0:00

Every person has three different types of gifts.

0:02

There's your humanity, which is who you are

0:04

as a person. That's what shows up in

0:06

those helping moments, when you're with somebody you

0:08

love and you want to be there. There's

0:10

your wisdom, what you've learned from the unique

0:13

life that you've lived that nobody else will

0:15

ever have access to. And then there's your

0:17

talent, which is all the great things you

0:19

know how to do or you want to

0:21

learn how to do. And the funny thing

0:23

is, though, is that your humanity gifts are

0:26

the most reliable source of happiness because they

0:28

connect you to other people. And they allow

0:30

you to express all of your inner

0:32

goodness. So if we neglect those, then

0:34

often we're neglecting a really big source

0:37

of well-being. So

0:40

what if the pursuit of happiness itself

0:43

is actually making you less

0:45

happy? My guest today,

0:47

Stephanie Harrison, she challenges the way that we've

0:49

been conditioned to think about happiness in her

0:51

new book, New Happy, Getting Happiness Right in

0:54

a World That's Got It Wrong. In

0:56

the second chapter of her book, she introduces

0:58

the concept of what she calls the

1:00

happiness myth. It's all about the lies that we

1:03

have been told about how to be happy, like

1:05

chasing achievements, accumulating wealth and focusing

1:08

only on ourselves and

1:10

so many other elements. And she describes from

1:12

her own experience directly aiming

1:14

for happiness often backfires. Yet

1:16

that is exactly what so many of

1:18

us spend so much of our waking lives

1:21

doing. I found that in my

1:23

own life that the more I cling to happiness

1:25

as a direct goal, the more elusive it becomes.

1:28

And Stephanie really encourages us to

1:30

unravel the cultural conditioning and

1:32

narratives that led us to this point.

1:35

Instead of pursuing happiness, she offers a refreshing

1:38

approach that centered around sharing our

1:40

unique gifts with others, our humanity,

1:42

wisdom and talents with a

1:44

really interesting and innovative new framework. Imagine

1:47

being able to tap into a deeper well

1:49

being, one that ripples out and elevates not

1:52

just yourself, but everyone around you, too. What

1:54

would your life look like if you could

1:56

get happiness right? That's where we're

1:58

headed today. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is... This

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Sleep Number store or

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sleepnumber.com. It's

3:49

interesting. I feel like the

3:51

sort of the quote canon of happiness

3:53

books was kicked off. I

3:56

guess more than a decade ago now with Dan

3:58

Gilbert's book, you know, like Stellion Happiness. And

4:00

then Jonathan Hike came after it, and then just a series

4:02

of books in it. And all of a sudden, everyone's like,

4:05

whoa, the world of positive psych

4:07

has been into this for decades before, but

4:09

now it really became part of the public

4:11

conversation in a different way. And

4:14

I feel like we just keep

4:16

having better and better understandings of

4:18

how to explore these ideas and from

4:20

different voices and different perspectives. For

4:23

you, it sounds like this is also

4:25

really personal. Hmm, yeah.

4:28

I think with a topic like

4:30

happiness or any of the work that we

4:32

do, how do you separate the personal out

4:34

of it, right? Because you get to benefit

4:36

in so many ways from learning this knowledge.

4:38

But for me, it was motivated

4:41

in part by my own profound unhappiness and

4:43

the struggles that I had trying to find

4:45

a way to be happy where nothing ever

4:48

really worked for me. Take

4:50

me into that a little bit. Tell me what was going on

4:52

and what led you to sort of say, like, I need to

4:54

really explore this. When I think back to

4:56

my childhood and my young adult life as a

4:58

teenager and into my

5:00

early twenties, I don't remember

5:02

being very happy. I don't

5:04

have these emotional

5:07

experiences that really had any level of

5:09

any sort of joy or positivity I

5:12

felt was very intense and short-lived and

5:14

then quickly faded away. There wasn't anything

5:16

that felt like it provided me with

5:18

a grounding or any sort of stability.

5:22

And often those highs were also

5:24

accompanied by lows that lasted for a long

5:26

time and were hard to get out of.

5:28

And for me, what

5:31

really started to change things was when I had

5:33

gone through and sort of checked off this list

5:35

of all the things that I thought I had

5:37

to do in order to be happy. And

5:39

then I looked at my life and I looked

5:42

at myself and I thought, why am I still

5:44

so miserable? What's wrong with me? And

5:46

it was only in that moment that I realized,

5:48

well, maybe something isn't wrong with me at all.

5:50

Maybe I just was given the wrong manual to

5:53

pursue this goal of happiness that I

5:55

have. And maybe I should look into that a little

5:57

bit more. And little did I know that that would...

6:00

end up dictating the next 10 years of my life.

6:02

Yeah, I mean it's interesting. I

6:05

know you ended up at University of Pennsylvania in

6:08

their master's in positive psych, which I have

6:10

a number of friends who've

6:12

been through from the second class

6:14

up until fairly recently. When

6:17

you decide to say this is actually becoming so

6:19

important to me, I really need to understand this,

6:21

that you want to devote yourself to a year

6:23

of going and getting your degree in it.

6:26

Was it more personal or did you have a sense

6:28

underneath that you wanted to actually transform this into something

6:30

that you would then turn around and somehow

6:32

bring to the world? At that point

6:35

I felt this was the time that I

6:37

decided to go to Penn and do the

6:39

degree was probably about two

6:41

and a half or three years after that moment, that

6:43

low point in my life. And I

6:45

had sort of figured out a lot of the

6:47

personal stuff for me at that point. I had

6:49

identified here are some of the problems and here

6:52

are some few ways to fix it. But what

6:54

I was really motivated by was discovering that there

6:56

was this research underpinning it and how

6:58

I could learn more about that. I felt like

7:00

I had kind of come to the point where

7:03

my personal study, I was in a good spot,

7:05

but there was so much more I wanted to

7:08

learn and I needed help and support and teaching

7:10

to help me to be able to get a

7:12

firmer grasp on it. And my

7:14

hope was always to take whatever

7:16

I learned out of my own pain and share it

7:18

with others in hopes that maybe they could

7:21

avoid it or at least maybe get out

7:23

of it a little faster than I did. So

7:25

it was always motivated by that. And

7:28

specifically, I was just so

7:30

enthralled by the idea that there were these

7:32

scientists out there studying these really hard topics

7:34

that I'd always been obsessed with and

7:36

inspired by from a spiritual perspective or

7:39

from a religious or kind of all

7:41

these other different angles on well being.

7:44

But the scientific one was something that felt

7:46

really interesting and appealing. Yeah, it's

7:48

so interesting. I think we do

7:50

have such a robust body of science

7:52

around the study and the exploration that

7:55

happens. I remember one of the

7:57

first realizations that I made when diving into the

7:59

research is how so

8:01

many of us try and sort of

8:03

like head, go headlong into, I wanna

8:05

be happy, like give me the things

8:07

to do to be happy. And yet

8:10

it seems like increasingly the research shows

8:12

that, you know, happiness actually, the direct

8:14

pursuit of happiness often leads us to

8:16

be less happy rather than happier. One

8:19

of those interesting paradoxes, isn't it? I

8:23

think you've said it so beautifully. And

8:26

I think for me, in

8:28

my case, I felt like my direct

8:30

aim at happiness, like what you're describing

8:32

was, it was all external

8:34

stuff. It was all these things that I thought

8:37

would then lead to happiness. It wasn't pursuing

8:39

them for the sake of pursuing those things.

8:41

It was only for the result that I

8:43

believe would ensue. And I think

8:46

that unfortunately, we have all this conditioning happening

8:48

in our lives that leads us to believe

8:50

that those things will make us happy. And

8:53

I suppose I want to invite us

8:56

to question those narratives a little bit

8:58

more and reconsider what it is that

9:00

matters most. Yeah, and I want to dive into

9:02

this because you kind of laid this out as what you call

9:04

the happiness myth. But before we

9:06

get there, you know, the word happiness alone is

9:09

interesting. And I feel like it's also a little

9:11

bit loaded and probably more than

9:13

a bit confusing because if you ask 10

9:15

different people, like what is happiness?

9:17

You'll probably get 10 different answers. So when

9:20

we're talking about happiness for the purpose of

9:22

this conversation, what are we actually talking about?

9:25

Such a good question. I think that the

9:28

type of happiness that I

9:30

think we should be talking about, if you agree, you

9:32

have to tell me if you agree with this definition,

9:34

is a more lasting

9:36

state, probably something more similar to

9:38

contentment, but also encompassing states of

9:41

joy and purpose and meaning. I

9:44

think if you think about happiness

9:46

as a short-term pleasure-based emotion, that

9:49

is gonna lead you astray. And

9:51

so I want it to be a broader,

9:54

I think more holistic understanding of what that

9:56

word might mean. Yeah. Are

9:59

you familiar? with Arthur Brooks,

10:02

he coined the phrase happiness, to

10:05

sort of denote the fact that there's no there there, that

10:07

this is more just a moving toward, and

10:11

also it's not something where

10:14

you check off the happy box and I'm good. I

10:16

love that. So take me into

10:18

the notion of, and you were referencing it

10:21

in the context of your own life, if

10:23

so many of us pursue

10:25

happiness from the outside in, we think

10:27

it exists out there. Take

10:30

me deeper into the ideas behind this. I

10:33

think that from the time that we're born,

10:35

we develop this idea about

10:37

how the world works and we

10:40

use all the information that we receive

10:42

from our caregivers or from

10:45

the way, the experiences that we have,

10:47

the messages that we get in the media

10:49

and from our schools and from all sorts

10:51

of culture. And then we build this mental

10:53

framework about how we should live our lives.

10:55

And what I have

10:58

essentially tried to argue with my work is

11:01

that within that set of beliefs,

11:03

there are three core beliefs that matter

11:05

most that end up having this disproportionate

11:07

impact upon your pursuit of happiness. And

11:10

the beliefs are about who you are as

11:12

a person, about what you should do and

11:14

how you're related to other people. And

11:17

I believe that the

11:20

messages that we have internalized about

11:23

the answers to those three questions are

11:25

ultimately convincing us to pursue the wrong things,

11:27

even though we think we're pursuing the right

11:30

things. We think that we're moving to a

11:32

point about happiness. We think that we're moving

11:34

towards happiness, but we're not. And then unfortunately,

11:36

you have to go through all that pain,

11:38

you get to the end, doesn't work, and

11:41

then you have to start all over again.

11:43

And you've invested all this time and it

11:45

becomes a very difficult cycle to break for

11:47

people. Yeah, and I think we probably all felt

11:49

that. Maybe as an example, one of the things

11:51

you talk about and the sort of like the

11:54

mythology of it is the notion of happiness

11:56

based on material success, accumulation

11:58

of stuff, things. status.

12:01

And that is such a common

12:03

part of what we're told, like we're taught

12:05

from the earliest days that when you get

12:08

X, you will feel Y. That's not the

12:10

case. I have so many memories.

12:12

If I really think about it, I

12:14

think, oh, man, my life is gonna be so much

12:16

easier if I get this new computer to do my

12:18

work on. And I get the computer and I'm happy

12:20

for what, like an hour. I feel

12:23

the sense of relief that I expected. But to

12:25

your point, how many commercials have

12:27

you watched that promise, eternal happiness, when you

12:29

buy that thing? Countless. What

12:32

does the research actually tell us about

12:34

the relationship between happiness and the achievement

12:36

of or the accumulation of things, the

12:39

acquisition of stuff or stuff? Yeah, it's

12:41

a negative relationship. So the more that

12:43

you value getting all that

12:45

stuff, and the more materialistic you are, the

12:48

less likely that you are to be happy.

12:50

And the more challenges that you're likely going

12:52

to have with your mental health. And unfortunately,

12:55

these messages, they're very prevalent in

12:57

young people. So we are exposed

12:59

to these ideas from a very

13:01

early age. And some interesting research

13:03

has also found that if you

13:06

grow up in a less privileged

13:08

background economically, then those messages hit

13:10

even harder for you. And it

13:12

becomes an even more difficult belief

13:14

to overcome. And so I often

13:17

say that if you have placed your faith in

13:19

happiness and stuff in the past, it's not your

13:22

fault. You're just a product of

13:24

our environment. And we can start to unwind

13:26

that with awareness and time, but it

13:28

goes deep. It's one of those ones.

13:30

Yeah, I would imagine. And I

13:33

wonder if there was

13:35

a time where a lot of those

13:37

messages were coming through, quote, mainstream media

13:39

or old media, but now, social

13:42

media, it's literally coming from everywhere.

13:44

It's almost impossible to

13:46

not get hit by. And I'm not

13:48

a Luddite. I think there's some great

13:50

advantages to social media. It flattens the

13:52

world and connects us. But it

13:54

does seem like a lot of research is starting to show

13:56

that there are real

13:58

problems. And Part of it,

14:00

I think everyone's trying to figure out what's really

14:03

happening here. But I wonder how much is what

14:05

you're talking about is it just sets these expectations

14:07

that you will feel better when

14:09

you get or accumulate or have this

14:12

thing in your life because you see all these people

14:14

having it and you're like, oh, they look awesome. Yeah,

14:16

they look really happy, right? But

14:18

that's just a fiction. It's like the story

14:21

they're telling in order to get likes and

14:23

all these other things. Yeah, it's so

14:25

painful, isn't it? Because sometimes I just think

14:27

about social media, the best way to think

14:29

about it is everyone's just

14:31

pretending. If you have

14:33

that perspective in your mind of

14:36

if you just assume that nothing is

14:38

real and everyone is showing a front,

14:41

so to speak, then you can

14:43

start to separate yourself a little bit from it.

14:45

Because it is really hard, right? If you're

14:48

feeling unhappy with your life or dissatisfied

14:50

or lonely and then you open

14:53

your phone and you see all these people

14:55

who seem to have everything and living

14:57

these beautiful, joyful lives, it's very hard

14:59

not to compare yourself to that and

15:01

to feel inadequate in so many ways.

15:04

Yeah, and to believe that what they have is

15:06

the key. Yeah, exactly. That's going to make me feel

15:08

better. Beyond the fact that it's fake, then

15:12

it just breeds

15:15

intensity into the lie. Speaking

15:18

of lies, you tease out what you

15:20

describe as these three different lies. Let's

15:23

walk through them. Lie number one, you're

15:25

not enough. Yeah, when

15:28

I started doing this work publicly,

15:30

which was about, I guess, almost

15:32

five years ago, I

15:34

thought I was the only one who didn't think I was good

15:37

enough. I thought it was

15:39

just all me and it was my

15:41

problem. And then I started doing

15:43

this thing with the community that I facilitate

15:45

on Instagram and I would ask people, what's

15:47

something that's feeling hard right now or what

15:49

are you struggling with? And

15:52

every single time, I would say about

15:54

half the responses all said the same thing. I

15:56

don't feel like I'm good enough. And I started

15:58

to realize that it's not. A new

16:00

problem. It's a We problem. We

16:02

are all struggling with these feelings

16:04

that were not enough and so

16:06

many ways and. Your

16:09

plants social media to be a prime

16:11

breeding grounds at belief and providing you

16:13

with all this evidence presumably to show

16:15

you why you're not good enough and.

16:18

Unfortunately, it seems to be this core

16:20

wounds that so many of us carry

16:22

around. I'm

16:25

curious. He. Says you had

16:27

that feeling like for so long time.

16:30

When your dealings your master's degree

16:32

in applied psychology surrounded by like

16:34

nearly every weekend as and when

16:36

you go there these brilliant researchers

16:39

and professors were talking metal this

16:41

research but you're also the tell

16:43

her to people who are smart

16:45

to are striving who like want

16:48

something in that environment really are

16:50

being taught about all these different

16:52

things. Did you have the feeling

16:54

of like. I'm. Not up to

16:56

this lake or not and not in this context

16:59

in that room in that setting. I

17:01

definitely did. Before going into it I was

17:03

so scared walking into that you know the

17:05

first room where you gather as a class.

17:07

Oh so nervous. I remember going for a

17:09

walk around the campus to try and psych

17:11

myself up and then looking around it. you

17:13

know Ten has such a gorgeous campus and

17:15

looking at of the buildings and think it's

17:17

this is a mistake for city state and

17:19

papers from. The

17:22

program the such a great shot at making

17:24

people feel welcome. So it is. It's fade

17:26

after will allow that. Have course I felt

17:29

who am I to be here. With all

17:31

these people are why should I think that

17:33

I deserve any of this and I'm probably

17:35

going to be the worst student and you

17:37

know has nothing to. Contribute And oh that's

17:40

horrible things that we say to ourselves.

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21:13

Prolon. This

21:17

is sort of a broad question, and maybe just

21:19

too individual, but I'm curious just what your take

21:21

is. Like, where does that come from? Because

21:23

it is such, I don't want

21:26

to say universal experience, maybe not every single

21:28

person experiences, but it is so common. You

21:30

know, this feeling of not enough-ness.

21:33

Do you have a take on where it comes from, what it's

21:35

about? Yeah, I argue that these

21:37

beliefs come from the values

21:40

and forces of our society, and

21:42

specifically these forces that shape so

21:44

many of our values and our

21:47

systems, including, you know, individualism, capitalism,

21:49

and domination. And specifically,

21:51

this feeling of not

21:53

enough while it's exacerbated by the

21:55

other two, I think it's really rooted

21:57

in these ideas of domination. that

22:00

some people are better than others. And

22:02

that your self worth

22:04

as a person is determined in

22:07

comparison with another. For example, like

22:09

going back to our social media

22:11

example, if I'm having a

22:13

good day, let's say, and then I

22:15

open Instagram, and I see a friend

22:17

of mine who's just won a prestigious

22:19

award or something amazing happening for her.

22:22

If my self worth is based

22:24

upon my comparison to her, then

22:26

I might feel like deep

22:28

sense of, Oh, wow, I'm not good enough.

22:30

I'm behind. There's something wrong with me. And

22:32

previously, up until that point, I was having

22:35

a great day, there wasn't anything going wrong

22:37

in my day. But because my self worth

22:39

is unstable, and it's founded on this form

22:41

of comparison. Ultimately, what happens

22:43

is that ending up fluctuating based upon

22:46

who you are and what you're talking

22:48

to and how successful you are and

22:50

what you achieve. And that

22:53

in turn creates even more instability where you

22:55

want to go out and prove how good

22:57

you are through different activities. Ultimately, you get

22:59

locked in this cycle of never

23:02

feeling enough and striving to show how good

23:04

you are, which then contributes to other people

23:06

feeling not enough. And so it's

23:09

the system I think we've gotten locked

23:11

into. And it's also then

23:15

exacerbated by many of the forces that

23:17

we and the kind of institutions and

23:20

things that we participate in, which have

23:22

a very narrow understanding

23:24

of what it means to be good

23:26

enough, and what it means

23:28

to be worthy as a person.

23:30

And so if you don't measure up to

23:32

those levels, then you're constantly getting poked all

23:34

the ways that you need to be better.

23:38

So part of it then also is about the

23:41

metrics that we that we choose to use

23:43

is really measure our enoughness to a certain

23:45

extent, like we're looking at all these things

23:48

that almost can't help but

23:50

make us feel bad. Exactly.

23:52

That sounds fantastic. Yeah, it's

23:54

great. Great news. I'm like the happiest

23:56

person to come on this podcast bringing

23:58

all the positive news. Yeah, bridge

24:00

one gap here for me there because

24:03

you use the word domination, need for

24:05

domination. Walk me into how

24:07

that contributes to this feeling. If

24:11

we live in a world that says

24:13

some people are better than others and

24:16

that all lives are not

24:18

equal and there are specific

24:20

types of people who are valued, there are

24:22

specific activities that are valued and

24:24

then we have all of these systems that

24:26

then in turn implement

24:29

rewards or punishments in order to

24:31

force those and coerce that kind

24:33

of behavior, then ultimately

24:36

it becomes in everybody's self-interest to conform

24:39

to that system and to participate in

24:41

it. And that

24:44

ability to step

24:46

outside of that and to say, I'm

24:49

not basing who I am on anyone

24:52

else and I'm not judging myself

24:54

in comparison to anybody else, that

24:56

would be removing yourself from a

24:58

system of domination and instead saying

25:00

I'm operating from a system

25:02

of collaboration or of compassion or

25:04

of equality. And those

25:08

shifts that we can make are often

25:10

just really small. It can start with

25:12

just refusing to judge

25:14

yourself based upon somebody else's actions who

25:17

really has nothing to do with you.

25:19

My friend's award is all about her and

25:21

her work and all of the great things that she

25:23

has strived so much to do and

25:25

it doesn't have to be a reflection on me,

25:27

it's only that because I've been conditioned into thinking

25:29

that it should be that way and I can

25:31

start to break that cycle and that pattern

25:33

through my choices and my actions. Yeah,

25:36

as you're describing that, I think

25:38

so many people who came up in the world

25:40

of business who are a little bit further into

25:42

their careers also, they came up

25:45

in an ethos where whether it was stated or

25:47

not, the ethos was kill or be killed. And

25:50

that was literally taught as a

25:53

model in grad schools when

25:56

that is the way that you step into the

25:58

world of work and then it's... gonna

26:00

ripple out into every other part of work.

26:02

It's kind of what you're talking about here,

26:04

that sense of dominate or be dominated, right?

26:07

Yeah. That's how we succeed.

26:09

And then that's gonna give us that magical

26:12

capital H happiness that we seek. And

26:14

yet so many people, even when they quote win, they're

26:17

not feeling what they want to feel. No, no,

26:19

because how can, really, how can you

26:21

experience real happiness through domination? How

26:23

can you expect that? It's never

26:25

going to help you to

26:28

truly feel good because as we all

26:30

know, truly feeling good is far more

26:32

likely to be found in helping people

26:34

and connecting and being supportive and caring

26:37

and kindness. And to your

26:39

point about that mantra that you're taught, right, like

26:41

it still happens. I think about, I started my

26:43

career in management consulting and the big fear I

26:45

had was like up or out. If

26:48

you're not performing, then you don't get to stay.

26:50

And it's tamer than killer be killed

26:52

for sure, but it still has the same kind of

26:54

message. Yeah, I mean, and that even

26:57

exists in academia. I mean, the mantra there

26:59

is publish or perish. On

27:01

the surface doesn't sound like killer be killed

27:03

or dominate or be dominated, but like if

27:05

the mindset is, okay, there's scarcity here, there

27:07

are only a certain amount of articles that

27:09

can be accepted by a certain number of

27:11

journals every year. And if I don't have

27:13

mine accepted, that puts my

27:15

entire career and my tenure in jeopardy.

27:18

So I have got to somehow basically like,

27:20

I've got to beat all the other people.

27:23

Like that's the only way that I get what I

27:25

want, which is just fascinating. I

27:27

would imagine that if you looked at almost any domain,

27:30

you could see this culture in some way

27:32

woven through it. Does that make sense? Yes,

27:35

I think you've nailed it. It's the

27:37

perfect way of describing it. And work is

27:39

certainly the best lens for us to start

27:41

to notice its presence in that way, right?

27:43

Because it's almost like, to your point, domination

27:46

is coded into the workplace in many ways,

27:48

right? You get promoted, you get into a

27:50

leadership position. And in many ways, that gives

27:52

you the right to tell

27:54

other people what to do and to assert

27:56

control over them. And that's what, you know,

27:59

think about it. to work like yours

28:01

and many others were shifting towards a

28:03

better way of working and to creating

28:06

collaborative relationships at work. But I

28:09

think that it's so deeply coded into

28:12

the way that we see the world and even

28:14

taking a step back from it can be very

28:16

disorienting at the beginning. Yeah, I

28:18

would imagine in the world of work,

28:20

it's like the level of wholesale change

28:23

that has to happen within the culture

28:25

of an organization. It's like if it's

28:27

a bigger, older organization, it's just knocking

28:30

your head up against a really big

28:32

wall. Yeah. I would imagine with your

28:34

working like in management consulting, it's like,

28:36

okay, I'm dropping into a

28:38

big organization and like to try and

28:40

even steer that ship, you

28:42

know, a fraction of one degree this direction

28:45

or another, it's just it takes mass amount

28:47

of effort. It really does. So

28:49

the second lie is and we've kind of talked about

28:51

a little bit, but it's this notion of you'll be

28:54

happy when but we talked about

28:56

in the context of accumulation or

28:58

achievement. Is there something else or

29:00

other things that might follow that dot, dot,

29:02

dot as well? Yeah. And it's funny,

29:04

you already nailed it really when you

29:06

talked about the, you know, like the

29:08

currency of how we value

29:10

ourselves because in our world achievement is

29:12

the currency of how we value ourselves.

29:15

So achievement might be that acquisition of

29:17

material goods, but it could also be

29:20

the pursuit of goals or a power,

29:22

fame, popularity, anything that exists

29:24

outside of you or that is acquired

29:26

for the purposes of giving you something

29:29

other than what it is. So for

29:31

example, if you're striving to

29:34

get promoted, because you think it will

29:36

lead to happiness versus you're striving

29:38

to get promoted because you really want to

29:40

learn and you want to become a leader

29:43

and that feels really fulfilling for you. Yeah.

29:45

I mean, so part of it is about

29:47

the intention of that underlies the striving. So

29:49

you're not saying that striving in and of

29:51

itself is bad. No, but

29:53

it's about like, what is driving this driving?

29:56

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. You

29:58

need to copyright that. That's so good. Um, I

30:00

think that's spot on. We're

30:04

driven to do stuff. We're action-oriented

30:06

creatures. We can't get rid of

30:08

that. I've been studying, for example,

30:10

Buddhism for a while. I was

30:12

very attracted to

30:16

almost like a monastic view

30:18

of happiness at the beginning

30:20

in terms of contentment in

30:23

spite of everything. I thought

30:26

there was so much to admire in that, obviously,

30:29

so much to admire in that way of

30:31

life and that perspective. The

30:33

more that I thought about it, the more I realized

30:35

that it's not very practical.

30:38

First of all, of course. Then second, for

30:41

most of us, it denies that truth of our nature,

30:43

which is like we want to make things. We want

30:46

to do stuff. We want to build things. We want

30:48

to create experiences that have never

30:50

existed before. There's a profound satisfaction and

30:52

fulfillment in that. How do we take

30:55

that striving energy and use it

30:57

for good and for positive

30:59

outcomes rather than having it be

31:02

funneled on autopilot towards these things that we

31:04

think will make us happy but don't actually? I

31:08

know so many folks who have at some

31:10

point considered or even said

31:12

yes to the monastic life and

31:14

vows and then come back to certainly be

31:17

quote, householder of life because

31:19

they're like, you know what? I believe

31:21

deeply in the ideas, philosophy, but

31:24

I really feel like my place is in

31:27

the world and there's human impulses that I

31:29

have that I don't

31:31

think are bad. They just need to be

31:34

properly held and directed. I

31:36

love that. I remember reading something back

31:39

in the day that really

31:41

changed my perspective on this as well, which was

31:44

the Dalai Lama, I believe, said

31:46

that there's more spiritual growth in

31:49

one parent's night of

31:51

nursing a sick child than there is in

31:53

a year of meditation practice.

31:56

I was so struck by that because

31:58

I had attached

32:01

all these mental ideas about, oh,

32:03

this is the right way to do

32:05

things, or it's the most worthy

32:08

way of doing things, right? It's treating it in

32:10

many ways like an accomplishment, of course, and realizing

32:14

that actually you can have

32:16

this profound personal and spiritual and

32:18

professional growth simply by the way that you live

32:20

your life and show up for the people in

32:22

it. And that's where a lot of the goodness

32:24

or most of the goodness is for many of

32:26

us. So agree with that. And

32:28

as somebody who's actually had both experiences

32:30

like the kid overnight and meditating for

32:32

a year and studying, I think

32:35

I agree with that. Wow, that's so cool.

32:37

You'll learn a lot really, really fast in

32:40

like an eight-hour window overnight when yeah, everything's

32:42

on the line. The

32:44

third element is this notion.

32:46

This ties back to a certain extent. One of the

32:48

things that you reference, this sort of notion of individualism,

32:51

is this notion that you're on your own.

32:54

Yeah, is one of the other lies that you kind

32:56

of say like, mm-mm. You're not

32:58

separate. That's what, this is

33:00

the lie that I think is most

33:02

for me the hardest one to spot and

33:04

the hardest to divest myself from as well

33:06

in many ways because the idea

33:10

that we are separate from one another is

33:13

coded into us from the very beginning.

33:15

Like there's Stephanie, Stephanie is in school, Stephanie

33:17

is doing this and that and the

33:19

other and we have so much of

33:21

this attachment to the self and what

33:23

has fascinated me about some of the

33:25

emerging research in this area is that

33:28

you really can't have a self without

33:30

other selves. Like there's no way to

33:32

be truly separate from people and even

33:36

thinking about people living a monastic

33:38

life. They're not separate either. They're

33:40

reliant upon other people and they

33:42

are engaged in relationships with them

33:44

even if they look very different

33:46

and the more that

33:48

we can realize just how connected we are,

33:50

the more that we're motivated to invest in

33:53

those relationships that we have and that is

33:55

the source of our truest well-being.

33:58

Hmm. I'm nodding a lot. And

34:00

yet at the same time, as with so

34:02

many of the other things that we've been talking about, like so

34:05

much of just culture tells us, like

34:07

it's based around this like myth of,

34:10

you know, quote, rugged individualism. You

34:12

quote, you shouldn't be dependent on others.

34:15

That's not happiness. That's weakness. And whether

34:17

it's said overtly or whether it's just

34:19

like, you know, the undercurrent of what

34:22

you observe as a kid or wherever

34:24

it will be. Whereas,

34:26

you know, it's, it's so

34:28

baked into us that

34:31

to break from the notion that,

34:33

you know, to need

34:35

somebody else to be like open

34:37

and vulnerable to and with somebody

34:40

else is not weakness. It's

34:42

for a lot of people, it's no easy thing. No,

34:45

it's not actually just found a

34:47

study about this that showed that

34:50

by the age of seven kids are already

34:52

reluctant to ask for help because they know

34:54

it will make them look weak. Wow.

34:58

I just broke my heart a little bit when I read

35:00

that. And so I'm thinking,

35:02

God, like, what about us 27, 37, 47 year

35:04

olds, like all of those years on top of it. We

35:09

have a lot of unlearning to do on

35:11

that front. Yeah. Where

35:13

do we start with that unlearning on, especially

35:15

in the context of that? I

35:18

think that the first step

35:20

that I think can make a really

35:22

big difference is starting to acknowledge

35:26

how connected you are to others and in

35:28

any way that you can. So whether that's

35:30

looking for the things

35:33

that you share with another person or

35:35

the ways in which you see yourself

35:37

in them or looking for their, you

35:39

know, like their goodness and all of

35:41

the wonderful qualities within them. And

35:44

then when you feel connected to them,

35:46

think about how they have contributed to

35:48

your life and how you have contributed

35:50

to theirs. Like imagining what does this,

35:53

if we imagine, you know, these

35:55

two people and then the space

35:57

between them and all that they have given and

35:59

received. in that space, bringing

36:02

it to mind and reflecting on the

36:04

fact that this relationship is one of

36:06

entire mutual need and care that there

36:09

has been nothing in that relationship that

36:11

wasn't based upon that in one way

36:13

or another. And then reflecting

36:15

on the fact that it's perfectly

36:17

human to continue that relationship and whether

36:20

that means that you have the capacity

36:22

today to offer help to them or

36:24

whether today is a day where you

36:27

need some help, that's what the flow

36:29

of connectedness should be all about. And

36:31

the more that we can start

36:34

to practice in small ways,

36:36

asking for help, showing others that it's

36:38

okay to ask for help, the

36:40

easier it becomes also to continue giving and to

36:42

contribute in the ways that we want to as

36:44

well. And I think that this

36:47

mantra I have is we're here to

36:49

help each other. That's what we're here

36:51

for. It's the point. And if I

36:53

buy into that idea, then that means

36:55

that I can't just be the only

36:57

one helping. I also have to be

36:59

willing to receive from others because if

37:01

not, I'm cutting them off from participating

37:03

in this flow. And so in many

37:05

ways, I argue that asking for help

37:07

can be a very selfless act because

37:10

it allows somebody else to experience happiness.

37:13

No, that makes a lot of sense. It's like

37:15

Romduss is like, sort of like famous

37:17

quote in the end, we're all just walking each other home. But

37:21

I think what you're also teasing out here is

37:23

if this lands with you, distinction

37:25

between dependence and interdependence. When

37:28

you're like one being sort of like one sided

37:31

and the other really acknowledging the mutuality of

37:33

it. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

37:35

I think that interdependence is the ideal of

37:38

what's possible

37:41

in many ways, right? Like your

37:43

individuality and service of somebody

37:45

else, somebody else's well being or the

37:48

greater good, whatever it is. And at

37:50

the same time, it's also okay to

37:52

be dependent. Sometimes, you know, it's

37:54

okay to really need

37:56

other people and to feel like I'm

37:59

not in a place right now where I can contribute

38:02

and give in the ways that I wish

38:04

I could, but I'm going through

38:07

something really hard or I'm in need and

38:09

this is just where I'm at right now. You

38:13

can also know that in those moments that there

38:15

will come a time where you will be able

38:17

to do the same for another person. You will

38:19

be able to contribute to their lives in some

38:21

way and perhaps be there for

38:24

someone who truly needs you. And ultimately,

38:26

I think that ends up

38:28

contributing to interdependence in the long run. It's

38:30

more of taking a step back

38:33

and knowing that moments of dependence are

38:35

okay as long as we're situated in

38:37

this broader interdependent context where people are

38:39

participating in that ecosystem. Yeah, I

38:41

mean that makes a lot of sense to me. And

38:43

even the notion that maybe it's not that person who

38:45

helped you, but a year later it's

38:47

going to be some other stranger. But

38:50

if you say yes to what you were saying

38:52

before, which is that we're kind of like all

38:54

in this together or like a sea of humanity,

38:57

it's all going to come around in one way

38:59

or another. But I

39:01

wonder also if people sometimes resist

39:03

this idea because there's also a bit

39:06

of a, in addition to sort

39:08

of like the dominance oriented or the

39:10

killer-by-killer oriented things, I feel

39:12

like so many of us were brought up

39:14

with this like scorekeeping tendency. Yeah. You

39:16

know, it's kind of like, okay, so I really am in

39:18

need and I really need somebody to help me out right

39:21

now. But if I really

39:23

need to help and I take everything they have to

39:25

give, at some point, there's

39:27

a deficit like on the books now, and

39:29

I'm going to have to pay back that

39:31

same amount because at some point

39:33

we need to balance the books, right? And

39:35

that people will say no because

39:38

they don't want the sense of obligation

39:40

that's been sort of drilled into them

39:42

has to happen down the road rather

39:44

than saying maybe that entire

39:47

assumption is wrong. Yeah.

39:49

Wow. So profound. I

39:51

agree more with you. And it's

39:54

tragic how people hold

39:56

themselves back when they really need

39:58

help from asking for a message. in

40:00

that worry that maybe if they cash in their

40:02

chips now, they won't be able to use them

40:05

in the future. Like how devastating is that? That

40:07

that's the world that we live

40:09

in and that we feel that way. I

40:11

would like to see that fixed. That would be

40:14

amazing. Yeah, I feel

40:16

like in tons of

40:18

just profound mass crisis and

40:21

trauma that we often drop in

40:24

to that for like a hot minute. I

40:26

mean, I was in New York and like

40:28

living there during 9-11, it's New York for

40:30

the first part of the pandemic. And

40:32

there was this sense of what

40:35

can I do? Like I'm not keeping score. Like

40:37

I'm in pain, someone around me that I know

40:39

is in pain. I just need

40:41

something to do. I need some way to help.

40:43

And if somebody can figure out a way to

40:45

help me, like I'm down with that. But I

40:47

feel like when we move

40:49

away from the window of the immediate trauma

40:52

or crisis, like that ethos fades.

40:54

I'm wondering whether you see that also.

40:57

Yeah, it's been documented as well in

40:59

studies. Like there was this body of

41:01

work I read about 9-11 actually and

41:04

how essentially the psychologist

41:06

went back and interviewed people

41:09

who were volunteering on the

41:11

ground. And basically what they

41:13

all said was I ran

41:15

there to help. I

41:17

ran toward Ground Zero because all I could think

41:20

about was the people who were suffering and I

41:22

had to do something about it. And I didn't

41:24

even think about it. It was the most instinctive.

41:26

And I believe that

41:28

this comes from that lack

41:31

of separation that we're talking

41:33

about. So if you feel like if

41:35

I'm not connected to you, then

41:37

your problems are yours. It's not my problem, right? I

41:39

don't have to deal with them. But if I am

41:42

connected to you, then they belong to me as well.

41:44

So I have a responsibility

41:46

and a duty and a care to

41:48

be there for you and to support

41:50

you. So when you're separate, not

41:53

only does it hurt you in

41:55

the short term in that way, but it also

41:58

ends up cutting you off. from

42:00

the source of joy of your relationships

42:02

of giving and receiving. You

42:04

know, I think that people, I

42:06

respect the need to be mindful about

42:09

the exposure we have to traumatic events

42:11

that are happening in the news and

42:13

to be mindful of what

42:15

we consume and how we do it. But

42:17

the more that we say, you know, oh, that's not

42:19

my problem, it's too much for me

42:22

to handle, all that kind of stuff, the more

42:24

we're cutting ourselves off from people who are suffering

42:26

who need us and who we might very well

42:28

be able to help, we have

42:30

to start with that connection in order to

42:32

be willing to jump in. And those moments

42:34

of trauma that you're talking about, like the

42:37

pandemic, we're all in this together, let's go

42:39

out on our balconies and cheer for the

42:41

healthcare workers. Like that's a moment of profound

42:43

connection where the separation goes away. And so

42:45

we become motivated to help. And

42:48

we'll be right back after a word from our

42:50

sponsors. Hi,

42:55

this is Janice Torres from Yoquiero Dineiro.

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45:44

of what we're talking about here, and you

45:46

write about this beautifully, is empathy

45:48

and compassion. Take

45:51

me a little bit deeper into what

45:53

these concepts are and how these may

45:56

be more of the true or core

45:58

ingredients of genuine. and more

46:00

lasting happiness. Yeah.

46:03

When we're connected, when we're no longer separate

46:05

and I'm attuned to you,

46:07

then I can experience empathy. So feeling

46:09

with you, feeling your emotions like they're

46:12

my own or your pain like it's

46:14

my own. And then we

46:16

can take the next step, which

46:18

I think is the most important one, which

46:20

is shifting into compassion, which is essentially

46:23

giving love to the person who

46:25

is suffering and giving of yourself

46:27

in the ways that they might

46:29

need. And when

46:32

you're in a state of compassion, you

46:34

can bear many challenges

46:36

and stresses. You can face

46:38

traumas and difficulties. You can do

46:41

incredible things and acts of service

46:43

because you actually have this source

46:45

of positive emotion and meaning that's driving you

46:47

forward. And you don't have access to that

46:49

when you're just at the empathy level. So

46:52

if you're really sad and we're connected, then I

46:55

might end up feeling really sad too because of

46:57

that. And then that might make it hard for

46:59

me to help you. Right? Like

47:02

if you've, I'm sure we've all had this experience where

47:04

like you're crying and then you tell someone

47:06

what's wrong and they say they get

47:08

upset about it and then you have to comfort them and

47:11

be like, how did this happen? How did we get

47:13

into this spot? And that's because empathy is really powerful.

47:16

So the more that we can shift

47:18

from that place of connectedness into compassion and

47:21

helping and expressing love in the ways that

47:23

we can, the more joy that we get

47:25

to experience and the more motivation and power

47:27

and energy that we have to keep doing

47:29

it. How

47:31

do we resource ourselves in a way

47:34

that allows us to make

47:36

that move from empathy to

47:38

compassion? Because you know, it takes a certain

47:40

almost like activation energy to go

47:43

from feeling what another person feels to saying,

47:45

I'm capable of not just that I want to

47:47

do something about it, but I'm capable of doing

47:50

something about it and not feeling similarly

47:52

locked down or sad

47:54

or paralyzed. And some

47:56

people may be just more organically able to

47:59

flip that switch. But I

48:01

would imagine others, you know, like they're feeling like, how

48:03

do I bridge that gap? I

48:05

want to do something. But I'm concerned about sort of

48:07

like dropping into the same abyss

48:10

as this other person. And

48:12

also, I'm concerned about my own well-being

48:15

in giving energy to this right

48:17

now. Your second point, I

48:19

think, is the key issue that

48:22

prevents us from doing that because, yes,

48:24

when you're in that state of empathy, it can

48:26

be draining. But when you're in the state of

48:29

compassion, you're benefiting. So giving doesn't actually end up

48:31

depleting you when you're coming from that state. It

48:33

ends up fulfilling you. So to your

48:35

first point, we have to figure out how to

48:37

make that shift as often as we can so

48:39

that we can resource ourselves appropriately. And

48:43

from a very practical perspective, I think

48:45

that something that holds us back is

48:47

not knowing how to help when people

48:49

are having a hard time. Like not

48:52

knowing, you know, like you

48:54

have a crying person in front of you who's just lost

48:57

their job or been broken up with, like, what

48:59

do you do in that moment? No

49:01

one ever teaches us how to be there

49:03

in those ways that might be supportive. And

49:06

then, of course, every person is different and

49:08

has different needs. So it's a

49:11

little bit like helping is

49:13

a whole other additional skill set

49:15

that we have to develop in

49:17

order to reap those benefits that

49:19

we're talking about. Yeah. On

49:22

the one hand, as you're saying that, I'm thinking,

49:24

well, maybe a good thing for us

49:26

to all do is like literally ask the other person,

49:28

what do you most need right now? But then on

49:30

the other hand, pardon me, is saying, is

49:33

there a potential for that question alone to actually add

49:35

to their burden? So

49:37

hard. Complicated. It's really

49:40

complicated. I made this tool for the new

49:42

happy, which is basically like a big list

49:44

of needs. And the idea is that if

49:46

you're having a hard time, you can sit

49:48

with somebody you love and, you know, like

49:51

check off the things that you think would

49:53

make you feel better and like start to

49:55

build that vocabulary a little bit because

49:57

it is really hard. Like sometimes I think about my

49:59

own. needs and you know like I think

50:01

about my partner if I'm having

50:04

a hard day sometimes I

50:06

want him to know what to do right

50:08

it's kind of unfair it's my responsibility I

50:10

have to learn how to name my needs

50:12

and the things that I want and

50:15

so I think that one of the best

50:17

ways we can exist in interdependence with one

50:19

another is that practice of claiming

50:22

I would like this or I

50:24

need this right now and again it sort of

50:26

ties back to what you mentioned about how hard

50:28

it is to ask for help it's barrier getting

50:30

in the way yeah it's

50:32

one thing I guess to see clearly enough to

50:34

really understand what's going on another thing to even

50:37

then know what to do and then a third thing to

50:40

enact on it yeah um

50:43

yeah weird complicated little yeah I

50:46

love the way you say that you know one of

50:48

the other things that you talk about is this notion

50:51

of understanding or uncovering like

50:53

like why you matter how you

50:55

matter take me a little deeper

50:57

into this yeah so

51:00

I think that everyone wants to know

51:02

that they're special right and that they

51:04

have something within them that

51:06

matters and that can be shared and

51:09

there's so many different ways to

51:11

approach this question of identifying who

51:13

you are and what unique capabilities

51:15

you have and I know you've

51:17

done such fantastic work in this

51:19

area the model that I've proposed

51:21

in this book is that every

51:24

person has three different types of gifts and

51:26

those gifts can be used to help other

51:28

people when you use them you experience joy

51:31

and then also you create happiness for other

51:33

people at the same time and so I

51:36

argue that there's your humanity

51:38

which is who you are as a person

51:40

that's what shows up in those helping moments

51:42

where you're with somebody you love and you

51:44

want to be there there's your wisdom what

51:46

you've learned from unique life that you've lived

51:48

that nobody else will ever have access to and

51:50

then there's your talent which is all the great

51:53

things you know how to do or you want

51:55

to learn how to do and the more that

51:57

you can identify those gifts you start

52:00

to share them with the world and make

52:02

the impact that only you can make because

52:04

no one else has your unique combination of

52:06

gifts to share. Do you feel

52:08

like at different points in our

52:10

lives, we might feel like we have more

52:12

or less access to one or more of

52:14

those three different gifts? Yeah,

52:16

I think that's a great question. I haven't thought

52:19

about it before, but yes, I do. I

52:21

think I

52:23

think luckily you develop most

52:25

of them with age, particularly

52:27

humanity and wisdom can grow

52:29

and grow and grow. Of course, you

52:32

can continue learning. Maybe your range

52:34

of talents become slightly

52:37

more limited as you get older, but

52:39

you can still always master new skills

52:41

and capabilities. I think that

52:45

aging presents us with

52:47

an opportunity to develop those gifts more and

52:49

more. Ultimately, I think

52:51

that they all do need that level of cultivation.

52:53

For the most part, there are

52:56

obviously masters and people who seem

52:58

to spring fully formed with their

53:00

talents and their gifts out of

53:02

there. I'm not one of them.

53:04

No, nor am I. Definitely not

53:06

one. I'm literally stumbling in someone's

53:08

face. Me too. Oh yeah, like

53:11

doing the messy work. That's me. I

53:13

think that you have to

53:16

put in the effort and the time

53:18

and anything. That's what pays off. I

53:21

do think that to your point, it might also

53:23

be dependent on the environment that you're in, the

53:26

support that you're getting, what's valued in the relationships

53:28

that you have. All of that can help to

53:30

bring it out. Yeah, it

53:33

does occur to me, and I'm

53:35

curious what you think about this, that I

53:37

wonder if many of us really

53:39

in the earlier stages of life, of those

53:42

three, like humanity, wisdom, and talent, we tend

53:44

to lead with talent. If there's a way

53:46

for us to help, where's

53:48

my scale? Where's my gut? Where's that unique thing

53:51

about me? Because it just seems

53:53

most on the surface and maybe most what

53:55

we've been recognized for. Maybe

53:57

we feel like we don't have the wisdom

54:00

yet to actually be able to offer that in

54:03

a meaningful way. Um, but I wonder

54:05

if the humanities side of

54:07

it is, which we all have

54:09

from the earliest days, like that's maybe like

54:11

not necessarily the most ignored, but like

54:14

least tapped in a way we,

54:16

maybe we don't recognize that it's there for

54:19

us to offer. I agree

54:21

with you completely. I think like some

54:23

people, there are some people who seem

54:26

to have a natural grasp on their

54:28

humanity gifts and are so loving and

54:30

kind and funny and you know,

54:33

just all of those wonderful human qualities and they

54:35

share it broadly. But yeah, I mean,

54:37

I didn't ever believe when I was

54:39

younger that your humanity could be a

54:42

gift. It felt like a liability. So,

54:45

um, the funny thing is though,

54:47

is that your humanity gifts are

54:49

the most reliable source of happiness

54:51

because they connect you to

54:54

other people and they allow you to

54:56

express all of your inner goodness. So

54:59

if we neglect those and often we're,

55:02

we're neglecting a really big force of

55:04

wellbeing and to your point, we'll often

55:06

put talent well ahead of it and

55:09

ignore all of the potential expressions of our

55:11

humanity gifts in thinking that, you know, again,

55:13

once I get there, I'll be happy and

55:15

then it'll all be worth it. Yeah.

55:18

And I would imagine this ties into what you were

55:20

sharing earlier about like one of those big lies, which

55:23

was like the sense of not enoughness. Like

55:25

if we feel like, you know, if we've been

55:27

maybe told at a young age

55:29

that like just on a human level,

55:31

like you're not enough, then

55:33

you're like, who am I to think

55:36

that even just who I am as a human being

55:38

is adequate to in any way, shape

55:40

or form, like share with another person.

55:43

Yeah. And like that could be good

55:45

enough. Like, you know, one example, um, I'm

55:47

curious to hear if, if, um,

55:49

this resonates with you is I

55:52

was always told I was too sensitive and,

55:54

um, overreacting to stuff and

55:56

I would cry too

55:59

often. became something that I was

56:01

really ashamed of when I was younger. And

56:03

especially when you're young and you don't have

56:05

the ability to regulate your emotions, it becomes

56:07

even more difficult. And I

56:10

never, ever once thought that my

56:12

sensitivity could ever be a gift. And

56:15

now I couldn't do any of the work I do

56:17

without it. It's probably one of the things that has

56:19

helped me the most. And all of

56:21

that time I spent beating myself up for something that's just

56:24

a part of who I am. I could

56:26

have been using it in ways that would have helped me

56:28

and helped others. Gosh, we should

56:30

just try and avoid that wherever possible.

56:33

Yeah. And I think that probably resonates.

56:35

It resonates with me. I'm sure it resonates with so

56:37

many people who are listening right now. Part

56:40

of it is there's so much conditioning.

56:42

That's part of what we've been talking about. That

56:46

so much of what we're talking

56:48

about here is it's an unwinding

56:50

process. And it's actually one of the words

56:52

you use, unwinding the old happy. So we

56:54

can basically set ourselves up to step into

56:57

the new happy. When

56:59

you think about if somebody's listening

57:01

to this and says, this makes so much sense to

57:04

me. And yes, it makes sense

57:06

that we need to unwind these things and

57:08

access empathy and compassion. And it's

57:10

the relationships that are really powerful and they

57:12

matter. And the notion

57:15

of wisdom and talent and humanity,

57:17

that all lands. And

57:20

maybe they're feeling okay, but there's this voice inside

57:22

of them that says, but I

57:24

could feel better. I could feel different. Where

57:27

do we start with that? Because I

57:29

think a lot of folks should probably be like, but

57:31

this feels a bit overwhelming to me. What

57:34

are the easy on-ramps here? Yeah. Yeah.

57:38

I think that one of the on-ramps

57:40

is the next time

57:42

that you're having a bad day or a tough

57:44

time, just go help somebody in some small way.

57:47

Try and show up using your humanity gifts. It's

57:49

free. It's simple. It takes five minutes

57:51

or less and it can make such a big

57:53

difference in your day. Really

57:55

calling a friend or reaching out to a family member

57:57

who's having a hard time or helping a stream. or

58:00

whatever it is that comes to mind. And

58:03

then when you're done, just notice

58:06

how you feel and if it's changed anything

58:08

within you, if you feel more connected to

58:10

yourself or to the other person and if

58:12

you have any joy or a sense of

58:14

purpose. The next is to

58:16

start thinking about those gifts that you

58:18

have and making a list of some

58:21

of them to be honest, thinking about, okay,

58:23

what have I learned? Everyone

58:26

has had a unique life and no matter

58:28

how old you are, you have been through

58:30

some stuff that has taught you something and

58:32

we just have to extract it from those

58:34

memories and those moments. So I often

58:37

counsel, think back to the things

58:39

that you've achieved in your life

58:41

that were meaningful for you or

58:43

the experiences that were painful for you

58:46

that you got through and overcame and

58:48

then write down what you learned

58:50

and what you'd like to do with that information

58:53

because oftentimes our purpose

58:55

is found in, hey, I went

58:57

through this hard time and now I want to

58:59

help other people going through that hard time or

59:01

I want to prevent it for them in some

59:03

way or help support them in navigating

59:06

it. And the other

59:08

bit is, again, like no matter

59:11

how young you are, there's always somebody younger

59:13

than you who wants to do what you've

59:15

done, who is excited and would be grateful

59:17

for your support and so figuring out how

59:19

to contribute your wisdom in those ways. And

59:22

then for your talents, think about

59:25

somebody who you look up to who

59:27

has a life that excites you, thinking

59:29

about someone who gets up every day

59:32

and they do something with their day and you think,

59:34

I want to do that with my day. And

59:36

then think about the talents that they have

59:38

and how you might start to develop them for

59:41

yourself and you do that by starting to practice

59:43

and get feedback and all that good stuff. But

59:46

with those three steps, you can really invest in

59:48

your talents and your wisdom and your humanity and

59:50

then start to offer them up to others in

59:52

a way that's not about overhauling

59:55

your whole life. It's just making a couple of

59:57

small changes as you go about it. resonates

1:00:00

so much and the notion that you know

1:00:02

even starting with the humanity side like literally

1:00:04

there's probably not a day that you boo

1:00:06

through where once you become open to it

1:00:08

once you sort of like set

1:00:11

yourself on skin like okay so how can

1:00:13

I bring my humanity gift to like to

1:00:15

someone something some moment like you're probably just

1:00:17

gonna start to see them all around the

1:00:20

place. Totally and it's like it's think

1:00:22

about them as moments for your happiness right

1:00:25

like here's a chance to feel happier what

1:00:27

a gift I'm so happy I can help.

1:00:30

Yeah feels like a good place for

1:00:32

us to come full circle as well so

1:00:34

in this container of Good Life Project if I

1:00:36

offer up the phrase to live a good life

1:00:38

what comes up? Helping people

1:00:41

in any way I can. Hmm thank

1:00:45

you. Thank you. Hey before you

1:00:48

leave if you love this episode say that

1:00:50

you'll also love the conversation we had with

1:00:53

Dan Lerner about the science of passion you'll

1:00:55

find a link to Dan's episode in the show notes.

1:00:58

This episode of Good Life Project

1:01:00

was produced by executive producers Lindsay

1:01:02

Fox and me Jonathan Fields editing

1:01:04

help by Alejandro Ramirez Christopher Carter

1:01:06

crafted our theme music and special

1:01:08

thanks to Shelley Dell for her

1:01:10

research on this episode and of

1:01:12

course if you haven't already done

1:01:14

so please go ahead and follow Good

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1:01:50

about what you've both discovered because

1:01:52

when podcasts become conversations and conversations

1:01:54

become action that's how we all

1:01:56

come alive together until next time

1:01:58

I'm Jonathan Fields I love signing

1:02:01

off together. You