2:00

and deeply personal stories to help

2:02

you find clarity amidst life's confusions

2:04

and choose freedom in every present

2:06

moment. So excited to share

2:09

this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields

2:11

and this is Good Life Project. Ryan

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where you go. The real a

6:00

bed to sleep in. That's depressed.

6:03

Very paranoid as well.

6:05

Just blind fear. And

6:08

three children that I was trying to

6:10

raise at the same time and make

6:12

the house payment, etc. And,

6:14

you know, a life ended. And I

6:17

was still breathing. But one

6:19

day as I lay sleeping on the floor,

6:21

actually, a cockroach

6:23

called over my foot. And I opened

6:25

my eyes. And

6:28

it's as though I was just

6:30

witnessing. You know, I

6:32

was just witnessing. I was just—you know, I

6:35

don't have a description for

6:37

that yet. I don't

6:39

know how to speak of it. Maybe I'll never understand

6:41

how to speak of it. But

6:44

what I did see is

6:46

that when I believed my thoughts, I

6:49

suffered. And when I didn't

6:52

believe my thoughts, I didn't suffer. And I

6:54

saw that on the floor. I more than

6:56

saw it. I experienced it. Because it's

6:58

like this witness, this unspeakable

7:01

witness, was just seen.

7:03

And it was like a

7:05

birth into the world of just

7:07

consciousness and just pure consciousness. And

7:09

then I saw that as

7:12

thoughts began to hit my head, everything

7:15

began to have a name, like

7:18

window and sky and ceiling and

7:20

floor and even Katie. It

7:23

was—everything had an end at that point.

7:25

I began to laugh. And

7:27

it's like I just

7:29

got some kind of great

7:32

joke that had been played

7:34

on all of us. You

7:36

know, I've seen that all

7:39

of us in the world, we believe our

7:41

thoughts, we suffer. But to question them, you

7:43

know, that's the way out of this maze

7:45

for me. And so, of course, I invite

7:47

people to identify their

7:49

judgments and assumptions when

7:51

they're hurt and—or suffering

7:54

in any way, that

7:56

they just identify those judgments and

7:59

assumptions and— question them. And I

8:01

also, Jay, love to say that the way

8:03

to question, there are only four questions, and

8:05

the work, I call it the work, it's

8:08

always free at thework.com. Everything

8:10

I have that has any value is free there

8:12

and how to do it. And it's anyone

8:15

with an open mind can do this. I

8:18

think of other people suffering unnecessarily,

8:20

which was my case. And I

8:22

think anyone that suffers, once

8:24

we learn how to question the cause

8:26

of suffering, we

8:29

begin to experience a life worth living.

8:32

It was speaking with a friend a while

8:34

back. It was interesting because his lens on

8:36

depression was, so many people

8:39

would say the opposite of depression is happiness.

8:42

He had an interesting lens, which I'm curious what

8:44

your thoughts are, which is that he

8:47

felt the opposite of depression was curiosity. Exactly

8:49

so. And I think a questioned

8:52

mind, an inquiring mind, is

8:55

a curious mind because without

8:57

what we're believing, everything

9:00

opens up. So it really is that,

9:02

I love that. When you were in your

9:05

darkest time, you mentioned you had three kids.

9:08

Have you talked with them over the years about

9:11

how they were experiencing you

9:13

during that window and then upon

9:15

this awakening, how that shifted for

9:17

them? Just over and over

9:19

and over and over. Anytime we're together, this

9:22

shows up and in

9:24

one way or another, even

9:26

in just very small minor

9:28

ways now, but actually every

9:30

year on my birthday, we all

9:32

get together, my three children and me.

9:35

We spend three days together and oh,

9:38

it is marvelous. And

9:40

now there's just not a lot

9:42

to talk about. Everyone's so respectful

9:44

and understanding and kind. It's

9:47

as though one person gets free

9:50

and it changes the entire family

9:52

dynamic. But originally as

9:54

you asked the question where my mind

9:56

also went was, my daughter for one

9:59

thing said. So

14:02

when people are talking out

14:04

of what I'm describing now, but

14:07

once we become aware of that is

14:09

not self in the past, and

14:12

that is not self I see

14:14

in the future, then

14:16

we're no longer confused about false

14:20

identity, false worlds.

14:24

And it's so easy just to be

14:26

just right here, right now. It's so

14:28

simple. I think the depression I came

14:30

out of, I'm just so grateful that

14:32

this is all there is. And

14:35

there's no worry in my life

14:37

because I don't anticipate, even

14:40

though my mind can see what we

14:42

would call past future, there's

14:44

nothing concrete about it, so

14:46

therefore nothing to worry

14:49

over. And so my

14:51

life is about just

14:53

saying yes and moving

14:56

inquiry to as many people as

14:58

possible. The

15:00

end of suffering, the absence of suffering, because

15:03

we make better choices that way.

15:06

We're kinder, we're

15:08

connected, we're wiser

15:10

because we're in touch with wisdom. And

15:15

as you mentioned earlier, one of my

15:17

favorites, Curious. One of

15:19

the things that came to me when

15:22

I first heard your story and sort

15:24

of like the moment and how it's

15:27

changed you since then is

15:29

that often when

15:31

you hear a story of somebody

15:33

who's awakened in some way, in

15:36

some level there is, along

15:38

with that, some sort of

15:41

almost dissociative experience. The

15:44

sort of Western world, the modern lens

15:47

and medicine wants to label that. They

15:50

want to label that as something wrong,

15:52

as disease, as a condition. I'm curious

15:55

whether that was part of your early

15:57

journey, sort of like, You

42:00

know that's that's also a part of my belief system

42:02

is like you get free. You

42:04

know i'm talking about. Awakening like

42:07

you're waiting to the nature of

42:09

reality and you just head on

42:11

you know you're like you know

42:13

i. I

42:16

think that's fine. But for

42:19

me i choose to

42:21

whatever realization i experience

42:23

i choose to return

42:25

back. Two places to

42:27

help people come out of the

42:30

same kinds of suffering i was able to come

42:32

out of i only did that

42:34

because there are people who came back and got

42:36

me. Right

42:38

so i had teachers who

42:41

did this for me they had teachers

42:43

who did that for them that's what's called

42:45

lineage. You

42:48

know there are people who have come

42:50

back over and over and over again

42:52

and have sacrifice immensely

42:54

in order to pull

42:56

people out of the

42:58

trauma of the violence and

43:01

because i realized

43:03

what has been done for me then

43:05

i also am ethically mandated to offer

43:07

that same help. To

43:10

others. Yeah.

43:14

Interestingly i mean it's also you

43:16

describe this impulse towards

43:18

service and teaching from a very young age

43:20

and it's also returning to that impulse for you.

43:23

You know it's sort of like if

43:25

there's a script that has run in your head for

43:28

you know as long as you remember that says this

43:30

is part of why i'm here. You

43:33

know that then that's sort of like it's part of the part

43:35

of the path. You know for for you the 15 years or

43:37

so that you've described and that you're still within. It

43:43

sounds like it really does

43:45

begin with this introduction to

43:47

buddhism you know you move

43:49

through the traditional church upbringing

43:52

to a certain extent black radicalism and prophetic tradition becomes your

43:54

church. In a certain way for a certain window

43:57

of your life. me

48:00

all the difference. I mean, that well, that

48:02

has shaped the way that I teach and

48:06

offer instruction. Yeah, I mean,

48:09

it sounds like that becomes really the

48:11

foundation of this, the notion of radical

48:13

Dharma, right? You know, spiritual liberation is

48:16

bound to social

48:19

liberation, to societal liberation and

48:21

that you can't

48:23

just do the work outside, you know, with the

48:25

external circumstances, you got to work on the outside

48:27

world and also the inside world. Exactly. And

48:30

there's no way to unbind them. Mm-hmm.

48:33

Absolutely. And

48:35

I was kind of wondering through the world,

48:39

you know, until I met

48:41

Reverend Angel, you know, and

48:44

we got together and we

48:47

started like creating this

48:49

kind of notion of radical Dharma. And

48:53

that for me was a way to ground all

48:55

of these things that I was thinking about that

48:57

didn't really have a foundation at

49:00

all, nor a container,

49:04

you know, to kind of place them in and radical

49:06

Dharma became that container for me. And

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By teaming with Bank of America. in

52:00

the world. How do we tend to the

52:02

wound beneath the anger? I think the word specifically you

52:04

wrote, if we don't wrestle with the anger,

52:06

we never get to the heartbreak. And if we don't get

52:08

to the heartbreak, we don't get to the healing. Yeah.

52:12

So many people

52:15

are bypassing the

52:17

heartbreak and you

52:20

have to go to the wound. How

52:23

do you heal if you're not dealing with the wound

52:25

itself? I

52:28

know absolutely that it's

52:30

terrifying. Absolutely. I go to these

52:32

places regularly, actually. But I

52:35

know that healing can only happen

52:40

if I go and if I show up and

52:42

offer a lot of space, the

52:44

woundedness. Right. And

52:47

that over time we begin to see that the

52:49

woundedness is just a teacher for us. But

52:52

even the woundedness is trying to love us.

52:56

Right. And it's loving us because it's showing us

53:00

where it is. And it's

53:02

being vulnerable and open. If

53:04

we can just pay attention. And

53:08

of course, the whole process, paying attention,

53:10

holding space, letting go over and over

53:12

again. That's a really basic

53:15

and simple practice over

53:18

and over. But the letting go, that's

53:20

the trick. Well,

53:22

I mean, Reverend Angel adds

53:24

to, I think, the way that

53:27

you phrased it and I think introduces

53:29

the notion of grief. Part of that

53:31

letting go is also a process of

53:33

grieving a certain state that has

53:36

in no small way defined your

53:38

daily existence. Yeah.

53:42

You know, and it's the ways

53:44

in which we also, we

53:49

have used

53:51

things to create a

53:53

sense of self. And

53:55

when those things are disrupted, then

53:57

our sense of self is disrupted.

53:59

And that's where the loss arises.

54:05

Stevie Nicks and

54:09

Sezen Landslide, I've

54:12

built my whole life around you. I've

54:15

been afraid of changing. It's

54:19

just one of my favorite songs, actually.

54:21

That's the song that I am often

54:24

reflecting on. Because

54:27

a lot of us get

54:29

stuck because we've used things around us in

54:31

relationships and people to define a sense of

54:33

who we are. We

54:36

don't want to disrupt that, but it

54:38

will be disrupted because things change. Things

54:42

die, things are destroyed, things dissipate.

54:47

We're always changing. And if we choose not to

54:49

show up to that change, there's

54:51

the grieving there. We

54:54

have to choose the grieving

54:56

in order to negotiate the

54:58

energy of loss. The energy,

55:00

well, the energy specifically of

55:04

longing for

55:06

permanence. Yeah,

55:12

I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Part

55:14

of what I'm wondering also, as I hear you share that,

55:16

is when,

55:19

on the one hand, you

55:22

feel the weight of

55:25

current and present harm. You

55:28

see the systems all around

55:30

you that continue to create that.

55:34

And there's a deep wounding

55:36

underneath, but also this rate and anger

55:38

on the surface. And if you

55:41

view the anger as the

55:43

source fuel for change,

55:46

then choosing

55:49

to step away from that can

55:52

be conflated with choosing to step

55:54

away from a commitment to

55:57

change. rather

56:00

than saying, well, is there

56:02

another source of fuel? Well,

56:05

that's the misconception, anger is

56:08

in fueling our

56:10

work of liberation. It's love that fuels

56:12

the work of liberation. Tell

56:15

me more. You know, love is something that many of

56:17

us have been beat over

56:19

the head with. Again, I grew up in the

56:21

South. I

56:23

live in Atlanta now, and

56:25

I live like a mile mile

56:27

from Dr. King's, the MLK

56:30

National Memorial site. So

56:34

it's like, oh, you know, and growing

56:36

up with Dr. King, you know, my

56:38

whole life in Georgia was love, love,

56:41

love, love, love, love that enemy, love,

56:43

love, love. You know, I just got sick of that.

56:46

You know, as I got older, because

56:48

I just, I didn't see, or

56:51

I didn't understand how to connect to

56:53

actual examples of love. I was being

56:55

loved and cared for. I just

56:57

didn't get that, you know?

56:59

And I didn't understand love until

57:02

I began this really

57:04

intense work of loving myself. And

57:06

then that's where love actually came into

57:08

focus. And I said, oh, this is

57:10

not this romantic idealized,

57:14

you know, thing. It's just, this is this

57:16

hard work of learning

57:18

how to accept myself into a whole

57:20

space for all of the woundedness. And

57:25

going through that and saying, you know what, it's okay,

57:27

and I'm not the only one. You

57:30

know, over and over again. And so understanding

57:34

that and coming back

57:36

out into liberation struggle, the

57:38

struggle for me, or my

57:41

work in the struggle is fueled by

57:43

my deep wish for people to be safe

57:45

and happy. That's what

57:47

fuels the work. That's

57:51

what makes the work sustainable. Because

57:54

I believe all beings, regardless

57:56

of who you are, regardless of how much

57:58

you hurt me, deserve to

58:00

be free, safe, and

58:02

happy. And

58:05

that's what motivates the work.

58:08

Now, the anger is still there.

58:11

And the anger actually helps

58:13

me to understand what's

58:16

wrong in

58:18

how things are wrong. It reminds me

58:20

that I'm still connected to

58:23

the world, and to the welfare of beings, and

58:25

to the welfare of myself. It

58:27

reminds me that there's hurt. It's

58:30

still present. And

58:32

that I can use that energy of anger as

58:36

I take care of myself, I

58:38

can use that energy and channel it back

58:40

into the work of

58:42

liberation. Because

58:45

it keeps me sensitive to

58:47

the world around me. It keeps

58:49

me sensitive to the realities of others

58:52

around me, as well, particularly. It

58:55

always tells me that they're still

58:57

in balance. And

59:02

of course, there are all kinds of different

59:04

angers. Righteous anger, for instance, which

59:07

is still legitimate. We've

59:10

been hurt in really significant ways because

59:13

of injustice. Anger arises from

59:15

that. I have a right to be with that. And

59:19

I have a right to be heard. I

59:21

have a right for my anger to be held

59:23

and witnessed. And

59:26

the wounding that comes, for

59:30

many of us, comes from the ways

59:32

in which our anger has been erased,

59:35

sidetracked, invalidated. Your

59:40

anger is an importance. Who cares?

59:44

Or in my case, my

59:46

anger is dangerous. Because

59:49

my anger actually highlights the fact that

59:51

there's a debt that's

59:54

owed. It's

59:57

so powerful in a lot of ways. My

1:00:01

curiosity around that also is that

1:00:04

the shift where you're not entirely letting go of

1:00:06

the anger because you can't. And

1:00:08

it's important not to the extent

1:00:10

that it is a signal

1:00:13

of the work still yet to

1:00:16

be done and the existence of

1:00:19

harm and sources of harm in the world still

1:00:22

to this day. And yet if

1:00:25

that remains, tell me

1:00:27

if I'm getting this right, if that remains

1:00:29

the central source fuel of

1:00:31

what motivates you. It

1:00:33

may motivate action, but it simultaneously

1:00:35

consumes you. So it's

1:00:38

almost like letting, shifting

1:00:40

anger to the signal that tells

1:00:42

you, almost like your compass and

1:00:45

shifting love or

1:00:48

these indicia, the way you describe love rather

1:00:50

than the sort of holiday

1:00:53

card notion of it that we're talking

1:00:55

about. It's not an offering to other

1:00:57

people. It is an act of

1:00:59

self-care, of self-preservation, of saying that like I matter and

1:01:01

this is the way that I can still do the

1:01:03

work in the world and be

1:01:06

able to take care of myself along the way.

1:01:09

I think that's absolutely right. And

1:01:11

that also that

1:01:14

love is the container for

1:01:17

the anger. Like my

1:01:19

anger expresses itself within

1:01:21

the energy of love. That

1:01:25

love is what helps me to

1:01:27

remember that

1:01:29

people are human and

1:01:32

suffer just like me. No

1:01:34

matter if you're being violent towards me, you're

1:01:36

still human. You're not evil. You're not all

1:01:38

the things that we like to say about

1:01:40

people, but you're still human. Someone loves you

1:01:44

and you love someone else. My

1:01:48

early teacher around love used

1:01:50

to always say that no

1:01:53

matter how vile someone seems, someone

1:01:56

loves them and that they

1:01:58

love someone. And that's evidence

1:02:01

that love can be cultivated for

1:02:04

them, even if

1:02:06

they're choosing not to embrace that and express

1:02:08

that in the moments that

1:02:10

they're expressing violence towards you. And

1:02:14

this isn't, you know, I know people listen to

1:02:16

this and they say, oh, this is so, you

1:02:18

know, whatever, right? Love, whatever,

1:02:20

and I come from that. You

1:02:23

have just, I come from a place where I

1:02:25

was like, fuck love. Let's

1:02:27

just go and burn everything down. Right,

1:02:30

you know, and then getting older,

1:02:33

deepening the practice, it

1:02:36

was important for me to

1:02:38

understand that, no, actually, I wanna

1:02:42

be sustainable. Like,

1:02:44

I wanna create instead

1:02:47

of destroying things. Like,

1:02:50

I don't think it's

1:02:52

cool for the world to

1:02:55

become an

1:02:58

object of my anger, or

1:03:00

a target for my anger, you

1:03:02

know? Like,

1:03:07

because I struggle, it doesn't mean the whole

1:03:09

world should be burned down. But,

1:03:12

I mean, it's easy, or the

1:03:15

one that's easy to say that, but when you say, because

1:03:17

I struggle, it doesn't mean the whole world should be burned

1:03:19

down, and yet, if you perceive the world as

1:03:21

the source of your struggle, it's

1:03:24

complicated. Well, and that's, and

1:03:26

what's complicated, because we don't see it

1:03:28

as complicated. Yeah.

1:03:31

Like, it's too simple. The world is the

1:03:33

cause of my suffering. Well, what's the world

1:03:35

to begin with? The world isn't

1:03:38

just like one solid

1:03:40

thing. The world is a complex eco,

1:03:42

you know, ecological system

1:03:45

of these different parts, you know, creating

1:03:48

different realities for different people. So,

1:03:51

you know, part of that is stepping

1:03:53

back and

1:03:55

holding space for our suffering. And

1:03:58

then the world, this idea

1:04:00

of the world changes significantly.

1:04:04

For me early on, yeah,

1:04:06

my practice in the world

1:04:08

was this huge antagonist. The

1:04:11

world was just this antagonist that was trying

1:04:13

to kill me. And

1:04:15

then once I started the practice, I

1:04:17

began to see that actually I was

1:04:19

trying to be loved by

1:04:22

different aspects of the world.

1:04:24

There were people trying to love me. Right?

1:04:28

I never realized that. And

1:04:31

that expression of love was

1:04:34

experiences that I started hooking on to

1:04:37

and holding on to, that people

1:04:40

were trying to get me free

1:04:44

through kindness, through emotional

1:04:46

labor, through service

1:04:48

for me. You know, my

1:04:50

mother, my family, they

1:04:53

were trying to get me free. I

1:04:55

just didn't get that. The church was trying to get

1:04:57

me free in a specific

1:05:00

way that I didn't get. Right?

1:05:04

You know, and so I

1:05:06

began to see that and say, and I began

1:05:08

to say, oh, okay, the world is

1:05:10

actually full of love. But

1:05:13

my hurt, my trauma blocks that

1:05:15

because trauma becomes a lens that

1:05:18

we view everything out of. If

1:05:20

we're not taking care of the trauma, the

1:05:23

wind blowing becomes

1:05:26

a traumatic experience.

1:05:28

I mean, puppies

1:05:30

and kittens can

1:05:32

be, I mean, that's just kind of the reality

1:05:34

of trauma itself. You know, for many of us,

1:05:36

yeah, we can't help that. Like we

1:05:39

get triggered. We can't help that. Right?

1:05:42

But that's also the nature of trauma. Everything

1:05:44

is colored by

1:05:46

this, you know, this

1:05:49

energy that we're

1:05:51

trying to move through, this stuck in our

1:05:53

experience. You know,

1:05:55

this creating these obstacles of perception

1:05:57

and experience. Yeah,

1:06:00

and not all of us are going to make it. That's

1:06:03

a big part of it. This

1:06:06

sounds really great. And I say, all you have

1:06:08

to do is pay attention and do this and

1:06:10

that and read my book and you'll be fine.

1:06:13

It's just really not the reality either. It's not

1:06:15

all of us will have the

1:06:17

capacity to embrace love

1:06:19

in this life and this body. Yeah, I

1:06:21

mean, there's a huge part of the

1:06:25

process is, and I guess this

1:06:27

is what a lot of the practice is that you speak to and

1:06:29

that you write about and that you teach revolve

1:06:32

around, I think, seeing

1:06:34

more clearly, not welcoming,

1:06:36

but acknowledging discomfort,

1:06:39

unease, allowing yourself

1:06:41

to experience it rather than

1:06:44

doing everything possible to

1:06:46

push it away. And that doesn't mean being

1:06:48

complacent in your circumstance. It

1:06:50

means acknowledging that this is my reality in

1:06:52

this moment in time rather than sort of

1:06:54

like living in a delusional state

1:06:57

and then embracing the practices that say, well, like,

1:06:59

how can I be okay in this moment in

1:07:01

time without saying I'm not going to take action

1:07:04

externally. I'm not going to walk away from this,

1:07:06

but at the same time, how can I be okay through

1:07:09

my own experience, through my own practices,

1:07:12

through my own intentions? Yeah, I mean,

1:07:15

whether we are talking about in the context

1:07:17

of race, in the context of trauma that

1:07:19

has happened in any other part of life,

1:07:21

in the context of the

1:07:23

source of any suffering that is deep and

1:07:25

sustained, these are the

1:07:27

questions and they're brutally hard

1:07:30

ones to grapple with. And there's no,

1:07:32

I think, the American mindset, the

1:07:34

Western mindset is so

1:07:36

pill-based. Where's the switch

1:07:38

that I can flip to make this all

1:07:40

to fix it? Rather

1:07:43

than, oh, what if

1:07:45

the answer is a sustained and

1:07:47

long commitment to a series

1:07:49

of actions and practices and ways of

1:07:51

being without immediate

1:07:53

gratification? Well, that's called

1:07:55

work. Yeah. and

1:08:00

we can't always expect to be

1:08:02

comfortable in the work.

1:08:07

And it's not just this lifetime, and my

1:08:09

belief system is multiple times that we're working.

1:08:12

We do pieces at a time,

1:08:14

life after life. We get a piece, we

1:08:17

do what we can. We

1:08:19

go to the next one. And that's

1:08:21

something that I have found to be

1:08:23

very true from my experiences,

1:08:27

birth and rebirth and so forth. You know

1:08:29

that like, I have

1:08:31

a clear sense of what my work is in

1:08:35

this life. You know, we talked about this earlier,

1:08:37

like when I was younger, I already knew what

1:08:39

I was gonna be doing, you

1:08:41

know, at a young age. I just didn't

1:08:44

know how that was gonna happen. Nor

1:08:46

did I know that I knew. Like

1:08:49

I just had these vague impressions of what I

1:08:51

thought I would do. You

1:08:54

know, the teaching, the religion,

1:08:56

the service, the

1:08:58

mental health, like all those things were

1:09:01

really important to me. And

1:09:03

I tried to get into these things in

1:09:05

really different ways, and all of a sudden

1:09:07

this happens. It's like, no, actually,

1:09:09

who doesn't? It's actually how you're gonna

1:09:11

get into this door of doing all of this. You

1:09:16

know, there's a lot, you know, even

1:09:18

there, even then there's a lot of

1:09:22

teaching around, again,

1:09:25

the Black prophetic tradition. How

1:09:28

do we read to the

1:09:30

times? Like how do we show up and

1:09:32

pay attention to what's happening now? Because

1:09:35

what's happening now is just a pattern

1:09:37

that's gonna keep repeating itself over and

1:09:39

over and over again. Right,

1:09:42

if I can just learn the pattern and

1:09:44

I enter into this kind of profound path

1:09:46

where I'm actually being taken care of, when

1:09:48

we enter the pattern, we're being cared for.

1:09:52

Because the pattern is just, it's

1:09:54

the energy that we've created that's

1:09:56

actually propelling us towards freedom, towards

1:09:59

liberation. So virtue, so

1:10:01

virtue is path that

1:10:04

we enter into. And

1:10:07

to acknowledge that means that we get

1:10:09

swept up into something

1:10:12

that is leading us towards freedom. Hmm,

1:10:15

feels like a good place for us to come full circle in

1:10:17

our conversation as well. So sitting

1:10:20

in this container of Good Life Project, if

1:10:22

I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what

1:10:25

comes up? For me

1:10:27

to live a good life means

1:10:30

that I'm living a life that

1:10:32

is as clear and

1:10:34

conscious as possible. But

1:10:38

I know as much as I can about

1:10:40

how I'm showing up and how I'm impacting

1:10:42

the world around me. Hmm,

1:10:45

thank you. So

1:10:48

I love being able to learn from

1:10:50

Byron K.D. and Lamara Owens, two humble

1:10:52

teachers who have courageously walked the path

1:10:54

of radical self-inquiry and liberation. By

1:10:56

really learning to question our thoughts and beliefs

1:10:59

with unwavering honesty and also tenderly

1:11:01

holding even our most difficult emotions,

1:11:03

they show us how to find freedom from suffering

1:11:05

right here, right now. So

1:11:08

may their insights ignite a spark within

1:11:10

you to just keep questioning, keep exploring,

1:11:12

and keep awakening to your truest self.

1:11:15

And if you love this episode, be sure to

1:11:17

catch the full conversations with today's guests. You can

1:11:19

find a link to those episodes in the show

1:11:21

notes. This episode of

1:11:24

Good Life Project was produced by

1:11:26

executive producers Lindsey Fox and me,

1:11:28

Jonathan Fields, Christopher Carter, Crafted Our

1:11:30

Theme Music, and special thanks

1:11:32

to Shelly Adell for her research on

1:11:34

this episode. And of course, if you

1:11:37

haven't already done so, please go ahead

1:11:39

and follow Good Life Project in your

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favorite listening app. And if you found

1:11:43

this conversation interesting or inspiring or valuable,

1:11:46

and chances are you did since you're

1:11:48

still listening here, would you do me a

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personal favor, a seven second favor, and share

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it? Maybe on social or by text or

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by email, even just with one person. Just

1:11:57

copy the link from the app you're using.

1:12:00

And tell those you know, those you

1:12:02

love, those you want to help navigate

1:12:04

this thing called life a little better

1:12:06

so we can all do it better

1:12:08

together with more ease and more joy.

1:12:11

Tell them to listen. Then even invite

1:12:13

them to talk about what you've both

1:12:15

discovered because when podcasts become conversations and

1:12:17

conversations become action, that's how we all

1:12:19

come alive together. Until next time, I'm

1:12:22

Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good

1:12:24

Life Project.