0:00

The Holy Grail of regenerative medicine

0:02

is basically this intersection between cell

0:04

therapy, gene editing or gene

0:06

therapy, and tissue engineering. So all three of

0:09

those is kind of what's the next era

0:11

of medicine. And combining all three of those

0:13

in a very sophisticated way is what's going

0:15

to allow us to regrow organs and fix

0:18

any disease known to man, I think. Especially

0:20

once CRISPR becomes a reality, you should be

0:22

able to fix any genetic defect. We're getting

0:24

there. We're not there yet. But I think

0:26

that's going to definitely happen as these technologies

0:29

continue to evolve. So

0:32

I have to tell you the conversation I'm about to

0:34

share kind of blew my mind in the best of

0:36

ways. What if you could regrow

0:39

damaged tissue, reverse chronic illness,

0:41

cure neurodegenerative disease, even slow aging

0:43

by harnessing the power of your

0:45

own body and cells? It may

0:48

sound like science fiction, but incredible

0:50

breakthroughs in the emerging field of

0:52

regenerative medicine are making this a

0:54

reality. And at the

0:56

same time, the hype machine here is on

0:58

overdrive. So I wanted to sit

1:01

down with a true visionary in the field

1:03

to understand what's real, what's not, and where

1:05

we're headed. My guest today

1:07

is Dr. Adil Khan, a visionary

1:09

leader in this exciting new domain

1:11

of regenerative health care. And as

1:13

a physician scientist on the cutting

1:15

edge of cellular therapies, he is

1:17

really pioneering treatments that are transforming

1:19

lives. In this conversation, you'll discover

1:22

how things like stem cells, gene

1:24

editing, PRP, prolotherapy, and tissue engineering

1:26

are converging to create powerful new

1:28

ways of repairing the body that

1:30

just a generation ago, seem

1:32

like the stuff of fantasy. And

1:35

Adil shares insights from the front

1:37

lines of developing these game-changing technologies

1:39

along with the profound results that

1:41

he's achieving with patients with everything

1:44

from neurodegenerative conditions to muscle loss.

1:46

Yet he's also really candid about

1:48

the current limitations and risks, stressing

1:51

the importance of rigorous science and

1:53

safety alongside the incredible promise. And

1:56

we do a lot of myth-busting about some

1:58

of the rampant claims about regenerative medicine. interventions,

2:00

talk about what's real, what's hype, what

2:02

is coming down the pike. And

2:04

his passion for democratizing access really

2:07

shines through along with just this

2:09

grand vision for the future integration

2:11

of cellular medicine. So

2:13

get ready to have your mind

2:15

pretty much melted the way mine

2:17

was when it comes to what

2:19

may be possible in healthcare. From

2:21

regenerating organs to reversing chronic disease,

2:23

curing illness and reversing aging altogether

2:25

but also gain deeper wisdom for

2:27

navigating this emerging landscape responsibly as

2:29

a patient today so you know

2:31

what to ask. The

2:34

deal's balanced perspective and wealth of

2:36

knowledge really provides the perfect primer

2:38

to this most hopeful and hyped

2:40

field of medicine. So excited

2:42

to share this conversation with you. I'm

2:44

Jonathan Fields and this is Good Life

2:47

Project. Cool

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4:27

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4:40

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4:44

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5:00

having a roadmap for a journey you didn't

5:02

expect, making it a little less daunting. I

5:07

think medicine is in such an interesting state right now.

5:10

A lot of people are railing against

5:12

different elements of medicine, healthcare systems, stuff

5:14

like that. And then

5:16

we see this field of regenerative

5:18

medicine sort of emerging almost like

5:20

out of the ether, like in

5:22

the mode of a savior. And

5:26

I feel like there's a lot of

5:28

hope and there's a lot of hype. And

5:30

I want to go into a bit of that with you.

5:33

And then I'd love to dive into some of the specific

5:35

modalities that are getting a lot of attention and really talk

5:37

about them and what the future holds. But

5:39

when we use the phrase regenerative medicine these

5:42

days, just more broadly, what are we actually

5:44

talking about here? Yeah, at

5:46

a very basic level, the best way

5:48

to understand it is we're just trying

5:50

to repair or fix tissue back to

5:52

the way it was. So

5:55

instead of cutting things out. So

5:57

for example, if you have a bad knee. Right

6:00

now, they may take it out and they'll put in

6:02

a new knee, an artificial one. But

6:04

imagine if we can grow you a new

6:06

knee, so to speak, or grow you some

6:08

new cartilage. So that's the idea or promise

6:10

of regenerative medicine. Obviously, this concept

6:12

has been around for decades, but we're

6:15

finally, as Arnold Kaplan put

6:17

it, who's a kind of

6:19

pioneer scientist in regenerative medicine, that we're

6:21

at the beginning of the

6:24

end, so to speak. So meaning the

6:26

end of just the scientific

6:28

discovery area, and now we're actually beginning

6:30

the actual clinical translation of

6:32

everything that the last 30 years of science has taught

6:35

us. So is it possible that

6:37

things like knee replacements or a lot

6:39

of what's orthopedic surgery

6:41

today in 10, 20, 30,

6:44

40 years, we'll kind of look back at that

6:46

and say, how on earth did we ever

6:48

allow that to happen? Oh, there's

6:50

so many. I think in 30 years, I

6:52

think we'll look back and we'll be like,

6:55

wow, I can't believe this is how medicine

6:57

used to be. From

6:59

all chronic diseases, not just orthopedic,

7:01

but all cardiovascular disease, COPD,

7:04

psoriasis, inflammatory conditions,

7:07

even cancer, it's going to

7:09

look very archaic in 30 years

7:11

from now because right now, it's just a nuclear

7:13

approach which is just kill all your cells in

7:15

the body, including the good ones with chemotherapy. And

7:18

eventually, it's going to be designer cells that I

7:20

believe will be the solution to a lot of

7:22

these as we've already seen. And this is stuff

7:25

that's already happening now, and

7:27

it's only getting more sophisticated as

7:29

time goes on. So it's not

7:31

something that's 50 years

7:33

down the road. It's already kind of

7:35

happening in practice, and I'm obviously treating patients

7:37

already with a lot of these technologies. And

7:40

the results are only getting better every year

7:42

because the technology keeps getting better. Yeah,

7:45

I'm curious just on a personal level. When

7:47

you decide I'm going to enter the field of medicine, did

7:50

you know from those early days, oh, this is

7:52

the particular branch that I want to go into?

7:54

Or did you enter it and then something happened?

7:57

No, Regina medicine is not even a thing in

7:59

medical school. Is that

8:01

if we were taught anything about any

8:03

were taught embryology and obviously stem cell

8:06

biology. but there's no lights reject him

8:08

as and curriculum or a that, that's

8:10

and so it was more. It's almost

8:12

out of frustration of not being able

8:15

to help people the way I wanted

8:17

to help them. especially because I serve

8:19

as a sport doctor or and and

8:21

family doctor and in primary care medicine.

8:23

Sports medicine is traditional medicines. quiets not

8:26

only Monday. By this a lot of

8:28

pieces don't get better and. It.options

8:30

are basically just cortisone injection

8:32

if you have pains says

8:34

yo therapies. Acupuncture.

8:37

Shockwave, you know some stuff like that and

8:39

if that isn't worth than this as you

8:41

after surgery and a lot as faces don't

8:43

want surgery and sometimes searches risky are dangerous

8:46

or the can't even do surgery. So than

8:48

half patients with chronic pain who are living

8:50

with it and suffering and there's no one

8:52

to help them and thus really got me

8:55

into a because chronic pain is not easy

8:57

field and in general but it's also one

8:59

of the things that affects more than just

9:01

quality of life Because as we probably all

9:04

know now, longevity is highly correlated with movement

9:06

and exercise. And putting on muscle by if

9:08

you're in chronic pain you can't really exercise

9:10

can move properly. it can load the muscles

9:12

the way he wants to. Your health deteriorates

9:15

and then the chronic pays off. Associate with

9:17

mental health issues depressants a lot as piping

9:19

pieces have is your promise. And so there's

9:21

always other factors that. Interplay into it

9:23

as well and stuff was my big driving

9:25

forces, kind of just helping these people that

9:27

no one else seemed to want to health.

9:29

and then I just started helping them and

9:31

at with vagina medicine. And it just

9:34

kind of went from there. Yeah, I mean

9:36

I'm curious else it is when you make

9:38

this sir like last time, like you doing

9:40

this thing using other traditional modalities are laced.

9:42

Following. Standard of care that has been center

9:44

of care for generations. That, as I said,

9:46

right, And you do nothing like a cancer.

9:48

Sometimes it's were thing pet health and times

9:50

it's not and then you'd Benson the next

9:52

level and nothing. Sometimes or sense. I mean,

9:54

I had to. We've probably all heard countless

9:57

stories. maybe folks listening in have preceded all

9:59

the way through. Surgery and then gotten

10:01

through that and gone through the

10:03

rehab and then there's still Ashley.

10:05

not better and I can imagine.

10:08

This. Utility that says soon when you

10:10

figure like okay, have done all the

10:12

things I checked, all the boxes appeared

10:14

on the money, have endured all the

10:16

suffering and the added pain and and

10:18

the recovery and I'm still not feeling

10:20

better. You know on individual level that's

10:22

that can be brutalizing. And imagine

10:24

first position as also got to be

10:26

like like psychologically can brutalizing it is

10:28

and us actually why most physicians are

10:31

burnt out side is not because a

10:33

job satisfaction is highly correlated with your

10:35

ability to sell beer pieces and because

10:37

that's why we become doctors. We want

10:39

to help the folks at a very

10:41

fundamental level most doctors and so if

10:43

you can't see or pieces get better

10:46

because very frustrating and you start getting

10:48

burned out and allow doctors are burnt

10:50

out because that are working in a

10:52

broken system and they're not. Able to

10:54

provide meaningful solutions to their patients.

10:56

Is this a revolving door or

10:58

is this kind of bandy solutions?

11:00

And it they are. Odyssey's Trauma

11:02

is a stuff like that where

11:05

surgeries needed and you have to.

11:07

Earth's just surgeries. But there's. By.

11:09

Far the vast majority of

11:11

the reason our healthcare system

11:13

is breaking down his exacerbation

11:15

of chronic conditions and increase

11:17

in crime, diseases and we

11:19

know these things are majority

11:21

preventable with lifestyle. Over eighty

11:23

percent has been the statistic

11:25

that story published so. Why?

11:28

Don't people change? And then there's so many

11:30

other issues on that. so I think we're

11:32

kind of over the past. that point where

11:34

I'm kind of like okay, people are going

11:37

to be people are. It's also because our

11:39

environment is set up says for failure. It's

11:41

so hard to live a healthy lifestyle when

11:43

we have it would be such an environment.

11:46

With talks ensues, everything that invested in be

11:48

approved in the food chain is approved and

11:50

and so is this. All these other factors

11:52

a make living healthy lifestyle really challenging by

11:55

region and Madison has the ability to increase

11:57

your physiology. Any resiliency so you can

11:59

deal. With a modern environment and you can

12:01

live a healthy lifestyle easier and as to

12:03

me as the most impactful thing about what

12:06

we can do for lot of people damn

12:08

and sounds a cool So when you make

12:10

this decision. And. You're like Isis. This

12:12

isn't the past for me. I want to see

12:14

this other pass and like you described using can

12:16

a training and this. In. Med School? I'm

12:18

curious. Have you actually go about saying I need

12:20

to as he understand what this is and get

12:22

training copy on a level where the his had

12:25

you like? I can turn around and offer this

12:27

to patients. Yeah. I guess is like

12:29

that flowed whereas like everyone goes latter you

12:31

go right and and an ear that it's

12:33

less on your own trail and try to

12:35

figure it out so that's just what I

12:37

did a nice i was fortunate be as

12:39

a doctor in Canada s daughter as the

12:41

guy was code a pioneer in lately rich

12:43

plasma jackson's which is older technology now but

12:45

something that was used quite a bit in

12:47

which out of medicine for. Muscle. Tears

12:49

and Ten in tears. Over lot of athletes

12:51

were doing it and so I got. Fortunate.

12:54

To work with him on that regard

12:56

and I learned a lot. but then

12:59

atomic traveling into Asia, Italian, to Europe,

13:01

Middle East, and all his other

13:03

places where hey, guess what they've been

13:05

using reject him as a long time

13:08

with and especially in Japan, which is

13:10

probably the birthplace of cellular reprogramming

13:12

and all this genetic modification to Thousand

13:14

and Ten of the Holy Grail of

13:17

which added medicine really which is making

13:19

an old soul young again. The

13:21

Yamanaka factors, thousand births in Japan and

13:23

so. That alone made me very

13:26

curious about. Japanese. Culture and

13:28

everything. And so when I worked there

13:30

I learned a times and then just

13:32

kind of shadowing different doctors and learning

13:34

and then putting it all together because

13:37

to set of looking at the body

13:39

in the Silos approach which is still

13:41

at most doctors do with chronic disease.

13:43

There's more similarities than there are differences

13:46

between chronic illness or something called twelve

13:48

hallmarks of aging and the if you

13:50

look at them they tend to repeat

13:52

themselves with noxious eating but with heart

13:55

disease with Neutrogena conditions with cancer with

13:57

Osteoarthritis. Is all the same? Route.

13:59

So. There are dysfunctional parents that drives the

14:01

illness and so once you start seeing themes

14:03

and patterns and repetition and you put the

14:05

pieces together and I guess I was. I

14:07

managed to put the pieces together I think

14:10

before lot of other people then maybe than

14:12

that's why it's I've been able to be

14:14

very fortunate in in helping some patients that

14:16

no one else has been able to help.

14:18

And then you get a reputation for helping his

14:20

thesis and no one else the house and were

14:22

express pretty quickly especially amongst the communities that I

14:25

I worked in with be to be a sly

14:27

reason I know it's people and stuff like that

14:29

now I wanted and to some of the different

14:31

modalities and and give a even a little bit

14:33

into the weeds with the Be setting each one.questions

14:35

people have probably heard about them like other real

14:37

at the not where they for the with not

14:39

for. See. You just brought up one

14:41

that I think his plane one that a lot of

14:43

people to hear that and talk about commonly. Short.

14:46

Handed off and this P R P

14:48

Rich plasma. What? Do we as he talking

14:50

about what is that? Yeah. I like what

14:52

you said at the beginning of a talk

14:55

which is hop or hype and that's really

14:57

the biggest problem with regenerative medicine. Still is

14:59

the lack of standardization and amount of unfortunately

15:01

charlatans and predatory doctors who are claiming that

15:04

regard him as and experts and don't really

15:06

know much and are just trying to make

15:08

a quick buck off a patience. With that

15:10

said, it's and that's a big problem with

15:12

Prp. So play Louis Plasma is where we

15:15

take your blood we centrifuge said and will

15:17

spin it real fast as separate into different

15:19

layers and the plasma kind of sits. On

15:22

top and you can isolate that

15:24

because when you centrifuges a concentrates

15:26

and play it with and the

15:28

name plate the threats because as

15:31

written platelets and those platelets actually

15:33

release growth factors and signals to

15:35

reduce inflammation and promote regeneration. So

15:37

they send signals to repair tissue

15:39

but the signals are relatively weak

15:42

so they don't works for many

15:44

conditions they work for really only

15:46

muscle terrorists or tended tears and

15:48

usually not chronic to charities tasks.

15:51

A. More acute israeli were signs

15:53

and even then. The. problem is

15:55

again his lack of same as a centers different

15:57

types of trp if you don't get the right

15:59

time and it may not work even for a tear.

16:01

So you have to be careful. You really have to go

16:04

to someone who kind of understands there's a nuance, even with

16:06

PRP and that's because if you use the

16:08

wrong type of PRP, it can actually make

16:11

things worse. And the same thing with any

16:13

of these technologies. So you have to understand

16:15

the science and not just be a clinician.

16:17

And that's the tricky part about this field.

16:20

Regenerative medicine is very dense in that way.

16:22

It's not just being a doctor in a

16:24

sense, you're just injecting people or being

16:27

a surgeon with your hands or mechanics. You also have

16:29

to understand the science and basic science. And a

16:31

lot of that is traumatizing to doctors because they

16:33

have to memorize all these pathways in medical school

16:35

and they just wanna forget about them. And they

16:37

don't want to review that stuff at all. So

16:40

I enjoy that stuff for whatever reason. So I

16:42

find it fascinating and I am an interventional doctor

16:44

now and so I obviously inject people and treat

16:46

them all the time with my hands. But I'm

16:48

also reading all the time because I have to

16:50

understand the science. Yeah, and it

16:53

sounds like it's a type of field also where

16:55

the science is just changing and emerging and there

16:57

are new things being discovered, you know, like almost

16:59

on a daily basis. But it's interesting

17:01

that one of the knocks that I've heard on

17:03

PRP is that I'll talk to

17:06

10 different people who've gone to 10 different doctors

17:08

and had PRP treatments for, you know, like let's

17:10

say a similar condition, a knee injury or a

17:12

tendon injury. And some will say

17:14

it literally changed my life. It stopped me

17:16

from having surgery. It healed everything. I'm pain-free.

17:19

And others will walk around and basically

17:21

say like, nothing, like there's literally, it

17:23

had zero effect. Is that

17:26

more about some

17:28

things just are and aren't responsive or

17:30

some people aren't responsive or is it

17:32

more about not properly

17:34

matching the modality? That's exactly

17:36

what it is. Most

17:39

doctors unfortunately, we're trying to medicine because

17:41

it is a relatively nascent field. Unless

17:44

you've gone through the progression and you have a

17:46

lot of experience, because a lot

17:48

of people dabble in it, especially surgeons, surgeons

17:51

are great at cutting people, but they're not very

17:53

good at injection or not very good at basic

17:55

science, that's for sure. And so

17:57

it's a lot of times they're trying to do

17:59

something. but they don't fully understand all

18:01

the nuances behind it. And that's why you

18:04

get all these mixed results because PRP probably

18:06

shouldn't have been offered to that patient in

18:08

the first place if it was not the

18:10

right indication and the right patient. And there's

18:12

a lot of factors. Of course, there's gonna

18:15

be cases where you think

18:17

it should have worked, but it didn't. And

18:19

then you should have other tools, hopefully in

18:21

your toolbox to help that patient. But a

18:23

lot of times doctors don't because they don't

18:25

understand that there's a progression in how you

18:27

can kind of approach patients and use different

18:29

modalities. And basically, I think

18:31

it's more just matching the right modality with the

18:33

right patient. I think that's really what it comes

18:35

down to. And that's where I feel fortunate just

18:38

because I've had patients from all over the world in

18:40

some of the most complex cases, I've been able to,

18:42

obviously, it's not like I got here overnight. I had

18:44

to kind of experiment a little

18:46

bit and try different things on different patients and

18:49

figure out what works, what doesn't, what are patterns, and

18:51

there's a lot of that. And now we're trying to

18:53

do it in more formal settings. We're doing various

18:56

clinical trials to really show the

18:58

efficacy of what we're doing in real life. Yeah,

19:00

are you doing clinical trials with PRP right now

19:02

or focusing more else, sir? More

19:04

on stem cells. So we're doing clinical trial with stem

19:06

cells and osteoarthritis right now, and then gene therapy as

19:08

well. All right, cool. You

19:11

know, one of the curiosities as you're

19:13

talking also is, and I've seen this,

19:15

I've had some experience with regenerative medicine

19:17

myself, and one of the things that surprised

19:19

me right away is, you know, you'll often walk

19:22

into an office with, you

19:24

know, either X-rays or, you know, like

19:26

an MRI or typical scans, and

19:29

then you just sat down and somebody says,

19:31

well, that's nice, but I'm gonna actually do

19:34

a completely different type of diagnostic on

19:36

you. And very often, like the default

19:38

is some sort of super high power

19:40

ultrasound, which I had always sort of

19:43

like looked at as, well, that's the, quote, lesser

19:45

way. Like that's the lesser tool to do diagnostic,

19:47

but it seems like ultrasound is really a central

19:49

tool in a lot of the diagnostic side of

19:51

regenerative. Was that just my experience or was that

19:53

pretty common? No, it's completely

19:55

true for, especially

19:57

for musculoskeletal, like joint muscle,

19:59

tendon. and nerves, that type of

20:01

stuff. Ultrasound, dynamic ultrasound especially, is

20:04

often more accurate than MRIs, but it

20:06

depends on the user. That's the

20:08

biggest issue because MRIs can just go in the

20:10

machine and anyone can do it, but ultrasound is

20:12

so dependent on the probe and how you hold

20:15

it and all these other little finicky things. So

20:17

that finesse of ultrasound skills is very rare

20:19

actually. You must have gone to a good physician if

20:21

they knew how to use it properly. Yeah. What's

20:24

the difference between dynamic and sort of the right kind of

20:26

thing? Meaning they get you to do actual movements or they'll

20:28

get you to move your shoulder, do different positions

20:30

because an MRI is static. You

20:33

can only be in one position really, right? And

20:35

that's why standing MRIs are becoming more popular too

20:37

because then you can see stuff that you can't

20:39

always see in the laying position. And

20:41

that makes a lot of sense. So on

20:44

the hype side of PRP, well I guess

20:46

what you're saying is when people talk about

20:49

PRP, you're really looking at soft tissue injuries

20:51

probably around joints. It's certainly the prime reason.

20:53

Yeah. It's not good for chronic degenerative

20:55

stuff and I find it sad when

20:58

I see patients spend money and get told that it

21:00

may help with this but in reality, it wouldn't have

21:02

helped and then the doctor's just like, yeah, it's 50-50.

21:04

It may work, it may not. And the patient's just

21:06

like, yeah, I'll try it then. But

21:08

they just don't have the understanding to say like,

21:11

no, this is very unlikely to work. We

21:13

should try something else. Yeah. And I'm

21:16

very honest with my patients and I'd rather them not do

21:18

anything at all than do something that doesn't have a high

21:20

chance of success. That's my personal

21:22

take on patients but not everyone's like

21:24

that. But PRP is not great for

21:27

degenerative processes and a lot of patients

21:29

are living with degenerative conditions and looking

21:31

for support in those regards. Yeah. And

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quince.com/g l p So

26:02

one of the other things I've seen PRP and

26:04

it just feels like it falls on the hype

26:07

side based on what you're saying is for

26:10

hair regrowth or hair stimulation.

26:13

I am like definitely in a camp where I don't

26:15

have a lot of hair left, but I haven't gone

26:17

down that road myself at all. I'm not interested, but

26:19

I've seen it promoted that way in a lot of

26:21

different ways. Real or hype? Yeah,

26:23

no, it's definitely more hype than real. So

26:26

it can help in select cases.

26:29

It's very, I would say, hit or miss. I've

26:32

tried it myself personally and I have good hair now

26:34

but not because of PRP, but because

26:38

I've seen many other patients do it too and

26:40

it tends to be so hit or miss. I

26:42

just don't recommend it anymore personally because I just don't know if

26:45

it'll actually work and most of the time it doesn't, it feels

26:47

like. Because it's just not strong

26:49

enough. The signal for regeneration and for what you're

26:51

trying to do and achieve is not going to

26:53

be there. There's just better

26:55

technology now. So I personally wouldn't recommend it

26:57

for that. Got it. Okay.

27:00

If somebody is exploring PRP, what are a

27:03

couple of good questions that they might ask

27:05

or ask a physician to see is this

27:07

person right for me and is this modality

27:09

right for me? Yeah, I think

27:11

you should ask what type of PRP is it

27:13

and do you have different types of PRP? Because

27:16

most physicians don't, but those sophisticated

27:18

ones which are a handful in

27:20

the US do have different

27:23

types of PRP and understand the nuance behind

27:25

the different types. So that right away will

27:27

give you insight that this physician really knows

27:29

what they're doing. And then the

27:31

other big thing is, as you said, was ultrasound guidance

27:33

because there are many doctors, especially surgeons

27:35

who think they can inject into a joint

27:37

or tendon without ultrasound, but they can't. There's

27:41

been studies showing this and an

27:43

experienced orthopedic surgeon still injects into the

27:45

wrong spot in the knee joint injection

27:47

20% of the time. It

27:50

goes into the fat pad instead of going into the joint. So

27:52

it does not matter who you are, you can't

27:54

just palpate. This is

27:56

modern era, you need to use

27:59

image guidance. The problem is that a

28:01

steep learning curve is not an easy thing to

28:03

use ultrasound, so a lot doctors just on alone.

28:06

Oh. That's pure Pm on Saturday at

28:08

one other modality. Before we dive into it,

28:10

I think I'm will be a rich a

28:12

conversation around stem cells, potentially even gene editing.

28:14

But there's one other modalities that I'm familiar

28:17

with. his promo therapy which which seems like

28:19

maybe that sassy all this modality of all

28:21

it is. Yes, Sir Alex is the sixties

28:23

area, so it's a what it? What? Is

28:25

that? What? Like what we use it for?

28:27

Would we Not easy for. Yeah.

28:30

The principal and I was basically using

28:32

was really just sexual sincerely in which

28:34

is a server water essentially and the

28:36

reason the sugar water was is diverse.

28:39

I think they're discovering different they from.

28:41

They found that at when they looked

28:43

outside how it affected the ligaments a

28:45

cause proliferation. I wish me to stimulate

28:48

inflammation and helping things to become stronger

28:50

so you don't want to promote information

28:52

in certain areas for example in the

28:54

joint he doesn't you You would want

28:57

to be doing pro therapy to summits

28:59

scientific level. Although there are some people

29:01

doing it but again to to open the

29:03

understand the principles of what you're just trying

29:05

to achieve. If you're trying to achieve a

29:08

pro inflammatory response you want to do that

29:10

generally for a muscle tear or you I

29:12

do that for a ligament instability So it

29:14

is said ligaments aren't stable. For example we

29:17

have patience with Ehlers Demo syndrome who have

29:19

severely limited instability and ask where we do

29:21

follow therapy and be used. We've made use

29:23

a mixture of with the index was a

29:25

ceiling is a very old technologies it still

29:28

works but you may have to. Do like.

29:30

Six. Seven Eight sessions What we used

29:32

personally as we use something called bone marrow

29:34

ask for it and then we use something

29:36

called copper Peptide and these helped to stimulate

29:39

college in production proliferation Under my stronger and

29:41

much more potent i find people need one

29:43

procedure with it. Ah the some interests and

29:45

yeah because I've always heard of that in

29:47

the context us anywhere from like three to

29:49

Ten Lake in the seriousness of the a

29:51

death as by the sounds like it's that's

29:54

Does is using an older technology basically exactly

29:56

Yeah and I'm a sense that that wouldn't

29:58

be because if that's actually and. Hurricane

30:00

information I guess because that then becomes a

30:02

signal for the body. the send blood and

30:04

nutrients to an area to try and like

30:07

actually hear what wasn't the healing. Yeah.

30:09

Then you wouldn't wanna do that in an

30:11

area that was are inflamed exactly which is

30:14

why Prp if you use something called leukocyte

30:16

rich Prp or this the bureaucracy come

30:18

in two colors and could be golden or

30:20

can be read so the red trp

30:22

is generally not that advantages for most

30:24

say the less as a chronic muscle tax

30:27

but the law doctor's orders as a

30:29

difference in the for read Prp into a

30:31

joint but that pro inflammatory it's yeah

30:33

seemed potential making the patient were which I

30:35

seen. Got it? Less

30:38

sauce about the the area that is kinda

30:40

so much as I would imagine your spend

30:42

a lot of timeless as a yard him

30:45

on a trials and which is stem cells

30:47

claimed is is this is a bigger more

30:49

complex topic I'm. So.

30:52

Let's. Start with a basic question when

30:54

we're talking about stem cells. When

30:56

we actually talking about. I

30:58

think the best way to explain themselves

31:00

as it is an analogy and so

31:02

it's imagine your body is like a

31:05

cities you have the central library where

31:07

all the information is to tell your

31:09

body's on those structures on what to

31:11

do and as central library think of

31:13

it as your Nicholas where the Dna

31:16

as does with instructions and and you

31:18

have the mitochondria which is like a

31:20

nuclear power plant plant and then you

31:22

have all these different districts in cities

31:24

in your body which is like a

31:27

organ systems and then overtime. What

31:29

happens is the library

31:31

starts becoming. Damages. Like

31:33

the books and than structures start becoming

31:35

wrong as the replicators or says always

31:38

undergoing replications. but then you have these

31:40

little repair guys who come in there

31:42

and fix things. Those are the stem

31:44

cells they have. Their job is to

31:46

com and repair Dna damage, to repair

31:49

damaged tissue. and they're kind of these

31:51

cool little architects but also construction workers

31:53

at the same time and they're able

31:55

to figure out how to fix things

31:57

when they go wrong. But unfortunately overtime.

32:00

The library starts getting too much damage

32:02

and the books start getting more and

32:04

more damage and they prepare. Guys can

32:06

keep up And then this is was

32:08

called Chino Toxicity or Dna Damage and

32:11

this is what least two Aging when

32:13

your dna repair isn't the way was

32:15

when you were younger and to put

32:17

and contacts when you're a child or

32:19

a baby's you have two hundred stem

32:22

cells per one south and then by

32:24

the time you're eighty you have one

32:26

stem cell Purcell allows is gone down

32:28

by an order of. Yeah, two hundred

32:31

basically raised us order of magnitude, so it's

32:33

quite a bit different. So that means the

32:35

stem cell. Decrease. In function

32:37

and number cause. Stem cell exhaustion is

32:39

one the most important hallmarks of agents

32:41

and that's why stem cells are such

32:43

a hot area research. Not just because

32:46

they're applicability to chronic pain and all

32:48

this stuff, but aging as and longevity

32:50

is where the hottest topics right now

32:52

And so he's gonna learn how can

32:54

they live longer and healthier and better

32:56

lies and ask this potential is obviously

32:58

a stem cells because once you understand

33:00

why we age you can understand why

33:02

stem cells has some as potential. Charlotte.

33:05

So. It's these are

33:08

so powerful. When we

33:10

talk about using stem cells

33:12

in regenerative medicine context, then.

33:15

Take. Me deeper into that. Yeah, the

33:17

biggest issue with stem cells and similar

33:19

peer of his lack of standardization. So

33:21

there's so many different types of stem

33:24

cells and the word itself is almost

33:26

meaningless because are we talking about Amazon

33:28

Com Os themselves or he matter? Be

33:30

there are in display, photo, sense, others,

33:32

all these different types. But the most

33:34

important thing to understand is how do

33:36

we control the stem cell to do

33:38

what we want? Meaning how do we

33:40

almost program as in away so that

33:42

his senses signals that we wanted to

33:44

sense and asshole. Cellular. Engineering and that's

33:46

kind of the era were living in

33:48

now, whereas before we were kind of

33:51

just taking stem cells from. Your.

33:53

Body or from an umbilical cord and then we

33:55

were just injecting them back and in. The results

33:57

have been very mixed for that and they continue

33:59

to. The because there's no standard as

34:02

a sense and so although we still

34:04

use and of for stem cells in

34:06

practice, we have now engineers themselves and

34:08

engineered products that were using because we

34:11

know. Better. How they're going to

34:13

function was you put them in the bodies and at

34:15

a loss for better standardize. A said that this is

34:17

kind of where we're headed now and. When.

34:20

I mentioned earlier about that Japanese

34:22

fellow Yamanaka us suppressing the reset

34:24

button on a hotel making a

34:26

young again that's called induced Pluripotent

34:29

Stem Cell or I P see.

34:31

And. Those Ikea seas are kind of the

34:33

holy grail with stem cells because they

34:36

can turn into any type of tissue

34:38

and your body's and they have the

34:40

ability to actually and graft with music

34:42

actually rico new tissue and this has

34:44

been shown in clinical trials with Parkinson's

34:46

disease with diabetes and now there's so

34:48

much research happening for so many different

34:50

organs and the sky's the limit right?

34:52

If you can draw any type of

34:54

south and repair the body than you

34:56

can theoretically. Eventual effects and

34:58

easyjet of condition in the bodies and

35:00

even aging eventually I think. Maybe.

35:03

Not sure, but definitely severely slow down

35:05

because if you can make all your

35:07

cells in your body young again theoretically,

35:09

you could. Live. Forever. And as

35:12

the immortal jellyfish is, that is a

35:14

lease for illness or five thousand years

35:16

or something. Ridiculous because it can t

35:18

differentiate itself. It can make his old

35:21

cells young again at well. which is

35:23

kind of crazy. And S M E

35:25

se you mention Yamanaka and I know

35:27

he. He was known as discovering these

35:29

as he described induced pluripotent stem cells

35:32

A He I think. Induce.

35:34

Me his are like me. I figure out

35:36

a way to create employ potent meaning. These

35:38

are some I I just didn't didn't the

35:40

officer really skin cells? Just really basic cells

35:42

and they ask and exactly and then find

35:45

a way to literally. Turn. Them

35:47

into stem cells that's and then turned

35:49

into whatever type of other sell. That.

35:52

You wanted to, but that research is,

35:54

I remember correctly. Probably that

35:56

he's kind of. he was fifteen years old at

35:58

this point when the on that dollars on it

36:00

as the other six we are a survey questions

36:02

which is you're not seeing a lot of those

36:05

I've yes he is in. Clinical

36:07

or out there and like is so

36:09

what's we are now because that's the

36:11

problem was up until now. If the

36:13

risk with these ideas sees is because

36:15

when you cook them you coaxing a

36:18

cell basically to become young again with

36:20

that has some risk with it and

36:22

the biggest risk with it is that's

36:24

their sense the embryonic in nature so

36:26

they can going to tumors. Are

36:28

cancer and sometimes a dna can be damaged

36:30

and that sometimes maybe have a may turn

36:32

into something you don't want to turn it

36:35

in the zebra in the body. So learning

36:37

how differences he sells into their rights cell

36:39

lineage as and making sure it's that local

36:41

environment put them in to do what you

36:43

once that took some time to figure out

36:45

but it for the most part the hasn't

36:47

figured out for as as meeting they have

36:49

figured out how to defenses the south into

36:51

neural progenitor cells into bed islet cells for

36:53

the pancreas into cardio my size for the

36:56

hearts to now we have all these different

36:58

processes to. Differentiate the South and there's

37:00

a company that were working with specifically

37:02

that has a technology as their proprietary

37:04

tax that pervades these Ikea seized from

37:07

growing tumors are cancer is called sale

37:09

seats and is basically a gene at

37:11

it inside of the I P a

37:14

C. So if they start replicating uncontrollably,

37:16

if you have and control proliferation and

37:18

will act as a kill switch the

37:21

meaning of start to sell some dividing

37:23

so you have that safety mechanism built

37:25

into it and that's the company were

37:28

using. And us when we didn't we

37:30

partner with them as because of that

37:32

technology so we can feel comfortable. Things

37:34

I've yes he is into patients because

37:36

we know they have that as Dlc

37:38

build into it there. How far are

37:40

we now with actually. Seen.

37:42

Patient outcomes with his knees up here

37:44

sees. Mom. Blue Rock

37:47

Therapeutics. Is. the one that

37:49

did a clinical trial for parkinson's and they

37:51

took ikea sees but these don't have the

37:53

celtic mechanism so they did there's obviously some

37:55

risk of having cancer potentially buzz pie one

37:57

percent or so but officer pieces are okay

38:00

it and so there was

38:02

12 patients or so and they took

38:04

these IPSCs and they turned them into

38:06

dopamine producing neurons and then they

38:08

transplanted them via surgery into the

38:10

area of the brain where they lose the

38:13

dopamine producing neurons called the basal

38:15

ganglia and they actually engrafted

38:18

meaning patients were actually producing new neurons

38:20

that were able to produce dopamine.

38:24

So this is the holy grail, right? They're

38:26

actually creating new tissue that's fixing the problem

38:28

instead of just masking it and these

38:30

patients go into remission which is unbelievable and there's

38:32

two dosing groups and the dosing group that's had

38:35

higher seem to have better results. So it's just

38:37

amazing to see the potential though of what this

38:39

technology can do and I think this is just

38:41

the beginning of the era of the IPSC era.

38:44

There's 40 IPSC companies now I think and they're

38:46

just exploding and it's definitely going to be a

38:49

way, you know, there's not going to be 40

38:51

companies in 20 years from now. There'll probably just

38:53

be a few that end up having the technology

38:55

and owning it and really getting the best results

38:57

but this is the field regenerative medicine is headed

38:59

towards now. Yeah, I mean that's

39:01

amazing especially when you talk about the results in the brain

39:03

like that because I was always taught that, you know, you

39:06

hit a certain point in life like you

39:08

have X number of brain cells and yes,

39:10

there's neuroplasticity but that's largely about you know

39:12

synapses rewiring. It's not you're not generating new

39:15

neurons, not generating new brain cells but sounds

39:17

like what you're describing is

39:19

actually like generating new neurons. Exactly,

39:22

that's why I'm very excited about

39:24

the neuroprogenitor cells that we're going to

39:27

create them from IPSCs and we're going to

39:29

explore that for dementia, Alzheimer's

39:31

and I mean even

39:33

MS, there's so many different conditions you can use this stuff

39:35

for. So I guess my curiosity around

39:37

that is like if we take MS or Parkinson's as

39:39

an example, if there's some

39:41

sort of genetic signal or maybe I'm making

39:44

an assumption here, if something's happening which is

39:46

basically stopping in Parkinson's case, you

39:48

know, like dopamine generating neurons

39:50

from actually like generating dopamine

39:52

anymore and then you do an

39:55

IPSC intervention and all of

39:57

a sudden you start generating neurons that

39:59

are generating dopamine and that switches the

40:01

counter to Parkinson's. Are you

40:04

changing the genetics of the existing neurons

40:06

or are they just dying and getting

40:08

replaced by ones that actually are fixed?

40:10

What's actually happening there? Yeah,

40:12

no, they're actually – so the

40:14

old neurons are dying off essentially

40:16

because they're dead. They're not

40:19

doing what they're supposed to or they're just functional

40:21

or they're senescent, meaning they become these zombie cells

40:23

and they're not doing what they're supposed to. So

40:25

they're essentially just – and they're not being

40:28

cleared up the way they should. So when

40:30

you put in these new cells, it changes

40:32

the signaling and the local environment as well,

40:35

which means it helps to reduce neural inflammation.

40:37

It helps with oxidative stress and it helps

40:39

with other kind of cellular hallmarks, as we

40:41

talked about earlier, that are

40:44

associated with Parkinson's because we

40:46

know that a lot of these chronic diseases have

40:49

all these different hallmarks. So for example, in Parkinson's,

40:51

they found that there was a trial last year

40:53

that showed that even certain gut

40:55

bacteria are linked to Parkinson's. So gut

40:57

dysbiosis or having the wrong bacteria can

41:00

increase the risk of Parkinson's, even Alzheimer's.

41:02

So there's all these other things that

41:04

are contributing factors, which I think ultimately

41:06

are the ones that alter gene expression.

41:09

So even if you have a genetic predisposition,

41:11

I don't think genetics play that big of

41:13

a role as compared to obviously epigenetics, which

41:16

we understand way more about now and how

41:18

gene expression is altered and turned on and

41:20

turned off based off the environment. No,

41:23

that makes a lot of sense. So we're

41:25

really kind of talking about this long cutting

41:27

edge type of stem cell, the intersplodipotent stem

41:29

cells. And that's where the

41:32

edge is. That's where people are like, you

41:34

are just starting to actually do the work

41:36

and the science behind it and using it

41:38

clinically. But when the

41:40

vast majority of people talk about having

41:42

some sort of stem cell procedure these

41:45

days, they're not talking

41:47

about that. They're often talking

41:49

about, you described earlier, mesenchymal

41:51

or fat-derived stem cells. What

41:54

are those and what are the common use

41:56

cases for those? Where does that make sense?

41:59

Yeah. So mesenchymal stromal

42:01

cells is a technical right

42:04

nomenclature but we just call them stem

42:06

cells because everyone now says that but

42:08

stromal because they have a little bit

42:10

of scaffolding effect and mesenchymal is just

42:12

kind of an embryological term but essentially

42:15

these are multipotent cells, they're not pluripotent

42:17

so that's important to remember. What's it

42:19

doesn't say? Yeah exactly.

42:21

So pluripotent means they can

42:23

differentiate into all three cell

42:25

lineages called ectoderm, mesoderm and

42:27

mesoderm but multipotent just means

42:29

they have what's called a trilinage

42:31

differentiation capacity which means they can

42:33

only turn into cartilage,

42:36

fat, muscle and

42:38

bone really. So it

42:41

can't go into all the different, it can't grow

42:43

into neurons or other things like that. So

42:46

there's much more limitations with

42:48

multipotent mesenchymal stem cells

42:50

as compared to induced pluripotent stem

42:52

cells. So the question is can

42:55

we engineer mesenchymal stem cells so

42:57

they have more pluripotency and

43:00

that's kind of where the research is going now. If

43:02

you just go to your typical doctor, I guess

43:06

this is where there's problems in the field is

43:08

if you go in the US, they're

43:10

going to tell you you're getting a stem

43:12

cell procedure but stem cell procedures are still

43:15

illegal in the US and if not FDA

43:17

approved, obviously that's not stopping people from doing

43:19

it which I get if I mean I

43:21

understand people don't agree with them but same

43:23

time, there's a big black market

43:25

now for stem cells and exosomes and all this

43:27

stuff and it's creating some problems because it ruins

43:30

the reputation of people who are trying to follow the rules

43:32

and trying to do the good work and if

43:34

you go to a doctor in

43:36

Florida where they're doing stem cells, they're more than likely

43:38

either offering you your own stem cells which aren't true

43:41

stem cells so you're taking your bone marrow or your

43:43

fat and then they're just processing it and they're injecting

43:45

it back in. Those are technically

43:47

committed progenitor cells which means they've already committed

43:49

to a cell lineage and they can't actually

43:52

turn into different types of tissue. They're just

43:54

more reducing inflammation. They're more signaling molecules than

43:56

anything else and then let's just say if

43:58

they're in We're open sort of

44:01

the most. How to play the slimy to

44:03

sort? As an example, Splitter: So many clinics

44:05

are offering this and that say say you

44:07

get ivy stem cells or exosomes or it's

44:09

something like that and they get from Adobo

44:11

Chords they're usually gonna be. Derived. From

44:13

him belt the fortitude but they're not often

44:15

can be culture expand and because quarter an

44:17

expansion is very illegal in the U S

44:19

and so as to it and it's eating

44:22

If I had been trouble for that if

44:24

you're not doing it under clinical trial it's

44:26

typically that's what most people are getting I

44:28

would say for the most pirating and built

44:30

a quarter suits or exosomes which has the

44:32

soup that the stem cells go him personally

44:35

where I do most of my work is

44:37

in Los Cabos Mexico and to buy in

44:39

Europe in Tokyo I'm working in the summer

44:41

acts as these are places. Where stem cells

44:43

are regulated approved and you know we can

44:46

debate all day about why they're not approved

44:48

By the point is or disapprove, we're past

44:50

the ace a primordial to politics and safety

44:52

or efficacy. But the problem as you're saying

44:54

with with these mustn't amongst themselves is that

44:57

their multi potus a meeting. They don't really

44:59

have that much play potencies a lot pieces

45:01

are thinking they're getting these in hopes of

45:03

a rich area you tissue but not really

45:05

doing that to just how reducing inflammation wishes

45:08

to be. Very helpful for chronic pain. Longevity.

45:11

To as implementing and quite information a

45:13

bit drier of aging so they're still

45:15

there so you saw by just being

45:17

very clear and transparent about what they

45:20

can do with he can't do and

45:22

I to that extent We are now

45:24

working with a company that has something

45:26

com New South New Cells are very

45:28

fascinating and is gonna love it into

45:31

the weeds but it is. I think

45:33

people find this interesting because it it's

45:35

another. Japanese technology is called multi lineage

45:37

differentiating stress enduring cells. Some use M

45:40

U. S Islands. And and

45:42

you as seem you cells are

45:44

usually only one to five percent

45:46

of the population of music the

45:48

most themselves By. They're. Responsible

45:50

for most of the play potency of

45:53

your as missiles or play potent basically

45:55

and their their stress and during meaning

45:57

they can survive harsh environments where regular

45:59

stamps. A model die once you

46:01

inject them into the body and so. Musa

46:04

was a different one of the goals

46:06

of the last kind of decade of

46:08

research has been how do we increase

46:10

immune cell concentrations because then we can

46:12

increase the efficacy of mustn't the most

46:14

themselves. So there's just a group that

46:16

use of Japanese technologies and it's have

46:18

been one to five percent of the

46:20

site the most themselves. They're like seventy

46:22

percent so you have potential like a

46:24

thirty x increase in the new cells

46:26

is gonna be significantly better in terms

46:28

of a fact and and seen this

46:30

clinically now and started to use these

46:32

missiles and there was also. Have been

46:34

incredible for chronic inflammation and it's all of

46:37

a variety of conditions. Got it? I mean

46:39

some let him hang in. Part is like

46:41

if you live in the U S ah

46:43

he has become oh yeah like really be

46:45

super caf on ask a lot of class

46:48

Sands. And. Not necessarily

46:50

that any people heard to are providing

46:52

services like madame as services have art

46:54

now intended, but it sounds I just

46:56

the learning curve here in the speed

46:58

at which things are developing is so

47:01

fast that it takes a huge amount

47:03

of effort destroyed. Stand tough, what's going

47:05

on. I. Had always been sir like

47:07

it before I heard about the and Yamanaka sells

47:09

it up yes he is at heard about Muschamp

47:11

the most and cells I think that's probably if

47:14

anyone's talked about or thought about have been that's

47:16

what comes up and and then the only options

47:18

were well. It's. Either bone marrow

47:20

derived meaning they used to take a

47:22

little bit of bone marrow basically spin

47:24

it out or it's Sat derived. The

47:27

only. Take a look at a sap

47:29

your body and rather from that and

47:31

those cells ten have the ability to

47:33

differentiate into damaged tissue. And

47:35

in doing so, she'll it. But it

47:37

sounds like you're saying that's not really

47:40

what happens. Now and daughter

47:42

are no Taplin Wrote a paper on

47:44

this and twenty seventeen leaders published in

47:46

Nature and it was basically we need

47:49

to rename the cells, call them medicinal

47:51

Signaling South don't call them wasn't the

47:53

most themselves because they're not stem cell

47:56

signaling. They're essentially just doing signals that

47:58

reduce inflammation. Do not really. Differentiating

48:00

a turning into different types a tissue

48:02

and in fact. Even if

48:04

you were to, let's say isolate the

48:06

As smith like the most themselves from

48:08

the fat or bone marrow and then

48:10

culture and expand them. The problem is

48:12

after each forty years stem cells just like

48:15

your body age and so they undergo

48:17

exhaustion. Which means they don't work that

48:19

well and so do you really want to

48:21

use own selves after a certain age?

48:23

Probably nods and wouldn't you rather have

48:25

a baby? Step Works are engineered cells

48:27

that are embryonic and in nature as soldiers.

48:29

Intuitively, I think most people understand that

48:31

their cells or to be great as

48:33

with Off. The prime allergy make ourselves

48:35

with her from donors the and people

48:37

sometimes Odyssey are concerned about don't you

48:40

have to match but would miss Ecmo

48:42

stem cells you don't they have with

48:44

com O H L A and to

48:46

gene expression so they don't express much

48:48

as antigen such as no risk of

48:50

graft versus host disease is not like

48:52

he matter predicts themselves which are bone

48:54

marrow stem cell transplants that you have

48:56

in the hospital those you how to

48:58

match but not for M S he's.

49:01

Got. It so if you do have

49:03

that procedure machine he last and you

49:05

feel some relief is very lazy. Not

49:07

because. The. Tissue has regenerated,

49:09

been healed is because we in

49:11

inflammation that area has been reduced

49:13

at least temporarily and that's political.

49:15

You're feeling so interesting and I

49:18

guess. Has. You notice. The.

49:20

Potential ethical issues. While he i think there's

49:22

been why debates about the use of umbilical

49:25

on stem cells and like people feel one

49:27

way or the other bad as sounds like

49:29

the idea caesar kind of like near the

49:31

next generation Worth around ran the spurs you

49:33

can just take any by the skins on

49:35

the secondly turn it into something los enough.

49:37

To. an umbilical on right yeah no it's

49:39

in fact is by even better than them

49:41

delegates because it's more of like embryonic i

49:43

think the ethical issues austin where from embryonic

49:46

stem cells the mercy of to take them

49:48

from aborted fetuses or it's going fetuses and

49:50

labs and offices are so many as though

49:52

he says around that plus they can cause

49:54

cancer and there's but this that doesn't stop

49:56

people from offering them just clinics in mexico

49:58

i seen them they offer and beyond stem

50:00

cells. It's scary number one and it's dangerous

50:02

and so you got to be very careful

50:04

where you go. And that's why unfortunately

50:06

I think the stem cell landscape outside

50:09

of the US too is riddled

50:11

with people who are just taking advantage

50:13

of patients and we're trying to really

50:15

educate people and just trying to do

50:17

things the right way while understanding that

50:20

this is still a very new field and we have to do

50:22

a lot more research to really push it forward. Good

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53:35

So you mentioned the use of these, the

53:38

IDS, induced pluripotent stem

53:41

cells in things like

53:43

neurodegenerative conditions. More

53:45

broadly, what about things like

53:47

heart disease, diabetes, or other

53:50

sort of like chronic systemic

53:52

illnesses? Yeah, well,

53:54

it turns out that all disease starts

53:56

in the cell. There was a

53:59

good Nobel Prize. Laureate who said

54:01

that? Am I think that brains

54:03

to for any chronic illness? So

54:05

where does cardiovascular disease starts? It

54:07

starts in the blood vessels called

54:09

the endothelial cells and the end

54:11

of your yourselves become dysfunctional. And

54:13

why did they become dysfunctional? Because

54:15

there's always talks in the stairs

54:17

for lifestyle. There's always things that

54:19

need to the south in the

54:21

lining of your blood vessels to

54:23

start getting damaged and the can't

54:25

repair themselves like we talked about

54:27

early as as city as as

54:29

decamp. Repair the library the way

54:32

wines and then eventually and we think.

54:34

There's. Something called a unitary theory of eating.

54:37

And is called unitary theory because

54:39

we think that stuff most foundational

54:41

cause of the cellular dysfunction and

54:44

cried disease progression has to do

54:46

with the mitochondria. So mitochondria are

54:48

much more than just powerhouses as

54:50

we were taught in high school

54:52

biology. They do a lot more

54:54

than that. They have to maintain

54:56

tissues homeostasis which is very important

54:58

because s entropy, overtime and changes

55:00

in that epigenetics is what really

55:02

be so aging and so. The

55:05

mitochondria become dysfunctional and that signal

55:07

meeting the can't deal with oxidation

55:09

that deters to miss oxidative stress,

55:11

the cat, the free radicals build

55:13

apps and in that be so

55:15

inflammation, senescence, and all his other

55:17

kind of hallmarks of aging. So

55:19

for cardiovascular disease or diabetes and

55:21

a very fundamental level, they're still

55:24

have the same color dysfunctional cellular

55:26

problems. and if he can restore

55:28

the cellular dysfunctions than you can

55:30

help to treat those conditions. And

55:32

ah slice themselves are almost magical

55:34

sometimes because. If they're done the right

55:36

way with the right dose thing and the especially

55:38

with his engineer stem cells now they can treat

55:40

a variety of conditions and athletes. Confusing for traditional

55:43

physicians and it almost looks like shot and I

55:45

thought the charlatan thing to i gotcha like how

55:47

can these actors themselves treat like twenty different conditions

55:49

that doesn't make any sense at But then once

55:51

you understand that you're like oh is because a

55:54

stream the Asa underlying Sally dysfunction and restoring the

55:56

sell your signaling in the process as are going

55:58

wrong in the first place. The pregabalin diabetes.

56:00

They don't clinical trials just with bone

56:03

marrow, stem cells, rope and Delta force

56:05

themselves not even engineered I P A

56:07

C ones and they I caught her

56:09

expanded job and they inject them into

56:11

the pancreas and patients can get off

56:13

insulin and it's in the for type

56:15

two diabetes so how's it doing that

56:18

mechanistically as is not redrawing New Patriot

56:20

Cells is just because this reducing inflammation

56:22

helping the oxidative stress helping with to

56:24

telomeres healthy. With all these different things

56:26

that the hallmarks of eating. It's.

56:28

Almost a hit I met. like the magic

56:30

bullet that he has enabled us to. It's

56:33

kind of yeah I think it's about figure

56:35

out what cell is gonna be the magic

56:37

bullet by think one day we will engineer

56:39

south that will be a magical a sickness

56:42

is it the his arm wrestling awesome security

56:44

that this is. This can literally gone to

56:46

your body and help with so many different

56:48

things from a key things to chronic things.

56:51

Let's say the temple person in there he

56:54

I Forty sixty six these are laid her.

56:56

To. Can have a lot of different things. That.

56:58

Need rather hang in there body like all

57:01

at the same time. How does the stem

57:03

cell like you put into the body in

57:05

the sense of like a like a sex

57:07

addict addict success but as and nowhere to

57:10

go? Yeah yeah no. Is it especially so

57:12

them you sell specifically which artists a population

57:14

of Ms the most themselves? Whether they're inside

57:16

of them they seem to be responsible for

57:19

most of the homing ability to their there

57:21

is a known homing ability of am a

57:23

cease and was like the most themselves but

57:25

the new cells or even more much more

57:28

so. So we think there's something

57:30

called chemo kinds which are released and

57:32

when tissues damage Chemo Kaiser signal that

57:35

say to you by how come help

57:37

me and so it's your body. Mobilizes.

57:40

It's immune response to do that but

57:42

then often times that immune response leads

57:44

to chronic inflammation and a consummation is

57:46

what kind of least is so Mr.

57:48

Jones processes because he respects kind of

57:50

stuck in this loop and so what

57:52

the stem cells can do and as

57:54

go in there and they change was

57:56

called the micro environments and they change

57:59

the cell years. The way this

58:01

is called macrophage polarization. That which

58:03

is just a fancy word for

58:05

saying we're retraining your immune system.

58:07

So. Instead of being a pathogenic phenotypes

58:09

where you're sending pro inflammatory signals are

58:12

now going to have a much nicer

58:14

phenotypes where you're sending anti inflammatory signals.

58:16

And so that's basically was happening with

58:18

these stem cells when you put them

58:21

intravenously to as the bodies. So.

58:23

Basically. As you said

58:26

that, he couldn't pick in Oregon and and

58:28

and go to Atlanta by Sarah Zoellick Multi

58:30

System to you're talking about. It's almost like

58:32

they have these built and homie devices to

58:34

figure out like where is most important place

58:36

ago exactly Yes, death. as long as it

58:38

is wild I know I read a paper

58:40

it's a couple weeks ago and that they

58:42

describe the had a visual of how the

58:44

stem cells go into the blood vessels and

58:46

how are they home. It's almost like the

58:48

cells are smart and I think that's and

58:50

the I think that's the conclusion I'm coming

58:52

to personally be soft. Also, Michael Levine swear

58:54

it was that by electricity scientists and he

58:56

talks a lot about that with Alex a

58:58

city bus. I agree with him in that

59:00

sense that they're almost like these little something

59:02

you know, smart little things that kind of

59:04

know what to do when you put them

59:06

in the right place. but it's just it's

59:08

all but environment and they by mid dictates

59:11

the signaling that they're going to be told

59:13

and at how to know to do the

59:15

right thing depends on the environment and that's

59:17

why it's is the Michael environment has too

59:19

much information or side park sake and there's

59:21

all the wrong signals being sense than the

59:23

stem cells will work so that's why prepping.

59:25

The body and having the right microenvironment very

59:27

important for it is best results near them

59:29

a sense I mean as you describe and

59:31

I remember. Talking to physicians was

59:33

under seal them on point and. They.

59:36

Were saying that they have

59:38

been. Injecting.

59:41

Stem. Cells I V and

59:43

then using a set of

59:45

least Southland's Therapy. To

59:47

induce inflammation in particular areas that

59:49

they wanted to direct the stem

59:51

cells sound the sensor lieutenant find

59:53

their way to them because they

59:55

intense lane slain. That particular area

59:58

is that makes sense. I've

1:00:00

heard of that I've heard of people doing shock

1:00:02

wave or laser are other things to try to

1:00:04

get to, stem cells to go where they want

1:00:07

to and bites. I think that's a crude way

1:00:09

of doing insist friendly and I also don't know

1:00:11

it does a publish.on that I think I think

1:00:13

you just have to engineer the south so

1:00:15

that they have better homing abilities witness when were

1:00:18

doing now separate. It's almost like you're adding inflammation

1:00:20

to a system that's already like and that named

1:00:22

as a waste the time like directly saying sir

1:00:24

And yeah, my counter argument to that also would

1:00:27

be a we know that is just too much

1:00:29

information. The. Site. Oh kinds the proteins that I

1:00:31

lost and from it interferes with the stem cells

1:00:33

to do their job. Man yes or

1:00:36

tend to the whole process blessing want

1:00:38

to circle around and as seems this

1:00:40

phones at least in part under the

1:00:42

the auspices of Regenerative Medicine is gene

1:00:44

editing a thing a lot of people

1:00:46

write about. Chris Burn, surly De Evolution

1:00:48

Therapy may there is in your mind

1:00:50

and in the worth it you're doing

1:00:52

desert? Fall Under again. Because. Vagina,

1:00:54

Mr Vagina Medicine and The

1:00:56

Holy Grail Reside In Medicine

1:00:58

is basically this intersection between

1:01:01

South Therapy, Gene. Editing or

1:01:03

Gene Therapy and tissue Engineering and has

1:01:05

it all. Three of those is kind

1:01:07

of with the next era Medicine and

1:01:09

combining all three of those in a

1:01:11

very sophisticated ways is what's going. Allows

1:01:14

to regrow, are against and six any

1:01:16

disease. Known. To man, I think

1:01:18

if with as you were a bunch, Crisper

1:01:20

becomes a reality, he should be able to

1:01:22

fix any genetic defects. And this is we're

1:01:24

getting there. were not there yet, but that's

1:01:26

I think that can deathly happens as these

1:01:28

technologies continue to evolve. Yeah, so in super

1:01:30

simple terms was Christmas? was it? It. It's

1:01:32

basically at of and very simple level is

1:01:35

essentially just this bacteria it's called the cast

1:01:37

nine system and basically what it does as

1:01:39

you can take any sell out of your

1:01:41

body and you can basically like madden like

1:01:43

take scissors and cut cut off his coat

1:01:45

a dna it's that you know wanted their

1:01:47

and and you can spit it back together

1:01:49

and a to put it back in and

1:01:51

then he can change the genome in that

1:01:53

way But the problem is with Crisper is

1:01:55

that are some a got off I target

1:01:57

and this has been the biggest issue and

1:01:59

because people pie wonder why haven't we save

1:02:01

humanity If Crisper is a real deal you

1:02:03

know because it sounds interior sounds amazing but

1:02:06

there's there's all these off I target which

1:02:08

means they added things that we don't want

1:02:10

to two ns and there may be things

1:02:12

I have us unintended side effect and that's

1:02:14

why it took twelve years for one product

1:02:16

to come out violates the finally have one

1:02:18

for I think it's for Sickle Cell if

1:02:20

I'm if I'm not mistaken have it is

1:02:22

really matter recently at. Yeah

1:02:24

yeah, so I think that that's the

1:02:26

first as the A or you know,

1:02:28

or it was European approve products and

1:02:30

so. They. Took twelve years and that's

1:02:33

only one product and the has recess and

1:02:35

so I think we're We're still pretty far

1:02:37

away from seeing this become a reality it's

1:02:39

amassing. Prefer to that law potentially has a

1:02:41

huge potential bias is it just seems like

1:02:44

the commercial value of his can sick a

1:02:46

lot longer than we thought. Now the technology

1:02:48

were working with is called many circles and

1:02:50

I may be biased because I work with

1:02:52

them, but I think many cycles have a

1:02:54

lot more commercial value. They don't have a

1:02:57

seems power capability as crisper because we can't

1:02:59

cut out things and correct amps a weekend

1:03:01

as seems. To know what our

1:03:03

technology can do so we can add

1:03:05

any Jean and he peptide or protein

1:03:07

in the body up to ten thousand

1:03:09

and base pairs which is fairly big

1:03:11

but not as big as obviously Chris

1:03:13

Rock into Famous Do anything but again.

1:03:16

the good thing about our technology is

1:03:18

that there's no Asi targets. So what

1:03:20

is a mini circle? A many circle

1:03:22

is a plasmids that's derived from. Equal.

1:03:24

I a bacteria us and applause

1:03:27

mid is just something that is

1:03:29

used to exchange information so. Applause

1:03:31

Med is this when if you look at

1:03:34

under a microscope is a circle a strand

1:03:36

of dna and so has seen a mini

1:03:38

circle as it's like a mini circles and

1:03:40

you can insert whatever gene of interest you

1:03:42

want onto this many circles and then you

1:03:44

can injected into patient and they'll tell the

1:03:46

local sell their hey you have his new

1:03:48

information So your library now has a new

1:03:50

book and you can read that book and

1:03:53

they'll tell you to produce more of the

1:03:55

peptide a protein that we inserted onto this

1:03:57

mini circle so you can add anything that

1:03:59

we want. There are so you can imagine

1:04:01

a lot of possibilities because we can add

1:04:03

on any peptide and peptides or it's become

1:04:06

very popular in that in just general kind

1:04:08

of public Now because of as our backs

1:04:10

I but to so many other peptides that

1:04:12

we can do gene therapy forms are so

1:04:15

the first pilot we did was call follow

1:04:17

That and gene therapy and the reason we

1:04:19

chose false.in is because it's a it's been

1:04:21

around for twenty plus years, is very well

1:04:23

studied and we understand all the mechanisms and

1:04:26

beat It helps to preserve muscle mass and

1:04:28

me and increases muscle mass and meets. I

1:04:30

think we are and like we said earlier,

1:04:32

muscles deftly organ of longevity. As Doctor Gabrielle

1:04:34

Line of Assassins we know that if we

1:04:36

can help to slow down muscle loss and

1:04:38

or increase muscle gains we can to help

1:04:40

with your longevity and how span and so

1:04:42

that's why we chose Hostile as a first

1:04:44

target and so we basically it's a false

1:04:47

that and gene therapy is just an injection

1:04:49

in your arm or and it's it's not

1:04:51

changing your dna by all is doing is

1:04:53

adding the scene and is it's may tell

1:04:55

your saw the produce more false that aunts

1:04:57

and uncles into your blood and it does

1:04:59

what it does. Which as fast as about

1:05:01

ethical peptide hormones that allows you to

1:05:03

increase muscle mass and decreases systemic inflammation.

1:05:05

So it's quite powerful from aging And

1:05:07

we show that in a clinical trial

1:05:09

which is being published momentarily is available

1:05:12

our website as you want to read

1:05:14

it as many circles that I oh

1:05:16

but we are publishing it in the

1:05:18

journal were just deciding western or to

1:05:20

put in gotta and and is that

1:05:22

a permanent changes his short term the

1:05:24

do we Know Yet is the world's

1:05:26

first reversible plasma gene Therapy South's reversible

1:05:28

meeting You can take an antibody. Called

1:05:31

Tetracycline or Doxycycline Any anything in that class

1:05:33

and job as a kill switch so well

1:05:35

as a that's why is this is a

1:05:37

real cool technology because it's reversible and no

1:05:39

other does not A reversible gene therapy in

1:05:41

the world. And the other cool thing about

1:05:43

our technology is that it's temporary so because

1:05:45

was to see you know what to do

1:05:47

to get a Everyone was dizzy and after

1:05:49

wears off a loss for eighteen to twenty

1:05:51

four months. I saw it as were asked

1:05:53

for and then you can just get it

1:05:56

done again. So effectively if I'm

1:05:58

hearing right, You're. Adding list. The body

1:06:00

like there's either you don't have the dean

1:06:02

of the gene is damaged I'm that would

1:06:04

lead you produce and ends on this necessary

1:06:07

for you exactly. Maybe down the road Chris

1:06:09

Brassy can swap and like the right wanna

1:06:11

fix broken About what you're saying is this

1:06:13

technology effectively says well we can take that

1:06:15

like whatever later Sniff is and weekend says

1:06:17

he added in in addition to what's there's

1:06:20

even if the one that you have isn't

1:06:22

functioning. You've. Now got like this

1:06:24

section one that's that's gonna make it

1:06:26

generate what she needs. Yeah exactly. That's

1:06:28

why it's a good technology for conditions

1:06:30

like cystic fibrosis where they're not making

1:06:32

enough of a protein red and that

1:06:34

causes Apps Oaks We have all these

1:06:36

were conditions that I believe we can

1:06:38

really changes people's lives. We're we're starting

1:06:41

out with kind of longevity and cause

1:06:43

metics. We have copper pepto gene therapy

1:06:45

coming out of but the reason we're

1:06:47

doing that is because. Those. Are

1:06:49

the ones that go with derek revenue so

1:06:51

we can reinvest into the more rare and

1:06:53

more. I think once our going to really

1:06:55

change people's lives. Now it'd save.

1:06:57

My mind is exploding with the potential of

1:06:59

Sinhalese as you were doing this every day

1:07:02

as Iskandariya like. Had even so late

1:07:04

to figure out why do I so for sciences

1:07:06

or something of an easy target our different races

1:07:08

if you go. Yeah, were between this

1:07:10

and cellular Engineer in my mind is very

1:07:12

entertained is as end to certain Senate sounds

1:07:14

a bit like this. what you're just talking

1:07:17

paths may business a long term thing, but

1:07:19

maybe this bridges the gap between now and

1:07:21

when Chris for his appointees as Se Si

1:07:23

or enough where you can actually make the

1:07:25

genetic swap and then like that last realize

1:07:28

yeah exactly. I could see Crisper taking off

1:07:30

at Benchley and they'll just be an unbelievable

1:07:32

when it ourself of either the things that

1:07:34

we've talked about of things we haven't talked

1:07:36

about yet his early. One thing that your

1:07:39

most. Excited about right now. He.

1:07:41

I think the thing I'm most

1:07:43

excited about is definitely putting the

1:07:45

Yamanaka factors into our gene therapies.

1:07:47

So basically the Yamanaka factors are

1:07:49

for transcription factors that were you

1:07:51

that we talked about that basically

1:07:54

make the old tell young again

1:07:56

but we can take those who

1:07:58

we can take their to call

1:08:00

oh fk and then see. Dash

1:08:02

and Y C but that last ones

1:08:04

is the one that's associate with turret

1:08:07

like tumors and cancer but you can

1:08:09

use O S K and you can

1:08:11

still get cellular reprogramming and so not

1:08:13

may be as strong but he still

1:08:15

make an old sound relatively young against

1:08:17

to what we're going to do as

1:08:19

we have put the as case into

1:08:21

a plasma gene therapies and then we're

1:08:23

going that explore going to have trial

1:08:25

where we can see if we can

1:08:27

produce and eight organs and make them

1:08:29

young again and ten. Holy grail he

1:08:31

says it's pretty exciting said. That is a

1:08:33

reason to get up in the morning to

1:08:35

simulate dive into all of us. Yeah and

1:08:37

the one work and as the first either

1:08:39

organ I want to do first is the

1:08:41

famous because at the time as gland is

1:08:43

this little bland that sits around your sternum

1:08:45

at it in pollutes which means asserts atrophy

1:08:48

hangs as sincere basically a camp and so

1:08:50

and just become smaller and smaller as get

1:08:52

older and it becomes pretty useless by times

1:08:54

you know your urine in your sixties seventies

1:08:56

which means that and that's why so many

1:08:58

people get chronic diseases as they get older

1:09:00

to the time is kind of so important.

1:09:02

For regular your immune system now so if we

1:09:04

can do so I miss regeneration and then we're

1:09:06

talking Now that's amazing I had to say said

1:09:09

it's so exciting on the ceiling is a cool

1:09:11

time to be live on a console in this

1:09:13

stuff is a good place for us to come

1:09:15

full circle in our conversation as well. So in

1:09:17

this contain have been my project. If I am

1:09:20

from the phrase to live a good life or

1:09:22

thumbs up. Peace.

1:09:25

Being. At peace with where you're at

1:09:27

and license. Being. Content with what

1:09:29

you asked and with with we have the with. Me:

1:09:32

Thank you. Death. Thanks for having missed.

1:09:36

Me before he leaves. He loved this

1:09:38

episode say they don't Also love the

1:09:40

commercials and we had with Doctor Franklin

1:09:42

Men About the Six Pillars of Weldon

1:09:44

to find a link to francs episode

1:09:46

and descendants. This episode of Their Life

1:09:48

Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay

1:09:50

Fast and Me Jonathan Feals editing helped

1:09:52

by Alexandre Ramirez, Christopher Card aircraft in

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1:09:57

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1:09:59

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