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I hop on before we record our

1:00

episodes and we shoot the shit about

1:03

our latest sexual adventures and also answer

1:05

questions submitted by listeners like you. That's.

1:07

Right? You couldn't genuinely ask us

1:09

anything and will honestly probably respond.

1:12

We've. Yet to encounter a question we couldn't

1:14

handle. Gauntlet. Thrown famous last words.

1:16

You. Can find us

1:18

and patriarch.com/girls on Porn.

1:22

Welcome the girls on Porn! I'm

1:24

Rachel, I'm Laura and we love

1:26

porn. This is Are Born. review

1:29

podcast. We talk about what we

1:31

lovingly roast, what we hate, helping

1:33

you find hot ethical just plain

1:35

better. Born For years. Bang Bang

1:38

And we're looking at everything. Today

1:45

we're joined by a fabulous cast.

1:47

Welcome Tara! thank you so much

1:49

for being here! Thank you so

1:52

much for having me also of hours! So

1:54

cool to watch admire. Yamaha.

1:57

Having a. Year we have a.

2:00

The approval of their you know either

2:02

as a movie be surprised how often

2:04

as we screwed up and says that

2:06

we both like it up the same

2:08

lines. a retired so severe that a

2:10

different personality or there's enough to guys

2:12

are braille us a semester and. Towards

2:15

the get so much for coming on the

2:18

cell were so said talk to you and

2:20

for those of you who aren't familiar term

2:22

a Hill is a Black queer sex educator

2:24

based in Philadelphia and New York. She is

2:27

the founder of the Youths Expert Program, a

2:29

nonprofit training program that aims to provide comprehensive

2:31

sex education for high school aged used to

2:33

they could become the community sex experts. Her

2:36

work focuses primarily. On how and justice

2:38

and of us and sexual interactions and she

2:40

uses her social media platforms and written pieces

2:43

to cast with a community on these issues.

2:45

Thanks for coming on and Id The person

2:47

we connected with on Instagram says isolate. Connects.

2:50

Yeah I always made so I have

2:52

a face and avoid sit around us.

2:54

yeah online of. Her son a human

2:57

to interact with. I am so

2:59

fascinated by the nice of your

3:01

organization Tara Like empowering teenagers to

3:03

become experts and advocate like themselves.

3:05

The gonna tell us a little

3:07

bit about how that came about

3:09

and just even about the organization

3:11

itself. Yeah, I think I was

3:13

at a point in time in

3:15

my life. I think a lot

3:18

of. People who have ever

3:20

freelance to or are him

3:22

to sexual education save our

3:24

stocks rallied. Fresno's can relate

3:26

to kind of being between

3:28

things and kind of feeling

3:30

like a little bit lost.

3:32

in some ways I was

3:34

freelancing. Freelancing can be hard.

3:37

Some. Month or better than others and it

3:39

isn't. Always feel like you're doing the work

3:42

for years the most passionate. About reflecting

3:44

a lot. On why I started

3:46

doing sex education the first place.

3:48

I started out as a brighter

3:50

arm and then I moved to

3:52

contact police and and added in

3:54

some public speaking and really thinking

3:57

about were led me to wanted

3:59

to those. I really

4:01

thought. About all of these moments of my

4:03

life that especially in high school that I

4:05

feel like were really harmful and could have

4:08

been prevented if somebody had just been willing

4:10

to be honest with me about sex. And

4:13

so I think in that reflection I realized that

4:15

there are many ways in which us and of

4:18

became his person that I wish that. I

4:20

had and now a kind

4:22

of started sutcliffe like who. Else

4:24

to sort of help create that

4:26

community role for people in high

4:28

school than me. especially with all

4:31

the resources and Olympics mentioned that

4:33

Made of Others has educated I

4:35

felt like him. So many people

4:37

doing such incredible work with geared

4:39

towards adults and I wanted. To

4:41

see if there is a way that we

4:43

could take a lot of the sex education

4:45

than existed in. These online spaces. And

4:48

sort of make. It appropriate for a younger

4:50

age group because I think that they need

4:52

it. The most. Totally.

4:55

Are. I mean, it's

4:57

crazy to think about the sex said that

4:59

I got in high school and like I

5:01

don't know what they're doing now, but I

5:03

hope it's better ear now. Yeah, yeah, I

5:06

was raised in Massachusetts. I know that like

5:08

in the grand scheme of things, I. Got

5:10

good. Like the better end On the

5:12

better end of the spectrum. As far

5:14

as sex education though, it's so nowhere

5:17

near comprehensive, right? Yeah, Yeah and

5:19

I just think about. All those very basic things

5:21

that I didn't know that myself and my

5:23

my own body like. Even

5:25

certain curious and like not knowing where my

5:28

vagina was and all these just moments where

5:30

the I somebody very I mean maybe not

5:32

very easily but somebody. It was very important

5:34

at the time that somebody be honest with

5:37

me and nobody was. Yeah. Yeah

5:39

yeah. What? Resources to do eventually.

5:41

Signs like did you ultimately like turn to

5:43

the internet like did you have people like

5:46

mentors that you kind of sought? Ours is

5:48

even like older kids like some that was

5:50

part of I actually had I think the

5:52

great yeah I had a great like sad

5:54

like my. My. Mom is very canada

5:56

and transparent with me so like I had that

5:58

support that that I also. When. For

6:00

Unitarian Church and I've been finding these

6:03

people in the sex space like other

6:05

sex professionals her like I did. This

6:07

program called our whole lives right It

6:10

it was told about your sexuality and

6:12

it was the most progressive most like

6:14

empowering success like you just very advanced,

6:16

like they weren't shying away from the

6:19

stuff that kids are prepared to hear

6:21

about until like learn about but was

6:23

very like supported and ends clear and

6:26

like allowed for like inquiry and like

6:28

we learned about masturbation. we learned about.

6:30

Different Sexuality is we learned about as the

6:32

eyes that without like a fear mongering component

6:34

to it and it as a guy took

6:36

on a similar role where I was like

6:38

the friend who was like let me tell

6:40

you about that are like that's not true

6:42

like would have with equipped with information and

6:44

became kind of event or to people around

6:46

me but i did also like get education

6:48

from. You. Know like the seniors

6:50

when I was a freshman who are like

6:53

oh my fucking shower head and I was

6:55

like what do you mean in L? A

6:57

S L A level of that so can

6:59

just curious to hear where you eventually like

7:01

sounds, that information and how you kind of

7:03

empowered yourself. it sounds like yeah that's so

7:05

funny that. You. Were saying that

7:07

you had a good group of sophistication In my head

7:09

I would like I bet you into you surge. Of

7:13

you point your that from yeah and I

7:15

have no idea until I started talking to

7:17

other people in the space and they yeah,

7:19

same with this experience or done a lot

7:21

of research on like what that looks like,

7:24

even just sing for Braden our program because

7:26

that's something I like to look at him

7:28

think about it like or the national standards

7:30

that other groups during this working you know?

7:33

yeah yeah it so we can make it

7:35

as like comprehensive. And inclusive possible, but.

7:38

To answer your question, I

7:40

feel like throughout high school

7:42

adolescent. I was really to stumbling through. And

7:44

I think the thing that helps me.

7:47

I didn't really have any one

7:49

that I was learning from, but

7:51

I was more so sharing my

7:53

experiences just kind of stumbling through

7:56

on my private social media account

7:58

when I was like fifteen and

8:00

thirty in my sister. Honestly now

8:02

I totally credit that for being

8:04

the beginning of my journey as

8:06

like a sexuality professional because I

8:08

was sharing all about my may.

8:11

Average person or really everything. and I

8:13

still do posed like a hundred times

8:15

today like I suppose on a console

8:17

and. That is like my

8:20

save face and I think it

8:22

was specifically the conversations about sad

8:24

that I didn't really see anyone

8:26

having anywhere else. And. Every

8:28

time I would talk about it. As.

8:30

The like people were slipping up and

8:32

really engaging with that meant to sell

8:34

like there was such a need. So

8:37

when I got into college I on

8:39

to the literature class and we had

8:41

a unit on sexuality and it was

8:43

to sell it. Profound. To

8:45

me that there was a Professor

8:47

Luxor egg inside of a group

8:49

of like two hundred students. My

8:51

talking about sex in a classroom

8:53

like Isis. I could not believe

8:55

that so often I was taking

8:57

any classes that I had about

8:59

sex and sexuality. I changed my

9:01

major. I started reading bucks and there

9:04

is a long period of. Time are offended.

9:06

Cut my head down. I didn't wanna put

9:08

myself out there. I was in one expert

9:10

or or anything like that. I just wanted

9:12

to learn as much as possible. That I

9:14

mean, I also feel like throughout the Cerny

9:17

I've. Also. Learned that I feel

9:19

like I could spend all day everyday

9:21

setting facts and still hit like two

9:23

percent of what there is to know

9:25

about. Said. Yes because everybody define.

9:27

Six differently. There's so little

9:30

research on so many topics

9:32

around sexuality. That's the thing is

9:34

it's air like the lack of research the

9:36

like. This is what we believe anecdotally like

9:38

ray but we can't give sucking sunday like

9:40

actually look at it as if I mean

9:42

there are what a lot of wonderful efforts

9:44

and researchers a few of which we've been

9:47

lucky to have on a so but they

9:49

will speak to like how difficult it is

9:51

that support and like how underserved the community

9:53

is at large race which goes to so.

9:56

A How crucial like the

9:58

internet is hum. Which

10:00

is both a wonderful thing. Like

10:02

it is still a democratic form

10:05

of information. Source: Saying But

10:07

it's also a fuckin' dark space. and also

10:09

like cannot be the only form of sex

10:11

education available in right Which is a lot

10:13

of what we grapple with here on the

10:15

cell. And like we're in a talk about

10:17

the day was like porn literacy. Yeah yeah,

10:20

is that something that you grapple with Ends

10:22

work through late in your organization and like

10:24

address with your. Your. Kids yeah, hundred

10:26

percent I think porn mutters. the was one

10:28

of the things that we knew we really

10:30

wanted to prioritize and our curriculum young. And

10:33

what's been really cool is we have

10:35

guessed educators come in throughout the semester

10:37

and I knew that in designing the

10:39

curriculum that was one of the topic

10:41

that I really wanted us to have

10:43

them guess educators and be gone. So

10:45

he spoke with Cindy Gallop from a

10:47

club that for an experiment harley from

10:50

a Roar new some of the as

10:52

it Is No materials from the Porn

10:54

Conversation which is an article Us project

10:56

and so it was really cool having

10:58

a support from from other like sexuality

11:00

professionals and organizations by yeah that's that's.

11:02

Hugely Yes! Yes, because

11:05

of a lot of times, porn is

11:07

like a form of a sex education.

11:09

To you know younger generations doing it

11:11

was also just for like my generation

11:14

like a lot of people were getting.

11:16

Hotter. Have Sex Eat Out. Because my

11:19

sex education it wasn't about how to

11:21

have sex, how to masturbate, it was

11:23

the spaces like here's the you know

11:25

critical name of everything and period as

11:27

And here's how pregnancy app pens and

11:30

like a lot my I have sex

11:32

ed teachers tell me that like a

11:34

female orgasm like isn't we all have

11:36

fun but yeah yeah like a way

11:39

not break. And so I also

11:41

like always wanted to be like the person with

11:43

the most like knowledge and tips and tricks and

11:45

like of my own a knee and like I

11:47

wanted to be like the cool girl that was

11:49

like this is i give a blow job Seattle

11:51

and as a horny kid so that watching porn

11:54

at a young age, watching like late nights get

11:56

a max whatever. relying on Cosmos for like mad

11:58

finer about how to give her. Now

12:01

with like porn being so

12:03

accessible, it's important. To sort of

12:05

know the spectrum of porn and that's

12:07

basically the female for listeners like what?

12:09

Porn literacy. Is it's to teach people

12:12

to think critically about what you're what

12:14

you're watching and it's influence and how

12:16

like it makes you think and feel?

12:19

Yeah, yeah. I think I've

12:21

also noticed through having a background in

12:23

during Sex and on social media that

12:25

I I personally feel like there's some

12:28

conversations that do feel a little bit

12:30

too nuanced. Social media

12:32

or at least for an eyesore from

12:35

video content sir and that to be

12:37

really frustrating especially when you like try

12:39

to pursue a success in Manassas met

12:41

with there are people just really see

12:43

Babbel lack of critical thinking skills on

12:45

early on the am. The cool thing

12:47

about getting to have access to say

12:50

so. Extreme to scream moment with

12:52

our students is that we

12:54

gets her have these really

12:56

nuanced conversations. So even though

12:58

I think overwhelmingly students at

13:00

this age especially all of

13:03

our students from our last

13:05

cohort were non men so

13:07

they have this sort of,

13:09

they're coming in with this

13:11

approach. Soft porn is centrally

13:13

negative, porn is in are

13:15

perpetuating the stereotypes pressuring violence

13:17

against women and some of

13:19

these things. Are true generally.

13:21

but then there's also room

13:23

for conversations about what ethical

13:25

pointed some some looks like

13:27

more that porn maybe point

13:29

and person isn't inherently harmful

13:31

and that people have really

13:34

healthy relationships, appearance and so

13:36

we get to talk about

13:38

perform. Yes,

13:40

mainstream porn has really disappointed all

13:42

of us and a lot of

13:45

ways and at the same time

13:47

you know it's not torn bad

13:49

or porn. confess. Bass and that's

13:51

been really cool. Yeah, Sure, because

13:53

there's a reason that like when we think

13:55

of mainstream porn like there's a reason that

13:57

it is made the way it's. Made. He.

14:00

Now like it is at the end

14:02

of the day, a business in a

14:04

capitalist society, you know they're gonna do

14:06

the thing that gets the most views

14:08

that gets in the most money whatever

14:11

x y z and like the of

14:13

for a young person going on the

14:15

internet and watching this site to be

14:17

able to like, give and then given

14:19

the tools of knowing that you know

14:22

are just knowing that like.is fantasy and

14:24

that is a performance and it isn't

14:26

actually about those people's pleasure, it's about

14:28

my pleasure as the viewer. You know,

14:31

but then also going to something

14:33

like an amateur site and know

14:35

when? Oh that actually.is. You

14:37

know about their pleasure and I'm going

14:39

to watch it. And that's one way

14:41

sex could look like you know and

14:43

knowing the difference between the two. Yeah,

14:46

oh importance that's why

14:48

I like the terminology

14:50

around. like porn literacy.

14:52

And media literacy is because

14:54

I think that were so

14:56

familiar are like increasingly familiar

14:58

with media literacy like. I love

15:01

Law and Order as the you

15:03

and I don't necessarily like love

15:05

caught like I can recognize that

15:07

it's propaganda and make decisions around

15:09

like whether or not like I

15:11

wanna consume that and like yeah

15:14

and it's kind of watch It

15:16

was like a critical eye and

15:18

I think that the same brief

15:20

a big should be applied to

15:22

porn. Yeah, It's so important. I mean

15:24

we we sometimes to says like viewers. And

15:27

I know I've always been because I want to

15:29

theaters call I've always this looks sort of taught

15:31

how to like, look at something and be like

15:33

how is it affecting me or like what are

15:35

they using and ordered to make me feel a

15:37

certain way and like what does the assessed on

15:39

me and a lot of people like don't think

15:41

like that when they watch read, listen to anything.

15:44

To. I i myself and some as i get less

15:46

that was in like the way you know like would

15:48

you like about his you know like how to make

15:51

you feel what do they do to make you feel

15:53

like that was defective? Yeah and that's why I will

15:55

say this is so random. never thought I would say

15:57

that hurts and just like that the sex of the

15:59

cities. I okay with like the

16:01

first Sunday so like everyone was suddenly becoming

16:04

like love tv critic. You

16:06

know, Steve auto around the will work and

16:08

saying this wasn't working? this isn't working and

16:10

I was like okay I'm sort of loving

16:12

this Like of a sudden we've got people

16:14

thinking critically about like Tv writings that I

16:16

never would have thought of. You know, Yeah,

16:19

say that novel that brought us all

16:21

together as. I

16:25

was begging for and if this is and

16:27

I was like well thank you for that. During

16:29

Star You. Can

16:31

I ask for either? Specific tenants

16:33

of porn literacy that you find

16:36

in those curriculum? Like other elements

16:38

of how you guide the students

16:40

around? like how to discern? Yeah,

16:42

so. I know it. We use

16:44

that guidelines for media literacy that

16:46

are given by costs and for

16:48

doing the name of the organization

16:50

that if something would. Be

16:53

organization for media literacy. And yeah, and

16:55

so we use of them burst through

16:57

how we can apply that to porn?

17:00

We. I've had a similar to what I was

17:02

saying. Like we did start out the

17:04

conversation with. As it would the students

17:06

were expecting with his they. Were in

17:09

ten Be. Invisible

17:12

hand really disturb your body

17:14

image. Can you know mess

17:17

with your understanding of would.

17:21

Look like said look like. And

17:23

then. Sort of pivoted to icing.

17:26

On food and recession may expecting

17:28

which is that there are really

17:31

really are alternatives mainstream porn and

17:33

there are maybe ways that you

17:35

wouldn't expect to be able to

17:37

support sex workers that you can

17:40

like. I think people are very

17:42

quick to condemn for in hub

17:44

but there are individual performers who

17:47

are making the both of their

17:49

money on porn have ah sir.

17:51

And they have the a verification practices and

17:53

place. That has changed like the last couple years.

17:55

Like how that came about for better or worse.

17:57

I think it's great that you have to verify.

18:00

They who you are before you post

18:02

contact is that in itself limits a

18:04

lot of the trafficking. like a lot

18:06

of the yeah pirated content. like if

18:08

you if it can be traced back

18:10

to you that like changed the game

18:12

as opposed to the is like anonymous

18:14

you know burnable eyepiece just like stealing

18:16

and sharing content like that stuff some

18:18

elements other and one it's yeah that's

18:20

a verified performer profile. You know you're

18:22

going straight to the source as best

18:24

he can not accounting for. The. Fees that

18:27

these web sites take which are outrageous but

18:29

that's a whole other thing is is yeah.

18:31

Not that are my top of. Processor

18:36

said. An instance

18:38

to stick up for everything.

18:40

but yet there is more

18:42

extravagant god like safe book

18:44

idly as and well yes.

18:47

Do. When are we do blame?

18:50

The big. Porn corporations like

18:52

that. Do we lose in

18:54

the process? And then I

18:56

also. That's a tough signed with for

18:58

I sent was really cool. I had

19:00

written my senior thesis, an undergrad on

19:03

whether or not porn addiction exist so

19:05

and I were specifically interested in that

19:07

topic because I felt like pretty universally

19:10

the sex educators I knew I had

19:12

been doing for said ah and undergrad.

19:15

All agreed on like everything and

19:17

this topic to seem to be

19:19

one of those things where it

19:21

is my most people agree that.

19:23

Porn addiction does not exist. But

19:26

I just couldn't really see the

19:28

why. and I also kind of

19:31

wondering why is it does when

19:33

we say that something doesn't exist

19:35

and people. Are still out there feeling

19:38

like they're struggling with him and service

19:40

ones like explore that like spend a

19:42

year like dedicated year to like exploring

19:44

and which was like a really see

19:46

process because it it ended up being

19:48

so different than I thought it was.

19:50

Gonna be a oh interesting how so so

19:52

I went into it kind of comparing. Porn

19:55

Addiction to odd dissociative

19:57

identity disorder and wow,

20:00

My with Multiple Personalities for

20:02

my multiple Personality disorder currently

20:04

Dissociative Identity Disorder. There's so

20:06

many people who. Understand themselves,

20:08

the have that. And then there

20:10

are all of these therapist psychologists.

20:12

I sciences saying that that doesn't

20:15

exist especially. Nowadays and south I felt

20:17

like on my for my own like

20:19

social media contact consumption, my out see

20:21

people on tic tac and an Instagram who

20:23

would say you know I have this

20:25

and the whole world is telling me

20:27

it's not real and not very harmful because

20:29

this is like how my trauma has

20:31

actual eyes itself in I've made a sauce

20:34

present in my life and soul. And

20:36

it's kind of thinking about that in the context of. Porn

20:39

addiction I think. and then.

20:42

I really started to read the

20:44

research. And started to

20:46

get a better understanding. Of

20:49

the fact that I think it's

20:51

a sign that a seven mental

20:53

Health Professionals to not believe porn

20:55

addiction is a real dick, Sam's

20:57

just getting a better understanding of

20:59

what is the word of Deaths

21:01

in means As interested former slaves

21:03

most behavioral addicts. Senza. what we

21:05

call behavioral it's at since. They're

21:07

not considered a Dixon's in the

21:09

Dsm. Yeah, except for. Gambling

21:12

enough because of it's

21:14

like proven similarities to.

21:17

Drug addiction? Yeah yeah. That seems

21:19

like food addiction and blessings like that. Like

21:21

those aren't consider the Texans. In

21:23

the Dsm, even though we might call

21:26

them that and so understanding. That and

21:28

this is really. Complicated. It's like

21:30

both Like this is the

21:33

goal reaction to use a

21:35

substance, but also like you're

21:37

perceived reliance on it. And

21:41

that can be complicated within itself. especially

21:43

when you look at all this data

21:45

around how people who are more religious

21:47

or have. Morals the don't align with

21:50

point and some sir are more inclined

21:52

to think that they're porn addict, even

21:54

surpassing the same amount of porn as

21:56

everyone else, right? It's because those the same

21:58

side up and to yeah I know it. Then

22:00

there's no way to remove like the

22:02

same as that of it and be

22:04

like without is objectively and be like.

22:07

is this addiction or not? Because. We're

22:09

always in a sex negative culture

22:12

that ray. Liotta. We did at all decided

22:14

to say porn is okay like and as that

22:16

was like what would people still identify as having

22:18

a Porter Dixon seen only on the and in

22:20

the act? yeah is that vacuum could it he

22:22

does it would say can't because it at night.

22:25

It's not like gambling were like you.

22:27

You know there is a actual negatives

22:30

like result of like losing money. Or

22:32

like your health like for like drinking or drugs.

22:34

Or. Something like I was like there's happily

22:36

gun that actual like confirms negative results.

22:38

Yes, the school there can be like

22:40

people can sort like can throw money.

22:43

At Porn Performers? A regular? Yeah, Like

22:45

Saxon the like where we point to like

22:47

addiction like this is addictive behavior For yards

22:49

like where do we distinguish like compulsive behavior

22:52

that like I've really fascinated by the star

22:54

at I had actually literally read your thesis

22:56

as he wanted to share s the idea

22:58

that a lot of time thinking about this

23:01

and it's something that we get like we

23:03

had up against like we observe guess it

23:05

on us of friends podcast and that was

23:07

with their classes there. Like is the hype

23:09

around young man's porn addiction like real or

23:12

overblown and we were like it's definitely overblown,

23:14

like porn as scapegoats. And it felt

23:16

like we were completely discounting that possibility of

23:18

an existing are like were that nuance exist

23:21

without. I ended up making like follow up.

23:23

tic Toc said he is talking about it

23:25

like like let's look at the consequences

23:27

let's look at the impulse. But the to

23:29

sort of defining factor for me is that

23:32

like people with quote unquote porn addiction have

23:34

an underlying issue like period like that as

23:36

V or majority. it's about anxiety composing depression.

23:39

It's about these other underlying issues and this

23:41

is how it manifests was his and that

23:43

gets nuance. It's a spectrum. I think

23:45

the like that's one of the

23:47

distinctions between like a more chemical

23:50

addiction like gambling or drugs. You

23:52

know, like have to and says

23:54

that like affects. The chemistry of your brain

23:56

beyond the things like they'll the mean I'm like what

23:58

porn to provide and a chemical. Rihanna?

24:00

Yeah, yeah, I think that

24:02

was. It. For me because

24:05

it is self like if I'm.

24:07

Looking at a person who is spending

24:09

money that. They don't want to

24:11

spend on a porn habit or

24:13

aren't. Spending time that they just can't.

24:16

Afford to be sending consuming porn

24:18

like who am I? Who am

24:20

I talk about person yards. There's

24:22

no visitors like. But

24:26

I'm I think the really cool

24:28

thing that I found in doing

24:30

that research. that was something I

24:33

thought to share with the Sudan.

24:35

Ah we're all of these anti

24:38

porn men's faces. Fascinating.

24:40

What a universe I like to

24:42

really? Explore and that the says

24:44

like the know Fab read it

24:46

to do drugs the idea to

24:48

be i get all that good

24:50

stuff and sitting through like what

24:52

their profit motives are or like

24:55

how this mirrors every other corner

24:57

of the internet where there's has

24:59

manic masculinity and it's really area

25:01

where there is there is there

25:03

a researcher on her like people

25:05

on Know Fab tend to also

25:07

be on like red pill credit

25:09

for hims a splitter done. Like

25:11

yes, hires So.

25:13

How can we not as I grab as a

25:16

circle with yeah it's just. So

25:19

how can we not say that We? yeah,

25:21

this is. this is like a byproduct of

25:23

toxic masculinity. And there's also

25:25

like a really cool space of the internet

25:27

of poor and that is like educational porn.

25:30

He. Now like educated we were

25:32

last and as you poor and

25:34

by afterglow sex school have this

25:37

one of our favorites. O

25:39

M G Yes. There's like

25:41

so many places. That were of the intersection

25:43

of like porn and sex education is actually sort

25:46

of for an amazing thing. An emerging

25:48

and like the I had community A

25:50

very generously like yeah providing that it's

25:52

like you shouldn't be responsible for Sex

25:54

said but exactly how ya Adam Power?

25:56

As I said like array. As for

25:58

this podcast is essentially about. Like we

26:00

are we real of in with a dick jokes and

26:02

we keep I'm here for the like these they could

26:04

as a send. The second part said he had our

26:06

yeah for sure I've yet the think there's like there's

26:08

a lot. Of ways that we learned. And I

26:10

think the visual aspect of such a huge

26:12

component. and I really do. Big banks like

26:15

my own growing up and unlike the

26:17

other are actually helpful. Things I learned

26:19

from foreign of course I probably absorbed

26:21

a lot of balls at the lake

26:23

is also call be really helpful thing

26:26

that I learned through watching that I

26:28

wouldn't learned any other way right? Totally

26:31

one requested for you and then will go

26:33

to a break. Tara I'm choices Usually what

26:35

your personal relationship is with porn currently I

26:37

if you consume as he has like a

26:39

way that you navigate the space as he

26:42

do they feel comfortable sharing. Yeah,

26:44

so I do consume

26:46

porn. I. Am

26:49

lucky enough that I have

26:51

worked with I think some

26:53

really cool ethical porn. Producers.

26:56

And the past I've gotten like

26:59

free access as large. As

27:03

ah so that's really

27:05

cool I think. Also,

27:07

I have Massoud twitter

27:09

porn person with of

27:11

definitely. I think

27:13

also. Be able to

27:15

sexuality professional actors his own might. Add

27:18

are now like there's a good

27:20

inner battle going on because you

27:22

do want to sell some level

27:24

of like assurance that yeah, these

27:26

people having these clips out there

27:28

intentionally and a lot of sex

27:30

workers do like a lot of

27:32

sex workers do You go to

27:34

virtually any sex workers Twitter a.

27:36

Small. Clips his picture as if

27:38

they're promoting. yeah yeah and my

27:40

brain is already set up for

27:42

a short for him video because

27:44

I'm us to talk all day

27:46

so I live like scroll down

27:48

and wasn't like I don't have

27:50

the attention span necessarily all the

27:52

time to was younger right? Oh

27:54

really does work for me and

27:56

I also really like for sure

27:58

the same aspect of it like

28:01

a for there's essays that I

28:03

trust and with we have the

28:05

same taste see I? yeah that's

28:07

so cool is that? I guess

28:09

this like diverse. Range. Of porn.

28:11

That's all porn that license and I

28:13

like. yeah. We used to. It's funny about

28:15

attention spans because ah the immense a that I

28:17

like notice that to also were like kind of

28:19

desensitize as like a test of it's a great

28:22

porn of last. I'm not thinking about the production

28:24

but we also like Cure Eight by Tabs. you

28:26

know like I'll be like okay so we'll start

28:28

with this was this is the main event. This

28:31

one is like that. There's a sort of bill.

28:33

Horn Horn Play liability. I would rather be

28:35

silent or a. Moose. booze is a lot like

28:37

something that might be like arousing but might not be

28:39

like were exactly what we want to be. watching it

28:41

like the peak well that that I'd put. I heard.

28:43

Fix for the answer is if you have a

28:45

video you know what I'm always like of have

28:48

never come back on all orgasm to this limbo

28:50

like almost. There are some banks of the i

28:52

want or leadoff I want to go into some

28:54

reason before he goes with a full. Meal yeah

28:56

or what have you as like I'll be like I'm

28:58

gonna get warmed up from like a twitter clip and

29:00

then I'm in like go into my mouth. Imagine a

29:03

Sir Alan and like my own I know the ins

29:05

and then like my fantasies a memories whenever you know,

29:07

like I love to do that. I want to

29:09

try that. I'm a hunter. Pretty I was. I will

29:11

think I would I lie raise. L E. I

29:13

love the idea that like maybe like be like

29:15

create a cel. I

29:17

love using my brain but yeah like that's

29:19

funny like fantasizing independently like I usually have

29:22

them separately gets either a poor night or

29:24

it's like of the imagination night say of

29:26

ideas like warming up and then being like

29:28

viewers like let my mind wander is great

29:30

especially because I when right before you go

29:32

to buy your brain is a few most

29:35

active. And creative so it's like

29:37

perfect. oh okay I'm under are

29:39

so like It's so funny where

29:41

you said a robot like. Kind.

29:43

Of differentiating porn for work

29:45

vs poured for to find

29:48

the a very important yeah

29:50

because I do So I'm

29:52

getting my certification my is

29:54

absurd station through casual Have

29:56

Lions I just did my

29:58

song. Yeah

30:02

no problem. Right now the Be A sex codes

30:04

are you going into sex educator? Going to did

30:06

a life as an educator but as they say

30:08

saw as a coach and consultant. Klinger coordinate. yeah

30:10

and they want to work with people and

30:13

relationship. yeah that's also the are known to

30:15

have sex and struck by an arm and

30:17

as did my sar and it was something

30:19

that I've been like looking forward to for

30:21

the longer. What I I knew that it

30:24

was I'm going to have a complicated emotions

30:26

about and I deathly was censored going into

30:28

it like two days. three of like watching.

30:31

Eight hours of porn I guess. Yeah, I

30:33

like a lot and I'm like him. I

30:35

can be like sitting here. Like Arouse

30:37

Museum room with like eighty people. like?

30:39

I don't know how that's gonna wear.

30:42

Like lean and biennale itemize it is that

30:44

much porn Mine summing up I hope as

30:47

I just like check out in be like

30:49

seen at all I think. As he said

30:51

now. That was the only thing I

30:53

didn't know is I had done conferences with

30:55

them before and you have said i think

30:58

it's like he should be on camera for

31:00

like fifty. We are you home Bees Sansa?

31:02

Yeah he heard this area take a few

31:04

days earlier than three minutes. They're gonna say

31:06

that messaging do you have to be where

31:08

you have to be president? yeah to be

31:11

watches? Yeah yeah which makes sense I would.

31:13

As for displaced why we have bars and

31:15

I thought of it overlooks overall really good

31:17

experience that it was a really interesting because

31:19

I know what I'm watching. porn. Was

31:21

that big of a group of people? It's.

31:24

Mostly going to be white people and

31:26

realistically and none of the porn I

31:28

watch personally has by people on it

31:30

sir. Now into my brain a break

31:33

from watching porn is gay people that

31:35

for work and. Hope

31:38

that for. A Fair. that's. Not

31:40

my for to him he as big. As.

31:43

The gear at a distinct and syncing was

31:45

yeah. right?

31:47

Let's take a break. it will to like a type of. A

31:49

video of work videos or the other side of

31:51

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back in the first see. we're

33:10

gonna talk about his from one

33:12

of our favorite amateur sites Mystery

33:14

and with had Polydor who runs

33:16

a story on the show were

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amateur couples or play

33:27

partners. And they've makes

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content and they posted on there

33:31

and they sometimes you little blogs

33:33

about the relationship and it's like

33:35

kind of a really amazing wait

33:37

to see like intimacy. And

33:40

if you're a fan of like Amateur

33:42

Sapphire, I highly recommend it. And.

33:44

This video is from Josh and

33:47

Easy and it's called a hotel

33:49

bathroom via and it proceeds to

33:51

be like a fall. The are

33:53

poor and just like in the

33:55

bathroom with like many individual sex

33:57

acts and like events yet happen

33:59

there. They are like one of the higher

34:01

ranking couples unless three. I sent a lot of

34:03

time. thinking. About why that

34:06

is trying to sort of like getting the

34:08

bottom of like was a lesser ya the

34:10

and play be looking for a like what

34:12

are these folks potentially doing that grabbing our

34:15

audience yeah aside from dislike se and yes

34:17

as the of content it all again or

34:19

anything about them in particular and like I'll

34:21

be honest I I kind of mixed feelings

34:24

about this year. it's like that kind of

34:26

slanted to talk about right as like I

34:28

think the oh and by we should say

34:30

that sometimes on our show we feature content

34:33

that's relatively like that I like we. Go

34:35

for the ethical side and then content

34:37

where we're like looking for the problem

34:39

areas. In this case we are relying

34:41

on to vetted platforms such as One

34:43

Way to discern are like one way

34:45

to trust that you're probably getting ethically

34:47

made contact. I always say probably because

34:49

there's always room without a there's always

34:51

eat ever now yeah but we really

34:53

trust or less. Three and Pink Label.

34:56

And. This one unless three yards so the

34:58

say the like sometimes stuff like totally heads

35:00

the There's elements of this I think a

35:02

really hot and. Areas. For I was

35:04

like okay I'm not sure if this is the how

35:06

I see. I was really into the studio. Great.

35:09

Breakdown of the here at our area:

35:11

what the area for your like I'm

35:13

not sure. Yeah. You go first

35:15

with what you love. All I do think

35:17

there's a lot to be like champion about

35:19

this. so I basically just for a quick

35:21

set up. it's them in a hotel bathroom

35:23

and like I'm a big fan of hotel

35:25

sex because I just think you can be

35:27

like as kinky as he was in a

35:29

hotel for some reason because you're like it's

35:31

not my home and it's mostly sour sacks

35:33

and it's you know, it's a blow job,

35:35

there's some golden shower, play those remaining and

35:37

then we get into some anal sauce and

35:39

she sort of perch up on this encounter

35:41

in a way that I thought was a

35:43

kind of like a gorgeous angle. and earlier

35:45

i saw it with like about like and

35:48

see how we get some anal and some

35:50

more like old and sour sauce and then

35:52

he finishes in while she's like got his

35:54

to her fingers in his ass and i

35:56

feel like i feel like i can understand

35:58

why this coupled as well and Lestrie because

36:01

I feel like they're, I mean, they're both

36:03

like attractive, but they are also so like

36:05

comfortable in their kinkiness, you know, like sometimes

36:07

I think when people think of like golden

36:10

showers or anything like that, they're going to

36:12

get, you know, some of like the

36:14

more like kink.com style stuff

36:16

where like someone's in like a latex like

36:18

gimp suit, you know, but like this is just

36:21

like two kind of cute nerdy Russians. And

36:23

he like pisses in her mouth, you know, like just in

36:25

the middle of like them having sex, which I really loved.

36:28

And also this couple does a lot of

36:30

ass play between the two of them, you

36:33

know, she rims him, she puts the fingers

36:35

in his ass. And I think it's

36:37

like comforting to watch like a, I don't

36:39

know, like what like a people would assume

36:41

like a heteronormative couple looks like just like

36:43

having a good fun time.

36:46

That was my first thought about

36:48

why they might be so popular.

36:50

I think yeah, play and also

36:52

that they're like subverting this heteronormative

36:55

expectation. Yeah. Yeah. And

36:57

I loved that element of it. And listen, I came

36:59

out of the gate like, as if

37:01

I hated this video or

37:03

something, it's more just like tiny personal preference

37:05

things. But I like but also because I

37:07

was examining I was like this, I don't know, maybe I just

37:09

held them up to the standard of like, they're doing really well.

37:12

Why is that? And I think it's a combination

37:14

of like, yes, it's super kinky play. And the

37:16

kinky play is just like fully incorporated in the

37:18

scene as opposed to being like, this

37:21

is just someone pissing in

37:23

a mouth for 20 minutes. Yeah. And

37:26

this is clearly just like part of how they play.

37:28

Yeah, I was like, I see like

37:31

she's keeping her glasses on. They're a

37:33

very petite white couple, you know, like there's

37:35

elements of this that like lean in the

37:37

mainstream that like isn't necessarily what I go

37:39

for. And like, I don't want to body

37:42

shame anybody. But I don't really I don't

37:44

gravitate to people this tiny and like feel

37:46

like, Oh, like they're so skinny, like that

37:48

are hungry. Yeah, yeah, like a little bit.

37:50

Like that's just like my own or

37:52

sort of preference is like there's something about that

37:54

that feels like it's meeting a standard, which isn't to

37:57

say that these aren't just like real people who happen

37:59

to look like. There also and

38:01

this is again just like personal

38:03

preference and speaks the lake the

38:06

evolution of my sex life. After

38:08

starting this podcast as like I

38:10

love. And Rachel I'm sure

38:12

you're on board with us. Feel like

38:14

talking about stuff and I love especially when

38:17

we're getting into kinky play When is like

38:19

would you fuck am I guess I test

38:21

in your mouth right now do you

38:23

like my dick in your ass like and

38:26

I love the hi can I say consensual

38:28

conversation and that negotiation so I actually love

38:30

seeing that and point I love seeing

38:32

like I want this and they were moments

38:34

when like see what kind of have like

38:37

a plastered smile before she was gonna like

38:39

take a load and or mouth that

38:41

felt performative. Like hundreds of me out of

38:43

that where I like I want to think

38:45

that you fucking want that has in your

38:47

mouth he i wanna think that you you

38:49

was that park all the way down the

38:51

back of your throat like I want to

38:53

see that and are elements of it Like

38:55

she was very like eager and like willing

38:57

but I was like maybe a vocal component

38:59

are just more of that Lake enthusiasm would

39:01

have drawn me and more centered on me.

39:03

like lost in a scene of like oh

39:05

fuck Lake and her having ideas like both

39:07

of them having ideas be like would this

39:09

be hard to you what about this or.

39:11

That being like more of that back and

39:14

forth and so again I'm wholly into a

39:16

high standard aura but I was like this

39:18

is a top cop Lawless three was the

39:20

galley or younger you I hear you I

39:23

will say knowing that they're in a close

39:25

relationship and actual couple me as the line

39:27

there's a sparring, they're just so yeah thing

39:30

you know yeah stamina and it's another I'm

39:32

are certainly as is it like a non

39:34

consensual first time I press on he said

39:36

sui of them says but yeah I just

39:39

really enjoy. Articulate?

39:41

Leah, It literally probably And yeah,

39:43

yeah, no, but I lay on

39:46

your point about I think that

39:48

there might be a lot more

39:50

room to experiment with what we

39:52

were talking about in terms of

39:54

like subverting and are much more

39:56

norm and were younger like the

39:59

way. Well, it would. I

40:01

think about why that might be so

40:03

popular. and then I also think about

40:05

like the way that people were just

40:07

increasingly talking about tagging within like the

40:09

law yes, C O or that it

40:11

says yeah thought so popular and even

40:13

s not one hundred percent of those

40:15

people were serious. Ah, I mean specifically

40:17

pegging in like the context of like

40:19

A says have relationships or even if

40:21

people were not have some serious, I

40:24

still feel like there was more room

40:26

to make those jokes. When you're

40:28

like a white person, when you're.

40:31

So yeah, no, I do think that's

40:33

interesting for her. For. Sure I

40:36

didn't really like the video on it did turn

40:38

me on I will say yeah it had listed

40:40

as a really high elements of their lake via

40:42

the anal especially I was like wow we're really

40:44

just slighted it like I said you was like

40:46

it was a process and certain ways I love

40:49

my lube like sort of the stuff what they

40:51

did that like saw of the others have no

40:53

no and like the way we warmed up the

40:55

ass like it was really like it had some

40:57

like really great production elements and was somehow like

40:59

well let's like he is this hotel bathroom you

41:01

know sounds like did you bring light as are

41:04

just like go to a good. Enough herself

41:06

as like light A specified.

41:08

It isn't it was all of her

41:10

on the thing is like so memorable

41:12

like about that I'd like wouldn't have

41:14

applied. Yeah see I had a

41:16

gorgeous. A Way yeah we consider.

41:19

I certainly don't have the ability or

41:21

faceted to do that. But like, good

41:23

for her ear now. yeah, my knees

41:26

are older now. Yeah, I'm. Like I

41:28

would break the. Same.

41:32

I was set out of I would hope. That

41:34

would be the goal of the seal or.

41:36

It's we talk about the other other videos. well. As

41:39

a skull the heads up from good really

41:42

saying as a doctor Kill Queen. She's.

41:44

From Good Vibrations and cofounder of

41:47

the Center for Sex and Culture

41:49

is so about how to like

41:51

does Had. Specifically. On

41:53

a phallus. and this is sort

41:55

of like of a sex ed

41:57

video in that style. Yeah, Immediately

42:00

a big fan of Carol Queen and

42:02

I was like, I love my weird

42:04

like a Molly Shannon SNL character She

42:07

absolutely felt like a parody character when

42:09

she whipped out the like giant it

42:12

looks like wood. Yes Okay,

42:19

like She she like

42:21

walks the line of like being your

42:23

like problematic aunt who like brings her

42:25

artifacts back from Indonesia But has like

42:27

great things to teach you about how

42:29

to suck a dick and like the

42:31

biggest dick I was like, did we

42:33

have to pick one like the size

42:35

of my torso for this conversation? Cuz

42:38

it's immediately intimidating, but I thought I

42:40

loved her like really Frank weird, like

42:43

Like and the thing about a cock

42:45

is like it was campy But it didn't

42:47

feel like she was actually judging the sex or what

42:49

she had to say, right? So it

42:51

had this like weird entertainment value where I was

42:53

like, yeah, yeah, dr. Carol Queen And

42:56

there was a cool sort of like

42:59

introductory like it was sort

43:01

of like backlit hallway Yeah of like

43:03

a head which I really Enjoyed

43:05

watching because it that mixed with like the

43:08

other like scene afterwards with like Mickey Mott

43:10

and Madison Young It's sort of like

43:12

seeing like I don't know just what looks like could

43:14

have been like maybe a couple or I don't

43:16

know It didn't seem like it was professionals Having

43:19

a hookup compared to like

43:21

the other one which was like very clearly like two

43:23

professionals Yeah, so I liked kind of like

43:25

that juxtaposition and I also just

43:27

like watch I'd love to watch someone who like

43:29

is clearly giving head Yeah, and is incredible at

43:31

it like all these low jobs really were like

43:33

I was like, yeah need to dust off my

43:35

game You know like that Like

43:39

fuck like look at that technique, you know,

43:41

it's like really impressive

43:43

and like Committed and dedicated and like

43:45

enthusiastic and you could hear like I

43:47

did I really loved that first scene

43:50

Yeah, where we could see like Just

43:52

enough like a sort of silhouetted we've got

43:55

like angles from above. Yeah, but it's like

43:57

kind of opaque You know, it gets kind

43:59

of scary but we're getting

44:01

the key details. We're hearing them, it

44:03

enhances the audio component of it. I

44:05

thought that was really hot. And

44:08

yeah, I always love to watch Mickey Mudd get a

44:10

stick-thon. I know. And then he's one

44:12

of our favorite performers of all time. So

44:15

yeah, so I was really happy to see

44:18

a familiar face. Yeah, I

44:20

didn't realize he was in it. I was like, Mickey! Mickey

44:22

Mudd. I feel like what was

44:25

cool about it is that I

44:27

felt like because it was educational,

44:29

that they had performers do a variety of

44:32

things when it came to fucking dick. It

44:34

was like, oh, she's licking his balls and

44:36

now she's back on the head and now

44:38

she's using her hands and now she's got

44:40

her hands behind her back. And it was

44:42

like, things were moving pretty quickly, but it

44:45

kind of, I think it worked

44:47

because it's like, oh, those are all things

44:49

that I could watch and I could incorporate.

44:51

Right, right. Yeah, she was doing all the

44:53

tricks for sure. All the stuff. The thing that

44:55

I didn't really like about this video was

44:57

the little snippet of the other

44:59

people's talking about their experience giving

45:01

head. I didn't like that

45:03

girl who was sort of talking about, he

45:06

was a geek and his dick tasted, or

45:08

his cum tasted like how a geek's cum

45:11

would taste. He only eats food that slides under a

45:13

door. And I was like, oh, this is a little

45:16

negative. You know, and a little dirty. I

45:19

liked that there were, I liked that it suddenly

45:21

felt like the vagina monologues and we've got these

45:23

talking heads or it's like when Harry met Sally

45:25

and they're like, well, the first time I gave

45:27

head, I was like, that's kind of a fun

45:29

thing to pepper in, but I agree that when

45:31

she was like, and then it took, I was

45:33

determined that he's a geek and all that, I

45:36

guess it's helpful to see that I

45:39

would want commentary on that. To be

45:41

like, there's no such thing as geek

45:43

spooge, but

45:45

that was that person's experience, just to

45:47

sort of modify the judgment in it,

45:49

or educating, because you don't want people

45:52

to watch that video and then be like, oh no, what's

45:54

the spooge gonna taste like? Or like, oh

45:56

no, am I a, am I a geek spooge? You

45:58

know, like just a little. Though bit like weird

46:00

fear mongering despite the middle of saw the there

46:02

was other a specific strange video. That way it

46:04

was kind of like so many different things can

46:06

have fostered yeah other. Yeah

46:09

and I did Like and I have the yeah I'll

46:11

always love to see. Mickey in any

46:13

porn I watch. Yeah, But.

46:15

I liked. I mean I liked both. I will say like Johnson

46:17

A the I think. It'll have a more for

46:19

me. Personally, Air Fare. Yeah,

46:21

I ride or die from a he month

46:23

so I honestly think that every mod with

46:26

my favorite yeah yeah. Yeah, it

46:28

was a was like and ah like

46:30

both of those scenes of dislike. Third,

46:32

really dedicated like blow jobs I would

46:34

like. yeah I could come back to

46:36

this pressure like I am a someone

46:39

who is a giver like I do

46:41

like to guess selling I am someone

46:43

that enjoys that and like will find

46:45

that arousing. So yeah it. Was

46:48

people who enjoy to go to that feeling

46:50

for the longest time. like especially growing up.

46:52

There is is kind of like weather and

46:55

I like to give with base our bikes

46:57

for conversation but I'm happy with my friends

46:59

moment in a life for Devon. Muslim didn't

47:01

like that net doing that then. I

47:05

got older i did release it

47:07

says there was a more utter

47:09

now of was a tool Pleasure

47:11

seems I'm getting pleasure from your

47:13

pleasure type of thing that him

47:16

in in those more long. Term

47:18

relationship and it's like they're really changed my

47:20

perspective Fact as and of wish we could

47:22

all get more examples of when it looks

47:24

like to. I enjoy. Doing.

47:26

Had. A and not get your head

47:28

post or not. He knows how to use. Yeah,

47:30

like I when I was first

47:32

washing, foreign more and like the

47:34

mainstream free space. like the aggregate

47:36

space. I would skip the

47:39

blow jobs because it was so much about like

47:41

that show thing in the crying and like he

47:43

was really hard to tell like it was rare.

47:45

would you be like i think see like suing

47:47

the sir he likes like it be nicer to

47:49

watch like a game and give had been the

47:51

like holy shit like with the he's doing his

47:53

influence but like these both really felt like yes.

47:56

People. wanting to suck that

47:58

they're like really like in enjoying it,

48:00

like really enjoying all the elements of

48:03

it and like sort of stepping up to that challenge,

48:05

you know, rather than being like, you're

48:07

being mouth fucked and are you okay? Yeah,

48:10

totally. Yeah, then even

48:12

the clip about getting

48:14

your face fucked. And

48:17

I honestly really enjoyed that because I

48:19

tend to think about getting your face

48:22

fucked in like a negative way. Like,

48:24

okay, this is yeah, I feel whatever.

48:26

Like I'm just used for my mouth

48:28

and whatever. But then when she

48:31

was talking about it, I was like, yeah, it is

48:33

actually kind of nice because I don't really have to

48:35

do as much work like I can

48:37

just kind of enjoy that process.

48:40

And I was like, yeah, yeah, it is

48:42

just interesting how your feelings about certain acts

48:44

can change based on like who's talking about

48:47

them and how they're talking about them. Yeah,

48:49

you're right. Like you've got a point. This isn't

48:52

actually as bad as I thought it was. Yeah,

48:55

yeah. Yeah, like all

48:57

in all, not necessarily something I

48:59

would like go to for masturbation

49:01

altogether. Although

49:04

like there's elements of it that I'm like, I

49:06

would just watch that 10 minutes and like touch

49:08

myself. But like net

49:10

positive, I would say on this one, you know,

49:13

for sure, for sure. Tara,

49:16

thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank

49:18

you all so much for having me. This has honestly been

49:20

so fun. Like, I'm upset. Oh,

49:23

good. How did you? Thanks for

49:25

everything. Great insight. Yeah. And

49:28

where can our listeners like find you

49:30

and follow you? Yeah. So

49:32

I'm on Instagram at your ex girlfriend,

49:34

Tara. Our organization is at the expert

49:37

program with an E with a three

49:39

for the E. Sure.

49:41

Because Instagram has Instagram, right? Yep.

49:44

And our website is under construction right now. But

49:46

when it is back up, it's the expert program.org.

49:49

Amazing. Genuinely, if you want to

49:51

send your thesis to our

49:53

email, I would love to read it.

49:55

I feel like I've changed my perspective

49:57

on something, but it's I think. definitely

50:00

some cool information about. Yeah. I also if

50:02

you haven't already I think I forgot to

50:04

mention this I would check out Nicole Prouse.

50:06

She's a really cool researcher. Yeah. Oh

50:09

amazing. Yeah familiar. Yeah that's a great shout

50:11

out. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much again.

50:14

And thank you all for listening to Girls

50:18

on Porn. I'm like forgetting the outro.

50:20

You can find us on

50:23

Instagram and TikTok at Girls on Porn.

50:25

That's porn with Altheo on our website

50:27

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50:29

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50:31

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50:33

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50:35

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