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the love of home. Welcome

1:05

to this episode of Gone Medieval. I'm Matt

1:07

Lewis. We remain slightly obsessed with Vikings, particularly

1:09

here on Gone Medieval. The

1:12

word alone conjures up for us a

1:14

world of violence, of mead and most

1:16

often beards. But it's also an age

1:18

of intrepid travel. David

1:20

Zorrie is Associate Professor of History

1:22

and Archaeology at Bailore University and

1:24

his new book, The Wonderfully titled

1:27

Age of Wolf and Wind, Voyages

1:29

Through the Viking World, brings together

1:31

current techniques across disciplines to try

1:33

and clarify our image of the

1:35

Viking Age. Welcome

1:40

to Gone Medieval, David. Thank you for having me. Pleasure

1:43

to have you here. I always love talking about Vikings,

1:45

so any excuse to talk about Vikings and your book

1:47

title is absolutely spot on. It sounds incredible. So hopefully

1:49

it will already be making people want to go out

1:51

and buy the book. In the

1:54

book, you draw on different disciplines,

1:56

so archaeology, science and the text

1:58

that we have. important

2:00

was it for you to work across

2:02

all of those disciplines and to weave

2:05

them together? It was fundamentally important. The

2:07

Viking Age, like any predo-historic period in

2:09

my opinion, requires or calls out for

2:11

us to use all the available datasets

2:14

to tell stories about the past. That's

2:17

what I seek to do. So

2:19

the study of the Vikings has

2:21

been, from the beginning, sort of

2:23

dominated by texts available to us. And

2:25

now, with new archaeological techniques and

2:27

new scientific analyses available, we can really expand

2:29

everything that we thought we knew about the

2:32

Vikings. It seems like a really good time

2:34

to be a Viking historian at the moment.

2:36

There's so much new stuff and new techniques

2:38

that are uncovering and unlocking all sorts of

2:40

other things. It must be a great age

2:42

to work in this field. I love the

2:44

field. I find it so exciting, the knowledge

2:46

that we're gaining. Every field sees

2:48

new information, comes in new

2:50

objects, new relic landscapes that

2:52

we can analyse and juxtapose

2:54

with what we thought we

2:56

knew based on the texts,

2:59

and also subject those materials

3:01

and those landscapes to scientific

3:03

analysis, everything from surveys with

3:05

LiDAR and different geophysics equipment

3:07

that's becoming a build to

3:09

us at reasonable costs. And

3:11

so, in my mind, we

3:13

have independent datasets now from

3:15

texts, from archaeology, from science.

3:18

They each have their own new

3:20

disciplinary issues and need to

3:22

be approached critically. But when you

3:24

juxtapose those different views into the past,

3:26

you can start to check one against

3:28

the other. And you can let them

3:31

correspond. You can let them build on

3:33

each other. You can scaffold them to

3:35

tell really fascinating narratives that are fine-tuned

3:37

in a way that they weren't possible

3:39

to draw, you know, a decade or

3:41

two ago. You talk in the

3:44

book about the three C's that you

3:46

try to explore. Can you tell us

3:48

a little bit about those, please? Yes,

3:50

the three C's. These are the new

3:52

arenas for analysis that emerge when these

3:54

datasets are juxtaposed. So, in a sense,

3:56

they are the entanglement of the encounters

3:58

between our data sets. data that result

4:00

when we put them together. It's challenging.

4:03

But if you think of these potential

4:05

agreements, and there are other ways to

4:07

look at it, but the way that

4:09

I approach it is these data sets

4:11

could affirm each other. That is, we

4:14

excavate something that confirms what we thought

4:16

we knew through the texts. That's always

4:18

gratifying, and that's probably the oldest of

4:20

the attempts to let these data sets

4:22

work together. In the antiquarian period across

4:24

the Viking world, people would take their

4:27

texts, whether they're sagas or the Anglo-Sachin

4:29

Chronicle, and they'd go dig a hole somewhere.

4:31

They found something, a burial mound. It must

4:33

be the burial mound of this particular hero. If

4:36

they dug it at someone's farmstead and they

4:38

found a house, it must be the house

4:40

of that soggy hero. It's not that easy,

4:42

of course, so many mistakes were

4:44

made. That said, with more care, we

4:46

can seek confirmation. That's the first seek,

4:48

confirmation. The second seek is contradiction. When

4:51

we think we know something, and then

4:53

we dig or we do some scientific

4:55

analysis, listen, we find that that was

4:57

not true. That sends us

4:59

back to look at the text again. Maybe

5:02

we read them wrong. Maybe the author means

5:04

to tell us something that is propaganda, and

5:06

then we need to work through the text

5:08

again. It sends us back to the scaffold. Then

5:11

the third seek is complementarity. This

5:13

is probably the most gratified for

5:15

me, is when each of these

5:17

windows into the past from the

5:20

sources, from the archaeology, and from

5:22

scientific analysis tell stories that don't

5:24

contradict each other, they don't necessarily

5:26

directly confirm each other, but

5:28

they allow a new story to develop,

5:30

allow us to see a broader picture or

5:33

more nuance at local levels across the Viking

5:35

world. Yeah, so the complementarity is kind of

5:37

like opening the curtains a bit wider on

5:39

the window, gives you a broader view, a

5:41

better insight into what's going on

5:43

outside. Yeah, it's when the new

5:45

sciences of the archaeology has those

5:47

questioned sources in a different way,

5:50

or maybe reveals sites or aspects

5:52

of the Viking world that were

5:54

unknown through the texts. And then

5:56

we go back to the text

5:58

and why are these apps... So,

6:00

for instance, something very new in the

6:02

20th century was the discovery of the

6:05

Trelleborg fort system in Denmark. These

6:07

forts, which represent the biggest public

6:09

works program in the Viking Age

6:12

and it ties in with the

6:14

formation of the state of Denmark.

6:16

These are very intricately planned, very

6:18

large forts across the Danish landscape.

6:21

Round that roads oriented with the

6:24

cardinal directions and they're all

6:26

laid out with the same mathematical

6:28

precision. They're unmentioned in the

6:30

text. The no text still runs down as

6:32

that discuss these forts. They're not the biggest

6:35

public works project in all of the Viking

6:37

Age. So why are they ignored in the

6:39

text? So this sends us back

6:41

to look at those texts. Then we've now

6:43

done scientific analysis of the people buried within

6:46

the forts, for instance. And we

6:48

see that at least a good number of

6:50

them might not be native Danish. So this

6:52

fort system in Denmark, this tide of war

6:54

power, there are people, warriors coming from outside

6:57

of Denmark living in these forts. We

6:59

haven't resolved every question about this fort system.

7:01

This is exactly what we're looking for. So

7:04

just to go back, if you want

7:06

to reinterpret the text for this particular

7:08

fort system, you do have some mentions

7:11

of really hard work that the king

7:13

at the time, Harold Bluetooth, put the

7:15

Danes to. And

7:17

one of those jobs was hauling a large rock

7:19

to yelling, which was his capo. It

7:21

was always kind of a weird story. Why

7:23

are they hauling a rock up to yelling

7:25

and really upset about it? Now, there is

7:27

a large room stone yelling, which this king

7:29

sets up, claims that he united all the

7:31

Danes and made them Christian. People

7:34

are sometimes connected to that. Maybe

7:36

it's a symbol of the hard work

7:39

that he made the Danes do, even

7:41

beyond this new unprecedented

7:44

public works system that required all

7:46

the labor of the people from

7:48

across the Nashid state. And

7:51

we know that Harold Bluetooth was

7:53

overthrown in the rebellion from his

7:56

site. So perhaps part of

7:58

the loss in history about these for

8:00

instance, is that the

8:02

next kings would rather downplay what happened

8:05

under this ruler. So it's not necessarily

8:07

the right answer, but it allows these

8:09

new questions of the texts that I'm

8:11

really enjoying in part of. That's what

8:13

I seek to sort of achieve in

8:16

each of the chapters of the book,

8:18

is to look in great detail at

8:20

case studies that I think are significant

8:22

for understanding the Viking world. So

8:25

I intend it to work as

8:27

an introduction to the Vikings, but

8:30

really also dive into the individual

8:32

data from these three separate disciplines

8:35

of history, archaeology and the heart

8:37

sciences. Fantastic. And

8:39

the first element that you address is

8:41

Viking voyages. So what were you able

8:43

to glean from using this approach about

8:45

the Viking voyages? Do we see kind

8:47

of any pattern to it or a

8:49

plan for expansion, or is it much

8:52

more random as they go raiding all

8:54

over the place? We do see

8:56

patterns, and that's one of the main things that

8:58

the book looks for. Patterns of information

9:00

gathering and then reactions. So

9:03

as you move beyond your homelands,

9:05

which is what characterizes to me

9:07

the Viking age is at an

9:09

unprecedented scale in Scandinavian history. People

9:11

are moving beyond their native shores

9:13

to do various things on those

9:15

voyages. So first you need to

9:18

know what's out there. So there's

9:20

a phase of discovery where you're

9:22

gathering information. We know

9:24

from the texts, sometimes when the Vikings

9:26

will return from these voyages, they'll be blamed for

9:28

not being curious. You know, you get to this

9:30

new land where you didn't explore. This happens, for

9:33

instance, in Finland. The first discoverer

9:35

of a new world, and we return to

9:37

Greenland, and people sort of make fun of

9:39

him for not exploring. This

9:41

is the second phase, I'd say, is

9:43

an exploration. And then in the third

9:45

phase, you can then start exporting, and

9:47

that exploitation can take many forms. In

9:50

my mind, the Vikings put essential opportunists,

9:53

and so they might raid. If they

9:55

encounter, let's say, a lot of wealth,

9:57

perhaps not protected very well. are

10:00

a great example. They're not occupied by the

10:02

world's greatest warriors and they're often

10:04

living in isolation. And they've got a lot of wealth

10:07

because Western Christianity's funneled a ton of wealth

10:09

into these modest things. So raiding there is

10:11

a good option. In the North Atlantic there's

10:13

no one to raid so they get to

10:15

Iceland about a hundred years into the Viking

10:17

Age and there's a vast

10:19

open landscape in Iceland that is not

10:22

settled and they take advantage of that.

10:24

And then there's trade. So when they're

10:27

going east they pretty quickly settle

10:29

on trade being the main lucrative

10:31

opportunity for them in the east

10:33

and they're moving up and down

10:35

the rivers of Russian, Ukraine, and

10:37

the Nipper and the Volga down

10:39

into these large state-level societies in

10:42

the Caliphate of Baghdad and Byzantium.

10:44

When they encounter that kind of

10:46

power and trade is a better

10:48

option. So the book does also

10:51

focus quite heavily on the Viking presence

10:53

in Britain. Does this multi-disciplinary

10:55

approach tell us new things about that

10:57

presence? For example, does it help us

10:59

determine between where they're raiding, where they're

11:02

trading, and where they're settling? Yes.

11:04

Britain's a good example of a place

11:06

where we thought we knew pretty well

11:08

how this went down and that's because

11:11

there are some very good texts. The

11:13

Anglo-Saxon chronicles, the most important has been

11:15

the most dominant. And there are also

11:17

very good letters written between clergy, some

11:20

good texts from archives in those churches.

11:22

The Anglo-Saxon chronicle goes year by year

11:24

and it reads like this ought to

11:26

be true. And the logics has been

11:28

very useful. It's provided those two dates

11:31

that people used to bracket the Viking

11:33

interest. 793 is the beginning, 1066 is

11:35

the end, and it's not

11:38

that easy. So what archaeology and science

11:40

has done is compliment more than anything

11:42

else what we thought we knew from

11:44

the texts and has started to resolve

11:47

some of these old questions. One quick

11:49

example is for instance the size of

11:51

the Viking Great Arc which trumps around

11:54

in England in the middle of the

11:56

9th century. And the chronicle says they

11:58

overwinter in different places. And

12:00

the numbers given have been suspicious. So

12:02

one debate is, well, how many Vikings

12:05

were they really at? So that's a

12:07

pretty big question because that's in the

12:09

footprint of 100 guys versus 10,000. There's

12:13

substantial. It's only with

12:15

the archaeology that we've been able to

12:17

test that. So the

12:19

first in the Viking encampments to

12:21

be discovered archaeologically is erected. The

12:24

fort there wasn't representative, really. The

12:26

camp was much larger than that. Now

12:29

a few other camps have been discovered,

12:31

and we're seeing that these are sort

12:33

of moving towns almost that are interacting

12:36

with the local community in ways that

12:38

we did not guess based on sources.

12:40

There's a lot of trade going on.

12:43

These camps, they're not just matinee,

12:45

they have families with them. And

12:47

so we're seeing the interactions the

12:49

Scandinavians had with the local community

12:51

come to life. And it humanizes

12:53

it in a different way. And

12:55

archaeology is good at that in

12:57

giving us insights into the individuals

12:59

that aren't addressed in the sources which focus

13:02

on the big met and the leiters.

13:04

It feels to me as well that the further

13:07

these studies go, the less

13:09

our view of the Viking Age is

13:11

one of pure violence. It does

13:13

seem to be much more of a focus

13:15

on trading and settling than we previously allowed

13:17

for with just the violent invaders who turn

13:19

up, steal everything, and run away again. This

13:22

was one of the first directives

13:24

that archaeology offered. And perhaps we

13:26

let it over correctly, but when

13:28

archaeological things started really focusing on

13:30

urban centers and the impact of

13:33

the Vikings was understood in Ireland

13:35

and England and also in Russia

13:37

and Ukraine, they look productive. They

13:39

look like they are catalysts for

13:41

interregional trade, and they're doing craftwork,

13:43

and they're minting coins in limitation

13:46

of usually the area they have

13:48

settled in. And the peaceful Viking

13:50

was stressed for a while in the productive

13:52

one. That probably

13:54

swung a little too far towards the

13:56

peaceful Vikings. I think it's worth remembering

13:59

that these are very violent. folks and

14:01

their ideological system was also set up

14:03

to scaffold that. Violence. I

14:06

mean sometimes a question is asked, you

14:08

know, well, are they really more violent

14:10

than anybody else in this contemporary period?

14:12

And maybe not, but they're definitely not

14:14

less violent. And so I'm happy that

14:16

we're now also looking at aspects of

14:18

the culture, the swing of pendulum back

14:20

to the violence. You know, it's also

14:22

worth remembering that this interregional trade was

14:24

based to a large extent on human

14:27

traffic. It was slaves that they were

14:29

selling to especially kind of large polities

14:31

like in Byzantium and Caliph in Baghdad

14:33

for sober. And a lot of those

14:35

early efforts that we talked about, you

14:38

know, whether they're rating or trading or

14:40

settling DAG and be productive, most of

14:42

those efforts are about bringing wealth back

14:44

to Scandinavia and propping up, investing it

14:47

in the political economy, investing

14:49

in gift giving, throwing lavish feasts,

14:52

or in purchasing mates back home.

14:54

The flow of wealth is also

14:56

an important aspect of the aid

14:58

to flow wealth back into Scandinavia

15:00

that fuels the political development of

15:02

the time. And

15:04

you mentioned the ideological culture of

15:06

the Vikings just then. One of

15:08

the things you addressed in the

15:10

book is the process of Christianization

15:13

and the impact that that has,

15:15

the move from paganism to Christianity.

15:17

What do you find that that meant for

15:19

Viking society and for wider European

15:22

society? Because their change to Christianity

15:24

must have impacted their neighbors and

15:27

the broader European polity too. It's

15:29

a profound shift and it's hard

15:31

to separate sometimes the effects of

15:34

Christianity from the other major changes that

15:37

are happening in the Viking Age. I

15:39

mean, this is a time where everything

15:41

is changing in Scandinavia. You

15:43

move from the pre-Christian pagan

15:46

ritual system, religion, to

15:48

Christianity, changes the worldview. You're

15:51

moving from a political system where

15:53

you had chiefs in the anthropological

15:56

sense that men inherit status but

15:58

don't have a monopoly. force,

16:00

two state-level societies run

16:02

by kings, modeled

16:04

on a Western European standard, and

16:07

you have a shift in economics

16:10

and in settlement pattern that

16:12

results in the first cities,

16:14

first towns in Scandinavia. All

16:16

those things are wrapped up together, but Christianity

16:18

has a huge impact in that, in

16:21

drawing Scandinavia into Christianity, the Christian

16:23

part of Europe. So it changes

16:25

the way that they're interacting with

16:27

the landscape. Christianity changes the way

16:29

that they are engaging in politics,

16:31

and it changes what they believe.

16:34

Even in the Viking Age, some of the writers,

16:36

Adam and Brandon as one of them, says that

16:38

the arrival of Christianity is what made them stop

16:40

raiding. I think that might be going a little

16:43

far. I will be male Christian, you're violent to

16:45

each other in the 6'2", but is it part

16:47

of the explanation? Perhaps. Yeah,

16:49

I guess because medieval Christianity always teaches you shouldn't

16:51

attack other Christians. Yeah, I

16:53

think it makes them pause, perhaps a

16:56

little more. Viking attacks definitely dealt a

16:58

cease. This goes back to Britain, just

17:00

as an example. You can see a

17:03

shift in what kind of violence they

17:05

deal out, but even after conversion, they're

17:07

still invading Britain, so that we might

17:10

be able to divide into four phases

17:12

of Viking activity in Britain. It starts

17:14

with these seasonal raids, where they

17:16

gather a bit of information, they show up on

17:19

the coast, hit and run tactics, and they go

17:21

back to the end of the raiding season, it

17:23

says Scandinavia is something, they harvest their crops, but

17:25

they got added wealth. And phase two

17:27

might be multi-year campaigns, where you start

17:29

to see them set up bases, whether

17:32

that be up in the northern halls,

17:34

go to Scotland, to the Hebrides, the

17:36

North East, or closer

17:38

at hand, especially on the

17:41

side of the English Channel. Then

17:43

phase three, we have multi-year campaigns, where

17:46

people are moving around the landscape and

17:48

being much more presence in the Viking

17:50

Great Army, it would count as that.

17:54

In phase four, you could think

17:56

of as loyal invasions from

17:58

Scandinavia. Nudes, who are

18:01

probably our quintessential example, but also

18:03

his son Sven Fortbeard, and

18:05

also from Norway, teams are doing this. So

18:07

Harald the Horned ruler, Harald the Horned Ravi

18:10

in 1066 tries to knock him into two.

18:12

They were Christians. So Harald the hard ruler,

18:15

and the Greek, and the fort beards, they're

18:17

all Christians. So it doesn't stop them from

18:19

invading. But the way they act when they

18:21

do take over interacts with Christianity.

18:23

And it's very pious in the sense that

18:25

they give to the church and they're allied

18:27

with the church. Nude the

18:30

Great goes to Rome on a

18:32

pilgrimage and helps during the coronation

18:34

of the Holy Roman Emperor. So

18:36

it draws in Scandinavian rulers into

18:38

Christianity in a way that transforms

18:41

not just the relationship that they

18:43

have with other European polities, peoples,

18:46

but also the way they deal with

18:48

their own subjects. And

18:50

I think it's hard to say exactly

18:52

how big of an impact Christianity itself

18:54

had on us, but I think what

18:57

causes in a way the end of

18:59

the Viking Age is that wealth extraction

19:01

for the leaders in Scandinavia ceases to

19:03

depend on stealing wealth or

19:06

extracting wealth by tribute or tax

19:08

of people outside of Scandinavia. And

19:10

it refocuses on the wealth that

19:12

can generate it from control of

19:14

your own nation. And

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where every. As

21:42

the Vikings begin to change the smaller

21:44

petty kingdoms into much larger, solid nation

21:46

states will buy a king. do we

21:48

get a sense from the text, but

21:50

also from the archaeology and the science

21:52

of how that changes the Viking notion

21:54

of themselves and the way that they

21:57

interact with the world around them. Is

21:59

assisting. Being nice Almost no

22:01

magic raiders. Does it change who

22:03

they consider themselves to be? It.

22:06

Does I think that one of the

22:09

most fascinating it's in the By Creates

22:11

is that period of transition from pre

22:13

Christian belief systems, world views to the

22:15

Christian wealthy. Programmed. You read

22:17

the text to conceal very media it

22:20

it sounds I got an accent. sounds

22:22

like this is the moment of crist

22:24

as asian every fighting suddenly converted him

22:27

one day set it as just not

22:29

how it will hurt sites. I think

22:31

this period and conversion fifty hundred years

22:33

right where we see had pretty and

22:36

synchronization between the ritual systems and in

22:38

the artwork and it must also reflect

22:40

the tension in people's minds as a

22:43

coming to terms with this new ideological

22:45

system which allowed times is. Takedown?

22:47

of course it must be. and

22:49

we know that there are some

22:52

bottom. What types of conversion moments

22:54

and prophecies Are people exposed to

22:56

christianity? Broad? Come back. There are

22:58

German missionaries, an English missionaries going

23:01

over and building churches and tried

23:03

to talk the scanned a about

23:05

christianity. The top down conversion is

23:08

what we see mostly in the

23:10

texts. Saudi to do instantly than

23:12

instead of burying on the outskirts

23:15

of your land and amount. To

23:17

you then go to burying without many

23:19

great goods inside of a church or

23:21

next to a church shard that might

23:24

be located in the town. Some.

23:26

Burying where you live is also take change

23:28

and sometimes it looks like I'm very rapid

23:30

shit. Part of it is that was already

23:33

a little bit of influence of Christian before

23:35

said they had tone down some of the

23:37

great goods for instance if they were putting

23:39

them to create. But. The graves

23:41

I really like. we're seeing these and

23:44

archaeology. The was a find the most

23:46

fascinating on the ones that seem to

23:48

be hedging their bets. Sire was part

23:50

of an excavation for many years. We

23:52

found these gloves in at Version. They're

23:54

a small church on the farmstead and

23:56

they're not twenty five grades and five

23:58

of them how objects and. That don't

24:00

make sense for Christian Grapes. their hardware

24:02

their rebut so clinched both that are

24:05

the type of object that new signed

24:07

in boats or ships. And. There

24:09

are placed on top of the grades

24:11

of these individuals and we came to

24:13

realize that these are parts of books

24:16

on top of the bodies. Someone.

24:18

here. but parts about summit mean the

24:20

boat as a symbol transport to the

24:22

next world. the world of the afterlife

24:25

in Scandinavia as a while now. idea

24:27

from the viking age. That.

24:29

Had great importance for them and

24:31

I say that these five Barrios

24:33

right after Christmas A says that

24:35

you can a well, we're Christians

24:37

for not totally giving his ideas

24:40

in Paganism and sometimes even see

24:42

backlash. know, maybe even resistance. South

24:44

thirty meters away from this early

24:46

grave yard in Iceland were found

24:48

a cremation which is due for

24:50

not a christian and the date

24:52

of that cremation is about thirty

24:54

years after the first Christian burial,

24:56

which means this community is multifaith.

24:59

I. Don't waste represented as multi faith

25:01

in this is the form Stand in

25:03

Iceland the chieftain swamps that in Iceland

25:05

southwest A nice that such six. When

25:07

you start asking questions of this you

25:09

start thinking what is this person buried

25:11

over here in the plaque as an

25:13

adult male. Was. Is a grumpy

25:15

old grandpa you know when I'm to

25:17

go out and pagan style or was

25:20

the sad, peaceful, multifaith sweetie. There are

25:22

many personal stories that you might imagine

25:24

that are to get at Ces. from

25:26

archaeology. And. And this is not

25:28

just in the boondocks, the biting world

25:30

where there isn't any will control. let's

25:32

say because I since conversion in the

25:34

year thousand bucks third different from the

25:36

converge she places that have the monarchy

25:38

established like Denmark and Norway. So.

25:41

If we look at those Trelleborg forts

25:43

and which were a royal building programme

25:45

largest public works programming the biting well.

25:48

They're. Graveyards associated with them. And

25:51

one of those foods pulled circuit

25:53

has a tremendous taking grave very

25:55

new wagging card. It's probably a

25:57

serious woman who had some ritual

25:59

role. And was buried with incredible

26:01

amount of well in a paid in

26:04

fashion. Definitely not a Christian Richard specialist,

26:06

but a pre Christian Ritual specialist. So.

26:08

What is she doing? Buried

26:11

in one of Harold Bluetooth

26:13

main. Construction. Works. At.

26:15

Also. Multi faith communities. even though

26:17

he says I made the Danes Chris

26:19

a killer people living in the answer

26:21

for it's that is setting up to

26:23

dominate the landscape and protectors nash at

26:26

state are still practiced. Some things. That

26:28

feels like a really good example of the

26:30

complementarity day way you've got the idea that.

26:33

Guess. The Vikings were Christianized but

26:35

Harold British were trying presenter. As you

26:37

know, I clicked my fingers, never became

26:39

christian. Where's the archaeology saying? Well it

26:41

it'll become Christian but maybe it was

26:44

more gradual instigate and people were less

26:46

immediately certain about it. Said they seem

26:48

to compliment each other quite well. They're

26:50

absolutely these are. You actually are the

26:52

moments I think that are still around

26:54

and many of them are being the

26:56

wants to be more as we get

26:59

better dating methods. that Syria was excavated

27:01

plastic archaeological methods and then now subjected

27:03

to. A jury analysis we can tighten

27:05

the crouch and then when their were

27:07

first excavated people thought there were spent

27:10

for periods forests built to invade England,

27:12

France and so's only with tighter chronology.

27:14

Dendrochronology. Were able to say where I'm

27:17

at, these weren't built in the rain. it's

27:19

then the submarine Harold and then find one

27:21

of the historical circumstances that would require the

27:23

building that these forts. Than that we have

27:25

adjusted to time for. And

27:27

how significant was the colonization of

27:30

Iceland to the Viking world's. Having.

27:32

You is hugely submit to get. We

27:35

talked about those different opportunities that the

27:37

Vikings see when they lead their own

27:39

homes, the rating than trading and the

27:41

south and the summit is just as

27:44

much a part of the biking he

27:46

does that expansionism moving beyond your shores.

27:48

I mean sometimes I think about getting

27:51

on a wooden boat and going across

27:53

the North Atlantic and then imagine putting

27:55

kids on their plans as town those

27:58

cheap a been going out for a

28:00

week prost and north atlantic and of

28:02

wouldn't go to extraordinary the decision make

28:05

it to do that to make that

28:07

migration and so I want honest with

28:09

I think that's a key part of

28:12

the by it's niche that expansion them

28:14

in Iceland is one the last really

28:16

big landforms settled by humans. So.

28:19

It offers us also significantly for

28:21

own time and for the discipline

28:23

it offers us a case study

28:25

of human environmental interaction that we

28:27

desperately need now is would take

28:29

me about what impacts humans have

28:31

a environments, their diet and spansion

28:33

into the North Atlantic. The golfers

28:35

all these will laboratories at the

28:38

Pharaohs Iceland, Greenland and and then

28:40

Lent which we now know based

28:42

on ideologies not just some crazy

28:44

story, it's rooted the store for

28:46

that ought to san picked and

28:48

significant. For time as well for the

28:50

Vikings, a very large number of Scandinavians

28:53

move into the North Atlantic to settle

28:55

on this totally wide open lance. Within

28:57

sixty years of conflict settled, you may

28:59

be doing seventy thousand people and it

29:02

comes. It's just the right moment to

29:04

for a more traditional Vikings was set.

29:07

In England the great army has settled down

29:09

South Road they share outland dismantle three out

29:11

of the for Anglo Saxon kingdoms at last

29:14

the on what we'd west standing as you

29:16

know enough not to comes the kingdom of

29:18

the New later So this is why defects

29:20

and Bacon's in Britain. And so

29:23

opportunity in England might not be as

29:25

great. Movie. How guy like

29:27

Alfred the Great for starts resisting

29:29

for the vitamin trojans in back

29:31

in the homelands. kings are taking

29:33

power and change in politics and

29:36

people are looking for other activities

29:38

there. So. I think those are

29:40

traditional lighting type that might seek into

29:42

the North Atlantic and sell them down

29:45

become productive. Those surviving this free land

29:47

that was the main draft there were

29:49

some aspect of in a regional trade

29:52

bill that there may also have pulled

29:54

them to Iceland. That's the Walrus companies

29:56

that were both in Iceland Greenland which

29:59

would offer ivory. For trade

30:01

with you or up at a time when

30:03

health and I bet you was hard to

30:05

come by this, the trade across the map

30:07

dreaded had been severed such maybe one of

30:09

the world systems theory reasons for the Vikings

30:11

going into the north of math and they

30:13

can sydney like so they go from Iceland

30:16

to Greenland and to the New world. And

30:19

just thinking about using all of these

30:21

techniques in the way the you and

30:23

others are now bringing all of these

30:26

disciplines together. What else you think we

30:28

might be able to uncover or answer

30:30

using this approach? What still mystifies you

30:32

that you would like to get the

30:34

bottom of? I mean there's so many

30:37

good question. Start that to sit. continue

30:39

on the Vita and Spansion into the

30:41

North Atlantic. One thing we haven't talked

30:43

about: his promise of age dna sound

30:45

someone a problem since one of the

30:48

most enticing. On the new sciences

30:50

and we think about saying them up

30:52

against each other. These data sets, written

30:54

text have been nominate. They. Have

30:57

been driving research should the

30:59

questions were asked. To. The

31:01

point that archaeologists have taught for long

31:03

time, but the tyranny of the tax

31:05

taxes times? Where to get. I.

31:07

Think we have more balanced now. Archaeology

31:09

is it's own feel, The deserve respect

31:12

and field itself. It can stand up

31:14

to that historical. And

31:16

then you're the bombshell of ancient dna. Com

31:18

is gonna solve all problems you were gonna

31:20

stand. human migration, wingspan have to put interact

31:23

with each other in to marry. The interbreed

31:25

said there was a fascination with i think

31:27

somebody sciences but it's also not that it

31:29

is in in the genetics you have to

31:32

treat your prepare some when you're saying so

31:34

for ice buddies at this is very interesting.

31:36

It leads to one of the things I

31:38

would really like to to war. With.

31:41

A did genetics of Ice and to

31:43

figure out who are the people that

31:45

settled Isis? we know it Scandinavians father

31:48

any other populations involved. So.

31:50

About eighty percent that the dna

31:52

of modernize some is comparable. To.

31:54

Say Norwegians. So let's eighty

31:56

percent Scandinavians. And a good

31:58

portion of Celtic the when them. British Isles

32:00

sucks. But. What's fascinating it is

32:03

that when you look at the

32:05

mitochondrial dna subverts, email mine less

32:07

suited to percent skill eighty. And.

32:09

You have more Celtic. Dna.

32:12

In Iceland. And that.

32:14

Was. A bit of a

32:16

revelation then need since you back to

32:19

Texas. okay we'll that they do talk

32:21

about bringing slaves and wives from the

32:23

British isles to Iceland since they're not

32:25

fifty cent but it is there so

32:27

then you go back you have to

32:29

rethink. Also the archaeology were other any

32:32

Celtic pipe remains in essence to see

32:34

that is really not much there are

32:36

some but the culture in Iceland is

32:38

overwhelming was get headaches in the language

32:40

the sagas written him lives is so

32:42

speak is scattered head. So. The

32:45

identity that that they create

32:47

for themselves in Iceland, even

32:49

though there is this vast

32:51

genetic input from non Scandinavians.

32:54

Is can they be? So the identity

32:56

formation I think is something that we

32:58

can read explore some people as now

33:00

and also in the past. Make.

33:02

Choices about with their a Daddy is

33:05

with directness. It is how they represent

33:07

themselves and the fluidity of that is

33:09

something that we really need to look

33:11

into more in the fight to sir

33:14

everything from identity. In. I said

33:16

he didn't the northern British Isles so

33:18

the shut wings in the work in

33:20

his these are speaking scan maybe language

33:22

that comes Dominic when they're in Britain.

33:25

in Southern England or in France they

33:27

adapt to look courtroom, it's quicker. We

33:29

also now see from archaeology and Dna

33:32

clearly that women were warriors as well.

33:34

The famous craving beer cans to steer

33:36

years ago demonstrated that one of the

33:38

highest class when essential like in warriors

33:41

that was in every textbook gets the

33:43

example of of male mighty warrior was.

33:45

Biologically seen. These types

33:47

of questions new arenas for analysis

33:50

or emerging almost every year. the

33:52

a dandy formation Attic is one

33:54

of the questions out real like

33:56

switching to. Earn that a similar ah

33:59

shot a little thing is. Will be are a

34:01

spent one summer looking for a second

34:03

waking site in Newfoundland and I'm based

34:05

on of America so that is one

34:07

of our students questions or was this

34:09

them or like and stuff to be

34:11

found in North America and the fact

34:13

that there is. It's amazing

34:15

how much as and of the viking world

34:17

has moved on as the study's image and

34:19

say that makes it even more interesting thing

34:21

about where it might go it's really exciting

34:23

field that is as you say changing all

34:25

of the time and I wonder why will

34:27

be in ten years' time with our understanding

34:29

of the Viking world it's redo it exciting

34:32

Guess I hope I'm still around to take

34:34

part in that did a stellar it as

34:36

a I have such as a thank you

34:38

so much for spending some time of this

34:40

talking about the Viking world I cannot say

34:42

fascinating think he said us been a pleasure.

34:47

Says it's New Books, The Age of

34:49

Wolves and When Voyages Three, the Viking

34:51

world is I've now if you'd like

34:53

to expand your horizons just as a

34:55

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