0:00

We all want to believe. And there are many things

0:02

in this life and in this world that we will

0:04

not understand. There are things that have happened to me that I

0:07

can't explain. I have seen

0:09

things, and do I see shadows? Why

0:11

sea goes? Yes? Does

0:13

it scan the living? Be Jesus out of me every time?

0:16

Yes? I ship my kids. Jesus.

0:18

What the fun was that? Of course

0:20

he's back, Baby, he had to be

0:23

back. That's my uncle Dennis.

0:25

He is a medium and reader originally

0:28

from Massachusetts who now practices

0:31

in the Carolinas. He was my introduction

0:33

to spiritualism. And there's

0:36

no one I trust more to take

0:38

me on a journey through spiritualism

0:40

to reach its logical end. I'm

0:43

not one of these people it says,

0:46

do we talk to the dead? See,

0:48

That's where I divert because

0:51

I don't necessarily think we talked to that as much

0:53

as they can send us messages, and

0:55

one of the best ways to do that is to be aware

0:58

of the message that this setting.

1:01

You have to be aware of the kinds

1:03

of messages that are sent to you. And

1:06

that's all I'm really doing. When you read taro

1:08

or anybody reads tarot and Like I said,

1:11

I don't know who's going to hear this, but I know

1:13

you're gonna get a lot of hate mail, Thank

1:15

you very much, because I really don't give a fuck. Um.

1:18

It's a question of understanding and taking

1:20

away this mystique so that people can start

1:22

to help themselves and use

1:25

these things. A good reader

1:27

will never tell you what to do. They'll

1:29

present information. That's all they're gonna

1:31

do. Welcome to

1:34

the final episode of ghost Church

1:36

for now. Today we're going to take

1:38

a step back and take a look at some

1:41

bloose ends in Cassadega,

1:43

in spiritualism, and with you

1:46

and me, of course, the little paras

1:48

social devil relationship we've formed.

1:51

There are people out there, they

1:53

pretend to do what they're doing.

1:55

And I've done parties, and

1:57

I've done a lot of different things. And

2:00

what I'll do with a party is I'll say to somebody who's

2:02

who thinks they're the least psychic person

2:04

here, you know, and everybody,

2:07

okay, whoever, and I'll

2:09

have them stand up in front of these people and I'll

2:12

say, I'll whisper in there, this is what you're gonna say.

2:14

That's what you're gonna say. You have five people in front

2:16

of you. You're sensing the letter

2:18

on You never said a name, you

2:20

never said it was male, you never said

2:23

it was female. You're sensing

2:25

the letter. It's

2:27

almost guaranteed that's

2:30

somebody in that audience and says, oh, my father's

2:32

name was Richard. Well, thank

2:34

you, because I never said it was your father. I never

2:37

said it was male, and I never said her name was Richard.

2:40

You must be the fucking psychic, as

2:43

you gave me all the information so

2:46

you can say just about

2:48

anything. And one of the favorite things is somebody

2:51

has a piece of jewelry. You know how

2:53

easy it is to expand on this time. This is

2:55

why I get angry because you're

2:58

playing on people. You using these these

3:01

tricks, if you will. I'm

3:03

not using tricks at all. I'm laying

3:05

down a card and I'm saying to you, this

3:08

is what the CAD means, this is what the number means,

3:10

the slip civil means. I like my

3:12

uncle Dennis's attitude towards spiritualism.

3:14

It really has informed my own

3:17

as I've worked on this show. He

3:19

holds this core belief in

3:21

life after death with a desire

3:23

to sniff out bullshit that's hurting people,

3:26

because that's the problem, right, the

3:28

stuff that hurts people, the stuff

3:31

I can't prove that brings people peace in

3:33

a way that they have some control over. Hell,

3:35

yeah, go for it. But one thing

3:37

it's hard to not understand is why there's

3:40

so much frustration around the idea

3:42

of mediums and psychics in general,

3:45

because there are some dark roads. I'm

3:47

thinking particularly of psychics

3:49

that capitalize on the grief of

3:51

others, grieving parents, grieving

3:54

siblings, grieving children, who

3:56

collude with the police and make big

3:58

entertainment deals. I

4:00

lost my boyfriend tragically um

4:03

a few years ago. They have found I've

4:06

had such a hut time since everything.

4:11

The reason why you didn't find him this because he didn't water

4:15

and find him in water. It's like the

4:17

girl is missing in a Ruba. You

4:20

can't find somebody. It was September

4:23

eleven, there was he was

4:25

a fireman. But does

4:27

this girl look familiar to you? Know? She does? I

4:31

worked this case. This is a girl who

4:34

you said was beaten

4:38

and killed. Okay,

4:41

this little girl is me and

4:45

you told somebody that she's dead. Wait

4:48

a minute, you didn't disappear.

4:51

I'm right here. Well that's

4:54

interesting, isn't it. Somebody was known either for working

4:56

with alcohol or they had a problem with it. The

4:58

brother that died, okay, how don't you guys want to four?

5:01

Oh? Yes,

5:04

okay. And out of the four of you, three are similar,

5:06

one is different. Yes. Yes, your

5:08

son Brian is calling your mother bitch. Yes,

5:13

I don't have a Brian. Now,

5:17

to be clear, these psychics are not spiritualists

5:20

or officially affiliated with the American

5:22

spiritualist movement, but your

5:24

mediumship plays and is publicly

5:27

interpreted very similarly respectively.

5:31

Those mediums were Sylvia

5:33

Brown, author of over forty titles.

5:35

Millionaire famously told the mother

5:38

of a missing child that her child

5:40

had died, something that proved to

5:42

be false, but the mother died

5:45

believing it was true. The

5:47

second person you heard was Laurie Macquarie,

5:49

who was advised on over five hundred

5:52

cases in her career. The

5:54

third was John Edward, who will

5:57

We'll get to in a moment. These are

5:59

some of the meanest people in the world.

6:02

I absolutely agree. They

6:04

approached the grieving, not the other way around.

6:07

They promised results, they promised specificity,

6:10

and they promise it now in a way that

6:12

most spiritualist mediums I've met

6:14

would completely disagree with. These

6:17

types of mediums play into the popular

6:19

idea of mediums, ones that

6:21

can get anyone to come through at

6:24

will with the exact information you

6:26

want. There's no hit and there's no miss,

6:29

just good edits and good hair and

6:31

good information. I grew up

6:33

watching mediums like this on TV, and

6:35

at the time, my mom and I were very into

6:38

it. I used to watch this medium

6:40

called John Edward, who's still

6:42

working now. I've listened to a few of his

6:45

audiobooks to prepare for this show. Over

6:47

the years, he's been busted many

6:49

times. He's been accused of both hot

6:52

and cold reading extensively, but

6:54

speaking to the pit in my stomach

6:56

that started with him.

6:58

Check this anecdote out shortly

7:01

after nine eleven, when his show

7:03

Crossing Over a Staple with

7:05

the Loftest Women was at an all time high

7:07

in popularity on Basic Cable, Edwards

7:10

producers famously convinced

7:12

grieving families of the victims of

7:14

nine eleven to come on to the show

7:17

in order to boost ratings. During sweeps.

7:20

Edward claimed to have no idea, only

7:22

for a trade magazine to indicate otherwise,

7:24

and the special was pulled. He

7:27

was and is a hustler who

7:30

spent a good portion of the book I read

7:32

for this podcast, two thousand and four's crossing

7:34

over simply defending himself

7:36

against the huge slew of expose

7:39

that had come in, especially a damning one

7:41

in Time magazine. He tries to play

7:43

it cool, as if they're all haters, saying

7:46

I feel myself getting less and less angry

7:48

at the cynics and more and more I feel sorry

7:50

for them. Okay, Well, if

7:52

there's one thing I've learned from Ghost Church,

7:54

a lot of smoke usually means

7:57

something, especially when

7:59

the medium is heavily profiting. And

8:01

this was a guy who draws the line basically

8:04

nowhere. When it comes to this kind of medium,

8:06

there's no moral ambiguity. Fuck

8:08

these people absolutely fun opportunists

8:11

who prey on people, charge thousands

8:13

of dollars, and then feel the need to put

8:15

on a highly publicized show in

8:18

order to justify their behavior. But

8:20

here is the complicated thing. Most

8:22

mediums at Cassadega would completely

8:25

agree with you on that. So without

8:27

getting all hashtag not all

8:29

mediums for this last episode,

8:32

stop asking yourself whether you believe

8:34

in communication with the dead or not

8:37

Honestly, I don't care what you think about that.

8:40

What I think matters more are the ethics

8:42

and the emotions being taken into

8:44

consideration when someone

8:46

believes that is happening, which,

8:49

for all their faults, I think is a pretty

8:51

strong element of modern spiritualism,

8:54

at least as I've experienced it. Because

8:57

the impulse to want to find a way to contact

8:59

the dead as a way of grieving is

9:01

a human impulse. It's just as

9:03

human as the impulse that some of

9:05

the people you just heard speaking have had

9:08

to exploit that grief for money

9:10

and clout. It's the same

9:12

instinct that's inspired artists and writers

9:15

and filmmakers to explore how

9:17

death could look. There's

9:19

a bajillion famous movies and plays and

9:21

TV about the dead returning with purpose

9:23

and love and a lot of confusion. Your

9:26

king Hamlets, your Caspers,

9:28

your unaired ABC pilot

9:30

from the late eighties, Pocchinsky. Peter

9:34

Boyle is a tough, ill mannered cop who

9:36

was run down. I'm a lot to do that, but

9:42

that's not the end of his story. Now now

9:44

he's reincarnated surprise

9:49

as a street wise bulldog

9:51

in Pocinsky, What are you Gonna do now. Well,

9:54

first I'm going to try licking myself, and

9:56

then I'm going to catch my kila. I

9:58

think the closest thing I've received to

10:00

a divine gift during the production

10:02

of this show was someone

10:05

showing me Pucchynsky but speaking

10:07

to this human impulse to want to

10:09

explore life after death. American

10:12

spiritualism very much belongs

10:14

in that conversation. We've tackled

10:17

a lot in this series. It's intersection

10:19

with industrialism, with feminism,

10:21

with science, with colonialism.

10:24

American spiritualism boils down to

10:26

an attempt to understand what happens

10:29

to literally everyone, and

10:31

the ideas behind it aren't going to work for

10:33

everyone, and today's spiritualists

10:35

kind of expand their reach beyond

10:38

the classics of seances and speaking

10:40

with the dead. During my time

10:42

in Cassadega, I received messages

10:44

about relationships with living people,

10:47

about the future, about spirit

10:49

guides about where I'll live, where

10:51

I won't live. Need we

10:53

remind of business and state

10:56

of Florida. I'm not going to kick him out of business

10:58

here do you live here?

11:03

Well, geez, Florida, What did

11:05

I ever do to your good?

11:13

Just like taking get

11:15

me causing

11:19

sad shapen

11:23

st and

11:27

we goof

11:30

course we look

11:35

the fair every

11:37

word love

11:42

happen down.

12:03

Welcome back, Pacceynsky's to our

12:05

last Lauridian communion with

12:07

the dead. Or now, now

12:10

that we've healthily established that a cab

12:13

includes psychic detectives, let's

12:15

return to the land of the people's

12:17

mediums over in Cassadega.

12:20

It's a place where things are changing.

12:22

The last major shift at the camp came

12:25

when the Boomers arrived during the Vietnam

12:27

War era, bringing new spiritual

12:29

ideas and a less rigid commitment

12:32

to the Christian adjacent nous of

12:34

it all that defined early American

12:36

spiritualism. So after the

12:39

turbulence of the early decades

12:41

at the camp, the fire that nearly

12:43

destroyed the hotel, Cassadega in moving

12:46

it into private hands. Spiritualisms

12:49

barely surviving wave after wave

12:52

of skepticism, the Camp took

12:54

another decisive step in asserting

12:56

themselves as an independent organization.

12:59

In a critical moment

13:01

came for the Camp, Cassadega broke

13:04

from the oldest spiritualist organization

13:06

in the country, the National Spiritualist

13:09

Association of Churches the n

13:11

s a C. In the book Cassadega

13:14

the South's oldest spiritualist camp. The

13:16

Camp historians stated that the main reason

13:18

this was decided was because of differences

13:21

and opinions on how to certify

13:23

a medium. This is an understandable

13:26

eternal issue within spiritualism.

13:28

To this day. You'll find spiritualists

13:30

on their guard about what constitutes

13:33

a legitimate medium, how one's

13:35

abilities needs to be witnessed and acknowledged

13:38

and honed over a period of years.

13:41

Given the background of spiritualism

13:43

and of the people during the two

13:45

major moments for the religion in the mid

13:47

nineteenth century and the nine twenties,

13:50

this makes sense. The religion

13:52

was so thoroughly roasted in

13:55

the press that other religions

13:57

with similar beliefs were formed, not

13:59

as much because of a difference in opinion,

14:01

but because of a desire to not be

14:04

involved in all of that. Investigators

14:07

like Harry Houdini then felt strongly

14:09

that most mediums were attention seeking

14:12

frauds, and it's a baggage

14:14

that the religion carries to this day.

14:17

So yes, there is a pretty

14:19

direct line you can draw from the Harry

14:21

Houdini's of the world dedicating

14:23

their skills to undercutting the mediums

14:25

of their day. To Pastor dub

14:28

of Cassadega, calling me in

14:30

the airport terminal right before I

14:32

leave on a plane to Florida to say

14:35

just so I know, I haven't

14:37

actually been approved by the

14:39

press board of the camp, and I

14:41

would be informed of how the mediums

14:43

felt about me two weeks

14:45

later. And so you

14:47

have to understand it surprised

14:50

me when a long time medium with the

14:52

camp approached me after my

14:54

botched adventure to learn more in Cassadega's

14:57

library and invited me to dinner.

15:00

At this point of my trip, I had learned a

15:02

lot about spiritualism, but I felt

15:04

extremely isolated and almost

15:06

certain that the camp would not approve

15:09

of the press request I was making and

15:11

had already invested a ton of time

15:13

into. So when a medium who

15:15

first came to Cassadega in the nineties

15:18

came up to me and asked if I was hungry,

15:20

I said, fuck it, I've been

15:22

eating at a gas station for four days

15:25

and I don't think these people like me very much.

15:27

Let's go out to eat, and I got

15:30

in the car. We end up

15:32

at a Perkins restaurant. It's

15:34

my first time there. If you've never been, it's

15:36

kind of got Floridian Denny's vibes,

15:39

but with a hell of a pie menu

15:41

highly recommend. The medium

15:43

I'm with is a regular here, knows

15:46

everyone by name, everyone knows them.

15:48

When we sit down, they recommend the soup,

15:50

sandwich, pie combo. And I'm so

15:53

fucking hungry that I would eat

15:55

all three of those things, throw it back

15:57

up and baby bird it back to myself. And

15:59

as hungry as I am, it occurs to me

16:02

that this could be an ambush,

16:05

because while the mediums in Cassadega had

16:07

been cordial to me during this visit, I

16:09

was definitely walking on eggshells

16:12

for the duration. Cassadega

16:14

mediums do not like press,

16:17

or rather the risk of negative press. There

16:19

are a religion that has been brought to their knees

16:22

over and over by this kind

16:24

of press. So while it doesn't

16:26

feel great, I sort of understand

16:28

why. So after I order my soup,

16:31

I go over the possibilities. Maybe

16:33

I've been brought here to be gently scolded

16:35

and warned to back off, to

16:38

be told they're not hurting anybody

16:40

here, so go away

16:43

instead. By my second cup of coffee,

16:45

because I cannot stop eating or drinking

16:47

this whole meal the dry mouth I

16:49

have from four days of gas station food

16:52

is excruciating. I

16:54

realized that I've been brought here to

16:56

just listen to what this person has to

16:59

say, not to the history

17:01

book Cassadega treatment that I've gotten

17:03

on the phone and in real life several

17:05

times over now, not the skeptics

17:08

perspective that you can find all over YouTube,

17:11

but just listen to someone who has

17:13

watched and lived inside of a spiritualist

17:15

camp for over a quarter century.

17:18

I kind of can't believe my luck. What

17:20

would the boards say.

17:23

The medium starts by saying this, they

17:26

don't want to talk politics or personality

17:28

or anything like that. They'll let me

17:30

suce that out for myself. Instead,

17:33

they tell me about their background, one

17:36

that shares parallels with a few other

17:38

mediums at the camp. They were once

17:40

a big corporate success story in

17:42

another region of the country. They

17:44

were responsible for millions of dollars

17:47

of revenue. They had hundreds of employees

17:49

back in the eighties and nineties, the whole

17:52

Reagan opulence game. They

17:54

make themselves kind of sound like a character in

17:56

Wall Street. At one point, refer to

17:58

themselves as Daddy Warbucks,

18:01

and it's hard to not hear a little

18:03

bit of nostalgia for it as we're

18:05

eating our six dollar Perkins sandwiches.

18:08

They say they had top agents go to Hawaii

18:10

for ten days at a time in the best hotels,

18:13

parties at the best country clubs, until

18:16

all of a sudden things took a turn.

18:19

Their business flopped, their marriage

18:21

of several decades fell apart, and

18:24

the medium ended up a shell of themselves

18:26

with little more consistency in their

18:29

life than a certificate

18:31

in practicing raiki. They

18:33

don't practice raiki and Cassadega much,

18:35

the medium was told, but they

18:37

could get trained in spiritual

18:40

physical healing if they have some

18:42

time to kill. At this point, they

18:44

had nothing but time, and so when a family

18:46

member fell ill in Florida, the medium

18:49

came to Cassadega and never went

18:51

back. Stories like this are

18:53

echoed throughout the camp in different

18:56

ways. There are a couple of mediums

18:58

who flunked out of corporate America during

19:00

this same era and seemed to

19:03

hope spiritualism would provide shelter

19:05

from their prior life and beliefs.

19:08

There are other mediums and community

19:10

members who were seeking validation

19:13

and energy after a life of skepticism.

19:16

I always think of Selena, the bookstore

19:18

manager, who was raised by two skeptic

19:21

NASA parents. There are other

19:23

members in Cassadega who are recovering

19:25

from a life in fundamentalist religion,

19:28

like the events coordinator Jamie,

19:30

who has raised Southern Baptist and was

19:32

Southern Baptist well into her

19:35

adult life. Some of these people

19:37

stay close with their families. Others

19:39

find it harder to do. But in Cassadega,

19:42

you're welcome to come and go as you please.

19:44

And that's the best and worst thing about

19:47

the camp. The medium reminds me as

19:49

shiny, happy people plays softly

19:51

in the background. God no

19:54

one is wearing a mask in Florida,

19:56

and the elderly keep bragging about

19:58

it, like it's this amazing thing ing. But

20:01

the medium wants to tell me that

20:03

this freeness to come and go is part

20:05

of the problem. Young people don't

20:07

want to get drained in Cassadega. They

20:09

want instant gratification on everything,

20:12

not like the old days. I don't

20:14

have the heart to tell them what kinds of things young people

20:17

are preoccupied with these days.

20:19

But once the medium starts talking, they

20:21

don't seem to want to stop, and

20:23

they tell me all about their twenty five

20:25

years in Cassadega, about the books

20:27

that got them excited when they first moved there,

20:29

the channel texts that inspired them,

20:32

people they had connected with, their

20:34

medical malpractice lawsuit pending,

20:37

a huge artistic dream they have that they're

20:39

asking spirit to manifest for them

20:41

this coming summer. They discussed

20:44

the types of people they've met in Cassadega,

20:46

lowering their voice when they categorize

20:49

them, the healers who stay, the

20:51

healed who leave, and the ones who

20:53

get addicted to a sense of power and

20:55

control. They shouldn't be telling

20:58

me this, they say, but they can't. Seemed

21:00

to help themselves and keep talking. Those

21:02

people who own the overpriced shops

21:04

outside the camp, they say, laughing, are

21:07

imperfect, perfect children of God.

21:10

Jamie, Okay, I shouldn't

21:12

say that, the medium says again. But

21:14

as long as there's pile on the table, it's

21:16

nice to be talking to someone for both

21:18

of us. I hadn't realized how

21:21

lonely I had felt this whole

21:23

week and also a month and

21:25

year. For all the ghosts swirling

21:27

around, it's very easy to feel lonely

21:30

in Cassadeca. Families don't

21:32

come there It's almost a running joke.

21:34

People come on their own when

21:37

they need to be healed for something. The

21:39

medium takes a long look at me and asks

21:41

a question I've never been asked before,

21:44

and I hope no one ever asks me again. They

21:46

say, Jamie, do

21:48

you believe that you are a perfect

21:51

child of God? I

21:54

reply, I think I know the correct

21:57

answer, but no. I

21:59

bearly went to Catholic Church as a kid. But I

22:01

guess it's just kind of an inherited degenerative

22:04

disease that you can get second hand.

22:07

Like am I more damaged from my dad smoking

22:09

Winston's inside or by

22:11

being raised by lapsed Catholics? Not

22:13

doing that? That problem not today.

22:16

The medium laughs and says, don't

22:18

worry, I am a perfect child of

22:20

God. In spiritualism,

22:23

children are born with infinite

22:25

potential, and even when you go

22:27

astray, you still hold

22:29

that infinite potential and through

22:32

you infinite intelligence

22:34

their God can be channeled

22:37

and exist. They tell me they

22:39

like their job, They like making people

22:41

feel better. It's not about money

22:43

for them anymore, or at least it shouldn't

22:46

be. Things were a little precarious

22:48

for the medium maybe, but they seemed pretty

22:50

zen about it. They seemed sure that it would

22:52

work out. They felt that it was better

22:55

that they were in this life in Florida than

22:57

their last one as Daddy Warbucks,

22:59

and then northeast. The check comes

23:02

and we drive back into the

23:04

vortex h

23:20

Later that night, I fall asleep listening

23:22

to the terror readers at the hotel Cassadega,

23:25

having a glass of wine on the patio

23:27

above my room, Room one, and

23:30

I draft a text to send to the medium

23:32

the next morning, like I've just gone

23:34

on a date, which I definitely have

23:37

not. But I type out,

23:39

I hope you have a good week if we don't cross

23:41

paths before I leave tomorrow, very

23:44

cool, and I prep my green

23:46

text to send the next morning. The

23:49

answer comes back very quickly, so

23:51

quickly, in fact, that I feel agist

23:53

for being shocked. It says,

23:56

are you hungry?

23:59

Oh my god? What? And

24:01

ten minutes later I'm back in the car

24:03

and we're headed to breakfast. This friendship

24:06

ends up being about sixty hours total,

24:08

but it's this gentle and really kind

24:11

one. At breakfast, when we

24:13

run out of things to talk about, Cassadega,

24:15

I tell the medium about myself,

24:18

the kind of work I do, my family, my

24:20

uncle Dennis. We get dinner at Perkins,

24:22

we get breakfast somewhere else. They take

24:24

me on a tour of their home where they do readings.

24:27

Really old house, high ceiling,

24:29

this slice of Northeastern architecture

24:32

on seminole Land. There

24:34

were framed paintings of their mentors

24:36

and their spirit guides. Honestly,

24:39

if I came anywhere close to finding

24:41

a spirit guide in Cassadega,

24:43

it was this medium, someone who

24:46

led me directly to a b LT and

24:48

two over easy eggs when I needed them

24:50

the most. And after a day

24:53

or so hanging out getting recommendations

24:55

of what to look at at the camp, where

24:58

to meditate, where to just stand

25:00

and try to collect my thoughts before

25:02

leaving. The next morning, it's

25:05

my last night in Cassadega.

25:07

My new friend, the medium isn't available

25:10

for dinner, but after days of waiting,

25:12

I finally have a food option

25:15

in the area. On Wednesday

25:17

nights, Sinatra's restaurante

25:20

at the Hotel Cassadega is open,

25:23

so I invite my only other friend

25:25

in the entire state of Florida, the girl

25:27

I knew from unionizing, who had come to

25:29

a table tipping class less than a week before

25:32

a lifetime ago, before I knew

25:34

which old medium specialized in physical

25:37

healing, and which was a skilled channeller,

25:39

and which was just basically overcharging.

25:43

It feels so good to see my friend

25:45

and just someone from the outside world in general.

25:48

We order Sinatra's Marinera sauce

25:50

pasta and it's not great. It's

25:53

hard to hear each other because there's this hired

25:55

pianist blaring music

25:58

of the Night from Phantom of the Opera as

26:00

regulars, mostly middle aged couples

26:02

from Florida, order refills of wine

26:04

and sing it Volume five million.

26:07

In spite of everything, it's super fun.

26:10

And of course, after a week, she wanted

26:12

to know what had I learned? Is

26:14

it real or not? I

26:16

don't know how to answer the question. And

26:19

while I'm trying to think of how my phone

26:21

buzzes with another green text, the

26:23

medium is offering me a ride to

26:25

the commuter rail that almost gets

26:27

you to the Orlando airport at

26:30

four thirty am the next morning.

26:32

I think about it a little more and I tell her

26:35

I'm not sure and maybe going

26:37

to one more message service will

26:39

clear it up. We part ways

26:41

and I walked back down the street to Colby

26:43

Temple one more time to attend to Cassadega

26:46

Wednesday night message service. I've

26:48

been to a message service before. It's

26:51

when a medium stands in front of a group

26:53

of around forty people and

26:55

channels spirit by approaching

26:58

people and saying, hey, I have a

27:00

message for you, and then they begin to describe

27:02

a ghost or a traumatic event that has happened

27:04

to you, and either it resonates or

27:07

it doesn't. A man is presiding

27:09

over this message service. He's

27:12

got a great reputation in Cassadega.

27:14

I really enjoy hearing him speak, and

27:16

on this night he's kind of on fire.

27:19

There's three different people who break

27:21

into tears when Joy comes to

27:23

them and describes a lost

27:26

parent, lost grandparent, and

27:28

in a particularly stirring case, someone's

27:31

lost son. But when he

27:33

comes to me, nothing is connecting.

27:36

It doesn't make sense. No,

27:39

I'm not a scientist. No, I

27:41

don't even understand the scientific language.

27:44

No, I've never had a little white dog.

27:47

No, neither of my parents are sick

27:49

right now. It's not always going to be

27:52

a hit. But I leave discouraged. And

27:54

when a couple in the lobby of the Hotel

27:57

Cassadega who recognized me from the service

27:59

say hey, Doug girl, what

28:01

do you think is this real? We came

28:03

from Daytona. Should we like get a reading

28:06

tomorrow at the hotel? I

28:08

tell them between you and me, They

28:10

say, the real ships across the street, but it's

28:13

your forty. I

28:15

go to bed all packed, listening

28:18

to the card readers arguing about the same

28:20

exact guy as last night, but

28:22

a little bit louder this time. The

28:25

next morning, before the sun comes up, the

28:27

medium is outside the hotel Cassadega

28:30

waiting for me with a hot coffee

28:32

and a bear claw from the gas station. We

28:35

drive to the train station and talk

28:37

about the rest of our week, and as

28:39

we pull into the commuter rail car park,

28:42

the medium kind of hesitates and

28:44

asks if I have time to wait for the next

28:46

train and a half hour. I do,

28:49

and I also want to know why they're

28:51

asking. Is it finally my time?

28:53

I'm way overdue to be killed by a

28:55

stranger, but it's not my time.

28:58

Instead, we park and they

29:00

hand me this green folder with

29:03

a message written on the tab to

29:05

Jamie from the medium,

29:08

love and hugs on your journey. Inside

29:11

this folder is a tight document that

29:13

spells out the medium's philosophy

29:16

on life on Cassadega,

29:18

on the Veiled American Experiment,

29:21

on a lot of stuff. I don't want to call

29:23

it a manifesto, but it's

29:26

kind of a manifesto. It's like a friendly

29:29

manifesto. The document was

29:31

titled and I do feel the

29:33

need to say this person is white. You'll see why

29:35

I have to clarify that in just a moment.

29:38

The document was titled I

29:40

Too have a dream.

29:42

Uh. Anyways, the

29:45

Medium and I talk a little bit more about a

29:47

failed small business on the finger legs,

29:49

about wishing they saw their grandkids

29:52

more, and eventually the next train comes.

29:54

They give me a hug and say I'll always

29:57

have a friend in Cassadega, and

29:59

I'm going back to floor next week. So

30:01

I wonder if it's true. I've

30:03

not heard from the Medium since.

30:06

But ever since returning from Cassadega

30:08

in February and commencing work on

30:11

this show, I've tried to keep

30:13

up watching the official live

30:15

streamed Sunday services and lyceums,

30:18

that educational talkback portion that

30:20

comes before the main service. For

30:23

the most part, I enjoy them.

30:25

It's pretty calming background noise,

30:28

and for a long time up until

30:31

For over thirty years, the Cassadega

30:33

Lyceum has been run by a guy named

30:36

Reverend Dr Don Zangy formerly

30:39

like the Medium and Upstate New York

30:41

business owner, but Reverend Dr don

30:43

Zangi's business was a martial

30:46

arts studio. He is a fascinating

30:48

guy, easily in my top two reverend

30:51

doctors, and I don't like to play

30:53

favorites with my reverend doctors. His

30:55

fashion sense absolutely reflects the

30:57

fact that he used to own a martial arts studio,

31:00

and although he's no longer the formal

31:02

lyceum director, he's there quite

31:04

a bit and always seems to be a welcome

31:07

presence. He's a bit of a rarity

31:09

at Cassadega. Reverend Dr don

31:11

is more open to incorporating other

31:14

religious ideas into his brand

31:16

of spiritualism. He's studied

31:18

under gurus. He's encouraged

31:20

students to learn more about Buddhist

31:22

principles, to test and challenge

31:25

themselves and their beliefs. No real

31:27

rules. His talks tend to be pretty

31:29

chaotic and fun, and so

31:32

I was surprised to see that this

31:34

past Sunday he announced

31:36

that he was leaving Cassadega.

31:39

His house had already been sold. He

31:41

was moving to Mexico in the middle of July

31:44

and was starting his next chapter. Things

31:47

are changing in Cassadega,

31:50

and his reflections on the camp, where

31:52

it had been, where it was going. We're

31:54

really humbling to hear so

31:57

here they are from Reverend Dr Don's

31:59

mouth himself. But

32:01

as many of you know, will probably be my

32:03

SPANSNG as I'm

32:05

making plans to leave camp, sold

32:08

the house and Paul

32:10

goes well, moving to Mexico, so

32:13

I don't know they'll be around much much

32:15

longer. Now. I meet

32:17

a lot of people in camp you can mention over

32:19

the years and somebody

32:21

said, oh, this is my first time here, you

32:24

better be careful my first time Father's

32:27

Day, and I never left now.

32:30

For many people spiritualism

32:34

in general. Here in Cassadaga, they

32:36

stay focused on the tradition

32:40

and the science, bossing religion

32:42

and spiritualism. I'm

32:44

all in favor of it. Those

32:47

are some of the best people, some of the best teachers,

32:49

some best mediums. I love it. Others

32:52

like me tend to go

32:55

out and still searching for all kinds and

32:57

the stuff still centered

33:00

in Cassadega Spiritualism.

33:02

That's just my nature. I did in martial arts,

33:05

I studied with the master, I studied you

33:07

ever the understo all kinds of other things to

33:09

add to my base information.

33:13

It is a It can be a

33:15

huge door opener

33:18

to worlds that people out there

33:21

up there I'm

33:23

never going to tell you about, because

33:26

they don't even know it. If

33:29

they do know, if they're gonna tell you it's bad, it's

33:31

able. Well we've

33:33

heard that more than a few times. Lassa

33:36

has been a favorite

33:38

thing of mine. Why everything

33:41

here is I'm sitting here telling you

33:43

thirty one years and wonderful, difficult,

33:45

all but wonderful unless

33:47

it was in my deal. I

33:50

did it for so long to helpen the

33:52

finally one day the part, so I just give it the

33:54

title of director. But I don't

33:56

care whatever questions

33:59

that and Dr Don ends up falling back

34:01

into his normal pet subjects.

34:04

He goes on about the natural laws of the

34:06

universe for a while. He reflects

34:08

on his time getting to know people through

34:10

the Lyceum program, but

34:13

at the end he says his time

34:15

in Cassadega is done, and

34:17

so he's leaving. It's kind

34:19

of that simple to put it in the medium's

34:22

terms. He is healed, and

34:24

he is leaving. It's quiet

34:26

for a second, and then someone in the room

34:29

speaks out, thank

34:32

you for being a wonderful teacher. I really

34:34

appreciate you and I'm going to miss

34:37

you tremendously. And

34:41

then he says goodbye to a room full of

34:43

mediums who he's been a part of daily

34:45

life for for over three decades,

34:48

doing your best at all times.

34:52

I don't know how else to end it. I

34:54

don't want to plank everyone for being here. I'll

34:58

wanta start crying. We thank

35:00

for you, pastors back

35:02

there in the board for room,

35:05

you've been less seem alive. That's

35:08

flive, that's awesome, Thank

35:10

you. Things

35:21

are changing in Cassadega.

35:39

Spiritualism is a movement that may

35:42

always be in financial peril, but

35:44

even when specific camps are struggling

35:47

with membership, with money, with generational

35:50

conflict, the popularity of spiritual

35:52

ideas and messages from

35:55

the beyond are not going anywhere,

35:57

whether you like it or not. And it's

35:59

such a massive world to explore

36:02

that there was a lot I wasn't able to fit into

36:04

just nine episodes after months

36:06

of research. Helena Blovotsky's

36:08

Theosophy and All the issues therein

36:11

other Spiritualist camps in the US, including

36:13

the one nearest where I live in Escondido,

36:16

California, where a healing service

36:18

in the sun brought me the closest I've

36:21

ever been to believing in everything.

36:23

There was my day at the Arthur Findlay

36:26

Institute, a college in England

36:28

funded by Jay Arthur Findlay,

36:30

a former president of the Spiritualist

36:32

National Union in the eighteen seventies.

36:35

It's the only Spiritualist university

36:37

that is still operating regularly and

36:39

it runs courses on site and on Zoom.

36:42

Today. I took a course with them called

36:44

Communicating with Spirits and it was

36:47

absolutely packed, mostly

36:49

with the casually curious the internet

36:51

spirituals. How can I learn about my aura?

36:54

Are the tools they use on TV? Real?

36:56

Or can I go intuitive? I discovered

36:58

there had been a Spiritualist church founded

37:01

in my hometown in the late eighteen

37:03

hundreds and sent my dad to

37:05

where it's currently located and is

37:07

struggling. There are the YouTubers

37:10

that channels spirit through crystals

37:12

and taro in a way that can be maybe

37:14

a little amateurish at times, but is

37:17

also an example of how to bring spiritual

37:19

ideas to a massive young audience

37:21

in an accessible way for free. These

37:24

videos tend to be calming,

37:26

encouraging, body positive, pro

37:29

mental health. They're not hardline

37:32

spiritualism as it was founded

37:34

in eighteen forty. It's

37:36

not particularly Christian adjacent.

37:38

They use cards, there's no four

37:40

to six years of training. But the

37:42

ideas in these videos and in these

37:44

courses reflect what spiritualism

37:47

always claimed to be about, about

37:50

self acceptance and connecting

37:52

on this plane and whatever the funk else

37:54

plane of guidance and

37:56

self improvement and generally

37:59

feeling less alone. So

38:01

we're going to go ahead and take a look at

38:03

what comforting, loving message

38:06

Spirit wants to give you. So

38:08

first and foremost, I see the

38:11

card that jumped out to me is sole family.

38:13

Somebody has really backed

38:16

you into a corner and made you feel silly

38:18

for believing what you believe. But

38:21

what Spirit is saying is that

38:23

you're actually at a point right now where your

38:25

sole family is coming together. I

38:27

hate the argument of who cares about

38:29

spiritualism because it's not real. Yeah,

38:32

most religion and spiritual practice

38:35

isn't real dip shit,

38:37

but its effect on people is I

38:40

think the only yardstick worth using here

38:42

is whether it hurts people or not, and

38:45

spiritualism certainly has over the years

38:47

at the deeply imperfect movement with a complicated

38:50

legacy. Without it, we wouldn't

38:52

have great things like young Gie

38:54

and dream analysis, or some of the basis

38:57

of therapy, essentially a mental

38:59

medium. Without spiritualism,

39:01

we also wouldn't have the burden

39:03

of celebrity medium scanners,

39:06

nor the appropriation of Native

39:08

American culture that does nothing to

39:10

properly acknowledge or include Indigenous

39:13

people. On the other hand, without

39:15

spiritualism, we wouldn't have Ghostbusters,

39:17

but it would have spared us from theosophy

39:20

the pros and cons are infinite. American

39:23

spiritualism came in a moment defined

39:25

by forward momentum and all

39:27

these ideas catching at the cross wires,

39:30

at a time where science and magic could

39:32

coexist, where women could be leaders,

39:35

but black and Indigenous women could still

39:37

be subjugated, where the laws of

39:39

nature did not apply, but if you turned

39:42

the light on just enough, the

39:44

laws of nature sometimes did apply. I

39:47

said in the first episode of the show that

39:49

I've been mourning my grandfather who

39:51

passed away a few months into

39:54

the research for this show, in a week before

39:56

it started airing. I haven't heard

39:58

from him. I don't know that I will.

40:00

And don't get me wrong, I've listened very

40:03

closely to all the referenced

40:05

doctors, but no spirit

40:07

guide in a cape has come

40:09

for me yet. Do

40:12

you want to take one more walk with me? I

40:14

have one more place in Cassadega.

40:17

I really want to show you a place that

40:19

is as silly as it is sincere,

40:22

and it captures, if not proof

40:25

that spiritualism is real, proof

40:28

of how it makes people feel. It's

40:30

called the Ferry Trail. It's right next

40:32

door to the library and two doors down from

40:35

where the Reverend doctor Lewis Gates

40:37

practices. So come

40:39

on one more walk. The Ferry Trail

40:42

is another site around the camp that the mediums

40:44

are understandably frustrated

40:46

with the optics of. It is,

40:48

for all intents and purposes, an overly

40:51

sincere selfie trap, a place

40:53

where casual and mostly younger

40:55

tourists come to take photographs in

40:57

front of the highly instagram

41:00

morble painted fairy wings. Another

41:02

trap, one I have taken a picture in myself

41:05

is a pastel painted winged fairy

41:08

throne. There's a fairy trellis

41:10

maybe lounge on the fairy Bench and

41:13

have your boyfriend take a picture of you there. The

41:15

Fairy Trail is goofy.

41:17

It's somewhat aesthetically pleasing, and

41:20

it's an anarchically curated area

41:22

of the woods that I kind of can't

41:24

help but love. The mediums

41:26

think it's all a little beside the point, and

41:29

they're not wrong. The Fairy Trail has

41:31

nothing to do with the religion, but I really

41:33

love it. It's such a showing of raw

41:35

sincerity and emotion and

41:38

even a desperateness for magic

41:40

to be real and communication with the dead

41:42

to be authentic. But the people

41:44

who come to the Fairy Trail go deeper than

41:47

that. They go there to resurrect

41:49

lost love, to leave anonymous

41:51

please, to mend friendships, believe

41:53

toldem's from themselves, or people

41:56

who died that they loved. Some

41:58

people even leave mixtape, send

42:00

c d s of their shitty music, or

42:02

tape their half rained on anime

42:05

drawings to trees. What

42:07

I am describing to you is a pile

42:09

of garbage in the woods, but it's very

42:11

sincerely curated garbage, so

42:13

it also qualifies as a free outdoor museum.

42:16

The camp fruitlessly tries to hold back

42:19

the flood of sincerely offered garbage

42:21

with polite but firm signs

42:23

things like take only memories,

42:26

leave only footprints, Please

42:28

do not clutter or deface the park

42:31

or its structures. Good fucking

42:33

luck, folks. The teenagers and mother

42:35

daughter teams I see carving their names into

42:37

tree bark and leaving wet envelopes

42:40

begging their husbands to come back to life on

42:42

stumps when I visit each day, have

42:44

more time and more determination

42:47

and more sincerity than any

42:49

underpaid medium at the camp. On

42:52

my way out, I passed a polaroid of two

42:54

teenage girls with an arrow pointing

42:56

to one that says r I p of

42:59

large rocks that have been turned into symbolic

43:01

headstones, names and dates,

43:04

and quotes a poem about

43:06

the death of a friendship that went from

43:10

one. I'll always cherish the warmth

43:12

you put in my heart. You were my best

43:14

friend till three thousand and five

43:17

Do we part. There's hair

43:19

ties, there's crystals, there's seashells,

43:21

there's crosses. There's graffiti reading

43:23

love me back, please. There's

43:26

a street lamp that doesn't work. There's

43:29

a height marker going from three to seven

43:31

ft where visitors have marked themselves

43:33

and their children's height with dates, initials

43:35

and messages. There's of

43:37

course a minion toy no

43:40

shit, and pictures and pictures

43:42

and pictures of dead Lauridians.

43:45

I go to the Ferry Trail at least once a

43:47

day when I am visiting Cassadega. It

43:50

has the least to do with the camp, and yet

43:52

it is the best part. The crickets

43:54

are screaming at the top of their little insect

43:56

lungs as tourists chatter and walk

43:59

past the library. I dream about

44:01

the Faery Trail all the time, and

44:03

in every dream, I'm just walking

44:06

through, looking at things and

44:08

reading things, and walking right

44:10

past the library. I'm going back

44:12

to my hotel room where I ask my

44:14

spirit guides to help me sleep.

44:19

And that's ghost Church. I

44:21

hope you've enjoyed it. I don't

44:24

make stuff to tell people what to believe and

44:26

what not to believe. There are plenty of shows

44:28

where you can be told what to believe and

44:30

why you're an asshole if you want to believe

44:32

it, or why you're a genius if

44:35

you don't believe it. The spiritualists

44:37

have not always practiced what they preach.

44:40

There have been oversights and exclusions

44:42

that reflect very poorly on the religion

44:45

and the national culture. That the religion

44:47

sometimes rebelled against and was empowered

44:50

by. It's uniquely American,

44:52

and that it calls itself American but

44:55

heavily borrows from other cultures.

44:58

It's uniquely American based on the fact

45:00

that it's so shaped and defined by

45:02

how the media received it. It

45:04

was formed partially in response to the rigid

45:07

Christian values that are shaping the decisions

45:09

of the Supreme Court, more so now than

45:11

ever so. In

45:13

their fight against American religious

45:15

indoctrination, Spiritualism

45:18

failed, buried by its contemporaries

45:20

in still relevant movements like Mormonism.

45:23

Like the medium said, spiritualists

45:26

aren't really recruiting and never

45:28

really have been. They'll take you to dinner,

45:30

they'll take you to breakfast, they'll take you to the airport,

45:32

they'll tell you what your dead grandma's up to, and

45:34

they'll never even listen to the podcast you spent

45:37

months making about them. They're both

45:39

bothered and unbothered, and

45:41

yet they are still

45:44

there. Over a hundred, twenty

45:46

five years later, they are still

45:48

there. In Cassadeca, Florida, in

45:51

Lily Dill, New York in Lake Pleasant,

45:53

Massachusetts, surviving

45:55

on others curiosity and

45:58

on their own belief in spear are It.

46:00

As the medium told me, most people

46:03

don't want to commit to the lifestyle, the

46:05

years of training, the burden of proof, the

46:07

occasional press circus, the Florida

46:10

of it all. I know I couldn't, but I also

46:12

know how much comfort I take in

46:14

difficult moments with the little spiritual

46:17

practices and routines that they

46:19

taught me. So if you're the sort

46:21

of person to dump on people who

46:23

believe in spiritualism or

46:25

spiritual ideas, ask yourself,

46:28

why is it hurting anyone?

46:30

Sometimes the answer will be yes,

46:33

but often it won't be is it

46:35

bringing someone peace? If it

46:37

is and it's not hurting anyone, what

46:39

are you mad about? And Babe,

46:41

have you checked in with the man in the

46:43

cave that follows you around all the time.

46:46

I hear he's pretty smart, Uncle

46:48

Dennis. Take it home. Your

46:50

mind and your body will tell you what you need.

46:53

You just need to listen to it. And

46:56

that's what spirituality is. It's

46:58

not about aim to a

47:00

deity. It's not about doing

47:02

a certain ritual. It's not about being a

47:05

certain way. It's about the fact that you

47:07

understand that you were born as a manifest

47:09

creature and you were born with

47:12

a soul. That soul is your spirituality.

47:15

You just have to remind yourself that you're that

47:17

spiritual person. Because we're not

47:19

taught to do that. How can

47:22

we Okay, we're thrown

47:24

into a world of manifest it's

47:26

what we eat, what we taste, touch, felc.

47:29

We're in a dated daily So I

47:31

would say, do you listen to everybody? I tell

47:33

you, God, let's go to these go to these things.

47:35

Listen to these people and understand that them

47:38

are full of ship, not

47:42

because they're being cruel, and they may very

47:44

well believe what they're telling you. But the

47:46

bottom line is there is no one way.

47:49

You have to figure out what's best for yourself. That's

47:51

how I arrived to where I am.

47:53

I don't need to wear caps, I don't need to wear all

47:56

the trapping is that prove to people who I am.

47:58

I am who I am because it from inside

48:01

me. It's who I

48:03

am, what I believe, and

48:05

nobody can ever take that away from you. Take

48:08

everything, even what I say with

48:10

a grain of salt. You have to

48:12

find is one thing in life that's up

48:14

back. You have to find you

48:16

a path by yourself. And it's not a path

48:19

you can walk with anybody, and it is not a

48:21

path that anybody can take you down. They

48:23

can help you that you've better find

48:25

it for yourself, and that's why people

48:27

don't like me. So

48:32

to conclude, the world is on fucking

48:34

fire, So don't exploit anyone and

48:36

talk to as many ghosts as you want,

48:39

and whatever you do, do not

48:42

come back to life as a

48:44

dog cop bad Pacynski.

48:47

Thank you so much for listening, and let's

48:49

play that theme song one more time, get

49:11

and

49:11

we hap

49:45

one last huge shout out to the

49:47

amazing team of Ghost Church,

49:50

our producer Sophie Lichtman, absolute

49:53

legend, the best. Shout

49:55

out to Robert Evans of cool Zone Media.

49:58

Gigantic shout out to to my incredible

50:01

editor Ian Johnson, who also

50:03

did voices on the show and it's just

50:05

an all around incredibly talented and

50:07

patient person. Shout out to our amazing

50:09

fact checker, Mary Stephen Hagen

50:12

be everyone who has contributed their voice, and

50:14

of course to Speedy Ortiz

50:16

who wrote that amazing theme

50:18

song that you just heard. Shout out

50:21

to my spirit guides Don and Helen.

50:23

This show is dedicated to my grandfather and

50:26

he would have hated it. As

50:29

for me. You can listen to my other podcasts,

50:31

My Year in Mensa, the Lead a Podcast,

50:34

or ac Cast. I have a weekly podcast

50:36

called The Bechdel Past, and other

50:39

than that. You can buy my book about

50:41

hot dogs called raw Dog that

50:43

comes out next year. Because follow

50:46

me on social media and I hope I don't

50:48

have a mental breakdown and find

50:51

me. Thank you so much to

50:53

the mediums of Cassadega, Florida

50:56

by

51:01

six