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0:00
Gift biz unwrapped episode 292.
0:03
It's the most undervalued marketing channels out there with the biggest
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return Attention gifters bakers,
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crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.
0:16
Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.
0:20
Now you are in the right place.
0:23
This is gift to biz unwrapped,
0:25
helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.
0:29
Join us for an episode, packed full of invaluable guidance,
0:33
resources, and the support you need to grow.
0:36
Your gift biz here is your host gift biz gal,
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Sue moon Heights. Hi there.
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Welcome to this. This week's show. It is going to challenge everything you think you know about
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email marketing. No, I mean seriously,
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but before we get into that, I want to update you on what's going on in my
0:59
private community gift biz breeze each year at this time where
1:03
you run posts, highlighting your holiday products that are available for purchase so we
1:09
can support each other. As we tackle our individual gift lists based on the interactions
1:15
and requests I've seen in this group, we're taking this a step further with the introduction of the
1:21
buzz book. The buzz book is a compilation of the small handmade business
1:27
owners in the group and provides a way for you to
1:29
support each other. You can do this by purchasing from each other of course,
1:35
but it goes deeper than that. This is a way to connect with people who make a
1:39
product similar to yours. So you can discuss the nuances of your industry.
1:45
It's a way to easily find and get in touch with
1:48
fellow Breezers in your local area to get together for coffee
1:52
or even establish more formal face-to-face networking type meetings.
1:57
It's also a way to create collaborations.
2:01
I've seen local brick and mortar shops reached out to regional
2:04
makers to display their products in store,
2:07
helping increase visibility during this very challenging time.
2:12
I've also watched Breezers get together and do virtual shopping shows,
2:16
offering different, but compatible products.
2:20
This allows you to get exposure with other people's audiences and
2:25
let's face it. This going live thing is a lot easier when you do
2:29
it with someone else, the things we can do through our connections together is far
2:35
greater than what we can achieve on our own.
2:37
The buzz book facilitates that,
2:40
and it's totally free for more details and to learn how
2:44
you can be listed. Join the gift biz breeze,
2:47
Facebook group, all the details.
2:50
Along with a video, talking more about the program are right there,
2:54
separated as a special unit for easy access,
2:58
the first edition already out. So you can take advantage of connections right away.
3:04
Okay. Buckle your seatbelts because today's show is longer than normal.
3:10
Gabby was providing so much information.
3:13
I didn't want to stop her. You know,
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I've been in business for a long time and to learn
3:19
completely brand new things is so exciting.
3:24
I edited down as much as I possibly could.
3:27
So grab a beverage and more importantly,
3:31
set up to take some notes because you're definitely going to
3:34
want to, and I'm preparing you now.
3:37
There will be a test at the end.
3:40
You probably think I'm kidding Today.
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It is my pleasure to introduce you to Gabby repoed of
3:51
email, Maverick, Gabby has worked every angle of email marketing,
3:56
seen the high price of not knowing and the struggle that
3:59
comes with it. So she works to free us from the struggles.
4:04
Gabby has worked at an email service provider,
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owned an email service provider and ran an email agency for
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10 years. Consulting for brands like as seen on TV United,
4:15
online and classmates, based on all of this experience,
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she's seen that solving problems with simple solutions is how to
4:23
optimize email for profit. She's an expert at engagement,
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open and click rates and delivery to the inbox.
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Email Maverick was created because Gabby is convinced you're sitting on
4:36
a goldmine. You just don't realize it.
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Oh my gosh. If that hasn't peaked the curiosity of all my listeners,
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I don't know. What would Gabby welcome to the gift is on rep's podcast.
4:47
Thank you so much. So it's really great to be here. I have to tell you that when I was reading what
4:52
you had submitted for the intro, I was smiling because I'm like our listeners are going to
4:57
get so much out of this. I want to start off in our traditional way.
5:02
And that is by having you share with us a little
5:05
bit about yourself through a motivational candle.
5:08
So if you were to create a candle by color unquote,
5:10
that would really resonate with you, what would it look like?
5:14
That's a great question. In terms of color,
5:17
definitely. I would have a combination of like blue and pink,
5:19
something like a Royal blue and paying when it comes to
5:22
the messaging. One of the things I say all the time,
5:25
especially to clients and students is your biggest weakness is your
5:29
greatest strength. And remember that.
5:32
And what does that mean? Basically what that means is especially with email.
5:36
So this is why I use it for a lot of my clients,
5:39
because a lot of them, they think email's a weakness for them.
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They're so good in other areas. Then when they get the email,
5:44
they were like, well, it's a weakness. Well, no, it's not your weakness.
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It's one of your greatest strengths that once you learn how
5:49
to use it, it will help you actually build your greatest assets.
5:53
So you don't have to always rely on tools and to
5:57
actually get your message out there and actually profit from it.
6:00
And that's why you also reference it as your goldmine,
6:03
you're sitting on something so valuable and you don't even know,
6:07
Oh, absolutely. Oh yeah. Most people don't once I show them even people that are
6:11
doing great now, even people that are making 50 or even a hundred thousand
6:14
dollars, or even people that are making a million dollars a month, some of my clients,
6:18
the enterprise clients, just for them to be able to notice that they can
6:21
double that without actually spending more money and actually doing less.
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It's incredible. It truly is a gold mine. I think People hear it.
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They just don't necessarily believe that it is true.
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Well, like I tell a lot of people, cause again,
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there's a lot of people out there that will say, well, email is dead.
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It doesn't work. And like I tell people all the time,
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just because you're not able to do something doesn't mean that
6:44
it doesn't work. It's just because you can't shoot like Michael Jordan doesn't mean
6:49
that it's not possible. It is definitely possible.
6:51
So this is why I always tell people your greatest weakness
6:54
really is your biggest strength because you believe you're weak.
6:57
You're not weak. This is actually one of your greatest strengths uncapitalized opportunity.
7:03
Oh, absolutely. It's untapped.
7:06
It's your best assets. I mean, it's one thing that I always like to tell people or
7:09
one way that I always like to describe email marketing,
7:12
because it really is like a game of chess. The online world is like a game of chess where yes,
7:17
social media is King. We all know it's King.
7:20
That's where you gather your leads. That's where people see your content.
7:23
But just like in chess,
7:25
the queen protects her King. And that's what email is.
7:28
Email is a queen of protects that valuable leads and actually
7:32
helps you grow this asset because it's the only assets.
7:36
I mean, email is the only thing that even if you have no
7:38
business, so you have no product, you can still make money with it being an affiliates,
7:43
promoting other people's products. So this is why it's so untapped where it's like,
7:48
if you have a business it's even better. If you have a business,
7:51
you're building your assets. But even if you don't have a business and you don't
7:54
have any products, you can still build that asset.
7:57
You can still build an amazing database of subscribers and still
8:00
market to them. It's the work of product and services and still able to
8:03
generate revenue that way. So this is why it's email is it's the most undervalued.
8:08
I have to say, undervalued marketing channels out there with the biggest return.
8:15
Well, and it is a true asset to your business.
8:18
Few words, To sell your business down the line.
8:20
One of the things they're going to ask you, they're not going to ask you as much about your social
8:24
media followers because you don't own them,
8:26
but they are going to ask you about your customer lists,
8:29
prospects and customers. Oh, absolutely huge asset for your business.
8:34
So before we get too far down the road here,
8:37
take me back into your entrance, into email,
8:40
being your focus. I'm the youngest of four immigrant parents.
8:45
And when you're the youngest of four and everyone has grown
8:47
up and you're basically almost the forgotten child,
8:50
you've learned basically that the best way to get what you
8:53
want is to number one, how things work and learn how people work.
8:57
And I was always fascinated with trying to understand,
9:00
like, what is it that made people tick? Like, what is it that made people choose something.
9:04
We made them decide something. And I was always fascinated with dots,
9:07
which basically led me towards marketing.
9:09
Cause I was always fascinated with that and also figuring out
9:12
what do I do? Do I become a psychologist?
9:14
I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to spend the next 15 years
9:16
trying to get a degree. And on top of that too,
9:18
I was like, I like to make money and let's face it psychology.
9:21
You're not going to be making as much money. So I was like, well, what's the next best thing.
9:24
And of course it's marketing, marketing is pretty much 98%,
9:28
all psychology. Then of course there's the economic side of it.
9:31
So that's what basically led me into marketing.
9:33
Now I kind of fell into the ESP kind of like
9:36
in a weird way, like a lot of things, I'll try to go for a marketing job.
9:39
Couldn't get the marketing job, ended up taking a job at an email service provider.
9:43
That's basically where I started my focus in terms of really,
9:47
really focused more on the marketing aspect. Because with email,
9:50
like people don't realize this with email, but email is attached to everything.
9:54
When you buy something, when you purchase something,
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there is a record of everything that is attached to your email address.
10:00
And on top of that too, unlike social media,
10:02
you can't actually tell who's engaging with what you get numbers
10:05
based on engagement, but you have no face of who's actually doing what,
10:09
unless someone's actually commenting on your stuff that you can actually
10:12
see. But with email, there's this unbelievable profile that you can build because you can
10:17
see everything that people engage with.
10:20
You can see what people buy. You can see what people are interested in.
10:24
You can see what people value and you can really tap
10:27
all into that. And that's always, what's really,
10:29
really fascinated me because yes, at the end of the day,
10:32
people want to sell products. And for me, I always look at that as a by-product because I don't
10:35
work on the sales side email for us.
10:38
What we do, we always teach people is really understanding your users.
10:42
It's like anything else you really, really want to maximize profits.
10:45
You have to understand your audience. You have to understand your people.
10:48
They're not all the same. They're going to have to have different levels are coming in
10:51
at different times. So it's important to understand where these people are and what
10:53
the value is And how they got to you.
10:56
I'd say, Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because they all come to you in a different way.
11:00
Like some people I'm thinking for our audience,
11:03
some people will come because they dropped their name in your
11:06
bucket at a craft show, physical show.
11:09
Some people came because they signed up because they wanted something
11:11
that you're offering online, whether it was a discount or a freebie of some sort
11:15
or whatever. And some people came because their customers,
11:18
I love the fact that you're already talking about dividing the
11:21
audience. I wanted to make that comment for people who are
11:24
listening here just to further clarify in their mind what you're
11:27
talking about. So this all came to light to you when you were
11:30
working at an email service provider, Correct? Yeah.
11:33
When I was working on email service providers, like, I didn't know anything.
11:36
Cause it was very, very technical back in the day. It's not like it now where it's kind of turnkey.
11:40
Cause that's what you see on the front ends. But that's where I basically fell into it.
11:44
Cause I was like, well wait a minute. I can see everything.
11:46
And from there, what I loved most was the fact that,
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and I'm going to use the wrong word. I hate using this word manipulation because basically what you're able
11:54
to do once you're able to understand your audience is you're
11:58
able to basically, I don't want to say manipulate once again,
12:01
but you're able to basically directed them to a certain action.
12:05
And that's the part that I fell in love with because it was like,
12:07
wow, okay. So now that we understand the user,
12:09
we can create these actions, which again,
12:11
help to build that better assets.
12:14
Because at the end of the day, what most people don't realize.
12:16
If you're not hitting the inbox, people don't see your mess.
12:19
Let's get into that in a minute. But I think you hesitate on that word.
12:23
You're the experts or you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong.
12:25
But what you're doing is you're making sure that you're delivering
12:29
information to different sets of people based on how they found
12:34
you, what would be the next appropriate step in them,
12:37
getting to know you eventually potentially selling,
12:41
offering them what you sell, et cetera,
12:44
or in the history of how they've been interacting with emails.
12:47
So you're actually giving a result to the end user,
12:51
the person who's going to open the email that's the most
12:53
appropriate for them, correct? Yes.
12:55
So it's more kind of like a conditioning,
12:58
but at the same time, it's giving us more information too,
13:01
because one thing, yes, you had mentioned where people are coming from and that's
13:05
important, but we actually go a little step deeper,
13:07
a little step further because yes.
13:09
Okay. People may have found you at a craft fair or
13:12
whatever it is, but the more important thing is people came to you for
13:15
a pain or desire. And that's the critical thing is understanding.
13:18
Why did they put that card in the basket? Why did they do that?
13:21
That's the critical thing. Because once you're able to get that,
13:24
and this is what we call tapping the heart, we call this tapping the heart because once you're able to
13:29
understand what makes people basically tick,
13:31
it makes them tick. So this is why it's understanding that fundamental of what is
13:37
it that you're trying to do here? What is that pain or desire that you're trying to relieve?
13:41
That's the reason why people sign up. People don't sign up to an email list because they're like,
13:45
Oh, I just saw this and you just type in my
13:47
name here. No, you know, they're trying to get a result.
13:49
I'm not sure do most people in your audience,
13:52
do they do paid advertisement or is a mostly organic,
13:55
Not very many people do paid For.
13:57
So organic comes with its own challenges and we can kind
14:01
of discuss those challenges. Cause we're Ganek and don't get me wrong.
14:04
I built organic Facebook pages up to like hundreds of millions
14:07
of reach. So there's definitely benefit in organic.
14:09
Absolutely. But it's a very, very important,
14:12
critical thing to actually qualify those organic people,
14:14
to make sure that you're not sitting on a list full of freebie people.
14:17
Cause that's one of the big problems with organic and also
14:21
kind of low freebie discount type of lists that you're doing
14:24
like sweepstakes type of deals. It's a big issue where you're building this huge list.
14:29
But again, it's not about the size of the list.
14:31
It's about the quality of the list and whether or not people buy at the end of the day.
14:34
Cause that's all that's important. So let me just Say like the way most of my
14:40
audience and I'm totally generalizing. Obviously the way people are attracting sales are going out to
14:47
trade shows for the wholesale business,
14:50
going craft shows,
14:52
church bazaars, that type of thing if they want to do direct to
14:56
consumer. So a lot of face-to-face things when we're able,
14:59
obviously we're still with the COVID situation,
15:01
but when we're able, a lot of people do that,
15:04
people also have brick and mortar shops. So they're relying on people walking in the store,
15:08
participating in local community events that drive visibility to their shops,
15:12
things like that. When you get to the online perspective,
15:16
it's having a website up having sites on multiple platforms.
15:21
So maybe they have their own website, but they also have an Etsy site.
15:24
Maybe if they're wholesale, they're also selling through fair,
15:28
which is a wholesale medium for product that lots of retail
15:32
stores will access. And then social media,
15:35
I'm still going to say the majority of people,
15:38
although there are definitely people running ads are trying to do
15:41
this organically and they're still,
15:44
I'm getting more and more people to be doing lives there,
15:46
which is helping get visibility. But I'd say 90%,
15:51
if not higher are all organic.
15:53
It's what they've done now. Should they be doing ads?
15:56
Maybe. Yes, maybe no, but just so we know how to direct the conversation,
16:00
I'm going to just generalize it for all our listeners.
16:03
That those are the situations that we have.
16:06
Sure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with organic.
16:08
I actually love organic. It's a slight modification we'll sand strategy so that you can
16:13
understand because at the end of the day, the most important thing is that it's just understanding how the
16:18
machine works. That's the most important thing is right now,
16:21
there's a big misconception about how the actual email machine works.
16:25
And once people understand how that works,
16:28
it's like anything else it's like, I don't know if you saw that when they did that,
16:31
but they can opener that viral video of how to properly
16:35
open up a can opener. And everyone was kind of like blown away in terms of
16:38
like, wow, this is how you properly do it. I'm not sure if you saw that.
16:42
Oh, is it the one where like it's positioned, it's supposed to be going like from the side instead of
16:46
the top or something like that. Exactly. Yeah.
16:49
Okay. I'm just giving you an example like that,
16:51
but it's kind of like that kind of mindful. It's like, Oh wow.
16:54
You know, you thought it was this way. What? It was really another way.
16:57
So again, it's just goes down to not understanding how things work.
17:01
This is why one of the focuses that we like to do with the well Maverick is just,
17:04
again, most people already have the tools to master email.
17:08
The problem is, is they're just close.
17:11
About 15 years of misguided information from the email service providers
17:15
of the world, who again, their only job is to provide a service,
17:20
which is just like your cable company provides cable to an
17:23
email service provider. Their only job is to send that email.
17:27
That is it it's to knock on the door of Gmail
17:31
and Yahoo and say, look, I have mail.
17:33
That is their only job now, whether or not Gmail lets you in and say,
17:36
Oh, am I going to prioritize you inbox spam?
17:39
Or on the online ether somewhere, then that's again,
17:42
something that is up to list owner to actually do.
17:47
This is why there's a lot of misconception in terms of
17:49
how does email work? Because everyone always asks,
17:51
well, what ESP should I use? Which one inbox is more,
17:54
how can I make more money? Which GSP will do more for me.
17:57
So my questions. So you have email providers,
18:02
like you just said, like Gmail, Yahoo, all of those.
18:05
And then you also have CRMs.
18:09
So what's the difference between the two.
18:12
And if I was using something like MailChimp,
18:15
who is my email service provider,
18:17
now I'm confused. Okay. I'll take those questions.
18:20
One by one and email service provider is a MailChimp MailChimp,
18:24
a Weber Clavio. So those are some popular ones.
18:28
A lot of people in my group have been using constant
18:31
contact. So that would be another one that they'll be familiar
18:33
with. Yeah. So constant contact as well.
18:36
Even Salesforce is an ESP,
18:39
but they're also a CRM because they're huge because they actually
18:41
bought cheetah mail and things like that. So a lot of these CRM started to actually acquire smaller
18:46
ESPs to actually start to add to their CRMs.
18:50
So some of them are a combination of the two guy
18:53
use, keep Bless you for using Keith,
18:55
by the way I call it leap. Well, I only use it for another business that I had
19:01
started a while ago and I'm pretty entrenched.
19:04
And I know luckily what I'm doing and all of that,
19:07
but I also have Gmail accounts that go with my businesses,
19:12
which is how I mail things.
19:16
Okay. So that's different. Okay. So I'm confused.
19:18
I'm going to let you go make some sense of all
19:20
of this for us. I just gave you a whole bag of like Play-Doh can
19:24
you help us build something here?
19:26
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So number one,
19:28
to break this down really simple. So you have your ESP,
19:31
which is your constant contact we'll use.
19:33
And then you have, you said from Gmail,
19:36
let's just say to do your business. So you have USP and you have Gmail.
19:39
Let's use two as examples, both your ESP and your g-mail are both M T A's.
19:47
They are both mail transfer agents.
19:50
This is almost like how a Brandy,
19:53
how a Brandy is not a cognac, but a cognac is a Brandy type of deal.
19:58
I don't know if I'm liking the symbolism already.
20:01
So this is really good. So the ESP and the g-mail are both MTA.
20:05
They're both male transfer agents.
20:07
Okay. They both transfer male. That is what they do.
20:11
But the difference between an ESP and a Gmail is a
20:14
g-mail limits you to how many emails you can send because
20:18
it's not built for mass emailing.
20:21
It's built for what is, I think you could send out like max,
20:23
a thousand emails at this point from a Gmail,
20:26
something like, I don't even know, cause I'd never do it that way,
20:29
but you're lying. So yes, there's a lot of people that actually use there's softwares out
20:34
there. Things like Yesmail or things like that,
20:36
that you can send email through Gmail, but it's not an ESP because you're limited to how many
20:40
people you can send to. Yeah. And this is a really good point.
20:44
I'm going back in my history of my businesses from a
20:49
long time ago, but I remember,
20:51
and some people I think are still doing this.
20:54
So this is really interesting point to discuss.
20:56
And just clarify is if I were to pull up my
20:58
Gmail and then I'm going to send to your saying,
21:01
it's a hundred. So let's go with that a hundred people on your list
21:04
that you have imported into that two column,
21:07
or you've masked the two column by just your name.
21:11
And then you've put them at all in your blind carbon
21:13
copy and you've sent it out that way. Would you kind of say that's the old way of sending
21:18
email that now doesn't produce good results at all?
21:21
Number one, I want to say it's not a sustainable way.
21:23
I understand why people do it in terms of, especially for business to business,
21:27
for business to business is very beneficial because again,
21:31
you can sort of kind of bypass spam filters a little
21:34
bit differently. So it's a different strategy.
21:37
Oh, okay. Yeah. So as opposed to,
21:39
if you're dealing with business, the customer, the first thing you always want to do is the problem
21:43
with sending from a Gmail is you're not building your reputation
21:47
with Gmail. So you're not doing anything with that.
21:50
And on top of that to scale is going to be very hard. So let's just say,
21:53
okay, if now you built a list of 10,000 people just imagine you have to replicate a campaign 10 or
21:57
20 times. It just doesn't make sense to do that.
22:00
There's a time and place for everything. So the most important thing to understand with email is it's
22:04
just getting started. You want the easiest thing to get started with.
22:08
You don't want to complicate things. So going back to the difference between the ESP and Gmail,
22:12
those two, the fact that they're both MTAs, but with Gmail,
22:15
again, you're limited to how much you can send. So whatever it is,
22:19
you're limited. If your list is growing, it's going to cause you more problems.
22:22
And on top of that too, you're not building your reputation.
22:24
You don't want to sell this asset. Let's just say two or three years down the road.
22:27
One of the main things that our people that are buying with an email is not just the lists they're buying the
22:32
domain, they're buying the reputation.
22:34
Cause that's the whole thing is your ability to hit the
22:38
inbox. Again is not based on which tool you use.
22:41
It's not based on your email service provider. You don't need any copywriting experience to be really good at
22:45
email, but you do need to have a great email reputation
22:51
like anything else. Okay. So this is really interesting.
22:53
And so your email reputation is built,
22:56
not from your Gmail, but from your email service provider.
23:02
Well, yeah. Well, just think about when you send from your Gmail now,
23:05
depending now, again, I don't know all the systems out there,
23:07
I'm sure there's a lot of systems out there that allow you to kind of,
23:10
I call it hijacking Gmail. Cause that's what you're doing in all honesty.
23:13
It's kind of a gray headed area to actually be doing
23:15
nuts. It's not black hat, but it's very,
23:17
very gray hats because of just the way you're sort of
23:20
connecting with Gmail and so on and so forth. So that's the thing.
23:23
So just thinking about it, when you're sending from Gmail, you're sending from Gmail's domain.
23:27
When you send from key Infusionsoft,
23:30
you're sending from your domain,
23:33
you're building your domain, sending reputation,
23:36
your business domain. Yes, exactly.
23:38
So if you're sending, if you're abc.com,
23:41
obviously when you set up your sending domain from your ESP,
23:44
you to set it so that it's your business domain or
23:47
something similar to it, whatever it is you decide to build on it because whenever
23:50
you sell it, that's the domain. That's going to be attached to it as opposed to this
23:54
is why one of the things I always tell people is when you're picking an ESP,
23:58
ESP is like picking a partner. It's like having a relationship.
24:00
You pick the wrong partner, I'll make your life miserable.
24:03
You pick the right one, you live a happy life.
24:06
So I'm worried that we're also confusing how our listeners here
24:09
too. So let's take it from the top.
24:12
Someone has nothing. They have an personal account.
24:16
That's a Gmail account. marySmith@gmail.com. It's just a personal free Gmail account.
24:23
Now they've started their business and they want to set things
24:25
up correctly. Where do they go from here?
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Let's take it from the top right after a word from
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Okay. So first thing they want to do is purchase the
25:33
domain purchase. So if it's Mary Smith candles@gmail.com,
25:38
then she can get Mary Smith candles,
25:42
email.com. She can register that at a GoDaddy,
25:44
whatever to register FX domains,
25:46
even Google you purchase that domain can purchase that domain.
25:49
Then you would go to whichever ESP you're most comfortable to
25:52
start with. Because again, this is not about finding mr.
25:56
Right? You're not looking to get married right now. Right now. You want something that's easy enough for you to get started?
26:00
So anything like a MailChimp, constant contact,
26:02
Clavio, whatever it is, whatever's easy to start with.
26:05
You get started at that. ESP, you sign up,
26:07
you basically get authenticated.
26:09
So there's different authentications that you need to go through to
26:12
set up your SPF and this, by the way,
26:14
when it comes to the technical part, I know it's very easy for people to sort of get
26:18
a little afraid of it, but do dogs get afraid of it?
26:21
Trust me, once you go step by step, it's very,
26:23
very easy. Yeah. And it walks you through how to actually set it
26:26
up. It's very simple. So you just go through the authentication of SPF records,
26:31
D Kim, and if they have link authentications and so on and so
26:34
forth, basically whatever the ESP has for authentication that you can
26:38
use to authenticate your domain. And that's basically it.
26:40
So now you're set up, you're set up. So now you send out your first email,
26:44
you are building Mary Smith candles,
26:48
email.com and not a Weber or constant contact.com.
26:51
You are building yours. So if you decide tomorrow,
26:54
you don't like a Weber. You say, no problem.
26:57
You just move to another ESP and you don't have to
26:59
start all over again because your reputation is built already.
27:02
It's there to build assets and that's it.
27:05
Okay? That's not hard. I got that. All right.
27:08
So then you start collecting emails and we've talked about these
27:11
types of things before you have it on your website where
27:14
people can sign up, you're at shows.
27:16
You may offer a raffle, make sure that if you're doing raffles,
27:20
the prize is something that your customer would actually want to
27:23
buy from you. Like you're not doing an Amazon gift card or something where
27:26
everyone's going to join. And then you have a lot of just unrelated email addresses
27:31
on your list. Exactly. Bunch of lurkers,
27:34
right? But so we get to the point where we've attracted
27:37
and now we have a little bit of a list.
27:39
What's your advice now? So number one,
27:43
don't wait for a little list.
27:45
Cause that's what I hear a lot of people like they're
27:47
always waiting on like, Oh, well can't till I get to a hundred until I
27:50
get whatever. Don't do that. Because again, this is all about being able to set up a strategy,
27:55
set up a strategy, see what actually works. So one of the first things that,
27:59
again, always go back to what's the main goal of your
28:02
email. Yes. We all know the main goal vehicles.
28:04
You want to make sales. You want to grow that asset, but the objective of email,
28:07
what is that? Objective email is always to maintain that email reputation.
28:11
You always maintain that positive email rep. That's the objective and the objective.
28:15
And now people are going to be like, well, how do you get that email reputation?
28:18
How do you keep a good at email reputation? Well, just like learning how to read and writes,
28:22
learn your ABCs. You gotta learn your AB ease of email,
28:25
which is always be engaging.
28:28
So this is what always be engaging.
28:30
You always want to remember that this is why you don't need any copywriting skills.
28:33
You just need to know to always be engaging,
28:35
which is mean get the open, get the click,
28:38
always get the click. And if you're lucky,
28:41
get the reply. Now going back to your original question,
28:44
when you said, well, you're at a trade show, someone sees you,
28:47
you have a raffle. Yes. Something that is tied to your business.
28:51
Which of course great idea you should be doing.
28:53
Most importantly, if you see someone at a trade show,
28:56
if your number one objective is to build that email reputation
28:59
from the moment they sign up to the minute they open
29:02
your first email, it's all about timing.
29:04
So this is why conditioning users is the most critical thing.
29:09
So it's not enough that someone just signs up because again,
29:12
they signed up well, okay, well, what happens when you sign up for something?
29:15
If you don't sign up for something, you forget, you know what happens?
29:17
Two weeks later, you get an email you're like, who is this person? What is this?
29:20
You don't pay attention. You delete, you hit spam. You do a bunch of stuff Important from the timing from
29:25
when they've signed up to when they received the first communication
29:28
from you, Correct is critical.
29:31
It's key. Again. It's all about timing.
29:33
It's all about building that rep.
29:35
And that's critical because more than likely,
29:38
if you spent too much time, they're not going to,
29:42
well, they're not gonna respond. They're not gonna remember, right? They're not going to even take that first action.
29:46
No, they're not. Or just think about it. We know this in marketing or at least it's something that
29:49
you start to learn in marketing. That timing is everything.
29:52
If someone's in front of you and you just sold them
29:54
on whatever it is, you know that if you don't close the sale,
29:57
at that point, it's going to be harder and harder to do next time
30:00
because you have to go through it every single time over and over again.
30:03
This is why you got them. The first time you're fulfilling this pain and desire for them.
30:07
Now the whole point is, remember, it's all about maintaining that email reputation,
30:10
but not only that to build that assets,
30:12
it's all about the more you condition a user.
30:15
And it's one of those things where I kind of hate
30:18
making this correlation now, but it is what it is, but just look at conditioning.
30:21
I mean, we all know the power of conditioning. What it can do to people conditioning a user to go
30:26
back to their email, because this is where you build your assets.
30:30
And it's also important to actually understand the objective of email.
30:34
So as I mentioned with email, that the objective is never sales.
30:38
Cause that's what a lot of people are afraid of. They're afraid to email because they're afraid of sales.
30:42
They're afraid of all. How do I sell this? How do I write this?
30:45
How do I do it? And that's one of their biggest fears is that I don't
30:47
want to send too many emails. I don't want to piss people off.
30:49
I don't want to do this. Whenever it comes to email, people bring a lot of their emotional baggage with them.
30:54
So this is why it's one of those things that you just have to kind of set it aside.
30:57
I think it's also because we've had that happen to us.
31:00
We sign up for something and we either start getting emails
31:04
that are totally different than what we anticipated.
31:06
We were signing up for. Or every single time we open it's Sally.
31:10
Yeah. It's from experience. I mean,
31:12
we've all had that, but I do want to ask you just for point of
31:15
clarification on conditioning, when you say you're conditioning,
31:19
are you saying you're conditioning your customer to look for you
31:22
in email versus somewhere else?
31:24
Like social media or wherever. And you're conditioning them that when they open an email,
31:29
there'll be something of value for them sitting inside.
31:32
Am I getting that right? In terms of conditioning?
31:35
Yes, exactly. That is essentially what it is,
31:37
is conditioning a user. Because again, you want to build that asset.
31:40
This is more on the ad side. You see a lot of people that are pushing ads.
31:43
So not so much on the organic side, on the paid outside,
31:46
you're going to see people that they'll do anything to get the email and then they'll do anything to keep them down
31:50
to sales pipeline. But it's like, well, wait a minute,
31:52
guys, if you're looking to build an email list, why would you keep them going through this sales pipeline?
31:57
And I understand because again, they want to make the sale because they want to make
32:01
the return on investment. Not realizing that they're sitting on a goldmine in the email,
32:05
that if they just directed the users back to the email
32:08
client, they'd be able to start to build that actual gold
32:10
mine and start to condition a user and actually start building
32:14
that engagement. But a funnel is also all coming through that email provider.
32:18
Let's not confuse the funnel funnel was more on the paid
32:20
advertisement side. Oh, okay. If you went to a site's rates and you purchase a
32:25
t-shirt, people will have you do some sort of discount.
32:28
You see those bins away in, or you get a discount,
32:30
you answering your email and then you just continue shopping online.
32:33
There's no directive. Maybe you go back to your email client.
32:35
Maybe you don't. The point is there's no direction.
32:38
It's just give. And then that's it.
32:40
And So over on the email side,
32:42
when you have someone's email, we talk about this all the time.
32:45
Gabby is this is something that you own,
32:47
you own their email, and you've got to respect that because they've allowed you to
32:52
have it. You know, they've given you permission. If you will,
32:54
to use their email and you need to treat that with
32:57
respect. Yes. Then over on the email side,
32:59
what you're saying is take that respect and continue to provide
33:04
them value. So they'll want to continue opening your emails.
33:08
Yeah. It's always about value, but here's the thing about the value.
33:10
Okay? Because we hear this word a lot. Oh, give value,
33:12
give value, give value. What does that mean? Value is very particular because value is not about what you
33:19
have to bring to the table. It's about again,
33:21
understanding your users. It's about understanding your audience.
33:23
Once again, it's all about understanding the heart. What values do your users have?
33:27
It's not about value. It's about the value to the reader,
33:32
to the subscriber. It's not value. It's failed them.
33:34
Yes. That's it? Because we have this five point framework where,
33:37
because with a lot of times with students and client, we go through emails.
33:40
How do you know if an email is good? Like, how do you assess if it's any good?
33:42
How do you know if it's optimized? So we have this five point basically framework where one of
33:46
the five points is ego versus benefits. We've all seen this.
33:49
You read an email and you can sense the ego versus
33:52
benefit Me. Show the award that we just got at X.
33:56
Exactly. Or look at what we have on discount.
33:59
All ego. It's look at me,
34:01
look at me, look at me, don't get me wrong.
34:04
Those emails still get Results. And that's the problem.
34:06
Is those emails still get Results. They need to be balanced.
34:09
I think it can't be every single email or the entire
34:12
email. Maybe it's just a portion because something like,
34:15
if you won an award that shows credibility of the product.
34:18
Sure. But not all your messaging.
34:20
Shouldn't be Exactly. This is why we have five points.
34:23
Like, listen, you can't be a hundred percent benefit.
34:25
There's always a balance. But if 80% of email,
34:29
we have a scoring system. It's very simple. You can tell if it's mostly ego,
34:32
mostly benefits. And that's the deal is if it's mostly ego,
34:36
then already, you're going to start to lose people.
34:38
Because again, this isn't about you. People are not opening up the emails to hear about what
34:42
you did yesterday. No one cares about you, right? And this is the big deal with friends because a
34:46
lot of people will try to emulate brands like LA,
34:49
look at Nike and look at this. It's like, listen, I'll tell you these guys,
34:52
the brands of the world are the first people to leave
34:56
millions of dollars on the table.
34:59
We're talking millions of dollars on the table.
35:01
They're the first people who make mistakes. Don't model yourself.
35:04
After people don't look at whatever it's good to get inspiration.
35:07
The most important thing is to understand how the system worked
35:09
and what the objectives are. When I started an email service provider,
35:12
I didn't know copywriting was until I got into the internet
35:15
marketing game probably about five years ago. But close to 10 years,
35:17
I run an agency. I never knew what copywriting was. I was like,
35:20
I just stuck to my basics of what psychology taught me
35:23
in terms of conditioning, understanding people and then getting them to engage because it doesn't
35:30
take much to get people to engage. It comes down to taking that extra two minutes or that
35:35
extra 30 seconds to what is it that our people are
35:38
looking for and just provide that.
35:41
So What do you think about length of emails?
35:44
Does that matter? Oh, a hundred percent.
35:46
I have a stake. You can always go wrong with long.
35:49
Always, always go wrong with longer.
35:51
You want to keep it short? Because again, if the objective of email is to build that email reputation,
35:57
and if your objective is to always be engaging,
36:00
let me ask you this. Would it make your life easier?
36:02
If I told you that in every single email you sent
36:05
that your only objective was to sell the click versus sell
36:07
the product. Do you think your life would be easier? There you go by saying Silva click.
36:12
It means getting the person who opened the email and then
36:16
whatever link there is in that email where you're directing them.
36:19
Maybe it's a link to a product, whatever the link is going to.
36:22
That's the click sell the click Gabby.
36:25
If there was one piece of advice,
36:28
you have no experience because the only people that can tell
36:31
you right now sell you on copywriting or copywriters.
36:34
Those are the only people that are going to try to sell you. You well,
36:36
But I do like some of the fun wording and all
36:38
of that, but it can't be long. It needs to be fast.
36:41
I don't know if I'd say it gets old, but I totally relate to what you're talking about.
36:46
Yeah. Again, this comes into the five point framework that we have is
36:48
again, it's all about being able to sell that click it's
36:51
Cal versus milk. And that's what we do. So in an email,
36:53
when we reviewed, this is why I always give a visual. Are you giving away the cow?
36:56
Are you letting them taste the milk? What are you doing? If you're giving away the cow,
36:59
you're not giving them any reason to click, sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit aggressive.
37:02
When I get into like my work mode, I'm liking this.
37:04
Keep going permission. Granted go.
37:07
But that's what it is. So we have that five point framework.
37:10
You've referenced the five points a couple of times.
37:13
Are you willing to share them with us? Absolutely. We call this the MP five.
37:17
It's the Maverick power five. Number one.
37:19
When you're reviewing an email, first thing you always want to look for is,
37:22
is it focused? Are you talking about one idea,
37:25
but you'll notice a lot of times in emails, people are talking about like 50 different things.
37:28
You have to be speaking about one idea. And number two,
37:31
is that pain or desire of the email clearly demonstrated there
37:35
has to be a clear painter desire demonstrated number three.
37:38
Are there yeses? Your users have to subscribers need to be saying yes in
37:44
their head while they're reading it, you can ask an actual yes.
37:47
Question. Or they just need to be agreeing in their head
37:50
Or they can see themselves in what you're saying.
37:53
Sure. Yeah. As long as it's yes. Number four is Cal versus.
37:56
Now when you're reading an email, are you giving away the cow?
37:59
Right? You're giving them everything in an email. Are you just letting them taste the milk and last but
38:03
not least, as I mentioned, the Eagle versus benefit,
38:06
that's again another way. So these five points will help you gauge,
38:11
okay. Is my email built for engagement now?
38:13
Because that's the objective. The emails have to be built to actually engage,
38:16
to get people to click. And this kind of ties in with your other question,
38:21
which is, can you go along with email one way that you want
38:23
to test with that is basically testing different links to actually
38:26
see how far down the rabbit hole people will actually go.
38:30
But that's something that I usually work with people afterwards,
38:33
because it's first sending an email with one sentence,
38:36
show me that you can destroy your click-through rate just by
38:40
sending a one sentence email.
38:42
Cause that's the most important thing is once you know how
38:44
to get engagement with one sentence,
38:46
then you can flower it up a little bit. Oh, absolutely.
38:49
But the whole point is less, is more when it comes to email and there's a time
38:53
and place for longer emails, by the way. But as a rule of thumb,
38:56
it's always less is more understand emails place in the online
39:00
world. Okay? It's not a sales page to make your life simple.
39:03
What do you need to do in an email? I know what you need to do.
39:06
You need to sell a click, sell the click. That is it.
39:08
I see Mean going to very short paragraphs,
39:12
maybe one or two sentences for a paragraph versus the old
39:15
days of all this long information.
39:18
That's right on target. And then I also hear that most people,
39:22
and I know I do this skim an email,
39:24
kind of want to know what this is about. Why am I reading it?
39:27
And then if I'm not exactly sure,
39:30
I want to know more. Then I'll go back and read it word for word.
39:33
That's what people don't realize. It's a display medium.
39:36
We don't live in an ideal world where if you have
39:38
a thousand person list and you're using MailChimp,
39:41
it's like those thousand people are going to see your email.
39:44
Again, you have to work to get in front of them.
39:46
Gmail is not going to just say, okay here, no, you have to work to actually get in front of
39:50
them and even use your experience. When you open up an email,
39:52
you see a long game. Well it's I want to read this. It's like, no, you don't want to read this.
39:55
There's some people who love it. And then other people who don't.
39:57
So this is why it's like, listen, you cannot cater to every single one of your users.
40:01
You cannot do that. So don't do some short and some long,
40:04
no, no you should do that. No, no, absolutely. Okay.
40:06
But what I'm saying is a good rule of thumb. If you don't know what you're doing yet,
40:09
in terms of how long you can take your emails,
40:12
always stick to your basic framework,
40:14
email, which is selling that click to actually get the user
40:17
to wherever page you need to, because that's the most important part is just getting the user
40:21
to that actual page. But in terms of testing,
40:24
the actual length, as I mentioned, that's something that I kind of go a little bit more
40:27
detail into my course. You don't want to overthink it.
40:29
Just keep it really simple in terms of sticking to why
40:33
people came to you like the painter desire. Like again,
40:35
just selling that click. If today you was looking to sell the cup from the
40:38
whole point is being able to sell the click to actually
40:41
get to the actual cup. Maybe you have the five ways to reuse the old cups
40:46
or whatever it is. Something that's simple, whatever it is,
40:48
just something to get them the same way that you would
40:51
see an ad online. Cause that's all email is, email is a display medium.
40:54
You see something, you go to it. That is it.
40:57
We're going to test me with your MP4 focused means it
41:01
should be a single topic.
41:03
Single action that you're looking for.
41:05
Single idea like chapters of a book almost.
41:09
Yeah. Like a single thing. Okay. Second is pain or desire.
41:12
What is the reason why the person is going to take
41:15
their precious time and look and go through it?
41:18
So it has to relate to something that they are needing
41:20
or solution that they would have correct?
41:22
Something that they value. Yeah. Three. Are they continually affirming what you're saying?
41:27
They see themselves in the wording.
41:29
They agree with your comments. They're saying yes.
41:32
There's that, that when people agree,
41:35
agree, agree. They naturally go on to the next step.
41:38
And since we're trying to sell the click, that kind of feels like mentally you're setting them up to
41:42
naturally go for the clay. Exactly. Yes.
41:45
So that's The three, the four is,
41:48
but hold back. Don't tell them everything.
41:50
Cause there's no reason for them to click. If you've given it all in the email,
41:54
there you go. Yes. Okay. So that's four and five.
41:57
Make sure that you're not focusing on yourself and how good
42:01
you are and how great your products are.
42:04
Even though we know they are, you need to be focusing on what the reason is that
42:08
that's important to the reader. Exactly. There you go.
42:11
Okay. Perfect. This is Golden.
42:13
Thank you so much. This is great information.
42:15
I do have a problem though.
42:18
Yes. My problem is what if my emails aren't being opened?
42:23
That's a good question. Number one, you need to understand why your emails are not being open.
42:27
We have to Lay the groundwork. You're not going to get a hundred percent open rates.
42:31
That's not even realistic. No. I mean the only time you'll get a hundred percent
42:34
open rates and let's just a username or password type of
42:36
deal where people have to get an account information.
42:39
That's the only time you get a hundred percent because people
42:41
need that email to actually log into something.
42:43
That's the only time would you A stake in the ground
42:46
as to what range is good?
42:49
Yes. It depends on two things. Volume. Cause that's the one thing that people don't realize I'm
42:53
Gary is everyone always talks about these great open rates and
42:55
click through rates, but no one ever looks at the numbers. No one looks at the volume.
42:58
Oh, I'm getting to that. I don't do wait.
43:01
I'm getting there. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's like you have this number porn that goes around,
43:05
especially in the e-com space. Cause they're all about the number porn,
43:07
how much sales they're making, not understanding profit and all that.
43:10
So it's important to actually understand that volume is very,
43:14
very important. Niche is very, very important as well.
43:16
Not as critical, but the volume is really, really going to be critical and the type of traffic.
43:21
So if someone, I had a hundred people on their email list and they
43:24
have 70 people opening because it's a lot of friends and
43:28
family right now, 70% sounds great.
43:31
But someone then who has thousand and 70 people open,
43:36
if I'm doing my numbers, right? That's 7% correct?
43:40
Yep. It's still the same raw number of people opening,
43:43
but it's against a bigger number. And so the 7% against the thousand List doesn't feel as
43:49
great. How does that Play out into what you're saying with
43:52
volume? And that's the whole point is to understand the actual
43:54
volume. The other thing too here is you'd mentioned open rates.
43:59
A lot of them will come to me because they're like, Oh my open rates start to decrease the law.
44:02
And one of the other questions I ask them is what is your click through rate?
44:05
And then they'll go blank. I don't know. My click through rate is,
44:07
Well, maybe they didn't even have any links in the email
44:09
to start With it's possible. But then again, there's a problem.
44:12
Basically. The reason why I'm saying that is because it just
44:14
goes to show the level of understanding about email.
44:16
Again, if you don't understand, it's like going to Vegas with a million dollars going to
44:21
the crop's table or to blackjack,
44:23
but not knowing how to play. Right. And you're just like,
44:26
Hmm, here's money. You just throwing, you know, maybe you win some,
44:29
maybe you don't. But the point is you don't and maybe you lose Vegas.
44:32
He totally broke afterwards. And it's cause you don't understand how to actually play the
44:35
game. Going back to the actual volume itself,
44:38
they do have a guideline in terms of if any lists
44:41
are under 10,000, like when you're dealing with the list of a hundred,
44:44
like that's obviously your numbers are going to pick anything under
44:47
10,000. It's typically a rule of,
44:49
you can usually get open rates. An ideal open rate that you want to be aiming for
44:53
is about 25 to about 35%.
44:57
That would be ideal. But the other thing too is you always want to be
45:00
looking at your click through rates. So your click through rates,
45:02
if anything, under a 10,000 people, your click through rates,
45:05
you want to be aiming for anywhere from between three to
45:08
about 10%, because the clicks is where everything is kind of like a
45:12
catch 22, especially with opening your emails.
45:14
It's like, well, how do you get people to click if no one's opening and then vice versa.
45:18
But that's the most important thing is to really understand that
45:20
your focus always has to be on selling that click and
45:24
going back to the open rates, the open rates is once you understand how everything works,
45:28
it's just a matter of understanding. Okay. Is it a deliverability issue?
45:31
Because it could be most of the time if you're not getting the opens as you want.
45:34
It's because you have a deliverability issue Before we go there.
45:37
Do you have a question for you? I think a lot of people know how to see their
45:40
open rates. You know, it's something that all service providers are showing.
45:44
How do you see your click through rate? Well, most email service providers show with click-through rates.
45:48
The only thing is you need to make sure,
45:50
cause I believe that I'm not mistaken and don't quote me
45:53
on this because I want to see what's constant contact,
45:55
but it was one of the big ESPs that used to,
45:58
instead of showing click-through rates, they show you click to open rates,
46:02
which is so deceptive and so wrong.
46:05
It's so mislead, clicking To open is just opening your email,
46:09
reading the email. Yeah. It's clicked open,
46:12
but it's very deceiving because a click through rates,
46:15
which is the proper metric is that is based on the
46:18
amount that you sent versus click to open rates,
46:21
which is the click to the amount of people that actually
46:24
opened your email. Oh yeah.
46:27
Which is very deceptive. So then you will be like,
46:29
wow, I got this amazing click through rates,
46:31
80% open rate. I got a 35% click-through rate.
46:34
And it's like, Hmm. Yeah, you should check that.
46:36
See if it's click through rate or click the open rates
46:39
because email service providers, like I said,
46:41
their job is to provide a service,
46:44
which is to send emails. So the more you send,
46:47
the more you make, they don't care.
46:49
If you make money, if you have deliverability issues,
46:53
they don't care. We need to be looking at our clean open rates and
46:58
then also the clicks. So there's that.
47:01
But now let's get into this whole deliverability issue.
47:04
Oh, this makes me sick to my stomach.
47:07
Why does it make you sick? Because I feel there are a lot of emails that we
47:14
send and I'll tell you why in a second,
47:16
that people don't even have a chance to see because they're
47:19
landing in the promotion folder of Gmail or the spam folder.
47:24
And the reason I say that is two reasons.
47:27
Number one, I'll have people saying I didn't get it. I didn't get it.
47:30
I was actually looking for this email and I never found
47:33
it. Then we have to go to your borough, shuffle to go to like all that.
47:36
And then the other reason is I'll go to my own
47:38
promotion folder and so many emails that I really want that
47:42
I have to move over into my primary folder.
47:45
And then two weeks later, they're back into the promotion folder.
47:50
Can you tell him a little irritated about it? Definitely. But you also said something very important at the same
47:57
time is your main frustration. Okay. Obviously for them ending up their promo tab and spam,
48:01
right? If they're not going to be interested in an opening,
48:04
I want to know that because I want to talk to
48:07
you afterwards. Maybe our final thing will be cleaning your list,
48:10
but that's okay because people might sign up because they want
48:13
to download that I've given them and the value came in
48:15
the download, but you know what, right now they don't want my other stuff.
48:19
They don't want to know about the podcast. They're not little really looking at starting a business.
48:23
But as long as I know that they've seen it and
48:26
had a choice and I'm feeling like I don't have control
48:30
over actually being able to show them for them to be
48:33
able to say yes or no. That's where my frustration is.
48:36
Okay. Those are all very valid. Well, one thing you always want to avoid doing,
48:39
which is how to say that it's a bad thing.
48:41
Cause the one thing that I heard you saying is you really, really want to make sure that people see your emails.
48:45
And that, that is a critical thing. Obviously the whole point is you want people to see your
48:48
email, not all your emails are going to get in front
48:50
of everyone all the time. Okay? It's a numbers game.
48:53
It's the way it is. This is why it's important to understand.
48:56
Number one, if it really is a deliverability issue,
48:59
you had mentioned something really, really critical, which is the promo tab.
49:02
And that's thing that people always ask is, well, the promo title.
49:05
What about that? I remember when the promo tab first came out in 2006,
49:08
trust me. I was not happy for two weeks.
49:10
I'm not going to lie to you. We struggled. But two weeks afterwards,
49:13
we were back to business as usual, the promo tab.
49:16
Okay. So Jamie and let's try to kill. They hate email.
49:19
They have tried to kill it. Not once they tried to kill it with wave.
49:22
I'm not sure if you remember wave, they came out with wave about 15 years ago to kill
49:26
email. It didn't work. And then they tried the promo tab to kill it.
49:29
Once again, it didn't work because what happens when you are unable to
49:33
find your favorite email, where do you, I go to the promo tab.
49:36
Exactly. But I don't go there every day.
49:39
And so there's things that go down the list that I
49:43
might've wanted to see, but I'll never have a chance to see it.
49:46
And I guarantee you, most of our listeners,
49:49
customers will never even think of ever going in that promo
49:52
time. And there's a lot of assumptions about the promo tab,
49:55
the promo tab. You have to look at it this way. It's still the inbox people have at this point.
50:00
Been conditioned that if they don't find it in the promo,
50:02
if they don't find it in their primary, they're going to go to promo.
50:05
They even did a study on this. Trust me, this is something that we monitor on a daily basis.
50:09
We monitor, I don't worry about myself, going to promo my stuff goes into promo all the time.
50:12
I don't care because it's still inbox my opens and my
50:16
click-through rates where they might suffer a little bit in terms
50:20
of okay. If my normal open rate was 25%,
50:23
okay. Maybe went down to a 23%,
50:26
but it's not major. It's not major enough to be like,
50:28
Oh, this is a major problem. What is a major problem is deliverability because I've had a
50:33
few clients with Infusionsoft. The deliverability is definitely an issue.
50:36
Stab me in the heart. Gabby. I'm just being realistic in terms of like I've dealt
50:42
with these guys. So define deliverability.
50:45
Well, deliverability is just one definition. You have delivery,
50:48
which you hear a lot of ESPs talking about.
50:50
They're like, Oh, we have nine 90% delivery.
50:52
Which means you send an email and actually gets to where
50:56
it's supposed to go. Once again, the only job the email service provider has,
51:00
their only job is that if you have a thousand person
51:03
email list and all those thousand people are valid and those
51:05
thousand people get delivered. Okay. But delivery does not mean deliverability.
51:11
So this is why they manipulate you into thinking that 99%
51:14
means 99% of people will see your emails. No, that's not true.
51:17
Deliverability is ending up in inbox.
51:20
That's deliverability. It's your inbox placement. So it's like putting an envelope in a mailbox and having
51:26
someone open it on the other end, actually knowing that someone opened it,
51:30
knowing that someone opened it. Okay. Yes.
51:33
So once again, the ESP, just imagine if you're going to use the envelope,
51:36
the ESP is the mailman. That's all he is.
51:38
So if you're using the envelope as receiving mail,
51:41
the ESP would be the mailman who would basically sending the
51:45
actual email that would be delivering the envelope,
51:47
Delivering it in into your mailbox at Home.
51:49
Exactly. But once again, you have to actually see it.
51:52
What happens if you open up your mailbox and you have a bunch of junk stuff in there,
51:56
you go through it. Maybe you throw some out, maybe you keep some it and so on and so forth.
51:59
It's just important to actually understand the difference in terms of
52:02
terminology delivery, just beans it's being actually delivered deliverability is the actual bowl.
52:08
The person actually seeing the email and actually being delivered into
52:11
the inbox And still having the decision to be made to
52:16
open it or not. Oh yeah. You still have to open or not.
52:18
Deliverability is before actually opening.
52:21
So it's deliver deliverability open click,
52:25
correct? Yes. And then of course,
52:28
if you want to avoid deliverability issues,
52:31
because again, in email you always have an easy,
52:33
or you have a hard way. I remember I came from the hard way of email,
52:36
meaning I came from the affiliate world. Then this is why I know you're sitting on a gold
52:40
mine because I was the person who Alicia said,
52:42
you had an email list, thriving business, but you have an email list,
52:45
but you don't know what you're doing. So I would take your email list and I would monetize
52:48
it for you. That is what I did for over 10 years.
52:51
I'm monetize other people's email lists.
52:53
That's how I got all that experience. That's how I got the experience of the ESP.
52:56
Cause that's what I was doing at the email service provider of clients,
52:59
right? I was helping them with their strategies and how to
53:01
email and so on and so forth. So this is why I know you're sitting on a gold
53:04
mine is that I've managed this for thousands of people back
53:07
in the day. And the one thing you don't want to ever do,
53:11
I wouldn't say don't want to do it, but you want to avoid giving away your email list to
53:15
other people to be able to manage. You don't want to give it to an agency because at
53:18
the end of the day, anytime you let someone else touch your lists,
53:22
you're subjecting that list to a possibility of again,
53:26
of being stolen of anything. Remember this is your data.
53:29
This is your people don't want to just keep it away. Well, first off,
53:32
they're trusting you when they give you their email address.
53:34
That's number one. Yeah. And secondly,
53:38
long, hard earned email addresses.
53:41
It's a big asset. Getting back to the deliverability.
53:46
Yes. It varies based on your service provider.
53:48
It sounds like you're saying No. We remember everything always goes back to your email reputation.
53:53
Let me break it down this way. If you want your emails to be seen,
53:55
it's all about hitting the inbox, which is deliverability and deliverability is based not on your email
54:00
service provider, not on the tools that you can use.
54:03
Put on your email reputation. How do you keep your email reputation high,
54:07
always be engaging. You get the open, you get the click.
54:10
And if you're lucky, you get the reply and what's your objective for every single
54:12
email is to keep that engagement rate high.
54:15
How do you do it? Sell the click. If you have a good reputation for deliverability,
54:21
then new emails that are going to go with your next
54:28
email that you're sending have a higher probability of landing in
54:32
the inbox because your deliverability reputation is high.
54:37
Correct. And the other thing too, that I should mention is your email reputation.
54:41
Like anything else changes every time you send an email.
54:43
So this is why there's no like Senator forget it.
54:46
This is why there's no perfect DSPs. Because every time you send an email,
54:49
your reputation changes. So this is why just as a good guideline,
54:53
this is why you always want to sell the click. If you want to avoid deliverability and you may not ever
54:57
be able to avoid a hundred percent because even I even
54:59
at some point, like I'm going to suffer a deliverability issue,
55:02
but I know exactly how to get out for me. It's not an issue I spent 10 years going in and
55:06
out of spam folders, not a problem. So your deliverability is poor.
55:10
Yes. And to make it better,
55:12
you have to increase your reputation and to increase your reputation.
55:17
You need to have people taking action opening and selling the
55:21
click, but how can you get them to even see it,
55:24
to increase your reputation?
55:26
If your deliverability is already low,
55:29
the catch 22, right? There is, I don't mean for you to give away all the goodness,
55:33
but I'm just trying to understand how it all works.
55:36
Yeah. It's your typical catch 20. So it's like we use you,
55:39
you're stuck in the spam folder. How do you get out? You don't need to pay a great copywriter for email.
55:43
What you need is patience. That is what you need as patients.
55:47
When it comes to resolving deliverability issues,
55:50
it just comes down to understanding the strategy that you need
55:52
to do in order to get out. Which is, once again,
55:55
it's just focusing on engagement and it's not about quantity.
55:58
So a lot of people think, well, you know, I have this list of whatever it is,
56:00
10,000 people. It's not a matter of sending to all this 10,000
56:04
people. That's not what it's a matter about the Gmails and
56:06
the yahoos of the world. Remember all of these people,
56:09
the GMLs the yahoos, the AOL, they don't speak to one another,
56:11
depending on your email list, makeup, depending also on your deliverability issues,
56:15
you may only be maybe not delivering to Gmail,
56:19
but your other ones may be doing perfectly well.
56:21
That's the deal is it's a matter of just focusing on
56:24
the engagement, revising the strategy,
56:26
to just focus on the active people,
56:28
the actual people that are engaging, all the Gmails of the world,
56:31
want to see that? Yeah. People want to receive the emails.
56:34
One of the reasons why we don't offer deliverability services,
56:38
we do not do that. And you'll see a lot of people online.
56:40
If you go to whatever Upwork or whatever,
56:42
you're going to find people that will solve deliverability for you.
56:46
Especially if you're suffering from deliverability, it, depending on how bad it is,
56:49
you can't solve it in a one-shot.
56:51
This is why we don't do it. So you can come to me. You're suffering deliverability issue.
56:54
I solve it for you. But guess what?
56:56
If you don't fix your bad habits,
56:59
it's just going to keep happening. This is why I wrote the book because I was like,
57:02
listen, no one can solve your deliverability. Unless it is very something specific.
57:06
Like, okay, there was a link that was being flagged or whatever we
57:08
change it. Nope. Sending practices are great. You're doing everything.
57:10
But it was just a link that was getting flagged, whatever it is.
57:13
So in that case, yes, deliverability can be solved.
57:15
But nine out of 10 cases, when people come to me for deliverability issues,
57:19
because they don't understand email, they're listening to the Google.
57:22
As you listened to the ESPs of the world, listen, you can solve deliverability.
57:26
Deliverability can literally we've solved it in minutes.
57:29
Okay? It's a matter of understanding what the problem is and
57:32
how to fix it. It is possible if your emails have been landing the spam
57:37
folder, when you start fixing things,
57:39
those emails to those same people who have already been going
57:42
to the spam folder at some point, may miraculously show up in the inbox,
57:48
if you have patients, correct. Absolutely.
57:51
They will go back into the inbox a hundred percent.
57:54
It's just a matter of when is the end. It's just a matter of just patients and P five.
57:58
That's the guideline that we use in terms of just understanding
58:01
the framework of an email. Anyone can do this and you can even do this.
58:04
Now the best practice is looking at other people's mistakes.
58:08
So just go through your emails, go through your spam folder,
58:11
go through your inbox. And you can definitely start to see even people that are
58:15
whatever it is. Even emails that you like. You could be like,
58:17
Hmm. This email could be a lot better because at the
58:19
end of the day, if a hundred people clicking on your email and you have
58:23
a, whatever it is, and once you see a 2% conversion rate,
58:26
what happens when you think you sent 300 people now with
58:30
that same conversion rates, 300 clicks,
58:32
what do you think now is going to happen to your revenue, but that same conversion rates.
58:36
So we can all learn just by going into our spam
58:39
folder and seeing who's there and then looking and trying to
58:42
figure out why that is and not doing that.
58:44
Yeah. It's not even figuring out the why going through the MP five,
58:47
you can see it. They're not engaging.
58:49
They don't understand their users. They don't understand how email works because a lot of them
58:54
will just pick an email service while they pick Clavio Clavio
58:57
in boxes. That's what everyone talks about. Take MailChimp,
58:59
right? And they just don't go any further than that.
59:01
And then they'll send out their first couple of emails and they'll be like,
59:03
Oh wow, we can great open rates, great click-through rates.
59:06
Then a couple of days later, they'll be like, Oh, our open rates are down.
59:09
I guess email doesn't work. Email sucks. Well, you know what?
59:11
I got other things to do. And then they'll go focus on something else.
59:14
People will say that about Facebook ads and everything,
59:16
you know, you try it, it doesn't work for you. It's always easy to blame what you're using versus that maybe
59:22
you're not using it properly, which I believe you talked about it in the very beginning.
59:26
So really quickly, I'm looking at the time.
59:29
I've kept you so long, but I am loving this because I'm hearing things I've never
59:32
heard before. Credibly, interesting to me,
59:35
just really quickly touch on cleaning your lips.
59:37
Best email hygiene is one of those.
59:39
I always like to explain it almost like, you know,
59:41
imagine you get your dream house right at the beach.
59:44
If you're gonna get a dream house close to the beach and chances are,
59:47
you probably get some flood insurance just in case you want
59:49
to protect that beautiful dream house. I'd be buying a boat.
59:52
But go ahead. Did do something to protect that dream.
59:56
Listen, you're going to spend all this money on a lead and we're talking more on the paid side.
1:00:00
The organic, obviously you're not, but on the paid side,
1:00:02
it's like, you just paid whatever it is. Three, three, $4 for leads.
1:00:05
One penny to protect that lead.
1:00:07
Because again, your email reputation is being built where you ever sent that
1:00:11
first email. So even before he ever press send your email reputation,
1:00:14
the GMLs of the world are already saying Mary's candles.
1:00:17
I don't know if she's going to be any good, because again, the genius in the world,
1:00:20
they don't care if people signed up to Mary's candles because
1:00:22
they love Mary's cat. They don't care. GML is just a machine.
1:00:26
There's no people that look at your email. It's a machine that looks at your email.
1:00:29
Doesn't care. It only knows one thing. Did this person engaged?
1:00:33
Yes or no. Is this person valid? Yes or no?
1:00:35
Okay. This is why going to hygiene. The hygiene aspect.
1:00:38
It is really critical. And the reason why I say your reputation is being built
1:00:42
beforehand is because even before you send that email,
1:00:45
the Gmail. So the world already know if that email exists or not
1:00:48
and their logic to them. Because again, it's not a person it's a computer logic.
1:00:52
Remember you're not dealing with people, logic. You're dealing computer logic.
1:00:55
Computer logic says, well, if this email address is incorrect,
1:00:59
that means Mary Kendall's harvested this email.
1:01:02
She's a spammer. That's their logic. So this is why I always tell people,
1:01:05
listen, just the extra penny, take that extra penny.
1:01:08
Make sure that email is valid because again,
1:01:10
people make mistakes. How many times does your phone?
1:01:13
Auto-correct how many times you have like bat fingers at a
1:01:16
point that slips whatever it happens.
1:01:19
So you're talking then about like hard bounces and things like
1:01:23
that. That happened, correct? That's a hard balance.
1:01:25
That's part of hygiene. You have two folds of hygiene. You have a hygiene before you send,
1:01:29
and then you have hygiene afterwards, which is when you'd know if they bounced.
1:01:33
Correct. But the whole point is you want to avoid doing that because if you send an email,
1:01:36
but it's not valid to Gmail, like I said,
1:01:38
you're not dealing with people, logic. You're dealing with your logic To run your list through.
1:01:44
Are there checkers or something that you run your list through
1:01:46
to make sure that they're all valid? Oh, absolutely.
1:01:49
Any other services out there? Yes. You got to tell us,
1:01:51
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. There's a lot of things here I take for granted.
1:01:55
As I mentioned, I've been doing it for such a long time, but yes,
1:01:58
hygiene. Yes. There are companies out there. We recommend X verify,
1:02:01
verify as I would never recommend anyone.
1:02:04
That number one, I never used myself. I learned that the hard way and that I do not
1:02:08
know our trust. So I know the people there.
1:02:10
I trust the people there because as I mentioned any time,
1:02:13
you put your email, especially your email list.
1:02:16
When you expose your email list to any third party provider,
1:02:18
you are your list to anyone who could potentially steal it.
1:02:23
I mean, don't be consumed with it, but it's definitely something to be concerned with.
1:02:27
So how often should you go through for verification?
1:02:30
It's only the first time and it's not something you have
1:02:32
to do expert for. It's great. You can actually just put a piece of script on your
1:02:35
page and are automatically when someone's typing in their email,
1:02:37
it'll actually live check. So if someone does FF fingers will be like,
1:02:40
oops. Oh, I understand.
1:02:43
Okay. I got it. I got it. So it's not like you're sending your whole list there and
1:02:46
they're running a scrub on it or something.
1:02:49
Yeah, No, no, no, no. You can do it that way.
1:02:51
So what we would recommend is again, so you have the verification that's present and then you have
1:02:55
the verification after. So let's just say you've been dormant for,
1:02:58
I don't know, two months you haven't sent any emails. What you can do is if you've been dormant for anything
1:03:02
over about 30 days, then you should definitely verify,
1:03:05
you should put your email list through a verification process just
1:03:08
to be safe. Okay. Like I said, it's always to err,
1:03:10
on the side of caution, what does it cost? Like a couple of bucks to get it,
1:03:13
err, on the side of caution, just do that. So you can do that where you can upload your entire
1:03:16
list and it'll scrub it for you. If you haven't emailed in a long time or you can
1:03:20
do it on the live, we always suggest people, listen, just do it on the live one because it's easier.
1:03:24
You don't want, you don't have to even think about it. It's automatically done.
1:03:27
You're not doing any scrub process. That's automatically being done.
1:03:30
When you don't even see it. You services like lead pages and all of that.
1:03:34
Can you Connect X verify verified and things like that where
1:03:37
they're entering in emails outside of your website.
1:03:41
Good question. I'd have to double check.
1:03:43
I know what a simple script. So as long as the provider,
1:03:47
whatever, if you're using lead pages, if you can,
1:03:50
then you should technically be able to. But if not,
1:03:52
that's the, We don't have to go too crazy here.
1:03:55
I just do want to talk about cleaning. We're in the middle of cleaning our list right now and
1:03:59
we're getting ready to delete like thousands of people because they
1:04:03
haven't opened for two years, but I'll give you some free advice for like here.
1:04:06
Okay? Yes. There's a couple of things that you can do you always
1:04:09
like to do. It depends on how aggressive of a win-back campaign you want
1:04:12
to get. Because again, you earn this list. I, to say you earn this list,
1:04:15
but you built this list. It's good to actually know what you can get out of
1:04:17
it. I mean like a lot of the people that are
1:04:20
on the list are either people gotten freebies from us or
1:04:23
attended my webinars that go into my masterclasses because we got
1:04:27
thousands of people who sign up for that.
1:04:29
And then that was it. Like that's all that happened.
1:04:32
Conditioning is really key because it's all about being able to
1:04:35
weed out those, those people that really, really are interested in not just the lurkers,
1:04:38
but that's, you know, a strategy for afterwards, like okay.
1:04:40
And kind of learned your mistakes a little bit. Now let's see how you can use a different strategy.
1:04:44
So for you, what I would suggest if you're looking to get rid of
1:04:47
thousands of people, what I would do as a basic kind of win-back strategy,
1:04:51
do you have SMS data or only email data,
1:04:53
only email, only email. But what I would basically do is depending on how dormant
1:04:58
they are granted, you know, I don't know how your email reputation is right now.
1:05:01
If you have a good email reputation, then you can do this.
1:05:04
But what I would do first is I would do a
1:05:06
very, very simple win-back campaign.
1:05:08
And what I would do is I would actually bucket your
1:05:11
users depending on how many you have delicious.
1:05:13
See if you query your database and I don't know,
1:05:15
let's just say you have like 10, we'll say inactives,
1:05:19
last thing you want to do is send to that 10,000
1:05:21
inactives, because guess what? They've Already proven that they're inactive.
1:05:24
So none of them will Get delivered. Well, it's not that, but your email reputation is going to take a hit,
1:05:28
right? So you'd want to do that because what happens if
1:05:31
you send an email, no one opens loans, clicks. Remember your email reputation has been engaged every single time
1:05:37
you send an email. Typically what I would like to do is if this is
1:05:40
why I asked you if you had SMS data, because what I always like to do is use all of
1:05:44
your social media channels. Not don't use them against each other,
1:05:47
use them to compliment one another because that's what people don't
1:05:50
do is they don't use email to compliment. So what I always do is what you can do in
1:05:54
this case is since you already have those users, what I would do is I would suggest that you do
1:05:59
a very simple even just do a very simple reengagement campaign
1:06:02
on Facebook, whatever it is, take those 10,000
1:06:04
people that haven't opened the click and just do an ads
1:06:06
targeting directly then because you can target them directly.
1:06:09
I know. And I have, I do that. So that's good.
1:06:12
Okay. So take them and do an engagement campaign on Facebook
1:06:15
because they're obviously proving that they're not opening the email.
1:06:18
Yeah. Well, you don't know why yet, because again,
1:06:21
I'm going on the assumption that your deliverability is okay,
1:06:23
but I'm going to set a bet that your deliverability probably
1:06:25
could be improved. Of course it can, but I'll just use everyone's.
1:06:28
That could be improved. Okay. Just thinking about that again,
1:06:31
like these 10,000 people, they're probably not all gonna match on Facebook,
1:06:34
but it doesn't matter. You don't need all 10,000. You just need to move the needle a bit,
1:06:37
run a re-engagement campaign on Facebook. But again,
1:06:40
again, the objective is to get them back into their email. So they see a Facebook campaign.
1:06:44
What's the directive going to be, it's going to be,
1:06:47
we have something for you, blah, blah, blah, blah,
1:06:49
blah. You could be sending them to a page first. But again,
1:06:51
the whole objective is to get them back into their email
1:06:54
clients. You want to avoid any sort of freebie incentive again,
1:06:58
you know what I'm saying? Granted, just test different incentives.
1:07:00
Cause at this point you don't really care about the intensive. You just need to get the engagement,
1:07:04
but just test different incentives, get them to a landing page.
1:07:07
And on that landing page again, it's the whole point is we got something for you,
1:07:10
landed on this page, cure email. Now we got something for you and that's going to ignite
1:07:14
them again as click, you can base your win-back strategy on that.
1:07:19
But all these people now that have engaged on that ad
1:07:21
that have now opened and clicked. You can use that for your win-back strategy and use that
1:07:27
as a promotion for the next three to five days to
1:07:29
be like, listen, okay, you were interested in this campaign,
1:07:31
you signed up, you still want to improve your life,
1:07:33
blah, blah, blah, all that great stuff. This is how you do it.
1:07:36
And you can push that for two or three days.
1:07:38
And then afterwards at the end of the three days you
1:07:41
archive the data, the people that haven't responded,
1:07:43
you archive, you don't delete the data and deleted off your ESP,
1:07:47
but then archive the data because that data is still trust
1:07:49
me. Okay. I use data from 15 years ago and still I had
1:07:54
an email the in 15 years it's still made money.
1:07:57
It's still responded. So are you archiving it by just like downloading it as
1:08:01
an Excel file or something? Correct? Yeah.
1:08:03
Yeah. Okay. That's what we're doing. Okay. Yes.
1:08:05
So you download it, you archive it,
1:08:07
you save it for rainy day because you never know.
1:08:10
These are people that are already proven that they're interested in
1:08:12
something that you have not to be confused.
1:08:14
I, to make sure our listeners understand Not to be confused
1:08:17
with people who have said they wanted to be opted out
1:08:19
who have unsubscribed. Those guys have to go.
1:08:21
You have no choice. Yeah, Absolutely.
1:08:24
I mean the unsubscribes, that's your suppression fund. That's the one thing too,
1:08:26
that people a good thing that you actually brought that up
1:08:28
because that's one thing that people forget actually bring over when
1:08:32
the switch ESPs is they'll start to actually upload the unsubscribes
1:08:36
as well. Not realizing that they need to suppress those.
1:08:39
Hopefully that made sense in terms of the win-back strategy.
1:08:42
Yes, it totally does. I love it.
1:08:44
This came at such a great time because we've been going
1:08:46
through this and tagging and figuring it out.
1:08:49
I have two companies on one list, so we've got to break up the companies and like there's
1:08:53
a bunch of stuff we needed to do. I'm doing a lot,
1:08:55
right? There are things that we can do better.
1:08:58
This has been so incredible because I love when I'm learning
1:09:02
things that I've never heard before,
1:09:04
because I've been in business for a long time.
1:09:07
I've been exposed to man. I was in business before there was even an email and
1:09:11
we were talking about what mill through the computer,
1:09:13
like, you know, all of that. And not that I know everything by a long shot,
1:09:18
but I've been exposed to so many things,
1:09:20
but a lot of this has been new Gabby,
1:09:22
incredibly interesting. And I appreciate your taking so much time with us.
1:09:26
I do want to close out by you telling us some
1:09:29
more about your book, because I'm quite sure that there are going to be people
1:09:32
interested in getting so share a little bit more about that
1:09:36
Woke up one day. And I was like, you know what? The world needs something.
1:09:39
Every single person that has an email list needs this.
1:09:42
I was like, you know what, let me just write the book. I would just write the book in a very kind of
1:09:45
simple way, because as you can tell,
1:09:48
I mean, I love email, but it can be a little bit technical and sometimes I
1:09:52
can get a little bit too nitty gritty, which most people,
1:09:55
especially if they're running a business, they want to get into the nitty gritty.
1:09:57
They just want the higher level. So this is why I wrote the book.
1:09:59
Cause I was like, you know what, everyone that has an email list needs this once this as
1:10:03
a foundation, because this is your foundation. It's like anything else you're building a house needs to know
1:10:07
how deep the foundation, how to build it. This is it. Because again,
1:10:10
it's all about hitting that inbox. And this is when I came up with a system cause
1:10:13
I was like, listen, okay. I can either be fighting deliverability whole day,
1:10:16
which I don't want to be doing. Or it could actually be growing the business.
1:10:20
Very, very easy book. It's about, only about 60 pages long.
1:10:23
It's two hours of audio. So you can just sit back,
1:10:26
relax, learn about email marketing, learn everything that you need about the foundation.
1:10:31
And then that will give you enough. Is your book available on Amazon?
1:10:34
It's not on Amazon. No. It's available on my websites because it's through a PDF
1:10:39
and it's through an audio book. Okay, perfect. And your website is email maverick.com
1:10:44
and give biz listeners. You know that that's going to be in the show notes
1:10:46
so you can just go reference it over there. In case you don't have a pen and paper,
1:10:50
you can write that down now, Gabby, like I am beyond thankful,
1:10:55
like I said earlier, for all of this information things,
1:10:58
I didn't know. I understand email.
1:11:01
So, so, so much better. Where have you been for so long?
1:11:06
I'm here. I'm hiding. It's like everyone always talks about like who's behind the curtain.
1:11:10
It's like, well it's me behind the curtain. Thank you so much for joining me today.
1:11:13
Yeah, No worries. Thank you. So, okay.
1:11:20
Let's see how good we were as students.
1:11:23
I warned you already. There is a one question.
1:11:27
Pop quiz. You ready?
1:11:31
What is the single purpose of any email?
1:11:36
Dun dun dun dun dun dun,
1:11:39
answer to sell the click.
1:11:44
If you got it right. A gold star next to your name today.
1:11:49
I don't know about you, but I've gone through this information twice already.
1:11:53
And I'm seeing our email strategy in an entirely different light.
1:11:59
I know it's busy season right now. Maybe Mark.
1:12:02
This episode is saved so you can come back and focus
1:12:05
on the direction here more after things calm down.
1:12:09
It's definitely one not to just here,
1:12:12
but actually take action. On next week,
1:12:16
we are switching our focus to social media as if our
1:12:20
focus is ever off social media.
1:12:24
I took a strong stand in our conversation on some of
1:12:27
the Instagram things I'm seeing. And Bobby challenged me to revise my thinking a little bit.
1:12:34
I'm wondering if you feel the same way about this that
1:12:36
I do or did because by the time this airs,
1:12:41
I may have just put up my first Instagram real.
1:12:45
We'll see, thanks so much for spending time with me today.
1:12:50
If you'd like to show support for the podcast,
1:12:53
please leave a rating and review. That means the world to me and helps the show get
1:12:58
seen by more makers. So it's a great way to pay it forward and now
1:13:02
be safe and well, and I'll see you next week on the gift biz unwrapped.
1:13:07
Yes. I want to make sure you're familiar with my free
1:13:10
Facebook group called gift is breeze.
1:13:14
It's a place where we all gather and our community to
1:13:18
support each other. Got a really fun post in there.
1:13:21
That's my favorite of the week. I have to say where I invite all of you to
1:13:26
share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,
1:13:29
to show what you're working on for the week to get
1:13:32
reaction from other people and just for fun,
1:13:35
because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody
1:13:39
in the community is making my favorite posts every single week,
1:13:43
without doubt. Wait, what,
1:13:47
aren't you part of the group already, if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search
1:13:53
for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.
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