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porn.

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Welcome to Girls on Porn. I'm Laura.

0:30

I'm Rachel. And we love

0:32

porn. This is our porn review podcast.

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We talk about what we love and roast what we hate.

0:37

Helping you find hot, ethical, just

0:40

plain better porn for your spank bank. And

0:42

we're looking at everything.

0:46

It's an exciting episode.

0:48

It is. It

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is. It's been a while since we've had a guest,

0:53

so it's really, really fun to be able to bring on

0:55

an actual porn performer. We're

0:58

so stoked to have Nat Portnoy

1:00

on with us. If you guys don't

1:02

know, Nat Portnoy is an actress, artist, and filmmaker

1:05

who has been active in the European adult scene for 11

1:07

years, mostly under the umbrella of alternative

1:10

porn. In recent years, she has been exploring

1:12

the connections of sensuality, religion, shame, and

1:14

freedom. Nat, thank you so much for coming

1:16

on the show. And

1:18

what great topics to kick off

1:20

with. Freedom, shame,

1:23

porn, all of these things. Favourites.

1:27

I think it's closer to porn

1:29

than people actually think. Yes.

1:32

It's a cycle. But we get more into

1:34

it during the podcast. And I'm really

1:37

honoured to be on this podcast today. I've been

1:39

listening to you folks for

1:41

a long time.

1:43

And

1:43

yeah, it's where I go when I want to

1:45

go to my happy place. Oh,

1:48

that's so cheerful. That's fantastic.

1:50

Yes. It genuinely brings us joy

1:52

because we're such fans

1:55

and we hope to be advocates for the

1:57

space itself.

1:59

as a performer inside of the industry

2:02

in a deeper way than we are that you listen to us. That's

2:04

really sweet. I think there's not enough

2:06

actually the reviewing

2:08

of porn. There is a lot of affirmation

2:11

like porn performers are getting

2:13

a lot of appreciation

2:16

and admiration and shout outs,

2:19

which is good. But I think maybe

2:21

this is more of a perspective of a

2:23

contemporary artist that we also

2:25

need feedbacks and we need to be able

2:28

to look at the creations

2:30

from like critical thinking

2:33

perspective to make it better and

2:35

to stay up to date. That's helpful to hear because

2:37

sometimes we feel like dicks. Like

2:40

over 2 hours on stuff. It's

2:42

nice to hear that like yeah it's an art form so

2:44

critique is invited and like

2:47

dialogue and all of that discourse is

2:49

helpful. Yeah. I don't think there's enough people

2:51

who think of porn as an art form. No. Yeah.

2:55

I think. Yeah. And

2:58

it is. Yeah. And it isn't

3:00

always. Sure. But

3:02

like the same way there's an art entertainment intersection in Hollywood.

3:05

Right. It certainly is important. Yeah. No,

3:08

there's people called art, lots of different things. You have people

3:10

who create illustrations and they

3:13

are called artists and I'm a

3:15

kind of a dick when it comes to

3:17

it. Because I

3:19

think definitions are made for the reason

3:21

and it does help us understand the

3:24

nature of different mediums.

3:27

And I know that in porn this is also

3:29

difficult because I myself

3:31

took part in shootings that are of all

3:35

kinds. And from

3:37

this natural non-scripted

3:40

no makeup. This is the kinky stuff.

3:43

Yeah. This

3:45

kind of porn then through narrative,

3:47

sonographic costumes, creations

3:50

with for example, Aricola.

3:52

So yeah, it can be very different.

3:54

And then some people also

3:57

who you hosted in the

3:59

podcast. create this artistic,

4:02

experimental porn. It's almost like video

4:04

art that is using sexuality

4:08

as a medium to express some things.

4:10

And this is something that I think is

4:12

really interesting when it crosses

4:15

the borders of

4:17

definitions and actually it

4:19

becomes something different for

4:21

every person and it leads to

4:24

the audience to decide what it does

4:26

for them. Yeah, it leaves it open to

4:28

interpretation. Also because I do

4:30

hate this elitist approach of

4:33

art and film and everything that it

4:36

will be understood only for the circle of people

4:38

that are in this scene.

4:40

And this is something ultimately amazing about

4:43

porn that it is democratic.

4:46

Everyone has desires and

4:49

it could be also desire to leave them alone but

4:51

still so people can relate

4:53

to the idea of

4:56

sexual encounter even

4:58

if they don't have certain fetish.

5:00

I feel like porn is so accessible

5:03

in the definition. I mean then

5:06

you should also pay but that's

5:08

a different story. We do advocate for paying for your

5:10

porn but there are ways, there's

5:12

a sort of spectrum of ethics to consume

5:14

it for free too. Do

5:16

you want to talk a little bit about how you got into

5:19

porn and where you land on

5:21

that spectrum from porn to art

5:23

or how already your porn is and what

5:25

that journey was? Okay, wrap yourself

5:27

and propose a snack. We're

5:30

gonna camp now. You're gonna

5:32

stay in your rooms for a while. I

5:36

will try to be quick. So,

5:39

maybe I should tell you that I actually

5:41

hated porn for a really long time. Oh,

5:43

what were some of your first experiences with porn?

5:46

Like what did you... Yeah, let's start

5:48

there. Yeah, it was something

5:50

different than I expected of course. So, I

5:52

was maybe more than hating. I was

5:55

scared of porn because I

5:57

was interested in sexuality. As a kid,

5:59

I... did experience arousal

6:02

and as any other

6:04

person, maybe a little bit more.

6:07

So there was a curiosity, but then it was

6:09

confronted with the situation where I was

6:12

in primary school and maybe I was 11, 10,

6:16

11 and we had an IT

6:18

class and the teacher went for a break. The

6:21

naughty boys from the class

6:23

were watching something on a screen. I couldn't

6:26

see, I had to go through the

6:28

crowd. I wanted to know what everyone is

6:30

so excited about and it was this

6:32

mainstream porn of an

6:35

actress lying there with

6:37

her legs apart and

6:39

then a bald guy was

6:42

pushing his head in and

6:45

I got terrified and also

6:47

kind of nauseous.

6:50

I had this assumption that sex, I

6:53

mean not all sex is like that, but it's

6:55

probably about extremes, about really

6:58

being ready to go full on growth

7:02

and that it probably hurts. So

7:04

I decided here and then that

7:07

I'm just going to be one of those people that

7:09

don't have sex. It's

7:11

fine, I'm going to read about it, I'm going to

7:13

watch films, but I'm just not going

7:15

to have sex and it kind of influenced

7:18

my interest because I started collecting

7:21

like vintage porn magazines because

7:24

still I was interested in porn and

7:26

I actually have lots

7:28

of cool magazines and

7:32

they are also in like 70s and

7:35

it's like they are from different countries and

7:37

like 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s I already

7:41

treat as like, that was already not

7:44

the same magic. Yeah, something

7:46

rich. Yeah, yeah. And I was really

7:48

interested in the aesthetic

7:50

but also in the way people

7:52

express their sexuality and if

7:54

they have fetish, why and

7:57

what drives this fetish and I was...

8:00

also diving into psychology and

8:03

the determinism. So like somebody

8:05

experienced something in a childhood I

8:08

used to watch their mom's

8:10

feet and fancy shoes

8:12

and then the food fetish. So it

8:15

was also something very interesting for me and

8:17

I would talk about this a lot and my friends

8:19

would say like you should go into porn and I'm like No,

8:22

you don't get it. This is my passion and

8:25

I'm a nerd. It would compromise

8:27

my intellect I was a bit of a snob as

8:29

well but at one point

8:31

I Had

8:34

to say it needed money You

8:39

know midlife nervous

8:41

breakdown and I realized all

8:44

the life I had this perfect

8:46

student the girlfriend of a guy

8:48

who has a kid Perfect

8:50

daughter like everyone expected

8:53

this rose from me and that it was

8:55

all bullshit And it had

8:57

to collapse because I was repressing

8:59

a lot and I was also

9:01

scared because people were calling me a slut

9:03

and Nymphomaniac so I had to keep

9:06

it all down and pretend that I'm not

9:08

really having all those needs and That

9:11

I also am not queer which I am

9:13

so a lot of stress and pressure So

9:16

once I had this the breakdown I

9:18

dropped out of the university. Yeah,

9:21

but it was a conscious decision I realized

9:23

like this is all something I need to

9:25

leave behind and start fresh and

9:28

I started fresh with porn And

9:30

I was lucky enough or

9:32

privileged and that by that time we

9:35

already had those companies

9:37

that usually it's a team

9:39

of women like camera people

9:42

are women and Companies

9:44

that you also mentioned on this podcast

9:46

in Berlin So this is also a privilege

9:49

of the Europeans porn scene that

9:51

mainstream is not really that popular

9:55

It's popular to watch it because

9:57

people can google it up for

9:59

free But when it comes to production,

10:02

nobody really knows where those productions,

10:04

at least at the time, it was not sure

10:07

where they are taking place. But

10:09

my first shoot, I thought I'm

10:11

ready in terms of my

10:13

Catholic trauma, because this is how I call it. I'm

10:16

an atheist, so I thought I left

10:19

it behind, but you never really... There's

10:21

something, there's sometimes something there that's like buried.

10:23

You're like, I have some Catholic stuff to deal with that

10:25

I feel like I left it behind, but it's still

10:27

kind of haunting me, even if I've rejected that

10:30

life. Yeah, absolutely. You have Italian

10:32

boots? Both of us do. We both do. Both

10:34

of us do. Absolutely, yeah. That's

10:36

amazing. And I talk about that a lot, that

10:39

I'm like, there's something in my DNA

10:41

that makes me so horny, that I just can't

10:43

fight. And it's

10:45

generations of past repressed sexuality.

10:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

10:51

So it's like this Catholic trauma

10:54

residue. It's always there

10:56

with you in the back of your head. And

10:59

it was a solo, so it was very

11:02

light in some ways. And

11:05

then I received money. And so that was... That

11:07

was nice. We didn't have transfers yet. And it

11:09

was so much money that I couldn't

11:11

fit it into my poor person wallet.

11:15

I was stressed. I felt like I should go home.

11:18

So I took it in and I put it in

11:20

my coat and I just went

11:23

home, but I forgot to get it

11:25

too. I took it, there was a controller. He

11:27

asked me about ticket. I burst in tears

11:30

because I thought, everyone knows, everyone

11:32

knows. Like

11:36

Philip Roth, writer, have

11:38

this satirical grotesque paranoia.

11:40

Yeah. And yeah, the

11:42

feeling that everyone knows. And this is the one

11:45

way street and I will never

11:47

be able to go back. But then

11:49

I slept for 14 hours and

11:51

I was fine. And I'm

11:53

like, I love it. Let's

11:56

do more. Wow. Well, I

11:58

think this was... like at the beginning

12:01

of my not only sexual liberation

12:04

from those stereotypes

12:06

that people want to fit women

12:09

in. And this also saying

12:11

kind of goodbye to some

12:14

ideas that I never really supported,

12:16

like becoming a mother and wife.

12:19

I mean, I still could theoretically,

12:22

but I, yeah. But it was never

12:24

really there. That's why I always laugh when people

12:26

ask, what if your kids will bump

12:29

onto your porn in 10 years or 20

12:31

years? I'm like, I don't think

12:33

it's gonna be on the internet still. People

12:35

kind of overestimate, but still, yeah. Yeah,

12:37

yeah, yeah, yeah. But they will know that

12:40

this is material, the visual

12:42

material. And I think by then

12:44

with the popularity of OnlyFans, it

12:47

will be chill. Yeah, exactly. If we

12:49

keep doing the Lord's work, we're just a destigmatized

12:52

porn and sex work. And we

12:54

better educate our kids from go

12:57

about like porn literacy and sex

12:59

in general. Then yeah, I think

13:01

it's perfectly suitable for

13:03

a kid to be aware of their

13:04

parents' journey. But it

13:06

sounds like you don't have kids. So like, why stress it right now?

13:09

And like, that's not to say that there are plenty of porn performers

13:12

who do have kids and they're fine. Yeah,

13:14

exactly. It is happening. This is not

13:16

happening. But if they ask us,

13:19

this would be some very isolated

13:22

incident. Like, yeah, people do have kids. Plenty

13:25

of sex workers that have kids. And

13:28

I even know sex workers families

13:30

where the kids are supporting their parents.

13:33

And yeah, so it can

13:35

be amazing because it's all

13:37

about communication. And with

13:39

perception of porn and

13:41

perception of sex work, the

13:44

main problem, the biggest issue

13:47

is like a French writer

13:49

said, the hell is other people?

13:52

And yeah, it's exactly

13:54

that. It's other than that. We would

13:56

be so happy and enjoy

13:58

our work without. Shame.

14:01

Yeah, exactly. It's the shame and the stigma.

14:03

It's not the act themselves. From everyone

14:05

else. Yeah. Yeah.

14:07

So was that first shoot

14:10

religiously charged or was it just

14:12

you personally confronting your

14:14

Catholicism in the shoot? It was personal

14:17

confrontation and I think

14:20

it was so intense because I didn't expect

14:22

it because I was so convinced

14:25

that, oh, I packed it in a box. Yeah.

14:28

So this journey into porn starting

14:30

from those like a little bit silly

14:32

videos of girls without makeup

14:35

having fun together really

14:38

helped me to explore my queerness.

14:41

And yeah, I also had to confront

14:43

some on prejudice and

14:45

bias and I realized, oh,

14:48

I'm so gay. It

14:50

was a bit of

14:53

a news flash. And I always tell people

14:55

porn is such an amazing area

14:57

to explore your queerness because there's

15:00

no rejection in porn. Yeah.

15:03

No, who performer are going to like see you on

15:05

set and be like, uh, no. Yes.

15:10

And such a good point. Yeah. More

15:12

important after the shoot, you

15:14

won't hear from this person, okay,

15:17

I cannot commit. Yeah. It

15:19

takes that pressure off. Yeah. It's

15:21

without the baggage of the personal interaction.

15:23

Yeah. So after

15:26

that point kind of replaced my intimate

15:28

life, but I mean, it was so

15:30

good and that I just didn't want to

15:32

go back to this civilian

15:34

stating and all this bullshit

15:37

that comes with it. It doesn't have to,

15:39

but it does. It's come with it. Yeah. Yeah.

15:43

So because in porn, at least in my case, having

15:46

to work with those European performers

15:48

also, like

15:51

some that you mentioned a lot on the podcast,

15:53

they are all fantastic people

15:55

that really are

15:57

interested in your boundaries, your preferences.

16:00

And I also realized that I

16:02

was not so good before that

16:04

either I mean, I thought

16:07

I'm a good lover and that it's the the

16:09

lovers were Sucking at it

16:12

and that I gave my best because

16:14

I think I was quite obedient and

16:16

giving But I realized that I didn't really

16:19

communicate properly either and I did

16:21

expect the magic to come to

16:23

me Yeah, you were maybe advocating

16:25

for your own pleasure Yeah, I think I

16:27

was expecting and then I was disappointed

16:30

and I was conditioned like many of

16:32

Polish people and I think it could Be

16:35

present in other Nationalities

16:38

too, but especially with the religious

16:41

Background to not talk

16:43

about a pleasure and to tell

16:46

particularly guess what the other

16:48

person wants and to yeah Make

16:50

it like film. Yeah,

16:52

like this sex was replaying

16:55

of some mainstream cliches

16:57

and You should just all shut

17:00

up Yeah,

17:03

and then no jokes either and no Noticing

17:07

funny stuff right? Yeah, it's

17:09

really opened my my head

17:11

to also things that I could

17:13

do better and Yeah,

17:16

it was great and still paid so

17:18

yeah, what else we can want but

17:20

at one point I wanted to go out of this frame

17:23

of the natural girls,

17:25

whatever girls and boys and

17:28

non-binary folks and do something

17:30

with more narration and I did

17:33

some little satires and porn

17:35

with some comedic Elements and

17:38

I started doing more experimental porn

17:40

here in Amsterdam I met other sex workers

17:43

who were interested in

17:46

Creating our the visual material and

17:48

we created the Amsterdam queer porn

17:50

collective So within this collective

17:53

we created some films and one of them got

17:55

into many festivals including Berlin

17:57

Pons and festival and I

17:59

was already when

18:02

I was on set with for example ex-confessions

18:04

and other bigger companies I was always

18:07

taking notes and taking pictures of what kind

18:09

of equipment they had what kind of

18:12

yeah and this was this educational

18:14

part of my job and of course

18:16

there are lots of performers who are there just to perform

18:19

and then when they have breaks that they

18:21

go on their phones which is okay

18:24

but I was like I want to know and

18:26

yeah it was all very handy and

18:28

then yeah and then I started doing things

18:31

on my own and created some documentary

18:34

that was about sexuality but not

18:37

not totally porn itself and

18:39

it did have a lot of a lot

18:41

of reflection on religion and the impact of

18:43

religion on our sexuality

18:46

on shaping of our sexuality and

18:48

gender and how we express it or

18:51

how this repression reflects

18:53

on our communication with other people

18:56

because it is so deeply rooted

18:59

in our personality

19:01

that we often are not aware

19:03

of but yeah so

19:05

then I realized I need

19:07

to recycle this as well

19:09

because

19:10

as not as shame is this

19:13

ongoing theme of my life

19:15

I figured that there's also potential

19:17

of using shame yeah

19:20

exactly I was gonna say this is a great segue

19:22

into non-sploitation which is today's

19:24

topic I think is a genre that's doing exactly

19:26

that right it's like it's leveraging

19:29

the repression it's like there's there's heat

19:31

in taboo we talk about this on the show a lot

19:33

that like a the more you repress

19:35

something the more you want to react against

19:37

that yeah something as pervasive and powerful

19:40

as the Catholic Church is incredibly present

19:43

even for those of us who are officially raised Catholic

19:45

you know so I'm curious

19:47

how how you play with that and

19:50

and what intrigues you about non-sploitation

19:53

so even before I started

19:55

doing porn I I had this

19:57

I still have it this little notebook

20:00

that I was noting my experiences

20:02

with different lovers and depending

20:05

on their nationality and the

20:08

religious impact and I

20:10

observed something funny

20:13

that people from countries

20:15

like Germany like the modern people who

20:17

have no closed eyes to religion they

20:20

tend to approach sexuality more

20:22

as a Logical experience

20:25

so like sex is good if

20:27

there is right speed frequency

20:29

duration If it's shave

20:31

and cleaner, yeah, so it's

20:34

just their system of measuring while

20:37

for religious folks or false

20:40

from religious countries It is

20:42

more of a wild experience and they

20:45

they tend to experience sex more

20:47

intense Because it's

20:49

something forbidden they didn't deserve pleasure.

20:52

They should not even be here Ah,

20:54

this is like their last day on earth

20:56

like ah And it's not that one

21:00

One person is better lover than the other actually

21:03

both experiences are good It's more

21:05

about how intense is this experience

21:08

and this inspired me to really

21:10

dive into it What is the impact

21:12

of shame and maybe it can make

21:15

this experience more interesting? so

21:18

I do think shame can be useful

21:20

in some way because You

21:22

don't take pleasure for granted. You

21:25

know that it has a cost so the

21:27

pleasure is more precious Yeah, but

21:29

this is this is more of

21:31

a theory and I realized that I'm

21:34

personally having a lot of Strong

21:36

feelings about the innocence and the lost

21:39

innocence. That was my whole issue

21:41

with becoming a porn

21:43

star

21:44

That there is a lost innocence,

21:47

but with the nazploitation. I was

21:49

heavily inspired by my favorite porn

21:52

director Valerian Borofczyk.

21:54

She was a Polish artist who immigrated

21:56

to France in 70s and she created these

22:00

amazing films that they are not really,

22:02

they go beyond porn, they are just dramas,

22:06

surrealist, quite feminist

22:08

films with amazing

22:10

masterpiece porn scenes. David Lynch actually,

22:13

for David Lynch it's like the idol.

22:16

He is very much inspired.

22:18

So it's like this hidden gem

22:21

and Valen and Podostrik

22:23

directed a film behind the convent walls

22:25

which is the best non-sploitation film

22:29

at least from the 70s, that I watched.

22:31

It's just so

22:33

sucking you in and it is building the story

22:37

because I realized porn also

22:39

is effective when there

22:42

is a good storytelling. When it

22:44

doesn't start just from fast-sucking, there

22:46

could be fast-sucking. I love fast-sucking.

22:49

People assume that I'm totally vanilla because

22:51

there's a lot of cuddling in my films but

22:53

I'm like yes but it's about

22:57

different slavers.

23:01

Kinkiness can be quite sweet. Yeah

23:03

and it's irregular. Human

23:06

sexuality is irregular and must be expressed

23:08

in irregular ways. I

23:11

really dislike this limited

23:14

definition of BDSM as well. So

23:17

I wanted to dive

23:19

into non-sploitation and I

23:21

was still using some opportunities

23:24

given to me so I was on the set of

23:26

the feature film by a

23:29

French Swiss director and

23:32

it was like an experimental very

23:34

long production. Many weeks

23:36

in the French countryside and I did that. Rough

23:38

life. Yeah that

23:41

was my confrontation with

23:43

okay what it is actually to be an actor

23:46

and I'm like it's a hard job.

23:49

I was already an actress but this

23:51

is different. Sure. Porn usually is

23:53

shot within one day and that

23:55

was many many weeks of shooting

23:59

but the last landscape, the location

24:01

was so great and there was also

24:03

a chapel. And yeah, and I

24:05

took I always take my own equipment

24:07

with me. So I use my

24:10

brakes instead of relaxing.

24:12

I went and I just I was setting

24:15

quickly the cameras and shooting

24:18

my own stuff using the

24:20

medieval nan costume. So

24:23

it's also something that I find

24:26

more interesting because if you Google

24:28

up non porn or

24:30

even non-spoitation, there's just a lot of cosplay.

24:32

And with all

24:34

respect to cosplay. I

24:37

don't think it has this power

24:39

if it cannot be polyester.

24:42

Yeah. No, I hear you. I hear

24:44

you. I really agree. You

24:46

know, the elements, the details matter

24:49

if you want to give this proper

24:51

storytelling. And

24:53

that was something that I also read that, yeah,

24:55

this is the kind of films I want to create,

24:58

of course, it requires some

25:00

budget. I mean, I make my

25:03

films with almost no budget

25:05

and I also do everything. I

25:08

set the cameras, I do the costumes

25:10

and editing. But

25:13

it is a lot of work and I would

25:16

benefit a lot from having some

25:19

support with that. Sure. So whenever

25:21

I have opportunity to have that

25:23

budget, I use it. And and

25:26

then it is really good. Yeah.

25:28

Really good. Yeah. But

25:30

then I'm also aware that I have

25:33

this script for amazing non-spoitation

25:35

film that is also science fiction.

25:38

Oh, fun. And it involves aliens.

25:41

Oh, there's probably an audience for that. I

25:43

feel like that's the intersection of a lot of things that

25:45

people want to see. If it's not,

25:47

I will find it. Before we

25:49

go too much further, I wonder if we should

25:52

define non-spoitation. Oh,

25:54

sure. Yeah. For our audience a bit more. Yeah.

25:57

You know, basically any exploitation film is trying

25:59

to monitor. monetize a trend, right?

26:01

Or monetize a culture through

26:03

a kind of like B-level movie. Like that's

26:05

what we think about when we think about exploitation films,

26:07

whether it's like exploitation. It

26:09

is a genre, it's like sub-genre

26:12

of the exploitation genre

26:14

that is typically

26:17

involving Christian nuns living

26:19

in convents.

26:20

And a lot of

26:22

the films also picture nuns

26:24

from Middle Ages. And

26:27

this had its peak in the

26:30

70s. Yes, this term is not

26:32

only referring to porn, it's

26:35

also films that are exploiting

26:37

this topic. And they

26:40

had big popularity in Italy

26:43

because of Vatican and

26:45

in Spain as well because those countries

26:47

have a high Catholicism,

26:50

high race, very pervasive Catholicism

26:53

majority in those countries. Fun

26:55

fact that scientists

26:58

found that people who are religious actually

27:00

to watch a lot porn. So

27:04

it's very relative and changing, but

27:06

this is something that I know from from

27:09

lived experience as well. And

27:12

it is like a cycle, you know, they watch, they

27:14

film, they go and confess,

27:16

they film again, so they can go, yeah, fast. They

27:19

can't just say, they can't just say, they can't say, they can't

27:21

say, they can't say, they can't say. But it's sort

27:23

of like the most distilled idea of like

27:26

sexual repression from the church, you

27:28

know, like, of course, like,

27:30

I, who hasn't thought like, what

27:32

are those nuns up to? What's under

27:35

that habit? Yeah,

27:37

like, what are they up to in there? Like,

27:39

they're all just sitting there alone? Come on. Yeah.

27:42

But it's also kind of, I don't know, in researching

27:45

this episode, I was fascinated to know that a lot of it,

27:47

there are some sort of like historical figures,

27:49

and like true stories that it's, you

27:52

know, that they do get some of this, this, some

27:54

of this has like, I have no idea about I don't

27:58

know if you're familiar with this, that but our wonderful

28:00

intern, pulled some additional research for us. I

28:03

had not heard of this fabled

28:06

nun of Monza. This

28:08

is 17th century, 14 year

28:11

old Mariana de Leyva,

28:14

daughter of a powerful aristocratic family,

28:16

was sent to live in a convent, continued an affair

28:19

with her lover, had several children, or two

28:21

children, and then when a

28:23

nun at her convent threatened to expose she

28:26

and her lover, they murdered her. Which

28:28

is, I didn't know that that was like maybe

28:30

an origin of some of the non-sploitation

28:33

genres in and outside of porn. And also

28:35

sister Benedetta Carlini. I

28:37

don't know if you guys remember a few years ago there was a Paul

28:39

Verhoeven who did Basic

28:41

Instinct and Showgirls. He made a movie

28:43

about Benedetta and it was at like Venice

28:46

and Cannes and it was like another like

28:48

erotic thriller, but it's based on a real

28:51

nun, an Italian Catholic nun who

28:54

had like visions and she had

28:56

like a relationship with another

28:58

sister and said that it was this like

29:01

demonic spirit that was coming

29:03

into her and forcing her to do

29:05

these things. Very handy

29:08

excuse, believable in the church. Exactly.

29:12

A lot of the times those films

29:15

are inspired by real stories. Also the

29:17

film by Ken Russell, which is

29:20

another director that I really like.

29:22

He didn't really do porn, but he did some

29:25

really campy interesting

29:28

films like Whore

29:30

about the life, like a day

29:32

from a sex worker life. I

29:35

mean it's kind of grotesque but at

29:37

the same time it's really really good.

29:39

And he made this film

29:42

Devils. Yeah it's like a cult

29:44

film. Don't you know it? I

29:46

don't know it. So yeah

29:49

Devils is about like a presence of

29:51

this handsome priest that

29:53

just creates

29:56

a lot of chaos and uproar around

29:58

the nuns. is more

30:00

than that. But yeah, it's like a drama. And yeah,

30:03

how those nuns are ready to do anything

30:06

once they believe in this. So yeah,

30:08

there's a lot about also submission

30:11

and dominance. And

30:13

I think, but this film is like

30:15

special. It's, it's also about

30:18

Catholic Church and hypocrisy.

30:20

But I really like that with

30:22

most non-sledation, this is also about

30:25

a resistance and or

30:27

like the rebel because it

30:30

is like a symbolic representation of

30:33

going against the authority. It's like a feminist

30:37

gesture of, yeah, of

30:39

really opposing this subordination.

30:42

So this is something what I find,

30:44

I think personally, and most interesting,

30:46

and this is why I'd like to watch non-sledation.

30:49

And I find it really hot because

30:52

of this discovery of

30:54

one's freedom, because the freedom

30:56

is not such an obvious given

30:58

thing. And we need to

31:00

believe in it. So yeah, this

31:03

is what I love about those films. And

31:05

there are some stories including nuns

31:08

that are still untold, which, yeah,

31:10

very interesting, that

31:13

I think I could take care of. Once

31:17

I find sponsoring because this is a tricky

31:20

bit as much as there

31:22

are companies who would be willing to

31:24

produce interesting pitch.

31:27

Nunsploitation is tricky because

31:30

of the audience. It is a bit of a

31:32

controversial take because it's

31:34

religion. And it's funny

31:37

because we produce different

31:39

films with some crazy fetishes and

31:41

normalize them and we are very

31:44

body positive and sex positive about

31:46

them. But still religion is a

31:48

tricky one. And there could be charged when

31:50

you come for the church, like there's always going to be

31:53

some blowback there for sure. And it could

31:55

be just a risky business

31:57

for for the company to produce that.

32:00

Well, let's see. I will have actually

32:02

conversation with the big producer.

32:05

So maybe Yeah,

32:08

it's not I will make

32:10

it my mission to do it by myself There

32:13

you go. I love that. Well, we'd love to talk more

32:15

about your work Let's take a quick break and then we can talk

32:17

about a couple of your films on the other side

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33:40

The other thing that I'll say that the Catholic

33:42

Church has to offer is like really delicious

33:45

iconography like there's some great Oh

33:48

my god, the costume. I love ya

33:50

crosses You beautifully

33:53

incorporate in your work. Yes I

33:56

mean I can say that with respect to bliss and

33:58

the Holy Tree which are two short yeah that

34:00

we watched of yours. That

34:02

you did everything for. Yeah. Like,

34:04

brought off. Production design. And

34:07

I guess you were telling us before the break that some

34:09

of the costumes were borrowed from another production,

34:11

or were both of these independently produced

34:13

completely? Okay, got it. It

34:16

was borrowed because I was already on

34:18

that set. Yeah. However, I do

34:20

have costumes at home as well. And

34:23

I always redesign stuff

34:25

myself as well. Like, I like

34:27

the original stuff. I mean, as

34:30

good as it could be, you know? I mean, I do a

34:32

lot of, I mean, majority

34:34

of my clothing is vintage anyway,

34:36

and like 70. Sure. So,

34:39

yeah. But this was basically the medieval

34:41

costume

34:41

that I thought it's gonna be cool

34:44

to

34:44

use it anyway. And I did ask for permission,

34:46

but other than that, yes. I

34:49

used what I had on the set. And

34:52

yeah, it was quite of a spontaneous production.

34:55

Normally I do the planning, mood board,

34:57

script, and everything like that. But

34:59

in this case, it was more like, okay, so

35:02

I have this afternoon free, let's

35:04

go. Yeah. And I

35:06

was there with Bishop Black. We're

35:09

such a fan of him. Yeah, we're such fans of

35:11

Bishop. Are they cool real life? Yeah.

35:15

Yes, they are really cool. And we

35:18

are good friends for many, many years. And it

35:20

is quite funny because we met, I

35:23

think about 12 years ago, and

35:26

it was not in context of porn.

35:29

Bishop was doing a performance, and

35:31

they had like a laser sticking up his

35:34

anus. And it was like

35:36

a dark, it was like a museum

35:38

space. It was like an art performance. And

35:41

there was just like this laser going. And

35:43

all my fellow, I was an art student

35:46

at that time. Not very great.

35:48

I was drunk a lot, but whatever.

35:51

Artist life. And they

35:54

were all sitting in silence, just completely

35:57

awkward and terrified. And

35:59

once...

35:59

the shop was close to me, I

36:02

gave them a slap on the bottom

36:05

and my fellow people were, oh my God, Natalia,

36:08

why you always have to do

36:09

something like that? You're impossible.

36:12

But I just thought it was funny because

36:14

it was breaking the seriousness. And

36:17

yeah, and this is how we met and we

36:20

stayed in touch. And eventually we

36:22

were working on films together

36:24

and yeah, we hang out together and we

36:27

are. Yeah, we are very close friends. And this

36:30

also made me realize that you

36:32

can have like friendships in porn

36:34

that are quite hard

36:36

to define. Like there is sexuality

36:39

and look like tender, but

36:41

there is no heaviness of

36:44

a relationship. So but

36:46

yeah, that was and creating

36:48

those films was inspired by

36:50

the situation there. And I'm often

36:53

creating art. Also,

36:55

I do photography based on something

36:58

that really interests me here

37:00

and then. So there was this

37:02

tree that was 100 years

37:05

old or longer even

37:07

older. I mean and I know

37:10

that this tree used to be a part

37:12

of the kids play

37:15

and the owner of this Villa and this territory

37:18

would tell me that as a kid, you would

37:20

climb on the tree and they would just

37:23

hide there. And play this

37:25

imaginary scenarios. And

37:28

then I'm like, well, I'm going to

37:30

do that as well. Yeah, adult

37:32

context. Yeah. And I

37:34

thought this is such a unique opportunity

37:37

and something that just already

37:40

creates this story in a way. And

37:42

in this film, I

37:44

wanted more to give the feeling

37:46

of this awakening

37:49

sexuality of a nun

37:52

and the nature. So it's like connecting

37:55

this overwhelming

37:57

need of expressing oneself. but

38:00

also be together with the nature almost

38:02

as yeah sex is a primal and

38:05

natural thing. So I love that

38:07

I was gonna say my favorite thing about both

38:10

of these videos as holy tree and bliss is

38:12

that there's nothing sort of shameful About

38:14

the the sex itself, which is rare

38:17

I think in like, you know because

38:19

a lot of people want to like lean in to like the shame

38:21

or the repression and like Non-splitatio

38:23

or like religious porn videos, but

38:26

I loved that it was sort

38:28

of like spiritual Which

38:31

always you see think like wow the

38:33

church really missed an opportunity With

38:35

like without like you like they could have you like

38:37

a sex and orgasms are so

38:40

like when you think of like awesome

38:42

like they are You you do

38:44

get to like I always call it like the sex dimension

38:46

like you do go to like another state

38:49

like mentally physically Spiritual state.

38:51

Yeah, it's a spiritual state and like the church

38:54

really missed an opportunity Instead

38:56

of like, you know, they could never use that as opposed

38:58

to fight that ever press that exactly They

39:02

should produce porn. Yeah, I mean You

39:05

know because it is sort of like that's the closest I've ever

39:07

felt to seeing God is like when I'm coming,

39:09

you know And so I really loved

39:11

that I also like there was enough I mean just the opening

39:13

shot of you and like in front of the tree with like

39:16

the Light moving across your face was just like stunning.

39:18

I just thought it was a gorgeous shot I loved

39:20

also your glasses fell at one

39:22

point and it was just really cute And I thought I love

39:24

that you kept it in and then also

39:27

the contrast of leaving a habit

39:29

on but being naked Yeah is

39:31

also like so important I think

39:33

again like keeping the props though

39:36

costume of your thing that

39:38

you are Imploding, you know

39:40

like context. Yeah. Yeah, like pulling

39:42

the habit open and not a polyester

39:44

habit by the way I was made up. It looked

39:46

like burlap like it Looks like the

39:49

real like I know yeah But

39:51

like pulling that open and like keeping that

39:54

as an element of it Like we love to see

39:56

when people keep a little bit of clothes

39:58

on or pull panties to the side like fuck with urgency,

40:00

you know, but it was especially useful here because

40:03

it was like leaning into

40:05

the actual motif of the

40:07

whole film to leave it on, you know,

40:09

like you're keeping the religion on but Violating

40:12

it at the same time. It's it's hot. It was a really

40:14

really cool choice. Thank you I also

40:16

loved one of my favorite

40:18

parts

40:19

was the foot the shot of foot Because

40:22

I am someone who

40:24

comes with their feet like

40:26

my feet are my toes are curling They're

40:28

they're unlike getting a charlie horse And

40:31

I thought that was just sort of like a beautiful way of like,

40:33

you know I we always talk about like what you what

40:35

you're not seeing, you know To

40:37

show that as like the orgasm. I thought

40:39

that that tension is like what yeah. Yeah.

40:42

Yeah. Yeah I thought that was really

40:44

smart. I really loved it. Thank you. Yeah,

40:46

so we just brought you on to compliment you we really love Your

40:50

work and um and also

40:52

in bliss also, yeah great perfect Um,

40:55

just what we wanted bliss also, I mean

40:58

similar things I mean I loved that

41:00

there was sort of I mean, I don't know what like

41:02

the intention was there but my idea

41:05

of like what the Narrative is is that like

41:07

bishop is some sort of like worker, you

41:09

know, like working in the ground and like the

41:11

interaction almost

41:12

starts

41:14

Just pretty innocently like you don't assume like sex

41:16

is going to happen Like there is sort of like, you

41:18

know, maybe he's praying

41:19

he's or maybe they're praying they're kneeling

41:21

and you sort of approach them

41:24

Like a nun or a priest would

41:26

like oh like bless you like in a

41:28

blessing way Almost almost a blessing

41:31

and then again like the sex acts like i'm

41:33

going down on you and leaving like the clothing on

41:36

Yeah, and again, no shame worship

41:38

fall. It also feels much like god

41:40

or mother. Yeah, which is extremely catholic

41:43

as well Yeah, I really especially

41:46

with bliss So this was always

41:48

when you have another performer

41:50

in film There are more contexts

41:53

and and it's also about dynamic

41:55

and yeah, um relationship

41:57

and yeah, and this cannot be random

42:00

everything means something. So yeah,

42:02

with this film, I didn't want to have

42:05

only one possible

42:08

interpretation because I really like the audience

42:10

to be able to tell that

42:12

story in their way. But

42:16

basically, I wanted to play with some stereotype

42:19

where usually the man of color

42:21

is the one who is seducing and

42:25

overpowering my woman.

42:28

And I mean, I wanted to flip it and I

42:30

really like to just not

42:34

play into people expectations,

42:36

but actually play with

42:38

those expectations and actually

42:41

show that the power dynamic can be very

42:43

relative and there's no

42:46

point in assuming who

42:48

seduced who. I think in

42:50

this film, it is clear that it's

42:53

coming from both, but it's still

42:56

the non takes some initiative and

42:59

yeah, she's not the passive submissive object.

43:02

So yeah, it is there's

43:05

always a little bit about the power dynamic

43:07

that I want people to rethink

43:10

and not just the

43:12

things that they always watch. And

43:15

ultimately, I wanted to be also

43:18

about good sex and we

43:20

decided I mean, full penetration

43:23

would be tricky in

43:26

the circumstances, but I also realized like, yeah,

43:28

people always expect the porn

43:31

to have this same structure

43:34

starts from blowjob, then it yeah,

43:36

we talk about that a lot. Yeah. And

43:38

I was laughing when I heard you making

43:40

fun of this, because this was something that

43:42

I always found so boring. And yeah,

43:46

it's very played out. sexuality is not like

43:48

that. And sexuality is really

43:50

something more than penetration.

43:52

And yeah,

43:55

I wanted to show that yet the sex can be

43:58

expressed in different ways and also Each

44:00

is valid and very powerful

44:03

and there doesn't always need to be an orgasm. Yeah,

44:05

exactly. I mean I'm

44:08

kind of person that so this is something

44:11

that I just do I It's

44:13

not obligatory and I don't expect this

44:15

from every co performer but

44:18

when I started doing porn I also figured

44:21

that okay, I'm gonna be orgasms

44:23

because first of all, we are spending

44:25

like eight or 12 hours

44:27

on set naked and what

44:30

we gonna just pretend like And

44:34

then I'm gonna get home all horny

44:36

and tense and then masturbate it So

44:40

much Yeah, so

44:42

I kind of trained myself to also

44:44

make myself available for

44:46

that It's I always tell people

44:48

because they're like, yeah, but this is like there's

44:50

camera and there's time pressure You

44:53

can train you can train everything. Yeah

44:56

I had to train myself to be vulnerable enough

44:59

to have orgasm during sex,

45:01

you know, like I discovered that Evasibility

45:03

so like doing that with someone witnessing it was

45:05

something that was like tricky for me as an

45:07

adult like coming into my own sexual

45:10

comfort, you know, so I imagine Similarly,

45:13

like you can become comfortable with the cameras. You can

45:15

choose to be like, how do I find my presence? How do I

45:17

find my vulnerability

45:18

right in order to like really

45:20

engage in this as opposed to perform it, you

45:22

know And I know that's every performer's choice that

45:24

not a lot of performers do it that way But yeah,

45:27

it's fascinating to hear that you do and it's

45:29

not always something that easy But

45:31

I think it also assures

45:34

audience that yeah They

45:36

are not doubting my orgasm also guys.

45:39

Yeah, and I like to Emphasize

45:42

that the real orgasm is not

45:44

usually it's not that pretty. Yeah,

45:46

exactly. We talk about this a lot Yeah,

45:49

you know, it's not when your face

45:51

looks, you know sexy

45:54

and But I do think we need

45:56

to normalize that because people

45:58

then get surprised when they have sex

46:01

and they see someone having

46:03

real orgasm and they are terrified. And yeah,

46:06

it's terrifying to themselves, like scared

46:09

to be anything but like

46:11

perfect and performative

46:11

and pretty ugly. Yeah. Yeah.

46:15

Yeah. Well, should we talk briefly

46:17

about possession as well before we wrap up the episode? Yeah, I want to.

46:19

I love this too. Yeah. Yeah.

46:22

I love this because, you know, and we didn't really talk about this earlier,

46:25

but like, there's also the idea that like sex

46:27

is like representing like the devil or like,

46:29

you know, like it's like something

46:31

else that's responsible

46:34

for like the sexuality. And

46:36

I really loved this video. It's

46:38

called Possession. It's on Alt Shift. We found

46:40

it on Pink Label. And

46:43

it is sort of like a horror-esque

46:45

non-sploitation. And

46:48

there's this great, like it starts with like, you know, maybe

46:50

I was reading into this, but it had like a 1970s vibe,

46:53

you know, like it was a different time. Like this is

46:55

again, like peak non-sploitation. Hint is like

46:57

the exorcism of settings, you know,

46:59

like there's a lot of cells you can reference that have that

47:01

retro-catholic. Right. Or the

47:03

idea of like finding recordings

47:06

of like someone else who this has previously happened

47:08

to. It's also like, you know, has like

47:11

the horror aspect. The horror of it that

47:13

like there's previously like, you know, you're finishing

47:15

the research of the Southern nun and

47:17

you get the recordings and the Southern

47:20

nun is talking about how, you know, she

47:22

found this book and like the images of this book are

47:24

like haunting her. And basically then this

47:26

demon comes and possesses you. And

47:30

I loved it. I loved the idea of it, like

47:32

shooting through the woods, the spirit, like flying

47:34

in, taking over your body. And this

47:37

is a striking image of like eyes

47:39

being rolled back into the head. You know, I was going

47:41

to say like the image of possession that

47:43

like looks like the image of coming

47:45

sexual ecstasy. Yes. Yes.

47:48

Yeah. And when I come, like my eyes

47:51

are rolling in the back of my head. You know, so

47:53

and like the idea of like writhing. I just,

47:56

there were so many things about it that I love, like the dress popping

47:58

open, like something pulling.

47:59

your panties, like the white like kind of virginal

48:02

panties down and like the

48:04

cross sort of like there was like a cross like your necklace

48:06

like falling across your body like almost like getting tight

48:08

across your throat like

48:09

it was like rejecting the religious

48:12

you know on your that's on your person.

48:15

Yeah, it just reminded me I remember seeing the show

48:17

at the box here in in

48:19

New York of like this this it was like a non-sploitation

48:22

show where like this nun was getting like possessed

48:24

and she started she like fucked herself on stage with

48:27

like a with like a crucifix

48:29

that had a dildo on the end. Yeah.

48:32

And it was like a demon. Yeah, it was it was incredible. Like,

48:34

yeah, it was like she like word it was great.

48:36

Yeah, we have a friend who does some non-play

48:39

at a sex party like a big sex party in New

48:41

York and Los Angeles as well. It's a really cool

48:43

genre. I'm pretty good. I want

48:45

to know. I will I will

48:47

act later around this. Yeah.

48:50

But yeah, I just love like the contortions of

48:53

the body like you know like the rising

48:55

and when you do

48:58

come like there's like almost like a look of like fear

49:00

like confusion that I can

49:03

relate to as someone like I'm like what's

49:05

happening? You know, yeah, but it also leans

49:08

into the idea that this would be a very like someone who wouldn't

49:10

understand those feelings. Yeah. Who like

49:12

what that which is hot and itself again, it like leans into

49:14

the taboo. Yeah, so

49:16

all right. And then also the demon then

49:18

like leave your pussy like after you come

49:21

it like shoots back into like, you know, I

49:23

loved that. Yeah. The whole process

49:25

was so amazing because

49:28

I really love working with Alt Shift.

49:30

Yeah, that's great to know. People who

49:32

horrendous it's a small company

49:35

and but they do work for another

49:38

companies. And yeah, it's

49:40

the same team. And yeah, they're

49:43

my favorite people to work with. Yeah,

49:45

they are based in UK. So

49:48

it is tricky for me to,

49:51

for example, collaborate with them on

49:53

a regular basis. But yeah,

49:55

when they offered this to me, I was

49:58

like, it's just like, you know. Yeah,

50:00

I think yes. Because I was

50:03

just, we just finished filming this

50:06

long feature experimentals and

50:09

where I'm playing a nun

50:12

as well. So I was like, I think

50:14

this is like the theme that's going to be. You're on a nun

50:16

trip. Yeah. Yeah. It's

50:19

following me. And it was just so,

50:21

also so easy because they're very,

50:24

really great producers and they

50:27

can write really good scripts and

50:30

everything was just very pleasant

50:32

because they knew what they were doing.

50:34

And this is something that I missed in a

50:36

lot of the collaborations

50:39

with, let's say, fellow performers. And

50:42

this is also why I'm not really going

50:44

for like content creation much. And

50:48

not because I find, yeah, it could

50:50

be probably also beneficial financially,

50:52

but yeah, I like interesting

50:55

projects. You have artistic sensibilities

50:57

and curiosities. Yeah, I love that. It can be also

50:59

ridiculous. And it doesn't have to be

51:01

the art project, but it just

51:04

needs to have something interesting for me

51:06

to dive in, to spend time for. And

51:09

it's sometimes really not about money.

51:12

This was just very, there was

51:14

a very modest budget, but I would

51:16

totally go for it again. And

51:19

we shot it actually after another

51:21

big production. It was just something to

51:24

do at the end before wrapping

51:26

everything. And

51:29

I remember that the person

51:32

who is in this production

51:34

helped me to apply lenses because

51:36

I never done that in my life before. I was

51:39

like, girl's time, like pajama

51:43

party, but a bit more crazy. Yeah,

51:47

the shooting was so fun. And the

51:49

idea of they got to make it supernatural,

51:53

like the opening of the dress that were

51:55

like this. I'm not going to spoil it because

51:57

I want people to feel excited. Yeah,

52:00

no, it's so hot. It's very hot foam Yeah,

52:03

and I think the best is that I

52:05

like to take part in those projects and I rarely

52:08

watch my films like

52:11

immediately after they are released because

52:13

for me it's more about the experience that

52:15

I had and Yeah, being

52:17

something like really great and pleasant And

52:20

surprisingly this film got some awards

52:23

and also the math magazine Award

52:26

for the best point. Oh, yeah So

52:29

it was surprised because it is amazing But I

52:31

just didn't think that so many people will

52:33

be that pleased so that

52:36

was such a nice surprise and such a good thing

52:38

for Alt Shift and Yeah,

52:40

they deserve a lot of attention because they do

52:42

some really really cool stuff and they're

52:44

really ethical they are treating performers

52:47

the best and they give

52:49

the least stress because Working

52:52

in porn is ultimately stress. It

52:54

can be stressful. Yeah Schedule

52:58

and you need to reply to emails

53:00

and sometimes one production can require like 35

53:04

emails and Just

53:07

like one week. Yeah You

53:10

have to be on your phone all the time. You have to

53:12

go get tested And yeah, I mean but

53:14

this has to be done, but you need to give

53:17

up other things to do it But without

53:19

shift, this is always they managed

53:21

somehow to make it just smooth. Everything

53:24

is there as well But yeah, so

53:26

I really wish to to have more projects

53:29

like offer to me that are in this horror

53:32

sci-fi Much

53:35

of this in porn I feel like

53:39

Like this they could there's a lot

53:41

of queer and there's a lot of art

53:44

key or like glamour Stylish

53:46

porn, but yeah, I haven't seen

53:49

much horrors Which

53:51

is crazy because we talk about how in

53:53

horror films. It's like the same those

53:55

actually charged Yeah, like very like what

53:57

happens in your brain, you know, it's like centers

54:00

are a GSA. Yeah,

54:04

so it was such a

54:06

such a pleasure and it's also inspiring

54:08

you to you know okay there's

54:10

not much of this kind of porn let's

54:13

make it you always need

54:15

to be like exploring this on

54:17

your own then because people will follow

54:20

eventually yeah and yeah

54:22

I really wish performers and producers were

54:25

more brave in this choice

54:27

of topics and scripts because

54:29

I feel like a lot of companies still

54:32

play safe to please their

54:34

subscribers and to keep that base

54:37

of subscribers which makes sense from

54:39

the business standpoint but

54:42

it also is

54:45

raising the possibility of getting

54:47

the new base of followers yeah

54:49

yeah for sure yeah and I

54:51

think religious people are this

54:54

the potential oh yeah

54:56

oh yeah yeah that's something to

54:58

tap into for sure thank you so

55:00

much for being here now this is a fascinating

55:03

conversation and we love to like peek behind

55:05

the curtain and hear about the work and how it's made

55:07

and we love to hear that you have good experiences with companies

55:10

that we champion here so yes that's wonderful

55:13

what do you want to plug where can people find

55:15

you or what are you what are you pointing

55:17

people to these days so I just want to mention

55:20

regarding my work that nowadays I actually

55:23

work also at a nonprofit

55:25

organization where I'm doing other

55:27

than the activism

55:29

stuff for its sex worker rights I

55:32

also do tours for my

55:34

district oh hey yeah

55:36

this is from prostitution information

55:39

center in Amsterdam

55:40

and this is also funny because the red light

55:42

district is in our place

55:45

is just in front of the church there are sex workers

55:47

and this is interesting

55:50

because a lot of people get shocked

55:52

by this presence this proximity

55:55

and then ask me like who allows

55:57

that like why is it here it was those

55:59

women and I tell them that, well,

56:02

this is pretty simple. The church is

56:05

manufacturing the guilt and shame

56:07

and sex workers are utilizing it. So

56:11

it's working perfectly together. So

56:14

this is something also I do and

56:16

people can come and get

56:18

information and also participate

56:20

in the tours. And

56:23

other than that, I'm on social media.

56:25

I'm on

56:26

Instagram as not Fortnoy. And on

56:28

Instagram, there's also a link to my link tree

56:31

that lists all the other things

56:34

that I do. And yeah,

56:37

my films are also on pink labels. So

56:40

if people click on my link from

56:42

that link tree, they also support

56:44

me by buying the films

56:46

there. So

56:49

I encourage. Wonderful. And

56:51

I really would like people to, first

56:54

of all, enjoy themselves. Yes,

56:56

love that. Thank you so much again,

56:58

Nat. I know, thank you for coming on. This is wonderful.

57:01

Thank you. And thank you

57:03

so much for listening to Girls on Portn. You can find

57:05

us on Instagram and TikTok at Girls on

57:07

Pern, on Twitter for

57:09

as long as it lasts, at GOP the podcast, our

57:12

website, girlsonporn.com and on patreon.com

57:14

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57:17

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57:19

you haven't already. And hey, if you wanna

57:21

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57:25

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57:28

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57:30

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57:41

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