0:08

Hey, it's Avery, your host of Girlboss Radio,

0:10

and today we're doing something a little different.

0:12

Last week, later media named Girlboss Radio as

0:14

a top influencer marketing podcast. In fact, they

0:17

put us in the number one spot. Inspired

0:19

by this, we decided to go back into

0:21

the archives from the past three seasons and

0:24

surface our favorite bits and takeaways from our

0:26

conversations with influencers and content creators, many of

0:28

which we've never aired before. So if you

0:30

want to make it as an influencer or

0:33

need that not to start posting content, give

0:35

this a listen. Think of this episode as

0:37

a career advice supercut. You'll hear

0:39

from Matilda Jirv, influencer April and

0:42

founder of Jirv Avenue, Vivian Tu,

0:44

a financial expert and the founder

0:46

of Your Rich BFF, Megan

0:49

O'Neill, the associate theater director at Goop,

0:51

Liv Perez, a fashion journalist and the

0:54

founder and host of the Friend of

0:56

a Friend podcast, influencers and my friends,

0:58

Jillian Harris and Sarah Nicole Landry of

1:00

the Birds for Pia. As always, I'm

1:03

joined with Liz, Girlboss's general manager and

1:05

Victoria, Girlboss's senior writer to talk about

1:07

cancel culture, influencing as a career and

1:09

what it means to have a platform. Liz, why

1:12

don't you kick us off where we should start

1:14

this conversation? Let's start with

1:16

let them eat cake, which if you're not on

1:18

TikTok and not familiar is a movement that was

1:20

started by a creator named Hailey Bailey. I believe

1:23

she was at 10 million followers on TikTok at

1:25

the time of posting that. And it was her

1:27

at the Met Gala dressed in a very Marie

1:29

Antoinette inspired look and using the very popular TikTok

1:31

sound, let them eat cake. This obviously set off

1:34

a lot of tone deaf alarm bells with everything

1:36

that's going on in the world. And it inspired

1:38

a mass block movement of celebrities of

1:40

high profile influencers that we're still feeling

1:42

that is still ongoing. And it also

1:44

extended a lot of conversations around both

1:46

the privilege and also the platforms that

1:48

these influencers have and how they're using

1:50

them or not using them as the

1:52

case may be. Yeah, I'm

1:55

really torn on this conversation because I

1:57

look at influencers and creators as these

1:59

very public. The thing figures that are

2:01

representing not only their own businesses but

2:03

the business. In Institutions of other People

2:05

and actually spoke at a conference recently.

2:08

Julian Harris said a conference call academy in

2:10

the city and there is about I think

2:12

three or four hundred people there and I

2:14

speaking to a lot of small business owners

2:16

much didn't have a pretty strong social media

2:18

presence and era this outward facing very public

2:20

leader of a business And I ask them

2:22

all, do any of you know who the

2:25

founder Ceo of Coke Cola as an only

2:27

one hand when up. And I said

2:29

that. this is the critical difference between a

2:31

company like yours and a company like Coca

2:33

Cola. None size, but it's in representation. People

2:36

know who you are, They know who the

2:38

owner, the businesses. Oftentimes they know where you

2:40

went on vacation. Last, you know what your

2:42

political opinions are. or at least they have

2:44

some ideas about what your political opinions and

2:46

affiliations. Are they know? Maybe for your partner? And

2:49

for your kids, look like where they go to

2:51

school, there's a lot more outward facing information about

2:53

you as a person as an individual. The salsa

2:55

dance hide and tethered to your business. I don't

2:57

know where the founder and Ceo of Coca Cola

3:00

spent their last holiday or with their partner looks

3:02

like or what their kids look. Like or where

3:04

they go to school. Maybe. The Coca

3:06

Cola Ceo isn't on Instagram because they're too

3:08

busy being the Ceo of Coca Cola. I

3:10

mean we see so much other day I

3:12

recognize you know grow boss is not an

3:15

influencer but we function monetize almost like an

3:17

inch once a brand repost. grandiose be make

3:19

money off of working with France on advertising.

3:21

We create content as Rj job so there

3:23

is some overlap between. but we do what

3:26

what influencers do But it's not life saving

3:28

stuff and I recognized as a lot more

3:30

behind that. Later on in this conversation Julian

3:32

Harris speaks to how these companies if you're

3:34

a very success. With insolence, we have

3:36

teams. you have project managers you

3:38

have see Ufos. It's really just

3:40

like a regular company with it's

3:42

own office operations. But all of

3:45

that to say, it's hard to

3:47

not notice how cushy. This job is

3:49

right. Well. I remember Mchale I

3:51

j make Up went viral. She said

3:53

she finished her day at five pm

3:55

and she's a try. Being an influencer

3:57

for a day and I actually lost.

4:00

Wow she's talking about how heard her

4:02

job as cause she was working all

4:04

day and to a and so it's

4:06

hard not to feel like they're a

4:08

little bit out of touch with how

4:10

different be average working corporate girly is.

4:12

And another recent thing that happened was

4:14

New York influencer Holly Cheat Just bought

4:16

a house and Hamptons and a Range

4:18

Rover in the same day and I've

4:20

been seen. Tic talks all over saying

4:22

this is your sign to be an

4:24

influencer. This year scientists are posing. you

4:26

can have a house in the Hamptons

4:28

to. With. Isis a thing.

4:31

I think that it's be

4:33

it does your presentation and

4:35

constant updates around do wealth

4:37

that some of these influencers.

4:39

Seem to have was also still trying to

4:41

convince. Us that they're just like

4:43

us. Fifty. Percent of Jerseys

4:45

dream of becoming an influencer as a career

4:47

versus forty one percent among other older age

4:50

groups and becoming influencers the New: becoming an

4:52

actor, becoming a celebrity, becoming a professional athlete

4:54

and you can't blame people in this is

4:57

really on city economy and the super uncertain,

4:59

unpredictable job market. There is something had testicle

5:01

about being an influencer, being your own boss,

5:03

making money, doing some cool things, and who

5:06

hasn't closed her eyes and wish that they

5:08

were wise enough to sort of to talk

5:10

and blocks down and go viral and bacon

5:12

entire career out of it and be. At

5:15

the right place at the right time. So we've

5:17

cut the sig other to bring you the hide.

5:19

One lesson of influencing as a career and we

5:21

hope you little. For.

5:26

Sep we have Matilda Giraffe. We interviewed

5:29

Matilda back and Twenty Twenty Two before

5:31

her massively popular cloning branch of Avenue

5:33

was hit with controversy when similar to

5:35

Toc, readers claim that the company was

5:37

filing copyright strikes against them for promoting

5:40

Do for Your Family's products. this even

5:42

causing other to temporarily lead to talk.

5:44

To name until there appears to have emerged

5:46

on the other side. She's back on Tic

5:48

Toc where she has one point five million

5:51

powers and capitalize on her signature bouncy ways

5:53

to launch haircare. Just her advice, anyone with.

5:55

The dreams my being in charge

5:57

motivates her. How to launch a brand with

5:59

out. business plan. So

6:02

what advice do you have for women and girls

6:04

that have big career aspirations? I know that you said

6:06

that you didn't necessarily dream big, but you did want

6:08

to start your own business one day, you wanted

6:10

to be your own boss. What advice do you have

6:12

for the women that are listening right now? They're like,

6:15

I want that, I feel that, but I'm

6:17

at my customer service job right now and I

6:19

feel super stuck. Well, I think

6:21

the first thing is you have to want

6:23

it a lot, because it is a lot

6:26

of work. People romanticize being your own boss

6:28

and being an entrepreneur and starting a new

6:30

business. There's a lot of long nights, a

6:32

lot of work, and if you're not up

6:34

for it, it's unfortunately not going

6:36

to work. You have to put in the work

6:39

to get it to work. It's really important

6:41

to stay true to yourself and listen to your

6:43

gut, because you will be in rooms where

6:45

people think they know better. You're talking about your

6:47

business idea, what you want to do, and people

6:49

will give you opinions on what they think,

6:51

but you know what you want to do and

6:54

stick to that. I think that's really, really important

6:56

because there will always be people, especially older

6:58

men who will try to say, oh, I know

7:00

better, but they don't. You know your brand, you

7:02

know your vision to the core. So really,

7:04

really hold on to that. What

7:07

keeps you motivated? Being my

7:09

own boss keeps me really motivated. I love

7:11

being my own boss. I love being able

7:13

to build this. I love being in charge.

7:16

I truly love that. I love being able

7:18

to see the team that I built

7:20

and see how amazing they are and see

7:22

everything that we can do for them and

7:24

with them. That really motivates me. Coming into

7:26

the office and just seeing everybody, that just

7:28

gets me going. Also seeing the

7:31

customers, how we reach out to people, all

7:33

of the lovely messages we get, that keeps

7:35

me motivated. It keeps me also wanting to

7:37

do better and be better all the time.

7:40

For me, I always think that what motivates me is

7:42

I don't want it to end. Even though it's hard,

7:44

it does feel like a dream at times. I love

7:46

how you said that you like to be in charge.

7:49

I don't think enough women say that. That's probably

7:51

true. I really don't. As you

7:53

said, I don't think I've heard anyone

7:55

say that. I've talked to a lot

7:57

of women throughout my career. I'm surrounded by women.

7:59

I've never had anyone say it with their full chest, just

8:02

casually saying, I like to be in charge. And that's

8:04

what keeps me motivated. I

8:06

think that that's fucking badass. Yeah, well,

8:08

when you put it like that. I love it.

8:10

I love it. I need to put that on a

8:12

mug or on a t-shirt or something like that. But like, yeah, I like being

8:14

in charge. I don't think that

8:16

enough women say that. So I think that if that's

8:19

a motivation for anyone listening right now, lean into

8:21

it. When did you first realize you were

8:23

successful? I mean, I don't think I never had like

8:25

a big like, oof, ooh,

8:28

I'm successful. I think it's in the small moment. Yeah,

8:30

I think it's like in the small moment. That's interesting.

8:33

I feel like, wait, the concepts of success

8:35

always feels like a rollercoaster. There's moments for me

8:37

where I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the

8:39

thing. I'm successful. This is happening. And

8:42

then I'll have like entrepreneurship being your own boss. It

8:44

comes with a lot of ups and downs. They'll do

8:46

something wrong or you'll say the wrong thing or you'll

8:48

make a mistake or you'll make a decision that maybe

8:51

you should have made sooner or later. And you're like,

8:53

oh, yeah, not as successful as I thought. I was

8:55

entrepreneurs with a humbling experience. I think

8:57

it is. And I think that's part of success. I think success

8:59

is also failing and making mistakes, dealing with that.

9:04

That's just such a huge part of it. Thank

9:06

you for that reminder. I needed that. It's

9:09

true. It's so

9:11

true. And we're just humans. I wanted to ask your

9:14

industry is highly competitive. There's a lot of folks

9:16

that might be listening that

9:18

have aspirations to solve the problem. There's

9:21

a lot of folks that might be

9:23

listening that have aspirations to start their

9:25

own labor one day or be a

9:27

mega creator influencer one day, but feel

9:29

like there's not enough space. What advice

9:31

do you have for them? If

9:34

you're really passionate about what you do and you

9:36

really believe in your vision, who cares if there's

9:38

not enough space? There's always space for everybody as

9:40

long as you do it with passion. And you

9:42

can tell that you're doing it with passion. If

9:44

you have a really strong vision and you don't

9:46

even need to have a really strong vision. But

9:48

if you know what you want to do and

9:50

why you want to do it, do

9:52

it. Don't care about that the space

9:55

is crowded. It's so cliche, but I

9:57

really genuinely do think life is too

9:59

short. I think that we need

10:01

to try to do what makes us happy

10:03

and what we're passionate about because life

10:06

needs to feel good at the end of the

10:08

day. And it's such a cliche answer and that's

10:10

not a good answer. But I wish there was

10:12

a secret recipe to like how to start your

10:14

business or how to take more space. It

10:17

makes me reflect on a quote that I

10:19

know I'm probably misquoting, but it's the difference

10:21

between people that are quote unquote successful. Here

10:24

I am feeling uncomfortable saying success. Funny.

10:26

So the difference between someone that's successful and

10:28

someone that is not is action.

10:31

Just doing it. One thing I read an

10:34

article that was posted about you recently where they

10:36

kind of noted that you built a million dollar

10:38

plus business without a business plan. And

10:40

I feel like I've also done the same. Why

10:43

not? There's a lot of women out there,

10:45

a lot of people out there that have

10:47

built multi million dollar businesses without a business

10:49

plan. And I think that people overthink sometimes

10:52

what they need to do to move

10:54

forward. Exactly. I think so as well.

10:56

So what do you think was the recipe in lieu

10:58

of a business plan? What moved you forward?

11:01

I do like a lot of work to be

11:03

able to finance your revenue. I took every single

11:05

modeling job I could. I've always saved a

11:07

lot of money ever since I started working when I was 15.

11:10

Because I've always known that you know, I want to get

11:12

away from this small town and that will need money to

11:14

be able to do that. A lot of hard work to

11:16

save money to be able to finance it. A lot of

11:19

hard work to get it off the ground. Shipping

11:21

out the orders, making sure the website

11:23

is working, getting photos of everything. Our

11:26

service, we were doing literally everything.

11:29

Us really wanting it so badly is why we

11:31

were able to do it. You

11:33

really need to want that you can't just say, Oh,

11:35

I want to be an entrepreneur, but then not put

11:37

in the work. It requires so much

11:39

work. It really does. Whenever I

11:41

read articles, or when I did a few years

11:44

ago, they never told you how much work it

11:46

is. They never told you how many sleepless nights

11:48

you'll have. They never told you how insane

11:51

it is. They just talked about the beautiful

11:53

aspect of being your own boss and that

11:55

it's fun. But it's so much hard work.

11:57

It's so much work, but it's worth it. Next

12:04

up, we have Vivian Tu, who worked on Wall

12:06

Street as a trader with JP Morgan and BuzzFeed

12:08

as a strategy sales partner making a $600,000 salary.

12:12

She's also creating financial literacy content on the

12:14

side, and she left her dog to become

12:16

a full-time influencer and was able to outmatch

12:18

her corporate earnings via her platform, Your Wish

12:21

BFF, via partnerships, brand deals, and her own

12:23

podcast. And it was all because she was

12:25

willing to climb cringe mountain. I'm

12:28

curious, before you launched your

12:30

Wish BFF platform, did you

12:32

have any reservations before you

12:35

took it upon yourself to

12:37

start providing cost-free financial literacy

12:39

on TikTok? I

12:41

did have reservations, not so much

12:43

from the information perspective, but a

12:46

personal hesitation. I am what I

12:48

like to describe as, I used to be a lurker.

12:51

So I would learn, and I would watch other people's

12:53

content, but I wouldn't create content myself. I

12:55

think someone on TikTok actually did

12:57

a really great explanation that before

13:00

you get to a point that

13:02

is cool and people are envious

13:04

and you get applauded for your

13:06

efforts, you have to climb something

13:08

called cringe mountain. As you're climbing

13:10

cringe mountain, it's horrible because people at

13:12

the bottom of the mountain are looking at you

13:14

and pointing and being like, oh, that's so embarrassing.

13:17

But now I've hit the peak

13:19

of cringe mountain. My face, my mugshot is

13:22

thousands of times over on the internet. But

13:25

now I'm on the decline and I'm

13:27

coming off of that peak and I'm getting to

13:29

the valley that has the oasis and the palm

13:31

trees, whatever may be at the end, the pot

13:34

of gold at the end of the rainbow. People

13:36

think about that and they're like, wow, that's incredible.

13:38

That's so impressive. That's not what you

13:40

were saying about me a year ago. You

13:42

very literally said this was embarrassing. And

13:45

I think we all have to really

13:47

push through that period of discomfort if

13:49

we want to really achieve anything. A

13:52

hundred percent period, I've gone through

13:54

the cringy climb a hundred percent. I

13:56

feel like I'm still on it, to be honest.

13:58

I haven't hit the peak. Well, maybe I

14:01

have, but I know what you mean. I was

14:03

talking about social justice and race and everything,

14:05

so it was like a contentious cringy climb

14:07

as well. And I mean, you're in the

14:09

same boat talking about financial literacy and money.

14:11

It's such a taboo topic for a lot

14:13

of folks, unfortunately. But fast forward

14:16

a few years later, you're referring to you're

14:18

in the valley. Your rich BFF has blossomed

14:20

into an amazing community of over 3 million

14:22

besties all over the world. I

14:25

will say, while my journey

14:27

certainly hasn't been easy, I would not

14:29

be where I am today without

14:32

my own mentors. And

14:34

I feel so lucky because my

14:37

very first manager and my mentor

14:39

on Wall Street, when I showed up

14:41

day one, she took me under her wing. She

14:44

was the only other Asian woman. And she said,

14:46

I'm going to teach you all the stuff I

14:48

did not know when I was a

14:51

clueless 22-year-old, just breaking

14:53

free from the nest. And

14:55

she's the reason why I started putting money into my 401k. I

14:58

love that. I wanted to ask you,

15:00

like, what actually made you decide to

15:02

go all in on your rich BFF?

15:05

Because you had a mega six-figure salary in

15:07

your last job, and you left it all

15:09

behind, I believe, for like the greater good.

15:12

But that must have been a big leap.

15:15

Don't give me too much credit when

15:17

you say greater good. This was a

15:19

completely analytical, logical decision. So I started

15:21

building your rich BFF while I was

15:23

working full-time. I did that for a

15:25

year and three months. I was

15:27

really, really fortunate. And I had worked very hard

15:29

to get where I was in my career. And

15:32

I was making over $600,000 working

15:35

in digital media strategy sales at BuzzFeed.

15:37

I was in sales. So a big part of

15:39

that was commission. And I had been selling some

15:42

really big deals. I was definitely one of their

15:44

top salespeople at the time. And

15:46

it was really scary to walk away from that. Because

15:49

it would have been so much easier if I

15:51

hated my boss and didn't like my team and

15:53

was not fulfilled at work. But I love my

15:55

boss. I love that guy. I love my team.

15:57

And they were my friends. I

16:00

would like text on the side be like,

16:02

yo, you know, like hang out on Saturday. Truly.

16:04

I was so lucky in that perfect, amazing

16:06

seat for me, but it got to the

16:08

point where I was working full time during

16:10

the week and then I would ideate all

16:12

my content on Saturday and film all my

16:14

content on Sunday and just like change my

16:17

shirt, been there. And

16:19

I got to a point where I was like, I

16:21

hate working at BuzzFeed.

16:25

I hate making content for your rich BFF.

16:28

And I sat down with my fiancee. My boyfriend at

16:30

the time, I now fiance, I told him this and

16:32

he was like, you didn't take your job before

16:34

you started making your rich BFF content on

16:36

the side. You actually really liked your job.

16:39

And when you first started making your rich BFF and

16:41

there wasn't this expectation to keep putting out more content,

16:43

you really liked it then too. Do

16:45

you think it's not that you don't like either

16:47

of these things. It's maybe you don't like doing

16:49

them at the same time and not taking a

16:51

break for a year and three months. And I'm

16:53

like, did he just become my therapist? And

16:56

he was right. It wasn't something that I

16:58

was going to be able to keep doing

17:00

parallel path without burning myself out. So I

17:02

ended up doing some analysis of what I

17:05

was going to be able to make at

17:08

your rich BFF. And at

17:10

that point I was like, okay, this is going

17:13

to be able to cover my expenses. And maybe

17:15

I won't make as much as I did in

17:17

my full-time job, but I'll make a good living

17:19

doing this. I don't want to be 50 and

17:22

look back on this moment and wonder what

17:24

if, let's try it worst case. I flame

17:26

out in a year and I was a

17:28

great employee. My boss really liked me. I

17:30

could always beg for my job back. And

17:33

so I kind of made the decision. I was like, I

17:35

have nothing to lose. I got to do this. Wow.

17:37

Okay. So shout out to your fiancee. Number

17:39

one, what he said to you, just creative

17:42

ripple effects for me as well. Cause I

17:44

think that there's probably a lot of people

17:46

listening that are in that same state where

17:48

they are balancing their full-time job, but

17:50

they have this up and coming channel

17:52

or Instagram account or a tech talk

17:55

that is just buzzing and doing

17:57

both is causing them to feel

18:00

so much. stress that they're hating

18:02

both of these great avenues that

18:04

they used to love in different ways.

18:06

What has been the most surprising endeavor

18:08

that you've taken on with this business?

18:11

You know, I think probably

18:13

my podcast because I used

18:15

to make fun of people

18:17

who have podcasts. No,

18:20

I really like I feel bad now, especially doing

18:22

it myself. Because I'm like, Oh, wow, everybody needs

18:24

a microphone these days. Ha ha. But when my

18:27

audience actually came to me to say like, Hey,

18:29

do you have any recommendations on

18:31

podcasts about saving budgeting investing? And I

18:34

was like, Yeah, let me go like

18:36

look some up. And all

18:38

of them were hosted by men. In

18:41

particular, many of them were hosted

18:43

by old rich white men. And

18:46

that's not what my audience looks like. So

18:49

why would I think that this person would

18:51

be able to identify with so many

18:53

of the young people, so many

18:56

of the girl bosses who are

18:58

BFS, they can't. So I was like,

19:00

Oh, this is annoying. I'll have to start my own

19:03

podcast. And now I'm the butt of my own joke,

19:05

because I used to make fun of

19:07

podcasters. But now I'm one. And I

19:09

truly didn't expect it to be quite

19:12

the undertaking. It requires a lot of

19:14

research and definitely props to you props to

19:16

a lot of people who are now talking

19:18

and being listened to and heard because I

19:21

didn't think it was going to be so

19:23

challenging. Yeah. And you know

19:25

what it is, the research part is

19:27

challenging. But I think that these conversations

19:29

are so important. And what you're doing

19:31

with your podcast is you're creating more dialogue

19:33

around all this information that you're sharing with people

19:36

that's cost free, right? And it's so valuable. And

19:38

you'd said something earlier when we were talking and

19:40

you're like, Okay, well, don't give me too much

19:42

of the benefit of the doubt. Because I said

19:44

that you pursued this for the greater good. And

19:46

whether it was intentional or not, creating

19:48

people skills in a capitalist system

19:51

that helps them to become more

19:53

financially literate to me is very

19:55

aligned with social justice work. Listen,

19:58

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong

20:01

with picking up a side hustle. Literally, this

20:03

whole thing started as a side hustle for

20:05

me. I know if people

20:08

are really, really feeling crunched for time, that

20:10

can feel kind of overwhelming, but I actually

20:12

recommend it as something to do that's very

20:14

different than what you do for your day

20:17

job. So perhaps if you do something that's

20:19

very desk oriented, maybe on the side in

20:21

the evenings, you can tap it. You don't

20:23

have to look at a screen to do

20:25

that. It helps you supplement your income, knowing

20:28

that if you do work in the

20:30

government nonprofit space, like you probably have pretty decent

20:32

benefits. And those are all of your needs that

20:34

are going to really be covered. But just to

20:36

create some stuff, a little cash for yourself. This

20:38

is an easy way to do that. Raise

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22:32

Friends and is making space for Black

22:34

women's voices in wellness. In. This clip

22:37

Meghan talks about letting go of her dream

22:39

job and the importance of switching jobs when

22:41

you get a little too comfortable. Plus.

22:43

She answers a question from one of

22:45

our listeners yes you about finding you're

22:47

fearless and empowered self. Let's. Get back

22:49

into it. Have

22:54

you ever found yourself in a situation prior

22:56

to where you start? You're moving into your

22:58

dream job. but it didn't turn out to

23:01

be so. Yeah definitely.

23:04

L was an amazing amazing

23:06

experience. But. I bring up L

23:08

because it was my dream place I

23:10

loved reading at before I worked bearer

23:12

the articles were also voiced the and

23:14

smart. That was sort of this investigative

23:17

journalism vibe and it spreads were beautiful.

23:19

I think I gotta work at L

23:21

one day and then I did and

23:23

it was. So hard at.

23:26

The way the investigative journalism

23:28

by was just. There was

23:31

such a steep learning curve for me, it kind

23:33

of broke me at first. He just

23:35

in the sense of how around the articles

23:37

had to be and house scientific they had

23:39

to be and tonight we train my brain

23:42

any new thing I can he do skill

23:44

it was a hard one to digest. By.

23:46

It. And. So grateful because it

23:49

taught me a different way of

23:51

writing. It taught me how to

23:53

remain myself in a different environment.

23:55

To declare wasn't a bad experience

23:58

with a wonderful experience. I. Labs

24:00

The people I worked. With. It was

24:02

just a new place and you. Have to

24:04

adapt to new players. That's not always

24:06

easy. I. Still like this is

24:08

so true for jobs as well and for

24:11

work. And ah said so knowing that you

24:13

moved in that situation with L and he

24:15

thought it was in be your dream job

24:17

but it wasn't. How did you navigate transitioning

24:20

out of L and letting go of that

24:22

dream. Though it was very

24:24

hard for me to adapt to being

24:26

an hour but then I dead being

24:28

somewhere for a while. You figure it

24:31

out you how new skills you get

24:33

into your bias against l was amazing.

24:35

I loved my boss their. Employees our

24:37

the I loved the energy that was Robbie

24:39

My or to the time. You don't

24:41

wanna leave. Some were defeated so I

24:43

was sort of determined to figure out

24:45

how to waves there comfortably. So challenge

24:47

but not scared of writing and stare

24:50

at of doing my job and ceremony

24:52

do it wrong. I'd say it took

24:54

like. A. Year to feel like

24:56

myself in that job and I'm really

24:58

happy I stuck him out because. Then

25:01

I did get into my wow and things

25:03

got bad. but I also think it's important

25:05

to bounce around once you feel like you've

25:07

gotten a place and under said at and

25:10

it just felt like it was time to.

25:12

Do. The next thing and group was

25:14

totally different and intriguing. For that

25:17

reason. Amazing. Be you do have to go

25:19

to these places and take a chance. And. Gets destroyed

25:21

and hit rock bottom. Yeah,

25:24

I mean they're great teachers. Finding

25:26

yourself in a job that may be isn't

25:28

necessarily for you, we just thought it would

25:31

be the perfect thing for you is a

25:33

really amazing opportunity for you to reflect and

25:35

pause and redirect. I think that that's a

25:37

really cool lesson for you have learned and

25:39

I mean ultimately had you not going to

25:41

L L could still be in the back

25:43

of your mind as the stream place to

25:45

work for you To that chance you experience

25:47

said and it led you to do. Definitely.

25:51

I wanted to share a question that

25:53

we have in asked a girl boss

25:55

question and the ask a girl boss

25:57

question today was s i've been stuck.

26:00

months. In CapLox, how do

26:02

I get back to my fearless and

26:05

empowered self and there was

26:07

a sad shamed emoji at the

26:09

end of it? What advice do you have for

26:11

this person that shared this question with you? Well,

26:14

I'm sorry you're hurting. That is a tough

26:16

spot to be in. I think we've all been

26:19

in that spot. Sometimes it's hard to claw your

26:21

way out, but you definitely can. I think

26:24

part of growing up and living life

26:26

is figuring out how to make yourself

26:29

happy and feel joy. We

26:31

often think that how

26:34

to be happy is like something we

26:36

have to buy or it's like something

26:38

not accessible, it's something outside. The world

26:40

is sort of set up to make

26:42

us think that, but it's not true.

26:44

You have to figure out what you

26:46

need to do during the day to be

26:48

happy. Maybe that's like going

26:51

for a run. Maybe it's making

26:53

sure you have time to cook. Maybe

26:55

it's masturbating. It

26:58

can be anything, but you just have

27:00

to check what it is for you and

27:03

you can make sure to do it so that your

27:05

life feels like your life. Absolutely.

27:07

I totally agree with what you shared. What

27:09

I would add to that too is if

27:11

you're wanting to get back to your fearless

27:13

and empowered self, start small.

27:16

Do one tiny little thing that scares

27:18

you today and then build up on

27:20

that over time. If you're

27:23

really scared to go out and have

27:25

dinner by yourself, do it. If

27:27

you're scared to have a tough conversation with

27:29

someone in your life about something that's been

27:32

impacting you, do it. Once

27:34

you get over those tiny little bumps

27:36

and you move against those fears and

27:38

you get through them and move through

27:40

them, that's when you're going to start

27:42

feeling more empowered. It's not about taking

27:44

risks as much as it's about facing

27:46

these things that you're scared to do.

27:48

This feeling of fear is something that we

27:50

oftentimes construct on our own. Sometimes

27:52

The fear isn't even necessarily valid. We're just

27:55

afraid because we haven't done it or tried

27:57

it yet. Or we haven't gone for it.

28:00

When you actually feel the fear and do it anyway

28:02

which is a really great but and you moved your it

28:04

that and you're going to start feeling more powers to

28:06

Billie. Oh man, that wasn't actually as scary as

28:08

I thought. And I did it and I missed

28:10

your it and now I'm feeling. More.

28:13

Empowered and myself in in my behaviors and

28:15

also probably more confident some of the decisions

28:17

that you're making. That as says

28:19

get advice. That is how you got confidence

28:21

are by doing something that scares even then you've done

28:23

at near light. I can do. At your on top

28:26

of the world. Next.

28:31

Some highlights from a Chat with Olivia Press,

28:33

a True Fashioned Girl Who internet Glossier or

28:36

Mass and Teen Vogue all before graduating from

28:38

college. Today is a hit podcast called friend

28:40

of a Friend. Avery was actually guest on it

28:42

so go check it out and a Hyper against

28:44

community. Every and Olivia talks about Shadow Banning and

28:46

why you don't need to live in a major

28:48

city to make it as a creator. What

28:51

do you think? you've done differently than

28:54

other. Creators to build such an

28:56

engaged community. I think for

28:58

me, it's always been about their research. To.

29:00

Whatever that as whether it's person inspiration,

29:02

just being a really joyful presence on

29:04

mine or even obviously with the podcast

29:06

being able to share about as gems

29:08

of my audience that I'm learning. A

29:10

big reason why start of the podcast

29:13

is because. I. Had been. Meeting

29:15

so many incredible creative people during my time in

29:17

New York and I I'd be remiss if

29:19

I didn't say that I wasn't in a position

29:21

where I had been in front of so

29:23

many companies that people were falling in love with

29:26

that that time I was working with brands

29:28

like Away and Glossy and all these brands that

29:30

were at the forefront of culture and I want

29:32

to share their experiences back. And so I think

29:34

with friend of a friend it was so much

29:37

about sharing that quote on quote inner circle

29:39

of people that I was meeting and providing that

29:41

access in those resources. The I would learning

29:43

on a day to day basis from. Them

29:45

to my community and to the greater ether

29:47

Beyond not so with my community. I think

29:49

my bottom line as though is how can

29:51

I be of service today? How can I

29:54

help someone? may be. just like

29:56

their best selves today and feel really good

29:58

about presenting themselves to their friends co-workers

30:00

but also show up for themselves in that

30:02

way? How can I provide a gem that I'm

30:04

learning in my everyday life? Or how can I

30:06

maybe show someone a new part of a city

30:08

that I'm exploring? For me, it's always about being

30:10

a place where people can come and learn something

30:12

new about themselves and about the world that they're

30:14

in. That's so interesting. So

30:17

I have experienced a decline in

30:19

followers recently. I think I've been

30:21

shadow banned because I talk a

30:23

lot about quite polarizing topics around

30:25

like race and social justice and

30:28

oppression and power and privilege. And as

30:30

such, of course, those concepts are going to

30:32

be like, in some cases, it's just exhausting

30:34

to be on the receiving end of that

30:36

type of information. But what you just said

30:38

made me reflect on it. And it's like,

30:40

I'm actually not sharing that really helpful content

30:42

that I think those curious folks that came

30:44

to me initially wanted to learn about. And

30:46

I've been shying away from it and not

30:48

really diving in as much because I do

30:50

it every day at work with Bloom. I

30:52

always learn something when I have these conversations

30:54

with people, but it's definitely something that I'm

30:56

going to probably sit with and reflect on

30:58

because I do think that those are the best communities

31:00

where you are learning. Yeah, I also

31:02

just want to share when we start these

31:04

platforms. Yes, you start them to build community

31:06

and share, but the main reason you start

31:08

them is for you because you have something

31:10

to share. And I think over the past

31:13

three, four years where we've had these

31:15

issues with the algorithm and shadow banning,

31:17

it's really taken away a really large

31:19

sense of freedom that we have as

31:22

creators, as voices, as thought leaders

31:25

to share what we're passionate about.

31:27

And whether you're talking about something

31:30

in politics, beauty, fashion, whatever

31:32

it is, there's an

31:34

audience for it. And I don't care if

31:36

10 people like my photo or 100,000 people

31:39

like my photo. I think that there needs

31:42

to be a return of a healthy balance

31:44

of sharing what we love and of course,

31:46

catering to our community. But I think the

31:48

second that you start to veer away from

31:50

posting what feels important to you and why

31:53

you started this in the first place is

31:55

when you're letting the Instagram algorithm, science, all

31:57

that stuff win. So for me, it's very

31:59

important. Really about making sure that every day

32:01

wake up and they do. I want to post

32:04

this for me and do I care if it

32:06

does well or not or do I care of

32:08

any one person resonates with it or a whole

32:10

bunch. That secondary to why I'm posting what I

32:12

share, I'm posting it for me. Absolutely

32:14

lead craters that I love the most as

32:17

you're sharing their some kind of reflecting on

32:19

people that I feel haven't deviated away from

32:21

what they've done and how they feel it.

32:23

He can best show up. Alex L. is

32:26

a really great example of someone that hasn't

32:28

tapped into. Doing tic toc sir. Reels. Or

32:30

anything she says Steadfast focus on the

32:32

way to. She's always shared Clinton and

32:35

I'm still super. Engage with her Clinton

32:37

regardless of how the algorithm a savoring

32:39

certain ways of delivering what you. Want

32:41

to share and what you wanna say? This is

32:43

something I definitely needed a little reminder of. so

32:46

thank. You for sharing that with me and obviously

32:48

with everyone listening. And right now it's really important

32:50

for us to say to. ourselves. And not

32:52

to get too caught up in essentially I guess

32:54

the outcome of what we decide to share of

32:56

course and by it was a helpful reminder after

32:58

my myself of it's You All The Time. I.

33:01

Did a deep dive over the last week

33:03

or so in preparation for this conversation. But

33:05

I specifically loved it episode that you did

33:07

with T again he sees this founder of

33:09

Have Fake Harvests, a friend of yours as

33:11

well and you have had a conversation about

33:13

whether you have to live in a major

33:15

city to be successful or not and for

33:18

cyclists in the conversation so I'm aware of

33:20

your thoughts them were of Keegan thoughts and

33:22

where she said did I was on the

33:24

decisions she's made. I wanted to understand what

33:26

your thoughts are like. Free to share it with the

33:28

audience. What are your thoughts on? The

33:30

impact of your location and weather has any

33:33

impact on your success. So.

33:35

Far as I just wanna say cheat and as

33:37

maybe one of my favorite people to follow online

33:39

she is someone who. Found. A nice

33:41

and leaned in sell have L A C

33:43

release as a new recipe every single day.

33:45

She's a best selling cookbook author and is

33:47

someone that I don't know a single person

33:50

in my world. At least that when I

33:52

say have Picked Harvest they're not like oh

33:54

my God I love her recipes. She's is

33:56

created such an incredible basis for herself and

33:58

I really love having that. They can

34:00

with her because you know she lives I

34:02

believe an hour outside of Denver. I can

34:04

only speak from my experience. I've only ever

34:06

lived in New York an ally and I

34:09

can say that living in those places has

34:11

been invaluable for me and making connections networking,

34:13

being able to work at some of my

34:15

dream job you can only do a lot

34:17

of those things from those places. But.

34:20

If. You're someone like a T again, or

34:22

your content creator. Or you are a founder

34:24

the most. Successful. Facet of

34:26

all the things in my opinion. Is

34:29

solving a problem in your life? Whether.

34:31

You're founding a company that has to do with something

34:34

that you deal with in your everyday life, cheating the

34:36

solving the problem of okay I love to cook. I

34:38

want to share my recipes of people and I don't

34:40

need to be a New York or L A to

34:43

do that. I really think that if you can find

34:45

your knees and lean and and share your life I

34:47

mean look at the end of the day the majority

34:49

of the country does not live in these major cities.

34:51

Bear is so much. More.

34:54

That people can relate on. I don't want

34:56

people to ever feel like they need tito.

34:58

I need to move to New York to

35:00

become Relevance. I need to move to L

35:02

A Said build this company again. The most

35:04

successful companies to me are the ones that

35:06

are built on your own experience or own

35:08

life, working on what you know and sharing

35:10

that with the world. And Chicken is such

35:12

a beautiful example that she felt close to

35:14

six million followers her website as one of

35:16

the most popular website for recipes. So I

35:19

think if you are someone that doesn't live

35:21

in a major city and you're looking for

35:23

some inspiration. Follow T again, looks or

35:25

her for example, because it is possible

35:27

and I actually think that sometimes. It's.

35:29

Better. Yeah. I totally

35:31

agree. I mean I was just telling

35:33

about this woman who is one of my favorite

35:36

people to follow on. Tic toc. She lives on

35:38

solve our island which is really close to the

35:40

North Pole and I think she has close to

35:42

a million followers on six dogs and she just

35:45

shares her life. They're obviously thing stridently interesting. Not

35:47

many people live next to the North Pole but

35:49

she does such an incredible job of sharing all

35:51

the little facets of what it's like to live

35:53

there and I am Hooks I don't like. Check

35:56

on her daily because I'm so curious about her

35:58

life. Said again, share with you. Go!

36:00

Share your life. I love

36:02

that. I love that. Finally,

36:08

we're going to close out this episode with

36:10

two of Avery's closest friends, mega influencers, Jillian

36:13

Harris and Sarah Nicole Landry of the Birds

36:15

of Apiah. The pair unpack what it's

36:17

like not to be taken seriously for what you

36:19

do as an influencer and how they deal with

36:21

having to pour their entire lives into their brands

36:23

and whether it's worth it. What's

36:26

interesting is that for me,

36:28

Jillian, you were like the

36:30

OG reality star to influencer

36:32

that vein, right? What's interesting

36:34

is that you've now gone on to

36:37

build a massive business that's an influencer

36:39

led business. It's one of the first

36:41

of its kind. And what I really

36:43

want to explore in our conversation today

36:45

is what it's like to lead and

36:47

run and scale an influencer led business.

36:50

Well, it's so funny because I don't think it's

36:52

anything like what people think it is. I really

36:54

think people think that you like wake up and

36:56

you're like, I'm going to take pictures of myself

36:58

today and then I'm going to monetize that. And

37:00

that's basically the extent of it. But ultimately we

37:02

have the same employees that any business would

37:04

have. We have a CEO, we have a

37:06

CFO, we have project managers, we have EAs,

37:08

we have HR staff. It is really truly

37:10

a business. And so we are essentially a

37:12

marketing platform for lack of a better word.

37:14

And I try to go back to explaining

37:16

it as if it were like a magazine,

37:18

right? So if you buy like say, Elle

37:20

magazine or house and home or whatever, people

37:23

buy it because they want to learn about

37:25

the pretty things, right? But the way those

37:27

magazines make money is ultimately through ads. And

37:29

so you flip over and sometimes you see

37:31

an ad that you like and sometimes you

37:33

keep on going, but you're there to learn

37:35

and to capture all that content. And so

37:37

essentially my business is the same. I am

37:39

constantly trying to juggle, how can I give

37:41

this community the best possible content I can

37:43

whether that's my own personal life, funny stories,

37:46

me crying, recipes, decor. I'm always trying to

37:48

figure out like what it is they're looking

37:50

for, but I still do it for a

37:52

business. And now I have a full team

37:54

that I have to support. On top of

37:57

that, the overheads are things like we have

37:59

an office. We have insurance, there's the website

38:01

fees. I think our website fees are like thousands

38:03

of dollars every month. It's out of control. And

38:06

so you're really trying to balance the business like

38:08

a business. But I think

38:10

for me, the hardest part is I'm

38:12

constantly telling my team. So

38:14

I was always an entrepreneurial person. I

38:16

always loved the idea of running a

38:18

business. I also have the gift of

38:20

the gab. I like to talk to

38:22

people. I want that community. So somehow,

38:24

I grew this business using both of

38:26

those skill sets, right? I want to

38:28

create community and also loving entrepreneurship. But

38:31

I really struggle because there are some days where

38:33

I'm like, get me out of these meetings. I

38:36

don't want to do any of the operational stuff anymore.

38:39

I and I always think I need to be

38:41

on my phone with this

38:43

community, engaging with them, commenting

38:45

back, having conversations, telling them

38:47

stories. That is where I am most best

38:49

used. Get me out of the rest of

38:51

the stuff. But then when they do that,

38:53

I'm like, wait a second. I know how

38:55

to run a business. Get me into this

38:57

conversation and I will help you guys solve

38:59

this problem. So I think the hardest part

39:01

is just like, where is my time best

39:03

used? I think the biggest struggle is

39:05

people don't take it seriously. So you don't

39:07

really have a lot of people to

39:09

talk to. It is a very privileged job.

39:12

And it's also one that has a massive

39:14

peak and you don't know how long

39:16

that peak is going to last. So you're

39:18

building a legacy and you're building lifelong, hopefully,

39:21

income to sustain what most people would have

39:23

in a more steady career because it

39:25

sort of goes straight up and you're just

39:27

like, okay, how can I create

39:29

jobs? How can I sustain this? How

39:31

can I build a legacy brand from this

39:33

moment in time? Because for some people, it

39:36

truly is only a moment. That's

39:38

sort of where I'm at right now

39:40

is just trying to figure that out.

39:42

And I will be honest, I think

39:44

that the mental health side of it,

39:46

because we work such a privileged job,

39:48

nobody really, not nobody, but most people,

39:51

Avery, you and I actually just talked about this the

39:53

other day where everyone thinks they know everything

39:55

that's going on with you. So they stopped

39:57

checking in, they watch your stories. must

40:00

be okay. And when I went through prenatal

40:02

depression, I realized I didn't want to share

40:04

about it anymore. It was too hard to

40:06

talk about. And everyone stopped checking in with

40:08

me because they assumed I was okay. And

40:10

as time's gone on, I've had to be

40:12

very vocal. I just got diagnosed with PMDD,

40:14

which makes a whole lot of sense. I

40:17

have these really dark, deep thoughts, and I

40:19

almost always quit my job. And that just doesn't

40:21

impact me. That impacts everybody. That impacts

40:23

my family. That impacts my employees. It

40:25

impacts our whole business and it impacts

40:27

the community that's relying on me because

40:29

of three days a month. I just

40:31

feel like I'm not worthy of anything.

40:34

There's a lot of guilt and a lot

40:36

of feeling of the other shoe is going to

40:38

drop. Everybody's going to hate me. And I don't

40:40

want to go through that in public. I would

40:42

rather just quit and go back

40:44

to serving. And one

40:46

thing I just want to reflect on is I

40:48

know that both of you in this conversation have

40:51

said on numerous occasions, we are so privileged to

40:53

do the job that we do. I think that

40:55

anyone that is employed is privileged. There's

40:57

a lot of people that don't

40:59

have access to jobs, the types

41:01

of careers that a lot of

41:03

people in the West have access to.

41:06

I think that a lot of people

41:08

have assumptions around the glam around being

41:10

an influencer or a creator. And

41:12

I know that it's a very privileged spot to

41:14

be in, but I think that oftentimes I observe

41:17

influencers and creators almost like speaking to the privileged

41:19

because I mean, you're supported by your community, right?

41:22

Which is why they always use the quotations, we don't

41:24

have a real job. I'm 15 years

41:26

into it monetizing for

41:28

five of them and literally

41:30

have employees supporting multiple other families. And it's not

41:33

a real job in quotation. I get it. I

41:35

get it from the perception standpoint, but there's just

41:37

a very different reality. And I think it's important

41:39

to talk about the reality, not just so people

41:41

pat us on the back and go, you're right,

41:43

it is a real job. But just because so

41:46

many people look up to it and they're like,

41:48

I would love to do that. And it's

41:50

really being able to recognize that

41:52

you're monetizing and creating a media

41:54

company off of who you are.

41:56

And the line is so gray

41:58

between person and brand. And

42:00

you will be impacted. You will

42:03

be impacted emotionally, physically, mentally. And

42:05

it takes a lot. It's

42:07

not the same type of real job. And I'm

42:09

not saying it's like the hardest. I would never

42:11

claim that at all. But it

42:14

is something that is deeply been minimized

42:16

because it is led by majority

42:18

women. But you're just telling your

42:20

story. For anybody that's doing it,

42:23

believe in yourself. It is a real

42:25

frickin' job. And do not worry about

42:27

what other people are going to think

42:29

of you. Because not only can you

42:31

support your family, if you work hard

42:33

at it, you could support other people's

42:35

family, give back to your community, either

42:37

by just social work, donations. We've just

42:39

grown so much. And we're

42:41

creating full-on corporations, multi-million dollar

42:43

corporations that rely on us

42:46

sharing about our vaginas,

42:48

our stretch marks, our babies, our clothing,

42:50

our recipes. It is totally wild. And

42:52

so oftentimes when I want to escape,

42:54

I think what can escape? The business

42:56

is me. How do I escape

42:59

from that? One last thing. Someone that's

43:01

very close to me that is an influencer. And

43:03

she doesn't want to grow. She does not want to

43:05

grow because she's like, it's too much for me. It's

43:07

too stressful. I don't need all those

43:09

things. And I'm happy where I am at

43:11

this pace. And yes, if I hired

43:13

somebody, could I make more money? But I don't know

43:15

if I want that. I think that's really good advice.

43:18

Sometimes when you put profit over people, a lot of

43:20

leaders forget that that also includes you. Tune

43:26

in to another episode with a very special guest.

43:28

And until then, don't forget to rate this episode

43:30

and leave a comment or send me a DM

43:33

at a regret to let me know what you thought.

43:35

I love letting you chat with you all in the

43:37

DM. As always, this podcast is

43:39

produced by Luke Cooper and Victoria Christie

43:41

and edited by Jay Woodomny. Until next

43:43

time, keep blooming.