out of

13:23

that harmony. There's like certain notes. You

13:26

did two notes. Oh yeah, two. Yeah.

13:31

Are you ready for some pudding? Was that not so much fun? I

13:33

like, I know I already said it once, but

13:36

if you don't listen to table manners, you're seriously

13:38

disturbed. It's so much fun. I loved getting to

13:40

meet Lenny and Jessie is just, you

13:42

can meet your heroes. I love her. Don't

13:45

you just love when someone

13:47

looks at you and says,

13:52

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more. And

14:58

now we're going to hop back over the podcast pond and get

15:00

into our pretty curious combo,

15:16

which actually did take place at the same time. So like

15:19

it was all over there, but whatever it's, but

15:21

whatever that's cute because we love a play of words. Jessica

15:24

Ware is an English singer and

15:26

songwriter. She came to prominence following

15:28

the release of her 2012 debut

15:30

studio album Devotion. Her fifth studio

15:32

album, That Feels Good, just came

15:35

out last year. Jessie has won

15:37

seven Brit Award nominations including one

15:39

for Best New Artist and four

15:41

for British Female Solo Artist and

15:43

two Mercury Prize nominations. In

15:46

2018, Jessie and her mom, Lenny,

15:48

began co-hosting the Table Manners podcast all

15:50

about family, food, and the art of

15:52

a good old chitchat. Okay, let's get

15:54

to it. Jessie, Lenny, pinched my queer

15:56

body. I cannot believe I'm, I'm literally

15:58

in Jessie Ware's house right now. now

16:00

you guys. My childhood home. Jesse, thank

16:02

you for having us. And Lenny is

16:04

Jesse's mother. She literally birthed the most

16:06

influential fucking artist. I

16:09

think our listeners, I can assuredly

16:11

say that they all know who Jesse Wier is. So

16:14

she needs no introduction, but Lenny,

16:16

I just curious from your perspective. I mean, when

16:19

did you know that you had like a full-on

16:21

celebrity on your hands? She sang from

16:23

birth. And when she

16:25

was little, was she like already a really good singer?

16:27

Yeah. And she used to do,

16:29

you used to sing Whitney Houston when you were seven.

16:33

Not necessarily well, but I loved, I loved

16:35

a diva. I loved a

16:37

big voice. But she's grown up with

16:39

Barbara in the house. Dusty. Dusty Springfield.

16:41

Yeah. Whitney. Yeah.

16:45

Yeah, we love a diva. And you just, cause obviously

16:47

people are listening, they're not watching. You are giving us

16:49

a gorgeous glam red lip Lenny. Yeah. Mike,

16:52

tell Jonathan it's the same red lip every time.

16:54

And it's Matt's factor Ruby Tuesday. You

16:58

know what red you might really like. It's

17:00

a little bit more math than that, but it's

17:02

in the same color family. Pat McGrath. No. Dragon

17:06

Girl by Nars. So

17:08

you knew that Jessie was going to be

17:10

a major ass queen when she was little.

17:13

No. But I

17:15

knew she could sing. I really wanted her to

17:17

be an opera singer. So I

17:19

sent her to me singing lessons. I

17:22

didn't force her to play the piano, which I should

17:25

have done. So she read music. But

17:27

she wasn't very keen on the first piano teacher. Well, he was

17:30

an alcoholic that's now of tune. And he's not of tune of

17:32

the show. Yeah. And he had about

17:34

three teeth. Then she did up

17:36

to grade eight music at secondary school.

17:39

Like in choir reading music. You did.

17:41

Lying. You did. What grade

17:43

did you go up to? I don't know,

17:45

but I bypassed the hard ones because I

17:47

couldn't read music. You're lying about that. Jessie,

17:49

you always got a commendation and you got

17:51

up to grade eight. The other thing was

17:53

that she sang the lead in all the

17:55

musicals at school. This is

17:57

Miss Adelaide. Jason

18:00

can develop a quilt. Guilty.

18:04

She's a baby theater girl. I mean,

18:06

did you see theater camp? Oh

18:08

yes. So good. It was so

18:11

good. So good. So cute. I

18:13

didn't do that here. I watched it on the plane and I

18:15

cried. Me too. I know. It's the

18:17

altitude, the red wine. Yeah, I love it. Yes. So

18:20

good. Yeah.

18:23

Did you growing up have any like unfortunate

18:25

beauty? Because I, and before I ask, I

18:27

will just say this. A

18:30

lot of my musician clients, I'm not accusing you because we

18:32

have, you never even been my client, but a lot of

18:35

my music clients could be some of my more tougher clients

18:37

wanting really intense changes on the hair. Like want to be

18:39

jet black, but then we want to bleach and tone. And

18:41

then I had to be like, honey, like your hair's going

18:43

to go through it. And then they think I was lying.

18:46

So then they go somewhere else and get their hair fried

18:48

off. And then I had to like fix it again before

18:50

their tour to make it like look exactly. It was just

18:53

some of the most challenging color corrections had been at the hands

18:55

of a musician and their whims, but not in me. So probably

18:58

like, have you ever just had like a just

19:01

hair emergency or like a fashion emergency, like growing up

19:03

and one that you remember? Apparently I'm having one now.

19:05

No, mom is not. I've

19:07

recently, I'm very gray Jonathan and everyone

19:09

that's listening. You're not very gray. Mom,

19:12

you're like seven silver hair. I'm really

19:14

gray. My dad went gray at like

19:16

20. I'm gray. I

19:19

have to go and get my hair dyed very

19:21

regularly. She's got the best hair in the world.

19:23

It's so bouncy and so sweet. So

19:26

I recently, my

19:29

wonderful hair stylist Patrick Wilson did not do

19:31

the color, but he was like, I love

19:33

Patrick. He's so good. And

19:35

he was like, let's go copper. Let's try it.

19:38

Let's have a copper moment. I was like, it

19:40

does come from Liverpool and his dog's called Silla.

19:42

There's the clue. She's about to

19:44

black with red head. No, so I went to my

19:46

colorist and anyway, she was like, look, we're going to

19:49

go a bit lighter because you, your

19:51

grays are showing a lot. Anyway,

19:53

potentially we've gone too light. However,

19:56

and I didn't realize I thought it was going to be

19:58

easier when you do this. You

22:00

don't talk to us like we don't know what

22:02

fucking champagne kisses is in this house. Well, I

22:04

decided... You can just say like when I was

22:06

filming champagne kisses. When I was filming champagne kisses,

22:08

I just had a straightening treatment, a keratin straightening

22:11

treatment, but I asked my hair stylist to cut

22:13

me a fringe. And so the

22:15

straightening... You had a bazooka fringe? It was like sticking

22:17

out. I call that a bazooka thing. It was not

22:19

fun. Yeah, you have to do the keratin that

22:21

you don't need to leave the salon like dry with. Like you need

22:23

to do the one where you can like rinse it and then re-blow

22:25

it. Yeah, I mean, so, but really I've

22:28

never done much to my hair. You're

22:30

very lazy with your hair. Apparently I'm

22:32

lazy with my makeup too, Lenny. You

22:34

are. Lenny, you're really giving us the

22:36

straight sheath today. She doesn't try hard. I don't try

22:38

hard, she says. You're making it look stunning today. Thank you.

22:41

And also, what I would say as

22:43

a performer, musician, entertainer, you bring the

22:45

fucking glam... You do try.

22:47

And the glam shines through so beautifully. So like when I'm

22:50

on, I do it. But when I'm off,

22:52

I'm... This is how I feel. Yes. Because

22:55

it's like when you are on camera and when you're like working on that, it's like when you're

22:57

like, like yesterday I was in the UK working, we were like

22:59

on, I was like doing a press tour all day. Yeah.

23:01

We got done at like four and Mark, my husband

23:04

was like, oh, do you want to go take a walk? And

23:06

I was like, I have to go home and take a shower

23:08

first. I didn't have like that much makeup on, but I just

23:10

like, I do. It's like when I'm off, I have like a

23:12

different vibe and I want to just be way more comfortable. How

23:15

do you put makeup on with your beard? I just like

23:17

don't put it on my beard and I put on the skin

23:19

like above it. And do you have to color your beard?

23:21

No. Do you see all this silver? I'm

23:23

the one that does it every day. Oh yeah. I

23:26

mean, I think that's why I just try to accept the silver. I

23:28

think Rylan does as well. Rylan. Yeah,

23:30

Rylan. I, yeah, he has really, we actually, we talked

23:33

about his hair this one day and together and it

23:35

was fun. Okay, wait, let me know.

23:37

Okay, actually, but I need to go into this because you

23:39

are always going to give the fans a double take of

23:41

an album cover. It is one of my most, I think

23:43

it's one of the most generous things. And I, whenever you

23:45

come out with something, I cannot, I literally

23:49

like rapidly run to go see what the art

23:51

is going to be like. Thank you. So how

23:53

does that work? Like, are you just like, when you

23:55

write something and then you record it, like, you just

23:57

get like an, like, like, it's

23:59

like a visual. in your head or do you work it with like

24:01

your team? So I guess

24:03

let's talk about like the last two. And actually

24:06

the first, so devotion, I had a

24:08

double bun. Oh, I love that one. And it was

24:10

very much inspired by... And it was black and white.

24:12

Yeah, it was black and white. Paul

24:14

Scarlett took the shot. And

24:17

what year was that again? That was 2012, I think. Yeah,

24:19

because that, I mean, because I have been loving you

24:22

for such a long time. Even before the temper. You're

24:24

actually in my Apple music from

24:26

when I used to download because of that. Because...

24:28

Thank you. But

24:30

keep telling me. So yeah, for that, I was

24:33

very much like... I went to this amazing postmodernism

24:35

exhibition in London. And

24:37

it was really fascinating. And there was this... It

24:42

went from film to talking. I mean, it was

24:44

all kind of, it was amazing. That's my purchased

24:46

Apple music, just so you get so devotion 2013.

24:49

Thank you. I appreciate that. So we just... And it

24:51

was for me, it was wildest moments. And imagine it

24:53

was us. Was the two that really liked time. So

24:55

imagine it was us was like the song that... And

24:57

that did not. I thought I was about to get

24:59

dropped. And I had to give them

25:01

a new song. And that was

25:04

like my... Lots of people love that.

25:06

And you don't, it's not your favourite. I

25:08

had all the Sink the Pink lot in

25:10

that video. Aries

25:13

Moros directed that. And they were

25:15

my creative director at

25:17

the time. And that was really fun with Sink the

25:19

Pink. But yeah, so like album covers, devotion

25:21

was very much me wanting to feel... I

25:24

always wanted to feel timeless. And it felt quite

25:26

filmic. The double bum was supposed to be slightly

25:29

like otherly futuristic and postmodernism.

25:31

And how ahead of the curve were

25:33

you on that? Because people want to

25:35

do this sort of like... It's

25:38

called like a form and this very architectural style.

25:40

Like you did that before anyone was doing this

25:42

in their cover. Thank you. I mean, that was

25:45

very much a wonderful... Adrian,

25:47

I can't remember his surname. Adrian

25:49

completely thought of that and it was

25:51

very fun. But I wanted it

25:53

and I felt like it was like my armour.

25:56

Yes. It was character. And then I kind

25:58

of went a bit... strip

26:00

that away on the next two records actually. I

26:02

think that was probably about confidence too. Lack

26:05

of. And then what's your pleasure?

26:07

It was very much inspired by Andy Warhol Polaroids

26:11

and Studio 54

26:13

and New York disco scene

26:15

and like 70s 80s. So that was

26:17

very much, and that was Carlin Jacobs who

26:20

did it and it was a Polaroid. We

26:22

did loads of amazing shots that day, but

26:24

that was very much Liz Tor wanting it

26:26

to not feel too done. So it was

26:28

like it had a bit of texture and

26:30

frizz to it, but it was like big

26:32

hair. And then Patrick Wilson did the hair

26:34

piece for, and that was actually shot

26:36

whilst that was my third attempt at

26:38

an album cover because I wasn't happy with them. That

26:41

hair piece is legendary.

26:43

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27:27

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27:30

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27:32

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Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. So

27:54

I was just doing like a little brief bit of math because your mom

27:56

said earlier you're 39. So that means that devotion

27:58

that's 20, 30. So

28:01

it's 20, 24. 27 was I was. 12 years ago.

28:06

Yeah, 26 when I came. Not

28:10

to be like ages to 25 year olds, but I always just

28:12

think about my life. Like I'd be

28:14

like from 25 to 30, I feel like

28:16

was the most changing I've ever done. Like

28:19

by the time I got to 30, like I was a whole

28:21

different person from things that I'd been through at that time. And

28:24

I feel like I just kind of got into one of those

28:26

other areas of my life. Like this last year, I feel like

28:28

I just went through a lot, grew up

28:30

a lot, learned a lot of lessons. How

28:33

old do you know? I just turned 37. So this last

28:35

year I've had like a little bit of like a spurt,

28:37

a spurt of like emotional growth. What has

28:39

it been like finding yourself in growing up? I

28:41

mean, because you, I mean,

28:44

I feel like 27 to 30. That's

28:46

like a lot of life that you've

28:48

been in the public eye. You were

28:50

making music publicly, like your style, your

28:52

evolution. Like I felt, I felt kind

28:54

of archaic when I entered in. I

28:57

was really quite old to

28:59

getting signed, you know, compared to other people.

29:02

You know, it was when I was like the boom of like talent

29:04

shows and there would be like, you know, this

29:07

16 year old and you know, so

29:09

I felt quite old. So I felt

29:11

like actually I knew myself quite well.

29:14

But yeah, and I, you know what, luckily Jonathan,

29:16

I'm not in the public eye too much. So

29:18

it's kind of, I've been able to remain quite

29:20

private. I do my music. Yeah, we

29:23

do a podcast and that's probably made people know me

29:25

a bit better as well. But

29:28

it's not been the same scrutiny that

29:30

you necessarily have had and like, well,

29:32

definitely not. And so I've

29:34

been able to kind of live quite easily.

29:36

I think, I think when the transition from

29:38

being a mother in music, that was

29:40

when I really struggled. That

29:42

was really tough. How's that been? Well,

29:45

third album was a lot

29:47

about the challenges of motherhood.

29:49

People weren't that interested. So

29:52

I was like, and then I was like, fuck it.

29:54

I'm not going to do autobiography and I'm fucking be

29:56

arsed. I mean, some of the

29:58

record is, but I just started to. songwriting in a

30:01

different way. And it was incredibly free. But

30:03

yeah, that was really hard. I think because I

30:05

put myself under immense pressure to be the perfect

30:07

mother, the perfect pop star, the perfect pop star

30:09

that is a mother that can show. And I

30:12

remember Ellie Golding coming up, she's so gorgeous

30:14

and lovely. And she was like, it's so

30:17

inspiring that you are being a mum and

30:19

you're bringing your daughter around and you're doing

30:21

it. And I, and you

30:23

know, now lots of people are having babies,

30:25

of course, and lots more musicians, I feel

30:28

like my peers have had babies and

30:30

it's not because I had them, but I think it

30:33

was very sweet that she said that, but

30:35

also in the inside, I was very much

30:37

struggling. So it was, yeah, it was an

30:39

interesting time, but we're over it and it's

30:41

good and it's fine. I think you weren't,

30:43

if you don't mind me saying, I think

30:45

Jessie's always at the very beginning, she was

30:47

a bit apologetic, like, oh gosh, you know,

30:49

you'd like me. Whereas she

30:51

should have been so confident because she's

30:53

so fabulous. And it

30:55

was definitely, you've got more confident the last

30:58

two albums. They have definitely been. And the

31:00

hair has got bigger and more confident. So

31:02

there you go. Thank you for, no offense

31:04

Jessie, but saving that answer, honey, that was

31:06

good. Because you just kind of try to

31:09

doubt, like not like fold down, play your

31:11

journey, but you're like, it's fine. It's like,

31:13

it's like an air, like, but gaining confidence,

31:16

no matter, I mean, in the music industry, I don't, I'm

31:18

like not in the music industry, but I can imagine

31:21

the pressure and the scrutiny and the feedback on something

31:23

that's like so close to your heart and soul, you

31:25

know, like you put so much into your music. And

31:28

so growing and having feedback on that

31:30

is hard. And then also like introducing a, like

31:32

I just said, you know, in your part, I was like, last

31:35

week I envisioned myself as a parent,

31:37

literally, for like the first time. And

31:39

even just thinking about like my comedy and the way

31:41

that I come across and the way that I'm like

31:44

perceived. And then if I did have a kid, like

31:46

what that would feel like for them, like seeing your

31:48

parent be perceived. And what does that mean about, you

31:50

know, the kid? That's so much pressure. And like, you

31:52

know what, it was funny. I

31:54

did, I shot the music video for free yourself.

31:57

At the end, I was like, I think I should

32:00

be on the... banquet table naked. And

32:02

I was, it was free yourself. It was about, it was

32:04

supposed to be this me being this kind of,

32:07

free your, thank you. And I was supposed to be

32:09

this high priestess in this and encouraging everyone to kind

32:12

of take their clothes off in the music video. So

32:14

I was like, well, I should be naked on the

32:16

on them like eating on a table and I should

32:18

be there. And I did it.

32:20

And I felt very comfortable. And I

32:22

have my bits and bobs covered by

32:24

apples and grapes, but it was very

32:26

Garden of Eden and it was fab.

32:28

And it was camping. It was silly.

32:30

And, and I got home and I

32:33

was like, oh my God, I freed myself. And I

32:35

was like, Sam to my husband. I was like, babe,

32:37

like, it got naked in my music video, like tastefully.

32:39

And Sam went, babe, you've got to do the bloody

32:41

school gates like tomorrow. And like, all the parents are

32:43

gonna see you. What do you think you're doing? And

32:45

I was like, oh God, yeah, I didn't think about

32:47

that part. But then you stuck with it. Yeah, of

32:49

course I did. Yeah. It's fab. But no, my daughter,

32:52

my daughter, weirdly,

32:54

I went on a school trip with

32:56

my daughter's choir on Monday. They were

32:58

getting a masterclass with Chaka Khan. Amazing.

33:01

So I was like, I volunteer.

33:04

I volunteer to go on a

33:06

hellish school trip. It was amazing.

33:09

These kids got to sing Ain't Nobody With Chaka

33:11

Khan. It was amazing.

33:13

What school is this? No, it was like

33:15

different schools in London got to sing with

33:17

her as part of this thing that she's

33:19

curating in London. And I was

33:21

like, just a parent. And my daughter

33:23

said, don't embarrass me, mommy. Do not sing today.

33:25

And I was like, yeah, today I'm the parent.

33:28

And then it was really funny when the manager

33:30

came and pulled me over and was like, Jesse,

33:32

Chaka would like to meet you. And I was

33:34

like, I'm so sorry. I have to be a

33:36

responsible adult for these children. I have

33:38

to be mom now. I can't meet Chaka Khan. I'm

33:40

so sorry. I'm going to hopefully meet her because we're

33:42

on a different building. Like we're on a building together,

33:44

but like I had to be like the responsible volunteer

33:46

parent. I'm like, sorry, kid. I'm going over there. I'll

33:48

be right back. I won't embarrass you, but I am

33:50

going to go meet Chaka Khan right now. I know.

33:52

I know. What a good mommy. No, I

33:55

don't know. I think it was. Yeah. Anyway. So our

33:57

last segment, I'm pretty curious. It's a lightning round and

33:59

it's meh. or major. So what

34:01

we need. What does meh mean? Meh has like

34:03

meh. Meh. Oh, okay. Major is

34:06

like major. Okay, are you ready? Ooh,

34:08

this is like really good. It's very like a la us.

34:11

Vocal rest. Major.

34:13

Okay. Lenny, this

34:15

is for both of you. Vocal rest. Oh, met.

34:18

Oh yeah, very met. Oh, met, meh. Oh, met. Yeah,

34:20

Lenny would like to rest the voice. Jesse's very

34:22

important. Okay, a classic red lip, Lenny. Oh,

34:25

major. Yeah, what about you, Jesse? I

34:28

think I'm major too. I should do it more often.

34:31

Red light therapy. Major. Never heard

34:33

of it. I've got a fucking sauna

34:35

blanket coming on tour with me. It's

34:37

coming tomorrow. Oh my God, I gotta get her

34:39

to her. Okay, sunset blush. What the fuck

34:42

is that? I don't know, is it just like kind

34:44

of dusky or something? I don't even know. Where'd you

34:46

get it from? Is it like when you put it on your

34:48

nose, the blusher? I literally don't even know what this

34:50

term is, but I love when our producers know more than me. What's a

34:52

sunset blush? Oh,

34:55

pink and orange. It

34:58

smells major. I'd like to

35:00

say major. I don't know. I wouldn't be doing it,

35:02

but if some very good makeup artist does it, I'm

35:04

sure I'd be major. Lenny, what about you? Would you

35:06

do a pink and orange? Oh, major, yeah. She likes to pop

35:08

a color. What about massages? Lenny? Major.

35:11

Jesse? Got one tonight, major. Okay, string from a

35:13

recipe, Lenny. Major.

35:17

Jesse? Major. Dermaplaning, Jesse.

35:19

I've done it. Have you seen the TikTok thing with

35:21

that white spray and then they do like the micro,

35:23

it's like all of my algorithm. No, but I was

35:25

like, I was like, you know how

35:27

like they go, oh no, you're not gonna get stubble. I was worried

35:30

that I was gonna get stubble. And you didn't? I don't think I

35:32

did. Do you feel like your makeup went on better? Meh.

35:35

Because everyone keeps saying that, but if you really want it, because everyone's

35:37

like, oh dude. I don't even know what it is. It's like

35:39

when they like shave the micro hair off your face. Okay,

35:42

no, no, no, no, no, no. A

35:44

box fan blowing your hair. What?

35:46

I so want one of those for stage. You've

35:48

got to get one. I know, I really do

35:50

all the pop girls do. I just

35:52

use house fans on my one comedy tour because I do a bit

35:54

where I like do a little like wind in my hair. But

35:56

I worry that it would like go in my face like that. And I

35:59

wouldn't know how to. and everyone would lose their mind.

36:01

No, I really need to put that. Where you need it

36:03

to, we're really ready to. I know, I need to know

36:05

how to do that with it. The gaze deserve it and

36:07

you can totally do it. It's very intrinsic, I already know.

36:09

I know that you could do it. I know that you

36:11

could. I see it in your bones. I see it in

36:13

your movement. Okay, I'm gonna fucking do it. Okay, also, okay,

36:15

wait, what about you for you? What about a box fan

36:17

blowing your hair? I don't even know what it is. It's

36:19

like the fan, so you look like you're a major. Oh,

36:21

you're joking, I make them shut the windows in the Uber.

36:25

She says, meh, when the final one,

36:27

pearls. Never not have them all. So

36:29

it's major. Major. La, la,

36:31

la, la, la, major, come on.

36:34

I can't believe you sang in front of me like thrice today. In

36:37

other words, even like throw on, but like it was

36:39

like a really big deal for me. Jesse, where would

36:41

you say that you're the most active on social? Which

36:43

platform? Yeah. Instagram. You

36:45

are, right? Yes. Do you even fuck

36:47

with TikTok? Someone does for me. He just basically films me

36:50

being a dickhead and puts it up. Oh

36:52

my God, when you're doing your glam backstage, I feel like

36:54

there could be some fun TikToks in there. Okay, noted. Like

36:56

I wanna see. Do you like TikTok? I do, I'm getting

36:58

more into it by the minute. I

37:00

also think you could be a fucking major TikTok

37:02

influencer. Babe, I had a dance festival the other

37:04

day, girls gurning their faces off at me going,

37:07

your mom on TikTok. And I was like, wow,

37:09

this is not what I thought was gonna be.

37:11

You literally need to go on TikTok and do

37:13

makeup applications and like just talk about amazing things.

37:15

Oh my God, yes, Lenny should do makeup. No,

37:18

you should do story time in TikTok. Do you

37:20

take like voice students? Would

37:22

you like to learn? I want you to become my voice teacher

37:24

and then what if I become an act, like what if, can

37:27

I be your backup singer or I learn how

37:29

to harmonize? Yes. No. Yes.

37:33

No, you have to be able to do movement

37:35

as well and you'd be amazing. But you'd want

37:37

the bloody, wouldn't you? Yeah,

37:41

but you'd also fancy both your dancers.

37:44

I actually like don't even care about dick. I have like so much

37:46

dick at my house. My husband keeps his shit busy. I don't even

37:48

care. Like I just wanna be in the band, please. You're in, you're

37:50

in. Thanks for coming. I'm pretty

37:52

curious you guys. Can we take

37:54

a selfie? Yes. You've

37:56

been listening to Pretty Curious with me. Jonathan

37:58

Van Ness. You can learn more. about this

38:01

week's guest in the episode description and follow

38:03

us on Instagram and TikTok at Curious with

38:05

JVN. Pretty Curious drops every Monday wherever you

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